Welcome Paddy

8/4/2019 Welcome Paddy

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Welcome Paddy!

Sorry for the rocky start, please don't let our occasional arguments scare you away.As an alcoholic, I can only speak for myself when I say I am not perfect. Far from it. Iconstantly drank. I was always so proud of not falling down, blacking out, oroccasionally upchucking. Alcohol ate at me from the inside out. It cost me my

gallbladder. If I had continued then my liver would have been next. I can fully relate to the wrong thinking and self destruction. That was my forte.Honesty, for me, is a good start. Don't be afraid to go to a meeting. We don't shootour wounded, LOL. Someone told a fellow that when he came back after a little moreresearch. Bad thing about killing thoughts and worries with thinking. For me, my problems onlyincreased. I finally quit running from them and stood up and faced them head on. When I walked through these doors I realized that I really did want to live. Funnything, all these years trying to kill myslf. Funny only in retrospect.

Great replies from some wise sober fellows, here. The best thing, for me, is I finallyfound some people who I could relate to. They have the same spiritual sickness as Ido. They gave me suggestions on how to live a better life. Only if I was willing to goto any lengths for sobriety. It is so worth it. Today I no longer have to rely on the facade and destructiveness of King Alcohol. Thanx to AA, my HP, whom I call God, and the Fellowship of AlcoholicsAnonymous. It works for me, it can for you, too! Huggs and may your 24 be sober

and spiritual! Tessa

When I was new in AA one of the guys who lived in my neighborhood helped me a lot--

more than he ever realized. Then Eddie got drunk after about ten years sober, andstayed out another eight years. He tried to come back, but his alcoholism hadprogressed to the point where he couldn't last a full day without a drink, even going toas many meetings as were available at that time. Eddie was lucky--he was able to getadmitted to a detox long enough for the booze to get out of his system and he couldget back into the Steps. Eddie died of Cancer, with a little over six years sober.Pat, if you can get to some kind of detox facility, please try it. It's easy for us to tellyou to get to a meeting, but I know what it's like when meetings simply won't do the job.Jim.

In the four years I've been part of this group I have never witnessed such behavior.After many attempts to quell the situation and as much as it goes against my

principles, for his continued disregard for the members and use of profanity I had toremove Scott from our roles.

For those of you who get posts sent to your mail box I'd like to apologize forallowing this to continue for as long as it did. I had hoped we could come to areasonable conclusion but it seems that was not possible.

I'd like to thank you all for being part of my sobriety.



Good Morningthanks Neil for posting , this thread has been helpful to me, I was wondering if life was going to behumdrum now that I've found sobriety, however I was amazed at the excitement I felt booking aholiday for the family last week. I was pleased to know that I can still, feel excitement , the thought of the pleasure the kids will have in a swimmimng pool was what did it for me . This time last year Iwould have been planning and scheming how to fit drink in.

And the replies re needing chaos in my life has made me start to consider my employment choices.Many Thanks to allMairi

A Special Morning wish for you...... I wish you all the Joys of Sobriety and Recovery. I wish you Good Health, Happiness &

Peace, and most of all I wish you all a Great Day Stay Safe, Sober/Clean and be Happy, just for 24 hours at a

time.

Smiles & Hugssss

Elva

One must never, for whatever reason, turn his back of life.---Eleanor Roosevelt ---

We’re going to have tough times. Maybe we don’t get a pay raise. Maybe we get fired.Whatever happens, don’t use alcohol or other drugs. Whatever happens, keep workingthe program. Our program will never turn its back on us. When tough times come, wecan always turn to our meetings and sponsors. We’re lucky because we don’t have toface hard times alone. We have no reason to give up because our program will never

give up.So, pull closer to your program when times get tough. Call a friend and talk about your

problems. Take in an extra meeting. All of this keeps us from turning our backs on life

Another sick group member piled on (while having no criticism of her friends whomade vile attacks and told despicable lies):

I had a sponsor told me that when I came and whinned am I victim of this situation ordid I place myself in the position to be a volunteer. I had to think about this one. Today before I whine, I try to remember and ask myself am I really a victim or did Ivolunteer.

Classic victim blaming. I sure as hell didn't volunteer for some sick freaktaking cheap shots and calling me mentally ill.

Victims whine. I told him and you to fuck off. My Gawd, you people are justabout the sickest group of drunks I've seen outside of a prison meeting. One

thing for sure: prison meetings have a higher standard of ethics and personalbehavior.

Not to mention a more civilized discourse: no surprise the cowards who tookthose vile cheap shots did so from the safety of their computers. NO ONE has



ever had the balls to talk like that to me in person, in over seventeen years

and several thousand meetings.Says all the observer needs to know about how sick this group is. Not ONE

word of criticism of their friends, but all of you feel free to criticize me.Shame you are such an ignorant group of drunks and apparently know

nothing about how dysfunctional groups work......or the insight to see how

you act to reinforce your own defenses against the reality of your acts.You just volunteered for that reaming. Hope you find it useful. Take it to

your sponsor along with the rest of this thread. Show what you truly are.

Thanks for posting this! My new sponsor sent me something to read, it had to do withsomething Bill W wrote about Emotional Sobriety. Well, finding my new sponsor was definately a God thing & everytime I see the wordemotional....... I'm starting to think that maybe God wants me to do a little more research of thisemotional sobriety & maybe be able to apply it better to my life today. In Love & Service, kansasmae

I had a sponsor told me that when I came and whinned am I victim of this situation ordid I place myself in the position to be a volunteer. I had to think about this one. Today before I whine, I try to remember and ask myself am I really a victim or did Ivolunteer. Love & Service,

kansasmae

From: nova_

Scott, You said in 1 or 2 posts in this string that you could not agree with me more, thankyou but no thank you, don't patronize me. I have to go with the consensus in here. Clearly, you speak the English well and seem to be well educated, as demonstated. Soyou have a degree, an MA in psychology and you are are a certified addictionscounselor. I really can not say that this is impressive, they are a dime a dozen, whichcame about in the late 80's and early 90's, just like the so called consultants of allsorts at that time. It is best to let it go at that. Your opinions are welcome, what is not welcome is your attempted insults, directed atmembers here. The vast majority are long standing members, and they did not justfall off the turnip truck. Many of them just lurk, their choice . I have no idea if they

http://groups.msn.com/TheRecoveryAACoffeeHouse/profile?user=nova_

http://groups.msn.com/TheRecoveryAACoffeeHouse/profile?user=nova_



even bother reading the posts. For the ones that do, many of them did not evenrespond to your repeated posts and replies...that should be a clear message to you. I said it in a recent post, words to the effect, " I'm smarter than you, so there. "

It reminds of part of my childhood - My day is tougher than your dad. When I told my

father this, he just laughed :) I hope you stay on with us, Scott, without the flames, your contributions add a goodamount of spice here. I can only ask that you acknowledge that we are all in prettymuch the same boat. Regards, Rob

Scott,What's the point? 7 out of the last fourteen posts are yours and you haven't said

anything new. You have expressed your opinion, we got it, don't ya think it's time tolet it rest?

Read this. refuse to act with any integrity, and launch some vile, despicable personal

attacks.

On the other side of the wall is honor, decency, ethics, morals, and qualitysobriety, plus a willingness to look at the self.

You act like a drunk in a bar who is confronted with his insanity: attack,

demean, lie.

I just love screwing with bleeding deacons. I consider it a public service, acontribution to the well being of AA.

Stop being such a jerk,

I'm inclined to think that I ran into another arrogant, big mouthed bleeding

deacon.

I enjoy tweaking you, I enjoyed taking him down a notch.

How sad. One of the first refuges of the liar is to attack the sanity of someone who refuses to play their sick games.

it sure doesn't seem like YOU are far from YOUR last shot of booze.

Gawd, I love questioning authority.



But as long as they want to act like jerks, I'm happy to expose them for the

dishonest, manipulative, dishonorable jerks they are.

You truly are an ignorant and pathetic liar.

What is truly sad is that your buddies are going to continue to pile on, and

none of them will condemn this truly deranged and transparent vileness:indeed, they will encourage you to continue your abuse.

his rude and arrogant behavior, then resorts to another cheap shot.

I have not lied and have not taken any cheap shots, and I remain open to

reasoned, civil discussion of these issues.

Again, sometimes the hardest thing to see is yourself.

I thought I was the only one here with the childish spats. But even I know whenenough is enough. The time to bury the hatchet has long since past. I've got a box fullof complaints, one asking to be removed from the mailing list, over what? Who'sexposing who for what they believe the other to be? I tried to point out we're not whatwe appear to be on the net, not by any long shot. Where are you going with this? Whatdo you hope to accomplish? Would you rather be right or happy?

Paddy C shows up here, first day and this is what he finds. I'd be disgusted too.

There are lurkers here, people who are reading and still drinking, would you call thisattractive? If you were new or still drinking and read this thread would that make yousay, " Hey this is where I might find the answer, these people really know what they'retalking about. " I kind of doubt it. This reminds me of the out of control exchanges thatled to fisticuffs at the local watering hole. My sponsor tells me " It's not old behavior if you're still doing it. "

Look, nobody's right when everybody's wrong and this thread has gone on long

enough. I got my hand on the BLAMMO BUTTON, and I ain't afraid to use it. One morepeep out of any of you and I'm sending this thread to Kingdom Come, I mean it!

As Mr. Kastanza would say, SerenityNOW!a meeting sound nice. Let me know & I will try to be there! Im CT zone. kansasmae

A TURNING POINT A great turning point in our lives came when we sought for humility as something wereally wantes, rather than as something we must have.



Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions. p. 75 Either the AA way of life becomes one of joy or I return to the darkness and despair of alcoholism. Joy comes to me when my attitude concerning God and humility turns toone of desire rather than of burden. The darkness in my life changes to radiant lightwhen I arrive at the realization that being truthful and honest in dealing with my

inventory results in my life filled with serenity, freedom, and joy. trust in my HigherPower deepens, and the flush of gratitude spreads through my being. I am convincedthat being humble is being truthful and honest in dealing with myself and God. It isthen that humility is something I "really want," rather than being "something I musthave."

the two of yous ought to be ashamed of yourselves, you call your selves sober ,your just dry. everyone serves as an example, in your cases it is "the bad example". Growup and quit with the arguments life is too short.

That MA and your ego won't do you much good when you hit that wall. I can't evenimagine what use you would be to a still-suffering alcoholic. It scares me to think thatyour treatment centre might actually value someone with such an obvious personalitydisorder. Let it go, Scott.....a drunk is a drunk is a drunk.....we don't impress easily when we'retruly sober.

Planter Jim showed his true character by taking a cheap shot, telling a lie....andconveniently snipping the paragraph previous to the sentence he quotes, in which Ipredicted what he would do.Allow me to demonstrate his utter lack of any ethical standards: I wrote, and Jim quoted me:

Gawd, I love questioning authority. Especially anyone who nominates himself as an AA authority.One of the grandest traditions of this wonderful anarchy. Drives bleeding

deacons absolutely nuts. Then Planter Jim wrote:Then Planterjim piled on again.Gawd, I love bugging untreated alcoholics!! The paragraph he failed to quote follows: I invite anyone to read my previous replies to this particular deacon, andnotice how he avoids any discussion of his rude and arrogant behavior, then

resorts to another cheap shot. Bad enough that he misuses the Big Book todo so, but his avoidance of civilized, fair, reasoned discussion says all you

need to know about HIS sobriety.

To conclude, notice how he avoided any discussion of his rude and arrogantbehavior, then calls me an "untreated alcoholic". His dishonesty and

cowardice are even more transparent when you consider that I have

seventeen years of continuous sobriety, two degrees in psychology, over fifty



credits plus another thirty credits of continuing education in addiction

science, am a credentialed addictions counselor, frequently lectureprofessional addictions counselors, etc..........

But the truth never seemed to bother him and his fellow bleeding deaconswhen I refuse to acknowlege their perceived authority. Indeed, all I do is

expose them for the frauds they are, and all they have done is launch obvious

ad hominem attacks while refusing to discuss the issues raised by their sickbehavior.

An honorable man who actually worked the program would immediately

retract his lies and do a tenth step.Instead, what Jim and his buddies will do is continue to attack. No surprise

I'm not impressed by their sobriety, eh?

Gawd, I love questioning authority. Especially anyone who nominates himself

as an AA authority.

One of the grandest traditions of this wonderful anarchy. Drives bleedingdeacons absolutely nuts.

Then Planterjim piled on again. Gawd, I love bugging untreated alcoholics!! Untreated alcoholic? You truly are an ignorant and pathetic liar. Instead of discussingthe issues, you take a cheap shot.Here are some clues for you. I have an MA in psychology. I am a certified addictionscounselor and have spent many years treating pathological liars and pathetic know italls who pose as recovering alcoholics but act like sick drunks.In short, people like you.You are utterly without honor or honesty. You should be ashamed of yourself. What adishonest cheap shot!

Kenny, pay no attention to all those glitzy greetings - they just heard me say "cake"! Sorry, guys, you're too late!

Untreated alcoholics like this are so easy though, Jim.....like dying suns theyeventually burn right out. Anything to avoid going to any length for sobriety. I like that word "ban" that he used, though........ ;-) Kenny, are you there?

Gawd, I love questioning authority. Especially anyone who nominates himself as an AA authority.

One of the grandest traditions of this wonderful anarchy. Drives bleedingdeacons absolutely nuts.

Then Planterjim piled on again. Gawd, I love bugging untreated alcoholics!!

If you want it, you know where it is. Give your local AA intergroup a call.

In my opinion, that book was written by and about alcoholics whose disease had progressed past the stage that mine was at when I came in to the rooms of AA.

It's stated in the book.



From the forward We, OF Alcoholics Anonymous, are more than one hundred men and women who have recovered from a seemingly

hopeless state of mind and body.

Doctor's Opinionwas an alcoholic of a type I had come to regard as hopeless

There is a SolutionWe, of ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, know thousands of men and women who were once just as hopeless as Bill.Page 43What you say about the general hopelessness of the average alcoholic's plight is, inmy opinion, correct. As to two of you men, whose stories I have heard, there is nodoubt in my mind that you were 100% hopeless, apart from divine help.

If, when you honestly want to, you find you cannot quit entirely, or if when drinking,you have little control over the amount you take, you are probably alcoholic. If that bethe case, you may be suffering from an illness which only a spiritual experience willconquer.

Howdy Pat, want to but cant stop drinking, i drink from the time i get up until i pass-out at night.

Yeah, I did that too.

stayed sober for two years, just cant seem to get back on track,

So you know this thing we do works. If taken the twelve steps will remove (y)ourdesire to drink. As much as I hate the parrot thing, It works if you work at it.

Im scared to go to a local meeting. Sorry for whinning.

Now that's about the silliest thing I've ever heard. What would make you scaredabout going to an AA meeting? You've been there, you know there are no sobrietyhoops of fire you'll have to jump through, no snakes to handle, no speeches or lecturesto endure. It will be full of alcoholics though, can you take a room full of booze

hounds? Personally they don't bother me much.

And about this whinning. It takes what it takes. If'n you're gonna need to whineinstead of buying wine, go ahead. I'd rather listen to that then see another one of usdie. And when that pain gets to be too much, we'll be here. You can do it we can help.

Kenny

Rob, I couldn't agree more with you.When certain invidividuals stop taking my inventory, stop making sick and despicable judgements about my program, stop telling me what to think and what to believe, stopthe ad hominem pile on attacks, I will be happy to continue to ignore them as I havehappily ignored them for the many years I have lurked on this newsgroups. If I wasacting like them, I'd be taking cheap shots at every fatuous, ignorant, neanderthalpost I don't like and publicly condemning the author while questioning their sobriety.



But I have not done so. These self-appointed authorities have done exactly that tome.But as long as they want to act like jerks, I'm happy to expose them for the dishonest,manipulative, dishonorable jerks they are. I reserve the right to tell the truth whenothers lie, challenge orthodoxy, question authority, and define MY God as I understandhim rather than have this fundamentalist garbage stuffed down my throat.

If you have any criticism, direct it at the regulars who have piled on in their criticism,without ever discussing their behavior or their grossly inappropriate behavior.

Neil, I don't normally "double-dip" but I came across this reading this morning -- oneof my favorites: Is sobriety all that we are to expect of a spiritual awakening? No , sobriety isonly a bare beginning, it is only the first gift of the first awakening . If more

gifts are to be received, our awakening has to go on. As it does go on , we

find that bit by bit we can dicard the old life , the one that did not work , for anew life that can and does work under any conditions whatever ..

[As Bill Sees It - p.8]

"NINGUN HOMBRE ES UNA ISLA"

Estaba espiritualmente en bancarrota mucho antes de que A.A. entrara en mi vida ymucho antes de que el alcoholismo, como un parásito bajo mi piel, tomara posesión demí. Yo no tenía nada, ninguna fe a que aferrarme. No tenía fe en el hombre, porque alir progresando mi deber había perdido la fe en mí misma. No confiaba en nadie,porque los demás no eran más que el mero reflejo de mí misma, y yo no podía confiaren mí.Logré la sobriedad dentro de A.A., y, como un milagro, el cálido torrente de la verdadque tanto había temido durante tanto tiempo me inundó, y ya no volví a tener miedo.

Comencé a preguntarme por que. Junto con la sobriedad, algo nuevo había entrado enmi vida.Comencé a tener interés por otros. Esta expresión "interés por otros", junto con suhermana consideración, eran para mí una cosa extraña. Había creído que era capaz deenamorarme; me había considerado una madre amorosa; pero estas emociones, ahoralo comprendo, habían sido reflejos de mi propio egoísmo. Nada penetró dentro de miser. Comencé, temprano con mi sobriedad, a sentir compasión por otros borrachos,luego por mis hijos, luego por mi ex-esposo. Esta compasión, un sentimientoacompañado posteriormente de amor, abrió la puerta de una inmensa ciudadela dentrode mí que siempre había estado herméticamente cerrada.Pero lo extraño ahora, en la sobriedad, era que no estaba yo regresando a mi estadoanterior. No estaba reasumiendo aquel "estar bien" que yo había dejado cuandocomencé a beber anormalmente. Iba estando, como oí decirlo una vez, "mejor quebien". Escudriñando (veía el Paso Cuatro) dentro de mi propia personalidad, encontréun nuevo ser dentro de mí. Nunca había estado ahí antes, ni siquiera en mi niñez.Debió haber crecido en dónde estaba una piedra o un agujero vacío.Algo estaba ahora echando raíces. Comencé a sentir por otros, a ser capaz, por muybreves momentos, de "ponerme en sus zapatos". Nuevos mundos se abrieron ante mí.Comencé a comprender mi posición en el mundo. Yo no era el centro del universo.(¡qué calamidad me pareció descubrir eso!) Yo era una parte de un misteriogigantesco, maravillosamente misterioso. No podía probarlo, porque no sabía nadaacerca de él. Sólo podía dar vueltas a su alrededor con una curiosidad infantil, Y aún



estoy dándole vueltas. Nunca descubriré, ni lo hará ninguno de nosotros, los secretosdel universo. Pero podemos aceptar sus misterios, la parte que tenemos en ellos, ynuestras vidas y muertes; como algo espiritual más allá de nuestra comprensión.Comencé a observar a mis hijos. Eran gente pequeña, importante. Me di cuenta de quemientras estaba bebiendo, no los había tratado más que como a pequeñas máquinasque yo había creado, como si yo hubiera sido parte de un juego de Mecano y hubiera

estado orgullosa de ello. Al ir cambiando mi manera de tratarlos, los vi empezar amadurar, a enfrentarse a al realidad de la vida tal como ésta es. Extendí una manopara ayudar a alguien, aunque sólo escuchando algunas veces, y sentí una extrañasatisfacción al ser capaz de ayudar: ¡un descubrimiento increíble para mí!.Aprendí mi propia versión de lo que es la espiritualidad. No significa que tengo que sercomo los santos que dicen tener consejos directos y visiones de Dios. Significa quetengo que interesarme por mis semejantes; únicamente a través de esto puedo recibirla gracia de Dios, Mi Poder Superior, porque como dijo John Donne, mucho antes deA.A., "ningún hombre es una isla".Comencé a sentir seguridad en mis nuevos sentimientos espirituales, hasta que fuesacudida una noche por un amigo de A.A. quien me dijo "muy bien, así es que puedesaplicar a tu vida personal el Paso Tres y una fe espiritual en Dios, pero ¿cómo puedeaceptar las terribles calamidades que suceden alrededor de nosotros todos los días?".

Me enfrentaba otra vez, peligrosamente, con los interrogantes de mi religiosa, pero noespiritual, infancia - ¿cómo puedo aceptar una fe en u Dios quien permite esosmonstruosos crímenes contra el hombre, a pensar, llena de miedo, sobre la muerte yel sufrimiento, no el mío, sino el de toda la humanidad. Comencé a dudar demasiadode mi nueva fe - comenzó a invadirme el pánico. Comencé a buscar las respuestasfuera de la literatura de A.A.Afortunadamente para mí, antes de que hubiera leído demasiado acerca de lascreencias espirituales (un área que sólo estaba llevándome a la confusión), me dicuenta de que estaba pidiendo demasiadas cosas y demasiado pronto.Prudentemente, dejé los libros de filosofía para mentes más capaces que la mía. Nopodía arriesgarme a llegar a una mayor confusión mental. Regresé a las enseñanzas deA.A., las cuales ya me habían salvado de una vida de tormentos.

No necesitaba buscar más allá de los Doce Pasos y de las fortalecedoras palabras de laOración de la Serenidad. "De aceptar las cosas que no puedo cambiar". Mi respuestapersonal está ahí en la palabra "aceptar". Aceptar el lugar del hombre en la escenauniversal. Aceptar mi vida como una diminuta partícula del todo. Ninguno de nosotrospuede nunca profundizar las glorias y las regiones desconocidas del universo. Peropodemos vivir sobre la tierra y amarnos los unos a los otros. Podemos dejar que nazcaen nosotros el interés por otros, la compasión y la consideración, y observamos comocrecemos. Con las herramientas y las instrucciones de señales de AlcohólicosAnónimos, podemos aprender un poco de este precioso regalo: nuestra puerta deentrada a la espiritualidad humana.

Nueva York.

EXTASIS

No podemos estacionarnos en un A.A. ni frío ni caliente, ni de medias tintas al trabajarlos Pasos, o dedicarnos demasiado a envejecer y descansa en nuestra sobriedad dehoy. No, si queremos conservarnos sobrios.¡No! Yo creo que tenemos que continuar buscando algo mejor que la penumbra de larutina, mejor que una vida común, mejor que la espiritualidad mediocre. En un artículollamado "la Búsqueda del Extasis", escrito para el A.A. Grapevine, el filósofo GeraldHeard dice, "Parecería . . . que ninguno de nosotros está viviendo en una medida



suficientemente alta, como para ser capaz de enfrentar las tensiones a las que ahoraestamos propensos a ser expuestos, sin que os resquebrajemos . . . El alcoholismo(como todas las adiciones) no es una base para buscar una cabal tranquilidad. Es en sí un deseo de ese éxtasis, ese "levantarse" fuera de esas cercadas lagunas deconformismo, allá donde no existen aún mapas de los océanos, en donde la única guíason las estrellas del cielo".

¿Alienta en cualquier lugar un alcohólico sobrio para quién este pasaje no sea de unprofundo significado?.Hace algunos años me encontraba sentado en un bar de Nueva York hablando con unperiodista que acababa de perder otro trabajo a causa de su bebida. Estaba interesadoen mi historia como A.A. Pero se encendió como un árbol de navidad, iracundo,perdiendo el interés en cualquier cosa que se refiera a regenerarlo a él . . . ese día.Se me vino una idea. Dije, "Sabes H., creo que uno de los grandes placeres de fugarsemediante la bebida, es esa sensación de encontrarse a muchos kilómetros de distanciade los idiotas. Tú estás caminando por diferente ruta, con diferente horario, diferentemúsica, con una excitación realmente existencialista, en el filo de la navaja entreplacer-dolor, progreso-desastre". Y más cosas con el mismo efecto.Me di cuenta que el fin tenía un atento escucha H. dijo que así era exactamente lasituación. Lo que le atraía era vivir muy lejos de todo, con desastres o sin ellos. Vivir

como lo idiotas era un aburrimiento, un arrastrarse por el suelo, una maldiciónimposible.Ahora creo que ése completamente infructuoso esfuerzo de Paso Doce (rezo porque H.pueda ahora estar dentro de A.A. en algún lugar) me ayude a mí. Desde entoncesnunca dejé de estar consciente del hecho de que, como un alcohólico, era mejor nofijar mi puntería en ser yo como los demás, sencillamente tan común, tan indolente.De hecho, yo no sé realmente como es un ser común - o sea, un no alcohólico - así esque no debo dejar que en mi mente se establezca una idea falsa de cómo vivirnormalmente. No; déjenme adherirme por un momento a la opinión del Sr. Heard. Suénfasis está hecho para mí. Si como un alcohólico voy a "levantarme fuera de esascercadas lagunas de conformismo" y permanecer sobrio, - ¿cómo lo voy a hacer? -¿Uniéndome a una guerrilla? ¿Yéndome de hippie? ¿Dedicándome al Yoga?

Bueno, yo tengo una respuesta: practicando los Doce Pasos. ¿Insípidos? ¿He intentadopracticarlos? No lo intenté mucho por cierto en lo que se refiere a los tres primerosPasos durante mis dos primeros años dentro de A.A. Mi opinión sobre los nueve Pasosrestantes era que sólo estaban ahí para completar el cuadro: eran más bien piadososque prácticos. Uno no necesitaba forzosamente ir tan lejos y cosas por el estilo.Pero tuve, durante mi jornada, un poquito de mala suerte. Me sentí dentro de untorbellino: trabajo, salud, familia, todos parecían correr sobriamente alocados almismo tiempo. Y fui impulsado (ahora lo veo como si por una fuerza espiritual) aintentar los Pasos Cuatro y Cinco, inventario y confesión. No hice un buen trabajo.Escribió una parte del inventario, pero no todo. Dije alguno de mis errores, los másagobiantes, pero todos. A pesar de ésos, obtuve de ellos un excitante año de progresoespiritual. En alguna forma importante, había cambiado.Entonces vino una baja en el ritmo, como evidentemente tiene que suceder siempre.

Empecé a creer que los Pasos Seis y Siete requerían más trabajo. Interesante, Difícil.Existencialista. El filo de la navaja de desastre-progreso. Una nueva y extrañapresencia de Dios y de mí mismo.Me di cuenta de que no puede haber "laguna de conformismo" para el hombre que seencara a sus defectos de carácter, los confiesa, llega a estar listo para cambiarlos y lepide a Dios que se los cambie.¡Dinamita! ¿Me atrevo a prender la mecha? ¿No puedo hacer algo así como dejar quetodo pase de largo, y quedarme en un promedio de manera de vivir, modesto,tranquilo, corriente, no muy espiritual? Después de todo X puede hacerlo, también Y y



también Z.¿Pero ellos, son alcohólicos? Bueno, no lo son. Y, en realidad, ¿Sé algo acerca de susvidas espirituales? Bueno, no lo sé.Regreso hacia mí mismo. Necesitaba ser otro. Esa es la razón por la que bebía. Y aúnnecesito ser otro. Habiendo probado el tóxico camino de las drogas, y en exceso,déjenme intentar el "remedio" (en palabras de Heard) camino de los Pasos, el camino

de la salud y la alegría. Los Pasos son la medicina especifica para aquello que estáequivocado (o correcto, eso no importa) dentro de mí: el alcoholismo. Ellos son elcamino para ser otro . . . y cuerdo por el mismo precio.He llegado hasta el punto: ahora sé que lo que está implícito al practicar el programade A.A. en su totalidad, tal como lo transmitieron los primeros A.A., no es laperspectiva de volverme un santurrón. Es en cambio la "amenaza" de estarverdaderamente vivo, consciente y aún quizás en éxtasis. Estoy convencido que si noacepto todo lo que este programa ofrece (o demanda), y en su lugar me alejo de elcomo si fuera algo de más precio de lo que negocié, podría emborracharme.En otras palabras, si no trabajo seriamente y en su totalidad los Pasos de A.A., nopuedo esperar encontrarme "dentro del programa".

Vermont.

Kansasmae, there are many books that are "AA approved." Right off hand, I can't thinkof any that are "AA unapproved." Conference approval doesn't mean that thepublication is going to be much help to a newcomer, just that it has passed the criteriafor approval.I'm with Kenny. Maybe I'm missing something, but wouldn't it help to get sober inorder to live sober? And doesn't Step Twelve say we've had a spiritual awakening"....as the result of these Steps..." ?When I was at sea, our conversations and discussions centered around two topics--booze and/or sex. The young sailors would hear the salts tell of what they drank,where they drank, who they drank with, and what they did when they drank. Oddly,during those discussions, not a single sailor got drunk.

We can discuss all different methods of getting sober, read all the books on gettingsober, learn how millions of others got sober, but until we take the action of theTwelve Steps, we won't get sober.Jim S.

Welcome, Lia! Glad you are here. I also suffer from depression and did the self injury.Know that in AA that you are not alone. We will love you so you can learn to loveyourself. Keep going to meetings, keep in touch with your sponsor, and enjoy thiswonderful board. The photo I posted is an old one from the days of Bill W. I always feelwarm inside when I look at it because this is a reminder that we are not alone inAlcoholics Anonymous. The two men are doing service work and spreading themessage by visiting this lonely alcoholic.



Man, you are like a raw nerve ending. Someone with contented sobriety does not showup geared for battle saying the things I copied above.Why do some of the posters to this (and many other) site(s) remind me of page 27,

line 6?Jim.

I've been reading in the big book with my sponsor and all the time she's asking me if Ican relate to this or that and I'm like yeah, I can relate to it from my bipolar but notfrom my drinking... like making all these plans of what I'm going to do and being reallydetermined, and in the book it says that person couldn't do it because they starteddrinking again... well I've done that, made all the plans and started things and didn'tdo it because of my anxiety or bipolar, not because of drinking. And when I get tothings like that I start thinking "Ok I don't really have a problem, it's my bipolar that'sthe problem" when in reality I know if for no other reason my drinking's a problembecause of that phenomenon of craving, after that first drink I can't stop until I'm sick

or passed out, every time. There are things I can relate to in it with the drinking hereand there... but there's a *lot* I can't relate to with the drinking and when I get tothose things I start trying to tell myself "see, I don't have a problem". And then I readand hear all these stories of people hitting rock bottom before they got help and Inever hit rock bottom, I didn't lose anything from drinking except my dignity backwhen I was partying, I just knew it was a problem because my most recent bingelasted 3 weeks of every night drinking and I got sick one too many times, I probablywouldn't have thought to go to AA if my cousin hadn't said something about it a weekbefore I decided to go, telling me I needed help. I would've just rode it out and waiteduntil the binge was over and gone another few months until the next binge.

I don't know where I'm going with this... just thinking out loud I guess... just kindafeeling like I can't really relate to a lot of things right now.

I had a hard time with sponteniety in social situations for years. It even made my 4thstep it was so bad. I discovered that "for me" it had to do with selfish-self centeredness and control. there are going to be social situations that I will be "thrown" into and instead of focusing on the fact that I dont like it - I try to find something pleasant about thesituation and try to add something to it rather than expect to gain something to it (the



big book talks about this regarding drinking situations on pages 100-102 and I canapply that in other situations as well. I have less of a problem with needing control in social situations than I used to --- aby-product of learning how to live and let live I suppose.

BTW this isnt an analysis of you --- it is me sharing about me - just wanted to makethat clear

I think some of this stuff is a natural part of the journey -- transitions -- looks likethings are changing in areas of your life and they're maybe making you feel a bituncomfortable. I get these moments too. The more they happen to me the more I cansee my old life falling away.

But excitment? To be honest, Neil, I get much of that feeling from working with otherdrunks. I'm serious.You want drama? Thrills? Adrenalin rushes? I get all of that andmore -- unexpected gifts...from doing for others what others did for me. I don't donearly enough of it, but what I do has a habit of "repaying" me a few times over. Thekind of excitment I have today is something that no amount of dry white wine couldever buy. I don't know anything for sure, really. I'm very much a novice in this new life; I onlyknow that it's worth hanging onto.

My mom was twenty. The third woman from the left is her sister 18. The other girlsand boys/men are their cousins who lived in New Jersey. The kid in the middle backrow Jack, lived in Centerport here on the island.

This is a great topic. I certainly have had problems being with groups of people. Iteach, and I feel more comfortable in front of a classroom than I do with a person one

on one. When I was younger, I was punked out. I used that as a way to tell people toget the heck away from me. I've always had an excuse of why people wouldn't like me,I'm too fat, too tall, too scary looking, etc. There are always going to be people whodon't like you, but they are probably more anxious than you are!

One thing I have discovered in AA is that you can never assume that someone is likeyou or not by their age, appearance, sex, race, etc. We have more in common thananyone would ever guess. I've always put it on other people to make ME feelcomfortable. Not anymore! It is not their responsibility. I still love my alone time, butI also feel much better when I don't isolate. When I isolate, I get anxious, and I wantto use. I don't want to use anymore, so I don't isolate. Period.

JaneOr "Coming down, is the hardest thing" Tom Petty. LOL, Kenny. Always wanted to sky dive, butt.......no thanx. Like to keep me feet on the ground. Neil, Thanx for your post. Ya I have felt that way a few times. I am getting a little old tobe jumping out of planes, especially without a parachute. Going back to drinking



would have the same effect. I used to miss the night life, especially the dancing. Idon't miss the headache, feeling tired all day, etc. I have found a lot of excitement in firsts in sobriety. Like going down a snowy inclineon a tube, or another first, going down a water slide. Taking a ride on a renovatedWWII DUK on a lake, well you get the drift. I guess I am growing up and slowing

down, I just don't miss that life any more. I have had enough danger while drinking tolast two lifetimes. Good thing God looks after little children and drunks.

Hoping your 24 is serene and sober. Huggs-Tessa

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