WHITEWORLD · Web viewFeb 24, 2007 · If you don't talk, if you don't bring up your problems,...
Transcript of WHITEWORLD · Web viewFeb 24, 2007 · If you don't talk, if you don't bring up your problems,...
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f50New White World
Red = look at, clarify
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Red Lake Indian Reservation – Wikipedia
Red Lake Indian Reservation
Mississippi River Band of Chippewa Indians – Wikipedia
Leech Lake Indian Reservation
living with "Indian Reorganization,"
living with "The Indian New Deal,"
land "management"
welfare,
and a the U.S. government [programs]
Image is already online
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Red Lake Leech Lake White EarthXxx zzz
Xxx zzz
“Indian Reorganization”Land
Tribal soverentyLand loss
“The Indian New Deal”Xxx zzz
Xxx zzz
land "managementForestry (US Forest Service) /Conservation (MN DNR)
MinesRivers/dams
Xxx zzz
Xxx zzz
welfareXxx zzz
Xxx zzz
the U.S. governmentWPA
CAP vista
Xxx zzz
Xxx zzz
xxxXxx zzz
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5. Red Lake; Peter Graves; Leadership; Jobs; Forestry; Laws
[20-18A] Well, As far back as the beginning, the Mississippi Indians [xxxaddftnt] were
going along good with their councils. [ftnt councils ch] And each chief worked together
on that council. And in that area where they live they had different requests; they had
different problems. So by that way they worked together.
So now, Red Lake wanted to withdraw [from xxx] to run their own government,
because it was so hard for them to come into our council [xxxmeetings]. [And] It was so
hard for us to council up there. The transportation those days was hard. [20-18b] It
was hard to get there. It took time. So I guess they decided, "Sure." So they shot the
proposition out into and through Washington, D.C.
[20-19] And we [they] had smart men taking over that [xxx Red Lake] reservation.
They were smart Indians to run their own self-government. And then these [other]
parties here, that's White Earth, Leech Lake and all over, they went along as a whole
on the Reorganization Act. [xxxftnt] I mean Red Lake set up before the Reorganization
[1934] set in. They give 'em their own reservation.
Photo on-line
F
Peter Graves, Red Lake Band of Chippewas Tribal Chief.Photograph Collection 1950
Location no. E97.1G p2 Negative no. 12258
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It's well, all I could remember was Mr. Graves, Pete Graves. [was one of the
leaders the leader at Red Lake.] [ftnt 1872/1870-1957, Middleholtz 110-111
<http://www.maquah.net/Historical/1902/1902-McLaughlinCouncils-INDEX.htmlhttp://www.maquah.net/Historical/1902/1902-
McLaughlinCouncils-INDEX.html>] I remember about 1918,[when] Peter Graves was in the Indian
Office at Onigum. [Middleholtz, 111 quote in footnote] And that Pete Graves left for
Red Lake. [ftnt the town of Red Lake] Somehow I helped him move his stuff to the boat.
I knew Pete in the Indian office there. I said, "What happened, Pete? Are you leaving
us?" I was going to school at the Onigum [Ponema?] agency. [xxxaddmap] There was
an agency there and I was going to school there. I said, "What happened, Pete?"
"Oh," he said, "I'm moving to Red Lake."
So I figured there was some set-up then. I was a pretty young fellow then. So
they he moved to Red Lake. And then from that time on I heard some Indians say,
"Pete Graves came along and helped these Indians. He directed them."
Xxx He had Indian in him. zzz I think Pete had some Indian in him. He talked
Indian. He had Indian in him. I think he was from the Red Lake area. I didn't know him
too well; he was older than I am, but I knew where he was from. He was from
someplace up there.
I hear Indians say, "He made a good reservation."
Xxx So now, Red Lake wanted to withdraw [from xxx] to run their own government,
because it was so hard for them to come into our council [xxxmeetings]. [And] It was so
hard for us to council up there. The transportation those days was hard. [20-18b] It
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was hard to get there. It took time. So I guess they decided, "Sure." So they shot the
proposition out into and through Washington, D.C.
[20-19] And we [they] had smart men taking over that [xxx Red Lake] reservation.
They were smart Indians to run their own self-government. And then these [other]
parties here, that's White Earth, Leech Lake and all over, they went along as a whole
on the Reorganization Act. [xxxftnt] I mean Red Lake set up before the Reorganization
[1934] set in. They give 'em their own reservation.
zzz
They had a reservation of their own, and they were more advanced, and they
had a good school. They had a sisters' school. I think they were getting along good.
We just set and waited to see what would happen. I know what drawed back the
other way. It was that fifty-year period [ftntPB46], that extension on the treaty payment,
then the self-government came afterward. The self-government body came by the
state law. They said we're going to get better education, that is, you were getting
educated more with the self-government.
But the younger class all said, "Council, council, council. That's all we have.
[20-20] If we have to wait for the council to do something," he said, "we're going to be
way behind. We're going to be still in the same boat if we don't work. If the council
don't work for us."
I never heard a claim against [the Red Lakers not splitting off.] And I never
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heard Red Lakers claim against this Mississippi group.
Xxx [20-18A] Well, As far back as the beginning, the Mississippi Indians [xxxaddftnt]
were going along good with their councils. [ftnt councils ch] And each chief worked
together on that council. And in that area where they live they had different requests;
they had different problems. So by that way they worked together.
zzz
I think they did well. They had a good reservation. It was solid. We go and visit them
at times. During powwows I hear them talk. They accepted us when we went to school
up there in our times. [I] went to the sisters’ school up there from 1914-1915 for two
winters. Then [I] went later to Onigum [Ponemah??] Indian School. We sometimes
went to the sister's school and all that. We didn't have any trouble up north. We didn't
have any trouble at Red Lake. And Red Lakers didn't have any trouble with us, that I
remember. So we always played as a friend with the Red Lakers.
I think they did pretty good to get their own mill. They got it just about the right
time too, about 1918. And they all had jobs. They were more advanced than we were
because they had good men as their leaders, and they followed their leaders. The
leaders, I mean, the education. And they had good councils. With those good councils,
the Congress could work. The Red Lake Indian Council, they called it. And in that
council they had very smart men. They understood them. Then that's the way they
split.
John Smith and Charlie Wakefield were the leaders for this area [at that time].
Of course they passed on now; they died long ago. They died long since. John S.
Smith, that's the younger one. Well, we had a lawyer too, and that was Ed Rogers. He
was well educated. Ed Rogers lived in Walker. He was an educated Indian, he was a
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lawyer. I think he's got a boy now that acts as a lawyer. Ed Rogers, at that time, was a
well-known lawyer. Ed Rogers, at that time, was a well-known attorney. He worked for
the county of that area, too. And in that area, the Onigum area, I think it was Cloud
who was their leader. [20-21] I think it was Cloud, Chief Cloud, or something like that.
And there were a couple, three, other men with him as a secretary. I know one of the
secretaries was in the Indian office.
[We didn't organize like Red Lake because] well, they felt that Red Lake had a
big lake. And they felt that White Earth and this area had iron ore rights. We still had
claims on the iron ore and other mineral rights. But the Red Lake had smart men
because they said, "I think this will be a good place for summer resorts and
vacationers. We have fish, we had hunting, hunting rights and everything. And by the
reservation they could exercise those hunting rights." This area, we had the mineral
rights.
[We have] Leech Lake, yea. That's including Mississippi and Leech Lake
Indians altogether.
The Indians and the people were beginning dropping off [xxx from going to
council]. They wouldn't agree together. They were a little afraid of one another. So
they just stayed calm.
I heard some Indians say one time, "We have lots here, there's a big area here."
The time Rogers was in [office] I heard that we had a lot of hunting grounds here before
the Forestry came in. I think it was 1920s or something back like that, they had a
session with the Forestry Division. The Forestry Division wanted to take over and
regraze this area and make a betterment of this forestry area. They wanted to regraze
it. They wanted to regraze the forestry. They said, "We'll reforestry that and we'll give
you jobs. A lot of the Indians will be working there."
[20-22] We do work there. They're cutting timber and all that.
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They said, "We have jobs for redeveloping the forestry to improve the timber,
plant trees, and regraze the forests. We have better conservation with the Forestry
Division. They conserve the timber, game, and wild life."
That sounded good. So that's why they held back. The Forestry wanted to take
over. They wanted to put in a Forestry Division. After they took the Forestry Division
into the area the Forestry got a hold of that land. Then afterward it became known that
the Forestry Division wanted to buy that land. About the 1930s the division of forestry
shoved a dollar and a quarter an acre on these Indian lands! I didn't like to sell my
interest, but I had a sixty dollar check [xxx/\] one place. All along the line the Forestry
took over. xxxqqqqq Education was coming in and applying more pressure. We felt
that we didn't have a voice. We felt that it was no use working against that. [We] felt
that if we agreed with that guy, he'd get too much power. They felt that he'll get a better
position and then forget us. He'll get a job. Maybe we don't know what he's doing.
Maybe he doesn't work with us. Maybe we didn't know what he was going to do.
It got so that they didn't trust one another, at that time, because when he went to
Washington he'd come back and nothing happened. Those local representatives would
go up there.[ftntPB46] They were Indians. They would go up there on the money that
was donated to them to go. So when they come back, well they'd say, "We are going to
get a little payment, probably because some of them go there." So that's what they tell
us. They come home, but there's no betterment. So it's a losing thing.
Then a reorganization come in to provide a self-governing body, in the Sate of
Minnesota, about 1934, somewhere there in the 30's. They use State laws to set that
up. Then we started a vote for governors, which we did before. But after
reorganization we realized that if we get a good man for our governor, if we get a good
man that represents this area, one that votes on our requests, then we'd be better off.
Then we started to pick up again, see? We started to get a little help then because the
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Indians understood that nobody would make a mis-fault.
[20-23] Then we began to wonder why [xxx/\]. So that's why they said, "Well, it's
so hard, so hard to put anything through. There's too many administrations that they
have to go through. These people up here have by-laws they have to go through too.
The laws are set up."
"Who's the lawmaker? We want to know.”
"That's the lawmaker." They have to be true Americans to be a lawmaker, to set
in with the law. We can't come in, or I can't go to any other country, and make laws. I
have to make laws here where I live. I can't go and make laws in any other state. But
they could hear me though. They could hear me talk about what we do up here. And
then if we are doing good, they will try that in that state. But if they're doing good, and I
seen that they are doing good, I'm going to come back here and tell our people,
"They're doing good in that state."
I'm talking about the people in another state. I'm going to tell them, "I think
they're doing good down there. They're making a go of it. Why don't we try that?"
See we have to follow where the best is. If they don't do anything for our area
we're lost. Who is going to do anything? We have too many channels to go through.
And it costs a lot of money to wait, to go through these channels. And we don't have
too much money here for that.
[20-24] Well it happened all the time. You know how these civil service people cost
money. We have to go through the Indian offices for what we want, and the employees
there get their salary for the business they do. That's the same in any Indian office.
Then the Indian office got their men up there. So we have to work, we have to have
them understand us, and us [we have to] understand them. So it's one way the others.
So, civil service costs money, that's what I mean. The civil service commission doesn't
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work for nothing.
They want to work for better education, I think. If we're not educated in the area,
I don't think we're recognized. Education's coming in and they know more about things,
but without experience. One thing we got to have is experience with education. But if
we go along with the educated without experience, with those who don't know what's
happening in the back, I think it's going to be rough.
This photo is on the PBWebsite
R.F. Lee, Assistant Director, National Park Services; Don Foster, Area Director, Bureau of Indian Affairs; Dale Doty, Assistant Secretary of the Interior; Ed Wilson, Chief of Chippewas; and John Flatt, Chief of Grand Portage Band at Grand Portage national historic site dedication.
Photographer: Abbie Rowe Photograph Collection 8/9/1951
Location no. SD4G p35 Negative no. 38776
M.J. Mattes, National Park Service; Don Foster, Area Director, Bureau of Indian Affairs; John Kauffman, Superintent, Consolidated Chippewa Agency, Cass Lake; Mike Flatt, hereditary Chief of Grand Portage Band; Dale Doty, Assistant Secretary of Interior; Ed
Wilson Chief of Minnesota Chippewa tribes; Ronald F. Lee, National Park Service, and Gus Moe, Bureau of Budget at Grand Portage national historic site dedication.
Photographer: Abbie Rowe Photograph Collection 8/9/1951
Location no. SD4G p36 Negative no. 38775
[Ed Wilson started getting active in affairs in this area] in 1919, 1918, 1920s or
somewhere in there, in the 1920s. I know it was when Knutson was on, that's the way
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we pick it up better. Harold (xxx?) Knutson was on as a representative at that time.
They put up a big powwow and Harold Knutson came in and visited us, and ate
amongst the Indians. They adopted Harold Knutson here at this townsite, expecting
that Harold will help us Indians. They adopted him when he came in. Then pretty soon
all these guys were getting adopted. But we're still the same. We're still in the same
boat. So it's just a big joke. After a while those old timers, those that are my age, felt
that it was just a play. We never saw any better times after they guys were adopted.
Photo on-line
Adoption of Congressman Knutson by the Chippewas.Photograph Collection, Postcard ca. 1920
Visual Resources DatabaseMinnesota Historical Society
Location no. E97.36 r67
Photo on-line
Adoption of Mrs. McConville into the tribe, White Earth Indian ReservationPhotograph Collection 7/14/1924
Subject: Aloysius, FatherSubject: McConville, Mrs.Subject: Morrison, Joseph
Subject: White Earth Indian ReservationLocation no. E97.1 r141
Negative no. 6786
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[20-25] All these old timers, some of them tell me, "If we didn't go ahead and try
to build our own homes, we wouldn't have any." And they had pretty good places on
account of their own work. So, we got so that we didn't want to go to the meetings
anymore. Nothing came back to show for it right now. I hear a lot of them today say,
"What's the use?"
So we know where we stand. We got civil service to pay and we got education
to fight. They're educated, and the civil service got rights, they got claims with the
schools, the administrating, the needy, the "poorcrat." The Indians got too many books
to go through to figure out what's going on.
END Red LakeBEGIN “Indian Reorganization”
qqqBegin
qqqEnd
END “Indian Reorganization”END “Indian Reorganization”
6. Factionalism; CAP; Jobs, Indian-White Relation
[20-33] I feel that the people want to work together. But when they work too much of
one side, relative-ly, with their relatives, then the others'll draw back. They think that
then they get too much power in the local council. So when they get too much power,
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when they speak about only one side and when the others can't or won't speak, then
the power begins to fall off. That's the way they feel about it in this local council. I
heard many people say, "The council's only for these that works there. It only helps
those that's running the council. It's only for these that's working for that area, those
that got a job in the local CAP program. The CAP people go to that council and the
CAP dictates. They tell them what to do for the program, what to do for this and all
that. That dictation covers up our individual problems in our own area. This is a
community. But the CAP is altogether different again. We're losing our voice by the
power of their education."
So we have only a few going to the local council meetings now. Some of the
Indians feel, "I don't think there's much use to file claims in the local council because
those that go to the council got a job there. They have a job through the local council
and they're worried that they might lose that job if you go say anything. I think they got
a job from the local council. Then the rest feels that if they file for something, I think
they feel, "they'll laugh at me." I feel that they think "He's got a job. That's all right,
that's all they're worried about." But when that job is terminated, they go back and
complain to the local council. Then they're willing to go along with the council. But they
don't think that way when they got a job. There's only termination in that, in some
parts. I see a lot of them that got terminated in there. But they need it, those jobs. It's
the only way for them to live. That's what I thought. I know that the power comes from
the group in the area that's getting the benefits. And those that didn't get any benefits
of the area, they aren't going to make a move to help the council. But the beneficiary of
the area think, "Sure, we'll go to get some more betterment." But when they don't get
the benefits and when they're sunk in too much in debt they say, "I don't think there'll be
any use working with the local council."
[20-34] They feel lost. See? They're sunk in debt. They have too much to pay
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for. The people of the area got too much to pay for, and they don't make enough to pay
for that. So they have to look someplace else for work. Then they just lose faith in their
council. They drop out and they say, "Let it go." And they don't want to hear nothing.
I see a lot of people and I talked to a lot of our neighbors in the county. The
white people say to me, "We're waiting for you guys to do something. If you don't, we
gotta try to help you. We're paying for everything, for betterment."
And they got a hardship because there's so many who aren't pushing enough to
help themselves surrounding them. That's the white man's hardship. This Cass Lake
area is a big county, that's a big county. Itasca has quite a county. Itasca County has
a lot of Indians there that need work too, as well as the white people. A lot of the white
people are needy too, see? So how can we work together? How can we work together
when the government, the federal, is holding one hand and the state is ready to work
on the other hand? Sure, we go by the Minnesota state law. But the Federal holds me
by the hand. So I'm fenced in. The State is helping, but who'd pay the State? It's the
taxpayers! What are we paying in this area? We pay taxes. How much do we pay?
Nothing. The local's got to understand that. Our neighbors, that's white people, got to
understand that. They have to work with us. if they're able to work with us. I think it'd
[be] better [for] the Indians to go to his neighbor as a group to work in the area he lives
in. I'm talking about the area you live in. You can work with your neighbor if you want
to. But you can't work with your neighbor if you're going to stay on the other side of the
fence of the reservation, if you're reserve. The white cannot go in there on the
reservation but still he can help you by getting big industries in here. [20-35] But I go
out there and they tell me "Sure you got a community action program up there. You
have money appropriations on the reservation. Why don't you work over there?"
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1. Whites
Pollution/White hunters coming in
There were turtles and all kinds of animals there. I've been through that. This is
a great country that was given to us, given to the people. Why don't we have that any
more? Why doesn't that nature have that in them now?
Now we have chemicals in the river, water pollution. The motors used to cover
the water with oil. That's what it was. There was not enough feed, and too many
floods. There were floods in our days, but there was fast water too. But we had to
consider people down below. We don't want their hay crops to get ruined, and we
wanted hay crops, so we had governors put on the river to balance it. We had
commissioners that would try to work together. So we got along very well.
Oh, this country was a great thing to live in! Everybody was happy all the time.
That was something, and I often think of that. Days go by when I want to see that.
Then fall comes. Hunting begins. Then that was fun. And the good hunter used to
make out very well. Then the Whites came in. They wanted to learn that stuff. Some
of them don't know the country. We had a chance to guide, to make a few dollars from
them. Sure, they had it to spend. And it's a great sport this guiding, as a working
guide. Pretty soon the Whites know all about it, they know these tricks. It didn't take
long 'cause they write it up on the books. They know what to do. Those days the
Whites didn't know, the angles.
[5-25] The settlers were very careful when they came in. They were very careful; there
were Indians up here. They didn't want to trespass on Indian land. They would get an
Indian guide to show them the way of lots of the sports, and they enjoyed that. They
got along very well. They got along very well. And we were happy to meet people that
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live a different life than we did. We talked to them; many of us talked to them. And
they felt for us too.
When the White people first came in this country, they felt for the Indians -- I
know, I guided on Six Mile Lake for one concern from Minneapolis. They felt for the
Indians, and I know very well they still do. They still do. We were glad to have them
visit us for that short time. And they always said they'll come back. Many of them
came back to us. Many, many came back to us and asked us, "Where's John?
Where's Joe? Where's Paul?" Oh, we had fun! We had friends!
So that's what makes for betterment. They get a cleaner idea of this area. They
spoke well about the Indians. And then the Sportsman Clubs came is, and they had a
lot to say about the area; they had a lot to say for us up here. They helped to protect
the wild life of this area. They held it for a long, long time. Then the Isaac Walton
League and all them set in, and then the state took over some parts. It's all right.
We're getting quite a few coming in. They like that life. I don't blame them; they enjoy
that life. We still have friends come up here from way done below. [5-26] And they
spend a lot of money to get up here, and they spend a lot of money just for a piece of
meat. They spend a lot of money for wild game and to enjoy that outing. Most of them
just want the outing; they want the atmosphere. Oh, that was fun! It's a sport life,
friendly--and you laugh. They get the Indians to show them the country. We just put
them on the stand and drive deer to them. When the deer comes through they get
shooking up, and the Indian looks at them. He sees how he's well-shooking. They get
buck fever. "He misses! He was looking at the deer, but he wasn't looking at the gun."
Ah, gee! But now quite a few of the hunters are trained to be [a] sharp shot. And
they're very often good when they come up here. That, that's the trouble. They're
sharp shots. You can't miss when you get them in those scopes. They have to do
something to get that deer. That’s what they’re here for. They want to say they shot
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them themselves. But through a scope? It's a great country, ya. In the brush country
up here. I don't believe that a scope or special sight amounts to anything.
I know an experienced hunter, well experienced, a sharp shot-shot. [5-27] He
says, be sure to look right down the barrel and you'll be all right. I tried that too. It
works. "Just look right down the barrel. You'll get 'em. Look right along the barrel, and
you got 'em." Sights and scopes are for a long distance. A lot of them surprised me
how they could shoot through those scopes.
After you boys leave after deer hunting then we sit around and talk. We tell them
about the group we were with. We tell them, "Boy that one guy really shoot. He really
knows his gun." And then they want to buy new guns.
That's a big thing to be a sharp shot. Well, those that come up here are trained.
They're trained to know how to handle a gun. They are very careful when they came
up. Those that came up for the first time, I think were very careful with their guns. That
is the main thing. They got the deer. Gee!
I know lots of friends that I don't think would be able to get in the woods again.
They're pretty old and I don't think I'll ever see them hunt again. But sometimes I may
see them--you don't know about that. Some of these other hunters who come up here
all look the same to me. Same with the Whites: the Indians look the same to them.
[5-28] Ya. It's a great sport. So you can see I lived a life. I tried everything. I tried
everything that was fun. It was a great sport. And I was glad that I knew enough to talk
a little English. I'm glad I was willing to talk with them anytime they asked me a
question. I'd answer them as much as I know how. That way they felt trusted. They
felt trusted when they can hear somebody talking.
A lot of our Indians didn't talk much; they didn't say much. They would like to
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talk, but they didn't know much English. They were friends, a lot of them, to the
hunters, but they didn't say much. But they thought the White man was all right, by his
action, by working with them.
The old camps and hunting trips were great things. But now we have everything
modern, everything. They have scopes [and] high powered guns. The game has a
poor chance.
It's a great thing. When hunting season is on you want to buy a license because
you know nobody bothers us when we have a license.
TR - HOW, HOW, HOW LATE WAS THAT?
PB - Oh, that was in the 20s, I mean that was in 1918. Way back in Kalamazoo they
had it earlier. But I'm talking about myself. They had that a-going some other places,
but especially my family was slow in advancing themselves. So we finally learned by
the background of the others our color. We were trying to get ahead too, you know. So
we had enough for a living anyhow. Families kept getting bigger, in my family, see? So
I left home, went out to do sawmill work. Sawmill work, I enjoyed that too, sawmill
work. I worked for the J. Neils Lumber Company. That's where I was talking about, the
J. Neils Lumber Company. They use us good there. And then we got the practice of
going to North Dakota. And that was good money in North Dakota during harvesting
time. They all beat it for North Dakota. They would drop their work and go wherever
there was more money, you know. They figure that they made good. Some of them
came back with a hundreds of dollars, you know. They would go and stay with the one
threshing outfit. Oh, I enjoyed that! There was no modern hotels, there was no modern
places. In my time we had to sleep in the barns. But still we were healthy. We would
get up in morning, and have plenty to eat. We would work for different ones. We would
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talk. Oh, how these boys enjoyed that. I know they did because I meet a lot of them
now. They enjoyed that! It was a life! And there's lot more to my life besides this. Lots
more that I enjoyed. I had a lot of friends all times. You could see now, Tim, that I'm
so busy with friends, that I don't know just where to go first.
Written in on the side: We were looking at other races but what we were mostly
interested in was in learning from the people right here in Minnesota.
oh-day-šii-no-wIn = that’s his family
2. Working (with Whites)/education
As I said before, I would have had a little education, but I had trouble with my
eyes, and defection with a hand. [20-A-4] So, I was a very slow learned. But what I
knew, what I learnt, I learnt just by my experience, through what I went through and
what I saw. I often wish I knew more, but I think I knew enough to get by with both the
Whites and Indians. I worked with the Whites in the woods as a lumberman. I worked
with them. And they always learned me, helped me, showed me, how to do what I was
supposed to do. I felt happy to know my job, and I like timberwork, sawmill work, other
stuff. When I went into timberwork, saw-lumber work, I knew--predner knew--what the
grade of lumber is, practically. I worked on the trimmer in the mill. I worked on the
timber cutting; I know how the timber's supposed to be cut, in my time. Anyhow, adding
that, my foreman said that everything was ok. By proving that, I was always given a
job. So that maybe my job was done well. So I got along very good. Well that's the
same with education. You see, you have to learn, you have to practice what you are
learnt to work on. And when you practice what you are learnt to work on then you'll
become better at it. If you’re in the professional class you’ll become interested and it
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becomes natural to you that you could answer the request of your work at anytime.
And when the works gets rough, you have to use your own head and study out how
you’re going to do it. It isn't easy. There's working that you have to go through which
has rough spots. So if you try [to do the] the best, use your own judgment, you'll do
well at the times it gets rough. Then there's a time again where everything goes along
well, smooth, but there'll be breakdowns, like your machine, like your saws don't work
right. You'll have to make them work good; it's easier on your work then, and it does a
neater job. Your machine, any implement, if it works good, it works on your mind good
too and you do a better job. That's in all fields; you have to keep up your machine and
your work. Then you'll do a better job. You know how because you're experienced. It
takes time to become experienced, but when you practice it you become experienced
about it. [20-A-5A] You'll know it's better, it's getting better all the time. Then you
know where the drawback is; you'll've learned. Well, I'll do better, I'll improve, so that's
in life too. Any work that you do, that you'll send out, do it well. And when it gets rough
I never believed that I should throw it up. No, I don't believe you should say right away,
"Let it go;, I want to try another job." First, try hard to make this work. Make it work!
When your tools don't work very good, you know where your trouble is. If you've got a
dull ax, sharpen it. In my time, see I'm speaking about in my time, that's what we did.
Well, that's the same thing now. If something in the machinery, in the implements,
doesn't work, then fix it. Now we have new things, if you take care of them, and take
care of yourself, I think you're going to like working with them. If you take care of your
equipment it does a better job. And when a man is looking for that kind of a man, [one]
that knows how to take care of things, when a foreman is looking for that division, he
wants a man for his purpose, one that knows what he's doing. And it's very seldom
you'll find a good man that's interested in that line of work, but that's the man they want.
So that's what it's come to. You have to know by experience. You have to be read up.
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You have to have an education as well as we did. We didn't know what that tool was.
There were a lot of tools we didn't know how to handle. But we took interest, and after
awhile we knew how to handle can hooks, loading tools, loading chain, toploading
equipment. We had very dangerous work, and we had lots of it at the mills. And we
learnt; it was nothing to us. We know what to do, and it was easier on our minds, and
work was easy. Well that's the way it is with anything. That's the way this country is.
And in this country you have a right to pick out your own line of work, and that's one
good thing. And when you become a professional at, when you are used to that job,
experienced on it, I think you'll never get lost. You'll always have a job. "What line of
work do you do?" That's the first question the employment people will ask. Well that's
a good question, sure. [20-A-5b] If you can prove yourself, you got a job. By proving
yourself they'll ask, "Where did you work?" They have to know that. I know why. They
can't put you in a work that you don't know anything about. They're concerned for
accidents, that's what they're worried about. [20-A-6a] "Do you know something?"
That's what I was asked in the lumber camp. "Do you know something about that job?"
"Yes, I've worked on that job." It didn't take him long to find out if I knew
anything about the job, to find my old foreman, to find the mill where I worked. When
they found it the foreman'd say, "Ya, he's all right." I always got work. That's what that
questionnaire is for. Before you get on the job they want to get a right type of a guy,
one that's been on that job before. That's the same thing as they come. We're talking
about learning from experience. You can understand what I'm driving at. These
experienced guys taught the younger class. The younger class then listened and they
knew how. And they watched how the experienced class did it. That's the way we
learned, in with the leaders of this country. Leaders of our area understood them, the
experienced, the experienced men. And all along the line you have to learn from the
experienced. I don't care what kind of a position that you're driving at, if you're
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experienced, if you're experienced, if you've tried it, and if you see something that's for
the better, you try ii, afterwhile you get somewhere. That's the whole deal. I never
heard anybody say just because I was an Indian they don't want me, they don't want
Indians, or "we got white people workin'." I never heard that. When we went to that job
the frontier says, "Yes, it's yours, if you wanna work." So they learned it. That's the
way I lived. And I think I got along very good. We all got along, Indians and the whites
worked together. They worked together very well. In our area it was good. We worked
together in lumbercamps, in mills--we had sawmills--now they have farms. Of course,
there's a lot of things that we have to understand about farming too. We have to
understand how to use this crop, how to grow it, how we're going to get better with it,
how to make it ahead. To learn we asked the farmer, the neighbor, "How do you do it?
He tells us how he raises the crop, what he does. You do it be taking care of it. That's
a big word. And they had cattle. My folks used to have cattle. They learned us how to
use them cattle. [20-A-6b] They learned us what to do, how to get the cream out of the
milk we sold. We were getting somewhere. We enjoyed it by working together as good
neighbors. And we had something to trade, horses, cows, anything. It was good times
and a good life.
[20-A-7] So that's just the way it went all along the line. So from here on, as I say, you
have to have the education with experience. I think we have to go along with them, we
have to work together. If you can take one word out of experience and one word out of
your better education maybe it'll work good. With experience and with education I think
we can trust things to be better because it's for the better. That's the way it is all along
the line, in the line of life.
3. CAP; Working for Wages; Meetings; Leaders; Jobs
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Chippewa Indian costumes made by Grand Portage Indians under the Works Progress Administration.
Photograph Collection ca. 1938 Location no. E97.22 r2
Negative no. 6662-A
[20-A-10a] After the redevelopment came, [WPA], we went along on a self-government
body. Then after the self-governing body, here comes more redevelopment. Then
came the community action on top. So when the community action went on the top of
this self-governing body, the new housing program come.
[The Community Action Program came in] three years ago [taped 7 Nov 1969],
wasn't it? About three years ago we got together as a community. Then the C.A.P.
[Community Action Program] was in there C.-A.-P. So we were going along at the
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meetings and everybody wondered, "Why ain't we got voices anymore?"
"Well they're educated."
So I asked them, I said, "Why don't you come to the meetings?"
"It's no use."
"Why?"
"They're educated now. They're running the government body of the area."
The development, the Community Action Program [are running it].
"How come?"
"Well, they wanna work with us they say. But when we say anything, they don't
try it. But they're CAP, the ones talking. The Indians ain't talking. When the Indians try
to say something," they said, "All these resolutions that we put in, where are they?"
They ask for them resolutions. And then they set up a local business committee after
that. And then when they set up a business committee, well the business committee
was trying to help, but everybody quit going to the council meetings. Then I asked
them why they don't go. "Well," he says, "I think we're in deeper."
"What do you mean deeper?" You see we got housing. We should have some
industry near-by to make the younger class work here instead of leaving their families
such a long ways off to work in Minneapolis and the Mines. They have to pay for this
transportation. [20-A-10b] By the time he buys a new car and goes that distance to
work and then comes back, maybe his car wears out. And then when it breaks down it
costs him that much more to get to work and back. It's pretty hard to work that way.
That's the way they feel, you see. What they want, I think, is to work somewhere close
by. [20-A-11] There was work here, but they weren't paying enough for the family--
with the prices of food, the gas, the prices of everything going up. [Note: economy
undergoing inflation at this time.] So in this area everything was going up. It caught up
to them. It's just that they didn't have the finance to keep a-going where the others are
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striking for higher wages and everything. Because we couldn't strike, we couldn't make
a move. We had to take what they give us, that's what I mean. I mean we had no
voice. We're not unionized. We're organized all right, maybe, but we don't work
together. If we worked as a group, maybe we'll be recognized. All clubs, all societies,
all units, when they work together, they have a voice. They have men to represent
them. We have none to represent us. The Indian has none to represent us. There just
aren't enough of us to go for representation. Everybody is just kinda hanging back,
waiting to see what's going to happen. "What is next?" I think they feel, the people of
this area, really feel lost, and they don't know where to go. So I was kind of interested.
Then I became old, aged too [i.e., on old age pension] and I worked with them,
the RBC. I became old aged. I felt that I should keep quiet and let them do it. I'm
retired, but they're still asking me, "Don't let us down. Don't let us down. Work with
us." But I don't know where to work with. I don't know who's going to work for me: the
community? The board of governing body? Or which representatives? I don't even
know my representatives anymore. But these Business Committees that we have tried
hard to work with the people. They help discuss. I think I trust, the way I feel now, I
have trust in these Indian Business Committeemen that we had now. I think they're
very good men. I think they're doing well. I was told that they're not doing right, but I
think they're doing right. They invite me to their meetings and I heard them. They talk
for the area they work for.
[20-A-12] Well that's very well because I didn't have a voice there. That was a
Business Committee meeting. They invited me to listen in. There's nothing wrong;
there's nothing wrong that I could see. When they meet the officials up there, they
thresh it out pretty good, and they talk it over. So this talk is just the smear that they
get out in the field. But you get that anywhere in anything. Somebody's always going
to say you don't do right. What they're trying to do is to help the people of the area
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which they represent. It's on a majority vote. And I trust them. I think there's quite a
few who feel the same as I do. And I think these Business Committeemen are working
right, are working for the betterment, because it looks good. Now I look at the other
side: I think we're the ones who lack after all in what they are trying to do. They have
proved themselves. It took quite a while to write up the whole statement for the last
two, three years. [see copy of statement] And we have statements out. The Business
Committee has statements which tell what they have tried to do to prove themselves. I
think they did well by that statement. And it reads again, from now on, the statements
will be there. Well, that's a good point, you see. That way they won't be lost.
I think, I feel, the local community leaders get in a group by themselves. That's
what I see now. I told them at the meeting: "You cannot do anything without talking it
over with one another. We got a board here on the table. This chairman has a
secretary. If you don't talk, if you don't bring up your problems, bring up something to
work with; I don't think he has the power to go ahead." So when we don't say anything
in the meetings or vote on things in the meetings, to vote on for the best for what we
discuss, what we bring in, I don't think the Business Committee can do anything
because they don't know what we want. [20-A-13a] They're ready to work if we bring
up our problems. So we have nothing to complain about, no excuse I mean to say,
because we have a set-up to help us. They want to hear our points and problems, the
local. They want to hear our feels [feelings], where the problem is. If we don't work on
our problem as an individual, if we don't bring in things for the best, for the young
children, it's going to be pretty hard to make any improvements. It's going to be a
downfall. Nobody's going to do anything. They can't. Because if the chairman goes
ahead on his own, maybe there isn't enough of them to back him. So, this party, the
chairman, and the Council, they're looking for advice and cooperation. And when you
don't go to these council meetings it's going to make a hardship in that area. I know
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that. That's what the drawback is now. We have nobody to blame but yourself.
4. JOBS
The jobs are too far from home. The Indians can't work together. Maybe one
guy'll have a job here. These guys that's working on this CAP program they want to
work on a small scale on income. They get along. But those with a big family can't do
that. That's where the drawback is. He makes some money with a small family. With
a big family, he can't make enough money, he has to go out and work somewhere else.
So there's not enough there to discuss. Our chairman has the same interest. He's
thinking about all these boys that left this area, all my Indians that left this area to get a
job, to seek work for higher pay, to take care of the family. And these with a small
family are just barely getting by. I don't think we'll get anywhere with this. In this
community, we have housing, and they have to be paid for. So how are they going to
pay for them when they have to go back and forth wearing out their money? And then
they only got certain weeks to work. If they had a program in this city, in the nearby
village, if they provided enough to take care of their families, and had enough to be able
to have protection, with enforcement of our laws, rules, rulings, I think it'd make it
better. [20-A-13b] But we haven't enough money to circulate for betterment.
[20-A-14] It's a drain. There's nothing here. We have only low income, and it's very
low. People here, they just can't make it. There are times that there's timber work
here. But they call for only a certain amount of timber. Now they're using other
methods, plastic and all that stuff. We have no chance on the reservation. That's
what's slowing down our area. The timber problem is gone. The problem is that the
timber demand is gone. The timber lumber, that's gone too. They have to have
different building material, material that is fireproof, airproof, storm proof. They need
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chemical material that'll keep. That slows my area down. These people, these boys,
have no production. They have no production because there's nothing to produce.
There's no value in the production that we have. There's no value in it. So with that
chemical in those buildings, the best, that outvalues our production. The valuation is
there in the other products. The big contracts, the big contractors, sell better material
because they fix better materials. They have chemical products and all that stuff,
plastic board, and all that stuff. But they have the factories far away from here. On this
reservation we have nothing. That's what I mean. When they go there to work they
leave their poor families here. Everybody wants to be with their family. At times they
want to be with their family, to know that they have a family, and to love their family.
That's why they get married. And no industry, nothing nearby. When the surrounding
people can't hardly make it, how are the Indians going to make it? We have mines,
sure, but they close down. We have mines, sure, but these mines have people with low
income in their area too. They have lots of people in the mines. Some of those mines
have shut down, yes. All right, they draw their rocking chair money; they draw
unemployment. Now, we're right in the middle, this reservation, Itasca county. In
Itasca county we have a reservation, we call it.
The Cass Lake area has a big reservation too. Cass Lake has a big county,
Cass County. What production do they have there? Not much, but they have a lot of
taxpayers. That country is sandy. They call it "no production land."
[20-A-15] It only has forestry and reforestation. They recommend reforestation. But
the only seasons which are productive are the wild rice seasons. Well, who's making
the money out of the resorts? There's no more money in the resorts. There used to be
good money in the resorts. The taxpayer on these resorts are suffering just as bad as
the Indians. They're suffering without work. They're spending all the money they
make. There's no industry there, there's nothing nearby, there isn't enough there.
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Where we have material maybe we could product stuff too. But we need an outlet first.
But we don't have any outlet. They want to accept other areas, other states' stuff.
They accept all the material from the other states and then forget this area. We have
iron, we have stone, we may have chemical here too to work with. But we have to have
better education. And that education could find a betterment, it could find out how to
develop with the industry, with the people, and then maybe we would have more work.
As I hear, when you go south to Minneapolis or anywhere, anyone can go to work
because they have big industries. All my Indians have a job there, but they still are
Indians. What I mean is that the Ojibway Indians from this reservation have to go down
and work, but they still live up here as a reservation. We have no industry. When they
come up here and try to live in this area in which they build their homes, they stay a few
days with their families, and then they say "No, I can't make it here. I gotta go back."
Some of them lock their places because they can't pay for them. They go down there
or anywhere there's work. Sure they work, but here's them nice homes, here, which
they leave. The cost drives them out because it's too much to pay. There are no
industries where they should be working. Their work is too far from home, and it's too
hard to drive back and forth. That drives them out. I think a lot of them have jobs, and
a lot of them would like to live in these houses, but they just can't make the request on
their rents and pay everything else on their living, because they don't make enough
around here.
[20-A-16] That's what I was told. They tell me that. I said, "Why do you leave your
place? Why do you go?"
They said, “I just can’t meet the rent because I got a family.”
Then I look at myself. "What does it cost me to live?" Then I look at the people
that have big families that have to live. They have cars and everything. Without a car
you're just lost if you have to work. So that's the whole deal. That's what I think. I think
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if we don't do anything about this, it's going to get worse.
7. Welfare/Treaties/Work
[11-19] Later on the Indians hired [elected] me again.1 "You're not in that council," they
said. "You were always for the Indians. You were always for the Indians, the
full-bloods. You are a member of the Mississippi Band; that's our equal. But we have
too many that were settled in White Earth coming in."
"Well, they're working," I said. "They get together. They work. They use the
law. We don't work; we don't have to work, because we're believing the administrator's
promise that within a fifty-year period they were going to settle with us. But the General
Council was asked for a twenty-year extension on that settlement--which they agreed
to. That fifty-year treaty was overthrown. Who overthrew that? Did Uncle Sam throw
that out? Whose fault is that? There's a big claim there, too. They're throwing that
around in the Government. Who did that? Did they do it within the law, or without the
law? Did they make their treaties in law? Did they make their resolutions in law?
That's both ways of looking for it. You have to be a lawyer to figure that one out."
That's something buried in our affairs. That's causing a hardship right there.
Now the Indians' State welfare is doing more. They're helping us right now because it
takes too long to approve anything in the law in the House in Washington.
[11-20] It takes at least six months just to get the ball rolling. The welfare stepped in
here during the meantime, and now the taxpayers are feeding us. The welfare is feeing
us. The welfare is taking care of the Indians very well. The Minnesota Department of
1 Cf., “North Dakota’
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State Welfare is helping the Indians very well. They help them along by feeding them
and helping them to provide through the winter. They even paid for their hospital bills
at times.
Why do they have to do that? Because the Government holds us back, it holds
up our land claims and money. They don't leave it go. Who's going to get that money?
On our old claims, to our old Indians, the Administration said, "When the time comes
we'll give you that money."
Huh!
"Are they going to give it to somebody else?"
"We don't give it to somebody else. We give it to you. We give it indirectly to
you, the individual, as an Indian. See, you get northern Minnesota welfare."
Then we already got it through there? Did they give our money to the Minnesota
welfare?
But now what does the taxpayer want? What does the Minnesota welfare want?
They aren't going to give that money away for nothing. What are they going to get out
of it? What do we have to put up for the welfare? What security? They have to have a
little security for the money they're giving out. That's where that lien law comes in. I
figure that if they build good houses here and if we don't make a showing to keep them
up, if they don't approve the improvements we're making, if we don't work with the law
enforcement to enforce our laws, if we don't force our councilmen to make any
showing, then gradually the Minnesota welfare is going to come in and take over. If we
fail they'll take over--I think.
[11-21] On the other hand the whites can do anything by Congress. Nowadays, the
Representatives can do anything they want for the white people and the Indians. You
know that. You see that they do anything they can do. You bet. They can take over
and that's what will happen if we don't work hard to push our claims through--think.
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That's my view of it. Naturally, it will come to that. We have to have money to own
anything. If we don't make money we're going to squack to the Welfare again: "Give us
some more money, we're hungry. We have no work...."
You see, these pellet plants [taconite plants] aren't going to provide work all the
time. They're going to be automatic within a few years, and all this employment's going
to drop. The railroad now has its automatic machinery and doesn't hire as many men
as they used to. Labor!, opportunity for Jobs! is going to drop later on and the
Minnesota welfare guys will come in. There's money there. They have all kinds of
money. Each and every one in this state pays taxes--income tax, income tax, income
tax. Geeze, the Minnesota Welfare people are the richest people there is. They give
out a lot of money and that money has to make a showing. They have to indicate what
they're spending that money for. They're working for the next generation, so they can
have some security. The Indians of this generation have no security. They can't get
any money out of the bank when they have no security. You have to have security to
get money. You first have to put in something [you] make before you can get
something out. I figure later on in years, boy you watch, the Indians will have enough
security to get somewhere. I may not see that, but the times will change.
[11-22] Getting the Ball Club Community Hall, I think, was one of the best things to
happen around here in a long while. It's helping to put better education in this
community, it's helping to improve leaders, and it's helping leaders to make a good
showing in the area. The white people'll be glad that we made something of it locally.
In the past, they helped us, they fed us and everything. They fed us; the taxpayer fed
us. Yes, they fed us in this community. Boy, those Indians are doing well now.
They're taking care of this own affairs now! Sure, the whites will go along with helping
us if they see we're responsible. Pretty soon we'll get off of their money and we'll pay
our way as we go. We have to. They can't sit there in the reservation saying, "We
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don't have to work. We're on Indian land. There's no enforcement. We don't have to
work. We're on Indian land. We don't have to pay a damn thing. When winter comes
welfare is gonna feed us." That's the way if looks like to me now. Certainly, you can't
make anybody work if they don't want to work. That's a hard situation. I thought of that
and that's why I layed off from the Council. I don't want to get any blame of nothing. I
don't want to get any blame from my people. We have problems because there isn't
enough money in circulation here. To get enough money there has to be factories.
There has to be production here. There has to be general production enough for each
and for all. There has to be big plants. There has to be an airbase [airport].
[11-23] We have to work with foreign countries, working by planes and everything.
You have to have building shops, big shops to work in. We have to have a permanent
employer, year-round. We aren't going to make it with this seasonal work. We have
too long a winter to make it on seasonal work. If there's going to be year-round jobs,
then we can have something. We could expect something. Ya. Why, isn't that point
sound?
[It won't be easy,] no. But gradually, later on, we might feel it, if the government
helps us out. Well, if we don't see any improvements, it won't be the government's
fault, it won't be the fault of the governing body of the House and it won't be the
welfare's fault. If we don't improve our situation it will be the fault of the people of this
area, because they can't make a showing. If we can't or don't work it is going to
weaken us. When you're weakened they have to help you; they have to feed you then.
But they won't help you for nothing. You have to pay for it with some type of security.
They have to see something in sight before they'll help you. They'll figure, "Well, he got
a big claim, we'll get some more money out of him. When he gets his claim we'll handle
it." The Indian will never get anything out of it. "You got a big claim. We'll get some
more of that big claim,” they'll figure. They'll take a certain percent. I feel as though
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when the administration went through here they deduced, "We'll administrate your
affairs. We'll take a percentage for administering your affairs and so much of a
percentage will go into the Tribe."
[11-24] "We'll sell the land, we'll rent the land. If they can't pay for this prime land
somebody else'll buy it." There is so much interest in that money. All kinds of things
are in our claim: iron ore, timber, minerals, and everything. So much of that money
from the sale of these will go into the Tribe and so much will go to those administrating.
See? We watch that. I think the employees get quite a bit, quite an amount of money,
and somebody has to pay them, too.
One reason a lot of people don't like to bother the Indian Bureau is because if
they do there'll be a lot of them without a job. When the fifty-year period for land claims
settlement was up the Indian Bureau said we weren't ready. They were going to close
the Indian hospital because [the Indians] weren't ready to take it over. I didn't favor
closing the Indian hospital at that time because I didn't think we were ready to take it
over ourselves. If you give them that claims money they wouldn't know what to do with
it. Like this guy over here. I asked him, “What do you think? Do you think the Indians
should get that money now? Do you think they would keep cattle and buy machinery
for farming?"
"I don't know," he says. "I don't think they should give them the money. Some
of them will make good use of it and some won't. I think they'll be broke within a few
days, because they drink. And because they're on tribal land they ain't got enough land
to train. This ain't productive land. This sand soil is not enough for production.
[11-25] All that grows is jackpine and quackgrass. See? That's the way it is, at least
that's the way I'd feel about it. That's my view of it."
We have to make a showing with what we have now. The younger generation
has to work with the Indian Bureau and then they'll get whatever they need. If they
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want an allotment of so much money a month, if they want to borrow money, all right,
but they have to make a showing that they got a job to pay for it. If they don't want to
work for it and pay for it, why they'll be stuck with what they have right now.
Title MinersDescription Miners; railroad track; horse pulling equipment; equipmentDate of Creation 1905?
General SubjectLaborBusiness and industrySocial issuesAnimals
Specific SubjectMinersMining equipmentHorsesRailroad tracks
Local Subject Miners; railroad track; horse pulling equipmentState MinnesotaCountry United StatesContributing Institution Northeast Minnesota Historical CenterRights Management contact NEMHC for permission to use imageLocal Identifier 484.2
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MDL Identifier umn01133.tif
TitleMining laborers beside train DescriptionCrowd socializing beside Winston-Dear Co. train, engine #113 Date of Creation1900 - 1914 General SubjectBusiness and industrySpecific SubjectMinersClothing & dressShovelsIron miningMine railroad carsRailroad locomotivesLocal SubjectIron mining; Hibbing, MN; Railroad cars; Miners; Winston-Dear Company; Minnesota City/TownshipHibbingMinnesota CountySt. LouisStateMinnesotaCountryUnited StatesParent Collection1990.1948; Stanley Olson Photographic Collection Contributing InstitutionIron Range Research Center, Chisholm, Minnesota Rights ManagementUse of this image is governed by U.S. and international copyright law. Please contact the Iron Range Research Center, Chisholm, MN for more information in regard to this image, online at http://www.ironrangeresearchcenter.org/photo/index.htm Local Identifier00001155-rf
A long-range program is going to call for some improvement. That's part of your
long-range program. They got you on that. Someday the mines are going to give out.
The underground mines are all right, but the open pit mines won't use much labor later
on. They used to use hundreds and hundreds of men in my time when I worked in the
mine. I worked in the mine one winter. In that crew, on track, just the track gang, I bet
there were about fifty or sixty of us right in one bunch. I worked over there in the
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twenties, 1921 (xxx?). I worked for the Oliver Mining Company, over by
Coleraine-Bovey.
[11-26] I went into tracking [making trackbeds]. By god, you worked there, them days.
You have to work with a bar in your hand, and with a pick and a shovel. That was
working. They were really operating in there. We leveled for the tracks. They had a
big steam shovel, a big steam shovel, to help us out.
Miners and car in the pit, Tower-Soudan Mine.Photograph Collection 1890
Location no. HD3.5 p4 Negative no. 6011
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Large group of miners at Tower-Soudan Mine.Photograph Collection 1890
Location no. HD3.5 p5 Negative no. 6012
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Miners in the pit of the Tower-Soudan mine.Photograph Collection 1890
Location no. HD3.5 p11 Negative no. 6010
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Miners playing cards in their camp, Coleraine.Photograph Collection 1906 Location no. HD3.51 p42
Negative no. 29994
But later on in years everything's going to be automatic. The engine will take
over.
Geeze, I was surprised about a year and a half or two years ago when I went
down there. I took a ride down there and all them guys were out of work and all them
mines were closed--pred'near all of them were closed, just a few mines were open.
And I asked the party I was riding with--he was a miner--I said, "How come these mines
are closing when there's a big demand for iron ore?"
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"No," he said, "Iron ore ain't worth nothing. Labor's too high. Some of these
companies are going to foreign countries where the labor's cheap. And they're getting
Texas-Mexico and Mexico labor that's cheaper. Foreign labor's cheaper. The
companies can't make it here, the labor's too high. The labor's too high here because
the union holds it up too high. The companies can't pay that union now."
[11-27] That sounds reasonable to me. Their iron ore wasn't worth nothing. I
think there'll be so much iron order that the price will go down. I heard they were
getting too much, or enough, iron ore from across the pond [ocean]. They can get all
they want from across the pond, and they stockpile lots, too. But I see they sold a lot of
cars. They must use a lot of iron in there. [laughs] Nobody will drive an older model
now; they'll put it off of the road. They want you to get a brand new car, and they cost
thousands and thousands of dollars. Geeze, we don't have that kind of money to drive
a new car in this [part of the] country. Nobody has. If they have, why what are they
doing way up here in the north in the winter? They must go south to Florida to work
during the winter. They aren't lazy.
Oh, you see all kinds of things. Ya, that's my way of life. That's how I got on the
Council. From that time on, why I was on my own. I never bothered them after I got off
the Council. But I will help if I see they're trying to do anything good. For example, that
community hall is good for the kids, the younger generation. And we have a school, a
good living, and a chance for the kids to learn right to home. We didn't have that
chance when I was home. Now they have a good chance. They should have good ball
players, good football players, good boxers, good wrestlers.
[11-28] They'll have a good education. They probably go away to big cities and work,
like they do now. There is work [in the big cities], but they won't stay. That's the
trouble. They're hired in other places. They try hard to help people through relocation;
they put them on a relocation. Relocation paid their way to go out there, and got them
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a job, and told them to learn a job. They stayed there for a year, year and a half or two,
and they were right back here. That was rough for the government. That was rough
for the workers. That was rough for the man that was expecting them to do better.
They went right back here. They got back to the wigwam. It was like in the olden days
when we used to say, "Waah, this boy is going through high school. Well!! He's going
through high school? Aah! He'll go out to the world and take care of himself amongst
the white people."
"No, he'll come back and stay right with his tribe. He'll be right in the wigwam
again. He'll come back and look for his wigwam again." That's the way they do it. Lots
of them who were well educated came right back. They like this Indian way of life.
What's the use of giving them an education? It costs a lot of money for an education.
Ya, costs a lot of money to educate people now. If they give them an education, the
way I feel, they should give them a job. I don't see why they want to come back here.
There's no industry here. There's no packing plant, there's no big ship-building yards.
[11-29] There's no industry to work in like they have in the South. They have better
locations and better weather down south. The winters here are too long. That's what
knocks us, up here. Why, geeze, when it gets forty below, what are you going to do?
Storms are bad in the winter and they just tie up the plant.
So, for my part, I think I went through the world. I went through life, and as I
went through I just lost faith in getting an education. I think I lost my chance for an
education. At least I think I lost my chance for a better education. I tried everything
and all I found was a lot of hard work. But I made an effort to keep me in good shape.
Work doesn't hurt anybody. Ya. Work doesn't hurt anybody. It does you good. It's
true. It's good for you to work. Ya, if you just sit around, sit around, you'll lose faith in
the whole works. You'll get to the point where you don't care. Then the others will see
you and they'll want to do the same because it looks like an easy life. A lot of them
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won't work anymore. But, of course, they don't expect the old ages to go out and work
now. The younger class should be utilizing that body, helping to make a betterment in
the area where they live in. You know, when you work it makes you feel good and
when I see a hard-working man, gee, it makes me feel good.
[11-30] I like to talk to the working men, and when a man isn't doing anything or
doesn't like to work, I just don't dare to say anything because it might make him sweat.
[laughs] Ya, work is a great thing. I like work. I like work. I had a chance to get on this
work [get a job] down here when this project came on. [Nelson amendment?] The way
I feel, for my part of it, I think when you got enough you should let somebody else work.
Married people with families should be working there if they want to work. I'm not going
to get in there and work because I'm all alone and single. It doesn't take so much to
keep me going. But married people with families have to work. With big families they
have to work every minute--hauling logs out of the woods, working there trying to make
a living. Why don't they give them a job on those projects? I wouldn't be in their way.
A lot of times when I was in the woods I heard, "Why don't they hire the married men?
They need jobs like we have."
The boss says, "Well, they've had their chance. They won't work. Some won't
not all, but some won't work. Just about the time I need a certain man he'd go. He
quits."
No, I think I'm enjoying life now. I won't bother them; I leave them alone. But if
they wanted help, I'd give them help. I can't do much but every little help they get
makes things easier.
That's my line of life.
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