Is it true that former Marillion vocalist, Fish,was auditioned?No, he didn't, not that I know of. His name cameup because you discuss everyone and anyonewho's out there. But I don't think he was right forthe job, for this thing.

Why did he get the job?We just liked his voice. I could imagine him singing oursongs, you have to be able to imagine that. We heard a lotof voices, there was one guy who sounded a lot like Phil[Collins], but then you sort of thought, what's the point?

I don't really know, I never really know what's going on.We haven't even really thought about what we're goingto do over the next year. There's nothing planned at themoment, but there never really is. It's a little tough forGenesis at this moment in time, actually - for a lot of theolder acts, to be honest. I can't complain, it's been 30 yearsof plain sailing, but getting no airplay makes whateveryou do a little harder. Introducing Ray [Wilson] to theband meant that people really had to hear it. I thought hedid a great job, I thought he was fantastic live, too.

As a Genesis album, what do you think of'Turn It On Again... The Hits'?It's sort of obvious in a way - by definition, a hitsalbum is a hits album. Tony and I did the initiallist, but I bet if you sat down and wrote down 18tracks, that you'd have picked out about 13 or 14of them. It's more of a mass appeal sort of thing,really. The problem one always has is that if

you did a definitive Genesis 'best of: forget the hits bit, then what do youput on it? That's always been our problem; people seem to like differentfacets of Genesis.

Did you have more fun working on the boxed set collection?That was more interesting because '...The Hits' didn't really involve muchfrom us. The boxed set was interesting in that it was a part of the past, my

i eTony Banks has been hinting that after the relative failure of'...CallingAll Stations...~ this 'best of' album might signal the end of Genesis.

Metallica - as MTV,VH-l and an international slew of style andmusic magazines will be only to happy to tell you - havealbum sales in excess of 80 million copies. Everyone likesMetallica.To date, Genesis, winsome, engaging, wholesome,not known for wearing black or banging their heads in fiery

unison, have gone past the 100 million mark without the aid of celebration,metaphorical ticker-tape parades, or a headline in the papers. No oneadmits to liking Genesis.

In the 31 years since their debut album, 'From Genesis To Revelation' (300copies sold and still rising), was stocked in the religious section of mostrecord shops, fortune has favoured a band who, from the distance ofhistory, looked to have been ravaged on all sides by inter-band wrangling,high-profile departures and an abstract notion of musical styles that hasmade them fleeting survivors on a sea of change. Surprisingly for a bandthat wrote songs - presumably straight-faced - with titles like 'Harold TheBarrel: 'Silent Sorrow In Empty Boats' and 'Can-Utility And The Coastliners:they've weathered time's dizzying revolutions remarkably well.

Reflecting on their latest album, the compilation, 'Turn It On Again ... TheHits: which reaches only as far back as the 1973 single,'1 Know What I Like(In Your Wardrobe): the two remaining original members, Tony Banks, 49,and Mike Rutherford, 49, (or Anthony Banks and Michael Rutherford asthey're credited, respectively, on 1970's 'Trespass') are engaging, momen­tarily nonplussed and occasionally forgetful."Did we?" and"l don't remem­ber that" filter intermittently into the air throughout their interviews attheir Hit & Run management offices in Southwest London. Neither bears atrace of rancour or resentment. On the contrary, at one point Banks laughsso much he loses the grip on his story and asks that I reiterate the looseends of his anecdote for him.

Former guitarist Steve Hackett,49, (Stephen Hackett for 'SellingEngland By The Pound') does hisinterview over the phone from TheFarm studios in Surrey a few dayslater, though only for the sake ofconvenience and not because ofsome smouldering tensionbetween him and his former bandmates. History, and a mountain ofpress cuttings, suggests that the airbetween him and Genesis (andBanks, in particular) is heavy withdeceit, crossed words and thelingering suggestion that if youput them in a room togetherthey'd throttle each other.Unfortunately, in terms of this storyat least, it's simply not true any­more. Though Hackett's fairly dis­missive of '...The Hits' collection,especially the reworked version of'Carpet Crawlers: he's still immea­surably proud of the time he spentwith Genesis and, consequently,the work that they did together.

They all reminisce warmly, eachunintentionally making up thespaces left by the other. Put allmembers past and present in a room together, as they did briefly for therelease of last year's 'Genesis Archive 1967-75' boxed set, and you feelthat between them the whole disjointed Genesis story would be told in'all its unwieldy entirety.

Hackett, Banks and Rutherford played and recorded together from ini­tial rehearsals in 1971, through to the summer of 1977, when Hackett leftto pursue a solo career. They were fleetingly reunited for the Six Of TheBest show at Milton Keynes Bowl in 1982 and again in 1998 for aphoto-session and dinner to celebrate the release of the '...Archive...'boxed set. In terms of studio albums, the trio helped create 'NurseryCryme' (1971), 'Foxtrot' ('72), 'Selling England By The Pound' ('73), 'TheLamb Lies Down On Broadway' ('74),'A Trick OfThe Tail' ('76) and 'Wind &Wuthering' ('77). Arguably, 'artistically, if not commercially, it's Genesis'strongest period of work.

18 . CLASSIC ROCK

'1bat was t ehardest ofanyone leaving-I wasn't surethat we'd cany 0 ."Mike Rutherford on thedeparture of originalguitarist Anthony Phillips.

past certainly, that I hadn't really thought about for a long time.

Is it true that Tony Banks toasted all the past members at the reuniondinner and said something to the effect of, "We managed to sack thelot of you?"[Laughsl. It sounds like the kind of thing he'd say. The trouble with thosethings is that you don't think you've aged until you see the others, andthen you realise that that's probably how they all see you. That was a nicedinner, even our original drummer, Chris Stewart, was there. He's justwritten a best-seller. He's a sheep farmer now and he's lead this veryinteresting life in Spain. It's called Driving Over Lemons, it's done terrificallywell, a great success.

I recently saw Yes play a show in LA and they did a fairly rounded 'bestof' set, while Roger Waters has been playing a similar celebratory set ofWaters/Pink Floyd stuff across America. Genesis never really gotcaught up in that nostalgia trip, did they?We have played older stuff, but I suppose we've never gone right back. Wemanaged to drop most of the baggagealong the way, which I think is quite anachievement. We're not playing songs wedid in 1971, which, on the whole, is quite agood thing, I think. Actually, for the lasttour we rehearsed things like 'In The Cage'with Ray, which sounded great, but the setwas getting too long and it was difficult toknow what to do in the end.

Do you ever go back and listen to theold Genesis albums?I haven't done for years. I should do it, I'msure some of those things would stand the test of time, I'm sure somethings don't. I think people have to accept that that's not where I'm at, atthe moment, because I was there then, if you see what I mean...

Jonathan King - who has been credited with discovering the band, andwho actually came up with the name Genesis (he saw them as the'genesis' for his own burgeoning career as a producer) - has beenquoted as saying that if he hadn't listened to your demo tape andhelped you put your debut album together when you were atCharterhouse, that today Tony would be a machinist and you would bea lawyer. Just how influential was he?

I don't think he made us, but he gave us a very important moment. Whatwas it, the summer of '58 or'59? Getting the chance to make an album thatsummer, those things didn't really happen. I think that was a very importantpart of our career, we saw what we could do, the potential that was there.Before then, Anthony [Phillipsl and I were playing in a band doing covers­Yardbirds, the Stones - that's how you learned your chords. We had a bassplayer called Rivers Jobe, great name, he was the first one to leave us, hewent pro with Chicken Shack. He was the first guy to do it, it was veryexciting. But after that we started writing our own songs, which I thinkreally helped the evolution of the band. We had one called 'PennsylvaniaFlickhouse: which I remember we cut somewhere in Putney Bridge.

Presumably the debut album put paid to the idea of staying in school?I was going to go to Edinburgh University to do English. I think that wouldhave been fun, actually. Around that first summer after school we werewriting and recording and I thought,"1 want to do this." But you know whatit's like at that age, you can't think more than nine months ahead. Myparents were fantastic, I'm sure they were thinking, "Oh my God," but they

were great. My dad's a retired naval officer,which was a very different life to mine. Butwhen you see your kid obsessed bysomething - I've seen it in mine - then Ithink it's okay to let them give it a try.

You and Anthony Phillips were friendsthroughout school and the early yearsof the band. Was it a shock when he leftin 19717That was a real shock for me, that was thehardest of anyone leaving, in a sense. Wewere very intense in those days and it was

all or nothing, I wasn't sure that we'd carry on. And Ant was the driving forcebehind the band until then. [Sighsl.I'm not even sure why he left now, hehad glandular fever and he wasn't at all well. He used to get very bad stagefright, he got paranoid about being on stage and forgetting things, he gotvery nervous. You kind of feel that it needn't have happened, I don't knowwhy it did, but it did. Even with everyone who's left the band, I still feel thatone more keenly I think because he was the first one to go. I remember dri­ving back after a gig at Haywards Heath with Peter and talking about it andby the time we'd finished the journey we'd decided to carry on as a band.

When we got Steve [Hackettl in the band, I'd been trying to replace Antbecause I was so close to him, but you can't do that. I was ill one weekend

CLASSIC ROCK' 19

and when I came back, Pete and Tony had auditioned Steve. That wasprobably for the best because I was too biased. Steve was great for theband, all these unusual sounds he had, he was a real lead guitarist.

Your debut US show at the New York Philharmonic Hall in 1972 isrevered as legendary by American fans that witnessed it, but it'salso said that the band weren't happy with it. What are your memoriesof the occasion?We did a warm up gig the night before in Boston, a place called BrandeisUniversity - wow, how did I remember that? Anyway, no one had told usthat in America the electronic cycle was different so the keyboard was asemitone out. Anyway, we busked that one. But I do remember thinkingthat we'd made a complete hash of the New York gig. I got in the lift to goup to the dressing room after the show and I remember just throwing mybass on the floor and thinking, "Oh, what a cock up!" Then Strat [thenmanager, Tony Stratton Smith] told us they loved it and that it had been agreat success. We left there thinking we'd cracked America. Went back fourmonths later to find out that New York had forgotten us and the rest of thecountry never had a clue who we were.

By the end of 'The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway' world tour, in1975, Peter Gabriel had also left. That must have been a tremendousblow to the band?Peter left for a bit during the making of 'The Lamb...' to do some film workwith William Friedkin, who did The Exorcist, then he came back to finish thealbum. So maybe having gone through that and then coming back hadchanged things a little and we were conscious then that things mightchange. You saw the signs, it wasn't simple, but it was no great surprisewhen he did.

To a very real degree, Phil Collins had pretty much left after the 1992tour, hadn't he?It was a gradual thing. We had finished the tour and he'd been doing solostuff for a couple of years and by the time we met up to speak about it Ikind of knew that he wanted to move on, though we hadn't actuallyspoken about it. It'd been twenty-something years, that's a long time. Wethought seriously then that it was the time to knock it on the head. We gotvery close to doing it, in a sense.

So why didn't you?I don't know why we didn't. I still enjoy working with Tony which is a big, bigreason for me to carry on. I like a challenge and if radio hadn't changed theway it changed it might have been a much easier road... [Pause]. I'm juststubborn, I suppose.

that. I like 'Selling England By The Pound; it's my favourite album in terms ofguitar playing, I like 'Foxtrot' and 'Nursery Cryme; they were albums wherethe band was working well as a band. I like that about the boxed set too, Ithink the live version of'The Lamb...' on there is better than the recordedversion, in terms of the Genesis experience.

What do you think of the new 'best of' collection?I've sat through it, it's very guitar-light. I wasn't overawed by it or by TrevorHorn's production on the reworking of 'Carpet Crawlers: I did play a lotmore on it when we did it again recently, more than has appeared in thefinal version, I think a lot of it's ended up on the floor. I don't think the bandare on it enough, that's my take on it. I was a bit peeved that I'd bothered,actually.'1 Know What I Like' sounds like there's a band playing on it, I prefer

Steve ackettThat seems strange considering the tour was beset by technicalproblems and overshadowed by the news that Peter was going toleave the band at the end of it.I suppose. We didn't even make the last date on that tour, Peter's last gigwith the band. There weren't even time for tears, it felt as though themoment had been snatched away from us. I was very fond of Pete, still am.His leaving the band was a tremendous loss at the time. It lost its radical,experimental edge. It all became a bit more streamlined after that.

Talking of streamlined, do you remember the first time Peter shaved

Six Of The BestIn the summer of 1982, Peter Gabriel helped present

WOMAD's first ever festival. Unfortunately, the eventwas ahead of its time and organised with little

commercial consideration leaving the organisers withdebts in excess of £200,000. In order to help, the Collins­Rutherford-Bank-Hackett-Gabrielline-up of Genesisreformed for a one-off sold-out show performed in thepouring rain at Milton Keynes Bowl.

Mike Rutherford: "Was it '82? You tell me. That wasgreat fun, I remember being quite adamant that weshouldn't film or record it because it was great for thenight, but we were under-rehearsed and a bit rougharound the edges. I'm sure the fans didn't have any

problems with it. You need a reason to do that sort of thing and we did. Didn't Pete comeonto the stage in a coffin? Good old Pete."

Steve Hackett: "I was in Brazil at the time, my dad called me up and told me they weredoing it. I just thought it would be nice for all of us to be involved. It was great to be upthere onstage with them. The bottom line is that we've all written at least one great songthat has moved us. I think we've all done that for each other. I actually feel very proud tohave been a part of it, a part of the band, to have influenced it and been influenced by it. I

20 • CLASSIC ROCK

still hear drum parts now and I wonder if Phil [Collins] would like it, that sort of thing. ! flew3000 miles to do the encores, it was all a freebie for Peter. I remember seeing the bootlegof it afterwards and it had a gatefold-sleeve with all these very nice pictures. It soundedlike it might have come off the desk. Maybe we should have put that out ourselves... "

his head into what I think you could probably best describe as an'inverted mohican'?[Laughs]. I remember turning up ~t Heathrow, I don't know where we weregoing, and he'd cut it like that. To be honest, he just looked incrediblyglamorous to me. Peter was a star even then.

Didn't you find out about the boxed set accidentally, through Peter?Yes, he told me it was happening. I was working on the 'Genesis Revisited'album project and I asked Pete if I could have a go at a re-doing a song we'dnever really finished called 'Deja Vu; and he told me about it then. So I goton the phone and asked if I could come down and fix up any of the carcrashes I'd originally recorded, you know, tart it up. I was a bit annoyed thatI hadn't been asked, but I'm sure they weren't too happy that I was doingthe 'Genesis Revisited' thing. I didn't want to be the party pooper, I justwanted to gatecrash it a bit.

It would have been nice to be asked, but I've since realised that if you'reinvolved with stuff from your past that you end up being the curator ofyour own past. I've been in denial for the past 20 years in a way, spendingall that time going off in another direction.That's why I was so pleased thatwhen I did the classical album,'Midsummer Night's Dream' [with the RoyalPhilharmonic Orchestra, in 1997t one, that it did so well and, two, that theclassical world was happy to have me. It's taken an awful long time tobe able to go into my local HMV and see my name among the racks andI'm very proud of that. I just want to makemusic that moves me, as long as it's honest,that's the point.

Do you think the remaining members ofGenesis are as committed?Oh yeah, I think they're equally committed towhat they're doing. It's weird, earlier on duringthe photo session, Tony and I were talkingabout the classical stuff and the orchestralstuff and there's a side of Tony that I thinkwould be a natural in the classical arena. I dowonder, I think perhaps he's toying with theidea of doing that.

You originally placed an ad in MelodyMaker, in 1970, looking for a band thatwould eventually lead you to Genesis. Canyou remember what it said?It went along the lines of, 'Guitarist/writerseeks receptive musicians, etc. etc.' I thoughtit'll either be stragglers or a whole band. I was

open to whatever and then Pete phoned me up and Istarted rehearsing with them in '71. I'd already releasedan album with a band called Quiet Word,1 was only 20.It was on the Dawn label, it's called 'The Road: I playedguitar and harmonica on it. It's just been re-issued,funnily enough.

Your contribution to the band just in terms ofrecorded work is incredibly strong, do you still ratethose records?

CLASSIC ROCK' 21

I think they're pretty strong. I was talking to Chris Squire [Yes] not so longago and he said he thought that 'A Trick Of The Tail' was the best Genesisalbum. I think it's between that and 'Selling England...:

And how do you rate post-Hackett Genesis?I think there have been some great moments. I liked 'Abacab' and I reallyliked 'The Brazilian' off of 'Invisible Touch'. I think I've pretty much enjoyedone track per album. You know, 'Mama:.. 'Turn It On Again' was damnedgood. There's less detail in the music now, it was a band based on atmos­phere that became more mainstream pop. I loved the magical stuff whereyou'd listen and wouldn't even be sure what instrument was being played.I was the international guitarist of mystery, a bit like Austin Powers.

After your first American show proper at the New York CityPhilharmonic Hall in 1972, Rutherford says he threw his bass on thefloor after the show in disgust - was it that bad?A lot of things went wrong. Mike had this buzzing sound on his ampthroughout and someone had borrowed my amp and blown it up. Tonyhad problems as well. We were young and we really thought it was a make­or-break show for us in terms of us succeeding in America. I rememberthere was some shouting backstage afterwards, but the audience loved it. Ithink the publicity machine was in full flow by then.

You've been quoted in the past as saying that you sometimes feltcreatively stifled during your time in Genesis and that you sometimesracked your brain in order to please the band. Doyou remember it like that?When I first joined I felt as though my job hung by aslender thread, I was very concerned with living upto the gig. To be honest, the more confident Ibecame then the situation in the band becamemore difficult. Once I'd had a [solo] hit with 'VoyageOfThe Acolyte' [75] it was hard to go back to being...I felt I was more integral to the band's appeal. Iwanted to help give it this edge, to help control theenvironment in which we played those songs, to getacross these songs that were largely based onnarratives. I was young and headstrong and eventu­ally I decided that I had to go off and work withother people. Start learning more from strangers.

Have you ever regretted leaving Genesis?There was a point where I thought, "Fuck, they'rehaving all these hit singles." In financial terms, itcould have been suicide for me. Now I don't reallycare about all of that, as long as the record's spirited,as long as there's a feeling behind it. You can tell ifsongs are on a roll or not. That's the important thing.

ny nWhat do you prefer, ' ...The Hits' or the '...Archives' boxed set?I don't know, actually. I wouldn't say either are my favourite albums.[Laughs]. I'm supposed to be selling this collection; it's great, go out andbuy it. I think two or three of the singles would be among my favouriteGenesis tracks: 'Turn It On Again~ even though we've played it to death, soI'm a bit fed up with it really;'Mama~I think that's a classic track for us; and

And Then There Was OnePeter Gabriel was only 25 when he left Genesis in 1975. Few doubted his

ability to transform himself into a solo artist, but many weresurprised that a performer, once held in bemused fascination for

wearing a flower on his head, should reinvent himself with suchpassion and originality. Musically, Gabriel shifted gears byemploying Bob Ezrin (Lou Reed, Alice Cooper and Kiss) for hisdebut album, 'Peter Gabriel', in 1977, the first of four epony­mously-titled solo albums. While promoting the album inWest Germany, in December of that year, Gabriel was arrest­ed on suspicion of being a member of the Baader-Meinhofgang. Undeterred by this surreal turn of events, Gabrielenlisted Robert Fripp to produce his second album forrelease the following year. But it was with his third album in1980 that Gabriel stumbled across real commercial successwith a record that benefited from an unlikely hit single in theshape of 'Games Without Frontiers' (featuring whistling solos

22 • CLASSIC ROCK

'Hold On My Heart~ which a lot of people saysounds like a Phil [Collins] song, but I was trying towrite something that Phil could sing over. It's alovely song.

'Duke' is probably my favourite album.Unfortunately/Turn It On.' is the only track off it on'...The Hits' [and 'Misunderstanding'].The boxed setwas more of Pete's stuff; I thought the live 'Lamb...'things on there were really good.The live version of

'Stagnation' [from 'Trespass'] I really like, but perhaps that's because therecorded version wasn't up to much. Maybe the stuff that's on there that'sbeen living in my cupboard should have stayed in my cupboard. I supposeit's interesting to people who like to fill in the gaps. My solo career dependson those people, of course. [Laughs].

You've said that you were disappointed by the reaction to'...Calling AllStations...~ Did its relative failure come as such a surprise?I didn't actually expect it to be particularly successful, it was only after we'ddone promo stuff in the US that it looked liked it was going to do very well.

from producers Steve Lillywhite and Hugh Padgham). By his fourth album, in '82, called'Security' in the US, Gabriel had combined a world of sounds and consistent song writingthat dissipated and rained against Jerry Marrota's thunderous drumming.

Producer Daniel Lanois, who had worked with Gabriel on 1985's Birdy sound­track helped co-produce the following year's 'So' album. An unexpected

commercial smash, it also iptroduced Gabriel to the MlV generationwith its mesmerising claymation video for 'Sledgehammer'.

It was not until 1992 that Gabriel would return with a newalbum in the shape of the truly global sounding 'Us', released on

his newly created Real World record label. Afascinating insightinto Gabriel's psyche and break up with his then girlfriend,actress Rosanna Arquette, it featured contributions frommusicians as far afield as Armenia, Kenya, Russia and -in the shape of Sinead O'Connor - Ireland. Commercialreleases aside, Gabriel's very different brilliance is assuredwith the aforementioned Birdyas well as the daunting'Passion' soundtrack which he composed for Martin

Scorsese's Last Temptation Of Christ. Both beautiful andhaunting, it is perhaps the best thing that Gabriel has yet done.

It did okay here, but nothing there. It was a shock, we worked a whole touraround America, which you have to do because that's where the moneycomes from, really. But we couldn't do it because we couldn't sell anytickets. When we decided to do another record I thought we'd become thissmaller band, make a slightly more difficult album and do theatres. But, ofcourse, we thought America was going to work so we went for the arenasand stuff and that didn't work. The whole thing fell apart.

Do you think that the media let you down?Time's moved on and you have to accept it. Unfortunately, you can only sur­vive in the pop business by being contemporary, whether you like it or not.

And are you in the pop business?I suppose so. There are people out there who want a more sophisticatedkind of pop music. There are old timers like us, possibly Sting, who still dosomething with a little more substance to it and have some kind of success.Radiohead perhaps, there's a bit more depth to them.

Were you happy with what Ray Wilson did as a vocalist?Yes, especially on things like '..,Calling All Stations...' and 'There Must BeSome Other Way~ I didn't know Stiltskin [Wilson's former band] from Adam,I don't listen to the radio much, but I heard the album and I thought hisvoice was really good, it had some resemblance to Peter. I thought it'd begood to work with a deep, strong voice again after having worked with Philfor so many years; it's a different sort of thing. It was a great thing to do.

When you and Gabriel started out together at Charterhouse, you usedto cover songs like 'Try A Little Tenderness' and your original plan wasto write songs and sell them to other artists. What happened?Otis Redding was our idol in those days, I used to play his songs on thepiano and Pete would sing along. I never saw myself as a performer. I'm not,I'm a background boy. That's what I should have been. Unfortunately,everything I wrote was always too complicated. I always wanted to use onechord too many. [Laughs]. No one would do them, so we had to do themourselves. We did the 'Genesis To Revelation' album with the aim ofpublicising ourselves as songwriters, but, of course, it didn't do anything.

Is it true that when Anthony Phillips left the band that you alsodecided to leave, and then came back?

For Absent FriendsAsum of its parts, Genesis has always been a rich CUltivating ground for its members

to succeed as solo artists either alongside the band or, ultimately, after theirdeparture. As Banks wryly observes about Gabriel and Collins' very different paths to

solo stardom, "They needed launching into orbit, if you like. I feel like I'm a fuel tank andI'm about to fall back to earth. That's how I look at it."

Steve Hackett's debut solo album, 'Voyage Of The Acolyte', was sufficiently sturdy todraw favourable comparisons when it was reviewed alongside 'ATrick Of The Tail' in the US. Admittedly, Rutherford and Collinswere both very visible on 'Voyage.. .', which was cut whilstHackett was still with Genesis, but it was the guitarist's arrange­ments and subtle melodies that held the record aloft. Basedaround Tarot themes, 'Ace Of Wands', 'The Hermit', 'Star OfSirius'(with Sally Oldfield on vocals), it remains resourceful andHackett's playing - flUid, fuzzy, ecstatic - unsullied by time.

Hugely ~uccessful in a way Phil Collins could only have dreamed about (while the rest ofthe band probably had nightmares), 1981 's 'Face ,value' eventually went on to sell over amillion copies in the UK alone and stayed on the charts for a total of 274 weeks. Motivatedin parlby the divorce from his first wife, 'Face Value', was an intriguing mix of emphatic

drumming, heartbroken ballads (Which all seemed to score assingles) and stabs of brassy Motown. It was an unmitigatedsuccess, so much so that it's fair to say that Collins remade itover and over for the next five years.

Although not essentially a solo artist, Mike Rutherford's successwith his Mike &The Mechanics side-project is undeniable. 1980'spre-Mechanics 'Smallcreep's Day' was an intriguing aside, thoughone doubts Rutherford would see it like that. But 1988's 'Living

Years' was where Rutherford stuck artistic and commercial gold. His second Mechanicsalbum, with the help of vocalists Paul Carrack and Paul Young, among others, is highlightedby the tenacious 'Don't', the wistful single, 'Nobody's Perfect' and Alan Murphy's guitar on'Beautiful Day' and 'Why Me?' While the title track ensured blanket guilt for a generation of

thirtysomethings who hadn't phoned home in a while.Although Tony Banks is the least commercially successful of the

high profile and highly prolific extended Genesis family, his sound­track work, especially The Wicked Lady is worth a listen. In termsof taking a swing at the charts, it was with 1991's 'Still' thatBanks came closest. Utilising five different singers, including him­self, he created an album of memorably pared down pop-rock,that was occasionally atmospheric and heady, especially with

Fish's contributions, 'Angel Face' and 'Another Murder Of A Day'. Maybe the ex-Marillionman should have got the job after all?

CLASSIC ROCK· 23

"One has to say that thechances are that we mightnow be nearingthe end."Tony Banks on the future.

The tour for 'The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway' in '75 wasbeset by technical problems and overshadowed by the

news of Gabriel's impending departure. How doyou remember it?

We were very ambitious on that tour, we hadthese amazing slides, this amazing light show,all

these effects and, to be honest, it never allworked. And we were doing four sides of analbum and a few songs on there, like'Anyway' and even the intra to 'The LambLies Down ...' were awful to play on anelectric piano. It was difficult as well becauseit got to a point where we knew that Petewas going to leave. It was a strange moment.

He almost left during the making of thealbum, it all sort of shadowed the tour slightly.

The tour petered out somewhere in France, wewere meant to do Toulouse and we blew it out.

There wasn't that much interest, to be honest. It was

60 per cent they're still fantastic - though he was always saying things likethat. But after the bass had been thrown about and we shouted at eachother for 20 minutes, it transpired that it'd gone really well. It was a funny,funny show.

Journalist and Genesis biographer Armando Gallo said that Genesishardly used to have any fun on tour way back then.

We were young and very intense people. Iused to throw things a lot and Mike usedto throw things a lot, sometimes at eachother. And Peter and I were alwaysarguing because we were such closefriends. I think it's always difficult in thatkind of situation and there's always somekind of inter-group rivalry. It was difficult,but we did have a lot of fun as well. Wewere only 22 when we started playing the

US, which is pretty young. We were kind of immature too, Pete, Mike and I,because we'd come through the public school system. You really were notprepared for the kind of world we ended up in with that kind ofbackground. There were a lot of things to learn.

I didn't quit, but it was the moment I assumed that we wouldn't carry on. It'sdifficult for people to understand just how important Anthony was to theband at the time. He was the leader in many ways. He wanted us to be aprofessional band. Pete and I weren't very keen on it and to some extentMike was in Ant's shadow. It was a dream that a lot of kids have, being amusician. I was going off to University and that was that. We'd done thealbum and it had done absolutely nothing and I thought, well, that was fun,but that it was the end. Peter and I had justplayed along for the summer with theassumption that neither of us would stickwith it. I really thought that Mike wouldwant to leave after he went. If Ant hadn'treally wanted it at that time, then I don'tthink any of this would have started.

24 . CLASSIC ROCK

Your debut American show at the NewYork Philharmonic Hall in 1972 isregarded as legendary by those who saw it, but as something of a messby yourselves. What happened?It was a bit of a nightmare at the time, we did a warm up in Boston the nightbefore and discovered that the Hammond Organ was a cycle-controlledmotor - 50 cycles in England, 60 in the US. It was, "Oh shit!"We had to getin touch with this legendary roadie called Baz, who used towork on Keith Emerson's organ, and they had to rebuild acomplete power supply for me. I think we ended upgoing on stage about four hours late. It transpiredthat the power was too weak for the organ and,asusual, bicycle chains and vacuum cleanermotors were holding the Mellotron together.It was the usual nightmare.

So we got to New York and I knew I couldsort of get away with it, but Mike's bass gearhad this incredible buzz throughout, likeyou wouldn't believe. Peter was not as goodas usual and we came off the stage sodepressed because we thought it was ourown big chance and we'd blown it. It wasprobably one of our worst shows of that era,but the audience had never heard anything likeit and they seemed to like us. I remember Stratsaying, the great thing about Genesis is even at

pretty depressing, as a career move at the time it must have seemed apretty poor decision doing a double album. But I am glad we did it.

Do you remember the first time you saw Peter's comedy haircut?[Laughs]. He cut it in two stages, firstly all the sides went and then he cutthe front out and the middle. When I got married, he was the best manso all the wedding photos feature the best man with this amazing hairstyle.Pete knew how to build an image,how to get in the Melody Maker,he did those sorts of things andit worked.

After he left you bounced backwith two very strong albumsback-to-back, 'A Trick Of The Tail'and 'Wind And Wuthering~

I remember us sitting down and wewrote the intro to what wouldbecome 'Dance On A Volcano' and Iknew the first moment we'd writ­ten that riff that it was going to beokay. I remember thinking that westill had to find a singer, but it wasokay. 'Wind And Wuthering' was amore personal album. 'One For TheVine' and 'Afterglow' were two per­sonal approaches to music for me.'One...' I just wrote and let it go aslong as I wanted and we just went in and I said,this is it and we played it. 'Afterg low' became sucha strong live song, something we could buildtowards. Serene, majestic, that's the song thatgave us our pomp rock label more than any other.It's less well thought of, in retrospect, but 'Wind...'along with 'Duke', 'Foxtrot' and '...Calling AllStations...' are probably my personal favourites.

And with 'Mad Man Moon~ from 'A Trick•••~ youwere the first member to write 'I love you' in aGenesis song.Before Phil. [Laughs). Yes, I was, I think. That wasgood fun.

You mentioned earlier that you were tired ofplaying 'Turn It On Again' live, are there anyGenesis songs you hate to play live?Interesting question. I think we managed to stopplaying them. My least favourite Genesis song is'After The Ordeal' ['Selling England...'], but wenever did that live. I had nothing to do with thewriting of it. [Laughs]. But, my least favourite live?[Pause]. I can't think of one, I'm too big a fan really.

Jeff Buckley covered 'Back In N.Y.C' on hisposthumous 'Sketches For My Sweetheart TheDrunk' album. Very few people cover Genesis,why do you think that is?It's probably because we're far too untrendy.Therewas an album someone played me by a bandcalled, I think, Enigma and they'd used drum riffsfrom 'Fading Lights' and 'Dreaming While YouSleep' [from 'We Can't Dance'] and they hadn'tcredited us, but they had other people. I remem­ber Jim Kerr saying one of his favourite albumswas 'The Lamb...' and saying it was by PeterGabriel. Perhaps that somehow sounded trendier?I think that people sometimes think of Genesis asa bit of a dirty word.

Some of our songs could be covered beautifully.I've always had a dream of 'Afterglow' beingcovered by someone with that real Ray Charlesapproach, or a Joe Cocker thing, that'd be fantas­tic. There are hundreds that you could do. I'd loveto hear some, I really would. I think our reputation'sat a bit of a low ebb at the moment. In a few yearstime it may be looked at differently, you know?

Will there still be a Genesis in a few years time? You have alwayshinted that a 'best of' thing like a boxed set and a greatest hitspackage would signal the end of the band.My own feeling is that the Genesis time has probably run out. We haven'tmade a final decision yet, is the truth of the matter. We'll decide on that.We've had a fantastic career and I can't think of a reason to end it on a low.It's very uphill everywhere you look at the moment. I don't know. The kind

of music we do best, particularly what wewere trying to get back to on '...Calling...'is extremely unfashionable now.

If we toured again ever then the onlychance we'd really have is to do a revivaltour where you do the old hits. [Pause].But as for the moment there are no plansto go back into the studio with Ray, youhave to be honest. We're going to reviewit, but one has to say that the chances arethat we might now be nearing the end.

Down on the farmNovember 1999. Hackett,

Rutherford and Banks.

CLASSIC ROCK· 25