Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

THURSDAY, 12 DECEMBER 1929

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

2226 Apprentices and Minors Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Questions.

THURSDAY, 12 DECEMBER, 1929.

The SPEAKER (Hon. C. Taylor, Windsor) took the chair at 10.30 a.m.

MEMBER TAKES HIS SEAT.

Mr. J. MULLAN.

Mr. John Mullan, having previously taken the oath of allegiance before His Excellency the Governor, subscribed the roll, and took his seat as member for the electoral district of Flinders.

QUESTIONS.

IN RE FOOD AT DUNW!CH.

Mr. PEASE (Herbert) asked the Home Secretary-

" 1. Will he have inquiries complaints as to the food Dunwich, more particularly

supply of vegetables of same?

"2. Is it a has been to the he is dard

Questions. [12 DECEMBER.] Questions. 2227

The HOME SECRETARY (:Hon. J. C. Peterson. Xormanby) replied-

" 1. The only complaint which has been received has been a complaint made by Jl.laurice Carrell through the honourable the Loader of the Opposition and the honourable members for Barcoo and Rockhampton. This man is a chronic growler who Lac. made ma,Jy complaints, all of which have been inquired into and found to be groundless.

" 2 and 3. The department has no knowledge of this matter. Inquiry into the ~taturnent is being n1ade."

FINANCIAL 0BLIGATio;c.r INVOLVED IN PuRCHASE OF SWIFTS :i\IEATWORKS.

:\lr. BULCOCK (llarcoo) asked the Pre-n11er-

" 1. Y1 ill he inform the House of the total finallcial oblig·ation likely to be incurred b; the State in connection with the proposed purchase of Swifts meat­works?

" 2. What precautions will be taken to --nLegua1·d the State's financial interests in respect to the purchase-(a) in respect to repayment of interest; (b) repayment of principal?

" 3. \Vhat will be the basis upon which the proposeJ Meat Board will be con­stituted r

" 4. In the formation of any board established, what protection, by rcpre­"'mtation on the board, is to be afforded to consurncrs o£ n1eat w-ithin the area t<J be served by the abattoirs?

"5. In the proposal to establish abat­toirs, hns due consideration been given to the problem of securing speedy and uBintorrupted railway communication?

" 6. What action is it proposed to take with reference to existing slaughter­houses licensed and operating under the existing law?

" 7. Is it proposed to cancel all exist­ing licenses administratively, or is It propo,·.cd to legislate in this direction?

" G. In the event of either of the above methous being adopted, is it proposed to provide for compensation in respect to cancelled slaughter-house licenses?"

The PREMIER (Hon. A. E. Jliloore, Aubigny) replied-

" 1 to 8. 'The honourabie member's que,tions are based upon wrong premises. The Government has merely opened up negotiations with Swift (Au$tralia) Limited as a possible way of carrying out the recommendation of the Beef Cattle Industry Commission to establish nbattoirs in Brisbane for treatment for local, interstate, and export purposes. _\t the present stage it is not possible to say what the total financial obliga­tion would be in the event of it being decided to purchase the ''Torks in qucs 101on. In any case, the State's financial interests and the interests of consumers will be adequately safeguarded."

CoM:.I!ISSION PAID ro RAILWAY DEPARTMENT o;,.r SALES OF COAL FRO 'l BOWEN STATE :MINE.

Mr. HY~ES (Townsville) asked the Secre­tary for Mines-

" 1. ·what commission per ton is being paid ' to the Railway DepartmeJ•t for

handling the business for the Bowon State coalmine?

"2. Dod this include all sales of Bowen coal other than to the Queensland rail­ways?

" 3. What saving (if any) has been effected b:} transferring the agency from Mr. Frank Byrno to the Railway D0part­n1cnt?:

The SECUE'I'ARY FOR MINES (Hon. A. E. Athcrton, Chillugoe) replied-

" 1. 3d. per ton on all sales other than railway coal and coal for H. 0. Sleigh.

"2. Ko. " 3. No saving so far, but it is antici­

pateJ that increased business will result."

\YanK FOR rNE)JPLOYED MARRIED CITIZENS IN TOWNSVILLE.

Mr. HYl\ES (Townsville) asked the Secre­tary for Railway·-

" ·will he follow the practice of the prcviou' Government this Christmas, and give employment for a couple of weeks tq the uncmployeu and destitute married citizens of Townsvillo, so as to enable ihem to bring a little extra food and happinc·'s into their homes during the fosti ve season?"

TL·, PREMIER (Hon. A. E. Moore, tiuuigny), for the SECRETARY FOR RAIL­\VAYS (Hon. Godfrey Morgan, )}furilla), replied-

" Inquiries are being made."

I>:TENTIONS OF GOVERN11ENT IN RE EXTENSIONS OF Tnum;u.OOKA, No oR \ol.l, AND TINNEN­BvRRA LEASES.

Mr. BRASSIKGTON (Balonne) asked the Secrctarv for Public Lands-

•· 1. Does the Government intend to grant p<trt extensions or extensions of lease to the lessees of the following pas­toral propertiu in the Cunnamulla dis­trict :-(a) Thurulgoona and Noorama; (b) Tinncuburra?

" 2. If so, will he state the condition& of lease-(a) .Area to be leased; (b) terms of lease, including rental and period; (c) other conditions that are to operate?

"3. \Yill he state the area of the hold­ing·s mentioned, and the date on which the existing leases 'vill expire?

" 4. Has any proposal been advanced by the lessees of these holdings to secure an extension of lease for the purpose of breeding stud sheep ?

".5. If so, will he state the terms of cuch offe1·s, and the decision of the Government in regard to same?

•· 6. h he aware that-(a) large num­bers of \V astern people are desirous of selecting this land if it is made avail­able for closer settlement; (b) there are a nun1bcr of selectors adjoining these holdings who arc existing on smdl areas of land, and who are desirous of securing additional areas?"

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS (Hon. \\'. A. :;)c~con, Cunningham) replied-

" 1. These three holdings have some years to run. Consid~ration has ~10t hcen given to the questwn of cxtendmg tho leases or any part thereof.

"2. Sco answer to No. 1.

2228 Questions. [ASSEMBLY.] Questions.

"3. Thurulgoona~994~ square miles; loa'e expires 31st December, 1934. N oo­rama-108~ square miles; lease expires 30th JunP. 1934. Tinnenburra-1,150ji square mile··; lease expires 30th June, 19~4.

"4. No. It is understood, however, tl<at the lesscPs of Thurulgoona and Koorama contemplate submitting a devci.pmenhl proposal in regard to a portion of those holdings.

"5. Sec answer to No. 4. "6. (a) The areas cannot be made

available for closer settlement until the le,.se·, expire-at the earliest live years h<·nce This being so, the question of the likely demand by selectors has not yet arisen. (b) There are a number of grazing selectors adj acont to these lands who nuy claim that their present areas arc incufficient, and who will probably apply to be granted additional areas from these holdings when the leases expire.''

PuBLICATION OF INFOR:UATION IN RE CuLTIVA· TION OF TonAcco AND CoFFEE ; Assis­TANCE TO NEW SETTLEHS BY AGRICULTURAL BANK.

Mr. BRAND (Burrum), for Mr. SWAYNE (Mirani), asked the Secretary for Agricul­ture-

" 1. Will he. for the assiotanco of heads of fan1ili•~3 desirous of going on to the land and embarking in those forms of primary production wherein neither a large aro:t of land nor amount of capital is requisite, have collected and published in a concise forn1 practical inforn1ation in connection \Yjth such industries as tobacco and coffee growing, or any other Ct'Ops adapted to such conditions?

" 2. Will he '11so ascertain from the Department of Public Lands and include in any publications on the subject full information as to where the land suitable for such crops is obtainable?

" 3. ·will he also furnish particnlars as to the assistance new settlers on the ] and can obtain from the Agricultural Bank?"

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE (Hon. H. F. Walker, Cooroora) replied-

" 1. Full consideration will be given. " 2. I will discuss the matter with the

Minister for Public Lands. "3. Leaflets which furni.,IJ. full narticu­

lars of the assistance rendered· to the man on the land by the Agricultural Bank are circulated and are always obtainable upon application to the bank."

PROVISION OF WORK IN BuNDABERG DISTRICT BY MAIN RoADS COMThiiSSION FHOM SuM ALLOrlTED BY FEDERAL LOAN COUKCIL.

Mr. BARBER (Bunda7J, rg) asked the Secretary for Labour and Industry-

" 1. In view of the termination of the sugar season in the Bundaberg district, is he aware that between now and the new year the number of unemploved in that centre will probably total SOO to 1,000 men, and will he take immediate action to make available portion of the 'urn allocate-d last week by the Federal Loan Council to complete the work now being carried out by the Main Roads Board, Bvndaberg City Council, and district shire councils ?

" 2. Has he considered the report of the deputation of unemployed who met the Hon. H. F. Walker during his recent visit to Bundaberg ?"

The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AC\i'D INDUSTRY (Hon. II. E. Sizer, Sandgate) replied-

" Everything possible will be done to relieYo the position of the unemployed in the various centres throughout the State.

"2. See answer to No. 1."

ExPEKDITURE or Su:., ALLocATED ro QuEENS­LAND BY FEDERAL GOYERN:MENT FOR RELIEF OF UNEMPLOYJ\IEXT.

Mr. KIR\YA)J (Brisbane) asked the Pre­Inier-

" 1. In connection with the amount of £188,000 allocated to the Queensland Government as their quota of the sum of £1,000,000 made available by the Federal Government for the immediate relief of unemployment, will he indicate in what mannr r it is proposed to expend this amount in Queeusla11d?

" 2. \Vill the necessary arrangements for the expenditure of this money be expedited, so that a number of the urLm­ployed may ha vc an opportunity of securing at least a \Ve~k's work before Christlnas?''

ThB PREMIER (Hon. A. E. Moore, flubigny) replied-

" 1 and 2. I h'tvo received no official information as to the reported allocation to Queonslllnd of £188,000 for the relief of unemployment. Until the Treasurer returns fro;.,1 Canberra to-day, it will not be known definitely if or when this monev wiil be available or what con­ditior!s are imposed. 'rhe Government is anxious to do m·erything possible to relim·e unemployment, especially at this season of the year, and will not delay in takinll' whatever action may be con­sidPred desirable when the terms and conditions of the grant (if made) MG known."

SPf.CIAL R,ArL·W.iY CARS FOR L_l,TE r~IlNISTERS

AT>ENDIXG TowxsnLLE LABODR CoN­VEXTION.

Mr. KELSO (~Yundah) asked the Secretary for Railways-

" 1. How many Ministers had sp~cial railway cars standing in the Townsville railway yards during the last Labour Convention in Townsville?

" 2. How many day> were the cars there?

"3. \Vas there a conductor with ectch car?

" 4. What were the wages paid to such conductors during- the trip?"

The PREMIER A ubignp), for the

(Hon. A. E. Moore. SECRE'rARY FOR

RAILWAYS (Hon. Godfrey Morgan, Murilla), replied-

" 1. Eight Ministers tra veiled in four special cars.

" 2. Six days. " 3. A conductor accompanied all

except the Minister for Railways' car. " 4. £38 3s. 4d."

Questions. [12 DECEMBER.] Questions. 222!P

GOVERNMENT PllOPOSALS IN RE PROVlO!CiG WORK FOR UNEMPLOYED.

Mr. W. FORGA:::-.J SMITH (Mackay), without notice, asked the Ptcmier-·

" In connection with the announce. ment of the Secretary for Labour and Industry which was given wide publicity in the metropolitan press of 25th July last, under the captions 'Finding Wc-rk; Big State-Wide Scheme; Early Legisla­tion; Minister Reviews Position'; a•d wherein it was then intimated that ' details of a large and State-wide vro­gramine of works, aiming at the relief of uneuployment, would be submitted to Parliament very early in the coming session' :-Is it the Government's inten­tion, e~en at this late hour of the sc9sion, to bring forward a measure in the direction indicated by his colleague in the press statement above referred to in honour of the Government's pre­election pledge to find £2,000,000 for 10,000 new jobs for the immediate relief of the unemployment position? "

The PREMIER (Hon. A. E. Moore, A ub-ig1:y) : replied-

" The fullest investigation has been made, and an endeavour to find the necesoary money, but, unfortunately, the Loan Council has not been able to get into a mtisfactory position up to the present time to enable a measure to be introduced this session."

ADMINISTRATION OF AGRICULTURAL BANK.

Mr. DUFFY (Eacham), without notice, asked the Secretary for ~\griculture-

" 1. In view of the general dissatis­faction throughout the farming districts of Queensland with the treatment of applicants to the Agricultural Bank for financial assistance-as a re,c,ult of the late Government's administration-will he assure the House that in future he will carry out the policy and administra. tion of the bank so that the real inten­tion of the Act will be applied to those dc,irous of settling on the land and developing their holdings ? "

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE (Hon. H. F. Walker, Cooroora) replied-

" Yes. The matter will be given the fullest consideration."

FLOTATION OF STATE LOANS IJY LOAN CouNCIL.

Mr. J\'IMMO (Oxley), without notice, asked the Premier-

" 1. Has he noticed in the ' Brisbane Courier ' of 9th instant a quotation from a letter from Sir Thomas Robin­son, late· Agent-General for Queensland, containing the following statement-

' It was a very great mistake for the States to cease to float their own loans and put it all in the hands of the Commonwealth. . . It will be a costly investment for them if the States haYe to pay over 6 per cent. for their money instud of the 5 per cent.-or even less sometimes-if the roans had been dealt with as they u-ed to be a few years back. The Commonwealth should have per­mitted the States to borrow in their separate capacities and as separate entities and should have guaranteed

payment of both interest and prin­cipal. This would have been regarded as enhancing the security of the in-, veo,tment and would help towards a more favourable rate of interest or price of issue--the Commonwealth, of course, only giving such a guarantee of ouch State loans as they approved. In this wnv the Commonwealth could have controlled the borrowing activi­ties of the State''.' " 2. If so, does he consider that the

methods suggested would effect any improvement."

The PREMIER (Hon. A. E. 1\!Ioore, .~ubigny) replied-

" 1. Yes. "2. No. One of the main functions of

the Loan Council was to do away with competition between States on the money market and it made a decided improve­ment on previous conditions. The state­ment in question displays a complete lack of understanding of the position. 'J;he snrcity of loan moneY and the h1gh rates of interest are outside the control of the Fedora! or State Governments or their borrowing authorities. Last year the Lean Council was unable to meet the loan ref}uirements of the States to the fxtent of £10,000,000. The Govern­ments of Victoria and Tasmania con. ,idered that their credit \\as such that, if permitted to go on the market indi­vidually, they would be successful in making up their shortages. In October, 1928, the Loan Council gave the necessary permission and also the additional sccuritv of Commonwealth backing, but the attempt in each case has been a failure. -:\;either State has been able to secure a favourable reply to its applica­tion."

PRICES OF TOR\CCO; ~\LLEGED EXPLOITATION OF CoNSL'21IERR BY \VHOLESALE SuPPLIERS.

Mr. TEDMAN (Jiaree), without notice, asked the Secretary for Labour and In­dustry-

" Has he received any information that the wholesale suppliers of tobacco in Brisbane have recently given instructions to certain retailers in Brisbane that, unless they increase their prices to those decided upon by the Retail Tobacconists' Association, their supplies of tobacco will be discontinued?

"\V ill he lmve full inquiries made into this matter with a view of preventing any unfair exploitation of the consumers in connection with this matter?"

The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND INDUSTRY (Hon. H. E. Sizer, Sanrlgatc) ropli<d-

" I have no information on the subject mentioned, but I will have inquiries made."

Scsmvrsw~ OF QuEENSLAKD INTO Two OR MORE STATES.

Mr. DU:;\JLOP (Rockhampton), without notice, asked the Premier-

" ·will he give thiR House, or myself, the liberty next session"--

HoxocRABLE ME~IBERS: Oh ! (Laughter.)

2230 Perscnal Explanation. [ASSEMBLY.] Proposed PeTso",a! Explanntion.

Mr. DU"LOP: Hon. members should wait until 1 finish and tlwy will know what my 1·cquest is.

" Will the Premier give this House or myself the opportunity of moving a motion in favour of the subdivision of Queensland into two or n1ore States 'c"

Mr. W. FORGAN SMITH: The Premier cloPs not intend to call Parliament together any more; he intends to legislate without Parlia­ment.

The PREMIER {Hon. A. E. Moorc, £1 ubigny) replied-

" Next s0ssion the hon. member for Rockhampton will have the opportunity thot is accorded to all private members of having any motion he desires debated on private members' day."

(Opposition laughi 9r.}

MANAGEMENT OF EvExTlDE Hon1E, CHARTERS TOWERS.

Mr. W. FORGAN SMITH (Jiaclcay), vcithout notice, aked the Home Secretary-

" Has he rhncivcd anv comnl<tints about the general m~nagemoi,t of the Eventide Home in Ch.crters Towers, and is he <tware that many JVOplc who made appli. cation for admiss;on to that home an'd were admitted to it have since left 01vin~ to di~satisfaction ·with the internai organisation of thP institution?"

The HOME SECRETARY (Hon. J. C. Potorson, Kormanly) replied-

" In cornmon 'vith other institutions from time immemorial, there are always people to write letters of complaint. There hove been some letters in respect of the Eventide Home, and it is quite true that a c,•rhin number of por"ms ha \'O lc>ft the institution. In the rnajorit"', of casr s, ho,veYer, the in1nates have sivnif\ed that they are well satis­fied with their L'eatment and with the' food supplied, t'tc. I am always pro­pared to m a ko full inquiries into every cha rg-o, because it is onlv right that the per ,ons resident at that home should h:tve proper treatment and food. Any complaints in that regard will have my whole-hearted i1westigation."

PALM ISLAND ~\BORIGINAL SETTLEMENT.

Mr. BRUCE (K cnnrrly), without notice, asked the H~omc Secretary-

" Etas he received any complaints in reference to the superintendent at Palm Island with regard to drunkenness and treatment of aboriginals; if not, will he have the matter investigated? I received a communication too late to take other action."

The HOME SECRETARY (Hon. J. C. Peterson, _Yormanby) replied-

"An unsignPd communication has been received: but, dcpite that fact inquiries will be made." '

PERSONAL EXPLANATION.

Mrs. LONGMAN (llulimba): Mr. Speaker, I desire to a;k the pHmission of the House to make a personal c qJlanation.

The SPEAKER : Is it the will of the House that th" hon. member for Bulimba be permitted to make a personal explana­·twn?

HONOURABLE J\IE2!BERS : Hear, hear!

[.Mrs. Longman.

~·1rs. LO~GMA~: Last night the hon. member for Rockhampton quoted me as having stated that the Leader of the Opposi­tion was an opportunist. I would like to

that I did not make such a statement, moreover, I do not think it.

I-loxouRABLE 1V1E:<:BERS: Hear, he3.r ! 1\fr. PEASE: The most gracious member on

the Government bcnche •. A GovEnx:vrENT ::\1n!BER: The hon. member

for Rockhampton should apologise.

PRIVILEGE. Mr. DU:'i'LOP (lloclhampton): Mr.

Speaker, I rise on a question of privilege, l\1r. Cor..Lr~s: I-Icar, hear l

Mr. DUNLOP: Unfortunately, last night ":hen I v, as addressing this Chamber, the Deputy Speaker, i\lr. Roberts, \vas in the chair. He called me to order. I do not disown that het. (Lau"ht,,r.} I was alluding to the hon. member--

The SPEAKER: Order ! I would refer the hon. r:1cmber to Standing Order 115.

Mr. DcNLOP: That is the Standing Order I w'" going to quotE'.

Tho SPEAKER : That Standing Order reads-

" A member ma:;' rise to speak to Order, or unon a m .ttcr of privilege suddenly arising."

The matter complained of by the hon. mcmLcr arose iast night. Therefore. there is no qrestion of " a matter of privilege suddenly arising."

~fr. \Y. FoRGA!\ Sl\IITH: 1-Ie was not given the opportunity last nig·ht.

The SPEAKER : The matter complained of b:: the hon. member for Rockhampton omurrcd la •,t nig·ht, and I certainly do not intend to ellow him to raise a question of privill..se this n1orning jn reference to a matter which occurred then.

;\1r. POLLOCK : You ,,-ould not allow me to rai'" it when you threw me out.

The SPEAICEH : \Yhen the Deputy Spe~kcr is orcupyir.g the Speaker's chair, ho is clothed with all the powers of the Speaker; therefore, it would be quite out of order for me to allow anv discussion or debate in regard to what took place last ni.,.ht when the Deputy Speaker occupied the chair.

PROPOSED PERSO:'i'AL EXPLANATION. Mr. DUNLOP (Rockharnpton): Mr.

Speaker. I rise to make a p0rsonal f'xplana­tion. I have listened most attentively to what you have said.

The SPEAKER: Order ! What is the hon. member's personal explanation?

Mr. DUNLOP : It is this : Last night-­

The SPEAKER: Order! Mr. DUNLOP: Mr. Speaker, on a totally

different point, which has nothing to do with the other matter, I ask to be allowed to make a statement in reply to the hon. member for Bulimba.

The SPEAKER: Order ! Mr. DUI\LOP: I rise to make a personal

explanation. HONOURABLE ME~IBERS: No!

The SPEAKER: Order!

Apprentices and JI;Jinors Bill. [12 DECE~rBJ]R.] Apprentices and JI;Jinors Bill. 2231

INQUESTS OF DEATH ACT AMEND· MENT BILL.

MOTION FOR INITIATION.

On "Government Business-Notice of Motion, No. 1 "-being called, viz.:-

"Mr. 1facgroarty to move-' That leave be given to introduce

a Bill to amend the Inquests of Death Act of 1866 in a certain par­ticular.' "

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL (Hon. X F. Macgroarty, South Brisbane): I desire to intimate that it is not my intention to pro­"eed with the Bill mentioned in " Govern­ment Business-:\'otice .of :Motion, No, 1" standing in 1ny name. The object of the pro­posed meamre, which was in relation to the Inquests of Death Act of 1866, was to dis­pon-e with the necessity of the jmtice vi?w­ing the body in order that inquiries might proceed between now and the next session of P!'rliament I ascertained yeoterday that 236 mquests \"ero conducted in Quc.msland during the current year. Having gi>cn the n1atter consideration OYcrnight, I have eornc to the conclusion that there is nothing· in the pres~nt legislation to prevent an inquest being proJeodc•tl \Yiih to finalih b, anv .i net ice who ba' Lcen requested to hold a;1 inqc est. He mlt' exhmno the bodY and that would to::::-t.itute a '' Yie\~: " Of the l10dy, FO that in thos,· circumstances the inqunt can be pi'Oceeded with. To dispense with a >iewing of the bodY would be to take "way a principle that has boon contained i u Coroners Acts for all time.

J\lr. BuLcocK: Why did you give notice that it w. s de·· irable to introduce a Bill'

The ATTORKEY-GE:\'ER \L: I think it j, not desirable that the vi2w should be dis­pensed with, and am o.f opinion that section <i of the present Act, which gives authoritv for th? exhumation of the body, will permi't 1nqmnes to be proc,~eded with. For these reacons I do not propose to proceed with the amending Dill. T \\ant to repeat that a comprehensive amending Bill on the line~ of the .English Act will he introduced early next SCSSlOD.

GovERNMENT ::\IE'\!BERS: Hear, hear !

I'ITTSWORTH SOLDIERS' MEMORIAL (APPLICATION OF FUNDS) VALI­D.\TION BILL.

THIRD READING.

The HOME SECRETARY (Hon. J. C. Peterson, Normanl>y): I beg to move-

" That the Bill be now read a third time."

Question put and passed.

APPRENTICES AXD MIXORS BILL.

SECOND RF\DIXG-RESL:i\IPTION OF DEBA'fE.

Mr. FOLEY (T.eichhm·dt): The Opposi­tion, including myself. recognise the import­ance of providing laws to regnlate the <:onditions under which apprentices through­out the State of Queensland shall be trained. Having recognised that principle, the Labour Party, when in power, made provision under the 1924 Act with regard to the conditions under which apprentices in this State should operate. It has been generallv conceded that the 1924 Apprenticeship Act was a model Act in every respect. So much so

that other States and other countries have made inquiri0s from the Queensland Govern­ment regarding the operation of that Act; and in a number of case." the principle embodied in the 1924 Act has been put into operation. That in itself is a sufficient recommendation for that Act. Notwith­standing that, the Government have now introduced a Dill making certain vital amendments in the principles embodied in that Act. I have gone carefully into the amendments included in the Bill now before the Hous~. ctnd I have failed to find where it is po,:'siblc in any way to bring about the impro\ cmcnt in the mnplo:·ment of appren­tices and minors in this State that the ~d i;,ister ela imcd will be possible under the Bill. DuriJtg his speech he failed to show b~- rea onablc or logical deduction where the impronment wao likely to take place in that respect.

Scve-;'al hon. rncrnbcrs indulging 1n con· Ycrsations in loud tones-

The SPEAKER :·Order ! I would ask hon. n1Cn1bera not to indulge in conv~rsation while thP hon. member is speaking.

::\Ir. FOLEY : The only conclusion I can c 1me to i, that the introduction of this mea­scre is n!nlly only a gesture to the parents of the St:.te that the Government intend, through tbe r,,edinm of this ·Bill, to do something for the boys and girls of Queens­land. One nn quite understand \Vhy the Govcrnrncnt should ntten1pt, by v.ray of n. gesture, to I'li,l0ad the people into the Lelief that tho Government arc doing some­thing in the interests of their boys and girls.

A GovEm;:,EXT :\TDIBER: So they are.

'\Ir. FOLEY: I want to stress the ,,1ethods adopt,~d at the last election by the Premier, not only in his policy speech but by way of a pct.3ona l letter to the electors of the State. l ha vo in my hand a copy of a letter signee\ by the hon. gentleman, and dated 8th L\pril. 1929. Dc.tling with the question of finding employment for boys and girls he had thi. to say-

" \Y ill vou b> rour vote condemn our bo;. s a.nd ··our girls to renounce all hope of finding opcl1ings that will give an outlet fo1· their arnbition, and pay them for their s' . .ill and effort?"

Ho goes on with a few other points not relating to this measure, and eventually says-

" \Y ill 'ou condemn the ordinary citizolls ~f Queensland engaged in industry to the position where the efficient and inefficient receive the same reward? Or will you take a new road where skill and industry will be encouraged?''

Then he goes on-" when p:ut of the State's credit will be used to assist in the establishment of industrieo to provide employment and openings for youth."

In my opinion that was a direct bribe to the people of Queensland that, if they sup­ported his candidates, unemployment would cease. There ,.·ould be a lot of new indus. tries started a,nd opportunities created for boys and girls once the new Government wen· established on the Treasurv benches. What has been tho case? We· find that adult men and \Yomen are walking the streets of our citiPs nnd towns perusing

Mr. Fo?.ey.]

2232 Apprenticrs and Minors Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] App1·entices and Minou Bill.

the newspaper adYertisements and searching for employment. There has been no improve­ment whatever. Indeed, I am of opinion that conditions are worse than they were when we were in office. The same thing applies to the boys and girls. There has been no increased prosperity brought about by the Government in the industries of the State ; consequently many of the boys and girls to whom the Minister referred in his second-reading speech are walking the streets in search of employment.

The letter of the Premier which I have quoted was run off by the thousand and sent to individual electors. l claim that that was practicallv misrepresentation and this !3ill, following upon that misrep~esentation, IS only a gesture that they are endeavouring to do something.

Linked up with the question of finding employment for minors is the bigger ques­

tion of finding employment for [11 a.m.] thmr fathers, which should have

the attention of the Government. In regard to this matter the same sort of thing went on during the election campaign. For example, the hon. member for Kurilpa, as reported in the " Daily Mail " of z,; th Aprii last, said-

" Poverty could, and should, "be pre­vented throug·h parliamentary action and through arbitration, :\fr. Fry said, and he stood for a policy of orderly change that would provide for the true happi­ness and welfare of the people, and progressive constitution of the entire dorriocrar~y. ''

In the "Brisbane Courier " of 25th April, he is reported as having said-

" The McCormack Government had no remedy for unemployment-its policy created it; and every man and wmnan who was at present on the unemployed market would look in vai11 towards that Government for anv assishnce in the way of work. On the other hand. the policy outlined b~· :1lr. 111oore (Leader o~ the National Party) would give imme­diate employment to 20,00J men for six :non the, at the basic wage rate of pay; It would encourage tho expansion of the industries already in the State and encourage the establishment of new industrie:.:;."

Has that been done" :Many of the bovs and girls O\ur whom the Minister last ni,.ht prac­tically shed crocodile tears would h~ ve been engaged ei ihcr as minors or apprentices in those trades. I claim that the more impor­tant thing to rlo is to find work bv \\ av of building up indu:otries and the consequent engagernent of apprentice..:; and minor::;.

The hon. mcmbf.'r for Too:yong also went o.ut of his road to deal with the same ques­ti•on. In the "Tele{lraph " d 30th April, hv is reported as b a ving said-

" Mr. J'vlaxvYcll stated that it was only dnring the election campaign that Mr. :\fcCormack sav·; there was something in the reduction of salaries for members. The Opposition were prepared to fight thie subject from beginning to end, and w~re prepnr0d to do what they had pro­mised-reduce the salary from £750 to £500. If need be, the money could go towards a fund for relieving unemploy­ment. The people themselves could say what should be done with it."

(Oprosition interruption,)

[fl'lr. Foley.

The SPEAKER: Order! I would like tn draw the attention of tho hon. member to the fact that his remarks are getting outside the scope of the Bill.

Mr. FOLEY : I appreciate your ruling, Mr. Speaker. I have already pointed out, by way of connecting my. remarks with the question, that the most Important matter IS that of finding employment for t~e adults of this State Jnd the building up of m<).ustry, >;& promised by the Government durmg thetr election campaign. Nothin_g ha~ been done in that respect although 1 clatm that the remarks o£ bon.' members oppo,ite, published per medium of the pre~s and privat_e letters, made all kinds of promises about domg away with tmc·mployment .tnd, in particular, .the raising of a loan of £2,000,000 to find JObs for 10,000 workers. The hon. m.ember for Kurilpa \'Vent one better and said he was going to find jobs for 20,000 w:or~ors and bring about a big improvement m mdustry. Had these things been done, the apprentice­ship problem would <'ventually have b~en adjusted, and many of the boys and guls now walkin<> the streets would have been automaticall~ engaged in occupation. The Bill is purely a gesture on the par~ of. the Government to deceive the peop.e I~to believing that the Government are carrymg out the promises made by them on the hustings.

I defy any member on the Governme~t. si do to indicate in any way that any additiOnal opening.s will be created for l!'inors or aJ?p,ren­ticcs by the passage of this Bill. The Mm_Istc;r nractically intimated last mght that It . IS proposed to divert from the In?usti'Ial Court to an apprentiCeship ex~"c.utivo t.he power to fix wages and conditi.ons with reference to minors and apprentices; J;>ut it must be remembered that the executive will be dominated by 'the Government rel?re­scntatives and the employers' representatives and will carry out the policy of the present Government.

The Minister practically intimated .that this div-ersion of power would result . m a reduction of wage-; of apprentices and mmors, ancl in that way the ernployc_r~ throughout the State would engage addibonal hand_s. It> is contended that. by reducmg costs m this most oucstionable manner, more OJ?en­ings will be ereated and more apprenti~es and minors will be engaged. . I feel qmte confident that such a suggestiOn will not appeal to the ayerage parent to-day. ~he ""vcrage parent, inciuding myself, r€a!Ises that this State must not be allowe.d to 1:cturn to the bad old conditions tba~ existed m the davs when we were lads seekmg employmer:t after leaving school. Those bad old condi­tions permitted the employer .to pay to the minor whatev-er "age he decided and per­mitted him to work the young poop]~ as man"- hours a;;; he chose. In the business in vvhich I was engaged I was the only lad employed, although the w"lges were m;ly 7s. 6d. per week. If the argument appli~s to-day that a reduction in costs of ~Ins startfing nature will result in the crcaiion of a "!'cater number of avenues of employ­ment for boys, why did it not o.pply. at the time to which I refer? ·why, ta1loresses were employed for th~ first six months for no thin" the second six months for 2s. 6d. a we(•k: and were eventually dismiss<;d to make roon1 for new and younger minors. Notwithstanding the conditions that existed, employers engaged only the number of

Apprentices and j];iinors Bill. [ 12 DECEMBER.] Apprentices and Minors Bill. 2233

em ployecs necrs,ar:r to carry on their respec­tive businesses, and always at the lowest rate of pay. Thi.; Bill will result in a reduction of pay to minors and apprentices; but it will not result in the engagement of one more minor or in the indenturing of one more apprentice as a result of such a reduc­tion in pay. If it did msult in the emplo::­ment of an additional one or two, what is that in comparison with the numbers of boys and girls walking the streets to-day? The problem has a greater signiflcanc., than that, and demands deeper consideration than a mere reduction of wages.

You must go a little deeper than that. During this session the Government have exhibited no desire to tackle this question from its fundamentals. No measure has been brought down to bring about greater co-operation between employers 'and em­ployees, increased efficiency, or greater organisation in industry, as recomn1ended by t~1e reports on unemployment by the Migra­twn and Development Commission. After a very keen in,-<;stigation of the problems affec_tmg Au~traha mdustrially, this com­rrusnon pracbcally pointed out that business people were lacking in business methods and that, this fact was mainly rosponsibl~ for the largo amount of unemployment during t~" pr_ooent 0epression. The economic depres­sion 1s 1na1nly the reason '\vhy so many employees l_ll'O wa.lking our streets to-day. The Mig-ration and l!evelopment Commission pomted out the vanous trade cydes which t'~we

1been experien;'ed in Australia, specified

c.<e CL,,tes, and pomtc•d OUt that WO would eventually pass through the depression which 1s at present ruling througf1out Australia. A~ we emerge from this depression manv mmors _and new apprentices will be engaged by_ bus me ;s concerns It is idle to try to brmg that Iesl!lt about by reducing the rates of pay of mmors and apprentices. Th~t WJlJ only open the door to exploitation bv the employei:, without the advantage to th'e boys ~nd gn·ls that the Minister expects. I agam emphasise tho fact that. if an employer can "employ a boy under this Bill at 15s. pc! w~ek and save 5s. thereby, he Is not g-omg to engage two boys in his busm< ss where one is sufficient to cope with the work. Therefore, in that respect the er:rployor will be 5s. per week better off Without any additional number of minors bem!l' employed. The samo argument l_lPPhc" to many other trades which are not ~ncludc,;_l in the schedule under this Bill. LJndor clause 44 the Government mav bv Order. in Counci!, ,apph- thP prm-isio'n's ci'f the Bill to practJCat!y any industry or call­mg :VIthm the State. I intend to road this particular clause_

The SPK\KER: Tho hon. member will not bo in order in reading the cl a use.

:Ylr. FOLEY' If the provisions of this clause arc extended, as I have just suggested, minors empioycd in the sugar indu,trv who, on reachinc: the ago of eighteen yea;s, are now pa1d the adult rate of \vage can be placed in the category of minors and employed at a reduced rate of wage deter­mined by the now executiYe. The provisions of this clause might also be applied to the pastoral indnstry, which is also not included in the schedule of this Bill. As a result many lads now working in that industry under very fa.vourablo conditions will, as in the case of the sugar industry, be forced

to work as minors at a reduced rate of wage; and, as I have previously pointed out, no increasA in tho number of apprentices or minor" will result from the reduction in the wag-e. The principles of this clause are ,-ita! to the intere,ts of the children of the State. Instead of being a step forward indudtrially, it is a retrograde one. If the Minister has found that the present laws regarding apprentices are not working as smoothly as they should, then it is quite open for him to bring down an amending Bill to bring about an improvement in the exjsting law.

It is a retrograde step to introduce amendments such as are embodied in the Bill now under discussion, whereby rates of pay and other conditions will be so detrimentally affected that the objective which the ::\Iinister claims will be achieved will not materialise. The Let:der of the Opposition pointed ont that the executive is to be given authority to determine the rates of pay and conditions of apprentices, although that power is now v"'sted in the Board of Tr,,dc and Arbitration. Notwith­"tanding that the Board of Trade and Arbitration has dealt with those questions, and despite the disadvantages which the ~1inister claims have resulted from that system. the number of apprentices in QueensLmd has increased from 1,564 in tho year 1923 to 5,594 in 1928-ancl that during a period when it could not be said that oYer-prosperous conditions prevailed. Under those circulTJf'tancc:-., ho\v can it be sug­gested that the present system has failed, a,nd that, as th, recult of the fixation of wages and conditions by the Board of Trade and Arbitration, employers have been unable to c,urv on? The mere fact that the numbl"r of a pprcnticc , has increased substantiates my nrgmnent that the existing syst<>m is perfect!:- ,atisfactory. I regret exceedingly that it has been considered ncccstmr:'-T to bring- about an alteration in this legislation.

\Ve on this side of the House are desirous that the av<'ragc boy should b0 employed l'ather than that he should walk the streets; but the ::\1inist<'r's suggestion that the present position has been brought about by the fixation of VI ages and conditions is totallv Prroncous. when ;c remernbcr t.ho importarit factors th:1t must be considered. I refer to the general trade depc·eosion, the ever­incrt<1sing use of labour-saving devices, and the increased number of boys and girls seek­ing profes,ions and skilled trades owing to the improYcrl educational facilities avaiLble. Those arc all factors to be considered when examining the existing congPstion of appren­tices and minors in the labour market. The GoYernment would have been well advised to retain the present apprentic( ohip legislation, which has served a.; " model for other States of the Commoi<v·oalth hen dealing with apprenticeship matters. Much more could be done bv the GoYcrnment concen­h·ating upon the ~dult population and solving the unemployment problem in that regard, o.nd by buildinc; up the industries which they claimed would be built up shortly after their accession to nowcr. If thev would concen· trato upon tiwsc lines, the'~ would get the co-operation of the Opposition in b:ing·ing about a state of affairs that would automati­cally solve the problem of the boys and girls at present walking the streets out of work.

Jir. Foley.]

2234 Apptenlices and 1\>iinors Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Apprentices aad Aiinors Bill.

M:r. COLLI~S (Bowe:,): I listened very attentively to the Secretary for Labour and Ir;dustry \dwn he moved the second reading of this Bill, and 1 regret very much that he did not dPal with the principle·; contained iu the Bill. To some extent he gave us a survey of cociety as it exists to-day. He alco stated in the course of his speech that "·c could uovcr be e.ll skilled workers. I u.nde:rst tnd that a certain amount of training id required in order to bocon10 a skilled worku·. In the first place, one must pa"s through a State school or some higher edLlCa­tional in:;titution, and then, uftor learning a trade, lu~) i~ clu.~sed. as a skilled worker. I c,m pne of those who had very few oppor­tuniti._-s so far as schooling 'vas con­cerned. I gr.•duated in a far greater uni­versity tha11 Cambridgf·, Oxford, J\1elbournc, or the Sydney Universities, I was one who graduated through the university of adver­eity, but I ha vo had the pleasure on more than one occasion of working alongside n1en who had pa> .ed through one of the educa­tional in~,titntions mrntioncd by mo. The Minister was very emphatic that wo could not all bo skilled "·orkers. I claim that to-day " curtain amount of skill is required ia any n1anncd work. I-iils the ho:n. gcntlmnan ever w d~__·hL·d a navvy doing the battering in conn( ,:tion w-ith a big raih~'ay cutting? Does 1 lw~ >York not require skill? Of course it roqair,· so1nc skill; yet it is not clas-,ed a skillu' \. vrk.

The ::1-Iini ·id' seemed to think that in the futur.. we ould have more apprentices trained than it would be possible to find \YOrk for. \\'hat is going to happen? As t go to and from Parliament House, I \YJ.tch 1·cn·y closely the children g·oing to and from the techni< :d college, and I often ask myself this question : ' \Vhat is the icLal of the parents of those children or of tlw. children thernsrl.-l.s.? Is it n1erely to escape useful work? Are "·c goiug to train our children t<> becorn \rh at thc'y call "skilled workers"'! rr that is the ideal of our young children, then the have a very poor outlook indeed. Somebody has to do what has been termed the " dirtv work ' of the world-the useful 1vork. I quite realise that under prdent conditions of society, due to the improved educational system, parents have 11ighcr aspirationo than had parents in the past. They want their children to be in what thev eall the " respectable " grades of society; they want iheir children to be mechanics, artisans, doctors, lawyers, and so on. \Vho is going to do the useful work of the world and produce our foodstuffs if they are all to I e skilled workers? Wo can see what ;, going to happen, and to some extent l welcome it. Maybe I shall not live long enough to "eo it, but I welcome it. Keep on training the children, and the day will come when they will be irainod to mch a pitch that the industrie.l field will be so over­crowded with skilled workers that there will be no work for them. Then thev will com­mence to ask themselves the que'•tion as to 1vhat r_ights they have in present-da~· society; and it Js from ihem that those who are termed ihe organisers will come, owing to the fact that they have had a superior training; and the result will be the overthrow of tho society which exists to-day.

At the back of all the Bills introduced by the prevent Government is the doctrine of ex­ploitation. That is the basis on which modern society is founded. Even behind the measure with which we are now dealing the doctrine

[Mr. Collins.

of exploitation is apparent-some persons are going to be exploited. I have. no '?bjec­tion to human progress. I can 1magme a shto of society where a pe1·son ·with all _the culture known to man could swmg a piCk. nse :tn axe, or follow tho plough, but would be none the worse citizen on that account. I have had to pa·'s through socidy and mix with all classes of persons in '!'Y career as a miner. I have worked alongs1de universitY n1cn, carpenters, and ?t~or nrtisanc. who haYe had to work at mmmg in davs 'gono by because there was no work for tEcrn at their O\Yn trades. They were uot worso workmen because tl.ey had had that training. Later on, when tim~s i1nprovod, they were again able to folJOY\,' their trades.

The point I want to make is that this Bill i.~ not going to turn out as the J\linister anticipates in regard to finding work for the boys and girls. Let boys and girls be trained to do useful work. V\'hile th.,y 111fLY

]lOsses> all the culture pocsible, there is J:othing wrong in a girl doing household "·orlc Somebodv has to wash up the dishes; · omcbody has to plough the fields and. ,;ow the corn. Even the l'remicr of the State did not consider it beneath his dignity to milk cow,; for the production of milk and butter. Gencraliy you get intelligent men working at the plough. I consider that iho liberal professions are getting over­crowded. Even the Attorney-General will have to admit that there is more competition now in the law than there was fifteen or twenty ye:1rs ago. I saw the other day that u. whole group of men were admitted to the Lar. Those arc the men who are going to come into Parliament later on, and perhaps Slwcccd better than \YO have done. I bave no objccticn to training being given to young pcople-I \Yclcome it. I would not have been a worse miner if I had had the training \, hich i.3 going to he given under this ,\pprenticeship Bill; but I do not consider that this is going to solve the problem at all. The Goverument should carrv out what they have promised. I have read a specrh by the hon. member for ::\Iaroc. Mr. Todman, reported in the "Telegraph" of 3rd J\1ay, 1929, which containPd these words-

" It >Yas the intention of the Country and Progressive :"J ational Party to borrow £2.000.000 for the immediate relief of unemplo··ment in Queensland. This was not ., statement ' off his own bat,' but would be made by Mr. Moore before polling-day."

The hon. member for ]'\Iaree was " in the know"; perhaps he knew more than the Premier.

The PRK\llER: He did.

1\Ir. COLLI:'\S: ~\t any rate, if he got the £2,000,000, that "ould be finding work fm· the fathers of these children.

I do not intend to speak at any great length on this measure. I just got up to oxpre·c·s my Yiews with respect to modern society. a' tho Minister gaye us his views in connection with it.

The SECRETARY FOR MINES : Are you posing as the exponent of society?

1\Ir. COLLI:"JS: V'l'hat does the hon. gen· tleman mean by that? I have always kept mvself to the class to which I belong-the working class. I come from the working class, and I shall remain with the working

Apprentic.:s and 11Iinors Bill. [12 DECEMBER.] Apprentices and Minors Bill. 2235

class all my life; I am too old to change now. At any rate, I can s"e, as a friend of mine said, good coming out of evil. From tho training of these young women you can look for--

Mr. KmwAN: Trouble. l\1;·. C.OLLI:-.JS: Yes, you can look for

trouole m a sense. You can look to the overthrow of the present form of modern socidy, which-you cannot get awav from it -is b~ocd on the exploitation· of the worker.

I hope that, when the Minister gets up to reply, he will deal with some of th-e

arguments that have been used [11.38 a. m.] b' members on this side of the

Ho~se. Or,e of t_he most masterly spee\·he.; to which I have !lad the pleasure of bstemng was made last niuht bv tho Leader of the Opposition. " •

0PPOSITIO;-.r J\1nmERS : Heat, hear ! lHr. COLLINS: He proved rirrht up to

t\w hilt that he knew the history ~f appren­~Iccship L i,luecnsland, and that to ali Inter..;_ts flnd purposcg ho l::nev n1ore about the Biil than tlH; ~\linister who introduced It.

Mr. BIL\SSI"':GTO~ (Brzlonnr): I havo searched ihe mC'asurc no'v before tho I-Iouso to find so•'lC < -cid,,ncc of the fulfilment of the Go' ern~_lent.'~ pron1isc to flnd 'vork fol" our boys and girls; but I find th<tt it offers them no doGnitc opporhmit> to achieve that object. I 'raJOt to remind members of tho Govenun0nt of . i be many sol0mn promises they nlEalc dun_ng the election campaign. I want to remind them of their famous slogan, wnich was posted up in most of the thorou;:hfares throughout the city calling upon the people to " Give our bon 'and girls a chance!'' V

r:ovEmomxT :\1EoiBERS: Hear, hear ! . Ml'. DRASSINGTON: What opportuni·

ties are t? be gn'en to. O'lr boys and girls by tins Bill? The MmiRtPr who introduced this measure .. \vhen. speaking one night at R,andgate) t:rud dunng a flood of spurious ,eloquence-

" I fcecl !hat the dark hours :1,ro about to encl. I feel that the dawn is at hand."

He went on lo sav that at last tlJe boys and girl,; of this State w re to receive tho opportunity the) deserved. At Brighton on. 7th April, 1929, the hon. gentl.eman Sllld-

" '1'hose who were in employment had no ••eme of security in their jobs, and. therefore. even their outlook for the futuro was not too bright.

" His party proposed lo reduce tha payment of mmnbe,·s of Parliament bv £18.000 This sum (with interest\ would give his party's Government £600,000, and by returning to tho contract system in building schools several hundred thousand should be added to tho economy he outlined_ A school like the one. tl" y were in-15 feet by 20 feet­{Jstmg £500 was absurd. (Hear, hear!)

"In that way a fund of £700,000 could be created, when, instead of doles they could pay a third frc,m the fund to the \\ages pool, thus providi'lg men with employment and giving a better objec­tive than doles to "-ork for. That with subsidiary economies could in the long run save fully £2,000,000."

Accordinr- t.o the "Telegraph,'' the Deputy Lender of the Government, when speaking rtt. Grcomlopes on lhe night of 9th May, sa1d-

"JVIr. J\Ioor<e has alrcadv outlined his proposal whereb·; nearly £2,000,000 will be expended throughout the State to rclicnl unemployment.''

Another hon. gentleman on the other side y·ho has had a lc.t to say nbout the promises which the Gm·ernment have honoured--the Attorney-General-said-

" For the unemployed the Government had not done things in the right \vo..y.,

IIA was, of cOUl'cC, referring to the late Government. Then he said-

" The Country and Progreesive ::'\ation·d Party had propounded a s.Jhen1e whereby, on being returned io power, it would find ,,-ork for 10,000 men in the space of a few moHtns. Its policy, too, :could ensw·c the revinLl of sr--".:;ondary industries."

\\'here, oh where, ar9 those 10,000 jobs, and where is the £2,000,000 that w:cs to be made available in a few months'! \Yhere arc the opportunities for onr bo0 s and girls through­•-.:-t the State'! \Yhen ,_-., con.ider these thiugs, it is apparent to eYerybddy that the propaganda indulged in by hon. members npposi~.e 'Sas of the basest and n1ost dcspic· able nature. It was merely a f:lham and d.·lusion to secure political support. They c xploited one of the noblest traits in human :_nture-the parent_,' love for thci1~ children. Thcv shculd Le- ash. med of thenlsclve-; for c·spioiting that fine trait. To-day, after fool­ii<g the parents of this State. they can do 11othing for ihcir boy<;; and girls. Thc-v have le oken faith absolutely with those par8nts. C'oula we ha-ce an:' greater example of politi­cal sidestepping and political trickery than th'· promi2es 1nadc by hon. n1c1nbcrs oppo­.-ite? They have deceived the parents and the boys and girls. and httYC shown utter diorcgard of the solemn promises made. The actioi " of hon. m em ben, opposite constitute ilH' worst examplu of political bribery that this State has ever known. They have exploit,,d the hopes and cxpectatiom; of a large numhor of parents throughout the Sute, who foolishly believed that the Go­vernment "-ould find jobs for their boys and girls.

In deoling· with the measure before the Hou5-c, I propose, first, to refer to the criti­cism le-;ellcrl agaimt the apprenticeship scheme introduced by the la to Government, ·,nd. second, to dc,al ,,-\t.h the criticism \,•veiled at the latP Government.. Hon. mem· bers opposite would haw us belieYe that the apprenticeship scheme introduced by the Labour Government has failed absolutely to provide opportunities for the boys and girls o[ the State; but such is not the case.

It would be well for me to examine the real position, and it would be well for me h> sLte that :-.Jew Zealand to-dav has an <1pprenticcship ,cheme> similar to the scheme c;,erating in this State. I also remind hon. members opposite that Victoria, \Vestern Australia, and other States of the Common· '·' ealth sent special delegations to this State io inquire into the apprenticeship scheme op"rating here. with a view to its adoption in the hope of solving the difficult problem of "pprenticeship in their respective States; and I am pleased to say that the States concerned

Mr. Brassington.)

2236 Apprentices and Minors Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Apprentices a11d 2\1inors Bill.

have adopted the Queensland scheme with minor alterations. In view of that fact, can it be honestly claimed by hon. members opposite that the echeme introduced by the late Go­vernment was useless? On the contrary, the actions of other States indicate that, instead of our echcme being use]ec.s, it is regarded ns the most progressive scheme in the ·,,·oriel to-day, otherwise it would not have been readily adoptPd by those States.

In dealing with the problem of appren· ticeship it must be borne in mind that Queensland is faced with many difficulties. The fir,t difficL!ltv is that a large number of boys are anxiou; to he trained in industry, but only a limited number of opportunities present themselves to the boy; of the State. It is obvious that, until this State estab­lishes a number of secondarv industries and ihose industric'l are in a f!ourisi1ing condition, th<> problem of training our boys in industry will be a mos~ difficult one. Until that time any s:• stem mtroduced by this or an'· other Government will not en­tirely overcome the difficulties confronting us in the matl er of providing employment and training for the boys and girls of the State. I wish to stress that industry to-day can ubsorb only a limited number of boys and girls; and, if the intention of the Govern· ment to increase the number of apprentices and minors is <'arried into effect, the natural corollarv must be the displacement of a large niunber of adult workers who arc in employment in the State to-day. If the Goyerllment ar0 desirous of ho!:!_ourinp; their promise' along those line,, then it will have the effect, while finding work for the boys and girls. of putting out of employment their fath'ers, so that the polic" osill defeat itself and bring us back to the position we arc in to-day.

Another qtH stion which cannot b-' over· loolwd is that industry can on!)' assimilate a cortain number of tradesmen, and that in the future a certain number of trade··men only will be required, who will need to be protected. That is to say, a number of apprentices sufficient only to meet the futuro requirements of industry will have to b" apprenticed each year. Any other policy must create a glut in the labour market, and be nllsAti·.·factorv to tradesmen and appren­tices ali]{c. It \vill be unsatisfactory bee a use we shall have no opportunities to offer a largo n1~mbcr of tradesmen, as industry will not be a blo to absorb them. That point is worthv of the serious consideration of the Gover'nmcnl. It should direct the Govern­ment's poli<Y of the future. That "·ould be a snfe- polic:". and not' rt ·mlt in t11e chaos and confusion which the present policy "·ill create.

'While our apprenticeship system is not perfect, it hc,s achieved good results. Its alleged serious defects are more political than real. \Vhen hon. members opposite sat on this side of th0 House. thc•v seized every opportunity of dwelling "on the little woaknocses of the apprenticeship scheme, which wen c-apitalised to the dio· advantage of the late Government. Hon. members opposite then indulged in continued propaganda against tho scheme; but the carp­ing c; it:ici~m was directed more with the idea of destroying the late Gowrnmeut than of assisting the scheme. I have in mind 11everal cases which were brought under mv notice. One day a boy came to me and t•cported that he had been offered a position a~ an apprentice with a certam firm. p!O­vidod he secured permission to become inden·

[ Jl1·. Bmssingion.

tured. The father of the boy made inve,ti­gations of the offer, and found that no such offer was available. After a thorough invPsti­gation, he found that the practice of this employer was to sav to the lad, "I can give vou a place, provide·d you can get permission from the Government to accept the position." This employer know definitely that he had no position to offer the boy, and he also knew that, when the application of the boy w be indentured, prompted by himself, was refused, the result would be some amount of bitterness and dissatisfaction against the apprenticeship system. That is how so much unpopularity was worked up against the scheme. In effect, that employer said to the boy, "I gave you the opportunity to learn a trade, and the Goyernment in power would not allow you to take it." BY that means much hostility was engendered, not only against the scheme, but against the late Government-a hostility which was not merited, and did them a lot of harm.

Before the conclusion of the second reading stage we desire to urge upon the Minister the necE·'lsity o£ honouring the promises made during the election campaign. \Vo want to· sec included in thi'l Bill a definite principle that will give the boys and girls an oppor· tunit:-- to secure work, and to enter indu·,try and learn trades. That opportunity is not given in this measure, and to prove that assertion I shall examine some of the main principle .... of the Bill, from which it will be geen that there will be very few opportuni­ties for boys and girls to learn trades when this system becon1es operative. The Bill pro­vides that the fixation of wages and conditions and the general welfare of apprentices and minors will be taken a"·av from the court, the rccogniocd authority c"reated to do that work, and will be vested in a committee to be constituted of three representatives each from the employers and employees and two GoYC'l"llnlcnt rcprc- r>ntatives. That constitu· tion com·inc~s us that the altered conditions ure nothing n1ore or less in c~scnce than an endf'a' our to rnake ayailable a large amount of child labour for the ben0fit of friends of hon. members opposite. Firstly, there is equal representation un that committee for em­plovers and employee•s. Then we have the two G-o~~ernn1cnt rcprcscnt.atiYP'), and it ma:v be claimed by hon. members opposilc that those t·epresentatives will be appointed to hold the scale' of ju·tice evenl7 between_ the parti''· I view the change w1th suspwwn, because I have in mind the defimtc antJ. working-class attitude of the Government no\\ in power. It appears to me that the two Government reprcsentativu will bo ~ll1 the committP" to carry out j he deflmtc polic·v of the Government to the last letter. \Ye ha.-e had examples of the Government's r)Qlicy in the suspension of an a'yard of an industrial tribunal whereby the rural workers _,·ere deprived of the benefits of an award, whilst recJently the Government passed the Industrial Conciliation and Arbitration Bill, whi( h takes awav rnanv rights and privileges which the work;rs at ·present enjoy. In the li rrht of those facts, it c-mnot be seriously aJ:'gncd that tho Goyern1nent's poli<.::y is in favour of the \YOrking n1an in Industry to­day, so that it can safely be assumed that the Government repre,cntatiyes will be there to put into dfect the policy of the Govern· ment, which is, in essPnce, the exploitation of the workers of this St:>tc. With a corn· mittee constituted on the lines I have stated

Apprentices and J11inors BW. [12 DECEMBER.] Apprentices and 2~Iinors Bill. 2237

-which in effect mGaus a voting power of five to th:·en in favour of the employers­how can we expect fair treatment of appren­tices and minors, especially "'\Yhen we know that hon. members opposite have done everything th.Jy possibly could to weaken the existing sp,tem of apprenticeship? In the light of the failure: of the Government to honour their definite promises, the people of the State will not place too much reliance in the ccmstitution of these com­mitke-- in so far as justice is to bo done to the bo,·s and girls engaged in industry.

Under this measure an unlimited supply of minors -_,·ill bo made available. The term " minor" is a. very wide one. The defini­tion is applied to any person under twenty­one years of age who is employed or en­aaaed in the industries specified m th• ~chedule. \Ye find on further examination of the measure that power is given to the Governor in Conn~il to alter or anH~nd the ochcdulc. It is po:o,ible that the Governor in Council, at the request of hon. members .opposite, may bring under the schedule . of the Act manv incimtrics that are not m­ciudcd to-dav." There is also provision in !he mcasuru to ·create what will be known as "young journeyrnen," \Yho will be compelled to y.·ork for a period of eighteen months at a lower wage than the award rate. 'What is the object of creating this special class .of employee, who will bo between the apprentice and the full-time tradesman? At

the end of live vears a lad should have leamed his trarle sufficiently weil to enable him to go into induotry and earn a full tradesman's wage. There is no sound argument •'>hy this provision should be contained in the Bill. I say veru definitely that the cry of the , mployers in this State for many years that the ::outh coming out of his apprenticeship is not as good as the tradesman in industry has been heeded by the Government, who nre giving tho employers yet another con­cession on top of the many concessions already granted; and they are going to force 0 oung journeymen to work for less than the a ward rate of ages during a period of f ighte8n months. It is provided in the Bill that for the first six months these young journeymen shall receive 70 per cent. of the award rate; for the second six months 80 per cont. of the award rate; and for the third six months 90 per cent. of the award rate. In other words, for a period of eighteen months these young journeymen, v.lthous-h they may be able to do any job, are to work for leso than the awa~d rates. That is another concession to the employers; ;vet hon. mombers opposite want us to believe that the Go;-ernmont do not stand for the <exploitation of the worke!·s of this State.

Under this measure no award or regula­tion of the Industrial Arbitration Court shall "pply to any minor employed through­<mt the State of Queensland. It is also laid down that every minor must register with the Executive Committee constituted under the Act. The measure practically lays it down ulso that there shall be uo limitation in the number of minors. That means that any num~}er of minors can be emplo:ced in an industry. Let us follow that to its logical conclusion. If there is to be an unlimited supph- of minors~ it must affect the labourers in industr'. Many minors between the ages of eighteen years and twenty-one years are as good workmen as men over the age of twenty­one years; and it naturally follows that em­ployers will give preference to the employ-

ment of minors between the age,. of seventeen and twenty-one years, as thee· will not have to pay them the award rate. That opens the door to the e-,c~ploitation of minors in iudustry throughout Queensland. There can l,c no argument adduced by the Minister to show that such is not premeditated by the Government. The whole of the provi­.ions of the Bill suggest that careful con­sideration has boon given to the question of making antilable an unlimited number of boys med girls to be employed at cheap rates in the industries of the State.

Before the proposal is put into effect, let me q11ote the position in other conntries to-clay. In Amerir -1 there are more bov~, and girls under the ago of twenty-one employed in industry than adults over the age of forty year;:;.

The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR A-'ID INDUSTRY: I do not' bolie.-c that.

:'\Ir. BRASSINGTO:c\: The .. ame applies to adults over the age of twenty-one years. The Minister tays he does not believe my state­ment, but in proof I shall quote an extract from the report of the Indnstrial Delegation appointed by the CommonwPalth Government which visited America some years ago to investigate industrial < Jllclitions there. On page 7 of the report I find t;1i ,-

" The age distribution in 1920 was as follows:-

Per cent. Nineben .rears and under ... Twenty years to forty-four

:;-ears . . . .. Fortv-five vears Pnd o.-er Unknown -~-

40.6

38.4 20.8

.2 '' That proves that there are more bo,-s and girls employed in industry in America than adults between the ages of twenty and fO>·ty, four years. It- also proyes that there are nearly twice as n,an.r boys and girls employed in industry as tlwre arc ad nlts over the age of forty-five years; yet the J'.linister endeavours to defend the sntom he is intro­ducing which aims at creating that state of things.

:Mr. :.V1AXWELL: It does not aim at anything of the sort, and you know it.

Mr. BRASSI~GTON: As I said before, I Yiew e'en- action of the Government with suspicion, "and I have ground for that when I think of the suspension of the rural '' odmrs' award-which has deprived 4,000 \V eo tern workers of the protection of the a\\a.rd-ancl the introduction of the Indus­trial Conciliation and Arbitration Bill, which takes avYay from the workers of this State practically every concession they ha Ye enjoyed under the old n1easure.

In conclusion, I desire to say that an examination of this Bill proves that it will not create opportunities for our boys and girls. Owing to the limited number of oppor­tunities in this State if more boy.s and girls are to be placed iu industry, it naturally follows that their fathers will be without work. Despite the fact that hon. members opposite protest against it, it naturally fol­lows that Queensland will develop along the oame linos as America; and we shall fmd that exploitation of child. labour will take place, and there will be more boys and girls than adult workers employed in our indu,tries.

JJJr. Br,;s.~ington.]

2238 Apprentices and Minors Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Apprentices and 1'>1inors Bill,

I, for one, desire to see the Government honour the many promises they made during the election campaign.

:Mr. BLACKLEY: \Ve are doing it now. Mr. BRASSINGTO~: It is no use wast­

ing time in trying to put up a policy of make-believe. The Government claim they have honoured their promises, but we say they have not done so, ar,d hero is an example of how they have failed to fL1d opportunities for our boys and girls. Under this measure there is little hope for the largo numbers of boys and girls whom we see in the street outside paFsing to and from the University when they reach the time" when they should go out into life and battle fer themselves. It will remain for the Go,·er,tment I sup­ported to come back again into power, and give the boys and girls the chances which they gave them in the past.

Question-" That th~ Bill be now "read a second time "-put and passed.

Co:-.rMITTEE.

U~Ir. Roberts, East 'l'oowoomba, in the chair.) Clause l agreed to. Clause 2-" Ilepcal of the Apprenticeship

Acts, 1924 to 1927; Sat·ings; .!wards, etc."-

Mr. DASH UUundingburra): Subclause (5) provides-

" 1\ioreovcr, all awards, orders, and industrial agreements made pursuant to the Industrial Arbitration Acts, 1916 to 1926, so far as the same extend and apply to apprentices, probationers, and minors, and in force ut the commence­ment of this Act. shall (except so far as ths,; aro iucon-:,1stG::t y~:ith tho provisions of thic Act) continue in force until varied, rescinded, or super.'"Jded by this Act."

I "'ould like to know whether agreements of apprenticuhip which have been entered into prior to the passing of this I3ill will remain in for~''3 until they are rescinded or varied, and \chether the _\pprenticeship Executive may fix a lo\H:r rate of ·wages than those provic.kd in the agrer 1 '~~nt<3, unlc:,3 with tho

consent of th~ parties concerned. [12 noon] If the executive fixes wages lo\Yer

than tho,,e proscribed by the Industrial Court, will that affect the present agreements and conditions? I know that, so far as hours are concerned, there is to be no alteration b,- the executive, which, how­ever, is the authority that will fix wages.

The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND INDUSTRY (Hon. H. E. Sizer, Sandgate) : No decision of an industrial board will affect the wages of apprentices at all; and the object of this clause is to allow agreements to r· main in force uLtil the Act comes into operation. Then matters will be dealt with in accordance with the procedure proscribed.

~Ir. DASH (Jiundingb11rra): Will the wages the appl~cnticcs are receiving at pre­sent be subject to alteration by the execu­tive?

The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND INDUSTRY: Yes.

Mr. DASH: It does not say that. Clause 2 agreed to.

Clause 3-" lnterpntation "-Mr. HY:t';ES ('l'oc"nsvi/lc): I cortainly do

lilot approve of this clause. I distinctly regret that the Minister has rtltcrcd the existing

f 11l1'. Brassington.

definition of " n1inor." Thjs definition widens the scope of the apprenticeship law to cover unskilled industriBs, which hitherto did not come within the functions of the Appr·entictship Executive or group comn1it­teos. This is an indication to me that the l'eal object behind this Bill i::; to 1uake pro­vision for the employm,mt of cheap labour in unskilled indmtry. The existing defini­tion of " n1inor " is-

" 'Minor ' 1neans a person under twenty-one years of age who is empioyed or engaged in any trade or industry, and who cmtomarilv \vorks under the direetiou of or in association -with an employer, master, or journeyman, in such trade or industry. upon the material and with the tools or implements used in such trade or industry."

That means that the Apprenticeship Act can apply only to what might be termed h'mdi­craft trades. A boy must be engaged under a master or a journeyman in order to learn his trade. The definition in the Bill reads-

" A person under twenty-one years- of age who is employed or engaged in any trade or industry to which this Act a,pplies.''

The awards relating to the sugar industry, ''·at er and sewerage work, and to other unskilled trades provide that the adult wage shall be paid to persons eighteen, nineteen, [lnd twenty-one }'(''ars of age. Is it pro­posed by the Bill to employ these persom under twenty-one years of ag2 as minors? It so, it will mean a considerable reduction in their pay, and a ver~- great wrong and e. very great disservice \Yill be done to those functioning in thosn, industries. I should like an assurance from the ~Iinister that it is not intended that the persons concerned will be regarded as minon in the industries to which I have referred.

The definition of " Trade " in the Appren­ticeship Act readc-

" ' Trade ' means any calling, craft~ or trade for the }Jm·pose of being instructed in the knowledge and pn,ctice of which apprentices may be bound by agreement under this Act."

The definition in this Bill reads-" Any calling, craft, or trade to which

this Act applies."

U ndcr that the Minister will have the right at any time to add any calling to the Fchedule of the Bill, which means that any trade, industry, or calling carried on in !he State to-clay may at any time be brought within the scope of the Bill. That will leave the way open for u.nscrupulous employ_ers to sweat people who are to- day enJoymg decGnt "\'ntgcs nnc1 conditions. The a'\Yards to which I h ~, vo referred provide for an adult wage fo1· persons eighteen and nine­teen years of age; but I take it that it will nov" be posoible to employ those persons as rninors in the industries to which I havo referred. In some of the industries the wages of juniors are fixed on the b,tsis of cxperi­{·nce. Taking the shop assistants' a\vard for the Northern division as an example, a lad commcnci11g work at fourteen ycL~rs of age is entitled to the adult wage at twenty years of age; but the Bill will permit an employer to employ a. lad fat seven years before he receives the full adult \Yage.

The SECRETARY FOR LABOUil \ND INDl!STRY : Shop assi,;tants are not apprenticed.

Apprentices and "'liinor.s Rill. [12 DECE~IBER.] Apprentices and JVIinors Bill. 2239

Mr. HYNES: It can be prescribed that minors shall be employed under the condi­tions that I ha \'G outlined. That is the objectionable feature of the clause. The intention behind tho Bill is to open the way to the various mnployers' associations, who have for many years desired the oppor­tunity to employ minors who are really men. .\ny young man eighteen or nineteen years of ago working iu an unskifled trado is juot as capable of earning the adult wage r,' a man thirty-one or forty-one years of age. It givee them the opportunity of sccm·­ing cheap labour. Will tho Minister inform this Committee whether the intention in wiaening the definitions referred to is to allow this Bill to coYcr unskilled trades which hithHto our labour laws have not covered.

Mr. DUNLOP (Iioc!.:hampton): I rise to protest against the definition of " junior journeyman." I am up against any pro­vision which will allow any employer to exploit a junior employee for a period. of eighteen months after that employee's penod of o.ppronticeship has terminated. The defini­tion is contrary to the principles of one of our most honoured industrial bodies­Immcly, the Amalgamated Society of Engineers.

:i-1r. W. FORGAN S2'.1ITH (Jiackay): Tf,~re are one or t\vo features in connection with this clause to which I must draw atten­tion. The definition of " improver" is a proper ono. but it varies from the deflnition in the existing law, which reads-

" ' Improver '-An employee who, by direction of the court given in his case, i'3 serving at a special wage a period of training with an employer for the pur­pose of becoming a qualified worker in a calling."

The clause we are considering omits the Y."ords "by direction of the court given in his case." That is du to the fact that it is r;roposed under this Bill to remove from the Board of Trade ar\d Arbitration the pre~ent authority, and invest that authori+.y h ths .~:\.pprenticcship E··~:ccutiYc. 'rhat is 'vorthy of note in view of what I am going to say later on.

.i\. " junior journeyman '' is defined as-

" A person who has completed the period of apprenticeship prescribed by the executive, but who is serving a further period not exceeding eighteen months in order to become proficient in his trade."

To those who have followed skiiled trades these two definitions are likeh to cause con­fusion and difficult;,-. In my second reading speech I pcinted out that there was ample provision :n the law as it now stands to deal with an individ•:,al who, at the end of his period of apprenticeship, has not become a thoroughly qualifled workman. If a lad has not been given a fair deal in his trainjng pc;"iod, and, if ho is not qualified at the end of flvc years sufficiently to entitle him to the fnll rate of wages, he is likely to be e1nplo:yod only during a very busy period in the trade; but thNe are circumstance'! in \Yhich it is notessary to give a further period of training, and that is proYidcd for in the existing law. _\s a matter of fact, the best tr-aining of apprentices is given by small • f1rms, where the ('tnploycr v·orks with hjs employees or personally supervises the busi­ness. That is the best business to send a

Lo"' to for the purpose of learning a trade. If vou take the history of apprenticeship, you will find that feature emphasised throughout tlw piece.

The first reference to apprenticeship that I can find was made b~ King Hammurabi, in Babyion. It is to be found in a very interesting public~tion issued by the Hationalist Press Association, and is also q"oted iu one of my speeehes. In the year 2100 JJ.C. King Hammurabi set out in his industriul code that, if an employer did not teach a boy engaged by him a trade, then that boy umld return to his f>1thcr, or, in other words, the indentures \Vt.!re cancelled. It would appear th->t at that time the status of master ·and apprentice was that of father 11nd son, the master teaching· the apprentice the skilled craft concerned to th<' full extent of his own knowledge. Undoubtedly, much ~kill was sho\~'n jn certain directions in those days-much more so than at the present time. The Statute of Artificers passed in England in 1562 is the real starting point of appren­ticeship so far as the British Empire is con­cerned; and that law in itself was merely the codifieation of practices that were regu­lated by the craft guilds. The law was amplified and extended during the Elizabethan period, with the result that there \\as built up a sy otem of training boys which culminated in tho establishment of a supply of skilled artisans. and enabled Britain to become the great manufacturing and export­ing country into which she has d,eveloped. In tho ,n da.vs the master, as ho was known, was responsible for the training of his apprcn­lice, to whom he stood really in loco parentis. It is desirable that such a relationship ohould exist, bt_,.~~usc, \vhcre a large number of rnen aro employed in a large undertaking, there is not that personal contact with the boy 1•hich makes so much for biB success. I have se en ca-;e' in a large snip building yard where l·oys paid little or no attention to the early period of their training and commenced to r- aliso that too late. Under the existing iaw there is sufficient power to deal with such a poeition, because the Apprenticeship Committee dcah with each case, and, if satis­fied that at the end of the prescribed period the training of an apprentice is not eom­pkte, th<e committee can recommend to the Board of Trade and Arbitr-ttion that an imp1·oycr's certificate shali be issued. That certificate is granted under conditions agreed r•pon bct\Veen the Apprenticeship Committee and the Board of Trade and Arbitration.

The existing le~Sisl a.tion provides sufficient power to deal with all legitimate uroblerns that can arise in this connection, so ·that the suhcbuse of the Bill dealing with "junior journeymen " is not required. It is indeed an open invitation for unscrupulous em­pioyers to take advantage of the vouthful character of the journeyman. A YOung man may apply for a job as a carpenter, fitter, 01· anything else. He may be twenty-one years of age, but may look more youthful than ordinarily. ·work is not too plentiful, < nd the employer says to that young man, "You are pretty young, and ·:ou appear not to have had a great deal of experience. J f you are prepared to ork for a year at thL rah for junior journeymen, I am pre­par d to give you a job." That young man L. · y not learn a,nything, even jf he does 'ccuro employment under those circumstances whilst the employer gnts the advantage of a Journeyman's labour at less than the prescribe l value o£ that labour. I have

Jl1r. Smith.]

2240 Apprentices and 1'\llinors Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Apprentices and Minors Bill.

known cior'lF of such casos. Anvono who has followed n skilled trade and ·is honest with this Committee knows that that was the position prior to the legislation now on the stntute-book. Personally, I was never taken advantage of. I completed my apprentice­,hip at nineteen years of age, and my em­ploy~r gaYe me the full rate for journeymen strair(ht a>vay. Ho was aver:: fine old gentle­nlan, for '.-;bmn I have a very great regard, allCl with y.·hom I stiil correspond. I mention that to show that, where an omplo.~- er takes an m to:·' .t in an apprentice, it is of para­monnt nnportance. It is always better for th • 1Jo; to be trained where there are not larg. numbers employed because of that personal ass,Jciation.

Th0 clclinition of "minm· " i~ also altered. and I \rould like some information from the 1\'linister as to what is intended in reference to. :~1inor~. I ca11 conceive of the position

.nsrn,;;!' l:Pn~ 1an en1ployer has a.n appren-

tice rndr-nturcct under tho law as sot out under thi; Bill. The emplover 'has a direct rcspoll ibility to teach such a boy his trade. but >mder this m<'a·-ure he may also b~ 0ntitled to employ youths in regard to ,.-horn them u no corresponding obligation. He has two dJfferent sots of boys employed­one boy an apprentice who is entitled k lear!l the trade, and another boy who may be the same age, but in regard to \\"horn there is no such obligation.

Mr. B~ \•"KLEY: He will get a higher rate of wage m that c1se.

Mr. IY. FORGc\N SMITH: Ho mav get a higher rato of wage; but that ln>tv be due to the fact that he is doing work' that do< l not load to any future. Apprentices ha Ye to bo sent to a technical college to be trained in certain important matters in a,

<"alling; but none of i heso oblio-ations are on tho employer with regard t,;' the other :·outh. Ho may receive an adequate wag;·. for the ""''rk that he is doing· but there i, no obligation on the employer' for that boy to be taught his trade, nor can he qualify during any period to be admitted to the skilled tr,de. In that case you haYo a position arising of bays ha;-ing bePn in a ,l.,.radB or calling for a gi vcn period, and, when they attain manhood, not having been taught the trade at all, and becoming what is often described as H five-.,:-,lghths " trades­men-~men having a little more skill than a builder's labourer, but not sufficient ski!! to take their place in < vmpetition with the boy wlv;, has been taught his trade properly. In thif, ray boys may be led into " dead-end " accupations.

'I'here is also the possibility in cmmection with this clause of doing away with the existing· system of regulations and proviciing indu,try with the labour of youths indis­criminatolv at wage·;, perhaps, lc;s than the court v. ould award. Thuo are matt-ers on which I v:ould lib• information; but the <ehief danger that I see in this clause is that relating to junior journey.men.

11lr. FOLEY (Leichhrmlt): I would like Eomo information as to whothor there is any provision in the Bill t.hat wlll protect the ·-·ninor and the junior journeymen. Under the existing ,'>.et a boy serving his appren­ticeship 1nust pass certain Rpeciftcd e"Cami~ nations; and, after passing his final exe.mi­nation, he gets a certificate of coompetoncy from the Apprenticeship Board. After ;getting his certificate of competency, surely the boy is entitled to the full wage laid

[Jlr. Srm'th.

down under the Jndustrial Arbitration Act! Is there any y,rovision in the measure that will protect that iypo of lad against exploi­tation? Is there any provision whereby, 1f an employer desires to employ a lad as a young journeyman, he will first ha vn to apply to the esecutive. which will determine '' hrther the lad is sutliciently qualified to C'arry on work at the journeyman's rate of \\'ages? I understand from the ;dinister that, hefore an employer can engage a man as a young journeyman, he will have to g<et permission from the cxecuti·,o. If that 1s so, there app,.u·s to be some semblance of protection againot exploitation. I would like the Minister to explain under which clau~._) that protection is given.

Tho SECRETARY FOR LABOUR ~'I.ND IXDUSTRY (Hon. H. E. Sizer, Sandgatc): Th~ point has been raised by the Leader of the Opposition about the employer having two rates of pay for his employees. One of the things we h<cve to rcc,Jgaise is that, through the changes in industr~~, v1e cannot gi.-c eYerybod:· a skilled calling; but arc we to say that, because we cannot give a man a skilled calling, \YO will not give him any­thing?

:Mr. W. FORG.\N S>IIl'H : I am not arguing that.

The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND IXDUSTRY: I appreciate the hon. mem­ber's argument, which, boiled down, amounts to this : If wo cannot give a skilled calling b everyone, should we deba-r boys from work in an industry which is really boys' work, and deprive them of the possibility of graduating as journeymen, going up, "' they do in tho furniture trade, from the floor?

J\Ir. vV. FoRGAN SMITH: In the engine0l'­ing trade the greater number of journLymen come from the floor.

The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND I2\"DUSTRY : That is tho id~a. Unfort-1-nately, son1e ol'l;;:ers cannot get into a. skilled trade: therefore. if there are oppor­tunities for bo;;s in othC'r avenues, V1 hilr-t thev maY not be the best in the "orld, I arg'ue th;_t it is better for them to be work­ing there than to be doing nothing. It is the firm conviction of the Government that it is bc·tter for those bovs to be working at some­thing. \Ve ha,·e all the oafeguards agail,st exploitation of which the hon. member for LPichhardt spoke.

Mr. FOLEY : In what clause? The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND

INDUSTRY: In the clause dealing with the executive. I admit that there is power in the Governor in Council to ove·rride the n:ecutive; but one recognises that it is an oyerriding power which no Government would nse unlesJ there was good reuson for doing so.

::vir. vV. FORGAN SofiTII: There has always been that power.

The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND I:>JDUSTRY: I hold the view that tho Go­vernor in Council muet have the power in ~ase circumstances arise \vhich at this stage "·e cannot contemplate. '!'here is no inten­tion to thwart the executive or limit its authority. I feel certain that the composition of the executive will be exactlv the same as it has been in the past, e':cept that the members will graduate from the group com­mittee--c, which will control the matter. Now we have three emnloyers and three employees on the commi tte~. ·The only difference in

Apprenticqs and lvlinors Bill. [12 DECEMBER.] Apprentices and ll!li11ors Bill. 224-I

future will be that there will not be one direct representative each of the TI·ados and Labour Council and the Employers' Federation, although, from the point of vi_ew of interests, the proportion of representatiOn wlll be the same as in the past. The definitions have been put in the Bill to give the exe~utive puwer to use every avenue. possible, and thero is ample safeguard agamst the explOI­tation which some hon. members opposrtc seem to fear.

:!\fr. W. FoRGAN SMITH: Will you deal with the question of junior journeymen under the existing la 1:v?

The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR A::'\D INDUSTRY: The principle of junior jour­neyman ie one that has been recognised for . quite a long time, although the practice of making use of it has gone into disrepute or

disuse. After weighing all the fl2.30 p.m.] evidence. I am inclined to think

that it is better that, after a boy has completed his five years' apprenticeship, he should work a further period of tweh·e months under the control of the executive in order to got the broader knowledge of a full-fledged tradesman before he takes on the whole of the rnponsibilitios of a journeyman.

Mr. DuNLOP: That means five and a-half ·or six and a-half years' apprenticeship.

The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND IKDUSTRY: It need not be that at >tll, because the executive has power to shorten or lc!Jgthon the period of apprenticeship. For example, nobody would fix the same period of apprenticeship for a wicker-worker as for an electrical worker. I think definitely that there 'hould be some period bclwcen the time when a boy gets his 60 per cent. of a journeyman's wages-as he does in his last year of apprenticeship-and the time he gets the full 100 per cent. There should be, as it wer,~. a filtering through of the added responsibility, which will be beneficiaL

Mr. FoLEY: You arc giving everybody an u open go."

The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR A:\'D INDUSTRY: Ko. We feel that this period of twelve months will be beneficial both to the boy and to the industry. At the end of that period the junior journeyman may apply to the executive, which can decide that he has served his complete time, and wipe ont the balance of six months. If the employer wants to pa:v hin1 the full \vage, n1oreover, there is nothing to stop him.

Mr. \V. FoRGAN S>IITH: But there Js some­thing to stop the boy demanding the full wage.

The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR A::-\D IKDUSTRY: I admit that; but I think it will work out beneficially. Anyhow. it will be interesting to watch the experiment in the next year or so. because I look at the quEstion from the viewpoint of getting the best results-the best tradesmen. and the greatest number of them. I can ,,ssurc horr. members that we will administer this clause with due reganl to the interests of the boy.

Mr. DUNLOP (Rockhampton) : I said by interjection that it was quite po,sible that the boy might have to serve five and a-half or six and a-half vears instead of five vears; but the Minister" replied that the executive might declare that the apprentice was fullv qualified even before the five years were np".

The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND INDUSTRY : No. What I said was that at the end of

1929-6 X

twelve months the junior journeyman miil'ht apply to the executive. which might vcarve the balance of six months.

Mr. Dl:NLOP: 'l'he Rockhampton City Council employs lads as line cleaners. Under this Bill they might go in at sixteen yc.us of age, and, when they reach nineteen years oi age they might be put off, and other boys brought in at sixteen years of age. ls thoro anything in the Bill that will stop a city council like that from exploiting boy labour, and then throwing the boys on the labour market'! There should be soma protection.

Clause 3 agreed to. Clause 4-" Application of Act "-agreed

to . Clause 5-" Employment of minors"-

l\lr. \V. FORGAN SMITH (llfackay): l desire some information concerning the second pc:ragraph of this clause which reads-

" Provided that the Minister, on the recommendation of the executive, or on appeal by the person concerned, may exempt any person, to whom this Act would otherwise apply, from all or any of the provisions of this Act."

That is a rather dangero11s power, and the circumstanre'· that would justify its being operative would be very extraordinary cir­cumstances. One can visualise the position of an employer applying for exemption from the operations of the Bill to enable him to carry on his industry in a different manner altogether from others engaged in the same business. The Minister may say that in such circumstances he would not ..tgree to grant wch exemption. He may point out that the whole matter is within his discretionary power; but he will find as time goes on that all kinds of di!Icrences are brought before a Minister, and that quite a number of applications are made which take up the time of the J',linistcr, who would be better employed in administering some of the important provisions of the law. Under this Bill a parent may ask the Minister to exempt them from follm1 ing the ordinary system of indentures. The parent may say that he does not intend to remain in Queensland anv lor1ger than a couple of years, after which he intends to reside in Victoria, and because of that fact he does not wish to be faced with the position of applying for a breach of the indenturec. All kinds of requests wore made to me, some of them good, right, and proper, but others that would hu.ve npset the whole of the regulation and control of conditions under the law. 'l'his clause pro­vides very '\Yide po-vrerf:J, which arc unneces­sary. Ample pmver is provided in another clans~ giving the QoYernor in Conncil every opportunity to protect the public interests in the administration of forms of law where semi-administratiYe bodies are est~blished undm· the law of the State. The words " or on appeal by the person concerned" indicate that the application need not go first to the executive. An appeal may come direct to the Minister, and may come through a mem­ber of Parliament. It is not necessary to operate this clan'e on tho recommendation of the executive. The Minister has supreme authority to exempt any employer or any boy from the operations of any part or from the whole of the ~"'-et. I cannot see that any good purpose will be served by the clause. It would be less dangerous administratively and less irksome if the Minister omitted the

Mr. Smith.]

2242 App,-enfi,~es and 1"finors Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Apprentices and Minors Bill.

words, " or on appeal by tho persons con~ cernod." The· matter would then be in tho ba.nds of the Apprenticeship Executive and wuu!d be based on the facts stated. If' there was a good case for exemption, it would have to be stated to the Apprenticeship EJcecutive, and it would then be a question of establish­ing the facts; and the Minister would be saved all the trouble of making investigation and inquiry. I advise the Minister to omit those words from the paragraph.

The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR A::-.JD INDUSTRY (Hon. H. E. Sizor, Sandgate): I quite appreciate the point raised by the Leader of the Opposition; but this powel' is nerBssary in order that the authority con­cerned may be in a position to concentrat.J on every aspect of the problem. In view of the constitution of the new executive, \Yhich will be clothed with wider responsibilities in the control of junior ~abour in the State, the Government consider it advisable to provide the power set forth in this clause in order th·at any problem can be adequatel;v dealt with. 1Yhat wao really i11tended was that the words " from the executive " shonlcl appear after the word " appeal " on line 4C.. I can see the point of the Leader of the Opposil ion-that in the literal reading of the clause, as it now stands, a person concerned may appeal direct to the J'dinistPr and ignore the executive.

Ml'. \V. FO!lGAN SMITH: You could emit the words "Ol' on appeal by the person con­cerned.''

'I'h' SECRETARY FOR LABO"CR ,\ND I"'DUSTRY: There ic no dcsim to ignore the executive. It is desired that the l\Iinister, or, in other \Vords, tho GoYern­mem, shot.dd be th" ultimah appeal. In order to meet the situation pointed out b-.­the hon. member, I beg to move the foll0\1:­ing amendment:-

" On line 46, page 3, aftc'r the word­' appeal'

insert the words-' from the executive.' "

Amendment (Mr. Sizer) agreed to.

::Vh·. DASH (Mundingb·m·a): No person, either 1nalc or fen1alc, under the age of twenty-one y0ars can be empioyed in any industry without first having been rrgistcred with the itpprenticeship executiYc.

The SEcRETARY FOR LABOVR AND l"'DUSTRY : That applies only to the industries men­tioned in the schedule.

Mr. DASH: But it must be borne in mind that the Governor in Council has power to extend thi; Bill to any trade or calling; and " calling " includes unskillerl trades. This clause states that every per­son under th0 age of twentv-one years who is ciPsirous of obtaining work under this Bill must fir·.t rcg·ister with the Apprentice­ship Executive, or such a person as the State labour agent nearest to the locality in which he re~ides.

The SECRET.\RY FOR LABOUR AND INDUSTRY : No.

:.~err. DASH: The clause reads-" After the commencement of this Act,

no minor shall be employed or engaged in any of the callings, trades, or indus­tries to which this Act applies, ex:ccpt subject to tho conditions prescribed bJ the executive."

The SECRENRY roR L·\BOUR A;<D INDUSrRY: "To which this Act applies."

[Jfr. 8miih.

:\fr. DASH : But we know that, by Order· in Council, the Government can do son1etl1ing· which is not provided for in this Bill. Tho power to do certain things is rescn-cd to the Government. The specchC'• of the hon. gentleman and of other members of the Gov.?rnment, indicate that this Act can be given a very wide applicatio:1 by Order in Council. Any minor desirous of employ­ment under the Act must register •yith the cxecutiY c or some duly authorised agent; and any employer desirous of cmplo:ying apprentices or· minors under this Bill must register similarly. It is very clear in tho next clause, ''lhich I an1 not permitteJ to discuss at the present time, what are the intentions of the Gover11ment. The powers confL,rrC'd on the executi vo arc very w·ide indeed in so far as the employment of minors is concerned. It is a power which I regard as being of a Yery far-reaching character. It will mean that thL> w :1ges of minors will be fixed by the exccutiYe, and that no employer· will bo able to engage a lTiiilor except on the conclitions pr,:seribed by the oxccutiYe. 'l'he Industrial Court \\'ill not be permitted to fix: tho wages or conditions of any person under twenty-one years of age. The Bill states that a "II1inor" is-

" ...cl. person under tvventy-one years of age who is err;.ployed or (HJgaged in any trad<' or industry to which this Act appiies."

Is it the intention that this Bill shall apply to other industries? If not, why should every minor and every employer who is prepared to employ that minor have to l'egi;,ter? The clause is most unfair, both to trw employer and to Lhe employee. It does not give that free selection to a mmor to which the Mi11ister referred, because the Bt.ll states specifically that the employer shall not employ any minor after the passing of this Bill in any of the callings mentioned and those that ma:y be >Ubsequently mentioned by Ordu in Council, except subject to the con­ditions prP;cribed by the executive.

The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND INDUSTRY (Hon. H. E. Sizer, Sandgate) : The hon. member has taken an entirely wrono- view of the position. \Ve are making a departure by controlling minors in indus­try· and if the hon. member fears the clan'gcr or' ex11loitation in that regard, surely he must reahse that we can only keep con­trol of the position by registration in the manner proscribed ! \V e must naturally pro­ceed warily on the initiation of this system; <-:nd it is desired to exercise control so that the dangers referred to by the hon. ·.~ember for Mundingburra will not be pcrmt.Hed to occur.

There is no immediate intention t0 E;O beyond the ambit of the schedule; but later on if the position is found to be ad.-an­tr,geous, the system will be extended to call­ings other than t~ose :nent10ned ~n tho schedule. It Is the mtcnt10n of the Govern­ment that an authoritative body shall b" concentrated on labour conditions in the State as they apply to minors and juniors, as those conditions are entire]_, dt.ffcrent from the conditions applying to adults.

The employer will be giv n a free choice in the selection of a minor, the only provi­sion being that registration muct be effected, 1vhich, as I previously expb.incd. is to pro­tect the ctnployccs against exploitation. Tho

Apprentices and Minors Bill. [12 DECEMBER.] Apprentices and Minors Bill. 2243

Bill also provides that induetria] inspectors shall have power to examine into the con­ditions in industry.

Mr. DASH (Jlundingburra): That does not clear up the point. Under this Bill no pet'Pon undci~ twenty--one years can bo employed as a labourer in an industry covered by this Act unless he is registered.

Clau~c 5, as amended, agreed to. Clause 6-" Regist1·ation and en~ployment

of apprentices"-

:Ylr. DASH (Mundingburra): Under this clause, which pre•·cribes that a person desirolls of becoming an apprentice 6hall notify the secretary of the executive, will the employer be allmYcd to select the llpprentice fron1 the list of uan1cs of persDns registered?

The SECRETAHY FOR LABOUR AND INDUSTRY : Ile will ha vc a perfect];, free choice.

:\1r. DASH : That will mean that the big, strong boys, capable of doing a hard day's work, will be selected in preference to those whose physical appearance does not denote that. Some other provision is neceo,sary. If thio:; nwLsure is going to 1nakc provision for all bo,ys to register, the employers should be compelled to take on some of the light­weights us well as the heav;. v. eights. All lad; rrrc not of the same stamina, and have not the nnw ability. When the piecework system \V:ls introduc.?d in certain industries. tlcc old and infirm nwn were passed out, and that is likely to happen to some boys under this apprenticeship scheme. Some provision ,hould be m~de ,o th~t these lightweight lads will havo an opportunity of securing employ­ment.

Cla~s'"" 6 agr0~d to. f'1lau",q 7-" Public r ;:anl.inations "-

:\lr. W. FORG.-I.J\: SMITH (Jlarkay): This cl use deals v; ith the questiou of proscribed public exmninations-a matter vvhich has given rise to a goOd ·deal of controv-ersy in the past. One of the methods adopted by those who desire a close corporation in any particular t'rade or profession is to prcseribJ :n1 entrance examination that will exclude a~ many as possible. As a mc·mber of the late Government, it was brought under my notice that there was a tende11cy on the part of persons in certain professions which were registered under the statute law. and which got. an advantage under that statute law, to close themselves within a ring fence. That is one of the defects of having examinations. Of course, we know that in certain trades or callings it is desirable that the appren­t-ices slnuld have a knowledge of cm·tai'l sub­jects, such as geology, as such a kno:;ledgo enables them to carry out their work much rr1ore cflicif::ntlv. The standard. of exam1na~ tion is ono that the Minister will always have under his notice; and it will be ncces~ sarv to soo that the prescribed examination is not unduly harsh .. \V hen tlL matter ,., as first taken over b,, the Department of Public Works from tho Department of Public Instruction, there was a verv real cause for complaint owing to the stunciard of examina­tion being set too high. In one year only 42 per cent. of the candidates pa,socl the qualifying examination enabling a boy to be rogi ·tcrcd a, an apprentice. I looked into the question later on. and pre-cribc,d a stan­dard equal to the fourth-class stanclard­\Vhich I .understand is prosrribed in this Bill -with the rio:ht to pro cribc a higb~r stan­dard if good cause could be shown; and sinco

then a much better method has boon operat­ing in connection with tho training of boys. 1 f an apprentice is found t'o be ddicient in certain educational subjects, he is adviccd by the chairman of the Apprentices.hip Commit­tee to attend evening classes at tho tcrhnica! college in order to repair the deficiency. 1t i~-. much better to give a bo> tho opportunjtv of improving hin1.,elf at night classes thaf1 to risk excluding anyone who n1ight b. eomo n good artisan.

Mr. POLLOCK (Grcgor!l): There is exactly the same d,;nger in clause 7 that I outlined in connection with the Professional Engi­neers Bill. I am not concerned ono way or the other with tho Bill generally hut only with this clause. The last paragraph at subclause (2) reads-

,, ProYided that evert candidate for apprenticeship to that trade shall pro­duce a certificate from a head teacher that lw has been <:>dncated up to the st,ndard prescribed for the third half­.~ ,~ai~ of tho fourth class in State schools."

haYe in my possession a .letter written frorn th_(; apprc•uticeship office over the signa­ture of .i'vlr. NoycJ pointing out with reference to a bo;' in Winton that he will have to pass the State scholarship examination, or an cxamina tion of a standard not lower than that, before he will be entitled to become an apprentice.

The SECRETAR\ FOR LABOUH AND INDUSTRY: \\'hen was that letter written?

:\1r. POLLOCK: The letter was written a few days ago-I am sorry I have not got it with me-in connection with the electrical tr~de. I Eeo a real danger in regard to i!us matt~r I know there is a general demand from people for a fYStem of appren­ticeship vv hi eh will give sa'tisfaction to all parties. I do not believe any Government could supply that demand, because the mai,r trouble is tJ10 plenitude of workers and the ocarcity of job-. Every apprentic~ put on n1eans throwing somebody else out of work. \Yhere we have limited industries such as we have in Queenslalld, we continually meet with that difficulty. We are a cow;try of pnmar:y productwn, and not of secondary ntdu"tncs; and we sheJl have the difficulty l"herever \\ e put on an apprentice to do a n1an's work that_ ''.'~ile he is learning his tmde. he vv-ill inevJtably throw some man o_ut of work, 'o that no system of appren­ticeship. can be ~egarded as satisfactory from that pomt of vrew.

I do not want to see the po,ition arise which has arisen in tho .electrical trades­I _do not c;are _whether· i_t is the group com­m,tte( whrch rs responsrble for it or not­where' we reach the stage that wo have to get the cream of the intellect of this State n1erely to run a y·.;iro SOITI8\Vhcre. It is absurd to imagine that only the most highlv qnalifiecl boys must eirt"r the electrical trades That is quite wron,;, and I do not stand for i~. I admit that it is an advantage in ccrte .. m trades for a bov to. have a know­ledge of trade mathema"tics-gcomctry, and :'30 on-which gives him an advantarre over his fellows in certain respects. 'Who~ I left sc.hool I WOl'k cl with a band of six brothers who were the best mecha .. nics I have ever seen, and root ono of them could rc~d or '•-rite. A bent for mechanics is more a gift than wmcthing which can be acquired. A ho:: \vho is a natnrai n1echanic usually does well enough in his trade without any educa­tion· at all. The Bill makes it compulsory

Mr_ Pollock.]

2244 Apprenl'ices and lliinors Bill. [)>.SSEMBLY.] Apprcn:ic,'s and i~inors Bil'.

that a boy shall have passed a certain State school examination; but I contrnd that that is unneccs· .1ry. The Bill provides that he must have bc0n "educated up to the r.tan, dard prescribed for the third ha1f-year of the fourth dass in State schools." \Vhere is thee nccdssity for that?

~1lr. MA X WELL: I said that when your Government introduced the first Apprentice· ship Bill.

:\fr. POLLOCK: Backward boys who might not be ablo to pass an examinati:m at school might, neYertheless, make except:onally gf?od mechanics; and I see a danger 111 debarrmg bov3 with such a gift for learning trades ir(:n entering them because of their inability to learn the things necessary to qualify them to regi~ter as apprentices.

Ono of the grcateot dangers in apprentice­c,hip is the unscrupulous employer who desireJ chc,cp labour; another is the unscrupulous -raft union which desires to erect a ring

fc'1co around its trade or pro· (2 p.m.] f, ssion; and in regard to educa-

tion.ll tc~Ls there is evidence that some men who have >tttainod the qualifications of tradesmen have endeavoured to prevent ether> from entering their trades by setting an examination etandard which is far too high for the a vera,ge boy, I realise, of course, that administration may overcome that.

The letter to which I referred earlier in my rernarks was sc:;lt to \ 1 ern on Kcrr, at Winton, not more than a fortnight ago. It required him to sit in \Vinton in order to }~ass an examination at least as high as t.he State ~,cholar;:;hip oxan1ination. I-Io 1na:,~ not be able to do it; the facilities to enable boys to pass those examinationb are not thoro in m,'ny cases, E <poCially in outlying portions of the State.

I trust that the Act will be administered in the proper spirit, giving advantage neither to the unscrupulous employer nor the un­scmpulous craft union which desires to make its trade a close corporation. \Ve have an illustration of that in the dentists and the optometrists. I think that we shall have it nnder the Professional Engineers Act, and I ouppose we shall have· it under the Architects Act. It is difficult to frame an Act of Parliament that is free from these dangers; hut, so frtr as it is possible, I ask the Minister to be careful to see that it is don9. I urge the necessity for watching both intere,ts in industry very closely to see that no advantage is taken of the opportunities to prm·ent bo:;s who haYo not passed the educationa i standard from learning their trades.

The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND INDUSTRY (Hon. H. E. Sizer, Sandgate) : I ha vo made this provision as broad as possible. The main point with which I am concerned is the administration of the mea sure in the interests of the boys.

Mr. POLLOm,.: I hope you v:ill be big enough to do that.

The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR A~D I:'-IDUSTRY: The standard laid down-that proscribed for the third half-year of the fourth daas in State schools-is a standard which a boy of twelve years of age would ordinarily roach. The position is different in different trades, and there is no doubt that a higher dc"ree of scholarship is reauired in the electrical trade, for example, than in othero, It is a very scientific trade, and it

[J11·. Pollock.

i" advancing, and in it the difficulty for the bov would arise afterwards if he had not first attained a requisite educational standard. The boy must secure a certificate from the f>lcctrical board b~fore he can work as a j ourncyman.' I assure hon. n1embers opposite that from my experience I appreciate the point that has boon raised, and I intend to look very closely into the matter with a view to overcoming that difficulty.

Mr. PoLLOCK: You do not think it neccs­' •.ry that an electrician should be a master of arts?

'rho SECRETARY FOR L.\BOUR ~\ND I:'-!DUSTRY: I think that in many t "''" the standard is set too high. There is a tendency to base the ox.tminations on a diploma. cout·sc. The n1att'er will receive rny verY c-areful consideration.

Clause 7 agreed to. Clau'e 8-" Reci1,rocal stat"s of certifi·

cat, s "-agreed to.

Clause 9-" AzJprf:ltic~ .«.hip Executive"­

The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND INDl~STRY (HoD. H. E. Sizer, Sandgllte) : I beg to move tLe following amendment:­

" On lines 15 and 16, nage 6, after tho WO I'd-

'time' omit the words-

' the Queensland Employers' Federa­tion or the Tradci and Labour c·ouncil or ' ~'

This is a conseql[ential amendment which ~.v. s oYcrlooked.

J\Ir. \Y. FORGA::\ S.MITH (-"-liackny): This is a matter that I intended to raise­not so n1uch for the purpose .of securin~ a_n amendment, because I reahse that' It IS inevitable in connection with this Bill. The clause is taken frvm the existing law. I intended to raise the question of the chang' in the personnel of the executive to !live hon. members some idea of the pnnctple involved in the existing law which the ~1inis­tu- now proposes to amend. Under this Bill the executive "ill be composed of th,·ec reprosentatiYes of the employers, three r-.pre­scntatives of the c1nployees, a Governn1ent chairman, and a GoYernmont norniuoC'. The number on the ::roup is not being altered in any way, but the Employers' Federation and i lw Trades and Labour Council are each to lose their member. It may be argued that tlw only people interested in apprentices are the employees and employers who ~re engagt d in the particular trade or calhng affected. This matter wa,, discussed by me with various bodies when the first Bill was intrnducod, and my reason for including a representative of the Employers' Federation and a rcproscntatiye of the Trades and Labour Council was a recognition of the wider interests ir industry, apart altogether from those imrnediatdy engaged in it. There is ahvays the Yicw of thoso engagc.i in .Ul1 industry desiring to make that industr,y a', profitable as possible to themselves from eYel') point of Yiew. Combinations may eXIst in a trade or calling that may not be alto­gether in the public interests, although thoy may be in the interests of those affected by them. The Trades and Labour Council is a bod,- with which is affiliat··d a numbN of unions, many of them not craft unions at all, hut industrial unions comprising members whose ordinary avocations do not come within the scope of this Bill. But they are

Apprentices and ivlinors Bill, [12 DECEMBER.] Apprentices and J.l!Jinors Bill. 2245

interested in the Bill ina,much as, first of all, they are citizens of Queensland, and, in the second place, a great number of them have boys or girls whom they may desire to be taught trades. There is that wider interest involved which gives them represen­tation. The same remark applies to the Employers' Federation, which is, comprised of representatives of industries that may not cater for skilled trades altogether, although employers in J<illc·d trade•, may be members of the federation. We accordingly thought it advisable to give this wider recognition to industry on the ground that existing indus­tries generally should be represented in the scheme in all its phases. Personally, I think it is a mistake to do a Y•/."J.Y with this re pro~ sentative of the Employer"' Federation and the representative of the Trades and Labour Council. So far as I am aware, it has worked very well in the past, and has a lot to commend it. The whole State is inter­este·d in apprentice". The whole of industry is interested in apprentices, for all industri€s are interdependent. No case could be cited in which the people engaged in a particular trade are the only people interested in tho conditions controlling that trade. Public interests are affected in eyerything done in connection with this matter. Therefore, we decided to give the representation under the old Act that \VC did, recognising, as we did, that there wa·. a wide public interest in all industry.

Some reason should be given by the Minis­ter for the change in policy. Apart from +he Govornrnent representatiYes on the Execu­tive Committee, there will be onlv men engagc,d in the t'mde. Hon. members'in this Chamber could cite instances whore those engaged in a trade could enter into an agree­ment which might be beneficial to them but '>"hich would not pass muster in a Cha;,bor of this kind. or rc"eive the sanction of a tribunal such as th2 Board of Trade and Arbitration. I know quite a number of such instances, so do the ~1inister and other hon. rnr1nbers. It is a n1istake not to rccognic:.o on the committee general industr'<' apart from craft industry. •

The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND IJ'\DUSTRY (Hon. H. E. Sizer. Sandqate): There is something in the contention ~f the Leader of the Opnosition. I have given tho matter a lot of thought; but' hon. members will notice that the Government view in both the Industrial Conciliation and Arbitra­tion Bill a!'d this Bill _is. more or less, the control of mdustry by mdustry.

C\lr. w. FoRGAX s~nTH; That is the syndi­calist outlook.

The SECRET.\RY FOR LABOUR A?\D INDL:STRY: I have p ,id due rogar·d to the a_rgur:"ent advanced, but I feel that the posi­t~on IS met by the Government representa­tives. Take, for mstancc. l\1r. RiddelL He has a VCl'Y w~de viov, of things. Mr. Riddell, or someone 111 h1s place, can represent the public interests quite satisfactorilv. l\Ir. Hall, the chairman, has had a great deal of experience of the whole scheme. All who have been associated with him aro of the opinion that he takes a ven· broad outlook of industry gcnrrallv. For that rea,,on I am inclined to think that the change will be verv beneficial. \V c will recruit our execntiv'C from the groups. \Vo are making another change there. In the past it "·as permissible for a person to be a member of a ,.roup committee and also a member of the ;xecu-

tive. Now we stipulate that a person recruited from a group committee to the higher tribunal, the executive, must vacate his position on the group committee, other­wise it would be a case of Ccsar appealing to Crcsar. I am of the opinion th"t the alteration will work very beneficially.

~lr. IV. FoRGAN S1!ITH: It is not very vital.

The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR A~D INDUSTRY: That is so. There is nothing wrong with the present system; but there is good argument for the change, particularly in view of the chairman we have.

2\Ir. DASH (illundingburra) : Will the Minister kindly explain the position with regard to the payment of members of the executive?

The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND INDUSTRY (Hon. I-I. E. Sizer, Sandgate): They will be paid under the came arrange­mE-nt as at present-namely, for meetings they attend.

Yrr. D.\SH: What about time off to the Government representative?

The SECHETARY FOR LABOUR AND The only qualification we impose on rcpro­Fentatiw9 is that they shall be skilled in the trade or calling concerned, and probably in many c?ses the representatives will be paid officwls of the organisation associated with the trade or calling.

Amendment (Mr. Sizer) agreed to.

Clause 9, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 10, 11, and 12 agreed to.

Clause 13-" Nwnbu of ap[YI'enticcs to be unployed "-

Mr. W. FORG~\:'-i S::\I!ITH (Jiackay): H i, rather a coincid,mce that the chief contro­versial clause in the Bill which has been introduced bv the Minister should be num­bered thirtec'n.

The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND INDUSTRY : It is always rny lucky number.

Mr. W. FORGA::\l SMITH: That again may be a quection of personal opinion. What the Minister may regard as being lucky to him may be looked upon by others as a national misfortune. (Laughter.) That is b_., the way. I am stronglv oppo~ed to this clatP,e, for the reasons stated by me last night. The view I have always taken of apprentices and the regulation of the t·rain­ing of apprentices is that nothing should interfere \Yith the co-operation of those whose duty it is to carry out the provisions of exist­ing legislation. The whole basis of the exist­ing law-and it is not altered to any groat lxtent in this Bill-is that the boys' interest is the paramount interest, the objective being to give Queensland boys the opportumty to h at'n their trades propErly. Everyone knows i bat the tradecmen being turned out under the present apprenticeship arrangements\', ill he able to secure employment in competition with mon trained in any other part of the 'World. One of the beneficial a,;pect.; of the existing group committees is the collaboration of emplo,·ers 'rith employees in the training of apprentices; and it is most jnteresting to attend the function" at which tho certiftcatrs of proftciency prescribed under th8 existini[ ]Pgislation arc distributed, because one has there the spectacle of the employer and the , <>mployce vying with one another in the

1111-. Smith.]

2246 Apprentices and Minors Bill. [ASSEMB_LY.] Apprentices and 1liinors Bill.

interest displayed in the training of appren­tices. 'Wonderful enthusiasm is shown by all concerned ; but my fca·r in regard to the principle contained in this clause is that where those people are ranged on different r-conomic sides the boy may become a pawn in the play of economic forces, a division of interest immediately arising in regard to vvagcs and conditions of employment. The Apprenticeship Execu­tive will br clothed with all the power and authority of an industrial concilation board, but my view is that it would be doing a man-sized job and discharging an impor­hnt civic duty if it confined its attention to safegua·rding the welfare of the appren­tices in regard to their training. VVhcre you hring in the whole question of the propor­tion11te number of a:>prenticos to journeymen, the question of wag·es, and so forth, you immediately divide these committees in two, and the play of economic force' immediately operat_'. It cannot bo urged that the exist­ing arrang8lnent has been unsatisfactory, beeau ,e it has been the practice of the Board of Trad • and Arbitration to note verv care­fully any recommendations made by the chairman or 6ecretary of the Apprenticeship Executive•. They have appeared before th·• Board of Tnde in connection with matters affecting apprentices, both »ith regard t·" ratios, \Vith regard t0 imrn·oyers' licenses. and val'ious oth,,r tLings that affect their interests; but the red work of fixintr ·wagr:s 1,nd proport.ion·c hrrs been left very properly to the decisiOn of the Board of Trade. That po·wer is being taken awav from the board and given to this <'xe~uti~e; and it intro­duces a nei;y- function Pntircly-a function which to some extent will destrov the har­rnony v,-hic~J now cxi::;ts, and 1nav~ have th•) result of diru: ing a largo part of the atten­tion of. this Pxeeutlvc fron1 its prime dut;r to a consideration of economic factors which the Industria I Court has been called into being to dcrrl with. I cannot see wh·1t objec­tion there is to the same t-ribunal that fixed the rate for the journeyman fixing the rate for the apprentice. Under the new induo­trial law tlwre probablv will be a board sav for the enginee!-ing" an·d allied trades. 'Th8..f hoard will have th• rip:ht to fix the rate'. ma·rg-ins for skill, ovm·time conditions and various other thjngs. There is no rea;on at all hy the same tribunal should not fix the wages of apprentic.cs and journeymen, leav­mg nurelv educstn·o functions-which are most important-to the Apprenticeship Execu­tive. I regard this clause as a dangerous departu·re from the <oxisting svstem, and one which will be of no adYantage at all to the industries concerned, but one which mav have n rcnerrus>jion in· various directions, and may detrimentally affect the interests of all partie·_, concerned.

Mr. DUNLOP (Ilnckhamplun): I wish to h~ consistent with my remarks on the second reading and enter my protest against this clause. A very warm discussion took place in this Chamber on the Industrial Concilia· tion and Arbitration Bill in regard to thn appointment of a board for journevmen. l maintain that it is useless to appoint another board. ''hose duties ha ye been verv ably explained by the Leader of the Opposition. No one is more persistent or more determined than the Minister himself regarding the powers of these conciliation boards, whilst J he Opposition just as determinedly do not want to depart from the nresent Board of Trrtde and Arbitration. ·seeing that the

[Mr. Smith.

present members of the Apprenticeship Com­mittee who are able men and apparently have been giving satisfaction to both sides, 1vhy a re they not satisfactory enough to look after i he wages of apprentices? As the Minister knows, representatives of organisations have fought before the Boctrd of Trade and Arbitration with regard to wages just as hard. if not harder. in the intereo.ts of the juniors as in the interests of the adult>. \Vo know that onco a start is made to rAduce 1 he r>tte of pay to the lower-paid man it ha an effect on what is paid to the ad>dt \vorker. I object to a new committee being formed to deal with thi5 matter. The mcm· bcrs of the committee will also want to be ]'aieL

The SECRETARY FOR L<.BOUR AND INDT:STRY: They are being paid now.

Dlr. DUNLOP : They will, perhaps, get an increased salary as the outcome of this 1ncasure. The:v have got quite enough to do at present to assist the Industrial Court. As the Mini'·ter knows, o statistician is to be appointed with the. object of going into these matters; and such statistician must get information with re;;arcl to apprentic. s tPld juniors for the inforn1at.ion of the court; and whv is not that sufficient? Lot the execu­tive look after the ·york it is doing at the present timr', as that will be to the intcreo,ts n' the State as a whole. If we create another Industrial Court in this D1Pasure, somebod_,-1-: ill ron1c along rrnd sugJie-,t the creation of one or h,-o rnol'e in other industries.

J\ir_ HYKES ('f',,wnHillc): I can see that H y, ry serious disability is going to be C'au~,~d under this elauen to some of the people who will be covered b1· awards in future. The Apprenticeship Exccutiyo has the p 0wer to frx the proportionate number of apprentices to he emploc·ed nndc1· an award and also the rate, of "pay for such apprentices. The powers of the court arc delegated to the c·xecutive. I take it, the Apprenticeship Executive will be a body sitting in Brisbane. At the present time the members of the court pay visits to Town.,ville or Rockhamp­ton and take evidence before making awards covering the employee·, in those place;. The clause "" s that the executive shall con:ult with the group committees in the various r,entres, and that will n1ean a great deal of ddav. The executive will communicate with th·~ ·group con1rr1ittce in Tov\~nsvillc, and, after getting a report from it. will go into 1 ',c matter of fixing the proportion of appren­tices in any particular caliing. There are something like 350 awards and agreements operating in the Stnt·"'; and w·e ran s8e the impossibility under those conditions of the Apprenticeship ExecutiYe being able to cop2 with all the work placed upon it. It seems tc me that delav and confusion will rcrise in putting this ciause into operation.

I am opposed to delegating to the Appren­ticeship ExecutiYe the powers of a court. The Board of Trade and Jubitration has always giYcn satisfaetion in connection with apportjoning the nnn1ber of apprentices to hJ employed in a calling. as it has had the advantage of having all the facts placed before it by the contending parties. Con­siderable attention is always paid to this aspect of an award. The employers usually make representations to incrE'ase the number of apprentices in an industry; and the unions endeavour to get a restriction with regard to the number of apprentices employed, to

Apprentices and .Zviinors Bill. [12 DECEMBER.] Apprentices and Minors Bill. 224 7

-enable those who have served their appren­iicBship a reasonable chance of getting a living nnder the award in quc,;:;tion. rrhc unions have also to keep in mind the fact that the> do not want the employers to dis­miss journeymen in order to employ appren­tices at a cheaper ratP. There is going to be a disabilitv impm,ed in the Northern dis­trict with which I am principally concerned. ao there will be a great delay on the part of group committees getting into touch with the Apprenticeship Executive, owing to the large number of awards and a g-r2oments which will have to be handled bv the execu-tive. " .

[2.30 p.m.]

The SECRET IJ~Y FOR LABOL:R AND INDUSTRY 1Hon. H. E. Sizcor, S·mdg,,te): The Leader of the Oppmition spoke about the do<rub]onr '3'3 of binding the err1ploycr.s t~ncl err:ployc•f';) togr~thcr iH thes:~ 1natters. That is exactly the spirit of this Bill and Df other GoYcrnwcnt legishc'ion. \Ve do not wa'lt thi; co-operation confined to the Apprenticeship Executi;-e and p:roup com­Jnittces; we '.:ant to ctrry it a great dud further. As far as possible, wo are alrcad~,~ adn1inisterTng the lu w a1ong thvse 1ine~ u; and before this clans,, "\vns de 'idcd npon wo got eome cvidenco of that spirit. '\Vc got Pight rcpn :..cnt·1.tivcs of each side concornctl ---th~~ llllion and tho emplo} <I's-to 1noct in conference on this Yery subject; and they came l·o the unc1nirnous deci .. .-ion that this \voulcl bn a distinct imnrovoment-that is to sa v, that the whole con'tro! shoLild be in ono bo,dy.

:\Ir. Hn;Es: Whctt unions were repre­Bented?

The SEC:Rli:TARY FOR LABO"Clt AND 10\iDU'-\TE Y: I cm g·ct that information for th•' hon. memher. Tlnt conference unnnimously decided to approve of this rrin­cipl••. Hon. members lose sight of the fact that this body will be concentrating on the mbject of junior labom·. If you giYe it a part of the problem, you must give it the whole of the problerr ; and we must remem­ber th 't the Boord of Tr.tdo and Arbitra­tion in tho pact has largely fol!owed the advir0 or evi•Jencc of the chairman of the "4 pprenticeshin Committee. \Yiw should "·e not give the· executive full po~er? I feel it is going to be a distinct advantage. I lwli0ve that, if this bodv will concentrate Dn the problem, it will get so much in touch with many of its phases that difiiculties will be straightened out and removed.

Mr. DASH (Jfundinubu"ra): I foresee difficulties in the administration of this clause. The Apprenticeship Executive is to fix the wages of all en1ployeos under the age of twenty-one. Included in the schedule, for example, there are the cooks. Under this Bill all cookq or " offsidors " und;er the age Df twenty-one will have their wages fixcrl by the exccutivc. That will mean that we shall have two tribunals lixing wages for cooks-the Industrial Court for those over twenty-one, and the Apprenticeship Executive for those under twenty-one. EYerybody knows that manv women work as cooks in hotels, restaurants, private boarding-houses, a~d cafes before they are twenty-one. They will be classed as minors under this Bill and thci r wages will be fixed by the exe: cutive. I can assure the Minister that the

Hill is not well thought out. It has been mslwd togdlwr, and it will be difflcult to interpret it when it is placed on the statute­book.

Then we have the employees in the clothing trade, a 1<-::Tge number of \vhom arP- under hYeuty-one and a large number over twenty­ono. The Bili pmvides that mi:1ors under hvellty-onc Yf'1r:-> of age must rt'g-i:.;Ler ·with the Appronticc,hip Executive, which will be gi,~ou r,o·v·.rer to fix thei1~ \\':1gos. Efo"v can "o arri '. o at. an C(]uitablo basis when two tribunals will be set up-one to fi:< the wages for cmploycu over twenty-one years of age and the other to fix the wages of en1ployces

·ho have not ro ;ched that age?. \Ye shall have bYo tribunals fixing \V;tges for different .... ,~tions, including slaughtenncn, sn1all goods­nH~n, and lcatlH'l' \YOrk0rs. There arc 1nany i,:atber work0rs under the f.ge of t" cnty-one Years. The Minister "·ould be well adYised f-o drop this e1rru3c aHogether and pcrn1it lhe Indmtrial Cmut to fix wages in ell c,:ses. The Industrial Court is to hav·- the assistance nf actuaries and assc:::,sors, but tho san1o assistance is not n:tendccl to the 0xccutive under the Bill. I understand the executiYe will be a pr>rt-tin,c executive. Is it tho intention to en ll th0 executive together da.Y nfter day to clctermiuc the wages of minors in indusl ry '? Applic l.tions ,-dll be made from dny to rL~\- for rr.1nors io ~,-.'ork in i~1dnstry, an~l t.h, ''e, emplo,·,_,' will bo brought under the operation n[ the Hill; and tho pow,3r to fix thei1· wao-es will be taken from the Indu"­triRl C,-,urt. u and given to the new tribunal. This ''"ill lead to confusion. If the Industrial Court is competent to fi '< fhe "'ages of those nvor t\',-Rntv-onc vears of age, then it is ron1netent to f:x ·the vvagc;; ~)f Jninors and app~cnt.jces. :\ othing has occurred during my lon[\" expN>clJCC of the Industrial Court tn shO\Y that anything done by the court. has ·beau unfair lo crnployers or cmployevs in industry. iYhere persons of eighteen years of age are c~nploye(l as nayvies, in th0 rncatworks. or in the sugar fields and ougar mills. doiug the work of men, they receive the fnll Udult. \Yage No one will dispute thc·ir ri'.;ht to the adult wage; but 1 t cannot he shO\d1 that th ~ wage fixed hy the court for vourlg workers, apprentices, or juniors ha;, l;ceH a hardship on industry. I am tna king this sugge-;tion, not as a carp­ing critic er in a suspicions spirit, but with a view to preventing ('ndless trouble a.nd con­fusion I advise the :IIIinister to drop the dause.

The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND INDL'STRY tnon. H. E. Sizcr, Sandgate): There i' nothin¥ in the point raised by the hon. member for l'vlundingburra. The Apprenticeship K· ecutive has to a very great ~xtent advised the Industrial Court in the past, and has practically been doing this work It is now proposed that, instead of the court. carrying out this functicm, it shall he carried out by the executive.

2\1r. HY:>ES: That was only in connection with skilled trades.

The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND [NDUSTRY: There can be uo difliculty if th~e basis of working on a percentage basis year by year is adopted, providing that for the t1rst year the boy shall receive, say, 20 per cent. of a journeyman's wage, and during

Hon. H. E. 8izer.]

2248 Apprentices and Minors Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Apprentices and Minors Bill.

t.he second year 30 per cent. of the journey­man~s wage.

Mr. DASH: Where is that provided?

The SECRETARY FOR L.\BOUR AND [NDUSTRY: Thut will be done by adminis­trative action. A regulation will be issued under which the percentage basis will be fixed. It is the simplest matter in the world to do that.

Mr. DASH: Some callings are more arduous than others.

The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND I).[DUSTRY: In those callings the percen­tage will probably be altered; bnt, once the percentage is fixed, the assessing of the rates is a "imple and straightforward business.

The hon. member for Townsvi!le asked mo who were the representatives of the various unions on the conference held recently regarding the provisions of this Bill. They ·were l\1r. Davidson, representing the en­gineering group; 1\Ir. Rogcr'IJ representing the furniture group; Mr. Gleadhill, repre­senting the leather trades; Mr. Cahill, repre­senting the coopering trades; Mr. Reid, representing the confectionery trades; lVIr. Dixon, representing the butd1ering trades; and ::'\1r. Bryan, representing the electrical workers.

Mr. HY;\JES ('J'ou·nsville): This Bill brings within its scope all industries and callings which were not covered by the old Apprentice­ship Act. I am referring to the unskilled trades. The Minister has the right to add at any time any calling to the operations of this Bill. The definition of " trade" has been so altered as to make this Bill apply to all trades and industries The definition of " minor" has been altered in the srtme way. It is quite evident that it is the inten­tion of the Government to bring all unskilled trades under the Act. Those trades are repre­sented by the industries covered by the Australian \Vorkors' Union. That organisa­tion repro·cnts something like 60,000 workers in this Sbte. 'l'he largest number of in­dustrialists covered bv awards of the Board of Trade and Arbit.ration are represented by th: A_ustralian Workers' Union, yet that orgarusatwn was not repre,,ented at the con­ference which the Minister stated expressed agreement with this provision. Only skilled tra.dcs are subject to the operation of the present Apprenticeship Act. I am sure the Minister will admit that all unskilled indus­tries will be brought within the scope of this Bill.

The SECRETARY FOE L.\Bot·n .\)I o I:-~m:STRY : Possibly.

Mr. HY).[ES : Is it the intention of the l\linistet· to bring unskilled trades under this Bill?

The SECRETARY FOR L.\ROUR .iND INDUSTRY: Possibl.Y.

Mr. HYXES: Then the unions represent­ing unskilled trades should have been repre­sented at the conference called by the Minis­ter as well as the skilled trades.

The SECRETARY FOR L\BOUR A:-;[D INDUSTRY: I did not select them.

[Hon. H. E. Sizer.

Question-" That clause 13, as read, stand part of the Bill "-put; and the Committee divided:-

AYES, 30. ~Ir. Atherton Mr. Kenny

Bell , Kerr Blackley Dr. Kcrwin Boyd Mrs. Longman Brand Mr. Macgroarty Butler Maher Clayton Maxwell Costello :\Ioore Daniel Peterson Deacon Russell, H. M. Edwards Ru"cell, W. A. Fry Si7.er Grimstone T0dman Hill 'fozer

, Kelso ., Warren Tellers: Mr. H. M. Russcll and Mr. W. A. Russell.

NOES, 22 Ylr. Barber Mr. Hanlon

Bedford HynPs Bow Jones, A. Brassington Kirwan Bruce Mullan Bulcock PeaRe Collins Pollock Conroy Smith Dash Stopford Dunlop Wilson Foley Winstanley

Tellers: Mr. Brassington and Mr. Hynes. Resoh·ed in the affirmative. Clauses 14 to 19, both inclusive, Clause 20-" Payment for

nteetings "-

agreed to. attending

Mr. DASH (Mundingb1trra): This claU3e provides that-

" Each member of the executive or of a group committee or of an advisory committee (other than any member who is a State officer) shall be entitled to receive in respect of his attendance at anc; duly convened meeting of the execu­tive or committee at which he is present, the sum of ten shillings and six pence."

That is a Yory small amount to provide for, say, a mechanic receiving 18s. or £1 per day, who has to lose a day's work to attend a meeting of am· of the committees mentioned. The Minister should at least provide that the m em hers of the committee shall not lose financially by attendance in the performance of their duty.

At 2.50 p.m., Mr. ~1AXWELL (Toou-ong). one of the panel

of Temporary Chairmen, relieved the Chair­man in the chair.

Mr. DASH: vVe are not going to get very good sel· 1 ice on these committees if an employee is going to lose half a dM·'s pay for attending a mectin:.: of the committee. The Minister Rhould make it at least the amount tbe employee will lose in wages, v.nless he intends to compel the (mployer to make up the difference. If that w2re done, the ~.Iiuister would go a 1ong way towards securing harn1ony in this matter.

The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND I:\'DUSTRY (Hon. H. E. Sizer, Scwdgate): There may be something in the argument of the hon. member, and, in order to meet the views of the Opposition, I beg to move the following amendment :-

" On line 51, page 12. omit the words­' the sum of ten shillings and six­pence'

and insert the words-such sum as may be prc,cribed.' "

Amendment (Mr. Sizer) agreed to.

Apprentices and Mino'>'s Bill. [12 DECEMBER.] Brisbane Cricket Ground Bill. 2249

Clause 20, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 21 to 42, both inclusive, agreed to. Clause 43-" Payment thrreafter "­

Question-" That clause 43, as read, stand part of the Bill "-put; and the Committee divided:-

Mr.

Mr.

Ath~rton Bell Blackley Boyd Brand Butler Carter Clayton Costello Daniel Deacon Edwards Fry Grimstone Hill

Tellers: Mr.

Barber Bedford Bow Brassington Bruce Bulcock Coil ins Conroy Dash Dunlop Foley Hanlon

AYES, 30. Mr. Kelso

Kenny , Kerr

Dr. Kerwin Mrs. Longman Mr. Macgroarty

Maher l\iooro Peterson Rusoell, H. M. Russell, W. A. Siz'?r Tedman Tozer vVarren

Edwards and Mr. Kenny.

NoEs, 23. Mr. Hynes

Jones, A. Kirwan Mullan Pease Pollock Smith Stop ford WE>llin,;ton Wilson Winstanley

Tellers: Mr. Barber and Mr. Bruce.

Resolved in the affirmative.

ClausB 44-" Employment of minors"­

~r. W. FORGAN S::.viiTH (J1Iackay) : This clause, as I said on the second reading, should not appear in a Bill of this nature. It relates to the employment of minors in industry, and I am opposed to it.

[3 p.m.]

Question-" That clause 44, as read; stand part of the Bill "-put; and the Committee divided:-

AYES, 31, Mr. Atherton

Bell Blackley Boyd Brand Butler Carter Clayton CDstello Daniel Deacon Edwards Fry Grimstone Hill Kelso

Mr. Kenny , Kerr

Dr. Kerwin Mrs. Longman Mr. M a< groarty

l\Iahcr Moo re Pet.erson Ru"-e1I, H. M. Russell, W. A. Sizer Tedman Tozer Vhtlker, H. F. Warren

Tellers: l\Ir. Brand and Mr. Maher.

Mr. Barber Bedford Bow Brassington Bruce Buleock Collins Conroy Dash Dun lop Foley Hanlon

NoEs, 23. :Mr. I-Iynes

Jones, A. Kirwan Mull an Pease Pollock Smith Stop ford \Vellington Wi!son Winstanley

Tellers: Mr. Bedford and Mr. Bulcock. Resolved in the affirmative. Clauses 45 to 50, both inclusive, agreed to.

Clause 51-" Application of Act to Go< ern­rnent employees "-

:\.1r. DUNLOP (Rockharnpton) : The apprentices in the railway workshops enjoyed certain rights and privileges during the time that they served their apprenticeship, and sm,le of them are still serving that period of apprenticeship. It was my desi,re as an officer of the Railway Department to give those employees a "square go," and I intend now to he courageous enough to defend the rights of the railwav apprentices with a view to retain­ing for them the conce,sions and privileges that they have enjoyed in the past.

The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR A1-<D INDUSTRY : What about it?

l\fr. DUNLOP : If the Minister had been listening, he would have heard what I said, I am not going to run the risk of being called to order for indulging in tedious ,repetition.

The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND INDUSTRY : I do not understand what you mean.

Mr. DUNLOP: I object to the railway employees being brought under this clause. It will operate detrimental!,- towards those who have not yet finished their time.

The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND INDUSTRY (Hon. H. E. Sizer, Sandgatc): The hon. member for Rockhampton has endeavoured by his song to "make a moun­tain out of a molehill."

Mr. DU::'\I'LOP (Rockhampton): I rise to a. point of order. I object to the Minister terming my advocacy on behalf the railway employees as a song, and I ask that the word be withdrawn. (Laughter.)

The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND INDUSTRY (Hon. H. E. Sizer, Sandgate): I can a·sm·e the hem. member for Rockhamp­ton that I had no intention of referring to him as either a ,ong; or a dance. The rail­way employees ,will benefit by this clause. As evcr:v hon. member knows, there is a ,rail­way award, and the conditions laid down therein will be observed by the group com­mittee which will be set ur for the purpose of controlling apprentices employed by the Commissioner.

Clause 51 agreed to. Clauses 52 to 56. both inclusive, agree:] to. Schedule agreed to. The House resumed. The TE1\IPOR,1RY CHAIR~L\:\1 reported the Bill

with amendment,s.

THIRD READING.

The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND INDUSTRY (Hon. Il. E. Sizer, Sandgate) : I beg to move-

" That the Bill be now read a third time."

Question put and pas-2cl.

BRISBANE CRICKET GROTTND BILL

INITIATION IN Co>P:ITTEE.

(.lir. Ilobcrts, East 'i'oowoornlw, £n the chair.)

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS (Hon. W. A. Deacon, Cunningham): I bc·g to move-

" That it is desirable that a Bill ·be introduced to enable the trustees of the Brisbane Cricket Ground to furthm mort­gage the said ground, and for other inci­dental purposes."

Hon. W. A. Deacon.}

2250 Disposal of Private [ASSEMBLY.] ]I;Jembers' Business.

The pu·rpose of this Bill is to enable the trustees to mortgage the Brisbane Cricket Ground in order to raiJe another £20,000 <>ver and above the present mortgage, wh_ich is for £10,900, for the purpose of convmtmg the ground into a first-class cricket and sports ground. In every case the money will be raised with the approval of the Governor in Council.

Mr. STOPFORD; What will the rate of intere·-·t be?

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS: The usual bank rat•?.

Mr. PoLLOCK: You are not giving them auy adjoining parks?

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS: 1'\o-just their own grounds.

Mr. PE A. SE (H crbert): There is no objec­tion to this Bill, an advance copy of which was courtPouslv supplied to the Opposition by the Minist~r. 'The trustees of the Bris­bane Cricket Ground are men of high repute, rend we ar•l quite satisfted they will handle this matter in the best possible way. The idea of imprm·ing the cricket ground is a h10~t. colnmendablc one, particularly in view of th•• dcsir•l of Queensland to attain a high standard in the realm of cricket. The Bill, which ·.-,-ill give the trustees power to rai.-e sufficinnt money to effect necessary improve­ments. will do much to advance sport in this SLt.e.

Que"tion rut and passed. Thrc House resumed. The C'IIAHl'fAN reported tbat the Committee

had come tn a resolution. Resolution agreed to.

FIRS1' RE.\JliNC:. The SEC!tET.\RY FOR PUBLIC LANDi3

{:Ho!!. \V. }.... D8:-tC'on) (>rn~ningli -zn~j pi'e­scnted the Hill, and moved-

" Tha~ the Bill be now read a first tinF~."

Quest' on put and passed.

SF:COND READING. The SIWRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS

(Hon. \V A. Deacon, Gunningham): I beg L·J move-

" That tbe Bill be now read a second timf'"

Question put and passed.

CoM~IIT'rEE.

(Jfr. Robert.o, East Toowoornba, in the chair.) Clauses 1 to 8, both inclusive, and pre­

amble, agreed to. The House resumed. The CHAIRMAN reported the Bill without

amendment. THIRD READING.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS (Hon. W. A. Deacun, GFnningham): I beg to move-

" 'rhat the Bill be now read a third time."

Question put and passed.

DISPOSAL OF PRIVATE ME::\1BERS' BUSINESS.

The SPEAKER: According to an arrange­ment which I understand h8s been made, the opportunity is now given to hon. members to Yote on the motions appearing on the busi­ness-paper in the names of private members.

[Hon. W. A. Deacon.

It not being a private members' day, but a clay set apart for Government business, no dL·hate can be allowed on the motions.

The first. mot'ion is that standing in the name of the hon. member for l\'l:irani, Mr. Swavne. After W<o have disposed of that motion hon. members will be given an opportunity of moving the motions,. notices of which have been given:

PROFITABLE UTILISATION OF PRO­DUCTS OF SUGAR-CANE OTHER THAN SUGAR.

Question-" That Mr. Swayne's motion-

' That, in view of the uncertai~ty rcgardmg the future of the export mar,<et for sugar, it is desirahle that a full investigation be made, either by Royal Commission or such other means as the Government n1av cousider rnost affective, into the possibifities of profitable utilisa­tion of products of the sugar-cane other than suo-ar-(u) through the conversion of the 1;olasses and possibly some oi the cane juices into industrial alcohol, and "''isting in the '.Wrk alrendy beinr: done in this direction; (b) by the manufacture of cclotcx (1r other n'atcrial from the megass; (c) into !lny ~thcr avP'mCs that n1ay be opened 1n tlns connection and ~ssi~tin~g the ,s~nu~ '-which ~\?od ad~ JOurncd at 6 o C1ock p.1n. on l nursday, 26th Septemb,er-

bc agreed to''-put and pa"scd. [3.30 p.m.]

PRODUCTION OF PAPERS IN RE H. C. SLEIGH AGREE;\1ENT, COLLINS­VILLE COAL CONTR~'I.CT.

"That all papers rdating to the con­tract entu-cd into b.- the Mines Depart­ment with Mr. H." C. Sleigh, of Mel­bom·no. be laid on the tab],, of the House."

Question put; and the House divided:­

AYES, 2!. Mr. B:"l:rber

Bedford Bow Brassington Bruce Bulcock Collins Conroy Cooper Dash Dun lop Foley

.llr. Hanlon Hynes .Tones, A. Kh·wan Mull an Pe~tse Pollock Smith Stop ford \Vellington \Vilson \Vin,·taniey

Tellers: Mr. Barber and l\1r. Bruce.

NJESJ 32. l\1r. Atherton Mr. Kenny

Bell , Kerr Blackley Dr. Kerwin Boyd Mr.·. Longman Brand Mr. Macgroarty Butler Maher Carter Maxwell Clayton Moore Costello Russell, H. M. Daniel Russell, \V. A. Deacon Sizer Edwards Swayne Fry Tedman Grimstone , Tozer Hill , Walker, H. F. Kelso ·warren

Tellers: Mr. Kelso and Mr. H. M. Russell. Resolved in the negative.

Disposal of Private [12 DECEMBER.] l>iembers' Business. 2251

PilOPOSED APPOINTME:\T OF SELECT CO:YIMITTEE TO I:\QUIRE INTO ALLEGATIO~S IN RE SLEIGH AGREEME~T.

Mr. PEASE (Herbert): I beg to move-

" That a Select Committee, consisting of Mr. Speaker, Mr. Jamieson Mr. Kelso, Mr. Harllon, and the mov~r, he herewith appointed to investigate and report to this House upon the statements made in the Legislative Assembly on 3rd Sept0mber by the Minister for Mines (Hon. E. A. Atherton) regarding the Sleigh agreement. The function of such , .)mmittee to be-

(1) To a certain whether the docu­ments in the possession of the Mines Department justified the Minister in his repeated a;scrtions that ' a master mind c·. as behind the acrreement ' and/or in his innuendoes~ that the agreemL'r:t \Yas thus a corrupt one;

(2) To !'lac~ before this House the facts ,n'garding the said agreement, mcludmg the extracts omitted by ML A~hcr~to_n fro1n c_ertain reports con­tame(! m the offi01al documents in the po3s"ssion ?£ the Mines Department, to,;cthc r 1nth all the costs incurred and the p1·ices obtained by the agent.

" That the said. Committee be given FJ ut,honty t.u cxar::une all persons, papers, ana record~ rC'cpured."

Question put: and the House diviqcd :-

Mr. AYES, 24.

Barber Bedford Bow

l\lr. Hanlon

Bra ~sington Bruce Bulcock Collins Conroy Cooper Dash Dunlop Foley

Hynes .Jqnes, A. Kirwan ll1nllan Pease Pollock Smith Stopford \Vellington \Vilson \Vinstanley

Tellers: Mr. Fo!ey and Mr. Hanlon.

~~OEC.:: 3~

Mr. iT!~:::: ~;·_. ~:J;n Boyd Mrs. Longman Brand Mr. Macgroarty Bntler Maher Carter llfaxwell Clayton Moore Costello Russell, H. M. Daniel Ru,sell, W. A. Deacon Sizer JiJdwards Swayne Fry Tedman Grimstone Tozer Hill Walker, H. F. Kelso Warren

Tellers : Mr. Edwards and Mrs. Longman. Resolved in the negative.

PROPOSED INCOME AND (B).

DISALLOW A:\TCE OF TAX REGULATION 3 (.\}

Mr. W. FORGAN SMITH (Mackay): I beg to move-

" That the regulation, dated 12th September, 1929, under the Income Tax Act of 1924, laid on the table of the

·House on the 17th SeptembE'l', 1929 he disallowed." '

Question put; and the House divided :­AYES, 24.

Mr. Barber Mr. Hanlon Bedford Hynes Bow Jones, A. Rrassington Kirwan Bruce Mullan Bulcock Pease Collins Pollock Conroy Smith Coope;;o Stopford Dash Wellington Dunlop \Vilson Foley ,. Winstanley

Tellers : Mr. Brassington and Mr. Bulcoek. NOES, 32.

l\Ir. Atherton Mr. Kenny Bell , Kerr Blnckley Dr. Ken..-in Hoyd ?virs. Lnngman Brand Mr. Macgroarty Butler 1\lah~r Carter Maxwell Clayton 1\T oore Costello Ru"ell, H. M. Daniel Russell, W. A. Deacon Sizer Edwards Swayne Fry Tedman Grimstone Tozer Hill Walker, H. F. Kelso , \Varren

Tellers : Mr. Costello and Mr. HilL Hcm!F·d in the negative.

PROPOSED APPOINTMENT OF ROYAL COI\E\JISSION IN RE SHARE TRANS­ACTWKS IN MOUNT ISA PRO· PRIETARY SILVER-LEAD LIMITED.

:VIr. PEASE (Hn·bprt): I beg to move-" That Chief Justice Blair be ap·

poinkd a Royal Commission io im·esti. gate the allegations made in thi'·· Assembly on the 4th October, in "' hieh the probity of certain members of the Asspmbly was questioned in connection with the Duchess to Mount Isa Railwav Act. the terms of reference of the scope of the comrnisoion to be determined by the Premier and the Le;cder of the Opposition."

Qur,tion put; and the House divided:­

AYES, 2·1. :VIr. Barber Mr.

Bedford Bow Brasslngton Bruce Bulcock Collins Conroy Cooper Dash Dun lop Foley Telle,·s: Mr. Foley and

NOES, 32.

Hanlon Hynes Jones, A, Kirwan Mull an Pease Pollock Smith Stopford Vlellington Wilson Winstanley Mr. Hanlon.

Mr. Atherton Mr. Kenny Bell , Kerr Blackley Dr. Kerwin Boyd Mrs. Longman Brand 1\'Ir. Macgroarty Bntler Maher Carter Maxwell Clayton Moore Costello Russell, H. M. Daniel Russell, W. A. Deacon Sizer Edwards Swayne F~ T~n= Grimston~ Tozer Hill Walker, H. F Kelso V\..Tarren Tellers: 1\fr. Costello and Mr. Kenny.

Re·•olved in the negative.

2252 Special Adjournment. [ASSEMBLY.] Special Adjournment.

SPECIAL ADJOUR:'i'MEl'l'I'.

CLOSE OF SESSfON. The PRl~MIER (Hon. A. E. Moore,

A ubigny): I beg to move--" That the House, at its rising, do

adjourn until Tuesday, 7th January, 1930."

Mr. \V. FORGAN SMITH (Mrzckay): I do not think it advisable that the House should adjourn for that lengthy period. There are certain very important matters that I should like to see Parliament deal with before we go into recess.

The first one is the projected legislation regarding unemployment. It was stated early in the session, and repeated again during the session, that a Bill of a compre­hensive cbaracter dealing with the problem of unemployment \YGuld be introduced this session of Parliament. So far we have seen nothing of such a measure, nor does it appear likely that such a measure will be intro­duced. If the Government got a mandate for anything at all, there can be no doubt of their mandate to deal with the unemployment question. They pledged themselves in e'ery newspaper and on every platform in Queens­land to deal with this quo,tion of unemploy­ment. £2.000.000 was to be spent for the provisi011 of 10,000 jobs. So far as I and the party I lead are concerned, we aro pre­pared to remain sitting to p.1ss any legishtio_n that may be necessary to give effect to therr pledges in ·this respect.

Another matter of urgent importance. and ono which agits.tos the public mind of Queens­land at tho present time, is the proposal to establish abattoirs for Brisbane. Having investigated the problem myself, I know that the provision of abattoirs is desirable. If anything can be done to roo,ganise th.e cattle industry of Queensland and place 1t on a better basis than it is at the present time, then we on this side of the House arc prepared tu deal with it; but I do protest against an_y action that might be taken by the Government during the recess to commit the people of this State to mch a policy without Parliament having had a say in the matter. It affects the liveq of everv citizen within the metropolitan area; it affects very largely the economic interests of those now engaged in the business; and it also deals with the cattle-raising industry in Queens­land, which i' one that is bound to increase in importance in the near iuturo.

A further matter I would like information upon is in rPg~trd to the expenditure of the Federal grant of £185,000 for the immediate relief of the unemployed.

OPPOSITION :MEMBERS : Hear, hear ! Mr. W. FORGAN SMITH: There is a

great amount of unemployment at the present time, and that becornes more acute around the Christmas season of the voar. I v ou!d like to know how that money is going to be spent, and whether measure' will be taken to give employment relief to those people who are in need of it before the end of the year and early in the Kew Year. So far as the matters I have referred to are concerned, we in this pa·rty are prepared to continue the ,;ession in order to give le;;isla­tive effect to a sound policy having that result.

The PRE:\1IER (Hon. A. E. Jlilooro, Aubigny): I would like to mako a remark or two on the speech that has been made by the

[Mr. Smith.

L'-'ader of the Opposition. There is no occa­sion for him to speak in the way he ha5 done. The whole of this session of Parliament ha» been occupied in passing measurus tor the purpose of relieving unemploymc1t perman­ently.

GoVERNMENT ME)JBERS: Hear, hear! The PREMIER: Practical!-<;· every Bill

that has gone through the ~1onse this sessi?n has been put forward w1th that defin1te object in view.

Mr. HANLON: There is more unemployment than over in the State.

A GOVERN:IIENT MEMBER: That is not cor­rect.

The PRE:\IIER : The hon. member cai'.not expect an improvement in a day or two-it will take a little time before the effect of the Go' ernment's legislation can be seen. The hon. member knows what happ•'l!Od J;l

the fourteen years of his own Lnbour ilovern­ment. (Government Members: " Hear, hear!" and Opposition interruption.)

The SPEAKER: Order !

The PREMIER : We were handed down a legac'· from the past Government, and the· whole of this session of Parliament has been devv~ad to putting forward Bills-not as palliativos or to give temporary relief, but to give perman<>nt relief. GovER~JlENT ME>IBERS: Mr. POLLOCK: You

10,000 jobs while that afford8<!.

Hear, hear! promised to find relief was being

The 1JRE2\IIER: The hon. member should' have a bit of sens~o.

l\fr: PoLLOCK: I expect you to honrur your pronnsc.

The SPEAKER : Order ! The PREMIER: Practically every Bill that

has been put on the statute-book-about twenty-five in all-during the last f~mr months has been in the direction of honounng the pron1jsps we 1nade.

GoVERN1IENT ME1IBERS: Hear, hear !

The PREMIER: Can hon. members oppo­site sav that they have honoured the pro­mises thov made? (Opposition interruptiOn.} vV e \vill ~lo more during our tlnee years of office. '\V" were not expected to put the whole of our programme into operation dur­ing the first session.

Investigations arc being made into t):le question of abattoirs. The late, Prem1er prom1sed that he would ca.rry out tne recom­mendations of the Beef Cattle Industry Commission on behalf of t,he cottle-own.crs of Queensland and I reiterated that promise.

Mr. W. Fo~GAN SMITH: \Ve never said we would do what you propose to do.

The PREMIER: You do not know what I propose to do.

GOVER!\>IE:'\T MEMBERS: Hear, hear !

The PREMIER : There is one thing tl>:at I propose to rlo before an abattoir is esta)J; lished in Brisbane·, and that is to pass. a B1ll through the House in order to make 1t pos­sible for it to be operated in the way it shoulrl be. Thoro must be a Bill put through before an abattoir is established. (Opposition interruption.)

r4 p.m.] The SPEAKER: Order! I warn hon.

wembers that, if they will not obey my call,

Special AdJ'ournment. (12 DECE111BER.] Valedictory. 2253

'I shall take action. It is not my desire to do so, but I am not going to Bllow the debate to go on in the way in which it has been carrif'd on with those continued interrup­tion~. I givP hon. mcn1hers fair warning in regard to the matter.

l'Y1r. POLLOCK interjected. The SPEAKEP,: Order ! I do not wish

to take any action. \Ve have come to the end -Df the se;sion.

Mr. STOPFORD (.11ount ill organ): I move, Mr. Speaker-

" That you be no longer heard." The SPEAKER: Order! (Uproar.)

Mr. STOl'FORD: I move-. That you be no longer heard."

:'IIE:.\1BER N .U1ED. The SPEAK ER : I name the hon. member

for Mount l\Iorgan. (Renewed uproar.)

The P REM! ER : Surely the hon. member is going to be reasonable. I appeal to him. (Opposition interjections.)

A GovERN}f~NT l'.IE,IBER: He is trying to make a martyr of himself.

The PREMIER : It is not customary to appeal to hon. m;?mbers under the-e circum­stances, but this is an exceptional time.

:'11r. STOlTORD: Have I no right to move ~,he " gag''?

The PRE:'I1IER : The hon. member is only eeeking nocoriety-ho knov , that. Surely the hon. member will withdraw and apolo­gise!

Mr. POLLOCK: He was not asked to with­<:lraw and apologise. He was not disorderlv. Ho simpl7 moved "That the Sneaker be no longer heard."

The SPE.\KEH : Order !

The PREJ'\IIER: Then, in that case, I lwve no option but to move-

" That the hon. member for Mount Morg_an be_ su~pended for the remainder of thiS SOS• IOn ..

Mr. STOPFORD: You would suspend m for life. You " gagged " us.

The SPEAKER: I do not wish to put the motion propo>cd by the Premier. I give the hon. member another opportunity in order that he may :1 void suspension at this time.

Mr. STOPFORD (Mount M' organ): MJ· understanding was that I had the right under the Standing Orders to do what I did. If I .1.m wrong, I will withdraw. I withdraw.

SPECIAL ADJOURNMENT. CLOSE OF SESSIOX-RESUMPTION OF DEBATE.

Mr. DFNLOP (Rockhampton): I rise to speak in case a division is called for on the question of the adjournment till next year. So far as unemployment is concerned, I want to be consistent. and say that since the Government have three years in which to put their policy into operation, I naturally expect them to do at least one-third Pach year. So far as I am concerned, they have done fairly well now.

With respect to the abattoirs, in which I am very much concerned as ono who was

intcre'ted in the matter when the Commis­sion visited the Central district on this very important question-I am a strong believer in abattoirs under proper conditions­prominent cattlemen in my division hava vpproached me in Brisbane and exprecsed strong opposition to the purchase of Swifts meatworks. However, as the l 0 remier has s.1id that he intends to give the House the opportunity of discussing the matter, I think that should be satisfactory to everyone, since every hon. member knows that he will have the opportunity to exprr~s his opinion on the floor of the House at the proper time. People in my division arr very much con­C;·rned about the question; hence we wanted to know the position, and, when the matter do0s come forward, I intend to oppose the purchaco of Swifts meatworks .

Question-" That the resolution (1l1r. Moore's motion) be agreed to "-put and passed.

-L~LEDIC'TORY.

The PREMIER (Hon. A. E. :\Iooro, :lubigny): I beg to move-

'· That the House do novv adjourn." I ,should like to wish hon. members the " compliments of the season." They are going awav at the end of a rather strc:1uous Sf''3siou. I know that it has been rather difficult for many of them, eopecially for the Leader o£ the Opposition. He seems to have done the lion's share of the work, as the Leader of the Opposition generally does-I know it is a pretty onerous position.

I also wish to say a word of recognition o£ the attention that has been given by hon. members on both sides of the House to the legislation which has boon going through. I thank the officers of the House for their courtesy and attendance, which has at all times been available to hon. members.

I also wish to congratulate the Speaker aud the Chairman of Committees on th() manner in which thev have carried out their duties. It is their duty to maintain order in this House with fairness and justice to boih sides and both the Sp~aker and Chair­man of Committees have carried out their duty in a way creditable to themselves and tu the House generally.

I also appreciate the work of the "Han­sard" staff. We all know how difficult the ,-,·ork is. I think that is recognised. It has been stated in this House time and time a gain that the " Hansard " staff carry out their \York in a particularly efficient manner. They cany out their duties sometimes under \'cry difficult circumstances. (He:>r, hear!) At times there are so manv interjections that it must be very difficult inde'ld to make "' correct and true report.

Mr. BEDFORD: It is very hard to get anything right from the Opposition ;icle.

The PREMIER: It is very seldom that there is any complaint whatever as to the way in which the 1

' IIan~a.rd " staff c,trr~, ,,ut their duties. (Bear, hear !)

I hope that during the coming recc .. s the position in this State, financil.l anti other­wise, will improve. vVe all recognise that ,, hatcver may be thP position of the State a time of financial stringency me.kes for tremendous difficulties; and anything that can be done to relieve that po~ition, whether m• this side of the world or the other ,;iu.,

Hon. A. E. Moore.]

2254 Valedictory. [ASSEMBLY.] Valedictory.

of the world, will be of advantage to Queens­land. We are all at one in looking to the welfare of this State. We may look at jt from different points of view and differ as b> the policy to be followed in achieving that end; but our one objective undoubtedly is the welfare and prosperity of the State. I do hope that during the coming six or seven months the financial position will improve so that the development of the State will continue in a way in which it should continue. I wish all hon. members a " Pleasant and Happy Christmas and a Prosperous Now Year." (Hear, hear!)

Mr. W. FORGAN SMITH ptackay): I wish to take this opportunity of wishing all hon. members a " Happy and Prosperous New Year." I have no persoval feeling agaimt any hon. member in this Chamber. (Hear, hear !) As Leader of the Opposition il. this House, I deal with all Bills from tho point of Yi•'W of what I consider to be in the public mterests. As the Leader of the Government has stated, this session has been a somewhat strenuous one; but, so far as I am concerned, I have no complaint to make about that. I am prepared to take my part in the work here or in any place in which I ma) be called npon to do any work. Fortunately, I have the capacity for sus­tained effort, and that has been nececsary during this session. Much remarkable legis­lation has been introduced-legislation which will have a very far-reaching effect on tho lives end interests of the people of Queens­land.

'I'ho Government of the day got a mandate from the pe•>ple. I haYe never denied that at any time : but the fact that is often not fully realised is that the Labour Party now in Opposition aim got a mandate from the people. \Ve obtained a mandate from twenty-six electorates; but apparently many members of this Chamber do not realise that it is our d11ty to represent the people who elected us. Consequently, when a division of opinion exists, it is always well to remember that the Opposition as constituted at the present time had a definite mandate from a large section of the people of Queens­la.nd. It is not my purpose this afternoon to refer to that legislation other than to say that some of it is remarkable. Some of it, I repeat, will affect the people of this State.

If the Government of the, day and their policy were to be regarded as a permanent feature of the life of this State, I should bo filled with forebodings with regard to the future; but I beiiev<> that the Government and their policy is only a mere incident in the life of the people. I regard the Govern­rnent in much the san1e Wcty as I would an illness in the nursery, such as measles or scarlet fevc>r. vVhilo they are difficult enough during the period of the illness, neverthe­less, when the body is strong, the patient survivco. I can look above and beyond the present Government, and have every C<?n­fidence in the future of Queensland. \V1th the Premier, I hope that, with the return of good seasons, good fortune will return in manv dire'·tions and an improven1cnt result in the cconontic' conditions whwh ,~·e in this State have no control over, that the coming year will be one of prosperity to this State, that the people will develop their industries ~tncl prosper, and that Queensland will be developed as a State along the lines it ehould be developed.

[!Ion. A. E. Jiom·e.

I wish also to commend the officers of this House for their work. The reporting st-aff, inclnding the typists and others on that staff, the messengers of the House, the librarian, and the dining-room staff, h.:tve all done very valun blc \vork in carrying on the service& of this House. I commend them for it, and wish them also the "compliments of the season."

So far as the Speaker and Chairman of Committee.s referred to bv the Premier are concerned, I have nothing "to thank them for, and nothinc; to commend them for.

OPPOSITION MEMBERS: Hear, hear !

Mr. KE~SY: That is very bad form on your part.

Mr. W. FORGA::-.1 SMITH: I am afraid thev have not attained that mental poise, and exhibited that fine regard for basic justice that it is necessary for them to have iu order to obtain the full respect of all hon. members. However, I hope that with the· experience gained and with tiHle for _reflec­tion between now and the next meetmg of Parliament, any compl~tint made now In

that respect will disappear.

Mr. Kcr.so: Try and be big for once.

J\1r. W. FORGAN SMITH: I wish all hon. members indiYidually success for the future. I again repeat that I hope the State will get over its maJOr difficulties, and that the people will go on and proper.

l\lr. Dl'~L\'P (Rockhampton): I am very proud to rise in my place here in the Hol_lse, becouse I also h"'ve had " strenuous hm8 a.ooainst o-reat odds; but I am prouder than e~er to ~ccupy the position I do. I have a sort of perpetual leasehold here, but now that ihe Bill has passed this Chamber in favour of freehold tenure, I hope that I shall be able to convert m" leasch0ld into a pretty big freehold. With the Premin· and the Leader of the Opposition, I extend to hon. members and the staff of this House a very merrv ChristnJas and a happy and prosperous New" Year. The time to extend the han_d of good ft.l1o\Yship is whc11 we are on th!& mortal coil and not when we depart.

With regard to tho policy I stood for, and which was endorse;1 .hy an important centre like Rockhampton, ~ can safely say that I have faithfully tried to act up to Jt .. I ha :re alwavs assumed an independent att1tude m this House, and ha Ye supp9rted any m~asure or measures which I cons1deeed was m the be•t intere,ts of my electors, and for ~he benefit· of the country at large, nrespecbve of the ,-ie'c>s of the Government or the Opposition There i' no doubt that son:e important leg1slatwn has been }Jassed th1s session.

I regret to say that mest. of the measures ha \'C been rnslJE:d through th1s Chamber much too rapidly, and l can only . think t~at !he outcome ·xill be that amendmg legJslatw_n , ·ii! be necc ,sarv. It appears to me that 1t 1votdcl do infinitely more good to. ~eliberat; slowly but carcfLllly an the lcgJS1atwn o. this countn--tha t it would be far better to pc:~s legisl~tion in a thorough wa.y, even though it be limited, than to concentrate on too much l0gi ,lation and prrss ic in an ill­J1rE'pared fash;on. Surely that course should conmend itself to any Govcn1mer>t, particu­larly a Government ' hi eh i: in the first 3('s~1on of its Parliament.

Valedictory. [12 DECEMBER.] Valedictory. 2255

I can testify that I am in a much better physical condition to-day than when I entered this House as the representative of Rockhampton. I am proud to be able to say that at a!! times I have had the courage oE my convict.ions wheu dealing with the many matters coming forward for considera­tion, and that. despite those hon. members who tried to hinder me, when, of course, I got protection from the Chair up to a reasonable degree-and on that matter sba!l have something to say presently.

I wieh tho Govermnent every success in the important measures which have received parliamentary sanction. Particularly do I express the hope that success will attend the legislcttion dealing with the boys and girls of this State, bec;,use that will have much to do with the progress and prosperity of Queensland.

I have not very much to complain about your giving me a "square go," Mr. Speaker. You have endeavoured to assist me at times, and I have obeyed your orders, seeing thu t ,, ou, of course, are the judge in these matters.

I regret to say, however, that I cannot give the same testimonial to the Chairman of Committees. I recognise that the duties of both yourself, Me. Speaker, and of the Cha1rman of Committees could be consider­" bly lightened if hon. members paid due regard to the provisions of Standing Order 114. Perhaps it would be a o:ood thing if, during the recess, all hon. members made themselves more conversant vdth the con~ tents of the Standing Orders; and it might not be unwise for +he Premier to ask the ,members of his part.y in their deliberations to adopt a different attitude from that which they have in m:tny cases adopted, because their conduct has in a great measure brought trouble to the Chairman of Committees and yourself, Mr. Speaker. (Government dis­sent.) It would appear from the uproar that they arc closing the session with scenes reminiscent of those which have occurred during the session. I am disgusi cd with the w~y things have been conducted-not from the point of view of the Chitir, Mr. Speaker, but from the viewpoint that hon. members might have done more to assist both yourself and the Chairman of Com­mittees. From my public experience, I can truthfully my that it has been the most disgraceful state of affairs that I have ever witne; .,eel. The most serious errors of the Chairman of Committees have occurred recently, and I only hope that he will realise thqt " it is never too late to mend" ; but l say quite sincerely that in no shape or f,rm have I received a " square go " from t.he Chairman of Committees.

Mr. POLLOCK (Cireoory): I desire to wish members of the Government Party the '" complimc'nts of tho season." I desire also to say that, while they may have a '·:Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year," I am afraid that the unemployed will not be able to enjoy the snmo ·' Merry Christmas and Happy New Year."

I have no desire to raise a fight on this the last day of the session. I want to add that I am dissatisfied with the treatment we have_ received in this Chamber during the srssion. vVe on this side have been loath to move a motion to disagree with the attitude taken un bv the Sneaker or the Chairman of Committees, f~r the reason that we knew the motion would not be

carried, and we do not want to put our­'clves in the position of footballers who blame the referee for everything. We are sportsmen enough to take what comes to us; but there ha vo been occasions in this Cham­ber when hon. members have not been allowed to exercise the rights that are given to them under the Standing Orders. 'l'he Standing Orders have the force of law. I must put myself right with the public. I have no desire to reflect upon you, Mr. Speaker, or upon anyone else but I want to draw atten­tion to " Votes 'and Proceedings" of Tues­day lOth December, where, in a ruling you gav~, you are reported as having said-

" Treasonable or seditious language or an irreverent use of His Majesty's name >wuld be rebuked by any subject out of Parliament, and it is only consisteut with decency that a member of . the Legislature should not be permitted openly to use such language in his place in Parliarnent."

You went on to say-" I do not suggest that the honourable

member's offence was sufficiently heinous ('? j u,~tify his committal to the lower --

I suppo,e in this case it would have been Boggo Road-

" but it certainly amounted to an irreverent and disrespectful use of His Majesty's name."

That goes out to the general public, and thete was no contradiction in any Jl(~ws­papcr; and any man reYlin1J"' that would be led to believe that I had u'ed language disrespectful towards the King and had been guilty of either seditious or ttea;onabl0 utter­ances. With all dne deference to your ruling, ~Ir. Speaker, I want to p<•illt out that the versE·s which I quoted m this House and which :you wvuld not allow to appear in ""Hansard "-the officinl record-"ere passed by the military ccnsr,r in 1E•l7. at the tin,e when the war fever ran high, and at the very time when the wa1· ceJBvl' prohibited the hon. member for vVarrego from publishing a portion of the Sermon on the Mount.

:\Ir. BEDFORD: Because the words " Blessed are the peacemakers" appeared.

Mr. POLLOCK: Exactly. It cannot be said that the censor would have allowed anythin[ to go through that was disloyal. I say, therefore, that you have put me in rather badly with the public of Queensland in regard to this matter.

The Leader of the Opposition, the hon. member for Brcrner, and myself, because of our long association with the administration of the Standing Orders, have had the job ieft to us by the Opposition of protecting their rights ; and, in the exercise of that function, I have frequently had to call the attention of yourself aud the Chairman of Committees-frequently in vain, unfortu­nately-to the specific reading of the law as laid down in the Standin;,; Orders. This action of yours gives me a nasty rap, and infers that I used language that was par­tially seditious and treasonable, and does not give to the public what I said to enablE< them to judge for themselves.

\Yhat is representative government? Under representative govcrnrncnt the pnblie ought to be entitled to judge for themselves as

Mr. Pol!ock.]

2256 Valedictory. [ASSEMBLY.] ValedictorY!

to the propriety of what any of their representatives say. Ono of th0 func­tions of Parliament is to keep a true record so that we shall be judged upon our exact words. Reading both the " Gallery N ot0s " and reading thP expurgH ted reports of " Hansard," one would be led to the conclusion that some hon. member.-· on this sido of the Chamber are common taproom brawlers instead of responsible members of the Legislative A•sembly. I resent that very ;nuch. I think it has no right to exist, and -< thmk that, when I refused to congratulate you at the opening of this session I did the wise thing. I regret it exceedingly and it gives me the utmost pain to be f~rced to say that I c"tnnot now extend those con­gratulation" tG you. I only hope, sir, that dunng the recess--

A GovERN1•E~T MEMBER: Be a man!

~-1~. I'OLLOCK: I am speaking my opuuons, and I am man enough to stand up and cxpres-. them.

The PREMIER : It does not want a wonder­ful man to do what you are doing.

Mr. POLLOCK: I want to add that the Standing Orders of this Chamber are framed with the object of protecting the rights of the mmonty-whatever that minority may consist of, "hether it may be the hon. mem­ber for Rockhampton or any individual mem­b~r on this side of the House or the other. Tnose who do not know those facts are not ~ware of the_ principles under!:; ing the Stand­mg Orders.

The PREMIER: It is a pity you have only just wakened up to it.

Mr. POLLOCK: We have had to protect ourselves; and we have not had that protec­twn from 01ther the Speaker or the Chair­man of Committees to which hon. members of the Opposition are entitled.

M-r. EDWARDS: And we did not have it from you.

Mr. POLLOCK : I early realised that the only way in which order could be maintained iJ?- this Cl;a:nber. was by the absolutely irnpar­tral admrmstratwn of the Standing Orders. I repeat that, and I did that; and every hon. member on both sides of the House at the time aclmit.ted that it was cjonc. ·whenever a J?-lember had an op_portunity under the Stand­mg Orders to do anything to protect his nghts as an Opposition member it was done.

111r. KELSO : Only sometimes.

_Mr. Euw_ARDS: They were men enough to grve you fmr play, and that is more than you did.

Mr. POLLOCK: It is time that a protest was rnade.

Mr. MAHEE: You select a bad time.

Mr. POLLOCK: I select the only time.

Mr. MAIIER: You arc doing it for political purposes.

lVlr. POLLOCK: There has been no time during this session when hon. members were .allowed to state their objections to thD course pursued by the Speaker or the Chairman of Committees. Has there been any such oppor­tunity afforded? As this is our opportunity I desi-re in the most respectful language that I can convey my sentiments in to wish you, i\fr. Speaker, a "Merry Christmas," and to

[Mr. Pollock.

hope that during the recess you will make vourself more conversant with the Standing Ord0rs.

Mr. BEDFORD (TVar1·1 go); It would be hypocritical on my part if I were to endorse without modification the general formula of '·Peace on earth and good will towards men." The real slogan is " Peace on earth to men of good will," and to the men of good will I will giYe a.ll the peace I <;an, but the men of ill will deserve as little peace as possible. After a session of reaction and destruction, and nothing dorte in the way of legislation but the destruction of Labour legislation built up during a period of fourteen years, measures for the clisoipation of the public eshte, mea­sures fo-r the destruction of the industrial standards of this country, ;ctnd measures for the introduction of cheap boy labour whcrr·ver possible, it would be quite hypo­critical if I joined in th<' general belief that everything is right in the "-orlcl.

During the cour<e of this cession I have had reason to feel a sense of pe,r,onal inj us­tice. On 4th October, only for the purpose of blackening Mr. Theodme-an attempt that failed-in the Federal elcdion, a Bill-which v. 'ts never alluded to by the Government side during the course of the debate-was used as a vehicle for an attack upon myself. The J'remier has been manly enough to state in this Chamber that he did not believe a word of it, and that hD knew very well that my motives were quite clean.

Mr. KELSO : He never said that.

Mr. BgDFORD: He did say that.

Mr. KELSO: He could not say that.

Mr. BEDFORD: You are so busv scratch­ing yourself that you cannot think. ··The posi­tion generally about that was that, if the Premier had sufficient men behind him of a calibre equal to himself, he would have done me the justice of giving me a separate inquiry, in accordance with the notice which has been remO\'cd from the notice paper to­clay by a vote of the Government against me.

The Premier himself recognised [4.30 p.m.] the injustice of trying to tie this

up with Mungana, and I thank him for his personal efforts that way and his personal belief in me as stated here, as com­pared with the general conduct of the "jackals" on the other side.

The SPEAKER: Order !

Mr. BEDFORD: I withdraw.

The SPEAKER : The languagP the hon. member has used is not parliamentary, and I ask him to withdraw it.

Mr. BEDFORD: I withdraw.

An OPPOSITION ME:'viBER: " Dingoes ! "

Mr. BEDFORD : I would not say "din­goes," becctuse zoology, with geometry and geology, have been declared disorclerly­(Government interruption\-I am not listening to any suggestions or interjections made by the morons on the other side.

GOVERNMENT ::\1E}IBERS: Withdraw .

The SPEAKER : Order ! I ask the hon. member to withdraw the word "morons."

Jliir. BEDFORD: I withdraw. I ask the Premier to give a straight inquiry into the question of Mount Isa, although it seems to have been shelved, and now I can do

Valedictory. [12 DECEJ\1BER.] Valedictory. 2257

no more. For the rest, I wish those members OL the other side whom I like-(laughter)­the best of time• in the New Year, and those I do not like I take no notice of. I wish the people of this State the best that can happen to them-which will inchtde a change of Government as won as po'~~ible-and I ,vish the '' Hnnsard " staff a sn1aller :.3ensc of partisanship and a bigger sense of fair reporting, and for the presiding officers of this House I wish a better working know· ledge of the Standing Orders.

The SPEAKER: I thank the Premier and the Leader of the Opposition for their good wishes, as well as the members of the House. I thank them also for the way they have spoken in llpprr•eiation of the work done by the officers oi Parliament in every section of this building. and also with regard to the work which has been carried cut bv thE' "'Hansard" staff. I suppose that the" work they do is 'arried out U11Cl•'r the greatest possibl0 difiicultic,;. Hon. ml'mbers on bt,th sides will admit that the accommodation pro­Yided is not what it should be, if correct reports of the dcba tes are to be made.

HONOURABLE Mr:MBERS: Hear, lJear!

The SPEAKER: With regard to myself and any remarks that may have been made with regard to me, let me >-ay that I have not given a single ruling nor said a single thing that I would withdraw at this present moment.

GovERNMENT MEMBERS: Hear, hear !

The SPEAKER: I claim that in carrying out my duties as Speaker I have had no time to spare ; nor has any member of the Gon~rnrnent come near me to ask me to ?o anything or give any ruling or assistance In any way whatever. Since I haYe been l'lected to the position of Speaker of this House T lune not been at any mcctinO' of the Governnwnt Party until yc,;terday, \~hen I thought it was my dutv to be preseHt for a few minuteR. ~

Mr. KELoO: At a presentation.

The SPEAKER: I have had no report from. any member who was present at any meetmg of our party as to what was taking place at those meetings. I felt that, as Speaker, I should endeavour to free myself a.o far as was humanly possible from anything of a party nature.

Mr. PoLLOOK: You never gave a ruling that leaned to this side.

The SPEAKER: And I claim to have done that. I claim to have given as much :>ttention as any man living to the Stand­mg· Orders smce I have occupied this position. I have been in this ·House on the days when Parliament ha·; been sitting for from twelve to thirteen hours a day. I have never been out of the Chamber until last niorht when I had to go lo a w<>dding. I have~ gi~on the whole of my time and attention to the study of the Standing Orders, and I claim that my knowledge of the Standing Orders­although I say it myself-is second to tli~tt of no one in this Chamber.

GovERNMENT MEMBERS: Hear, hear ! The SPEAKER: The studv of the Stand­

iug Orders and the practice. and procedure of British Parliaments is an amazing study for anyone who follows it up, C':lpocially when he meets the contradictory rulings that arc given by the Speakers of Parliaments throughout the Empire-even of our own Parliament.

1929--6 y

I have. taken out the mojorib: of the rulings gtvcn by Speakers in this Parlia­ment, and jt is arnazing to discoYer the many contradictio;,s in connection with the interpretution of the 3ta•cding Orders. D. spite wh; t tho hrJ,, lJLmb.'r for Gregory n1uy say. th" Standin~ OrJers are not statutes. A statute cannot be amended except by Parliament.

Mr. POLLOCK: You cannot amend the Standing Orders except by Parliament.

Th" SPEAKER: Order! I did not inter­rupt. the hou. mc1nbcr. Tht ro is a certain arnount of cl~' ticit.~, in the iut.crproLttion of the Standing Ordr·rs in the British Parlia, ments throughout the ·.:orld. The applica· tion of co1nrnon :sen,~o in the proper o,nd corn~ plete interpretation of !he Stoutding Orders is absolutely nccessar:' by anyol1e who OCGupics the· position of Speaker. Con1mon s;:,nsc is required in the interpretation of the Standing Ordr rs and in carrying out the business of this House. I claim to hav·J exercised that common sense. I have given hon. members a ~onsiderablu omount of latitude. If I wore to carr. out in this Chamber the directious laid do~vn in " May " and by other authorities, hon. members on both sides would be hardly able to say a \Yord.

Mr. PoLLOCK: That is not what yon are there for.

The SPBAKER: I am not hero for that; but, if I carried out those dir~Cctions, hon. members would be hardly able to make a speech at all. I am as groat a belie,·er in freedom of speech as any member. on eii.her the Government side or thn Opposttlon stde. l hln-e not endeavoured in ;;ny shape or form to curb the freed0m of hon. members in their desire to give cx;lrc .. "ion to their opiuions. nor will I do eo in tho future. The same can be said of the Chairman of Committl'e,. It is a vcn' difficult matter to take up a new position tlnd lCGrn everything in a. short time. Both the Chairman of Com­mittees and myself took up new positions, and I claim that we became fully cognisant of our duties promptly and quickly. (Hear, hear !) I am quite prepared to submit all mv rulings as Rpeakcr to any Speaker in any part of the Commonwealth, and I feel sure that vcn- little fault "·ould bo found wtth them. {have giv0n them in good faith, and with the ono desire to see that the debates were conducted as they should be conducted in this Chamber.

I am very sorry to say that I have not always had the assistame of hon. members in carrying out that duty. It 1s absohttely essential for the good conduct of the busmcss of this Assomblv and for the true Interpre­tation of the "standing Order,; goveming debate that the Speaker ·hould have the aesistance of the whole of the members of the House if he is lo carry out his duties satisfactorily. I h~Yc nothing more to say than to wish every hon. n1l'm her-I make no exceptions---a very merry Christmas and a. pro pcrous and happy l'\ow Year. I shall be vorv pleased to meet every hon. member in th,; refreshment·roarn at an informal gathering at which thoro will be no speeches of any kind.

HoNOl'RABLE lVIEMm:u~: H"""· hear, Question put and pasq•rl. The House adjourned at 4.39 p.m.

Hon. C. T.aylm·.]

2258 Assent to Bills. [ASSEMBLY.] Prorogati01t,

BILLS ASSENTED TO A 'I' CLOSE OF SESSION.

rJazcttr." Extraordinary were issued notify. iug the assent of His Excellency the Governor to the following Bills:--

(Thursda!f, 19th Deccrnbe1')­

,J ury Bill;

Railway,; Acts Amendment Bill;

Stamp Ads Amendment Bill;

Workers' Compensation Acts Amend-m<mt Bill;

Main Roads Arts Ameudmcnt Bill ;

Hospitals Acto Amendment Bill:

Patriotic Funds Administration Ac-ts Amendment Bill;

Constitution Act Amendment Bill of 1929, ::-i'o. 2;

Land Tax Act Amendment Bill.

( TucM!r.Ly, f!/;lh ]), ccmbcr)-Industrial Conciliation and Arbitration

Bill; Soil Survey Bili; Profes,;ional Eugincers Bill; Local Authoritieo Acts .\mendrnent Bill; ,Justices Acls Alllendment Bill; Royal Nationd Agricultural and Indus­

• trial Association of Queensland Bill; Pittsworth Soldiers' Memorial (Applica-

tion of Funds) Validation Bill; Mining Acts Amendment Bill; Brisbane Cricket Ground Bill ; Apprentices and Minors Bill.

PROROGATION.

Parliament was prorogued by the following Proclamation in aazette Bxtraordina1'!1, Tuesday, 24th December, 1929.

A PROCLA~fATION by His Excellmcy SIR 'l'HmiAS HERBH:RT .ToHN CHAn!Al' GoODWIN, Lieutenant­Gener.ti on the Retired Li"t and in the R"sen·e of Officers of His Majesty's Army, Kni~ht Commander of the Most Honourable Order of the Bath, Companion of the Most Dis­tinguished Order of St. Michael and St. Gwrge, Companion of the Distinguished Service Order, Governor of the State of Queensland and its Dependencies, in the Commonwealth of Australia.

[L.g.l .JOHN GOODWIN,

Governor.

IN pursuance of the power and authority vested in me as Governor of the State aforesrui.d, I, SIR THOMAS HERBERT JOHN CHAPMAN GOODWIN, do, by this my Proclamation, Prorogue the Parliament of Queensland to TUESDAY, the Eighteenth day of February, 1930.

Given under my Hand and 8eal, at Government House, Brisbane, this twenty-fourth day of December, in the year of our L~rd one tC.ousand nine hundred and twenty-nine, and in the twentieth year of His Majesty's reign.

By Command, A. E. MOOHE.

Gon S.tvE '£HE KING!