Jason Treas testimony Nov 4, 2010 USA Eastern District

8/13/2019 Jason Treas testimony Nov 4, 2010 USA Eastern District

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IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA

---o0o---

BEFORE THE HONORABLE WILLIAM B. SHUBB, JUDGE

---o0o---

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,

Plaintiff,

vs. No. CR. S-07-248

LARRY SIXTO AMARO, GERARDO

LOPEZ MORA, ERNEST PAUL

KILLINGER, and JASON MICHAELSTEWART HANSON,

Defendants.

/

---o0o---

REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

JURY TRIAL

TESTIMONY OF JASON TREAS

VOLUME 1

THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 4, 2010

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Reported by: KIMBERLY M. BENNETT, CSR #8953

KIMBERLY M. BENNETT, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER, USDC -- (916) 442-842


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APPEARANCES

For the Plaintiff:

BENJAMIN B. WAGNERUnited States Attorney

501 I Street, Suite 10-100

Sacramento, California 95814

BY: WILLIAM S. WONG

JASON HITT

Assistant U.S. Attorneys

Also Present:

ROSEMARY SHAUL

JOHN HAYES

LARITZA DIAZGONSEN

For Defendant Larry Sixto Amaro:

LAW OFFICE OF PETER KMETO

1007 7th Street, Suite 100


BY: PETER KMETO

For Defendant Gerardo Lopez Mora:

LAW OFFICE OF HAYES H. GABLE, III

428 J Street, Suite 354


BY: HAYES H. GABLE, III

For Defendant Ernest Paul Killinger:

LAW OFFICE OF MICHAEL B. BIGELOW

428 J Street, Suite 350


BY: MICHAEL B. BIGELOW

(Continued next page...)


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APPEARANCES (Continued)

For Defendant Jason Michael Stewart Hanson:

LAW OFFICES OF SCOTT L. TEDMON

1050 Fulton Avenue, Suite 218Sacramento, California 95825

BY: SCOTT L. TEDMON

Also Present:

LARRY SIXTO AMARO, Defendant

GERARDO LOPEZ MORA, Defendant

ERNEST PAUL KILLINGER, Defendant

JASON MICHAEL STEWART HANSON, Defendant

SABRINA PANTALEONI


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INDEX

GOVERNMENT WITNESSES: PAGE:

TREAS, JASON

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. HITT 1


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1

SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA

THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 4, 2010

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THE COURT: Are you ready with your next witness or do

you need a break?

MR. HITT: We're ready, Your Honor.

THE COURT: You may call your next witness.

MR. HITT: United States calls Jason Treas.

THE CLERK: Please step forward. Stand in front of

the court reporter right there and face me, please. Raise

your right hand, please.

JASON TREAS,

a witness called by the Government, having been first duly

sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the

truth, testified as follows:

THE WITNESS: I do.

THE CLERK: Thank you. You may be seated. Please

state your full name, spell your last name for the record.

THE WITNESS: Jason Lee Treas; T-R-E-A-S.

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. HITT:

Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Treas.

A. Good afternoon.

Q. If you could do me a favor, pull that microphone close

to your mouth, or sit a little closer, just to make sure we


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can hear you. Thank you.

A. Is that better?

Q. Yes, much better.

Mr. Treas, in what city were you born?

A. In Richmond, California.

Q. And do you speak Spanish?

A. Yes.

Q. How did you learn Spanish?

A. Growing up with my family.

Q. I want to direct your attention to the middle of 2003;

did you meet a person known to you as Silk?

A. Yes.

Q. Between approximately 2003 and 2007 -- 2006, sorry,

did you engage in drug trafficking with the person you knew

as Silk?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. I'm going to now display to you on the screen to your

right what's been received in evidence as Government's

Exhibit 10.

Do you recognize the person in Government's

Exhibit 10?

A. I do.

Q. Who is that?

A. Marcos Silk Gomez.

Q. And Marco Gomez was the person you knew as Silk?


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participate in meetings that -- where you discussed

committing criminal acts?

A. I did.

Q. And who were the participants in these meetings that

you were engaged in?

A. Me, Silk, Shadow, James, G and Basil from

San Francisco.

Q. And where were the meetings held in this early time

period 2004?

A. Various locations that Silk would set up to meet in

San Francisco.

Q. Within the city of San Francisco?

A. Yes.

Q. And did you -- did the group have a name that you

called these particular meetings?

A. Juntas.

Q. Is that a Spanish term for something?

A. Yeah. It's kind of like a gathering.

Q. How did these juntas start? What was the purpose of

these juntas that you were engaged in?

A. The purpose of the junta was to organize resources and

manpower for the NF regiments in San Francisco and

surrounding counties.

Q. How frequent would you say the juntas were in this

early time period in 2004?


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A. At least once a week.

Q. And what sort of criminal activities did you discuss

in order to further the purpose of these juntas?

A. Available resources for drug trafficking, and

robberies, and weapons, and whatever criminal activities that

we could be involved in that would financially benefit the

regiments.

Q. During these juntas, were there precautions that the

group took in order to avoid law enforcement detection?

A. Yes.

Q. What sort of precautions did the group take during the

meetings?

A. There was a lot of evasive driving and, you know,

calculation of where we're going to meet, secret locations,

the turning off of cell phones and other electronic devices

that could be tracked.

We also had some devices that detected monitoring

devices. Like, for instance, if the phone was tapped, or

there was a room that was tapped, we had electronic devices

that would detect those signals being sent out.

Q. And what were the -- and the purpose of these

precautions was, obviously, in case somebody was listening or

trying to tap your phones?

A. Yes, to avoid law enforcement.

Q. Did these juntas become actual criminal acts that


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were -- that happened, drugs, drug trafficking, for example?

A. Yes. They led to a lot of activities.

Q. And when you first got involved in drug trafficking

with the juntas, what type of drug were you able to obtain?

A. We started off with marijuana. Eventually moved on to

methamphetamines, cocaine and pills, ecstasy and whatnot.

Q. Those were all drugs that were distributed by you and

others in the Bay Area?

A. Yes, it was.

Q. And let's go, then, in 2004, and the late part of

2003, did you become acquainted with someone that you --

known to you as Mister?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. Do you know Mister's real name?

A. No, I do not.

Q. Do you know Mister by any other nicknames?

A. Bubba.

Q. Let's take a look at what's been received in evidence

as Government's Exhibit 6.

Is that the person you knew as Bubba or Mister?

A. Yes, it is.

Q. How did you become acquainted with Bubba or Mister?

A. I was introduced to him via Silk and G as an NF, a

Carnon, or a C, from Salinas regiment that was there to aid

and assist us in our development of regiment activities.


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Q. And when you described previously, now, the meetings,

the juntas that you were -- you were participating in, did

you meet Bubba or Mister before the juntas started?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. And were -- after the meeting with Bubba, is that kind

of what prompted the juntas to begin?

A. The juntas began before we met Mister. It was after

he became involved in the meetings that they felt more

organized, more official, more authenticated with his

presence, and he usually guided us in the meetings.

Q. And at the time when you became acquainted with Mister

through the introduction that Silk provided, were you,

yourself, an NF member?

A. No, I was not.

Q. Have you ever elevated to the status of an NF Carnon?

A. No, I have not.

Q. Were any of the other members in the group, other than

Mister or Bubba, were they NF members, the people you

identified, G, Silk, Shadow?

A. Not to my knowledge, no.

Q. Now, in terms of your own gang activity, in what city

did you grow up in?

A. In Richmond, California.

Q. And were you ever considered -- or did you ever

consider yourself a Norteno gang member?


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A. I did.

Q. What sort of specific clique did you belong to as a

Norteno?

A. Barrio San Pablo and North Side Locos. Two small

groups in Richmond and San Pablo area.

Q. How old were you when you got involved in the various

street gangs?

A. 12 years old.

Q. Did you obtain any tattoos that were representative of

the Norteno street gangs that you were a member of?

A. Yes.

MR. TEDMON: Objection, Your Honor, relevance.

THE COURT: Sustained.

Q. BY MR. HITT: Did you eventually become a member of a

different organization?

A. Yes.

Q. What group was that?

A. Nuestra Raza.

Q. That's Nuestra -- what's the last -- the second part?

A. Raza.

Q. R-A-Z-A?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. How is that different than the Norteno groups that you

were a member of?

A. It's a prison organization. It was a


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paramilitary-type organization that was very organized, and

it was through, you know, an oath that you took in prison. I

became involved with that.

Q. And as compared to Nuestra Familia, how does Nuestra

Raza relate?

MR. TEDMON: Objection, Your Honor, relevance.

THE COURT: Overruled. If he knows.

MR. BIGELOW: Your Honor, I wonder if we could have

him pull his microphone closer. Even Mr. Gable is having

difficulty.

THE COURT: All right. Make sure you speak into the

microphone.

The objection is overruled. How does Nuestra Raza

relate to Nuestra Familia, if he knows.

THE WITNESS: Nuestra Raza was a subgroup of the NF.

It was established to carry out activities of the NF because

members were unable to participate in certain activities on

the main lines in prison, most of them were locked down. It

was kind of the spawn, I guess you would say, the next

generation of the NF.

Q. BY MR. HITT: And in terms of your experience as a

Nuestra Raza member, did you have the same authority as an NF

Carnon or less?

A. I think it depended on the circumstances. In some

prisons, in some main lines, where there was no NF members,


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our authority was unchallenged, and you did have the

authority equal to an NF member. However, whenever in the

prisons there was a NF member, or at the direction of a NF

member, you're always subordinate.

Q. How about once you were functioning on the street?

For example, when you met Mister, did he outrank you as a

Nuestra Raza member?

A. Yes. We were all subordinate to Mister's authority.

Q. And in the context of the NF, were you familiar with

the term "soldado"?

A. Yes.

Q. What did you understand the term soldado to mean?

A. A soldier.

Q. As it relates to the NF, did you consider yourself a

soldier of the NF?

A. I considered myself a soldado at the disposal of the

NF, but not as an actual member of -- there was kind of --

you know, you could be a soldado and be a NF member, but you

can't be -- or you could be a NF member and a soldado, but

you can't be a soldado and an NF member at times. It was

really a rank, you know, that was assigned to you, I guess

you could say.

Q. You were -- you said at the disposal, essentially, as

a soldado, or as an associate of the NF, but not a member?

A. Yes.


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Q. Are you familiar with the term "familiano"?

A. Yes.

Q. What does that mean in the context of the NF?

A. That means you're an active member of the NF.

Q. And were you ever -- you were never a familiano?

A. No, I was not.

Q. Now, in the same time period, late 2003, early 2004,

did you come to meet someone known to you as Paqui?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. What were the circumstances of you meeting this person

named Paqui?

A. We went to Salinas to meet Paqui, and I was informed

that Paqui was, you know, the regiment commander for the

Salinas area, and subsequently all regiment activities

throughout California under the direct command of NF

leadership in Salinas, and that he was a Carnon, and, you

know, to respect him, and whatnot.

Q. When you were introduced, who introduced you initially

to Paqui?

A. We went down there as a group. It was me, Silk, G and

Shadow, and we went to Salinas and met them. So, I couldn't

say what individual was exactly that introduced, you know,

hey, V, this is Paqui, but we were all present, and I was

brought down there by that group and introduced to him.

Q. Did you ever learn Paqui's real name?


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A. I've heard it here and there, but I can't recall

exactly what it is.

Q. Take a look at what's been received in evidence as

Government's Exhibit 1.

Is that the person you recognize as Paqui?

A. Yes, it is.

Q. Now, these meetings in Salinas --

THE COURT: For the record, that's a photo of whom?

MR. HITT: Mr. Amaro.

Q. BY MR. HITT: These meetings in Salinas, were there

more than one after you initially met Paqui at the Salinas

meeting?

A. Yes.

Q. About how many times would you say you were -- you

went to Salinas for meetings where Paqui was present?

A. Half a dozen or more.

Q. And were there -- the meetings held in different

locations?

A. Yes.

Q. What were some of the locations you recall where the

meetings were held?

A. Different houses. Mister took us to one house,

another time we went with Gallo to another house, G took us

to various houses, small apartments.

Q. These were residential locations within the city of


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Salinas?

A. Yes, they were.

Q. And the locations varied?

A. Yes.

Q. And when you -- and in your answer you mentioned the

name Mister, that's the person we saw who you also knew as

Bubba in Government's Exhibit 6?

A. Yes.

Q. And you used the term Gallo. Take a look at what's

been received in evidence as Government's Exhibit 5.

Is that the person you knew as Gallo?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you know Mr. Gallo's real name?

A. Mario Diaz.

Q. And so that was someone you became acquainted with as

time went on in 2004?

A. Yes.

Q. Now, going back to these meetings in Salinas, let's

start with the initial meeting. Were you questioned by Paqui

about your own background or status when you initially

arrived at the meeting?

A. Yes.

Q. What sort of questions were put to you by Mr. Amaro or

Paqui?

A. I was debriefed, asked to debrief prison history, and


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my associations, and also my intent within the organization,

how I thought I might participate, what resources I had.

And a lot of it was -- a lot of questions about the

penn, because I had recently paroled from Pelican Bay SHU.

There was quite a few questions about who was there, what was

going on, questions about information about the organization

behind the walls, whatnot.

Q. And did you provide responsive answers to Paqui during

those question-answer sessions?

A. I did.

Q. In addition to the group you had arrived with, G,

Shadow, Silk, were there any people of authority aside from

Paqui who were present at this initial meeting; if you

recall?

A. Mister.

Q. That's Bubba?

A. Yes.

Q. Now, how were -- were each of the meetings similar in

how they were conducted and the topics discussed?

A. Yes. Generally so.

Q. Can you describe for the jury, how did the meetings

proceed?

A. Well, we would come together, and typically there

would be a table in the room, everybody would be asked to

take their cell phones out, turn them off, put them on the


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table, remove any electronic devices. And kind of as a act

of camaraderie, we'd go around and ask how each other were

doing, how we felt. And then we'd proceed. Somebody in the

crew would proceed to lead us into a conversation about what

we were doing at that point with our resources, what

resources we had available in our community, and how we might

pool those resources to work more effectively for the

organization.

Q. And when you say "resources," were there specific

discussions during these meetings about criminal activities?

A. Yes. We would plan robberies. If somebody had

information on a known drug seller, big drug seller, or

somebody that, you know, happened to have a lot of marijuana

or guns, and how we might acquire those by force, you know,

from them, and what resources we would need to accomplish

that. As well as what the potential we had each for, you

know, distributing drugs in our areas, and how much we might

need from them, and what resources we might need in

distributing those or, you know, handling everything.

Q. So, in addition to the targets for possible -- targets

of opportunity, I suppose, you would also discuss the

potential for drug trafficking activity in the particular

area where you were staying at that time?

A. Yes.

Q. And from your perspective, what area did you represent


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when you were engaging in these meetings in Salinas with

Paqui?

A. I was assigned originally through Silk, who informed

me that it was decided by Paqui before I was introduced to

him, and eventually confirmed by Paqui, that I would be

assigned as the regiment commander for the East Bay area.

Q. And what was your understanding of what your role as

regiment commander would require you to do for the East Bay

area?

A. To organize Nortenos and Norteno associates in the

areas from Solano County to San Leandro, and pulling the

manpower together, finding the hermanos or NR members, NF

members, and other Norteno street associates that were

willing to cooperate with us, to participate, and finding out

what was available, what kind of drugs were available, what

kind of prices were available, what kind of artillery was

available, safe houses.

It was -- it was a lot of responsibilities involved

that I had to do in getting out there and trying to pull

everybody together and unionize the gangs, I guess you could

say, in various areas to pool their resources for a bigger

goal.

Q. And when you were having these discussions in the

meetings, were the topics that you've just described, the

sort of responsibilities expected of you, were those part of


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the topics that you discussed with Paqui and the others?

A. Yes. That was -- we were -- all of us were -- were

made to -- to verbalize our understanding of our

responsibilities in order to ensure that we knew them. So,

it wasn't assumed that you knew what your responsibilities

were. It wasn't taken for granted that you assumed what to

do and how to do it. You had to tell the group what it is

exactly you had to do, and how you plan on going about it,

and in order to reassure them that you were capable of

fulfilling your duties and responsibilities in that position.

Q. Now, in addition to you having the regiment commander

label for the East Bay area, did other members of the group

that you were present with have responsibilities for other

regiments?

A. Yes.

Q. And who had -- what were the other regiments

represented during these meetings that you would attend in

Salinas?

A. There was a Salinas regiment which was present with

Paqui and Mister. And San Francisco, which was under the

direct authority of Silk. And G worked hand in hand with

them and Shadow.

I was the only NR member, or NF associate, in the East

Bay at that time, and so I was told to work hand in hand with

them in order that they may assist us in becoming more self


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sufficient in that area, and controlling operations without

need of external assistance. And the reason for doing that

was for security, so that each regiment can function

independently, so if one failed, they couldn't tell on the

other one's operations.

Q. And when you indicate that your authority for -- as a

regiment commander for the East Bay included the various

areas you identified, did you consider yourself having

authority over Alameda County, the city of Oakland, or that

particular part of the Bay Area?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. And once you were designated with these -- this

authority, and began to function as a regiment commander, did

drug trafficking figure into the activities that you oversaw

in the East Bay regiment --

A. Yes.

Q. -- for the NF?

Yes?

A. Yes.

Q. And if you can explain, then, how could you have

authority as a regiment commander if you were not a Nuestra

Familia member?

A. There was a lack of manpower. Subject to the lack of

manpower in that area. There was a wealth of resources,

black market resources available in the East Bay, and many


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pockets of Norteno groups in various communities that were

not being organized, and the resources were not being

exploited for the general NF welfare. And so, in the absence

of members being in that area, I was designated the

authority.

Q. So, you could function as a regiment commander on

behalf of the NF and not be a member of the NF?

A. Yes.

Q. And was it your understanding that is permitted by the

terms of the constitution?

A. Yes, it is.

Q. And by "constitution" I don't mean the United States

Constitution, the NF constitution.

A. Yes.

Q. And you were familiar with that in your training at

the Pelican Bay SHU?

A. Yes. I was trained in the NF constitution and the NR

thoroughly.

Q. Now, during the Salinas meetings, were there moments

within the meeting where sidebars occurred where you were not

a participant in certain conversations?

A. Yeah. It was generally Paqui or Mister would pull

each of us to the side and have a sidebar conversation. And

sometimes you could tell by the demeanor and the gestures of

the people talking the seriousness of it. And in order, I


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guess, probably not to feel left out, sometimes he would just

pull you on the side and give you a pat on the back, tell you

you're doing a good job, you know, how to handle things more

effectively, and try to give you insight on what to expect in

the future.

Q. During the meetings that you attended, were there

discussions about who -- or where portions of the drug

proceeds that you earned as a regiment commander in the East

Bay were supposed to go?

A. Yes.

Q. And what sort of discussions did you have about where

drug proceeds from the regiment that you oversaw, where were

they supposed to go?

A. We were to tax ten percent of all profits and afford

them to Salinas regiment to aid the general NF establishment,

you know, and I guess where they deemed fit that money should

be served.

And also, at the same time, to set aside an extra ten

percent to build up your regiment's bank, you know, your pool

of resources to make sure that you guys had a bank and money

set up for, you know, regiment necessities.

Q. And as a regiment commander, were you expected to

eventually have a self sufficient East Bay regiment for the

NF?

A. Yes. That was the goal, was to establish a East Bay


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self sufficient regiment that would not need the assistance

of other regiments, especially with the supplying of drugs

and weapons and manpower, which we were in short supply of at

the time.

Q. As a result of these meetings and conversations that

you had with Paqui and Mister and the others, did you

essentially agree to commit crimes on behalf of the NF

starting in 2004?

A. I did.

Q. And did you continue to commit crimes on behalf of the

NF until approximately mid 2006 or so?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. Between that same time period, 2004 to 2006, did you

contribute drug money from the East Bay regiment to the

Salinas NF regiment?

A. I did.

Q. Now, we had talked a little bit early on that the

initial drugs that you were able to distribute in the Bay

Area were marijuana. What quantities of marijuana were you

distributing in 2004?

A. Pounds.

Q. What price -- generally, what was the price range for

the pounds you were obtaining in 2004 of marijuana?

A. 1500 to $3,000, depending on the quality of the

marijuana.


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Q. And how much could you make in selling those pounds of

marijuana?

A. 1,000 to $2,000 profit per pound.

Q. And where were you distributing the pounds that you

were receiving of marijuana?

A. Throughout the whole Bay Area, pretty much, as far as

Vegas and up north to Sacramento.

Q. Were there specific cities within the Bay Area that

you were regularly distributing pounds of marijuana in 2004?

A. It was the San Ramon, Dublin, Pleasant Hill area.

Also San Francisco, Oakland, and those areas in general.

Q. This marijuana, was it a higher quality marijuana that

you -- that fetched the higher price at that time?

A. Yes.

Q. Where were you being supplied this marijuana from?

A. The first, I think, ten to 20 pounds we received was

through a robbery that we coordinated with San Francisco

regiment to rob a weed supplier, a grower, of his marijuana.

And we used that marijuana and -- we sold it and used that

money to purchase more marijuana from a cartel guy by the

name of Julian.

Q. Where was Julian located?

A. In Stockton.

Q. And this marijuana robbery, about how many pounds did

you say the group cleared from that robbery?


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A. About 12 to 20 pounds.

Q. That was essentially free marijuana to get going?

A. Yes.

Q. Get the bank going.

Did there -- did you make contributions to the Salinas

regiment from proceeds obtained from this robbery?

A. Yes, we did. It was actually quite a debate with Silk

over how much of a contribution we should make. We had

already been informed that ten percent should go. Silk was

requesting that each one of us pay ten percent because we

were from different regiments, and we were under the

assumption that we would just -- it would be ten percent of

the whole robbery that would go, but rather we were all each

individually asked to pay ten percent.

Q. Do you remember approximately what your cut of the

profit from the robbery was?

A. Upwards of $30,000.

Q. Did you, in fact, contribute a ten percent chunk of --

THE COURT: Are you asking about his personal profit

or the East Bay profit?

MR. HITT: I can ask both.

THE COURT: I don't know what you were asking.

MR. HITT: That's a good point.

THE WITNESS: They were actually one in the same at

the time. I was the only manpower in the East Bay at the


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time.

Q. BY MR. HITT: So, you were a regiment of one at that

point?

A. Exactly.

Q. So, your profit was the same as the East Bay regiment

profit?

A. Exactly.

Q. Did you, in fact, contribute ten percent of the 30 or

so thousand to the Salinas regiment from that?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. And Julian -- once that connection with Julian was

made in the Stockton area, was he someone that you regularly

obtained pound level -- pound quantities of marijuana from?

A. Yes.

Q. And about how much would you get at a time from

Julian, what quantities of drugs, marijuana?

A. No less than ten pounds, probably no more than 25.

Q. And how regularly would you be resupplied with

marijuana from Julian?

A. Almost every week for a while.

Q. This is in the 2004 time frame?

A. The end of 2003, the beginning of 2004, yes.

Q. Now, at some point, I think you mentioned this in your

earlier answer, did you progress to being supplied with drugs

other than marijuana?


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A. Yes.

Q. How did -- well, let's start with what other drugs?

A. Methamphetamines, crystal methamphetamines and cocaine

were being given to us. Originally it was Silk and G and

Shadow who were getting the drugs from Salinas regiment, and

they were ordered to share some of that with me in order to

start building up regiment resources in the East Bay. And

they shared a small portion with me of those first pounds and

kilos that were received, which I distributed to some Norteno

street members to start making a profit and organizing lower

level manpower.

Q. Going back just a minute on the pounds of marijuana

coming in from Julian, were you -- the 10 to 25 pounds or so

that would come in on a weekly basis or so, were those being

shared with the San Francisco regiment?

A. Yeah. They were taking most of the weed.

Q. And you would take a portion that you could move in

the East Bay area?

A. Yes.

Q. And then you said that the Salinas regiment at some

point began supplying San Francisco regiment with pound

quantities of methamphetamine and kilo quantities of cocaine?

A. Yes.

Q. Who was the conduit or contact person from Salinas

regiment for the drugs that were coming into San Francisco?


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A. That would be Mister.

Q. And that -- if we can see Exhibit 6, again, that's

Bubba, or Mister as you knew him?

A. Yes.

Q. And in the early part of Salinas regiment supplying

the Bay Area, how often were cocaine and methamphetamine

being brought up by Mister?

A. I believe in the beginning it was maybe once a week.

Shortly after that it moved up to every couple days maybe.

Q. And how much were coming up in the early part of this

cocaine and methamphetamine trafficking?

A. I think we started with maybe two pounds of crystal

and two kilos of coke, from which I was given a couple ounces

of each to put out on the streets to check the quality and

determine the prices in the East Bay. Once we determined a

favorable price, then we could undercut the market in those

areas, then the quantities increased.

Q. And what -- how long did Salinas regiment continue to

supply San Francisco regiment while you were functioning as a

regiment commander for the East Bay?

A. As far as I know, up until 2007 when I had my last

contacts with NF members in that area.

Q. And at some point did the quantity -- you said the

quantities increased, the amount of drugs coming in from the

Salinas regiment?


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A. Yes.

Q. From the drugs that were being brought into the

San Francisco regiment, and the portions that you were being

given, during the time period of, say, 2004 to 2007, what was

the most that was earned by the San Francisco Richmond

regiments in a -- say in a monthly time period from drug

trafficking?

THE COURT: San Francisco Richmond regiment?

MR. HITT: I'm sorry, East Bay.

Q. BY MR. HITT: Let me ask you this: The San Francisco,

East Bay or Richmond area, were you considered, essentially,

one large regiment?

A. Um, yeah. Essentially, we were. We worked hand in

hand. I was always considered somewhat of a San Francisco

native as I had a lot of history there. Salinas is really

the only ones that made a distinction between the two.

We -- me and San Francisco, we kind of operated hand

in hand. You know, we ran around together daily, on a daily

basis. So they were two technically distinct regiments,

however we -- we pooled our resources and spent so much time

together they were essentially one in the same. At times you

couldn't tell, unless you were part of them, that there was a

distinction.

Q. And I -- what the Court was pointing out, I slipped

into saying Richmond regiment rather than East Bay --


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THE COURT: No. What I was actually questioning was

whether you were lumping San Francisco and Richmond slash

East Bay together, and I think he's explained.

MR. HITT: I was trying to say, basically,

San Francisco East Bay, are all the same, San Francisco

Richmond is all the same, basically.

THE WITNESS: Well, Richmond -- I guess you could say

because I was in Richmond, that was the capital of the East

Bay regiment, you could say.

Q. BY MR. HITT: And once -- once things had increased in

terms of the quantities of methamphetamine and cocaine being

supplied by the Salinas regiment, what was the best --

highest volume of money that was being made during that 2004

to 2006 time frame?

A. I think we reached about half a million dollars a

month.

Q. And when you say "half a million," was that -- that

wasn't after costs, was that just total amount of money

coming in?

A. Yeah. That was the total amount of money, the money

we owed for drugs and including our profits.

Q. And after paying back -- and the drugs were being

received on a front or a credit from Salinas regiment?

A. Yes.

Q. After paying back what was owed on the -- to Salinas


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regiment for the drugs, do you recall about how much profit

was left in this time period where half a million or so was

coming in a month?

A. Upwards of a hundred thousand, $150,000 profit.

Q. And is that profit for -- considering both

San Francisco and East Bay regiments as a -- together?

A. No. It was -- it was different. At one point --

sometimes one month San Francisco might move a lot more than

Richmond would. Sometimes -- and for the most times,

Richmond became moving more -- a lot more drugs than

San Francisco would. So I generated and kept most of the

profit.

THE COURT: I don't want to keep interrupting here,

but I want to make sure that you're asking about the same

thing that he's answering. When he said 500,000 per month

sales, was he talking about San Francisco and the East Bay

together? And when he talked about the profit of a hundred

thousand to $150,000 a month, was he talking about just one,

or both San Francisco and East Bay together?

MR. HITT: That's a good point.

THE COURT: You might want to clarify that.

MR. HITT: I will try to do that.

Q. BY MR. HITT: You heard the Court's question, so let

me see if I can ask it in a more artful way.

The figure of 500,000 in a month, does that represent


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both San Francisco and East Bay together, or is that just for

one regiment?

A. That represents us both together. The way it operated

was San Francisco was the one that took delivery of the

drugs, and then they came to me from there.

Eventually, after some time, when Mister was out of

the picture and Gallo came into the picture, then I started

to take a more hands-on with it, and established safe houses

in the East Bay where deliveries from Salinas were being made

regularly.

Q. So, whether it was you taking delivery directly at a

later time period, or in the early part where Mister is

delivering it to San Francisco, the figure that you're using,

that represents both regiments together, the 500,000?

A. Yes, because we would -- we would pay and receive as

one. So if they brought us, you know, 30 or 40 pounds of

methamphetamines, or however many kilos of coke, it was up to

us to decide how that was, you know, divided.

Q. And when the payments were made to Salinas regiment,

would that be paid as a -- both regiments would give the

payments, or did you have individual -- like, you had to pay

for East Bay and San Francisco had to pay separately?

A. Originally we started off where San Francisco -- I

would forward my taxes or dues to San Francisco and they

would send it down to Salinas. The same with the money that


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we made from the drugs. Eventually, once I started to move

more drugs, then I became more personally involved in

handling that aspect.

Q. So it would change over time, basically?

A. Yes.

Q. And out of the -- sticking with the 500,000 that was

earned in sort of the top or the best month, from that you

said there was a profit of about 150,000 left over?

A. Yes.

Q. That's profit that essentially represented both

San Francisco and East Bay regiments together?

A. Yes.

Q. And what percentage -- was there a percentage of that

150 or so thousand dollars profit paid as a contribution to

the Salinas regiment?

A. Yes. At one time my ten percent would -- and for

quite a few months I was paying 10 to $15,000 in dues to

Salinas.

Q. How did you get the money to Salinas regiment when you

were paying these contributions?

A. Originally I would give it to G, and G would handle

transportation between Salinas. At the time I was still on

parole, and I believe G and Shadow had already gotten off

parole so it was less of a risk for them to be involved in

the transactions, and so I would give everything to them and


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they would handle it.

Later on, as I started moving the East Bay regiment

towards more self sufficiency, and started, you know,

acquiring more manpower and resources, I was able to delegate

those responsibilities to other people.

Q. And you had -- did you have people that, essentially,

were working underneath you after a time?

A. Yes.

Q. And you would instruct them to deliver the money to

the Salinas area?

A. Yes.

Q. Who was it that were your point of contacts for

delivery of the money where you were instructing others to

take it to?

A. There was Jermaine Valencia, Chuy, Anthony Mayestas,

several other guys in the regiment.

Q. Those were people functioning underneath you at that

time?

A. Yes. Guys that were functioning underneath my command

in the East Bay Richmond regiment.

Q. Who was it on the Salinas end that you would instruct

these individuals to take the contributions to?

A. In the beginning it was Mister, sometimes, and they

would meet him sometimes in the city or halfway. And then

after Mister left it was Gallo. And eventually there was --


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under Gallo's authority there was other guys, one of them by

the name of Gangster, who they met quite often.

Q. By Gallo you mean Mario Diaz?

A. Yes.

Q. And Mister is a person also known as Bubba?

A. Yes.

Q. When you were engaged in drug trafficking during this

2004 to 2006 time frame, did you discuss drug deals over cell

phones?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you use coded language to discuss the drug deals?

A. Yes, we did.

Q. Did you have a particular code that was used

throughout the two or so years that you were actually

involved in this?

A. Yeah. We were assigned a code. The term AT&T was

used to refer to kilos of cocaine. And Metros were referred

to as pounds of methamphetamines. Accessories were smaller

amounts of cocaine or Metros. And also, later on, the

terminology was changed to burritos and tacos. Burritos

representing whole pounds or kilos, and tacos representing

ounces.

Q. And were these easily understood by other members of

the, say, San Francisco regiment if you were discussing drugs

over the phone?


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A. Yeah. We -- I -- I think I've used those terminology

with everybody in all the regiments.

Q. The same with Salinas?

A. Yes.

Q. And at some point in 2004, did you come to meet a

person named Michael Martinez?

A. Yes.

Q. And did he have a nickname?

A. Lentes.

Q. Do you know what lentes means in Spanish?

A. Lenses.

Q. Lenses?

A. Yeah. Glass lenses.

Q. And who was Mr. Martinez? Where was he based when you

met him?

A. I originally met Mike in Pelican Bay SHU. And he was

in Sacramento -- released to custody in Sacramento when we

became reacquainted.

Q. And when you met up with Mr. Martinez, did you have

discussions with him about drug trafficking?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. And where was it where you had your first, sort of,

sit down or discussion with Mr. Martinez about the drug

trade?

A. I met with Mike, I drove up to Sacramento to meet with


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him, and to help him make some contacts with Salinas. And

soon after that he took a trip with us to Salinas to

establish contact with the regiment there.

Q. And did you accompany Mr. Martinez to the Salinas

area?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. And did you introduce Mr. Martinez to anybody?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. Who did you introduce Mr. Martinez to?

A. Paqui and Mister.

Q. So, at that time those were the two representatives

from Salinas regiment?

A. Yes.

Q. And why did you take Mr. Martinez to meet Paqui and

Mister?

A. That was what I was instructed to do as part of the

obligations of working with manpower.

Q. And by "manpower," what does that term mean?

A. Members of the organization.

Q. And did you have an eye on Mr. Martinez as someone

that potentially you could work with and have an additional

drug trafficking relationship with in the Sacramento area?

A. Yes, I did. I had a long personal relationship with

him. We spent several years together in the SHU, and I

figured he was a fairly intelligent person that could do well


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with finances on the streets and, you know, might prove a

valuable asset for the organization.

Q. And did Mr. Martinez eventually put you in contact

with an important -- what would turn out to be an important

drug supplier for you?

A. Yes, he did.

Q. Who was that?

A. That was Cuauhtemoc, or Themo for short. Themo was

with the cartel from Jalisco, or Yahualica, a city in

Jalisco, that was moving massive quantities of drugs into the

state.

Q. And Themo, that is the short name, would be T-E-M-O?

A. T-H-E-M-O.

Q. Where was Themo based when you were introduced to him?

A. He was also in Contra Costa County.

Q. And Mr. Martinez was the person that facilitated that

introduction?

A. Yes, he did.

Q. And once you met Themo, did he become someone that

regularly supplied you with large quantities of

methamphetamine?

A. Yes.

Q. Now, at some point after meeting Mr. Martinez,

introducing him to Paqui and Mister and meeting Themo, did

something happen to Mr. Martinez to take him off the radar,


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so to speak?

A. Yeah. Shortly after meeting with Themo, it was my

understanding that he was arrested with a weapon, walking

into a house that was being raided, or maybe there was a

search going on. I'm not sure about the details. But I

remember being told that he was in custody for a weapons

charge and drugs charge.

Q. And that was while he was -- Mr. Martinez was in

Sacramento?

A. Yes.

Q. Was Mr. Martinez an NF member, as far as you know?

A. No.

Q. And once Mr. Martinez had been arrested, did you then

make acquaintance with a significant drug customer in the

Sacramento area?

A. Yes. Shortly after that, somebody I met while with

him visiting in the Sacramento area by the name of Sammy

Perez contacted me.

Q. All right. And why did Mr. Perez get in touch with

you?

A. He was trying to reconnect with the cartel, the Themo

cartel and the Yahualica cartel, to get some more drugs up to

the area.

Q. Did Sammy Perez indicate where he was based?

A. Yes. Sacramento.


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Q. And I take it that he was familiar with Themo from

having dealt with Mr. Martinez?

A. Yes.

Q. And once Mr. Martinez was in on his case, you became

sort of the connection for Perez to Themo?

A. Well, I actually informed Sammy that Themo was

unavailable, but we had other resources available to supply

what they needed, and kind of middle-manned deals between the

cartels in Sacramento.

Q. And did you, in fact, distribute methamphetamine to

Sammy Perez in the Sacramento area?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. How long -- when did you start? What year was it when

you started sending methamphetamine to Sammy?

A. 2004, when I began sending methamphetamines to Sam.

Q. Was it also 2004 when I guess -- before you met Sammy,

and you introduced Mr. Martinez to Paqui and Mister, that was

2004?

A. Yes.

Q. And when you made the acquaintance of Themo, that was

2004?

A. Yes.

Q. And how long did the relationship where you were

distributing drugs to Sammy last?

A. Up until about 2007. Early, January 2007.


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Q. Was it a fairly regular supply of drugs that you were

providing to Sammy?

A. There would be months at a time where it was regular,

and then sometimes he would find it for a cheaper price

somewhere else. And, you know, of course we would barter

with our cartels to try to lower the prices because we were

loosing, you know, customers and market, and try to get him

to come back to us. And usually we got him to come back to

us.

Q. And when you made the connection with Themo, were you

also still receiving drugs from the Salinas regiment?

A. Yes.

Q. And why were you doing that?

A. To keep favor with them. And also, you know, to show

that I -- you know, we were -- that we were effective in the

organization, that we were competent, so that we wouldn't be

replaced. Or also I didn't want it to happen -- I kind of

felt if I didn't get stuff from them, and they found out that

we were making money, you know, without contributing to them,

that something, you know, could happen to us.

Q. And Themo basically could have filled all the orders

that you had for drugs, is that it?

A. He could -- they could have filled everybody's order.

Q. But you still would receive drugs from the Salinas

regiment to stay in good graces, I take it?


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A. Yes.

Q. And was this the same arrangement that was fairly

consistent from '04 to the early part of 2007, where you

would be supplied by Themo and also receive drugs from the

Salinas regiment?

A. Yes.

Q. What quantities during this time period of

methamphetamine were you receiving from Themo?

A. I remember when it started he gave me one pound and a

couple days to move it. And it took us a few days to move

it. And I think within three months we were up to about 50

pounds. And within six months we were up to about a hundred

pounds a month.

Q. And how were you able to distribute all this

methamphetamine that was coming in through Themo?

A. We were sending it to Montana, to Billings, Montana,

to Las Vegas, and also throughout California with connections

that we had established.

Q. And was Sammy Perez one of the people that was the

recipient of the pounds that were coming in from Themo?

A. Yes.

Q. How much would Sammy get from you at a time?

A. Ten to 20 pounds. I think at one time he got 25

pounds from me.

Q. And how were you able to handle distributing all these


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drugs? Did you have people that were also taking drugs or

assisting you?

A. Yeah. We had -- I had a -- drivers, you know, some

females, some guys, some associates of the regiment that

would, you know, do the distribution for me, also involved in

some of the process of cutting the dope and housing it.

THE COURT: Do you want to take a break now?

MR. HITT: Sure.

THE COURT: We'll take a 15-minute recess, ladies and

gentlemen. Remember the admonition.

(Thereupon a recess was taken.)

THE COURT: Everyone is present.

You may continue, Mr. Hitt.

MR. HITT: Thank you, Your Honor.

Q. BY MR. HITT: Before the break, Mr. Treas, we were

discussing the drugs that were coming in from Themo and how

they were being distributed.

When the drugs were being sent, when you would have

individuals take the drugs to Sammy in Sacramento, did you

take precautions in instructing the drivers on how to take

the drugs to Sammy?

A. Yes. We took a lot of precautions.

Q. What sort of precautions did you take to transport

drugs to Sacramento to Sammy?

A. Give you an example, if that would work. I would have


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somebody without a criminal record, first of all, as my

driver, and usually in a rental car or a registered vehicle

with insurance, a clean vehicle that was inconspicuous, no

rims or tinted windows or anything. Also make sure the

vehicles were free of any smell of marijuana or alcohol or

other paraphernalia.

Generally I'd make sure that the drivers were dressed

well, not wearing baggy clothing or hats, especially, or

beanie caps while they were driving. Not have more than two

people in the car.

The drugs were usually stashed pretty well in an

available space in the car, or in a space that we made

available, a hidden compartment in the vehicle.

And we always had a second driver following that

vehicle to make sure that no police vehicles or law

enforcement could be following them or to pull them over. If

so, in that case, then the second vehicle was to run

interference, to cause an accident of some sort, so that the

first vehicle could get away.

And we also -- you know, there was -- if you didn't

use a blinker when you changed lanes, you lost a percentage

of your profit. If you made wrong turns or you got lost or

you sped, there were consequences.

Q. So this was all -- these were all rules that you

imposed on the individuals that were working for the East Bay


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regiment in delivering drugs?

A. Yeah. This was common protocol that I was taught by

the NF members, you know, in how to handle operations.

Q. And a little earlier we had discussed the person you

knew as Paqui, and we saw Exhibit 1. Do you see the person

you knew as Paqui here in court?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. Can you identify him by describing where he is located

and articles of his clothing.

A. He is to the right, behind you, with the glasses and

the blue shirt.

THE COURT: Record will reflect he's identified

Mr. Amaro.

Q. BY MR. HITT: Now, during the time between when you

began functioning in the East Bay regiment in 2004 and when

you sort of left it in the end of '06, early 2007, who did

you understand to be the overall authority for the NF drug

trafficking operations that you were engaged in?

A. That would be Paqui.

Q. And what about the person you knew as Mister, at some

point did he sort of go off the radar?

A. Yes.

Q. And do you know about what time, what year that was,

that Mister was no longer around?

A. I can't remember the date exactly. I would guess that


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it was in '05.

Q. And after Mister disappeared, did you come to meet

Gallo or Mario Diaz?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. And what was Mr. Diaz's role when you met him?

A. Diaz was basically taking over Mister's role in being

our channel to Salinas, our liaison of sorts in the regiment.

And Gallo was also taking on further responsibilities in

having direct contact with cartels, and I believe just

enhancing our -- you know, our transactions throughout the

area.

Q. Did you receive -- when you earlier answered before

the break that you would still receive drugs from the Salinas

regiment, was one of the persons that supplied you with drugs

from the Salinas regiment Mr. Diaz?

A. Yes, it was.

Q. And what quantities of drugs were you receiving from

the Salinas regiment between 2005 and 2007?

A. It could be anywhere from two pounds, when there was

not very much available, and maybe a kilo, upwards to maybe

40 pounds and 20 kilos when it was available.

Q. By pounds are you referring to methamphetamine?

A. Yes.

Q. Kilos you're referring to cocaine?

A. Yes.


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Q. And in approximately 2005, did Silk leave the Bay

Area?

A. Yes, he did.

Q. After he left -- well, at the time he left, did you

know where he was going?

A. No, I didn't.

Q. Was there an incident or a problem once Silk left the

Bay Area?

A. Yes. Silk, being the San Francisco regiment

commander, was responsible for the finances that go to

Salinas. It came to my knowledge that Silk had ran off, we

didn't have no clue as to why, with somewhere between the

range of maybe 25 and $50,000 of a debt that he owed.

Q. And as a result of this debt that's left by Silk, did

you have -- did you engage or participate in a meeting about

that topic?

A. Yes. We -- we were called together to, um -- it was

kind of a little bit of chaos at the time because we were

worried that the drugs might dry up, and also who was going

to take responsibility for the San Francisco regiment, at

which time we had a meeting at a billiards hall in

San Francisco.

Q. Who was present at this meeting in the San Francisco

pool hall?

A. That would be Paqui, myself, G, Shadow, Ray Romprey,


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Ray Ray, Champ, also known as, was another San Francisco

regiment operative. And I don't believe Basil was there. It

was us.

Q. And what was discussed during this meeting?

A. The discussion was responsibility for the debt, and

chain of command, succession of the chain of command, and who

would take over responsibilities for the San Francisco

regiment. It was decided with all of us in favor of G taking

over the San Francisco regiment.

A discussion then arose about how we would handle the

debt and Silk's circumstances. The question was asked, you

know, how do we want to deal with Silk. Paqui asked us, and

we was, like, well, what are our options. G responded, what

are our options? And we were kind of reluctant to want to

pay the debt. We were trying to figure out a way to resolve

the debt, and still get drugs in, and still be part of the

operations. At which point Paqui responded that the debt

could die with Silk.

Q. And what did you understand that to mean?

A. That if we kill Silk then the debt is forgiven. But

if we want to continue to operate and keep Silk in good

grace, we have to pay the debt.

Q. And what -- who was the debt owed to based on this --

the discussions during this meeting?

A. To the Salinas regiment.


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Q. And what was it owed for?

A. Drugs.

Q. Drugs that had been provided on credit?

A. Yes.

Q. And as a result of the meeting, you said that G was

placed in charge as the regiment commander for San Francisco?

A. Yes.

Q. And who had decided that? You said there was a group

consensus or a vote of some sort?

A. Yeah, it was a group consensus. Paqui assigned him,

and then he asked if we were all, you know, okay with that,

to which we all responded, yes, we were acceptable with that.

Q. And at the meeting you mentioned someone that you

referred to as Ray or Champ. If we could see Government's

Exhibit 26, please.

Is that the person that you knew as Champ?

A. Yes.

Q. And he was -- what was his role in the drug

trafficking operations?

A. I think he had recently been released, and he was just

starting to get involved in the San Francisco operations,

running around a lot with G in distribution.

MR. HITT: We can take that down, please.

Q. BY MR. HITT: Now, this meeting at the San Francisco

billiards hall with Paqui and the others, this was at some


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time in 2005, is that what you said?

A. Yes.

Q. And after this meeting, did -- was there a decision

made on whether to try and pay back the debt that Silk had

left?

A. Yes. We -- we all decided we didn't want to really

get involved in any violence at the time. We, you know,

didn't want to promote violence. I especially had a

philosophy that violence and drugs didn't mix, that one would

befall the other. And we were most concerned with profits

and keeping that money coming in. And at the time we

decided -- and also based on our personal likability of Silk,

that we didn't want to do nothing to him, and we'd be

responsible for repaying the debt.

Q. And did the debt, in fact, get repaid to the Salinas

regiment?

A. Yes, it was.

Q. Did you assist in making contributions to repay that

debt?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. Do you know, about how much did you put towards the

debt that Silk left?

A. Approximately 15,000.

Q. But ultimately it was cleared with Salinas?

A. Yes, it was.


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Q. And in the same time period -- actually, going back a

little bit, 2004 and moving forward, did you have discussions

about contributing money towards visits to Pelican Bay?

A. Yes. Early on, and we'd always -- always been taught,

especially in Pelican Bay, that the taxes and the dues were

to go towards, basically, the same needs that union members

would need to pay for, attorney costs, to pay for families,

you know, people who were out of work, and also kind of like

a venture fund, you know, to invest in other projects.

At one particular time, Paqui advised us that they

were going to charter a bus to send up to Pelican Bay so

families could go and visit up there, and asked that we make

a donation, to which I think I made about a $2500 donation.

Q. And that was to -- who were the -- who was the bus

going to take up to Pelican Bay?

A. Family members and loved ones of NF members that were

housed in the SHU.

Q. And you said you spent significant time at Pelican

Bay?

A. Yes.

Q. What city is Pelican Bay located in?

A. In Crescent City.

Q. While you were in Pelican Bay, did you come to know

somebody known as Conejo?

A. Yes, I did.


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Q. How did -- where was he housed?

A. We were both in the SHU.

Q. At Pelican Bay?

A. Yes, we were.

Q. And do you know Conejo's real name?

A. James Perez.

Q. Did you have communications with Mr. Perez, aka

Conejo, once you had been released from Pelican Bay?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. When you would correspond with Mr. Perez, would you

write to him at the Pelican Bay address in Crescent City?

A. P.O. Box 7500, Crescent City, California.

Q. Now, earlier in your direct we had talked about

whether your authority as regiment commander for the East Bay

included the city of Oakland and the county of Alameda. Do

you remember that discussion?

A. Yes.

Q. At some point after 2004, or in the 2004 time period,

did that arrangement change, where your authority for Oakland

or Alameda county was no longer assigned to you?

A. Yes. After not being able to really get anything jump

started out there because of lack of connections, I didn't

really have a lot of ties out there in the Norteno

communities, as much as I did in some of the African American

communities, I was informed that there was a Carnon that was


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taking over the Alameda county regiment by the name of

Powder.

Q. And who informed you that this person named Powder

would be taking over the Alameda county area regiment?

A. Originally I believe it was Mister and G that informed

me.

Q. And then -- all right. Let's take a look at what's

been received in evidence as Government's Exhibit 2.

Do you recognize the person in Government's Exhibit 2?

A. Yes.

Q. Who is that?

A. That would be Powder.

Q. And that's, for the record, a photograph of what's

been identified as defendant Ernest Paul Killinger.

Did you have face-to-face meetings with Powder in the

East Bay or the Oakland area?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. What were the nature of your meetings?

Let's start with, how many times would you say you met

with Powder?

A. Maybe a half a dozen to a dozen.

Q. And what time period are we talking about? What

years?

A. 2004 and 2005.

Q. Do you recall the first time you met Powder?


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A. Yes, I do.

Q. Where were you?

A. In a store that he owned.

Q. What type of store was it?

A. Metro PCS store.

Q. What city?

A. In Oakland.

Q. What was the nature of your first meeting at this

Metro PCS store in Oakland?

A. I was with G, and I think we either were dropping off

some dope, or picking up some money, one of the two, and I

was introduced to him. And we had a discussion about some of

his operations, and how the store was using some of the money

towards investing in some legitimate fronts.

Q. And this store, did you actually enter the cell phone

store and take a look around?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. What did it look like inside?

A. You walked in and there was some accessories along the

wall, some phones, typical Metro PCS store. And there was a

glass display counter, the register, a female working behind

it. Behind that, maybe about two or three feet behind that,

a door that went to the back where we went back and had

conversations. And it was kind of, you know, the back of a

store, you know, a lot of boxes and, you know, ladders and


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couple chairs.

Q. Take a look at what's been received in evidence as

Government's Exhibit 319.

Do you recognize this building as being the location

where you entered the cell phone store in Oakland to meet

with Powder?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. Take a look at 320. Do you recognize that to be the

storefront that you entered when you met with Powder in 2004?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. During the discussion at this initial meeting, you

mentioned you discussed investment in legitimate businesses.

Is that what you said?

A. Yes.

Q. As part of your training and functioning as an NF

regiment member, what was your understanding of the goals or

purpose as it relates to investing in legitimate businesses?

A. Well, the goal was eventually to establish legitimate

business ventures that could generate legitimate profits,

which could be traced back to the organization, and also to

kind of create a continuity of income and flow towards

members in the organization.

Q. Were you, yourself, as a functioning regiment member,

interested in trying to start your own business?

A. Yes, I was.


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Q. And was that part of your conversation with Powder,

about how he did it?

A. Yes. We were particularly interested in the Metro PCS

stores, because the L.A. market was about to open up to Metro

PCS, and we knew several other guys that were laundering

quite a bit of money through the stores in the Richmond

Oakland area, so we seen it as a way to invest some money and

make it legal, or washable, in our eyes and the L.A. market.

And he informed us a lot about the procedures and steps to

take in going about that.

Q. Did Powder have any details for you about sort of what

it would cost, kind of startup costs to get one of these cell

phone stores going if you were interested?

A. Yes. He told us it was about 15 to $20,000 to buy the

franchise rights to have an authorized dealership. And it

was very easy, if you had good credit, to apply for a small

business loan that would allow you to get some funding for,

you know, getting some of the materials.

He also told us about how Metro will give you a lot of

the accessories and cell phones on consignment, you know, to

the business. Also about checking the market for the right

location. There was a lot of insight he gave us about how to

go about opening.

Q. And your interest was then in trying to invest NF drug

money into a legitimate business such as a Metro PCS store?


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A. Yes.

Q. And in the half dozen or so times -- is that what you

said, how many times you'd been to the cell phone store to

meet with Powder?

A. Yes.

Q. On those occasions, what were the nature of your

visits to meet with Powder at the

Jason Treas testimony Nov 4, 2010 USA Eastern District

Documents

Transcript of Jason Treas testimony Nov 4, 2010 USA Eastern District