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A Solution to Global Warming: A Global Tax

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Neuromancer


I trust of you have hear of Global Warming. Global Warming has a strange pedigree with the Neo-Malthusian Theories of

the late 1960's and early 1970's which predicated a number of crisis scenarios for Humanity. Among those notable

scenarios were the Population Bomb, Mass Famine, Resource Depletion, Global Cooling and yes Global Warming in the mid

1980s. These scenarios spawned a number of dystopian movies, novels and sci-fi stories. What links up these scenarios

are a number ofcomputer models with World3 among them. These reports and computer simulations were commissioned

by the Club of Rome in the late 60's by way of tasking scientists to produce research that would be congruent with its World

Problematique Charter. What makes the Club of Rome even more intriguing is its membership composed of Europe's

Business and Political Elite, subsequent to the publication of this main report in the form of the book "Limits to Growth",

these doomsday scenarios passed into the main cultural imagination (Soylent Green among the most popular ones) and

into the Agenda of the New Left (Green Left). My government here in Australia as part of its Kyoto Protocol agenda on

Global Warming (Climate Change) has decided to pass a very onerous piece of legislation that will impose a tax on carbon

dioxide (CO2) emissions, which will tax the inputs to industry at large with the costs being conveyed to the ordinary users

of energy. The effects will bring untold hardship to Australian people they have not seen yet. The government has planned

to pass the ruinous legislation before it assembles in Copenhagen to negotiate Emissions Trading(see UN link*). So if your

government has spoken about Emissions Trading and Global Warming in the upcoming Copenhagen Meeting, it could take

the form of national broad based tax on energy inputs sending the price of food, fuel, oil and electricity up. Below is the

Climate Change Report (Chapter 16) written by Trilateral Commission member, government economist and adviser Ross

Garnaut, explaining the repercussions on the Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) on Australian Living Standards. Granted CO2

is the natural product of animal respiration.

In the Australian case, the Minister for Climate Change (Penny Wong) and the very Prime Minister have not been

forthcoming with the details of the ETS broad tax other than it is to prevent the alleged catastrophic effects of global

warming.

So Environmental Dystopia, a device for the global elite to loot the Middle Classes in the First World or a step in the

oring Dystopia - View topic - A Solution to Global Warming: A Glob... http://exploringdystopia.freeforums.org/a-solution-to-global-warm

0 4/26/2011Create PDF files without this message by purchasing novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
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formation of a fledging global government with the ability to re-distribute wealth or false dystopias that lead to a Global

Dystopia, which is it?

Addendum

Goldman Sachs/JBWere statement to the IFSA (Australia) on the need to pass the ETS legislation to create a carbon market

in credits and derivative instruments.

http://www.ifsa.com.au/documents/2007_1004_IFSA%20Future%20Leaders%20report%20Ben%20Hare.pdf

REFERENCES

The Garnaut Report on Climate Change: http://www.garnautreview.org.au/CA25734E0016A131/pages/draft-report

The Copenhagen Treaty (COP15) detailing in the 150+ pages the creation of a World Trading Market, a framework of globalgovernance and wealth redistribution

http://unfccc.int/resource/docs/2009/awglca7/eng/inf02.pdf

Club of Rome: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Club_of_rome

http://www.clubofrome.org/eng/home/

Limits to Growth:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limits_to_Growth

World Problematique: http://www.abc.net.au/science/slab/rome/rome.htm

World3 (scenario): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World3

World3 in more detail, the concept of Sustainable Development, Global Resource Management, Peak Oil, Population

Control and the necessity for a Central Body organising the allocation of these factors is discussed here. World3 is the

paradigm upon which Club of Rome's Limits to Growth is based on.

http://viswiki.com/en/World3

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/World3

Thomas Malthus and the concepts of geometric population growth versus gradual growth in resources, for the example first

used in Food Supply Growth: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Malthus

Neo-Malthusianism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Malthusianism Trilateral Commission (TC): http://www.trilateral.org/

Green Left (AU): http://www.greenleft.org.au/

Green Left agenda sample: http://www.greenleft.org.au/search.php?go=1&topic_id=3&hide=1

Socialist Alliance's Green Agenda:

http://www.socialist-alliance.org/page.php?page=674

Wiki ref on TC: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilateral_Commission

Copenhagen 2009 Conference:

http://www.erantis.com/events/denmark/copenhagen/climate-conference-2009/index.htm

Ross Garnaut: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Garnaut

Ross Garnaut's Climate Change Review: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Garnaut

Emissions Trading Scheme: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emissions_trading_scheme

CO2 : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CO2

Club of Rome on Climate Change and Energy Security

http://www.clubofrome.org/eng/meetings/vienna_2009/presentations/Peter.Johnston.Vienna.Apr09.pdf

Club of Rome and its Sustainable Development Agenda (Climate Change) in the European Union

http://www.clubofrome.at/events/2006/brussels/files/communication-2005-sd-review-3.pdf

Club of Rome's 2009 Vienna Meeting on Global Warming Action, this highlights the COP15 Summit, inclusive of its

underpinning World3 Computer Model which provides the basis of Sustainable Development and a form of Global

Administration of these resources.

http://www.clubofrome.org/eng/meetings/vienna_2009/presentations/Peter.Johnston.Vienna.Apr09.pdf

Attachments:

File comment: Before getting this, I thought there issue was wild extrapolation and unwarranted exaggeration, however once I got the book and checked

the reference, it left no doubt, the purpose, intention and goal is is bold black letters "Mankind is the enemy" they have confessed. "we are Mankind".


http://www.ifsa.com.au/documents/2007_1004_IFSA%20Future%20Leaders%20report%20Ben%20Hare.pdfhttp://www.garnautreview.org.au/CA25734E0016A131/pages/draft-reporthttp://unfccc.int/resource/docs/2009/awglca7/eng/inf02.pdfhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Club_of_romehttp://www.clubofrome.org/eng/home/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limits_to_Growthhttp://www.abc.net.au/science/slab/rome/rome.htmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World3http://viswiki.com/en/World3http://www.wordiq.com/definition/World3http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Malthusianismhttp://www.trilateral.org/http://www.greenleft.org.au/http://www.greenleft.org.au/search.php?go=1&topic_id=3&hide=1http://www.socialist-alliance.org/page.php?page=674http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilateral_Commissionhttp://www.erantis.com/events/denmark/copenhagen/climate-conference-2009/index.htmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Garnauthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Garnauthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emissions_trading_schemehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CO2http://www.clubofrome.org/eng/meetings/vienna_2009/presentations/Peter.Johnston.Vienna.Apr09.pdfhttp://www.clubofrome.at/events/2006/brussels/files/communication-2005-sd-review-3.pdfhttp://www.clubofrome.org/eng/meetings/vienna_2009/presentations/Peter.Johnston.Vienna.Apr09.pdfhttp://exploringdystopia.freeforums.org/a-solution-to-global-warming-a-g...http://www.novapdf.com/http://www.novapdf.com/http://www.novapdf.com/http://www.novapdf.com/http://www.novapdf.com/http://exploringdystopia.freeforums.org/a-solution-to-global-warming-a-g...http://www.clubofrome.org/eng/meetings/vienna_2009/presentations/Peter.Johnston.Vienna.Apr09.pdfhttp://www.clubofrome.at/events/2006/brussels/files/communication-2005-sd-review-3.pdfhttp://www.clubofrome.org/eng/meetings/vienna_2009/presentations/Peter.Johnston.Vienna.Apr09.pdfhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CO2http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emissions_trading_schemehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Garnauthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Garnauthttp://www.erantis.com/events/denmark/copenhagen/climate-conference-2009/index.htmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilateral_Commissionhttp://www.socialist-alliance.org/page.php?page=674http://www.greenleft.org.au/search.php?go=1&topic_id=3&hide=1http://www.greenleft.org.au/http://www.trilateral.org/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Malthusianismhttp://www.wordiq.com/definition/World3http://viswiki.com/en/World3http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World3http://www.abc.net.au/science/slab/rome/rome.htmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limits_to_Growthhttp://www.clubofrome.org/eng/home/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Club_of_romehttp://unfccc.int/resource/docs/2009/awglca7/eng/inf02.pdfhttp://www.garnautreview.org.au/CA25734E0016A131/pages/draft-reporthttp://www.ifsa.com.au/documents/2007_1004_IFSA%20Future%20Leaders%20report%20Ben%20Hare.pdf


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The Common Enemy of Humanity is Man The Club of Rome.jpg [ 88.58 KiB | Viewed 31 times ]

File comment: Chapter 16: Sharing the Burden - Ross Garnaut (Trilateral Commission), Climate Change Review.

Garnaut Climate Change Review - Final Report - Chapter 16.pdf[260.01 KiB]

Downloaded 2 times

Last edited by Neuromancer on Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:23 pm, edited 10 times in total.

Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:48 am

Nexus

Inner Party Leader

Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 11:12 pmPosts: 1869

Location: Airstrip North

Re: A Solution to Global Warmi ng: A Global Tax

An interesting proposition. I come to think of a somewhat related proposition: To introduce a Tobin Tax and use the

revenues for humanitarian aid. This was of course met with massive resistance from the economic establishment, although

the tax would be only 0.1-0.25 %. As always, greed is needed to build Dystopia...

_________________

"Life is a succession of here and now, here and now, unceasing concentration in the here and now. People who worry about the

future or the past don't understand that they are worrying about an illusion." -Taisen Deshimaru

WELCOME! Forum Policy BBCode Tutorial

Sun Oct 11, 2009 5:51 pm

Neuromancer

Re: A Solution to Global Warmi ng: A Global Tax

I remember The Tobin Tax, it was a rational tax reduce undue speculation during the terrible days of the Asian Currency

Meltdown.

The ETS tax and its associated government programs and supervisory global institution in the form of global carbon market

has the effect of taxing fossil fuels extensively used for electricity generation.

The costs will be transferred very quickly as is by our triumvirate cartel of retail, banking and oil directly to consumers

(known price gougers) to maintain their profitability. We have no credible debate in public discourse.

The more baffling proposition is in the Garnaut Climate Review final draft in Part 10 and 12, where as a part of the ETS the

government has to effect a financial and technological transfer to Less Developed Countries so they can finance their

membership in the Carbon Trading World Market. Call this Socialism if you may, I call it buying compliance with the Carbon

Trading Market which the Report anticipates to be very onerous on Third World Industrial Development and cost of living,

and be oppressive on their citizens just the same.




4/10

We don't even have nuclear power for electricity generation in this country and yet we are uranium exporters.

One of the biggest fallacies of global warming theory has that it is man-made, as a matter of fact global warming is part of

the inter-glacial warming process with CO2 . Diabolical Global Carbon Tax. Environmentalism has the very human hubris of

attributing it to Human Industrialisation to further its globalist institution-building agenda which comes to the fore in the

Report.

I heard the EU member countries have similar schemes operating however they are not yet linked up to regional carbon

trading market. If you take your time with the report you can see the Carbon Tax and Trading Regime seeks to link up with

the rest of the Kyoto/Copenhagen treaty-signing countries, so the EU, USA and the EU trading blocks will be brought into

this new Carbon Credit Trading Market.

The situation is very serious as you can see Nexus, this is a Dystopian Nightmare arising from a climate computer model

called World 3 and others. Pure wealth extraction in the true sense of the word.

This master plan may be coming to your Legislature very soon.

http://www.garnautreview.org.au/CA25734E0016A131/pages/draft-report

Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:11 pm

NexusInner Party Leader

Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 11:12 pm

Posts: 1869Location: Airstrip North

Re: A Solution to Global Warming: A Global Tax

Neuromancer wrote:

The situation is very serious as you can see Nexus, this is a Dystopian Nightmare arising from a climate computer

model called World 3 and others. Pure wealth extraction in the true sense of the word.

The question is, can anything be done to stop this environmental-hostile machinery? Or should countries not suffering from

myopia start taking measures to save themselves?

_________________




Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:31 pm

Neuromancer


Well can we switch energy sources like we can switch technologies? There are too many disparities across international

boundaries, it could radically affect the economic map with the existing energy resources are not distributed evenly namely

hydro, solar, oil and nuclear power.

Granted that we have 'Environmental Doom' as the 'Given' in making these decisions.

Otherwise, if the Eco-Doom Computers Models (contrary to empirical or observational science) are nothing more than a

form of Scientism (in the sense that Science is corrupted to serve a political agenda by a certain group/s), then it is a formof wealth transfer in the grandest scale, of course there is a merit in seeking to equalise gross economic disparities around

the world but the for the Developed Countries this means their standard of living for the low income groups will simply

move downwards. For the Middle Classes this means economic demotion to the lower ranks and with that political clout in

the decisions of government. The result a two-class society. This is Dystopian for Tyranny is the economically polarised

society abound.

Environmentalists at large could not be faulted for their precautionary protection of the environment, however if they are

relying on flawed if not predetermined results provided by simulated computer models in line with an existing charter and

agenda, what is not to say the results have been predetermined by the quality of its data entry?

Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:56 am





Neuromancer wrote:

Well can we switch energy sources like we can switch technologies? There are too many disparities across

international boundaries, it could radically affect the economic map with the existing energy resources are not

distributed evenly namely hydro, solar, oil and nuclear power.

This may pose a serious problem in the future, but not necessarily as serious as one might think. There are many kinds of

renewable energy sources which can be exploited, e.g. wind power, hydropower, tidal power, marine current power, ocean

thermal power, solar power, biomass power, geothermal power, and osmotic power. I assume most countries can utilise

and combine at least two or three of them. Some countries, such Singapore, would have to rely on energy import, but

that's the situation today already. Some countries will have to reconstruct their energy industries completely, such as the

USA (fossil fuel power: 71.4%, nuclear power: 20.7%!) and France (nuclear power: 74.5%!), but that's probably only for

the better.

There might be a period of energy shortage before renewable energy sources can be effectively exploited, though. Just like


http://www.garnautreview.org.au/CA25734E0016A131/pages/draft-reporthttp://exploringdystopia.freeforums.org/a-solution-to-global-warming-a-g...http://www.novapdf.com/http://www.novapdf.com/http://www.novapdf.com/http://www.novapdf.com/http://www.novapdf.com/http://exploringdystopia.freeforums.org/a-solution-to-global-warming-a-g...http://www.garnautreview.org.au/CA25734E0016A131/pages/draft-report


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you point out, the consequences might be dire and the situation might demand drastic measures and global co-operation. If

we're lucky, there will be a break-through in fushion power research in the near future, but we should perhaps not bet on

it.

Neuromancer wrote:

Granted that we have 'Environmental Doom' as the 'Given' in making these decisions.

Otherwise, if the Eco-Doom Computers Models (contrary to empirical or observational science) are nothing more

than a form of Scientism (in the sense that Science is corrupted to serve a political agenda by a certain group/s),

then it is a form of wealth transfer in the grandest scale, of course there is a merit in seeking to equalise gross

economic disparities around the world but the for the Developed Countries this means their standard of living for the

low income groups will simply move downwards. For the Middle Classes this means economic demotion to the lowerranks and with that political clout in the decisions of government. The result a two-class society. This is Dystopian for

Tyranny is the economically polarised society abound.

Even if there's not an energy crisis, I think we have to be prepared to lower our standard of living in developed countries.

Shortage of oil can become accute before we have found effective substitutes, and our global economy relies heavily on

transports.

Neuromancer wrote:

Environmentalists at large could not be faulted for their precautionary protection of the environment, however if

they are relying on flawed if not predetermined results provided by simulated computer models in line with an

existing charter and agenda, what is not to say the results have been predetermined by the quality of its data entry?

Perhaps. However, I reason like this: Even if there were indications that these estimates are doomsday scenarios, do we

really dare to take the risk that they aren't correct, considering the consequences? Furthermore, more eco-friendly

production and consumption will lead to positive results either way, most notably decreased pollution and increased

efficiency.

_________________




Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:20 pm

Neuromancer

Re: A Solution to Global Warming: A Global Tax called ETS

I think you are referring to the Precautionary Principle, however it can be used against any invention that has not yetarrived, given that any form of human activity is not free from absolute risk. Greenhouse Effect/Climate Change has not

fully yet proven that is not a natural occurrence of events between Glacial Periods or not related to sun activity cycles in

geological ages.

As for Future Generations, which one gets to use the final gram of a natural resource? (note Malthusianism here), it is

circular argument. Can you imagine the Precautionary Principle on the verge of the Industrial Revolution in England? It

would have changed Human History or perhaps continued the Theocratic Catholic State in Europe.

More crazy if you ask why our own government wants to angle the Third World vote, by passing the ETS before

Copenhagen, check section 17 of the draft Copenhagen Treaty, it says Less Developed Countries (LCDs) can claim

compensation for their ETS costs. This implies an unlimited claim over reparations arising from African Countries voting and

signing on Copenhagen 2009, which are bound to outnumber the Developed Countries, a treaty for which they stand to

gain handsomely if I may say so, not withstanding the 'idiosyncracies' of their own governments (corruption, graft and

murderous tyranny).

Quote:

17. [[Developed [and developing] countries] [Developed and developing country Parties] [AllParties] [shall] [should]:]

(a) Compensate for damage to the LDCs economy and also compensate for lost

opportunities, resources, lives, land and dignity, as many will become environmental

refugees*;

(b) Africa, in the context of environmental justice, should be equitably compensated for

environmental, social and economic losses arising from the implementation of response

measures.

As for the Carbon Trading System, bankers are already making preparations to dominate the licenses and permits at

auction (more of this later), wait for those Carbon Derivatives being peddled by Euro and American Bankers.

http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/un-fccc-copenhagen-2009.pdf


http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/un-fccc-copenhagen-2009.pdfhttp://exploringdystopia.freeforums.org/a-solution-to-global-warming-a-g...http://www.novapdf.com/http://www.novapdf.com/http://www.novapdf.com/http://www.novapdf.com/http://www.novapdf.com/http://exploringdystopia.freeforums.org/a-solution-to-global-warming-a-g...http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/un-fccc-copenhagen-2009.pdf


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* there is something to be said of millions of Africans who are going to be made willfully into environmental refugees, isn't

this unethical in our books, despite of the best intention of Carbon Tax/ETS Trading? Do Africans get a choice?

Attachments:

un-fccc-copenhagen-2009.pdf[1.97 MiB]Downloaded 2 times

Draft Copenhagen Treaty 2009.JPG [ 85.79 KiB | Viewed 32 times ]

Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:40 am



Posts: 1869



Indeed, I'm an advocate of the precautionary principle in this case. The stakes are simply to high for gambling. Besides, I

don't think it matters if the calculations are exaggerated, because there will be positive effects either way: less

unnecessary transports, more local production, less exploitation of non-renewable resources, less pollution, more effective

production, and so on and so forth. Why do you think Bush tried to protect the American steel industry with tarifs? It was

because American environmental regulations are looser, with less effective energy consumption and less effective

production as results.

As for the CTS, I really don't know what to think. On the one hand, it's a scam to allow the Western world to continue as

before, but on the other hand, it shows that even the politicial and industrial establishment recognizes the problem.

_________________




Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:16 pm

Neuromancer


The assumption is the Orthodox Truth is that there is a Global Warming Effect, what do you think keeps us from a Glacial

Age? I argue Precautionary Principle on curtailing Global Warming inducing another Ice Age.

I remember the old truism in computer programming :GIGO, and we are dealing with Computer Climate Models.Any way talking about the Ferengi Factor, what do you know about Carbon Trading and the relation with Goldman Sachs?

There is a big fight at the local level, with this sneaky piece of legislation called ETS. Senate's rejected once already, one

more and the parliament can be dissolved.

According to the ETS, a massive tax on energy can save the world, I wish I was Al Gore, for he's heavily invested on his

own Carbon Investment Bank.

Now that's sorted, have a look at this, seems the Dark Ages of Politicised Science has arrived, witchhunt the dissenters, but

then what's Democratic Centralism good for?

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,26291548-2702,00.html

"CSIRO bid to gag emissions trading scheme policy attack

Font Size:DecreaseIncreasePrint Page:Print

EXCLUSIVE: Nicola Berkovic | November 02, 2009

Article from: The Australian

THE nation's peak science agency has tried to gag the publication of a paper by one of its senior environmental economists

attacking the Rudd government's climate change policies.

The paper, by the CSIRO's Clive Spash, argues the Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme is an ineffective way to cut

emissions, and instead direct legislation or a tax on carbon is needed.

The paper was accepted for publication by the journal New Political Economy after being internationally peer-reviewed.

But Dr Spash told the Australia New Zealand Society for Ecological Economics conference that the CSIRO had since June

tried to block its publication.

In the paper, Dr Spash argues the economic theory underpinning emissions trading schemes is "far removed" from the

reality of permit markets. "While carbon trading and offset schemes seem set to spread, they so far appear ineffective in

terms of actually reducing GHGs (greenhouse gases)," he says. "Despite this apparent failure, ETS remain politically

popular amongst the industrialised polluters.


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"The public appearance is that action is being undertaken. The reality is that GHGs are increasing and society is avoiding

the need for substantive proposals to address the problem of behavioural and structural change."

Dr Spash said trading schemes did not efficiently allocate emission cuts because their design was manipulated by vested

interests. For example, in Australia, large polluters would be compensated with free permits while smaller, more

competitive firms would have to buy theirs at auction. The schemes were also flawed because: global warming was caused

by gases other than carbon; emissions were difficult to measure; carbon offsets bought from other countries were of

dubious value; and the schemes "crowded out" voluntary action by individuals. He concludes that more direct measures,

such as a carbon tax, regulations or new infrastructure would be simpler, more effective and less open to manipulation.

Dr Spash could not be contacted by The Australian.

However, his presentation to the ANZSEE conference in Darwin last Wednesday stated: "The CSIRO is currently maintaining

they have the right to ban the written version of this paper from publication by myself as a representative of the

organisation and by myself as a private citizen."

Dr Spash said CSIRO managers had written to the journal's editor demanding the paper not be published.

CSIRO spokesman Huw Morgan said the publication of Dr Spash's paper was an internal matter and was being reviewed by

the chief executive's office.

However, he said that under the agency's charter scientists were forbidden from commenting on matters of government or

opposition policy.

The CSIRO charter, introduced last year, was trumpeted by Science Minister Kim Carr as a way to guarantee freedom of

expression for scientists.

Senator Carr said he was seeking a briefing from the CSIRO.

Opposition science spokesman Eric Abetz accused the government of empty spin.

Julian Cribb, adjunct professor of science communication at the University of Technology, Sydney, said gagging scientists

deprived the public of scientific knowledge they had funded.

ANZSEE president Wendy Proctor said if Dr Spash's research questioned current orthodoxy, it should be made public to

inform debate."

Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:51 am





First, prohibiting scientific, theoretical research is never acceptable. We have had a similar case in Sweden, where research

on nuclera power was actively disencouraged in state financed research institutions, which border on thought crime

legislation.

That being said, I can only repeat what I've said before: Even if the calculations are exaggerated, the stakes are too high

for gambling, and complying will entail purely positive effects.

As for inducing a new ice age, I'm very sceptical. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this is the consensus among

scientists: The current global warming has not been created by mankind, but mankind amplifies and accelerates the

effects.

I checked out the Goldman Sachs/Carbon Trade connection, and I think I see what you are after now: Capitalists sponsor

global warming movements out of financial interests. It's an interesting connection and I think that there's some truth to it.

However, I think it's quite obvious that the lion's share of political-capitalist establishment fight the global warming

movements out of financial interests. The strongest evidence for this is of course the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld regime's

policies.

_________________

"Life is a succession of here and now, here and now, unceasing concentration in the here and now. People who worry about thefuture or the past don't understand that they are worrying about an illusion." -Taisen Deshimaru


Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:43 pm

Neuromancer

Goldman Sachs's and the Ferengi

Interestingly enough the former conservative Treasurer Peter Costello, just got hired by BKK Partners, a Goldman Sachs

subsidiary in Australia to work in their enterprise.

Figures that the Carbon Tax that makes the carbon price lucrative to these bankers by matching carbon debits and credits

coming from the OECD nations and the Less Developed Countries. Let the commissions and fees roll in in the trillion dollar

level for what amounts to a worthless gas otherwise.

As for the former Goldman Sachs partner; the present Leader of the Opposition Malcolm Turnbull has simply softened the

Emissions Trading Scheme that coaches the Carbon Tax among their ranks




8/10

This is corruption working at the political level for private lucre.

Goldman Sachs were the biggest beneficiaries of the Federal Reserve, chaired by ex-Goldman Sachs Chairman Ben

Bernanke.

Next step, derivatives and securities spun off on carbon price futures.

Till the Bubble Bursts Again...

http://www.smh.com.au/business/costello-joins-corporate-consultancy-20091104-hwrk.html

PS: There is something to be said about Scientific Orthodoxy that relies on Majority Vote, being wielded in World Politics by

the UN.

Please examine this article on Al Gore

http://energy.probeinternational.org/climate-change/the-deniers/enrons-other-secret

Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:49 am



Posts: 1869



Ah, I see what you are getting at now, Neuromancer! Yet another market for intangible commodities, i.e. yet another way

to earn money without actually producing anything. Good work, and thanks for sharing!

(BTW, you have a very enigmatic way of getting to the point, you know. )

_________________




Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:00 pm

Neuromancer


Scientific Consensus or Groupthink at work Nexus?

There are intuitive leaps, and yes it is confirmed Downunder that Goldman Sachs has with other Institutional investors put

about $500 billion into Green Industries and are biggest winners in passing the ETS Tax/Cap and Trade. A lucrative market

for derivatives and betting against the falling prices of their own securities as done by Goldman Sachs on subprime

securities. Strangely enough the same thing is operating with the rest of the OECD legislatures.

Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:17 am



Posts: 1869



Neuromancer wrote:

Scientific Consensus or Groupthink at work Nexus?

That's an interesting question. This is just another example of how great the distance between scientists and laymen have

become; science has become so complex that we can't evaluate it properly anymore.

Spontaneously, I'd say that it's probably a case of scientific consensus. Extreme weather has become more frequent, the

glaciers are melting (although the Antarctic could be disputed), and the levels of carbon dioxide and methane in the

atmosphere have risen (although exactly how much these gases contribute to global warming can be discussed). Even

during my own short life, I've seen how the weather has changed; white Christmases are rare in my country nowadays.

Again, my approach is pragmatic: the stakes are too high for gambling and the effects of complying will be postive. I've

beginning to think of one problem, though: developing countries. We can't expect them to comply if we don't help them.

Neuromancer wrote:

There are intuitive leaps, and yes it is confirmed Downunder that Goldman Sachs has with other Institutional

investors put about $500 billion into Green Industries and are biggest winners in passing the ETS Tax/Cap and Trade.

A lucrative market for derivatives and betting against the falling prices of their own securities as done by Goldman

Sachs on subprime securities. Strangely enough the same thing is operating with the rest of the OECD legislatures.

Well, you have certainly convinced me that trading with emission rights is a scam. I'm far from convinced that global

warming as such is a scam, though.


http://www.smh.com.au/business/costello-joins-corporate-consultancy-20091104-hwrk.htmlhttp://energy.probeinternational.org/climate-change/the-deniers/enrons-other-secrethttp://exploringdystopia.freeforums.org/a-solution-to-global-warming-a-g...http://www.novapdf.com/http://www.novapdf.com/http://www.novapdf.com/http://www.novapdf.com/http://www.novapdf.com/http://exploringdystopia.freeforums.org/a-solution-to-global-warming-a-g...http://energy.probeinternational.org/climate-change/the-deniers/enrons-other-secrethttp://www.smh.com.au/business/costello-joins-corporate-consultancy-20091104-hwrk.html


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_________________




Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:55 am

Neuromancer

Are you ready to trade i n Carbon Denominated Derivates?

Are you saying with the Precautionary Principle you are scared Nexus? This is a visceral response of mammalian survival

instinct feeding this fear.

What would it take to get over the Great Fear of Catastrophism and the meek acceptance of "Scientific Consensus" as a

Given.

For moment consider the possibility...the benefit of the doubt, that's a big one, remember the Hitlerian Principle of

Propaganda?

[now you have to do the rest, null hypothesis has it that there is nothing there]

Down Under we got many 'scientists' busted already on the take, even Tim Flannery a friend the COP15 Chair, even sells

the Govt his Green Tech (geothermal, however shoddy) and advices the government at the same time, now he got even a

sincure on advising on coastal flooding, exaggerations can make 'scientists'* very comfortable, then there is David Karoly.

What do we call this Nexus?

I forgot to mention, l enjoy Scary Movies a lot... so the Scare doesn't work on me, much less the material peddled by

Climate Profiteer Al Gore, its biggest beneficiary (1), factor in the UN's IPCC which is hired by the UN itself to produce

predictable report outcomes congruent with the UN's ideological supporters at home. Whatever happened to ScientificObjectivity and separation of funding and hiring of scientists? So the UN via the IPCC gets the reports it wants to further its

vested interest on the research. Now more suspect is the idea that the scientific consensus over rules testing, because

these scientists are in fact supporting a political line that will make a number of Finance Capitalists (2) very rich.

On another note; consider hitting the carbon reduction targets; hello Carbon Ration Cards, remember the 1984 Oceanian

Permanent War Economy?

The Enemy isn't Eastasia, it is CO2 on a long term war plan to hit those wondrous carbon reduction statistics with a

Centrally Planned Economy controlling consumption by individuals (Enforced Frugality).

Green Economy: The Artificial Scarci ty Economy?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1021983/Every-adult-Britain-forced-carry-carbon-ration-cards-say-MPs.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7HF-ANJLXk

Let's see where the Curiosity takes you, rather than an affirmation of the taken for granted Status Quo ideology

(Gramscian Hegemony).

HINT: read the COP15 Treaty

So like the Original Sin, the Precautionary Principle makes the Ideology water proof, wasn't it the Scientific Refutal and

Testing an integral part of the Empirical Method instead of asserting this almost religious concept? After all how else can

you test the Global Warming Theory for validity at all if not through Empirical Testing which the Precautionary Principle bars

Scientific Inquiry in through refutal testing? Trump Card the world is destroyed.

(1) http://winteryknight.wordpress.com/2009/11/04/climate-profiteer-al-gore-could-become-the-worlds-first-carbon-

billionaire/

(2) Investor Group on Climate Change

http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&q=cache:kR3ftS86UdkJ:www.iigcc.org/docs/PDF/Public

/IIGCCandIGCConBaliclimatechangenegotiations.pdf+%22IGCC%22+Goldman+Sachs+billions&hl=en&gl=au&

sig=AFQjCNF0lHwaOzdtF9sjlF-WgSBViw4CLQhttp://www.igcc.org.au

* Cheat note: it goes by the name of Scientism, the other one is called Catastrophism.

Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:17 am

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