Episode 45 of the DSMSports Podcast w/ Alex Kunawicz of Liverpool FC

Best Of... Liverpool FC's Alex KunawiczEpisode 45 of the Digital and Social Media Sports Podcast

Episode 45 of the Digital and Social Media Sports Podcast featured Alex Kunawicz, Head of Content for Liverpool Football Club of the English Premier League.

What follows are some snippets from the episode. Listen to the full podcast on iTunes, Stitcher, or at www.DSMSports.net

@njh287; DSMSports.net

http://www.DSMSports.net/


Alex on Periscope

“It's certainly something we're interested in as a club, but I don't think it is being used quite as much here as it in the States yet...It's a very interesting challenge for (media) companies that pay a lot of money for TV rights...It could well become a big issue for TV companies going forward.”



Alex's career path

Attended University of Leeds studying politics and did not do much sports journalism there → Considered a career in teaching and spent time in North America before returning to England to restart a career →

Through a friend of a friend's advice, he took a post-graduate course in journalism and gained a lot of unpaid work experience at press agencies, radio, and newspapers → After completing the course, which required 40+ hours of work per week, Alex got a job at a sports website (despite never having been on the Internet!) that covered F1 →



→ After a year with F1, in the midst of the “dot-com boom,” Alex got a job doing all the press at Preston Football Club, a smaller club pushing for a spot in the Premier League (and managed by David Moyes)

“We had free license. As a smaller club, you end up doing a little bit of anything... Live commentary and everything.”



On early days of team websites

“It was becoming a more effective way of communicating with fans. Message boards were still huge then. There was no real video on there. It was more written word or photo. The match day programme took precedence...In terms of monetizing, we we would do a column with our betting partners.”

After 9 months with Preston, Alex “got lucky” to get a job with BBC in London working the Match of the Day, Wimbledon, the Olympics, etc. working on research and scripts and live TV

→ Then moved to Sports News (which required less travel), while also starting a podcast “The Beautiful Game” (inspired by Ricky Gervais and Stephen Merchant), which got up to #3 in the world among sports podcasts



→ After working on the BBC Sport website and doing some freelance work on EPL, among other things, Alex took a job for a new newspaper, The National, in Abu Dhabi as Deputy Editor and Sports Content Editor, as well as helping launch the Abu Dhabi Media Company, which got EPL rights for the Middle East

→ For family reasons, he returned to England and got a job with BBC Sport, where he worked on BBC Sport's global content→ After 3 years there, he went after the job at Liverpool FC and became Head of Content, which he started in May 2014 after a rigorous interview process



Starting at LFC

“(The biggest change) had to do with the commercial aspect (of the football club)...I had a little bit of that (sponsor integration) at BBC Sport...but nothing like (that at Liverpool)...

“It's such an expanding market, an expanding club, that there are new challenges and something new to learn every day.”



On when digital and social took off

“I think it was probably when we were living in Abu Dhabi (in 2008). Twitter was niche then and now it's mainstream. Then something else new comes along and it's niche and then goes mainstream...BBC has always been relatively slow to innovate. It's the public's money, so it has to be sure...

When it came to embracing social, it was slower. Social wasn't a big part of (BBC)...Even when I took my role at Liverpool, to begin, that was only a Head of TV Content role. It has since developed into other things...”



On the emergence of digital and social media at Liverpool

“It was more personnel changes...I took on (web) responsibilities...I loved working at the BBC, but our frustration was they weren't embracing a lot of digital stuff (notes caveat with rules and goals they must navigate)...

I could see (digital) was the future...It's about the mediums that you're reaching people through that is more important than anything now.”



“(Liverpool) was looking for expansion. When you look at the number of people engaging with us socially. (Last year) we had 27 million and at the start of this year, it's almost 4 million...There was also a big emphasis on TV...We started charging for it, which was a massive change. We partner with Sky Sports...moving from SD to HD, changed our programming, and increased our staff...If you're going to start charging people for something, we had to deliver something people wanted to watch and (determine) how to integrate that TV programming with everything else we do.”

[Alex notes the challenge of balancing content across live TV, a pay mobile content app, trying not to cannibalize content, and promoting all content]



On premium content

“Certainly having a 24-7 bespoke channel is a massive (undertaking)...We can't show first team games live, but we still pre and post match, we show under 21s and the ladies...It's an incredible amount of work and then you have to factor in LFCTV Go (digital proposition)...

We have a show called the Thursday Night Show, a more informal chat show, and we'll do something more with (the guests) after, too...and we'll put that on the website. Cross promotion has gotten much better in terms of how we're promoting stuff and clips we're giving away free.”



On balancing free vs. premium content

“That's the big challenge...[Alex notes how much it has helped to full timers dedicated to social media now, too] We were hardly putting anything on Facebook a year ago...in terms of the video, the reach is incredible...

If we are releasing something to the public, for example signing a player, the full interview will be available either on pay TV or pay digital. But we'll release a minute to TV companies and put a minute on our YouTube. We'll always use our YouTube, so people have to embed it and can't monetize it themselves.”



“It's like a trailer, right? You have to give some of that best stuff away; otherwise, you're not going to entice people (to buy the paywall)...We did a great longform piece with Philippe Coutinho...We did a piece with him at his home, walking his dogs, with his wife...We (also) got him to do a couple of Vines, which we hadn't done before (which sounded great!)...It's little things like that we'll use in the build-up to draw people in. The other thing is we've developed content sharing relationships with (major TV broadcasters)...We're developing this kind of give and take. Because we get certain things (others) can't get and vice-versa...”

[also notes a lot o the CR stuff, like Kop Kids, goes to social media for free]



“We have to be wary (with player content)...You have to take into account what's the perception of the club putting out content of a guy dancing with kids when he's been ruled out injured? (for example)...”

[Alex goes on to note how much care is taken with how content is perceived, removing ads from certain, more sensitive content, etc.]



On posting video to YouTube vs. native website video player

“If it's short clip, we'll normally put the same clip free on the website, as well. If it's something we really think is going to be shared, we'll put it on the YouTube, as well...When you look at the numbers compared to, say, Facebook...We know we can get the numbers on Facebook, it's just a matter of how we want to control that content...At least if it's on a YouTube video, it gives people a chance to embed it and get our message out and content out, but also still allows us to hold on to it...What we might do is even have two clips on the same page, the free bit and 'click here for more video'...

“You know when you get great access, then that stuff is going to do well...Having (big media guys) in our contact books really helps us get exposure, too.”



On how LFC monetizes video content

“We don't have much pre-roll at the minute...We always look at options. We have people coming to us every day...It's something we'll investigate with how we want our content to look. There are certain things we have to do contractually, with certain sponsors. We will do certain content with them and their adverts will go on it...

It's not as easy as putting adverts on it to make money...The website is not just our website, it's for the commercial team, for partnerships, for the ticket office. It's for everyone. We have to take all those voices into account when we're thinking about that.”



Helpful Tool: www.streamalong.tv, a website to track, watch, and discover Periscope streams


http://www.streamalong.tv/


On how LFC approaches its international audience

“We have 49 social channels in 20 languages. That's one of the reasons why, on the last day of last season, more people talked about Liverpool on Thai Facebook than all of the other premier leagues put together. Because of the kind of work our different language teams around thew world (do) based in those countries...

That gives us a big advantage (over) certain clubs that may have teams centralized or people that just have translated. We actually have people that live in those countries who understand the language, the intricacies, the situations...



“We have our targets for the next 12 months in terms of certain countries we're looking at...Looking at figures in the past year, Vietnam and Thailand on Facebook were up 53%; Twitter, in the past year, for USA up 402%, India almost 200%, and Poland up almost 100%.”



On driving growth abroad

“Success (on the field) is a big thing...There will be a correlation with (your traffic) and how well the club is doing...Generally, because we have reached out to fans in their native languages...[notes visits to Mumbai, Australia, Malaysia, Indonesia, and USA]...”

[Alex notes Liverpool's legacy of success and the BBC influence in former UK countries has helped fuel growth]



“Ultimately what people love is the match day experience. Anfield, singing “Walk Alone.” One of the world's most fantastic stadiums...The atmosphere that resonates through the TV. They want to feel some of that and that's what have to give them (as a digital team)...We don't get players on a daily basis (or access like in North America)...

We've [also] been much more visual. Instagram has been strong...Fans want to feel part of it, they know behind-the-scenes stuff, and they want to get to know the players as people...It's not just about the last game or next game, you get to know them as people. And that's what fans want to do. They want to be able to relate to these guys...”



On maximizing the times they DO get access to players

“From the start of the season, we've had (access to) the training ground, which has been a big thing to show we're part of the team and to develop those relationships (with players)...(so) we can get those news and stories no one else can get...”

“The Press Office guys have been really good and accommodating (us) because they understand our point of view because we have the subscription service, (so) we have to offer something...TV is still a major part for us (a bit different from clubs in other parts of the world)...



“Another thing we launched last year was LFC Xtra...(It is) A gateway to LFC. So you might know about LFC...that is where you'll get your (basic info and facts) and social media...That has been a fantastic for fans...We (want to) attract those other fans overseas (and help them) know what we're doing...It offers small, bite-sized stuff.”

[Alex cites example of embracing the recently popular “How Old Am I?” Internet trend]



“The worst thing you can do is do something that is really lame...that feels forced. I'd rather do [less] stuff, but do it right. Get it extremely popular, rather than try stuff that is too hard (to make work)...Liverpool fans will hold us to account (on all social posts)...

They're passionate. They know their club and they expect us to. We are held to account by our fans, in a good way, on a daily basis. And that is something we really value.”



On monetizing the global fan base for LFC

“The starting point is to get as many people to know about Liverpool Football Club. Most people will have access to the Premier League in their country...getting people to sign up for LFC TV Go is fantastic...[Alex talks about offering some content for free or cheap trial periods to get fans to try the service]”

“This is a permanent battle. It not going to end...It's the same for fans. (All Premier League clubs) want those fans...[Alex cites India and Brazil, in particular, as emerging markets for EPL clubs]



[Alex talks about the value of Liverpool traveling abroad to play exhibition games and meet fans in other countries]

(In previous years, LFC played international exhibition games as part of International Champions Cup [a bigger tournament], but now are arranging and promoting exhibition games abroad as a club themselves, and even have a separate tour website (www.LFCTour.com). They are also helping with sponsorship and ticket sales.)



“Wherever we go, we like to bring a little bit back to our fans (through content) to bring them that experience of what it's like to be in the city...It's exactly the same [thing] we do with our foreign fans (for games at home)...The club takes this stuff seriously now. The maxim of this club is 'Football is Family.' That is the basis for everything that we do. Make people feel included...

That obviously extends to the stuff we do on social, to make as many people feel included as possible. And to do as much stuff as possible in local languages helps (as well).”



Shareable Stat: [as of recording[ Looking at LFC's social media following on foreign social media sites – 2,313,757 followers on Sina Weibo, 463,663 on Youku, 60,378 on VK



Alex on LFC's international social network growth

Sina Weibo up 51% in the last year

“Getting a deal with PPT China was huge. It gave us a lot of credibility (there)...Engaging with (a prominent presenter there) helps you gain credibility with fans in that country to show you have a genuine interest in those people and what they want to do.”



The most important development in sports content since Alex started his career

“Social media...It has given everyone a voice. It's gone from the voice of (a single) newspaper or radio station or TV channel (to now) everyone has a voice.”



One reason for and one reason against driving traffic and engagement to one's website vs. social networks

“For is is you have 10% control of it. For is the more content on we get on our website, the more it helps. Bigger hits mean more sponsors. But, obviously, for some stuff on Facebook, you might get higher numbers.

Or if you put (something) out on social and it's (more) easily shareable, you can maybe reach people that wouldn't necessarily be going to our website. That's why LFC Xtra has been a great thing for us, because it's not a formal club website.”



How Alex plans LFC content when it comes to wins vs. losses

“It's something we certainly take into account. If you want to do something fun and wacky, you're not going to post that after a defeat. The tone and the voice on social media will change a little bit depending on how we've done. We can be a little more relaxed and informal if we've done well.

We have very passionate fans. Ultimately, the focus for the club is on winning games and, the more the club does that, the more it helps us and the more popular our content becomes.”



Alex's most memorable day in his time with LFC

“Steven Gerrard announcing he was going to leave was absolutely huge. A few of us knew about the story a couple of days before it came out, so it gave us a chance to plan...The way we did (everything) was perfect...We planned some very special content around Steven leaving for months...as a team, we nailed that...We couldn't afford to get that wrong.”

[Alex also cited the recent charity game, which was LFC's alone to cover, that grew subscriptions and gave them a unique opportunity to get access and content during the game]



Which Liverpool gets the most fan engagement on social media?

“Mario Balotelli is huge. He hasn't played a lot this season...Steven Gerrard is on Instagram and his pictures are incredibly popular. Felipe Coutinho does loads on Instagram...People have enjoyed finding out a lot about him...” [including him acclimating to life in England] He is really positive about promoting the other stuff that we do...We have a lot of buy-in from him, which helps.”



The type of content that is most consistently popular with LFC fans (and has it changed?)

“Anything we do with Kop Kids, which we put on free on YouTube...The players relax a bit and it's fun and informal...

“Something that does really well (too) is training...photos of the training. Players smiling and joking around do consistently well...[Alex also cites how players having fun and showing personality does very well, including a “celebration” practiced and later reproduced during a match]

People will consume (the fun things that take place) during training...It's the behind-the-scenes stuff that make people they're getting to know the players a bit more...”

[Alex cites a great example of showing a player a clip of players chanting his name, while asking about the fan support]



The best food to get at Anfield (LFC's home stadium) and the best food to get at another EPL venue

Alex said he hasn't eaten at Anfield, but the pies are said to be very popular and good

Alex cites Burnley as the best food outside of Liverpool

“If you look at the smaller Premier League teams like Burnley...One thing they have to really sell is hospitality, catering, food. So if there's more expensive tickets, maybe people to to have a meal (too_) and not just watch a game.”



The social media network or trend Alex expects to take off in the EPL in the next year

“I was going to say Snapchat because we did a Story of the Day around the Manchester United game and the numbers we got were unbelievable, so we'll probably do (more of that) going forward...

But it has got be Periscope for the way things are developing...So what happens if journalists start Periscoping stuff on their phones. It's a big conundrum for a lot of people...

Whether it's people going to sporting events or video-ing at home...We can use it for great stuff, like getting atmosphere from stadiums. You don't have to worry about proper cameras...From our point of view, it's a great way to bring color and atmosphere very easily to fans all over the world... but I can see why rights holders have such a concern about it.”



Alex's pick for the 2015 Champions League winner

Alex goes with Barcelona: “The front three are just absolutely unplayable...You've got three guys that are really at the top of their game. They've all bought into it...”



Alex's Social Media All-Star to follow

@HayleyMcCool: LFC's social media editor

@SamanthaBerry: A former colleague of Alex's at BBC now in charge of social media for CNN

“The reason I pick those two is because I'm a big advocate and I'd love to see more women involved on this side of the business. Even if you look at the guests that have been on your podcast...it's not through choice, is it? It's about the people that are working in the industry...”


https://twitter.com/HayleyMcCool

https://twitter.com/SamanthaBerry


Where to find Alex and LFC on social and digital media

@AlexKunawicz on Twitter and Instagram

@LFC, @LFCXtra, and @LiverpoolFC (automated one) on Twitter and Instagram; also on Facebook and lots of other places (49 social media presences for LFC in 20 languages)


https://twitter.com/alexkunawicz

https://instagram.com/alexkunawicz

http://twitter.com/lfc

https://twitter.com/lfcxtra

https://twitter.com/liverpoolfc

https://instagram.com/liverpoolfc/

https://www.facebook.com/LiverpoolFC


Thanks so much to Alex for sharing his time, knowledge, experience, and expertise with the Digital and Social Media Sports podcast!

Listen to the podcast and find more episodes and content on iTunes and at www.DSMSports.net.

You can also follow me on Twitter @njh287


http://www.DSMSports.net/

https://www.twitter.com/njh287

Episode 45 of the DSMSports Podcast w/ Alex Kunawicz of Liverpool FC

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Transcript of Episode 45 of the DSMSports Podcast w/ Alex Kunawicz of Liverpool FC