Dee50s posts1. just wanted to express my gratitude and to post 4 weeks of charts so that other people can see what is possible with this method, "once you learn it"!!!!

I trade the 1Hr and 15 Min 6E (eurusd) from 9.00 - 17.00 CET (europe) London open - NY 11.00am. I do not trade this method exclusively, I find it hard to ignore a channel breakout and other things I have learnt. But I have become consistently profitable since adopting this method.

So thank you to all who contributed to the developement of this method.To all you others who want to fix what is not broken. Get a Job.

PS. I trade Futures so my charts look different from most on FF. Arrows are TDI crosses!

2. This weeks trades.

I removed the pivots and the S & R lines that were cluttering up the chart so that you can see the Original TMS method more clearly, you can always look left to see where they are, oh bugger!! look I left an eroneos EMA, never mind pretend it is not there.

Good luck with your trading.

It is not obligatory to blow up an account to become a successful trader, if you do, it really means your Money Management is crap!!!!

3.

4. Different Platform, different Data Feed, very similar results. Just goes to show that this method works and bloody well!!!

5. Has anyone done anything like this, see attached screenshot, I went back over the last 30 trades and recorded them in a spreadsheet, apart from making me review my trades in detail, which was interesting, the information gained is also interesting.

Most of the columns are obvious. The last one RETRACE is how many pips priced retraced against my entry point.

2 pip gain is as a result of my stop moving to B/E +2 and being stopped out as a result of a pull back.

I trade the eurusd in futures (6E) my time zone is GMT+1 and I trade London open to European close.

6. I have attached a screenshot of a weeks trading, its the first five entries on the spreadsheet, you will see that I have superimposed ordinary candles onto the HA ones, why? because HA candles are fantastic for keeping you in a trend but absolutely crap for getting you into one, I prefer to see the price action for the entry and for the exit, once in I click the button and just watch the HA. Maybe the chart will answer your questions.

Timeframe. 1 hr. check 15 min for entry. I do not trail my stop. Stop is moved to B/E + 2 once price reaches 15ish pips in profit and either my target is hit or I close the trade. I use Fibos, previous S/R (look left) to set target, I do not use R/R ratios to work out my target, ultimately Price Action dictates exit, or, it is time to go home so I close the trade. Sorry but that is as precise as I can get. Oh. The shaded boxes are my trading time. 09:00 - 18.00 GMT+1.Hope it helps

PS.

If the signal is outside of my normal trading hours (3rd day on 1hr chart) I look to the 15 min chart for an entry see attached. In the same way I use the 15 min to see if I can get a better entry for my 1 hr signal (reduce risk)

7. Thanks.

I back test methods or ideas like this too. But incorporating this (the study) into my daily routine has been priceless, I am seeing things in the trades that I completely missed and it is providing me with more precise info, how effective my stop placement is, what sort of retracement should I suck up I was starting to feel queesy every time price retraced more than 7 pips but this has shown me that I do not need the travel sickness pills after all. Basically it has given me even more confidence in the system which means I am more relaxed, my decision making has improved etc.

8. DEE: Just curious why you took this trade. What said to you "this is a good setup"? There is absolutely no doubt that it worked out well.EMM: See chart

DEE: Thank you, appreciate it. Interesting. I did not take this entry because the 3 previous bars following the pin bar were Dojis, the TDI cross was at 3 o clock almost flat, we were in a 30 pip range and the entry was in the middle of the range, the BBs were in a squeeze, we were just 10 pips from the 2300 and it was FOMC day.

Just goes to show if we all had the same vision wouldnt the world be a boring place and if we all had my vision we would all be a lot poorer.

Nice call.EMM: Hi Dee,

what I showed on the H1 chart is are just some of the things what I saw and can be used for decision to take that trade.however, if I look at the chart and look for condtions not to take the trade I will also find a few.what is important is to put weight on certain setup conditions and make decision base on that.

you mention FOMC which is also a decision making factor. trading news release is more speculative.

what I did not mention on the H1 chart is the S&R.look at D and H4, the resistance region 1.2320 is quite obvious.the TDI BB squeeze is an opportunity for breakout, but that will require something to cause a breakout.

we also need to read the market sentiments of USD by looking at all USD related pairs. we determine whether the market is pro-USD or anti-USD.

so final decision was that SELL was the better idea on Wed.every trade we take has a cost to it, i.e. the initial SL aka 'R'.once we decided to take the trade, consider the 'R' gone from our books.as traders we focus more on determining and managing the exit(s).managing the 1st exit is the SL and the other exit(s) is how much profits.it is a mindset thing we muts train ourselvs to become traders.Trading is afterall processes which we perform.

regards,9.

10. Thanks, your charts and explanations are invaluable to me.

DEE: Curious, Your first entry was taken 2 hours before the signal appeared, your 2nd and 3rd entries 1 hour before, your 4th entry you took on the bounce as expected, your last entry you took 2 hours after the signal bar, presumably after price had cleared the top of the channel. How many pips are needed to confirm the breakout of the channel?

PHX: RE: First entry.....I have learned that many times the London session will often continue the same direction as was established from the open of the day (considering there are no pending important news releases). With the strong move down I decided to try and take advantage of that and entered on the red candle following the first blue one....also please note, the green TDI line was below the red and the yellow and the 50 line giving me additional confirmation that price might drop.RE: Second & Third entry....both trades were taken based on price action and pullback candles following LO. Obviously only one trade worked out.RE: Fourth entry.....that trade was taken during the first candle of LO following a break of the 200EMA (three previous candles had already pierced the line and pulled back down).RE: Fifth entry.....I normally only trade the London session. That day, I got to my computer at LO and took the trade after it broke the previous candle. I watched the trade carefully in case it reversed at the 200EMA. That happens quite often. Once it cleared the 200, I rode it until I saw a double top and exited.I see you trade this system very well. Keep up the good work. I like the research paper you did on your last 30 trades....lots of good information to be learned there.Good trading.11. Greatly appreciate your time. Many thanks for the explanation.

This week was turning into a debacle for me but thanks to Draghi, it turned into a spectacular week. Although many of the pips gained are not directly attributable to the method I have attached my chart for the week. I have traded News for a couple of years now so I am comfortable staying in the market at those times and anyway my trade (Thursday) was at B/E at the time of the announcement so nothing to lose.

12. Vantage has answered your question on HH LL most succinctly.

The questions you ask can not really be answered easily on a thread. There are books written that do not explain everything fully. So forgive me for being obtuse, but, looking at my chart what do you think my entry criteria is?? The clues are on the chart.

This is what happened on Friday. TDI signaled at 6am (i was still in bed)Asian session had done its usual and price had formed a channel, price was stuck around 2180, EuroUsd often holds or pauses at the 20s & 80s. Action: wait for breakout. Breakout occurred long. Action place a Buy limit order @ 1.2210. Why Here? 20 pips higher than the breakout? You answer.Stop goes where? 1.2170 last swing low.Target goes where? We have a strong target area, WHY? Major Confluence. 1.2300, 76.40% Fibo, prior S/R Level, prior Swing High. Place target @1.2290Buy order gets hit, Action: Leave it alone, EA is set to B/E @+15. Time for coffee and a cigarette.Target is Hit, little slippage in my favour, nice trade.Price hit 1.2300 and is reversing, no big surprise.Interesting, another trade opportunity. Why?Price retraced back thru the 61.8, 50, almost to the 38.2, held at former S/R level. When Euro does this it often rebounds all the way upto the 138.2% extension. Candle closed as Large Doji. Looking for an entry.TDI bounce. TDI is over 68 but!!!, if TDI had stopped at or below 68 I would not bother but,!! currencies can still move 100pips in overbought territory.Action:Place buy limit at close of next candle 1.2329. Could have entered sooner but this price level clears the problem area of confluence. Do not be greedy.Stop @ 1.2295 just below 1.2300 round numberTarget @ 1.2415 just below 138.2 extensionBuy filled. Action: Leave it alone, this is the hardest part.Time approaching 18.00, after hours now, not good, TDI is heavily into Overbought territory and outside the Bollinger Band. Looking for exit.Close trade manually for 53 pips. That will do.

13. Look at attached chart, if that does not make it clearer then you need to do some research. HH HL & LH LL are an integral part of Price Action and Trading.

14. Today was a good day. You B/E. Much better than a losing day.You do not need courage. There are no heroes in Trading.You need confidence in your method.

Hope the attached helps a little.

15. EMM: Hi,

LO trade open.Attempt to catch a retracement of yesterday rally.H4 shows a bearish engulfing setup.

regards,

VAN: Price came back to test the tops from 6/7 Aug which is for now acting as support. We definitely weren't sellers and Mrs V did not get a buy entry she liked so perhaps might only get an opportunity this afternoon.

For now bias definitely up in line with D closes and 1hr HH HL flow. Until that flow changes of course.DEE: In addition to Vantages comment.

Optomize your entry

If you check 1 tf lower you would have seen price was in the bottom of a cycle. 1 tf up (4hr) and bullish engulfing is forming. 1 Hr chart at 09.00 (08.00 gmt) shows a pin candle (reversal candle) not a strong one but one to take note of. Always expect a retest of a high, especially at resistance, confluence of 61.8% and 1.2500 RN then look for an entry either short because price has been rejected, or long on a breakout. OR take an entry on the 15 min, it gave me 20 pips long for 1:2. Now waiting to see if we get rejection. By the way I too believe that the price will fall, but I am not assuming it will.

16. 17.Done for the day. 100 pips. With congestion as it was, and is, I prefer to keep an eye on a lower time frame ie, 15 min provides me with a lot more info than just the 1 hr. I normally only trade the 1 hr but today needed some extra tools. first trade was a long taken from a pin candle which on the 1 hr chart was just hanging in the air but the 15 min showed a bounce off the MA, TDI and stochs confirmed upward momentum, target was 1.2480 because PA had been contained within that level and it is a well know area of S/R for the euro. second trade was a short after triple bounce off 1.2480 TDI was turning over and so was stochs. 1st target was Daily Pivot 2nd was 50 % retracement. 1st target was hit large Doji formed on 15 min, hourly chart looked calm so decided to stay in, next candle Momentum HA so things looked good, but then, PA died and small doji formed, TDI and stochs had turned up, The tape showed buy orders coming in below 1.2440 held until Price had gone down to pick them up, reversed at 1.2440 target at 1.2480 again, same reasons.

18.Careful with divergence. Take note when divergence occurrs at previous S/R levels. When divergence occurs over many hours on the lower TF charts it does not necessarily mean it will happen. Look for confirmation on TF either side.

19. Daily shows nothing in the way until 1.2600, weekly R5, monthly R1. 1.2645 major S/R level. BUT Divergence. TDI rising but not overbought.

4HR shows top of rising channel 1.2590. No divergence. Overbought. so what we have been overbought for 2 days.

1 HR. TDI riding the 68. The 68, Priceline and signal line are in love. PA is ranging, again just like yesterday 30 - 40 pip range. Need a catalyst.

MAs on all TFs are well separated and heading in the same direction, except for the potential cross on the 4 HR of the 89 above the 200.

So what do YOU think are we in the money?

I am of to my local bar for a coffee and a sandwich, back at 14.30 for the news.

20. My trades for Fri 24. Explanation on the chart. Traded the 15 min because first signal was outside my trading time.

X-Man. Tried out the 10ema. Swings and Roundabouts. Usefull for scalping the 15 min or if you are a Noob who has not yet worked out how to enter and exit using PA. A very basic back test on 3 TF showed that sometimes it would have got me in 1 bar earlier and sometimes it would have got me in 1 bar later than the current method. In just about all instances it would have taken me out of the trade much earlier. But it was still profitable. I would say that it is a positive aid for those who have not yet learnt to read PA.

21.Look Left and All Will Be Revealed.

I first drew S & R lines on the weekly, then looked at the daily to see how they related, did price react to these and how, at what point did price react, drew my S&D zones using S&R line and reaction point and voila, checked 4 hr and 1hr chart for more detail, had price reacted at my S&D zone.

So yeah I get it, I just keep repeating this exercise and the zones will become evident and in the process I will learn how price reacts at these points.

Thanks. This is what I love about trading every now and then I get to become a virgin again.

22.What would you do now?? 30 pips in the bank and a runner.

23.I didn,t run, I held on until target was hit, the attached explains why, it is not rocket science.

Do not give PIPS back if you do not have to!! Have an exit plan.

There is a difference between planning your exit and being greedy.

24.Good for you, keep an eye on what is happening, but I do not need to tell you that you have been around long enough to know.

25.can not understand why you keep trying to go short. Divergence is evident on the 15 min but as yet no confirmation. Surely longs on the touch of the 10 would yield 10 pips on average based on an ATR of 13??Are you anticipating the market??

26. 105 Pips in 4 trades.

3 x 15 pips1 x 60 pips

Traded the range. Each touch of the channel entered short for top of channel long for bottom of the channel, 20 pip channel range so target of 15 pips stop just outside channel at 7 pips 1:2 RR. The system confirmed the trades although a bar or 2 later. The last trade was just luck I only just managed to get my target out of the way so was able to take advantage of the drop, otherwise would have been another 15. But considering the action not a bad result. Do not chase squiggly lines when price is ranging, find the top and bottom of the range and just trade the bounces off in the opposite direction if you get it wrong you lose 7 pips, not an account killer.

Hope you all prospered as well

PSForgot to say, this is the 15 min chart of the eurusdAlso if you had traded the system/method you would have made some pips too.

27.Took me 2 mins to do this with Metatrader. Do you think the method works with other pairs.

28.Good example of perfect entry conditions. Dont need to explain them as they are obvious. Got to go out so took 30 pips, price will probably drop further but, there is allways another one.

Good luck for the rest of the day.

29.TDI Blue lines are Bollinger Bands, and when they squeeze together it is wise to wait because it allways signals a strong move is coming, you just do not know which way.

Also. Take your Horizontal line tool and draw a line across the tip of your bull candle, then click on the 4 hr button and what do you see? click on the daily button and what do you see? look where the horizontal goes, what does it intersect? Watch out for support and resistance and confluence.Could this be forming a Double Top?

Look closely at your candle, the small nip on the right is where price closed, so price broke asian range but it did not close above the pivot, this should have been a warning to wait and see.30.40 pip CT. Tooke this on the 15 min, more info.There were so many things saying YES. Now I will wait and see if it comes back down. Pin bar formed on the 4 hr, so we will have to wait and see.

Explanations on the chart

31.For those of you who were still looking to go short yesterday, (wednesday) a simple confirmation of Trend change is shown on the attached. Breakout from a Trend line then a pullback to test the trend line. Marked in the circle, you can see it on the hourly and clearer on the 15 min. Trading is not rocket science, Trading is simple it is people who make it complicated.

Stop analyzing the market, you can not predict where it is going, let the market "show" you where it is going.

PSForgot to point out HH HL on the 15 min chart that also confirms a change in direction.

32.Psstt!!

I will get my wrist slapped for suggesting this, so do not tell the puritans, and, this is not suitable for children unless they are accompanied by an adult.

MTF does not just work TOP DOWN, it can be beneficial to keep an eye on what is happening below. Compare the results for today between the 1 Hr and the 15 min. The 1 hr PA confirmed the entry in the 15 min. You may not have taken the trade on the 1 hr because the TDI cross occured at the 68 where as the 15 min entry occurred 45 mins earlier. Much tighter stop, 18 pips 15min against 40 pips for 1 hr, moved stop to B/E when RN was hit 1.2800 after that just let it run upto target.

Do not trade the 15 min exclusively, it has more signals and more fakeouts, but in some instances it can improve your 1 hr entry or as in this instance improve your results.

The use of Performance Enhancers can be detrimental to your financial health.

33.Well done Robuk, nice pips, better than me. Only 30 pips so far, missed my 40 Pip target by 1 pip. Never mind there are always more.

I was late coming to the table today, gave the German court time to waffle.

Here is my chart, 15 min again. Everything explained on the charts.

34.If you wait, they will come (PIPS) + 50

15 min chart 3 compelling reasons for this trade, can you spot them?

35.Another 15 min entry, + 50. There was no entry on the 1 hr, I missed the first entry on the 15 min, outside my trading time. I now have a 1 hr entry running and 20 pips in profit stop is at B/E +2, price is at a major S/R level (check the daily). We will see if it has the legs to run on.

36.Just to finish

The reason I closed my 1 hr trade when I did. DIVERGENCE. Marked on the chart, and just look what price has done, thanks to divergence I got out with good pips instead of just a B/E. The 1 hr chart does not show this divergence, but the tdi does hook up.

Divergence out of Oversold or Overbought is much stronger than any other, combined with a major area of S/R and you should act on it. No doubt there will be many traders who have taken a long trade off this action.

37.

38.Good trades all week as usual for you. I admire your trading and aspire to reach your level of expertise.But my point is, if you want to make the comparison of todays trades, not one of your trades today was using this method in fact reviewing some of your charts many of your trades are pure PA trades, much like mine, but this is not what newbies will be doing, not until they have learnt to master PA and S/R and trendlines etc, like you. Which your charts are superb at showing.Newbies would have been chopped up like mince today if they followed the rules and had not at least looked at the 15min.39.The TDI Indicator can tell you more than you think.

40.closed this trade because of the following.

Confluence of 78 & 89 Fibs and touch on rising trend line which was the top of the rising channel, can be seen on the 4hr. If it carries on lower I will re enter.

Old trend lines should not be forgotten.

41.Sorry I have taken so long to reply, but we have had a real storm here in my part of spain. I live in the mountains and half the mountain came down and parked its self on my track, and of course, no electricity since 5.00 am it has only just come back on 18.30pm. Any way here is the chart.Looks like I missed a really good afternoon, 80 ish pips huh!!

41.I agree. There is so much holding up price that only news will move it in one direction or the other.

42.Looked like it was going to be crap, but worked out. 15min signal and entry +50 pips and I managed to scalp a quick +10 on the reversal from the high. Chart shows it all.

PS My bias was long for today because price had not broken below the trend line on the 4hr. The trend line was the channel top from yonks ago. chart is 10 posts back.

PPS. I did not close when divergence appeared as i only take note of diveregence if it occurrs when the oscillators are either Over Bought or Over Sold,

43.

44.Hope someone was trading this as well. 15 mn chart entries. could have traded the 1 hr but today the 15 min was clearer.

Entries are obvious, I hope! Entry Long, BUEOB, Y Low, DB, Wk Pivot, TDI cross. Target was confluence of 61.8% & 78% & Wk R1. + 40pips

Short Entry. WK R1, 78.6%,61.8%, TDI cross. Target was confluence 38.2 & 89% & wk Pivot +38 pips

PS

I overlayed the OHLC bars so that the 1st entry long is clearer. The HA candles show a large Doji where as the OHLC bars show a Bullish Engulfing.

45.1.2935 ish was an area of S/R check it on 4 hr and daily. I have marked a couple of very recent areas with large blue arrows.The TDI bounced off the yellow base lineTdI hooked over sharply. Both reasons to get out. When the green price line gets a long way out from the signal line it will move back in closer. Look on the chart for spikes in the price line and see what happens almost immediately after.

In market conditions like these try moving to B/E after 15 pips or less. I can not remember the last time I got stopped out for a loss and yes you may get stopped out for B/E more often but at least you do not have to make up a loss. And you can re-enter.

46.What you missed was a pull back entry, it was more obvious on the 15 min.I have attached both time frames so you can see it. Entry on the pullback 1.2990, target was 1.3050 based on the 89% fibo and ADR of 1.3055. I use a mixture of Fibos and looking left to determine my TP zone. I use the 15min for better entries, and I do not always wait for the 60 min signal, as you can see.

Currently at B/E +6 on a CT trade that is up 25pips but am monitoring because price has just bounced off the 78% fibo and the W R1 with the D R2 just above, if I am lucky price will hold below the D R2, but W R1 acted as resistance earlier so may be support now.

EDIT.JUst an update on my CT trade. I closed it out for 26 pips, it is 17.10 here and I stop trading, so according to my rules I have exited.That is +60 and +26, enough for today.

EDIT 2.Forgot to mention. Reason for CT trade. Double Top with strong Divergence from OverBought condition, just how I like it. I was allready in the trade before the signal on the 15 min chart, let alone the 1 hr.

47.Simplest advice on trading, hardest to accept:

The simple fact is we individuals will rarely, if ever, be able to compete in trading when the primary question is why [prices move]. However, if we change the essential question to what (a price has done in the past and is doing now), then we can compete. Why is concerned with knowledge; what is concerned with observation. Therefore, the correct approach for the individual trader is to trade on what you see, not on what you think."48.I am currently in a trade on the Eurusd. First target +25 achieved Stop is B/E +10.

I did not take the first signal which was a short for 2 reasons, the signal candle was a Pin Bar reversal and my bias was long. There were other reasons but I will let you work them out from what you see on the charts.

I did not take the first long signal either because there is a significant S & R level sitting at Fridays High,( see daily chart) which was only 20 pips from the entry, I wanted to see a pullback from this and enter on the Pullback. The rest is history.

As I write Price came back to my stop but just missed it, so far. It is now 17.10pm and I do not hold trades past my closing time so I will close my second batch for +15

49.A Fib retracement to the .618 or .786 level of the AB leg tends to terminate at the 1.272 Fib expansion of the AB leg.

You can use the Fib expansion tool found in all trading platforms.

Use Fib retracement tool to establish the retracement levelThen the Fib expansion tool to establish possible target.

50.+ 50 pips. All the info is on the charts. 1 Hr with 15 min confirmation

51.I personally disconnect the mouse, after I have placed a trade and give it to my wife to hide. But then I found I could call the broker and have him close the trade early. So I had to give my wife the mobile phone as well as the mouse. After doing this for a while I eventually got out of the habit of closing my trades early.

I am not being sarcastic!!52.The problem is, I can't persuade myself to let the winners run. I should of totally take more.Seriously. I suffered with the same malaise for years. Have you ever tried to give up smoking or women, I do not recommend doing both together, for some it is a very difficult thing to do even with the help of artificial aids. In the end "you" have to decide to give up, it is not easy. I eased the path by taking partial profits if I thought I might lose out, this means you might make a little less money, to start with, but you get in the habit of leaving your final target where it is, eventually you can stop taking partial profits and enjoy the benefit of all the money.

Alternatively. You could back test your trades and see how many times your target would "actually" have been hit, would it really??? "Knowing" really helps to focus the mind.53.Just entered on hourly signal. I have been out all morning just returned in time for this signal, stop is B/E +6 have taken 50% off for +25, not sure this has got the legs to reach my final TP.

Is anybody there???Knock once for Yes twice for No

Edit. Just got stopped at my B/E, Not surprising really, bounced off the 50EMA which was resistance earlier today and the 50%fibo of yesterdays high todays low. Some pips better than no pips.

54.here is an update. I have tested this with live data this morning. Here are the results so far

15 trades15 winnerstotal +75 pips

BUT. I do not think this will work very well on the spot forex market because of thespreads, unless I tighten the rules.

I have tested this in the Futures market where we do not have the problem with spreads and it works.

SO Big thanks to Hoss for the idea

Update. 16 trades. 16 winners. Who ever said money grows on trees, was wrong.

55.Here is the whole chart for today.

17 trades17 winnersmaximum stop loss 6 pips

I am going to try this out on a 5 minute chart to see if I can make this more feasable for the spot forex market. 5 pips plus the spread is just no good and you have such an antiquated order entry method, but a higher time frame might work.

I will post some rules when I have tested a bit more.

56.Or you can be silly like me. I started off my trading life scalping the 1 minute time frame.

This is purely for entertainment purposes and should not be taken seriously, I threw this method together and demo traded it today. 5 pip target. Bugger me if it didn,t work.

17 trades x 5 = 85 pips

57.Here you go. Todays really crappy PA yielded 68 pips with 3 trades.

I am not going to run a thread for this. A chart is attached, work it out, I did so you can.

Stochastic. 8,3,3TDI (new setting) RSI 7. OB 80, OS 20. the rest default. YOU DO WANT the volatility Bands20 EMA200 EMA

58.Why would we all not have entered on this Long Signal??

If you missed the first bar you have another 2 to get in on, but you need to look UP as well as LEFT to make sure you have some where to go.

Option 1 = 37 pipsOption 2 = 32 pipsOption 3 = ??????

59.

60.Applause is a little premature, I got out for + 34 pips at confluence of the 61.8, Wk Pivot, 200 EMA. Even if I had let it run upto the daily ADR it would only have managed + 45. I am happy to be out with +34, it is peeing it down here and when ever it rains we lose the electricity. At the moment we are in the clouds and I can not see my Olive Trees 10m from my house, so the Internet connection is a bit hit and miss too.

61.Recommended read by DEEI became a member of the forum 7 years ago. As a beginner I spent most of the first 2 years studying various trading systems posted here, using some of them on demo accounts and (unfortunately) a few on my live account. Eventually I created two of my own which I still use with little modifications up to this day. However, the old hobby is not dead. I still test almost everything. Occasionally I find a new idea, an interesting indicator, even a good system that can be made profitable with some adjustments.

But the really fun part is to follow what happens to such systems over the months and years that follow the initial post. They have a life of their own and seem to follow the same path, over and over again. Hundreds of systems, thousands upon thousands of posters and posts and nothing ever changes. To me their evolution is now more than predictable and Im sure there are many others who have noticed the same patterns.

1. Heres my holy grail!The OP tells us a bit about himself, the rules of the system, some charts carefully chosen with entries/exits that worked great. He informs us that hes been very successful using the system.2. The fan club is created!The first people who post are those who have a few winning trades using the rules originally posted. They become groupies and whatever happens in the future they will defend the system even when its obviously failing miserably.3. The newbies are here!People who know virtually nothing about trading, Metatrader or indicators start asking questions such as where do I put the mq4 and tpl files? how many lots should I enter? what time is it here in when London opens? does this work without a stop loss? and so on.4. Youre a legend Sir!Following the beautiful charts with a bunch of winning trades and the very wise answers given to the questions asked by the army of beginners the OP gains the unofficial title of super-trader. The number of posts grows exponentially. Everybody is happy, doubling the account is around the corner, and from there its just a matter of months until making it to Forbes.5. We need more indicators!Market conditions change and the system loses money a few days in a row. Clearly it has to be adjusted. How? By adding more indicators to filter out the bad trades. Its very easy, isnt it? Just add something that would have kept one out of the last losing trade. It doesnt matter that the very same filter would also prevent one from taking many of the trades that turned out to be winners. Nobody bothers to backtest this. So lets add the stochastic the 200 EMA examine the higher time frame check the daily range put the Renko bars to smooth it the TDI works best I would add the Bollinger bands 6. The systems are here!Since everybody is now euphorically adding indicators and rules we no longer have one system. We have anywhere from 3 to 10 versions of the system, some of which having in fact very little in common with the original rules.7. Chaos reigns supreme!With all those new additions and people posting like crazy charts and results using different setups nobody knows exactly whats going on. The thread is full of requests like can anyone point me to the latest official version of the system?8. We need them robots!Now that we know how great the system is its time to ask some great coders to make an EA. Which version of the rules should he use? We can try a few maybe one will work.9. Nah dem robotz no good!The EA is losing because we humans can see and feel things about trading it comes with experience. So lets forget EA results, forget backtesting, and lets just trust the thousands of pips reported by the groupies. The system must be good, no doubt!10. Its just that little thing left to do!After a while, noticing that a large number of people posting in the thread get mixed or even bad results, someone has an epiphany. All we need to make the system really great is an indicator or something to tell us if the market is trending or ranging. But not yesterday or last week or last hour. What is it GOING to do next?11. It works for me!So we are left with the OP and his early followers claiming that the system works beautifully, they all make thousands of pips each week. We have a few others who claim that its losing big time and others get so-so results. And the vast majority still keeps trying to find that extra indicator that will make the system perfect.12. Theres a new kid in town!A few months later most people left the building. Even the OP most of the times. Nobody knows why. Have they become so incredibly rich that posting on FF is no longer interesting? Or maybe the system is not so good after all? But hey who cares? Did you see that new system? That one is really great!But what if the system is actually good but traders dont take time to learn it and get caught up in the 5 and 6 phase??? Make proper research and dont follow the masses!!!62. double top on the 15 min. Move stops up to lock in profit or close. Divergence with a DT strong reversal signal, eventually, normally

63.Double top on the hourly at the confluence of the 89% and 61.8%. TDI OB on 1hr, 15min and LTF

64.Missed the breakout, bugger, need to get up earlier. but, all is not lost.

1 x 4hr 200 ema bounce trade +201x 15 min pullback entry +10

Even if this is all today because of Non Farm tomorrow it will do.

65.How far can the 2nd leg pullback to validate a 123, is it 38% Fib, 50% or 61.8%?

66.There is no right or wrong answer. But I use Fibos to gauge the likely strength of the reversal. Pulback to the 38% = strong, 50% Medium and 61.8 very weak. Same as an ABCD

67.I did not take it because of the impending news, even small news sends thing haywire. I took the 123 for +15.

Just noticed. Your platform signaled the TDI cross 1 candle earlier than my platform

68.+20 +10 +15

Took a short off the 15min, break below the 1hr 200 EMA, target was the 61.8% Fibo which was the congestion and swing point from earlier. +25

Munir is showing you how to trade the 1Hr charts, very effectively, I am using the 15 min, mainly because I have not yet mastered reading PA on the 1 hr, but with Munirs help I will.

Sorry. Reason for the short. Double Top off resisitance. break below the 1 hr 200 EMA. Good momentum and sharp angle on the TDI.

69.I was curious. What happens if you only take TDI signals with minimal use of PA knowledge, S&R, Trendlines etc. In other words virtually no technical knowledge similar to a virgin trader.

The signal can only occur maximum 1 bar back outside Trading time. Or bounce trade entry.

Trades are terminated on the dot of the close of your trading time eg. (my chart time 18.00. GMT +2)

B/E at +15

Judge for yourselves.

70.I have marked the 4 trades on a 1 min chart. Might make it more visible for you. This is not a scalping thread so I am not going to teach this here, or anywhere else for that matter.

But, I use a 3 pip stop and 10 pip target set automatically as I enter the trade.

71.Nothing to do with this method. Just to show that when you are ready, you can pull pips out of any market. The key is do not be greedy and find the flow. +45 and I am done.

72.3 trades for today, 1 was a really poor entry. So far +44 pips.

1st trade was a simple Breakout from the low of the asian session for +10

2nd trade was a botch up based on the hourly signal, if I had looked at the 15min stochs I would have seen that it was OS and a pullback was likely, so I closed for B/E.

3rd trade Pullback confirmation of the hourly signal. Pullback to the Support of the asian low. Small Pinbar. LH after LL. Reaction to the election has been so muted today that I took partial profit at +16 and moved stop to B/E took final profit at the 61.8% fibo, I would normally go for the 78.6%, but, +34 pips was acceptable.

Update: If only I had knownDont you just hate "hindsight"

73.Easy if you know how. Do it for long enough and they stick out like a ferrari on a second hand car lot.

74.As the man said. EASY. You do not need an elaborate set of rules, you do not need someone elses templates. You just have to be able to recognize Divergence and Hidden Divergence. Total of 66 pips in this crap market.

75.Rags2Riches started this thread, not me. All I am doing is re-inforcing what the man said. That said, here is a chart of last Fridays EU. Using just Hidden Divergence would have given you 3 opportunities to get into the trend. As for stop loss, where does Divergence occur? at a swing!!! so where do you put your stop loss?? I have attached a chart with a little more detail you should be able to work out entries from that. Exits of your own choice. Put this stuff on a chart and work it thru, you will be amazed at how quickly the light will shine.

76.+10 pips long @2679 Tp @2689

77.R2R. I have disregarded HD in the past, so you have much more experience of it than I. I have noticed that HD forms much more gradually than RD to the extent that it can fake you out into entering far too early. Screenshot attached. As you can see in this example from tuesday. 1 HD took 14 bars to form each one a potential losing trade, for the inexperienced eye. Is there a way to avoid being fakedout by this sort of formation of HD. Thanks for your help.

78.Yesterdays opportunities. Meagre.

Just wanted to add. Only one of the trades as a divergence trade, the others were PA. I only took the first HD.

79.1 trade that became 2. Both bounce entries

80.A little bit more. Pullback from the BRN just to round off the day. Taken on the 15 min for clarity.

81.Runner or Not. Hidden divergence cancelled Bullish divergence. Possibly???

UPDATEWho cares I am at B/E +2

UPdate.% off +25

82.TP +34. and now Bull Divergence on the 15 min at BRN

UPDATE.

Oscillators ended up overextended so not a true Bull Divergence. That is why you should wait for candles to close.

83.HD +34 RD +10. That will do. I was out until 15.00 (gmt +1) so not too bad.

84.See what u mean!!! Top one your version, bottom TDI.

85.Out for +50 pips. Nothing fancy. TDI cross long. Just held on to it until my stochs went OB which coincided with 100% Fib, I would normally target 89% fib, but momentum was strong so I held.

86.This is an example of PA Trading. This is how I traded this morning because of the Holiday. Using the following. Nothing fancy nothing really technical. 40 Safe pips in a crappy market.

BreakoutDivergenceTrend LineBRNS&R

PS. Forgot to mention, you also have 123s and ABCDs on the chart. If you want to mark up achart for youre self as practice, I traded a 5min this morning.

87.Last 2 PA trades today gave me another 22 safe pips. +62 for the day. Night night. Happy thanksgiving to all you on the other side of the atlantic.

88.

89.Answer on the chart. If you are going to use stochastic, dont ignore it. The stochastic will tell you more about what phase the market is in than most other oscillators. Set it to 8,3,3. and see how it identifies the swings.

90.+ 35 pips. Price has broken above 1.2900 But waiting for a pullback for a possible entry long.

91.A set of rules to follow for each of your trading methods, this is the only way to get round knowing too much. Define your entry conditions and press the button when your conditions are met. I know of no other way.92.With the market as it is, I will settle for + 30, for this morning. Afternoons I have gone back to trading the E-Mini S&P bit more volatility.

Reasons for the trade should be obvious on the chart. Reason for exiting should be obvious on the chart.

93.As luck would have it, we got a nice pin bar on a pullback so I re entered for another + 25 pips, so 55 pips for this morning will do me. In hindsight I should have just held my first trade and let it run. I would normally target the 78.6% or the 89% but as we have been in a sustained up trend and these trades were counter trend, I played it safe. Isnt hindsight a great thing, if only we could trade with it.

94.What do U think??? Range of about 30 - 35 pips until after the ECB press conference???? OR ????

95.How does it look this way up'''

96.Better late than never. Had to wait today, patience was really tested but in the end it paid off +73 pips following the News conference. While this trade was looking after its self I have been nursing a trade on the E-Mini which ended up whip sawing all over the place again, hence my late posting.

Hope you all prospered and caught this move as well.

97.Looking back thru earlier posts, found this from PHx62. Hope he doesnt mind.

"Took 2 trades today....the first one was a lesson in patience....it went up 46 of the 50 pips I needed and bounced around but it finally hit my TP about 8 hours later. I did not monitor the trade after moving my SL to BE....otherwise I probably would have exited for a smaller profit.One thing I have noticed is that when the TDI red line is sloping up at a good angle, many times the green line will bounce off it or cross slightly, then cross back over and continue in the same direction as the red line.The second trade was just the opposite.....a cross of the TDI, entry on the opening of the 2nd candle and a quick 50 pips. Overall a very good 100 pip day. "

98.I do not trade London session on fridays, I do the shopping instead but I like to try and get a few pips when I get back. This afternoon has been kind to me. Chart 1 is EU +30 pips. Chart 2 is E-Mini S&P + 25 pips. Combination of PA trades confirmed by TDI cross

99.Have you tried the Stochastic at 8,3,3, shows divergence better than the TDI and shows momentum better. Also, if you want to see the cross just add a 10sma applied to the first indicator, this crosses at the same time as the TDI, some times a little earlier.

100.If a trade is going 60 pips against you on the 1 hr you "Seriously" need to stop and evaluate what you are doing. If a trade went against me 60 pips on the 4hr I would worry, if it went that much against me on the daily that would be acceptable but the 1 hr!!!!. What did your backtesting show you would be the "normal expectation". Have you backtested? You are clearly doing something very wrong.

Edit.

I have just pulled up a chart of AU and none of what you are saying makes any sense!!!!see attached. If you entered long at1.04918 price could not have gone against you 60 pips, the AU did not move that much. Post another chart and mark your entry and exit and remember that you are using a 5 digit broker so when you measure the price move and the crosshair shows for example 110, that is not 110 pips it is 11 pips.

101.The attached is a small sample of my back tests results on the EU 1 hr which I started some time ago. A representative sample would be at least 200 trades. Remeber that this is based on MY style of trading and may not be applicable to you, but it will give you an idea of the sort of information you should be gathering.

To explain the columns. First 4 are obvious.PIPS= Pips Profit. B/E=number of pips in profit before stop moved to B/E. STOP= size of stop loss used. RETRACE= Number of pips price retraced after entry

102.Scorps. Part of your problem appears to be that you are entering at the end of a swing, not the beginning. The average swing on a 1 hr will run from 5 - 8 candles so avoid entering after candle 3 - 4 unless there is a significant pullback to an area of S&R which would actually start a new swing anyway. I have marked up the attached.

I just copied this from my earlier response. Sorry lazy.

I have just pulled up a chart of AU and none of what you are saying makes any sense!!!!see attached. If you entered long at1.04918 price could not have gone against you 60 pips, the AU did not move that much. Post another chart and mark your entry and exit and remember that you are using a 5 digit broker so when you measure the price move and the crosshair shows for example 110, that is not 110 pips it is 11 pips.

I have to go now things to do.

103.This morning +28 pips PA Trade. I have marked the 5 min chart because it is easier to see all the reasons for the trade. Pure PA Trade. But 28 pips are 28 pips, doesn,t matter how you get them it is all money in the bank. I got in ahead of the 1 hr signal, but now we have to see if it will run. There are orders at the offer sitting in the 2970 - 2980 area and again at 1.3000 - 1.3010. With sell stops sitting around 1.3020. Where as offers at the bid are all sitting down below at 1.2920 - 1.2930 and again 1.2900 - 1.2905.

104.Didnt have time today to babysit trades, had to be some where else by 14.00 my time So a second PA Trade for +28 pips total 56 pips for the day nice example of a typical 123 trade, even if I do say so myself. But that 1 hr signal should have netted you all some nice pips by now.

105.What your made you take that trade?

Thanks in advance.Why dont you answer that question your self and then ask if your analysis is correct. You will learn a lot more, faster, by trying to work it out. Mark up a chart with your analysis. What is the worst that can happen??

Here are some cluesSupportDivergenceOBBRNTDI- Red & Green Yellow106.Extract: The 2 candles prior to the entry closed higher. The candle prior to the entry pulled back from a short term S&R but did not close lower than the candle before.107.The first red candle was "not" a clear rejection candle it did not close lower than the previous candle. A look at the 15 min chart gives you a clearer view. There was a recent minor S&R level just below. An entry below this would have been safer. However you were on the right track just a little premature, in my view. Your stop should have been just above the BRN as this was the strongest area of resistance not the swing high. However, you have to be prepared for price spikes, the open is notorious for it. Used to be called the LONDON Breakout, now I call it the London Fakeout. It is the big guys trying to sucker in the little guys like us. Hope it helps.

Just to add.

If you had gone short 2 pips below (on the 1 hr) the 2 green candle back, you would have completed what I call a 3 bar reversal which is normally a safe entry which would have been the same entry point as the minor S&R in this instance

108.I think I have mentioned 3 bar reversals before but never clarified what they are, so here are 3 graphics.

A Bullish bar is a candle that closed higher than it opened.A Bearish bar is a candle that closed lower than it opened.An Indecision bar is a candle that closed at or very near its open. Normally these are called Dojis or Spinning Tops. The important bit is that they imply a moment of indecision.A "Normal" bar is any candle whos body length is greater than the top and bottom wicks (shadows, tails) added together. They generally are about the same total length of the surrounding bars.A "Nasty" bar is any candle whos top and bottom wicks (shadows, tails) added together exceed the length of the body. Examples include Hanging Man, Hammer, Inverted Hammer, and Shooting Star. There are more named candles of this type, I cant remember them all. And imho, I dont need to. They all do the same thing, they indicate an abnormal situation. Theyre nasty.A Big Posterior Bar (BAB) is any candle whos total length is disproportionately larger than most of the other bars in its environment.

A quick note: Yes, I know the above definitions dont match the official definitions. I dont care, these are my rules. I know the following definition of a three bar reversal pattern probably doesnt match some official definition, again, I dont care, this is what works for me. This is the subjective part of trading. You have to find/create definitions that work for you, in the heat of battle, without having to take a lot of time to think Lets see, is that a Shooting Star or a Hanging Man or a Harami. By the time you figure it out, its probably too late (if youre a scalper). Its a nasty bar, somethings not normal, see it, act on it, and move on.

Ok, now down to business. ... I'll describe a three bar reversal pattern that would trigger an entry into a long position (just turn it upside down for a short)

Bar 1 - Must be a bearish normal bar.Bar2 Must be a bullish nasty (preferably) or an indecision bar (use tighter stop) with a lower low and a lower high than bar1. Perfection is that no portion of bar2s body is contained within Bar1s body.Bar3 Must be a bullish normal or bullish BAB with a higher low and a higher high than bar2. Perfection is if bar3s high is higher than Bar1s high and no portion of bar3s body is contained within bar2s body.

There are two types of triggers bars (bar4) with two types of entries each (aggressive/conservative):1) Bar3 is a normal bar:a. Aggressive Enter when bar4 breaks of the close of bar3 (dont have to wait for bar4 to close)b. Conservative Enter if bar4 closes higher than bar3s high.2) Bar3 is a BAB:a. Aggressive Enter anytime after bar4 breaks of the higher of bar1's or bar3's high and you realize bar4 is a BAB (dont have to wait for bar to close, keep your stop tight and get it in quick. These things can move quickly with or against you.)b. Conservative Enter if bar4 closes higher than the higher of bar1s or bar3's high (this can actually be kind of risky, I dont recommend it)

Combine the three bar reversal pattern with as many other tools as you can. These would include (though not limited to) bumping into support or resistance, touching your over/under moving average, hitting a fib line, etc.

Three bar reversal patterns often correspond to multi-tops/bottoms, look for them.

Beware of the of the Stop Run. Market makers will often run stops (google it) to obtain a better entry price for important customers. This will look very much like the end of a retracement with a three bar reversal pattern at its apex. However, having now run the stops, the market maker will then take the instrument into the direction of the retracement, creating a true trend reversal, and trapping those that entered because of a retracement ending pattern (ouch).

Somebody else drew the graphics but they will do for this explanation.

109.Back again for lunch. Wish I could have traded this today. I have harped on about not just looking at the Higher time frames and I know that there are those of you among us who consider lower time frames the "Devils Spawn" but look at what you could have been forewarned about if you had just glanced every now and then at a lower time frame, and that entry at the beginning of the day, I would kill for entries like that. Using divergence could have almost predicted every turn of todays market. I have never understood why some traders want to wear dark glasses on a cloudy day.

Ignore the macd at the bottom it is something I am trying out for my umbrella trades.

110.MUN: Hi guys

Just wanted to share my trade today for 25 pips, which I am very proud of.... :-)Here is my thought process.Although I saw the 1H cross of TDI + bearish divergence, I knew that there were some news about CHF at 8h30 (USD/CHF is highly correlated with EUR/USD), so I decided that I would not enter before the news event.After seeing the news candle after the event, I realized that the impulse leg was down.At that point I had 2 reasons to enter :- 1H TF TDI cross with divergence- Impulse leg on 15TF, breaking previous structure

The next step would be to enter in a retracement. Since its a Counter Trend, I prefer to enter like Dee (thanks Dee, sorry i have been sneaking in your charts to learn...) on the 15TF on a retracement to ensure that my SL is very tight.

Waited for 38.2% retracement and pulled the trigger.Take profit was below RN, where I had confluence with HTF support, Trendline and 127% extension of impulse leg.

Actual Drawdown was Zero (only the spread!)

Cheers

Munir

111.Long EU target is 1.3110 Im at B/E +5

UPDATE

Closed for +22 pips at 1.3098 following divergence.

112.Thanks for the kudos Munir, but the "Dee Methodology" is not mine, I do not know whose it is. It is a combination of the good old 123 and the Breakout Pullback methods. I did some back testing after I noticed that when the 2nd leg pullback of a 123 occurred with a S&R zone creating a Breakout Pullback that you were "almost" guaranteed a reversal continuation with out price coming back to retest your entry point which often occurrs during a normal 123. The down side of this entry method is that you are entering later therefore missing out on some pips. The upside is, particulary for the newer trader, is that you get an entry with a smaller stop loss, less risk, and using either market harmonics or Fib Expansions you have a very clearly defined target so you can work out your R/R to determine wether the trade is worth while for you. For those traders who are able to determine a reversal point (Top or Bottom) of a range this method will be less attractive, because they are better able to determine the reversal point they will actually have a much better entry and depending on the swing type they may also have a smaller risk, I have never been that good at identifying the top or bottom so this method is an acceptable compromise for me.

For those of you not familiar with the 123 swing trade, here are a couple of PDFs explaining it.113.Thanks for the kudos Munir, but the "Dee Methodology" is not mine, I do not know whose it is. It is a combination of the good old 123 and the Breakout Pullback methods. I did some back testing after I noticed that when the 2nd leg pullback of a 123 occurred with a S&R zone creating a Breakout Pullback that you were "almost" guaranteed a reversal continuation with out price coming back to retest your entry point which often occurrs during a normal 123. The down side of this entry method is that you are entering later therefore missing out on some pips. The upside is, particulary for the newer trader, is that you get an entry with a smaller stop loss, less risk, and using either market harmonics or Fib Expansions you have a very clearly defined target so you can work out your R/R to determine wether the trade is worth while for you. For those traders who are able to determine a reversal point (Top or Bottom) of a range this method will be less attractive, because they are better able to determine the reversal point they will actually have a much better entry and depending on the swing type they may also have a smaller risk, I have never been that good at identifying the top or bottom so this method is an acceptable compromise for me.114.NEVER follow some one elses rules for money mangement, it is a receipe for disaster. Their risk appetite will be completeley different from yours. The other problem is that the rules for a method were written at a time when market dynamics were different, unless of course the thread has just been started. End of lecture. Sorry. I back tested and found that a move to B/E +2 after price had moved +15 pips gave me an acceptable number of wins to B/Es, however, that back test was done 4 months ago and ever since then the market has been changing, again. Look at PHx62 trades he has reacted to the change by reducing his TP from 50 to 40 and now scalping for 20. This will not be a popular recommendation, but you need to back test to see what is acceptable for you, for now. You do not need to back test for months, just a couple of weeks so that you are testing with the current market dynamics.115.I would suggest that you might want to reduce your B/E point to +15 pips, particularly if you need to sleep and are unable to react to market signals, as you stated, or reduce your stop loss on a step basis e.g. stop reduces by 5 pips for every 5 pips in profit, what ever helps you sleep easier. Alternatively, do not go CT in a clearly trending market unless you can manage the trade personally.116.a couple of decades ago there was an advertisement in a national newspaper. "Never be plagued by flies again. 100% Guaranteed method" send a cheque or postal order for 2 pounds and 50 pence (includes p&p).

The people who responded, of which there were many, received 2 bricks and a leaflet explaining how to use the bricks.

The person who placed the advert was denounced as a fraudster and prosecuted, however, the prosecution failed because as long as you followed the instructions precisely the method was indeed 100% sucessfull. True story. Moral of the story: Keep it simple, stupid!117.3 scalps +10 +20 +20 the last one was the news. First one overnight pushed down to the 78.6 and rejected later on another push down creating a Higher low, no place left to go but up. Entered on the first candle after the TDI signal but aware that above was a former resistance so took +10 there. Price closed above resistance so another entry targeting 1.3280 former resistance. Price did not make it there and started to come back so I closed for +20. Waited for the news, slightly positive employment figure, low volume so expected an extreme reaction went with the flow for another +20 at 1.3280 my original target.

118.+ 65 pipsNothing to do with the S3, but everything to do with trading for money. 123 on the 1 hr and a smaller earlier 123 on the 15min.

119.3 ways of looking at Fridays price action, 1 hr, 15 min and just to annoy people a 5min. The hollow green and red arrows on the 5 min are the TDI crosses.

120.+15 +15 +70 = 100. Done for the day.

2 range trades for +30 pips and 1 TDI trade (sort of) for + 70pips, another typical 123 setup

It is amazing what you can do if you do not close your mind to the possibilities

121.Reading thru the posts of yesterdays trade and you all talk about closing the trade because of the red HAs. What you did was correct. However, none of you talked about re entering the trade, Why Not? There was a perfect Breakout Pullback 123 entry just above the RN 1.3050 which would have given you 40 pips. If you did not spot the range, the entry was still visible. Pullback from the 1 hr 50 ema to support at the RN 1.3050. If you do not use the 1hr 50ema. Pullback from a minor S&R level from the asian session to the RN 1.3050. Come on Guys. I have marked this on the EU 15 min chart because it is highly visible on the 15 min although it is not exactly hidden on the 1 hr.

122.2 trades +40 & +25 EU. First trade TDI bounce on 1 hr for +40. Second trade a 123 BOP on the 15 min for +25. Reasons for entry and exits are clearly marked on the charts.

EDIT. The white dashed line that price was also bouncing off is the Monthly Pivot, and just above a 78.6% fibo. Often when price "bounces off" an MA you will find something else behind it, Pivot, Fibonacci level or even a S&R level. If price bounces off an MA in isolation there is a very good chance that price will return and break through.

123.

124.I am going to be extremely contentious. Higher Time Frame, important for intra day trading?? Here are a Weekly, Daily, 4 Hr, 1Hr and 15 min charts. They all have a 200ema, 50 ema and a Trend line. Question! We are Intraday Traders trying to establish a bias for the day. From these charts are we in an uptrend, downtrend or consolidating?

125.Thank you once again Mr Draghi. Nice trade for +110 pips. I am definitely done for the day. Entry was classic TDI off S&R level and 38.2%Fib and D Pivot. TDI red & Green above MBL and good angle on R & G and Bounce on my Stochs. In other words many things saying "What you waiting for" Used the 123 Pullback on the 15 min to confirm entry.

126.Nothing confirms a reversal. Yet.

127.2 Opportunities. 1 x 40 Pips or 1 x 25 Pips or 1 x 40 + 1 x25 = 65 Pips. If you have been looking you should have found these 123 entries. The big one is visible on the Hourly, the 2 are visible on the 15 min. I have marked them up on the 5 min because they are clearer there.

128.Hi,

What was wrong with this entry?Is it obvious now? Your long entry was on the last candle to the right.

129.I am done for the day. 2 trades both taken on the 15 min chart. Shallow Cross of the TDI several candles back. First trade was a 123 formed below a S&R level and a double bottom. Waited for price to break thru the S&R level at 1.3280. PA gained momentum so stayed in the trade and targeted the 200 ema( 1hr 50 ema) TP following bounce from 200ema. +31 pips

2nd trade. Bounce trade from 200 ema and TDI cross down after touching the 68 level and coming back inside the volatility bands. Good angle on the green. Red and Green both turned down showing good momentum. My other MAs turned down confirming momentum. TP was + 50 pips just above BRN and the earlier Day low. I do not trade spot forex so I have marked these up on Metatrader so that you can more easily compare charts. Hope it helps.

130.How this morning shaped up using PA from yesterday to signal what was coming. Hope you all made these pips. 1st chart Hourly for analysis. 2nd chart 15 min for earlier entry and clarity.

131.Todays move was not a reversal it was a continuation, PA had only pulled back to the 38.2%, that does not really constitute a reversal. But, the 1.3250 BRN was support in both instances. Yesterday and today the 38.2% fibo and the 200 ema came into play adding strength to the support level.

132.Simple answers on the chart.

133.A little post mortem of E/U PA based on the 15 min chart around the 1.3340, 123 area. Something for the 123 traders to be aware of, this sort of thing can and does happen often. You have a bounce off Minor Support a Breakout thru the 200 ema and 1.3350 and 38% Fib. then a pullback to the 200 ema followed by a continuation Long. This gives you Breakout Pullback Continuation BPC. In this instance it was part of a HTF 123 reversal short so was less likely to be real, however, there are many scalpers who would scalp this sort of PA for 10 - 20 pips hoping to wrong side the short 123 traders.

134.+40pips +32pips. Any one get these two trades, both 123 entries 0n 15min chart 1st trade TDI confirmed. 2nd trade TDI bounce + Hidden Divergence on stochs

135.Sorry, I did not show this chart. This is divergence on the 1 hr following that ridiculus nose dive. The divergence drew my attention to the first trade which was more obvious on the 15 min chart I posted previously.

136.I place multiple Fibos on the chart and look for confluence. If one of the fibos has no confluence I take it off the chart to reduce the number of lines showing, e.g The first fibo at 2013.01.04 only produced confluence with the 2013.01.09 fibo at the 89% and 100% which was so far away from the price that it was not relevant. So, I leave on the chart Confluence fibos and the fibo closest to the PA. I tend to use the 4 hr chart for placing longer term fibos and the Trading time frame for placing trading fibos.

Hope it helps.

137.Hello Dee,

Would you consider the below a valid 123 pattern?The pullback is sitting on a Fib level which is also an ex Resistance level, turned in support.

Thank you in advance for your replyNo. If you look earlier at the swing low a 123 formed there first, confirming the reversal, however this could be a warning for a possible 123 forming on a Higher timeframe which would be a valid signal.

138.Typical Triangle

139.123 And Again this time short. The hourly TDI has not crossed yet but this gives you the heads up.

140.That is the text book entry. But as price did bounce from an S&R rejection level you could have taken an earlier entry. But, I stress, this is just a matter of risk tolerance.

141.Both divergences are valid. However, Regular divergence usually signals a change in trend. Hidden divergence usually signals a pullback within a trend.

142.Pennant on Daily 4 HR and 1Hr. Impossible to tell when it is going to Break.

143.I agree, However, check out the prior swing on this 4 hr chart. As to what will happen with this current one?? Above is a major resistance level, below is nothing but 200ema and BRNs until 1.3120. If you wanted to you could see other areas of S&R in between, in other words, "if it does this then that, if it does that then this etc etc etc etc."

EDITWould help if I attached the chart. DUH!!!

144.First of all I do not see that you made a mistake. At the moment you clearly lack confidence, That is not a crime, it is understandable, and it is a phase that we all go thru not just once but many times. Confidence comes with screen time, confidence comes with familiarity and experience. Stick with it, you are on the right track.

I have attached 3 charts. This is the sort of analysis you should do before taking a trade. 4 Hr chart. Pennant. Breakout Pullback Confirmation of the Pennant. Price target for a Pennant.

1 Hr Zoom out. Multiple Tests of S&R. PA is ranging, but, If I take the 123 entry it is only 20 pips to the S&R level, but, my stop would be 20 pips that gives me a 1:1 R/R, is that acceptable? The 123 is also a BPC of the Pennant.

1 hr zoom in. I will let you fill in the blanks here--------------------------

145.I personally have found the Stochastics set at 8,3,3, to show divergences much better than MACD or RSI, Look at the attached chart stochastics is showing both Regular divergence and Hidden Divergence, where as MACD has not shown either.

The choice of what you use is really a matter of personal preference. But put both on a chart on your preferred time frame and see which you prefer.

146.Spot On. You nailed it. Well done. You did not mention the Divergence but you got everything else.

I think some of the other guys got a bit confused, they are talking about the E/U but you traded the EUR/JPY

147.I do not have eur/jpy on my platform other wise I would have been trading it. But there were pips available on the eur/usd. When the market is ranging I use the 15 min, and I prefer all the information from standard bars. Today Divergence and S&R played a major part.

1st trade. Divergence. TDI pointing down. Entry at close of first red candle just 1 pip above BRN 3450. TDI crossed below 50 level. Very tight stop 10 pips because this is CT and short target 20 pips to minor support level. Bullish Divergence confirmed the exit.

2nd trade. Did not take the Bullish divergence because of the news. The news created a Pin Bar that bounced off minor support creating a Double Bottom. Bullish Divergence still in play and a prior cross of the TDI which had stayed pretty flat. Pin Bar created a TDI bounce and now Green & Red above Yellow, entered a few pips above the Pin Bar. Target was 5 pips below Prior resistance at 3480. Exit confirmed by Bearish Divergence.

3rd Trade. Bearisgh Divergence. Double Top. Pin Candle off 3480 Resistance. Price retraced back up the Pin Candle so took an entry at 3470. Tight stop at 3476, this is CT. Target 5 pips above support at 3430. TDI green turned down from the 68 level and continued to cross red. Confirming the trade.

Something to note. Not one of the divergences appeared on the TDI. This is why I use a stochastics it shows me what cycle we are in and clearly shows Divergence.

148.EUR/USD 15 min today. +20 +30 +35

149.For those who were not sure wether they should take the 2 trades on EUR/USD a look at the 15 min would have provided confirmation.

1st Trade short. Double Top with divergence and big Pin Bar off resistance. Good for +30 pips.

2nd Trade Long. Divergence at 50% fibo and support followed by 123 confirmed the reversal. Good for +50 pips

150.Another clue on the 4 hr what to expect. Previous Target for the Pennant had not yet been reached, still has not. Then a Bull flag. The market gives clues, you just need to find them. Elementary dear Watson

151.Here is a little point of interest for you especially the longer term traders on the 4hr charts. The TDI can tell you more than just when the Red and Green cross. There are areas of Support and Resistance within the indicator as well. Take a look at the attached charts a 4hr and Daily. I have marked with Green dashed horizontal lines areas of Resistance within the TDI, where the TDI bounces off one of those lines I have marked with a vertical blue line, check out what happens at these points time and time again. You will see some blue arrows these are areas where divergence formed.

The TDI can confirm that there is a reversal coming, not necessarily immeadiately, and by being aware of these support and resistance point, can give you the heads up days in advance helping with your Trade Plan. Naturally they often occur at the same time as Price reaches an S&R level so they act as additional confirmation. This sort of advance notice can lead to good pips 70 - 100 on the 4 hr and anything from 200 -500 on the daily.

This sort of analysis also works on other time frames

152.Yesterdays trade explanations on the chart. Marked up the 15 min because that is where I take my entries from.

First Trade. TDI coming up from OS almost vertically showing extreme upwards momentum, Div on 15 min, BRN, 38% fib and S&R. CT so moved stop to B/E when price hit 1.3500, Price blew thru 1HR 200 EMA, never in any danger of getting stopped out with this momentum. Target was the 89% Fib.

Second trade. Hidden Divergence on 1 Hr and Reg Divergence on 15 min, TDI cross down from OB 15min. 1Hr TDI outside the Bands S&R Level, 89% Fib and DOuble top on 1Hr and 15 min, very compelling, expected a pull back here. This could be a 123 formation so target is confluence BRN, 38%fib and 1hr 200 ema. HD confirms target.

third trade. NO brainer 123 on 1 Hr and 15min. Off BRN, 38%fib, 1 hr 200ema, Hidden Divergence. TDI cross on 15min and later on 1hr. Target BRN and 100% Expansion

The more reasons you can find to take a trade, the better. Write them down it helps you look for them.

153.Weekly chart analysis. Is this conclusive or should we check out something else??

Experienced traders do not respond, please.

154.Here is another way of looking at the weekly. This time there are no Heiken Ashi (synergy) bars to hide the PA, so the last bar is almost a bearish engulfing ( technically speaking it is not).

Shoktrader. You are a little loose with your patterns, the attached should help.

Every One. Do you think that the analysis of the weekly chart makes it clearer as to what you should be looking for in your Intra Day Trading?? or should we be considering some thing else?

155.Waiting for some confirmation was sensible. But.A look at the 15 min would have given you a clearer picture. A look at the 4 hr would have helped as well.

Double Bottom. Hidden Divergence. Rising Trend Line. Rising MBL close to 50 level. 2 opposite Pullback candles, the 1 & 2 legs of a 123. Price unable to pull away from the S&R level @ 1.3380 ish

156.EU +35pips CT. Typical 123 reversal. Entry at the 61.8% pullback of the 2-3 leg. Target was the 100% expansion of the 1-2 leg. TDI confirmed entry with a bounce from OB. This is on the 15 min chart. The hourly cross came far too late.

157.AB-CD. This shit works. +50 pips following the original rules for this pattern. Really, really tight stop, just in case I got it wrong 7 pip SL, price came within a couple of pips.

158.No. I entered at the 61.8% which was also the BRN 1.34500. I entered after the second candle tried to go up but failed creating a double top on the 15 min chart. The attached chart shows all the detail.

159.The earlier 123 was more relevant. Zoom Out (chart 2). Support level at 123.70ish. 89% fib. Confluence of 78% fib & 161.8% FEE of earlier 123. But so what. You made nice pips anyway. +70ish pips?

160.If you can not see it on the 1 hr. Look at the 15 min, it doesnt bite.

161.So, nothing to trade yesterday. 1Hr view. 15 min view. I saw at least 3 opportunities on the EU alone. What did you see?

162.

163.+40 +100 +24. Multiple choice or all or nothing.

164.Currently CT on the EU. First target for +21 been hit and stop to B/E

Update.Stop to B/E +10

Final Update. Closed last contract for +16. Will wait to see what our american cousins are going to do

165.This is what I saw that morning as I fired up my platform. I was not convinced either way and wanted to see a confirmed move in one direction or the other before taking a trade. The red arrows pin point what I was looking at. Why were you convinced it would go long??

166.167.Daily Trendline break, but day not finished yet. ABCD 100% completed. Carefull here with shorts. Watch the news.

168.Lets look at it another way, maybe it will be clearer to you.

169.

170.If you can not imagine a clock face, then download one of the many available and just put it on the chart as shown. This one shows the cross occurring at 2 minutes past 12 a really good angle for a long

171.I was obviously as clear as mud with my explanation, so to avoid any further possible confusion as to what time of day you should trade using the TDI, or what angle you should trade at, here is a chart that shows both the best time and the best Angle, in degrees as per a protractor. You should just be aware that my time zone is GMT +1. This could affect as to what time the Green Price line crosses the Red Signal Line in your time zone.

Hope it helps

172.TDI is more than just the sum of its parts. I know that Eelfranz moved away from some of the component parts of the TDI, but there was a reason that it was developed in the manner that it was. You can choose to ignore the following advice, it will not have a detrimental effect on your trading if you do. But if you are like me and find that you miss signals that occurr outside your trading time you have a couple of options for entries later.

1. Is the bounce of the Green on Red, which you are all familiar with.

2. Is the cross of the Green and Red over the Market Base Line. (example attached)

There are other options but I am not going to complicate matters by moving far away from the TMS method which is simple for a reason.

I am only suggesting this as I have found it to be very helpfull in making trading decisions. You may not find it so, it might just confuse you, I have had a number of years of working with the TDI so I am used to it. So ignore this if things are working for you as they are.

173.Questions we ask ourselves. Is it too late to enter. How long can I hold this trade. How far can the market go.

We have at our disposal a very usefull tool. Fibonnaci Expansions. "Not Extensions". We can use this to guage Market Dynamics other wise known as the ABCD. There is a simple fact that very very often the CD leg will be equal to the AB leg and this repeats constantly. Example attached.

How many times have you entered only to find that the market consolidates or worse retraces. Using the measured move will give you some idea if the market has reached one of these points.

There is much more involved in the ABCD pattern, there are plenty of threads here on FF covering this.

Hope this helps some one.

174.With or Without? Large or Small?

Trading Without Stoploss, are you really?? Mental stop! Margin Call! both are stop losses.

Large emergency stop loss. Is it a Stoploss or a comfort blanket? Does it contain a Mental Stop if so is it really a Large emergency stop?

Last swing High/Low StoplossR/R StoplossPercentage StopLoss2 x ATR StopLossAny other StopLoss.

I know someone who does not use a stoploss, their account is now much bigger than mine and they are still in business 7 years later. This sentence over simplifies what he does, he does cut losers so in a way he does use a stop loss.

I have tried all of the above and my comfort zone is using a Stoploss sooo tight that even a drop of water could not squeeze past. My entries are micro pips precise and I rarely take a loss. Breakeven Yes but not loss.

Mathematically Stoplosses are a hindrance to profitable trading, see attached PDF.

The real question is. "Are you a "3Ps Trader" (Professional, Proficient, Precise) if yes then SL is optional, if No then come back when you are.175.EU +40 +70 both taken on the 15 minute. Why? Because the 1hr and 4 hr were telling me not to bother getting out of bed. Reasons for entries and exits should be self evident. Do not worry I will not frighten you all too often by posting 15 minute charts, I usuallytake my signals from the 1 hr and enter using the 15 minute or sometimes even the 5 minute, oooohh!

2nd trade was obvious, big Pin Bar on the 1 hr & 4hr + Div at S&R with sales orders sitting at 3090 just below BRN 3100. In other words lots of compelling reasons to go short.

176.The News.. Something that was invented by the brokers and the banks just to take your hard earned money..

If you do not know how to trade the news, then leave it alone. BUT, what was wrong with the attached trade, the initial news spike was over and sentiment was clear. If you were reading PASR why would you not have taken these trades. Price rejected the previous high and descending trend line, which incidentally, was top of the Pennant clearly visible on the daily and the 4 hr. i do not have EJ available on my platform I wish I did. But I did take an identical trade short on EU and Banked 100 pips.

So quake in your shoes before and during the news, but after, get on with it!

177.Is this a chart that is trying to tell you something. It does not take long to mark up a chart. 5 seconds for the Fibonacci and approx 10 seconds for each of the trend lines. So 25 seconds to create something that has been valid for 16 days possibly a few more.

178.Mixed messages. Support at BRN + Confluence at 61.8% but Divergences and OB with rejection at Resistance above at 78.6%

179.+50 +13 +20 +18 +BE +35 +16 +25 = 177 pips on EU today. First signal I missed. 2nd signal I reversed because it was to close to the fibo and MA. The 3rd signal I reversed because it did not agree with my filters. The BE I closed because it was against my filters and in hindsight I should not have taken it.

Nice Indi RobDee, I use the 123 reversal everyday in my trading, have done for years. But there is no doubt that this works very well provided a good filter is used, I use the TDI and stochastics from the TMS method along with Fibos and the 50 and 200EMA.

The second chart I have marked up with the 123s as I saw them. matches up pretty well.

Thanks Robdee. Shame the thread died.

180.Here is one in progress. SL is at B/E so it can do what it wants. But this Indi does work if you know how to filter it.

181.Would you look at that! Just kissed the TP but didnt fill it. Ill leave it see if it squeezes down another couple of pips. Although the Oscillators are showing a potential turn back up.

182.Thats number 3 in the bank. +20 +25 +20 = +65 pips today so far.

183.Last one for today +20pips. Didnt take the signal straight away because of the news. Used the 100% expansion for the TP.

txfx. It is not rocket science, put the Oscillators on a chart then mark the signals with a vertical line. Do the oscillators agree with the signal. Is there divergence. Does everything agree, if not then pass and wait for the next one. Look at the first signal, LH edge of the shaded area, BRN very near, Oscillators in OS and possible Bullish Divergence, is this a good short signal? Just repeat this exercise for each signal. It significantly reduces the number of losers.

184.EU short +25pips Long +90 pips = 115pips today using 123patternsV6

185.Let the chart tell you where price is going, Looking Left, will give you clues. But if in doubt, 123 patterns follow Market Harmonics CD = AB.I also use the premise that if price pulls back (Leg 2 - 3) to 38% Fib then it is likely the expansion will reach the 161.8% Expansion unless there is something bigger in the way like a major S&R Level, like wise the pullback to the 50% Fib is likely to expand to the 127% Expansion.I have attached 2 charts for todays trades, they should make it more obvious.

186.EU +62 +90 = 152 pips today.

I prefer V6. V7 works well but some how V6 seems to be a little better.

Is no one else trading this method??

187.Really intrigued by your use of the TDI this way. If you could, would you PM me with the details of your rules for this method and what your experience has been to date using this set up.

Many thanks

188.hey Dee50 What time frame do you monitor for 123 set ups? 1 minute charts? 5 minute charts? both? thanks! PGPB

5 minute, 15 minute, 1 hour. Too many false signals on the 1 minute and until I can work out a better filter I am leaving it alone.189.EU +45pips news related but taken on the 123. Support confirmed by Trend Line see chart 2. TP was 100% Expansion because it was a news related trade. Notice how the TDI and Stochs were OB confirming Profit Target. A second trade may shape up later.

190.EU +45 +43 = 88 pips for today. Thats me finished. second trade did materialize as expected

191.For those of you with regular day jobs, who have difficulty trading the lower TFs have a look at the HTFs. Here are Daily and 4 Hr charts. The 123 concept works on any TF and the rules and target expectations remain the same. How many pips can you see on these charts. Most of them would be gained whilst you were at work or even asleep. Just remember you need to use a good Money Management technique and/or a good Money Manager EA.

192.Confirmation of the Reversal off the Low of the Day. Rejection from the 38.2% Fibo and a failure of a second attempt at the low of the day and Hidden Divergence Confirm what sidefx was saying, the 123 gave an early indication of the change the rest confirmed it.

193.+ 50 pips EU off the NFP news. I am done for the day. There may be more pips in the offing but I have earn t enough this week so I will have an early weekend

194.EU +35 +30 =65 pips today. I was busy this morning so came to the table late. But the pips come to those who wait. If the chart looks different it is because I changed "Show all lines" to false

195.EU +35pips. I recorded this trade as a video, if I can work out how to use the software I will try and post my trades as videos or at least some of them.

196.EJ +165 pips. On other threads traders are pulling in good pips from the eur/jpy, so I thought I would give it a go earlier today. Dont know if i was just lucky or what. Looks like I might have to take trading more seriously.

197.eur/jpy +76 pips. Now I see why so many traders are trading the eur/jpy, it just wants to give you those pips. this is how the eur/usd used to be, you had to be a real dipstick not to make money.

198.I am most impressed with your exits. You steal almost all the pips. :O)

Thanks, but there is no special talent here. I use the expansion tool, targets are the 127% or the 161%. Leave the trade alone, walk away, until it hits your TP or Stop which ever is the first, that is actually the hardest part. I used to fiddle and adjust my TP all the time, the stress was killing me, now I leave it alone. I only interfere if PA or the indis tell me it is over. I manage the trade only until I have moved the stop to B/E after that I often leave the computer and go and potter about in my vegetable patch.199.Last one today just been hit. EU +45 pips.

200.EU +75 pips. I closed the trade at the 127% Expansion my initial target was the 161% but Price movement down has been so slow today, that I nearly lost the will to keep on living. Entry was early in the day following Pin bars in 3 TFs with a small 123 pullback giving the entry. If I had waited and taken the signaled 123 I would still have made 50 pips. Nothing valid on the EJ today.

201.EU +40 pips + EJ +40 pips = 80 pips for today. Every one a 123. Notice how I am using the target from a larger 123 for my TPs. Do not be afraid to try this, the worst that can happen is that price will not reach your extended target and you will have to B/E.

202.They are 123 points, you will probably have noticed by now that the 123 Indi does not identify all the 123s, and I do not choose my trades based on the indi, I choose my trades based on what 3 time frames are showing me. The fact that my trades coincide with the 123 Ind just goes to show how good it is. As for how I determine my TP, I do not use the Fib Expansion In isolation. I hope the attached chart explains it. I look for Confluence of Fibs & S&R where price has been before, is price reacting to the fib levels. That is how I determine my initial TP, if another 123 forms after my entry I measure the Expansion and see if it agrees with my initial assessment. If I have missed the entry for a larger 123 I measure the expansion from the previous formation. I base this on the fact that the larger the 123 formation is, the more relevant it is because it will also be visible on the Higher Time frames so more traders will be reacting to it.

203.AU +60 pips. Took this trade on my Futures account. A mixed trade using a BPC and 123 combination for the entry. BPC = Breakout Pullback Continuation. I do not need to explain this, do I?

204.EU +50 pips. So simple even I can make money. 123 off support followed by 123 break of resistance confirming momentum long. Does not get much easier.

I really do not understand why more traders are not trading this pattern, one of the oldest, most reliable patterns that there is. And yet, the threads here on FF and other forums about the 123, are short lived. Traffic light methods run for years with only mediocre success. Aint folks queer?

205.Here to here

206.EU +30 pips. Another no brainer off support. Opportunities on other pairs as well today, but this will do for today.

207.I used to have lots of losses, years ago, I believed the crap that losses are part of trading and you should accept them, but I wasnt making any money with that attitude, now, I do not like losses!! I close for B/E or a small loss, if I have to, and then re enter if price turns and continues. I see no need to hold a trade until my stop loss is hit, I actually think that that is one of the most stupid things to do in trading. If my entry is wrong, I get out.If you pick your entry correctly there should be no need to take a loss.I never ever let a winner turn into a loser.I like the 123 entry off Support or Resistance because price will move far enough to guarantee a profit or at least a safe exit.I limit myself to no more than 2-3 trades per day, reduces my exposure to risk and reduces the chance of an impulse trade. Unless I am feeling playful.I have learned to be patient and wait for right setup.I pass on trades that I am not 100% confident about.208.For the first 2 years I was shit. Then the next 2 years I improved. The last 3 years I have really made money and each year I have gotte