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Debate Info

no yes

Debate Score 60

Arguments 37

Total Votes 92Show More Stats

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yes (35) No (16) Too many variables (1)

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How does this debate work Show Debate Quick Tips Popular Debates Will global warming kill us (this is only for those who believe in global

warming) Should parental consent be required for underage pregnant women to haveabortions Should In God We Trust remain the USAs motto

end is more important than means

noSide Score 26

Add New Argument

yesSide Score 34

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Spoonerism(237) sw8princezz(1)



2 pointsNo results are not the only thing thatmatters

If we followed this maxim then cheatingyour way through school but graduating asvaledictorian would be fine The end is justified

The way you achieve something is asimportant as the end result I think thissaying was created in order to justifyunjustifiable actions as a way of ignoringethical obligations and getting away with it

Unfortunately it simply doesnt work

16 days ago | Tagged As NoSupport | Dispute

uarr Hide Replies

prince(3) Disputed

2 pointsi cant understand how my worthy opponentfails to see the difference between the justification of the mean on the basis of theend obtained and the importance to the end

for eg america used nuclear weapons to winthe war THE END IS ALWAYS GIVENIMPORTANCE IN THE WAR LIKE THATgt NOTTHE MEAN USED BUT IT IS FAR FROM

JUSTICICATION OF THE MISUSE OFNUCLEAR ENERGY

3 days ago | Tagged As yesSupport | Dispute

uarr Hide Replies

Spoonerism(237) Disputed

2 points

The end unlike the cheese does not standalone It was the result of some previousaction(s) taken So the importance of the

end cannot be considered alone It is equallyimportant to be moral in the means bywhich you achieve something as the endwhich you sought

If it were true that the end were moreimportant than the means then terrorismought to be perfectly acceptable Afterallthe end is what matters

2 pointssee in this result oriented whai is matter is thegoal not the path i knw its against ethicsbut if you follow ethics you will lag behind therace


anoop(12)

2 pointsyes end is more important than meansbecause we do all the things for the end or wecan say good results but not for watchingwhat essential and important things havebeen used eg our parents do many thingsfor us but they use several things without

caring that what they have used Insteadthey know that what they have used willsurely give a good end


uarr Hide Replies

Kuklapolitan(3685) Disputed

1 pointAnd if your parents beat you into submissionis that a good means to an end of doing well

in school or other places No its not Youregoing on the assumption that everyones journey is a good one a fair one and not anunjust one Thats just wrong because somepeople will step all over others to get whatthey want All they care about is the endresult and not the means it took to get there

1 day 16hrs ago | Tagged As NoSupport | Dispute

phoenix(2)

2 pointsi strongly feel that end is far more importantthan the means used to obtain the result thepoint is clearly evident from the fact thatwhen you join a new schoolor make a newfriend one of the questions that they will poseis What u want to become in the future andnot how u want to become like that As statedby my friend in this competitive world the



The reason I brought up the justificationargument is that the original quote byMachiavelli is The end justifies the meansso I was really only bringing it up in order to dispute the saying itself


chitransh(1)

2 pointswhen we walk through in our life by takingmeans then only we will reach the endsuchthat means are important in life


uarr Hide Replies

anoop(12) Disputed

1 pointBut we will not talk about the means till wedo not even think about the end Supposeyou are climbing over the Mt Everest butyou would only talk about the used means in that when you would make it definite thatwhat your actual aim is and what do youactually want to achieve

1 day 23hrs ago | Tagged As yesSupport | Dispute

deepishm

2 pointslife is built on certain ethicsmoralsvaluwesdivine justice

have my opponents made up their mind tosacrifice this for the end


deepishm

2 pointsone of my opponents says krishna hasfollowed some unfair means let me tell myfriend he wants to teach people unfairmeans is always unfair and it must beavoided at any cost

he also makes the point whether one will be

destination of your journey is important notthe path taken


nagtroll(255)

2 points

Yes the end is the whole point Without anend the means dont matter Look at thegreat winners of the world Do they care whatit took to get there Did they let anything getin their way or slow them down No ArnoldSchwarzenegger is a winner and he did whatit took to get there It was very difficult andhe put in a lot of work but in the end it allpaid off And he didnt have to kill anyone toget there either He made personal sacrifices

in order to get there But in the end he was awinner because of it


ARNAB9(1)

2 pointsYES END IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THEMEANS SUPPOSE U HAVE A LOT OF BOOKSIN UR TABLE BUT IF U DONT WANT TOSTUDY THAN THERE IS NO USE TO HAVE

THEM5 days ago | Tagged As yes

Support | Dispute

phoenix(2)

2 pointsPhilosophically it may be right to say thatmeans used is important but innot practical life

it is highly impossible to give preference tothe means alone How many of you use thesincere means at every point of ur life

In this contemporary world if you keepgiving preference to the meansnot alone

without any estimation about your end theneven after a lot of hardships you will findyourself in the middle of no where Then if you turn back to your past you will find onlyblank spaces instead of success

5 days ago | Tagged As yes



ready to taste failure after hardwork

what absurdity it is hard work will nevertake you to failure is he ready to followunfair means in the exams to get goodmarks

Krishnas words are very clear if you workhard you need not look for the fruit it willcome itself


uarr Hide Replies

prince(3) Disputed

1 pointdear deepishm

ur comment to rebut my teammate is not

meaningful-krishna did not teach any onewhat u said but he taught that according tothe situation u will have to shift urpreference he wanted to show that evilmust be supressed at anycost

1 day ago | Tagged As yesSupport | Dispute

deepishm

2 pointsi want to ask my one of my opponents who

mentioned about scientistshe says scientistsset their goals and work towards it dideinstein set his goaldid newton set his goalfirst


uarr Hide Replies

anoop(12) Disputed

1 pointbut that was an unexpected case and the

mean would not have been so important if Newton had not put it to the goal to the useand to the END Thus the importance of themean is dependent on the end


Warlin(411)

Support | Dispute

antim1

2 pointsWilliam Shakespeare saidAlls well that ends

wellSoof all the cases in the world the endof everything decides whether it is good orbadIf we have to achieve success in life wehave to fix the goal and act accordinglyForexamplemany philosophers and scientistsfirst decided their aim and went ondiscovering many valuable things

If my competitors argue thatin gita Krishnasaid that we should keep on working hard notexpecting any endthen i would like to saythat the saying is totally impractical and cantbe used in this fast moving 21st century

I would like to rebut that Lord Krishna himself at times used unfair means in the warbecause he was determined to win the war

In case of the exams you yourselvesappearwould you like to fail after doing a lotof hard worknoso it proves that if endis good every thing is good

lets take this argument as an exampleif youhave given your comments then leave this siteand let me alone enjoy the points providedHaha ha


phoenix(2)

2 pointsLet me take you to the ages of mahatmagandhi he gave a lot of importance to themeans But let me remind you all that duringthe chauri chaura incident India enjoyed themaximum advantage and to be precise indiawould have driven out the britishers out of our

land if gandhi had not called off thismovement That was a tremendous mistakemade by mahatma or india would have beenpest free long before 1947 and by now itmight have made a lot of economical andbiologial progess




1 pointSituations Situations

There are way too many variables left out of these little sayings Like what IS the endand what ARE the means If killing someonewould save the whole world does it justifythe end-is the end more important MaybeBut what if you killed someone to save yourbaseball card collection Then is the endmore important than the means

As far as these concept goes its impossibleto tag one thing as more important than theother because the means may have moreimpact than the end or vice versa

33 days ago | Tagged As Too manyvariables

Support | Dispute

uarr Hide Replies Kuklapolitan(3685) Supported

1 pointYou wrote it as I would have Warlinrighton```````````````````````````````````


aniketjoshi(1)

1 pointWithout Means it may be correct or incorrect the aim cannot be achieved to reach to theend we need to start


uarr Hide Replies

anoop(12) Disputed

1 pointactually ankit joshi is wrong because though

we need a starting but we work and use themeans for a definite destination and thatdestination is the end And I would like toremind one thing to you that it has beensaid that end is more important than themeans but it has not been said that meansis not important Only the comparison hasbeen made

aadilbrar(1)

1 pointyes end is more important than the meansbecause most of the people in against it take

the support of lame civilization world if youwant to be remembered you can do anythinggood or bad


Praty(1)

1 pointAs my allies have said it is no point in sayingthat means justify the ends in 21st centuryHenry Wadsworth has said we judge

ourselves by what we feel we could do whileothers judge us by what we have alreadydone no matter how we did it To support hisview let us take the example of China Chinaschild policy Olympics forced recruitment youall will say are big infringements of individualrights indeed they are but they have givenchina a strategic position in the worldWhatever expressions of China we form todaywill all be faded soon when China will becomethe next SUPERPOWER of the world


Support | Dispute anoop(12)

1 pointIf one doesnt even knows that what is the endof a work or the used means then what is theimportance of the used means We use theresources but we identify them when we usethem Till they do not come in our use we arenot able to know them and thus they have noidentity of their own

1 day 23hrs ago | Tagged As yesSupport | Dispute Add New Argument




uarr Hide Replies


1 pointI believe the means are the most importantfactors of the journey to the end People cando some pretty mean things in order to getto the end they wish to reach Therefore themeans are the most important steps you cantake to reach a good end


darr Show Replies

vaish(1)

1 pointIf we take values morals ethics intoaccount and count it more towards thespiritual way then means definetly becomesthe most important factor Its natural foreveryone to look back at where they comefrom and want to show their struggles This justifies the importance of means

True good is never achieved by the doing of evil- Adolf Hitler is an EXAMPLE

19 days ago | Tagged As No

Support | Dispute

athulya(1)

1 pointthe road of life twists and turnsno twodirections are same yet our lesson comesfrom the journey not the destination


uarr Hide Replies

anoop(12) Disputed

1 pointbut the lessons from the road which we getis due to the journey but we start that journey just to get the destination




joecavalry(7054)

1 pointThink of it like a movie The end may besensational but there are only a few movies

where the end is sensational and when it isit is due to the special effects which is of course the means So the means is moreimportant )


uarr Hide Replies

anoop(12) Disputed

1 pointThis is a very surprising point and I have a

strong point against that No movie finisheswithout an end and about the special effectsby the means actually we cannot use themtill we are moving towards the end So endhas already made a pathway for the othersto came and means are just the sources tofollow that path and nothing else


aditi26(1)

1 pointi think end is not as much as important thanmeans

because if our means are not right than howour end or goal is pure

if we lack in means we are unable toachieve specific ends


uarr Hide Replies

anoop(12) Disputed

1 pointBut you can even see the examples of thosechildren who are not having great means butare still going well and are achieving thosegoals that a person having total means isnot being able to achieve




Support | Dispute

Banshee(131)

1 pointIn every war every act of oppression every

instigation of genocide every institution of slavery have we not always argued thatthe ends would justify the atrocities of themeans And did they

Ends Promoting democracy

Means Vietnam War

Ends Increasing material resource trade toEurope

Means Apartheid

Ends Preparing a young person to bemarried

Means Genital mutlilation

Ends Exploration of New World

Means Genocide and forced relocations of Native peoples

Ends Healthy economy of southern statesMeans Slavery

I agree with Spooner - the saying the ends justify the means is all-too-often an excuseto disregard ethics and to attempt to justifythe unjustifiable by slapping a platitude onit


martianmonk(1)

1 pointThe means is much much more importantthan the end suppose you want to be theperson with the top marks in class orcollege what you need to do is study reallyhard but instead the common practice iscopying or peeking if found out this can



lead to your failure in not only the exam butalso in life you will become known as arowdy why not avoid all that and just rectifyyour means for reaching a desirable endafter all you know the old sayingprevention is much better than cure


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Please do not take examples of toilet or your bathroomTry to make thedebate more seriousthese are my views on the topic-Why the Means to the end is more important than the end

That is how you try and realize a goal or desire will have a big impact on the scope of theoutcome Ok lets use something simple and more understandable to try and explain whatwe mean first Lets say hypothetically that four people all have the same emotionaltrauma that prevents them from letting someone (anyone) be intimate with them Aftersometime each decides they want to move on from this restriction They each take adifferent route to do this

The first sees their doctor and gets a prescription which relaxes them releases them fromsome inhibitions and makes them less anxious

The second goes to a homeopath who they see for six months and feel very much betterthey are much more open and more comfortable getting closer to someone

The third goes to an healer who is intent on making people feel better Here their



symptoms disappear for a while but after a few days or weeks they return requiring thatthey continue the treatment to remain stabilized

The fourth goes for some deep transformational work They have periods during this workwhere they feel much more uncomfortable as they are facilitated to explore and reflectduring their sessions but after a few months they feel completely cleared of this issue

Now we would say that all of these are successful solutions But lets look at these moreclosely

The first has to continue taking medication as without they are prone to panic attackswhen in their new relationship You could say that this is a surface solution which iscontrolling the symptoms but has in no way resolved the original trauma

The second has been released from the disabling patterns held within their currentincarnate form so they continue without problems in this existence However from amultidimensional perspective the trauma may originate in another existence and comeback when they re-incarnate the next time If the trauma originated from this lifetimethen there would be a good chance that it would be completely cleared with thisapproach

The third is fairly typical of much of the energy work happening today where the intent isto help people feel better but again does not facilitate exploring or resolving the originalcause Many energy workers and healers are unknowingly (accepting at face value what issaid about their form of energy work) facilitating people by either pushing traumasdeeper into the energy body or of actually sealing the traumas away in an attempt toprevent them from arising Again this is a solution but it is a solution which makes itmuch more difficult for the soul to resolve that original trauma in the future - the traumais now less obvious and more hidden It is also stressing the energy bodies of the personas energy is required to keep it hidden and sealed which can lead to more problems infuture incarnations

The fourth facilitates the person to resolve and fully release the original eitherconsciously or indirectly This frees their soul from all further manifestations of thistrauma It is effectively resolved completely This approach generally takes the client intouncomfortable areas and is therefore not as nice or gentle as many people would eitherlike want or actually understand

Resolving some of our own traumas has taken a long time simply because we haveneeded to understand the above with regards everything that we do For example afavourite solution I used in other existences was to hide or bury traumas and suppressfeelings to such an extent that it was no longer feasible to continue doing the same - theenergy debt was simply too much The weight of this baggage itself was becoming atrauma

Limited quick fix surface means to an end solutions are also a reflection of manycultures on earth today The saying - why do today what you can put off until tomorrowsums it up perfectly Hence many of the established and readily chosen solutions as

described above are the most limiting and short term while those offering a complete orlasting resolution require a degree of discomfort effort self reflection and time to bring tocompletion

This pattern is in everything that we do Many people are very tired depressed drainedand spent simply because they wish to continue with the comfortable but limitedsolutions not understanding that it is often these that are responsible for how they feel inthe first place

Although we have focused on an emotional challenge causing life restrictions here We



could very easily do the same thing with regards spiritual approaches where outcome ismore important than either the means or intention held to that drives the means Read

the That is how you try and realize a goal or desire will have a big impact on thescope of the outcome Ok lets use something simple and more understandable to tryand explain what we mean first Lets say hypothetically that four people all have thesame emotional trauma that prevents them from letting someone (anyone) be

intimate with them After sometime each decides they want to move on from thisrestriction They each take a different route to do this bull The first sees their doctor and gets a prescription which relaxes them

releases them from some inhibitions and makes them less anxious bull The second goes to a homeopath who they see for six months and feel

very much better they are much more open and more comfortablegetting closer to someone

bull The third goes to an healer who is intent on making people feel

better Here their symptoms disappear for a while but after a fewdays or weeks they return requiring that they continue the treatmentto remain stabilized

bull The fourth goes for some deep transformational work They have

periods during this work where they feel much more uncomfortable asthey are facilitated to explore and reflect during their sessions butafter a few months they feel completely cleared of this issue

Now we would say that all of these are successful solutions But lets look at thesemore closely

bull The first has to continue taking medication as without they are prone

to panic attacks when in their new relationship You could say that thisis a surface solution which is controlling the symptoms but has in noway resolved the original trauma

bull The second has been released from the disabling patterns held within

their current incarnate form so they continue without problems in thisexistence However from a multidimensional perspective the traumamay originate in another existence and come back when they re-incarnate the next time If the trauma originated from this lifetimethen there would be a good chance that it would be completely clearedwith this approach

bull The third is fairly typical of much of the energy work happening today

where the intent is to help people feel better but again does notfacilitate exploring or resolving the original cause Many energyworkers and healers are unknowingly (accepting at face value what issaid about their form of energy work) facilitating people by eitherpushing traumas deeper into the energy body or of actually sealing the

traumas away in an attempt to prevent them from arising Again thisis a solution but it is a solution which makes it much more difficult forthe soul to resolve that original trauma in the future - the trauma isnow less obvious and more hidden It is also stressing the energybodies of the person as energy is required to keep it hidden and sealedwhich can lead to more problems in future incarnations

bull The fourth facilitates the person to resolve and fully release the

original either consciously or indirectly This frees their soul from allfurther manifestations of this trauma It is effectively resolved



completely This approach generally takes the client into uncomfortableareas and is therefore not as nice or gentle as many people wouldeither like want or actually understand

Resolving some of our own traumas has taken a long time simply because we haveneeded to understand the above with regards everything that we do For example a

favourite solution I used in other existences was to hide or bury traumas andsuppress feelings to such an extent that it was no longer feasible to continue doingthe same - the energy debt was simply too much The weight of this baggage itself was becoming a trauma

Limited quick fix surface means to an end solutions are also a reflection of manycultures on earth today The saying - why do today what you can put off untiltomorrow sums it up perfectly Hence many of the established and readily chosensolutions as described above are the most limiting and short term while thoseoffering a complete or lasting resolution require a degree of discomfort effort self reflection and time to bring to completion

This pattern is in everything that we do Many people are very tired depresseddrained and spent simply because they wish to continue with the comfortable butlimited solutions not understanding that it is often these that are responsible forhow they feel in the first place

Although we have focused on an emotional challenge causing life restrictions hereWe could very easily do the same thing with regards spiritual approaches whereoutcome is more important than either the means or intention held to that drives themeans Read the other articles for more on these

other articles for more on these



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Debate Score 60

Arguments 37

Total Votes 92Show More Stats

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joecavalry(7054)




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anoop(12) Disputed




aditi26(1)





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anoop(12) Disputed





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Banshee(131)




Means Vietnam War


Means Apartheid








martianmonk(1)






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prince(3) Disputed





deepishm




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anoop(12) Disputed




Warlin(411)

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antim1








phoenix(2)










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aniketjoshi(1)



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anoop(12) Disputed



aadilbrar(1)




Praty(1)










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vaish(1)




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athulya(1)



uarr Hide Replies

anoop(12) Disputed





joecavalry(7054)




uarr Hide Replies

anoop(12) Disputed




aditi26(1)





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anoop(12) Disputed





Support | Dispute

Banshee(131)




Means Vietnam War


Means Apartheid








martianmonk(1)






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aniketjoshi(1)



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anoop(12) Disputed



aadilbrar(1)




Praty(1)










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darr Show Replies

vaish(1)




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athulya(1)



uarr Hide Replies

anoop(12) Disputed





joecavalry(7054)




uarr Hide Replies

anoop(12) Disputed




aditi26(1)





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anoop(12) Disputed





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Banshee(131)




Means Vietnam War


Means Apartheid








martianmonk(1)






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uarr Hide Replies




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vaish(1)




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athulya(1)



uarr Hide Replies

anoop(12) Disputed





joecavalry(7054)




uarr Hide Replies

anoop(12) Disputed




aditi26(1)





uarr Hide Replies

anoop(12) Disputed





Support | Dispute

Banshee(131)




Means Vietnam War


Means Apartheid








martianmonk(1)






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joecavalry(7054)




uarr Hide Replies

anoop(12) Disputed




aditi26(1)





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anoop(12) Disputed





Support | Dispute

Banshee(131)




Means Vietnam War


Means Apartheid








martianmonk(1)






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Support | Dispute

Banshee(131)




Means Vietnam War


Means Apartheid








martianmonk(1)






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Debates mohit

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