Archive Session 158

7/28/2019 Archive Session 158

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UKedchat Archive 4 th July 2013Hosted by @UKedchat

Does the curriculum representsocietys educational aspirations for

its citizens?

20:00:14 @ukedchatGood evening, and welcome to #ukedchat this evening.Please remember to use #ukedchat and avoid the@ukedchat account

20:00:16 @ukedchatIt was close, but the topic for the chat is " Does thecurriculum represent societys educational aspirations for its citizens? #ukedchat

20:00:56 @ukedchat.@ICTMagic will be collecting the archive, so pleaseremember to include the #ukedchat hash tag in your tweets.

20:02:13 @SurrealAnarchy #ukedchat what are society's educational aspirations for its citizens?

20:02:28 @mrpeel #ukedchat: a curious idea that there might be anidentifiable single form of society?

20:02:58 @ukedchatWould like to explore whether curriculum is relevant,differentiated, personalised, progressive & effective?#ukedchat

20:03:05 @ukedchat .@mrpeel So, is the government best placed to dictate acurriculum then? #ukedchat

20:03:45 @ukedchat@SurrealAnarchy To have productive citizens who cancontribute to society? #ukedchat

20:04:02 @MrVogtSS@MrBoneY5 Google Docs. More control over sharing andease of posting and viewing. #ukedchat

20:04:04 @mrpeel#ukedchat surely any curriculum imposed from the centreis doomed to be generalised rather than targetted? Bothends of society are marginal

20:04:27 @ukedchat @mrpeel So why do politicians continue to interfere then?#ukedchat

20:04:45 @travelgeordieSociety and curriculum should aim for equality inter generational solidarity and environmentally aware decentcitizens #ukedchat

20:04:49 @ukedchat @travelgeordie Ideally, yes. How is this acheived?

#ukedchat20:04:52 @rpwillan #ukedchat good grades and employability?

20:05:18 @mrpeel@ukedchat because that is their job and they want tomake an impact. #ukedchat meanwhile pvt and grammar often leave the system and 1/2

20:05:25 @ukedchat@nohandsup Speaking more in general terms, rather thanpolitical terms #ukedchat

20:06:40 @SurrealAnarchy#ukedchat is society a realisation of citizens & their aspirations or an imposition of aspirations onto its

citizens?20:06:47 @ukedchat @rpwillan Grades in what? #ukedchat

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its citizens?

20:07:05 @bartoneducation#UKedchat curriculum defined by gov of the day. Tends tobe focused on cultural elite and therefore useless in realworld.

20:07:06 @mrpeel@ukedchat #ukedchat the ess academic in society arenot served becaue of the lack of true vocational andaspirational relevant courses

20:07:38 @HFletcherWood@travelgeordie I agree. But how do we account for thelarge % of citizens who don't share those aims?#ukedchat

20:07:39 @travelgeordie #ukedchat encouraging students disruptive and audaciousthinking. Cross curricular and lateral thinking

20:07:50 @ukedchat@bartoneducation Indeed. The curriculum is designed bypeople who were successful in academic education. Itworked for them! #ukedchat

20:08:11 @nohandsup @ukedchat @mrpeel Does 'society' have any realinfluence over the curric? #ukedchat

20:08:13 @LessonToolbox

MT-Break down of blooms- for students/staff by@ASTsupportAAlihttp://cheneyagilitytoolkit.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/blooming-bloom.html #ukedchat #nqtchat #blooms #learning#teaching #aft

20:08:37 @lefouquewhere are you aiming? http://bit.ly/12C6Z48 #ukedchat

#gifted

20:08:43 @rpwillan@ukedchat academic subjects #ukedchat but need toproduce better employability skills. Not saying it doesnow, but should. Keep it simple

20:09:04 @ethinking#ukedchat this is fun! Your first issue is to establish whatis a curriculum and why one is needed

20:09:11 @SurrealAnarchy #ukedchat @bartoneducation to be fair cultural elite dolive in the 'real world'

20:09:18 @ukedchat

@rpwillan Ok, but where does vocational learning sit

within academic grades? We cannot have a society full of academics #ukedchat20:09:36 @ethinking #ukedchat who has a right to direct the learning if a child?20:09:49 @ukedchat @ethinking Welcome back #ukedchat20:09:57 @mrpeel @ethinking #ukedchat surely it is to define society?

20:09:58 @ethinking#ukedchat should families decide the curriculum andteachers enable the learning agreed with the families

20:10:25 @ukedchat@ethinking The society the child will grow up into?#ukedchat It's a good question you set.

20:10:34 @futurebehaviour @MissHudsonBrig Good way to find good peeps to followis take a look at #ukedchat which happens 8-9pm on Thu

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its citizens?but you can catch up any time.

20:10:36 @ethinking #ukedchat it's a very flawed view to suggest educators arebetter placed than politicians to determine the curriculum -

20:11:23 @mrpeel@ethinking #ukedchat imagine the differentiation for aschool with 1500 families all with different aspirations

20:11:26 @teachermrskhanHi Iram from Canada here, I hope it's okay to chime in.This is why curriculum needs to focus on broad skills of 21c. #ukedchat

20:11:39 @travelgeordie @HFletcherWood #ukedchat schools need to be themoral guardians I guess. Students are our future builders.

20:12:04 @CareersDefender #ukedchat. I don't see how it can until careers learning isstatutory

20:12:20@ethinking

#ukedchat @mrpeel does that need to be at a local or national level?

20:12:31 @pepeshepherdo#ukedchat what can't we use the curriculum to engagepupils and allow them to want to be in school? Buildpractical life skills, inspire.

20:12:35 @ukedchat@teachermrskhan You are welcome to #ukedchat. Pleasedefine 'broad skills of 21c'. Who sets those skills?

20:13:15 @SurrealAnarchy#ukedchat @MrVogtSS @HFletcherWood @travelgeordiewhat if local society's aims is to get out of education asquick as possible?

20:13:22 @ukedchat Deep philosophocal thinking over on #ukedchat thisevening...

20:13:29 @mrpeel @ethinking which the families or society? #ukedchat localhas some relevance beyond centralised national, surely

20:13:38 @CyborgStu

I loved this blog post. A must read for HTs. Have youwritten your pay policy yet? @theprimaryhead ...http://theprimaryhead.com/2013/06/30/so-many-freedoms-so-little-time/ #ukedchat

20:13:52 @bartoneducation @ethinking if you look at previous jobs of politicians, I

think they are suspect as well. #ukedchat20:13:57 @ethinking

#ukedchat @mrpeel so we disenfranchise familiesbecause it is inconvenient to the institution called school?

20:14:05 @rpwillan@ukedchat of course not. Sorry was trying to say morefocus needs to be on developing well rounded individuals#ukedchat

20:14:16 @travelgeordieIt's more than just teaching careers it's encouragingdiscerning students who know what information isvaluable to them #ukedchat

20:14:20 @Educ_job_please #ukedchat I believe that the curriculum should providetools to help young people into work.

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its citizens?

20:14:56 @ukedchatTonight's #UKedchat topic: Does the curriculum representsocietys educational aspirations for its citizens? from 8-9pm.

20:15 @ukedchatSociety needs mechanics, plumbers, carpenters etc. Doeseducation prepare for such a broad set of skills?#ukedchat

20:15:27 @MrBoneY5Videos recorded on the iPad are huge 1 to 2gb at least,makes them a hassle to upload. Any suggestions?#ukedchat

20:15:36 @dick_taylor @bartoneducationIB is driven by pedegogy not politicsCopy tech investors & set up a new independent new UKcurric in Deleware! #ukedchat

20:15:49 @tstarkey1212 #ukedchat is looking extremely interesting tonight.Recommended.

20:15:50 @ethinking#ukedchat @bartoneducation the notion of a curriculum isfor one interest group to impose their version of right uponanother group

20:16:09 @teachermrskhanTY! Broad skills include collaboration, critical thinking,communication, and creativity. More malleable for thefuture. #ukedchat

20:16:15 @bartoneducation@MrVogtSS don't see why not. #ukedchat it is ineveryone's interest for there to be engagement with

curriculum.

20:16:40 @mrpeel@ethinking not in the least. maybe reassess schools inthe german model for example and allow choice andrelevance ot needs #ukedchat

20:17:08 @oldandrewuk@ukedchat #ukedchat Education is about making peoplesmarter. You are thinking of training, not education.

20:17:57 @JivespinNot especially - I think there is still a residue snobberyabout such respectable trades from some areas of education #ukedchat

20:18:05 @rpwillan @ukedchat #ukedchat I also included vocational coursesin my definition of good grades. I am head of appliedlearning after all

20:18:36 @Educ_job_please#ukedchat But do we really understand the differentialsthat exist across society in terms of aspirations for pupilsand parents?

20:19:02 @ukedchat @rpwillan All about creating opportunities for all pupilsthen? #ukedchat Realistic ones?

20:19:07 @HFletcherWood

@surrealanarchy #ukedchat @MrVogtSS @travelgeordie

Good question. If it's worth having a curric, must be worthhaving 1 promoting education

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its citizens?

20:19:12 @CareersDefender @travelgeordie agreed that's why I use term career learning... Being able to manage ones career path#ukedchat

20:19:14 @davidwebster @ukedchat @nohandsup #ukedchat surely generalquestions *are* political questions? private schoolsdifferentiated via privilege, etc.

20:19:23 @ukedchat @Educ_job_please Indeed. At every level #ukedchat

20:19:27 @mrpeel@teachermrskhan #ukedchat are you suggesting thingslike collaboration or critical thinking are 21 centuryinventions? The name is new,1/2

20:19:28 @Stephen_Logan@ukedchat curriculum should include #careers#enterprise& #employability learning to develop vital skills& raise aspirations. #ukedchat

20:19:32 @englishalewis @ethinking @bartoneducation What would you proposeinstead? #ukedchat

20:19:40 @ICTmagic@Educ_job_please Should work be the only goal. Shouldwe aim to help young people cope in the wider world?#ukedchat

20:19:42 @ethinking#ukedchat @mrpeel I have an issue with the language"schools allow" where's the locus of control?

20:19:53 @KempsterDWeren't curricula born in this country withe Governesssystem for the rich?Looked after the children and started

'teaching' things #ukedchat

20:20:04 @CareersDefender #ukedchat the current state of careers learning is verypatchy, we need min levels as statutory, thepersonalisation follows on from there

20:20:04 @ukedchat @oldandrewuk So becoming skilled at a certaindiscipline? #ukedchat

20:20:08 @bartoneducation @dick_taylor #ukedchat great idea. A curriculum hasvalidity if people use it and adapt it!

20:20:10 @ethinking #ukedchat @SurrealAnarchy @bartoneducation translate

that20:20:11 @rpwillan @ukedchat #ukedchat exactly!

20:20:14 @englishalewis@oldandrewuk Without becoming too philosophical, whatwould you define as 'being smart'? #ukedchat

20:20:30 @James_ShMorePerhaps we overstate the impact the curric has on whatchildren are taught in school? Assessment/exams just asmuch of a driver #ukedchat

20:20:33 @ukedchatHas 'personalisation' now gone from the curriculumdebate? #ukedchat Has it been squeezed out recently?

20:20:37 @travelgeordie Perhaps there should be more local community action andstudents being aware of their role in the communities in

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its citizens?which they live #ukedchat

20:20:44 @dick_taylor @ukedchat Shopcraft 2 Soulcraft (Crawford) argues highedu jobs are most at risk to lowcost outsourcing but nottrade skills #ukedchat

20:21:05 @teachermrskhan Until people know exactly what career they want to trainin, need to learn broad 21st cent. skills. #ukedchat

20:21:09 @UnbiasedHistory#ukedchat Democracies need citizens who will hold thepowerful to account: curric must teach critical thought &use of evidence

20:21:16 @ethinking#ukedchat curriculum is driven by the people who fund theeducation system: HMG determines what needs to belearned to sustain UK PLC

20:21:17 @ethinking #ukedchat

20:21:29 @rpwillan @bartoneducation @ethinking or is it a way to ensure thatall groups get the best deal they can? #ukedchat

20:21:32 @ukedchat@teachermrskhan Very true. Aspirations at the end of 15will be different to when someone is 25. Life experience.#ukedchat

20:21:42 @CareersDefender @MrVogtSS @travelgeordie we speak the samelanguage. #ukedchat ;)

20:21:43 @ethinking #ukedchat in private schools - parents pay, they decidewhich model they buy into

20:21:47 @mrpeel@ethinking #ukedchat and exam boards are run bypublishers who produce the material to feed thecurriculum.

20:21:49 @davidwebster @ethinking @englishalewis @bartoneducation acurriculum is a social engineering tool. Bridges to possiblefutures. But which ones? #ukedchat

20:21:51 @Educ_job_please @ictmagic #ukedchat. Things like social awareness,respect, etc. also very important

20:22 @HeidiCWatkins

Using this next week @ASTsupportAAli: All you need is

post it notes 2 do this activity- extremely useful-http://cheneyagilitytoolkit.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/4x4-post-it-notes.html #ukedchat

20:22:20 @PickwickLearn Are you joining in the conversation and debate over at#ukedchat?

20:22:21 @mrpeel@ethinking or in the IB model where curriculum is broadlydefined but the freedom is with the teachers #ukedchat

20:22:23 @truan_steve#ukedchat education is not just about making peoplesmarter its about the developing life long interests, skills &

offering new opps20:22:24 @bartoneducation @SurrealAnarchy @ethinking #ukedchat I suggest we ask

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its citizens?SMEs. That is the engine of this country. Not journos,lawyers and big business.

20:22:27 @JivespinThink personalisation in education has been squeezeddue to funding and falling amount of resources available.#ukedchat

20:22:32 @ChrisChivers2#ukedchat Visit to an IQM school; 43 home languages, nooption but to personalise. They achieve 100% SATs level4+ as a result.

20:22:43 @KempsterD@ethinking Education of the masses for economic rather than individual benefit? #ukedchat Computer Science for example

20:22:56 @ethinking#ukedchat @davidwebster @englishalewis@bartoneducation the question is : who has the right todecide....

20:23:07 @Educ_job_pleaseRT @careersdefender: #ukedchat the current state of careers learning is very patchy, we need min levels asstatutory, the personalisation...

20:23:17 @Coding2Learn @mrpeel @ethinking AQA is a charitable organisationand not run by publishers. they're not all evil. #ukedchat

20:23:46 @mrpeel@ethinking #ukedchat to develop passion and interest inareas defined by the children in front of them.

20:23:57 @rashush2

#ukedchat giving children experience of loads of different

areas so they can find their niche maybe beyond familyexperience

20:24:02 @travelgeordiePerhaps personalisation comes with increased choice andmany schools are beginning to give this eg withindisciplines #ukedchat

20:24:26 @mrpeel @Coding2Learn @ethinking fair enough! #ukedchat

20:24:37 @ethinking #ukedchat @Educ_job_please @ICTmagic in your humble opinion - that's your version of right

20:24:38 @dick_taylor

@ukedchat How will flexible big data & adaptive content

(personalisation) fit/work with standardised curric? Highquality teachers #ukedchat

20:24:50 @KempsterD@ethinking: #ukedchat in private schools - parents pay,they decide which model they buy intoUsually a 'poor'model. Drivers are different

20:24:57 @CareersDefender I think we send kids to school so that they can play their part in society, being employable/entrepreneur is a largepart of that #ukedchat

20:25:28 @ukedchat

Has the focus of government and curriculum development

now been over-taken by international comparisons?#ukedchat

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its citizens?

20:25:34 @teachermrskhan@mrpeel no 21st cent skills aren't new, but are are goodall around skills needed to focus education #ukedchat

20:25:38 @Coding2Learn @KempsterD can you expand on what you mean by"Computer Science for example" #ukedchat

20:25:47 @truan_steve #ukedchat if we don't educate whole child, which bit do wemiss out ?

20:25:52 @danielharvey9@ethinking assuming that they actually know and canaccurately forecast #ukedchat#notsomethingcivilserviceisknowfor

20:26:03 @davidwebster @ethinking @englishalewis @bartoneducation - in anideal world, politicians would provide ethical leadership for us all. However.. #ukedchat

20:26:11 @SurrealAnarchy

#ukedchat @ethinking @davidwebster @englishalewis@bartoneducation no-one has the 'right' some have theresponsibility

20:26:14 @ethinking#ukedchat @KempsterD yes - nowt wrong with it: but it iswhat it is...

20:26:18 @imagineinquiry@ethinking And does HMG get their money from?#ukedchat

20:26:52 @mrpeel@teachermrskhan #ukedchat, i agree but merely think theidea of 21C is irrelevant. skills such as you cite are andalways will be needed

20:27:06 @ukedchat @imagineinquiry @ethinking Starbucks and google I think#ukedchat ;0)

20:27:23 @jackieschneider @CareersDefender - I think we send kids to school for largely child care solutions #ukedchat

20:27:33 @teachermrskhan @MrVogtSS skills can come later, when students arecareer bound #ukedchat

20:27:34 @ICTmagic@ethinking A rounded education is better than anarrowed one, at least until when the students can makean informed choice. #ukedchat

20:27:35 @ethinking#ukedchat @mrpeel I have yet to hear a persuasive casethat teachers are the best interest group to design acurriculum. - parents are

20:27:51 @CarpenterMatIn later years of education isn't it assessment that dictateseducation? You'd struggle to argue exams meet theneeds of society. #ukedchat

20:28:01 @bartoneducation@davidwebster @ethinking @englishalewis #ukedchatpoliticians are by definition without ethics (with noexceptions)

20:28:26 @ukedchat RT @danielharvey9: #ukedchat only for some whopolitical advantage rather than real governance and

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its citizens?leadership

20:28:39 @HFletcherWood@ukedchat Yes in broad terms - but this has little impacton things not tested in PISA/TIMSS like Humanities.#ukedchat

20:28:41 @ethinking#ukedchat @SurrealAnarchy @davidwebster @englishalewis @bartoneducation those elected areresponsible ? Or those with QTS?

20:28:48 @mrpeel@ethinking #ukedchat interesting and isnt it odd how littleinput they have? What about the students - should theyhave a say in post 16?

20:29:01 @CareersDefender @jackieschneider some sectors of soc yes, but we makeed mandatory as a soc for a reason #ukedchat

20:29:05@mrpeel

@danielharvey9 @ethinking #ukedchat I would love moresay in my boys' curricula - might bankrupt the school tho

20:29:21 @ethinking#ukedchat @ICTmagic that's your view - not everyoneagrees & neither are right or wrong

20:29:28 @Coding2Learn@ethinking @mrpeel my son's 5. I haven't a clue as aparent what he should be learning. When he gets to 11 I'llhave an opinion. #ukedchat

20:29:30 @travelgeordieI think gove should spend less time comparinginternationally and engage with what is great that isalready going on here #ukedchat

20:29:41 @frackham_edu

#UKedchat anyone looking for ed select committee reporton governance -->http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/education-committee/news/role-of-school-governing-bodies--substantive/

20:29:58 @mrpeel @Coding2Learn @ethinking #ukedchat mine ar e16 &17and I agree with you.#ukedchat

20:30:15 @ChrisChivers2#ukedchat Curricula look similar in the core and withbroader subjects, range also similar. Pedagogy is real

issue; the how, not the what.20:30:30 @ethinking #ukedchat @mrpeel @danielharvey9 so we accept poor

service because its difficult & expensive?

20:30:31 @bartoneducation@HFletcherWood #ukedchat and Pisa/tims isacknowledged as driving curricula around the world (seeUSA/Aust and UK)

20:30:57 @englishalewis@ethinking @davidwebster @bartoneducation That's awhole other educational chat that would take an eveningto debate! #ukedchat

20:30:58 @SurrealAnarchy #ukedchat @davidwebster @ethinking @englishalewis@bartoneducation with a certain amount of scepticism &

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its citizens?awareness of probable black swans

20:31:26 @danielharvey9@HFletcherWood @ukedchat international comparisonsdon't really achieve anything. See Dylan William#ssatnc12 #ukedchat

20:31:29 @ICTmagic @ethinking Indeed, and that is how it should be. A rangeof answers for different problems/opportunities. #ukedchat

20:31:29 @KempsterDThere are some very big businesses out there in thebackground driving curricula and educational changethrough donations etc #ukedchat

20:31:43 @ethinking #ukedchat @Coding2Learn @mrpeel I do have a clear view & the system treats us the same

20:32:14 @ukedchat@BinaryDigit1 Indeed. Shouldn't people who "failed" ineducation have a say in how education should work?#ukedchat

20:32:24 @ethinking#ukedchat @SAiston parents are experts and guardiansof their own kids

20:32:32 @ICTmagic@ethinking I agree that parents have should make a hugecontribution to the shape of a curriculum, but some willneed guidance. #ukedchat

20:32:33 @CareersDefender @bartoneducation @HFletcherWood #ukedchat isn't thatlike insisting all pupils take bushcraft cos they do it in

Aus? What happened to 1/2

20:32:36 @mrpeel@ethinking @SAiston #ukedchat to a degree in my schoolthere is serious cultural leaning towards 1 type of career and many are pushed

20:33:03 @ukedchat @ICTmagic @ethinking Guidance from the Daily Mail? Or beyond? #ukedchat

20:33:11 @oldandrewuk @englishalewis Being clever. Hard to give a definition thatisn't a synonym. #ukedchat

20:33:15 @ChrisChivers2#ukedchat Education should allow a child access to their world and the skills to understand it, including ability to

solve problems.

20:33:26 @UnbiasedHistory#ukedchat Govt portrays education as solely servingeconomic growth: tolerance empathy & mental health areequal if not more important goals

20:33:28 @ethinking #ukedchat @ICTmagic at the moment the system treatsall as idiots

20:33:44 @ukedchat @PrincesBold Who, for example? #ukedchat

20:33:58 @mrpeel@ethinking @SAiston #ukedchat down the science mathsroutes becaue parents demand it. Can be overbearing.

Needs moderation somewhere20:34:06 @teachermrskhan @ethinking I was trained & continue 2 lrn ed. research.

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its citizens?Parents raise kids 2 respect certain beliefs Cooperativeapproach needed. #ukedchat

20:34:16 @CareersDefender @bartoneducation @HFletcherWood #ukedchat being intune with the UKs needs 2/2 too much emphasis onRussell Group not enough on personal gls

20:34:18 @ethinking#ukedchat @bartoneducation @Coding2Learn @mrpeeldepends if you see gcse as important - my benchmark isa level

20:34:38 @oldandrewuk @CareersDefender @ukedchat #ukedchat How can yoube more educated if you haven't become smarter?

20:35:01 @SurrealAnarchy#ukedchat though I could suggest you read:http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/178135054X/ref=redir_ mdp_mobile for further insight ;-)

20:35:16 @KempsterD@ethinking What would be the knock on effect of a verynarrow curriculum to societybe? What would we lose as anation? @ICTmagic #ukedchat

20:35:22 @ukedchat @BinaryDigit1 Please use #ukedchat rather than @account, thank you

20:35:32 @jackieschneider @CareersDefender - the reason being that parents canafford to work! #ukedchat

20:35:44 @danielharvey9@HFletcherWood exactly. You don't see Finnisheducators in and out of UK and European schools

#ukedchat

20:36:12 @imagineinquiry@ethinking @ukedchat @ICTmagic Let's all stand backand let parents decide, I can't see a thing that could gowrong. #ukedchat

20:36:16 @CidandMo "@truan_steve: #ukedchat if we don't educate wholechild, which bit do we miss out ?" The bits we can't test?

20:36:30 @mrpeel@ethinking @bartoneducation @Coding2Learn mine too#ukedchat my issue is with parents deciding a level anduni choices and imposing them

20:36:40 @bartoneducation#ukedchat Curric/education is a political tool which is whyit swings so far. I'd prefer independent organization of business and educators.

20:37:07 @oldandrewuk @ukedchat #ukedchat None of the jobs you listed arereally academic disciplines.

20:37:13 @ethinking#ukedchat @Educ_job_please @ICTmagic and the right ateacher has to impose that on children - riding roughshodover family views?

20:38:19 @srcav

Yesterday's blog: "One year on...." a year since my 1st

post! http://wp.me/p2z9Lp-4i #UMFac #Maths #Mathchat#Education #UKEdchat #Edchat

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its citizens?struggling to follow

20:41:29 @ukedchat @mrpeel Your batteries? Or batteries on computer device? #ukedchat Or both!!!

20:41:39 @teachermrskhan@mrpeel I think these skills aren't being focussed onenough, that's the prob. Spec. content gets in the way &become irrelevant. #ukedchat

20:41:59 @ukedchat@nohandsup It is now...!!! #ukedchat Politicians cannotthink beyond 5 years, as they may not be in power bythen!

20:42:05 @ukedchat@jackieschneider "Does the curriculum representsociety's educational aspirations for its citizens"#ukedchat

20:42:11 @Educ_job_please

@careersdefender because I share many of your opinions& values #ukedchat see Work Ready Young Peoplestream http://ow.ly/mFy8F

20:42:15 @Coding2Learn@bartoneducation we had business involved in thediploma debacle and look how that turned out. #ukedchat

20:42:15 @nohandsup@dick_taylor Yes, read it. Prob is selective use of evidence to prop up political arguments #ukedchat

20:42:19 @mrpeel@ukedchat @nohandsup #ukedchat another reason Iprefer an independent model like the IBO which is notperfect but which is not after votes

20:42:31 @tholder81

Have a look at our Year 6 show trailer; made using#iMovie. Really easy and effective - idea from @ICT_MrPhttp://year6bellevue2012.primaryblogger.co.uk/year-6-information/show-trailer-panto-pandemonium/ #ukedchat

20:42:32 @travelgeordie @ukedchat @nohandsup #ukedchat soon education willbe privatised and then we're all in trouble

20:42:40 @ukedchat @PrincesBold Which is valued i'm sure. PS Please use#ukedchat and not the @ account thank you

20:42:45 @oldandrewuk @MrVogtSS @ukedchat #ukedchat So?

20:42:56 @KempsterD@ethinking What might we might lose?Worked in schoolswhere kids didn't have books at home.Schl was there onlyp/ground @ICTmagic #ukedchat

20:43:06 @nohandsupIn my view, teachers don't know best. Researchers,teachers, employers, uni's and sch leaders know best#ukedchat

20:43:13 @Educ_job_pleaseRT @ethinking: #ukedchat @SAiston parents are expertsand guardians of their own kids

20:43:14 @ukedchat @dick_taylor Please use #ukedchat and not the @account in your tweets. Thank you

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its citizens?

20:43:37 @urban_teacher when you have the technology but don't know how to useit. PD is a must! #ukedchat

20:43:43 @ukedchat @jackieschneider It is deliberately a broad term, of whichyou can set your own definition #ukedchat

20:43:57 @dick_taylor Sorry #ukedchat

20:44:07 @KempsterD@Educ_job_please: RT @ethinking: #ukedchat@SAiston parents are experts and guardians of their ownkidsNot all parents remember!!!!

20:44:41 @HFletcherWoodRT @educ_job_please "RT @ethinking: #ukedchat@SAiston parents are experts and guardians of their ownkids" Sometimes.

20:44:50 @truan_steve@nohandsup: @ukedchat Yes, remove the politicalshort-termism..... is this a word! #ukedchatit ought to be -it makes perfect sense

20:44:54 @CareersDefender #ukedchat I loath this academic sneering at trades edsystem. Who's going to type the prof's reports & fix his car if we all have 1/2

20:44:57 @travelgeordieDoes society care about education aspirations as muchas other countries? #ukedchat

20:45:04 @mrpeel@travelgeordie #ukedchat possibly not uniformly, but thenisnt that the same all over the world?

20:45:06 @CareersDefender

Degrees in academic' subjects. Ed is about enabling a

child to develop in a way that suits them not our need for dest measures 2/2 #ukedchat

20:45:35 @oldandrewuk @MrVogtSS @ukedchat #ukedchat No, I mean what doesthem having skills and knowledge have to do with it?

20:45:37 @dick_taylor what is the role of carers & other non parents with resp for students in this area? #ukedchat

20:45:39 @mrpeel @CareersDefender #ukedchat would you advocatevocational schools ? just asking out of interest

20:45:43 @ukedchat

@travelgeordie I think you make a good point. Western

societies v eastern societies? Or are you talking culturaldifferences? #ukedchat

20:46:07 @ICTmagic@KempsterD May be nice to live in a country where bookwere in every home. It's wider than edu, but edu has ahuge role @ethinking #ukedchat

20:46:15 @travelgeordie@mrpeel #ukedchat perhaps a side effect of beingdeveloped or of the welfare state?

20:46:31 @Coding2LearnI think the CS curriculum is a fine example of what can beaccomplished. CAS and BCS had a heavy input on what

kids will learn. #ukedchat20:46:31 @PrincesBold #ukedchat Is it a privilege to have to send children to a

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its citizens?private school because all schools in catchment are incategory?

20:46:31 @ethinking #ukedchat @Joga5 @Educ_job_please @ICTmagic howmany schools actually try?

20:46:54 @bartoneducation@travelgeordie #ukedchat the statistics would say no. Wesee education as a 'right' rather than a responsibility. cf India, China, Ghana

20:46:59 @mrpeel @travelgeordie #ukedchat possibly both form what I seeevery day

20:47:11 @ethinking #ukedchat @ICTmagic @KempsterD by the time they getto school - it's too late

20:47:19 @russeltarr MT @1972SHP: The hashtag for the History conferenceis #SHP25. Pass it on! #historyteacher #sschat#twitterstorians #ukedchat (Pls RT!)

20:47:32 @CareersDefender @mrpeel not until 16. Before that good quality careerslearning to ensure they make good independent choices#ukedchat

20:47:41 @urban_teacher If schools become lone islands running their own ships!Then we will have a big problem! #ukedchat

20:47:43 @travelgeordie@ukedchat #ukedchat certainly from my experience inchina and Bangladesh I'd say education is highly valued.

20:47:45 @KempsterD

@CareersDefender True. As @SirKenRobinson said

other day 'We can't all go to Oxford and Cambridge' theyare just not big enough! #ukedchat

20:47:51 @jackieschneider I'm out #ukedchat

20:47:57 @Fabteachertips Finding #ukedchat a bit of a pointless one this evening...Shame!

20:48:29 @ukedchat @urban_teacher Going away from uniformity? Surely thatis a good thing? #ukedchat

20:48:32 @mrpeel@CareersDefender thanks #ukedchat have germanfriends and the vocational looks gran unless you are a late

developer and want out

20:49:06 @bartoneducation@ethinking @ICTmagic @KempsterD #ukedchat. My kids'do school' coz they have to. Outside they are encouragedto deep dive into own interests

20:49:14 @travelgeordieSadly the status of teachers is being eroded by thegovernment and media in this country where on others weare highly respected #ukedchat

20:49:15 @ethinking#ukedchat parents as partners in curriculumhttps://peteyeomans.wordpress.com/2013/06/21/flipping-

school/ 20:49:17 @ChrisChivers2 #ukedchat Imagining DT as the core of the curriculum.

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its citizens?Problem solving at the centre?http://www.inclusionmark.co.uk/index.php/learningteaching/learning-and-teaching-policies/planning/imagine-dt-in-the-core-curriculum

20:49:23 @InspiredICTeachCheck out my proposed KS3 SOW for the next academicyear http://bit.ly/1a3brON #rethinkingict #ictcurric#compsci #ukedchat

20:49:28 @ICTmagic@ethinking True. But I was thinking influence of extendedfamily & generationally to help parents see the value.@KempsterD #ukedchat

20:49:30 @Coding2LearnFor centuries schools were about academic elitism andapprenticeships were about learning a trade. No opinion

just a point to make #ukedchat

20:49:31 @ukedchat Does a curriculum need to be progressive? #ukedchat Isthe curriculum you teach progressive?

20:49:32 @Educ_job_please@ethinking @KempsterD @SAiston #ukedchat thisabsent parent of ten years actually gives a damn abouthis three kid's education.

20:49:32 @CareersDefender @KempsterD @SirKenRobinson 100% agree though I'ma working class girl from the east end who went toCambridge ;) #ukedchat

20:49:35 @davidhunter

Off topic but #airserver one of biggest changes to my

class in a while, hooked up toipad.Anyone else getting themost out of this? #ukedchat

20:49:37 @BinaryDigit1#ukedchat should pupils of such a young age be alloweda narrow focus of study? For eg New university techcolleges, electronics,science

20:49:37 @KempsterD@ethinking But that's where you are wrong Pete. Theyloved school. Those Leyton kids started to want to cometo school @ICTmagic #ukedchat

20:49:59 @travelgeordie

Free schools where non qualified teachers can teach and

soldiers into schools. I wouldn't want an unqualifiedsurgeon! #ukedchat

20:50:04 @Coding2Learn@nohandsup at the moment we have a draft POS but itwill eventually be statutory for all non-academies.#ukedchat #compsci

20:50:13 @hashonomy_gus UK - Safer Internet Centre http://hashonomy.com/Dwwf/#ukedchat #edchat (via @nightzookeeper)

20:50:19 @CareersDefender @nohandsup @mrpeel #ukedchat that's why we needquals that can cross the voc/academic divide at fe & uni

level20:50:21 @oldandrewuk @MrVogtSS @ukedchat #ukedchat I cannot see anything

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its citizens?to link your premise & your conclusion.

20:50:28 @HFletcherWood @ukedchat Don't know if we can make a normativestatement like that, but I think mine is. #ukedchat

20:50:33 @travelgeordieThe curric needs to be relevant and contemporary andallow students to think and respond to the changing worldin which we live #ukedchat

20:50:42 @Coding2Learn @bartoneducation Good point. #ukedchat

20:50:42 @davidhunter #ukedchat always amazes me that we're not teaching chnhow to cook and fix things from an early age. Is this justthrowaway culture?

20:50:44 @TeacherToolkit @ukedchat - err, that's a yes. #ukedchat

20:50:51 @nohandsup@MrVogtSS Why not researchers, employers, uni's etc?Can they not offer anything? #ukedchat

20:51:10 @ukedchat @TeacherToolkit Great. How? #ukedchat

20:51:10 @KempsterD@Educ_job_please I'm talking about the parents of kidswho drink all day for example and the kids go hungry@ethinking @SAiston #ukedchat

20:51:18 @mrpeel @davidhunter #ukedchat it seems that it is, just as it isbecoming a google culture rahte rthan a knowledge one

20:51:33 @KempsterD @Educ_job_please Personal experience of a school inLondon @ethinking @SAiston #ukedchat

20:51:44 @bartoneducation @jamesdhobson #ukedchat I also think the boat is in avideo game! Fun all the same!

20:51:49 @travelgeordieIf one thing the academies movement is good for it allowstalented curriculum designers to create modern relevantlearning #ukedchat

20:51:53 @nohandsup TES in hostile hashtag takeover bid! #ukedchat20:51:58 @ukedchat @nohandsup Where? Can't see! #ukedchat

20:52:39 @CareersDefender My blog looked at the effects of UTC's, studio schools etcand the effect of selective ed in this context #ukedchathttp://careersedforall.co.uk/?p=19

20:52:41 @bartoneducation@travelgeordie #ukedchat How does that work at GCSElevel though? Sorry, I really know primary better but surely14+ it IS GCSE?

20:52:45 @ICTmagic @OoeyGooeyLady @ukedchat I often think that'progressive' is in the eye of the beholder. #ukedchat

20:53:06 @Coding2Learn@travelgeordie At KS3 I'd agree to a certain extent. AtKS4 and 5 were exam factories like everyone else.#ukedchat

20:53:17 @Hullsented

Enterprise skills are vital in the curriculum here's a few

resources to get you startedhttp://www.beenterprisinghull.co.uk/resources . #ukedchat

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its citizens?@HullsEnterprise

20:53:26 @travelgeordie Read Education futures by Kerr facer to help develop amodern progressive curriculum #ukedchat

20:53:47 @DavKellyPro Really interesting #ukedchat tonight

20:53:47 @ukedchat@OoeyGooeyLady Progressive? Happening or developing gradually or in stages; proceeding step by step#ukedchat (from a dictionary!)

20:53:48 @sparklyquark@travelgeordie erm you don't always have to be qualifiedin private schools or academies either. Bad ideas allround #ukedchat

20:54:03 @ChrisChivers2@travelgeordie Right to a relevant, broad and balancedcurriculum should be for all schools, not just academies.Talent elsewhere. #ukedchat

20:54:15 @helen2112 Anyone using twitter with children/schools have anyproblems with negative tweets from parents? #ukedchat

20:54:19 @ukedchatFinal question from me tonight. How can we measurewhether a curriculum is effective? Really effective.#ukedchat

20:54:21 @Fabteachertips#ukedchat @TeacherToolkit haha... How is a curriculumprogressive?! What a question! Lol

20:54:24 @davidhunter @ali_bowman23 I am now part of the class, not in front of it #ukedchat

20:54:33 @KempsterDDoesn't progressive mean 'make progress'. Movingforwards, not looking back? Develop what worked andbuild on it? #ukedchat

20:54:35 @travelgeordie@bartoneducation your hands are al tied there but at year 7 8 and 9 there is plenty of freedom and can design ownevaluation #ukedchat

20:54:37 @ethinking #ukedchat @Fabteachertips do you think standards wouldfall?

20:55 @chrismayoh Join us for #dlchat straight after #ukedchat at 9pm. Great

discussion guaranteed.

20:55:02 @marty197300_ It would help enormously to have people in governmentwho genuinely care for children's education rather thatdriving ideology #ukedchat

20:55:12 @nohandsup@jackieschneider TES tweeting links to articles using#ukedchat .......is there a phrase to describe this type of hashtag piggy-backing!!!

20:55:12 @hlmrmo@ukedchat People are inspired by it and develop alifelong interest in learning #ukedchat

20:55:14 @bartoneducation @ukedchat #ukedchat Brilliant question! I'd go for thehappiness measure from OECD administered at different

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its citizens?ages.

20:55:16 @CareersDefender @ukedchat that the pupils become contributing membersof soc, be that a company director, train driver or shopassistant #ukedchat

20:55:21 @davidhunter @mrpeel I don't think shoelaces or screwdrivers makes itinto the new primary curriculum even once! #ukedchat

20:55:28 @urban_teacher @ukedchat @mrvogtss Schools should be comingtogether! Sharing different Specialisms to make theeducation system stronger #ukedchat

20:55:46 @ChrisChivers2#ukedchat There needs to be an agreed, preferablynational frame of reference against which to judgeprogress and outcomes.

20:56 @natachakennedy

#ukedchat Seems to me that if politicians/Ofsted listenedto @KenRobinson schools would be a lot better placeshttp://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_how_to_escape_education_s_death_valley.html

20:56:03 @TaffTykeC@ethinking @ICTmagic @KempsterD The earliest yearsare key. I also think that more 'real life' skills should betaught though. #ukedchat

20:56:05 @ukedchat@davidhunter @mrpeel Wasted opportunity. Unless youare an academy, then you can put them in!!! #ukedchat

20:56:11 @travelgeordie

@Coding2Learn @sparklyquark #ukedchat there is room

for didactic teaching very very sparingly for complextopics

20:56:14 @passionateabootMissed #ukedchat tonight because I was playing out#touchrugby

20:56:15 @Coding2Learn@nohandsup I think as of now ICT is no longer a subject.CS is replacing it. PowerPoint is dead, long love Python.#ukedchat check DfE site.

20:56:17 @Coding2Learn @natachakennedy @kenrobinson Couldn't agree more#ukedchat

20:56:22 @tomtolkien A list of free E-Safety resources for primary andsecondary schools http://wp.me/Px3Lb-VI #edchat#ukedchat #esafety

20:56:28 @ethinking

#ukedchat @Fabteachertips @TeacherToolkitprogressive is an ideological termhttp://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_education itis neither good or bad

20:56:36 @ukedchat Just 5 minutes of #ukedchat remain. Final thoughts?

20:56:56 @KempsterD

I'm all for working with parents. A local prostitute with a

child in my class volunteered to come in and help out.Erratic! #ukedchat

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its citizens?

20:57:18 @TaffTykeC@Educ_job_please @ICTmagic Yes. Things likeenterprise etc. Does this necessarily make chnresponsible citizens? #ukedchat

20:57:21 @Coding2Learn@travelgeordie @sparklyquark I managed an entire BScwith didactic teaching. But I agree it has a time and place.#ukedchat

20:57:21 @ICTmagic @Coding2Learn @natachakennedy I think you mean@sirkenrobinson #MyHero #ukedchat

20:57:22 @ukedchatIs it up to teachers to force the curriculum issues moreso? Have you spoken to your MP about concerns?#ukedchat

20:57:35 @natachakennedy@ICTmagic @Coding2Learn @sirkenrobinson Ooops yesthat Ken Robinson. He does exceedingly good TEDEducation talks #ukedchat

20:57:44 @ICTmagic@TaffTykeC Experience is important too. An activitydoesn't need to 'make' them something. Life is a string of experiences. #ukedchat

20:57:47 @Toryedumacation @TaffTykeC @Educ_job_please @ICTmagic Maybereading vast list of facts might help? #ukedchat

20:57:48 @Hullsented@ukedchat curriculum should be related to the real worldand have #enterprise skills embedded in every subject.Flexible creative #ukedchat

20:57:54 @KempsterD@TaffTykeC Absolutely. Put the major money in EYeducation. Stop the devaluing of those involved.@ethinking @ICTmagic #ukedchat

20:58:03 @bartoneducation#ukedchat Not sure that curriculum can be defined bysociety. Such a personal thing. Key is to prepareeveryone to learn for life #skills

20:58:13 @Coding2Learn@sparklyquark @travelgeordie I don't think school wouldemploy teacher without the required subject knowledge. Itbenefits nobody. #ukedchat

20:58:26 @TaffTykeC @CareersDefender I agree. If chn are going the extra milenow, one would hope it continues into adulthood. Showthem the options #ukedchat

20:58:27 @ICTmagic @Toryedumacation Yes. Please send me the list!#UKedchat @TaffTykeC @Educ_job_please

20:58:28 @CareersDefender @ukedchat NUT launching a campaign this month calledcurriculum concern. Look out for it #ukedchat

20:58:43 @Toryedumacation @ICTmagic @TaffTykeC Waffly nonsense. Life is aboutramming facts up your brain. #ukedchat

20:58:47 @bartoneducation #ukedchat There's something about teaching a kid to fishhere ... but I am not sure where I put it! Final Thought!

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its citizens?

20:58:58 @ukedchatPhew. 9pm. Many thanks for your company this evening#ukedchat

20:59:06 @Coding2Learn@ICTmagic @Toryedumacation @TaffTykeC@Educ_job_please work is not the only aim. Academiaand knowledge have there own rewards too #ukedchat

20:59:07 @TaffTykeC @ICTmagic Absolutely! Was just putting the question outthere but share your view. #ukedchat

20:59:13 @KempsterD @ukedchat To be honest, most MPs don't understand or give a sh*t #ukedchat

20:59:35 @bartoneducation@Toryedumacation @ICTmagic @TaffTykeC #ukedchatBut facts are easy, dead simple, simple brain scienceteaches us that!

21:00 @urban_teacher Ben Barton Ben Barton @bartoneducation 5m

21:00:05 @ukedchatIt's 9pm & #ukedchat must come to a close. The archivewill be at http://ukedchat.com/2013/07/04/session-158/ & next week's poll is at http://ukedchat.com/poll/ now

Archive Session 158

Documents

Transcript of Archive Session 158