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12 2003 - 2004 Edition

into New York clubs. Andrew Ellis

was only about four years intobeing a so-called “full-time” agent,

but about two years into seeing

his bands emerge onto the nationalradar.

First it was just him, then he

and his mom, who helped answerthe phones. Now he and his staff,

Ginny Song, Floyd Starkweather

and fellow agent Matt Galle, areknown for that very ugly, very

overused phrase of “having their

finger on the pulse.” But, come on.Dashboard Confessional? Three

years ago, were there that many

folks out there that fully under-stood what Chris Carrabba was

doing?

Ellis Industries also has NewFound Glory and Alkaline Trio.

Then there’s those bands that he

has been booking for quite sometime but are just now beginning

to bust loose – Thrice and

Brand New, for instance – andanother band that’s going on

POLLSTAR’s cover, Taking Back

Sunday.And don’t forget the Ghetto Kids.

“No, The Get Up Kids.”

Three years ago, Ellis wouldhave to correct club owners on

the name while trying to book

a show.There’s no formula here, no

secret voodoo. It’s this guy who

decided to book a bunch of bandsthat he liked and found out soon

enough that when your bands

become popular, other agents want

to book them, too.

So how did you get your start

in this booking thing?

A I didn’t have a job at the time.

I was kind of working at a record

label, Another Planet / ProfileRecords. A lot of their bands

didn’t have agents, so they were

like, “Do you want to help thesebands out, or could you do

something so we can pay you

money?”For a bunch of years, I used

to be the stage manager at The

Ritz in New York City, bothincarnations – the original one

downtown and the one that took

over Studio 54. I was doing allthe amazing punk bands, all the

bands that ended up blowing up,

like Guns N’ Roses, Dinosaur Jr.,and The Pixies. Fishbone would

play there every other week, and

the Ramones played there.I went from the Ritz to

booking the Grande, which was

the old Kat Club in New York City.I booked there until the owner

closed the club.

Another Planet had Murphy’sLaw, American Standard, this

band called Stanley, and I don’t

remember the rest. I needed a job,and they’d try to find me stuff to

do. I’m not really good at making

retail calls, so they had me try anddo booking.

So, they booked their own

bands in a very rudimentaryway. There wasn’t any tour

support or stuff like that.

Murphy’s Law was the onlyband that was getting decent guar-

antees, and everybody else was

getting crappy guarantees. Sincethere really wasn’t too much tour

support, it didn’t really go that far

or last that long. From there, I wasbooking this band called Lounge.

And I started working with The

Promise Ring and that ended ...poorly.

The record label was never

a full-time thing. It was, like,four hours a day and very little

money. The job I was supporting

myself with was working forConverse. The job was “Special

Markets,” which was a job

I created. The job was doingproduct placement in music

and independent films. That

was way before every sneakercompany had a product place-

ment department.

So I’d put sneakers on Nirvanaand Green Day and Snoop Dogg

and the Ramones. A lot of bands.

The other job just paid for beerand chips. I was with Converse

for eight years, up until two years

ago.It allowed me to decide if I

wanted to be a booking agent and

it allowed me to keep bookingwhen I wasn’t making a living.

The first band to come along

was The Get Up Kids. I was

freelance booking clubs at thetime. I was booking stuff at

Coney Island High, CBGBs and

SOBs, and I did a show for JimmyEat World and the Get Up Kids at

Coney Island. They were touring

together. I talked to the Get UpKids and asked if they were

interested.

At the time, the roster was GetUp Kids, Lounge, and Hot Rod

Circuit.

So, you could say at the time

that Coney Island High, CBGBs

and SOBs was your “territory”?

A They were the easiest clubsto go into as an independent

promoter and gave me the most

freedom. At those clubs, it was likeyou booked the show, you helped

stage manage the show, you made

sure there was beer in the dressingroom, you’d deal with security

issues, and you’d just kind of run

around like an idiot.Converse made a ridiculous

amount of contacts for me. There’s

still people that hear my name or Iwork with on whatever and they’re

like, “Oh yeah! You’re the sneaker

guy!” or the “sneaker pimp” orwhatever.

So a lot of people in the con-

cert industry already knew

you?

A No. There were definitely

people who knew who I was but,by and large, up until a year or two

ago, people didn’t know who

I was or cared.

What would make the

difference?

A What would make the

difference? Just bands being

successful. An agent’s as bigand as powerful as the bands he

represents. When he thinks he’s

more powerful than his acts,then he’s in a lot of trouble.

Everybody’s stepped up. When

we started out, I’d be trying to geta date for the Get Up Kids and the

Andrew EllisEllis Industries

So there’s this guy, OK? Two years ago virtually

nobody knew who he was. He was booking all

these, for lack of a better term, “no-name” bands

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clubs would be like, “The Ghetto

Kids”?

“No, The Get Up Kids.”But that was way before this

whole wave of music started to

do really well, I guess.

Were you attracted to bands

that played this type of music?

A I was just attracted to bands

that I liked.

If I can’t sit through a show,then I’m not going to book

the band. If there’s a band that’s

going to do really well, and Ithink they stink or I don’t like

the music or whatever, I’m not

going to book ’em. If I can’t lookthe band in the face and talk

about the show and music, it’s

not what I want to do. I don’twant it to feel like work going

to a show.

The newest band I’ve pickedup is a band called Dios. A friend

of mine had a demo of theirs

and just said I should checkit out. I did, and it’s just great.

It’s something between The

Flaming Lips and the Beach Boys.They’re based out of Hawthorne,

where the Beach Boys were

from.The guys are just completely

green about what the whole

music industry is and the crapthat goes on. It’s refreshing

totally starting at ground zero.

They’d never toured outsideCalifornia. They didn’t have

a record label deal out there.

They were burning their ownCDs, writing on the case, and

selling them at shows. Total

punk rock, guerilla marketing.

Did you see them play outside

of California?

A I’ve never booked a band that

I hadn’t seen play live. The music

can be good but I’ve never pickedup a band that was bad live and

the music was good.

I went to this dive bar inHollywood; I can’t even remem-

ber the name of it. There was no

real stage, just this carpeted area

they were playing on. I was out

here for something and asked

them to book an L.A. show soI could see them.

Is that the case for most of the

bands you pick up?

A All of the bands I’ve picked up

have been on an indie label first.There’s never been a major label

band. A lot of them are on major

labels now, but a lot of them werein their infancy.

At the time, were you in

competition with the “big”

agencies for these bands?

A It’s like anything else. When

you’re first starting out andthere’s some kind of success,

then people want to see how

loyal those bands are to youand stuff like that. If there’s

something successful and people

aren’t sure of how well thatproperty’s protected, they’re

going to test it.

When you first start out,you’re very green to everything

that’s going on and you’re like,

“Wow! Look at all these (other)agents that are checking out

my band!” you know? And

then you realize they’re notthere as music fans. I think

there’s a lot of agents or agencies

that acquire their talent thatway.

Is there a formula for picking

these bands, or is it just as

simple as, “Wow. I like them”?

A Yeah, I guess it’s just timing

and luck, and it’s what I like.I guess all those things.

Where was Dashboard

Confessional’s career “at”

when you first approached

Chris?

A That’s actually a good

story. I was booking NewFound Glory on this Drive-

Thru Records tour and the

guitar player, Chad, was like,“We have this friend, he

plays acoustic guitar and

we want him to go on in-

between bands during the setchange.”

I didn’t want to do that.

It was going to screw the showup; it was going to make the set

change longer. It didn’t make any

sense.But Chad was persistent.

“It’s only going to be 15 minutes,

it’s not going to make a bigdeal.”

Whatever.

I was fighting him on it,we were arguing about it, and

he says the guy will go on 15

minutes at the doors and play15 minutes on the stage, how’s

that?

I was like, fine, OK, whatever.So we put him on the tour.

And I started hearing from Chad

and other people that this isreally good, it’s going well; here’s

this guy nobody’s ever heard

of playing by himself on anacoustic guitar at a punk rock

show, and people are being super

attentive.Then, when I saw it live,

I thought, This is awesome.

We had a show in New Jerseyand I sat in his van – it was

just him and his merch person

touring in a van – and wetalked and started working with

him.

Where did you start booking

Chris Carrabba?

A There used to be – and I guessthere still is but I don’t think to

the same degree – some amazing

halls all over the country. VFWs,coffee shops, karate schools. Here

and there you’d put a club in.

Coney Island High was a greatclub to start bands out at and

break them in. People at CBGBs

have always been awesome withthat. Chain Reaction in Califor-

nia has been great with that.

Emo’s has always been amazingand helpful with super, super

below-the-radar, unknown stuff.

There’s guys in Florida, anindependent company that takes

notice before clubs even care. In

Long Island, there’s this promoterout there, Christian, who’s always

done an amazing job.

We’d do a show in this VFWhall and there’d be 300 kids there.

Then the band would come back

six months later and there wouldbe 1,000 people there.

Maybe I’m in a different

place now, but I just don’t seethat anymore. There was this

kid in New Jersey named Rickie

who used to do these VFW hallsand firehouse shows. He didn’t

know anything about doing a

show. The band would play ashow and if it did well, he’d give

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14 2003 - 2004 Edition

them $200. There was no deal

or contracts or anything like

that.I don’t know if it was more of

me helping him or corrupting

him, but I’d show him how a clubwould work and how he could

use elements of a club show in

a hall show so that he could makemoney, the bands could make

money, and he could have a

better PA.He did everything. He did At

The Drive-In, he did The Get Up

Kids, he did Jimmy Eat World,New Found Glory, Piebald, just

all these bands that ended up

being really successful.

While you were saying that,

the publicist for Brand New

just called in to pitch the band

for the cover.

A Well, that’s good. Taking Back

Sunday is going to be on the

cover. Man, that’s great.

Any acts that you have that

are about to break?

A I dunno. There’s a few young

bands. Dios, Senses Fail, and My

Chemical Romance. Then there’sStraylight Run, which are two

of the guys who played in Taking

Back Sunday who left and startedtheir own band. They have an

upcoming co-headline tour with

the New Amsterdams, which isMatt from The Get Up Kids’

other project.

The New Amsterdams’ newrecord is amazing. It’s not a Get

Up Kids record; it’s Matt’s record.

It’s something to check out.It came out about five months

ago.

When did you feel the need

for a staff?

A At first, it was just me. Then,my mom would help me. She

would answer the phones and

still helps out. I’m lucky that shewas willing to help. I just knew

that it was getting to be too much

work. I was getting up at 11 a.m.in the morning and going to bed

at 6 a.m. and taking a 30-minute

nap during the day.

But that was just kind of toughto do.

So, I was talking to Ginny Song

on the phone. She used to workat Clear Channel – she took care

of the D.C. area. We’d talk on the

phone. I don’t even rememberhow it came up but I asked if

working here would be of any

interest to her. She said yes,and she’s worked out better

than anything I could have ever

wished for. She runs the showbehind the scenes.

Matt (Galle) used to work

for MassConcerts and he alsoworked at the Kenmore Agency.

I’ve been working with Matt for

a really long time and I don’teven remember how the subject

came up but we talked a lot on

the phone and he had bands Iliked, and Matt loves music and

always had a really good work

ethic. So he left Boston andmoved to Long Island and that’s

worked out really well, too. He’s

got his ear to the streets andhears about stuff. He and Ginny

are a great sounding board and

give me a different angle onthings.

Was your office always in the

same place?

A No. I mean, I live in the city,

so we’re in the city sometimes,but the office is in Great Neck. We

bought a place in Long Beach

and there’s a lot of constructionissues, so it’s been kind of

sitting there waiting for a floor

to be put in because an outsidewall had to be fixed. But,

essentially, it’s a Long Island

company.

So, right now, your office is all

across America?

A I guess. It’s wherever there’s

a cell phone signal or a modem.

So you’re carrying a laptop

around with you.

A No.

No?

A No. I don’t carry computers.I despise computers and I hate

e-mail. I won’t work with any

promoter who wants to workwith me exclusively by e-mail.

And I won’t work with an agent

who works exclusively by e-mail.If you can’t get on the phone

and talk to someone, then I really

don’t need to do this with you.I know people are in a hurry and

e-mailing the itinerary is fine, but

when it comes to negotiating ashow or talking about a tour,

in one conversation you can

get done what would take 10back-and-forth e-mails.

Did you ever try?

A I tried a little bit and thought,

This stinks. I don’t like getting400 e-mails a day saying, “Hey!

What are you doing? What’s

going on later today?”Just pick up the phone.

I still have e-mail but if you go

to [Pollstar’s Agency Directory],my e-mail address isn’t listed

anywhere. It’s just too informal.

“Hi. I heard about you throughwhatever and I was wondering

how much this band costs.”

Just pick up the phone!What’s even better is when it’s

something really urgent and they

e-mail you. They’ll say, “Didn’t

you get my e-mail?” I check mye-mail once a day or every other

day. There’s a few people I just

started working with and I’vesaid, “Don’t ever e-mail me if

it’s anything you need addressed

in the next day or two.”If somebody sends me an

e-mail and they’re looking

for whatever band to play thiscollege or date, I’ll e-mail the per-

son back and say, “Cool, thank

you for your interest. What’s thebest number to reach you at?”

So why would you need to stay

up until 6 a.m.?

A I don’t sleep a lot. And when

I first started out, I would go tobands’ Web sites and see where

they were playing all over the

country and try to research therooms and see what other bands

were playing the rooms. The

Internet has made booking amillion times easier.

There are kids who are

promoters who promote stuffor halls or rent out clubs that

either go to school or have

another job and are neveraround. You can leave a message

on their cell phone but, ulti-

mately, you’re going to getin touch with them by sending

ELLIS INDUSTRIES’ Ginny Song and Matt Galle plot strategy with Andrew inside thecompany’s Star Chamber.

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them an e-mail, or you’re going

to find out how to get in touch

with them by sending them ane-mail.

I guess there’s good and bad

things to it. I don’t rememberhow many times I’d be on the

Internet for hours. I can’t even

remember the Web sites now,but there were all these amazing

regional punk Web sites that

would just list all these hall showsand all these contacts.

I’ve got about 22 or 23 bands

on my roster right now. There’sa lot of bands that have side

bands or other bands. I still keep

these hours because I tell all thebands that I work with that I’m

accessible. If there’s a problem

with the show, you can call me.I make myself accessible until

probably 3 to 4 a.m., which is

probably a dumb thing. Just aslong as they don’t call me before

11 a.m. the next day.

Everybody has a learningcurve. Some bands and some

people are unbelievable students

of the game and other ones takea lot longer to learn those same

lessons.

“The guy’s trying to takeadvantage of this expense or

that expense,” or, “He said we’re

not supposed to get this,” or,“There’s no catering,” or, “Things

are really screwed up with

settlement,” or, “Is this a realexpense?” or, “The guy’s Ticket-

master is a lot less than what he

said he sold.”You know, there’s just a million

things. There’s a lot of stuff.

Everybody learns at a differentpace and, hopefully, people will

start catching on. You hope.

What’s your philosophy on

establishing a band from the

ground level up?

A You just want to keep a youngband out touring as much as

possible. They’re going to learn

by touring.Sure, there’s certain clubs, cer-

tain agents, but there is no super,

super baby band way or medium/

middle size band way or larger/

big band way – it’s not like that.

There’s obviously gradualincreases in room size but it’s

a really bad situation when a

band hasn’t toured at all or hasdone three shows when you’ve

picked them up. There’s a certain

amount of homework a bandneeds to do.

There’s been a few bands that

have come up to me and I’vetold them, “You guys don’t need

a booking agent yet. Me being

your booking agent isn’t goingto help you. You need to do the

grassroots – the super grassroots

stuff – like the garage and base-ment shows, and you don’t need

me calling as a booking agent

to say, ‘Hey, can I have my bandplay in your basement?’

“But, keep in touch or, if I have

a show coming through, I’ll try toput you on the bill.”

Did being a former stage

manager help you at all?

A It’s helpful when it comes to

costs. I’ll see an offer sheet andknow how much it costs to do

this, or to hire that. As things get

more complicated with unionsand everything else, being a

club stage manager doesn’t have

that much relevance but in a lotof other aspects, it does – in

running a show, talking to a tour

manager and telling him thatload-in should be around a

certain time or that a set change

shouldn’t take any longer thana certain amount of time.

When was your first arena

show?

A Last year, New Found Glory,

Cox Arena, San Diego.

Was that a new experience

as far as negotiation goes?

A Yeah, as far as different

expenses and different things

to take in. You know, I did my re-search. Hopefully well. Rick

DeVoe, working with Blink-182

and then managing New Found

Glory, has been very helpful.

Rich Egan, being with The Get

Up Kids, Dashboard Confes-sional and then Vagrant Records

with Alkaline Trio and Hot Rod

Circuit, he’s always been veryhelpful and supportive.

What about your contract?

Did you have to do a lot of

revisions at first?

A Oh, it’s constantly being re-

vised. You’ve gotta find peoplewho will help you out. There’s so

much stuff, like keeping your eye

on Ticketmaster, that people cantalk to you about, but it’s through

experience. It’s trial and error

and, hopefully, you don’t botchthings up too much while you’re

learning. You’d hate to think one

of your bands is your “learningexperience.”

But there are, you know?

And all your bands benefit fromall the mistakes you made or

did make, or will make. But, you

know, it’s only a bad mistake ifyou make it twice.

The truth of the matter is,

if myou have managers thatare willing to help you with,

for instance, getting a hold of

contracts or other information

from other artists they have, then,

if you’re a small agent and you’re

working with a manager that hasbigger clients, before they trust

you they’re going to see how

attached the band is to you.Then, after that understanding

is established, they look to help

you out as a business person withcontracts or lawyers or just pieces

of advice.

I would say that, starting out,I didn’t know anything, or know

anybody or who to contact or

who to call and, for some reason,it was a bunch of female agents

that were the most helpful. It was

Eva Alexiou at Fata Booking,Stormy Shepherd (Leave Home

Booking), Robin Taylor at Inland

Empire and Margie (Alban) atDo It Booking. For some reason,

they took mercy on me, helped

me out and gave me phonenumbers and contacts, which

I thank them for greatly.

If somebody wanted to get

into this business, what would

be the first thing you suggest

they do?

A If you wanted to become anagent? Find a bunch of bands you

like. *

DASHBOARD CONFESSIONAL’S Chris Carrabba (2nd from R) gets his first hockey jerseyat his first arena show September 6th at Lowell, Mass.’ Tsongas Arena. Along withAndrew are Dashboard bassist Scott Shoenbeck, MassConcerts’ John Peters andarena GM Craig Gates.