32 - Systemic Thinking - Ocean 2 - Transcript

Copyright Robbins-Madanes Training

Understanding teen intervention – Ocean 2

Film Transcript

Cloe – Cloe MadanesTony – Anthony Robbins

BarbraOceanAlbert

Cloe: When a teen is in distress, what is the cause? What can parents do differently to create rapid change in their teen’s behavior? How much do family dynamics affect the teen’s behavior even one who is dedicated to doing well? You are about to see. In the previous film we met Ocean who described the conflict with her parents that led her to run away from home and to start cutting her legs. Tony led Ocean to understand the situation with her parents more clearly and led her to a more stable family relationship. A few weeks later, Tony and I visited with Ocean and her parents at a relative’s home. As you will see, Ocean had taken the first important step towards improvement with no drug use, cutting or running away and she had began to create some positive changes in the family. Now Tony and I need to understand the larger patterns in Ocean’s family environment to ensure the continued happiness of everyone involved. Tony and I met with Ocean and her parents in their family home near Ocean’s house.

Have you seen changes in Ocean?

Barbra: Oh she’s been phenomenal. She’s been great since she got home. She’s exceptionally, for me it’s I find her like very easy to approach, very easy to talk to and I know that I have changed a lot too since ocean has come home. My role as far as having changed. I have changed as far as; I know that I am a fanatic as far as telling Ocean to do this and to do that and to worry about her room, and to worry about the lights of her shower…

Cloe: Oh great.

Barbra: To worry about everything.

Cloe: I suspected.

Barbra: Totally all the way, whether she’s got a cold or whether she doesn’t have a cold and like everything, what time she goes to bed, everything

File: Understanding teen interventionPage1


and now since she got home, all I am trying to do and I think I am doing a pretty good job just to love and to show her that I love her and let Ocean be Ocean.

Cloe: It’s a good sign that her mother has realized that perhaps she was too controlling or demanding and is now focusing on love.

Barbra: She’s been great since she got home, she’s open, she seems free, she seems peaceful, yeah, approachable is a good word.

Cloe: That’s great. And who [Inaudible 0:02:40]

Albert: I have seen lots of light, lots of flamboyant, carefree, maybe a bit cautious it’s all there is.

Cloe: What do you mean cautious?

Albert: Well she had, over Christmas Eve, she had some I guess breakings of her past that she was trying to deal with as far as her mom goes like her biological mom and she had done some of that stuff that she’s been holding onto I guess all that writing that she had put together and we went through that process Christmas Eve and I thought it was very brave for her that, like her life there is two extremes as one side and there is this side right and they are so opposite, there is so much dark one direction, there is so much light the other direction

Cloe: Ocean’s biological mother had been a drug addict for most of her life. The father is referring to the difference between the biological mother’s environment, the dark side and this family’s environment, the light side.

Albert: But…

Barbra: But I think through it all Ocean was able to be herself too and that is the first time I’ve seen Ocean be herself around her mother in that situation. Do you know what I mean? She wasn’t that you know, she wasn’t that everything is ok and feeling and stuff. Ocean was herself and Ocean was hurt through it and Ocean was able to portray that to her mom. Which I thought

Cloe: So you saw your mother?

Ocean: Yes

Cloe: Oh I didn’t know that, she came here?

Barbra: Well she was in town and so they met up, we met up with her at Ocean’s cousin’s place

Ocean: See the baby



Albert: Yeah they just had a baby

Barbra: So she wanted to take a little gift to the baby and to see her cousin’s and stuff, right?

Albert: Yeah

Barbra: Ocean is very dedicated to her family so

Cloe: So what happened? How was it with your mum?

Ocean: It was good because now I have closure in the situation like I understand it, because I was like should I talk to her because maybe it will help or should I just continue and do like tough love kind of thing, like dismiss her and you know she wanted a different kind of love and through seeing her and who she is, well now I know like, I can't help her [Inaudible 0:05: 10] like she is on her own path, so that is how its going to go.

Cloe: We talked about this with Ocean about how she has been all her life trying to help her mother and actually not talking to her mother was not rejecting her. It was just a different way of trying to help and so I was concerned about, Ocean you are a little girl still, you are not supposed to be the helper of your mother, adults help each other. You know she has family, she has friends, it s not up to you

Barbra: It about her own emotional state and she tries when we are arguing, she tries to help either me or him or even just calling [Inaudible 0:05:52] this morning, she is rubbing my back to make me feel better and I love her and appreciate her but we've, since Ocean's come to our house, nearly 5 years ago now or 4 years ago? 4 years ago, you know we've told her Ocean please you are the child now, let us fix stuff, let us, you know all her friends swarm up to Ocean because Ocean likes to fix everybody and fix all the situations right?

Cloe: That 's how [Inaudible 0:06:18] One cannot under estimate the protectiveness that children have towards their children. In the past, Ocean has always trying to be the helper to her mother to the point that she was loosing her own identity and direction in life. It is a good sign that she now seems to be letting go of that role. Now the father began talking about the event that Ocean had shared with us previously. When he took Ocean home from a party that she did not want to leave.

Albert: For me, I am one of the people that [Inaudible 0:06:59] and gives and so on and so on, so I mean there are times that I have asked her to change, when I last heard the change when I reflect and say I am going to make some changes myself, right? One of the big things that I understood that she came back and we were talking about is, she had wanted to go somewhere and Barbara went to pick her and the day was you are not going to stay there and when she came back,



Barbra will say to her, you should do something, you should do something, like somehow you should talk to us and I went from being a passive, caring, Albert [Inaudible 0:07:30] and if you don’t like this, maybe you should leave but I was trying to be somebody that I’m not and

Cloe: Well, I understand that, we all say

Albert: It took away that safety net that was always there. That [Inaudible 0:07:50] I was trying to please everybody.

Cloe: The father became tearful as he realized his terrible mistake. He should not have suggested that Ocean should leave home if she didn’t like the parent’s rules. He explains how he is caught between the love of his wife and his desire to please her and his love for Ocean and his wish to do the right thing by her. This is a common situation, where one parent is much more lenient that the other. This situation is even more aggravated when one of the parent is a step-parent. The father also realizes that by suggesting that Ocean could leave the home, he was destroying her most basic sense of certainty and security. Ocean had already had to leave the mother, now she was facing the possibility of her father.

Albert: I don’t know how [Inaudible 0:08:50] and I am sorry because I became and I think as individuals we should be individuals; we shouldn’t try to do things that are against our grain that makes us, especially when it comes to our identity

Cloe: When a parent makes a mistake it is important to apologize, the apology is healing because it eliminates confusion and confirms for the child the difference between right and wrong.

Albert: I always try to reach out and help her so many times my hands have slapped me [Inaudible 0:09:25] from people that didn’t care about themselves didn’t understand how much I care about ocean right? You know walk to school at 7 or 8 years old, 7 years old, walking 2 miles one day and just one day I’m on my way to work and I see this kid and I realize, its my kid and I stopped and she is like, ‘everything is fine Dad, everything is ok’, her food is got hair in it and its like that situation went on for 4 years, I could never do that at her age [Inaudible 0:09:53]

Cloe: She told me about all of that

Albert: To have her now and to have all these stuff happen in our lives so fast, so quick and so much, its just like it blew me away, its like I mean

Cloe: Let me tell you something that I want to tell that you have to be very careful. Sometimes our children relate more to what we say than what we actually do. So you have to be very careful about what you say you are going to do and then you don’t do because Ocean has a



tendency to fend for herself and so you came into the room and told her and maybe you wanted to live just live, so she decided to run away, you really didn’t mean that

Albert: No of course not

Cloe: Yeah I bet,

Albert: This was two month before [Overlapping 0:10:46]

Cloe: This is important, you talked about taking a bat to her boyfriend?

Albert: Oh yeah

Cloe: She wanted to take the bat to school to beat up another boy.

Albert: Yeah, yeah

Cloe: You actually didn’t beat anybody with the bat but she was ready to talk about just like she was [Inaudible 0:11:09] tremendous to stop. So I know you don’t do those things as an example but be careful about what you say, you understand what I mean?

Albert: Yeah

Cloe: You do?

Ocean: Yeah, thanks

Cloe: [Inaudible 0:11:27] like that and you want to be like him and so but you have to be very selective, he talks a tough talk but he doesn’t do those things.

Cloe: As a parent, it is easy to forget that everything you do and say, serves as a powerful example for your child. Who may take your word, more literally than you mean them. In case this father made ultimatums and threats, and Ocean ended up making those threats real. Now take a moment to ask yourself, as a parent do you ever make punishments or consequences that are confusing or they take away your child your basic certainties about relationships? Every child needs to have certain essentials they can count on no matter what, even if they misbehave. Such as love, their own belongings, their education, there future and their place in the family. If you begin to take away these essentials, the child can become confused and make bad decisions. Now Tony and I go back to talking about the difference about what the father says and what he actually does.

What he actually does

Tony: He is a lover and he does [Inaudible 0:12:42]



Barbra: But when you said fear and when he is scared he…

Cloe: He talks of that, yeah.

Albert: I’ve talked like I have been like vicious person it’s like the ultimate choice. I mean I don’t want have to make that choice but I’ll verbalize it, it’s like okay like I don’t want to ever show you this stuff, right but please understand it like when I was talking say that I will break your feet, you cant run away, you cant walk and I was prepared in my mind, I was actually thinking that that’s how scared I was, I was like whatever I have to do I’m going to do it [Inaudible 0:13:20] step likely enough maybe to break a toe or something but the same way I was seriously considering that I was going to have to hurt this child’s feet so that she couldn’t run and I mean I didn’t…

Cloe: It would be easier to just lock her up in her room.

Albert: Well we tried that too.

Cloe: One moment the father says maybe you should leave and soon after he is thinking of breaking her feet to prevent Ocean from leaving. When the father alternates between these extremes, it is no wonder that Ocean is confused about what’s right and what’s wrong and then stop hurting herself. What needs to change here is father’s example for Ocean. When people have pasts involving violence or drugs or alcohol abuse or when they have been in a war, they often struggle with memories of terrible things they had done long ago and this affects their behavior with their children. In the father’s case when communicating with his daughter, his focus easily drifts to violence and thinking. As s result, his communication with his daughter becomes violent. As a parent it is very important that you separate from mistakes you made in the past and set powerful standards for the way you communicate with your child today.

Now take a moment to ask yourself when you get angry with your child, what do you say? Do your words interrupt their basic sense of certainty in connection with you? If you do scare your children, do you later apologize so that they understand which behaviors are right and which are wrong. Now let’s return to Ocean’s family. As a father explains what triggered him on that night to communicate the way he did to Ocean.

Albert: What I’d say, you know the greatest thing about this is being able to sit down and be quite honest with myself about what I’ve done and who I am and deal with it because I want to learn from this. I never want to go through that. Well because that particular day like I said I was trying to be, I was trying in my heart, I was trying to say okay I will show Barbra just how tough I can be and I will show Ocean…

Barbra: Cause I always say he is not tough enough.



Albert: I will show Ocean a side of me that she’s never seen before, right and I thought well okay if you want to go there so badly and you would like to move in then it just kept escalating and worse for Ocean, I guess that was one of the safety…

Cloe: One of the biggest challenges for parents is to assert the authority in a firm loving way without violence. In this case, the father had been trying to demonstrate his authority as a father but in fact he violated Ocean’s sense of certainty of being his daughter. Now I needed to address one of the sources of problems in this family. The mother and the father have different standards for how much they should monitor and criticize Ocean’s choices. I am going to suggest a way that the parents can streamline their priorities for Ocean so that everyone can feel less stressed about Ocean’s behavior.

So in relation to that, there is one thing that I wanted to do to help you today here. That is I’d like you to think of what are the three most important issues in relation Ocean? Maybe four but better even than just three, the three things that are necessary for you to feel confident that Ocean is alright and just three. They must be important so that we can get a way from her trying to deal with too much at the same time and because a kid can’t grow up like that, it is too much, its too overwhelming.

Sometimes parents correct a young person in too many ways and expect too much in too many areas. The child can experience this not only as overwhelming but as a character attack where her very identity is threatened.

When a child has over-reacted in a dangerous way to her parent’s communication as the case here, it is important to limit the parents through 3 or 4 most important baseline requirements that they will ask of Ocean. These are the baseline requirements for Ocean to stay safe and out of trouble so that the family can avoid the type of problems that they have just been having.

I will ask the parents to agree with each other on these three or four important requirements and in this way I will guide them to what where they will be united in deciding on how to deal with Ocean instead of divided and in disagreement that only exacerbates Ocean’s confusion.

Barbra: I know I have a big part to play, I take responsibility for that. He’s been on me for even like, usually in the last, probably six months or eight months since Ocean went to high school, get off my back. Like I mean I look at what is important and what is not important today, and I say that before and I didn’t, do you know what I mean? Like there is always so much stuff, like I mean, I’ll catch myself before I say it and say like, that is not important because this is happening because of me. I love her to death



Cloe: It’s a mother reflect [Overlapping][18:52]

Barbra: Always, always and I mean, and its more when I get tired or I am hurting or I am feeling something then I take it over emotion, you know big time. I mean I see that so I’ve worked hard on that a lot last couple of weeks since she’s gotten home.

Cloe: What are the most important issues?

Barbra: We were talking about that the other day and I mean I came up with a couple

Albert: One was: stay at home and do your homework, its important and that is one of them. The other one was, we should dialogue, at least talk for half an hour, the other one I suggested is that we all hold hands and say, like Ocean may probably say a quick prayer of some sort and I guess you had said four, I guess the fourth will be stay physically fit. Because I think if you are physically fit, spiritually connected and you got dialogue as a family, I mean

Cloe: Okay, all those things said, just give him what the last few months have been, what are the most important issues that you wanted I would think for example; not doing things that are illegal, would you consider that that is primary important, you don’t want her to go to jail

Albert: We wouldn’t condone alcohol in privacy

Barbra: No of course and I mean honesty is huge and I mean for Ocean to be open and honest with us, whatever is going on in her life

Cloe: To the family. Okay but the illegal part is important because as we were talking, I kept, because I work in institutions for teenagers like you, I know what they are like. I kept imagining you in one of those places, it comes a point when even the fairy godmother here couldn’t get you out of it.

I am referring to Sage, Tony’s wife as Ocean’s fairy mother.

Not being in trouble with the law is really important.

Tony: That doesn’t come across as a surprise one because I think about all that stuff too but my way of thinking was okay. If I look after the spiritual stuff and I keep you, if you can pray everyday and dialogue for half an hour a day and we’ve been through what we’ve been through, I just felt like, everybody is the law, its going to be one of the things you go by because you want to be clear headed, you want to be AWAL [Inaudible 0:21:32] to be clear-headed enough because you can focus on various things that maybe important to you



Cloe: So how can I call this? [Overlapping 0:21:44] Then the other things are the means to get by, [Inaudible 0:21:50] so that’s good. There was another thing that you said, was honesty that combines with being able to go through the bible [Inaudible 0:22:00] everyday and fifteen minutes to tell you what she has been up to, what she is doing, communication part.

Barbra: Big time. That is so important, even yesterday when she got home from the mall, Ocean’s gotten in to a habit, you know, go to her room and closes the door and we don’t see her for an hour or two or whatever whenever she comes home and that started when she started, you know smoking pot or whatever, coming home long after school. Yesterday when I was changing Jacob’s [Inaudible 0:22:28] bolted right past us and I said ‘No! Stop! Stop! Come and show me what you’ve got’ right? Come and show me what you got to swing around that you know, going into her room and closing the door. I mean I would like to take the bolt off for a week so I can see her [Overlapping 0:22:50]

Barbra: So what would be a good time to have the [Overlapping 0:22:50]I love supper time.

Cloe: We had the honesty and [Inaudible 0:23:00] and we had not doing things that are really, what’ the third one?

Albert: I really for a physical being I’m definitely concerned about how I would want you to stay on top of that as far as gym goes and exercise and stuff goes.

Cloe: Take care of her values.

Barbra: Take care of her self

Albert: And we need [Overlapping 0:23:20]

Barbra: She wants to people over and wants to have friends over and stuff and there came a time even before all this happened Michael and Cody then there was Samantha and then there was Miranda and there was a whole group of people and everyday there was somebody else coming and Ocean stopped working out, she stopped communicating with me like after school. Sometimes we watched Dr. Phil or Oprah together and played with Jacob like all that stuff stopped and she was totally consumed with her friends and I think it’s really important even for me as individuals in the world is to take time off for ourselves. Sometimes Ocean forgets to do that so we have to train them so okay now it’s stopped.

Tony: So what you are saying is relationship with her friends is going to be narrowed down.



Barbra: It’s got to be balanced for her, Ocean needs time to take care of [Overlapping 0:24:14].

Albert: Monday to Friday you are going to have school, you are going to have…

Barbra: I don’t agree with that. What you are saying, I don’t agree with that at all.

Cloe: Well explain to me.

Barbra: Well he is saying Monday to Friday no friends in her life. School, family and Ocean time. I don’t agree with that.

Cloe: This is what I mean that we have to agree on. Because if you agreed…

Barbra: We tried that, remember we tried that and I said I didn’t think that was fair. Like Ocean is going to school and Ocean needs friends in her life so then I start, okay she goes to gym Monday and Wednesdays, so she has to school and then she has showers and stuff so on Tuesday and Thursdays maybe if it works into her schedule and there is nothing else going on, she can have someone over [Overlapping 0:24:57]

Cloe: If we have three things, if you want to [Inaudible 0:25:01] one of those three things then we can make but if the schedule is not crucial and important, you are just going to let her make her own schedule. So that’s basically what you have to decide. Is this of foremost importance? Maybe it is. It is up to you.

Barbra: I think it is.

Ocean: I think what they are trying to say is important to them as like the third most thing me being like caring towards myself like physically or health wise or emotionally or whatever, taking care of myself and taking time out to do so and so during, are you okay and are you okay and forgetting…

Tony: I want you to be accountable for all your decisions. Okay we are going to give you a format but I want you to be able to make the decision whether you are going to do my share of the night, sorry you cant call him because I don’t have [Inaudible 0:25:50] and be excited about care, or you cant call me now because I got homework, sorry you cant call right now because this is when we are going to have our supper, we are going to have our conversation…

Barbra: To do things that [Overlapping 0:26:04]

Tony: And make sure that your friends do not get above your rules or guidelines.



Cloe: [Inaudible 0:26:11] you want her to be on a regular exercise program, you want her to…

Barbra: Well she goes to the gym Mondays and Wednesdays and that’s important she does that.

Cloe: And not maybe not making Monday to Friday then not making it everyday…

Albert: It’s only Monday and Wednesday…

Barbra: No she’s talking about her friends.

Albert: Oh I’m sorry.

Barbra: Its when it fits like…

Albert: Just when it fits…

Barbra: I mean Ocean can approach us and if we feel because we are her parents, if we feel that it is not appropriate, it’s not a good day, then Ocean needs to learn to accept that and say okay you guys and carry on with her day.

Cloe: Let’s write down first what we already agreed on. We agreed on honesty, open communication

Albert: Prayer

Cloe: And prayer. We agreed on not doing anything that is likely to [Inaudible 0:27:22] and that includes alcohol, any type of drug; marijuana. Eating fruits, any kind of behavior, like violent behavior okay. So we are in agreement. What we are not in agreement is the point of taking care of herself exactly what that entails, what Dad you are saying that you would prefer to have a regular schedule that is the same. Barbara is saying she would prefer to have flexibility. The two of you would have to agree on this.

Notice that I constantly insisted that the parents agree. The parents’ agreement with each other there is more important than the content of what they agree on. Also they must both commit to none negotiation or even mentioning anything other than the three or four items that have been agreed on.

Albert: Okay, let’s just try, let me just try to clarify what I’m trying to say

Cloe: [Overlapping: 0:28:17]

Albert: So 12:00, so anyway I should call your friend [Inaudible 28:24] to 1.30. Can I go to my friends? Okay you can go to your friends. How



long can I stay at the mall and I would say stay at mall up to five o’clock, I will meet you at the food court. Okay when I get phone calls from I want to stay later and she calls me and says 6 I would come by and pick you about 6 and I go and pick her up. Every time these decisions are made, it’s the end, its final when I go to pick her up, she says that, her next request was, can I go to my friends place and spend the night. Well the reason I was just [Overlapping 29:02]

Barbra: Well she is a child and wants to

Albert: I understand, let me finish please. Anyway, now to me its like okay, you know very well to me the biggest was the ‘ifs’. If you can’t handle that conversation with your friends then you can ask me, if you are not sure your friend can fit in the, [Inaudible 0:29:28] please ask me. What it does to me is it opens up dialogue between you and her which you going to have babies to look after, you know you are going to have [Inaudible 0:29:32] on the plate

Barbra: But it’s a Yes or No sweetheart, its not a big deal

Albert: These decisions, personally I don’t feel like she can make these decisions without causing her some problem of some sort.

Barbra: Okay, that is what you are trying to say. You hear what he said, that is what is trying to say. We have to come up, we are going to fix that, we are going to talk about

Ocean: What [Inaudible 0:30:01]

Barbra: The answers we going to get

Albert: Well the answers

Barbra: All these questions that you asked that you are going to accept and you are going to get hurt that, ‘no you cant go to the mall till 1:30, no you cant go here, no you cant go to [Inaudible 0:30:13] whatever dad or Barbs…

Cloe: Let me help you with this. I think it is important to understand that when Ocean says can I stay until 6:00 or can I go to a friend’s house, she is asking you to understand her situation. So I think it would be very good instead of just saying no, it is important to say why.

Barbra: Of course, right.

Cloe: Explain to me why you want to do that.

Albert: I did that.

Cloe: Let me give you an example, the night at the Halloween party that caused this whole turmoil, she had a special situation that she would



really would have wanted you to understand which was that all her friends were fighting with each other then at 9:30 they had just made out so that it didn’t begin [Overlapping 0:30:35].

Barbra: But Cloe the same with the Halloween party I mean I understand that but the thing with the Halloween party which had been going on for three nights prior to the Halloween party. So we told her for two days before the party please don’t ask if you can spend the night [Overlapping 0:31:12]

Cloe: Let me finish my thought.

Barbra: She needs to understand that what we say is what’s going to happen not that’s right.

Cloe: I’m not saying no to that but what I am saying is if she had a chance to explain then say no and let her explain her situation and then if still you have…

Barbra: But Ocean has to learn accept that because I feel that she doesn’t for me.

Tony: She wont, if you just let her explain but you don’t hear her, it wont make any difference. She will suffer for her agenda.

Cloe: That’s what I mean here.

Tony emphasizes the importance of truly understanding. If the parents don’t take the time of understand Ocean’s needs and requests, then Ocean will feel rejected by the decisions they make. If Ocean feels rejected, she will not be able to give the parents the respect and the authority they want. Barbie has been raising her voice and speaking over me because she feels that her rules for Ocean are being challenged.

Ocean: The thing like you just said here if you can let me explain I don’t feel your like, I feel like you are saying you are okay. She can talk but the answer is still no.

Barbra: Right, of course not.

Cloe: Don’t make the decision hit her.

Barbra: No before. [Overlapping 0:32:33]

Albert: And even important even though we said no three days before that, [Overlapping 0:32:36]

Barbra: And there’s lots of times…



Albert: Should have been flexible and should have been yes. That would have been my take on that.

Barbra: What to stay at the party?

Albert: Three days before that you don’t understand I said no you don’t do this you don’t do that and then later on Halloween night it was like no you [Inaudible 0:32:50] three days before that but that particular situation I wanted to be flexible and say yes you can stay because I would have understood that, how much important it was to her.

Barbra: You would?

Cloe: You didn’t say that.

Albert: I told her.

Barbra: Did you?

Albert: Yes.

Cloe: Now we see one of the sources of the conflict of Halloween night. The father, the mother and Ocean were in a triangle that prevented them from hearing each other’s real needs. In the interest of her parental authority, Barbie had made a firm decision not to let Ocean stay later at the party. The father would have considered letting Ocean stay but Barbie had implicitly asked him to support her decision and her authority. The father was now in the middle position. Hearing opposite demands from both sides. If he lets Ocean stay at the party, Barbie would have taken that he was subverting her authority and siding with his daughter against Barbie. So the father took his wife side with such force that he was no longer hearing or understand Ocean who felt completely misunderstood and rejected and we know what happened after that. What the family needs is an agreement between the parents that is firm without not being rejected of Ocean needs and which is so strong that there is no risk or fear of the daughter standing between the parents,

So what helps when counseling the teenager is if you understand that all of her communication…

Barbra: So I get mixed messages because I have heard make your nos be no and your yes be yes.

Cloe: Say that again [Overlapping 0:34:28]

Barbra: If I have already said that you cant do that, right. Like say Ocean wants to go to a party on Friday night. She asks me today. Today is Monday and for some reason whether the place is at or whatever I say no sweetheart I don’t think so. Then on Thursday she approaches me and says ‘oh well this is going to happen and this is going to happen’



and even though I feel more comfortable about all of them, I am almost saying yes because I have already said no I thought you were supposed to stay at [Inaudible 0:34:58]

Cloe: No, why should you stay? No people make mistakes…

Barbra: No may be no and yes may be yes as parents. Didn’t they just air it last night?

Cloe: I don’t know.

Barbra: Obviously. [Overlapping 0:35:11]

Cloe: Listen to me for a moment first. People make mistakes and change their minds all the time. And so if you make a mistake and you didn’t have more information then you can change.

I am challenging Barbie’s idea that parenting should be based on rigid rules rather than understanding the particular child or circumstances. In the military, rigid rules are necessary, in a family they are not. Barbie will respond by revealing the real reason why she has been making her decisions rigid and permanent.

Or even if you get more information you may simply [Overlapping 0:35:48]

Barbra: I know some of my and this is going to be huge for me to say, some of my decisions are based on, feel like I have control as a parent in this relationship. So sometimes when I say that, I want Ocean to respect me for who I am and I don’t want to go back and say okay sweetie because there are a lot of times she’s asked and because I have said no already, I feel like I have to stick to that for her respect.

Cloe: She will respect you even more if she realizes that you really understand and that even though you love her, understand her, you still have to give her guidance and you still have to take responsibility and you have to be able to say no to protect her.

Barbra: Right.

Cloe: But you have to understand that teenagers communication a lot of the time is just an attempt to be understood because most girls this age don’t feel understood by their parents. They really don’t and whenever she says anything or makes a face or answers back or whatever it is that she does, just stop and think for a moment. Is there something she is trying to get us to understand? Let’s listen to what it is, let’s hear her point of view and then give her guidance because unconditional love is not enough, you have to guide her.

Barbie cries as she explains that the feeling underlying her rigid rules, is how difficult it is to feel accepted as a step mother. I suggest that



whenever Ocean seems demanding or unreasonable, Barbie should practice understanding. This is something that is easy to do and that will help her to feel better as a step mother. Now take a moment to ask yourself, can you think of something that your child does when they want to feel understood? Children are always testing their parents to see their love and understanding. They often do this by challenging you and watching whether you get angry or whether you will give them a loving response. Now ask yourself when your child tests you, how can you show them in a loving way that you are in charge and that you are taking care of them? How can you assert your parental authority by understanding their needs? Now Ocean will share her point of view.

Ocean: Like I said before with the saying yes say no thing, if you do say no, you have to give me reasons. Because you are just like no, why cause I try to understand more view and feelings towards this like maybe like try to make some more communication try to get it to go this way and this way. So we all understand the situation, right as full as possible. And if you say, if I asked you if I can go somewhere and you say no, I’m like why [Overlapping 0:38:30]

Cloe: I could say I have a bad feeling [Overlapping 0:38:33]

Barbra: And then Ocean will come back with something else [Overlapping 0:38:38]

Cloe: She is going to argue with you to death and she is old enough that she can talk anybody [Overlapping 0:38:47]

Barbra: And that’s why I have said for me it is easier for him to be the no and yes guy because it doesn’t go that much between those two, absolutely

Cloe: [Inaudible 0:39:00] are you in agreement with that or…

Albert: I don’t have any problem because what I did when I went to the mall last time, she wanted to go to her friend. So I asked her why and then I explained to her why it was important to me and for her that she should come home and it was okay and then

Barbra: They do well, I agree they do very well…

Cloe: Notice Barbie pointing out the bond of love between father and daughter. She doesn’t want to be the one to say no because she feels that as a step mother, she doesn’t have that kind of bond.

Well Barbie I want to say something and in regard to Ocean. It’s not her mother that is better than you. I think at this moment you have a baby and another on the way, you should choose whether you want him to take this on or you want to do it, it’s your choice, you have enough on your plate. Not that it’s, I am suggesting that you he do



what you tell him to do because you have a lot on your plate right now. Not because I don’t think that you would be perfect, of course not.

I am empowered by Barbie to be the one to decide who deals with Ocean emphasizing Barbie’s confidence and the fact that she is dealing with so much right now

Cloe: Ocean values connection with her family so when someone makes a decision, she wants to understand the reasoning and the emotions behind the decision. Now Tony will give the family his perspective on their communication styles.

Tony: The first thing I want to tell you is [Inaudible 0.41:14] when a teenager is talking, they are not efficient. It's not efficient. They are just talking to be understood and your job is to be a detective [Inaudible 0:41:22] with anyone [Inaudible 0:41:23]. They don’t want, they tell you things implicitly not explicitly. And so you have to become Sherlock Holmes to say what's really behind all these pieces. And they are not expecting you, she does the same thing. You are supposed to read their minds, you are supposed to know because they know that a woman would understand, a woman would figure out all this implicit communication. [Inaudible 0:41:42]. This young woman is a lot. She's bright as hell; she's developed significance by being everybody's healer and fixer. She's done it out of necessity with her mama you know and with you and she is driven. Second thing is she is hardly significant because you've told her a story. You've told her a story a million times about looking down this little baby girl and thinking what the hell am I doing with myself and that's where you change it, she is your angel girl, its the problem with that story. The story is great but you cant living the past story with her. You got to see what she is today because what it does it has created for her she cannot and does not want to be. She knows how to meld with any environment she is smart as [Inaudible 0:42:17] she knows how to get the right answer to the right person, whether it's me whether it's Pine Pearl whether it's you, she knows how to do that stuff part of this is been survival instinct to her. She said so herself we talked. Remember she said you know I was like; I'm a chameleon she said. She knows that and it's very obvious to me it's like she got on stage with one person and when you got on stage the second part you were you. You know the difference, she knows like you would choose presenting and then you know part of [Inaudible 0:42:39] you know I was fitting in and doing all stuff to be significant and the Ocean just shows Ocean, she is just a total law. So she has become the fix it person she has got a significance in that piece [Inaudible 0:42:50] to that piece. But she has a little threat. The threat is my father has an image of me and if I'm not that he will be destroyed. She is busy taking care of you trying to be perfect and she isn’t perfect. She isn’t got to be perfect and frankly if she was you would be screwed over. She needs to be able to have her dark side and her light side. She needs to have that in ways that are acceptable meaning that you are parents agree at a



appropriate the stage of her life but she got to be able to have that. She cant just be your little angel girl every moment because then she has to be fake with you. And when being fake with you now I got a real problem because now we don’t have a real relationship. And now she is losing so much trust because that's her mother, she doesn’t want to be like her mother. I just want to be in that place and yeah she is finding herself trapped into being that to try to please you to make everything ok because when she was telling you about that night, interesting thing was she was telling me all that stuff and I said what does all that mean? You know what was that really about? What did that mean, what was your father doing and everything else, and then she went that I was bad. And there was this little smile.

Cloe: Tony emphasizes the importance of understanding Ocean and her desire to help others. But most importantly to understand that as long as the father continues to hold Ocean on a pedestal as the angel that saved him she does not relate to Ocean as a human being with her faults and her dark side.

Tony: I'll show you the film I'll send the film. [Inaudible 0:44:18] smiling about and she was like I don’t know. So what was the smile about and she was like because you gave her attention because she doesn’t get any not matter what you do this will roll once in desperately for her mother and father. All humans do. She didn’t get it from her mother because her mother is the selfish person at this stage of her development she is the child so here is how she view her account. And with you she has to the perfect person also so that you will be okay, and you can feel like you’ve done a job and you haven’t failed, you don’t go to that fear place you are into where you are so scared that you love her so much and you don’t want to fail so much that the fear state that’s all it was. It’s just get the hell out of here and go somewhere else. Go be with her, that’s not what you want, that’s what you are saying out of fear like survival I will break your feet. You have to understand that whenever you say to a woman this is not true to admit, you can say wake up, do that stuff back and forth we can position anything we can even go toe to toe if that’s it [Inaudible 0:45:10] this conversation. I said one time you do that [Inaudible 0:45:15] if you don’t do place last window and she went hysterical. You threw this little plate in the last window, what the hell [Inaudible 0:45:21] you threw your plate on last window but the female physiology you and I process things when it’s words, it’s words. Certain words can get to emotion. All words can be processed emotionally by a woman. They feel those words; they make a picture in their head. She pictured you smashing her feet just trying to feel how my father, he loves me how could he do that?

Cloe: The father needs to understand that his teenage daughter processes language in a much more emotional way than he does as a grown man. When he says something violent, his daughter feels it in her body and even remembers it as a violent event. Clearly this is the case as Ocean has acted on his threats.



Tony: so part of the job is her trying to be perfect so that you will love her. Her not wanting to fail and needing to be, what she is looking for right now still she wants freedom but I think that somehow she is smart enough to know that even though I am a teenager I can do anything I want I am smart as any adult and so forth, I don’t know about life experience and I make mistakes here she, there’s a little bit of her that still respects me for [Inaudible 0:46:27] and from you especially. It was an excuse besides being perfect. Now you have another woman in your life. She wants to be the woman in your life. It’s not bad, she just wants to be more and you’ve got another and what is interesting is I think she feels loved by Barbie but Barbie also is coming out central. But and one of the [Inaudible 0:46:49] because you are not. Because what happens is you can be but you are also thinking all the time what she didn’t have, what she didn’t do the whole story of that is not lining you to be present now sometimes to make decisions for what you are right for. That is what she is saying. She’s saying you are not tough enough on Ocean.

Cloe: Tony refers to Barbie as command central because she has taken such a strict leadership position with Ocean even though she is not the biological parent and even though it puts a strain on al of her relationships. The leader in the family is the person who sees the family’s needs most clearly and takes action even when it means being firm or being perceived as the bad guy. Tony is telling the father that idolizing Ocean and being so afraid of hurting her; he is disempowering himself as a father. When he doesn’t do the father’s job, the mother has to step in and this creates the triangle where the mother has to be the bad guy in both relationships so much of the time. Instead the father has to honor his wife first and he must take up a position of firm guidance with Ocean then both parents would be united and would be able to handle any family problem.

Tony: You have to honor your wife first and she’s got to learn to respect that so it’s like that when she’s a mom. The great thing about this family is that there is magical I see that there wasn’t in my family is that mom and dad in this family are meeting, share the blame, they come first, they come first no matter what. These kids, I thought this kids would feel something but they don’t they all feel loved.

Cloe: Tony is referring to Sharon and Bill who are Tony’s in laws and Barbie’s adoptive parents. Tony teaches that parents have to put their relationship first in the family so that the children grow up with an example of committed love that they can emulate when they become adults.

Tony: What is amazing though is that’s why she wants to love you completely, because she is there. What she will start to do is she’s going to angle towards the baby, she’s going to angle towards Ocean and you are going to have a disaster. Ocean will not grow up healthy because for sure the love of her dad as the primary love of her life and



she can see that that’s more important honoring a relationship between those two and subconsciously that’s what happened with her. She will love her again and her husband will be a secondary love and she will never be happy. You cannot be happy without relationship. There is a hierarchy to relationship. She has to know that you honor this woman first and that you worship your daughter but this woman comes first always and I would love and die for you as my daughter. She has to see that line. If she doesn’t see that line, you don’t help her, you hurt her and you hurt your wife and hurt yourself.

Cloe: When parents don’t put each other first, there is a tendency to form what is called a cross generation coalition. A cross generation coalition is a coalition between a parent and a child where the other parent feels disempowered and left out. For instance the father might find himself in a coalition with Ocean against Barbie and Barbie might find herself in a coalition with her son against the father. These coalitions are conducive to conflict and disturbing behavior because a parent is deliberately or unwittingly empowering a child against the other parent. A good family organization is one where the hierarchy is clear. The parents are in alliance and they are both in charge of their children. For this to happen, the parents have to put each other first.

Tony: And the more you do that, the more you triangulate with trying to fill Ocean’s every need, I love her so brother you know, I would bow for her, I would do anything for her. But I wont do anything for her that will hurt her including things that will make me look good. And I said she might be [Censored 0:50:37] about it later because I love her, I’ve got to serve her and I know that she can be as bright as can be but she doesn’t have enough life experience to know what it means. She can stand up and look to circles among her friends you don’t work circles around me. So I can see what she’s doing. Some of it I don’t see it but I just let it go place in everything else so your job, you are the critical component here. It’s not Barbra, it’s your as Bill has said wow because I am a man, I have to honor my wife first. I have to love my wife first instead of living in fear that Ocean wont feel loved by Mya that’s [Censored 0:51:12] she knows you love her, all you’ve got to do is not say the things you’ve said, what you are again and all you have to do is to take the time and take time consistently to be with her and then there wont be competition. Because she is not doing it consciously. It’s not like she is consciously trying to beat on Barb. She just wants love.

Cloe: now that Tony and I have clarified the agreement between the parents, it’s time to return to the three or four requirements that Ocean will have to follow in order for her parents to feel that she is okay. Remember the requirements so far were first that she cannot do anything illegal and second that she has to be honest with her parents and able to discuss life with them. Now I am going to suggest another base line and requirement in which the parents should agree. Ocean is too young to have sex. Many parents find this topic very difficult to



address with a child but that is all the more reason to make it clear in the basic requirement.

I don’t think that Ocean is physically, emotionally or spiritually ready, spiritually ready to have sex. In human beings sexuality has been aped at that’s why in marriages it is considered a sacrament because marriage is what unites a man and a woman in a sexual relationship and when sex happens without that kind of love and spirituality to a very young grown it’s damaging. So I think that you need to protect her from pre marital sexual relationships with people there is not a spiritual context of love because she is just going to get hurt. It’s not a good thing.

Albert: I spoke to him.

Cloe: Ultimately I think it is in her control.

Albert: It is in her control.

Cloe: It’s not in anybody’s control, it’s her. And you have to understand that spirituality and sexuality are related. Sex is not like you give a piece of cake like something just pleasant to do. It touches your soul and maybe fortunately you don’t know the pain that comes from the sexual relationship [Inaudible 0:53:29]

[Overlapping 0:53:31] too young for that.

Cloe: You have to protect her as far as possible and then have your thing. There’s nothing wrong with sex when it is in a committed loving spiritual relationship.

Barbra: She is too young to experience that.

Cloe: But of course she can have that. This brings me to something else important that I wanted to say today. We have to talk a little bit about Ocean’s mother because one thing that concerns me very much is that when Ocean decided to cut off her mother, and not to speak to her anymore, she became her mother, she began to do things that her mother does.

After addressing the issue of Ocean’s pre mature sexual relationship and the pain that it could cost, I address anther pain that has not been talked about. Its true that Ocean seems to have stopped trying to help her mother but then what she had began to do was even worse. Alcohol drugs and sex all behaviors reminiscent of her mother.

Tony: Give us some examples.

Cloe: Alcohol

Barbra: Smoking pot.File: Understanding teen intervention

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Cloe: Smoking pot, irresponsible behavior like walking away, running away like live in the streets. So I don’t know what the solution is. I think that it would be much better for Ocean to have some communication with her mother or some little thing that she does or something. We have to protect her from becoming her mother. That’s what I am saying. When you cut somebody off, you tend to incorporate them. When you got mad at your father, you began to do the things that your father had talked about that you would never do and [Overlapping 0:59:31] they are bad for example taking the bag of somebody else

Ocean: I never [Inaudible 0:55:17]

Albert: I think we sensed, we used to pray everyday and everyday we always put her mother [Inaudible 0:55:22] we’ve done this like six or seven years great and then the last year because we were seeing so many changes going on with her mother, I had gotten your acquaintance over and I had seen Ocean really so large and she was so filled with the relationship and then her mother fell off the way side and then I see Ocean slowly start to be turning again and I was thinking like, and then I would, like I didn’t have a proper situation so maybe it might be easier if she doesn’t hear her name anymore and then it might be easier, okay I don’t want you to talking to her because you are always promising her stuff and you never do it. So we just started walking and then I started realizing that after a period of time that I thought my own hired heart I said this one day, you know what Ocean, I think we should be buying your mother a gift and I think we should probably, immediately it was like there was no hesitation at all and I thought shit here I go again and I have made a mistake.

Tony: How did you feel when you last actually saw your mom?

Ocean: It really, like I said before, it’s closure honestly because what I said before like I had always been like what a loving mom because she would always be there whenever like try give and get in touch and all that shit whenever I would respond to it in the same way because I didn’t want to like make her feel hurt, or rejected or whatever, right. I just wanted to blah, blah, blah but because I am not that way anymore, I understand the way her mind works and the way I should be and the way things work for the better, because me responding saying yes is not going to benefit anybody and that’s like lying to myself and saying that she does love me or she does miss me is like one of the first things she said when we got upstairs was well I miss you so much and instantly I am like don’t even go there, do not touch that, like don’t because it is bullshit. Because even when she was in like a career before they wouldn’t let her to talk to me because they told her like you are using your children. They don’t miss you because she was always I need to talk to, she has to talk to me, she misses me, she needs to hear from me. like well she doesn’t, she knows your life, she knows that you love her and whatever she doesn’t need to hear you talk to her all that which was a realization to me too but like



which is like [Inaudible 0:57:47] back like whatever form the way and I cant because it is dump and I don’t want to do that because it is wrong, it’s not real and I cant communicate with her like anyway because, like I couldn’t talk to her about all this and stuff because there is no reason, cause it’s like, it’s not my mom, it’s…

Cloe: Ocean let me say something. The big way [Inaudible 0:58:07] in her own way she loves you.

Ocean: Oh I know.

[Overlapping 0:58:11]

Cloe: And when she misses you and wants to talk to you, she’s real not fake, she really loves you. It’s just she has her own way of loving. It’s not a maternal way. Let me tell you something some parents are real parents, like their father is a real dad; some parents are more like an aunt or uncle. So if you thought of her as an aunt not as a mother, she is your aunt, she is there sometimes and she is affectionate and maybe she is even funny and fun and then she disappears like an aunt or an uncle does, doesn’t show up for months, then appears again and she is loving as nothing had happened, that’s an aunt and you can still love her as an aunt. She doesn’t behave like a mother. That is all you have to accept

I am giving Ocean a way to love her mother as an aunt without being constantly frustrated and disappointed because the mother doesn’t behave like a mother.

Ocean: No she’s not an aunt or a mother. She’s just like what she claims she is mom like not technically I wouldn’t even consider because Barb put a, my mom has never been my mom. Like she never talks to me like…

Cloe: She said [Inaudible 0:59:31]

Ocean: No she’s not. She is a stranger I know all too well because that’s why I don’t connect with her, touch her because it is not real, it’s just not you, it’s [Overlapping 0:59:45]

Cloe: I know I never said that.

Ocean: And I know she loves me and she may miss me but the reason I don’t connect and talk with her is because there is no reason because I know she is on drugs and stuff [Inaudible 0:59:55]

Cloe: Your pain, you would like her to be your mom [Inaudible 1:00:00] and that’s what causes the pain but maybe over the time, not today, not right now but at some point in time, you will recognize that she loves you all way that is more similar to an aunt or to a cousin [Overlapping 1:00:15]



Barbra: Well it takes years for a child to understand. I just understood that with my mother in the last five years after that she was my mother. Like there was a time that I hated her and I thought she didn’t love me and I thought I know my mother doesn’t love me, the only way she knows how to love me, you know what I mean honey. It takes years [Overlapping 1:00:34] my natural mother and it took, probably [Inaudible 1:00:40] so 28, 29 years old, four years ago. I finally understood my mother and now I can accept her for who she is and you know…

Tony: [Inaudible 1:00:49] a controversy there that your mother called and you just hung up the phone.

Barbra: Hey I’m done with her now.

Tony: See that, this is lady is this age, I am done with her right, you know what I mean, and it’s their survival…

Cloe: The reality is you are never done with your mother and …

Barbra: True.

Ocean: Yeah that’s what I am saying, I am not done with her but I said no.

Barbra: But Ocean is not getting what, I think Ocean is not getting what she means and of course [Overlapping 1:01:19] she is but

Cloe: She has [Inaudible 1:01:22]

Barbra: But when her mother is here and I am across the room Ocean I mean in her heart she would love it from her mother, of course she would. It is beautiful that she feels that way towards me and I am glad that I can give her that but it is not the same for Ocean. Ocean needs her mother, Ocean wants her mother…

Tony: But the plain reality and this is the reality you’ve got to remember. This is the spiritual faith you’ve got to remember. You’ve got to see that God gave you a mother and you’ve got to take the joys of that and see that the mother that bore you physically is focused on herself and she is an aunt or uncle at best.

Ocean: When she was warm, it sounds like…

Cloe: You can accept that and you can caress her also and just say no there’s time. It’s a sign of affection.

[Overlapping 1:02:09]

Tony: Remember that time when you dad had that conversation with you and the next morning he went to [Inaudible 1:02:13] like what, how can he do that after last night? Because what we did last night was a



scared little boy freaked out, feeling like he is failing you, don’t look like that because someone is screaming at you. Like every communication we’ve ever been will end up with one or two things, it’s either a cry for help or it’s a loving response. That’s all there is. When people are angry and piss you off, they are just screaming out and saying ‘oh I feel insignificant, I feel unloved, I feel unworthy, I feel’ that’s all they are really doing and so most people respond with a cry for help with a cry for help which is what he did. When he did that the next morning, was he loving you this morning? He was loving you 100%, that was real love you guys gave the next morning but you couldn’t feel it course of your rules. If he treats me like that it means you don’t love. You’ve got to get it in black and white it is not that way sweetheart and your mother coming and doing this with you, what you think is playing games with you, is just you scared of opening up and feeling and you are hurting them seems like she loves you. It doesn’t look like it and you don’t want to believe it and even if they smack your little tights, it doesn’t seem sincere but the tightness is she is beating herself up because she knows she hasn’t been there for you, she’s hoping she can reach you but afraid she wont so she is ending up in ruins. Like even at face value it doesn’t look very loving when she is saying this. It looks what you call fake. What you are calling fake is internal pain. She beat, no matter how selfish she is, she beats herself on the ground and that’s why she still abuses.

Albert: [Inaudible 1:03:35] so one moment she tries to show her affection, the other 15 years has been Ocean has set on the outside of the door waiting for her mother to come out through that door and later what time she met her mother on mothers day only for her mother to show up four days later. So I mean this knowledge, or this system or this pattern has been so long that now all over sudden everybody is saying Ocean you don’t have to feel this way and this is her, this is how she feels like, shake, get your hands off me, don’t touch me right. What we are saying to her the reason [Overlapping 1:04:07] she is trying not to be hurt again which I understand.

Cloe: Ocean frustrations and pain about her mother stems from her wish that her mother would be able to be a real mother to her. At some point in her life, Ocean needs to come to terms with who her mother really is to accept that she cannot change her mother and to accept her as a member of her family like an aunt.

Ocean: Because it’s like she knows or thinks that I will pull away. She knows I wont and that’s why I pull away because she is so ‘oh Ocean I love you, I miss you’ and she is the same pattern as she has always been all my life.

Tony: It won’t change her.

Cloe: You are still thinking you could change.File: Understanding teen intervention

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Tony: Ocean do you think that you can fix her? The only thing that is going to fix her, if Annie is going to fix…

Barbra: Do you hear what they are saying honey?

Ocean: I do.

Barbra: By you trying to change, is another way of you trying to fix your mom to come back to how you want her to be.

Tony: You think you are getting leverage if you don’t give her love then she will change.

Ocean: Know what, like it’s disgusting when she touches me because I don’t want her to because it’s my part obviously I want to help her but I don’t want her to touch me.

Tony: You don’t want to hurt any more. You are sick of being hurt by her. You are sick…

Ocean: It’s the same pattern, it’s not my mom, it’s some [Censored 1:05:21] person. My heart was like don’t touch me because it’s just like some stranger trying to do that. It’s the exact the same thing and I don’t want that that’s why I am like don’t, like whatever right.

Tony: The more [Inaudible 1:05:35] the feelings are just going to come up honey because you do want her love. So what you have to do is you have to accept her love and what portion she can give and not make it fake and not be hurt and just say this, you have to change your perspective and say I know it’s disgusting. I have love here more than I could ever want if I could just open and trust and take a hold of this woman. Because this woman is choosing me, she isn’t just choosing me for army. If you think that [Censored 1:06:01]

Albert: Are you saying that when we are standing down, [Overlapping 1:06:07]

Tony: Are you hearing me right now?

Ocean: Yeah.

Tony: She is choosing you not because he is Annie, and not just to please Annie. You get that?

Ocean: Yeah.

Tony: You really [Overlapping 1:06:13]

Tony: Because she can do a lot to try and please her but I think you know Barbra well enough to know that she speaks her mind in ways that are



not always easier but she has chosen to love you. She’s afraid you don’t love her. You need to take all that love and fear you have about your mother and give it to your mother. And know your [Inaudible 1:06:33] it’s not like she is a stranger, she is your aunt because you are going to see her now and looks up for love she goes, you know the love she goes most is the love she knows how. And that will gradually soup. Throughout all your pain you said she is a stranger all that it is doing is more hardening of your heart piece that’s going to hurt you anyway. That’s what worries me. It’s going to hurt you whether you know it or not. What works in a moment, it’s easier; it’s so much better that when you bottle up. You love me or not, you are in or not that’s the game that you played and that hurts you with your daddy that hurts you with Barbie that hurts you with you, that the game you’ve got to change. Life is not black and white. Black and white is so much easier because it is easier to close the door open the door, right. And I’d rather close it if I am going to be hurt. But honey you’ve got to open and open and open and the more you open and go through that pain, there’s more likely you are going to be. What you can do to tame the pain is you can do, what we are saying is that she brought me in this world, she is my aunt. This is mom and you’ve got to give all your love and gratitude to her and take all that sense you hear from her and if you know anybody that fights with your mom and with her you’ve got to say. This is real, this emotion that I have I appreciate it that I have [Inaudible 1:07:40] that for her has won and I know in my face that she loves me and even though it doesn’t look like. You’ve got to go to your faith, accept a little bit of love that she has and stop trying to change her. Pulling your love away from her is not going to make you better. So it’s both…

Tony emphasizes that not only that Barbie is the real mother but that Barbie had a choice and chose to love Ocean and to be her mother. The more Ocean can accept Barbie’s love, the easier it would be for her not to live in pain about her biological mother and the easier it would be for Barbie to feel empowered and appreciated as Ocean’s real mother.

Tony: And Albert that’s also helping you, protect you. The more these walls are put up of pain, the more pain you are going to be in because other robe you put your tiger box and pretty soon you are alone and there’s nothing you can feel anymore. These tears you are having are good feelings that they hurt, they are a good feeling. Now you’ve got to say how can I use this? She is my aunt, when she touches me, she does [Inaudible 1:08:39] when she gets out of her drug stupor she’s going to miss me. It hurts and I want it I always want that. I have got to go to my favorite and say dad give me more and dad worships me maybe too much. Not to worry.

Albert: Well there’s [Inaudible 1:08:55] what I understand by you making a decision even though you are among strangers that by you making that decision it would make your world easier to make the same decisions on and I am going to run away, okay I am going to do drugs,



okay I am going to break the law because they are going against the most sincere thing in the world that you need for identity and connection which is her mother and you know the state that she is in, right. So that’s what I think I am hearing. So basically what I am hearing is please Alison, we understand how much you hurt and the pain is there but please [Overlapping 1:09:33]

Barbra: That day your mama called and I talked to her right, and I told Ocean that I talked to her with love like I talked to her but when she needs to do stuff because I have compassion for her because she is one of us, she is a drug addict and she is sick. I know that she loves Ocean; I know she misses Ocean and I need, it disgusts me sweetheart when I see her touching you.

Tony: Are you scared of the letter that you’ve given her is going to cause any unwanted clarity or…

Albert: Can I tell you what her mother is? A mother is unconditional love. That’s what you wanted and your mom doesn’t have that right now.

Cloe: But in her spirit she does.

Tony: In her spirit she does but not in her behavior. This woman wants your love so bad more than she will ever tell you or admit. She wants your love so bad, look at the [Inaudible 1:10:15] when you said that. She wants your love because she loves you. She loves you and she’s afraid it’s not being reciprocated and she is damn fearful and she’s still trying to hook you up with your mother. Now if you want some demonstration of someone giving you some love here is somebody who wants your love. What we should be doing is going to bed, close the door but she keeps thinking about what you need. Whether it’s her needs or not that’s what a mama does and anybody can be a mama or a dad. What it means is caring completely for you not even if it means a loss to her. Look at her face right now, look at her. She worships you. You’ve got more love in this woman right here than you can possibly imagine. You want your daddy’s love, you want your mamas love it’s like it’s slapping your face and you are not seeing and it doesn’t look like it because they want you to get scared. What do you get when you get scared?

Ocean: [Inaudible 1:11:06]

Tony: [Inaudible 1:11:13] you’ve seen it. And how did you, that was hard, no, no, no and you are like you don’t understand me and all of this is fear. So you’ve got to remember every communication is a loving response or a cry for help. She is crying to you saying no, no, no. she’s saying please respect me, please show me that you know that I love you and that you will honor me. You don’t want her here to honor you by giving you the freedom of choices also and understand you but you are not taking enough time to understand her. You ought to move her



[Inaudible 1:11:37] but you don’t understand her completely. If you understood her, you will be filled up; your mama womb will get filled.

Ocean: I am glad you are, like told him like he has to stop to try and please me because for Barb is like forgotten about right here, is like respected well she should…because like I see that he can turn around and please me, he puts her at a lower level than me right. Don’t do that because she is [Inaudible 1:12:22] you’ve got to put her up there right.

Cloe: Ocean is telling the father that how upsetting it is to see him putting his daughter above his wife. This confirms what every child feels but which few parents realize. Even though a child may want to be a parents favorite and may even attempt to engage one of the parents in a cross generational coalition, the child knows for her own sake, and for the family’s sake, the parents have to put each other first. Now listen to Ocean’s explanation to this.

Ocean: Which so I am happy extremely that you’ve mentioned that because it’s like you don’t understand the process that way because you may not notice that I wont accept it whatever but you have to understand like I know you love me, right like you don’t have to like tell her like no, like Barb wait don’t do that because you might hurt her and try and process everything that you do well because you don’t have to. You don’t have to second guess telling me something or mentioning something or doing something because I know you love me. You don’t have to show it all the time or put her in a lower level to make me feel higher because I don’t. I don’t want you guys to stand wherever I stand and we are all like equal level and you guys have to be like you said possibly like higher because you have to stay strong. Because if you guys have no communication or cant love each other, respect each other, if you don’t do that then you cant do the same towards me either. So you guys fight or whatever, you don’t respect her or talk to her down or she talks to you down and then you guys are angry anyway and you come out angry towards me. So really you have to put her above me, sometimes, all the times whatever the case maybe in order to make the whole thing work. I don’t feel bad at that either because I understand that.

Cloe: That’s wonderful.

Ocean: Yeah.

Albert: Honey that’s beautiful.

Tony: That’s your own selfish self and you know what will happen to her and that will always never as hard but it is priority for focus because that’s what you want from [Inaudible 1:14:32]

Cloe: The basis of a happy family is a firm and loving hierarchy with both parents united in friendship, love and in their duty, guidance for the



children. When Ocean is asking the father to put Barbie first, she is asking him to diminish the triangle that was causing all the three of them so much pain. When the father is no longer constrained by his feelings for his daughter, he can honor his wife. When he is present in honoring his wife, Barbie can relax more in relation to Ocean because she can trust him to be a firm and loving father. When the father and mother are agreed on how they are going to parent Ocean, then the challenges of raising a teenager no longer threaten their marriage and the structure of the family. Now take a moment to ask yourself as a parent do you put your marriage partner first or do you put your children’s needs first? Does your partner feel respected, desired and loved over and above the children? Do your children see you honoring your partner on a regular basis? For instance, when your partners asks you to do something regarding the children, do you honor their wishes? Do you support your partners request or do you subvert your partners request by joking about it? Ask for the children’s permission as well even though they are not the parents, let your children talk you out of honoring your partners request or dispute your partners request in front of the children instead of supporting them first and discussing it in private later.

When you honor your partner’s needs and wishes first, you support the healthy hierarchy that is essential to a functioning family. When you don’t honor your partner’s needs, even if you disagree with their request, you are creating a cross generational coalition, giving the child more power than your partner.

Now that the father is agreeing to take on more of a leadership position, Tony is going to talk about helping Barbie to let go of some of the control and authority that she has been using. Tony jokes about Barbie’s authoritative communication style by calling it sergeant major and suggest that they have a ceremony where they put sergeant major to rest.

Tony: Well you tell me what’s the announce of yours, what are you going to do?

Albert: First I am going to go to my heart and I am going to be the high hierarchy.

Tony: Not for me, from you heart.

Albert: From my heart and Barbie will be number one and then I will just take control. I will take control of the environment.

Tony: Playfully, warmly in your heart

Albert: [Overlapping 1:17:28] I’m talking about the decision making when it comes with of course [Inaudible 1:17:36]

Tony: What about her, please her, love her and honor and…



Albert: I am going to do what I think is best for her and I am going to make decisions, I am going to make tough decisions. [Overlapping 1:17:47] open as I have ever been. Lot’s of [Inaudible 1:17:52].

Tony: What could she do that will disappoint you enough that you didn’t love her?

Albert: Gossip.

Tony: Does she have to be the perfect angel child?

Albert: No.

Tony: Does she have to be the one that [Overlapping 1:18:11]

Cloe: the basis of a healthy family structure is the parents’ co leadership and guidance of the children. That means hierarchy where the parents occupy a higher leadership position in the family. When one or both parents don’t make this a priority, or when the parents consistently put one of the children’s needs over the needs of the other parent, the family structure is weakened.

In Ocean’s family, the father was so afraid of rejecting Ocean that he weakened himself in his authority to father because he was always double checking with Ocean about what she was feeling, his leadership suffered. He was criticized by his wife and he found himself in an impossible middle position between Ocean and Barbie where he had to appease Ocean while proving his toughness to his wife. This put Barbie in a vulnerable position and as a step mother because she consistently had to be the bad guy in relation to Ocean. So on that Halloween night, when Ocean was asking special permission to stay over, the father in order to prove himself to his wife spoke in such a tough way to Ocean that she became confused and violent and Ocean felt the safety net of her family collapse. When that happened, Ocean felt that she had nothing to stay for and fell for behaviors like cutting, doing drugs and planning to run away. Now by strengthening the communication patterns in the family, we have strengthened the family. This can only happen when the mother and father are united in mutual respect and trust and when they put their relationship first so that they can be united and strong in dealing with the challenges of raising a teenager.


32 - Systemic Thinking - Ocean 2 - Transcript

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Transcript of 32 - Systemic Thinking - Ocean 2 - Transcript