F R U I T G A R D E N E R
Something More About PersimmonsStory and photos by Duane Wieden
ecause it is rare indeed to come across any article dedicated to persimmons, especially
one that discusses them at any length, I very much enjoyed reading "Persimmons:
Orchard Sugar and Spice" in last year's July & August issue. However, even though it
is clear that the author of the article exercised a great deal of care in presenting information
about the persimmon, there were nevertheless certain items of note on which I felt com-
pelled to ofFer comment. My perspective on this unique and wonderful fruit comes from
having grown up on the University of Californiat South Coast Field Station, where I annu-
ally enjoyed the harvest of oriental persimmons.
I fell in love with persimmons as a child,
and to this day they remain my favorite fruit.
Incidentally, at the dme of this writing (July
2004. -Ed.) I have been researching this
subject for more than two years, and am just
about halfway done with a book I am writ-
ing on the oriental persimmon, DioEyros
hahi.lhave also surveyed the persimmon
collections (both USDA and UC Pomolory)
at the -Wolßkill Experimental Orchards in
\7inters, Calif, and I have my own oriental
persimmon collection of sorts.
Persimmons Could Be a Major Crop\Zith proper selection ofthe right cul-
tivars it is today possible to produce high-
qualiry persimmon crops over a continuous
three-month harvest period. Additionally, I
believe that the implementation of simple
changes by persimmon growers in Caliörnia
could change persimmons from a minor fruit
crop to a fruit crop of much higher dollar
yield, as has been done for fruit such as the
Chinese gooseberry (kiwi), and the alligator
pear (avocado). However, a detailed review
of rhese topics would constitute a separate
article at the least, and they will be covered
in depth when my book is published.
Differences Must be UnderstoodIt is imponant to note that when compar-
ing the two mqor Diogyros types that are
grown in America-D. uirginiana, the Ameri-
can persimmon, and D. hahi, the oriental
persimmos-there are critical differences be-
tween the fruiting habits of each persimmon
rype that need to be understood. I have pre-
sented a comparision bötween American and
oriental persimmons in the table on the facing
page. In summary, what you can see from
the information presented is that, if you have
Il
It!
the opportunity to do so, you might want to
grow some of the better oriental persimmon
cultivars that are available. Please note that the
terms PCA, PCNA and PVNA (used below)
are defined in the table.
Some recommended varieties of PCA,
or'toft-ripe," persimmons are Hachiya and
Saijo. Hachiya is commonly available and is
the commercial standard of soft-ripe persim-
mons in California. Saijo means 'the
very
best," and was at one time offered by L.E.
Cooke Company, though they no longer
produce it. Saijo is indeed the best soft-ripe
fruit I have tasted and, who knows, L.E.
Cooke might even resume production if
given cause through sufficient demand.I hesitate recommending PCNA" or
"firm-
ripe" (or'äpple"), persimmons because in my
opinion the best of these are not commercially
available at this time. kt me say howwer,
that the Jiro has been California's persim-
mon industry standard for firm-ripe fruit,
and out of the firm-ripe varieties available in
California today from reputable sources, it is
probably one of the best. Howeve! marketing
choices have been made by certain nurseries
and growing consortiums (which I do not
endorse), to narne all of their firm-ripe fruit
Fuyrr. This is a grave mistake and a gross error
because no nursery supplier in Caliörnia to
date has the true Fuy'u (Fuyrrgaki), and few if
any even know what they taste like. Although
some wholesale nursery suppliers such as
Orange County Nursery have renamed their
Jiro to Fuyrr this past year, dont be fooled: no
one has the Fuyu yet. If you buy a persimmonfruit called
'F.ty.t' in a farmers market envi-
ronment or in the store it will most probably
be Jiro, and might be Izu, or Hana Fuyu or
Imoto Fuyu or one of several other types of
firm-ripe persimmon fruit, but it will not be
the real Fury. This lumping together of firm-
ripe varieties into a single name is a regional(California) problem. In Japan, firm-ripe vari-
eties are kept distinct and separate-a Jiro is a
Jiro, a Fupr is a Fu1'u, and an Izu is an Izu. By
the way, there is no Jiro Fuyu, it is simplyJiro.
In reference to P\4r]A. or cinnamon-
class, persimmons one of the best of these
that I have tasted is the Ama-Hyakume.
The challenge with PVNA persimmons,
however, is that you have to plant a pol-
linator-i.e., an oriental persimmon with
a suffrcient number of male f1655665-16
adequately pol l inare your cinnamon per-
simmon. The only pollinator I know that is
capable of such pollination is called Choco-
late-and it is available from L.E. Cooke.
Be aware howeve! that the Chocolate per-
simmon is such an eicellent pollinator that
all of your oriental persimmons, regard-
less of rype, will either be fully or mostly
seeded. This trait is rypically considered
commercially undesirable in firm-ripe or
soft-ripe persimmons, though it is necessary
if you are growing cinnamon persimmons.
\7hile you could grow seedless cinnamon-
class persimmons and üeat them, in doing so
you would lose the flavor complexities that
set these wonderfi.rl persimmons apart in a
class by themselves. Although some other
cinnamon persimmons such as Maru and
Nishimura'Wase have sporadic male flow-
ers, those that do occasionally occur on these
varieties are neither profixe, virile or hardy
enough, nor do they occur in adequate abun-
dance to ensure the pollination of the fruit on
these trees. Nor will Fuyu (meaningJiro) noq
Imoto Fuyu nor any other oriental persim-
mon variety on the market today in California
other than Chocolate sufficiently pollinate
the Nishimura'Vase ("Coffee-Cake") and
thus ensure that you the consumer c:tn eat its
fruit fi.rlly pollinated and firm-ripe. Several
years ago I spoke at length with Ed Laivo of
Dave \Tilson Nursery about this matter, and
he emphatically recommended planting my
Nishimura \7ase near a Chocolate persim-
mon. The firm is aware of the problem, yet
after more than two years, it has not appropri-
ately changed its marketing labels. Neither has
it changed the advenising description on its
fruit reference guide or the company website.
All of these things should reflect the need for
planting a Chocolate persimmon as a pollina-
w *or " *BER & DECEMBER 2oot CALIFORNIA RARE FRUIT GROIiü'ERS. INC.
F R U T T G A R D E I T I E R
Comparison ltem Diospyros kaki - Oriental Persimmon D. virginiana - American Persimmon
Pollination & fruitproduction
Fruit produced parthenocarpically, that is, without pollination. A single tree will have female flowers which wil I producefruit. These fruit will be unseeded unless they have been pollinated from a male flower. Male flowers are the exceptionin the oriental persimmon, not the norm. While pollination wil I change the characteristics of certain PVNA & PVApersimmons, pollination is not necessary for those or for any oriental persimmon to be produce fruit !
Fruit is borne only on a female tree. Pollinationis performed by a male tree which will bear nofruit.
Tree size Typically 1 5 to 20 feet. Size is dependant primarily on the rootstock used. Trees with either D kakl or D. iotus (Dateplum) rootstockseldomreachmuchovertwentyfeet inheightwhengrowninAmerica.Treesgrownon D.v i rg in ianarootstock can certainly exceed 30 feet, as can trees in an ideal spot that are over 50 years old. Some grafted trees inJaoan are over 600 vears old.
Typically 30 to 45 feet, even though as thereferenced persimmon article says, "...they canreach as high as 75 feet in thelr native foresthabitat. "
IMake no mistake about it folks, theseare big, hearty trees, and you have to have twoplanted (of the right sex) to get fruit I j
Major fruit types PCNA (pollination constant non-astringent): Firm{ipe, we called these apple persimmons when I was a kid, theseare mildly sweet with a smooth texture, but with enough of a crunch to resemble an apple. Examples - Jiro and Fuyu,PCA (pollination constant astringent): Your standard soft-ripe fruit, astringent/puckery until almost water-balloonsoft, then sweet like grandma's homemade apricot jam. Examples - Hachiya and 5aijo. I also lump PVA (pollinationvariation astringent) fruit into this category as well as these fruit are always astringent until soft and the only thingthat changes is the color inside if seeded (although technically, many consider it a separate category).PVNA (pollination variant non-astringent): Cinnamon persimmons. The most unusual and misunderstood variety.This fruit can be eaten firm-ripe like an apple only lf it has been sufficiently pollinated to be fully colored inslde.0therwise, it must either be eaten soft-ripe, or it must be treated to be edible. To examine fruit coloration, cut thefruit horizontally. Examine the fruit to see if it is clear orange or cinnamonJlecked throughout. Cut out the clearorange part and throw it away - it will be puckery. Eat the portion 0f the fruit that is cinnamon-flecked throughout.This wil l be uniquely flavored (some will say "spicy
rich "
or "spicy sweet") and seeded. To be commerclally viable,fruit of this class is treated with either ethyl alcohol or C0z prior to consumption to ensure non-astringency.
Soft-ripe only. Fruit of theAmerican persimmonis astringent until it is completely softened.However, I have encountered some of thesefruits that never seem to lose their astringency,no matter how soft they become.
Fruit size and shape Fruit size varies to slightly in excess of 4 inches. lt would take roughly 1 2 to 1 6 of the largest American persimmons toequal one ofthe largest D. kaki fruit.The fruit comes in many shapes from nearly round, to acorn, to round or squareand flattened.The fruit also is typically seedless unless a pollinator is planted nearby.
Fruit size varies up to 2 inches maximum. Fruilis typically flattened, so actual measurementof largest fruit is typically
'l inch vertically by 2
inches horizontally, and is fully seeded.
Commercialapplications
Fresh fruit for commercial production. Fresh fruit for U-pick marketing and for farmers markets, especially in Asianpopulation marketplaces. Homeowners consume the fruit fresh, frozen or dried; and they use sliced or pulped fruit in avarietv of dishes and in cookinq. This is a recoonized minor fruit croo.
Pulp commercially produced. Homeownersconsume fresh, and use in cooking. Used exten-sively as a forage crop for livestock and poultry.
USDA zonehardiness
The trees do fine in areas as cold as zone 7 (our zone) - not zone 'l 4 as published in the referenced persimmion
article (page I 4, July/August 2004 issue). Attempts to grow fruit in the warmer regions of zone 6 have been partlysuccessful, but are typically limited to selected astringent varieties (PCA).The oriental persimmon will grow in thewarmer one-third of North America. The American persimmon has iust over twice that ranqe.
A quote from the article being referenced: "Trees
survive as far north as USDA Zone 5, but only afew cultivars will ripen fruit in the short growingseason." TheAmerican persimmon is much morecold-hardythan is the oriental persimmon. ltsgreatly expanded range is frequently what makesitof interestto those who are unable, because oftheir location, to growthe oriental persimmon.
tor for Nishimura \(/ase so that it will have thebest chance ofsuccess.
I(now What You're Getting IntoYou, the consume! should know what you
are getting into with respect to this "Coffee-
Cake" persimmon. Realize that the Nishimura\üZase is not, nor will it ever be, an ideal com-
panion tree for the Fu1'u, the Jiro or for any
other type of apple persimmon. Be aware of
this issue and ofyour expectations when buy-ing
"new kinds" of cinnamon persimmons. If
you buy a Nishimura\7ase (Coffee-Cake) andyou do not have Chocolate as a pollinator,expect to eat your fruit soft-ripe (or expect tohave to treat it to eat it). Ifyou get a Choco-Iate as a pollinator for your Nishimura'Wase,
expect all ofyour persimmon fruit on nearby
oriental persimmon varieties to be firlly seeded
(most with six to eight seeds each).
Remember, pollination in PVNA per-simmons can be a triclly thing and can bemarkedly affected by sudden changes in tem-
perature and humidiry, which will cause theinconstant male blossoms ofvarieties such asthe Nishimura \7ase to fall offwithin hours
(turn to page 14)
%)e süir) fo afsfafes!t photo catalog - online order
Allspiee Tree, Barbados Chery (Aceroh), Bay Run Tree, Canistel,Cashew Nü, Chocolate Tree (Cacao),
'amon, Cotee, Curry Leaf, Grumichana,Guava, Jabdinba, Jackfrutt, June Plum,
Longan, Lychee, Macadamia Nut,Mango, Miracle Fruit, NoniTree,
Ranbutan, Pitaya, Pitomba, Sapodilla,Sapola, Soursop (6uanabana), Spanish Line,
Sugar Apple, Tanarind, Wax Jamboo...,,200+ varieties of axoticfruittrees and edibles!
Top Tropicals Botanical Center 3q3*.'a1.. ,t-----1{351 Orange Dr, Davie, FL 33330'" lail\)-: lJCall toll-free: 1-866-897-7957 I lroPm{üs
CALIFORNIA RARE FRUIT GROIüTERS. INC. NOVEMBER & DECEMBER TOOS f f i
F R U I T G A R D E N E R
FESTIVAL OF FRUIT (from page 13)
activities at a festival, I hope that these im-
pressions give you at least some favor of the
wonderful Festival of Fruit that was hosted
by the Northern California chapters of cntc,
and held iointlv with the Nernx annual
meeting. It w", w.ll worth the long trip.
I am already looking forward to next yeart
festival. It will be hosted by the San Luis
Obispo chapter, around the same time of the
year (early September) as this yeart festival. It
will feature The Healthful Grape, which will
be the featured fruit ofthe year. They are al-
ready planning, so get ready to be there. 0
Longtine member EmoryWalton is not only a rare fruitgrower like the rest of us; he is also the enthusiastic manager ofthe annual Fruit Shoot photo contest.
Tovotefor this article asthe bestin this issue, go to ht'tpJ/t4qlqylqy,9rfg,9yg1phpbb and select the Fruil Gardener forum. Posta message with the subject header shown as 37-6-03 or send apostcard tothe Development Fund Commiftee. ln eithet caseyourcomments are welcome.
ABOUT PERSIMMONS (from page 7)
of this change. That is why a pollinizer such
as the Chocolate persimmon, which sets an
abundance of extremely hearry male blos-
soms, is required for best results.
However, you should be aware that even
with the co-planting of a Chocolate persim-
mon tree as a pollinizer, some individuals re-
port a lack of pollination in their P\Ö{A fruit
periodicallyfrom season to season. Changes in
the natural environment such as late rains or
freezes, lack of pollinating insects (primarily
honeybees or bumblebees) or even too mild a
winter can affect the pollination of Cinnamon
persimmons for the worse. Let the buyer be-
ware! \7e can only hope that the misleading
marketing tactics of certain nursery wholesal-
ers will change voluntarily before class-action
lawsuits force them to change unwillingly.
Know Rootstock PerformanceOne additional item of note for oriental
persimmon tree buyers regards rootstock. The
rootstock typically used on oriental persim-
mons in California is either D. hahi or D.
htcr-the latter of which is qpically preferred
by nursery wholesalers because the seeds are
small, readily available, percentage of germi-
nation is high and they produce relatively uni-
form, vigorous seedlings whose root systems
have shorter taproots and more branching
laterals than an equivalent D. kabiseedling.
D. btus seedlings are also easier to transplant
from a nursery bed, i.e., when grown in the
ground, than either D. hahi or D. uirginiana.
The problem is that some nursery whole-
salers use D. brus seedlings to graft certain
PCNA (firm-ripe) persimmons onto. D. btus
has known incompatibiliry issues with variet-
ies such as Suruga, Izu, Fuyu and Matsumoto\Wase Fuyu. From time to dme I have pur-
chased oriental persimmon varieties recently
released, only to find that all of my varieties
end up dying in the first or second season. On
examination of the rootstock and in check-
ing with the nursery where I bought these, I
find that no oriental persimmon trees of that
variety survived at that nursery either-they
were grafted onto the wrong rootstock.
This initial assessment becomes absolutely
confirmed when suckers from the rootstock
come up and are identified x D. lotus. Among
nursery wholesalers this seems to happen most
often with purchases of Suruga from Orange
County Nursery. Find out what rootstockwas
used on anylzu, Suruga, Fu1.u (Fuyugaki) or
Matsumoto \7ase Fuy'u that you intend to
buy. I recommend not purchasing these vari-
eties from any nursery that has grafted them
onto an unlnown rootstock or a rootstock
other than D. haki.
Let the Buyer BewareEven if a new persimmon type comes
highly recommended in some book or mar-
keting blurb, make sure you acquire it from
a reputable source that stands behind their
product because, unfortunately in the case
of incompatible rootstocks, you may need a
guarantee. One way to prevent this is to have
the rootstock used for any oriental persim-
mon tree noted on the tree tag. If done accu-
rately and truthfirlly, this simple step would
help prevent some disappointing injustices
that you, the consumer of persimmon prod-
ucts, have to contend with from companies
that know better but do it any"way-evident-
ly just to make a buck at your expense.
Remarls on Last Year's ArticleHere are several other comments
prompted by the persimmon article that ap-peared in the July & August 2004 issue:
1. My sources in Japan tell me that TsuruNo Ko is a PCA (soft-ripe) fruit only. Itdoes not refer to the Chocolate persim-mon, whose name is incidentally anAmerican invention.
2. Ama-Hyakume, and Zenji Maru (notZengi Maru) are both excellent PVNA(cinnamon) persimmons. California
w *our*BER & DECEMBER 2oot CALIFORNIA RARE FRUIT GRO'VERS, INC
F R U I T G A R D E I U E R
tsf#f3,4?fi4fi6#r9tS$*s*&*tä*!r,i&st**ät9s!s*j*iä#ärin#ts* # stfs${&s#&s,#g*9i#s#$s$sdi}sjnir#ss6}i.i&*ss#*is#sä*f,i*gg s6 f
Maru does have possibilities, but all DaiDai Maru that I have sampled ro date(pollinated or not) have been quite bad.
3. Among the photos shown on page 14 ofthe referenced persimmon article-. Photo 1 appears not to be a Chocolatepersimmon. AJthough the angle of thefruit makes the photo hard to evaluate,the partial seeding of the fruit makesit clear that this fruit is not Chocolate.Displayed below is a correcr photo of aChocolate persimmon.
Chocolate is the most virile pollinatorI have ever seen and its fruit is alwaysfully seeded (8 seeds). I have never seen achocolate fruit that is only partly seeded.
Chocolate fruit from a marure rree canbe eaten hard-ripe or soft-ripe, but I preferto eat them when they have begun to soft-en. In this state they are rich and sweer likechocolate pudding. I dont really care for
them hard-ripe, and ifyour tree is young,they may even be astringent when hard.This was true for the first several years afterI planted my first Chocolate persimmontree. After the third year I noticed a scrubjay eatingmy Chocolate persimmons andthought, 'this
bird must be nurs, thosethings are astringent," but after trying one,I found that they were indeed edible.
Dont over-water a mature Chocolatepersimmon tree too close to harvest asthis practice will tend to make the fruitless sweet and favorful than it otherwise
would be.. Photo 3 is definitely not a Honan Red.Displayed below is a correct photo of aHonan Red. The dullness of the fruit isdue to its narural coaring or'bloom." Thefruit brightens up ro a beautiful deep redwhen this coating is cleaned offand itis ripe. However, the skin of the HonanRed is astringent, so beware. To eat a ripeHonan Red, pull the stem offand suck theinsides out, discarding the skin.. Looking at photo 5 one is unable to seethe shape of aZenji Maru. Judging by thepollination patrern I cant tell if this fiuitis aZr$i Maru. Displayed below is a cor-rect photo of rhe Trnji Maru from variousangles so readers can see the shape ofit.
. Fina-lly, on photo 4, Jiro is simplyJiro.There is noJiro Fuyu.
Recommended LiteratureFew persimmon references have been
published in English. Even fewer are worthowning. Two references I recommend forany persimmon enrhusiasr who can findthem are Persimmon Cuhure in New Zea-landby Hirotoshi Kitagawa and Paul G.Glucina, and Persimmons for EueryonebyEugene Griffith and Mary Griffith.
I hope these tips and comments will addclarity to areas of persimmon interest thatmay be misunderstood by some growers. 0
DuaneWieden is a persimmon lover who is currently writingmultiple books on the oriental persimmon; his research on thatfruit spans four years. He was among the expert presenters atthe2005 Festival of Fruit. Duane literally enjoysthefruits of his laborsfrom hts home orchard, and he sharesthem with others. Readerscan c0ntact Duane by e-mail at [email protected].
To vote lor this article as the best in this issue, go to http://r+uw.cfg.org/phpbb and select the Fr uit Gardener forum. posta nessage with the subject header shown as 37-6-02 or send apostcad to the Development Fund Committee. ln either caseyoulconments are welcome.
CALIFORNIA RARE FRUIT GRO'W'ERS, NOVEMBER 6. DECEMBER 2OOs
Top Related