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John Lennon Interview: Newsweek, 9/29/1980
In the nine years since the Beatles broke up, John Lennon, their
most brilliant and controversial member, has had a turbulent coming
of age. After a flurry of post-Beatle albums of wildly uneven
quality, a four-year fight with the Immigration Service to stay inthe United States, a fifteen-month separation from his wife Yoko
Ono, and the birth of their son Sean, Lennon disappeared from public
view in 1975. Now on the eve of his 40th birthday, he is reemerging
with the most eagerly awaited album of the year. Called 'Double
Fantasy,' it is a 'Scenes From A Marriage' in fourteen songs - seven
by Lennon, seven by Ono. Wide-ranging in style - from the rockin'
boogie of Lennon's '(Just Like) Starting Over,' to Ono's
gospel-tinged 'Hard Times Are Over,' from his starry-eyed 'Beautiful
Boy' to her acid-tongued rock-disco 'Kiss, Kiss, Kiss' - the
forthcoming album is full of unaffected gusto and is likely to
appeal to the broadest tastes.
A few years ago, the couple switched roles: Lennon became a
househusband - babysitting and baking bread, while Ono became the
family's business manager. Their real-estate holdings are extensive
- five cooperatives in Manhattan's legendary Dakota apartment house,
half a dozen residences scattered from Palm Beach, Fla., to a
mountain retreat in upstate New York, and four dairy farms.
Recently Lennon and Ono sat down with Newsweek's Barbara Graustark
for his first major interview in five years. Whippet-thin in Levisand work shirt, smoking French cigarettes and nibbling sushi, the
ex-Beatle talked expansively about himself, showing no sign of the
inner demons that once haunted his songs.
Q: "Why did you go underground in 1975? Were you tired of making
music, or of the business itself?"
JOHN: "It was a bit of both. I'd been under contract since I was 22
and I was always 'supposed to.' I was supposed to write a hundred
songs by Friday, supposed to have a single out by Saturday, supposed
to do this or that. I became an artist because I cherished freedom -I couldn't fit into a classroom or office. Freedom was the plus for
all the minuses of being an oddball! But suddenly I was obliged to
the media, obliged to the public. It wasn't free at all!
I've withdrawn many times. Part of me is a monk, and part a
performing flea! The fear in the music business is that you don't
exist if you're not at Xenon with Andy Warhol. As I found out, life
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doesn't end when you stop subscribing to Billboard."
Q: "Why five years?"
JOHN: "If you know your history, it took us a long time to have a
live baby. And I wanted to give five solid years to Sean. I hadn't
seen Julian, my first son (by ex-wife Cynthia), grow up at all. Andnow there's a 17-year-old man on the phone talkin' about motorbikes.
I'm an avid reader, mainly history, archeology and anthropology. In
other cultures, children don't leave the mother's back until 2. I
think most schools are prisons - A child's thing is wide open and to
narrow it down and make him compete in the classroom is a joke. I
sent Sean to kindergarten. When I realized I was sending him there
to get rid of him, I let him come home... If I don't give him
attention at 5, then I'm gonna have to give him double doses of it
in his teenage years. It's owed."
Q: "Paul McCartney's theory is that you became a recluse because
you'd done everything - but be yourself."
JOHN: "What the hell does that mean? Paul didn't know what I was
doing - he was as curious as everyone else. It's ten years since I
really communicated with him. I know as much about him as he does
about me, which is zilch. About two years ago, he turned up at the
door. I said, 'Look, do you mind ringin' first? I've just had a hard
day with the baby. I'm worn out and you're walkin' in with a damn
guitar!"
Q: "Give me a typical day in the life of John and Yoko."JOHN: "Yoko became the breadwinner, taking care of the bankers and
deals. And I became the housewife. It was like one of those reversal
comedies! I'd say (mincingly), 'Well, how was it at the office
today, dear? Do you want a cocktail? I didn't get your slippers and
your shirts aren't back from the laundry.' To all housewives, I say
I now understand what you're screaming about. My life was built
around Sean's meals. 'Am I limiting his diet too much?' (The Lennons
maintain a macrobiotic lifestyle, eschewing dairy products, liquor
and meat.) 'Is SHE gonna talk business when she comes home fromwork?' I'm a rich housewife - but it still involves caring."
Q: "Yoko, why did you decide to take over as business manager?"
YOKO: "There's a song by John on the album called 'Clean-up Time' -
and it really was that for us. Being connected to Apple (the
Beatles' corporation) and all the lawyers and managers who had a
piece of us, we weren't financially independent - we didn't even
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know how much money we had. We still don't! Now we are selling our
shares (25 percent) of Apple stock to free our energy for other
things. People advised us to invest in stocks and oil but we didn't
believe in it. You have to invest in things you love. Like cows,
which are sacred animals in India. Buying houses was a practicaldecision - John was starting to feel stuck in the Dakota and we get
bothered in hotels. Each house that we've bought was chosen because
it was a landmark that needed restoring."
Q: "John, how hard was it not to be doing something musical?"
JOHN: "At first, it was very hard. But musically my mind was just a
clutter. It was apparent in 'Walls And Bridges' (his 1974 solo
album), which was the work of a semi-sick craftsman. There was no
inspiration, and it gave off an aura of misery. I couldn't hear the
music for the noise in my own head. By turning away, I began to hear
it again. It's like Newton, who never would have conceived of what
the apple falling meant had he not been daydreaming under a tree.
That's what I'm living for... the joy of having the apple fall on my
head once every five years."
Q: "Did you just stop listening to music?"
JOHN: "I listened mostly to classical or Muzak. I'm not interested
in other people's work - only so much as it affects me. I have the
great honor of never having been to Studio 54 and I've never been to
any rock clubs. It's like asking Picasso, has he been to the museum
lately."Q: "Why did you decide to record again?"
JOHN: "Because this housewife would like to have a career for a bit!
On Oct. 9, I'll be 40 and Sean will be 5 and I can afford to say
'Daddy does something else as well.' He's not accustomed to it - in
five years I hardly picked up a guitar. Last Christmas our neighbors
showed him 'Yellow Submarine' and he came running in, saying,
'Daddy, you were singing... were you a Beatle?' I said, 'Well, yes.
Right.'"
Q: "Why did you collaborate with Yoko on this LP?"JOHN: "It's like a play and we're acting in it. It's John and Yoko -
you can take it or leave it. Otherwise (laughing) it's cows and
cheese, my dear! Being with Yoko makes me whole. I don't want to
sing if she's not there. We're like spiritual advisors. When I first
got out of the Beatles, I thought, 'Oh great. I don't have to listen
to Paul and Ringo and George.' But it's boring yodeling by yourself
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in a studio. I don't need all that space anymore."
Q: "You've come a long way from the man who wrote, at 23, 'Women
should be obscene rather than heard.' How did this happen?"
JOHN: "I was a working-class macho guy who was used to being served
and Yoko didn't buy that. From the day I met her, she demanded equaltime, equal space, equal rights. I said, 'Don't expect me to change
in any way. Don't impinge on my space.' She answered, 'Then I can't
be here. Because there is no space where you are. Everything
revolves around you and I can't breathe in that atmosphere.' I'm
thankful to her for the education."
Q: "People have blamed Yoko for wrenching you away from the band
and
destroying the Beatles. How did it really end?"
JOHN: "I was always waiting for a reason to get out of the Beatles
from the day I filmed 'How I Won The War' (in 1966). I just didn't
have the guts to do it. The seed was planted when the Beatles
stopped touring and I couldn't deal with not being onstage. But I
was too frightened to step out of the palace. That's what killed
(Elvis) Presley. The king is always killed by his courtiers. He is
overfed, overindulged, overdrunk to keep him tied to his throne.
Most people in the position never wake up. Yoko showed me what it
was to be Elvis Beatle, and to be surrounded by sycophant slaves
only interested in keeping the situation as it was - a kind of
death. And that's how the Beatles ended - not because she 'split'the Beatles, but because she said to me, 'You've got no clothes on.'
Q: "How do you look back on your political radicalism in the early
'70's?"
JOHN: "That radicalism was phony, really, because it was out of
guilt. I'd always felt guilty that I made money, so I had to give it
away or lose it. I don't mean I was a hypocrite. When I believe, I
believe right down to the roots. But being a chameleon, I became
whoever I was with. When you stop and think, what the hell was I
doing fighting the American Government just because Jerry Rubincouldn't get what he always wanted - a nice cushy job."
Q: "Do you ever yearn for the good old days?"
JOHN: "Nah! Whatever made the Beatles the Beatles also made the 60's
the 60's. And anybody who thinks that if John and Paul got together
with George and Ringo, the Beatles would exist, is out of their
skulls. The Beatles gave everything they had to give, and more. The
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four guys who used to be that group can never ever be that group
again even if they wanted to be. What if Paul and I got together? It
would be boring. Whether George or Ringo joined in is irrelevant
because Paul and I created the music. OK? There are many Beatle
tracks that I would redo - they were never the way I wanted them tobe. But going back to the Beatles would be like going back to
school... I was never one for reunions. It's all over."
Q: "Of all the new songs, only 'I'm Losing You' seems to harbor the
famous Lennon demons. How did you come to write it?"
JOHN: "It came out of an overwhelming feeling of loss that went
right back to the womb. One night, I couldn't get through to Yoko on
the telephone and I felt completely disconnected... I think that's
what the last five years were all about - to reestablish me for
meself. The actual moment of awareness when I remembered who I
was came in a room in Hong Kong because Yoko had sent me around the
world to be by meself. I hadn't done anything by meself since I was
20. I didn't know how to check into a hotel... if someone reads this
they'll think, 'These bloody popstars!' They don't understand the
pain of being a freak. Whenever I got nervous about it I took a
bath, and in Hong Kong I'd had about 40 baths. I was looking out
over the bay when something rang a bell. It was the recognition -
'My God! This relaxed person is me from way back. HE knew how to do
things. It doesn't rely on any adulation or hit record. Wow!' So I
called Yoko and said, 'Guess who. It's me!'I wandered around Hong Kong at dawn, alone, and it was a thrill. It
was rediscovering a feeling that I once had as a youngster walking
the mountains of Scotland with an Auntie. The heather, the mist... I
thought - aha! THIS is the feeling that makes you write or paint...
It was with me all my life! And that's why I'm free of the Beatles,
because I took time to discover that I was John Lennon before the
Beatles, and will be after the Beatles. And so be it."
(End of interview)
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