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Page 175
IN THE CHANCERY COURT OF MARION COUNTY, MS
RAVEN SKYE BOYD PETITIONER
VS, NO. 2006-0136-G
MICHAEL T. BOYD RESPONDENT
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THE FOLLOWING IS A TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS HELD ON AUGUST 16, 2011, BEFORE THE HONORABLE DEBORAH J. GAMBRELL, CHANCELLOR, STATE OF MISSISSIPPI
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REPORTED BY: Patsy Ainsworth Young, CSR
PATSY AINSWORTH, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
Direct - Wanda Phil l ips Page 244
1 year .
2 THE COURT: I have that down, wanted to
3 draw house, because cousin draws and you have the
suppl ies , bu t we ' ve got t o get to re l evance of the
5 termination. The Supreme Court has basically set
6 up the guidelines as to what it takes to terminate
7 parental rights, and that is what we need to stick
with .
9 MR. IGNATI EV: Your Honor, I am getting
10 there.
11 Q. What did Harley draw and write after she
12 received these art suppli es?
13 A. She drew pictures of what she said was
,. her dad and pictures of herself, pictures of the 15 house. She laid out the whole floor plan and she
16 had not been there in nearly three years. She was
17 able to lay the floor plan out. She drew the
,. singing deer. She sang the song that the Singing
19 deer sang, Sweet Home Alabama. She started about
20 dinner time and drew on that until a l most 10:30 at
21 night and I made her go to bed.
22 Q. Wha t else is contained in these
23 drawings?
24 A. She tal ked about having sex with her
25 daddy.
26 MS. BALDWI N: Object i on, Your Honor , and
27 move to strike unless that is produced or 2. something. There is no foundation.
29 THE COURT: That is drawn on a piece of
PATSY AINSWORTH, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
Direct - Wanda Phillips Page 245
1 paper?
2 THE WITNESS: I do have that here.
3 MS. BALDWIN: That has not been produced
4 to counsel.
5 THE COURT: Has that been produced?
6 MR. IGNATIEV: Your Honor, an electronic
7 copy was provided to the GAL. I was not able to
get that printed out.
THE COURT: What are we talking about?
10 THE WITNESS: I took a copy of it to the
11 district attorney, and the district attorney said
12 take it to counsel, and I took it to the GAL's
13 THE COURT: Is that what you took to the
14 district attorney down in Louisiana?
15 A. I have not taken nothing to anybody in
16 Louisiana.
17 THE COURT: When was that?
,. THE WITNESS: To Hal Kittrell. ,. THE COURT: When was that, ma'am? 20 THE WITNESS: The middle of July. I
21 took it to the GAL; I don't know if that's the GAL
22 or not.
23 MR. JOHNSON: Mrs. Phillips came to my
24 office one day when I was not present, with one of
25 the children, according to my staff, and had two
26 books that she wanted to go over with my
27 secretary.
2. THE COURT: Where are the children that
2. are in the middle of this?
PATSY AINSWORTH, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
Direct - Wanda Phillips Page 246
1 MR. IGNATIEV: They are in school, Your
2 Honor.
3 THE COURT: They need to be here,
4 because obviously I have heard -- I have been
5 sitting here half the day and I have heard so many
6 different things that I could probably -- why
7 weren't the children brought here?
8 MR. IGNATIEV: Your Honor, they are both
9 under the age of ten, and the GAL said that he did
10 not feel it was appropriate to interview them due
11 to their suggestibility.
12 THE COURT: Based on what we are having
13 here, what you are putting before me, if everybody
14 else is interviewing them and making decisions,
15 and the person that has got to make the final
16 decision that he will get to see the children
17 MR . JOHNSON: I have not seen the books
18 that she is referencing.
19 . THE COURT: Whatever it is that you are
20 all trying to testify from needs to be marked for
21 identification purposes and then we don't have the
22 author of the documents and Mr. Kittrell's office
23 -- let's go on. What was the objection? Do we
24 have the drawings?
25 MR. IGNATIEV: We do have a copy of
26 them, Your Honor, I believe.
27 THE COURT: You need to try to -- do you
28 have them, Mr. Johnson?
'9 MR . JOHNSON : No, ma' am.
PATSY AINSWORTH, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
Direct - Wanda Phillips Page 247
1 MS. BALDWIN: Neither have I , Your
2 Honor.
3
4
THE COURT: Wel l , why are we trying a
case when everything that is offered has not been
5 exchanged between the parties? You know that is
6 what the rules say.
7 MR. I GNATIEV: Your Honor, my
understanding was this was provided to the GAL and
at that point - - I apologize .
10 MS. BALDWIN: Your Honor, my
11 understanding is --
12 THE WITNESS : I took the granddaughter
13 and the book over to the GAL's office, and I took ,. a thumb drive and put i t in his computer and it is 15 on the desktop of the secretary's computer.
16 THE COURT: That may be fine, but based
17 on the rul es of law that we have to go by between
,. attorneys and judges and all of these people
,. sitting out there - - where is my rule book? There
20 is a book that tells lawyers that when you plan to
21 offer something, you have to give it to the other 22 side prior to.
23 The GAL is an investigatory arm of the
2. Cour t that has been appointed pursuant to this
25 law; this case that has been attached to this 26 Louisiana petition. Do you follow me? 27 THE WITNESS: Yes, ma'am . I agree. 2. THE COURT: He is not involved in this.
2. There are rules that say if Ms . Baldwin plans to
PATSY AINSWORTH, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
Direct - Wanda Phillips Page 248
1 offer something to help her client or to hurt
2 Mr. Ignatiev's client, it has to be given. Do you
3 follow me?
4 THE WITNESS: I do follow you. I have
S been researching the law; I know that is supposed
6 to happen.
7 THE COURT: Well, it didn't and it has
not. So the Court now has to decide what to do
9 with this evidence.
10 MR. IGNATIEV: I apologize, Your Honor,
11 the procedural posture of this case has been all
12 screwed up and I have not been on the ball .
13 THE COURT: I agree, but can you give it
14 to her now, and we can go on and keep testifying
lS and come back to it later.
16 MS. BALDWIN: Your Honor, I would make
17 an offer of proof on that document, pictures.
,. Certainly an objection . But I would like to make
19 an offer of proof, that Wanda Phillips took that
20 to Hal Kittrell and discussed the matter with Hal
21 Kittrell, and there was no proceeding. Also Jim
22 Johnson -- everyone was somewhat aware of these
23 pictures . As you say, where they came from, the
24 author is not here, the validity, the undue
2S
26
influence it may have caused them, my
understanding is that Mrs. Wanda Phillips
27 this is of course my offer of proof -- Ms.
and
2. Phillips actually had Harley do a good daddy book
29 and a bad daddy book while --
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Direct - Wanda Phillips
THE COURT: Where are the good daddy
books and bad daddy books?
Page 249
MS. BALDWIN: She has got them; I have
heard about them; I have not seen them.
THE COURT: Can I have the good daddy
books and the bad daddy books?
books?
daughter.
THE WITNESS: I don't have them.
THE COURT: Who has the good daddy
THE WITNESS: I gave them to my
THE COURT: Where are they?
RAVEN MAURER: I did n o t bring the
originals with me because it seems l ike the
originals--
THE WITNESS: We have had evidence
disappear.
THE COURT: Did you give that to
Mr. Kittrell?
MS. BALDWIN: I don't know, Your Honor;
. I have just heard about all of this stuff.
THE COURT: Did you give the good daddy
books / bad daddy books to Mr. Kittrell?
THE WITNESS: On the thumb drive,
electronic into the computer.
MS. BALDWIN: They will proceed in that
action --
THE COURT: They are not going to if
they don't have an original document . That means
PATSY AINSWORTH, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
Direct - Wanda Phillips Page 250
1 we don't have these things so we are not going to
2 listen to testimony if I don't have them.
3 MS. BALDWIN: That is what I would ask,
4 Your Honor.
5 THE COURT: I can't. The rules of
evidence say that I can't.
7 MR. IGNATIEV: We do have a copy here,
8 it's my understanding. THE COURT: That is what I asked ten
10 minutes ago. If you have got it, give each party
11 a copy and let me review it before I let anybody
12 testify.
13 MR. IGNATIEV: Excuse my client to go
14 and get it; she has got them.
15 THE COURT: Let me explain. A Court
,. needs all of the evidence before it to make
17 decisions; that is what all of you are so
18 eloquently telling me. But I don't have it, and
,. that is what I am here for today. Everything that
20 is planned to be offered should be here in this
21 courtroom. If you have gone to see the DA, I have
22 known Mr. Kittrell for years. And he is
23 fastidious with preparing cases for minor children
2. that have been abused, and he will go beyond the
25 call of duty to get everything. It should be
2. here; the authors of all the documents need to be
27 here, but they are not. So tell me what it is you
28 got before I release Mrs. Maurer to get them?
2' What else do you plan to offer that
PATSY AINSWORTH, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
Direct - Wanda Phillips Page 251
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MR. IGNATIEV: Your Honor, that is the
only thing.
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THE COURT:
break and go forward.
try this .
We will take a two-minute
Y'all were not pr epared to
6 MS. BALDWIN: No, we were prepared; we
7 are prepared to go forward on this. We were not
provided all of the documents, and that is why I
9 keep objecting. 10 THE COURT: I understand. The laws of
11 this land do not allow you to do trial by ambush.
12 THE WITNESS: When she wanted to draw
13 the books 14 THE COURT: I can't take testimony. I
15 am in recess. And that would be testimony.
16 (Pause)
17 THE COURT: Mrs. Phillips may take the
,. stand again and y'all keep moving along.
19 MR . IGNATIEV: I believe Ms. Baldwin's
20 obj ection was
21 MS. BALDWIN: Yes, I have reviewed the
22 documents, and it appears to me without any
23 further consideration, that some of the documents
24 are art work, and there seems it was done by more
25 than one person. Those documents, they are
26 hearsay, Your Honor; they lack trustworthiness;
27 they are not relevant to this issue. I don't know
2. what any of that has to do with the issue before
29 the Court, which is termination of parental
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Direct - Wanda Phillips Page 252
rights.
I woul d ask that t hey not be allowed.
Your Honor, for the record, they are dated on the
front, July 20, 2011 ; that just happens to be the
date of the last order in this case and that has
been a course of conduct with Ms. Raven and
Ms. Wanda in this case all along; they enter into
an agreed order; they agree to something ; t hey go
to Louisiana and file something to stop it; they
create or influence documents right before
visitation is to take place , and that has been the
case consistently. That is why we object to these
documents ; they were prepared on the very day the
temporary order was entered.
MR. IGNATIEV: Your Honor, my response
to that is, I know Ms. Baldwin has been arguing
that those things have all been agreed to. The
fact of the matter is except for one occasion, the
orders that have come, particul arly since t he
Court has been involved, have been agreed as to
form only.
After conference with the Court and
object ion raised by me on my client ' s behalf, as
far as this document goes, the fact of the matter
is that for purposes of authentication under the
rules of evidence, I don't believe a nine-year-old
can authenticate anything anyway .
THE COURT: For the purposes of the rules of evidence then, what would be your
PATSY AINSWORTH, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
Direct - Wanda Phillips Page 253
1 position as to what the law says about the court
2 accepting into evidence drawings that are offered
3 by a third person, and the artist is not here. I
4 want to honestly hear what your understanding of
5 the rules is.
6 MR. IGNATIEV: Your Honor, I am bringing
7 this forward to show the state of mind and her
8 mother who are concerned only for the welfare of
9 Harley and Zoey, and this is what is being given
10 to them as information. This is what they have to
11 work with. I am showing that my client is not
12 acting out of some sort of irrational hatred of
13 her ex-husband.
14 THE COURT: The Court can, only because
15 of what the rules of evidence say about how those
16 documents should be verified, you can offer them
17 for identification purposes only, and let's just
18 move right along. I read Judge Thomas' order and
19 from looking at Judge Thomas' order, if the
20 children required continuing counseling, that was
21 supposed to take place. There is a GAL in place
22 that all items regarding anything that relates to
23 abuse, et cetera, should go through the GAL; and I
24 am concerned about that the parties may not
25 understand the GAL's purpose, and I thought that I
26 explained it . But you all understand that the
27 guardian ad litem is the investigatory arm of the
28 Court and takes no side as it relates to either 29 one of you all. Were you all aware of that? I am
PATSY AINSWORTH, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
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Direct - Wanda Phillips
THE COURT: You have not?
MR. JOHNSON: No, ma'am.
Page 256
THE COURT: They will be offered just
4 for identification only because nobody has been
5 privy to them before t oday. Let's move on. Mark
6 them for ID.
7 MS. BALDWIN: For the record, I object
8 on that.
9 THE COURT: Overruled. As it stands,
10 the Court has allowed several drawings that the
11 Court has not reviewed to be offered for
12 identification purposes only, even though no
13 predicate has been laid as to whose photographs
14 they are, when they were done, except they were
15 done July 20th. The Clerk is asking me, so she
16 can describe these documents . Are these drawings .
17 by one child or two, Mr. Ignatiev?
18 MR. IGNATIEV: Your Honor, that is what
19 I was going to get to and ask Mrs. Phillips.
20 THE COURT: Ask, please.
21 MR. IGNATIEV: (Continuing)
22 Q. Mrs. Phillips, were you present when
23 this was being done, the entire time when these
24 drawings were being made?
25 A. Sometimes I was in the washroom, and 26 sometimes I was in there making the bed, and
27 sometimes I was cooking. The house was locked.
28 No one was in the house but Harley and myself.
29 But I was not standing over her the entire time,
PATSY AINSWORTH, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
Direct - Wanda Phillips Page 261
1 before the evidence was ever brought forward.
2 THE COURT: You are aware you cannot
3 have contact with judges or their staff regarding
4 contested litigation?
5 THE WITNESS: No, ma'am.
THE COURT: You can't. Like the judge 7 in Louisiana, those officers cannot get involved
with this. When you start making these calls and
have people send e-mails, all it does is protract
lO and bog down the court system because now that you
II all are raising the fact that you think there is a
l2 continuance, I am going to have to make this a
l3 part of the record, which means the Supreme Court
l4 and anybody else that looks at this now will see
l5 these notes and e-mailsthathavebeensent.It
,. really does make sense when all we have to do is
l7 do the case and deal with the law.
,. I have allowed those drawings to be
,. admitted even though the Mississippi Rules of
20 Evidence will say they are not documents that can
2l be offered into evidence, but they are there for
22 identification, and let's move on.
23 The question was, we don't have the good
2. book even though you knew as of 9:30 yesterday
25 there was a trial today?
26 THE WITNESS: It has got pictures or 27 brownies and cakes in it.
2. THE COURT: But you knew there was a
2. trial, and you didn't bring the good book.
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Direct - Wanda Phi ll i ps Page 262
THE WI TNESS : I didn't fee l like it was
relevant , and I didn ' t have the good book .
THE COURT: That t el l s me then, if t he
good book is not r elevant , the bad one is not.
Your witness ha s indica ted that it ' s not relevant
so neither will go i nto evidence . Let ' s move on .
Take that document back . I t ' s not g i v i ng the
court a good i dea of wha t is going on.
THE WITNESS: I misspoke. I do f eel
t ha t bo t h i s r e l evant. I do feel t hat both is
relevant, but I don ' t have the books. I didn ' t
fee l t hat i t appl ied t o the case because a l l it
had was pictures of cakes and brownies in it.
THE COURT : Let ' s move on .
MR. IGNATIEV: (Cont i nuing )
Q. What i ndicat ions do you have t hat
Michael has mistrea ted the gi rls since the trial
of September 2008?
A. What was t he trial i n September of 2008?
MR . IGNATIEV: Permission to treat as
hosti l e .
THE COURT: Go ahead.
Q. Wanda, what evi dence do you have that
Michael has mi streat ed your granddaughters since
september of 2008, f r om that time, back when Raven got custody back?
A. Nothing . I am sorry . I am so distracted. He has drank and drove with the girl s on numerous occasions.
PATSY AINSWORTH, OFFICI AL COURT REPORTER
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