EPICS-2010 Summary Europe‘03
EPICS-2010?
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EPICS-2010 Summary Europe‘03
EPICS-2010
What will control systems
Look like in 2010?
EPICS-2010 Summary Europe‘03
Why should somebody want to know this?
Another crazy idea from Matthias?
He‘s not allone ...
... even worse!?
EPICS-2010 Summary Europe‘03
Why I think that it‘s important to think about EPICS 2010
• Two little stories– Once upon a time ...
– Once upon another time ...
EPICS-2010 Summary Europe‘03
The Synchronous-Put Proposal(How to get and set flavored CA data) ((Eric))
1st Step
Reactions:
1. Do you really need this?
2. This is easy – just take a set of records ...
3. We have solved this already. Our timing system ...
4. I would write a sequencer ...
EPICS-2010 Summary Europe‘03
The Synchronous-Put Proposal2nd Step
It seems that we really do not have a solution for this problem.
But
I need new functionality in IOC-core!
->This might break existing applications<---- yes you are right ---
I need add ons in channel access to solve the problem!
-> There‘s no funding for this <--- true --
EPICS-2010 Summary Europe‘03
The Synchronous-Put Proposal3rd Step
Is it not possible to get what has been implemented decades ago at LANCE, or SLAC, or Fermilab?
Currently not!
We have two problems:
1. Technical: There‘s currently no solution
2. We have no mechanism to handle such a problemand to find even a long term solution.
EPICS-2010 Summary Europe‘03
EPICS 2010
• We are currently strong to make incremental steps– EPICS has reached a mature state (this way)– Nobody wants to change this!
But• Let‘s start to think about the long term future of
EPICS• Not: What is currently necessary?• But:
– What is necessary on the long run?– How can we get prepared for future technical trends?
EPICS-2010 Summary Europe‘03
How?
• A meeting– Such a group must be small
– As many labs as possible should contribute
– Get external expertise
• Three meetings (2 days each)1. June 2003 (Europe)
2. October 2003(Asia) (Thursday/Friday before ICALEPCS)
3. Spring 2004 (USA)
EPICS-2010 Summary Europe‘03
Participants EPICS-2010 in Europe
EPICS-2010 Europe 16. / 17. June 2003 confirmed
CoreGroup
Bob Dalesio LANL Bob Dalesio <[email protected]> yesMarty Kraimer ANL Marty Kraimer <[email protected]> yesMatthias Clausen DESY Matthias Clausen <[email protected]> yesNoboru Yamamoto KEK Noboru Yamamoto <[email protected]> yesHamid Shoaee LANL Hamid Shoaee <[email protected]> yes
Consultants
Daniele Bulfone ELETTRA Daniele Bulfone <[email protected]> yesWayne Salter CERN 'Wayne Salter' <[email protected]> noMark Plesko COSYLAB Mark PLESKO <[email protected]> yesPhil Duval DESY Philip Duval <[email protected]> yesWilliam Lupton CANTAB William Lupton <[email protected]> yesAndy Goetz ESRF Andy Goetz <[email protected]> yesGregor Neu IPP/MPG Gregor Neu <[email protected]> yesHolger Brand GSI [email protected] nearly
EPICS Users
Steve Hunt PSI/ SLS Steve Hunt <[email protected]> yesMark Heron Diamond Mark Heron <"m.t.heron"@dl.ac.uk > yesDietmar Herrendörfer BESSY Dietmar Herrendörfer <[email protected]> yesNick Rees Joint Astronomy Centre Nick Rees <[email protected]> yesKaren White TJNAF Karen White <[email protected]> yesSteve Singleton Diamond support team
EPICS-2010 Summary Europe‘03
June 2003 (Europe)Agenda
Monday 16th
8:30 - 12:00 with half an hour break
12:00 - 13:30 lunch
13:30 - 17:00 with half an hour break
17:00 - 18:00 wrap up of the first day
Tuesday 17th
8:30 - 12:00 with half an hour break
12:00 - 13:30 lunch
13:30 - 16:00 with half an hour break
16:00 - 18:00 wrap up of the two days (with half an hour break)
EPICS-2010 Summary Europe‘03
Agenda
Monday 16th;
8:30 - 12:00 1.2 Networks and Protocols; OO
12:00 - 13:30 lunch
13:30 - 14:00 7.0 lessons learned
14:00 – 15:00 1.3 IOC-Core
15:30 – 17:00 1.5 EPICS Database-Engines/ Device-Implementations
17:00 - 18:00 wrap up of the first day
EPICS-2010 Summary Europe‘03
Agenda
Tuesday 17th
8:30 – 10:00 Web Services; Redundancy; EPICS-Industrial
10:30 - 12:00 Plug and Play support for I/O;
12:00 - 13:30 lunch
13:30 - 16:00 Applications; Other Fields; Organization/Communication (GAN?)
16:30 - 17:30 wrap up of the two days
EPICS-2010 Summary Europe‘03
Charge of the group:
Form a visionary look of future control systems.
Specifically: What will EPICS 2010 look like?
EPICS-2010 Summary Europe‘03
How we are going to work?
• Any idea is a good idea
• No idea is questioned
• Questions are allowed to clarify the main aspects if a new idea
• Additional ideas to a given topic are welcome
• Short presentations 'one slide shows' are welcome
• Write down your ideas and throw them in at appropriate times
EPICS-2010 Summary Europe‘03
How did we work?
EPICS-2010 Summary Europe‘03
EPICS-2010 Summary Europe‘03
EPICS-2010 Summary Europe‘03
Preparing Presentations over lunch...
EPICS-2010 Summary Europe‘03
Examples of presentations andpoints which have been discussed
Phil Duval (DESY):
TINE: What’s Different …
Large data transfer: "they want it so give it to them"
- limited data size in transfer due only to available local memory
- beat this:
~4.5 MBytes/second to as many clients as you want!
~.5 Mbyte frames @ 10 Hz as TINE multicast
Data types:
- ~40 system data types (base types + names, doublets, triplets, quads, etc.)
- user-defined structures
- property overloading
e.g. can ask for "ORBIT" as float, FLTINT, FLTINTINT, etc.
can ask for piece of "ORBIT" or entire "ORBIT"
can specify starting BPM, etc.
EPICS-2010 Summary Europe‘03
Components(Andy Goetz)
Distributed Components
Object technology has proven its worth enough to stay (“everything will be an object in the future”)
Being an object is not enough, ever increasing network bandwidth encourages distributing objects
Distributed objects however are not enough for developing and managing complex distributed systems – a component model is needed to manage lifecycle, interfaces, framework, terminology etc. (“the best solution for the future is a component model which is vendor independent”)
Is CORBA a candidate ?
CORBA is a vendor, language and operating system independent definition for distributed objects, services, facilities and architecture
Wide(st) vendor base with input from academiaProposes OS-type services over the network e.g. realtime,
parallelism, fault toleranceCompeting technologies are EJB (+jini?) and .NETCORBA has been slow in coming but has deliveredToday CORBA is the best thought-out and most complete
proposal for a distributed component model (but this is no guarantee that it wins)
My wish for the future is CORBA or something like CORBA gets universally adopted (a la Posix) and we concentrate one implementing the content instead of the container !
EPICS-2010 Summary Europe‘03
Objects
EPICS-2010 Summary Europe‘03
Applications in Astronomy(Nick Rees)
Observation Queue
Telescope Control System
Instrument Control System
Data Handling
Observation Preparation
Observation Selection
Observation DatabaseMinimumSchedulable
Blocks (MSBs)
Observation Translation
System Configurations
Data Reduction
Observation Feedback
Time Allocation Committee
ScienceProgrammes
Observation Sequencer
Science Data Product
Astronomer
EPICS 2010 17 June 2003 7
Observation Selection
EPICS-2010 Summary Europe‘03
Lessons learned(Nick Rees)
EPICS 2010 16 June 2003 5
Why was EPICS successful?
Requirements were well understood Initial implementers had done similar systems before
Modular design Individual components could be upgraded incrementally
Individuals didn’t need to know all about everything
Limited scope Did not try and solve everything in one go.
Discovered there were other similar applications Astronomy was probably not on the agenda initially
People and the collaboration The social factors worked (and we need Bob’s bad jokes!)
EPICS 2010 16 June 2003 12
Beware
Solving problems we don’t understand well If we are going to solve the high level problems in a similar
way, the skill-set of the people participating must change.
We won’t solve them in a generic way the first time around.
Don’t confuse nice-to-haves with must-haves Confusing our desires as programmers with our scientific
requirements
It’s the design, stupid!!! Not the tools EPICS is technically successful because of a few key
features and its modularity, not because of VxWorks and C.
EPICS-2010 Summary Europe‘03
Lessons learned(Karen White)
Karen White June 16, 2003 Jefferson Lab
EPICS – 2010
• What do we spend a lot of time doing?• Think about how to collectively improve
efficiency• Things that are easy to develop initially can
take significant effort to maintain• We often duplicate effort at multiple sites –
Why? How can we minimize this in the future.
EPICS-2010 Summary Europe‘03
Automatic Code Generation(Phil Duval)
TINE Server WizardTINE Server Wizard TINE Server WizardTINE Server Wizard
EPICS-2010 Summary Europe‘03
EPICS Industrial(Matthias Clausen)
Redundancy
• Hot-Standby vs. Hot Swap
• Cryogenic 24/7 operations can survive with hot standby
• Redundant Networks??
Do we need it to the IOC?
• Redundant IOC problems:– Send ca-puts to both IOC‘s
– Keep databases in synch
– Keep sequence programs in synch
– Two IOC‘s Talking to one I/O
– ->Local Synch-Link
EPICS-Industrial
• Most SCADA functionality available• Database creation tool
– For databases– Configure alarms– Configure archiver
• Sequencer (S88 and IEC 61131-3)– Creation tool – Debugger– Single step/ step over ...
• Fieldbus Support
EPICS-2010 Summary Europe‘03
Intelligent I/O (FDT)(Matthias Clausen)
EPICS-2010 Summary Europe‘03
Application Framework(Mark Plesko)
EPICS Collaboration Meeting – Abingdon, UK. June 17, 2003
Application frameworks
• Common look&feel• Predictable behavior• Standard environment
– Text, log and error messages– Print, save, config,..
• J ava is powerful– XAL (SNS) – machine physics– Tom Pelaia (SNS) – menus, window
size/position, standard output, etc.– CosyFramework – application services
EP IC S Co llaboration M eeting – Abingdon, UK. June 17, 2003
W hy XML Database: Build Control SystemProgram Generators
M odel of the Control System (XM L)
CO RBA Server C++Templa te (XPG L)
G UI Plug Java Templa te(XPG L)
Configura tion DatabaseXSD Schema Templa te
(XSL)
P rogram G enerator (X P GL P rogGen, X S L/T T ransformer)
Configura tion DatabaseSchema (XSD)
CO RBA Server (C++)G UI Plug (Java)
EPICS-2010 Summary Europe‘03
Results:Interest groups
• (1) Application Services– Name-Service– Logging-Service– Archiving-Service– Alarm-Service– .....– Application Framework
EPICS-2010 Summary Europe‘03
Results:Interest groups
• (2) EPICS-OO and Networking– How much OO does EPICS need?– Do we need a second network protocol?
• CORBA?
• DDS?
– If only one – which one?
EPICS-2010 Summary Europe‘03
Results:Interest groups
• (3) Managing and Creation of Databases• (4) EQS (EPICS Quick Startup)• (5) News on the use of Ethernet and intelligent I/O
(collection wiki only)
Interest groups run dedicated wiki‘s(Public Web pages)
Most Interest Groups have members outside the EPICS collaboration.
EPICS-2010 Summary Europe‘03
Contacts
On the Web:
EPICS-2010.desy.de
Mailing List:
Wiki‘S:
TBA
EPICS-2010 Summary Europe‘03
Next Steps
• Interest Groups will collect information which can be presented during the next meeting.
• Results of the first two meetings will be presented during ICALEPCS
• All EPICS collaborating labs are encouraged to check the possible manpower/ financial support for EPICS-2010 developments.
EPICS-2010 Summary Europe‘03
Back to the Roots:EPICS 2003
Next meeting:
12th October 2003
In Korea(Sunday before ICALEPCS)
EPICS-2010 Summary Europe‘03
Finally
Thanks to:
Hamid for the nice speech yesterday
Bob for the background organization
Mark and his team for being an excellent host of this meeting!
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