z , 2011 weli zgamodis oTxSabaTobiT z ivaniSvili: `ar...
Transcript of z , 2011 weli zgamodis oTxSabaTobiT z ivaniSvili: `ar...
C M Y K
#44 (173) 9-115.XI, 2011 weli gamodis oTxSabaTobiT www.saertogazeti.net; e-mail: [email protected] fasi 1 lari
es interviu biZina ivaniSvilis oponentebs erTxel da samudamod daukargavs usafuZvlo
braldebebis da samarcxvino Woraobis xasiaTs
`ar megona, rom miliarderi gavxdebodi~
biZina ivaniSvili:
`bednieri var, rom sufTa warsuli maqvs da garwmunebT, xelisuflebis ideologebs TavianTi mcdelobani
sikeTes ver moutans. mudmivad iseT gvarebs atrialeben, romelic cnobili araa saqarTvelos mosaxleobisT-
vis. mudmivad cdiloben, xalxs eWvi gauCinon Cemze.
erTaderT interviuSi, romelic gazeT `vedomosts~ miveci, yvela es gvaria dasaxelebuli da pasuxic iqvea ga-
cemuli. es ambavi karga xania warsuls Cahbarda. Jurnalistebma maSin verc erTi Savi xazi ver mipoves. erTi Tve ar
beWdavdnen Cems intervius. ver warmoedginaT, rom ruseTSi SeiZleboda aseTi kaci yofiliyo, Tanac qarTuli gva-
riT. rogorc aq ar vCndebodi, ufro metad ar vCandi ruseTSi. didxans elodnen Cem gamoCenas, amis Semdgom yvela
sainformacio saSualebam gaaSuqa es interviu, grami eWvic ki aravis Seutania Cems naTqvamSi, radgan interviuSi
imdenad gulwrfelad maqvs pasuxebi gacemuli, eWvis natamalic ki ar rCeboda.~
biZina ivaniSvilis pirveli interviu,
romelic 2005 wels
gazeT `vedomostSi~ daibeWda.
intervius sruli teqsti
qarTul enaze qveyndeba pirvelad.
saerTo gazeTi #44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.2
gazeTi xelmZRvanelobs Tavisufali presis principiT.SesaZloa, avtoris pozicia ar eTanxmebodes redaqciis azrs.informaciis sizusteze pasuxismgebelia avtori. gasaCivrebaSesaZlebelia masalis gamoqveynebidan erTi kviris vadaSi.
Semosuli masalebi avtorebs ar ubrundeba.aamm nniiSSnniiTT aaRRnniiSSnnuulliiaa ssaarreekkllaammoo mmaassaalleebbii..
`saerTo gazeTi~mmTTaavvaarrii rreeddaaqqttoorrii:: vvaaxxttaanngg xxaarrCCiillaavvaa
gamomcemeli: Sps sagamomcemlo centri `saerTo sityva~
mmiiss:: TTbbiilliissii,, aaRRmmaaSSeenneebblliiss 116644;;
tteell..:: 22 1144 4400 1199;; 22 3344 2288 9977
rreeggiissttrraacciiiiss ##220022337755334499
redaqtoris sveti
or kviraSi
axali samoqa-
laqo moZrao-
ba dafuZndeba,
Tumca es moZ-
raoba faqtob-
rivad ukve da-
f u Z n e b u l i a
da, Tamamad Se-
iZleba iTqvas,
misi damfuZne-
beli, pirvel
yovlisa, qarT-
veli xalxia.
bevri saxalxo moZraoba gvi-
naxavs, Tumca saxelis miuxeda-
vad, am moZraobebs moZraoba
uWirdaT da saxeli saxalxoc
ise markis asawevad hqondaT
miwebebuli, Torem iq xalxi
aravis unaxavs.
samoqalaqo moZraoba `qar-
Tuli ocneba~ albaT is erTa-
derTi bednieri gamonaklisi
iqneba qarTul sinamdvileSi,
romelic uamrav adamians gaa-
erTianebs erTi droSis qveS da
safuZvels daudebs samoqala-
qo sazogadoebis Camoyalibe-
bas saqarTveloSi.
`zogi Wiri margebeliao~,
naTqvamia.
`Wiri~, romlis gamoc biZina
ivaniSvils saqarTvelos moqa-
laqeoba Seuwyvites, gaxda imis
winapiroba, rom ver Seiqmna ki-
dev erTi axali politikuri
organizacia, samagierod da-
fuZnda samoqalaqo moZraoba,
rac mocemul situaciaSi gaci-
lebiT efeqturi da masStabu-
ri SeiZleba aRmoCndes, vidre
politikuri partia.
darwmunebuli var, `qarTu-
li ocneba~ gaxdeba yvelaze
mravalricxovani, yvelaze mo-
biluri da organizebuli Za-
la, romelic arsebul realo-
bas ukeTesobisken Secvlis da
sxvadasxva wvril-wvril par-
tiul Tu arasamTavrobo orga-
nizaciebSi daqsaqsul da da-
fantul qarTvel xalxs erT
monoliTur sxeulad Sekravs.
maS ase, asparezze gamodis
misi udidebulesoba qarTveli
xalxi, rac imas niSnavs, rom
droa viRac-viRaceebma Cemod-
nebis Calageba daiwyon...
vaxtang xarCilava
stummrrebi - zaza firaliSvili (fi-
losofosi); lela iakobaSvili (kul-
turologi)
wammyvani - nino ffirrcxalava
ukanasknel pperriodSi sazogadoeba, mmiuxe-
davad immisa, rromm dayoffilia gansxvavebuli
mmosazrrebebis da orrientaciebis jguffebad, rra-
Rac errTi mmTlianis garrSemmo gaerrTianebis
surrvils gammoTqqvamms...
rrammdenad da rrogorr mmoaxerrxa qqarrTulmma
sazogadoebamm sammoqqalaqqo sazogadoebad Ca-
mmoylibebis fforrmmirreba mmas Semmdeg, rrac
mmtkivneulad ganicada yvela is rrefforrmma ,
rrommelic gammowveulia saorrientacio veqqto-
rrebis cvlilebiT; Cveni qqveynisTvis Crrdi-
loeTidan dasavleTisaken Sebrruneba sak-
mmaod mmtkivneuli aRmmoCnda.
wamyvani:- qarTuli sazogadoeba 20
welia yalibdeba, garkveuli etapebi gaiara,
Tumca saboloo formirebisaTvis, rasac sa-
moqalaqo sazogadoeba hqvia, albaT Zalian
bevria gasavleli... batono zaza, rogor gai-
go Cveulebrivma rigiTma qarTvelma demokra-
tia?
zaza firaliSvili - rom giTxraT,
rom Cven gvesmis, Tu ra aris demokratia,
Sors viqnebi simarTlisagan! es iseTi Tvise-
baa, romelsac mopoveba sWirdeba da romelic
erTxel mopovebis Semdeg samudamod geqneba!
amitom saubari, rom Cven raRac momentidan
demokratiulebi varT an viqnebiT, ar SeiZ-
leba! misi mopoveba sakmarisad rTuli gax-
lavT; is seroizul istoriul praqtikas
moiTxovs; moiTxovs Tanaarsebobisa da Tanam-
Sromlobis kulturis SemuSavebas sazoga-
doebaSi, rac Cven gvaklia!
lela iakobiSvili - TavisTavad, sa-
dac demokratia daibada saberZneTSi, iq po-
lisebis kultura ukve arsebobda! es Tavis-
Tavad, qalaquri cxovrebis kulturaa... misi
meore versia ukve evropaSi ganxorcielda,
sadac qalaqebi Sedga, rogorc industriul-
kulturuli centrebi! da adamianebi Tavisi
interaqciebiT qalaquri komunikaciebis sqe-
maSi iyo CarTuli! qalaqs hqonda erTiani in-
formaciuli veli, romelic struqturirde-
boda Tavisi samarTliT, urTierTobebis
formatebiT, arqiteqturiT, socialuri fe-
nebiT da a. S.
ai, es epoqa qarTvelebs ar gagvivlia! ase
vTqvaT, Cven qalaqSi Camogvasaxles, indust-
rias gvaziares... qalaqi Tavisi topologiu-
ri sivrciT, Sinagani dinamizmiT, struqtu-
riT, kulturis garsiT, es evropisTvisac
gviani Sua saukuneebis Semdeg daiwyo, bur-
Juaziis dabadebis Semdeg! burJuazia CvenTan
dRes ibadeba. amitom, sworad gamigeT, saidan,
rogor SemiZlia samoqalaqo interaqciebSi
CaverTo, rodesac me rom moqalaqe gavmxda-
riyavi, amis moZalade bolSevizmi iyo! ami-
tom gardatexis asaki am mimarTulebiT Cven
ar gagvivlia! dResac postindustriul xana-
Si procesebi Zaladobrivi mgonia...
dasavleTSi SeimCneva deurbanizaciis
swrafi tempi, xolo saqarTvelos centra-
lur qalaqebSi urbanizaciis stiqiuri pro-
cesia! anu is socialuri sivrceebi, romle-
bic Tavis droze vaWrobas mohyva evropaSi,
Cvens Tvalwin daiwyo saqarTveloSi. aq jer-
jerobiT eliavasa da lilos bazroba aris
e.w. burJuaziuli interaqcia!
- klasikuri gagebiT, samoqalaqo sazoga-
doeba Tavis TavSi moiazrebs politikur
partiebs, arasamTavrobo seqtors da medias!
b-nno zaza, ramdenad erTnairad viTardeba es
sami sfero bolo 20 wlis ganmavlobaSi da
ramdenad SeaqvT sakuTari wvlili demokra-
tiuli procesis ganviTarebaSi?
zaza firaliSvili _ samwuxaroa,
magram arasamTavrobo seqtori garkveulwi-
lad iqca biznesad. unda airCion is lingvis-
tika, romliTac unda isaubron saerTaSori-
so donorebTan da Semdeg rom moaxdinon
Targmani rigiTi moqalaqis enaze, es ar
aRelvebT da arc ainteresebT! saerTaSoriso
donors ar esmis, rom kulturas Tavisi
metyveleba, lingvistika aqvs da garkveuli
kvlevebi, mignebebi Tu WeSmaritebebis pro-
duqtebi masTan misTvis gasageb enaze unda
iqnes mitanili, raTa maTi sruli aRqma mox-
des. amaze arasamTavrobo seqtori iSviaTad
Tu zrunavs. bevri maTgani sakmaod seriozu-
li qonebis mepatrone gaxda donori organi-
zaciebis wyalobiT, magram maT Sesaxeb mxo-
lod viwro wrem icis da Sesabamisad, isini
araviTar rols ar TamaSoben ubralo adami-
anisTvis!
lela iakobaSvili _ metsac vity-
vi... esaa seqta! seqta, Tavisi metyvelebis
formatiT, Tavisi cnebiTi aparatiT. ”enjeoS-
nikebi” erTmaneTs kargad ugeben; kulturaSi
vera, magram erTmaneTSi SeaqvT SfoTi... es
arian hiperaqtiuri adamianebi, romlebic amis
realizebas socialur sivrceSi Znelad
axerxeben, amitom donorebTan metad hiperaq-
tiurni arian; SemoaqvT iseTi cnebiT apara-
ti, romelic sruliad acdenilia Cems buneb-
riv metyvelebas da misi Targmanebac ki Se-
uZlebelia da mainc Tu moxexrxda, es imde-
nad komikuria, rom statistikuri adamiani
amas ganicdis!...
zaza firaliSvili _ Cven varT
gardamavali sazogadoeba, romelic raRac
stabiluri, stuqturulad gamarTuli mdgo-
mareobisaken midis... magram ra Tqma unda,
jerjerobiT amas vakeTebT mouxeSavad, Sec-
domebiT.. magram amas ver davabraleb vercerT
xelisuflebas. es isev istoriuli Cvevebis
problemaa. yvelaferi es Caivlis, Caivlis
is, rac gvawuxebs da darCeba is, rac saWi-
roa! da Tu Cven cocxali xalxi varT, Tu
CvenSi aris cocxali muxti, energetika, nam-
dvilad gadavrCebiT! mTavaria, meti raciona-
lizmi, rac Cven gvWirdeba da naklebi egzal-
tireba.
- dRes sazogadoebaSi bevrs msjeloben
mediis problemebze, rogorc Tavad Jurna-
listebi, aseve eqspertebi, mediaproduqtis
momxmareblebi da sxv. qarTuli media aris
polarizebuli, aqvs naxevradTavisufali xa-
risxis indeqsi... rogor SeafasebdiT qarTu-
li mediis mdgomareobas da SeuZlia Tu ara
mas politikuri zegavlenisagan gaTavisuf-
leba?
lela iakobiSvili _ Tavad sazoga-
doeba mediis produqtia! amitom SemiZlia
vTqva, rom saqarTveloSi mediis reqviemi uk-
ve namReria!
ra aqvs medias saTqmeli? gaqvT rame saT-
qmeli? dRes Tqven ar gaqvT saTqmeli! is, ra-
sac Tqven politikur dakveTas eZaxiT, im po-
litikur Zalebsac ki araferi aqvT CvenTvis
saTqmeli. sazriss arcerTi ar atarebs. ver-
cerTi politikuri Zala Tavis sityvasTan
identuri ver aris. dRes ai, es problemaa,
amitom bunebrivia, rom media propagandis-
tul iaraRad iqca... arsebobs komunikaciuri
sistemis instrumentad anu ori politikuri
Zala erTmeneTs esaubreba gazeTebiT; erTi
politikuri Zala sazogadoebas esaubreba
televiziiT, ramdenime maTgani da arasamTav-
robo organizaciebi - internetT! es aris da
es! politikuri Zalis saTqmeli mediam Cemam-
de unda moitanos... sadac media Tavis funq-
cias asrulebs, sadac SemoqmedebiTi sivrcis
maprovocirebeli da makonstruirebelia da
maT Soris damlagebelia, is
media sad aris?... media aRararis, ase vityodi da is, rom axa-li media gaCndes Cems socialurorganizmSi, niSnavs, rom qar-Tul elitas, aramxolod poli-tikurs, gauCndes saTqmeli, ro-melic ar aqvs!
_ batono zaza, ra aris mizezi, rom
dRes gvaqvs is ori media da mesame, romelic
sasurvelia, jer ar Cans...
zaza firaliSvili _ 90-ian
wlebSi gabatonda tendencia, romelic
dRes mTel Cvens media-sivrces flobs.
anu politikosebma igrZnes , Tu rogori
Zala iyo media da am sivrcis daufleba
daiwyes da mediamac ikisra propaganditu-
li funqcia. Tundac imitom, rom is
sxvagvarad ver irCens Tavs. saSualo yo-
veldRiur adamians moTxovnileba aqvs
mkveTri, yviTeli informaciisken da medi-
am SesTavaza yviTeli informacia; Sesaba-
misad, mas uyalibdeba yviTeli gemovneba
da yalibdeba raRac Caketili wre, sadac
media ver grZnobs Tavis pasuxismgeblo-
bas, rom man SeiZleba Camoayalibos sazo-
gadoeba, romelic Tavisi azrovnebis kul-
turiT iqneba yviTeli. aq ukve Zalin mZi-
me pasuxismgebloba ekisrebaT Cvens Jur-
nalistebs...
lela iakobaSvili - rodesac me me-diis momxmarebeli var da erTaderTi infor-
maciis wyaroa CemTvis, vkonstruirdebi im pa-
ternebiT, romelsac is mawvdis. rodesac ga-
mokiTxvis Sedegebs aqveyneben da amboben, rom
sazogadoebam ar icis, vinaa javaxiSvili da
icis, vinaa biWola, es maTive danaSaulia!
ramdeni welia ivane javaxiSvilis saxeli
qarTul mediaSi ar gaJRerebula, maSin ro-
desac biWola „ekranidan ar Camodis“ da ra
Tqma unda, biWola ecodinebaT! mixeil java-
xiSvili, rogorc mwerali, aravis SeuTava-
zebia mediidan; arc oTar WilaZe... adamianebi
televiziidan erTsadaimave informacias iRe-
ben...
zaza firaliSvili: - Sedagad ra
gvaqvs? ramdenime ”seqtanturi dajgufebebi”
- saxelisuflebo da opoziciuri politiku-
ri partiebi, arasamTavrobo organizaciebi,
media, qveynidan gasuli adamianebi, 300000
probacioneri, 1,6 mln ubralo moqalaqe ...
lela iakobiSvili - Tavisufali
sityva, media, ganmanaTlebloba, cnobierebis
ekonomikuri parametrebi evropaSi gaerTian-
da e.w. adamianTa uflebebSi. es CvenTan, ra-
tomRac damoukidebeli organizaciaa. sruli-
ad araTavsebadi mimarTulebebi gvaqvs im Ri-
rebulebebis mimarT, romlebsac demokratiu-
li sazogadoba atarebs. demokratiuli sazo-
gadoebis ZiriTadi Rirebuleba aris adamia-
nis ufleba. mis garSemo ikribeba informaci-
is Tavisuflad gadacemis da miRebis ufle-
ba, ganaTlebis miRebisa da gadacemis ufle-
ba... es uflebaTa sivrcea da rodesac cal-
kea media, calkea saganmanaTleblo sivrce,
calkea ekonomika, sadac es yvelaferi erTma-
neTs ver grZnobs.
`obieqtivi~
Caivlis is, rac gvawuxebs da darCeba is, rac saWiroa!
3#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w. saerTo gazeTi
xelisufleba axali inicia-
tiviT gamovida _ amieridan vinc
45 wlidan 60 wlamde asakis
moqalaqes miiRebs samsaxurSi,
saSemosavlo gadasaxadis gadax-
disagan Tavisufldeba.
SesaniSnavi iniciativaa, Tum-
ca erTi nakli aqvs _ samuSao-
ze adamiani rom miiRo, samuSao
adgilebi unda arsebobdes, samu-
Sao adgilebi ki ar aris.
mocemul situaciaSi erTa-
derTi `gamosavali~ isaa, rom
45 wlamde asakis TanamSromle-
bi gaferTxo da 45 wels zemoT
vincaa, is miiRo.
ar aris gamoricxuli, zogi-
erTi organizaciis praqtiku-
lad moazrovne xelmZRvaneli
swored ase moiqces da saSemo-
savlo gadasaxadi, romelsac
aqamde sakuTari jibidan ixdida,
dazogos, Tumca aseT SemTxveva-
Si Tavs wamohyofs meore prob-
lema _ sad wavidnen 45 wlamde
asakis umuSevrad darCenili
adamianebi?!
sad wavidnen da daelodon
TavianT rigs anu im dros, ro-
ca 45 wlisani gaxdebian.
ai, ase, vicxovroT, viarse-
boT da viSromoT morigeobiT _
aqamde Tu 45 wlamde asakis
axalgazrdebi `bairamobdnen~,
axla `starikebis~ dro dadga.
saqme isea, rogorc `me, bebia,
iliko da ilarionSi~ wagvi-
kiTxavs _ Cvenc xom viyaviT am
axalgazrdebis xela? dro rom
gava, isinic xom gaxdebian Cveni
tolebi? hoda, yvelaferi rig-
zea!
modiT, vicxovroTmorigeobiT...
ivaniSvilis advokat levins
aeroportSi feradi qvebi CamoarT-
ves da laboratoriaSi waiRes ga-
sasinjad _ eWvi gvaqvs, rom am qve-
biT levins radiaqtiuli nivTiere-
bis Semotana undoda saqarTvelo-
Sio.
laboratoriulma kvlevam daa-
dastura, rom eWvi usafuZvlo iyo
da axla meore varianti Semoagdes:
_ ivaniSvili Savi magiiTa gata-
cebuli da es qvebi albaT, magiuri
ritualebis Casatareblad sWirde-
boda. miliardebi ivaniSvilma Savi
magiis saSualebiT iSovao.
ai, aq ki marTlac `moartyes~
mizanSi Cveni drois Serlok xol-
msebma.
rogorc amboben, Ramis saaTebSi,
savse mTvareobisas, miujdeba Turme
batoni biZina magidas, Sav sanTlebs
aanTebs aurdaurevs erTmaneTSi fe-
rad jadosnur qvebs, raRac saidum-
lo teqsts waikiTxavs da wkap!
dajdeba ramdenime milioni mis an-
gariSze.
TveSi ramdenjerme imeorebs iva-
niSvili am rituals da ase uSro-
melad, muqTad avsebs da avsebs ise-
dac miliardebiT savse yulabas.
ai, aseT versias gvTavazoben `na-
cionalebTan~ daaxloebuli Jurna-
listebi, Tanac, paralelurad, mki-
TxavebTan dadian da ivaniSvilis
bed-iRblis garkvevas cdiloben.
xom ar auries am sabraloebma
sabolood da SiSiT Sepyrobilebma
ar ician, ras Cadian.
Savi magia`axali memarjvenee-
bis~ liderma daviT gam-
yreliZem ganacxada: bi-
Zina ivaniSvilTan rigSi
Cadgomas ar vapirebTo.
hoda, urigod gaata-
reT, kaco, Rvawlmosi-
li partiaa, didi sta-
JiT da namsaxurobis
grZeli CamonaTvaliT.
ase rom, urigod ga-
vataroT, wina karebidan
Tu ar moxerxdeba, uka-
na karebidan SevaparoT.
eseni, es `memarjveneebi~ ukana
karebidan Separvas ufro arian daC-
veulni.
_ milionis aReba dagvabrales,
milioni ukvirT da miliarderTan
micunculeba ar eTakilebaT _ aS-
karad nawyenia `axlebis~ Tavkaci.
Tavmdablobs batoni gamyreliZe,
Torem am milionamde, rogorc ambo-
ben, sxva milioni iyo, imis iqiT ki-
dev sxva milioni, sul TavSi ki
`aldagi~ da SevardnaZe, Tavis kaxa
TargamaZesTan erTad.
boroti enebi amboben, rom swo-
red `memarjveneebis~ ofisSi miita-
nes lurji CanTiT is ramdenime mi-
lioni, romelic arCevnebSi gamarj-
vebul politpartiebs da polit-
subieqtebs daurigdaT Turme par-
lamentSi arSesvlis sazRaurad.
gaxsovT albaT, rogor gulmod-
gined aqucmacebdnen makratliT
parlamentaris mandatebs xalxis
mier arCeuli deputatebi _ Cven am
parlamentSi Sesvlas rogor vikad-
rebTo.
Salva naTelaS-
vili gaocebuli
Slida xelebs _
aba, ras viklavdiT
Tavs, Tu parlamen-
tSi Sesvlas ar va-
pirebdiTo, magram
bolos isic danebda
da Tavisi mandati
sul nakuw-nakuw aq-
cia, Tumca xelfa-
sis regularulad
aRebaze uari ar
uTqvams.
parlamentSi rom mkvdruli si-
Cumea da nacumravlesobas yvela sa-
kiTxi yovelgvari diskusiis gareSe
gaaqvT, es udavod axlebis damsaxu-
rebaa.
aba, aseT xalxs ivaniSvilTan
rigSi Cadgoma ekadrebaT?
gaatareT urigod
4 saerTo gazeTi #44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.
vveessaauubbrreebbiiTT
kkiinnooddookkuummeennttaalliissttss,,
bbaattoonn gia Wubabrias..
__ bbaattoonnoo ggiiaa,, bboolloo wwlleebb-
SSii bbeevvrrjjeerr ggaaiillaannZZRRaa ddaa
aauuggaadd iiqqnnaa mmooxxsseenniieebbuullii qqaarrTT-
vveellii iinntteelliiggeenncciiaa,, xxaann `̀wwiiTT-
lleebbii~~ iiyyvvnneenn,, xxaann `̀CCaarreeccxxiillee-
bbii~~,, mmaaggrraamm ffaarrTToo ssaazzooggaaddooee-
bbiissTTvviiss yyoovveellTTvviiss RRiirreebbuullii
ddaa ssaaiinntteerreessoo iiyyoo ddaa iiqqnneebbaa
iinntteelliiggeenncciiiiss wwaarrmmoommaaddggeenneell-
TTaa mmoossaazzrreebbaa aammaa TTuu iimm mmoovvllee-
nnaazzee.. TTqqvveenn rraa aazzrriiss xxaarrTT bbiizz-
nneessmmeenn bbiiZZiinnaa iivvaanniiSSvviilliiss ppoo-
lliittiikkaaSSii CCaarrTTvviiss SSeessaaxxeebb??
_ aseTi pirovneba, mecenati
saqarTveloSi meore ar aris.
ase farTo masStabis qvelmoq-
medebi arc sarajiSvili da
arc zubalaSvilebi ar yofi-
lan. ivaniSvilma uamravi oja-
xi gadaarCina.
kaci amden Tanxebs debs
saqveyno saqmeSi da axla urk-
veven saidan aqvs. vinme arkvevs
saidan da ra TanxebiT movida
benduqiZe? me, piradad, sura-
Tebi maqvs nanaxi, rogoraa Ca-
xutebuli putinTan. darwmune-
buli var, rom samxedro qarx-
nebs ganagebda, ese igi, kavSi-
rebi aqvs iseT fenebTan, ro-
melTac pirdapiri mtroba aqvT
gamocxadebuli saqarTvelos-
Tan. an kidev, aq rom gamdidr-
debian xolme es biznesmenebi,
imaTze kiTxulobs vinme saidan
da rogor?
rodesac qveyanaSi erovnu-
li saqmeebi da problemebia
mosagvarebeli da me vxedav,
rom es viRacas ukeTesad SeuZ-
lia, gzas davuTmob. yvela ase
unda fiqrobdes. pirveloba ar
mWirdeba, Cemze win unda iyos
is, vinc Cemze ukeTaa saqmeSi
Caxeduli. samwuxarod, Cveni,
qarTvelebis yvelaze didi
ubedureba pirvelobis avadm-
yofobaa. `sZuls RmerTsa am-
partavnoba~, _ ambobda daviT
guramiSvili.
__ iivvaanniiSSvviilliiss eerrTT-eerrTTii
pprrooggrraammaa rruusseeTTTTaann uurrTTiieerrTToo-
bbiiss ddaarreegguulliirreebbaaaa,, TTqqvveenn rroo-
ggoorr TTvvlliiTT,, ddrroomm mmooiittaannaa aammii-
ssii aauucciilleebblloobbaa??
_ Cven gvyavda brwyinvale
mefe erekle meore. igi spar-
seTSi aRizarda da madloba
RmerTs. rom mokavSired airCia
ruseTi. pirvel rigSi, es imi-
tom gakeTa, rom winaaRmdeg
SemTxvevaSi, qarTvelebi erT-
maneTs SeWamdnen. mas Zalian
mZime periodSi mouxda mefoba.
ar dagaviwydeT, rom 83 wlisa
iyo da kidev ibrZoda. yvelam
uRalata garSemo. Svilebmac
ki uRalates, maTgan saukeTeso
ki moukles da es isev qarTve-
lebma gaakeTes.
stalinmac Tqva, yvelaze
naklebi boroteba saqarTve-
losTvis ruseTTan SeerTeba
iyo. stalinizmisgan Zalian
Sors vdgavar, man gaanadgura
Cemi da kidev bevri brwyinvale
ojaxi, magram is Wkviani kaci
iyo. man msoflio faSizmisgan
gadaarCina. im dRes faSizmis
damarcxeba warmoudgeneli
iyo, amisi ardanaxva ar SeiZ-
leba.
ivaniSvili ambobs, `unda
daregulirdes ruseTTan ur-
TierToba, es uZlieresi qveya-
naa Tavisi minusebiTa da pli-
usebiT. saerTod, urTierTobe-
bis daregulireba yovelTvis
yvelasTan unda scado. sarwmu-
no wyaroebidan vici, rom ar-
Zinbas uTqvams qarTvelebisT-
vis, davsxdeT da vilaparako-
To, qarTvelebma es Turme ar
ikadres. maSin me ruseTs miv-
marTavo da daiwyo is ubedur-
ba, rac dRemde grZeldeba.
__ aannuu,, TTqqvveenn mmiieessaallmmeebbiiTT iimm
ffaaqqttss,, rroomm iivvaanniiSSvviillmmaa ppoollii-
ttiikkaaSSii mmoossvvllaa ggaaddaawwyyvviittaa ddaa
TTvvlliiTT,, rroomm qqvveeyynniissTTvviiss eess
mmoommggeebbiiaannii iiqqnneebbaa......
_ ra Tqma unda. gamoCnda bi-
Zina ivaniSvili, mis
Semdeg SeiZleba,
viRac kidev ukeTe-
si gamoCndes. mas
unda miesalmo da
ara RvarZli anT-
xio, miTumetes,
rom patara eri
varT. magram qarT-
velebs ase sCveviaT
_ erTmaneTs anad-
gureben. dRemde fe-
odalebad davrCiT.
kacma ramdenime aTeuli kvadra-
tuli miwis gulisTvis mamis,
dis da disSvilis mokvla ga-
dawyvita, aseTi ram warmoudge-
nelia. qarTvelTa umetesoba
arafers gascems saxelmwifosT-
vis, piriqiT, mudam mzadaa Zar-
cvos qveyana. mere es ZeglebTan
da mkvdrebTan brZola raRa
ubedurebaa. stalinis deda un-
da amovTxaroT saflavidano. es
ra kacobaa. an Tundac stalinis
Zegli rom gadaitanes, Tu vaJ-
kaci xar, aseTebs cocxlebs eb-
rZole. es sisulelea, mdabali
xalxis fsiqologiaa.
iseTi pirovnebisgamoCenas, rogoricbiZina ivaniSvilia,yvelasTvis misasal-mebeli unda iyos,prezidentisTvisacki. gverdiT unda dai-yenos es kaci, bevrs
moigebs. unda Sevik-raT, gavufrTxildeTCvens marTlac RvT-ismSoblis wilxvedrqveyanas,
xom xedavT, ra xdeba sxva-
gan, rogori kataklizmebia,
tornadoebi, cunamebi. Cven
madloba RmerTs, aseTi ram
ar gvemuqreba. sxvagan xalxi
ocnebobs, netavi raimem ixa-
roso. cimbirSi rom vmuSaob-
di, iq Cemma kolegebma mTxo-
ves, erTi yvavili gamogvig-
zavneT, me veubnebi, qoTanSi
Carguls gamogigzavniT-meTqi.
ara, yvavilis furceli ga-
mogvigzavneo; asea mowyurebu-
li es xalxi imas, rasac Cven
RmerTi siniT gvaZlevs. unda
gaviTvaliswinoT, rom globa-
lizaciaa, aqve Cems saxlTan
Turqi iSenebs saxls, Zalian
cudi demografiuli mdgoma-
reoba gvaqvs. msoflioSi re-
alurad dgas musulmanuri
saSiSroeba. adre xmliT vi-
cavdiT maTgan Tavs, axla Ta-
namedrove meTodebiT Semodi-
an, amas globalizacia uwyobs
xels. tolernatoba kargia,
magram zedmeti araferi var-
ga.
ivaniSvili pasuxismgeblo-
bas grZnobs qveynis winaSe da
unda mieces saSualeba, rom
imoqmedos. cota miamitic
aris xasiaTiT, es gamoixate-
ba pirdapirobaSi, magram faq-
tia, rom qveynis gadarCenis
survili amoZravebs. RmerTma
kidev erTxel gamogviwoda
gadarCenis xeli da gamoviye-
noT. Wkviani erebi mtrebs
iyeneben, Cven sakuTar patri-
otebs da keTilmosurneebs
ver viyenebT.
Wkviani kacis naTqvami
sityva minda gavigono am qve-
yanaSi. ivaniSvili Wkviania da
mivceT saSualeba, Wkua qv-
eynis sasargeblod gamoi-
yenos.
Tamuna qadagiZe
`Wkviani erebi mtersac ki saTavisod iyeneben,
Cven ki Cvens Tavdadebul patriotebs vebrZviT?~
cixeSi momxdari buntis dro dazaralebuli daviT gaixaraSvilis deda biZina
ivaniSvils mimarTavs2006 wels
cixeSi momxda-
ri buntis dr-
os dazarale-
buli, umZimes
mdgomareobaSi
myofi daviT
gaixaraSvilis
deda qeTevan
gigauri biznesmen biZina ivaniSvils Ria mi-
marTvas ugzavnis.
,,me, qeTevan gigauri, umZimes mdgomare-
obaSi Cavardnili Svilis deda, batono bi-
Zina, mogmarTavT umorCilesad, Tu odesme
rame kargi gagikeTebiaT, amaze kargs ver ga-
akeTebdiT. me Tqveni mjera, mwams... gTxovT
SemxvdiT, damelaparakeT, oRond ar momikv-
des Cemi Svili. gemudarebiT, batono biZi-
na SemxvdiT, sxva gza aRar maqvs, mikvdeba
Svili...batono biZina, Tqvenc xom gyavT
Svilebi, RmerTma didxans gicocxloT. me
es erTi Svili damrCa, gTxovT gadamirCi-
neT. RmerTi Tqven giSveliT. aucileblad
RmerTi dagifaravT, daTos daxmarebisTvis.
arafers gTxovT sxvas, SemxvdiT... minda Ce-
mi mdgomareoba agixsnaT. mikvdeba Svili da
aravin hyavs patroni”- aRniSnulia qeTevan
gigauris mimarTvaSi.
mimarTvaSi qeTevan gigauri wers, rom
man damxarebisTvis jandacvis saministro-
sac mimarTa.
,,ar gegonoT, rom ar mivmarTe jandac-
vis saministros, yvelas mivmarTe dasaxma-
reblad. miTumetes, Cemi Svili saxelmwi-
fosganaa dazaralebuli – yofili sport-
smeni, mas sicocxle unda... axalgazrdaa.
batono biZina, daTos es saSineleba cixeSi
damarTes. 2006 wels, e.w. buntis dros.
daainvalides, daamtvries, loginidan veRar
dgeba. Zalian mZimed aris ukve... aravin maq-
cevs yuradRebas... iZulebuli gavxdi, Tqven
SegawuxoT. kidev erTxel gTxovT gamware-
buli deda. sul xuT wuTs wagarTmevT,
mets - ara. es Cemi vedreba miiReT da Rmer-
Ti giSveliT Tqven da Tqvens Svilebs”- aR-
niSnulia mimarTvaSi.
irakli alasania burjanaZesTan politikur
erTobas gamoricxavspartia ,,Tavisufa-
li demokratebis” li-
deri irakli alasania
`demokratiuli moZra-
obis~ lider nino
burjanaZesTan poli-
tikur erTobas gamo-
ricxavs.
misi TqmiT, is ver
iqneba politikur er-
TobaSi iseT partiebTan, romlebic iyvnen
da rCebian radikaluri cvlilebebis moxre.
,,urTierTobas ar gamovricxav, bunebri-
via. me ar vyof Cems qveyanas da mosaxleo-
bas viRacis mxardamWerebad da viRacis mo-
winaRmdegeebad. es aris yvelas qveyana, qal-
batoni burjanaZisac, Cemic da Tqvenic. mag-
ram es sul sxva Temaa da politikuri er-
Toba da erT Zalad Camoyalibeba sxva Te-
maa, romelic gamoricxulia”, _ ganacxada
alasaniam.
`medianiusi~
5saerTo gazeTi#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.
pirvel noembers pirvelad
vnaxe (davesesxebi im viRac mai-
munebis arxis xelmZRvanels)
amdeni `gawvrTnili maimuni~ er-
Tad. ra Tqma unda, iq gauwvrT-
neli maimunebic iyvnen da Jur-
nalistebic, magram wvrTna Ta-
visas Svreba, gawvrTnilma mai-
munebma ise imaimunes, gadafares
danarCenebis arseboba Tavyri-
lobaze, romelsac ratomRac
preskonferencia erqva. iseTi
STabeWdileba darCeboda ucxo
Tvals, TiTqos erTi didi vo-
lieris win ijda biZina ivaniS-
vili da erToboda imis yure-
biT, rogor stacebdnen erTma-
neTs banan-mikrofons maimunebi,
an rogor umalavda erTi maTga-
ni danarCenebs, an rogor ver
arTmevdnen igive `xils~ imas,
romelic xelSi Caigdebda _ es
ra vnaxe!
amdeni dRe gavida da axlac
yurSi Camesmis erT-erTi `mai-
munTsaSenis~ xelmZRvanelis es
fraza `gawvrTnili maimunebi~,
im xelmZRvanelisa, romelic
ver vxvdeba, rom TviTonac gaw-
vrTnili maimunia, swored imgva-
ri, rogoric patara caxes ci-
noberi iyo, hofmanis nawarmoe-
bis personaJi;
amdeni dRe gavida `mwvane
saxlSi~ gamarTuli preskonfe-
renciidan da `gawvrTnili mai-
munebis~ Semxedvares Tan mdevs
batoni Wabuas mier daTa Tu-
TaSxias piriT naTqvami sityve-
bi: `vin xarT, Tqve ubedurebo,
ra jiSis xarT! ra giyoT da
ras dagamsgavsaT mamaZaRlma abe-
la seTurma da, ager, mosaspob-
ma Tabagarma, ar fiqrobT?! ver
xedavT amas?!~
rac biZina ivaniSvili sayo-
velTao yuradRebis centrSi
aRmoCnda da masTan interviu Tu
intervius msgavsi `baasi~ mavan-
TaTvis sanukvar ocnebad iqca
sxvadasxva mizeziT, kaci ixvewe-
ba, is mkiTxeT, rac sazogadoe-
bas ainteresebs, rac piradad
Tqven gainteresebT, nu mekiTxe-
biT imas, rac Tqvens gamomgzav-
nebs ainteresebTo, magram ver
Seasmina veravis. igives imeoreb-
da im dResac, Tan im `bananis~
taciaobas wuxda, pativi eciT
Tqvens profesias, pativi eciT
Tqvens kolegebso, mouwodebda
friad gaaqtiurebulebs. amaod
irjeboda maspinZeli, radgan
aranair mowodebas ar ZaluZs
daSoSminos aboJirebuli voli-
eri, radgan aranair caxess ar
SeuZlia, ragind gawvrTnili
iyos, damalos adamianuri Sesa-
moselidan gamomzirali prima-
tis sulis triali...
ra Tqma unda, adamianebi, e.w
Jurnalistebi Tu maRali ran-
gis Tanamdebobis pirebi veraf-
riT mixvdebian, ras vambob, `na-
xe, kolegebs sul maimunebi
uwodao~, damwameben. vinc amgva-
rad ifiqrebs, maT gasagonad ki-
dev erTxel vimeoreb, es sity-
vebi me ar miTqvams, Tqvenma
xelmZRvanelma, ase vTqvaT, `ma-
imunuri saqmianobis~ mimarTu-
lebis gezis momcemma Tqva da
albaT, icoda kidec, rasac am-
bobda. diax, Jurnalisti, rome-
lic dRes elene axvledianis
mobiluris nomers daeZebs mas-
Tan intervius Casawerad, maRa-
li Tanamdebobis piri ki akakis
saxl-muzeumSi TaiguliT xel-
Si akakis saflavs daeZebs, ra-
gind mravalgzis ganumarto
darvinis Teoria, sapirispiros
dagimtkicebs.
diax, piradad me, im dRis
Semdeg imdenad SeZruli var
qarTuli Jurnalistikis dege-
neraciiT, rom darvinsRa mivmar-
Tav: `ser Carlz, Tqven mwared
SecdiT _ adamianisgan warmoiS-
va maimuni~...
26 maisis aqciis darbevamde,
maxsovs, calkeuli politikuri
saxeebi Jurnalistebis akredi-
taciis sakiTxsac ki ayenebdnen
aqciaze dasaswrebad, maSin iTq-
va `pagoniani Jurnalistebis~
Sesaxeb Riad da Seulamazeb-
lad. mere ki, TviT 26 maisis
darbevis dros Jurnalistebis
mimarT aSkara gamoxatuli ag-
resia rom vixile sakuTari Tva-
liT, amjerad xelisuflebis
mxridan, manamde Tu aqciis mo-
nawileebisgan dafarulad mqon-
da Jurnalistis mowmoba, axla
mis moSorebaze vfiqrobdi, am
cxovelebma es rom naxon, uare-
sad gadairevian-Tqo.
stresma rom gadamiara, vam-
bobdi, ra Sari gamixda es mow-
moba, orive mxares vumalavdi-
Tqo. gasagebia, xalxi gaRiziane-
bulia imiT, rom televiziebi
araobieqturad aSuqeben qveyana-
Si mimdinare movlenebs, magram
sakuTar televiziebSi Tu un-
daT, sulac Tavdayira ivlian,
`ar mogwons? _ gadarTe!~ xom
xedaven, asea dayenebuli sa-
kiTxi-Tqo, vamarTlebdi Cems
kolegebs. erTma asakovanma qal-
ma miTxra, Svilo, RmerTma da-
gifaros, magram jer kidev sis-
xlmdinari mokluli Svili rom
win gesvenis da Seni kolegebi
naxevarwuTiani eTerisTvis, ise
rom, srulebiT ar ainteresebT,
Svili mogikles Tu qaTami, mik-
rofons gCridnen pirSi, eWvi
visze gaqvso da ukan dagedevnon
jgrod, ra ganwyoba dageufle-
bao? _ gavCumdi. Semzara...
ukve (didi xania) naTelia,
rom mikrofoni banani yofila
mravalTaTvis (rogorc, vTqvaT,
momRerali maimunebisTvis), mag-
ram Wamis (ara mxolod sakvebi-
sas) survilis dakmayofilebis
dauokebel grZnobas sadamde
mihyavs adamiani, esec me unda
vTqva? `biZia-babuasi~ ar iyos
`Serekilebidan~, ras gaswav-
lidnen, Tqve ubedurebo, sko-
laSi...
nebismier gamvlels rom
hkiTxoT, pirveli uZvelesi
profesia ra ariso, daufiqreb-
lad gipasuxebs, rom meZavobaa.
rom CaeZio, meoreo? _ Tvalebs
aafaxulebs, tuCebs aSkvers da
cas axedavs, iqneb pasuxi STa-
megonoso. nu hkiTxavT nebismier
gamvlels, im JurnalistebisT-
vis unda gekiTxaT, (romelTa
zusti raodenoba verafriT da-
vadgine, 170? 233?) mTawmindis
`mwvane saxlidan~ rom gamovid-
nen, ggoniaT, sxva suraTs mii-
RebdiT? _ meZavobis Tqmaze isi-
nic ar Seyovndebodnen, meore
profesiaze ki, gamvlelebisgan
gansxvavebiT, yurebs aafaxuleb-
dnen, egeb TviTon wamoscdes da
davimaxsovroo.
ras vizamT, roca dRevandel
zogierT e.w Jurnalists hgoni-
a, rom Jurnalistika me-20 sau-
kunis pirmSoa, (mas Semdeg gaC-
nda, rac televizori gamoCnda)
ukeTes SemTxvevaSi XIX sauku-
nis, kidev ukeTes SemTxvevaSi
XVII-XVIII saukuneebis, _ Jur-
nalistma mxolod wera-kiTxva
rom icis da `sxvagan hqris mi-
si goneba~, amis bralia es. ba-
nani-mikrofoni da misgan miRe-
buli kuWis moTxovnilebis dak-
mayofilebis grZnoba arasdros
gascems im kiTxvaze pasuxs, ro-
melia uZvelesi profesia meZa-
vobis Semdeg. am kiTxvaze rom
pasuxi gasces Jurnalistma,
jer is unda icodes, ra gansx-
vavebaa papirossa da papiruss
Soris, mere is, ra iwereboda
papirusebze da romel aTaswle-
ulebSi. (is ar unda ikiTxos,
romel wlebSio) teleJurna-
listma is mainc unda icodes,
rom Jurnalistika televiziiT
ar iwyeba, televiziiT tele-
Jurnalistikas Caeyara safuZve-
li, rom termini `Jurnalisti-
ka~ mxolod konkretuli azris
Semcveli iyo, aRniSnavda ga-
zeTs, dRiurs da ara im erTob-
liobas, romlis mravalferova-
ni saxec dRes gvaqvs...
arsad weria SaviT TeTrze,
rogori unda iyos Jurnalisti,
magram arc is weria sadme, rom
Jurnalisti Tavxedi, uzrdeli,
ukulturo, matyuara da eSmak-
ze sulmiyiduli unda iyos...
arc is weria sadme, rom
radgan uZveles profesiaTagan
pirveli meZavobaa da meore
Jurnalistoba, pirovnebaSic
pirvel-meore adgilebze (pir-
dapir Tu gadataniTi mniSvne-
lobiT) unda gadanawildes.
rodesac Jurnalisti (`pre-
sa.ge~) gamodis `mwvane saxlSi~
gamarTuli preskonferenciidan
da ambobs, biZina ivaniSvili
preskonferenciaze tyviagaumta-
ri SuSis miRma ijdao, gaxevde-
bi Tundac imitom, rom baton
merab beraZis SesaZleblobebi
gagaognebs, rogor daubrkoleb-
lad gavida `tyviagaumtar~ Su-
SaSi, _ aseTi saocari tyuilis
daxeTqeba sakuTari Tavis da-
xeTqeba rom aris, amas rom e.w
Jurnalisti ver mixvdeba da
xels moawers amaze, romeli
uZvelesi profesiis mimdevaria,
netav, misma patronma (Tu hyavs)
mainc Tu icis, Torem TviTon
rom ar icodes, verc moxvdebo-
da iq.
TviT is faqti, rom `ase na-
natri~ preskonferenciis Cata-
rebis Semdeg Jurnalistebis
qcevis sakiTxi gaxda mniSvne-
lovani da ara is, ra Tqva kac-
ma, vis gamoc Tavi daiviwya ara-
erTma mdedrma Tu mamrma, mxo-
lod imis amsaxvelia, ra qaosi-
caa isedac gaorpirqarebuli
xelisuflebis TavSi misi gamo-
CenisTanave. amas garda, aris me-
orec, e.w Jurnalistebi ise ga-
iWaWnen ivaniSvilisTvis niRbis
Camosaxsnelad e.w `CamWreli
kiTxvebis arsenaliT~ SeiaraRe-
bulebi, rom gauazreblad saku-
Tar marCenals eZgernen da ise
Camoaglijes niRabi, zogs saxis
kanic gahyva Tbil qveynebSi ga-
dafrenil mercxlebTan erTad
(mercxlis, beRurebisa da ping-
vinis `Tema~ xom ukve fsiqopa-
Tobis donemde davida Tu avi-
da).
socialur qselSi gavrcel-
da, im dRes qarTuli Jurnalis-
tika dasamarda da droulad
unda gaasvenono, _ ara, batone-
bo, qarTul Jurnalistikas ara-
feri sWirs gasasvenebeli, ubra-
lod, saxelisuflebo e.w Jur-
nalisturi nagavia gasatani,
bevri dagrovda, daxvavda da
isic iseve yars, rogorc maTi
mama-marCenalis dorbliani pi-
ri...
maia WeliZe
gawvrTnili maimunebi dabanani, saxelad mikrofoni
ixileT `saerTo gazeTi~
internetSi
www.saertogazeti.netSemogvierTdiT FACEBOOK-zzee
6 saerTo gazeTi #44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.
mas Semdeg, rac saqrTvelos
ruseTume prezidentma winandal-
Si iqeifa, icekva da sul `ka-
linka~ da `ex, darogi~ imRera,
SegviZlia kategoriulad mo-
viTxovoT: daabruneT rusuli
simRerebi qarTul restornebSi!
saqme is gaxlavT, rom SabaTs
winandalSi rusi reJisoris, pu-
tinis Zma da megobris, nikita
mixalkovis qaliSvilis qorwi-
li gaimarTa. siZe qarTveli re-
Jisoria. sakuTar qorwilSi vin
rogor moilxens, ra Cveni saq-
mea. Cven is vikiTxoT, sakuTari
prezidenti ratom daiareba qor-
wil-qorwil da Rvinisagan saxe-
dafiJvinebuli ratom pozio-
robs fotokamerebis win, TiT-
qos Zalian saamayo saqmeze iyos
Casuli winandalSi? isic vi-
kiTxoT, Tu paata burWulaZisT-
vis moskovSi simRera samSoblos
Ralatia, ra hqvia ucxo da erT
dros `persona non gratad~ ga-
mocxadebuli kacis qorwilSi
kuntruSs? da saerTodac, Tu
xelisuflebisTvis nebadarTu-
lia cnobil rus saxeebTan gar-
Toba, ratom aris CvenTvis akr-
Zaluli saqmiani urTierTobebic
ki? da bolos, am xelisuflebas
saerTod namusi aqvs da ramis
cxvenia?
ise, msgavsi ritorikuli
kiTxva bolo namdvilad ver iq-
neba da Tu ratom, amas qveviT
vnaxavT.
saSiSi vaqcina
naxevrad gayidul da gasayi-
dad gamzadebul bavSvTa polik-
linikebSi sagangaSo ambavi gavr-
celda. eqimebs treningebi Cau-
tares da gaafrTxiles, rom mi-
Rebulia axli vaqcina yivanaxve-
la, difteriisa da wiTelasT-
vis, romelic CexeTidan Semoi-
tanes. jandacvis saerTaSoriso
organizaciam am preparats li-
cenzia ar mianiWa. wamlis legi-
timaciisaTvis saqarTvelos xe-
lisuflebam adgilze moaxdina
vaqcinis licenzireba da polik-
linikebSi ise Seitana. am
acras ufasod akeTeben,
oRond eqimebi mSoblebs
afrTxileben, rom saSi-
Sia patarebisTvis, visac
ZaRlis bewvze alergia
aqvs. rogor unda mixvdes
deda, axalSobils aler-
gia raze aqvs, Zneli ga-
sarkvevia. mTavaria, rom
poliklinikebs parale-
lurad aqvT xarisxiani wamali,
romelic 38 lari Rirs da
mSoblebs araoficialurad afr-
Txileben, Tu Zalian ar giWirT,
nu gariskavT, isev fasiani acra
gaukeTeTo. Catarda Tu ara ten-
deri Cexuri vaqcinis Semotana-
ze, ramdeni daixarja biujeti-
dan, an vin gariska aralicenzi-
rebuli vaqcinis Semotana, sa-
xelmwifo saidumloebad rCeba.
saidumloa isic, Tu visi bizne-
sia vaqcinebis Semotana da vin
iSova fuli uvargisi wamlis
realizebiT. SarSan poliklini-
kebi 100-140 larad hyiddnen
sxvadasxva warmoebis analogiur
vaqcinebs. maSin jandacvis cent-
ri amtkicebda, rom saqarTvelo-
Si fasiani vaqcina ar arsebobs
da es saqme ver iqneba kerZo biz-
nesis obieqti. am gancxadebebis
miuxedavad, bavSvebi isev fulis
Sovnis obieqtad rCebian da Ta-
nac Zalian sarisko TamaSSi ari-
an moxvedrilebi, ise, rom amis
Sesaxeb xSirad mSoblebmac ara-
feri ician.
kidev erTi
mamali tyuili
Semdegi saxelisuflebo afe-
ra axal salaro aparatebs
Seexeba. sagadasaxado samsaxu-
ris ofisebSi misul biznesme-
nebs didi, magram kargad nac-
nobi siurprizi xvdebaT: ufa-
so qveyanaze araferia, gadai-
xadeT 306 lari. es sagadasa-
xados moTxovnaa. im sagadasa-
xadosi, romlis yofili Sefi
erTi wlis ganmavlobaSi
gvmoZRvravda, rom axal sala-
ro aparatebs mewarmeebisTvis
saxelmwifo SeiZenda. rogorc
sazogadoebisaTvis aris cnobi-
li, axali salaro aparati
GPRS sistemazea mierTebuli da
obieqtis mflobels Tavisuf-
lad SeuZlia, sakuTari maRazia
an obieqti akontrolos. am sis-
temis saSualebiT sagadasaxado
inspeqtoric onlain-reJimSi xe-
davs da akontrolebs, Tu ro-
gor mimdinareobs sagadasaxado
angariSsworeba.
rogorc oficialurad acxa-
deben, Semosavlebis samsaxursa
da kompania Daisy Technology-sSoris xelmowerili xelSekru-
lebiT, SeZenilia 100 000 cali
salaro aparati. maTi SeZena 13
300 000 dolari dajda. nawyve-
ti sagadasaxado samsaxuris
SarSandeli informaciidan: `sa-
laro aparats 3 weli eqneba ga-
rantia da is ufasod gadaecema
im mewarmeebs, visi biznesic 250
000 laris brunvas ar aRemate-
ba, xolo im mewarmes, romlis
biznesis brunva am Tanxaze me-
tia, finansTa saministros Tav-
dapirveli dapirebis miuxedavad,
salaro aparatis SeZena mouwevs.
aparati 300 lari Rirs~.
calsaxad SegviZlia vTqvaT,
rom mTavrobam mewarmeebisTvis
micemuli piroba kidev erTxel
daarRvia da komerciuli inte-
resiT moqmedeba daiwyo. `fuli,
babaia, fuli!~ _ am xelisufle-
bis maradiuli devizia. Tu ga-
viTvaliswinebT, rom dRevande-
li mdgomareobiT, oficialur
reestrSi 355 aTasi subieqtia
aRricxuli, unda vikiTxoT, ro-
gor apirebda Semosavlebis sam-
saxuri 100 000 salaro apara-
tis ganawilebas? SeuZlebeli
iyo, 250 000 larze naklebi
brunva mxolod 100 000 mewar-
mes hqonoda. hoda, sagadasaxdo-
mac martivi gamosavali ipova:
iyidos iman, visac fuli aqvs.
marTalia, oficialurad amas
aravin adasturebs, magram yvela
mewarme fiqrobs, rom Zveli apa-
ratebis moqmedebis vada wlis
bolos amoiwureba, anu wlis
bolomde axali salaro apara-
tebi, mTeli saqarTvelos masS-
tabiT, yvela savaWro obieqtSi
unda daidgas. vinc ver moaxer-
xebs SeZenas, bunebrivia, soli-
durad dajarimdeba. arada, Zali-
an bevria iseTi mcire mewarme,
vinc wlis dasawyisSi Zlivs mo-
axerxa salaro aparatis SeZena
da axla sagadasaxado isev
Txovs, oTusbirad SeiZinos axa-
li aparatebi. isic sakiTxavia,
290 larad Rirebul nivTs ra-
tom yidis saxelmwifo 306 la-
rad da vis jibeSi midis is 16
lari?
papapa, ra SeRavaTebia!
mogexsenebaT, prezidenti bi-
Zina ivaniSvilis gamoCenam ise
aSala, rom dapirebas dapirebaze
iZleva da iseT Tamasuqebs ari-
gebs, sulsa da guls uxaria. am-
Jamad, miSas didi sazrunavi is
Suaxnis xalxia, vinc Tavis
droze TviTon moisrola drois
sanagveze da faqtobrivad, saqmi-
anobis ufleba aukrZala. ro-
gorc Cans, prezidentma, zurike-
lasaviT igrZno, rom es misi
yvelaze seriozuli `garRvevaa~
da amis gamosasworeblad axali
Tamasuqi isrola: kompania, ro-
melic 45-60 wlis moqalaqes
daasaqmebs, gaTavisufldeba saSe-
mosavlo gadasaxadisgan. ex, mi-
Sa, miSa, egre dawvrilmanebac ar
Rirs. sad unda daasaqmon, roca
samuSao adgilebis deficitia
da Tanac am gadasaxads biznesi
ki ara Cven, moqalaqeebi vixdiT
sakuTari xelfasidan, anu saku-
Tari jibidan.
2007 wels, ori gadasaxadi
- saSemosavlo da sacialuri ga-
erTianda. Tu adre daqiravebuli
xelfasidan saxelmwifo biu-
jetSi saSemosavlo gadasaxadis
saxiT 12%-s ixdida, damqirave-
beli ki socialuri gadasaxadis
saxiT 20%-s, cvlilebebis Sem-
deg, am ori gadasaxadis gadamx-
deli mxolod daqiravebuli
gaxda da xelfasis 25%-is ga-
daxda daekisra. es drakonuli
gadawyvetileba maSin swored
damsaqmeblis, anu potenciuri
investoris gulis mosagebad mi-
iRes da gadasaxadis mTeli sim-
Zime daqiravebuls daakisres.
erTi sityviT, xelisuflebam sa-
kuTari cxovreba Cvens xarjze
aiwyo. dRes ki ratom cdiloben
amis gamosworebas, yvela kargad
xedavs.
es iniciativac rom blefia
da araferi aqvs saerTo realo-
basTan, amaze yvela biznesmeni,
sxvaTa Soris, Riad laparakobs.
maTi zogadi komentari aseTia:
skeptikurad vuyureb am inicia-
tivas, radgan ara mgonia, aman
vinmes rame SeRavaTi moutanos.
Tu axali samuSao adgilebi ar
Seiqmna, bazari ar gaizarda, ra
Seicvleba? ra, Zvelebi unda ga-
uSvan da Suaxnis xalxi miiRon?
es iniciativa gaamarTlebs maSin,
Tu ekonomikaSi realurad momen-
taluri zrda wava~.
ufro kategoriulia irak-li petriaSvili, gaerTiane-buli profkavSirebis xelmZRva-
neli:
_ CvenSi asaki namdvilad gan-
msazRvrelia, diskriminaciulad
ganmsazRvrelic. xSirad adamia-
nebs dasaqmebaze uars eubnebian
asakis gamo. damlageblis vakan-
siebic ki 20-25 wlamde aris.
Zalian zogadi gancxadebaa da
rogoria misi qveteqstebi, ar
viciT. miT ufro, ganmarteba ga-
akeTes, rom es xalxi sam-sami
TviT dasaqmdebian. xom ar gaxde-
ba es iniciativa sababi imisTvis,
rom axalgazrdebi daiTxovon, an
kadrebi maqsimalurad gadaiyva-
non samTvian xelSekrulebebze?
iqneb isic moxdes, rom asakova-
ni TanamSromelebi saxlSi gauS-
van da mere xelaxla aiyvanon.
gasagebia, rom gvinda xalxis da-
saqmeba, Tanac yvelaze ganawyene-
buli fenis, magram ramdenad iq-
neba es iniciativa gadamwyveti,
Zneli saTqmelia.
p.s. kidev erTi mniSvnelova-
ni sircxvili gasuli kviris
samTavrobo sisuleleebidan: sa-
qarTvelo, `principuli da Se-
uqcevadi~ poziciis miuxedavad,
daTanxmda ruseTis saerTaSori-
so organizaciaSi gawevrianebas.
gaiJRera, rom monitorings
sazRvrebze ara saerTaSoriso
organizaciebi, aramed, kerZo pi-
rebi ganaxorcieleben. agaSenaT
RmerTma, fulis Sovnis kidev
erTi wyaro da isic rusebTan
erTad. verafers ityvi, ician bi-
Webma fulis keTeba patriotu-
lad da samSoblos xarjze!
manana gegiZe
ixileT `saerTo gazeTi~
internetSi
www.saertogazeti.netSSeemmooggvviieerrTTddiiTT FACEBOOK-zzee
prezidentis rusuli qeifi, akrZaluli vaqcina bavSvebisTvisda sagadasaxados kidev erTi tyuili, anu rogor viSovoT fuli mosaxleobis xarjze?
7saerTo gazeTi#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.
,,saerTo gazeTis~ stumaria
politologi ramaz sayvare-liZe:
_ batono ramaz, biZina iva-
niSvilis preskonferencias fei-
erverki uwodeT. ra gaZlevT
amis Tqmis safuZvels?
_ feirverki vuwode ara
mxolod biZina ivaniSvilis ga-
mosvlas, aramed mTlianad iq
Seqmnil mdgomareobas. situacia
atarebda ara preskonferenciis,
aramed politikuri duelis
iers xelisuflebasa da ivaaniS-
vils Soris. xelisuflebis po-
zicia samTavrobo mediis Jur-
nalistebi axovanebdnen. TiTqmis
yvela qveyanSi arsebobs mediis
garkveuli jgufi, romelic gar-
kveul politikur ZalebTan
asocirdeba da maTi interesebis
gamtarebelia. romelime poli-
tikur segmentTan dakavSirebui-
li Jurnalistebi, rogorc wesi,
mxolod romantiulad ar arian
maTTan mierTebuli. mediis war-
momadgenlebi politikuri eli-
tisgan sxvadasxva saxis davale-
bebs Rebuloben, romelic poli-
tikosebis strategias emsaxure-
ba. CemTvis yvelaze ufro metad
saintereso iyo Tu ra strate-
gia hqonda xelisuflebas, xo-
lo, meore mxriv, ra sapasuxo
manevrebs Caatarebda ivaniSvili
imis gaTvaliswinebiT, rom kiTx-
vebic da pasuxebic metnaklebad
momzadebuli iyo.
_ Tqveni azriT, ra strar-
tegia aqvs xelisuflebas?
_ jerjerobiT, xelisufle-
bis strategiad kvlav rCeba ru-
sul Temaze apelireba. aRara-
fers vambob, beRurebze, pingvi-
nebsa da mercxlebze.
_ relurad, visi feirverki
iyo saxelisuflebo mediis Tu
ivaniSvilis?
_ ra Tqma unda, es iyo biZi-
na ivaniSvilis feierverki. po-
litikur duelSi, Cemda gasakvi-
rad, ivaniSvilma sakmaod kar-
gad imuSava. imis gaTvaliswine-
biT, rom nino JiJilaSvilTan
micemul interviuSi emociuri
reaqcia im nawilSi gamoavlina,
sadac ar unda gamoexata. yvelas
gasakvirad, ivaniSvilma mSvi-
dad,GRimil-sicilSi Caatara
preskonferencia, magram, praqti-
kulad, arc erTi pozicia ar
daTmo. amis gakeTeba politiko-
sis mxridan ukve didi warmate-
baa.
_ batono ramaz, saqarTvel-
oSi ramdenad arsebobs imis re-
sursi, rom ivaniSvilma dagegmi-
li ganaxorcielos?
_ im adamianTa ricxvs ar mi-
vekuTvnebi vinc, Tvlis, rom
dRevandeli ivaniSvili politi-
kuri TvalsazrisisaT, misi sa-
boloo saxea. is mudmivad icv-
leba, mudmivad swavlbs, Tu ro-
gori unda iyos axal ampluaSi.
erTi Tvis win ufro agresiuli
iyo, dRes gacilebiT Riaa, erTi
Tvis win SedarebiT nakleb sa-
kiTxebze hqonda pozicia, dRes
ukve es maCvenebeli gazrdilia.
ase rom, biznesmeni nel-nela ir-
gebs politikosis imijs da al-
baT, mis poziciebis Camoyalibe-
basTan dakavSirebT, Zalian bev-
ri siaxle gvelodeba. marTalia,
biZina ivaniSvili politikaSi
moumzadebeli Semovida, magram
is yvela sakiTxs racionalurad
udgeba da uars ar ambobs iswav-
los, es ki qarTul politikaSi
namdvilad didi iSviaTobaa.
_ sofel WorvilaSi maswav-
leblebma ivaniSvilis moqalaqe-
obis aRdgenasTan dakavSirebiT,
xelmowerebis Segroveba da-
iwyes. maT ukve SeuerTdnen sa-
zogadobis warmomadgenlebic:
momRerlebi, msaxiobebi. vrcel-
deba informaciac, rom Tavad sa-
akaSvils, misi gundis wevrebic
urCeven, biznesmens daubrunos
moqalaqeoba. Tqveni azriT, xe-
lisufleba wava am daTmobaze?
_ gaaCnia sasworis meore
mxareze ra ideba. xelisufleba
Tu dainaxavs, rom safrTxe emuq-
reba, moqalaqeobas daubrunebs.
im SemTxvevaSi Tu mTavrobis
bed-iRbali ar Seicvleba, cxa-
dia, daTmobaze ar wava da uaris
mTqmelad darCeba.
_ Tqveni azriT, rogor ajo-
bebs xelisuflebisTvis wavides
daTmobaze da daubrunos moqa-
laqeoba Tu ara?
_ mgonia, saakaSvili ivaniS-
vils moqalaqeobas aRar daub-
runebs da ecdeba procesi maq-
simalurad gawelos, raTa ufro
bevri berketi CarTos politi-
kur brZolaSi.
_ SesaZlebelia Tu ara, vi-
Tareba revoluciur procesebSi
gadaizardos?
_ sruliad SesaZlebelia,
ivaniSvilis winaaRmdegobis miu-
xedavad. mas ar surs viTarebis
daZabva da revoluciur proce-
samde misvla. ar gamovricxav
revoluciuri scenaris ganviTa-
rebis iniciatori Tavad xeli-
sufleba iyos. amisaTvis dasaS-
vebia, nacmoZraobam ivaniSvilis
gundSi Canergos admianebi rom-
lebic procesebis revoluciuri
meTodebiT ganviTarebaze imuSa-
veben. mosaxleoba Tu quCeSi ga-
movida wesrigis damyarebis au-
cileblobiT, mmarTveli gundi
Zalas gamoiyenebs. Semdeg ki sx-
va radikalurad ganwyobili op-
ozicioneris msgavsad, ivaniSvi-
lsac miakereben rusul iarl-
iys. Tu rogor ganviTardeba
movlenebi mxolod, sazogadoe-
baze araa damokidebuli, ganm-
sazRvreli iqneba, ra strategi-
as airCevs xeliseufleba.
_ preskonferenciidan gamoC-
nda, rom Tu ivaniSvils moqala-
qeobas ar daubruneben, mzadaa,
sakuTari ndobiT aRWurvili pi-
ri Cauyenos saTaveSi politkur
partias. am formiT ra Sansebi
aqvs biZina ivaniSvils?
_ ra Tqma unda, Sansebi kle-
bulobs, radgan politikuri
persona qarTveli amomrCevlisT-
vis Zalian mniSvnelovania. xeli-
suflebas sakmaod saTanado da
didi resursebi gaaCnia imisTvis,
rom dafiqrdes, gaanalizos si-
tuacia ukan daxios, sadac saWi-
roa da sabolood gamarjvebas
miaRwios. 2009 wlis aprilis
movlenebisas swored ase moiqca.
aqamde Tu xelisufleba impul-
surad da emociurad moqmedebda,
situacias dawynarebs da Seimu-
Savebs sxva strategias. maT Se-
uZliaT Tavi daanebon ruseTis
TemiT spekulirebas, putinis
proeqtobas da Semoagdon sul
sxva gegma, magaliTisTvis: viTom
biZina ivaSvili saakaSvilis
proeqtia.
_ ras moigebs amiT saakaSvi-
li?
_ amiT SeuZlia opoziciu-
rad ganwyobili sazogadoeba,
romelic Tavis molodinebs bi-
Zina ivaniSvilTan akavSirebs Ca-
moacilos im motiviT, rom Se-
sakrebTa gadanacvlebiT ubra-
lod, situacia ar icvleba. xe-
lisuflebas am kondiciamde mis-
vla Zaliam martivad SeuZlia
yovelgvari Tofisa da joxis
gamoyenebis gareSe. amitom sau-
bari TiTqos xelisuflebam yve-
lanairi resursi amowura, naad-
revia.
_ miuxedavad imisa, rom iva-
niSvils aqamde ar Seuqmnia par-
tia, ar gamoucxadebia samoqmedo
gegma, sazogadoebis mxridan mainc
didi mxardaWeriT sargeblobs.
Tqveni azriT, ra aris mizezi, ara
mgonia ganmsazRvreli mxolod
qvelmoqmedeba yofiliyo?
_ qvelmoqmedeba ivaniSvilis-
Tvis piaris Semadgenel kompo-
nentad iqca. mosaxleobas SesaZ-
lebloba mieca ivaniSvilis pi-
rovnebaze garkveuli warmodgena
Seqmnoda. adamiani, romelic qar-
Tvel fenomenebs ki ar ebrZvis,
piriqiT, xels uwyobs. faqtob-
rivad, amiT saakaSvilis antipo-
di gamovida. xelisuflebas Sec-
domebi rom ar daeSva sakadro
cvlilebebis dros, erovnuli
Rirebulebebis SenarCunebaSi,
mSvidobianobaSi, teritoriuli
mTlianobis sakiTxTan dakavSi-
rebiT, sazogadoebis mxridan
aseTi reaqcia ar iqneboda. dRes
ivaniSvilze gaCnda molodini,
rom is daicavs saqarTvelos da
qarTvelebs.
_ ivaniSvili apirebs Camoaya-
libos samoqalaqo moZraoba
,,qarTuli ocneba~ razea damoki-
debuli maTi warmateba?
_ simarTle giTxraT, gauge-
baria, biZina ivaniSvili ratom
ayalibes msgavi tipis moZraobas.
misi mxridan es nabiji moumza-
deblad meCveneba. sazogadoebri-
vi moZraoba stiqiurad isedac
Seiqmna. ,,qarTu bankis~ win Sek-
rebili adamianebi amis naTeli
magalia. ufro saintereso iqne-
boda ivaniSvils Sesabamisi nabi-
jebi stiqiurad ganwyobili sa-
zogadoebis SesanarCuneblad ga-
daedga. moZraobaSi gasawevria-
neblad xalxi sxvadasxva moti-
viT miva. zogs miliarderis ji-
besTan miaxloba moundeba, nawi-
li xelisuflebis davalebiT,
ase rom ivaniSvils sazogadoeb-
rivi moZraoba sakmao proble-
mebs Seuqmnis.
_ ivaniSvili did imedebs am-
yarebs arCevnebe. Tqveni azriT,
ra Sansebi aqvs, roca saakaSvi-
lis gundi arevnebTan dakavSi-
rebul piarsa da politteqno-
logiebs sakmaod kargad flobs?
_ am etapze Sansebze saubari
miWirs, radgan biznesmenis po-
litikaSi gamoCenis Semdeg so-
cialur gamokvlevebs ar gavcno-
bivar. CemTvis, rogorc saqarT-
velos moqalaqisTvis isic sakma-
risi iqneba, rom ivaniSvilma
mmarTvel partias umravlesobiT
mosvlis SesaZlebloba ar mis-
ces. miviRoT parlamenti sadac
ZalTa balansi 50-50 iqneba. iWi-
davon politikosebma da ase ga-
daWran problemebi. miTumtes,
premier-ministrs parlamentis
wevrebi irCeven da saintereso
iqneba, sakanonmdeblo organoSi
ra kuTxiT ganviTardeba movle-
nebi. amis miRweva biznesmens yo-
velgvari piarteqnologiebis ga-
reSec SeuZlia.
_ ra SeiZleba gaxdes arCev-
nebze ivaniSvilisTvis warmate-
bis garanti?
_ rasakvirvelia, misi imiji,
mis irgvliv gaerTianebuli sa-
zogadoebisa da politikuri Za-
lebis konsolidacia, romelic
sakmaod didi resursia da mesa-
me, rogorc Cans, ivaniSvilis
Sesaxeb erTnairi poziciebi aqvs
aSS da ruseTs. ruseTs rogorc
Cvevia, maincdamainc ar qirqi-
lebs iaSvilis figuraze, rusu-
li media aSuqebs, magram neitra-
lurad da maTi pozicia gasage-
bia. ivaniSvilis xelisuflebaSi
mosvlis SemTxvevaSi ruseTs eq-
neba qarTul mTavrobasTan mo-
laparakebis SesaZlebloba dRe-
vandeli xelisuflebis pirobeb-
Si es SeuZlebelia. medvedevs
saqarTvelos mTavrobTan mola-
parakebebis dawyeba ukve sWirde-
ba imisTvis, rom evropuli do-
nis qveyanad iqces.
_ Tqveni azriT, ivaniSvilma
arCvenebis dros unda CarTos
mxolod ucxoeli piarteqnolo-
giebis mcodne adamianebi, mxo-
lod qarTveli Tu orive er-
Tad?
_ Tu mxolod ucxoel spe-
cialists aiyvans is Tavis qvey-
nis gamocdilebas SesTavazebs,
ramac saqarTveloSi, SesaZloa
ar gaamarTlos. Tu mxolod ad-
gilobriv specialists daeyrd-
noba, man SeiZleba Tanamedrove
piaarteqnologiebi ar icodes,
amitom, adgilobrivma da ucxo-
elma specialistebma erTobli-
vad unda imuSaon. am etapze ru-
sebs aqvT yvelaze saukeTeso pi-
ari. isini elcinis arevnebisas
gaiwvrTnen, roca Camoiyvanen ame-
rikeli specialistebi, romleb-
mac rus specialistebTan er-
Toblivad imuSaves da warmate-
basac miaRwies.
_ gavrcelda informacia,
rom xelisuflebam samxedro mo-
xaliseebis wvrTna daiwyo, xom
ar emzadebian qveynaSi qaosis
dawyebisaTvis?
_ analogiuri procebisTvis,
rogorc Cans, emzadebian. gavrce-
lebuli informaciiT, mzaddeba
araformaluri struqturebi,
romelTac, SesaZloa, saerTo ar
aqvT xelisuflebasTan da sazo-
gadoebaSi, ubralod, terorisa
da SiSis danergvas emsaxureba.
miranda nabaxteveli
`CemTvis, rogorc saqarTvelos moqalaqisTvisisic sakmarisi iqneba, rom ivaniSvilma
mmarTvel partias umaravlesobiT mosvlis SesaZlebloba ar misces~
8 saerTo gazeTi #44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.
ggvveessaauubbrreebbaa `̀jjiippaass~~
rreeqqttoorrii,, ffiilloossooffoossii
giorgi margvelaSvili::
__ bbaattoonnoo ggiioorrggii,, aaxxaallii
ZZaalliiss ggaammooCCeennaamm ppoolliittiikkuurr
ccxxoovvrreebbaaSSii aaxxaallii rreeaalloobbaa
SSeeqqmmnnaa.. rrooggoorr ggeessaaxxeebbaaTT mmoovv-
lleenneebbiiss SSeemmddggoommii ggaannvviiTTaarreebbaa,,
rraa ccvvlliilleebbeebbiiaa mmoossaallooddnneellii??
_ diax, marTlac axali re-
alobis winaSe aRmovCndiT, ga-
moCnda alternatiuli gravi-
taciis centri, anu Zala, ro-
melic aramxolod movlenebis
sxvagvari SefasebiT, gansxvav-
deba, aramed mas seriozuli
wona, politikuri mniSvneloba
gaaCnia. Sedegad, ori gravita-
ciuli centri Camoyalibda,
rac aqamde ar arsebobda, anu
realurad gaCnda alternativa.
es pirveli pozitivi iyo, rac
qarTul politikur sivrceSi
ivaniSvilis gamoCenas ukavSir-
deba. ufro zustad rom
vTqvaT, pozitiuria ukve is,
rom qarTul sazogadoebaSi,
maT Soris politikur sivrce-
Sic, gansxvavebuli politiku-
ri Sexedulebebis arsebobam
legitimuri xasiaTi miiRo.
samwuxarod, Cveni xeli-
suflebis azrovneba, msoflm-
xedveloba, politikuri kredo
ori centris arsebobasac ki
ewinaaRmdegeba. Sesabamisad, ma-
Ti nabijebis mimarTuleba tra-
diciulad Semdegia: maT undaT,
rom arsebobdes mxolod erTi
unitaruli, maTi politikuri
sivrce. am tendenciam, Cveni
xelisufleba avtoritarizmam-
de miiyvana da saakaSvili co-
ta ar iyos tiraniasTan gaaTa-
maSa kidec... samwuxarod, am sa-
kiTxis mimarT xelisuflebis
damokidebuleba ar Secvlila,
dRes mcdelobaa isev im unita-
rul politikur realobas da-
vubrundeT. Sesabamisad, Zneli
saTqmelia ra qmedebebs gana-
xorcieleben. magram Tu wina
wlebs gadavxedavT, TvalsaCi-
no gaxdeba, rom es sqema yo-
velTvis garedan iyo mxardaWe-
rili. kerZod, iyo es sakuTa-
ri xalxis darbeva-dapatimre-
ba, Tu arCevnebis dros motyu-
eba, nebismier SemTxvevaSi, am
yvelafers garedan hqonda Tu
ara mxardaWera, mimRebloba ma-
inc. magram, viTareba Secvli-
lia. dRes, xelisuflebis mi-
marT msgavsi mxardaWera gare-
dan ar Cans. anu aRar muSaobs
Zveli sqema, rodesac xeli-
sufleba Tavisi represiuli
manqaniT „agvarebda“ viTarebas
da Semdeg amas aravin irgvliv
ar amCnevda. aseT viTarebaSi
rogor moaxerxebs xelisuf-
leba kidev erTxel Caidinos
danaSauli kacobriobisa da
Tavisi xalxis winaSe da mo-
iqces ise, rogorc icis, ro-
gorc sCvevia? ar Cans, rom
aseTi saqcieli garedan iqneba
mxardaWerili, dRes vandalu-
ri politikis mimarT mzaobas
ver vxedav. Sesabamisad, xeli-
sufleba Cveuli sqemis gareT
darCa. amitom Zneli saTqmelia
ras moimoqmedebs igi.
__ rraass nniiSSnnaavvss 1188 eellCCiiss
ssttuummrroobbaa mmiiss kkaarrzzee,, iimmaass xxoomm
aarraa,, rroomm ddaassaavvlleellii ggaarree ZZaa-
lleebbiicc mmxxaarrss uuWWeerreenn iivvaanniiSS-
vviillss??
_ CemTvis Zneli saTqmelia
ra formiT xdeba xolme es ga-
rigebebi. saxezea faqtebi. 25
maiss sakuTari eris, qveynis,
zogadad demokratiuli prin-
cipebis winaSe danaSauli iqna
Cadenili, meore dRes ki amave
adgilas aRlumi tardeba, ra-
sac saerTaSoriso Tanamegob-
robis mxridan mSvidi Sefase-
bebi eZleva. aseTi antisaxelm-
wifoebrivi qmedebisTvis xeli-
suflebas saerTaSoriso Tana-
megobrobis mxridan mwvane Su-
qi aqvs anTebuli. ivaniSvilis
SemTxvevaSi ar vici, rogor
iqneba es sakiTxi. magram faq-
tia, rom ivaniSvils aqvs mxar-
daWera, rac legitimizirebu-
lia Tundac elCebis vizitiT.
ivaniSvili saerTaSoriso Ta-
namegobrobis mier mxardaWeri-
lia, rogorc kandidati, ro-
melTanac bandituri formiT
urTierToba daSvebuli ar
aris. amiT ar vambob TiTqos
ivaniSvili awyobs msoflios,
an saakaSvils cvlian ivaniSvi-
liT. magram is, rom ivaniS-
vils imuniteti gaaCnia saakaS-
vilis vandalizmis sapirispi-
rod, es aSkaraa.
__ 2255 mmaaiissiiss RRaammeess ddaa 2266 mmaa-
iissiiss ddiillaass ggaannvviiTTaarreebbuull mmoovv-
lleenneebbss TTqqvveenn ddeemmookkrraattiiiiss ddaa-
ssaassrruullii uuwwooddeeTT.. rraa SSeeiiZZlleebbaa
SSeeccvvaallooss aaxxaallmmaa ppoolliittiikkuurrmmaa
ZZaallaamm TTuunnddaacc ddeemmookkrraattiiuulloo-
bbiiss kkuuTTxxiiTT??
_demokratia marTlac das-
rulda maSin, roca 25 maisis
Rames rusTavelze vandalizmi
moxda, meore dRes ki am adgi-
las taS-fanduri moewyo;
mkvlelobis adgilas zeimi mo-
ewyo. ra SeiZleba moxdes ax-
la? _ yvelafers viwyebT Ta-
vidan, gvaqvs mcdeloba, kidev
erTxel davemsgavsoT civilur
saxelmwifos. ramdenad SesaZ-
lebelia Tu ara es, am etapze
Zneli saTqmelia, es nel-nela
gamoikveTeba. jerjerobiT iva-
niSvilis politikuri saxe ik-
veTeba, rogorc uaRresad ra-
cionaluri, gawonasworebuli
politikuri lideris. es da-
mokidebulia imaze, samomav-
lod misi politikuri qmede-
bebi ramdenad iqneba mimarTu-
li Tanamedrove liberalur-
demokratiuli saxelmwifos
mSeneblobisken. misi ritorika
imedismomcemia, anu ritorikis,
Rirebulebebis doneze, racio-
nalizmis xarisxis gaTvalis-
winebiT, ivaniSvili dadebiTi
figuraa. magram realurad ra
moxdeba Zneli saTqmelia.
_TTuummccaa,, mmaass ggaannssxxvvaavveebbiiTT
ppaattaarrkkaacciiSSvviilliissggaann ssttrruuqqttuu-
rraa CCaammoouuyyaalliibbeebbeellii aaqqvvss.. rraamm-
ddeennaadd iimmooqqmmeeddeebbss eess mmiissii ggeegg-
mmiiss ssiissrruulleeSSii mmooyyvvaannaazzee??
_ patarkaciSvilis da iva-
niSvilis Sedareba yovelTvis
xelovnuri mgonia. patarkaciS-
vili ivaniSvilisgan gansxvave-
biT TviTon ar iyo politiku-
ri lideri. patarkaciSvili
iyo politikuri procesis mas-
timulirebeli. patarkaciS-
vils hqonda garkveuli poli-
tikuri resursebi, romelic
gamoixateboda mis kontaqteb-
Si, finansur resursSi, media-
saSualebebSi. ivaniSvilma, dR-
es, Tavisi politikuri ganvi-
Tarebis am etapze, politiku-
rad sul sxva realoba fulis,
media-resursis gareSe Seqmna.
mas, garda Tavisi pirovnebisa,
jer sxva araferi CaurTia am
procesSi. bunebrivia, xeli-
suflebac Zalian daexmara Ta-
visi ugunuri qmedebebiT. pa-
tarkaciSvilis dros sxva sqe-
ma moqmedebda, iyo ufro Zli-
eri opozicia. ivaniSvili ub-
ralod gamoCnda da man Tqva,
rom is aris alternativa da
mxolod amis deklarirebiT
Seqmna alternatiuli realo-
ba; yvela danarCenma am alter-
natiuli gravitaciuli velis
garSemo triali daiwyo. anu
ivaniSvili Tavisi pirovnebiT
zemoqmedebs procesebze, pa-
tarkaciSvili ki procesze ze-
moqmedebda resursebiT. jerje-
robiT ar gamoCenila ivaniSvi-
lis arc finansuri da arc
sxva resursi, magram vxedavT,
rom realoba ukve Secvlila.
Tu ivaniSvili warmatebiT ga-
arTmevs Tavs Semdgom etapebs
_ struqturebis Seqmnas, mis
Sesabamis aRWurvas, mediis sa-
kiTxis gadawvetas, mas buneb-
rivia seriozuli warmatebis
giorgi margvelaSvili:giorgi margvelaSvili: `ivaniSvilisgansakuTrebiT didi pliusi isaa,
rom igi bevrad ufro gawonasworebulia,
vidre nebismieri politikuri
lideri
ixileT `saerTo gazeTi~
internetSi
www.saertogazeti.netSSeemmooggvviieerrTTddiiTT FACEBOOK-zze
9#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w. saerTo gazeTi
winapiroba gaaCnia, radgan dRes
igi politikurad ukve warma-
tebulia.
__ ssaazzooggaaddooeebbaass ggaassaammaarrjjvveebb-
llaadd iivvaanniiSSvviilliiss 55 mmiilliiaarrddiiss
iimmeeddii aaqqvvss.. TTuummccaa,, nnaakklleebbii mmii-
lliiaarrddeebbii aarrcc mmiiss mmTTaavvaarr ooppoo-
nneennttss xxeelliissuufflleebbaass aaqqvvss..
_ finansuri resursi, cxa-
dia, aris faqtori, magram Zne-
lia Tqva, ra rols TamaSobs
igi politikur pocesSi. poli-
tikuri warmatebis formula
bevri faqtorisgan Sedgeba.
pirvel rigSi es aris xalxi.
ramdenad daCagrulni, datero-
rebulnic ar unda viyoT, xeli-
suflebas gaazrebuli aqvs, rom
xalxis azri mniSvnelovania.
amitomac amuSavebs igi ase in-
tensiurad ideologiur manqa-
nas televiziebis saxiT. swo-
red amitomac yovelTvis cdi-
lobs garkveuli tipis piar-
kampaniis Catarebas politikuri
opoziciis mimarT. am Tvalsaz-
risiT xelisufleba mkveTr mi-
nusebSia ivaniSvilTan. imitom,
rom xelisuflebis mxares aris
8-wliani kompromatebis tomebi
_ cemis, Cagvris, zombirebis,
omis wagebis, gaRatakebis da
a.S. sxvaTaSoris, xelisufle-
bis Secdoma isicaa, rom Tuki
dadebiTi ram gaukeTebiaT, esec
mxolod iZulebis formiT. iva-
niSvilis mxares aris martivad
_ qvelmoqmedeba. meore _ Tu
xelisufleba mCagvrelia da
xalxs eubneba _ saxlSi Cumad
ijeqiT da rusul musikas nu
mousmenT, iazrovneT modelire-
buli realobis formiTo, am
dros modis ivaniSvili da ge-
ubneba _ iyavi Tavisufali ada-
miani da iazrovne rogorc gin-
dao. Semdegi momentia _ saer-
TaSoriso mxardaWera, rac ar-
CevnebSi erT-erTi ganmsazRvre-
li faqtoria. Tuki adre gveub-
nebodnen ki, batono iyos nomi-
nalurad opozicia, magram Tuki
vinme realurad Tavs wamoswevs
TavSi Caartyi da Cven gagipra-
vebTo, es faqtori ivaniSvil-
Tan mimarTebaSi moxsnilia da
rogorc minimum ivaniSvils da
xelisuflebas Tanabari pirobe-
bis moedani aqvT micemuli.
__ ssaauubbrriissaass TTqqvveenn aaxxsseenneeTT,,
rroomm bbiiZZiinnaa iivvaanniiSSvviillss iimmuunniittee-
ttii aaqqvvss.. rrooggoorrcc ccnnoobbiilliiaa iiggii
xxeelliissuufflleebbiiss SSeeccvvlliiss mmoommxxrree
mmxxoolloodd aarrCCeevvnneebbiiss ggzziiTTaaaa,, rraacc
eerrTT wweelliiwwaaddSSii uunnddaa ggaaiimmaarr-
TTooss.. rrooggoorr ffiiqqrroobbTT,, rraammddeennaadd
ggaahhyyvveebbaa eess iimmuunniitteettii iivvaanniiSS-
vviillss aarrCCeevvnneebbaammddee??
_ ramdenad gahyveba ivaniS-
vils arCevnebamde imuniteti,
CemTvis amis Tqma Znelia Tumca,
ivaniSvili iqceva rogorc uaR-
resad kanonmorCili adamiani,
igi jerjerobiT xelisuflebas
aranairi agresiis safuZvels ar
aZlevs. ivaniSvilis gansakuT-
rebiT didi pliusia is, rom
igi bvrad ufro gawonaswore-
bulia, vidre nebismieri, saSua-
lo statistikuri qarTveli
politikuri lideri. simSvide,
rac ivaniSvils gaaCnia, yu-
radRebismimqcevia. rodesac mas
pirdapir Seuracxyofas ayeneben
patara, ubedur dReSi Cagdebu-
li, daqiravebuli Jurnaliste-
bi, kerZod, ekiTxebian _ aris
Tu ara igi kremlis bolo ime-
di? _ igi RimiliT pasuxobs da
eubneba _ nu RelavT, yvelafe-
ri kargad iqneba, me vxvdebi
Tqven ra mZime dReSi xarTo.
aseTi tipis adamianis wyobidan
gamoyvana, misi strategiuli
xazis Secvla ar iqneba advili.
miTumetes, im gacveTili meTo-
debiT, rac albaT, ivaniSvilis-
Tvis ukve kargad nacnobia.
__ xxeelliissuufflleebbaa SSeeiiZZlleebbaa
ssuusstt qqmmeeddeebbeebbss aaxxoorrcciieelleebbss,,
TTuummccaa aamm mmTTaavvaarrii ooppoonneennttiiss
uuyyuurraaddRReebboodd mmiittoovveebbaa aarr RRiirrss..
ddRReess aarraavviiss aaqqvvss iilluuzziiaa,, rroomm
xxeelliissuufflleebbaass ssZZiinnaavvss ddaa iiggii
iivvaanniiSSvviilliiss ssaawwiinnaaaaRRmmddeeggoodd mmii-
mmaarrTTuull nnaabbiijjeebbss aarr ggaaddaaddggaammss..
rrooggoorr ffiiqqrroobbTT,, kkiiddeevv rraa kkoonn-
ttrrddaarrttyymmeebbii SSeeiiZZlleebbaa mmiiaayyeennooss
xxeelliissuufflleebbaamm iivvaanniiSSvviillss??
_ ra Tqma unda kmayofileba
imiT, rom ivaniSvilisTvis xe-
lisuflebis mier ganxorciele-
buli Setevebi jerjerobiT
mxolod momgebiani da ara wam-
gebiani xiblia. SesaZloa isic,
rom kidev erTxel Sedges is
garigebebi, da viRacam saakaS-
vils ufleba misces ivaniSvils
ise moeqces, rogorc Cveuleb-
riv qarTvels da ganaxorcie-
lon mis mimarT Cveuli tero-
ri. ar vici sad da rogor dge-
ba es SeTanxmeba, es Zneli saT-
qmelia. magram aq, am frontze,
qarTul realobaSi ivaniSvili
Secdomas ar uSvebs.
Tamar SveliZe
manana berikaSvili,, rreeJJiissoorrii:: usamar-
Tloba imdenad Zneli mosaTmenia, rom SiSsac
ki Zlevs. me piradad aRSfoTebuli var imis
gamo, rom biZina
ivaniSvils Camoar-
Tves moqalaqeoba.
aRSfoTebuli var,
rac moxda misi
bankis winaaRmdeg
da minda e.w. inte-
ligenciis saxe-
liT, rogorc dR-
es gveZaxian, rome-
lic Turme moqr-
Tama ivaniSvilma,
ganvacxado, rom
batonma biZinam er-
is saukeTeso nawili Tavis droze gadaarCina
da yvelafers daarqvan Tavisi saxeli. cota
koreqtulebi iyvnen TavianT gamonaTqvamebSi.
me ar var politologi, var xelovani da
vTvli rom Cemi saTqmeli SemoqmedebaSi unda
vTqva da ara raRac mosazrebebSi, radgan Se-
iZleba raime SemeSalos. Cems qveyanaSi ise gan-
viTarda movlenebi, bevri rame aRar momwonda,
gansakuTrebiT 2008 wlis mere, magram piki am
movlenebisa aris dRevandeli dRe. me pira-
dad saerTod gacruebuli
mqonda imedi poziciazec da opo-
ziciazec. magram gaCnda imedi, ra-
dgan biZina ivaniSvilma ganacxada,
davamTavroT es quCis aqciebi da mi-
tingebi. batoni aris Zalian kargi ada-
miani, kargi biznesmeni, qvelmoqmedi da
xom maqvs ufleba, damacado,
raTa gavigo, rogori po-
litikosi iqneba da gava-
keTo Cemi arCevani. ra
aucilebelia CamoarTva
moqalaqeoba, Tavs daesxa
banks, iaraRi waarTva
dacvas, ratom xdeba es?.
CemTvis yvela adamiani
Zvirfasia, imisda miuxeda-
vad sad dgas. aRar SemiZlia
es dapirispireba da Worebi.
xom SeiZleba ar gavlanZRoT, ar mivayenoT Se-
uracxyofa adamians. wynarad amixseniT da da-
mimtkiceT, ratom aris ruseTis agenti.maSin
mec agenti gamovdivar, ruseTSi vswavlobdi
da Zalian bevri megobaric myavs iq.
biZina ivaniSvilis mosvla politikaSi
aris Zalian principuli, marTali, patiosani
adamianis mosvla, romelic Zalian waadgeba
rogorc politikur speqtrs da sazogadoebas,
aseve xelisuflebasac, romelsac es Tvisebebi
namdvilad aklia.
saintereso iyo gamogekiTxaT adamianebi,
romelTac „qarTuSi“ SehqondaT fuli. es xom
iyo Cveulebrivi sazogadoebis warmomadgenle-
bi da ara is xalxi, visac ivaniSvili xelfass
uxdida.
me ar maqvs safuZveli, ar davujero baton
biZinas, Tu ratom modis politikaSi. qveyanas
rom Svela sWirdeba, vinmes eWvi epareba? ra-
tom unda SevboWoT adamiani, romelsac Zali-
an bevri kargi saqme aqvs gakeTebuli am qvey-
nisTvis, gadadgas es nabiji da davinaxoT, ris
gakeTebas apirebs.
daviT usufaSvili: biZina ivaniSvilma
Tavisi pirveli preskonferenciiT, sazogadoe-
bas Tavi gaacno, rogorc Zalian Cveulebrivma
da saqveyno saqmeebze dafiqrebulma adamianma
da ara _ mesiam,
romelsac yvela
kiTxvaze pasuxi
aqvs da yvela
problemis mog-
varebis pirobas
iZleva.
vfiqrob, mo-
lodini gaamarT-
la, radgan dat-
virTuli iyo
yvela SesaZlo
da araSesaZlo
komponentebiT; aq vnaxeT seriozuli warmod-
gena im TvalsazrisiT, rom Jurnalistebis er-
Ti nawili misuli iyo Tavisi saTqmelis saT-
qmelad da ara _ pasuxebis mosasmenad. es sru-
liad aSkara da TvalSisacemi iyo. ar mgonia,
rom am taqtikam gaamarTla da am gziT moxer-
xda biZina ivaniSvilis portretis gaubralo-
eba. piriqiT, is sakmaod mSvidad Sexvda am yve-
lafers.
ivaniSvilma ramdenjerme mianiSna, rom ori-
entirebulia kompetenturi gundis Seqmnaze,
anu wesierebiT da moraluri kriteriumebiT
SerCeuli gundis imedad akeTebs im gancxade-
bebs, rasac akeTebs da ara mxolod piradi in-
teleqtualuri Tu finansuri resursis kva-
lobaze.
misi myari pozicia xelisuflebis arCevne-
bis gziT Secvlis Sesaxeb aris Zalian mniSv-
nelovani, raTa xelisuflebam ver moaxerxos
cnobili da nacadi strategiiT saqmis warmar-
Tva, TiTqos, qarTul opoziciaSi mxolod re-
voluciaze orientirebuli marginalebi arian.
maia jabua,, mmoommRReerraallii:: momRerlebma,
uamravma ansamblma gavaprotesteT xelisuf-
lebis qmedeba ivaniSvilis winaaRmdeg. zogier-
Ti nawyenic ki darCa, rom ver moaxerxa Tavi-
anTi xelmoweris dafiqsireba. xelovnebis war-
momadgenlebi Tavad iCenen inicia-
tivas, rom CaerTon am protest-
Si.
sazogadoeba gamococxlebulia,
man gadaabija SiSs, radgan yvelafers
aqvs zRvari- SiSsac, moTmenasac
da dumilsac. gaCnda ime-
di da rwmena xalxSi.
am admianma moaxrxa
ndobis Zalian male
mopoveba adamianebSi.
xalxma icis mis mier
gakeTebuli saqvelmoqme-
do saqmeebis Sesaxeb. Tum-
ca didi finansebi yovelT-
vis yvelafers ar wyvets.
finansebi sxvebsac aqvT, mag-
ram survili ar aqvT, amdeni
sikeTe akeTon ase uangarod da CrdilSi dgo-
miT. CemSi yovelTvis aRtacebas iwvevda aseTi
adamianebi. albaT misi gakeTebuli saqmeebi
aris safuZveli im didi ndobisa, rac mas xal-
xma gamoucxada. rac Seexeba bankTan damdgar
rigebs, es aris is solidaroba, rac aqamomde
gvaklda Cven.
sxva aris roca
adamianebi midian
mitingze, magram
rodesac sazoga-
doeba usamarT-
lobas upiris-
pirdeba ase so-
lidarulad, es
aris win gadadg-
muli nabiji sa-
zogadoebis gan-
viTarebaSi.
albaT adamia-
nebi, romlebic dRes Tavs ikaveben TavianTi
poziciis dafiqsirebisgan, im dros elodebi-
an, roca kargad gairkveva situacia da vis
mxares aris warmateba. es dro rom dadgeba,
SeiZleba mere erTmaneTs daaswron sityvis
Tqma.
me ar var is adamiani, romelic Zalian
swrafad iRebs gadawyvetilebas. yvela detals
da wvrilmans vaqcev yuradRebas. aranairi Se-
xeba ar mqonia baton biZinasTan, ar vekuTvni
maT, visac xelfass uxdida. Sesabamisad arana-
iri valdebuleba da davaleba mis mimarT ar
malaparakebs. ubralod, vakvirdebi am admians
da vTvli, rom rogorc momRerlisTvis ar
aris sakmarisi kargi xma da smena da arsebobs
uamravi komponenti, romelic aucilebelia xe-
lovanisTvis, isea politikosic. am adamians ki
gaaCnia uamravi iseTi Tviseba, rac saWiroa,
rom iyos kargi, warmatebuli politikosi.
Tu davacdiT am admaians, is ityvis Tavis saT-
qmels. tel
eNE
WS
tel
eNE
WS
tel
eNE
WS
tel
eNE
WS
tel
eNE
WS
tel
eNE
WS
tel
eNE
WS
tel
eNE
WS
tel
eNE
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tel
eNE
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10 saerTo gazeTi #44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.
amas winaT erTi uxvtira-
Jiani da `neitraluri~ gaze-
Tis TanamSromelma, axalgazr-
da qalbatonma Tqva _ marTa-
lia, me politeqnikuri davam-
Tavre, magram dRes Jurnalis-
ti var. Cemi naSromebiT Jur-
nalistikis fakultetis stu-
dentebs aswavlian, rogorc
qarTuli Jurnalistikis sau-
keTeso nimuSebso...
marTlacda, sad imuSaos im
qalbatonma? teqnikuri dar-
gis specialistebisTvis sa-
qarTveloSi samuSao ar aris,
samagierod, arsebobs media,
romelic yvelas da yvela-
fers itevs...
* * *
im avadsaxsenebeli `varde-
bis revoluciis~ Semdeg xe-
lisuflebaSi axalgazrdebi
movidnen. umaRlesi, sakanonm-
deblo da aRmasrulebeli xe-
lisuflebis berketebi mTli-
anad gadavida axali Taobis
xelSi. mediac gaTavisuflda
komunisturi marwuxebisgan da
laRad gaSala frTebi, revo-
luciuri talRiT mogvrili
siamovnebisgan SvebiT amoisun-
Tqa...
saocrebebs da ucnauro-
bebs ra gamolevs saqarTvelo-
Si, magram saintereso mainc
is aris, ras erCian Jurnalis-
tebi ivaniSvils?
mokled, rac im dRes biz-
nescentrSi moxda, yvelam sa-
kuTari TvaliT naxa.
ra moxda, kolegebo, Tuki
namdvili Jurnalistebi, anu
miukerZoeblebi da damouki-
deblebi xarT, axali politi-
kuri moTamaSis gamoCenam
Tqven ratom dagafrTxoT da
dagaSinaT ase, guli yelSi
rom gqondaT mobjenili da
rom xtunavdiT, Tqvenc es
mTavroba xom ara xarT, safr-
Txe rom danaxeT alternati-
uli Zalis gamoCenisas?
bedma dagvifaros da, zogi
faruli da zogi aSkara mi-
Sistebi xom ar iyaviT im
dRes iq Tavmoyrili? arada,
Jurnalisti rom aravis momx-
re ar unda iyos?
ki, opoziciam dakarga qal-
wuloba miSasTan, magram qar-
Tuli Jurnalistikac xom ar
gminavs, netav, miSas buduar-
Si?
im darbazSi im dRes, sxva-
Ta Soris, TiTo-orola medi-
ajgufi iyo, romelic neitra-
lurad, damkvirveblis Tva-
liT uyurebda ivaniSvils.
`mtrebi~ meti iyvnen. ra aris
es? lustracia?
Tu Jurnalistebi iq imi-
tom iyvnen, rom xalxisTvis
miewodebinaT informacia,
xalxma veraferi gaigo ivaniS-
vilisgan, radgan xelCarTul
Cxubs, kinklaobas da JiJil-
xivils Tavi ver daaRwies da
`gamocda~, romelic TiTqos
ivaniSvilisTvis unda Caeta-
rebinaT, Jurnalistebma ver
Caabares...
araa ivaniSvilSi saqme, da-
vaneboT Tavi konkretul pi-
rebs _ 1 noembers ivaniSvils
rom etitinebodiT, gamodiT
erTi, ramdeni gaubedavT saa-
kaSvils erT Tamam SekiTxvas
mainc...
* * *
erTi 88 wlis loginad Ca-
vardnili kaci gvirekavs re-
daqciaSi yoveldRe. batoni
vaJa, romelic veraze, yofili
belinskis quCaze cxovrobs,
yovel darekvaze wuxs, unda
avdge da samarTali gavark-
vioo. geRimebaT, Tqven, baton
vaJaze, ara? im adamians guli
miuwevs simarTlis gasarkve-
vad da visac SeuZlia amis ga-
keTeba, isini miSas dakrulze
cekvaven.
zogierTi Jurnalisti
`vardebis revoluciis~ dide-
bulad dagvirgvinebis Semdeg
`redisonSi~ gamarTuli gran-
diozuli `samaRariCo~ suf-
ridan `revoluciaSi~ monawi-
leobisTvis cincxali `nive-
biT~ dasaCuqrebuli dabrune-
bula saxlSi. aba, amis mere
rogor SeiZleba miSas
`mters~ yelSi ar ece gamosa-
Radravad. miT umetes es mte-
ri da mowinaaRmdege saqarTve-
los `damaqcevari~, `qvewarma-
vali~ biZina ivaniSvili Tua?!
xalxo, is mainc ar gagigo-
niaT, `gvelsa xvreliT amoiy-
vans ena tkbilad moubario~?
Cemi istoriis maswavlebe-
li, araCveulebrivad enamosw-
rebuli, cxonebuli karlo
mamalaZe am andazas aseTi
interpretaciiT ambobda: `gv-
elsa xvreliT amoiyvans joxi
SeCxikinebulio~. ra joxiT
da mikrofoniT misdevT am
adamians, Tu aseTi vaJkacebi
iyaviT, `imedSi~ rom scemes,
begves da dawamles Jurnalis-
tebi Tqveni Sefebis Tqvenna-
irma xelqveiTebma, maSin ra-
tom ar amoiReT xma da ase
erTbaSad ratom ar SeutieT
Tqveni kolegebisa da saer-
Tod, marTali sityvis damTr-
gunvelebs.
simarTle isaa, rom krizi-
si qarTul JurnalistikaSi,
romelze saubaric, ratomRac
momakvdinebel codvad iTvle-
ba, 2003 wlidan ar dawyebu-
la. ra memkvidreobac miiRo
qarTulma mediam, imas verafe-
ri miumata, piriqiT, ufro ga-
acamtvera da miwasTan gaaswo-
ra Jurnalistis saxeli.
I arxis TanamSromelma
axalgazrda Jurnalistma rom
erT momitinges sastikad sce-
ma, xelisuflebam daawinaura
da I arxidan SedarebiT usaf-
rTxo da Tbil adgilas gada-
iyvana.
mTavari kanoni, rasac Jur-
nalistma arasdros unda uRa-
latos _ ar unda gaxdes vin-
mes mexotbe, arc aSkara da
arc faruli mxardamWeri.
amiT is informaciis obieqtu-
robas did zians ayenebs.
simarTle unda vTqva: 1 no-
embers biZina ivaniSvilma moa-
xerxa srulad warmoeCina qar-
Tuli Jurnalistikis gaRata-
kebuli da ubadruki saxe...
Jurnalistika, anu meoTxe
xelisufleba dRes Zalad ga-
ficxebul-gawiwmatebuli nino
gomarTelia, romelsac dava-
leba aqvs Sesasrulebeli,
qarTuli Jurnalistika dRes
aris lika beraia, romelic
mikrofons malavs qvedatanis
qveS, raTa ar waarTvan da me-
re gauazrebeli, meqanikuri
SekiTxvebi dasvas...
qarTuli Jurnalistika
aris gamomcemloba `samSoblo-
dan~ mujlugunebiT gamoyrili
JurnalistTa mTeli wyeba,
romlebic ignorirebulni da
ugulebelyofilni arian...
me var Jurnalisti...
magram me ar var `meoTxe~...
vxedav da vwer, rom dang-
reulia qveyana, ispoba ena,
sarwmunoeba, xelidan gvecle-
ba samSoblo. da me, rogorc
Jurnalisti, var meoTxe xe-
lisufleba?..
* * *
axlaxan wavikiTxe Jurna-
li `tabula~, romelic inte-
ligents warsulis gadmonaS-
Tad miiCnevs da TiTqmis an-
tikvarad Tvlis. didi eWvi
maqvs, qarTuli mediis umete-
si nawilic ase fiqrobs.
inteligenti aris, sxvaTa
Soris, TviTon Jurnalisti,
magram, rogorc ivaniSvilis
biznes-centrSi kidev erTxel
damtkicda, samwuxarod, qarT-
velma Jurnalistebma jer ar
ician, rom ar arian arc yaCa-
Rebi, arc CamSvebebi, arc Sss-
s pagoniani jaSuSebi, aramed
arian, pirvel rigSi, inteli-
gentebi...
Tumca maT jer ar ician
amis Sesaxeb...
arc uTxraT, daumaleT,
jerjerobiT, Torem, visac
sindisi kidev SerCa, Zalian
Sercxveba...
sindisze gamaxsenda, saqar-
TveloSi, netavi, ramdeni
Jurnalisti ityvis, rom mis
profesiaSi es gasacodavebu-
li sindisi saWiro aris?
albaT, Zalian cota da
vinc ityvis, isic ar iqneba
agulwrfeli...
* * *
rogorc SevityveT, male
biZina ivaniSvili samoqalaqo
moZraobas Seqmnis, arCevnebam-
de ki jer kidev droa, nac-
moZraobas odnav patara dis-
komforti ki Seeqmna ivaniSvi-
lis gamocxadebiT, magram, di-
dad ar Sewuxebulan, rogorc
etyoba, nacebi kidev karga
xans ibogineben... saxelisuf-
lebo kastad Camoyalibebul
Jurnalistebsac Tavisufle-
bis sio kidev didxans ar da-
ufrTxobs simSvides da dema-
gogiis sazRvaric kvlav
usazRvro darCeba maTTvis. ma-
Ti zRapari aq ar mTavrdeba,
rogorc ivaniSvilis prescen-
tris xelmZRvanelis irakli
tripolskis cxonebuli mama
iakob tripolski amTavrebda
xolme I arxze saRamos zRap-
ris moyolas: `mSvid Zils
gisurvebT, Cemo patara gogo-
cuneboo~!...
simSvides gisurvebT, je-
rjerobiT...
iranda kalandaZe
`meoTxe~, anu gvelsaxvreliT amoiyvans
joxi SeCxikinebuli...
ixileT `saerTo gazeTi~
internetSi
www.saertogazeti.netSemogvierTdiT FACEBOOK-zze
11saerTo gazeTi#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.
paarizi. baank `̀rosiiski kreditis~
daamaaaarsebeli daa mflobeli boris
ivaaniSvili erT-eerTi yvelaaze idumaa-
lebiT moculi mewaarmeaa ruseTSi. igi
praaqtikulaad aar monaawileobdaa saajaa-
ro RonisZiebebSi, aaraasodes miuciaa
interviu.
raas saaqmiaanobdaa ivaaniSvili gaareSe
Tvaals miRmaa?
qonebaas aagrovebdaa.
aaxlaaxaan Jurnaalmaa `̀forbsmaa~ misi
qonebaa 2,6 miliaard dolaaraad Seaafaa-
saa; Tumcaa Taavaad ivaaniSvilis sityve-
biT Tu vimsjelebT, `̀roskreditis~
mepaatrone 5 miliaardze meti Rirs.
SaarSaan mis bizness gaardaamtexi xaanaa
daaudgaa. msxvili saamrewvelo aaqtive-
bis _ stoilenskisaa daa mixaailovskis
saamTo-ggaamaamdidrebeli kombinaatebis
gaayidviT 2 miliaarze meti iSovaa. es
sruliaad moulodneli aaRmoCndaa aaraa
maarto baazris monaawileebisTvis, aaraa-
med maaTTvisaac, vinc ivaaniSvils ic-
nobdaa. raatom moiqcaa aase, rogor aapi-
rebs miRebuli Taanxis gaankaargvaas _
aamis Sesaaxeb biZinaa ivaaniSvilmaa `̀ve-
domostis~ Taavisi cxovrebis maanZil-
ze micemul pirvel interviuSi piraa-
daad uaambo.
_ Tqven arasodes migiciaT inter-
viu da Tqveni samewarmeo sawqmiano-
bis dasawyisidanve CrdilSi yofnas
amjobinebdiT. ras ukavSirdeba aseTi
gasaidumloeba?
_ me marTlac ar var sajaro
adamiani, rac mxolod da mxolod
Cems xasiaTs ukavSirdeba. ar miyvars
JurnalistebTan Sexvedra, TavSey-
ris adgilebSi yofna. iq niRbis
morgebaa saWiro, me ki ver vitan
formalobebs. ar msurs vakeTo ise-
Ti ram, rac Cems Tavisuflebas zRu-
davs. zogadad, ar miyvars yuradRe-
bis centrSi yofna, arc dResaswau-
lebi, sakuTar dabadebis dResac ki
arasdros vixdi.
_ riTi SeiZleba avxsnaT, rom
`rosiiski krediti~ da `metaloin-
vesti~ arc ki adasturebdnen, rom es
struqturebi Tqven gekuTvniT?
_ arasodes damirRvevia kanoni da
dasamalic araferi maqvs. ubralod,
`perestroikis~ dasawyisSive, Cven
yvelani, biznesmenebi, samwuxarod,
daZabulad vcxovrobdiT imis gamo,
rom SesaZloa, Cvens bizness rame da-
muqreboda. Tuki sakuTari personiTa
da qonebiT yuradRebas ar miipyrob-
di, biznesis marTvac ufro mSvidad
SeiZleboda.
_ 90-iiani wlebis dasawyisSi ru-
seTSi marTlac daZabuli mdgomareo-
ba iyo, magram sazRvargareT yvela
biznesmeni rodi miemgzavreboda
TqvensaviT. rodis waxvediT qveynidan
da ratom?
_ ruseTidan pirvelad 1993
wels, saqarTveloSi Cemi Zmis gata-
cebis Semdeg wavedi. misTvis gamosas-
yids iTxovdnen. erTi Tve hyavdaT,
magram gamosasyidi ar gadamixdia,
radganac analogiur safrTxeSi Ca-
vagdebdi Cems mSoblebs, debs. Semd-
gomSi maTTvis xeli aravis uxlia.
CemTan ki saqarTvelodan sxvadasxva
saxelmwifo moxele Camodioda, rom-
lebic Cemi Zmis moZebnaSi daxmarebas
cdilobdnen, TanamSromlobas mTava-
zobdnen. ar msurda maTi SemoSveba
Cems biznesSi da maTTan urTierTobis
Tavidan asacileblad gadavwyvite,
formalurad banks CamovSorebodi:
ganvacxade, rom bankis prezidentis
Tanamdebobas vtovebdi, 1994 wels ki
6 TviT ojaxTan erTad axlobelTan
amerikis SeerTebul StatebSi gavem-
gzavre. saqarTvelSi viTareba ar iyo
mSvidi, TiTqos sazRvargareT ufro
SeiZleboda wynarad cxovreba; vfiq-
robdiT, Svilebis gulisTvis, maTi
momavlisTvis egeb Rirdes aqedan gam-
gzavreba. virCevdiT qveyanas, rome-
lic yvelaze metad mogvewoneboda.
safrangeTi SevarCieT, parizis siax-
loves saxli viyideT. Tumca iq mud-
mivad ar vcxovrobdiT, biznesis ga-
mo, gansakuTrebiT ki defoltis Sem-
deg, ZiriTadad moskovSi gviwevda
yofna.
_ miuxedavad amisa, safrangeTis
moqalaqeoba mainc miiReT?
_ colma da Svilebma miiRes, me _
ara, radgan es did dros wamarTmev-
da: gasaubreba da aTasi sxva ram iyo
saWiro.
_ ar nanobT, rom adre intervius
ar iZleodiT? nuTu gulgrilad
uyurebdiT imas, rasac Tqvenze werd-
nen?
_ rasakvirvelia, ara. ruseTis
masmediisgan gansxvavebiT, qarTvel
JurnalistTa mudmivi yuradRebis
centrSi viyavi. zogierTi maTgani da-
sabeWdad iyenebda masalas interneti-
dan, sadac karga xnis ganmavlobaSi
ganTavsebuli iyo TiTqosda jguf
`mostis~ usafrTxoebis samsaxuris
monacemebze dayrdnobiT Sedgenili
Cemi dosie. odesRac seriozul kon-
kurencias vuwevdiT `most-banks~,
amitomac ar iyo gasakviri, rom es
dosie `rosiiski kreditsa~ da pira-
dad Cemze aTasgvar sisuleles Sei-
cavda, Tanac es yvelaferi krimina-
luri Jargonis gamoyenebiT iwerebo-
da. dosie imdenad araseriozuli iyo,
rom igi ruseTis arc erT gazeTs ar
gamouyenebia. SevardnaZis dros qarT-
veli Jurnalistebi ganurCevlad
lanRavdnen yvelas da maT Soris mec,
amitomac maT statiebs yuradRebas
ar vaqcevdi. axali xelisuflebis
mosvlidan erT weliwadSi Cem Sesa-
xeb werilebis gamoqveyneba ganaxlda
da swored maSin pirvelad movaxdine
maTze reagireba: SarSan, noemberSi,
Cems samsaxurebs davavale gaegoT,
ras warmoadgendnen im internet-sai-
tis mflobelebi, sadac es dosie iyo
`ar megona, rom miliarderi gavxdebodi~
redaqciisagan: biZina ivaniSvilis in-
terviu, romelsac `saerTo gazeTis~ dRevan-
del nomerSi gTavazobT, gazeT `vedomostSi~
2005 wlis 7 aprils gamoqveynda da imTaviT-
ve sazogadoebis didi interesi gamoiwvia.
miuxedavad imisa, rom didi xnis ganmav-
lobaSi es iyo biZina ivaniSvilis erTaderTi
interviu, misi sruli teqsti qarTul enaze
ar Targmnila da ar gamoqveynebula (daibeWda
mxolod mcire fragenti).
marTalia, intervius gamoqveynebidan eqvs-
ma welma gaiara da am xnis ganmavlobaSi, cxa-
dia, bevri ram Seicvala, magram, vfiqrobT es
interviu mainc uaRresad mniSvnelovani doku-
mentia, Tundac imis dasturad, rom biZina iva-
niSvili eqvsi wlis winaTac, anu maSin, rode-
sac politikaSi mosvlas arc apirebda, imave
Rirebulebebsa da faseulobebs emsaxureboda,
romelTa damkvidrebas dRes, rogorc politi-
kosi, qarTul sinamdvileSi cdilobs.
aqve gTavazobT biZina ivaniSvilis mcire
komentars am interviusTan dakavSirebiT:
`bednieri var, rom sufTa warsuli maqvs
da garwmunebT, xelisuflebis ideologebs
TavianTi mcdelobani sikeTes ver moutans.
mudmivad iseT gvarebs atrialeben, romelic
cnobili araa saqarTvelos mosaxleobisTvis.
mudmivad cdiloben, xalxs eWvi gauCinon Cem-
ze.
erTaderT interviuSi, romelic gazeT
`vedomosts~ miveci, yvela es gvaria dasaxele-
buli da pasuxic iqvea gacemuli. es ambavi kar-
ga xania warsuls Cahbarda. Jurnalistebma ma-
Sin verc erTi Savi xazi ver mipoves. erTi Tve
ar beWdavdnen Cems intervius. ver warmoedgi-
naT, rom ruseTSi SeiZleboda aseTi kaci yo-
filiyo, Tanac qarTuli gvariT. rogorc aq ar
vCndebodi, ufro metad ar vCandi ruseTSi.
didxans elodnen Cem gamoCenas, amis Semdgom
yvela sainformacio saSualebam gaaSuqa es in-
terviu, grami eWvic ki aravis Seutania Cems
naTqvamSi, radgan interviuSi imdenad gulwr-
felad maqvs pasuxebi gacemuli, eWvis natama-
lic ki ar rCeboda.~
darwmunebuli varT, es interviu biZina
ivaniSvilis oponentebs erTxel da samudamod
daukargavs usafuZvlo braldebebis da samar-
cxvino Woraobis xasiaTs.
12 gv.
12 saerTo gazeTi #44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.
ganTavsebuli. pirvelwyaros mflobe-
lebma _ gamoZiebis federalurma sa-
agentom _ amoiRo dosie da bodiSic
moixada.
_ anu, rac iq weria, simarTle ar
aris?
_ im dosies mTavari `sensacia~ is
aris, TiTqos me oTar kvantriSvil-
Tan viyavi dakavSirebuli, yalbi avi-
zoebiT da msgavsi erToblivi saqmia-
nobiT viyaviT dakavebuli. es sruli
bodvaa. 90-iani wlebis dasawyisSi,
roca bankebis umravlesoba, maT So-
ris saxelmwifo bankebic, waleka
yalbma avizoebma (romelTa meSveobi-
Tac saxelmwifo biujetidan aTobiT
miliardi dolari moipares), didi
Zalisxmevis fasad movaxerxe, rom
`rosiiski krediti~ gamyalbebelTa
saqmianobas win aRdgomoda. Cemi banki
aRmoCnda erTaderTi, romelsac arc
erTi avizo ar gautarebia.
kvantriSvilis, benduqiZis, maRra-
Zis, seliaSvilis gundTan Cemi dakav-
Sireba aseTive bodvaa. arc erT maT-
gans ar vicnobdi. qarTvel Jurna-
listebs, romlebsac dRemde mosvene-
bas ar aZlevT kvantriSvilTan Cemi
urTierTobis eWvi, SeeZloT Caetare-
binaT arc ise rTuli Jurnalisturi
gamoZieba, daewyoT Tundac kvantriS-
vilis cnobili axloblebisgan. arc
saqarTveloSi, arc ruseTSi proble-
mas ar warmoadgens kvantriSvilis
naTesavebis, megobrebis, `rosiiski
kreditis~ TanamSromelTa moZebna.
dae, ipovon Tundac erTi mowme an
mtkicebuleba, rom piradad me an Cems
struqturebs kvantriSvilTan ioti-
sodena Sexeba mainc gvqonia! arian
iseTi qarTveli Jurnalistebi, rom-
lebic Cemze saubrisas iyeneben aseT
gamoTqmas _ `vinme ivaniSvili~, sxve-
bi weren, rom me `saorientaciod~
Tbilisis saxelmwifo universiteti
davamTavre, zogierTi Cemi gvaris
xsenebisas sxvis fotoebs beWdavs.
JurnalistTa sxva kategoria im biz-
nes-centrs, romelsac TbilisSi va-
Seneb, saroskipos uwodeben. ra aer-
TianebT maT? yvelani TiTqos uaRre-
sad aRSfoTebuli arian, rom Cemze
informaciis mopoveba uWirT. es xom
mzakvrobaa. qarTvelze, romelic da-
ibada saqarTveloSi, romelsac mSob-
lebi, uamravi naTesavi da megobari
hyavs, absoluturad yvelafris gage-
ba SeiZleba, Tanac uswrafesad. ara-
sodes mimimarTavs sasamarTlosTvis
Cemi Rirsebisa da pativis dasacavad,
radgan arasodes damikargavs arc er-
Ti, yovelTvis sindisis karnaxiT
vcxovrobdi.
`armirebuli Slangebis
gamoSveba mindoda~
_ romeli qveynis moqlaqe xarT?
_ ruseTisa da saqarTvelosi.
_ axla sad cxovrobT?
_ momenatra saqarTvelo da erTi
wlis win ojaxTan erTad sacxovreb-
lad gadavedi im sofelSi, sadac bav-
Svoba gavatare. ojaxi CemTvis upir-
velesia. mamaCemi axlaxan gardaicva-
la, deda xanSiSesulia, mominda mis
gverdiT yofna. axali sacxovrebeli
im saxlis gverdiT avaSene, sadac
mSoblebTan erTad vcxovrobdi. vfiq-
rob, iq karga xniT davsaxldi.
_ gviambeT, ras saqmianobdiT, vid-
re `roskredits~ daafuZnebdiT?
_ me qalaq WiaTuris axlos, so-
fel WorvilaSi davibade. mamaCemi me-
Saxted muSaobda `WiaTurmarganec-
Si~, romelic, sxvaTaA Soris, axla-
xan rusulma `evrazholdingma~ iyi-
da. skolis damTavrebis Semdeg Tbi-
lisSi wavedi _ Tbilisis saxelmwi-
fo universitetSi sainJinro-ekono-
mikur fakultetze vswavlobdi, imav-
droulad kamos saxelobis samsxme-
lo-meqanikur qarxanaSi vmuSaobdi
damlageblad, damxmare muSad, Semd-
gomSi ki _ mxexavad. universiteti
warmatebiT davamTavre da samuSaod
imave qarxanaSi davrCi, oRond _ jer
ufros inJinrad, Semdeg ki Sromis
mecnieruli organizaciis laborato-
riis ufrosad. 1982 wels moskovSi
gavemgzavre Sromis samecniero-kvle-
viTi institutis aspiraturaSi sas-
wavleblad, ramdenime wlis Semdeg
davicavi disertacia specialobiT
`Sromis mecnieruli organizacia da
ekonomika~. TbilisSi samecniero-
kvleviTi institutis adgilobriv
ganyofilebaSi davbrundi. da maleve
Cemi pirveli biznesis organizeba da-
viwye.
_ rogor gagiCndaT biznesis
idea?
_ ras warmoadgenda 80-iani wle-
bis bolos ufrosi mecnier-muSaki?
arc saintereso samuSao iyo da arc
perspeqtivas uCanda piri. bina ar
mqonda, arc ojaxi, samsxmelo-meqani-
kuri qarxnis saerTo sacxovrebelSi
vcxovrobdi. rasakvirvelia, maSin az-
radac ar momsvlia, rom banks dava-
arsebdi da miliarderi gavxdebodi.
ubralod, mqonda survili, fuli me-
Sova. gadavwyvite, gamomeSva im dro-
isTvis deficituri armirebuli
Slangebi. davaregistrire koopera-
tivi, kamos saxelobis qarxanaSi Se-
noba ijariT aviRe da warmoebisTvis
mzadebas Sevudeqi. saRamoobiT Tavad
vCarxavdi saWiro detalebs, magram
Slangebis gamoSvebamde saqme ar mi-
sula _ kompiuterebiT vaWrobas mov-
kide xeli.
_ ratom maincdamainc kompiutere-
bi?
_ vaanalizebdi, savaWro sferoSi
ra iqneboda warmatebis momtani da
davaskveni _ momavali kompiuterebs
ekuTvnoda. maTze moTxovnileba didi
iyo, magram Sovna Wirda.
davukavSirdi sazRvargareT wa-
sul nacnob Tbilisel ebraelebs,
romlebsac gauxardaT biznesis wa-
mowyeba. kompiuterebis gamogzavna
daiwyes, pirvelma saqarTvelos mec-
nierebaTa akademiam iyida; magram sa-
qarTvelos prokuraturas ar moewo-
na Cemi aqtiuroba, is, rom pirveli-
ve garigebiT Cemi kooperativis anga-
riSze erT milion rublze meti Ca-
iricxa da prokuraturam Cems anga-
riSebs yadaRa daado. mivxvdi, aq ga-
saqans ar momcemdnen da moskovSi ga-
dabargeba gadavwyvite.
jer kidev aspiranturaSi swavli-
sas gavicani vitali malkini, rome-
lic maSin moskovis rkinigzis insti-
tutis aspiranti iyo. erT students
me maTematikaSi vuwevdi repetito-
robas, vitali _ fizikaSi. roca
moskovSi davbrundi, malkini ukve
CarTuli iyo biznesSi _ raRacis ga-
dayidviT iyo dakavebuli, kafes gax-
snas cdilobda, magram me organize-
buli biznesi _ kompiuterebiT vaW-
roba SevTavaze.
malkins rkinigzis institutidan
hyavda megobrebi _ docenti sergei
mosini da aleqsandr briancevi. isini
naro-fominskSi saTburebs aSenebdnen,
maT kooperativi `agroprogresi~
hqondaT. axali kooperativis dare-
gistrirebaze dro rom ar daxarju-
liyo, `agroprogresis~ meSveobiT
vvaWrobdiT. yvelas Tanabari wili
gvqonda. es iyo 1988 weli. ulifto
SenobaSi, mexuTe sarTulze, samoTa-
xian binaSi erTi oTaxi viqiraveT _
es iyo Cveni ofisic da sawyobic.
sruli svliT miiwevda biznesi win,
romelic im dros sxvanairad ewyobo-
da: bevri ram ndobas efuZneboda, did
Tanxas winaswar vricxavdiT. Semd-
gomSi vaWroba daviwyeT agreTve qse-
roqsebiT, magnitofonebiTa da tele-
fonebiT.
imdroindel moskovSi uamravi
ucxoeli cxovrobda, romlebic
aTasnair saqonels gvTavazobdnen, pi-
radad CemTan jgrod, jguf-jgufad
modiodnen, magram vxedavdi, rom yve-
lani TaRliTebi iyvnen. amitomac
Cvenve wavediT sazRvargareT partni-
orebis mosaZebnad. SevityveT, rom pa-
rizSi mimdinareobda maRalteqnolo-
giuri produqciis gamofena. swored
iq davekontaqteT honkongis erT-erT
firmas da maTTan gavemgzavreT _
garwmunebT, Cven viyaviT pirveli
biznesmenebi ruseTidan, romlebic
honkongSi Cavidnen. maTTan gavafor-
meT Cveni pirveli didi kontraqti.
teqnikas mTlianad CineTSi amzadebd-
nen, gavriskeT da CineTSi Rilakebia-
ni telefonebisa da kasetiani magni-
tofonebis fabrika SeviZineT. 1990
wels Cveni kompania erT-erTi udide-
si iyo eleqtronuli teqnikiT vaW-
robis dargSi, Tumca sxvebic mixvd-
nen, rom es momgebiani biznesi iyo da
amitomac gadavwyviteT, sxva saqme wa-
mogvewyo. swored im periodSi gaCn-
da pirveli kerZo bankebi, 1990 wels
`rosiiski krediti~ davaregistri-
reT.
_ eleqtronuli teqnikiT vaWro-
bis garda, sxva biznesic gqondaT?
bankis Seqmnisas ra kapitali daagro-
veT?
_ sxva biznesi ar gvqonia. `rosi-
iski kreditis~ gaxsnisas 100-120
aTasi dolari gvqonda. es didi fu-
li iyo, amiT ramdenime bankis gaxsna
SeiZleboda. briancevi am saqmeSi ar
gamogvyva, gviTxra, uamisodac mdida-
ri varo da saTburebis mSenebloba
ganagrZo. me, malkinma da mosinma wi-
li Tanabrad gavinawileT. SemdgomSi
mosinis wili gamovisyide da amgva-
rad, me bankis 67 procenti mekuTv-
noda, malkins _ 33 procenti.
_ ra wili aqvs axla malkins ban-
ksa da samrewvelo sawarmoebSi?
_ man Tavisi wili orive bankSi
SeinarCuna, zogierT samrewvelo
obieqtSi misi wili ki axlaxan gamo-
visyide.
`Cven, ubralod, imas
vakeTebdiT, rasac
sxvebi ar akeTebdnen~
_ gviambeT, rogor daiwyeT saban-
ko biznesi, rogor moaxerxa `rosi-
iski kreditma~, liderebSi moxvedri-
liyo?
_ bankis pirveli ofisi sabavSvo
baRis SenobaSi ganvaTavseT da dRe-
RameSi 24-ive saaTi vmuSaobdiT. vid-
re bankSi asamde TanamSromeli iyo,
nebismier, Tundac umniSvnelo ga-
dawyvetilebas piradad me viRebdi.
maSin krediti yovelgvari uzrun-
velyofis gareSe gaicemoda, SesaZle-
beli iyo, igi ar daebrunebinaT, ami-
tomac TviTon unda gadamewyvita,
visTvis migveca krediti da visTvis
_ ara. Cven, ubralod, imas vakeTeb-
11 gv.
ixileT `saerTo gazeTi~
internetSi
www.saertogazeti.netSemogvierTdiT FACEBOOK-zzee
13saerTo gazeTi#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.
diT, rasac sxvebi ar akeTebdnen. naR-
di fulis (valutis) gayidvis mocu-
lobis TvalsazrisiT pirvelebi viya-
viT: Cven, magaliTad, sagangebod vuk-
veTavdiT dolaris axal kupiurebs,
vxsnidiT valutis sacalo gayidvis
sabiTumo centrebs.
saerTodac, maSin bevr rames in-
tuicia wyvetda. maSinve mivxvdi, rom
fsoni filialebis qselze unda dag-
vedo. saamisod unda mogvegvarebina
ori sakvanZo problema _ mogveZebna
Senoba da kadrebi. erTxel, mTeli
Ramis ganmavlobaSi vfiqrobdi amis
Sesaxeb, diliT ki mzad mqonda ga-
dawyvetileba. Cven mivdiodiT sawar-
moebis, institutebis direqtorebTan
da vTanxmdebodiT _ isini gamogvi-
yofdnen Senobas, Cven ki maT organi-
zaciebs bankis mewileobas vTavazob-
diT (2-2 procents vaZlevdiT), Sem-
dgomSi isini Cveni klientebi xde-
bodnen. me davaarse pirveli sabanko
koleji ruseTSi, romelic Cveni ban-
kis momaval TanamSromlebs amzadeb-
da. pirvel etapze leqciebsac Tavad
vkiTxulobdi. Tumca yvelaze mTava-
ri, riTac vamayob, is aris, rom ban-
kSi SevqmeniT unikaluri korporaci-
uli suliskveTeba, maSindel TanamS-
romelTa umravlesoba dResac bankSi
muSaobs.
_ Tqven periodulad miemgzavre-
bodiT qveynidan, bolo weliwad-nnaxe-
vari ki mudmivad cxovrobT saqarT-
veloSi. rogor marTavT bizness, ra
sakiTxebs wyvetT piradad Tqven?
_ `rosiiski kreditis~ Seqmnis
dRidan moyolebuli dRevandlamde,
me erTdroulad misi aqcioneric var
da top-menejeric, ruseTSi sxvanai-
rad ar SeiZleba. banki davaarse Tu
ara, pirveli 4 weliwadi piradad va-
kontrolebdi yvelafers, rac iq
xdeboda. roca biznesi gafarTovda,
marTvis kolegialuri stili davner-
ge. axla, umeteswilad, strategiuli
sakiTxebis mogvarebaze var koncent-
rirebuli, magram vici yvelaferi, Tu
ra xdeba biznesis yvela mimarTule-
biT. axlac ki, sadac unda vimyofebo-
de, yoveldRiurad sul cota 4 sa-
aTs samuSao sakiTxebis mogvarebas
vandomeb.
_ ra funqciebi hqonda malkins?
_ igi warmomadgenlobiT funqci-
ebs asrulebda: warmoadgenda banks
saxelmwifo struqturebSi, Cem ma-
givrad dadioda formalur Sexved-
rebze, araformalur RonisZiebebze.
igi arasodes wyvetda, forsirebu-
lad biznesis ra mimarTuleba unda
ganviTarebuliyo, raze gveTqva uari,
ra gveyida, ra gagveyida, rogor Seg-
verCia kadrebi da ranairad gvemarTa
igi. es Cemi gasakeTebeli iyo, vita-
lim TviTonac icoda, rom am sa-
kiTxebSi kompetenturi ar iyo.
orivem erTad daviwyeT biznesi,
maSin aravin icoda, ra SeeZlo mas.
vitali Cemi megobaria, mas arasodes
uRalatia CemTvis, amitomac igi
kvlavac Cemi partnioria, me ki moxa-
ruli var, rom megobari mdidar ka-
cad vaqcie.
_ vasili anisimovs, romelsac
`rosiiski kreditSi~ vice-ppreziden-
tis Tanamdeboba ekava, bankSi wili
hqonda?
_ anisimovis kuTvnili qarxnebi
msxvili klientebi iyvnen bankisa,
magram igi misi mesakuTre arasodes
yofila. me partniorebi myavda sam-
rewvelo sawarmoebSi, bankSi ki, Tu
ar CavTvliT maT, vinc Senobis sanac-
vlod wili miiRo, Tanamflobeli
mxolod malkini gaxldaT. TiToeul
msvil klients mewileoba surda,
magram yvelas uariT vistumrebdi. sa-
erTod, vcdilob, partniorobas Tavi
avarido. CemTvis partniori Zalzed
seriozuli sakiTxia, Tanac arsebobs
riski, rom partniori mogatyuebs.
_ roca Tqven bizness iwyebdiT,
nebismieri struqtura, romelic
fuls Soulobda, banditebis yu-
radRebas ipyrobda. Tqven Tu gadawy-
domixarT msgavs problemebs?
_ Cven metismetad adre da-
viwyeT kompiuterebis biznesi, re-
ketirebi im dros Tvlemdnen da is
momenti ubralod gamorCaT. bankSi
ki marTlac gvqonda msgavsi prob-
lemebi. erTi ram SesaniSnavad vi-
ci: sakmarisia, erTxel gaurigde
maT (banditebs) da samudamod dau-
kavSirdebi. gavuZeli da sxvaTa
Soris, Cemi mTavari damsaxurebaa,
rom Cems biznesSi ar SemomiSvia
aravin, vinc banditad miaCniaT.
mogvianebiT vTanamSromlobdi sa-
marTaldamcav struqturebTan.
1993 wels, ruseTis organizebul
danaSaulTan brZolis sammarTve-
los (ÐÓÁÎÏ) xelmZRvanelis
vladimir ruSailos TanadgomiT
(igi Cemi Zmis povnaSi damexmara),
am sammarTveloSi Cemi iniciativiT
Seiqmna struqtura, romelsac Cemi
banki, mogvianebiT ki bevri sxva
komerciuli struqturac afinan-
sebda. sakmarisi iyo dagvereka, rom
misi TanamSromlebi umal adgilze
mosuliyvnen. es struqtura didi
xnis ganmavlobaSi efeqtianad mu-
Saobda. 1997 wels kreditebis da-
ubruneblobis problemas gadavawy-
diT; imis nacvlad, rom dagvxmare-
bodnen, am sammarTvelos TanamSrom-
lebi Cveni mevaleebisgan qrTams iReb-
dnen. amis gamo am struqturis maSin-
del xelmZRvanels aleqsandr kaCu-
ras vuTxari, rom TanamSromlobas
vwyvetdi.
_ magram im dros xom SeuZlebe-
li iyo biznesis warmarTva, Tuki sa-
xelmwifo moxeleebsa da imave bandi-
tebs Soris `kriSa~ ar geqnebodaT?
_ SesaZlebeli ki iyo, magram
imavdroulad _ rTulic. Cveni banki
arasodes moiazreboda egreT wode-
bul `blatian~ bankebs Soris. gada-
ricxvebis raodenobiT `rosiiski
krediti~ ruseTis Semnaxvel banksac
ki aWarbebda. es miuTiTebs imaze, rom
Cveni ZiriTadi sayrdeni wvrili da
saSualo klientura iyo. saxelmwifo
moxeleTaAmfarvelobiTac arasdros
misargeblia.
_ erTma saxelmwifo moxelem ma-
inc moutana sargebeli Tqvens banks.
roca evgeni biCkovi `roskomdrag-
mets~ (Zvirfasi liTonebisa da qve-
bis ruseTis komiteti _ mTargmn.)
xelmZRvanelobda, `roskreditma~ mo-
axerxa, oqros bazarze msxvili moTa-
maSe gamxdariyo, mogvianebiT ki biC-
kovi bankis vice-pprezidentad dainiS-
na.
_ bankTan biCkovis kavSirs Sesaba-
misi saxelmwifo uwyeba amowmebda da
ver moZebna veranairi darRveva, rac
mas, rogorc Cinovniks, SeeZlo mosv-
loda. biCkovi bankisTvis sasargeblo
mxolod imiT aRmoCnda, rom oriode
klienti SesZina mas.
_ `rosiiski krediti~ da `meta-
loinvesti~ bevr mravalprofilian
aqtivs flobda. romeli biznesi aR-
moCnda yvelaze ufro momgebiani?
_ rentabelobiT _ stoilenskis
samTo-gamamdidrebeli kombinati, Ca-
debuli kapitalis ukugebiT _ qarxa-
na `kauCuki~. misi aqciebi 1991 wels
150 aTas dolarad viyideT, misi ga-
yidviT ki sul cota 500 milion
dolars miviRebT. qarxana mdebareobs
moskovis centrSi did teritoriaze,
sadac sul male didi mSenebloba ga-
CaRdeba.
_ rodis da ra principiT yidu-
lobdiT samrewvelo sawarmoebs?
_ daiwyo privatizacia, banks fu-
li hqonda, piradad vecnobodi gasa-
yidad gamotanil sawarmoTa sias, va-
fasebdi maT maCveneblebs, perspeqti-
vas. arCevanis dro mqonda erTaderTi
SezRudva: arasodes vacxadebdi pre-
tenzias iseT aqtivebze, romlis ga-
moc, SesaZloa, kriminaluri omi ga-
CaRebuli da amiT sakuTari da Cemi
TanamSromlebis sicocxlisTvis saf-
rTxe Semeqmna. amitomac banki navTo-
bis, aluminis da foladsasxmel sa-
warmoebs ar yidulobda.
_ `rosiiski krediti~ giravnobis
bevr auqcionSi iRebda monawileobas,
magram arasodes gaumarjvia. ratom?
_ banks giravnobis auqcionebSi
gancxadeba imitom ki ar Sehqonda,
rom gasayid aqtivebze kontroli mo-
epovebina, aramed imisTvis, rom auq-
cionebi CaeSala. Cven rom mogvego,
aqciebs saxelmwifos davubrunebdiT.
maSin komunistebi privatizacias
utevdnen, giravnobis auqcionebi maT
mniSvnelovan `kozirs~ aZlevda, ar-
sebobda riski, rom isini mTlianad
privatizaciis process CaSlidnen.
privatizaciis kanonebi xom naCqare-
vad iwereboda, arasrulyofili iyo,
xolo giravnobis auqcionze qonebis
gayidva sulac ukanonoba iyo.
_ anu Tqven privatizaciis
gadarCenas cdilobdiT?
_ ara marto amas. giravnobis
auqcionebi bazarze arsebuli
Zalebis balanss arRvevda da ga-
marjvebulebi CemTan SedarebiT
ukanono upiratesobiT sargeb-
lobdnen. rasakvirvelia, mindo-
da amisTvis xeli SemeSala. xma-
urs vtexdi, rom Cemi pozicia
mTavrobis, prezidentis yuramde
misuliyo, magram seriozuli
mtrebi SeviZine mxolod. im
dros mimdinare saxelmwifo sa-
TaTbiros arCevnebSi kraxi gani-
cada moZraobam `naS dom _ ra-
sia~, romlis lideric maSinde-
li premieri viqtor Cernomir-
dini gaxldaT. aman elcinis kri-
tika gamoiwvia da rogorc imd-
roindeli ministrTa kabinetis
erT-erTi wevri miyveboda, Cer-
nomirdini Tavs imarTlebda da
arCevnebSi damarcxebis mizezad
giravnobis auqcionebis winaaRm-
deg Cvens gamosvlebsa da masme-
diaSi atexil xmaurs asaxeleb-
da. marTalia, ar SemiZlia, vam-
tkico, rom arsebobda Cernomir-
dinis pirdapiri miTiTeba, magram er-
Ti kviris ganmavlobaSi, TiTqmis er-
Tdroulad (amis damadasturebeli
dokumentacia SemorCenili maqvs),
mogvakiTxa ruseTSi arsebulma yvela
makontrolebelma struqturam: sava-
luto kontrolma, raionisa da qala-
qis sagadasaxado inspeqciebma, sagada-
saxado policiam, safinanso kont-
rolma, centralurma bankma. da es
yvelaferi arCevnebis damTavrebamde
moxda. yvelaze metad sagadasaxado
policia aqtiurobda _ banks erT
welze meti xnis ganmavlobaSi amow-
mebda, magram aranairi darRveva ar
upovia. amitomac sagadasaxado poli-
cia cdilobda, zemoqmedeba moexdina
saerTaSoriso auditorze (ArthurAndersen) da maTgan bankis Sesaxebdokumentebi moepovebina, winaaRmdeg
SemTxvevaSi, ruseTSi muSaobis akr-
ZalviT emuqreboda. sagadasaxado po-
liciis maSindel ufross (sergei)
almazovs maSinve davureke. Cven Sev-
xvdiT erTmaneTs da arasdros dama-
viwydeba is saubari. vcdilobdi, ga-
`ar megona, rom miliarderi gavxdebodi~
14 gv.
14 saerTo gazeTi #44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.
mego, ratom xulignoben misi TanamS-
romlebi, banki xom isedac yvelanair
dokuments aZlevda, man ki mipasuxa:
`yvelaferi kargad geqnebaT, oRond
miTxari, rogor axerxeb Cemi TanamS-
romlebis mosyidvas? ukve mesamed
vcvli Cems saukeTeso personals,
romlebic Sen gamowmeben, da verana-
ir Sedegs ver miaRwies~. gamikvirda,
Tavidan verc mivxvdi, ras gulisx-
mobda. ganmimarta: `rogor axerxeb
maT gadabirebas da maTTan garige-
bas?~ vupasuxe: `RmerTma damifaros!
sagadasaxado policiasTan arasdros
milaparakia da arc momavalSi vapi-
reb amas. Zalian kargad mesmis, rom
es yvelaferi Tqven SegikveTes!~ man,
rasakvirvelia, ar aRiara,
dakveTa rom hqonda. ase dav-
SordiT erTmaneTs.
_ Zneli dasajerebelia,
rom Tqven ideuri mosazrebe-
bis gamo yvelaze msxvil ga-
rigebebSi ar monawileobdiT...
_ miuxedavad amisa, asea.
magaliTad, giravnobis auqci-
onebis Semdeg erT weliwadSi
tiumenis navTobkombinatis
(ÒÍÊ) saxelmwifo paketi
iyideboda. paketis naxevarze
pretenzias acxadebda mixail
fridmani da german xani, vik-
tor vekselbergma SemomTava-
za, meore naxevari erTad gve-
yida. davTanxmdi da masTan
erTad auqcionisTvis ori
Tvis ganmavlobaSi vemzadebo-
di; magram navTobkombinatis
direqtorma viqtor paliim am
auqcionis mizanSewonilobis
gamo xmauri atexa da sul
bolo momentSi masSi monawi-
leobaze uari ganvacxade.
_ vekselbergma da `alfa-
jgufma~ tiumenis navTobkom-
binatis meSveobiT didi fuli
iSoves. ar nanobT, rom mis yidvaze
uari ganacxadeT?
_ ar SemeZlo, monawileoba mime-
Ro iseT garigebaSi, romlis kanonie-
rebaSi iotisodena eWvi mepareboda.
mogitanT kidev erT magaliTs: sain-
vesticio konkursze Cems partnio-
rebTan erTad mixailovskis samTo-ga-
mamdidrebeli kombinatis 20 procen-
ti SeviZine. sul male sainvesticio
programaSi aRmoCnda uzusto gaTv-
lebi, kanonmdebloba ki programis
Secvlis uflebas ar iZleoda da mi-
si TviTneburad Secvla arc Cven
gvicdia. amitomac aqciebi saxelmwi-
fos davubruneT. garwmunebT, saxel-
mwifo sakuTrebaSi aqciebis nebayof-
lobiTi dabrunebis sxva SemTxvevas
ver ipoviT. mxolod weliwadnaxev-
ris Semdeg movaxerxeT da fulis
auqcionze am kombinatis aqciebi xe-
laxla gamovisyideT. me sruliad
gansxvavebuli taqtika mqonda: vyidu-
lobdi iseT aqtivebs, romlisTvisac
brZola ar iyo saWiro, romelsac sa-
Tanadod ar afasebdnen an saerTodac
wamgebiani iyo. yvelani foladsamsx-
melo sawarmoebisTvis ibrZodnen,
nedleulis mimwodeblebi ki aravis
ainteresebda; maSin viyide mixailov-
skis, stoilenskis, lebedinskis sam-
To-gamamdidrebeli kombinatebi.
_ samTo-ggamamdidrebeli kombina-
tebi axla foladsamsxmel sawarmo-
ebs aWarbeben, rentabelobiT romeli
aRwevs 500 procentamde?
_ marTlac iyo aseTi rentabelo-
ba, magram samTo-gamamdidrebelma kom-
binatebma didi mogeba sam-oTx weli-
wadSi moitana. manamde ki xuTi-eqvsi
weliwadi gvixdeboda maTi subsidi-
reba, am kombinatebis TanamSromle-
bisTvis xelfasic ki moskovidan mig-
vqonda. metalurgebi kombinatebs kar-
naxobdnen, ra fasad Seisyiddnen ned-
leuls da Cveulebisamebr, TviTRire-
bulebaze ufro iafad yidulobdnen.
viTarebis Sesacvlelad didi Zalis-
xmeva damWirda: Cemi iniciativiT, ru-
seTis samTo-gamamdidrebelma kombina-
tebma da yazaxeTis aseTive sawarmom
dades karteluri SeTanxmeba da war-
moebis moculoba Seamcires, anu ba-
zars zedmeti nedleuli moaciles
da metalurgebi mxolod amis Semdeg
gaxdnen samTo-gamamdidrebel kombi-
natze damokidebuli.
_ Tqven ambobT, rom arasodes
CndebodiT iq, sadac riski iyo, 1997
wels ki mainc aRmoCndiT yvelaze
cxel wertilSi _ krasnoiarskis
aluminis qarxanaSi.
_ am qarxnis aqciebi meorad ba-
zarze viyide, Tanac qarxnis yvelaze
msxvili aqcioneri ar vyofilvar. ise
moxda, rom krasnoiarskSi muSaoba
bevrad adre daviwye, vidre aluminis
qarxanaSi movxvdebodi, jer kidev
1992 wels bankma SeiZina 30 procen-
ti krasnoiarskis metalurgiuli
qarxnisa, romelic aluminis qarxanas
esazRvreba da sadac aluminis pro-
duqcia mzaddeba. Tumca im momentSi
am qarxniT aravin dainteresebula da
gaCerebuli iyo, radgan aravin aZlev-
da metals. es mdgomareoba 1994
wlamde gagrZelda, vidre krasnoiar-
skis aluminis qarxnis aqcionerebma
ar miiRes gadawyvetileba, metalur-
giuli qarxnis balansze gada-
etanaT saxelmwifo sakuTreba-
Si arsebuli aluminis qarxni-
sa da aCinskis Tixamiwis kom-
binatis aqciebis 20 procen-
ti.
_ Tqven xom ar waaSveleT
amas xeli?
_ me araferi vicodi. alu-
minis qarxnis mesakuTreebi fi-
qrobdnen, rom SemdgomSi am pa-
ketebs gaakontrolebdnen. isi-
ni gaocebulni darCnen, roca
Seityves, rom krasnoiarskis
metalurgiul kombinats msx-
vili aqcioneri ukve karga xa-
nia hyavs. maT SemomTavazes am
paketis gayidva da 1996 wels
Zalze Zvirad gavyide. erTi
wlis Semdeg aluminis qarxnis
aqcionerTa Soris Tavi uTanx-
moebam iCina. vasili anisimovi
kargad icnobda sam maTgans _
aleqsandr kolpakovs, vladi-
mir ratnikovs da oleg kims,
romlebsac aqciebis 28 pro-
centi ekuTvnodaT. anisimovma
miTxra, rom kolpakovi da
ratnikovi qarxnis aqciebis 48 pro-
centis myidvelebs eZebdnen, Tumca me
da vasilim maTgan aqciebi mxolod
mas Semdeg viyideT, roca maT anato-
li bikovsa da genadi druJinins 20
procenti daubrunes da bikovi da-
Tanxmda imas, rom Cven yvelani erTad
vimuSavebdiT.
_ ratom daniSneT maSin bikovi
`rosiiski kreditis~ vice-ppreziden-
tad?
_ igi arc bankis sabWos wevri
iyo, xelfassac ar Rebulobda da
bankSi aranair rols ar asrulebda.
bankSi yovelTvis bevri vice-prezi-
denti iyo _ es Cemi idea iyo: am Ta-
namdebobaze vniSnavdiT bankis klien-
tebs, msxvili sawarmoebis xelmZRva-
nelbs an mesakuTreebs. xalxs siamov-
nebda, praqtikulad ki isini iRebdnen
savizito baraTebs warweriT _ `vi-
ce-prezidenti~.
_ krasnoiarskis aluminis qarxnis
ramdeni procenti gekuTvnodaT? ro-
dis da ratom waxvediT qarxnidan?
_ me da vasilim (anisimovma), ori-
vem erTad kolpakovisa da amxanage-
bisgan 14 procenti viyideT. 5-5 pro-
centi Glencore-sgan da Daewoo-sgangamovisyideT. amgvarad, roca alumi-
nis qarxnidan movdiodi, me 12 pro-
centi mqonda. am qarxanaSi erTi we-
lic ar vyofilvar _ mas Semdeg wa-
vedi, rac bikovsa da sxva aqcione-
rebs (mxaris) gubernator aleqsandr
lebedTan konfliqti SeeqmnaT.
_ amboben, rom Tqven asponsoreb-
diT lebeds.
_ lebeds maSin davexmare, roca
yvelasgan mitovebuli politikosi
iyo. anatoli Cubaisi xelmZRvanelob-
da elcinis winasaarCevno Stabs,
romlis wevrebic lebeds seriozu-
lad ar aRiqvamdnen. me ki Cems ofis-
Si misi winasaarCevno Stabi ganvaTav-
se, mis, ase vTqvaT, `raskrutkas~ va-
finansebdi. arCevnebamde erTi TviT
adre yvela mixvda, rom me marTali
viyavi: elcins dabali reitingi hqon-
da, lebedma ki arCevnebSi Tavisi xme-
bi elcins dauTmo da amiT misi ga-
marjvebac uzrunvelyo. maSin CemTvis
madlobac ki aravis uTqvams, xolo
rodesac lebeds xsnidnen (uSiSro-
ebis sabWos xelmZRvanelis Tanamde-
bobidan), yvelam gaixsena, rom igi me
moviyvane (politikaSi) da gaminapi-
res (gamriyes). es iyo erTaderTi
SemTxveva, roca politikur proces-
Si vmonawileobdi. mere, roca le-
beds gubernatorad irCevdnen, Zvele-
burad, kadrebiT ki davexmare, magram
uSualod ar damifinansebia da masTan
arc aranairi kavSiri ar mqonia.
`SeiZleboda,
yvelaferi damekarga~
_ Tqven sxvadasxvagvar aqtivs yi-
dulobdiT, Tumca 90-iiani wlebis
bolos Tqveni sainvesticio aqtivoba
Semcirda. ratom?
_ 1998 wlis defoltis Semdeg
yvelanairi Zalisxmeva `rosiiski kre-
ditis~ problemebis mogvarebas das-
Wirda. sxvaTa Soris, maSin saxelmwi-
fo moxeleebma mogvatyues. msxvili
bankebis mflobelebi defoltis Se-
saxeb mis gamocxadebamde gagvafrTxi-
les. piradad me, defoltis katego-
riuli winaaRmdegi viyavi, Tumca yve-
la mamSvidebda, xolo centraluri
bankis xelmZRvaneli sergei dubinini
dagvpirda, rom Tu saWiro gaxdeba,
bankisTvis kredits miiRebTo. ga-
mocxadda defolti da menabreebi Ta-
vianTi fulis wasaRebad bankebs mi-
awydnen. sxvebiviT rom movqceuliya-
viT, _ fuli ar gagveca, Cveni bankis-
Tvis krizisis Sedegebi aseTi damang-
reveli ar iqneboda. miuxedavad ami-
sa, Cven ori kviris ganmavlobaSi yve-
la msurvels patiosnad davubruneT
180 milioni dolari. roca fuli
gagviTavda, dubinins Tavisi dapireba
Sevaxsene, magram krediti ar momca.
_ ra Sedegebi moutana defoltma
banks? ra moimoqmedeT bankis krizi-
sidan gamosayvanad?
13 gv.
ixileT `saerTo gazeTi~
internetSi
www.saertogazeti.netSemogvierTdiT FACEBOOK-zzee
`ar megona, rom miliarderi gavxdebodi~
15#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w. saerTo gazeTi
_ maSin rTuli arCevanis winaSe
aRmovCndi _ an gavkotrebuliyavi an
damoukideblad gametarebina rest-
ruqturizaciis procesi. Zneli iyo
aseTi gadawyvetilebis miReba, Tumca
restruqturizacia varCie. CemTvis,
rogorc bankis aqcionerisTvis, mas
ekonomikuri TvalsazrisiT, azri ar
hqonda _ kargad mesmoda, rom rest-
ruqturizebuli bankis sabazro Rire-
buleba Zalian dabali iqneboda. pasiv-
sa da aqtivs Soris gansxvaveba daax-
loebiT, erTi miliardi dolari iyo.
paradoqsulia, magram safasuri
yvela Cemi aqtivisa, romlebic bank-
Tan dakavSirebuli ar yofila, im
dros erTi miliardic ki ar iyo. ma-
Sin miviRe gadawyvetileba, yvela Ce-
mi samrewvelo sawarmos _ lebedins-
kis, stoilenskis, mixailovskis sam-
To-gamamdidrebeli kombinatebis, `tu-
laCermetis~, orlovskis foladsag-
linavi qarxnis, sastumroebis aqcie-
bi bankis valebis uzrunvelsayofad
Camedo. aseTi giravnobis gareSe, rom-
lis nawilis mogvianebiT gamosyidva
momixda, `rosiiski kreditis~ klien-
tebi ukiduresad dazaraldebodnen,
rasac Cemi cxovrebiseuli principe-
bis gaTvaliswinebiT ver davuSvebdi.
bevrs ar esmoda Cemi _ nacnob biz-
nesmenebs lamis TviTmkvlelad mivaC-
ndi (`rosiiski krediti~ sakredito
organizaciebis restruqturizaciis
saagentos /�—˚˛ / mmarTvelobaSi ga-
davida. miiRo ra bankis 25 procenti
+ 1 aqcia sakuTrebaSi, kidev 50 pro-
centi _ marTvaSi, saagentom mas 4,5
mlrd rublis sakredito xazi gaux-
sna. im momentSi `rosiiski kreditis~
sakredito davalianeba daaxloebiT,
erT miliards Seadgenda. 2000 wlis
agvistoSi damtkicda SeTanxmeba,
romlis Tanaxmadac, meanabreebma
(moTxovna _ 1,8 miliardi rubli)
erTjeradad 30 000 rubli da ban-
kis veqsilebi miiRes, xolo korpo-
raciulma klientebma (moTxovna _ 21
miliardi rubli) _ moTxovnis 10
procentamde fulis saxiT da bankis
veqselebi, romlebic aT weliwadSi
iyo dasafari. 2003 wlis ivnisSi
bankma fizikuri pirebis mimarT arse-
buli valdebulebebis 90 procenti
dafara. 2003 wlis noemberSi `rosi-
iski kreditis~ kapitali kvlav dade-
biTi gaxda. restruqturizaciis saa-
gentos warmomadgenelTa TqmiT, es
yvelaferi damatebiTi emisiis mimdi-
nareobisas bankis kapitalSi valebis
konvertaciis Sedegad moxerxda. _
´�����æ�Ł)_ ra aqtivebi gayideT kredito-
rebis gasastumreblad?
_ paketebi, romlebiTac lebedin-
skis samTo-gamamdidrebeli kombina-
tis gakontroleba SeiZleboda, or-
lovis foladsaglinavi qarxana, `tu-
laCermeti~. vyiddi imas, razec yve-
laze didi moTxovnileba iyo. sxva-
TaASoris, mixailovskis kombinatis
aqciebi maSin aravis sWirdeboda, im
dros maTSi 50 milion dolarsac ki
aravin gadaixdida. sul bankis aqcio-
nerebma kreditorebs daaxloebiT,
450 milioni dolari gadauxades _
am TanxaSi Sedis aqciebis realizaci-
iT miRebuli Semosavali da `arkos~
kreditebi, romlebic Cven mogviane-
biT sakuTari biznesis meSveobiT dav-
fareT. sxvaTa Soris, maSin rom Se-
menarCunebina da axla gameyida, kidev
3 miliards miviRebdi.
SeiZleboda, yvelaferi damekarga.
qveyanaSi ekonomikis aRmasvla kidev
naxevari wliT rom Seferxebuliyo,
iZulebuli gavxdebodi, Cadebuli qo-
neba gameyida da araferi SemrCeboda.
SarSan bankis restruqturizacia
dasrulda. darwmunebuli var, amiT
ara marto `roskreditisa~ da misi
aqcionerebis prestiJi, aramed mTli-
anad ruseTis sabanko sistemisadmi
ndoba amaRlda. ucxoeli bankirebi
gafacicebuli akvirdebodnen ruseT-
Si situacias, xolo Cveni bankis
restruqturizaciam yvelas daanaxa,
rom msgavsi problemis civilizebu-
lad mogvarebis magaliTebi ruseTSi
SesaZlebeli iyo.
_ dRes xom ar nanobT, rom aseTi
restruqturizacia gadawyviteT?
_ vamayob, rom ase moviqeci. Sevi-
narCune Cem mier Seqmnili banki.
`roskreditis~ restruqturizacia
erTaderTi SemTxvevaa msoflio praq-
tikaSi, roca mTavrobis mizeziT war-
moqmnili valebi kerZo kompaniam gais-
tumra. Tumca, rasakvirvelia, odnav
gulsatkenia, rom Zalian cotam daa-
fasa is, risi gakeTebac maSin momiwia.
_ ra gakavSirebdaT biznesmen ar-
kadi gaidamakTan, romelmac 2000
wels `rosiiski kreditis~ direq-
torTa sabWos Tavmjdomaris Tanamde-
boba daikava? gqondaT Tu ara erTob-
livi proeqtebi? amboben, rom rom
mas surda, TqvenTan erTad orlovis
foladsaglinavi qarxana eyida.
_ gaidamaki 1991 wels gavicani.
mas ruseTSi qonebis yidva undoda,
masTan, iseve rogorc aTas sxva me-
warmesTan erTad, SesaZlo erTobliv
investiciebze vmsjelobdi. mas marT-
lac surda, orlovis foladsaglina-
vi qarxnis aqciebis yidva, magram sa-
bolood, fuli ar gaiRo. masTan ara-
nairi erToblivi biznesi ar mqonia.
samagierod, misi wyalobiT, uZravi
qonebiT davkavdi. 1992-1993 wlebSi
gaidamakma `minskisa~ da `centralna-
ias~ aqciebis uzrunvelyofiT, banki-
dan gamoitana kreditebi, romlebic
ar daubrunebia.
_ da mainc _ iyo Tu ara gaidama-
ki `rosiiski kreditis~ aqcioneri?
2000 wels bankSi ambobdnen, rom igi
aqcioneria.
_ Cveni nacnobobis pirvelive
dRidan undoda daveyoliebine da mis-
Tvis bankis Tundac 10 procenti mi-
meyida, magram uars veubnebodi. 2000
wels ki gamoCnda da meubneba, rom
Tanaxmaa, 200 milion dolarad 25
procenti iyidos. banks maSin rest-
ruqturizaciis saagentos marTavda.
fuli rom moeca, ufro did pakets
mivcemdi nakleb fasad. maSinve doku-
mentebi ar gagviformebia, xeli ar
mogviweria, magram igi sabWos Tavmj-
domared daniSnes _ swored maSin (a-
leqsandr) livSici Tanamdebobas to-
vebda, mis adgilze sxva vinme unda
SegverCia. gaidamaks, rogorc Cans, ar
sjeroda, rom banks ar gavakotrebdi.
sami Tve imuSava CvenTan, sakuTari
TvaliT naxa yvela giravnoba da wa-
vida. roca SevityveT, rom igi iara-
RiT vaWrobda, vTqvi, bankSi aRar da-
vinaxo-meTqi.
`gadavwyvite, Cems
did meurneobaSi
wesrigi davamyaro~
_ ra gegmebi gaqvT Tqveni bankebis
Semdgomi ganviTarebis Sesaxeb? xom
ar apirebT `impeqsbankis~ gayidvas?
SesaZlebelia Tu ara `rosiiski kre-
ditisa~ da `impeqsbankis~ Serwyma?
_ vidre mixailovskis samTo-ga-
mamdidrebel kombinatTan dakavSire-
biT garigebas davdebdi, `impeqsban-
kis~ gayidvis variants ganvixilavdi,
magram axla gadavwyvite, finansuri
seqtori erT-erT prioritetul mi-
marTulebad vaqcio. axlaxan `rosi-
iski kreditis~ sawesdebo kapitali
gavzarde 100 milioniT 350 milio-
namde _ `tulaCermetis~ gayidviT
amonagebi Tanxa Cavde. arc ise didi
xnis win 50 milioni `impeqsbankSic~
Cavde. uaxloes periodSi orive bank-
Si kidev 150 milionis dabandebas va-
pireb. maT gaerTianebas ar vapireb, es
ekonomikurad gamarTlebuli ar aris,
ufro xelsayrelia ori bankis qona
_ erTi, `impeqsbanki~, specializdeba
sacalo momsaxurebaze, xolo `rosi-
iski kredits~ ramdenime weliwadSi
qveynis erT-erT saukeTeso sainvesti-
cio bankad vaqcev. saamisod ki didi
Zalisxmevaa saWiro, uwinaresad, es
exeba bankis imijs _ yvelas axsovs,
rom `rosiiski krediti~ ramdenime
wlis ganmavlobaSi Tvlemda.
_ ramdenad gamarTlebulia `impeq-
sbankis~ ganviTareba, roca ucxouri
bankebis poziciebi Zlierdeba da maT-
Tan konkurencia sul ufro rTul-
deba.
_ ucxouri bankebis konkurencias
rom win aRudge, erT-erTi maTgani
partniorad unda gaixado. Cven (aqci-
ebis) 25 procentis gayidva gvindo-
da, magram potenciurma myidvelebma
dagvarwmunes, rom damblokavze nak-
lebi ar ainteresebdaT. amitomac ax-
la molaparakebebs vawarmoebT 25
procents + 1 aqciis gayidvis Sesa-
xeb. es garigeba biZgis mimcemi iqneba
bankis ganviTarebisTvis, Semdeg ki
biznesis sworad gamarTvaa saWiro.
_ visTan gaqvT molaparakebebi?
_ safrangeTis, germaniis, holan-
diis bankebTan. arCevani uaxloes xan-
Si gakeTdeba.
_ ratom gayideT mixailovskis
samTo-ggamamdidrebeli kombinati?
_ jer kidev 90-iani wlebis Sua
periodidan moyolebuli, samTo-gamam-
didrebeli da foladsaglinavi kom-
binatebis gaerTianebas veswrafvodi,
raTa sruli sawarmoo jaWvi Seqmni-
liyo. aqtivebis gaerTianebis SesaZ-
leblobaze vmsjelobdi yvela msxvi-
li kombinatis mflobelebTan _ vla-
dimir lisinTan, viqtor raSnikovTan,
aleqsei mordaSovTan. TiToeul maT-
gans gaerTianebul kompaniaSi sakon-
trolo paketis SenarCuneba surda,
rac CemTvis xelsayreli ar iyo. yve-
laze metad warmatebuli gamodga mo-
laparakebebi aleqsandr abramovTan
(`evrazholdingis~ TanamflobelTan).
SarSan masTan mivaRwie SeTanxmebas
`evrazholdingisa~ da mixailovskis
kombinatis gaerTianebis Sesaxeb. ga-
erTianebul kompaniaSi me miviRebdi
40 procentamde, riTac misi umsxvi-
lesi aqcioneri gavxdebodi (`evraz-
holdingis~ aqciebi kompaniis menej-
ments Soris aris ganawilebuli. _
´�����æ�Ł). dokumentebi mzad iyo
xelmosawerad, roca Cemma Zvelma me-
gobarma vasili anisimovma da aliSer
usmanovma sxva winadadeba SemomTava-
zes.
_ Tavdapirvelad iTqva, rom aqti-
vebs gaaerTianebdiT, ramdenime Tvis
Semdeg ki yvela saxtad datoveT
imiT, rom kombinati 2 miliard do-
larad gayideT.
_ Cven erToblivi biznesis SesaZ-
leblobaze, maT sakuTrebaSi arsebu-
li metalurgiuli kombinatis `nos-
tas~ bazaze axali metalurgiuli
warmoebis Seqmnis Sesaxeb daviwyeT
msjeloba. me mindoda mixailovskis
kombinatis aqciebis sakontrolo pa-
keti SemenarCunebina, isini ki, aseT
SemTxvevaSi, `nostaSi~ _ saboloo
mza produqciis mwarmoebel kombi-
natSi daJinebiT moiTxovdnen pari-
tets. aseTi varianti CemTvis miuRe-
beli iyo da gadavwyvite, maTTvis
mTliani paketi mimeyida _ abramovis-
gan gansxvavebiT, maT es winadadeba
SemomTavazes.
_ iqneb metalurgiul bizness Ta-
vi imitomac daanebeT, rom ruseTSi
sul ufro da ufro mkacrdeba biz-
nesisTvis aucilebeli pirobebi?
_ mixailovskis samTo-gamamdidre-
beli kombinatis aqciebi imotom gav-
yide, rom kargi fuli SemomTavazes.
politikis komentireba ki ar msurs.
_ rodis ufro muSaobdiT kom-
fortulad _ Tqven xom egreT wode-
buli sabazro urTierTobebis TiTo-
euli periodis Taviseburebani saku-
Tar Tavze gaqvT gadatanili?
16 gv.
16 saerTo gazeTi #44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.
_ yvelaze komfortulad maSin
vgrZnobdi Tavs, roca `rosiiski kre-
diti~ qveynis erT-erTi umsxvilesi
banki iyo, romelic ganviTarebis
mwvervalze imyofeboda.
_ vidre mixailovskis kombinatTan
dakavSirebul garigebas dadebdiT,
manamde stoilenskis samTo-ggamamdid-
rebeli kombinati gayideT. iqmneba
STabeWdileba, rom Tqven qonebas yi-
diT.
_ gadavwyvite, Cems did meurneo-
baSi wesrigi davamyaro. aRar maqvs
Zveleburi energia, rom yvelafriT
erTbaSad davkavde. Zalian bevri sxva-
dasxvagvari aqtivi maqvs, romelTagan
bevri privatizaciis dasawyisSivea
nayidi. wlis bolomde yvela arapro-
filuri aqtivis gayidvas vapireb, da-
vitoveb mxolod `stoilenskaia ni-
vas~, bankebs, uZrav qonebas, saafTia-
qo bizness, aRmosavleT cimbiris
navTobisa da gazis kompanias
(ÂÑÍÊ).
_ ramdenad afasebT `unikoris~
aqtivebs? ra Tanxas miiRebT arapro-
filuri qonebis gayidvis Sedegad?
_ Cemi azriT, axla yvela aqtivis
Rirebuleba 1,5-2 miliardi dolaria,
araprofiluri aqtivebisa ki _ daax-
loebiT 500 milioni dolari.
_ Tqven stoilenskis samTo-ggamam-
didrebeli kombinati 510 milion do-
larad gayideT, mixailovskis kombi-
nati da `tulaCermeti _ 2 miliar-
dad. bazari daintrigebulia _ ro-
gor gankargavT amonageb fuls?
_ mixailovskis kombinatis aqcie-
bidan amonagebi Tanxis naxevars ax-
landel proeqtebSi davabandeb. CemT-
vis axla prioriteti soflis meur-
neobaa. `stoilenskaia nivaSi~ ukve
Cadebulia 200 milioni dolari, da-
matebiT kidev 200-300 milionis in-
vestirebas vapireb. axla molaparake-
bebs vmarTav kompaniis SeZenis Sesa-
xeb, romelic `stoilenskaia nivas~
masStabisaa. misi dasaxeleba jerje-
robiT ar SemiZlia.
_ ratom aris prioritetuli
soflis meurneobis biznesi? gagaCni-
aT rame gaTvla, rom igi perspeqti-
ulia?
_ axlandel pirobebSi msgavsi
gaTvla SeuZlebelia, bevr rames
mTavrobis pozicia gansazRvravs. er-
Tgvari sportuli interesi mamoZra-
vebs _ rTul seqtorSi warmatebuli
kompania Sevqmna.
_ gaamarTla Tu ara saafTiaqo
biznesma Tqveni molodini?
_ Cven igi arafrisgan daviwyeT.
jerjerobiT mogeba Cadebul investi-
cias ver aWarbebs, misi reinvestire-
ba mimdinareobs, magram es mimarTu-
leba perspeqtiulad mimaCnia. kidev
100-200 milionis Cadebas vapireb.
SarSan samxreTis federalur olqSi
ukve viyideT didi saafTiaqo qseli,
axla mis rebrendirebas vaxdenT.
dRes bevria am biznesiT dainterese-
buli _ Cven ganvacxadeT, rom mzad
varT viyidoT saafTiqo qseli, magram
aravis unda misi gayidva.
_ uZrav qonebasTan dakavSirebuli
ra proeqtebis realizebas apirebT?
_ daiwyo `minskis~ rekonstruq-
cia~, Semdegi sastumro `centralna-
ia~ iqneba. meorad bazarze sastumro-
ebis yidvis SesaZleblobas vswavlob.
`kauCukis~ teritoriaze, romlis sa-
erTo farTobi 10 heqtaria, sul ma-
le daiwyeba mravalfunqciuri didi
kompleqsis mSenebloba _ ofisebiT,
sacxovrebeli saxlebiT da sxv. uZ-
ravi qonebiT SemdgomSic davkavdebiT,
ukve veZebT Zvel nagebobebs, miwas
mSeneblobisTvis. uZrav qonebaSi yve-
laze didi investicia Caideba _ da-
axloebiT 500 milioni dolari.
_ Tqvens mflobelobaSia didi
satransporto kompania `wiaRiseulis
gadazidvs centri~. xom ar apirebT
mis gayidvas? ramdenad afasebT mas?
_ vfiqrob, misi fasi 250 mili-
oni dolaria. es kompania sarkinigzo
gadazidvebSi umsxvilesia, mis parkSi
4 000 vagonia. uaxloes aT weli-
wadSi mas veravin Seaviwroebs. jer-
jerobiT ar gamomaqvs gasayidad, mag-
ram Tu myidvelebi moiZebnebian, gav-
yidi.
_ raSi unda daxarjoT mixailov-
skis kombinatis gayidviT miRebuli
Tanxis meore naxevari? raime msxvili
aqtivis yidvas apirebT? iqneb ruse-
Tis sazRvrebs miRma?
_ yvelanair Sesyidvas vapireb
mxolod ruseTSi, romelsac kargad
vicnob. viyiddi axal did kompanias,
magram saintereso winadadebebi ar
Cans. erT-erTi varianti iqneba aRmo-
savleT cimbiris navTobisa da gazis
kompaniis sakontrolo paketis yidva.
`unikors~ am kompaniis aqciebis 28,5
procenti aqvs. igi aRmosavleT cim-
biris, kerZod, CemTvis kargad nacno-
bi krasnoiarskis mxaris bolomde ga-
moukvleveli, magram navTobis pers-
peqtiuli maragebis aTvisebiT aris
dakavebuli.
_ rogor aRmoCndiT am proeqtSi?
_ `iuksis~ (1998 wlis ga-
zafxulze `sibneftisa~ da `iukosis~
mflobelebi am saxelwodebiT gaer-
Tianebuli kompaniis Seqmnas apirebd-
nen. _ ´�����æ�Ł) daSlis Semdeg,
`sibneftis~ aqcionerebma aRmosavleT
cimbiris navTobisa da gazis kompania,
aRar maxsovs, romel navTobreide-
rebs mihyides. isini am kompaniis aq-
ciebis 100 procents me mTavazobd-
nen; vfiqrobdi, rom marto ver gavw-
vdebodi da (aRmosavleT cimbiris
navTobisa da gazis kompaniis) sakon-
trolo paketis `iukosisTvis~ miyid-
vis organizeba gadavwyvite. am proeq-
tis bedi jerjerobiT gaurkvevelia.
Tuki saxelmwifo gamoxatavs Tavis
pozicias aRmosavleT cimbiris nav-
Tobisa da gazis kompaniis mimarT,
SesaZloa, pretenzia gamecxadebina
sakontrolo paketis Sesyidvaze, mag-
ram xom unda vicode, visTan vawar-
moo molaparakebebi _ `iukosTan~ Tu
saxelmwifosTan?
_ aRmosavleT cimbiris navTobisa
da gazis kompaniis aqciebis sakont-
rolo paketis SesaZenad `iukosTan~
molaparakebebi mimdinareobs?
_ jerjerobiT _ ara.
_ riTi gxiblavT es proeqti?
_ kargad vicnob am kompanias, igi
warmatebiT viTardeboda, mis mimarT
pretenziebi ar hqoniaT (da axlac
asea) im saxelmwifo organoebs, rom-
lebic bunebaTsargeblobis sakiTxebs
aregulireben. aqcionerebma masSi uk-
ve Cades 190 milioni dolaris inves-
ticia. aRmosavleT cimbiris navTobi-
sa da gazis kompaniis ganviTarebis
strategia Cven, rogorc minorita-
rul aqcionerebs, xels gvaZlevs.
Tuki aRmosavleT cimbiris navTobisa
da gazis kompania gaiyideba, am pro-
eqtis aTvisebas mxolod Cemi fuli
ar eyofa, damatebiTi saxsrebis mo-
zidva iqneba aucilebeli.
_ Tuki aRmosavleT cimbiris nav-
Tobisa da gazis kompaniis yidva ver
moxerxda?
_ portfelur investorad davr-
Cebi. kargad vicnob sainvesticio bi-
zness. me ukve mekuTvnis `gazpromis~,
`lukoilis~, sxva kompaniebis TiTo-
TiTo procenti. momavalSi rusuli
kompaniebis likviduri qaRaldebis
yidvas kvlav gavagrZeleb.
_ saqarTveloSi axlaxan dabrun-
diT. didi xania, iq biznesi gaqvT?
_ daaxloebiT aTi welia, rac sa-
qarTveloSi biznesi maqvs. aqtivebi
sxvadasxvagvaria. Cems mflobeloba-
Sia kvebis dargSi erT-erTi umsxvi-
lesi kompania _ `Tolia~, romelic
amzadebs nayins, pelmens, namcxvrebs.
maqvs banki `qarTu~, agreTve saqarT-
veloSi udidesi samSeneblo kompania,
romelic ofisebsac aSenebs da
sacxovrebel saxlebsac; sasoflo-sa-
meurneo kompania, romelsac 600 ha
miwa ekuTvnis. Cems sakuTrebas war-
moadgens saqarTveloSi yvelaze didi
marani, romelic mTaSia gaWrili. iq
RviniT savse uzarmazari cisternebia.
300 heqtarze vazi gavaSeneT, ganvi-
Tarebas vfiqrobdiT, magram axla yve-
lafer amas vyidi, myidvelebic gamoC-
ndnen. mxolod banks davitoveb.
_ ratom gadawyviteT saqarTve-
loSi biznesis gayidva?
_ male 50 wlis vxdebi da axla
aucilebelia mTavarze koncentrire-
ba, yvelafris erTad gaZRolas sxva
energia sWirdeba. erTaderTi proeq-
ti, romlis dasrulebac msurs, es
aris samTo-saTxilamuro kompleqsi
`bakuriani-2~. ramdenime wlis win ev-
ropis erT-erT saukeTeso mTian mxa-
reSi, bakurianSi, miwis didi nakveTi
SeviZine. kanadurma da avstriulma
kompaniebma ukve Seadgines sakuror-
to kompleqsis ganviTarebis genera-
luri gegma. kompleqsi moicavs
saTxilamuro trasebsa da gasarTob
centrs. wleuls proeqtis pirveli
etapis _ gondolebiani sabagiro
gzis mSeneblobis dafinansebas vi-
wyeb, gaisad ki mTliani infrastruq-
tura mzad unda iyos. TviTon ver
davkavdebi am proeqtiT. iq ZiriTadad
rusi turistebi Cavlen. minda, rom
rusma turoperatorebma sastumroe-
bis mSenebloba daiwyon da mzad var,
maT mSeneblobisTvis miwa usasyid-
lod gadavce da dafinansebis SeRava-
Tiani pirobebic SevTavazo.
_ saqarTveloSi Tqvens dabrune-
bas qveyanaSi seriozuli cvlilebebi
daemTxva. rogor afasebT am cvlile-
bebs?
_ xelisuflebaSi movida axal-
gazrduli Zala, magram me maTi arc
momxre var da arc mowinaaRmdege.
sul es aris, risi Tqmac SemiZlia.
saerTod ki, Zalian vwuxvar, rom ru-
sul-qarTuli urTierTobebi aseT ka-
lapotSi miedineba.
_ ramdenad sajaro cxovrebas
eweviT saqarTveloSi, rogori damo-
kidebuleba aqvT adgilobriv poli-
tikosebs, biznesmenebs Tqven mimarT?
_ arc erT maTganTan ar maqvs
kontaqti, gancalkevebiT vcxovrob,
mxolod naTesavebTan, axlo megob-
rebTan vurTierTob. aranairi poli-
tikuri ambicia ar gamaCnia, ubralod,
minda, sakuTar ojaxTan erTad mSvi-
dad vicxovro. Cems sofel Worvilas
xandaxan biznesis sakiTxebis mosagva-
reblad Tu vtoveb.
_ Tu es yvelaferi marTlac asea,
maSin ratom mimarTeT sasamarTlos
pativisa da Rirsebis dasacavad?
_ imitom, rom arasodes damikar-
gavs pativi da Rirseba, sindisis kar-
naxiT vcxovrobdi. am faseulobebis
aRdgenaze ki isini dafiqrdnen, vinc
Cemze sicrues werda.
maria roJkova, Âåäîìîñòè7 aprili, 2005 weli
15 gv. `ar megona, rom miliarderi gavxdebodi~
17saerTo gazeTi#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.
im mxares, sadac Cv.w. aR-iiT I
saukuneSi andria pirvelwodebul-
ma da mataTa mociqulebma iqada-
ges, saakaSvilma da misma yaCaRebma
pirisagan miwisa aRgva gadauwyvi-
tes. saakaSvilis uniWo fantaziiT
“damSvenebuli” baTumi SarSan vi-
xile. amitom wels, universiteti-
dan gamogdebuli da mowafebis ana-
bara datovebuli dedaCemis SeTa-
vazebas davTanxmdi. “naCuqar cxens
kbilebs an usinjaven” da dapati-
Jebaze uari ar vTqvi, qobuleTSi
gavyevi. saakaSvilis “naqebi da ay-
vavebuli aWaris” nasaxs _ qobu-
leTSi ver naxavT. lamazi da
zrdili aWarlebiT ganTqmul mxa-
reSi, gaWirvebis miuxedavad, xal-
xi iseTive Tbili da gulRiaa, ro-
gorc adre. gakvirveba saakaSvilze
saubarma gamoiwvia. daSinebuli
Tbiliselebisgan gansaxvavebiT,
ver vnaxe aWareli, romelmac obi-
eqturi da marTali Sefaseba ar
misca saakaSvilis uTavbolo bo-
gins saqarTveloSi. erTma aWarel-
ma sinanuliT isic miTxra_ saakaS-
vili qobuleTs ise ar wyalobs,
rogorc baTumso. meorem ki daayo-
la, SesaZloa, kargic aris, Torem
aqaurobasac gaaTurqebdao. aWaris
gaTurqebis dasawyiss ki, 5-55-wwu-
Tis SualediT Camoqrolebu-
li“GeliK”, “SeS-TTaz”-iis warwere-
biani Tuqruli trailerebis meS-
veobiT, saqarTveloSi Turquli
porduqciis eqsapansiac metyve-
lebs. kolxeTis uZveles miwazec
alisa da ninos distrofiuli qan-
dakebebic amisTvis dadga da didad
amayobs. simboloebisadmi masonTa
gansakuTrebuli midrekilebebis
gaTvaliswinebiT, am qandakebebis
dadgmasac simboluri datvirTva
unda hqondes. mainca da mainc ni-
no (saxeli)- qarTvelTa ganmanaT-
leblis, mociqulTa sworis da
arabi “alis” dadgma, SemTxveviTo-
ba ar unda iyos! anu ramdenadac
ali, ideaSi, ninos “erT xorc
xdeba”, unda vivaraudoT, rom
“ali baba garekil I-ss Tavisi na-
cionali yaCaRebianad” ninos saxiT
alisgan saaqarTvelos gaxarWeba
ganuzraxavs. muslimTagan araerTg-
zis aoxrebul-ddapyrobil aWaraSi
arabuli arqiteqturis elemente-
bisa da wels ukve Cadriani irane-
li da arabi qalebis simravlec
_ amaze miuTiTebs. investorebad
Semosul Turq biznesmenebsac mSe-
neblebad Turqebi SemohyavT. inev-
storebma saqarTveloSi “monaTmf-
lobeli plantatorebis” funqcia
itvirTes. maT kompaniebSi dasaqme-
buli yvela qarTveli, faq-
tobrivad, monis pirobebze muSa-
obs. dapirebuli maRalxelfasiani
samuSao adgilebis nacvlad, eray-
Si sakontraqto xelSekrulebiT
gagzavnil qarTvelTa msgavsad,
aWaraSic qarTvelTa diskriminacia
xdeba. Turqi batonebis sastumro-
ebis mSeneblobebisas, maTi Camoyva-
nili muSa, ufaso sacxovrebliTac
da samjeradi kvebiTac uzrunvel-
yofilia. xelfassac eraySi “ame-
rikeli natoelebis” msgavsad, qar-
Tvelze orjer mets iRebs. sas-
tumroSi eqim-mmasaJistis adgilze
muSaobis dasawyebad misul qalba-
tonebs ki samuSaos im SemTxveva-
Si sTavazoben, Tu seqsmomsaxure-
bazec daTanxmdebian.?! anu xalxu-
ri eniT rom vTqvaT, eqimi dotis
msgavsad “ibozeben”. “garekil ali
baba I da misi nacionaluri yaCa-
Rebic”, romlebic, “kikus” msgav-
sad “fuli baba, bevri fulio”
eZaxian Tavian “miSa babas”. Tanax-
ma arian fulis sanacvlod saku-
Tari ded-mmamac ki gahyidon, araTu
samSoblo da sarwmunoeba. saakaS-
vili qobuleTs armenebiT avsebs,
baTums ki TurqebiT. saboloo
jamSi ki, saqarTvelos did haram-
hanad gadaqcevas gegmavs, sadac
msoflio seqsindustriaSi qarT-
vel gog-bbiWebs Caabams. aba baTumis
gei-aaRlumisTvis saxldaxelod ga-
keTebul saitebze, sxvadasxva sas-
tumroebSi, ucxoelebs, sxvadasxva
momsaxureobas tyuilad xom ar
sTavazobdnen? an “msoflioSi sa-
xelganTqmul anakliaSi” “nudis-
turi plaJis” mowyobas tyuilad
xom ar gegmavs? “pirveli qalba-
tonic,” 90-iiani wlebis dasawyis-
Si, 8 gogonasTan erTad, areul
saqarTveloSi SemTxveviT xom ar
Camosula? igive megruli, svanuri
da qarTuli dialeqtebic SemTxve-
viT xom ar uswavlia? arc “ali
baba garekils”, saqarTvelos moma-
val prezidents “SemTxveviT” rom
ar Sexvedria strasburgSi _ ama-
Sic eWvi aRaravis unda eparebo-
des. “amerikuli proeqtis es wyvi-
li Tavis yaCaRebianad” mizanmimar-
Tulad angrevs da anadgurebs sa-
qarTvelos. “pirveli qalbatoni”
sirinozis xmiT da angelozis sa-
xiT axla samegrelosTvis gakeTe-
buli klipidan gvimReris. “gamar-
joba, afaxazeTo Senis” da “koki-
Ti fandarastis” samaCabloze ga-
daRebulma klipebma es mxareebi
dagavakargvina. axla, SesaZloa, sa-
megrelosac, raRac amdagvars upi-
rebdnen. praqtika ase adasturebs.
miT ufro maSin, roca cxirvalSi
gamarjvebis aRsaniSnav aRlumSi
rusi samxedroebic apireben mona-
wileobas. vin icis, garekils ki-
dev ra garigeba aqvs maTTan?!
saakaSvili dafiJvinebuli “ka-
ligulas saxiT” turizmis ayvave-
bas gvpirdeba. misi “pirveli qal-
batoni” ki saqarTveloSi ganxor-
cilebeuli jandacvis yvela daman-
greveli proeqtis monawilea. Tum-
ca saakaSvilis gverdiT imdeni
“sirinozis xmiani” qalbatoni mom-
ravlda, rom xalxi ukve veRar
arkvevs, romelia pirveli da ro-
meli meore, an mesame?! “am siri-
nozTa galobas” A”ali baba gare-
kilis” gulis mosagebad miSavizi-
ebi 24-ssaaTian reJimSi atriale-
ben. arc isaa gamoricxuli, 24
000 000-aad Sefasebuli turiste-
bisTvis asaSenebeli saavadmyofoc,
swored is aRmoCndes, romelsac
saqarTveloSi organoebis transp-
lantaciisTvis aSeneben da arc,
rogorc boroti enebi saubroben,
rom “organoebiT vaWrobis am sa-
erTaSoriso qselis saqarTveloSi
mTavari kuratori” swored sta-
tusiT “pirveli qalbatonia”. imi-
tom, rom jandacvis proeqtebze
eqskluzivi saqarTveloSi mas ga-
aCnia! saakaSvils saqarTvelo da
qarTvelebi ise sZuls, rom SesaZ-
leblobis SemTxvevaSi, saqarTve-
los gulsac amoglejda. Tumda
agvistos omiT es nawilobriv ga-
akeTa kidec. afxazeTs ki, rogorc
ZirZvel dakargul miwa-wwyals, uk-
ve aRarc ki axsenebs. Amboben, mis
aRiarebasac apirebs kideco?! axla
ki ‘”aWaris siyvarulis buSti aqvs
gaxeTqili”. specialurad, ramde-
nime asiaTasad gadaRebul filmSi
“mziani saqarTvelo” or Jurna-
lists baTumSi gamoyenebul evro-
puli arqiteqturis elementebze
esaubreba. evro-
pulze metad ba-
TumSi islamuri
elementebi rom
sWarbobs, amaze
arafers ambobs.
”garekili ali
Tavisi nacionali
yaCaRebianad” Tbi-
lissa da Tbilise-
lebs arCevenebis
wagebis gamo rom
ver itans, axali
araa. Tumca sapre-
zidentod gamzade-
buli ugulavas sa-
winaaRmdegod, aWa-
raSi metad sainte-
reso faqti aRmo-
vaCine?! nu ityviT
da denze mibmuli
nagvis tarific da
samrSruto taqse-
bis gaZvirebac Tu-
rme mxolod Tbi-
liselebis sulis
amosaZrobad sagrialo fulebis
amosaqaCad, eqskluziurad Tbili-
sisTvis SemoiRes.
“ali baba garekil I-ss” qobu-
leTis gaTurqebis sakiTxze metad
sCans qobuleTis gaarmeneba aqvs
ganzraxuli, naTelia. armeniaSi
swavla pirvel seqtembers iwyeba.
CemisTana qarTvelebic, mSvidi da-
sasvenebisTvis, da qarTul mxare-
Si dasvenebas am dros arCevs. swo-
red seqtembris dasawyisSi Cadis
aWaraSi. miuxedavad amisa, sruli
SegrZneba iyo, rom armeniis mier
oupirebul regionSi imyofebodi.
armenuli warwerebi, simRerebi da
yvelgan armenuli saubari amis
srul gancdas iwvevda. marTalia,
Cvenma mTavrobam, saqarTveloSi da
aWaraSi “turizmis ayvavebiT” yu-
rebi gamogviWeda. Tumca is ar
icis, rom am tiraJirebuli tu-
rizmis infrastruqturas aWaraSi
mtrebi gamouCnda. Cveni sastumros
win mdebare bungalos restoranSi
SuaRamemde erTmaneTs gamayruebe-
li xmiT, qarTuli, rusuli da
somxuri simRerebi cvlida. dasas-
veneblad Camosuli turistebisad-
mi aseTma adgebulma damokidebu-
lebam, kerZo vizitiT Camusuli
amerikeli turistebic ki aRaSfo-
Ta da maT saswrafod datoves qo-
buleTi. aRsaniSnavia, rom xsenebu-
li bungalo yofil gamgebels_
vinme noRaidels ekuTvnis. miuxe-
davad “ali baba garekil I-iis” da-
qadnebuli araklanurobisa, yofi-
li gamgeblis “sviazebi”qobuleT-
Si isev “Wris”. Sewuxebuli dams-
veneblebisgan araerTgzis gamoZa-
xebuli patruli ki, xSirad Rame-
ul RriancelSi monawileobas Ta-
vad agrZelebda. rac ara marto
“saakaSvilis turizmis infrastr-
qurturas”, aramed merabiSvilis
policiis mier mopovebul avto-
ritetsac laxavs. miuxedavad imi-
sa, rom Ramis yoveli Rreoba po-
liciis himniT iwyeboda da srul-
deboda. Ramis sam saaTze mainc ga-
sakviri mosasmeni iyo, gamayruebe-
li xmiT namReri _ “dRes simsSvi-
de aris Cveni mizanio”. gansakuT-
rebuli interesi CemSi simReram _
“ß ëþáëþ òåáÿ Ðîññèÿ“-mm gamoiw-via. marTalia, “ruseTis” nacvlad,
momRerlebis “rostovs” ambobd-
nen, magram rostovic ruseTis na-
wilad ar moiazreba? Aai, garekil
rogor pativs scemen Sens tu-
rizms da amave dros, rogor uy-
varT Seni “saZulveli ruseTi”?!
Cvens sastumroSi erevnidan
Camosuli ori qaliSvili isveneb-
da. qarTuli stumarT-mmaspinZlo-
bidan gamomdinare, sakmaod Tbili
da kargi uTierTobebi dagvimyara-
da. sakmaod, ganaTlebulma da kar-
gad aRzrdilma 34 wlis qalba-
tonma, armenebis uaryofiTi damo-
kidebuleba garegin II-iis mimarT
Riad daafiqsira. garegin II-ss
Turme ieRovelebisa da mormone-
bis seqtebi, sxva seqtebTan er-
Tad, religiis rangSi auyvania da
Tavad armenul eklesiaSic gan-
xeTqilebaa amis Taobazeo. stefa-
nianis provokatorul saqmianoba-
zec visaubreT da swori informa-
ciis gacvlisTvis, erTmaneTis
“imeilebic” gavcvaleT. “warmoSo-
biT javaxeTidan var, iq davibade,
erevanSi vcxovrob da yovel
zafxuls me da mamaCemi Cvens so-
felSi, “Cvens faravnis” tbaze
davdivarTo”. mogviyva 15 wlis ge-
nocdizec. rogoria? armeniidan,
adamianebi rogorc sakuTar so-
felSi, ise dadian saqarTvelos
teritoriaze. an gasakviri raa,
rodesac “ ali baba garekil I-iisa
da misi nacionali yaCaRebis xel-
Si, saqarTvelos sazRvrebis de-
markaciac ar aris gakeTebuli.
romel mezobels, rogorc unda
ise moiwevs da gvaWris miwa-
wyals. “ormagi moqalaqeoba unda
aviRo da qarTuli unda viswav-
loo”_ miTxra armenma erminem.
“is ki ara, karg qarTvel biWsac
SeiZleba gavyve, oRond cota ar-
menuli sisxlic unda erioso”.
armenebis prezidentis, serJ sar-
qisianis gancxadebas Tu gaviTva-
liswinebT, is javaxeTis mosaxe-
lobisTvis armenulis regionalu-
r enad aRiarebas moiTxovs,
oRond principiT _ “integracia
asimilaciis gareSe”. es ki karg
qarTvelTan, Tundac “cota arme-
nuli sisxliT narevTan” urTier-
Tobas gamoricxavs. ase rom, Cems
axal nacnobs _ ermines qarTvel-
ze gaTxoveba ar uweria?! misive
monaTxrobiT, armenebs hgoniaT,
rom saqarTvelo yvavis. armeniaSi
iseTive gaWirveba yofila, ro-
gorc CvenTan. (Cveni regionebis
msagavsad, rasac televiziiT uyu-
reben sjeraT, rom biznesebi damo-
ukidebelia, gadasaxadebi dabali
da pensia uzarmazari. ”me aq Ca-
movdivar da vici, simarTle rac
ariso”. iqneb armeniaSi simarTle
rom gaigon _ saqarTvelos Tavi
daanebon?! “javaxkSi”, rogorc
ermine uwodebs javaxeTs, bevrsaa
aqvs armenuli pasporti. es ki
afxazeTSi da samaCabloSi mezobe-
li qveynis pasportebis darigebis
analogias waagavs. “garekil ali I
da nacionali yaCaRebi” arc amaze
“ibartyuneben yurs”. metic, sa-
qarTvelos istorias amaxinjeben
da cvlian. Cems axal nacnobTan
saubrebisas mivxvdi, rom maT da-
badebidan araswor istorias as-
wavlian da unergaven, rom javaxe-
Ti maTi istoriuli miwaa?! ro-
gor, javaxeTSi 30-iian wlebSi da-
saxldiT-TTqo vuTxari. Tqvens ge-
nocidze rom saubrob, 18-119
wlis, TbilisSi armenebis SemoW-
ra da axalgazrda oficrebis
amowyvetac gaixsene-TTqo. amis Se-
saxeb araferi smenia da gaocebu-
li mismenda. vkiTxe, aq daibade.
mogwons. aravin gagdebs aqedan.
gaTxovebasac ki apireb da sabo-
lood, saqarTveloSi javaxeTis
bedi rogor warmogidgeniaT java-
xeTis armenebs-TTqo? Cven, armenebs,
yarabaRis msagavsad, “javaxeTis”
avtonomia warmogvidgenia, oRond
gveSinia ferganis msgavsi movle-
nebi ar ganmeordeso. aucileblad
ganmeordeba-mmeTqi. Cven imdeni mi-
wa-wwyali davkargeT, sxvaTa So-
ris, nawili Tqvens teritoriad
iTvleba, rom qarTvelebi dRes
amas aRar daTmoben-mmeTqi. am axal-
gazrda qals javaxeTi marTla Ta-
visi miwa-wwyali hgonia. bavSvobi-
dan ase aswavlian da misi brali
ar aris. seriozuli muSaoba, sa-
mecniero doneze istoriuli wya-
roebis wamowevaa saWiro. faqtia,
rom aseTi adamianebis ukan bevria
“daSnakuri organizaciebis” pro-
vokatori agentebi.
qveynis realuri aRmSenebloba
da istoriuli kanonierebis aRd-
gena da qveynis samarTlebriv, sa-
erTaSoriso CarCoebSi Casma, pir-
vel etapze, 1801 wlis kanoniere-
bis aRdgeniT unda daviwyoT da
TandaTan mivyveT yvelafers. anu
konstituciur monarqiaze gadavi-
deT. amiT Cvens miwa-wwyalze mezo-
beli saxelmwifoebis uzomo ma-
dasac avlagmavT. evropul monar-
qiul ojaxSi SesvliT ki avtoma-
turad im ganviTrebadi qveynis
statusidanac gamovalT, ris ga-
moc gaanadgures yvelaferi. amas,
TavisTavad, ganaTlebis, jandacvi-
sa da a.S normaluri done mohy-
veba. avcdebiT mona-mmosamsaxure
erad Camoyalibebasac. araqarTu-
li warmomavlobis mmarTvelis
Tavgasul parpaSsa da ucxo qvey-
nidan marTul, marionet prezi-
dentsac. imitom, rom “ali baba
garekil I-iisa da misi nacionali
yaCaRebisa” da igive opozicione-
ri politikosebis xelSi, saqar-
TveloSi qarTvel kacs bednieri
cxovreba ar uweria. axal mosu-
li prezidenric, sabolood, sa-
Tavisod moixmars saqarTvelos
da vin icis, kidev ras moimoqme-
debs.
baia amaSukeli
ali baba da nacionaliyaCaRebi
18 saerTo gazeTi #44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.
Wkvianma icis da gkiTxavs
Cemi mizani dReidan aRar
aris did qarTul politikaSi
gamoCenili biZina ivaniSvilis
Rvawlsa da kaiymobaze wera. Cven
amaze ukve saerTo, Camoyalibebu-
li mosazreba gvaqvs. panegirikas
unda SeveSvaT, eiforiidan gamo-
videT da saqmes mivxedoT, saqmiT
davdgeT am kacs gverdiT da arc
is daviviwyoT, rom amiT mas ki
ar davexmarebiT, aramed mamuls,
momavals da sakuTar Tavs.
raSi unda gamoixatos es Ta-
nadgoma?
uwinaresad, am etapze, saqmi-
ani winadadebebisa da rCevebis
gacxadebaSi. qarTvelma sazoga-
doebriobam sainformacio saSa-
lebebiT unda Seqmnas rCevebisa
da ideebis Taviseburi banki, ro-
melsac batoni biZina da misi
Stabi daamuSaveben, riTac erTis
mxriv sworad dainaxaven da Ta-
vidan aicileben riskebs, meres
mxriv ki efeqturad `daaziane-
ben~ mowinaaRmdegis `sacecxle
wertilebs~.
gasagebia, rom axla uamrav
patriots aqvs baton biZinasTan
Sexvedris da gasaubrebis survi-
li, magram es gamoricxulia ori
mizezis gamo: pirveli _ uzarma-
zari nakadis axlo xanebSi miRe-
ba praqtikulad ganuxorcilebe-
lia; meore _ es mizanSeuwonelia
usafrTxoebis TvalsazrisiT.
amdenad, vfiqrobT, TanamS-
romlobis aseTi forma pirvel
etapze yovelanairad gamarTle-
bulia, xolo batoni biZina, ime-
dia, erTi sparsuli sibrZniT ga-
mogvexmaureba: `Wkvianma icis da
gkiTxavs, uWkuom ar icis da ar
gkiTxavs~.
mamuli, ena,
sarwmunoeba
batono biZina, is, vinc Tqve-
ni mimarTvebi da interviuebi wa-
ikiTxa, SeuZlebelia Tqvens siq-
veleSi (siqvele martooden
qvelmoqmedeba araa, igi uSiSro-
ba da vaJkacobac aris _ gavixse-
noT farsman qveli) da mamuliS-
vilobaSi daeWvdes. magram es
imedi da ndoba kidev ufro gaib-
rwyinebs Tu sityvebTan _`demok-
ratia~, `Tavisufleba~, `Taname-
gobroba~ da sxva misTanasTan
erTad xSirad gaiJRerebs: `eri~,
`mamuli~, `samSoblo~, `qarTuli
cnobiereba~, `ilia~ da sxva. pir-
veli noembris preskonferencia-
ze marTlac sanimuSo gamosvlis
gvirgvini iyo winadadeba: `me
vxedavdi, rom vkargavdi samSob-
los da politikaSi amitom mo-
vedi~. gulis siRrmidan daZrul-
ma am sityvebma milionobiT qar-
Tvelis gulSi gaiara. ar dagaeW-
voT iman, rom Rirseuli winap-
rebis saxelis xsenebis gamo vin-
mem fariseveli xelisuflebis
wevrebTan gaavlos paraleli.
mTavaria, romeli WurWlidan
gadmoedineba sityva.
samSoblos rom siyvarulSi
gamoutydebi adamiani, amas ras
sjobs, miTumetes maSin, roca
bolomde gaqvs SegrZnobili misi
fesvebi da am fesvebis naJuri.
saqarTvelo ar aris is qveyana,
romelmac evropelobiT unda
ikeklucos (sul sxvaa masTan
mWidro TanamSromloba, riskenac
yovelTvis iswrafvoda Cveni qve-
yana). masxendeba markiz de kius-
tenis sityvebi: `me rusebs ar
vkicxav imisTvis, rac namdvilad
arian, magram vgmob maT survils
Tavi evropelebad mogvaCvenon...
SeiZleboda imedi ar dagvekarga
maTi kulturuli SeTvisebisa,
rom maimunebiviT ar baZavdnen
sxva erebs da imavdroulad ar
dascinodnen maT, visac baZaven~.
es naTqvami martooden rusebs
rodi Seexeba. mimbaZveloba gansa-
kuTrebiT damamcirebelia iseTi
erisTvis, romelic uZvelesi
msoflio civilizaciis wiaRSi
warmoiSva da Camoyalibda. Cveni
sisxlismieri gancda, sulieri
mimoqcva da warmosaxva, Cveni
qmedeba Cvens enaSi, simReraSi,
rokvaSi, samiwaTmoqmedo kultu-
raSi da kosmogonur warmodge-
nebSia. ai, amas gulisxmobs ili-
aseuli triada `mamuli, ena,
sarwmunoeba~ (da ara `ena, mamu-
li sarwmunoeba~, rogorc e.w.
`cnobadi saxeebi~ warmosTqvamen
SecdomiT). ai, am triadas unda
davubrunoT bolo Jams dabeCave-
buli Cveni eri, raTa kvlavac ma-
radisobas gausworos Tvali.
Tu gsurs mSvidoba,
emzade omisTvis!
misasalmebelia `xelisufle-
bis~ (ratom vsvam am sityvas
brWyalebSi, odnav qveviT mogax-
senebT) mSvidobinad, arCevnebiT
Secvlis survili, quCis aqcieb-
ze da mitingebze uaris Tqma. ki,
rogor ara, oRond im SemTxveva-
Si, roca saqme gvaqvs cud an
Tundac Zalian cud xelisufle-
basTan, axla ki Cven Sinaur
mters vupirispirdebiT. sxvaTa-
Soris, es Tqvens mierac iyo
gacxadebuli pirveli noembris
preskonfereniaze.
XIV saukuneSi cnobili qar-
Tveli Tavadi da sazogado moR-
vawe qucna amirejibi niadag aR-
ma-daRma dahqroda da diploma-
tiiT cdilobda lang-Temuris
laSqrobebis Sekavebas, avadmyo-
furi fsiqikis dampyrobma ki ma-
inc rvajer aaoxra saqarTvelo.
me ara mgonia, rom sulieri
mdgradobiT saakaSvili bevrad
ukeTesi iyos lang-Temurze.
batono biZina, rogorc xse-
nebul preskonferenciaze brZa-
neT, im SemTxvevaSic ki Tu saa-
kaSvils Tundac mis mier morge-
bul konstituciur CarCoebSi
ver daabrunebT da igi xalxis
nebas win aRudgeba, Tqven sxva
saSualebebiT SesZlebT mis `da-
SoSminebas~ (es ukanaskneli Cemi
sityva _ g.q.).
intuicia mkarnaxobs, rom
Tqven martooden saerTaSoriso
zewolisa da xalxis nebis gamo-
xatulebis imedi ara gaqvT, da
ar gaqvT imitom, rom, I. Tundac
aSS-is zewolisa Tu rCevis miu-
xedavad saakaSvilis gadadgomis
imedi minimaluria. mas
moulodnelad romc ga-
uCndes aseTi survili,
Zneli dasajerebelia,
`saqmeSi gasulma~ Tu
gasvrilma Tanagunde-
lebma amis neba darTon.
II. xalxis nebis mSvido-
bian gamoxatulebas es
reJimi fizikur Zalas
daupirispirebs. simarT-
le mogaxsenoT, didi
daZabulobiTa da SiSiT
vuyurebdi preskonfe-
rencias, romelsac SeiZ-
leboda `JurnalistTa~
Soris dapirispireba da
inspirirebuli Cxubi
mohyoloda, rac, albaT,
Tqvens rezidenciaSi
specnazis SemoWriT
dasruldeboda. gavixse-
noT `kavkasiis~ magali-
Ti. Tu am mcdelobas
Tqvens teritoriaze
naklebi warmateba elis,
sxvagan win veraferi da-
udgeba.
Rrmad viyoT darw-
munebuli, rom saTanado
uwyebebSi ramdenime mz-
akvruli proeqti igeg-
meba, maT Soris teraq-
tebi da TviTteraqtebi,
fsevdoopoziciuri partiebis mi-
er mowyobili manifestaciebi da
areulobebi, Tqveni `momxreebis~
aRiarebiTi Cvenebebi da Tqven
warmoidgineT, saomari moqmedebe-
bic ki romelime ajanyebuli re-
gionis~ winaaRmdeg. am ukanask-
nel varauds mxars ubams ruse-
Tis dazvervis Sefis al. Sliax-
turovis bolo gancxadeba afxa-
zeTsa da cxinvalis regionSi
mosalodneli provokaciebis Se-
saxeb. erTi sityviT, sabolood,
xalxis quCaSi gamosvlas da Za-
lasTan Zalis dapirispirebas
mxolod saswauli Tu agvaci-
lebs, politikur brZolaSi ki
saswaulebi ar xdeba. mwams, am
ambavs arc Tqven gamoricxavT,
magram ori mizezis gamo ver am-
xelT: erTi imitom, rom gulw-
rfelad ar gsurT e.w. kadafiza-
cia da meorec imitom, rom... es
meore mizezi, modiT, marto Cven
vicodeT.
yvelas megobari
aravis megobari araa
sicruea is, rom viTomdac
politikaSi megobroba ar arse-
bobs, _ politikanebis moWorili
ambavia es. roca politikaSi
eriskacebi midian, maSin samSob-
los siyvaruliT gulanTebuli
adamianebi, Tundac gansxvavebuli
xasiaTisani, aucileblad megobr-
debian. amis magaliTi zviadi da
merabi iyvnen. magram amasTanave
`yvelas megobari aravis megobari
ara aris~-o ambobda platoni.
diaxac, saqarTvelos gamTli-
anebisa da gamarjvebis mosurne
kacma yvelasTan unda iTanamS-
romlos, magram yvelasTan, gansa-
kuTrebiT ki iseT politikur
ZalebTan damegobreba, romelTac
kviraSi Svidi paraskevi aqvT da
viTarca lerwamni niavis mcireo-
den daqrolvazec aqeT-iqiT ir-
wevian, miuRebelia. miuRebelia
es imitom, rom sazogadoeba maT
safuZvlianad ar endoba.
mliqvnelebis amocnoba io-
lia, farisevlebisa ki rTuli.
farisevlebi Rupaven ideebs,
saqmeebs, qveynebsa da xalxebs.
farisevlebma awames macxova-
ri.
fariseveli is kacia, rome-
lic ar mliqvnelobs da imanWe-
ba TavkacTan, magram yvelafers
sakuTar interesebs anacvalebs,
sityviT da gamoxedviT eriska-
cia, magram Tvals miefareba Tu
ara, saTavisod Wris da keravs.
arcTu ise didi xnis winaT
Tqveni da Tqveni fondis saxeli-
Ta da Rvawlis xsenebiT erTma
diacma Tqvens mona-morCils cu-
di saqme moswia _ erovnuli saq-
mis keTebaSi xeli SeuSala. am
ambis gamowvlilviT Tqma axla
arc egebis da arc amis droa,
magram gaxsenebiT imitom gavix-
sene, rom momavalSi aseTi reci-
divebi aviciloT Tavidan.
ager, batono, mere faqti:
Tqven rom erT-erT politikur
partias TanamromSloba SesTava-
zeT, imave Tu meore dRes misma
erT-erTma liderma `kavkasiis~
eTerSi ise isaubra, TiTqos,
sxva politikuri Zalebis arCeva,
TqvenTan erTad misi partiis
prerogativac iyo. ai, farisev-
lobis erTi aSkara magaliTi!
RvTis gulisaTvis, mendeT, rasac
vambob _ aseTia yvela patrio-
tis gancda, mendeT aseve, rom
patriotTa umetesoba, romelic
uaRresad gaxarebulia biZina
ivaniSvilis did politikaSi da
brZolis velze gamoCeniT, gu-
lis kuTxeSi mcire tkivils ma-
inc ganicdis uyuradRebobis ga-
mo. isini imasac xvdebian, rom
SesaZloa, brZolis pirvel etap-
ze, `politikuri Calmac~ auci-
lebelia, magram Tu saxlis ba-
lavari sworad ar daido, kede-
li, rkinisac rom iyos, mainc ga-
daiqceva. aris erTi aseTi WeSma-
ritebac: niWieri kaci erTxel
imedi meore sulia
ixileT `saerTo gazeTi~
internetSi
www.saertogazeti.netSSeemmooggvviieerrTTddiiTT FACEBOOK-zzee
19saerTo gazeTi#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.
Tu SemogTavazebs sakuTar samsaxurs, uni-
Wo ki kars agitalaxebs. amitom niWier
kacs, gulanTebul patriots Sen unda da-
uZaxo. yvelaze niWieri is aris, visac ni-
Wieri uyvars.
endeT, magram SeamowmeT Tqveni axlobe-
li politikuri Tanamzraxvelebi: vis uwe-
ven da vis ara rekomendacias. Tavadac
TqviT da aqamdec icoda xalxma, rom biZi-
na ivaniSvili kadrebs jer profesionaliz-
mis, mere ki patiosnebisa da megobrobis mi-
xedviT arCevs. gTxovT, am CamonaTvals Tav-
Si daumatoT `patriotizmi~, an arada, ro-
gorc cxonebuli revaz TabukaSvili ityo-
da, visurvebdi profesionalizmi patrio-
tizmis erT-erTi umTavresi gamoxatuleba
iyos TqvenTvis.
ena uklitod morbedi
RvTis gangeba aseTia: Wkviani kaci mci-
reds saubrobs, suleli an avanturisti _
bevrs. kargad uTqvams la oZis _ `brZeni
dums, umecari laybobs~-o, magram arc vax-
tang VI-is naTqvamia naklebi: `ena uklitod
morbedi, Wiria ulxinobeli~. qarTvelma
kacma kargad icis am sibrZnis yadri _ er-
Txel ki mousmens soflis Saraze gamomd-
gar `oqropirs~, magram mere da mere yurs
aRar aTxovebs da yeeniviT gaamasxravebs.
Svidi welia am dReSia qarTveli kaci, Svi-
di welia neronis usamarTlobiT, takimas-
xarobiTa da sisuleleebiT itanjeba. amas
imitom vambob, rom biZina ivaniSvilis ga-
moCeniT da misi sidarbaisliT gulze moe-
fina sazogadoebas: ampartavnebis wil did-
sulovneba, mtrobis wil siyvaruli, mSiS-
robis wil vaJkacoba, laybobis wil mozo-
mili sityva gaigona da dainaxa. imaze didi
piari ra unda iyos TqvenTvis, rom sakuTa-
ri personiT arasdros SegibezrebiaT Tavi
xalxisTvis. merwmuneT, es 5,5 miliardze
naklebi qoneba ar aris da misi gaflangva
politikuri gakotrebis tolfasi iqneba.
Cemi, rogorc erTi rigiTi qarTvelisa
da amomrCevlis survilia, rom Tqveni saxe
da sityva arc amas aqeT gacvTes. xalxis
winaSe sajaro da satelevizio gamosvlebi
kvlavac mkacrad reglamentirebuli iyos,
xolo sityva Zalian mokle da konkretu-
li. SeiZleba ar gesiamovnoT an iucxooT,
magram am mxriv, stalinis gamocdileba uni-
kaluria. zeviT naTqvamidan gamomdinare, Se-
iZleba gakvirveba gamoiwvios Cemma meore
survilma: saWiroa kidev ufro gaaqtiure-
ba, oRond ise, rom kulminacias saWiro
dros miaRwios. ismis SekiTxva: rogor un-
da gaaqtiurdeT Tu televiziiT da sajaro
gamosvlebiT ipasiurebT. ai, aq aris saWi-
ro iseTi gundi politikuri mociqulebi-
sa, romelTac darbaiseli oratorebisa da
WeSmariti mamuliSvilebis reputacia aqvT.
aRebuli tempis dagdeba ar SeiZleba. es
pirveli SemTxvevaa, roca e.w. xelisufle-
ba sakuTari karis usafrTxoebaze gadaer-
To da TamaSi mis naxevarze mimdinareobs.
safexburTo enaze rom vTqvaT, Setevebi un-
da gagrZeldes manamde, sanam mowinaaRmdege
sabolood ar danebdeba, jerjerobiT ki an-
gariSi mxolod 1:0-ia. sakmarisia, seriozu-
li kontrSeteva gamogveparos, rom yvela-
feri wyalSi gadaiyreba.
zeviT ramdenime xifaTi da kontrSete-
va ki vaxseneT, magram araferi gviTqvams
iseT sibilweebze, rogoricaa piradad
Tqveni da Tqveni ojaxis Seuracxyofis
survili, Worebis agoreba, daqiravebuli
piitikosebis skabrezuli gaaqtiureba da
a.S. Tu simSvides SevinarCunebT, am Seteve-
bis mogerieba ar gagviWirdeba, radgan am
mxriv aqeT gacilebiT didi resursia. Ta-
nac xom viciT, rom, roca sayaned Waobian
niadags vamzadebT, bayayebis yiyinsac unda
SeveguoT.
SeiZleba bevrma gaikvirvos Tu rodidan
movkide xeli iseT umadur saqmes, rogoric
mrCevlobaa da romeli solomon lioni- Ze
var, magram aris Jami, roca umoqmedoba da
dumili Ralatia. me aq vdgavar da sxvagva-
rad ar ZalmiZs!
Cveni samSoblo axla Zalian gaWirvebu-
lia, gaWirvebulisaTvis ki imedi meore su-
lia.
imedi gamoCnda, magram Tu igi daikarga,
saqarTvelo erTxans suliT daobldeba.
gela qoqiaSvili
Sss-s generaluri inspeqciis ufros
vasil sanoZis daWris ambavma mexis ga-
vardnis efeqti gamoiwvia. oficialuri
versiiT, TiTqos mas tabeluri iaraRi
gauvarda da Tavis areSi daiWra, Tumca
sazogadoebam es informacia naklebad
daijera. isic iTqva, rom daWramde sano-
Ze restoran `puris saxlSi~ imyofebo-
da da iqauroba nasvam mgomareobaSi
myofma datova. am sufraze ramdenime
adamiani iyo, maT Soris frangi stumre-
bic. Sss-s administraciis ufrosma So-
Ta xizaniSvilma oficialuri informa-
cia gaavrcela, rom sanoZes iaraRi sa-
kuTar binaSi gauvarda.
sanoZis mezoblebis TqmiT, misi bini-
dan xmauri ki SemoesmaT, Tumca iaraRi-
dan gasrolis xma ar gaugoniaT. am in-
formaciam garkveuli eWvi maSinve gaaCi-
na. ise vrceldeboda xmebi, rom sanoZes
an esroles, anda Tavis mokvla aiZules.
uflebadamcvelebi am incidents sandro
girgvlianis mkvlelobis saqmes ukavSi-
rebdnen, radgan swored im periodSi ga-
moitana evrosasamarTlom am saqmeze ga-
dawyvetileba. mkvlelobis mcdelobaa
Tu TviTmkvlelobis, am saqmeSi xeli-
suflebis xeli ureviao.
sanoZe ,,saswrafo daxmarebis~ avto-
manqaniT gadaiyvanes RuduSauris klini-
kaSi da dacvis zomebi ise iyo gaZlie-
rebuli, saavadmyofoSi pacientebsac ki
ar uSvebdnen. mogvianebiT, mZimed daWri-
li sanoZe israelis erT-erT klinikaSi
gadaiyvanes da male es ambavi yvelas mi-
aviwyda. sad imyofeba sanoZe da ra mdgo-
mareobaSia, amis Sesaxeb xelisufleba
dums. `saerTo gazeTs~ isic uTxres,
rom igi gamonjarmTelda, saqarTveloSi
dabrunda da Sss-Si Tanamdebobazec da-
niSnes, Tumca am faqts ar axmaurebeno.
sanoZis irgvliv rom Savi Rrubeli
grovdeboda, amis Sesaxeb bevrad adre
gaxda cnobili. mas prokuratu-
rasTan dapirispireba, rom hqonda
da mis winaaRmdeg es uwyeba kom-
promatebs rom agrovebda, es in-
formacia masmediiT zafxulSi
gavrcelda. sanoZis daWrasac am
faqts ukavSirebdnen. sanoZem pro-
kuraturis ramdenime TanamSrome-
li daaWerina da SurisZiebis miz-
niT, prokuraturas misi daWerac
undoda qrTamis aRebis braldebi-
To. sabolood am yvelafers yo-
fili policieli Seewira, ro-
melsac e.w. TaRliTobisTvis 12
weli miusajes, radgan man sano-
Zis sawinaaRmdego Cveneba ar mis-
ca.
cota xnis win `saerTo ga-
zeTs~ anonimurma wyarom sagu-
lisxmo informacia miawoda, ro-
melic sanoZis daWris mizezebs ki ara
Tavad daWris faqtsac eWvqveS ayenebs.
Cven am informaciis sizusteze Tavs ver
davdebT, magram yvela versias aqvs arse-
bobis ufleba, amitom Tavs valdebulad
vTvliT mkiTxvels mivawodoT. miTume-
tes, rom, rogorc gviTxres, es samTav-
robo wreebidan gamoJonili informa-
ciaa.
sazogadoebas kargad axsovs im fex-
burTelebis ambavi, romlebic e.w. gayi-
dul matCebs TamaSobdnen. es fexburTe-
lebi ki dasajes, magram saqme aqve Sewy-
da. vin ukveTavda maT aseT TamaSebs sa-
zogadoebisTvis ucnobi darCa. wyaros
informaciiT, am `biznesSi~ kargad gaTv-
lili sqema muSaobda, romelsac mera-
biSvilis uwyeba kurirebda. uSualod ki
vasil sanoZe xelmZRvanelobda.
axla ki konkretulad am sqemaze vi-
saubroT. mogexsenebaT, totalizatore-
bi mTel msoflioSi da maT Soris azi-
is qveynebSic muSaobs. uceb aRmoCnda,
rom yazaxeTSi, uzbekeTSi, yirgizeTSi
da ufro metic, CineTSi viRac-
viRacebi Zalze seriozul fso-
nebs debdnen qarTul safexbur-
To gundebze, Tumca jobs, Cvens
wyaros movusminoT:
`100.000 aSS dolarze nak-
lebi arcerTi fsoni ar yofi-
la. ranairi gulSematkivari
unda iyos Tbiliseli kaci Tun-
dac Tbilisis `dinamosi~, rom
yazaxeTsa da CineTSi Cavides
totalizatorSi fsonis dasa-
debad. gaxsovT, gayidul Tama-
Sebze rusTavis `olimpikis~ da
sxva gundebis fexburTelebi Ca-
vardnen. Cinelebma da yazaxebma
mgoni isic ar ician, sad aris
rusTavi da samtredia. cxadia,
rom am gundebze qarTvelebi
debdnen fsons, romlebic Sss-s
TanamSromlebi iyvnen, maT So-
ris yofila sanoZec. igi uSua-
lod xelmZRvanelobda am yvelafers. es
fsonebi iseT xalxis saxeliT ideboda,
romelTa gaSifvrac, cxadia, xelisuf-
lebas ar awyobda. dadebdnen am 100.000-
s Tu milions da zustad ise damTavr-
deboda TamaSi, rogorc winaswar iyo
gaTvlili. amiT ki ormag Tanxas igebd-
nen. xsenebul qveynebSi uzarmazari to-
talizatorebia, sadac Zalze didi fu-
li trialebs. specialurad SearCies
iseTi qveynebi, sadac ufro gulubryvi-
lo xalxi cxovrobs. amxela fsonebma
da mogebebma zeda eSelonebSi eWvi gaa-
Cina da daiwyo gamoZieba. cxadia, viRa-
caze unda gasuliyven. gavidnen kidec,
magram maTi gaSifvra ar awyobdaT. adg-
nen da am yvelafers Seswires sanoZe,
iseve rogorc, Tavis droze irakli ko-
dua. ki imizezeben raRacebs, magram yve-
lam xom icis, rom kodua realurad,
iaraRis bizness Seewira. sodi faq-
tobrivad, gaauqmes da mas Sss-Si sakma-
od mokrZalebuli Tanamdeboba misces.
sanoZe rom daeWiraT, alaparakdebo-
da, rac xelisuflebas ar awyobda. am
qveynebidan uzarmazari Tanxebia wamoRe-
buli da saeWvoa, rom amiT marto igi
sargeblobda. amitomac gaiTamaSes es
daWris scena, rom sanoZe saqarTvelodan
moeSorebinaT. saqme imaSia, rom Turme
is sasikvdilod daWrili arc yofila.
an iyo ki saerTod daWrili (sanoZis me-
zoblebmac xom Tqves, rom gasrolis xma
ar gaugiaT – m.s.)? sxvaTa Soris eqime-
bisgan gamovida es informacia. mere ise
gaaformes yvelaferi, rom TiTqos qor-
wilidan wamosul sanoZes SemTxveviT
gauvarda iaraRi da uceb moaSores aqa-
urobas, viTom samkurnalod gauSves. Tu
ar Cacxreboda am totalizatorebTan
dakavSirebuli ambebi, mere albaT, imasac
ityodnen, rom mokvdao. sulac aRar Ca-
movidoda igi saqarTveloSi da romeli-
me qveyanaSi icxovrebda.
Caawyves es yvelaferi da im ramdeni-
me fexburTelze gadatexes joxi, mola-
parakebuli iyvnen da Cawyobil TamaSebs
TamaSobdneno. visTan iyvnen molaparake-
buli, imaze ratom ar gavidnen? aq Ca-
awyobdnen saqmes, vis rogor unda eTama-
Sa, miscemdnen maT 5-5 aTas dolars,
TviTon ki milionebs igebdnen. mere dai-
Wires es sawyali xalxi, viRacas samu-
damod aukrZales fexburTis TamaSi da
amiT damTavrda yvelaferi~.
verafers vityviT, mSvenieri sqemaa
fulis saSovnelad da miT umetes gasa-
TeTreblad. ise, saeWvoa, xelisufleba
am mogebebis kanonierebiT dainteresebu-
liyo, magram Turme aziis qveynebSi ise-
Ti siswrafiT kotrdeboda totaliza-
torebi, rom Tavad am qveynebSi gaCenila
eWvi. etyoba, kvalma saqarTvelosTan mo-
iyvana da nacxelisufleba iZulebuli
gaxda `gadamWreli zomebi~ mieRo.
manana suxiSvili
ukavSirdeba Tu ara vasil sanoZis daWris ambavi totalizatorebSi momxdar
saerTaSoriso xasiaTis afioras?
20 saerTo gazeTi #44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.
ggvveessaauubbrreebbaa
leliko jafariZe.
__ bbaattoonnoo lleelliikkoo,, xxeellii-
ssuufflleebbaaSSii aarreeuulloobbaa ddaawwyyeebbuu-
llaa,, TTqqvveenn xxoomm aarraaffeerrii iicciiTT
aammiiss SSeessaaxxeebb??
_ minda danamdvilebiT
giTxraT is, rac Cemi yuriT
movismine. mirekaven guriidan,
samegrelodan, svaneTidan, sam-
cxe-javaxeTidan iseTi xalxi,
sul rom cali fexiT Camomki-
don, mainc ver vityvi maT
gvar-saxelebs. es xalxi meub-
neba: amzadeben jars, wvrTnian
da ar ikiTxavT, vis agroveben?
_ probacionerebs. emuqrebian:
ar wamoxvalT, isev cixeSi Se-
gabrunebTo.
yvelasTvis cnobilia, sas-
roleTi rom gamarTes da iq
avarjiSeben xalxs. samoqalaqo
omisTvis emzadebian biWebi.
areuloba sWirdeba, etyoba,
miSas axla, am TmaSeRebil de-
generats... magram am bolo
dros veRar iRebavs, Tmebs re-
zo amaSukelis SiSiT.
miSa saakaSvilis saqme, ba-
tonebo, moTavebulia ukve,
gvamia es kaci da veraviTari
Tmis Rebva da vizaJisti veRar
uSvelis.
__ ssaassiikkvvddiilloo ddaarrttyymmaa iivvaa-
nniiSSvviillmmaa mmiiaayyeennaa,, TTqqvveennii aazz-
rriiTT??
_ diax, batono da aferum,
biZinas vakacobas, aqamde rom
saidumlod Seinaxa Tavisi gan-
zraxva da moulodnelad rom
Casca maxvili.
awi, veRaraferi ver uSve-
lis saakaSvils, isea dazaf-
ruli TviTon da misi gare-
mocva. karuselebiT cdiloben
viTom situaciis gamoswore-
bas. ager axla kvezereli ga-
uSva da gorozia moiyvana. kve-
zereli rac iyo da vinc iyo,
dainaxa mTelma saqarTvelom,
magram goroziam ra icis sof-
lis meurneobis? eqimi varo,
rom ambobs, magas klizma rom
daaWerino xelSi, t...s ver mi-
agnebs.
es ubedurebi raRacas epo-
tinebian, magram aRaraferi uS-
veliT. areuloba aqvT SigniT,
mTavrobaSi da es ambebi gamo-
aqvT iqedan. yvelaferi viciT,
rac iq xdeba.
__ TTqqvveenn ssaaiiddaann iicciiTT,, iiqq,,
mmTTaavvrroobbaaSSii rraa xxddeebbaa??
_ mirekaven da meubnebian:
ra vqnaT, ras gvirCev?! me ve-
ubnebi: dahkariT fexi da gai-
qeciT, sanam kidev droa-meTqi.
sastikad eSiniaT ivaniSvi-
lis da xalxis. male vixilavT
yvela maTgans soroebSi SemZv-
rals, an Cemodanze Semomj-
dars da gaqceuls, magram ro-
ca mova samarTliani xelisuf-
leba da erovnuli xalxi. ara-
vis SerCeba qveynis gaRleta
da gaZarcva.
__ iivvaanniiSSvviillii TTuu mmoovviiddaa
xxeelliissuufflleebbaaSSii,, TTqqvveennii aazzrriiTT,,
ssaammaarrTTaallii iizzeeiimmeebbss?? aaqqaa-iiqq,,
ssxxvvaaTTaa SSoorriiss,, aarr vviiccii,, rraa iinn-
ffoorrmmaacciiaazzee ddaayyrrddnnoobbiiTT,, mmaagg-
rraamm mmaaiinncc,, aammbboobbeenn,, TTuukkii xxeellss
ssaaaakkaaSSvviilliisskkeenn iiSSvveerrTT,, aarrcc
iivvaanniiSSvviillii ggaaxxllaavvTT qqaarrTTvvee-
lliioo..
_ mecineba pirdapir, vin,
kaco, es Worvileli kaci araa
qarTveli? kargiT, raa. araqar-
Tveli da kerZod, pirwavard-
nili somexi aris mixeil saa-
kaSvili, amas wyali ar gauva
da yvelam icis dRes es ambavi.
arCevnebSi saakaSvili yv-
elgan agebda, magram sabolo-
od marneuli, gardabani da es
mxare Sveloda, ratom? imi-
tom, rom, somxeTis da azerba-
ijanis mTavroba mouwodebda
TavianT xalxs, mieciT xma sa-
akaSvilis da SeRavaTebs da
privilegiebs miiRebTo. aqvT
kidevac araqarTvelebs qarTve-
lebTan SedarebiT privilegie-
bi im regionebSi, magram er-
Txel da samudamod, sarqisian-
ma da alievma daanebon Tavi sa-
akaSvilis mxardaWeras, poli-
tikuri gvamia ukve Tqveni mi-
xeili!
qveyana Tavze engreva am
aranormalurs da kidev piarze
fiqrobs? saqarTvelo _ som-
xeTis sazRvarze rom miwisZv-
ra moxda, gamovida es ubedu-
ri da kidev imaze daiwyo la-
paraki: somxeTis teritoriaze
gzebi araa gakeTebuli da imi-
tom moxda es tragediao.
kacia, axla, es? da xalxi
arian, vinc am gadareulis
gverdiT dganan? keTildReoba
warmavalia da amaSi me TviTo-
nac davrwmundi. 40 wlis gan-
mavlobaSi moskovSi araCveu-
lebrivad vcxovrobdi, ar mak-
lda araferi, axla TiTqmis
maTxovrad var qceuli, magram
kacoba da adamianoba ar dami-
kargavs.
bargiani mkvdari ginaxavT
sadme? saflavSi veravin vera-
fers Caitans da es SesaniSna-
vad icis ivaniSvilma, amitomac
aqvs gakeTebuli araerTi keTi-
li saqme, qvelmoqmedeba, Wor-
viladan da saCxeridan dawye-
buli mTeli TbilisiT damTav-
rebuli.
__ aaxxllaa aamm yyvveellaaffeerrss ppoo-
lliittiikkuurrii aaqqttiivvoobbaacc mmiieemmaattaa
ddaa mmooiiTTmmeennss aammddeennss xxeelliissuuff-
lleebbaa??
_ dRes rom viyo 30wlis axalgazrda,davdgebodi ivaniSvi-lis karebTan da sa-dac wavidoda, gver-didan ar movcilde-bodi, rom misTvis da-miznebuli tyvia memomxvedroda.
badri patarkaciSvilis
saflavs venacvale, iseTi ram
kidev rom moxdes, damTavrebu-
lia saqarTvelos ambavi.
badris periodis situacia
dRevandelisgan mkveTrad gans-
xvavdeboda, dRes xalxi Tvi-
Ton aris mzad yvelafris Se-
sacvlelad.
zogierTi ambobs, mitingebi
da gamosvlebi ar unda ivaniS-
vils da arCevnebamde jer ki-
dev Soriao. vin unda gamarTos
mitingi. isev im opoziciam?
romlebsac araerTxel da or-
jer erTi da igive aqvT naTq-
vami? arc me da arc Cveni mo-
saxleoba mitingze dRes aRar
dadgeba am gatialebuli opo-
ziciis gverdiT. yvelam erTna-
irad moiWra Tavi, qalbatonma
burjanaZemac, romelic sabo-
lood damTavrda 26 maiss Ta-
vis `krebianad~ da momxreebia-
nad.
kai, batono, gasagebia, am
bodiSi da, JRvintian saakaS-
vils TvalSi eCxireba ivaniS-
vili, magram leiboristebs ra
bzikma ukbinaT, rom gamoxtebi-
an da tlikineben. ver xedaven,
vin arian TviTon da vinaa bi-
Zina ivaniSvili?
__ bbaattoonnoo lleelliikkoo,, aassee yyvvee-
llaaffeerrii mmooggwwoonnTT iivvaanniiSSvviilliiss??
ssaaeerrTToodd uunnaakklloodd mmiiggaaCCnniiaaTT??
_ Cemo iranda, me Cemi qvey-
nis bed-iRbals dadarajebuli
kaci var da Cemi xalxi minda
gavafrTxilo _ vici, ivaniS-
vilma imedi gamoufxizla
xalxs, magram, xalxo, biZina
aris biZina da RmerTi CvenTvis
aris erTi. ar gavaRmerToT
ivaniSvili, kerpad nu warmo-
vidgenT, arc is davRupoT da
Tavsac gavufrTxildeT.
rac Seexeba imas, maqvs Tu
ara SeniSvna. maqvs. biZina
ivaniSvili aris zedmetad
inteligenti. am mTavrobas ki
muSti unda cxvirSi. amas
ver gaakeTebs ivaniSvili da
es unda gavakeToT Cven, xal-
xma.
biZina kulturiT aRsavse
kacia da es gamoCnda preskon-
ferenciaze. gafacicebiT vum-
zerdi, sad SeeSleboda, yve-
lam vnaxeT, rac moxda. es ra
vnaxe, ra ambavi iyo, kaco.
__ pprreesskkoonnffeerreenncciiaazzee??
_ diax, batono, diax. vin
iyvnen is xalxi, Jurnalistebi
erqvaT imaT? sad iyaviT, ra-
tom ar CandiT, magaliTad,
Tqven, anda jaba xubua, sxva
patiosani Jurnalistebi?
__ bbaattoonnoo lleelliikkoo,, TTqqvveennii
aazzrriiTT,, rraattoomm aaRRmmooCCnnddaa zzooggii-
eerrTTii JJuurrnnaalliissttii iimm ddRReess iivvaa-
nniiSSvviillssaa ddaa xxaallxxss SSoorriiss bbaa-
rriieerriiss,, ddaammaabbrrkkoolleebblliiss rrooll-
SSii?? rraattoomm CCaaddggnneenn SSuuaaSSii,,
TTqqvveennii aazzrriiTT??
_ imitom rom, mTavroba,
xelisufleba, parlamenti kar-
gad xvdeba safrTxis seriozu-
lobas, radgan maTi arsebobis
vada TandaTan iwureba. vinc im
dRes ivaniSvils Seupovrad
utevda, ase vTqvaT, yvela aris
gamZRari fuliT am xelisuf-
lebisgan, zogi farulad, zo-
gi _ aSkarad.
rom laparakobdnen, ivaniS-
vilma fuli ruseTSi iSova da
amitom ruseTis kaciao. fuli
taSkentSi rom eSova, biSkek-
Si, anda sxva planetaze, ras
ityodnen maSin?! ivaniSvili
ucxoplaneteliao?!
gaminawyendebian am simarT-
lisTvis is Jurnalistebi Tu
ara, sul ar mainteresebs _ I
arxisTvis, `rusTavi-2~-sTvis,
`imedisTvis~ arasdros mimicia
interviu da arc vapireb, si-
marTle Tu gindaT.
__ JJuurrnnaalliissttmmaa uunnddaa ddaassvvaass
kkiiTTxxvvaa,, aammiiss ggaammoo ggaabbuuttvvaa aarr
SSeeiiZZlleebbaa,, bbaattoonnoo lleelliikkoo..
_ gasagebia, Tqven Jurna-
listi xarT da mxars uWerT
kolegebs, magram is simarTle,
rac unda hqondes Jurna-
lists, vamCnev, rom ara aqvs
yvelas.
ki, aucilebelia mZafri Se-
kiTxvebi, magram gaaCnia dros,
viTarebas, situacias. ivaniS-
vils jer araferi dauSavebia
iseTi, mtrad rom gadaekidos
vinme da jibrSi Caudges.
Jurnalistebi im dRes
yvavebis xrovas hgavd-
nen, romlebsac sadRac
sakbilo egulebodaT.
es igivea, cxens rom
ver miswvde da una-
girs dauwyo cema. sa-
lanZRavi da jibrSi
Casadgomi saqarTvelo-
Si cotaa?
rogorc gavige,
ivaniSvili apirebs
qarTul operas Zveli
dideba daubrunos. me
vici, rogor imarTeba
metropoliten-opera,
kovengardeni, la ska-
la, imaT veravin dau-
rekavs da ubrZanebs:
dRes es speqtakli ga-
uSvi, xval _ meoreo.
robiko sturua Teat-
ridan imitom daiTxo-
ves, rom gza gaeTavisuflebi-
naT im idioturi `qeTo da ko-
tesTvis~, romelsac me ukve
vuwode `qeTo da kutu~. vis
ra jandabad unda is uazroba,
repertuarSi yoveldRe miyo-
lebiT rom aris Casmuli.
davaneboT Tavi sisuleeebs.
gamovfxizldeT da Cvens saqmes
mivxedoT. daanebon am e.w. opo-
zicionerebma ivaniSvils Tavi,
nu aqvT kudi yavarze gadebu-
li, arafris maqnisi araa arc
erTi da nu iqaCebian. arasapar-
lamento da saparlamento
opozicia erTnairia TiTqmis
_`me TviTon~ Tu `Sen Tvi-
Ton~, partiaa axla es? saxe-
li Seucvlia axlaxan, magram
es ar uSvelis magaT. TorTla-
Ze, rom aris kidev, es kacobis
anomalia, esa...
Saliko, valiko dayvela gaCumdes da vi-sac rogor SeuZlia,ise dadges axla iva-niSvilis gverdiT, er-Ti saqmisTvis _ sa-qarTvelosTvis.
iranda kalandaZe
Saliko, valiko da yvela gaCumdesda visac rogor SeuZlia, ise
dadges ivaniSvilis gverdiT...
ixileT `saerTo gazeTi~
internetSi
www.saertogazeti.netSSeemmooggvviieerrTTddiiTT FACEBOOK-zzee
21saerTo gazeTi#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.
nacionali vaiJurna-
listebis sawyalobe-
li RavRavisa da
wkmutunis fonze ra
adamianurad da bunebrivad ga-
isma ivaniSvilis Rimilnarevi,
laRi fraza tripolskis mi-
marT: ”e, biWo, Sen mainc gaCer-
di, ra!” es epizodi arasodes
damaviwydeba.
Temur iakobaSvilma
Tqva„samoqalaqo sa-
zogadoeba dRes uf-
ro sustia, vidre igi
revoluciamde iyoo“, mgoni,
nela-nela esec ipareba miSas
navidan! :)))))
ubralod, roca ambo-
ben, quCis saprotes-
to aqciebi ar gvin-
dao, Zaan ucnauria.
demokratiuli brZola pro-
testis mraval formas icnobs.
vinmes xom ar hgonia, rom par-
lamenti ufro mSvidobiania
vidre quCa? me ganaxebT ramde-
nime magaliTs, sadac kargad
Cans, rom rig SemTxvevaSi, par-
lamentSi ufro didi Setakebe-
bi xdeba, vidre quCaSi
Cemi azriT, quCaSi
gamosvlis logikuri
droa saparlamento
arCevnebi, Tu nacebi
ayalbeben da imarjveben, quCa
gardauvalia. oRond am quCas
keTriviT nu vuyurebT, quCac
demokratiis iseTive gamovli-
nebaa, rogoric parlamenti.
Tavs gvaxvevs nacistur-propa-
gandistuli manqana, rom quCa
cudia da borotebaa. cudi qu-
Ca ki ar aris, aramed sisxlis-
Rvra, romelic, SeiZleba, na-
cisturma reJimma moawyos!
me megona rom, sazo-
gadoeba Seqmnil si-
tuacias sworad ga-
moiyenebda, wina wle-
bSi daSvebul Secdomebs gaaa-
nalizebda da mis gamosworebas
Seecdeboda, nacvlad ki erTi
Tvea ukve imaze vdaobT, aqvs
nakli biZina ivaniSvils Tu
ara...
ciyvebiviT borbalSi vtri-
alebT da, rogorc vatyob, ki-
dev didxans vitrialebT...
Tu xedav, rom adami-
anSi yvelaferi ada-
mianuri pirutyvma
Cakla da mxolod pi-
rutyvuli instinqtebiT cxov-
robs. mxolod Wama-moneleba
ainteresebs da ar aRelvebs ra
fasad da visi. mxolod piru-
tyvuli vnebebiT cxovrobs, sa-
dac moundeba da visTanac mo-
undeba..dorbli da cingli er-
Tnairad gasdis... aseTi adamia-
nisadmi ra grZnoba unda gagiC-
ndeT qarTvelebo, qristiane-
bo..unda SegezizRoT Tu unda
SegecodoT? (miTumetes Tu
dafiqrdebiT ratom gaxda is
aseTi an rogor moxvda iq sa-
dac aris). Tqveni azri main-
tersebs: zizRi Tu sibralu-
li?
dRes momiyvnen erTi
saintereso ambavi qa-
rTu bankTan ganviTa-
rebul movlenebze.
vakis filialSi 2 dRis win
moxuci qalbatoni mdgara, vi-
Rac axalgazrda misula da
ukiTxavs _ qalbatono, ramiT
xom ar dagexmaroT, angariSis
gaxsna Tu gnebavT, dagexmarebi-
To, qalbatonma upasuxa: – sam-
wuxarod, fuli ar maqvs, Svi-
lo, Torem Zalian minda anga-
riSis gaxsnao, am axalzrdam
sakuTari jibidan dado fuli
da angariSi gauxsna ucnob
qalbatons `qarTu bankSi~. p.s.
es fanatizmi ar aris. es rwme-
naa, rwmena ukeTesi momavlisa
– rwmena qarTuli ocnebis re-
alobisa.
sayovelTao daumor-
Cileblobis gamocxa-
deba upriani iqneboda
momxdari ubedurebis
momdevno dReebSi an 26 maiss
momxdar darbevis Semdgom, mag-
ram, roca qveyanaSi gamoCnda
miSas sapirwone Zala ivaniSvi-
lis saxiT, romelmac Riad ga-
nacxada araviTari mitingebi
xelisuflebis Sesacvlelad,
aramed mxolod arCevnebio, ra-
tom apirebT areulobis Semo-
tanas maSin, roca swored are-
uloba awyobs miSas da mis
xrovas, iqneb dafiqrdeT, rom
Tqven avtomaturad xdebiT ia-
raRi miSas xelSi, xalxis da-
sasjelad da miSas wisqvilze
wylis damsxmelad.
SemogvierTdi
facebook-zze
`saerTo gazeTi~
xalxis azriT
Face
book
Face
book
Face
book
Face
book
Face
book
Face
book
Face
book
Face
book
Face
book
Face
book
Face
book
oriode dRis win veris baRSi
sazogadoebriv-politikuri gaerTi-
aneba `sruliad saqarTvelos xsnis
erovnuli frontis~ riggareSe sa-
gangebo yrilobaze gaxldiT miwve-
uli, sadac `frontis~ mier Ca-
tarebuli sociologiuri gamoki-
Txvis Sedegebi gvamcnes.
kiTxva: _ vis airCevdiT winam-
ZRolad, vis andobT qveynis marT-
vis arsebuli sistemis da xeli-
suflebis axliT Secvlas; Tu,
darCes arsebuli sistema am xeli-
suflebiT?
gamokiTxvis Sedegebiase gadanawilda: _ 1. sa-xelisuflebo (saakaSvi-li, bokeria, ugulava...) _7%; 2. saxelisufleboopozicia (TargamaZe, al-
asania...); 3. radikaluriopozicia (burjanaZe, ga-CeCilaZe, sanikiZe...) _0,4%; 4. naTelaSvili Sal-va _ 1%;; 5. opoziciuri in-teligencia (gafrindaS-vili, CxartiSvili, xaWa-puriZe) 6. ivaniSvil-iva-naSvili an misi partia-gaerTianeba _ 17%; 7. aka-ki jorjaZe _ 62%; 8. ara-vis _ 10%
martivi gamoTvlaa, ra procen-
tebic darCa, gadaanawileT maTze,
romelTac procentebi ar mivuwere,
_ mapatieT da, e.w sociologiuri
kvleviT miRebulma procentebma ise
gamaognes, im pawawunebs veRar `Ca-
vuRrmavdi.~
faqtia, baton akakis xelT upy-
ria ori kviris manZilze gamokiTx-
vaSi monawileTa mier Sevsebuli
blankebi, magram vin arian gamo-
kiTxulebi? _ 62%-is Semxedvares
iseTi azri gamiCnda, rom isini ba-
toni akakis gaerTianebis wevrebis
axlobel-naTesavebi unda iyvnen. Ce-
mi saqmianobidan gamomdinare yvela-
nair socialur jgufTan Tu cal-
keul pirTan miwevs urTierToba, _
ra vqna, Tuki udides umravleso-
bas, araTu xsenebuli sazogadoeb-
riv-politikuri organizacia, ba-
ton akakis pirovnebis Sesaxeb ar
smeniaT araferi...
rogorc ityvian, `es maTi prob-
lemaa~, magram 1 noembrs specialu-
rad gamocemuli (aseTi warwera
aqvs) `sityva~ #7 rom wavikiTxe,
pirskata meca, _ batoni akaki uc-
naurad akavSirebs erTmaneTTan sa-
kuTar misias da qarTveli eris ar-
Cevans: fuli Tu ufali?
`fizikurad Seiqmna piroba, Ti-
Tqos `iqiT~ pirispir dadgnen saa-
kaSvili da ivaniSvili, da TiTqos
maT Soris unda gakeTdes arCevani,
ase xdeba am Temis `aJitireba~; mag-
ram, sinamdvileSi ers, qveyanas,
qarTvelobas asarCevi gvaqvs ufro
didi, ufro mniSvnelovani: fuli,
Tu ufali?~
gasagebia, rom fulSi ivaniS-
vil;i igulisxmeba, magram vin aris
Sefaruli uflis saxelqveS, vin
moiazreba uflis sityvis momta-
nad? _ patriarqi rom ar igulis-
xmeba, cxadia, samoqalaqo-politi-
kur sarbielzea saubari.
batoni akaki brZanebs, maisis
bolos gancdili marcxis Semdeg
da manamdec, gvpirdebodnen seqtem-
berSi gamoCenas, moalparakebebic
maSin ganvaaxloTo, magram saerTod
gaqra asparezidan `radikaluri
opozicia~, politikuri arena
mTlianad mosufTavdao. oqtombris-
Tvis, roca ukan movbrundi (uarvh-
yavi Cemi naTqvami `davamTavre~ da
sofelSi wavedi) da mzad vi-
yaviT eri arCevanisTvis, sa-
gangebo yrilobac davniSneT,
ivaniSvilic gamovida brZo-
lis asparezzeo, _ ras niS-
navs es ganacxadi, ivaniSvili
anu fuli daupirispirda
jorjaZes, anu ufals? _ sxva
araferi ikiTxeba amaSi...
`pirdapir, SiSvlad ga-
moCnda miliardeli, dRemde
xalxSi mxolod mecenatad
cnobili pirovneba sakmaod
Tamami, ambiciuri gancxadebe-
biT da daisva sakiTxi: an sa-
akaSvili da misi reJimi, an
erTi ivaniSvili, romelic am-
bobs: CemTan modiT, me gada-
garCenT! _ satyuara am dros,
ra Tqma unda, fulia!~
rogorc maxsovs, ufali fulSi
ki ar xedavs borotebas, aramed
fulis borotad gamoyenebaSi...
`ar dgas sakiTxi, saakaSvili Tu
ivaniSvili, es orive erTi mxarea
sxvadasxva pirovnebiT warmodgenili.
vimeoreb: pirovnulad ivaniSvilTan
araviTari pretenzia ar maqvs, piri-
qiT, mivesalmebi mis nabijs, Tumca
ver getyviT, icis Tu ara man, raSi
gayo Tavi. Tu icis (me mgonia icis!),
maSin es sxva salaparako Temaa... mTa-
varia, eri, qarTveloba mivxvdeT, ra
TamaSia, droSi ra movlenasTan
gvaqvs saqme, politikur avanscenaze
gamosuli yvela `mxsneli~ ratom
iTxovs Cvens mxardaWeras~, _ kiTx-
vas svams batoni akaki.
nuTu vinmes, sadme gaugonia an
unaxavs erTi kacis gaerTianeba? ba-
toni akakic xom saqarTvelos mo-
saxleobis mxardaWeras iTxovs, Ta-
namoazreebs ikrebs, maS raSia saq-
me? garda amisa, Tu `esalmeba~
ivaniSvilis gamoCenas, iqve ratom-
Ra `emSvidobeba?~
`fulze da erT fulian adami-
anze nu avagebT Cvens momavals!~ _
lozungiviT styorcna gazeTis
mkiTxvels batonma akakim.
momiteveT, Tu azrobriv wyobas
erTgvarad areulad iRebT, gorma-
xebian ukidegano iluziis velze
davqrivar baton akakisTan erTad,
miTumetes, rom batoni akaki fl-
obs saidumlos, xsnis ra gzas da-
vadgeT, magram ar amxels...
baton akakis ar emeteba pativ-
cemuli ivaniSvili (b-iZina!) SarSi
gasaxvevad da gasawirad, miTumetes,
rom icis, igi ar aris mxsneli.
`mdidars~ gadasawyveti hqonia, da-
dges xalxTan Tu xalxi miixmos da
ultilatumis stilSi arCevanis
saSualeba misces, uTxras: memsaxu-
reT, qveyana CamabareT da safasurs
miiRebT.
`drois moTxovna aseTia: yovel
`savles~ SeuZlia iqces `pavled~;
`erovnuli frontis~ kari Riaa
yvelasTvis! ras izams batoni biZi-
na?... _ vfiqrob, safiqrali masala
miveciT, Tu waikiTxa man guldas-
miT Cveni gazeTi Tavisi `mrCevele-
bisgan~ ganmartoebiT.~
amgvari msjeloba dapatiJebas
unda waagavdes, ara? _ magram aqve
gvaxsenebs batoni akaki, rom biZina
ivaniSvili patarkaciSvili _ kvan-
triSvilis duetis bania, `trios~
wevri da kidev erTxel gvafrTxi-
lebs, ar gavcvaloT samSoblo
fulze. amas isev is mosdevs, rom
araferi iqneboda ufulo ivaniSvi-
li da, rom `erovnuli frontis~
kari Riaa yvelasTvis da yvelas
yvelafrad gadaqceva SeuZlia.
ra Tqma unda, yvelas SeuZlia
ganicados metamorfoza da sxvaTa-
Soris, `erovnuli frontis~ karSi
Seusvleladac...
arian adamianebi, Cveni sazoga-
doebis wevrebi, romlebic interes-
debian, ratom ambobs batoni jor-
jaZe, rom mis sagangebo yrilobas
`daamTxvia~ ivaniSvilma sakuTari
`politikuri vnebebis~ gamomzeure-
ba da ratom ar unda CaTvalon,
rom piriqiT, jorjaZem daamTxvia
Tavisi yriloba swored rom sa-
gangebod ivaniSvilis gamoCenas?
moqalaqeebs ainteresebT, 1 no-
embers, roca ivaniSvils preskon-
ferencia hqonda daniSnuli, jor-
jaZem icoda amis Sesaxeb Tu iva-
niSvilma icoda rom misi ganmaqiqe-
beli gazeTis specnomeri gamodio-
da 1-Si da specialurad daamTxvia?
moqalaqeebi kiTxvas svamen: _
jorjaZis gaerTianebas rom hkiTxo,
yvelafers daificeben, xelisufle-
basTan ra kavSiri gvaqvso, magram
sakiTxi ase dgas, _ kavSiri gaqvs
Tu ara, arsebuli xelisuflebis
saqmes rom akeTeb, xom faqtia? Se-
iZleba, ar mogwondes viRac, am
SemTxvevaSi ivaniSvili, magram misi
`armowonebis~ gamo xelisuflebis
saqme unda akeTo?
`frontis~ wevrebi (maT kreba-
zec daswrebuli var), ise nTqavdnen
batoni akakis yvela sityvas, vgoneb
transSi iyvnen Cavardnilebi...
vfiqrob, asec ar SeiZleba Ta-
namoazreTa gameteba, codvani arian,
miTumetes, raionebidan Camovidnen,
gaisarjnen, daixarjnen...
maia WeliZe
fuli Tu `ufali~,saxelad akaki?!
akaki jorjaZe _ 62% :-)
22 saerTo gazeTi #44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.
`am reJimis winaaRmdeg
brZolas viwyebT ara civi
iaraRiT, aramed ufro Zlieri
iaraRiT _ gonebiT, guliT,
saqmiT~ _ mimarTa filarmoni-
aSi sagangebod Sekrebil
xalxs nana guluam..qalbatoni nana ruseTSi
moRvawe biznesmenis mindia gu-
luas daa. Tavad mindia saqar-
TveloSi ramdenime Tvis win
Camovida, Tumca aeroportSi
daakaves da samSobloSi dab-
runebis saSualeba ar misces.
ruseTidan daxmarebis uflebac
CamoarTves: 100 mln.-ian inves-
ticiaze, rasac gulua soflis
meurneobis aRorZinebaSi aban-
debda, saakaSvilis xelisuf-
lebam uari Tqva.
sxvaTa Soris, gulua ru-
seTSi dafrTianebuli zogier-
Ti biznesmenisgan imiTac gamo-
irCeva, rom samSobloSi Camos-
vlisa da dabrunebis survili
gauCnda.
Tavad fesvebs mowyvetili
Tanamemamuleebis nugeSi Seiqna
da moskovSi qarTul saTvis-
tomo `iberias~ Caudga saTave-
Si. uSurvelad patronobda,
materialurad exmareboda Ti-
Toeul qarTvels. axla saakaS-
vilis Cinovnikebisagan ufle-
baayrili, konkretuli mizezis
gareSe moqalaqeobaCamorTmeu-
li, mainc ar kargavs imeds.
saqarTveloSi ki mindia
guluas dawyebul saqmes misi
da-nana gulua Caudgeba saTave-
Si. ai, am axali saqmis irgv-
liv iyo ramdenime dRis win
filarmoniisTvisac ki uCveu-
lo xalxmravloba. qarTvelo-
ba `ganaxlebuli saqarTvelos~
imediT Seikriba.
foieSi Jurnalistebi gadi-
gamodiodnen, e.w. cnobad saxe-
ebs eZebdnen. sanam media `sak-
bilos~ dasdevda, Sexvedris
maspinZels Tadarigi daeWira
da iqve buterbrodebiT, namcx-
vriT, tkbileuliT, gaziani
sasmeliT eloda mozRvavebul
xalxs.
e.w. `prezentacia~, (rogorc
am bolo dros partiebis da-
fuZnebas vuwodebT,) `xorumiT~
gaixsna. qarTul cekvas himni
mohyva. himns simRera `qris-
teSobaze~, rac ansambl `Tu-
TarCelas~ gogonebma imdenad
mSobliurad, imdenad emociu-
rad damuxtulebma Seasrules,
isedac erTi ideiT _ `saqarT-
velos ganaxlebiT~ Sekrebi-
lebs qarTuli ZarRvi kidev
erTxel samSoblos gancdiT
SeutokdebodaT. piradad Cemze
darbazSi Cemi kuTxis xalxis-
megrelebis saubaric moqmedeb-
da emociurad (imedia, qsenofo-
biad ar CameTvleba) rogorc
gairkva, organizatorebs afxa-
zeTidan devnilebisTvisac moe-
yaraT Tavi. bolos da bolos,
am tkivilgamovlil xalxsac
miaqcies yuradReba-meTqi, gavi-
fiqre. Sexvedra dima jaianma
gaxsna. is iyo am krebis konfe-
ransie.
dima jaiani, mmssaaxxiioobbii
`̀ssaaeerrTToo ssaaxxaallxxoo wwiinnaaaaRRmmddeeggoo-
bbiiss mmooZZrraaoobbiiss~~ wwaarrmmoommaaddggeenneellii::
_ `Cqimi jima, cota gvi-
Wirs, magram mainc davbrunde-
biT~ _ jansuR Carkvianis leq-
siT gaamxneva stumrebi.
poetma erekle saRli-anma rusofobiis winaaRmdegacisaubra da SeniSna, ruseTSi
moRvawe qarTveli biznesmene-
bis araerovnulobaSi dadana-
Sauleba, iseTive sibece iqne-
boda, Tavis droze iliasTvi-
sac Tergdaleuloba gvesayve-
durao. `politikaSi avtori-
tets ar warmovadgen. Tumca
mainc vityvi, dRes, yvela re-
sursi unda SevkriboT saqarT-
velosTvis. mivesalmebi nana
guluas partiis dafuZnebas,
aseve mivesalmebi batoni biZi-
nas politikaSi mosvlas. ama-
sac vityvi, mtrebis survilis
miuxedavad, im daxmarebebis da
`grantebis~ miuxedavad, rasac
gvawvdian, yvelam icodes, sam-
Soblos ver Cagvadebineben. sa-
qarTvelos ar gavyidiT~
rreeJJiissoorrii levan anjafa-riZe:: __ `sakuTar Tavs da
Tqven, qarTvelebo, gilocavT
iseTi partiis Camoyalibebas,
romelic sabolood daZravs am
gayinul realobas. `ganaxlebu-
li saqarTvelo~ TiToeuli
qarTvelis xsna da imedi iqne-
ba. dReis amas iqeT, aRaraso-
des vnaxav Cems xalxs damfr-
Txalsa da SeSinebuls. saqar-
Tvelos namdvilad sWirdeba
ganaxleba~
reJisorma partiis simbo-
likazec isaubra da SeniSna:
alamze gamosaxul ferebs rac
Seexeba: TeTri-sispetakis, zne-
obis, lurji-Cveni Savi zRvis,
xolo oqrosferi- im terito-
riebis simbolod SeirCa, ra-
sac jerjerobiT ver vakont-
rolebT. Tumca maT dakargvas
verafriT SeveguebiTo. `TiTo-
euli Tqvengani uzomod miy-
varxarT~ _ saubris bolos ga-
mogvicxada wuTis win `gapo-
litikosebulma~ reJisorma.
simbolikis ganmartebis me-
re, Sexvedra isev klasikur,
oRond ukve moWarbebulad
zeoficialur stilSi gagr-
Zelda. Cans, maspinZlebs undo-
daT sakuTar gulwrfelobaSi
stumrebic daerwmunebinaT da
partiis programa, wesdeba, de-
legatTa sia, ase gansajeT,
`ganaxlebuli saqarTvelos~
wevrebis kenWisyra sul `pata-
kiT~ Cagvabares. roca jeri
gamgeobis wevrTa arCevaze mid-
ga, 5 piris SemadgenlobiT va-
kompleqtebTo, darbazis ukana
rigebidan TiTqos erTdrou-
lad ixuvles- xuTi ar varga,
xuTi cudi ricxviao. maSin
yrilobis Tavmjdomare valeri
gabeliam `eqspromtad~ Seageba
winadadeba-kargi, problema ar
aris, Svidkaciani iyos gamgeo-
bao. hoda, axali wevrebis war-
dgenac aucilebeli Seiqna.
darbazma myisierad moifiqra
kandidatebi: irakli qardava
da giorgi vaniSvili. valeri
gabeliam vaniSvilis nacvlad,
ivaniSvili gamoacxada. -ivaniS-
vilic kargi iqneboda-enamosw-
rebulad ixumra viRacam dar-
bazidan.
bolos da bolos, partiis
Tavmjdomarec wargvidgines.
axalgazrda, energiuli qalba-
toni swrafad gamoCnda dar-
bazSi da emociurad damuxtu-
li sityva Seageba stumrebs.
nana gulua:: `̀ggaannaaxxlleebbuu-
llii ssaaqqaarrTTvveellooss~~ TTaavvmmjjddoommaa-
rree::
_ `var qarTveli deda, qar-
Tveli mecnieri. es regaliebic
ki Cemi samSoblos gadarCenis-
Tvis sakmarisi ar aRmoCnda.
kidev ufro metad miyvars Ce-
mi saqarTvelo da miviRe qvey-
nis gadarCenisaTvis sapasuxis-
mgeblo gadawyvetileba.
Rrmad mwams, Cven erTad me-
tis gakeTeba SegviZlia. zogi-
erTebs hgoniaT, rom saqarTve-
los ayvavebas mxolod turiz-
mis ganviTareba uSvelis. sof-
lis meurneobis aRorZinebaSia
saqarTvelos xsna, rwmenadab-
runebuli mSromeli kacia Cve-
ni imedi.
bednieri var, radgan so-
xumSi vcxovrobdi da vswav-
lobdi, Tumca meore mxriv,
ubedurebaa, roca iq Casvlis
ufleba dakarguli gvaqvs,
mjera- droebiT.
saqarTveloSi erTi ubedu-
reba ar gvakmares. samjer da
mravaljer devnilebi xdebian
Cveni Tanamoqalaqeebi. visac ar
geSiniaT, visac Cemebr da Cem-
ze metad uyvars samSoblo,
imaT gasagonad vacxadeb-
viwyebT brZolas qveynis gaTa-
visuflebisaTvis.
TiToeuli mimarTulebiT
gvaqvs konkretuli gegmebi,
konkretuli ideebi. dafinanse-
basTan dakavSirebiTac gansa-
kuTrebuli idea. amitom Zali-
an gTxovT moviTminoT.
Cemi Zma aris Cemi Zma, nana
guluas Zma da is CemTan erTad
aris, rogorc Zma. Tqven ro-
gor ggoniaT, me, SeiZleba myav-
des iseTi Zma, romelic ar
mexmareba?~_
guram fircxalava::mmssaaxxiioobbii `̀ssaaxxaallxxoo kkrreebbiiss~~
wwaarrmmoommaaddggeenneellii ddaa `̀wwiinnaaaaRRmmddee-
ggoobbiiss mmooZZrraaoobbiiss~~ wweevvrrii::
_ `kidev erTi axali par-
tia Seiqmna, Seiqmna qveynisT-
vis, rom bolos da bolos,
gveSvelos.
mivesalmebi yvela partias,
romelic cotaTi, Tu bevrad
win waswevs Cvens saqmes. nana
guluam Tqva, davibrunoT Cve-
ni samSoblo afxazeTio da si-
marTle giTxraT, cremlebi wa-
momcvivda. ratom unda viyoT
Cven usamSoblod? Tanac dau-
mata: samjer devnilebad gadag-
vaqcieso, esec gulze momxvda,
ase ar unda xdebodes saqarT-
veloSi. gaumarjos am parti-
as~
valeri gabelia: _
loialuri da liberaluri mi-
marTulebis partia viqnebiT.
ar aris gamoricxuli biZina
ivaniSvilTanac viTanamSrom-
loT, radgan mis partias didi
avtoriteti aqvs saqarTvelo-
Si. yvela WeSmarit opoziciur
ZalasTan viTanamSromlebT,
oRond fsevdoopoziciasTan _
vera. sxvaTa Soris, ivaniSvi-
lis partiis rigebidan bevri
Cven SemogvierTda. amboben-aq
ufro fasobs Tavisufali
sityva da moqmedebis Tavisuf-
lebac metiao.
__ rraa ffoorrmmiiTT iiqqnneebbaa mmiinnddiiaa
gguulluuaa aamm ppaarrttiiaaSSii CCaarrTTuullii??__
_ batoni mindia jerjero-
biT absoluturad ar aris
CarTuli am partiis saqmiano-
baSi, arc vici, ras izams mo-
mavalSi. partias uSualod
uxelmZRvanelebs misi da, nana
gulua. marTalia, igi politi-
kaSi pirvel nabijebs dgams,
Tumca sakmaod warmatebuli
mecnieria. qalbaton nanas didi
avtoriteti aqvs Tanamemamule-
ebSi. bevri saqvelmoqmedo saq-
me gaukeTebia._
__ ddRReevvaannddeell SSeekkrreebbaazzee
WWaarrbbaadd iiyyoo aaffxxaazzeeTTiiss TTeemmaa,,
ggaaCCnnddaa iimmeeddii-bboollooss ddaa bboollooss,,
ddeevvnniilleebbiiss pprroobblleemmeebbiiTTaacc ddaa-
iinntteerreessddeebbaa vviinnmmee??
_mindia gulua saqarTve-
los teritoriuli mTliano-
bis dacvisaTvis ibrZoda afxa-
zeTSi, mravaljer iyo daWri-
li, mainc gadarCa RvTis nebiT
da devnilis statusiT wavida
ruseTSi.
axla moqalaqeobis prob-
lema aqvs saqarTveloSi. Cven
da CvenTan erTad sruliad
saqarTvelos unda misi Camos-
vla, rom sakuTari SromiT da
ofliT naRvawi daabandos sam-
SobloSi. misi survilia, am
metad mZime yofierebaSi daex-
maros da gverdSi daudges
qarTvel ers .
jerjerobiT mindia gulua
am partias ar afinansebs.
moqalaqeobasac miaRwevs.
amisTvis ukve daiwyo brZola.
Tu mieca saSualeba, saqar-
TveloSi Camova da aucileb-
lad ibrZolebs qveynis ukeTe-
si momavlisTvis. ra Tqma unda,
pirvel rigSi devnilebis
problemebs moagvarebs, aseve
prioritetuli iqneba misTvis
soflis meurneobis aRorZine-
ba.
naTia nodia
da ZmisTvisao, orive ki `ganaxlebuli
saqarTvelosTvis~
ixileT `saerTo gazeTi~
internetSi
www.saertogazeti.netSSeemmooggvviieerrTTddiiTT FACEBOOK-zze
23saerTo gazeTi#44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.
`saerTo gazeTis~ mkiTxvelTa
SekiTxvebs pasuxobs gazeTis
iuridiuli konsultanti, advo-
kati
mTvarisa kevliSvili.
tel.: 2 79 63 91;8 790 60 64 69; 5 93 78 64 69
** ** **
_ ra aris saxelmwifo baJi?
alimentis Sesaxeb sarCeli
Segvaqvs sasamarTloSi. ra rao-
denobis baJi unda gadavixadoT?
_ saxelmwifo baJi es aris
saxelmwifos mier dadgenili
specialuri gadasaxadi, rome-
lic gadaixdevineba moqalaqeTa
mier sasamarTloSi Setanil
sarCelebsa da gancxadebebze da
romlis odenobac gansxvavdeba
imis mixdviT, Tu vin mimarTavs
sasamarTlos da ras iTxovs.
mosarCeleebi alimen-
tis gadaxdevinebis sarCe-
lebze saxelmwifo biuje-
tis sasargeblod sasamar-
Tlo xarjebis gadasaxa-
disagan Tavisufldebian,
samoqalaqo saproceso
kodeqsis 46-e muxlis I
nawilis `a~ qvepunqtis
Sesabamisad.
aqedan gamomdinare,
Tqven alimentis gadaxde-
vinebis sarCelTan dakav-
SirebiT saxelmwifo baJs
ar gadaixdiT.
** ** **
_ ra SemTxvevebSi xdeba sa-
samarTlo xarjebis gadaxdisagan
gaTavisufleba?
_ saxelmwifo biujetis sa-
sargeblod sasamarTlo, xarje-
bis gadaxdisagan Tavisufldebi-
an:
a) mosarCeleebi _ alimentis
gadaxdevinebis sarCelebze.
b) mosarCeleebi-dasaxiCre-
biT an janmrTelobis sxva dazi-
anebiT, agreTve, marCenalis sik-
vdiliT miyenebuli zianis
anazRaurebis sarCelebze;
g) mosarCeleebi-danaSauliT
miyenebuli materialuri zara-
lis anazRaurebis sarCelebze.
d) mxareebi _ ukanono msjav-
rdebis, sisxlis samarTlis pa-
suxisgebaSi ukanonod micemis,
aRkveTis RonisZiebad dapatimre-
bis ukanonod gamoyenebis an ga-
masworebel samuSaoTa saxiT
adinistraciuli saxdelis uka-
nonod dadebis Sedegad moqala-
qisaTvis miyenebuli zaralis
anazRaurebasTan dakavSirebul
sarCelebze;
e) mosarCeleebi _ arasrul-
wlovanTa uflebebis darRvevas-
Tan dakavSirebul sarCelebze.
v) mxareebi, romlebic dadge-
nili wesiT registrirebuli
arian socialurad daucveli
ojaxebis monacemTa erTian baza-
Si da iReben saarsebo Semweobas,
rac dasturdeba Sesabamisi do-
kumentaciiT:
z) mxareebi _ winaswari (Su-
aleduri) gadawyvetilebis saa-
pelacio an sakasacio wesebiT
gasaCivrebisas.
kanoniT SeiZleba gaTvalis-
winebul iqnes saxelmwifo biu-
jetis sasargeblod sasamarTlo
xarjebis gadaxdisagan mxareTa
gaTavisuflebis sxva SemTxveve-
bic.
** ** **
_ ganqorwinebis saqmis gan-
xilvisas dRevandeli samoqala-
qo kanonmdebloba kvlav iTva-
liswinebs Tu ara meuRleTa Se-
sarigeblad vadis daniSvnas?
_ iTvaliswinebs.
ganqorwinebis saqmis ganxil-
visas sasamarTlo iRebs garkve-
ul zomebs meuRleTa Sesarigeb-
lad. mas aqvs ufleba gadados
saqmis ganxilva da meuRleebs
Sesarigeblad dauniSnos vada,
romelic ar unda aRematebodes
6 Tves. Tuki sasamarTlo daad-
gens, rom, miuxedavad am zomebi-
sa, meuRleTa Semdgomi Ta-
nacxovreba da ojaxis SenarCune-
ba SeuZlebelia, maSin igi iRebs
gadawyvetilebas ganqorwinebis
Sesaxeb.
** ** **
_ samoqalaqo saqmis ganxilvi-
sas visgan SeiZleba axna-gganmartebis
miReba?
_ ar SeiZleba axsna-ganmartebis
miReba.
a) iseTi pirebisagan, romlebsac
Tavisi fizikuri naklis an fsiqiku-
ri aSlilobis gamo ar SeuZlia
sworad aRiqvas faqtebi da misces
maT Sesaxeb swori Cveneba;
b) sasuliero pirisa an iseT
garemoebaTa Sesaxeb, romlebic maT
gaandves aRsarebis dros.
g) Tanamdebobis pirisagan iseT
garemoebebze, romelTa Sesaxeb sai-
dumloebis dacvac mis samsaxureb-
riv movaleobaSi Sedis, Tu igi ga-
Tavisuflebuli ar aris aseTi sai-
dumloebis dacvisagan.
** ** **
_ samoqalaqo kanonmdeblobiT,
aRiareba iTvleba Tu ara sakmaris
mtkicebulebad? ras gvetyviT, zo-
gadad, am mtkicebulebis Sesaxeb?
_ erTi mxaris mier iseTi gare-
moebis arsebobis an ararsebobis da-
dastureba (aRiareba), romelzedac
meore mxare amyarebs Tavis moTxov-
nebsa Tu Sesagebels, sasamarTlom
SeiZleba sakmaris mtkicebulebad
CaTvalos da safuZvlad daudos sa-
samarTlo gadawyvetilebas.
saqmisaTvis mniSvnelobis mqone
garemoebis arsebobis an ararsebobis
aRiareba mxares SeuZlia rogorc
zepiri, ise werilobiTi formiT,
saqmis winaswari sasamarTlo gan-
xilvisaTvis momzadebis an am saqmis
sasamarTlo sxdomaze ganxilvis
dros. Tu aRiareba warmodgenilia
werilobiTi formiT, igi daerTvis
saqmes. zepirad gakeTebuli aRiare-
ba Seitaneba sasamarTlo xdomis
oqmSi.
mxares SeuZlia, sasamarTlos
mier gadawyvetilebis gamotanamde
gaaqarwylos (uaryos) Tavisi aRia-
reba, Tu daamtkicebs, rom es aRia-
reba iyo Secdomis Sedegi da ganpi-
robebuli iyo iseTi garemoebiT,
romelic cnobili gaxda misTvis
aRiarebis Semdeg, anda masze fsiqi-
kuri Tu fizikuri zemoqmedebiT,
romelic gamoricxavda mis Tavisu-
fal nebas.
aRiarebis uaryofa sasamarTlom
unda daasabuTos Tavis gadawyveti-
lebaSi.
** ** **
_ dedam anderZiT damitova qo-
neba. gardacvlili myavs da, romel-
sac darCa ori qaliSvili,
SeuZliaT Tu ara Cems disS-
vilebs Semomedavon qonebis
miRebisas.
_ SeuZliaT.
_ Tqven da Tqveni da iT-
vlebodiT dedaTqvenis I ri-
giT memkvidreebad. Tqveni da
gardacvlilia. misi wamomad-
genlebi arian disSvilebi. vi-
naidan, saxeze gvaqvs anderZiT
memkvidreoba da ara kanonismi-
eri, Tqvens disSvilebs SeuZ-
liaT moiTxovon dedamisis,
rogorc I rigis memkvidris
savaldebulo wili. Tqveni da
rom cocxali yofiliyo, is
miiRebda qonebis naxevris naxevars.
am naxevris naxevarze (savaldebulo
wili) pretenzia rom gauCndeT
Tqvens disSvilebs, nu gagikvirde-
baT. kanoni maT amis uflebas aZ-
levs.
** ** **
_ rogor xdeba pensiis daniSv-
na?
_ socialuri dazvevis erTian
saxelmwifo fondSi, Tqveni gancxa-
debis safuZvelze, kompensaciis an
saxelmwifo akademiuri stipendiis
daniSvna moxdeba gancxadebis ward-
genis dRidan.
marCenalis gardacvalebis gamo,
kompensacia iniSneba marCenalis gar-
dacvalebis dRidan, Tu gancxadeba
kompetentur organoSi wardgenili
iqneba gardacvalebidan 3 Tvis vada-
Si. am vadis gasvlis SemTxvevaSi,
kompensacia iniSneba gancxadebis
wardgenis dRidan.
** ** **
_ mamaCemi brmaa. apirebs ander-
Zis daweras rogori moxdeba es?
SeiZleba Tu ara anderZi Sinauru-
li formiT daiweros?
_ Tu moanderZe brmaa (an we-
ra-kiTxvis ucodinari), anderZi
unda Sedges notariusTan sami
mowmis TandaswrebiT, ris Sesa-
xeb unda gakeTdes saTanado Ca-
naweri, romelic waekiTxeba mo-
anderZes. am dros ar SeiZleba
anderZis Camweri da misi wam-
kiTxveli erTi da igive piri
iyosCanawerSi aucileblad unda
iqnas miTiTebuli, Tu vin gaake-
Ta Canaweri da vin waukiTxa mo-
anderZes. Canawers xeli unda
moaweron mowmeebma da daadas-
turos notariusma.
aqedan gamomdinare, brma pirov-
nebis (an wera-kiTxis ucodinari)
mier anderZis Sinauruli formiT
dawera kategoriulad gamoiricxeba.
`saerTo gazeTis~ iuridiuli konsultacia
am bolo periodSi is-
mis braldeba, rom iva-
niSvilma saqarTvelos
omis dawyeba daabrala
preskonferenciaze. sainteresoa
isic, rom arcerTi mxare ar da-
akvirda im terminologias, rac
ivaniSvilma gamoiyena. sxva po-
litikosebisgan gansxvavebiT,
ivaniSvilma Tqva “2008 wlis
saomari moqmedebebi” es ki ukve
gamoricxavs omis dawyebas, rad-
gan saomari moqmedebebi adre
dawyebuli omis gagrZelebaa.
nodiac ki prognoze-
biT gamodis momavali
xelisuflebis perso-
nalur Semadgenlobaze
da pirveli SemTxvevaa, mgoni,
rom veTanxmebi: prezidenti –
alasania, parlamentis Tavmjdo-
mare – usufaSvili, premieri
ivaniSvili. zogma eqspertma
mTavrobis personalur Semad-
genlobaze daiwyo saubari. Za-
lianac kargi. nodias Sesaval-
ma gamacina:”albaToba, rom isini
xelisuflebaSi movlen, ar aris
maRali, magram varaudebi SeiZ-
leba gamovTqvaT” :)
miSam mixalkovis qa-
liSvilis qorwilSi
misvliT da rusuli
romansebis tkbobiT ra
,,satopke” augdo Salvas dar-
dubalasTvis! ise, kalmaxeliZe
rom mivaTxovoT Jirinovskis?
xom xdeboda xolme aseTi po-
litikuri qorwinebebi? daTboba
da Tvalebidan gadmoRvrili
`Cuvstvebi” mere naxeT:)).
miSas preskonferencia
bunebaSi ar arsebobs.
SevardnaZis tradiciu-
li yovelkvireuli
preskonferenciebis Semdeg sa-
qarTvelos prezidents, realu-
rad, preskonferencia ar hqonia.
miSas uyvars monologebi, roca
kiTxvas aravin usvams da rasac
unda, imas laparakobs - TavisT-
vis mierekeba. an uaresi - uyvars
davarcxnili, „Cawyobili“ bri-
fingebi, sadac win mxolod misi
rCeuli sami televiziis daqoqi-
li saTamaSo uzis, Tvalebs ufa-
xulebs da winaswar Camoweril,
aTasjer SeTanxmebul kiTxvebs
usvams. miSa aseTia.
xolo biZina - kaci, rome-
lic aqamde ar Canda da misi
personis Sesaxeb TiTqmis arafe-
ri vicodiT, gacilebiT komuni-
kabeluri da Ria aRmoCnda, vid-
re warmogvedgina. koiotebma
amiT borotad isargebles...
saocreba iciT, ra-
Sia?am aramzadebma im-
dens miaRwies, miliar-
ders xalxi iqiT ux-
dis fuls!:)))eseTi ram kacob-
riobis istorias ar axsovs,
swored amas hqvia borotebis
siyvaruliT damarcxeba!!!
erTaderTi qveyana va-
rT msoflioSi, sadac
cirki araa ukve 3 we-
lia. arada, ramdeni
masxara gamoCnda... am xalxs da-
saqmeba ar unda? amxela audi-
toria, msoflios arc erT
cirks ar Rirsebia arasodes !!!
20 welia msoflio Cvens cirks
uyurebs, Tavisi uTvalavi klo-
unebiT !!! garedan vinc uyurebs,
ecinebaT, Signidan vinc vuyu-
rebT _ ara.
nacebis kvnesa vnaxe da
magaTi Tvalis dafso-
ba, mTel saqarTvelos
ahkides politikuri
yabzoba.
am saakaSvilis naxmar
lamazmanebs raRa eSve-
lebaT, neta, upatro-
nod rom rCebian. miSa
rom qalTan gulaobs da mere
Tavis naTrev qals xelisufle-
baSi myof Cinovniks gaatans co-
lad, Turme es vaJkacoba yofi-
la da ruseTTan dialogi _ ja-
SuSoba.
ra vqna, vaRiareb:saakaSvils da missatanur garemoc-vas me verasodes
Seviyvareb da aqedan ga-momdinare, verc veraso-des vapatieb saqarTve-los gapartaxebas daqarTveli xalxis gabaxe-bas!!! rom vapatio, aba, miTxa-
riT, ra formiT?!!
me ar mainteresebs
lirika da niuanse-
bi!!!!!!! xelisuflebam
unda daiklos fufu-
neba da mixedos xalxs!!! egre
gagrZeleba SeuZlebelia!!!!
xalxs ara aqvs elementaruli
saSualeba kvebis, wamlis, cxov-
rebis!!!!!da CemTvis gaugebaria,
SSeemmooggvviieerrTTddii
facebook-zzee
`̀ssaaeerrTToo ggaazzeeTTii~~
xalxis azriT
24 saerTo gazeTi #44 (173), 09.11-14.11, 2011 w.
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