Whirlwinds INTERVIEWUNCONVENTIONALACTION

8/14/2019 Whirlwinds INTERVIEWUNCONVENTIONALACTION

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Team Colors: An Interview with Unconventional Action 1 of 8Coordinator: Team Colors Publisher: The Journal of Aesthetics and Protest

An Interview with Unconventional ActionTeam Colors

Team Colors: To start, can you give me a rundown of what the organizing you've been

doing has been composed of, what the activities have been, and perhaps anorganizational timeline?

Unconventional Action: We started doing a little bit of organizing around the

conventions locallyjust in the town where we live, and I started to get involved in

conversations with folks up and down the east coast. It became really clear that thenetworks of communication that used to exist between different radical communities inthe early 2000s weren't nearly as strong as they used to be. People were seeing each other

a lot less and feeling a lack in terms of an ability to communicate and plan for theconventions. Folks started talking a little bit about the CLAC model, the collective of

folks in Montreal that did a lot of organizing for the FTAA protests in Quebec city in2001, and we took a lot of inspiration from thatwhat an amazing amount of work can

be done, even with people from far away...

Can you discuss that model a bit?

I don't know super lots about it, but the general inspiration was that the folks involvedwith CLAC were able to do both logistical organizing and tactical organizing, explicitly

as anti-capitalists, from outside of the host city. The general feeling in terms of theconvention protests, was that as anarchists, were a little out of practice at mass

mobilizations, and to make it really great, it would require extensive organizing efforts.We drew from CLAC as a way to be involved and build momentum as collectives of

people outside of Denver or the Twin Cities. Thus, Unconventional Action came to beanetwork of collectives doing various organizing including communicating about national

strategic frameworks, putting together local and regional trainings, and creating actionsand propaganda to contribute to an intentional buildup. The Welcoming Committee talks

a lot in terms of building our capacity, and I see the Unconventional Action network as agood way to increase our local skill-bases while rebuilding our national communication

networkssomething that will serve us well for the convention protests and beyond.

What do you attribute the downturn or die-off of communication networks to?

Largely people not getting together as often for mobilizations as they did in the late 90sand early 2000s. Especially on the east coast, people were in the same spaces more

regularly so it was possible to talk and make plans for the future and see each other often


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In the Middle of a Whirlwind: 2008 Convention Protests, Movement & Movements

www.inthemiddleofawhirlwind.info


enough to follow through on those kind of plans. Lately people just aren't seeing eachother as often, and generally we've been in a really quiet place for the last couple of

years. People are really focused on local projects, on this kind ofcounter-infrastructuralworkless traveling, less big mobilizations.

Can you discuss some of that work you've done locally?

The Unconventional Action collective that Im involved with has spent a lot of time

building the hype. Locally, we had a networking and strategizing consulta fully a yearand a half in advance of the conventions. And weve put a lot of energy into creating

beautiful, insightful resources and generally propagandizing. I feel like that stuff is reallyimportant because people need to believe that others are invested in something to feel like

it can be good. And with us seeing each other less, having less consistent communication,we need other indicators that folks are taking this seriously.

In our organizing efforts directed locally, weve been focusing on skill-building. For thepast eight or so months, weve been hosting a series of monthly workshops that recently

culminated in a weekend long direct action training camp. Weve been trying to focus ourskill-sharing capacity regionally, because having solid ties with anarchists that are

geographically close just makes sense.

How have you approached those projects? How do you outreach, how do you bringpeople in, how do you expand?

Mostly through food (laughs). We have this prison books program here, and there was

sort of a core group of five or six folks that were really committed, showing up forworkdays once a week and putting a lot of energy in to work out the kinks. At some point

somebody decided that we should advertise having a free vegan breakfast before theworkday and now every week the space is overflowing with collective members.

Locally, thats sort of our approach to all outreach: just advertise that there will be food,and good folks are sure to turn up!

In terms of our structure, our collective is just a group of friends that gets togetherinformally to figure out what we want to be doing togetherbut a lot of what we want to

be organizing locally is large, public events.

What's the use of these national mobilizations? What kind of power do you envision being

exerted there?

For the people that come and participate it can be a wonderfully empowering experience.If you're a person who's spent most of their time doing anarchist organizing in one town

or one city, surrounded at most by a couple of dozen anarchistsor a couple ofanarchists if youre from a small townjust the sheer number of people that get together

at a mass mobilization can make you feel like all of the big things we need to do mightactually be possible. If youre a person who feels the daily frustration and pain that living

in this culture provokes, but feels isolated holding a sign at a demonstration, even


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surrounded by thousands, being a part of large-scale participatory direct action to achievesomething can make all those hours of campaigning or voter registration feel silly.

Mass collectivity and mass action can be awe-inspiring when it works.

What's your interaction with people in Denver and Minnesota been like?

I haven't myself been to Denver or the Twin Cities, but I've had a lot of contact with folksin those areas doing organizing with the Welcoming Committee and Unconventional

Denver. As someone who is not in Denver or the Twin Cities, I want to be getting lots ofinput from locals. It just seems logical, since they have much better perspective on whats

going on there and are in many ways much more affected by the organizing that goes intothe conventions. It seems like everyone has been making some efforts to coordinate with

each otherto make sure that the work were all doing is complimentary. Itschallenging however, to stay abreast of all of the work going on in so many places across

the country. I guess good intentions and good faith have to take over where directcommunication leaves off. For me, its less than ideal to have so much communication

happening over the internet or telephone. It feels so impersonal, and its so much easier tohave miscommunications, hurt feelings. But its really the only option when youre

halfway across the country!

Ideally one of the functions of the Unconventional Action network would be to serve as aphysical communications structure for folks that are organizing in the twin cities and in

Denver. Since there are UA collectives scattered throughout the country, if they can all becommunicating with locals, then making an effort to disseminate that info in their

regions, then Welcoming Committee and UA Denver folks dont have to do that work.And I think to some extent that's certainly been happening.

So the goal is to funnel people on the national level into the actions going down in the

twin cities and in Denver? The goal of Unconventional ... is this a process oforganization building nationally? Is UA going to be the next DAN? What's the next step?

Originally there were a couple of Unconventional Action collectives around the country,

and at this point there are dozens of them. Having some kind of moniker to associate oneanother with, it's been easier to find other people organizing for the conventions and to

have a clear way to direct others that are interested. Most of the communicating withinthe UA network has been happening through the listserve and website or through regional

consultas and gatherings that people have hosted under the Unconventional Action name.The collectives are completely autonomous from each other; although there has been

good communication among some of the groups, there is no central coordination or singledirection.

How is this different than the organizing that took place around the WTO to the 2000

RNC? Seems like that's the point at which there was a serious downturn in the amount ofenergy being invested in these large national mobilizations. Particularly the efforts to

shut down summits and conventions through direct action?


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The 2000 RNC in Philly was certainly demoralizing for many participants, but I wouldsay it was because the strategy wasnt thoroughly thought through. I dont think that

marked a downturn in mass mobilization organizing though; it was followed by evenbigger and fiercer mobilizations in Prague, Quebec (which was attended by thousands

from the US, and accompanied by solidarity actions from Buffalo to San Diego to Sao

Paulo), Gothenburg, and Genoa. There was a great deal of energy going into organizingfor the IMF/World Bank protests in late September when the towers fell on 9/11andthe remainder of that energy ended up becoming the first antiwar mobilization, long

before ANSWER and UFPJ.

It would be difficult to compare the 2008 anti-RNC organizing to the buildup to the WTOprotests. I think its fair to say that the latter involved more groups with a general

orientation towards social justice, but that perhaps there is a more explicitly anarchistslant to this organizing. The best point of reference again is probably CLAC, the

explicitly anti-authoritarian group that did long months of preparation (including tourssuch as the RNC Welcoming Committee has done). Other protests of the post-Seattle

eraincluding the 2000 RNCwere more hastily organized. Everyone was so inspiredby Seattle that they wanted to make the next Seattle happen as soon as possible, so

many mobilizations happened without a lot of time to prepare them. When theysucceeded, it was because people felt so much urgency, not necessarily because they had

been organized carefully and over a long period of time.

At least some anarchists have been preparing for the RNC in St. Paul for over a year now.Thats a lot of buildup. Well see how it plays outthe context is very different now,

with much more government repression and many of the older folks who participated inthe spike in mobilizations almost a decade ago now being burnt out. On the other hand,

all the defeats since 9/11Miami, when the cops brutalized everyone, and the 2004RNC, when anarchist participants lacked a concrete goalhave lowered the bar to such

an extent that a defeat by the standards we had in 2000 will be a victory in todayscontext.

From reviewing the website, you refer to this as a possible flashpoint for further activity.

Could you elaborate on that? What do you hope to happen after this, both on the localand national level and what do you see unconventional contributing to further organizing

in the future?

Often, part of the problem with summit organizing is the shortsightedness of it. At theforefront of the idea for Unconventional Action is the desire to look beyond just the

conventions and beyond just the next mobilization after that. The Welcoming Committeedescribes it as building our capacityincreasing our skill-base and our relationships

locally, building up networks regionally, developing our power as a movementnationally. Frankly, I dont know whether or not Unconventional Action will be useful

after this mobilization. People always say that all of the good stuff happens after theworkshop or meetingthat is, its the informal communication, the relationships that are

importantto that extent, maybe its not the Unconventional Action network that isuseful in the long run, but what comes out of it.


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And what is that purpose beyond the one mobilization? For these actions, we generate

listserves and we get to know each other and that builds the infrastructure for anothermobilization. The criticism is that these summits aren't where capitalism happens, and are

rather a dog and pony show where we show up and shut it down, that it's really just

spectacle versus spectacle.

I definitely don't think that the battles are necessarily fought at places like the republican

or democratic conventions, but these are the places where people learn tactics and buildskills, where people get inspiredor learn important, tragic lessons. Places where so

many people come together are one of the ideal sites for future collaborate and toexchange all kinds of ideas. The important thing is maintaining continuity and

connectedness between communities in resistance and to bring those struggles home.Where the sites of 'real' capital exchange happenif you can call anything about

capitalism real.

What's the theory of change that you're working with? What creates change and whatdoes substantive change look like? How do we actually make a concrete difference in the

way that daily life functions?

Obviously that's a huge question and one that I think about a lot. So a brief story toillustrate a point: I was recently on the streets of Philadelphia in front of my friends

house painting a banner. The banner read, Death to hangmen, kings and traitors. Peoplewere walking by, and it was really interesting to see people's reactions. Elderly ladies,

people walking by pushing babies. There was one man in particular who was maybe inhis 50s and looked like he was from Algeria. He read it very carefully and sort of

shrugged his shoulders as if to say yeah, of course. Looking at me, realizing I wasnt surewhat he thought, he just smiled really wide and gave me a big thumbs-up. But then, its

simply not been that controversial in poor neighborhoods of color Ive come from to sayfuck the police and all politicians.

I think about that because I have to say that the change that is substantive comes from

people as they change the way that they relate to the world around them, to the peoplearound them, to the earth we live on. The complicated thing is not in changing people's

attitudes or convincing people of something; it is in creating spaces for people to dothings differently. In a lot of ways we win to the extent that we can create spaces for

people to act the way they actually want to act. Whether that means creating spaceswhere people can actually throw the brick through the Starbucks window or create the

space for people to meet each other across class and race lines and feel comfortableorto quit their job even though they have kids. That's a huge challenge and for me involves

both the construction of local infrastructure and simultaneously making conflict with thepeople who want to make that impossible.

Your position that changing attitudes and consciousness raising is a secondary

question if its a question at all, you address the fact that creating spaces is important.But there are huge coercive mechanisms at play that try to limit those spaces. There's


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necessarily a question of power in that. What does building our sort of power vis a vis theother sort of power look like and how is that accomplished?

A simple answer to a question isn't really going to get at that. At the heart of it we're

powerful to the extent that we have real relationships with other people that we engage in

struggle with. Having those kinds of really connected and healthy relationships is hardbecause we all come to this stuff with a whole lot of cultural baggage and bullshit, andits also really time consuming. I just moved into a new neighborhood a few months ago,

and its a really amazing neighborhood. I like a lot of the people that are on my street,and I've tried to spend time getting to know people. But I have realized that it is a full-

time job just keeping up with whats going on with everybody on my street! We do thisgrocery distribution in our neighborhood; it is one of the ways I keep up with people

because it means I'm seeing them at least once a week. We get donations from grocerystores, we dumpster and get food from various friends, and then we bike it around our

neighborhood to share it with our neighborhoods. Food is one of the simplest ways toconnect with somebody you don't know very well. So through this grocery distribution

I'm getting to know the people not just on my street but in my whole neighborhoodbecause if I'm dropping off groceries at their house I'm checking in with them once a

week. At the same time that I'm doing this, at the top of my street some developers areputting in giant, oh-so-green and fancy condominiums that are going to wreck our

neighborhood. They've just been digging the foundation; they haven't really startedbuilding. People in the area have been working to stop this development, but its been a

slow and difficult campaign. Maybe three weeks ago I found out that one of my favoritehouses of folks that I often drop off groceries to had just been evicted. I didn't know

about it because they live a couple of streets away and word hadn't gotten to me. Wefound out that they got evicted because the landlord was getting pressure from the police

to evict the black people living there and rent to the white college studentspreparingthe neighborhood from the coming onslaught of gentrification. The point of this is, for

me, that building connections is really important, but at the same time we also have to bedevoting time and energy to fighting the motherfuckers that would make it more and

more difficult to keep up with the people that we want to keep up with.

Having said that developing relationships that have some kind of grounding in what'sgoing on for people is how we build power, what's the site of struggle?

In just about any town or city, you can close your eyes and spin around, then open your

eyes and youll be looking at one. In this culture, the question is not where are the sites ofstruggle, but with our limited time, how do we choose? One site is certainly these

counter-infrastructural programs that develop locally. If they really are counter-infrastructural and not just alternative whatevers that can exist happily alongside the

capitalist system while everyone feels good inside about their generosity, they are boundthemselves to become sites of struggle, in conflict with the capitalist power system that

doesnt like to compete. I dont know any better than anyone else about strategically whatis the site that is mostly likely to make it all crumble.


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How do we do that kind of work without recreating a non-profit model or a socialservices model?

One key thing for me is not becoming dependent on anything within the capitalist system.

When we started this grocery program, for instance, we started it because a friend of ours

got to know one of the people that worked in the grocery department at some health foodstore. He started giving us food, simply calling us to pick up boxes whenever they weregoing to throw away food. Then he was calling us multiple times a week, giving us

dozens of boxes of food. It was way more food than we could possibly deal with, and wedecided to figure out how to share with more of our neighbors. It grew to be a fairly large

grocery distribution program, but eventually the manager of the store found out and toldthem they had to stop giving us food. We were like, fuck, what are we going to do? This

person called us back and told us he could only give us food when the manager wasn't in.Then we were getting more food than ever before because other employees were helping

out and pulling food for us. And just when it was becoming really reliable again, the storeclosed. Then we had to scramble to get enough food because all these people are

depending on us for food. At this point, the grocery distribution program has been goingon for two years or more, and we've gone through so many different connections that

have appeared and been wonderful and then totally crumbled.

How is this different from any other charity?

Defining charity isnt simply about figuring out who delivers the food and who receivesit. Its about the relationships, the flow of power between the people on either side

its about whether or not there are sides. With this specific project, the people that workon it recognize that we have the time and resources to gather food and distribute it, and

the people we share with have other resources they share with us. They mow our yardbecause they have a lawn mower and we dont. They invite us over for dinner to share the

food weve brought them. They bring us blankets because the heat in our house breaks.They invite us into their lives, into their families, because we live together in the same

place. We watch their kids or help them in their gardens, they share with us the exquisitestories of this neighborhood, of their lives. We all share so mucheveryone giving,

everyone taking. For me, mutual aid isnt necessarily a direct trade: I bike the cart aroundthis week if you do it next week. My life is big and broad enough and full of enough

abundance to feel safe sharing openly with people, as long as I remember how to openmyself to the wonderful people around me.

No one project on its own is an anarchist project. Its only when the amazing things we

do together are interconnected that we can present a coherent picture of anarchist options.

On the national level, what does an organization or movement look like that has anability to function effectively on that spatial scale? We're certainly not the CNT... how do

you see this mobilization feeding into a process of movement building?

I personally sometimes get very frustrated and feel that this country is too big, even formyself conceptualizing what it looks like, an anarchist movement in the united states. I'm


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pretty excited about the fact that the last couple of years folks have been focusing morelocally and regionally. It seems like ideally the next phase of anarchist activity in this

country would be to balance getting together regularly on a national levelhaving theinspiration that one gets from being surrounded by thousands of other anarchists and

radicalsand still maintaining the kind of long-term counter-infrastructural programs

that have been possible because people have been staying put more for the last couple ofyears. It seems like there could be a lot of excitement coming out of the conventions andgoing into the inauguration, other mass mobilizations, and ongoing campaigns, but also a

lot of that energy will get funneled back into the local and regional levelswhere muchof the crucial engagement happens, just because of the spatial challenges of a country this

size. Even thinking just in terms of this country seems inconsequential when capital is somuch more globalized than ever before. I was recently talking to a bunch of people from

Canada that were saying they were really excited about the convention protests. One ofthem wrote an email to Unconventional Action saying, We know we're probably really

low on your priority list, but what happens in the States effects what happens here, sowe're coming to the convention protests and we want to know more about what's going

on. People really do travel to come to mass mobilizations. In a world where capitalism issuch a globalized power, it seems like people need to be in communication with folks

from other parts of the country and other parts of the world. It is perhaps more of anemotional need than a strategic one, simply to be able to come home and tell all your

friends, You won't believe it but people in this corner of the world are doing a projectjust like ours. Getting that kind of feedback can be a real morale boostand a welcome

change from the isolation we so often feel from each other. There is a lot of value in theexchange of ideas, tactics, skills, resources and materials at national and international

mobilizations like the conventions. Hopefully people will go to the conventions and takea lot home with them.

This isn't making any kind of new statement and critique, but there's a degree of privilege

inherent in having that kind of mobility. With that being the major outlet fordemonstrating and for networking it excludes a lot of people. What's the answer to that?

As with anything, people rely on support from their communities to go out into the world

with the expectation that theyll bring back as much as they can. Some people areconnected to communities with significantly more (race, class, gender) privilege, and

also as with anything, it is the responsibility of those with privilege to do the work toconnect and share with all of us with less.

Recently in the town where I live at some public forums about the conventions, peopletalked about all of the feelings and ideas they had about them. A friend of mine who was

really active in the mass mobilizations at the turn of the century now has a twelve monthold child. She said she wished she could go to the convention protests, but that shes

really interested in organizing something where we live so that people here can feelconnected to whats going on there. We plan on having a debrief altogether so that people

can talk about what happened here and what happened thereso that everyone can hearboth sides. That kind of organizing that works in parallel is an amazing way to spread the

connection that people feel at a mass mobilization and to make it something bigger thanwhat happens in just those cities.

Whirlwinds INTERVIEWUNCONVENTIONALACTION

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