Cardiff Pre LD FG

THE QUALITATIVE ELECTION STUDY OF BRITAIN 2015

Cardiff Pre-Election Leaders Debate Focus Groupconducted April 25th 2015

Transcribed Focus Groups Dataset

Version 1.2

Date of release: 5 October 2015

Principal InvestigatorDr. Edzia Carvalho, University of Dundee

International Co-InvestigatorDr. Kristi Winters, GESIS, Cologne

Funded by British Academy and Leverhulme Trust Small Grant SG142740

and supported by Carnegie Corporation of New York, GESIS-Leibniz Institute (Cologne) and University of Dundee

QESB Contacts

qualesb@gmail.com e.carvalho@dundee.ac.uk kristi.winters@gesis.org

http://qesb.info

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‘QESB’qualesb2015 @qualesb

Cardiff Pre LD FG

READ ME

Transcribed Focus Groups Dataset Version 1.0

On copyright and attribution

Copyright of this transcript belongs to Dr. Edzia Carvalho and Dr. Kristi Winters. Individuals may re-use this document/publication free of charge in any format for research, private study or internal circulation within an organisation. You must re-use it accurately and not present it in a misleading context. You must acknowledge the author, the QES Britain project title, and the source document/publication.

Recommended citation: Carvalho, E. and K. Winters. 2015. 'The Qualitative Election Study of Britain 2015 Dataset', version 1.0. Funded by British Academy and Leverhulme Small Grant SG142740 and supported by GESIS, Carnegie Corporation, and University of Dundee. Available at: http://wintersresearch.wordpress.com

On the transcription

All participants’ names have been changed and any direct or indirect identifiers removed to protect their anonymity

The transcripts in Version 1.0 do not have enhanced data recovery including non-verbal communication. It includes the basic transcription of words said by participants. The participants have been identified through attribution by the Moderator or other participants and by an initial attribution by the investigators. Subsequent versions of the dataset will verify attribution of participants by video identification.

The transcripts in this version also do not include extensive instructions given to participants at the beginning of the groups, introductions by participants, and exchanges between participants and Moderators during exercises.

Initial Transcription by: Just Write Secretarial Services, Belfast, Northern Ireland. Contact: m.mckillen@btopenworld.com

Reporting conventions used

We have used ** to indicate words, phrases or sentences which we could not hear.

Italic font indicates we have taken a guess at a word/name etc.

Words in parentheses {} indicate physical gestures or what can be heard on the tape but cannot be clearly articulated into specific words.

Removal of direct and indirect identifiers are set off with + word +

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Date of focus group: 16 April 2015

Location: University of Cardiff, Cardiff

Moderator 1: Dr. Edzia Carvalho

Moderator 2: Dr. Kristi Winters

Research assistants: Sophie Williams and Gareth Williams

Participants:

2015 Alias Sex

Special Category

Age group Supporter Party Strength Pre Group Post Group Constituency 2015 vote preference

Willem M N 49-56 N NA NA Cardiff LD Cardiff 1Cardiff South and Penarth Y, not which party

Brenda F N 49-56 N NA NA Cardiff LD Cardiff 1 Cardiff West Y, not which partyNatasha F N 34-41 N NA NA Cardiff LD Cardiff 1 Cardiff West Y, not which partyBeverley F Retired 65-72 N NA NA Cardiff LD No Riverside Y, not which partyDele M Student 26-33 N NA NA Cardiff LD No Cardiff Central Y, not which partyHayley F Student 18-25 Y Labour 4 Cardiff LD Cardiff 2 Cardiff Central Y, and party

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ContentsINTRODUCTIONS...............................................................................................................................11

THEME SONG.......................................................................................................................................13

PARTY CONSIDER VOTING HANDOUT..................................................................................................13

Willem.............................................................................................................................................13

Willem.............................................................................................................................................14

Brenda.............................................................................................................................................14

Willem.............................................................................................................................................14

Natasha............................................................................................................................................14

Beverley...........................................................................................................................................14

Beverley...........................................................................................................................................14

Beverley...........................................................................................................................................14

Natasha............................................................................................................................................14

Natasha............................................................................................................................................14

Natasha............................................................................................................................................15

Natasha............................................................................................................................................15

Natasha............................................................................................................................................15

Willem.............................................................................................................................................15

Willem.............................................................................................................................................15

Willem.............................................................................................................................................15

Willem.............................................................................................................................................16

Willem.............................................................................................................................................16

Willem.............................................................................................................................................16

Willem.............................................................................................................................................16

Hayley..............................................................................................................................................16

Willem.............................................................................................................................................16

Brenda.............................................................................................................................................16

Brenda.............................................................................................................................................17

Beverley...........................................................................................................................................17

Beverley...........................................................................................................................................17

Beverley...........................................................................................................................................18

Dele.................................................................................................................................................18

Hayley..............................................................................................................................................18

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Hayley..............................................................................................................................................18

PARTY LEADER HANDOUT...................................................................................................................19

Willem.............................................................................................................................................19

Willem.............................................................................................................................................19

Natasha............................................................................................................................................20

Willem.............................................................................................................................................20

Willem.............................................................................................................................................20

Willem.............................................................................................................................................20

Natasha............................................................................................................................................20

Willem.............................................................................................................................................20

Willem.............................................................................................................................................20

Natasha............................................................................................................................................20

Natasha............................................................................................................................................21

Beverley...........................................................................................................................................21

Beverley...........................................................................................................................................21

Willem.............................................................................................................................................21

Hayley..............................................................................................................................................21

Brenda.............................................................................................................................................21

Hayley..............................................................................................................................................21

Willem.............................................................................................................................................21

Natasha............................................................................................................................................21

Hayley..............................................................................................................................................21

Willem.............................................................................................................................................21

Natasha............................................................................................................................................21

Natasha............................................................................................................................................21

Willem.............................................................................................................................................21

Natasha............................................................................................................................................21

Willem.............................................................................................................................................22

Hayley..............................................................................................................................................22

Willem.............................................................................................................................................22

Hayley..............................................................................................................................................22

Natasha............................................................................................................................................22

Hayley..............................................................................................................................................22

Natasha............................................................................................................................................22

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Willem.............................................................................................................................................22

Natasha............................................................................................................................................22

Willem.............................................................................................................................................22

Brenda.............................................................................................................................................22

Natasha............................................................................................................................................22

Brenda.............................................................................................................................................22

Beverley...........................................................................................................................................22

Hayley..............................................................................................................................................23

Dele.................................................................................................................................................23

Hayley..............................................................................................................................................23

Willem.............................................................................................................................................23

Willem.............................................................................................................................................23

Natasha............................................................................................................................................23

Willem.............................................................................................................................................23

Natasha............................................................................................................................................23

Hayley..............................................................................................................................................23

Willem.............................................................................................................................................24

Brenda.............................................................................................................................................24

Beverley...........................................................................................................................................24

Beverley...........................................................................................................................................24

Willem.............................................................................................................................................24

Natasha............................................................................................................................................24

Dele.................................................................................................................................................24

Hayley..............................................................................................................................................24

Willem.............................................................................................................................................24

Hayley..............................................................................................................................................24

Hayley..............................................................................................................................................24

Natasha............................................................................................................................................24

Natasha............................................................................................................................................25

Brenda.............................................................................................................................................25

Willem.............................................................................................................................................25

Brenda.............................................................................................................................................25

Hayley..............................................................................................................................................25

Beverley...........................................................................................................................................25

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Beverley...........................................................................................................................................25

Willem.............................................................................................................................................25

Willem.............................................................................................................................................25

Brenda.............................................................................................................................................25

Brenda.............................................................................................................................................26

Dele.................................................................................................................................................26

Hayley..............................................................................................................................................26

Natasha............................................................................................................................................26

Beverley...........................................................................................................................................26

Beverley...........................................................................................................................................26

Hayley..............................................................................................................................................26

Willem.............................................................................................................................................27

Natasha............................................................................................................................................27

Natasha............................................................................................................................................27

Beverley...........................................................................................................................................27

Hayley..............................................................................................................................................27

Dele.................................................................................................................................................27

Willem.............................................................................................................................................27

Brenda.............................................................................................................................................27

Natasha............................................................................................................................................27

CAMPAIGN IMPRESSIONS....................................................................................................................28

Beverley...........................................................................................................................................28

Brenda.............................................................................................................................................28

Hayley..............................................................................................................................................28

Willem.............................................................................................................................................28

Willem.............................................................................................................................................28

Natasha............................................................................................................................................29

Dele.................................................................................................................................................29

DEBATES..............................................................................................................................................30

Beverley...........................................................................................................................................30

Natasha............................................................................................................................................30

Willem.............................................................................................................................................30

Natasha............................................................................................................................................30

Beverley...........................................................................................................................................31

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Natasha............................................................................................................................................31

Natasha............................................................................................................................................31

Brenda.............................................................................................................................................31

Hayley..............................................................................................................................................32

Willem.............................................................................................................................................32

Dele.................................................................................................................................................32

THEME SONG.......................................................................................................................................32

Willem.............................................................................................................................................33

Natasha............................................................................................................................................33

Brenda.............................................................................................................................................33

WAS DEBATE FAIR...............................................................................................................................34

WAS DEBATE WELL RUN......................................................................................................................34

WAS DEBATE FAIR...............................................................................................................................34

Brenda.............................................................................................................................................34

Willem.............................................................................................................................................34

Brenda.............................................................................................................................................34

Dele.................................................................................................................................................34

Natasha............................................................................................................................................35

Hayley..............................................................................................................................................35

Dele.................................................................................................................................................35

Natasha............................................................................................................................................35

Brenda.............................................................................................................................................35

Natasha............................................................................................................................................35

Beverley...........................................................................................................................................35

Willem.............................................................................................................................................36

Willem.............................................................................................................................................36

Willem.............................................................................................................................................36

Hayley..............................................................................................................................................36

Dele.................................................................................................................................................36

Beverley...........................................................................................................................................37

WHO STOOD OUT................................................................................................................................37

Willem.............................................................................................................................................37

Hayley..............................................................................................................................................37

Natasha............................................................................................................................................37

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Natasha............................................................................................................................................38

Dele.................................................................................................................................................38

Beverley...........................................................................................................................................38

Beverley...........................................................................................................................................38

Brenda.............................................................................................................................................38

DEBATE GENDER DISCRIMINATION.....................................................................................................38

Natasha............................................................................................................................................38

Willem.............................................................................................................................................39

Hayley..............................................................................................................................................39

WHO UNDERPERFORMED...................................................................................................................39

Willem.............................................................................................................................................39

Willem.............................................................................................................................................39

Natasha............................................................................................................................................39

Natasha............................................................................................................................................40

Hayley..............................................................................................................................................40

Natasha............................................................................................................................................40

Brenda.............................................................................................................................................40

Brenda.............................................................................................................................................41

Hayley..............................................................................................................................................41

Dele.................................................................................................................................................41

DEBATE STRUCTURE............................................................................................................................42

Willem.............................................................................................................................................42

Hayley..............................................................................................................................................42

Willem.............................................................................................................................................42

Hayley..............................................................................................................................................42

Willem.............................................................................................................................................43

Hayley..............................................................................................................................................43

Willem.............................................................................................................................................43

Brenda.............................................................................................................................................43

Natasha............................................................................................................................................43

PERFORMANCE MARKS.......................................................................................................................43

Willem.............................................................................................................................................43

Willem.............................................................................................................................................44

Brenda.............................................................................................................................................44

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Brenda.............................................................................................................................................44

Natasha............................................................................................................................................44

Dele.................................................................................................................................................44

Hayley..............................................................................................................................................44

Willem.............................................................................................................................................44

Dele.................................................................................................................................................44

Beverley...........................................................................................................................................44

Brenda.............................................................................................................................................44

Willem.............................................................................................................................................44

Willem.............................................................................................................................................45

Dele.................................................................................................................................................45

Hayley..............................................................................................................................................45

Natasha............................................................................................................................................45

Brenda.............................................................................................................................................45

Beverley...........................................................................................................................................45

Willem.............................................................................................................................................45

Hayley..............................................................................................................................................45

Dele.................................................................................................................................................45

Natasha............................................................................................................................................45

Brenda.............................................................................................................................................45

Dele.................................................................................................................................................45

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Transcript

INTRODUCTIONS Moderator 1: I think what I’ll do is I'll start with the consent form because that's very important for us. The consent form tells you that you know what the project is about and you've been given the opportunity to ask any questions about the project. So if you do have any questions, please do ask me. The other thing the consent form says is your participation is voluntary. What that means is that you have the choice not to participate, that you have agreed to participate and you also have agreed to be recorded by audio and by video for the duration of your participation. You can withdraw at any time and you don't need to explain to us why you are withdrawing, but if you do withdraw we will use the information that you have provided, so whatever you have spoken till then. Any researcher who would like to use the information will have to agree to keep it confidential. All your information will be anonymised, so not just your names but, say, while you are speaking you mention where you live, say the street where you live. So what we will do is we will say a street in Cardiff when we transcribe the audio. Anything that identifies you will be anonymised. I think there's a few other things on my list here which are also in your consent form, and the first of those is we are asking you to give us copyright of your words. Now, the reason we are doing that is because we are going to use what you say in our publications and we don't want to keep coming back to you for permission. Five years or 10 years down the line we don't want to send you an email saying 'can we please have permission to use this line that you said in 2015?' We're not going to make any money out of this copyright; academics very rarely do, if at all, actually. So don't worry about us making a buck at your expense. We have asked you to select the option to be kept informed of our research, and just to let you know we're not going to plague you for 20 years from now; it's probably just going to be until the next election. So in the next five years if you would like us to keep you informed of any publications, any place where this research is going to be mentioned or used, then just tick that box and we will send you an email for the next five years, and no more, not after that. And yeah, please don't forget to sign the sheet on the flipside of that consent form. So if you just write your

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name and sign it, that's the all important bit. All your documentation, just keep it together and we'll just collect it at the end with your badge so we know who's information belongs to whom.

So how this is going to work, we will have about 50 to 55 minutes of a focus group now, then the Leaders' Debate begins at 8 so we'll give you some time to take a break, grab some food, before the Leaders' Debate begins, and it's for 90 minutes. So you will be seated around this table, grab your snacks and drinks and then we will ask you to jot down your ideas about the debate while it's happening. Once the debate is over we will give you a little bit of time to freshen up then we'll have another 30 minutes or so of the post debate session. So we're hoping to be finished by 10; we will send you off by 10. And so it should be about two hours. I hope that's okay for everyone. Just to make things a little quicker for us I'm going to be circulating this very quickly. Basically, what I would like you to do is write your name and sign, and it's basically saying that you got the £40. Now, you haven't got £40 right now, {laughter} and I am recorded saying that you haven't got the £40, but at the end we can just give you the money and you don't have to spend more time waiting to sign it and so on. So it's just to save a little time.

And while you're doing that I also want to just give you an idea of what a focus group is, because I don't know if you have participated in one before. We are really interested in your opinions, and there are no right or wrong opinions. So if somebody around the table says something, say, on education and they think that the Conservative education policy is brilliant, and you think, "no, I don't agree with that." So don't be hesitant to disagree with somebody; you don't have to agree with them. So you can say, "I have something to say, I actually don't agree with your opinion on the Conservative education policy, and this is why." So we are looking for a diversity of opinions. We don't necessarily want you to agree where you don't feel like you agree. If you naturally agree on everything, that's fine as well. So we don't want to force you to disagree {laughter}; just give us your opinions, that's the essential thing for us, that we create a space where you are free to speak your mind, whatever it is.

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THEME SONGModerator 1: Okay, so let me start with something slightly fun, I hope, and what I would like you to do is jot down your answer on the flipside of one of the sheets and we'll get back to it at the end of the focus group. So if something strikes you as we are speaking, just jot it down we will get back to it at the end.

So the question is, if you were to give the current government, the coalition government, a theme song, {Natasha laughs} what would it be? If you can think of one now, that's fine. I will get your answer at the end of the focus group. So a theme song for the current coalition government. I see some people jotting down so I will give you a couple of minutes, and then we can start in earnest; if you can't think of one, that's fine, don't worry; it will come to you.

PARTY CONSIDER VOTING HANDOUTModerator 1: Okay, one of the sheets of paper that you have asks you a question and it lists all the parties on that sheet. So the premise of the question is: if you were to imagine yourself in a polling booth on election day which of the following parties that I have listed would you see yourself voting for? You could have possibly thought of voting for them in the past, maybe at the council elections or the assembly election or the Westminster election, or you might have thought about voting for them in 2010 or you might be considering voting for them in the future, so which of these parties that we have listed would you think of yourself likely to vote? So if you haven't filled this in I'll give you a couple of minutes. Is there anyone who hasn't filled this in? Is everybody ready to go? Great! So is there anyone around the table who has thought of voting for two parties on that list?

{Natasha, Dele and Willem raise their hands}

Willem: Yes

Moderator 1: Three?

{Natasha, Brenda, Dele and Willem raise their hands}

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Willem: Yes.

Brenda: Yes.

Moderator 1: Four?

{Natasha and Willem raise their hands}

Willem: Yes

Moderator 1: Five?

{Natasha raises her hands}

Natasha: Yes

Moderator 1: Six?

Beverley: Can I also say that I couldn't think of voting for a party.

Moderator 1: Okay.

Beverley: I'm voting for somebody to represent me, and I think that's equally as important as the party.

Moderator 1: But in terms of that list, you have about five, did you say?

Beverley: I said three and I've left two blank.

Moderator 1: Natasha, you have about five? Is there anyone who has six? Okay so let's start with Natasha, which are the five that you have listed?

Natasha: Greens, Labour, Liberal Democrats, Scottish Nationalist Party, obviously not much good here but I like their politics, and UKIP.

Moderator 1: Okay. And why, why this choice?

Natasha: There's aspects of all of the manifestos that I quite like and there's aspects that I don't like, so once there's aspects sort of back-and-forth which I do and don't like, as you say, with the individual candidate, there was a very good individual candidate for most parties, I would agree, but there's a very good Conservative person… but I still wouldn’t vote for them.

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Moderator 1: And why is that?

Natasha: I disagree fundamentally with the Conservative way of doing things, and similarly Plaid Cymru, I just fundamentally disagree with the basis of their party. So even if there are some one very good... if it's from Plaid Cymru I can't bring myself to jump there.

Moderator 1: Are there any particular policies of the other parties that you focus on, the ones that you like, for example?

Natasha: I tend to like things which are pro-environment, pro-education, pro-science, that sort of thing. I'm not much for big business; I'm a lefty, basically. {Laughter}

Moderator 1: And also voting in the local, the council, the assembly, how will you make that distinction?

Natasha: Then it comes down to the individual, I think, at the local elections. Even on the Wales-wide elections, apart from Plaid Cymru, then it comes down to the individual concerned. But I don't think that can count quite so much in Westminster, which is more party politics, so there the balance kind of splits towards which party they're in.

Moderator 1: Thank you for that. Is there anyone who has voted for, who has chosen four parties?

Willem: Yes, I did.

Moderator 1: What were those?

Willem: I thought of voting for Tories last time but I didn't. I think of voting Greens but I'm not going to. But I thought of it. Labour or Lib Dems, yeah. SNP, no. Plaid, no. And UKIP, no.

Moderator 1: Okay. So the ones that you did think of voting for, can you explain why?

Willem: Tories last time because Labour needed a change and Blair is just like a bad person. {Laughs} Greens, possibly as an alternative to Lib Dems, and Labour, possibly. I normally vote for Lib Dems so yeah, but I'm not clear what I'm going to do this time at all.

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Moderator 1: And what about the ones that you decided you are not…?

Willem: UKIP, yeah they’re out; I'd have to be dead to vote for them {laughs}. SNP, I'm not clear that some of their stuff is costed and I think they're being disingenuous in some of their policies, and Plaid the same.

Moderator 1: And in terms of voting at the local, the assembly or the national...?

Willem: That depends. So local, local as in assembly kind of depends on what I feel like, how I feel tactically, you know because of the proportional representation, that's a different equation, in a sense. And then local elections, it depends on the person and whose name got up recently.

Moderator 1: And what about Westminster?

Willem: I don't know, really. I mean, its’ all, they're all the same, aren't they? And really, to some extent it depends on… I think last time probably Nick Clegg's performance in the debates swung me towards going for them.

Moderator 1: In 2010?

Willem: Yeah, yeah. And I was kind of disappointed really… I mean, the whole thing is that no one bothers about… I've never seen, how long have I been here, 12 years, 13 years, I've never seen a candidate for anything, ever. I've never seen them walking on the road, I've never seen them doing anything. So I don't know if actually they don't care, so I just do what I feel like. I don't know if that makes sense.

Hayley: The Labour candidate for here, I saw her walking down the street but that's the only person I've ever seen.

Willem: No, I've never seen them even trying to solicit votes. They send these very generic leaflet things that probably make you go, make you think this is a load of rubbish – again {laughs}.

Moderator 1: In terms of people who chose three parties? {Brenda and Dele raise their hands} Okay, Brenda?

Brenda: I did Conservatives, Labour and Plaid Cymru. I went for Plaid purely because I do think they have a Welsh agenda, which is different than

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this agenda. We are looking at a lot of funding, European funding, coming into Wales and we do take a lot of projects on the back of that, certainly in areas of depravation. If we pull out of Europe, which some of the people have stated, then that actually would have a knock-on effect for Wales, and we've also got the ***, which is at my heart at the moment. In the past I have gone with both the Tories and Labour. Local elections, I've got a good Labour candidate so I might go that way but it really just depends on what comes… I am interested in *** and I am interested in politics *** because we are slightly different as a whole in this, for instance, I think.

Moderator 1: What about the parties that you didn't choose? Was there any particular reason?

Brenda: I just don't think they're relevant, really. SNP, it doesn't make any difference to us, UKIP, what can I say really? He is and he isn't. It's like Marmite. And the Lib Dems, they can't make their minds up.

Moderator 1: Thank you. Beverley, you had three parties as well.

Beverley: Yes, Green, Labour and Liberal Democrats.

Moderator 1: Sorry, Green, Labour and Liberal Democrats.

Beverley: Yeah. Largely because some of their values of all three are things that I support. There are things I'm not so keen on. You know, I've seriously gone off Labour since Blair. They are going to have to work really hard to win me back {laughs}. I just don't... The parties that don't do what they said they would do. I mean, I accept that there is need for negotiation and compromise and I think perhaps we should be educating the public to understand that much better rather than making sort of fatuous promises all the time. I would always rather vote for a person, because we have a democratic government, hard won, particularly by women, in terms of election people to represent us. And so I would go for people who have some feeling, I understand them as people and they're interested in their constituents, and I think that's really important and I think that's lost in many cases.

Moderator 1: And would this reasoning be the same at the local council and the assembly and the National elections?

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Beverley: Yes, absolutely, because I think that unless people at national level feel that they're accountable to people at local level they just lose sight of what they're dealing with.

Moderator 1: Thank you very much. Dele, you had three parties as well?

Dele: Yes. I had the Green party, Liberal Democrats and the Scottish National party. I would have to say that this is my first time really going into a British election, because in 2010 I was not around, and I'm just a student *** much family here. But some very important things will affect how I vote. One of them is the topic of sustainable development. I will obviously side with parties with a strong you know manifesto you know that supports sustainable development. And then of course, something like climate change, Paris 2015 coming up and this will really affect how I vote, and that is why I think these parties, I have chosen the Green party, the Liberal Democrats have got some progressive ideas on sustainable development. I don't know much about the Labour Party but for ** those things will affect how I will vote, not the party itself but their ideas on these issues will affect how I will vote.

Moderator 1: Thank you very much. Hayley, you have two parties.

Hayley: Yeah, it was two parties. It was either Labour or possibly Plaid Cymru.

Moderator 1: Yeah, and why did you choose these?

Hayley: I think in general, Labour is the party whose policy I tend to most agree with, and then if I wasn't obviously in Wales I would obviously not vote for Plaid but… I think I was watching the debates, the major one with the seven leaders, and I think I watched another thing with her, and I don't agree with everything they say but I think, especially living in Wales, it kind of their priority is ** like to help Wales. I think I agree with her, this whole austerity thing has had its day. And generally I think I'm quite more of a lefty. But I wasn't actually able to vote in the last election, I was a month under 18. If I had the chance to vote I probably would have begrudgingly voted Labour. I think it's because that's the MP in my area then, who was a really good MP. He's been around for like 20 years or something and he comes to your house and he's very accessible, but at the time I didn't really agree with most of the

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policies. I remember Peter Mandelson coming to the college to try and encourage people to vote and I was just kind of like oooooh! {Laughter} *** I wouldn't vote for UKIP because I think they're very scaremongering, and I think what they say does hold true to some people but I do kind of think they do kind of scaremonger people. I don't see how any of their policies could possibly benefit me. I wouldn't really vote Conservative either. Like I remember in college we used to get EMA, and obviously because I'm a student as well, when the Conservatives got in power, scrapped EMA, which for me was quite useful when I was in college, and put on tuition fees. I escaped it luckily, because I started before they put them on. But I just I kind of think they've done some okay… I think they're not all bad, like no one party, but just generally I don’t think the Conservatives. SNP, its just, I don’t know, I think Nicola Sturgeon is really good at talking but I don't think her plans can realistically be put into ***. I think one of them said "doesn't it appear to be very costed?" Also, I think the Green party, I am quite pro-environment but I think some of their policies are a bit cuckoo {Laughter}. It's just like it's very… It's hard to see outside... I think if they had more policies outside the environment, I think maybe I would be more inclined.

PARTY LEADER HANDOUTModerator 1: Thank you very much; that was really insightful and very, very helpful. And we have something else for you as well, so I'm going to pass around a sheet of paper, on both sides, with the party leaders, and what we would like are your first impressions of seeing those party leaders, and when I say first impressions what I mean is, so for example, I say Stephen Fry, what are the first words that come to your mind? Don't over think it, just the first words.

Willem: Jocular.

Moderator 1: Sorry?

Willem: Jocular.

Moderator 1: Jocular. Okay.

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Natasha: Amicable.

Moderator 1: Amicable.

FR: ***

Moderator 1: Yeah. So it's that kind of thing. Don't think about it too much, it's the first words. So when you see the party leaders, jot down the first words that come to mind, and also identify which of those words are positive, so with an up arrow, negative for you with a down arrow, or neutral, which means they have neither positive or negative connotations, and that's an asterisk. So I'll just circulate these and I'll give you a few minutes, it shouldn't take too much time. And it's fine if nothing comes to mind, because in the past we've had people write "who?" for Nick Clegg. So don't worry if you're struggling with a particular leader.

Willem: Was it your idea to put the pictures on?

Moderator 1: The pictures are all from the party websites.

Willem: No, no, there are pictures in my head for those three.

Moderator 1: Yeah, so write down whatever is in your head.

Willem: In my head, right.

Natasha: So what we think already? {Willem laughs}

Moderator 1: So if that’s what’s come to your mind, then yes.

Willem: Oh dear, okay.

Moderator 2: In 2005, somebody wrote for Michael Howard “Dracula” {laughter}

Willem: ****

Moderator 2: So very random things ***

Moderator 1: So let's start with David Cameron, positives for David Cameron?

Natasha: I think he's competent.

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Moderator 1: Competent.

Natasha: I think he is.

Moderator 1: Okay. Any other positives? Neutrals?

Beverley: Thoughtful.

Moderator 1: Thoughtful, as a neutral?

Beverley: Yes.

Moderator 1: And negatives? Its okay. You can say it.

Willem: I probably should say fat cat.

Moderator 1: Fat cat, okay.

Hayley: I said "old boys club." {laughs}

Brenda: Posh boy.

Hayley: I find him a bit odd at times. I think it's his face.

Willem: I think he should lose weight {Brenda laughs} and he would look kind of *** and hungry ***

Natasha: I wrote down "shiny" because that's the first thing I always think of...

Hayley: He's got a massive forehead.

Willem: ****

Natasha: ***

Moderator 1: Is that a negative for him?

Natasha: It's a negative.

Willem: Yeah.

Natasha: He needs to… Even the day before, he shaves or something, just to take away the shine. {Brenda laughs}

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Willem: He needs a bit of a makeover. {Willem, Natasha and Brenda laugh}

Moderator 1: Any other negatives for David Cameron?

Hayley: I think he's scared.

Willem: **** {Willem and Natasha laugh}

Hayley: Because he's reluctant to take part in all these debates, I just think he's scared of what's going to happen. That's quite a more basic one.

Natasha: The person who is in government always gets a basting. No matter who is in government they always get a basting. He knows he's on a loser as soon as he goes for one of these things.

Hayley: He should go out fighting! {laughs}

Natasha: I can't believe we're feeling sorry for David Cameron. {laughs}

Willem: What he did last time, in 2010, he tried to be honest, in a sense, and what's happened in government is it's just made him have to be dishonest and try to clean things up.

Natasha: I don't think it's only him, to be honest. I'm not sure if the man and the politics necessarily work. I don't know.

Willem: ****

Moderator 1: Right. If there are no more negatives {laughter}, then let's move on and see if there are any positives for Ed Miliband.

Brenda: I put "George Michael" {laughter}

Natasha: ***

Brenda: Since I've seen that video I'm watching him more *** {laughter}

Moderator 1: Any other positives for Ed Miliband?

Beverley: I put "concerned"

Moderator 1: Concerned? Okay.

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Hayley: I think he’s quite, when you watch him talk, I think he's quite good at talking. He can get his views across quite well, I think, normally, if he's one-on-one, especially with people like Paxman. {Natasha nods}.

Dele: I feel he is a gentle guy. Very gentle. {Natasha nods}.

Moderator 1: Neutrals for Ed Miliband? [No response] And negatives for Ed Miliband.

Hayley: Bacon Sandwich! {Laughter}

Moderator 1: Any other negatives?

Willem: I think he’s a poor salesman.

Moderator 1: Sorry?

Willem: I was just saying he's a poor salesman. And I think he and Ed Balls kind of morph into each other, that's the problem. {Brenda and Natasha laugh}

Moderator 1: Natasha, you had a negative.

Natasha: I had 'undecided', because with their policies, their policies had come out so late and you were waiting for Labour to go 'no, this is what we're going to do.' And they kind of dribbled them out, he's kind of followed behind the policies. He gets away with **** {laughs}

Willem: Whenever Ed Ball speaks I get the idea that he's kind of thinking about it as he carries on {Brenda nods} and he's going to chuck something in and say 'no, that's not actually what I meant. I meant that.' {Natasha laughs}

Moderator 1: What about Nick Clegg, positives for Nick Clegg?

Natasha: Friendly.

Moderator 1: Friendly. Okay Any others?

Hayley: I think he's quite accessible. Out of all the leaders, he generally, outside of Westminster he generally does the most things. He has a talk show and he tends to go on a lot of programmes even though he gets absolutely ripped to pieces. {Willem smiles} At least he's the one that is most seen to be actually willing to do that. {Natasha nods}

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Willem: Someone said to him today he looks better in real life, he looks good in real life. {Willem, Natasha, Hayley and Brenda laugh}

Moderator 1: What about neutrals for Nick Clegg?

Brenda: Non-descript.

Moderator 1: Non-descript.

Beverley: ** ***

Moderator 1: As a neutral?

Beverley: Yeah.

Willem: I put it that's neutral, that's ineffectual.

Moderator 1: Negatives for Nick Clegg.

Natasha: Malleable

Moderator 1: Malleable. Anything else?

Dele: ***

Hayley: *** You know how they pushed the video saying sorry about the tuition fees and then someone turned it in to a song, {laughter} that 'I'm, sorry' song? That's all I can think of. {Hayley, Natasha, Beverley and Brenda laugh}

Willem: I watched that last week. {Hayley, Beverley and Brenda smile and Natasha laughs}

Hayley: It's such a funny song.

Moderator 1: We will go on to the other leaders then. Nicola Sturgeon, positives for Nicola Sturgeon?

Hayley: It's a good that she is different. {Natasha nods.} She really does stand by what she believes in.

Moderator 1: Any other positives?

Natasha: She comes across as being competent and confident.

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Moderator 1: Competent and confident? {Natasha nods.}

Natasha: ***

Moderator 1: Any other positives?

Brenda: She's a Scottish woman {laughter} I also put her down as collaborator,

Willem: {in a surprised tone} Collaborator?

Brenda: because I think Scottish politics and Welsh politics are quite similar *** So I think there's things going on between the two countries.

Hayley: As long as they're not a Tory she'll *** {Natasha laughs}

{Brenda shrugs as if unconvinced}

Moderator 1: Sorry. What about neutrals for Nicola Sturgeon? {No response} Negatives?

Beverley: I thought she was kind of sly. I'm just going on the photograph. {Willem nods}.

Moderator 1: It's your first impression, that’s what the exercise was, yes. You got her down as sly?

Beverley: Yes.

Willem: And I did as well. I thought she was too good to be true, because going for North Sea oil, she didn’t mention it *** (Natasha laughs}

Moderator 1: Any other negatives for Nicola Sturgeon? Okay, Leanne Wood? Positives for Leanne Wood?

Willem: I thought she was okay but she's just too small, she hasn’t got {moves his hands in a circular movement to indicate quick motion}, she’s very ***, you know there's nothing kind of behind her almost, but this is going on to Assembly type stuff, like *** has almost always got the begging bowl out, but she wants to be different but she's just got not got enough *** {laughs}

Brenda: She's interesting.

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Moderator 1: What do you have down as a positive?

Brenda: I have interesting.

Dele: I find her cool.

Moderator 1: Cool as in cooool? {laughter}

Hayley: She looks like the kind of person you actually see who lives nearby, if that makes sense, so the kind of relatable ***

Moderator 1: What about neutrals?

Natasha: I've just wrote down Welsh, and that's because when she had that debate with the seven leaders everything she said was Wales, Wales, Wales, {Willem smiles} which is fine, I understand that she is from Wales doing a Welsh thing, but we are talking Westminster politics. So as well as the Welsh perspective she needs a much *** perspective. And so when I see her now I think it's from that debate, it's Wales, Wales, Wales. And Wales this bit *** There's England and Scotland and if she's going to walk on the Westminster stage she needs to have that. So it's neutral, because, yes, Wales does need *** But on the other hand, she needed to be a bit balanced.

Moderator 1: What about negatives for Leanne Wood?

Beverley: I've put down 'doubting.' {laughs} Again, it's just what her face said to me. She didn’t {sighs}, she wasn't convincing about anything and {shrugs} that's the impression it creates {chuckles}.

Moderator 1: Any other negatives? Okay. Natalie Bennett, positives for Natalie Bennett? {No response} Neutrals?

Beverley: Enthusiastic.

Moderator 1: Enthusiastic as a neutral? {Beverley nods}. Okay. Negatives?

Hayley: As a neutral I kind of put Aussie {laughter; Natasha put her hands on her hips as if miffed}. On the one hand, I know Australia, I used to live in Australia, I loved it there, but on the other hand it's hard to understand where her loyalties lie because, from what I understand, she lived there for quite a while, but then obviously she's now here, which I think is fine but it kind of

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makes me unsure about her. Maybe if she was here longer, if she'd been here since a child I wouldn't have been a bit like … I don’t know, yeah. I love Australia but I'm just like, oh.... {laughs}

Moderator 1: It’s okay. What about negatives for Natalie Bennett?

Willem: I'd say she was confused and disorganised.

Moderator 1: Confused and disorganised. Thank you. Any others?

Natasha: Unfinished, vocal, is the impression.

Moderator 1: Thank you. Finally, Nigel Farage, positives for Nigel Farage.

Natasha: He's certain. He’s certain in what he thinks. {Beverley smiles.} In some contexts that could be a good thing, positive *** you know, certainty is probably better than say, ***

Moderator 1: Neutrals for Nigel Farage? {Natasha looks at Beverley who is smiling and laughs. No response} Negatives for Nigel Farage?

Beverley: Blasé {laughs and shrugs}.

Hayley: Yeah, I had scaremonger. And just like Beer. Like I don't know, he always goes on like he's one of the people because he's always drinking beer and he goes to the pub all the time. I just think if he is Prime Minister I want someone to be out of the pub and in Downing Street {smiles, Natasha laughs}. I want them to actually be doing work. I don't really buy the whole like act he puts on.

Moderator 1: Any other negatives?

Dele: I said 'funny' just because of the same reason, because he looks funny always in his actions. I just find him funny. For a leader you need to be seen as serious with what you do.

Willem: I just think he's a horrible man (Natasha laughs and Beverley smiles}.

Brenda: ***

Natasha: Blinkered.

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CAMPAIGN IMPRESSIONS Moderator 1: Thank you very much; that was, again, very informative. The next few questions are less about the exercise and more about just us talking. Let's just cast our mind back to the last few weeks since the campaign, lets say. Are there any and what politics -related topics have you been paying attention to, either at the local level or at the national level?

Beverley: To be honest, I'm completely switched off {laughs}. I'll switch on again nearer May the 7th.

Moderator 1: Okay. Is this true for…? Some of you are nodding your heads. Brenda, you are nodding your head.

Brenda: Yes, I pick up something on the news *** but not in any great depth.

Hayley: When I read papers online *** There's actually a good article on the BBC website. It says where each party stands on each issue. So I've read that in detail because it had it all in one place. I'd rather read that than 20 articles debating on whether this is going to do and what so-and-so's opinion. So that’s about it ***

Moderator 1: Willem?

Willem: I think there is quite a lot of overkill because there is nothing else really happening news wise. But it's still interesting. You can get different feeds. So there's a new poll comes out every day so you know who's winning or not, and Newsnight do a counter as well {Hayley nods}, so it is interesting to see what's happening. BBC have got that predometer where you can move the slide up and down.

Moderator 1: So its more like those kinds of things that you are paying attention to?

Willem: Yeah its probably. Its locally there's absolutely nothing happening. I think the problem with Wales is that Wales is devolved and everything's about health, but health is devolved so it doesn't actually matter ***. And

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economically, Welsh power is economically nothing so it doesn't really have impact on London, and the big battle is going to be Scotland, I think, versus Labour really and my constituency is mostly Labour, so there we are {Natasha nods}. So it's interesting to follow, but involvement, probably less.

Moderator 1: Natasha?

Natasha: I'm trying to find out what I can at the moment, to be honest, and I'm finding actually there's a lot of very surface information about what they're actually going to do but I'm having trouble finding stuff that is accessible that I can find out, okay, what is your manifesto on this. As I said, science, I'm a scientist, so it's very close to my heart, I want to know that there's going to be funding there, because I think it's a big engine, it's a place where Britain can go forward, it's a place where actually Cardiff has all these development issues. So a major self-interest, no bones about that, and yet if you try and find out what you get, and you get this and other things as well, like environment, you get these statements {Beverley nods} about how "the environment is very important to us and we're going to build a quarter of a million houses a year. Obviously we're not going to tell you where we're going to build them {Beverley smiles and Willem nods}." You're sort of like "Woah! Woah! Can we step back a bit here?" Science, nothing except that it's very valued and we're very pleased that it's here. Yeah, that probably means you're going to cut out something, doesn't it? And so it's doing that with all sorts of things and every time they tell you they're going to cut something it's always somebody else that they're going to cut and you think 'well, who is this someone else? You've ripped the guts out of the police now {laughs}, you're ripping the guts out of all these things, so where's the money going to come from?' But I'm interested, I'm trying to find the information but I'm finding it hard to actually find, which is getting me actually progressively more and more angry at all of the parties who seem to want our votes when they're not actually giving us any information to base our choices on.

Moderator 1: Thank you. Dele?

Dele: I think for me, especially for Cardiff, I follow the local issues like maybe there has been something like Cardiff local development plan and it's been going on, you know, there was that one in *** 2021. Another has been the

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public consultation is going on. I need to know maybe what these parties think about this and different leaders. That is very important for me. The biggest part of that plan, I think, the biggest controversy is about housing and how to meet the housing demand in Cardiff, and of course the issues to do with climate change. When you are going into government, which is very, very much you know important when it comes to the issue of climate change and sustainable development. And its, I think it's something that will count when it comes to making decisions, especially for those who are pro-environment, like me, when it comes to making decisions on leaders and the parties to support. Of course it has got some controversies but I think for me, that is the way I would go. There is no other way. There is no shortcut anyway for me.

DEBATES Moderator 1: What about the debates? The debates have been quite a contentious thing this time around. So in terms of a general way, general part of the campaign, do you think debates are a good thing? Should a campaign, you know every election campaign in the future have leaders' debates?

Beverley: I think they went very well. I think it's a performance and what I'd much rather see is not the consultation where the questions are already defined, so the agenda is already set. I would much prefer that it was possible for people to put forward the issues that are important to them and debate them and to present them. It doesn't happen. It happens in the pub maybe {laughs}. Actually it doesn't happen in any kind of public life.

Natasha: It's going to be really difficult though because each party is going to have this mass of different commitments, and for the leader to have all those numbers in their head, just to be able to pull them out at the drop of a hat, I think that's expecting a lot of the leaders {laughs}.

Willem: Isn't that what they should be doing the whole time? That's their job.

Natasha: In terms of the general, you know, the general outlook of the party, yes, but if we are saying 'okay, have you got a commitment to building 300,000 houses a year?' and then they say ‘yes’, and in fact all their advisers

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are going {Natasha waving arms wildly in the air} 'Actually, no no, it's 275! Oh God!' {Beverley smiles} **** And it's kind of not fair on them.

Beverley: But that kind of precision isn't needed, is it? You know, in policy terms, it's a commitment that, you know, however you qualify the categories these people will have housing with X amount of time that fits their ***. And that may mean them having to think, ‘Okay, how?’. I mean like in Spain, for instance, the universities have, many universities have a system whereby you can get cheaper housing if you're willing to live in houses where there is a need for an elderly person to have companionship and some light housework, and they get cheaper rents. {Natasha nods}. I mean, you can think of ways in which it is possible to share ***...

Moderator 1: Can I just bring us back to the question of the debates ***?

Natasha: I was just going to say that that's true and that's very good but that's not something that would come out of a leaders' debate. It would come out of people talking to each other prior to the debates and then hopefully it getting to the leaders and the leaders saying 'we've seen this happening in Spain and it's a really good idea.' {Beverley nods}. So that's what should be behind and the leaders' debate is the shiny bits out at the front but the shiny bits where we get them to show their best so that we can know exactly what it is they stand for.

Moderator 1: What do Hayley and Brenda, what are your opinions?

Natasha: Sorry! {laughs}

Moderator 1: No, no, don’t worry. What are your views? Do you think leaders' debates are a good thing and we should have them? Brenda?

Brenda: Yes, I think. Certainly I sat and watched the last one and I quite enjoyed seeing them all together in one place rather than all individually, because then you can make that assessment, visual judgements on policies and how they handle themselves and what they were saying all in one place and at a particular time. Yeah, I think it's a good platform.

Moderator 1: Hayley?

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Hayley: I think they're kind of good, especially for people who haven't been closely following what is happening. The only thing, especially with the last one, it's really hard... At times I felt like the last one, especially, was kind of descending into P&Qs and that is just like a massive shouting match. I think it's good, it's good for them to challenge each other on their views. I'm not too sure about having seven, it's very, it’s a lot of people.

Moderator 1: Willem?

Willem: Question Time has five usually, sometimes six, so that's quite a nice all round I suppose. And the debates are similar to that and Question Time never really gets to any... Generally, no one is better than the others. So you get a feeling for personality, and I suppose that's what you try to get from this, you want an idea of personality. But I think of the debates as too stage-managed, really. I mean, they're not going to go there unprepared and just say let's do it. It's all processed. {Hayley nods}. Like Ed Miliband, he had cue cards and all that stuff, and they've all got that. So it's a bit stage-managed. {shrugs} I don't know if it's that helpful; they should have more spontaneity. You don't get that in politics anywhere, not in the States or here or anywhere else, really. {Hayley nods}. They walk about within their own kind of clique. So that's my view.

Moderator 1: Thank you. Dele?

Dele: I think for me, it's a good platform to compare the candidates and what they believe in and it's a platform whereby they make a commitment you know on the TV screen in front of everybody. {Dele, Natasha, Beverley, Willem and Hayley chuckle}. So I think for the public it's easy to compare what they have to give. Not many people can go into a party manifesto and go through all those things maybe, but it just makes it easier for people to compare. {Natasha nods}

THEME SONGModerator 1: Thank you. We're nearly at the end so let's go back to the question about the theme song for the coalition. Have you thought of anything?

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Willem: I just think they're kind of, they’re stuck. There's a thing called Stuck in the Middle with You. {laughter} **** They don't seem to have any gears or anything like that. They just seem like, I don't know, forwards or backwards or nowhere and it seems all muddy and they can't get their feet out of it, so...

Natasha: I had What's That Coming over the Hill? Because that's what... they always seem to be going 'oh, the deficit, oh it's coming back!' {laughter}

Brenda: I put We Are Sailing, because I think they are going off into a sunset. {laughter}

Moderator 1: Thank you. Anybody else have any ideas? Okay. Well if you do think of anything as we watch the debates just jot it down, because we'll collect it all at the end. So I think that's us done for the first part of the focus groups. So we go and have a comfort break, have something to eat. We’ll set up the table and projector and so on. And if can come back say 5 minutes before 8 then that gives us time to settle down.

{Participants and moderators watch the Leaders’ Debate live}

AFTER THE DEBATE

Moderator 2: So just by way of introduction, I'm Kristi, I'm an American, I did my PhD at Essex in British politics and I live in Germany. So I'm an American who studies British politics and lives on the continent. *** I did the focus groups in 2005 and then at the election in 2010 ***. So what I want to do in this last section is break it up into two parts. First we are going to talk about the debate itself, the structure and how you thought it was run, and then we're going to talk about the leaders, because I think the debate discussion will go faster and that will leave us more time and you won't have to rush questions at the end.

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WAS DEBATE FAIRModerator 2: So the first question I wanted to ask was, by show of hands, how many people thought that the debate was fair? {Everyone raises their hands}

WAS DEBATE WELL RUNModerator 2: So given that everyone agrees that it was fair, are there any things that you want to say about that in terms of do you think that.... Well, here's a different question then: do you think the debate was well run, by a show of hands? {Everyone raises their hands}

WAS DEBATE FAIRModerator 2: Good. And in terms of the time that everybody had, did you feel that it was pretty well balanced or that one person was dominating or were they all jumping in? Can I start with Brenda? Is it Brenda? Yes.

Brenda: Yeah. You can say that it was well-balanced but I think Miliband did dominate, without a doubt. She started off like everybody’s got equal questioning but then it turned around to actually 'what would you do if somebody said...', it turned to support him rather than having the individual questions. So I think he dominated the questions. I think he just didn't ***

Moderator 2: Yeah, it looked very even. Does anyone else agree with that?

Willem: I think he was probably responding to questions rather... I thought he was being, I wonder if they were trying to marginalise him or get him to move {Natasha nods} to their agenda, in a sense.

Brenda: Yeah, but I still think you know if we're talking about the timing of the questions and the time you get to speak, he actually had more time than anybody else to speak. But I think you're right with the questioning.

Dele: I think he became a target because of the absence of Cameron. {Natasha smiles and nods}. Also the questions would have gone to Cameron {Brenda

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nods} so he became a target as they were official position on something {Natasha nods} where questions were being thrown at him, his issues being challenged by the four leaders {Natasha and Brenda nod} and he became a little bit defensive.

Moderator 2: Do people generally agree that Ed Miliband got more speaking time than other people {Brenda nods, Natasha grimaces, Willem shakes his head} or do you feel that it was pretty fair?

Natasha: Yes, because the other people in the debate were talking to Ed Miliband so he was responding.

Hayley: Responding.

Dele: He was just responding. That’s why *** {Natasha smiles and nods and Willem nods}

Moderator 2: That's a very good point, because more people did keep asking questions ***. So moving on the performances, *** how each person did, if you think about the big moments of the debate and you can pick one that you might want to talk about tomorrow, does anybody, Natasha, is there a moment that jumps out for you out of the debate?

Natasha: Probably Ed Miliband saying he wouldn’t support the SNP. You fool! {smiles, Beverley smiles} Oh, that was such a bad moment. What were you thinking? {Brenda nods} may be, you know, you will turn around on that one, in which case it's going to bite you on the backside, or speak to them, in which case it's going to bite you on the backside. Either way, this was not a good move but it was quite entertaining to watch {laughs, Brenda and Beverley smile}.

Brenda: {smiling} *** {Natasha, Beverley and Brenda laugh}

Natasha: I just wrote ‘You fool!’ {Natasha, Beverley and Brenda laugh}

Moderator 2: Beverley, ***?

Beverley: {laughing and shaking her head} I thought that as well {Natasha and Brenda laugh}

Moderator 2: Are there, anyone else’s big moments?

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Willem: He shook his head when they were asking him and they just went back to him and he shook his head {Natasha nods} and I thought that was , he just dumped it, {Natasha nods}, he was saying ‘No, no, go away’. I thought the first, I mean my, the part I thought was very revealing was the bit about defence and I thought that there I wouldn't actually follow Ed Miliband into battle. {Natasha laughs, Brenda and Anne smile}. And this is being

Moderator 2: {reassuringly} Yeah, yeah, yeah ***.

Willem: And Sturgeon I thought was amazingly strong in refuting nuclear and going about conventional weapons and I thought she was really, really good in doing that and I thought that was just a turnaround. So she used, I suppose, SNP weakness just transformed into something, into a position of strength. {Natasha nods}. And I thought that was really. There were three others in the debate as well but I thought they were

Moderator 2: ***

Willem: So I think that was actually the turn that I wouldn't have expected her to have taken a position of weakness and make it into a strength {shrugs}.

Moderator 2: Hayley, I don’t know if you were ***

Hayley: I thought the whole Ed Miliband, I thought the only thing he said that people who are considering voting SNP would have thought you know ‘What? If he ain't going to work with them we might as well just vote Labour because…’. You know I think he's trying to do it like a tactical move but I think it might bite him in the ass {Natasha grimaces} down the line {Willem nods}. I kind of found it quite funny when David Dimbleby owned Nigel Farage {laughs, Anne and Willem smile, Natasha laughs} because he comes across as a crackpot when he's like ‘oh the BBC and all these lefty audience members’. And he's like ‘Actually they're not’. {Natasha nods} It just kind of, it made me think like, it just kind of really like, showed him up a bit and made him look like actually he's not.

Moderator 2: Other *** moments, Beverley and Dele?

Dele: Yeah, I think for me it just came out, I mean that’s the most memorable moment for me *** Farage? {Natasha nods} he’s just, he’s just having ***

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{Willem nods}. All of his policies are not truly *** that the migrants are the cause of housing crisis in UK {Natasha nods} when your *** are not provided for, for free; they’re paying taxes, they’re paying rents. Then that should not be an excuse to provide, for not providing more housing. I think its just a ridiculous *** of democracy in the UK. He’s just a laughingstock.

Moderator 2: Beverley, was there any moment that stood out for you?

Beverley: No ***. It was {gestures to Natasha and chuckles; Natasha laughs} Ed Miliband’s ***

WHO STOOD OUTModerator 2: Yeah, okay. So that’s your ***. *** It feeds into, you know, the big moments and who did well. Whose performance stood out to you? {clicks fingers}

Willem: I'd go for Nicola Sturgeon, totally.

Moderator 2: I kind of suspect that, so I thought you’d be a safe person to start with to go around. {Willem laughs}. So Nicola stood out to you. ***

Hayley: I think, yeah, Nicola Sturgeon. I think Ed Miliband did do quite well, because he was kind of always attacked to, you know. I think other parties like Leanne Wood would say ‘Can you promise us this, can you promise us that?’ He kind of like stood his ground against all of them. I think Nicola Sturgeon and Ed Miliband.

Moderator 2: Okay. I’m going to go with Natasha and then come to you, Dele. Natasha?

Natasha: Apparently, Natalie Bennett {sounding surprised; Willem nods}. She didn’t seem to do very well in the first debate at all. In this one she seemed to have found her feet. And okay {grimaces} she did good for lots of lovely ‘Oh we should be nice to everyone’ which you know, is good, but in the background necessarily but then when it came to it actually, she stood up and actually said things when that was not necessarily happening through the other people. I think this is in contrast with the first outing.

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Moderator 2: Right. ***

Natasha: {nodding} Yeah.

Moderator 2: Dele, who stood out to you?

Dele: I think for me, Nicola Sturgeon {Natasha nods} and Leanne Wood, will go for me because I found found their issues simple and you know something achievable, something that it’s not, the other like, they admit it they are trying to {Willem nods} please the big companies and the big people {Natasha nods}, their politics are more complex and those two ladies stood out for me {Willem and Natasha nod}.

Moderator 2: Beverley, how about you?

Beverley: I thought Nicola was excellent and {looking at Brenda} I was rather surprised by Leanne. I thought she was very much ***. I mean I haven't seen these programmes because I don't have a television {laughter}.

Moderator 2: Yeah. But Nicola Sturgeon was the one who stood out?

Beverley: Yeah.

Moderator 2: And Brenda?

Brenda: I'm going to say Miliband purely because I've never had any faith in him {laughter} from day one. I associate him tonight actually respond to the questioning that came from the others {Beverley nods} and I was quite kind of impressed by the way that he did have something planned and he could retort to the comments {Beverley nods} that were being thrown at him. I don't necessarily agree with him. He was the target and he could answer but the last bit he totally *** {laughter}.

DEBATE GENDER DISCRIMINATIONModerator 2: Great, thank you. A real question, a very spontaneous one. Did anyone get, with this debate, any kind of sense of gender discrimination, either one way or the other?

Natasha: No. {Dele shakes his head}

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Willem: No. I thought Nigel Farage at the end said ‘I side for the little man, the little woman’, I thought that was patronising. You know, he was just saying that. {shaking his head} He doesn’t you know, Nigel doesn't mean that. I thought he was just ***

Hayley: When you read all the stuff {Willem shakes his head} they say about gender and stuff you're just like ‘Nah!’ {Natasha smiles}...

WHO UNDERPERFORMEDModerator 2: The balance I thought was interesting***. I didn't think, I didn’t pick up any discrimination or anything but I just wanted to see what you guys think *** {Natasha laughs; Beverley and Willem smile}. So who underperformed, or did anybody underperform?

Willem: So I have a slightly different view. So I put, so generally I though Nicola Sturgeon did really nicely, and then Natalie Bennett, I had her scoring rubbish in the beginning and I *** {Moderator 2 chuckles} and then she actually got stronger and stronger and I think the closing was really good. And I didn’t, Ed Miliband, he didn't answer questions, he just gave generic responses {Natasha nods}; that was my view {Dele nods}.

Moderator 2: Yeah, yeah, of course.

Willem: To most of the questions, he didn't give detail. People went into detail, even Nigel went into Brownfield, you know and for housing he just gave, he was a little woolly and kind of said housing is a real priority but he was a bit ***. I don't feel too impressed by him, I'm afraid. He started very well but just like went {makes a sound like a crashing bomb} ***.

Moderator 2: Anyone else in terms of underperformance?

Natasha: Nigel Farage. It was a symphony of putting your foot in it {Beverley and Brenda smile}.

Moderator 2: By a show of hands? How many people {everyone raises their hands, Natasha laughs} ***

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Natasha: No, but I am always willing to believe that people are aware, I don’t agree with their overall policy, may have aspects that I agree with and so I'm willing to listen and hear for what there is, but, you know, things like the point-based immigration system, he was talking about the Australian point system and about the NHS doctors. Now, when they went on about the NHS had the perfect chance to go ‘Yes, our point system won't let them in’! Because the Australian point system is a horrible system, don't have the Australian system, right it's so tricky to get a visa.

Hayley: It is. I lived in Australia and I guess it like you know there must be about 50 pages of… But the only thing that really annoyed me is he didn't explain what it was {Natasha nods}. Like I knew what it was because I've lived there but for someone who's never lived in Australia how are they going to know how the point system works? You can say ‘we want your system’ but you need to say how it works and how it benefits everyone.

Natasha: Except, it doesn't really. It benefits people who have high status jobs and lots of money. Australia, its not a very humane system. But basically, doctors will get in it because doctors have high status jobs and generally they're not the poorest of society. So he had the perfect opportunity there to go 'oh, it's okay; we'll have the points system. Doctors can get in.' And what did he do? He went on about how migrants are going to rip the heart out of the NHS, and such. Ah! And benefits tourism. Nigel, Nigel, Nigel, okay, I disagree with every aspect of your policy but you could have got other people who don't know what you're talking about to agree with you if you'd done it a different way {shakes her head}.

Moderator 2: It’s a very good reason for rating underperformance. {Natasha laughs, Beverley smiles}. Use of your own policies. Anyone else in terms of underperformance, someone you were expecting a bit more from but tonight underperformed?

Brenda: Yeah, I did *** Natalie Bennett, because I felt she had lots of opportunities to justify some of the big green issues but she didn't. For example, she talked about housing, she could have talked a lot more about building sustainable communities {Natasha and Dele nod} and about how social housing could create sustainable communities, and I thought that was

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really something that should have been big on her agenda. She mentioned an awful lot about climate change but she didn't say once how she was going to do something about climate change {Natasha nods}, and that's just very current so I would like to know how she was going to do that.

Moderator 2: What policy does she have specifically?

Brenda: {nodding} Yeah.

Hayley: I think Leanne Wood wasn't… I know she always kept asking Ed Miliband like ‘Would you do this, would you give us this, would you give us that?’ It kind of showed weakness because it kind of makes me think {Natasha nods} actually, she's kind of hoping Ed Miliband will just give her everything she wants {Natasha nods} rather than her taking it for herself. Like I think some of the policies are very, very aligned with Ed Miliband's. I think it happened with a lot of fewer parties. Ed Miliband would say something and then they would maybe run along with it, but then again she did that quite a lot. With Nigel Farage you know he's a bit of a crackpot about his immigration. Ed Miliband was the first to say ‘Oh actually people do have genuine concerns and they shouldn't be dismissed’ {Natasha nods} and then everyone was like 'oh yeah, yeah. Immigration is an issue for some, people do have concerns.' But before they were like 'no, no, no.' I think she was quite behind a lot of it.

Moderator 2: Did you have any? Its okay if you don’t have answers too.

Dele: I think Ed Miliband. I think I expected for a big party like Labour to come up with good, really good policies from David Cameron. He was talking like just generally he doesn't give specifics, so he was talking about reducing energy bills, he doesn't say we want to invest in renewable energy or something like that. He is not specific, he is not coming out clearly. And the other thing is he is talking on just some general ***like ‘there is a huge difference between me and David Cameron’ but he is not telling us {Natasha nods}. I really, that’s from that point whether he can really operate anything different. So I really expected him to come out here and take advantage.

Moderator 2: I will follow that about the idea of policy ***, but before we move on and again you don't have to pick somebody that underperformed but I wanted to give you an opportunity, Beverley you're the only one that hasn't

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spoken. {Beverley smiles} I didn't want to force you to say anything *** {Natasha chuckles}.

DEBATE STRUCTUREModerator 2: In terms of, by a show of hands, how many people would have liked to see or hear more about specific policies during this debate in terms of people actually being... numbers and more specific. {everyone raises hands} So that’s great. And I had one more question about the debate that I forgot to ask you. That little line at the bottom, it’s called a worm. So how many people found the worm distracting? {Everyone raises their hands} How many people found it entertaining, by a show of hands? {Willem and Hayley raise their hands}

Willem: Well, it was interesting.

Moderator 2: Interesting? Okay. How many people found it interesting, by a show of hands? {Willem and Hayley raise their hands} How many people would have preferred the channel where you had the option not to have a worm on? {Everyone raises their hands, smiles all around} So basically you guys didn't find the worm at all helpful {Natasha shakes her head}. I don't want to paraphrase here but I'm not getting a lot of positive feedback on that worm. Do you want to talk about it?

Hayley: It seems very American {Natasha laughs}. It's because we watch way too much American TV {Natasha laughs}, especially political ones and you always see them with worms when they're ***. I think 'oh my God, people play so much attention to them...' I’m just like

Moderator 2: Did anyone make an effort to put your eyes above it so you weren't watching the line?

Willem: You had to consciously not watch it, that's what I thought {Natasha and Beverley nod}. And they're sometimes helpful,

Hayley: You see Nigel Farage {gestures as if the worm has a deep drop; laughter all around}

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Willem: it's a helpful technique but it might be nice to have it at some stage, like vote now and everyone can use their things, just have glimpses rather than continuous, because it becomes a bit meaningless eventually I thought. {Natasha shrugs in agreement}

Hayley: Yeah it was only like 50 people.

Moderator 2: Brenda and then Natasha.

Willem: Sorry.

Moderator 2: No, no, you started a great conversation. I had to pull it out. So.

Brenda: Can I just ask what was it for? I didn't know, because I was looking at it thinking is this lies, are they {Willem and Moderator 2 laugh} *** the pitch of the voice? I had no idea what it was for.

Moderator 2: That's a very good question, you're right. I mean, they could have actually been clearer by showing that if it's warmer it would be red and blue would be cold and yellow in the middle. Then you could get, that would be infer it was a hot and cold... Basically people were pressing up for ‘I like this’ and down for’ I don't’, so even with, they kept changing the colours, which I find very confusing, they should… you had on the worm

Natasha: All it did was every time somebody said something nice it went up and every time somebody said something that wasn't nice it went down, which was kind of predictable, but because it was British it never went down to where I really dislike this. It went down to like ‘I’m not as impressed with this as I could possibly be’... {laughter}

PERFORMANCE MARKSModerator 2: I’ve just found our pull quote for the press release. {laughter} ***. Alright And what I'd like to do now is go through the marks that you gave, and start with A and work our way down. ****In terms of As, did anyone get an A on their performance?

Willem: On the final round?

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Moderator 2: The final, final mark.

Willem: I did, because Sturgeon is an A to B

Moderator 2: Okay, okay *** A.5 or A+

Brenda: ***

Moderator 2: Who?

Brenda: Nicola Sturgeon.

Moderator 2: Okay Nicola Sturgis’ got, Sturgeon, not Sturgis, It’s the last bit it comes out as Sturge- *** {Natasha chuckles}. How about Bs?

Natasha: Natalie.

Dele: I’ve got As for, sorry, I’ve got As for overall for Nicola Sturgeon.

Moderator 2: Okay, so we've got two Nicolas and Natalie. And then Bs? Oh, oh sorry. That was A. So now B. Go ahead

Hayley: I gave Ed Miliband a B and Nicola Sturgeon was kind of between, yeah, she’s kind of between B and C. It was probably more towards the B side than towards the C; its kind of like a B- {smiles; Natasha and Brenda laugh}.

Willem: I gave Natalie Bennett a solid B.

Dele: I also gave Natalie Bennett and Leanne Wood B.

Moderator 2: Okay.

Beverley: ***

Brenda: I gave Wood a B.

Moderator 2: Have you gone or, *** Just making sure. Okay. Did you do your piece.

Willem: Yeah, I finished it.

Moderator 2: Okay. I know the tape has it. Cs.

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Willem: I gave Leanne Wood a B to a C but more on C side, and I gave Ed Miliband a C.

Dele: I also gave Ed Miliband a C.

Hayley: I gave Natalie Bennett and Leanne Wood a C.

Natasha: I gave Leanne Wood a C and Nigel Farage a C.

Moderator 2: Oh!

Brenda: Leanne, Natalie and Nicola, Cs.

Beverley: Natalie and Nigel {Brenda and Moderator 2 chuckle}

Moderator 2: And D?

Willem: Yes, I gave Nigel, well I said C to D but I think probably D.

Hayley: I gave Nigel Farage a D.

Dele: I gave him an F {laughter}.

Natasha: I gave Ed Miliband a D

Brenda: Nigel

Moderator 2: And any Fs?

Dele: I gave him an F {laughter}.

Moderator 2: Yeah, yeah, I got your F. I just want to see if there were any others. You guys are *** {laughter}, different from our last group. They were more brutal. Well I guess then all that is left to do is thank you guys for your time and your effort and your work, and I hope you guys found this interesting and enjoyable. When we come back post-election we would like to invite you to the post-election focus groups. {interruption off camera} Yeah, we won’t do that *** As soon as we figure out the dates we will be in touch so you can see whether it fits in your calendar. And this time because there is no debate it will £30 *** rather than £40. But we would really love to hear if you voted in the election, if you did what did you think about ***, the results, what might happen afterwards. To thank Edzia and Gareth for running it and helping us out

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and thank you guys again so much for your time and we will be in touch. You’re already paid, you’re free! Thank you.

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