WADING INTO THE WANDJINA CONTROVERSY - ANU College of … · 2012. 11. 4. · I asked Vesna Tenodi...

Broadcast:Tuesday 29 June 2010 8:30AM (view full episode)

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WADING INTO THE WANDJINA CONTROVERSY

There's an unfolding controversy swirling around a two-metre, eight-tonne sculpture with the title Wandjina Watchers in theWhispering Stone.The sculpture sits in the front yard of a wellness and art centre in Katoomba, but has ignited passions all the way from the chillyBlue Mountains to the searing deserts of the Kimberley in WA.Indigenous groups are furious that the artist did not seek permission before using what they regard as sacred imagery. Both sidesare now mounting a battle with a number of legal dimensions including copyright, planning approval, even freedom of religion.View comments (116)

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TranscriptDamien Carrick: Hello, welcome to the Law Report.Today, a sculpture that has ignited passions all the way from the chilly Blue Mountains of New South Wales, all the way to thesearing deserts of the Kimberley, in WA.It's an artwork that throws into sharp relief a number of diverse legal issues around copyright, and around planning processes. Andalso how we balance group cultural rights with the rights of individuals.Vesna Tenodi owns a business known as the ModroGorje Wellness and Art Centre in the main street of Katoomba, in the BlueMountains. In March, she unveiled a sculpture in the front yard of the centre. The sculpture is titled, Wandjina Watchers in theWhispering Stone.Now wandjinas are creation spirits central to the belief systems and the cultural practices of three Indigenous groups in theKimberley. And many Indigenous Australians are now furious with Vesna Tenodi. They say she should not have used the sacredimagery of the Wandjina without permission of the custodians of that traditional knowledge.For its part, the Blue Mountains City Council has required Vesna Tenodi to lodge a development application to obtain planningapproval for the artwork. Interested parties have one month, starting from last Wednesday, to lodge their views.I asked Vesna Tenodi to tell me about the ModroGorje Wellness and Art Centre in Katoomba.Vesna Tenodi: Well it is our home, with our private art collection open to the public for public enjoyment, and with the sculpture infront of our house. And that is a part of our Dream Raisers project which has the aim to raise awareness about the decline ofspirituality in the world and help people reconnect with important concepts and universal laws.Damien Carrick: So it was a new age shop or gallery or centre, is that the correct way to describe it?Vesna Tenodi: No, it wasn't called new age, because it's over-used and it has become meaningless. Let's call it an art centre andwellness centre.Damien Carrick: Well tell me about this sculpture. How big is it and what does it look like and where is it placed?Vesna Tenodi: The rock is a local sandstone, an eight and a half tonne block. It's two metres high, which I'm proud to say is thelargest sculpture ever carved by a single artist in Australia. And I got Ben Osvath, a Sydney painter, and sculptor, to do the stone,and when we were talking about the design of the stone, I need to say that as an archaeologist, I was always fascinated with cavepaintings and rock carvings in Europe, and my degree thesis was Spirituality of Neolithic Man. So we viewed all that together, andthen he carved four, five of the stones which are a combination of sculpture and a mural. And every side has wandjina on it,representing particular idea and particular law, and it's called Wandjina Watchers in the Whispering Stone.Damien Carrick: Now I understand that some people from the Kimberley region of WA, from where the Wandjina knowledge comesfrom, they've been very, very critical of this sculpture. What do you make of those criticisms?Vesna Tenodi: I wouldn't know about that because they haven't approached me or told me or put it in writing, any objections thatthey might have. All that we experienced is violence and vandalism by a few local angry Aborigines. And so I wouldn't know whatpeople think because once they start screaming profanities in our face and making death threats, I stop listening.Damien Carrick: So the sculpture was unveiled I think in March this year. What has happened since the unveiling of the sculpture?Vesna Tenodi: On 5th March the sculpture was vandalised, one day before official unveiling. And we went to have its unveilingnevertheless, and now it stays there as it is. It was supposed to represent reconciliation and celebration of Aboriginal spirituality, butnow it has turned into a sign of some people's violence and inability to express their opinion in a civilised way.Damien Carrick: I think you would say that you've done this for Aboriginal people and for reconciliation; does it worry you thoughthat the communities for whom the Wandjina spirits are important don't like the sculpture?Vesna Tenodi: Well it's not what we planned, let's put it that way. And I did make numerous attempts to reach them and to obtaintheir co-operation and I kept advising them as a matter of courtesy and hoping for their participation. So if they're unhappy, I don'tknow why, because in my mind this is a non-issue. There is no copyright on prehistoric imagery, and no-one can prohibit any artistto explore the design, or to express themselves or to be influenced or inspired, and this happens all the time. And I can recognise incontemporary art or sculpture, the work, I can recognise exactly the prehistoric figurine that they're inspired by, it's so obvious, and I

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would never hold it against them that they draw inspiration from Egyptian tradition, or Greek mythology, or Roman gods. I mean likecave paintings in Europe, Altamira or Lascaux, or the beautiful cave art that belongs to let's say the same time as Australian art.They are listed on UNESCO's World Heritage List, and that makes sense in my mind, because it does belong to the world, and toclaim ownership, any individual or group or nation to claim ownership of those is simply ludicrous.Damien Carrick: Some people are saying that look, maybe we should change the law in terms of the way it deals with culturalknowledge and the use of images and concepts and styles which are owned collectively by individual groups, and we should havetighter rules around non-indigenous people who want to use those images and styles. What do you say to that? What issues doesthat raise for you?Vesna Tenodi: Well for me, that sounds like reverse racism. You're white, you have no right to, you know—my husband isCaucasian European, a Croat who teaches tai chi, and Eastern martial arts, and he's not Chinese and he has a lot of Chinesestudents. So what does it mean, that everybody has to stick to their own culture and is prohibited from exploring imagerythat—when you say collective., they belong, collectively, to the world. So I don't understand how could anyone claim a symbol, animage, an idea, or this is my understanding that intellectual property law does not allow anyone to copyright an idea, and how canyou claim ownership of God, and Wandjinas are gods.Damien Carrick: So you're saying that all people should have a right to use the symbols and imagery which they feel speak tothem?Vesna Tenodi: Absolutely. And every artist has the right to explore and express the divine, and I mean expression or artisticfreedom or freedom of religion, every basic human freedom would then be trampled on. So I don't think that—that's a ludicrousproposition.Damien Carrick: Vesna Tenodi, who commissioned the controversial two-metre, eight-tonne sculpture known as WandjinaWatchers in the Whispering Stone. It stands in the front yard of her property on the main street of Katoomba.Vesna says the Wandjina spirits communicate with her, and the initiative for the sculpture came from the Wandjina spirits.Donny Woolagoodja is a traditional elder from the Kimberley. In March he visited Katoomba to see the sculpture for himself. He wasvery upset by what he saw.Donny Woolagoodja: Well I thought it was very wrong to do something that somebody put...did not belong to her. You know, it wasour Dreaming, and - very angry about. It's not her image and people that use our images,they don't really know all about it.Damien Carrick: Can you tell me why it's wrong for her to use the images?Donny Woolagoodja: Well I mean it's not belong to her, it's not her Dreaming. It belongs to us. Our ancestors had it before anywestern people came to Australia.Damien Carrick: Vesna Tenodi says she's not trying to be disrespectful, she just wants to promote understanding, or raiseawareness of Aboriginal knowledge and wisdom. What do you say to that argument?Donny Woolagoodja: It's not hers to use. It's like I'm going using somebody's things in their propertyand you just can't do thatanymore. I can't do that to somebody else's image.Damien Carrick: When you visited Katoomba, did you try to speak with Vesna?Donny Woolagoodja: No, I didn't, because I just looked at her and I could see right through her, because she's not the right womanto talk to.Damien Carrick: Right. So you felt that you just couldn't engage with her because she had done the community wrong.Donny Woolagoodja: Yes. But in my side of law when I hear somebody that has not the right to use our images,you can feel it, it'slike Wandjina is like part of us.Damien Carrick: She tells me that she wanted to sit down and talk with you, but you felt that was inappropriate?Donny Woolagoodja: Yes. It's not for me to talk, you know, I mean I have to come back to the main group and I asked them whatthey think and they didn't want me to talk to her.Damien Carrick: Is there anything else that you want to say to people so they can understand the perspective of the people of theKimberley on this issue?Donny Woolagoodja: Well a lot of people misuse our images; it's not right and like they come and talk to the rightful people andget a permission for using it.Damien Carrick: I think Vesna says that she tried to contact the people at Mowanjum artists, so your organisation, to talk withpeople, for about six months before she unveiled the sculpture, and she said she wasn't able to talk to people there. Why was that?Because you didn't feel it was appropriate?Donny Woolagoodja: They refused, they didn't want anybody to use it and she just went ahead and do it.Damien Carrick: Vesna would argue that, well, we all have freedom of religion and freedom of expression and if people feel aconnection to something, then they should be able to express that. What do you say to that argument?Donny Woolagoodja: Oh, well, not really, I mean it's not free for anybody to use it. We have to control it because if one person canuse it, well then the whole world would use it, so you've got to be very careful what you're doing..Damien Carrick: Kimberley elder Donny Woolagoodja.Jenny Wright is the manager of the Mowanjum Arts and Cultural Centre in Derby, WA. She works closely with Donny and other


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members of the local Indigenous community.Jenny Wright: I think it's a really interesting issue, Damien, because what I see is a real culture clash going on, and what I see isremote Indigenous people having very little protection under Australian law for the sort of things that have happened. And I must saythat it caused great offence and great pain to the people here, because the Wandjina image to them is sacred imagery, and I think Iprobably have a point of view that my grandmother may have understood the point of view of the people here much more than mygeneration, or younger generations would have. Because I think we've started to lose that idea of sacred imagery. You know, mygrandma would have been absolutely horrified at a T-shirt with the Virgin Mary on it, but you can get a T-shirt with the Virgin Mary orBuddha or Krishna or whoever you like on it today, you know, down any market. So we've kind of lost that idea of imagery beingsacred and imagery having power. But the people in Mowanjum and the three language groups who have Wandjina as their law,their belief system, that's how they depict the creation spirit, it's immensely important to them, it's immensely emotionally important tothem for their wellbeing. They feel if it's misused in any way, you know, ill can befall people, and they have very strong beliefs in thatway.So this case has been a really interesting illustration I think, of that culture clash, if you like.Damien Carrick: Vesna Tenodi would say look, this controversy raises fundamental issues around what she would say is freedomof expression, freedom of religion, the ability to express what you believe in your heart. What would be your response to thatargument?Jenny Wright: It's interesting, isn't it? I think one part of me would say, Vesna we've taken everything from these people, we'vetaken their land, we've taken their language, we've destroyed their culture. Are we going to take their religion too? It just seems tome, and I know I'm making a very strong statement here, but I do feel this in my heart, that it just seems to me that that's so grosslyunfair, and as an Australian I think you should feel ashamed of yourself, seriously. Appropriation of absolutely everything. Is therenothing left of these people that we won't take? Really, I'm sorry Vesna, if you see yourself as a spiritual person, I'm sorry I can'thave that point of view of this behaviour, I really can't. It's insensitive to the extreme.Damien Carrick: It does raise interesting issues, because I think you're correct in identifying this as a moral and ethical issue,because if the law stepped in, I mean it might take us to strange places, or strange results.Jenny Wright: Our copyright law, intellectual property law is set up to protect individual rights, and this is again an example ofculture clash, because traditional Indigenous culture is communal, and the rights are felt to be communal. What Donny was talkingabout is the communal rights of his tribal group, the three tribal groups, who have the right to work with Wandjina imagery becauseit's their law. Anyone from traditional Aboriginal communities would understand that totally. But we live in a really different paradigm,we don't think like that, we're very much individual-rights-driven, and I think that's also one of the enormous differences betweenIndigenous culture and mainstream white culture.Damien Carrick: Jenny Wright, manager of the Mowanjum Arts Centre in Derby. She recently contacted the Arts Law Centre ofAustralia to seek advice about possible legal responses to the Katoomba sculpture.Lawyer Robyn Ayres is the executive director of the Arts Law Centre. She says it's certainly not the first time an Indigenouscommunity has been distressed by the use of sacred imagery or knowledge by non-Indigenous artists.Robyn Ayres: We've seen examples where rock art, which is thousands of years old, has been used or appropriated—which wesee all the time in the tourism industry, all sorts of ways. We've had examples where artists' work's been reproduced in veryinappropriate ways, colours changed, all those sorts of things happen. We've had examples where non-Indigenous artists, perhapshave had some sort of connection with an Indigenous community, or in a relationship with an Indigenous partner, decides to makework in the style of Aboriginal art which causes great concern. There's lots and lots of different examples that come up on a fairlyfrequent basis.Damien Carrick: I understand that there have been some cases where non-Indigenous people have gone into Indigenouscommunities, written down the stories that they've been told, and then published say a children's book based on those Dreamingstories, and tried to obtain copyright on those Dreaming stories. That sounds pretty inappropriate.Robyn Ayres: Well it is very inappropriate, but it happens all the time. There are so many examples where non-Indigenous peoplehave gone into Indigenous communities and been given access to stories or styles of working and have just appropriated that intotheir own and either written a book or maybe artwork, or filmed the people without sort of thinking what are the cultural issuesinvolved in this; is this appropriate? And that causes a lot of distress.Damien Carrick: And I understand that there have been cases in the past where Indigenous people have actually gone to theACCC and lodged complains of misleading and deceptive conduct. What sorts of cases have there been n the past along thoselines?Robyn Ayres: With misleading and deceptive conduct you have to show that the conduct has misled the public, that there's somesort of endorsement or support, or a connection with an Aboriginal community, or Aboriginal people, around a particular product orservice. So for example, if you're selling an artwork and there's been cases around the tourism industry where you're selling tourismproducts which have been said to be Aboriginal made, and they're in fact not being made by Aboriginal people, then that would bean example of misleading and deceptive conduct.So if you're trying to show that there is some particular connection with an Aboriginal community, or that it has the support of the


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Aboriginal community, then that would maybe form the basis for a Section 52 action.Damien Carrick: And in terms of—is that something you'd consider in this case? Is that something which you'll be seekinginstructions from your client about?Robyn Ayres: Look I think that's certainly something that needs to be looked at, whether there is a potential that people are beingmisled and deceived, that there is some endorsement or some connection with the Aboriginal community around that particularsculpture.Damien Carrick: Lawyer Robyn Ayres, executive director of the Arts Law Centre of Australia.You're listening to the Law Report on ABC Radio National. I'm Damien Carrick. Today a controversial sculpture, Wandjina Watchersin the Whispering Stone, which sits in the front garden of a private property on the main street of Katoomba in the Blue Mountains.So far we've been speaking about the intellectual property issues surrounding the sculpture and responses of the Indigenouspeople of the Kimberley. But for Vesna Tenodi there is a bigger legal issue, one that is much closer to home and much moreimmediate.The unveiling of the sculpture angered many local Indigenous people in the Blue Mountains. Shortly after the unveiling, the art workwas vandalised. And Vesna Tenodi says she has received death threats from members of the local Indigenous community, theDarug people. Vesna Tenodi believes an atmosphere of intimidation has silenced her many supporters in the local community andspurred the local council to set in motion unnecessary and complex planning processes.I spoke with several Darug people. They say they understand the hurt of the Kimberley people and want them to know that theDarug do not approve of the sculpture. The people I spoke to say they don't know who vandalised the stone, but acknowledge thatsome people are very angry.It appears that relations between Vesna Tenodi and the local Indigenous people have deteriorated for a number of reasons.In addition to the sculpture some local Indigenous people are incensed by, a recent book, authored by Vesna Tenodi with the titleDreamtime Set in Stone.They're also incensed by a recent exhibition of Wandjina paintings at the Modrogorya Wellness and Art Centre done bynon-Indigenous artist, Gina Sinozich.And they're also angry at the Wandjina Rising Dream Art Competition, which invites artists from across Europe and Australia toenter Wandjina themed artworks.For her part, Vesna Tenodi is perplexed by the hostility of Indigenous people to what she describes as an attempt to celebrate theWandjinas and spread the word about Aboriginal spirituality.Over the next month, opponents and supporters alike will be able to make submissions in relation to her development application,which is before local council.Vesna Tenodi: The council got concerned that they have to appear super politically correct, and they reacted with speed of light toAboriginal complaints. And I said, OK, fine, we'll comply, and we lodged a development application which is now being processed.Damien Carrick: The Darug people say they plan to participate in the local council planning process by lodging objections to boththe sculpture and also the ModroGorje Wellness and Art Centre.Professor Kath Bowrey is an intellectual property expert who's based at the University of New South Wales Law School. She livesin the Katoomba area. She notes that this isn't the first time that a piece of public art has come to the attention of the local council.Kath Bowrey: I think these are really, really important issues, and I also think that generally we should be very careful aboutwanting to regulate forms of cultural expression and restricting people's freedom to actually produce particular works. But my view isthat with this particular work it's not just a case of the actual freedom of expression of the work, but also the siting of the actualwork, because whilst it's actually on private land, it's clearly a public statement, and clearly designed to be in the face of the public,if you like, and usually this is a type of activity that we do regulate, and it's interesting to compare the response to this particularartwork, which is perceived very much in terms of simply the private rights of artists, to other artworks in the mountains and howthey've been treated.We've had another example here where there was a derelict block of land which had an old petrol station on it, and it had a lot ofgraffiti on the disused garage doors, and a local aerosol artist approached the owners, and with permission, painted a large imageof Che Guevara on one of the panels, and a picture of Mike the rapper on the other. And...Damien Carrick: From the Beastie Boys, yes?Kath Bowrey: From the Beastie Boys, yes, right. And in that particular case a resident apparently complained to council abouthaving a Che Guevara image in display in a publicly prominent place as a gateway to the mountains, and the council's response inthat scenario was immediately to order the owner to paint over the image on the basis that they didn't have a developmentapplication for a mural. That was perceived by many in the community and there were letters to the local newspaper and voting onthe newspaper website as to be an outrageous action and interference in the artist's freedom in that particular case. But the artworkwas reluctantly painted over by the owner, who wasn't prepared to basically deal with the whole question about how to actually getplanning permission for it, and also it was a building which was eventually going to be demolished for road widening, so for them itwasn't worth the effort.But what is interesting to me about that in that case, there was no discussion anywhere of the aerosol artist's freedom, it was an


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PresenterDamien Carrick

GuestsVesna TenodiOwner of the ModroGorje Wellness and Art Centre in KatoombaDonny WoolagoodjaTraditional elder from the Kimberley region of Western AustraliaJenny WrightManager of the Mowanjum Arts Centre in Derby, Western AustraliaRobyn AyresExecutive director of the Arts Law Centre of AustraliaProfessor Kathy BowreyIntellectual property expert at the University of NSW Law SchoolTerri JankeIndigenous Lawyer and intellectual property expert

Credits

artwork which was generally quite well received but on the basis of one complaint by an unknown resident, council springs intoaction and requires that piece of artwork to be removed.Damien Carrick: Professor Kath Bowrey. And it remains to be seen how the planning process will unfold in this case.Indigenous lawyer Terri Janke is also an intellectual property expert. She's followed the Katoomba controversy with great interest.She reckons we need to think again about how we deal with cultural knowledge.Terri Janke: There's limitations within the copyright system anyway, even if we do say let's have Indigenous communal moral rightsin copyright; we're going to have the issue of the fact that copyright will only protect works in material form; we're also going to havethe fact that copyright only lasts for 70 years after the death of the artist, where in cultural law, this is in perpetuity. So I thinksomething like the Pacific model, or the protection of traditional knowledge and expressions of culture and the WIPO (WorldIntellectual Property Organisation) draft provisions on protection of traditional cultural expression, they're all looking at protection fortraditional cultural expression, so there will be like visual forms, beliefs, dance, you know, traditional songs—all of those that comefrom a particular geographic region or a community will be protected. I think that a law that gives traditional owners a right to controltraditional cultural expression, you know, even requiring the prior informed consent to create something like the sculpture, or youknow, to include it in a book or a film, is something that we should have at law, particularly works that are of sacred significance andthat are secret.The importance of keeping that connection to culture, the cultural expression, is important for Indigenous people to survive as apeople, and you can see very clearly rights being articulated in Article 31 of the Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People. Ithink that it is about survival of cultures, very strongly connected to people's rights in land and particularly when you're looking atfigures, creation beings, that is at the heart of Indigenous peoples' whole existence. So you might think that you're only copying itand making an artwork, but if you really, really understood the spiritual and religious significance of those images, you wouldunderstand that they are coming from a place and a community, a living community.Damien Carrick: Can I play Devil's advocate with you? Vesna Tenodi says look, she genuinely believes that she communicateswith Wandjina spirits and she would argue that this is her belief system, and we can't have other people saying you can't believe,you can't express your beliefs. It's a question of freedom of expression, even freedom of religion perhaps.Terri Janke : Well what is the impact of that? You know, it's a balancing of rights, individual rights, with other people's rights, andhow that impacts on communities. I think here you need to look at how that impacts with the cultural rights of these traditionalcustodians of the Wandjina to continue to practise their culture. It's about balancing that. All freedom of expression is measured. It'snot just about getting permission in copyright, but you know, there's defamation laws, there's blasphemy and you can see debatesthere, that being a very Christian based law that protected any sort of demeaning representations to Christian religion, and I don'tthink that Indigenous spirituality has been recognised to the level of Christianity.Damien Carrick: It's fascinating, because I suppose with the Wandjina images, they were used in the Sydney Olympics, theybecame very much a public symbol of Australia, when that beautiful image arose in the opening ceremony of the Sydney Olympics.It's hard sometimes then to put that back in the can, or take that back into the domain or the reserve of the three communities in theKimberley when it's been out there and used widely in some ways, in some contexts.Terri Janke: And that's always the contention in this area. I mean you see Indigenous art being a $400 million per annum industryand Indigenous artists have developed their skills and are really eager to be part of that. It's a very thriving industry. But on the otherhand there's this...like by making it popular, that it may be taken out of context, derogatorily treated, and your clan may no longer benamed or connected with it. So that in some circumstances that I have seen makes people want to say, 'Well I won't share myculture with the wider world because this respect for culture, these cultural protocols, are not recognised at law .'Damien Carrick: Indigenous lawyer Terri Janke.That's the Law Report for this week.


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Comments (116)Add your commentSolarn :29 Jun 2010 8:47:43amI am listing to this issue, and wondering why the indigenous people think that they can stop everyone else from being part of their culture. Thenative Americans are bought to mind... we use lots of their imagery in our culture now, including dream catchers. This promotes the culture andthe indigenous Australians should be out there promoting their culture to promote greater understanding instead of hiding it away from everyoneelse.I hope that people will see that this is my opinion and is not an attack at the indigenous people themselves.

Tim.Nash :29 Jun 2010 1:06:03pmThis is about keeping something sacred.

It's not about sharing, if it where then that culture would not be distinct to aboriginal people.

Now you can either attempt to preserve that, or plunder it.

ntn001 :29 Jun 2010 11:23:03pmSolarn, I don't think any Aboriginal person wants to lock away their culture. But, is it not their right to choose how it is shared? How it isrepresented and used? You want to use the imagery and cultural forms? Learn to understand them? Try and learn their meaning and the impactof sharing them beyond knowledge men and women.

When Anungu ask tourists to not climb Uluru sections of Australia are strident in their opposition and outrage that they want to lock up TheRock. When the Kamilaroi wanted the resting place of the ranbow serpant protected at Boobera Lagoon, the speedboat and skiing communitywere outraged. Yet, when we try to climb your cathedrals and Parliament House and Opera House, sections of the community are equally asoutraged at our disrespectful behaviour. The hypocracy is palpable.

I must declare that I am a Dharug man (although I no longer live in Sydney). I recall my Grandmother being very distressed at another Godbeing honoured in Dharug country. Nothing could be done, but it was distressing to her anyway.

Jenny Wright has stated it best when she said non-Indigenous Australians have taken everything and now you want to take our belief systemstoo. (Please note, it appears from this story that this is not being borrowed and used appropriately. It is being taken and appropriated forcommercial reasons.) If you cannot understand Jenny's point then further explanation is a waste of valuable oxygen.

DF :06 Jul 2010 3:33:59amI think Jenny Wright (or Wrong as the case may be) is another apologist. I assume from her comments that she is white herself. As she is paidby the organisation and doesnt work for free, does she feel that she is exploiting them in being paid ?

If as an earlier comment was made that these groups had no white contact until 70 years ago does the things she said - that we STOLE theirlanguage (they no longer speak it ??), we STOLE blah blah blah .. How did we steal it ?

Stealing implies that someone else saw some value in something and took it from them so that they could no longer use it. This is obviously a lieand Jenny the sanctamonious one should be the one who is ashamed.

It is like the picture on the website of the art organisation which shows the artists - they are wearing t-shirts and other white man's clothes - didthey steal them ? Were they inspired to wear them as opposed to native clothes that they wore before having any white contact only 70 yearsago ? No I don't think that they do. Suggesting that someone or a group have some sole right to tell someone else what they can believe in or beinspired by is more of the hand wringing rubbish that will never allow reconciliation.

It is like asking Aborigines to pay rent for being allowed access to a first world democracy instead of the less than third world that they hadbefore the arrival of Cook.

recher :


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29 Jun 2010 8:56:01amWandjina figures are not image(s) exclusive to Aboriginal spirituality.

Exactly the same are found in Amazonia.

The common link being the elixir of dream time: Dimethyltryptamine and allies.

carpedmt :29 Jun 2010 4:10:54pmand curiously DMT is the active alkaloid in the leaves of certain acacia or "bush medicine" trees as they are known in the central desert, wherepainters in the utopia community depict "bush medicine dreaming" all is one...

jane :29 Jun 2010 9:00:31amWANDJINA CONTROVERSYI'd be interested to hear Alison Page's (Inventors judge and public artist etc.) comments on this topic.

Daremo :05 Jul 2010 5:59:53pmWhy she is not Aboriginal is she? A few years ago she was claiming to be something else - how can this be?

Now she is a Tharawal woman, a Wodi Wodi woman.

Or is it because she is on the ABC?

jon elbourne :29 Jun 2010 9:01:56amI would like to ask for all Namatjira weatern style paintings to be removed from art galleries everywhere as they offend my western traditionalright to represtational art.As an atheist, do I not have the right to criticise aboriginal religion in the same way that I criticise western religions? If Tonedi is extractingmoney from people by exploiting aboriginal spirituality that too is deplorable.

Jenny H. :06 Jul 2010 11:40:03amAccording to her website Vesna Tenodi is planning to make money form all of this as she has announced that 'products' will be available soon.Jon just because you and other non Aboriginal people have proclaimed your right to criticise Aboriginal religion does not mean that people havea right to steal from a culture that has specifically requested people leave their Wandjina image where it belongs -with them and in theKimberly's - unless it is shared by consensus for reasons of unity and ceremony as we saw with the Olympics

Matthew :29 Jun 2010 11:16:23amThe case & the comments highlight the need for Australia to implement Article 31 of the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples:

1. Indigenous peoples have the right to maintain, control, protect and develop their cultural heritage, traditional knowledge and traditional culturalexpressions, as well as the manifestations of their sciences, technologies and cultures, including human and genetic resources, seeds,medicines, knowledge of the properties of fauna and flora, oral traditions, literatures, designs, sports and traditional games and visual andperforming arts. They also have the right to maintain, control, protect and develop their intellectual property over such cultural heritage,traditional knowledge, and traditional cultural expressions.

2. In conjunction with indigenous peoples, States shall take effective measures to recognize and protect the exercise of these rights.

Tim.Nash :29 Jun 2010 1:01:34pmAs a graphic designer I had a good ponder about this subject.

I agree that Neolithic art and indigenous art should be accessible to artists, to draw inspiration from.

However I also agree that we should pay respects to the indigenous people and what meaning they have in the artwork.

When we take inspiration from a neolithic artwork from France, maybe we should consider how the the Koori today respond with horror whenwe use these images and pause for thought.


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These sacred images for aboriginal people are like images of Mohammad for Muslims, it isn’t illegal to use it…but it’s a simple case ofsensitivity.

Marianne :29 Jun 2010 8:29:14pmWhat a very eurocentritc, disrespectiful woman Tenodi is.No wonder the Aboriginal people of Katoomba and the owners of the Wandjina are so angry - she represents everything that is dominating anddistasteful about the european invasion into Aboriginal society.

Those universal laws Tenodi talks about will not exclude her appalling behaviour, that is for sure!

Jelena :02 Jul 2010 2:34:10am"the owners of the Wandjina"?!?! Does that mean that Vesna and "her" people are the owners of Jesus?

Mick Hedges :06 Jul 2010 1:54:04amFair dinkum Jelena you show complete arrogance and ignorance when it comes to understanding the complexities of the sacred imagery andsong-lines that cover this Dreamtime country.You mention elsewhere that your are Croatian and I suggest to you that you get yourself educated and show respect for the traditional ownersof this country you obviously don't understand or respect.Bottom line is things are done differently in this country, they were for thousands and thousands of years and it is the very attitude and behaviorof people like you and Vesna that have brought such grief and misery upon the first nation people of this country.Think about it! Why else is there so much anger from Australians, Aboriginal and non Aboriginal about what Vesna Tenodi is doing in this latestround of cultural theft and misappropriation?

Katina :30 Jun 2010 8:29:43amI am a member of the Worora language group which is one of the three groups in the Kimberley which have the Wandjina as their dreaming.

I think the comparisons with prehistoric art in Europe are ludicrous. The first contact with Europeans for our peoples happened in the last 70years. The religious meaning and symbolism of the Wandjina is fresh and clear and current for us.

This is an extremely sacred image and we find it highly offensive when it is used by unauthorised people. It does cause us distress. This imageis part of us and we are supposed to protect it. I was close to tears when I heard this on the radio.

Mick Hedges :06 Jul 2010 2:05:53amKatina I am very sorry your mob have been treated so poorly and that you have had your law and culture disrespected his way.

I pay my respect to your Elders and I am appalled that this kind of ignorance and refusal to listen can still go on in these times. Make meashamed to be a white fella!I recognise the Wandjina as sacred to you and that it belongs in the Kimberly region and know that there is a bigger law that than the man madeones that allow for this kind of carry on.

Nandi :30 Jun 2010 12:56:00pmVesna Tenodi's psuedo spirituality shows her ignorance of the country in which she lives. Why did she not consult local Aboriginal people aboutthe dreaming symbols of the Blue Mountains area? To take the Wandjina out of the Kimberley is wrong. Its all very well to say we should allshare our spiritual values but until Australian Aborigines have a fair share of the wealth, health of the country that they traditionally own, actionslike Tenodi's only serve to perpetuate 200 years of theft, violence and repression.Vesna take the statue down and educate yourself rather thanassuming that a little bit of this and a little bit of that makes a spiritual life.

DF :06 Jul 2010 3:22:20amNandi ..

Off your soapbox before you break it.

What a joke .. so any Australian that is not a catholic or Anglican is engaging in psuedo spirituality ?


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Tell all the Muslims and Budhists etc that are in Australia that you deem them to be psuedo spiritual people .. what ignorance from some of thecomments on this blog.

Glad I don't bother listening to this program usually .. what a waste of time seeing the comments some clowns make.

spud :30 Jun 2010 1:14:12pmthanks to the law report for bringing this issue to us all. This lady is exploiting the indigineous people of Australia for her own benefit. May isuggest someone in her area buys a tarp or tarps and covers this thing up. Plant a sheoak in front of it. Local government, or even the Federalor NSW should step in here and tell this person to remove what is offensive to so many people!!!!!

Peter :30 Jun 2010 5:39:33pmThese words spoken by Vesna Tenodi sums it all up:

"There is no copyright on prehistoric imagery, and no-one can prohibit any artist to explore the design, or to express themselves or to beinfluenced or inspired, and this happens all the time."

Contrary to what your alleged communications with the sacred beings back by white mans laws are telling you are telling you, Aboriginal Cultureis a living culture it is not prehistoric and your offending behavior is relevant to today in the here and now.

To assume that because Europeans have made up these rules about stealing symbols and have an artists narcissistic right to explore what hadbeen created by others in a deeply sacred context and to EXPLOIT that and that somehow makes the Aboriginal people unreasonable is aclassic example of how European ignorance and arrogance and self appointed authority continues to cause great distress to the people whoyou allege you are seeking to represent.The invasion into Aboriginal culture continues on relentlessly.

What terrible conduct form someone who does not even have her roots in the country she has stolen the image from.

I am deeply sorry that such arrogant ignorance continues without apology and as a non-Aboriginal Australian would like our Black brothers andsisters to know that there are many of us who condemn this disrespectful woman's conduct.

Daremo :05 Jul 2010 5:50:22pmI am deeply sorry for your racist comments about the gallery owner's heritage. I am not Croatian, but I have all of my Croatian brothers andsisters can see it in their hearts to forgive your racist comments.

I am also sorry that you are so naive and gullible.

DF :06 Jul 2010 3:19:10amPeter I think your arrogant ignorance is the disrespectful conduct. Apologise for yourself .. not others who you do not represent.

michael :30 Jun 2010 6:48:51pmMight be worth pointing out that Vesna Tenodi's claim that she "did make numerous attempts to reach them and to obtain their co-operation and Ikept advising them as a matter of courtesy and hoping for their participation" isn't consistent with her explanation last March (fromhttp://www.treatyrepublic.net/content/kimberley-sacred-wandjina-symbol-misused-warning-blatantly-ignored )===============================Asked if she had sought permission to use the image, Tenodi says she did not need to. "It was actually the other way around - the spirits askedme to do this. They asked me to revive the tradition which has turned into dead knowledge, and I agreed."================================

She also says she has "been selected to 'revive the spirituality from which the so-called Aboriginal elders have become so disconnected'."

How she thinks she can respect the culture while heaping such contempt upon the people is beyond me.

Micah :01 Jul 2010 11:07:06amI wonder how Vesna and her husband would appreciate non-Croatians (particularly other Slavic peoples) investigating and depicting Croatianart and culture, whether modern, indigenous, or ancient?She and most other Croatians would undoubtedly take large offense!


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Jelena :02 Jul 2010 2:56:37amDoes that mean that we, the Croats, should prohibit everyone else from using a tie because we invented the cravat in 16th century?

Mendonca :02 Jul 2010 12:51:42pmYes especially if they are parasitizing for greed and are ready to falsify requests. And especially about cravats of all things. You go from thespiritual to the mundane shame on you.Mendonca

Yowie :01 Jul 2010 3:15:05pm"Piss Christ" was insensitive and offended many Christians. The depiction of Muhummad in a cartoon was insensitive and offended manyMuslims. The denial of the holocaust by some is insensitive and offends many Jews. And a depiction of Wanjina is insensitive offends someAboriginals.

Equal treatment for all.

To protect Aboriginal people from offense by dictating what others can and cannot do with symbols that originated in their culture withoutextending this protection to all other groups with sacred symbols just because they happen to be Aboriginal is simply racist.

The best way to protect thse symbols is to educate people to their meaning and cultural significance, not banning the use, or copyright, or deaththreats or fatwas. If people have a better understanding of their context, meaning and significance, then they are less likely to use theminappropriately.

Vera Green :01 Jul 2010 4:31:37pmre ""did make numerous attempts to reach them and to obtain their co-operation"

That statement alone is saturated in assumptions. If Ms Tenodi knew anything about traditional culture and protocols she would know that it is nother place to assume the law keepers would (a) deem her significant enough to discuss sacred matters and (b) be prepared to even considersuch a preposterous misappropriation from a stranger form another part of the world in a part of the country that is not connected to theWandjina.

I am deeply ashamed that a non Aboriginal person who was born else where, is conducting herself in such a manner and regardless of heracademic qualifications can see she is driven by self interest and ignorance, not lest of all because her website announces 'products' will beavailable soon. Shame on you Vena Tendi. Revoking your citizenship would not even begin to repair the damage you have done and thetraditional laws you have broken.

Daremo :05 Jul 2010 5:48:18pmAre you for real? Revoking citizenship for upsetting a group of people who lay claim to the image, but offer nothing more than their say so - palease.

If you want to be angry about something, get angry about the billions spent on the Aboriginal community, and they still live in squalor.

Will you revoke the citizenship of everyone who has commented and discussed the joys of Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Islam etc. Will youkick all of the non-Asians out of the Buddhist temples? I think not.

Slow down, take a breath, and realise you are being used!

Mick Hedges :07 Jul 2010 1:14:02pmI reckon the ones being used are the media by Vesna Tenodi to promote her hallucinations that she is communicating with a mob called ThoseWho Know after stealing the image from those who REALLY know.

Mate, if you think the Aboriginal people 'lay claim to an image but offer nothing more than their say so', youre as ignorant as the woman who isunder the delusion she has had some kind of mystical calling from the spirit world. Take a trip up to Wandjina country for starters, askpermission to speak with the custodians up there and get an education about the country you are living in instead of sitting on your computertalking like a drongo.You mention billions of dollars being spent but believe me, and I am One Who Knows, money will never be a substitute for what is really needed


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in this country to fix this mess. Greed was the cause and money won't be the answer .

Liam :01 Jul 2010 10:15:20pmI'm sure this has been canvassed by someone else with a legal background, but is there no way that a community owned "entity" can beestablished in order for it to own the intellectual property that is being contested here?

And for stories... Given that languages all over the world are under threat, wouldn't a worthy publicly-funded project be for a similar entity to writedown these stories and protect its copyright?

As for Vesna and her "I'm not a spiritual centre" housed sculpture, I hope the Blue Mountains council does to it what it did to Che & the BeastieBoys - rub it out.

Jelena :02 Jul 2010 3:08:45amI've read the book Dreamtime Set in Stone by Vesna Tenodi (and most of you commentators obviously haven't), and I found it delightful! I admirethat lady's courage and integrity, and I was distressed to see what some people say about her, obviously those Who-Do-Not-Know. EverythingI've learned by reading that book and by studying Aboriginal culture is compatible with my own experiences and personal views. I am also veryaware it must be extremely difficult to pass such knowledge on to other people, and such attempts are usually met with hostility and resistance. Ibelieve that's the reason why the Those-Who-Know often stay silent. But this lady speaks up on Their behalf and I think we should all be gratefulto her for daring to go against the current trend. It's hard to understand that Vesna's projects and artists who created such amazing artwork,showing so much love, can be so viciously attacked and met with such hate. People don't understand that she is not in it for the money or fame.I can only hope that people will start thinking for themselves, understand the message, and quit the abuse.

Jeremy :02 Jul 2010 12:32:05pmI am going to assume you are a non-Aboriginal person who found the book 'delightful" Jelena? Your name suggests you may come from thesame cultural group as the author.

Vesna Tenodi has made some abhorrent statements of 'fact' in her view that Aboriginal people have lost their culture, whilst right across Australiathe law men and women continue their work and sacred ceremonies. Just because people don't hear about what happens does not mean it islost for goodness sake!!

For a European woman to come here and write about people she has no relationship with and to offend them deeply by stealing one of theirsacred images that belongs in a specific part of the country is unspeakable.

Far from 'delightful' I can assure you that this fallacious group of "Those Who Know" are the psychobabble of a non Aboriginal woman who hasdelegated herself as an authority on things she has no knowledge of.

There is a move to have this book removed from all libraries in the country based on the lies and untruths being told in its pages.

Phoenix :05 Jul 2010 8:28:54pmmmm Jeremy... sounds very anglo to me.

Bob :06 Jul 2010 10:18:31amYou really don't understand the concept of freedom of speech, do you. What other books do you want banned?

Charlotte :02 Jul 2010 12:36:41pmI borrowed the book from my library Jelena , got half way through the first chapter and realised it is another Mutant Messengers Down Undertype book written by a non Aboriginal person proclaiming knowledge and insights that are highly offensive.

It is a terrible book, poorly written and very offensive to members of our local Aboriginal community.

Margo :17 Jul 2010 2:49:20pmJelena you are saying this woman was asked to speak up on behalf of an invisible group called Those Who Know when the visible, though verylow profile, custodians and creators of the image, those who DO know are ignored, stolen from, and discredited by Vesna Tenodi!! and youthink she is an admirable woman???


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This is despicable. There is no other way to say it and along with her atrocious book that exploits an Aboriginal man who has had a very troubledlife and was excluded from his right to have traditional law and culture is beyond belief. Now she is starting to sell stuff on her web site???Shame on her and her supporters who continue to steal this sacred Being from where it has always belonged!!!

Margo :17 Jul 2010 2:58:40pmPS Margo your self validating statement that you have been "studying" Aboriginal culture from an outsiders, european view point is akin tosaying you know how to build a plane and fly it because you saw one go over head once.

Getting even close to understanding such a sophisticated, cosmologically advanced culture takes years for an Aboriginal child through to adulthood to learn so your proclamation of 'studying' Aboriginal culture has about as much merit as Vesna Tenodi writing a book about people shehas no authority to comment on.

Rose Nooteboom :02 Jul 2010 3:14:10amthoughts that came to mind in point form:

-Neolithic art is European, therefore whites have their own prehistoric culture to draw from ( use our own!).It has not been our belief or culture for thousands of years therefore there are no current guardians to consult or offend.

- If Vesna was so eager to show respect to Aboriginal people and tradition , why did she not pay attention to their need for respect. If shecouldn't get hold of the Kimberley people themselves there are 'white' organisations who could have set her straight ( World Vision for instance)

- "They asked me to revive the tradition which has turned into dead knowledge, and I agreed.", Presumably because the tradition has never diedand is in no need of revival those who have been talking to her must be imposters... perhaps she ought to review her practice.

- Picasso and other modernists were inspired by African art, and made something new: cubist art. The impressionists were inspired byJapanese Art and made something new with it: Impressionism. Influence and inspiration result in something new, not something copied orstolen.None of these artists copied an 'influence' and pawned it off as their own 'expression'.

-So what if the Wandjina were used in the Olympics. It was with permission and should be considered a blessing and a gift to the world by theKimberly people and a privilege, not an excuse to take it and use it indiscriminately.

Rose Nooteboom :02 Jul 2010 1:46:49pm"What terrible conduct from someone who does not even have her roots in the country she has stolen the image from.""from a stranger from another part of the world in a part of the country that is not connected to the Wandjina." ( Peter)

"I am deeply ashamed that a non Aboriginal person who was born else where, is conducting herself in such a manner" "Revoking yourcitizenship would not even begin to repair the damage you have done and the traditional laws you have broken."(Vera Green)

No matter how much I disagree with and depise her and the artist's choices, Vesna's choices have nothing to do with her being a new immigrantand they are in no way to be used as an excuse to indulge in the ignorance of racism and xenophobia.

What arrogance.What denial. Some Australians who are born here, and perhaps from families who have been here for a few generations haveenough to answer for in their maltreatment of Aboriginal people.

Mick Hedges :06 Jul 2010 1:39:03amWell I am with Peter and Vera! When Aboriginal Australia was invaded back in 1788 it was the European attitude of 'whats yours is mine and I'lltake it as I please" that created so much of this on going mess.

Vesna Tenodi is doing exactly the same thing and as far as I am concerned her stealing of sacred imagery is not welcome in this country.Nothing to do with xenophobia, just a fact that someone born on the other side of the word has come to this country and unapologetically stolenwhat is not hers. i don't care where she is from! Her behaviour is shameful.

Just because Australians also act like a mob of idiots when it comes to respecting Aboriginal rights doesn't mean it is okay for someone whowas born elsewhere but has arrived with the view that she has the right to speak for the ancient inhabitants and steal their art work to boot,to dothe same!


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I think her attitude has a lot to do with believing in the superiority of Europeans over Aborigines and thats why she has taken what is not hers, isgetting ready to make products to sell (check out her web page),has announced a Wandjina 'competition' to encourage others to make parodiesof the image as she has done. It's an outrage!! and this woman has done zilch to contribute to her new country in a respectful way.

Daremo :05 Jul 2010 5:40:30pmWell, I just love the comments and vitriol against one person.

A couple of questions:

Why is equality and equal opportunity always not?Why can't she build one of these statues/idols? Where is the empirical evidence that this 'idol' actually belongs to anyone?How do we know it is not just made up like the Welcome to Country ceremonies?Why is this not racism?Why can we not accept that this image is a homage as suggested by the gallery owner?

I know why, because she is white, a Croatian (as if this is a crime) and this politically correct anti-white society - her existence appears to be anoffence. Grow up people and get over yourselves.

James :05 Jul 2010 7:21:59pmI'm waiting for the punchline... where's the gag becuase you people couldn't possibly be serious? Scratch a 'progressive' & you'll find a fascist.

Let's be clear. No 'culture' or race has a monopoly on expression or art. The rancid & racist remarks listed here by the self appointed culturepolice is beyond contempt. Hypocrites

Jenny H. :06 Jul 2010 5:53:45pmRe:"Let's be clear. No 'culture' or race has a monopoly on expression or art."

Because white men say so James? What you are putting forward as 'fact' is simply a 'rule' made up by people who invade others cultures, stealtheir ceremonial objects and symbols and then tell the victim of the greed that THEY are the ones with a problem.

How about we all come round to your house, take whatever we want that is yours, we'll start with all of the precious things related to your familyand then we'll create an image of you,use it for what ever we want in what ever way we reckon and if you complain, we'll make sure to tell youyou are being unreasonable.

Sounds like a fair idea based on your hypothesis.

Amadeo :05 Jul 2010 9:28:16pmIn January this year I've managed to read Mrs. Tenodi's book "Dreamtime - Set in Stone". By reading your posts here, it’s (unfortunately) clearto see that very few of you have bothered with reading of this ‘notorious’ book.

Contrary to most impressions stated here, I've found the book (and DreamRaisers project) very interesting, it mainly speaks about personal-intimate confession of certain authentic-indigenous Aboriginal person. His story is too sad to be told. Most of the people after such horrifyingexperiences shuts down, collapse into shame, resignation, anger, hate …

What's interesting/new here you might ask, is the fact that this 'dude' had managed to break out from the chains of pain, and his beautiful andpowerful message has been brought/shared with the rest of us through this brave and inspiring book.It takes enormous amount of courage to make such public statement, which reflects author's internal spiritual perspective, the nobility of thesoul's intentions and the true manifestation of the Dreamtime … if you like.

I understood that DreamRaisers project invites/challenges Australian indigenous people to dare to undertake such reconciliation efforts, insteadof taking constant excuses founded upon white-man's violence that hit them in the past so hard. Aboriginals are not the only people thatexperienced Calvary – sophisticated savagery of western 'civilizations'.DreamRaisers is definitely not about moneymaking as some posts here presume; it represents noble initiative which regards Aborigines as veryprecious, very precious to the whole world.


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We can say how every true/genuine/noble idea or act that was brought into this world throughout history, was met with hostility, dispute,resistance etc by the connoisseurs, authorities and those which were supposed to welcome it and give thanks for it … why should it benowadays any different???

Jenny H. :06 Jul 2010 12:50:07pmIf you researched further you would know that the 'dude' you refer to was one of the main instigators of the protest against the mimickedWandjina on the opening day and no longer supports Vesna Tenodis work, as he has listened to the impact it has had on his community.

All facts that can be found by reading the articles across the net that have been written since the book was released. A very eurocentric bookthat I found appalling by the way.

To compare this cultural theft to 'noble ideas' that have met opposition is romanticism at its best and disrespect for what the traditional creators ofthe image have requested. I am assuming you are not an Aboriginal person based on your bias.

Amadeo :06 Jul 2010 6:42:11pmDear Jenny you guess right, I'm not Aboriginal person, and I've read articles about Mr.Goomblar related events that followed.Yes exactly 'romanticism at its best' is something what is missing in this sea of hatred. I regard Dreamtime situation nowadays as somewhatsimilar to early Christian centuries, when young church adopted philosophy and developed scholastics … Aboriginals should accept the need toarticulate/defend/manifest/communicate and spread Dreamtime message … and that’s the DreamRaisers message.

Jenny H. :07 Jul 2010 12:53:54pm"Aboriginals should accept the need to articulate /defend /manifest/ spread the Dreamtime message"...

SHOULD? Why? Because white people say they should? I spend a great deal of my time with traditional Elders and completely understand thewariness of sharing sacred knowledge and ancient Dreamtime stories to people who have ripped and torn the land, created appalling pollutionon their once pristine country and continue to steal from their culture in the way Vesna Tenodi is doing.

Like me, you are an outsider to Aboriginal customary law and culture, with no relationships or understanding of the highly complex systems thatkept all things in balance for so many years.

You would do well Amadeo to step down from your assumptions regarding what "THEY should" do and ask yourself why Aboriginal people haveresponded as they have, rather than just assume THEY need to do things differently.

Romanticism of Indigenous cultures and their profound knowledge and cosmology serves no purpose other than to maintain the ridiculous notionthat white people somehow have the god-given right to comment on who they are and what their culture means when in fact the invasion intoAboriginal culture has always been solely about greed, theft and stealing of their rights. Wandjina theft a perfect example.

Most australians have not yet had 'first contact' with Aboriginal people and it is my experience that wen they do experience a traditionalenvironment and begin to develop relationships based on mutual respect and recognition (napartji-napartji) comments like "they should" and"they need to" disappear back to the place of euro-centric arrogance from whence they came.

Anon :09 Jul 2010 1:48:16pmI know the "dude" you are speaking of & he was not aware his words would be published in a book when telling his story to Vesna.

phillip :22 Jul 2010 6:06:52pmYes I get the impression that not everyone has read the book in question.Ive read the book as well and what I remember was mostly an accountvia the interview process of one Aboriginal mans troublesome experience growing up in institutions and a brave rebirth from that experience. Hesounded intelligent and articulate and I thought his story was insprirational.I thought that Vesna Tenodi was instrumental in sharing his positivemessage and that her motives were to promote Culture.

Jenny H :23 Jul 2010 11:38:54amThe book has been rejected by the Aboriginal Community of the Blue Mountains and right across Australia Phillip and by Goomblar . Vesachose a troubled man with a troubled past to be the voice of HER beleif that Aboriginal people have lost their Dreaming. It is a huge insult tospread that view and as most my life is spent with Aboriginal people I can tell you frankly it is an utter lie and racist gereralisation based on onerelationship she fostered in order to write this book and now start to sell products on her web site.


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. The poster Debbi summed it up by saying plenty of white people have lost their way but you don't see Aborigines lines up to 'save them'.

Don't worry about what a Croation woman with no authority and who is currently under under scrutiny is telling you about the Dreamtime, go outand make new friendships and relationships with the victims of this appalling eurocentric theft of culture. Then you may really learn what theElders are saying and why they are appalled by this theft of the Wandjina...but be mindful...trusting relationships take years to build becauseAboriginal Australia is an occupied nation. This is not histrionics simply facts. It was a bloody invasion and it is early days of the recovery andrestoration of justice. Tenodi is only adding to the damage as a white woman who believes she needs to save Aboriginal people with nounderstanding of customary law or protocols.

Tell me Phillip if you had some family members living troubled lives for whatever reason would you want it to be told to the world that ALL whitepeople have lost their way? Of course not! Why should Aboriginal people be burdened with such a racist stereotype as 'lost' and 'disconnected'.Not the ones I know!

Imelda Almqvist :08 Jul 2010 11:18:52pmI am a painter and shamanic practitioner based in London, UK.

Friends have brought Vesna's project to my attention and made me aware of the debate raging around it in Australia.

I would like to give my personal perspective here as a painter and urban shaman.

My observation is that all over the world indigenous leaders and shamans are starting to share sacred information that used to be secret. This isall part of our world entering a new era of greater spiritual awareness.

My feeling was is that the Wandjina controversy is part of a greater process of spirit beings being brought to a wider audience, inviting morepeople to connect with sacred ancient teachings of the Dreamtime and the Spirit World.

My intensive shamanic training teaches me that knowledge or indeed inspiration isn't a "static dead thing": it is living breathing evolving energy.People engaging with ancient sacred concepts breathes life into those concepts and sends them out in the world reborn... It is a very greathonour really.

It is my hope that the Indigenous Peoples of Australia will see that the time has come for the rest of the world to become receptive to the wisdomand teachings of the Dreamtime. Let's face it: the mindset of industrial Western society has brought our planet to her knees. Our world is inurgent need of spiritual perspectives that have stood the test of time.

Imelda Almqvist

(Shamanic painter and shamanic practitioner)

Mick Hedges :13 Jul 2010 11:57:58amI have had a look at your web page Imelda and am wondering if you have heard anything that the Wandjina custodians are saying?

You have a painting of a so-called Wandjina with a mouth on it on your page. Wrong!

How can you expect Aboriginal people to share their knowledge when they are not listened to regarding their sacred imagery. Imagery that wasnot tainted, graffitied or stolen for thousands of years until Europeans came along with the belief that "I am entitled to create that too in whateverway I think is okay"?

I suggest you remove those paintings from your site if you are serious about respecting Aboriginal people and what they are saying.

Jenny H :14 Jul 2010 12:49:22pmI had a look too Mick and I agree that this is another example of how even the best intended westerners who acknowledge that Aboriginal peopleare the ones with the ansers this sorry world need, are still not hearing what is being said.

No replicating Wandjinas. No mouths on the Wandjinas. No removing them from their country.

When people are interpreting the refusal to 'share' specific cultural knowledge and its practices or not accepting that art and cultural imagery isopen slather for anyone and everyone as a flaw in Aboriginal people and non-compliance with the western mind set, they miss the very point


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that it was precisely because of these carefully balanced rites, images, ceremonial practices etc that kept things so well and in balance forthousands of years.

Imeldas words and her copying the images is a perfect example of 'we know you Aborigines have great knowledge and things we need but youare going to have to do it our way and by our rules if you share things with us becuase I have the right to copy your sacred being! And one ofour rules is 'just because you created it and sang it in to existence doesn't mean you own it or that it belongs in a specific area for a specificreason.'

To quote Mick Hedges WRONG!

If you want to demonstrate your advanced insight as an urban shaman Imelda you would be wise to remove those images from your page andseek to establish a relationship with the people of the Kimberly Region as a starting point for your quest for the lawmen and women to sharetheir highly sacred knowledge as to WHY the Wandjina must remain where it has been for thousands of years and ignore the postulations of aCroatian-Australian woman who had offended the very people she alleges she is hear to speak for.

This is the next round of invasion into Aboriginal Australia and the elders see it exactly as that. Make no mistake about that one!

Imelda Almqvist :08 Jul 2010 11:33:51pmI am a painter and shamanic practitioner based in London, UK.

Friends have brought Vesna’s project to my attention and made me aware of the debate raging in Australia.

I would like to post my personal perspective here:

My observation as an artist and shamanic practitioner is that all over the world indigenous leaders and shamans are starting to share sacredinformation that used to be secret. This is all part of our world entering a new era of greater spiritual awareness.My feeling is that the Wandjina controversy is part of a greater process of The Dreamtime being brought to a wider audience, inviting morepeople to connect with sacred ancient teachings and the world of spirit. Knowledge and inspiration isn’t a static dead thing: it is living breathingevolving energy. People engaging with ancient sacred concepts breathes life into those concepts and sends them out in the world reborn... It isa very great honour.

I hope that the indigenous peoples of Australia will see that maybe the time has come to share the ancient teachings and wisdom of theDreamtime. After all: the teachings and knowledge of industrialised Western society have brought our beautiful planet to her knees. Westernpeople live in a culture that has lost its soul and its spiritual underpinnings. Maybe it is time to embrace the ancient sacred teachings of theDreamtime, the Wanjinas and other Spirit Beings. This may just save our planet from self-destruction.

Imelda Almqvist

Mick Hedges :13 Jul 2010 10:23:53amWhilst you might be hoping that the Indigenous people will step in and clean up this mess Imelda I can tell you that it is not going to happenwhen there are people like Vesna Tenodi stealing Aboriginal imagery, taking it from the part of the country where it ceremonially belongs,ignoring the requests of the elders and adding fuel to the fire she has started by making up a Wandjina competition, a song and promisingproducts are on the way.

You have to spend time with the traditional mob to understand why they do not want their culture exploited in the way that this european womanis doing so there is buckleys chance of it being shared wider because people like her have done too much damage already.

You might have observed that all over the world indigenous people are sharing their knowledge Imelda but to assume that they SHOULD when inthis country the shameful treatment of elders continues with things like the N.T Intervention is just idealism.

There are still issues of stolen wages,stolen bones of the ancestors sitting in museums across this country, stolen land being raped and pillagedand now some goose with a delusion she has been chosen by the spirits to steal the Wandjina from the Kimberly region to be resolved beforethe elders SHOULD do anything even remotely connected to sharing their ancient, sacred wisdom of this used and abused country.

And that other bloke on the page who said the 'dudedid not know Vesna would be exploiting him like she has is spot on thats why he was one of the most vocal of the protestors at the launch of herfake Wandjina opening. Don't worry about the invisible "Those Who know " mob. There are enough of us you can see and hear who REALLYknow what is going on with Vesnas plans to sell products from her store, like she has stated on her webpage and thus make money from hercultural theft.


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Amadeo :16 Jul 2010 12:58:20amI understood that no one is expecting from indigenous people to ‘clean up this mess’, but more likely to show the way, to set directives andreevaluate true priorities and goals. I regard this as a truly great honor and act of trust that was appointed to Aboriginals by Those-Who-Know…As Ms. Imelda put it, throughout last century many existing cultural traditions had opened their sacred gates of mystery teachings, obviouslyrecognizing the significance of the present momentum in world history. Many of them suffered great torments and catastrophes which spannedsometimes over entire nations. But their doom and unfortunate circumstances didn’t get in the way of ‘their Dreamtime perspective’.Those-Who-Know had announced core arguments why DreamRaisers is formulated and manifested by Ms. Tenodi in such shocking and verydisturbing way. There’s not much time left for ‘the elders … to do anything even remotely connected to sharing …’The vulgar insults and constant repetition of ‘stealing/theft’ formulas, from one post to another, keep reaffirming what Those-Who-Knowobserved: these people have lost link to their Dreamtime.I see huge amount of hatred and resentment accumulated within these posts, which are major head blocker to reconciliation, opening andreconnecting to the Dreamtime once again. In addition spiritual: hypocrisy and vanity and pride and arrogance are more than obvious.Few days ago I’ve put some simple melody to Ms. Tenodi’s song “Wandjina’s Call” and we’ve published it for the NAIDOC week purposes.There’s no profit making marketing there at all, it is simple-sincere reconciliation call to Aboriginal people.I know Vesna & Damir Tenodi for more than 10 years now, and I’m well acquainted with their motives, actions and in particular with literary andpublishing endeavors (more than 10 titles). In 1990 they’ve published brochure with seven essays, with one entitled “The Sun Eclipsed” whichsaluted/glorified the importance of one particular tradition which still deserved to be called Culture - the Dreamtime (the only existing true Cultureof Australia). But back then the only reaction was attack and mocking, mainly coming from ‘white-people’... which nowadays after twenty yearsmatured a bit and started to be caring & loving neighbors?Mr. Mick I’d suggest that you hold your manners or I’ll be forced to alert moderator of LawReport to expel your poison from this page …Regards

Mick Hedges :16 Jul 2010 1:37:07pmAmadeo if you are feeling a bit miffed because I challenge a woman who says she is communicating with invisible entities who are telling her tosteal images from the custodians of this country, when they have said DON"T!...a woman who is ignoring what the Elders are saying, who iswanting to make money by selling products from her webpage and who has further added to the insult of the traditional owners by creating acompetition of these stolen images, I think you might have your priorities wrong mate!

Not only has Aboriginal Australia had their land, language, children, human rights and culture stolen from them as mentioned in other posts onthis page, now you are insisting that some invisible mob called those who know are running the show for the changes needed.

This is, as we say in my part of the word...a load of crock!

I am embarrassed that people like you and Vesna Tenodi think it is okay to ignore the living breathing custodians, the Elders and descendants ofthe and their knowledge and authority and listen to the psychobabble of a woman who is being told very clearly STOP.

As for the caring and loving neighbours and how enlightened we are twenty years down the track, you would do well to educate yourself aboutthe fabrications that were made in these times were are in now in order to take the military into remote communities and enforce the Interventionand how many respected law men and women, elders and highly regarded people, are now back living on income control and vouchers for theirtucker like they were in the 1930's.

And lastly let me tell you, because it is obvious you are not in relationship with Aboriginal people in any way shape or form and have not had theprivilege of sitting in the ceremonial or traditional cultural space -people have NOT lost their connection to the Dreamtime, the knowledge iscarefully guarded because of the very kind of theft of imagery and disregarded for the Elders that this debacle has revealed.Since the invasionof 1788 and the shocking impact on Aboriginal people much of the healing and recovery goes on beyond what non-Aboriginal people will eversee or the media would even have a clue about.

If Vesna and her husband are so highly regarded, where are the hundreds of Aboriginal people from across Australia who support them - whata goose of an illusion people are under when they try to justify this cultural theft and invasion into sacred Wandjina territory as directives fromghosts by a woman who has no ancestral relationship to the very image she has stolen and continues to flaunt.

I am thinking of reporting you to the moderators too Amadeo for trying to pass on hallucinations and grandiose illusions that a non-Aboriginalperson is authorised to tell the Aboriginal Elders what they MUST do with THEIR Wandjina.! Appalling behaviour!

From One Who Knows I'd like to suggest that rather than add a melody t

Jenny H :16 Jul 2010 2:32:14pm"I understood that no one is expecting from indigenous people to "clean up this mess", but more likely to show the way, to set directives and


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reevaluate true priorities and goals."

The directive has been set Amadeo -remove the false Wandjina image from Katoomba.

It is very simple.

Unfortunately because the woman involved did not like the directive and people like you who support her, the directive you speak of has beenignored.

Same old story when it comes to Aboriginal people being heard and acknowledgesd as an authority.

I think what you meant to say Amadeo is something like "I understood that no one is expecting from indigenous people to "clean up this mess",but more likely to show the way, to set directives and reevaluate true priorities and goals and so long as we agree with what they are saying andexercise our entitlement to dominate their view, we might listen".

Jeremy :17 Jul 2010 1:47:34pm"Appointed to Aboriginals" Amadeo? By "Those Who Know"? Rubbish! What a waffly load of new age bunkum that one is!

I am beginning to wonder if the Tenodis and the people are following them are not all some part of new age cult that has given itself the delusionthat invisible spirits are authorising them to steal from the custodians of the Wandjina in some kind of twisted plot that leaves the Da Vinci Codelooking like an Enid Blyton book.

Let me guess the title of your song Amadeo:

"We'll steal your art work and then sing you a song about how much we care for you & admired you all along " The chorus goes:

"But don't you try try try to tell us we are wrong because we will steal your Wandjina and then sing you this little song"

lachlanr :16 Jul 2010 12:04:24pmFYI, Marky Mark is Mark Wahlberg's rapper name from his time with Marky Mark & the Funky Bunch; he is not in the Beastie Boys.

I thought it important to correct that misconception.

Amadeo :19 Jul 2010 5:25:04pmIt seems that Goomblar is the only genuine Aborigine in all this drama. I believe he is (or was) a proud man with great courage, who wanted tohelp his people rise from their misery, a true rolemodel, exactly as Vesna described him in the book. That's why the Those-Who-Know chosehim, as Vesna said, for his pure heart, so I'd rather read his words again than all the hateful comments by irrational people who cannot see that,throughout history, there is always an outsider sent to set things right. At first, I thought some people are just angry, and they can be reasonedwith, but I was obviously wrong. Their vision is so obscured by anger and hate, that they are trying to envelop everyone in their own negativeenergy. I think I'll sign off now and go back to listening to that audio and Damien Carrick again, he sounds like a great voice of reason.

Mick Hedges :21 Jul 2010 1:17:23pmGoomblar is a victim of the terrible events that began in 1788. He is not a voice for the traditional men and woman who represent hundreds ofdifferent Aboriginal nations in this country each with their own unique ceremonial practices, song lines and interconnected processes thatexisted long before the Tenodis stole one of the significant Spirit beings of the Kimberly region.

He has let the public know how he feels about Vesna exploiting his trust by writing that sham Dreamtime book.That is why he lead the protest that day and has disowned her completely.

Simple facts and if you look past your loyalty to a cultural vandal, a woman who is being directed by the ghosts no one can see, says they areThose Who Know and is ignoring the audible voice of those who DO know, you might start to HEAR what the OWNERS of the Wandjina aresaying.

But I doubt it. You have an agenda to exploit the Wandjina, sell it to people overseas in song and with ridiculous, offensive Wanjina artcompetitions and then write ridiculous songs about how much you love Aboriginal people.

Jokers like you make me laugh Amadeo. You take part in yet another theft of some thing highly sacred that doesn't belong to to you, you talk


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about ridiculous romantic notions of Aboriginal people that further diminishes the credibility of the law men and women then you sit on your highhorse telling people off for being angry about this theft and violation of Aboriginal law. Drongo! I think you and Yellena need to be taken out bushwith the Lawmen and taught what Respect is really all about!

Jelena :20 Jul 2010 11:53:31pmIt is quite remarkable that people whose entire tradition is based on spirits and Dreamtime entities should show so little faith in the power ofWanjinas and declare Vesna nuts for answering Wanjinas' call. That's just another proof they are indeed completely disconnected from theirtradition, just as Goomblar Wylo confirmed. I'd rather listen to the gentle philosophy of the Those-Who-Know than to ranting of some angry mob.Besides, I don't think anything anyone might say can change the mind of those who are so steeped in anger and hate. Once you clense yourheart, perhaps there will be room for a constructive dialogue and genuine reconciliation. Until then, keep up your hollow ceremonies, and keeptrying to explain their meaning which you can no longer remember. Or, alternatively, each one of you who wish to do some good in the world,can join us and become a DreamRaiser.

Mick Hedges :21 Jul 2010 1:05:40pmJust wondering where you get your self appointed authority to comment on the Dreamtime when you have no kinships or relationship to thehighly regarded Law men and women Yellena. I have taken your name and changed it to how I would like to represent it and I know you will beokay with this because you support taking the Wandjina and changing it. Make sense? No?

Don't worry about standing on your pulpit telling others to cleanse their heart, spend the time developing some humility and respect for the menand women who kept this country strong and in balance for thousands of years and were given the Wandjina for THAT part of the country as apart of that custodianship. Who are still here regardless of your belief otherwise.

Your ignorance is appalling Yellena. Hollow ceremonies? When was the last time you went to Inma or were involved with the Tjilpis? Do you evenknow what the words mean? No of course you don't because you have NO relationship...which has lead you to believe the ceremonies areempty. Very foolish of you!

You have no idea about customary law and ceremonial business that is going on as we speak. Shame on you Yellena for being so disrespectfulto the ceremonial men and women!

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WADING INTO THE WANDJINA CONTROVERSY - ANU College of … · 2012. 11. 4. · I asked Vesna Tenodi...

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Transcript of WADING INTO THE WANDJINA CONTROVERSY - ANU College of … · 2012. 11. 4. · I asked Vesna Tenodi...