Transcript of “300 with Barry Sears” · PDF filefor a face-to-face consultation...

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Transcript of “300 with Barry Sears”

Bulletproof Radio podcast #300

Bulletproof Radio Podcast #300, Barry Sears

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Announcer: BulletproofRadio,astateofhighperformance.

Dave: Hey,it’sDaveAspreywithBulletproofRadio.Today’scoolfactofthe

dayisthatwell,youdon’teatyourlipstick,atleastIhopeyoudon’t,butthere’sagoodchancethatsomeofitgetsinyourmouthwhenyoueatorlickyourlips,atleastifyouwearlipstick,whichisatleasthalfofthepeoplelisteningintoday.Manybeautyproductscontainglutenforawholebunchofdifferentreasons,andsometimesinjusttraceamounts,soifyou'rereallysensitivetogluten,eventheamountofgluteninyourlipstickmightgiveyousymptoms,althoughit’snotthatlikely,butstillit’skindofinterestingthattheysomehowfindawaytogetgluteninyourlipstick.

Today’sguestjustaboutneedsnointroduction.Heisaveryfamousguy,aguywho’sworkhadabigimpactonmylifewhenIwasworkingtolose100poundsandlearnhowtokeepitoff.Goingbackevenintothemid-90s.He’sbeenapersistentvoice,oneoftheveryearlyvoices,talkingaboutwhathormonaleffectsoffoodsareinthebody.Todayhe’saleadingauthorityontheimpactofdietongeneticexpressionandoninflammation.He’spublished40scientificarticles,has14USpatentsinIVdrugdeliverysystemsforcancerandhormonalregulationandcardiovasculardiseases.He’swritten13books,includinganumber1NewYorkTimesbestsellercalled“TheZone”thatsold6millioncopies.I’mtalkingaboutnoneotherthanDr.BarrySears.

Dr.SearsorBarryasI’mgoingtocallyouintheinterview,it’sanhonortohaveyouontheshow.Ican’tbelieveI’mtalkingtoyouinperson.It’ssocool.

Barry: Well,Dave,thankyouverymuch.I’mvery,veryhonoredtobeonyourshow.

Dave: Inordertoprepareforthis,IactuallyaskedabunchoffansonFacebooklikeifyoucouldaskBarrySearsanyquestiononearthwhatwouldyouwantittobe.Sowesortofcompiledthis.UsuallyIdon’t


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havepre-preparedquestions.IjusthavesomeideasaboutwhatIwanttotalkabout,andIhavemyownsetofthingsIwanttoaskyou.Buttodaywe’regoingtomakesurethatpeoplewhotookthetimetowriteinwithaquestion,thatwegetatleastsomeofthemostpopularquestionsoutthere.

Number1,yousaidthatthemostimportantnewdiscoveryyouhaveisflavonoids,whichisdifferentthanthesortofthingsyouwroteaboutwitheicosanoidsandsomeoftheseotherthingsinyouroriginalworkwithTheZonedietandalloftheworkyou’vedonesincethen.Whydoyouputflavonoidssohighonyourlist?

Barry: Well,Iagain,whenIwrotethebook,“TheZone”backin1995weknewnothingaboutpolyphenolsofwhichflavonoidsisasubgroupof.That’swhyitwasn’tinthefirstbook.Wenowknowthatthesepolyphenolsareincrediblyimportantagentsbecausetheyaregeneactivators.Drugscan’tdothis,butthesepolyphenols,ifthey’retakenintherapeuticlevels,canactivateourgenes.Particularlythereare3differenttypesofgeneclassestheyactivate.Atlowerlevelstheyactivateanti-oxidativegenes.Thesearethegenesthatcauseatranscriptionofenzymes,antioxidantenzymeslikesuperoxidedismutaseandglutathioneperoxidase.

Whyisthisimportant?Mostantioxidantsarereallyoneanddone.Theycanknockoutonefreeradicalandthey’redonefortheday.Buttheseantioxidantenzymescanbasicallydestroy10softhousandsoffreeradicalsoverandoveragain.They’refreeradicaleatingmachines.Atstillhigherlevelsthesepolyphenolsnowactivateanti-inflammatorygenes,especiallywiththosethatbasicallyinhibittheactivationofnuclearfactorkappaB,themastergenethatturnsoninflammation.Atstillhigherlevelstheyactivatetheanti-aginggeneSIRT1thatmakestheenzymeAMPKinasethusakeytocontrollingourmetabolism.Weunderstandnowthepowerofthesepolyphenols,butagain,likeadrug,they’reonlyusefulifgiveninatherapeuticlevels.

Dave: Canyougettherapeuticlevelsbyeatingyourleafygreensandyourbellpeppersandthingslikethat?


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Barry: Youcertainlycan,ifyou'rewillingtoeatabout2poundsperday.Your

laughindicatesmostpeoplesay,“Noway,noway.”That’stheproblem.Thelevelsofpolyphenolsinleafygreenvegetablesandnon-starchyvegetablesisactuallyonlyabout1/10thor1%oftheirweight.SoIhavetoeatalottogetjustenough.

Dave: WhataboutAmerica’sfavoritebeverage,coffee?

Barry: That’sAmerica’sprimarysourceofpolyphenols.Notthebest,butitistheprimarysourceforAmericans.Now,areAmerican’sthehealthiestpeopleonthefaceoftheearth?Probablynot.ButtheonegroupofpeoplewhoeatlargeamountsofpolyphenolsarethosewhobasicallyliveintheMediterraneanregion.That’sthesecretoftheMediterraneandiet.Notthepasta.Notthewine.Thewinedoescontainpolyphenols,butlet’sgoback…

Exactly,let’sgobacktothatsame.Ineedabout1gramperdayofpolyphenolstoturnonanti-inflammatorygenes.HowmanyglassesofredwinedoIhavetodrinkperday?Theanswerisabout11.Idon’tliketheredwine.It’stoobitter.Ilikewhitewine.Fine,you'regoingtoeat110glassesadaytogetenoughpolyphenols.Yousee,gettingpolyphenolsisadifficultprocess,yetiskeybecausetheyarethecontrollersofnotonlythegenesthatbasicallycontrolmuchofourmetabolism,buttheyarethemastersculptorsofthegut.

Dave: Isthereanyreasonnottojusttaketheseasvegetableconcentrates?Itakegrapeskinpolyphenols,grapeseedextract,Itakeresveratrol,transresveratrol,pterolstilbene,andahandfulofotherpolyphenolsubstancesinmynormaldailystackofthings.InyourexperienceifIeatthosewithameal,especiallyafatcontainingmeal,isthereanydifferencetomybodybetweenthoseandeatingapoundor2poundsofvegetablesaday?

Barry: Probablynot.

Dave: I’mhappyyousaidthatthough.


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Barry: Butthereisadifferenceinbioavailability,evenhavingthefat,allthe

polyphenolsyoumentionedareincrediblywaterinsoluble.Ifthey’rewaterinsoluble,theycan’tgetintoyourblood.Iftheycan’tgetinyourblood,theydon’tdoyouawholelotofgood.Nowtherearecertainpolyphenolswhicharemorewatersoluble.Thesearetheonesyoufindprimarilyinberries.Butthenyouhaveaproblem.Berriesarealsorichinsugars.Soyouhavebetweenarockandahardplace.That’swhyconcentrates,concentratesofpolyphenolsources,whichhavebeennowstrippedoutofnon-biologicallyactivematerialsandstrippedoutofcarbohydrates,becomeavery,veryexcellentsourcetomaintainthelevelsofthesekeyingredientswehavetohaveonreallyadailybasis.

Dave: OneoftheotherguestsontheshowAlbertoVilloldo,who’saculturalanthropologist,whogotastartfindingdrugsontheAmazon25yearsagoandveryunusualshaman,becausewe’retalkingaboutmitochondriaallthetime,butherecommendsdoingthingswithhighamountsofpolyphenolsonlyfor3,4daysaweek,takingacoupleofdaysofftobasicallykeepyourbodyfromgettingattenuatedtohavingthesesubstancessayyourantioxidantenzymesystemsgetstressednaturally.Areyouafanofcyclingyourpolyphenolsordoyoutakepolyphenolseveryday?

Barry: Everyday.Thereasonwhybecausethehalf-lifeofpolyphenols,1,they’renotverywellabsorbed.Youhavetotakealotjusttotrytogetintheblood.Iftheygetinthebloodtheirhalf-lifeisincrediblyshort,measuredinhours.Theyhaveonlyaverylimitedabilitytobasicallydotheiractivationofthegenesandthenthey’regone.Thegenesthey’reactivatingarethe121turnedonallthetime.

Dave: Arecoffeepolyphenolswatersoluble?

Barry: No.They’resomewhatwatersoluble,butbythetimeyougetcoffee…Thegreencoffeebeanisveryrichinpolyphenols.It’sincrediblybitter.That’swhyit’srichinpolyphenols.Whenyouroastthecoffeeyoureleasetheflavorbutyoudestroyalotofthepolyphenols.Thesameis


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trueofchocolate.Thecocoabeanitselfisveryrichinpolyphenols,butonceyoustarttofermentitandroastittoreleasetheflavorsyoubegintodestroymanyofthepolyphenols.

Dave: WithBulletproofcoffeebeanswedoamediumroasttohelppreservetheintegrityofthoseofthose.There’sanargumentforadarkerroastaswellbecauseyouhavemorechlorogenicacidwhichhasotherhealtheffectsthataren’taspolyphenoldriven.It’soneofthose,youwantboth,butmanhowdoyougetbothin1cupofcoffee.It’sprobably2differentones.

Barry: You'retryingtomaintainazone,aren’tyou?

Dave: Wellsaid.

Barry: That’sthesecret.Innutritionnobodyiswrongbutthey’reoftennotcompletelyright.Everybodyislike12blindmentryingtodescribeanelephant.They’reallpartiallyright.Nutritionisincrediblycomplex.Istandbackafterspending40yearsinthisarea,say,justinaweofhowcomplexitisandreallyhowlittleknowledgewehave.Youhavecertainprimarythingsthatyouhavetofollowthrough.Youneedadequateproteinonadailybasis.Youneedadequateessentialfats.Withoutthemyoucan’tlive.Youneedadequatelevelsofpolyphenols.

Iconsiderpolyphenolswithin10or15yearswillbeconsideredessentialnutrients,essentialforhumanhealth.Nowyoutrytogetthemalltogetherwiththeleastamountofcaloriesandthebesthormonalresponse,andsay,“Ohmygod.Thisissohard.It’stakingallthefunoutoffood.”Exceptfoodisfarmorepowerfulasadrugthanyou’lleverachieve,becausefoodcanaffecthormones,foodcanaffecttheexpressionofourgenes.It’sreallygenetherapyinthekitchen.

Dave: There’ssomethingveryinterestinghappeninginthefoodindustry.Imakecoffeeandnutritionaloilsandproteinpowdersandthingslikethat.I’mawareofsomeoftheeffectsthattheyhave,evenwhenIhavestudiesusingmystuffI’mnotallowedtotalkaboutthestudiesbecauseImanufacturethem,becauseI’mnotadrugcompany,I’ma


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foodcompany.

I’mseeinghugenumbersofstartupsandfoodcompaniesmakingtheso-calledfunctionalfoodsthathavegeneticbenefits,thatchangeyourgutbiome,thatdoallthesethings.Assoonasthecreatorsofthosefoods,whocareenoughabouttheproblemthey’retryingtosolvetoactuallyputtheirlife’stimeandmoneyatriskinordertomakeacompany,theybasicallystandupandsay,“Ittastesgood.”Becauseifyousayanythingelseyou'reprobablysellingdrugs.Doyouseethatchanging?

Barry: NoIdon’t.Wehave2verypowerfulindustriesinAmerica,thefinancialindustryandthepharmaceuticalindustry,andneitheronelikescompetition.Ithinkyou’llnotseethatchange.Whatdoesrequiretheproblemisyouhavetodomoreclinicalresearch.Clinicalresearchinhumansisverytedious,veryexpensive.Yet,ifyoudoit,theFDArulesareclear.Youcan’tmakedruglikeclaimsifthey’resupportedbygoodclinicalresearch.“Well,thatmeansIcandoacoupleofratstudiesfromChina.”No.You’vegottousehumansandthat’soneoftheproblems.

Theseeffectsofthese,ofnutritionoranyingredientisveryhardoftentoseeintheabsenceofhavingatotaloverallformat.BylookingatingredientX,let’ssayI’lluseapolyphenol,ifIhavesomepeopleeatingcheeseburgersandotherseatingbasicallypasta,Iwanttohavedifferenteffects.Allthisnoise,thisbackgroundnoiseyougetfromtheotherhormonaleffectsofthefoodwipeoutthesubtleeffectsoftheingredientyou'relookingat.

Dave: Oneofmyfavoritewordsiscalledtheexposome.Wehavetheepigenomeandwehaveourhumangenome,butexposomeisthesetofallenvironmentalvariableswe’reexposedtooverthecourseofourlife.Theamountofdatainthatissobigthatitmakesthehumangenomelookcompletelytrivial.Becauseit’sallthethingsthatnoonethoughtabout,likethecombinationofthisfoodandthatfood,andwhatwastheatmosphericpressure.Ihavenoideaifthepositionofthestarsactuallymattersorifsolarflaresmatter,butthey’reinmy


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exposome,sowecandoadatacorrelation.There’snoendtotheamountofdatathatwesortofthinkwe’redoingadoubleblindstudy.Butallthesevariablesarehappeningatthesametime.ThisisoneofthethingsthatIthinkgoesagainstnutritionalresearchinhumans,isthatunlessthey’reinprisonandyoucontroleverythingthattheyhaveaccesstoyoureallydon’tgetverygooddatabecauseofallthoserandomstuffthathappen.

Barry: That’stheproblem,youhavetotreathumanbeingslikelabrats.Youcan’tletthemthink,youmustprovidethemallthefood,andtrytocontroltheconditionsasbestaspossible.Thenpeoplestartwhining,“Istoohard.”“Hey,growup.Ifyouwanttoplaywiththebigboys,actlikeabigboy.”

Nowthereasonwhydrugcompaniescangetawayfromthisbecausedrugsaremoreconcentratedandhavemorepower,butitalsomeanstheyhavemoresideeffects.That’swhyinthedrugworldwetalkaboutatherapeuticindexofadrug.Thatisthereisarange,azone,atherapeuticzoneofwhichbelowwhichthedrugwon’twork,abovewhichthedrugistoxic.Nowforcancerdrugsthattherapeuticzoneisabout1.Cancerdrugsareaboutastoxicastheyarebasicallyuseful.That’swhyourwaroncancerhasfailedforthelast45years.Butagain,undertherightcircumstances,andI’vepublishedstudies,I’vedonethistypeoftreatinghumanslikelabrats,youcangetveryconsistentresults.

Oneofthebestwaysofdoingthisaredoingcrossoverstudieswhereyou'renowtakingintoaccountthelackofgeneticvariationusingeachindividualandbasicallyoverandoveragain.Therearemorecomplexstudiesindoubleblindplacebo,buthere’syourtypicalnutritionalstudycomingoutofHarvardMedicalSchool.

Yougetalotoffatpeopletogether.Yousplitthemin2groups.Onegroupyougivethemhere’sadietbookofX,here’sadietbookofY,readthebooksandcomeback2yearslater.Yousay,“You’vegottobekidding.You’vegottobekidding.”Thentheysaydietsdon’twork.Ofcoursetheywork,buttheyonlyworkifyoutakethemattherightdose


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attherighttime.

Dave: Thatmakesalotofsense.WhataboutlikeforinstanceonTheZonedietyouhavespecificpercentagesofmacronutrientsforameal.I’mwondering.I’mfindingmenandwomenseemtohavedifferentrequirementsforcarbohydrate.Onaverage,notalways,somepeople.Haveyounoticedsomethinglikethatorisitprettymuchlikethestandardmacronutrientratiosareprettymuchfixed?You’veseenalotmorepeoplethatIeverhave.

Barry: No.Ithinkonpage82Isaidhere’stheaverageratio.

Dave: Oh,soitisanaverageratio.

Barry: AsyoucanseeinmyfirstbookIsaidit’sabellshapedcurvebecausewe’renotallgeneticallyidentical.Butthecurveisn’tthatwideeither.Basicallyyouhavetodosomevariationsandtakeintoaccountgeneticvariability.OneoftheproblemswithwhenIwrotethebook,“TheZone”isreallywrittenforcardiologists.Thefactthatanybodyeverreadthebookorevenboughtthebook,letalonereadit,wasalwaysamazingtomeandevenmoresotomypublisher.

Dave: That’shilarious.Ihadnoidea.

Barry: Butagainitwas,Iwenttothatdetailtoillustratetocardiologistsyouhavetotreatfoodlikeadrug,there’sarhymeorreason.IsnotbasedonIthinkandsaying,“Here’sthedataofbasicallythey’llprobablygivethebesthormoneresponses.”Nowthat’satestablehypothesis.Inallthestudieswhichhavebeenwellcontrolled,andtherearen’tthatmany,butinthosestateswhichhavebeenpublishedTheZonediethasbeenfoundtobethebestdietrelativetocontrollinghormonalresponsesintermsoflosingexcessbodyfat,intermsofbasicallyreducingthelevelsofappetite,andmoreimportantlyandthereasonwhyIdevelopedTheZonedietinreducinginflammation.OneoftheproblemsIhavetriedtofightforthelast20years,it’saweightlossprogram.Isaid,“Hasanybodyeverreadthebook?”“No.”


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Dave: It’saninflammationcontrolprogram.

Barry: Inflammation,inthezone,youneedsomebutnottoomuch.Again,ifIwasabetterwriter,maybetheywould’veunderstoodthis20yearsago.But20yearsagonooneknewanythingaboutinflammation.

Dave: Iwas20yearsagoaround280poundsatthetime.Iwas300.IwaslivinginawaterdamagedbuildingsoIhadtoxicmoldexposure,whichdirectlyturnsoninflammationthroughoutthebody.It’dbeawholebunchofdifferentcytokinepathways,whichwedidn’tunderstandbackthenanyway.Ididallsortsofdifferentdiets,buttheZoneDiethadareallyprofoundeffect.IrememberthistimeIwaseatinghandfulsofalmonds,becauseyouwerethefirstpersonI’deverseenwhowaswritingabouthowthesethingscontrolledinflammation.

Iwenttothisnutritionseminaratlunch.IworkedforabigSiliconValleycompanyrightthereonGreatAmericaParkwaywhereCiscoandallthebigcompaniesare.Theybroughtinthiskindofchubbynutritionist.Shewastellingusweoughttoeatlikenofat.I’msittingthereatlunchtimeeatingahandfulofalmondsgoing,“Ohno,I’meatingmyalmondslikethey’llprotectmyarteries.”Thisladystartedspitting.ShewassomadthatIcouldsaysomethingsooffensiveasthat.IjusteventhenInoticedadifferenceinmyinflammationwhichwasmyprimaryproblemthereandthehormonalresponsesandallrough.

Inoticedadifferencefromshiftingtosomethingthatwas,infactIhadaredZonediet,IwasaddingoliveoiltomythingsandIhaduppedmyfatalittlebitbecauseIhadbeenlowfatbeforethat.IalsotriedAtkins,Itriedallsortsofstuff,butIdidnoticeachangefromaddingthatstuff.Ichangedfromusingmyantioxidantsandthingslikethat.Thenmydoctorstellme,“Oh,you’vegottostopusingvitaminC,3gramsaday,likethatcouldkillyou,”washisdirectwords.ItwasthatmomentthatI’mlike,“Youknowwhat?Theseguys,theydon’thaveaclue.Liketheydon’tknowwhoLinusPaulingis.”Forpeoplelisteningwhodon’tknowwhoheis,that’sokay,you'renotadoctor,youshouldn’tbeexpectedtoknow.Buthewonlike2Nobelprizes,took90gramsofvitaminC,


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andisoneofthebigresearchersinthisspace.

Thatsortofthingreallyfrustratedme,butyourbookwasoneoftheguidinglightsthatledmetothinkthat,“Okay,I’vegottodosomethingdifferently.”AsIfastforward20yearsIalsojustlikeyoubelieveinflammationisattheverycoreofitandIfoundthatthere’safewthingsthatatleastformeandforalotofpeopletendtocorrelatewithinflammation.Oneofthemisexcessiveomega6slikefromsoyandcheese.

Barry: Definitely.

Dave: Whatdoyouthinkaboutliketheomega6,omega3ratioandthingslikethat?What’syourtakeonthatnowthatyou'vehad20yearstoseetheresults?

Barry: Actuallythat’swhyIgotstarted40yearsago,becauseIwaslookingat…Bothomega6andomega3fattyacidsareknownasessentialfattyacids.Whyaretheyessential?Theyarethebuildingblocksofpowerfulhormonesthatcontrolinflammation.They’recalledeicosanoids.Bigword20yearsago.Stillabigwordtoday.Butyouneedabalance.Aslongasyoumaintainabalance,youhavebasicallyanicehomeostasis.

Butwhat’shappenedinAmericaisthatourabilitytomakeomega6fattyacidshasbecomemonumentalintermsofourabilityandloweringtheprice.Asaconsequence,nowomega6fattyacids,vegetableoils,richinthem,arenowthecheapestsourceofcaloriesintheworldtoday.Asaconsequence,theratioofomega6toomega3hasdramaticallyincreased.Sincetheomega6fattyacidsarethebuildingblocksofproinflammatoryhormones,ourlevelsofinflammationhavealsoincreaseddramatically.

Asaconsequence,almostvirtuallyeverydiseasestatewe’rerailingagainst,obesity,diabetes,heartdisease,cancer,Alzheimer’s,theseareallknowntobeinflammatorydiseases,andyetwearefuelingthatfirebyincorporatingmoreandmoreomega6fattyacidsinourdiets.Toaddinsulttoinjurywhenwebasicallystartincreasingthelevelsof


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insulin,that’slikeaddingamatchtoavatofgasoline,alightedmatch,yougetanexplosionofinflammation.

That’swhathappened,basicallyhappenedfirstinAmericabecausewearegroundzeroinomega6fattyacids.Oncewesaturateoursocietywelookforexportmarkets.Wefoundthemthroughouttheworld.WhenIfirstwenttoItalyabout20yearsagothefirstquestionIwasasked…Actuallywasn’taquestion,it’sastatement.“Howdareyou.HowdareyouasAmericantelluswhattoeat.Americansarefatbecausetheyarestupid,theyarelazyandtheycan’tcook.”Isaid,“Allthosethingsareprobablytrue,excepteverythingyouseeintheshoresofAmericawillbeonyourshoresin10to15years.”TodayinItalyItalianchildrenarenowthefattestinEurope.Onegenerationagothey’retheleanest.

Dave: That’sbecausethey’relazy,right?

Barry: They’relazyandthey’restupid.

Dave: JustlikeIwaswhenIweighed300pounds,yeah.

Barry: Thereasonwhyyougainedthe300poundsinthefirstplacebecauseyouhaddevelopedafattrap,thecalorieswerecomingintothemouthandbeingtrappedinyourfatcellsandnotbeingreleasedtomakeenergysojustATP.Literallyyouarebasicallygainingweightbutyouarestarvingatthesametime.

Dave: Iwastiredashellatthetime.Iwasjustexhaustedallthetime.Whenyou'refat,whenyou'reexhausted,youhavenoemotionalregulationbecauseyoudon’thaveenoughenergy.

Barry: That’sbasicallywhat…It’snotbecausepeopleareweak-willed.They’vecausedasignificantchangeintheirmetabolismthattheyareconstantlystarvingofenergy.Withouttheadequatelevelsofenergybeingreleasedfromthefatcells,whichisourSwissbankaccount,wecannotmakeenoughATP.Whenyoucan’tmakeenoughATP,2things,youeitherslowdownoreatmorecalories.Thosearenotthecauseof


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obesity.Theyaretheconsequenceofbasicallydevelopingafattrapcausedbyincreasedinflammation.

Dave: Nowtherearehundredsofthousandsofpeoplelisteningtotheshowrightnow.Probably…Well,iftheywerelisteningforawhile,let’ssayonly40%ofthemareobeseinsteadof50%.Whatwouldyousaytosomeonethatwas,“Allright,IacknowledgethatIhaveaninflammationproblemandIacknowledgethatit’snotthatI’mweak-willed,it’sthatlikethere’ssomethingwrongmetabolically.”Whatstep1,whatstep2,whatstep3thatyourecommendforpeoplewhoaretrappedwiththesefattraps,withtheseinflammation-

Barry: Step1issayingisnotyourfault.Nowyourelievetheguilt.It’slikesaying,“Oh,thispersonhasbreastcancer.They’reaweak-willedperson.”Say,“It’snottheirfault.”Let’sgetovertheguiltaspect.“Okay,it’snotmyfault.What’scausingtheproblem?”Say,“Yourmetabolismisoutofwhack.”Ourgoal…What’smetabolism?It’sanicebigwordthatsaysconvertingdietarycaloriesintoenergy,thisblackboxcalledthemetabolism.Wehavetodoabetterjobofdoingthis.

Indoingso,howdoyouknowit’sgoingtowork?You'renothungryfornext5hoursafterameal.That’syoursignfromGodyouhaverectifiedyourmetabolism.Theysay,“Imean,Godwillspeaktome?”“Yes,ifyoujusteattherightthing.”Howdoyouknow?Lookatyourwatch.5hoursafteryourlastmealifyou'renothungry,yourlastmealwashormonallycorrectforyourbiochemistryandyourgenetics.

Peopledon’teatthatmanythings.Theyeatmaybe10differentmealstheirentirelife,2differentbreakfasts,3differentlunches,and5differentdinners.Astheygoattherestaurantstheygotothesamerestaurantoverandoveragain,maybe5restaurants.Themenusareverylarge.Theyeatthesamethingoverandoveragain.We’recreaturesofhabit.YoukeepadjustingthethingsyoueatathomeandthethingsyoueatoutuntilthewatchsaysI’mnothungry.NowIfoundtherightmechanismformyself.

Dave: 5hours.


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Barry: That’sthesecret.

Dave: NowsomethingthatblewmymindwhenIwasdevelopingBulletproof

Coffee,andBulletproofCoffeeisgrass-fedbutter,specialcoffeethatdoesn’thavesometoxinsthataffectmitochondrialrespiration,thatcomefromfermentingcoffee,andbrainoctaneoilwhichisapurified,it’soneofthe4kindsofMCTsthatraisesketones.UsuallywithinahalfhouryoucangetyourbloodketonesupenoughtosuppressghrelinandtoturnonCCK.Thesearehungerhormonesforpeoplelisteningwhoaren’tbiochemistnerds.

WhenIdothatthefirstdaywithsomeonetheoddsarethey’regoingtogo5hours.Butit’snotreallyacompletebreakfast.It’salmostlikeaformoffasting.There’sonlyfat.There’snocarbs,there’snoprotein,it’sjustfat,somepolyphenolsfromcoffee,butthehormonalresponseissostrongandsosuddenthatifyoucan’tdo5hoursafterthatlikesomethingisverybroken.Whatdoyouthinkofanapproachlikethat?It’sokaytobereallycriticalofit.You'reaverylearnedguy.What’syourtakeonthat?Isitahack?Becauseitmeetsthoserequirementsinalmosteveryone.

Barry: Ohitdoes,butagain,wegobacktotheearlyaspect,wehavetohaveadequatelevelsofessentialaminoacidsinthecourseoftheday,wehavetohaveadequatelevelsofessentialfattyacidsinthecourseoftheday,andtherightbalanceofthosetomaintaininsulininazone.Nowyou'requiteright.Thefatwouldhavenoeffectoninsulin.

ThemediumchaintriglycerideswereactuallydevelopedfirstatHarvardMedicalSchoolbackatthe80sfortreatingburnvictims.Nowhowtheyworkit’suniquebecausetheyare…Themediumchaintriglyceridesarerelativelywatersoluble.Theyenterintothebloodstreamthroughtheportalvein.Theygodirectlytotheliverandthey’remetabolizedthereonthespot.Buttodosotheywipeoutallthestorageofglycogen.That’swhereyougetinketosisveryquickly.Butnowyouhavenoreservelevelstobasicallymaintainbloodsugarlevelsforthebrain,theonlyorganthatcanbasicallyuseenergy.


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Dave: Howdotheywipeoutglycogen?Iwasn’tawareofthat.

Barry: Becauseagaintoburnthefattyacids,becausetheseshortchainfatty

acidsarealsoveryeffectivesurfactants.Theydissolvemembranes.There’sagoodreasonlet’ssayyou'reinherebutyou'reoutofhere,we’regoingtoconvertyoutoco2andwaterasquicklyaspossible.Todothisweneedsomecarbohydrates.That’swhytheyinducedtheketosis.Theytakethereservesoftheglycogen.

Nowthat’sokay.You’llgetthe5hours.Noquestionaboutthat.But,andstudiesatHarvardMedicalSchoolhaveshownthis,ifyoumaintainaketogenicdietwhatoccursafteraboutanadaptationafter1or2monthsisthatyoustarttoincreasethelevelsofcortisol.Ifyou'renotgoingtobasicallyputenoughcarbohydratesintoyourmouththebrainwillsay,sendouthisbuddyMr.cortisoltostarttearingdownmusclemasstomakeglucoseforthebrain.Thisiswhyevenduringstarvationdietswhenyou'rebringinginnofoodthatthebloodsugarlevelsneverreallydropbelowsaymaybeabout60,they’reverylowbuttheydon’tgoto0,becausethebodyisnowusingacountervailinghormonalresponsethatcanincreaseproductionofcortisolandthere’salsoacorrespondingdecreaseinthyroidhormoneproduction.

Whatyou'relookingisforthatsweetspot.I’musingtheBulletproofCoffeewiththemediumchainedtriglyceridesasanearlymorningdrink.Okay,that’sgood,butit’snotsayingwhywe’redoingallthetimebecauseotherwiseyouhavenoway,you'rebasicallyalmostinducinganincreaseincortisoldowntheroad.

Dave: Becauseyouwanttohavelunchandyouwanttohavedinnerandyouwanttohavesomecarbohydratesthen.

Barry: Youhavetobecauseagain-

Dave: Exactly.That’swhatIrecommendbytheway.

Barry: It’ssayingthatwecangetyou…Whatyou'relookingat,remember


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withthewordbreakfast,itmeanscomefrombreakingthefast.Whatyouneed,Ineedtogetsomeenergybecausewithoutthatwehaveahardtimegettingoutofbed.Again,thedevelopofketosisearlyinthemorningcangiveyouaburstofenergy,butyousayI’veusedupsomeofmyreserves,I’vegottoreplenishthem.

Dave: OneofthebiggestquestionsthatpeopleaskedonFacebookisthere’sbeenanexplosioninresearchonintermittentfasting,theideaofnoteatingfor18hoursaday.I’maproponentofdoingit,althoughduringthenon-eatingperiodIuseBulletproofCoffeetojustspikeketonessoyou'restillkeepinginsulin,you'rekeepingproteindigestingenzymeslow.Butlet’ssetasidetheBulletproofversionofthat.WhenyoulookatTheZoneprinciplesandthe40,30,30idea,andyoulookatthatinthecontextofintermittentfasting,areyouafanofintermittentfasting,notafanofit,orsometimessometimes?Likemanypeopleaskedthisquestion,sowhat’syourtakeonintermittentfasting?I’mdyingtoknowthis.

Barry: Wellthetakeisthepublishedstudieshavelookedatmeta-analysisofintermittentfastingversuslowcaloriesayingtheredoesn’tseemtobemuchofadifference.Nowbecauseitisacaloriestillisacalorie.Caloriesdocount.I’lluseanexample.Let’ssaythatifIhaveadietwhereI’mjustloadingslotsoffatinthesystem,Ihavenoreasontoreleasemystoredfatfromtheadiposetissue,becausethatfatinthebloodstreamcannowgodirectlytothemitochondriaintheliverandalsointothemusclestomakeATP.Again,toreallybasicallylivelongeryouhavetorestrictcalories.Toloseweightyouhavetorestrictcalories.Nowyouwanttodothatwithouthungerandwithoutfatigue.

Dave: Doesthatmeantheconversethough,thattoloseweightyouhavetorestrictcalories?Doesthatmeanifyourestrictcaloriesyou’llloseweight?

Barry: No.

Dave: That’sreally,forpeoplelisteningthat’sahugedifference.


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Barry: WhenwesayyouhavetorestrictcaloriesbutIsaidyoucanneverbehungryandneverbetired.YoucanneverbetiredbecauseyouhavetobeabletomakeadequatelevelsofATP.Youcan’tbehungrybecauseyou'rekeepingyourhormonesinthatzone.Nowthat’swhyacalorieisacalorie,butnotintermsofhormonalresponses.Nowwehavetosayyouhavetorestrictcaloriesbutyouhavetokeepyourhormonesinthatzonetoallowyoutofunctioninthehighestlevelsofefficiency.That’smydefinitionisthemaximumconversionofdietarycaloriestoATP.Thenyouhaveasystemyoucanfollowforlifetime.

Dave: TherearevarioussubstancesthatenhanceATPproduction.OractuallyyoucangetstraightATPanduseitsublinguallyifyouwantto.Whatroledothosehavetoplayinthatequationorhumanperformance?

Barry: Ithinkafairlysmallrole.Thebodyisanamazinglyefficientmachine,butATPisinterestingbecauseanycellinthebodywillonlystoreabout10secondsworthofATP.Youhavetomakeitondemandandyoudon’tknowwhenthatdemandisgoingtobe.BasicallythebodyhasanabilitytosayIcan’tstoreATP.Icouldeasilystoreexcessfatintheadiposetissue,butIcan’tstoreATP,butIcanmakeitondemand.NowIhavetobasicallycallinawidenumberofdifferentmechanismstodothattomaintainmyself,primarytheheart.Youthinkaboutmuscles,thereisbasicallythesupermusclethatkeepsonpumpingdayindayoutandwithoutuspayingattentiontoit,butit’sconsumingmassivelevelsofATP.Likewise,thebrainisbasicallyaglucosehogbecauseitneedsthattomaketheATPtokeepitgoing.

There’salotofnuancesbutinrealityyourgrandmotherwasatthecuttingedgeof21stbiotechnology.Shetoldyou4things.Shesaid,eatsmallmealsthroughouttheday.Why?Foodwasveryexpensiveinthosedaysandthereforeyoucanonlyhavesmallmeals.2,shesaid,haveadequateproteinandideallythroughouttheday.Notonlyadequateprotein,butadequateproteinrichinleucine.Ofthe20aminoacidsonly1,leucine,canactivateanothergenetranscriptionfactorcalledmTORthatmakesmuscle.Shealsosaid,youbasicallycan’tleavethetableuntilyoueatallyourvegetables.Why?Theycontainthe


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polyphenolsandthefermentablefiberyourgutsneed.Thelastthingyourgrandmothertoldyou,you'renotgoingtoleavethehouseuntilyoutakeyourtablespoonofcodliveroil.

Noweverythingshesaidwasrightdownattheforefrontofbiotechnology.Wow,shewasreallysmart.No,shewasreallytheaccumulationofmillenniaofobservationsofwhatworksandwhatdoesn’t.We’veletthewisdomofthoseobservationssincethebeginningofhumanhistory200,000yearsagogobythewaysideafterWorldWar2inourgoingaftercheapfood.YouopenedthePandora’sbox.Industrializedfoodsay,“Wecangiveyoufoodthat’sincrediblytasty,incrediblycheap,butthere’llbesomecollateraldamage.”

We’reseeingitrightnow.Notthecollateraldamageofobesity,butthecollateraldamageandthisgoestoyourotherquestionabouttheenvironmentalfactors,butbasicallyalteringourgenestructure.Notalteringthegenestructure,buttheexpressionandreallyattheepigeneticgeneticlevel.Thisbecomesavery,veryscaryaspect,becauseagain,wearewitnessingthedevolutionIbelieveofthehumangenome.Thiswascalledtransgenerationalepigenetics.Basicallythisiswhyeachgenerationisgettingfatter.Why?Becausethesechangesintheepigenomeisnowbeingcarriedforwardandamplifiedfromonegenerationtothenext.

Dave: Myfirstbookiscalled“TheBetterBabyBook”anditwaswhatdoyoudobeforeyougetpregnanttopreventthateffectsoyoucanhavesmarterhappierkids.Ididitformyownfamilybecausemywifewasinfertile.ShehadPCOSwhenshewas35andwehadourkidsat39and42withoutusingallthefertilitydrugsandthingslikethat,usingthisamazingdrugcalledfoodasyoucalledit,turningoffinflammation,turningdownfungalstuffthat’scorrelated,andthentryingtosendthatsignaltomywife’sbodysothatit’llselecttherighteggbasicallythatsays,“Allright,thisisanenvironmentwherethere’sadequatefat,wherethere’sadequateantioxidants,wherethere’senoughcalories,enoughbioavailablecalories,whereyoucanselectforsomeonetothriveinthatversusselectingforanenergyfamineorahighlystressedworld.”Ican’ttellyouwithanABdoubleblindstudythatthatworks.


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It’skindofhardtodothatwithpregnancy.

Barry: Wellit’shard.Actuallywe’redoingthosestudiesactuallyrightnowinItaly.IwroteatextbooklastyearcalledTheMetabolicConsequencesofPregnancy.Whythatworkedforyourwifewithpolycysticovarysyndromeit’saconditioncharacterizedbyinsulinresistance.Whatyouweredoingwasbasicallybyexperimentationsheseeminglygettingbetter,butonceIreducedtheinflammationthefertilityreturns.It’salmostmagical.

Dave: Itwasinteresting.She’sKarolinska-trainedphysician.Shepracticeddrugandalcoholaddictionintheemergencymedicine,internalmedicine,thekindofstuff,andreasonablywell-trained.Shewasnotoverweightbyalongshot,butshewasdoingacoupleofthingsthatjusttriggeredinflammation.Oneofthemwassoymilkandtheotheronewasexcessivepre-groundflaxmealconsumption,pre-oxidizedflaxseedoil.Whenwejusttookthose2thingsawayitaffectedherabilitytogainweight,likehealthyweight.Shewastoothin.It’sfunny.Thosearebothprimarytriggersforinflammationforhormonalproblems.What’syourtakebythewayonthosethings?ThoseformeIknowthatbiochemistry,atleastIthinkIdo,butwhat’syourtakeonsoybean,oratleastonsoymilkandonflaxseedspecifically,becauseflaxseedisaveryinterestingsubjectinandofitself.

Barry: Iwroteawholebookonsoycalled“TheSoyZone”surprisingly.ItwasabooktodemonstratetoevenvegansyoucouldfollowTheZonedietveryeffectively.ActuallyTheZonedietisnotadiet.Whatitisit’sablueprintofhowtobalanceyourplate.Itbringspeacetoourtimebecauseit’sadietaryblueprintthatbasicallysayswhateveryourdietaryphilosophy,youcanfollowit,becauseit’ssimplysayingtake2/3rdsofyourplateandfillitwithcolorfulcarbohydrates.They’recalledfoodsandvegetables.Thatisuniversalbetweenavegan,alactoovovegetarian,apaleo,oranomnivore.Sothey’reonlycensusforcontentionthelastthirdoftheplate.Ithastobeprotein.Ifyou'reaveganyourchoicesaresomewhatlimited.Butyoucandoit.Ifyou'realactoovovegetarianyouhavemuchgreaterchoices.Apaleoadvocate,youbasicallytakeoutcertainaspects.Ifyou'reomnivoreyouhave


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completefreedom.Butotherthanthat1/3rdoftheplatewhichbasicallyisdrivenbydietaryphilosophytheplatesareallidentical.

Nowgoingbacktothesoybean,therearealotofanti-nutrientsinsoybean.Itisnotbenign.Iwentthroughthatbookandsaidtherearesomegoodpointsaboutsoyprotein,butonlyifyouremovealloftheanti-nutrientswhicharemassiveandbecausetheycanalsohavehormonaleffectsespeciallyoninhibitingthyroidbinding.Ihadexperimentswithmyowndaughterwhobasically,shecouldn’t…Mywifehashavingtroublegettingenoughbreastmilkforhersowenttoformulamilk.Shecouldn’thandletheformulamilk,sowewenttosoymilkand10yearslatershedevelopedseverehypothyroidism.

Again,Isayit’sokayifyou'reabletobasicallytakealltheseanti-nutrientsoutandit’stough.Asfarasflaxseedwhenyougrindtheflaxseedyou'reexposingittooxidation.Flaxseedoxidizesveryquickly.Oxidizedfatisincrediblytoxicbecauseit’sgoingtosetoffacompleteseriesofinflammatoryresponses.Goingbackyoucansayatthemolecularlevelthe2thingsshedidremovedpossibilitiesofhormonaldisruptionandincreasedinflammation.

Dave: Thatmatchesmyunderstandingofthingsreallywell.Ihavealsoread,andthisisnotwellpublicized,butitlookstobetruebasedonacoupleofstudiesthatIcameacross.Whenyoulookattheamountofthesephytoestrogens,thethingsthatareestrogensthataremadebyplants,soyisaprimarysourceofthemasI’msureyouknow.Butflaxseedoiloratleastflaxseedsthemselvesaresubstantiallyhigherinphytoestrogensthanevensoy,butit’ssortoflikebakedintoeverythingassortofapanacea.IlookatlikebakedflaxseedandIgowhywouldyoudothat,becausetheoilinthatthingisclearlydamagedatthispointbecauseit’sunstablejustinair.Areyouanadvocateofflaxunderanycircumstances?

Barry: Notreally.Theflaxisrichinshortchainomega3fattyacids.Theysay,“Ohthisisgood.”Isay,“Excepttheyhavenoanti-inflammatorypropertiesunlessaretransformedintothelongerchainomega3fattyacidsfoundinfish.”Nowfishcan’tmakethese,buttheysimply


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accumulatealga.It’spondscumthatbasicallygivesusoneofthegiftsoflife.Ihavetotakeinmassiveamountsofflaxseedoil,evenifit’spurified,togetthesamebenefitofamuchsmalleramount,thesameanti-inflammatorybenefitsofamuchsmalleramountoffishoil.ButifItakeinsomuchflaxseedoilIhavegotnowareallysmokingbombinthebloodbecausethe3fattyacidgroupsarenowmuchmorepronetooxidationthanthe2fattyacidsunsaturateddoublebondsinthingslikelinoleicacid.Soyou'reputtingamuchgreateroxidativestressonthebodyandthebodyrespondstooxidativestressbyincreasedinflammation.

Dave: Soforeveryonelisteningrightnow,that’soneofthemanyreasonsthatjustliberallyputtingflaxseedoilallovertheplacemaybeisn’tagoodidea.

Barry: It’spoliticallycorrect,buthormonallyit’snotagoodidea.

Dave: Yeah,Ievenseeitinsomepaleotypeofthings.I’mlike,man,ifyoulookatthefattyacidsthings,it’sjust,it’snotmeanttobethereanddoesn’tseemlikeagoodthing.Whataboutchiaseeds?

Barry: ChiaseedsaretheflaxseedofSouthAmerica.FlaxseedsaregrownintheupperclimatesofCanadaandnorthernEurope.ChiaseedsaregrowndowninthePatagonianregioninChile.Theomega3fattyacidsinplantsgrowinresponsetocoldtemperatures.

Dave: Sothey’redifferentspeciesthough,right,asfarasIunderstand.

Barry: Differentspeciesbutbasicallyfromahumanstandpointtheyareidentical.

Dave: Nokidding,includingthephytoestrogenlevels?ThatIdidnotknow.Iknewthatthesaturatedorthemonosaturated…

Barry: There’salotofnicethingsinflaxseeds,aslongastheyaren’tgroundeduptheycontainlignanswhicharevery,veryinteresting.Itellpeople,sprinklesomeflaxseedsonameal.


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Dave: Wholeflaxseedsright?

Barry: Wholeflaxseeds,theygiveanicecrunchytaste,andyou’regainingthe

lignanswhichhassomeveryverynicebenefits,butdon’toverdoit.

Dave: Iusedtotakeflaxlignans.Ittook45poundsofflaxtomakealittlebottleofflaxlignans.ThatseemedlikethebestwaytoenjoyflaxbutitwaskindofexpensiveandI’mnotsure-

Barry: Yeah,again,you'restillgettingalotofomega3fattyacids,theshortonesandoxidizedoneswiththoselignans.

Dave: Veryfairpoint.ItwasyourworkthatoriginallyledmetochangehowIcookbecauseyouhelpedmetounderstand,allright,oxidizedfatsofanyflavorarebadforyouandwhereIendedupis,“Okay,ifI’mgoingtobecookingsomethingthatcontainsfat,”likeItrynottocookwithfat,ifIcooksomethingwithfatinit,IusuallyaddalittlebitofwaterandIuselotsofantioxidantspicesonit,becausethewaterkeepsthetemperaturedownsoyou'renotgoingtogettheburnertemperature,you'regoingtogetthetemperatureofsteamandnomore.Ibelievethatcookingisoneofthosethingsthattriggersinflammationinawaythatpeopleoftenjustdon’tthinkabout.Youseethesepaleomealsandlike,“Whatdidyoudotothatrib,”like,“I’mnotsurethatthat’sagoodthingtoeatanymore.”

Barry: Wellyeah,thisiswhythere’ssomevery,verygoodscientificstudiesonpaleo,Paleolithic…ActuallyTheZoneDietstartedwhenIreadthepaperbyBoydEatoninthe1985-

Dave: Nokidding.

Barry: NewEnglandJournalofMedicineoflookingatwhathethoughtatthetimewasthebestratioofprotein,carbohydrate,andfat.Nowin2010Boydandothercolleagueswereallacademicresearchers,updatedtheirstudiesandtheysaidtoourbestestimate,whatthePaleolithicdietatleastineastAfricawas15,000yearsagowasIbelieve40%


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carbohydrates,31%fat,and29%protein.Isaid,“That’sgoodenough.I’lltakethat.”

Dave: That’sprettydifferentthan40,30,30.Imean,comeonBarry.

Barry: Iknow,Iknow.Ohyeah.Butit’sgoodenoughforgovernmentwork.ButthethingthatsamearticlepointedoutthatthosesamePaleolithicindividualswereeatingbetween6and14gramsadayoflongchainomega3fattyacidsfromfish.That’swhyyoulookathumanevolution,muchofitwasalwaysalongtheseacoastbecauseitwasfishthatgaveustheabilitytobreakoutofthemoldandbasicallyimproveourbrainpower.

Dave: Let’stalkaboutthatforalittlewhile.WehaveEPAandwehaveDHA,likethe2fishoils.Youtalkedaboutcodliveroilfromourgrandmothersearlier.NowI’mafanofkrilloilbecauseit’sphospholipid,becauseit’smorebioavailableforthebrain,becausethere’santioxidantsinit.Butforpeoplelisteningthere’sagoodnumberofthemwhoeatfishlikeIdo,there’sagoodnumberofthemwhosupplementwitheitherfishoilorsomeotherpotentiallypondscumderivedkindofomega3.WhatistheidealEPAtoDHAratioinasupplementthatyou’drecommend?

Barry: Again,we’vegoneovertheyears,we’vealwaysusedreallya2to1ratioofEPAtoDHA.ThereasonwhyIalwayslikebothbecausetheydodifferentthings.TheEPAismoreanti-inflammatorythantheDHA.DHAhasstructuralpropertiesthatmakeitveryuniquecomparedtotheEPAandbothathighlevelscanmakeanothergroupofhormonescalledresolventswhicharereallytheholygrailofmedicine.Youneedthembothbutyouneedadequatelevels.

WhatItrytodoisnotsayhowmuchyoushouldeatbuttellpeople,“Thebloodwilltellyou.”Thisisnotaguessinggame.Takeabloodtest.Nowpeoplehatetotakebloodtests.Why?Ithurts.That’swhymostpeoplehavetheirannualphysicalevery5years.Butnowthat’swhywe’vedevelopedthefingersticktest,adropofbloodyoucanmeasurenowallthefattyacids.Butwelookfortheratio-


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Dave: Inadropofblood?

Barry: …DHAbutofarachidonicacidtoEPA.That’sthemarkerof

inflammation.Yourgoalistokeepupbetween1.5and3.Becausethat’sasweetspotofcontrollinginflammation.Forexample,theaverageAmericanis18,whichexplainswhyourhealthcarecostissohigh.

Dave: Youjustreadmymind.Mynextquestionwasgoingtobe,ifImeasuremybloodandIlookatmyomega6toomega3ratio,whatshoulditbeandyousaid1.5and…

Barry: And3.

Dave: And3.

Barry: Butthat’sreallytheratioofarachidonicacid,whichistheprecursorofthehormones,thedirectprecursor,andEPA,thedirectprecursoroftheanti-inflammatoryhormones.

Dave: It’sadifferentnumberthenbecauseit’sjustofoneofthethings.Forsupplementationyoudo2EPAfor1DHA.

Barry: Yes.Again,thekeyisnotlookingsomuchtheratiobutyouneedadequatelevelsofboth,andthat’swhybasicallyyou'retitratingthegoal.Justlikeyoudowithstatinsyoutitratethegoal.HowmuchstatinshouldItakedoc?Well,let’scheckyourblood.Ifit’stoohigh,I’llgiveyoumorestatins.Ofcoursemoresideeffectsbutmorestatins.Thesameistrueofomega3fattyacids.HowmuchshouldItake?Thebloodwilltellyou.

Dave: Whatifyougettoomanythough?Imean,therearesomepeoplesayingtoomuchfishoilcanmessyouup,andI’veseenthathappen.Howdoyouknowwhenyou’vegottoomuch?

Barry: Wellthere’s2thingsaboutfishoil.1,mostfishoilinthemarketis


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basicallyunsuitableforhumanconsumption.Theymakeflaxseedlookgood.2,canyoutaketoomuch?Ofcourseyoucan.ActuallyaverygoodstudyitwascalledTheJELISstudy,some18,000Japanesewhoalreadyhadalowratioandthey’realltakingstatinsbuttheytookmorefishoil,halvedit.Byloweringtheirratiofrom1.5,whichyoufindintheJapanesepopulation,to0.8yousawasignificantimprovementorsignificantreductionincardiovasculareventseventhoughthey’realltakingthestatin.Buttherewasanincreaseincluded.That’swhyIliketouseasastopgapnevergobelow1.5butnevergoabove3.

Dave: Nowyoumentionedstatinsacoupleoftimesthere.Areyouauserofstatins?Doyouadvocatethem?

Barry: Please,no,Ihatestatins.

Dave: Youhadmescaredforaminutethere.Barry,Iwaslike,“Ohman,Idon’thavelikeI’mstillpromotingstatinsonmyshow.”LikeIwouldifyouhadagoodargumentbutokay.

Barry: Ihavenogoodargumentswhatsoever.Thestatinsaretheonlydrugknowntomedicalsciencethatcanincreasetheproductionofarachidonicacid.Thisiswhycardiologistslovestatins,neurologistshatestatins.Statinswerepoisedasusinganadforthedrugcompaniesthat’sveryeffective,“Ifyourcholesterollevelsarehighyou'regoingtodie.”That’snottruebutit’sagreat,agreatad.

Thefactisthatstatinswerenotthefirstdrugstolowercholesterol.Theywerethe19th.Thefirst18allloweredcholesterolbuttheyincreasedmortality.Somehowstatins,they,“Ohmygod,theydidn’tincreasemortalityandweactuallyloweredcholesterol.Itworks.”Itturnsoutthatthereasonwhybecauseitturnsoutthestatinshadanunknownsideeffect.They’realsoanti-inflammatorydrugs.That’sthereasonwhytheyworked.Buteventoday,peopletakingstatins,they’llhavebetweena10to20%chanceofgettingaheartattackwithinthefirstyear.

Dave: Becauseofmitochondrialpoisoningbasically.


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Barry: Thesearenastylittledrugs.Again,themostcommonsideeffectis

againlossofmemory,besidesthemuscleweakness.Butthemarketinghasbeensuperb.Thescaretacticshavebeenamazing.

Dave: There’sonestatindrugthatIabsolutelylovethatreallyhelpedmetofeelamazing,itwasthefirststatindrugeverdiscovered,it’scallednystatin.It’santifungalagentthatisn’tabsorbedanddoesn’thaveamitochondrialeffect,buteverystatindrugthereisisapotentanti-fungal,whichisaveryinterestingsideeffect,becauseifyouhaveafungalinfectiondependingonthetypeoffungusitisyourbodywillraisecholesterolasawaytohelpescortthosefungalborntoxinsoutofthebody.I’mnotsayingthat’stheprimaryreasontheywork,it’snot,butit’saninterestingthingthatthere’stheselittleanglestothedrugsthat’sjustnotknown.ButIdoknowthataffectingthefungusgrowinginthegutcanhaveaprofoundeffectonweightloss.

Barry: Ohnoquestion,andnowwecometothewholeareaofguthealth.

Dave: Yeah,let’stalkaboutthat.

Barry: Hippocratessaidthis2500yearsago.Hesaid2things,letfoodbeyourmedicine,letmedicinebeyourfood.Whatdidtheoldguyknow?Healsosaid,alldiseasebeginsinthebowel.He’sprobablyright,becauseagain,wenowknowoneoftheproblemswascalledmetabolicendotoxemia.Thatbasicallyverysmallfragmentsofbacteria,justgram-negativebacteria,ifwehaveeventhetraceamountsofaleakygutcangetintotheblood,andoncethey’reinthebloodyousetoffDefcon3ofbasicallynotasmuchasyouwouldgetwithasepsiswhichmeansdeathtohalftopeoplewhogetit,butatmaybe100timeslowerlevelswherebasicallyyounowareincreasinglowlevelchronicinflammationbelowtheperceptionofpain.

Thisishowwhy80%ofallantibioticsmadeinAmericaaresoldgiventoraisingfarmgrazedbeef,chickens,andcattle.Why?Theybasicallycausedysbiosisinthegutleadingtoaleakygutsyndromewherejustenoughofagram-negativebacteriaenterthebloodstream,they


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interactwithtoll-likereceptor4,theycausechronicinflammation,andoneofthefirstaspectsyougainweightveryquickly.It’sworkedverywellforanimalsinthelast50years.Italsoworksforhumans.

Dave: Thisisoneoftheprimary,primaryreasonsthatwhenpeoplesayit’scaloriesin,caloriesout,youjusthavetoexercisemoreandbasicallyyou'refatandlazyandhavenoself-controlifyou'refat.It’slike,look,youcantakeacowandyoucangivethemhormonesintheirear,xenoestrogenscalledzerinolwhichcomefrommycotoxinpurifiedfromaspergillus,oryoucangivethemantibioticsandeitherone…

Barry: Verylowlevels.Itdoesn’ttakemuch.

Dave: Yeah,verylowlevelsgivesthema30%increaseinfeedefficiency,whichmeansthecowgotfaton30%lesscalories,whichisimpossibleifit’scaloriesinandcaloriesout.Likehowisthishappening.Somehowitis.

Barry: Thisisthecomplexityofnutrition,thatoftentimespeoplegrabontosaying,“Thisistheholygrail,”andsaying,“Comeon,comeon,thisisthe21stcentury,thisisacomplexinterplay.”Butpeoplearelookingforsimpleanswersandtherearenosimpleanswers.Becausewhenwetalkaboutnutritionwearetalkingaboutreallygeneticchange,geneticchangeofourgenesandepigeneticchanges.Thisisincrediblycomplex.

Butwe’reunderstandingnowhowfoodcanbasicallychangeourepigenomevery,veryquickly,andalsoaffectbasicallythroughthesegenetranscriptionfactorswhichweretotallyunknown10yearsagototurngenesonandoff,eithertoourbenefitortoourdetriment.That’swhyI’vehadtheluxuryofbeinginthebusinesslongenough,IguessasWoodyAllensaid,“Stickingaroundlongenoughistheprimarycauseofsuccess,”toseethingsriseandfall,buttryingtoputtogetheranoverallview.That’swhyIsaynobodyintheolddays,therewasmyself,BobAtkins,andDeanOrnish.Bobsaying,“Carbohydratesareevil.”Deansaying,“No,fatsareevil.”Isaid,“Guys,maybeinformationisevil.”Ithoughtsaying,“Hey,thisisgreat.Wecanbelikethe3tenors


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andtakeourshowontheroad,”exceptBobAtkinsandDeanOrnishhatedeachothersomuchIcouldn’tkeepup.

Butnowwehavemuchmorecompetingaspectsbecauseittakestimetobasicallybeawareofallthethingswhichhaveoccurredoverthelast30years,40years,50yearsandputthemintoperspectiveandbeingopenmindedthatalotofnewthings,likeIsaid,polyphenols,nothingwasknownaboutthem.NowwhenIfirstsawthemIsaid,“Okay,that’swhyIwritebooks,becausetheareaofhumannutritionisconstantlyexploding,becausetheareaofinflammationisconstantlyexplodingandhowthe2intersect.”Formeit’sjustawonderfuladventurethatneverchanges.Butcertainthingsgobacktoyourgrandmother,she’srightontargetwiththe4points,followthatandyoucandoprettywell.Aslongasyourwatchworks,ifyou'renothungryit’sworking.

Dave: Icouldn’tagreemoreonthatrule.You'rethefirstpersonI’veheardelucidateitthatway,butyeah,ifyouhavetoeatbefore5hoursthere…Actually,I’mafanofblamethere,becauselikeit’syourfault.It’sbecausewhenyouateinyourlastmealwasn’tright,andthat’sokay,butyoudidhavecontrolofthat.

Barry: Youtakethatasateachingmoment.

Dave: Yes,notasablamethingatall,butit’slike,look,youhadcontrolandyoudidn’tmaketherightchoice,butnowyouknowyouhadcontrolwhichtechnicallymakesityourfault,butitmeansyoucanfixitandlikeit’seasy.

Barry: Exactly.That’swhypeoplethinkthatdiets,“OhIhadabadmeal.”Isay,“Hey,getalife.Youhadabadmeal,butyouknowhowtogetbackontrack.”

Dave: Right.Ihaveacouplemorequestionsfromlisteners.Oneofthemis,“Allright.Whataboutbutter?”I’mprobablytheworld’sbiggestchampionofgrass-fedbutter,notindustrialbutter,whichdifferentomega3s,stufflikethat.What’syourtakeonbutter?


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Barry: Well,there’sgoodthingsandbadthings.Thegoodthings,Idolikethe

conjugatedlinoleicacid.It’saveryinterestingonebecauseit’saveryspecificstereoisomerinbutter,unlikethestuffyoubuyinahealthfoodstorewhichactuallycausesinsulinresistance.

Dave: Really?That’sinteresting.

Barry: Ohyeah.Theotherisomerthat’snotnaturallyfoundinbutterorbeefproductsbasicallycausesinsulinresistance.That’swhywhenyoubasicallydostudiesthatmixesthe2yougetusuallynoresults.Ifyoubasicallyhaveonlyoneisomeryougetvery,verygoodresults.Fromthatstandpointbutterisaverygoodwayofconcentratingthenaturalandmostbeneficialformoftheisomerofconjugatedlinoleicacid.

WhatIdon’tlikeaboutbutteristhatit’srarelyrichinpalmiticacid.NowstearicacidIactuallylikebecausestearicacidonceit’sabsorbedisrapidlydesaturatedintooleicacid.That’swhystearicacidistheonlysaturatedfatthatwillnotraisecholesterol.Nowpalmiticacidit’salmostthesame.It’saboutthesame,it’salmosttotallydifferent.Palmiticacidisavery,verypowerfulpro-inflammatorysaturatedfat.Onthescaleof1to10Igiveita15,becauseitcaninteractwithspecificreceptorsincellsandthesamereceptorsthatbasicallyrecognizethefragmentsofthegram-negativebacteria,lipopolysaccharides,theybasicallyrecognizethepalmiticacid.

Furthermore,thepalmiticacidisonethatcaninteractwithourhypothalamusanddisruptthesatietysignals.That’swhywhenyoulookatanimalstudieswhenyoufeedthemahighfatdietthat’susuallyhighinsaturatedfat,theygetfatveryrapidly.Why?Theystarteating.It’ssayingthatifIcouldfindsaturated…Let’ssaycoconutoil,oneofthegoodthingsaboutcoconutoilisverylowinpalmiticacid.Therefore,okay,I’mnotgoingtohavetheinflammatoryeffects.Unfortunately,basicallywillhavesomeeffectsifItaketoomuchandthenI’llwipeoutmyglycogenstores.Butasasaturatedfatit’snotbad.

Butterhassomegoodpartsbecauseithastheconjugatedlinoleicacid,


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butitalsohasthepalmiticacid.Again,webasicallyhavetolook,weightheconsequences.

Dave: OneoftheearlyreasonsthatIincludedatfirstjustregularMCTandeventuallyIrealizedthatsomeMCTsdon’tmetabolizethesamewaysasothers.Iusejustoneofthe4kindofMCTnow,thebrainoctane,theC8,butthattypeofMCTactuallyisprotectiveinthepresenceoflipopolysaccharidesandpalmiticacid,whichispresentinbutter,enhanceslipopolysaccharideabsorption.LPSsaremadebybadbacteriainthegutjustforpeoplelistening.

Thenthosecanmigrateacrossthegutwallwhenyouhaveanyhighfatmeal.Butwhenyouhavesomethingthathelpstoprotecttheliverfromthoseatthesametime,atleastinmyexperience,Idon’tgetanyofthathungerthing.LikepeopledoBulletproofCoffeeandhungerissuppressedinawaythatmostpeopleneverexperience.Itisaprofoundthing.ButifIdojustbrainoctaneoilwithoutanyotherfatsitdoesn’tseemtoworkaswell,likeyoudon’tgetthefullsatiety,likeyougetthelonglivesatietywhenyouhavethebutterandyougettheshorttermlikeI’msodonefromthebrainoctane.Ihaven’tfiguredallofthereasons.

Barry: Italkedaboutacoupleofgoodthingsaboutthebutter,therightisomerofconjugantlinoleicacid.Remember,butterisalsorichinstearicacid.

Dave: That’strue.

Barry: Stearicacidisonceit’sconvertedisrapidlyconvertedtooleicacid.That’swhynowtheoleicacidisthenconvertedtobasicallytheethanolamideversionwhichisaverypowerfulnowsatietyhormone.It’snottheoleicaciditself,it’sonlywhenit’sconvertedtotheethanolamineversionofoleicacidthatitcannowinteractwiththehypothalamusandsaystopeating.

Dave: Soitcouldbeastearicacideffect.Interesting.Iwouldlovetoknowallthereasonandthere’sabunchofotheronesIhypothesizeinthe


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Bulletproofdiet.ButIdoknowthat,wow,weightlossisaloteasierwhenyou'rejustnothungry.

Barry: That’sthewholesecret.Ourwholemissiontobasicallycontrolobesity,metabolicsyndrome,diabeteshasfailedmiserably.Buttheanswerisquitesimple.Ifyou'reneverhungry,youeatlesscalories.Youeatlesscalories,yourbloodsugargoesdown,yourbloodlipidsgodown,yourbloodpressuregoesdown.Butit’shardtoeatlesscaloriesifyou'realwayshungryandalwaystired.

Thesecrettobasicallycombatingallthesemetabolicdisordersistobasicallyincreasesatiety.Thebattlegroundisnolongertheblood,it’sthehypothalamus.That’sbasicallytheintegrationcenterforallthesehormonalinputsgoingfromthegutandthebloodtothebrainthatsayeithereatornoteat.Whoeverbasicallysolvesthisbesthassolvedbasicallythemajormedicalproblemofthe21stcentury.

Dave: Well,Ibelievethatthereismajorprogressbeingmade.That’sforsure.Iftherewasonlyonesupplementyoucouldtakewhatwoulditbe?

Barry: Omega3fattyacids.

Dave: Andkrilloil,fishoil,whatwouldyoutake?

Barry: No,Iwouldn’ttakeanykrilloilforthefollowingreasons.1,thekrilloilagainastudypublishedabout2yearsagobyNormanSalemshowthatthebioavailabilityisaboutthesamewhenyouhaveequal-

Dave: Interesting,Ihaven’tseenthatone.

Barry: Anotherstudycameoutonly2weeksago,basicallymadethestatementthatthekrilloilactuallyincreasesinsulinresistance.

Dave: Okay.I’vegottoseethis.Sorry,I’llhavetolookthatup.

Barry: I’llsendittoyou.


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Dave: Okay,thankyou.I’dreallylikethat,becauseI’llchangemyrecommendations.

Barry: It’saveryinterestingstudy.Krilloilit’salittledirty.Imean,peoplesay,“Itcamefromthearcticwaters.Ithastobeclean.”Becausethekrill,whicharesmallshrimpbasicallyalsocontainPCBs.Nowmostpeopledon’tknowmuchaboutkrilloilproduction,butit’sallthatsimilarfromsoybeanoilproduction.Youtakethekrill,youdrythemdown,youextractthemofgasoline,hexane.Youtakethegasolineextractandthenaddanailpolishremover,acetone,toprecipitateoutthephospholipids.Butsomeofthephospholipidsthatsomearemonoglyceridesandsomearefreefattyacids,sothere’sakindoflikeameshtherebutyouhavenowayofpurifyingit.Ithinkthekrilloilstoryis,againwegobacktosaying,you’vegottoeatenough.Again,number1thingIsay,letthebloodtellyou.Thebloodwilltellyouhowmuchyouneed.

Dave: Ilikethat.

Barry: That’swhywegobacknowtopersonalizednutrition.Thebloodwilltellyouwhatyouhavetodo.Iuse3parametersfrommymarkersofwellness.Wehavelotsofmarkersofdisease,veryfewmarkersofwellness.OnemarkerofwellnessistheratioofarachidonicacidtoEPA.TheJapanesekeepitbetweenabout1.5,buttheyarebiggesteatersoffishintheworld,asaconsequencetheirlevelsofPCBsintheirbloodareneartheupperlimitsetbytheWorldHealthOrganization.

AnotherparameteristheratiooftriglyceridestoHDLontheblood.That’samarkerofinsulinresistanceintheliver.Insulinresistanceactuallymanifestsfirstintheliverbeforeotherorganslikethemusclesorevenadiposetissue.

Thefinaloneisglycosylatedhemoglobin.Wethinkofthisasonlyfordiabetics.Butactuallyit’sforeveryone.Thesweetspot,whetheryouwanttobethatgivesmaximumlongevityisabout5.0.Maybethat’s1%oftheUSpopulation.Theysay,“Ohifyou're6.1and6.5you'reokay.”


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Noyouaren’t.Togetdownto5.0isreallyhardwork.

Dave: Youhavetobasicallyeatalotlessfructosetogetthere.

Barry: No,alotlesscarbohydrates.

Dave: Lesscarbsingeneral.

Barry: Glycosylatedhemoglobin.Thefactofthestoryisonethatbasicallyalsonothasundercarefulstudiesissayingcomesee,comesaw.Thesecretiskeepallcarbohydratestoalowerlevelandyou'relookingattheglycosylatedhemoglobinasyourmarkerofsayingthat’swhereIwanttobe.Dependingonwhatyourbloodtellsyou,ittellsyouwhatyouhavetodoinyourdiettokeepadjustingeachofthoseparameters,becauseyoucan’tbeconsideredwellunlessall3ofthoseparametersareintheirappropriateranges.We’vesaidfortheglycosylatedhemoglobinabout5,andtriglyceridestoHDLlessthan1.

Dave: Forpeoplelisteningwe’llincludethenamesofallthesetestssoyoucantothetranscriptofthisepisodeandgetitallbecauseIimagineifyou'redrivingrightnowyou'retryingtowriteallthisdownandpausingyouriPhone,youdon’thavetodothat.

Barry: Ortexting,evenworse.

Dave: Yeah,exactly.Soallofthisstuffisthere.It’sonthewebsite.It’ssearchable.It’sallright.ThisisreallypreciousknowledgeandIdotrackallofthosethings.Idon’tknowifIdomyglycosylatedhemoglobinquiteasregularlyasIshouldbutIdefinitelytrackthosething.Idon’tremembermylastnumber.

Barry: Becauseyou'redoingtherightthing.YouhavetobasicallyhaveaconstantofbasicallyreallywaystationsthatsayhowamIdoing,howamIdoingintermsofcontrollingmyfuture,andsaying,thebestmarkerismyblood.I’mlookingtomaintainazoneofwellnessaslongaspossible.


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Dave: Thatisagreatwayoflookingatit.2morequestionsandthenwe’redone.Oneis,andthisisfromFacebook,whatdoyouthinkaboutCBDoilforinflammation?

Barry: It’sinterestingbecauseagain,itinteractswiththesamereceptorsinthebrainasendocannabinoids.IthassomepotentialbenefitsbutthesameendocannabinoidsandtheCBDwouldalsobelikelytodothatcancausehunger.That’swhyoneofthefirstsideeffectsforthosewhowouldactuallysmokemarijuanaintheolddaysyougotthemunchies.It’sveryhardtobasicallycontrolhungerifthoseCB1receptorsinthebrainarebeingactivatedbyendocannabinoidsornaturalcannabinoids.Ithinkithassomebenefitsbutthere’sstillalottobeseen.

Dave: Okay,moreresearchthere.Cool.ThefinalquestionisonethatI’veaskedallguestsonBulletproofRadio,andI’vealwayslearnedalotfromthis.Ifsomeonecametoyoutomorrowandsaid,“Look,IwanttobebetterateverythingIdoinmylife.LikeIwanttokickmoreassateverything,notjustexercise,notjustcareer,butjustIwanttobebetteringeneral.Whatarethe3mostimportantthingsIneedtoknowbasedonyourentiresetofexperience?”

Barry: Well,Ithinkthefirstthingyouhavetohaveaphilosophy.Ifyoudon’thaveaphilosophyyoudon’thavearunner.Youcan’tbasically,youdon’tknowwhereyou'regoingunlessyouhaveagameplan.OneofthebestgameplansIthinkthathaseverbeendevelopedwasreallystoicphilosophy.It’sbeenaroundfor2500years.Itworksverywell.Itsaysyou'reresponsibleforeverythingthathappenstoyou.You'reresponsibleforyourownhappinessandnothappiness.Havingaphilosophyisagoodstartingpoint.

Thenapplyingthatphilosophytoeverythingyoudo.Here’sthethingsyouhavetodo.Youhavetoeatright,andthebloodwilltellyouifyou'redoingthat.Youhavetoexercise.Andyouneedtohavestressreduction.Nowifyoucanbasicallydothosethings,andofthe3thestressreductionbecomesoftentimesthemostdifficult.Why?Idon’thavetimetositinacomfortablechairfor20minutesandthinkof


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nothing.It’sanamazinglypowerfultool.Issaying,thesearethethingsyouhavetobemaketimefor,otherwiseyourlifewillbealotlessenjoyablethanotherwisecouldbe.

Dave: Awesome.That’sagreatanswer.Dr.BarrySears,wherecanpeoplefindoutmoreaboutyourworkbesides…Obviouslyyou'reeasytofindonAmazon,butwhatwebsitesshouldtheygotocheckoutyourlatestwork?

Barry: Ithinkprobablythemostpeoplecangotothezonediet.combecausethiscouldgiveyouexplanationsaboutinflammationandreallydietinducedinflammation.

Dave: Beautiful.Well,Iabsolutelyendorseyourwork.You'reoneofthefirstpeopletotalkaboutinflammationinsuchameaningfulwayandhadaprofoundeffectonmyownthinkingandonmyownpathtolosing100poundsandkeepingoffthisamountoftime.Sothanksforyourlife’swork.It’sreallymadeadifference.

Barry: Wellthankyoufortheopportunitybeingonyourshow.Andcongratulationsontheexcellentwork.Losingweightiseasy.Keepingitoff,that’sthehardpart.

Dave: Absolutely.Ifyouenjoyedtoday’sepisodeyouknowwhattodo.CheckoutDr.BarrySearsworkatzonediet.com,there’salotofvaluethere,andthinkaboutwhatyoucandotomovetheneedleintherightwayforthe3biomarkershetalkedaboutforanyoftheinflammatorythingslikehomocysteine,lppL2,C-reactiveprotein,theotherthingsthatItalkabout,becauseanythingyou'regoingtodothatlowersyourinflammationisgoingtomakeyounotjustfeelbetter,it’sactuallygoingtomakeyounicer.Whenyou'renicertoallthepeoplearoundyouwellthefirstthingyou'regoingtowanttodoisdrinkmoreBulletproofCoffee.No,notreally.I’mgivingyouahardtime.ButwhatIdowanttosaythoughisseriously,whenyougetontopoftheinflammationthefirstplaceyoufeelitisinyourbrain,yourpersonalitywillchange,youactuallyarenicer,andthatweallwinandyoucandothatwithoutbuyingasinglething.Haveanawesomeday.


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Transcript of “300 with Barry Sears” · PDF filefor a face-to-face consultation...

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Transcript of Transcript of “300 with Barry Sears” · PDF filefor a face-to-face consultation...