Transcript – Hugs from Dr. Love with Paul Zak -...

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Transcript – Hugs from Dr. Love with Paul Zak - #334

Bulletproof Radio Paul Zak #334

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Speaker1: IfyouarearegularlistenerofBulletproofRadio,you'vealreadyheardthelistofthetop10

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Speaker2: BulletproofRadio.Astateofhighperformance.

Dave: YouarelisteningtoBulletproofRadioandI'mDaveAsprey.Today'scoolfactofthedayisthatresearchersintheUKmeasuredthetestosteroneandcortisollevelsof17youngmalestocktraderstoseehowtheylinkedtobehavior.Whattheyfoundwasapositiveconnectionbetweentestosteroneandprofits,butcortisol,thestresshormoneshotup,notbecauseoflossesbutbecauseoftheanticipationofmarketvolatilityandthepossibilityofbiggerprofits.Basically,thesestocktradersweretweakedallthetimeasfarasIcantell.

Beforewegetintotheshow,ifyou'vebeenlisteningtotheshowforawhileofevenreadingtheblogs,I'vetalkedalotaboutthebenefitsofbeingelectricallygroundedtotheearth,wecallitearthing.Nowthereissomethingcalledearthingsandalsandtheybringyoutheexperienceoflivinggroundedtotheearththewayalllifehasevolvedontheplanetthroughouttime.Withthenewearthrunnersandals,thereisaminimaloutsoleandaconductivegroundedlacethatallowsyoutostaytruetocomfortandfreedomwhilegoingbarefootandnotbeinglimitedtowhereyouareallowedtogowithnormalshoeson.EarthRunners’simpledesignisinspiredbyancientHuarachesandalsthatwerefeaturedinthefamousbook,borntorun.

It'sactuallyadesignthatwasusedbytheTarahumaraNativeAmericanIndians.Thereasontheyworkisthatthereare2parallelstitchesofsilvercoatedconductivethreadthatrunuptheentire


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lengthandtheyaretiedtothebottomofthesandalwithacopperplugthatkeepsyougrounded.Youarestillwearingshoes,butyouareabletogettheelectricalbenefitsofbeingbarefoot.It'sreallycomfortableandthereisaminimalistdesignthathassomethingcalledazero-dropsolethatallowsyourfoottomovenaturallyanditgivesyouareallywidetoeareasoyourtoescansplitoutthewaytheyweresupposedto.

Normal,modernrubbershoesinterruptyourbody'sabilitytoconnectwiththeearthanditactuallyhasbiologicalconsequences.Whenyouareprobablyconnectedtotheearth,youcanworkwiththeCircadianrhythmoftheplanetfor24hourcyclebecauseyouareabletopickuptheshoe-manregimensviaearthingshoeswhichallowsyoutoslowdownandcalibratetoamorenaturalalphabrainwavestate.Gotoearthrunners.comandget10%offyournextpairofearthrunnersandalsbyenteringcouponcode,BulletproofTen.That'searthrunners.comandentercouponcodeBulletproofTen.YouheardabouttheBulletproof4thannualBiohackingConference?About3andahalfyearsago,IinvitedahundredpeopletocomeandspendadaywithmehackingthemselvesinSanFrancisco.ThisyearinPasadena,California,onSeptember23rdto25th,weareexpectingabout3000peoplecomingtohackthemselvestoupgradetheirbiology.

Yougettoactuallyplaywiththetoys,experiencethem,andlearnfromleadingexpertsandcuttingedgetechfirms,stemcelldiscoveries,virtualreality,sleephacking,neuralhacking.Allsortsofcoolstuff.Ifyouwanttoradicallychangeandimprovewhoyouareandwhatyouarecapableofdoing,comeandcheckitout.Thisismyfavoriteeventoftheyear.IputittogethersoIcouldhangoutwithallthecoolestpeopleIcanimagineandtheyallcometogetherinoneplace;Bulletproofconference.comiswhereyoucanfindoutmore.

Today'sguestisafriendandanamazinglycoolguy.ImethimoverdinnerwhenIhadnoideawhathedid.HewalkedupandgavemethisbighugandI'mlike,"Wow,thisguyislikeamajorhuggerhere."Itwasn'tjustlikealittlehug,itwasabighug.Isaid,"Whydoyoudothat?"He'slike,"Oh,it'sgoodforyou."Hewasprettyvagueaboutitbecausehewasn'tallowedtotellmewhathedidforalivingatthisdinner.ItwasacooldinnercalledaninfluencerdinnerputonbyanotherfriendJonathanLevy.Thisiswherethereisalltheseinfluentialpeopleinaroomandyoudon'tknowwhattheydo.ImetPaulZakthereandPaulwassittingtherehuggingandIdidn'tknowthathe'sbasicallyknownasDr.Loveforbeingtheprimaryforcebehindthediscoveryofoxytocinandwhatitdoesforus.

Itturnsouthuggingmakesahugedifferenceforyouanditraisesoxytocin.YoumighthaveseenPaul'stalkcalledtheMoralMoleculethathadamillionviewsasaTedTalk.Hewroteabookin2012calledtheMoralMolecule.HewroteabookcalledMoralMarketsin2008.Lookingatourvalues.OneofthemoreinterestingguysI'vemetinthelastyearbecausePaulhasdegreesinmathandeconomicsandneuroimagingfromHarvard.Youdon'tseealotofpeopleorprofessorsofneurologyandprofessorsofeconomicsinpsychologyandmanagementatbiguniversities.Paulisbasicallyatotalbadass,pullingtogetherallthesedisparatethingsandactuallyfuntohangoutwith.

Paul,welcometotheshow.


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Paul: ThanksDave.ThatwasthenicestintroI'veeverhadinmylife.NowI'minyourhands,I'lldoanything.You'vegotme.

Dave: Awesome.Itwasallauthenticandrealbecauseourmeetinginpersonwasreallycool.I,ofcourse,didn'trecognizeyouwhenwemet,butIwasfamiliarwithsomeofyourwork.I'mlike,"Oh,IjusthavedinnerwithPaulZack.Thisissocool."Thereweresomeothermovie,celebritypeople,butIdidn'tknowwhotheywereeither,butyouwerewaymoreinteresting,justkidding.

Paul: Ifeelthesamewayaboutyou.Weareinnovatorsandinventors,right?Weclingtoeachotherbecausewegetwhattheotherpersonisdoing.Itwassuchagreatdinner.

Dave: Reallywas.Theotherguy...Thereactuallyeveryonewasreallyfascinating,buttheguyfromMythBusterswastheretoo.Hewasprettyinteresting.

Paul: AdamSavage.

Dave: Let'sgetgoing.Yournewbook,isitokayifItalkaboutyournewbook?

Paul: Sure.

Dave: Cool.Iknowyouareinthemiddleofeditingyourbook,I'minthemiddleofeditingmybook,butyouneverknowwhentheyaregoingtocomeout.YourcomesoutinJanuaryIthink.Iwanttoreadit.Infact,ifIcanhaveanearlycopyIwanttoreadit.I'llsaynicethingsaboutitobviouslyassumingit'sworthit,butitwillbe.It'scalledTrustFactor;TheScienceofCreatingHighPerformancecompaniesandIhaveapersonalinteresttodothatbecausethat'swhatI'mdoing.Whendoesitcomeout?

Paul: ComesoutJanuary17th,2017.Heythatsoundslikeaniceringtoit.

Dave: Itdoes.

Paul: Yeah.Itgrewout...Youprobablyknowthisasanentrepreneur,sometimespeoplethinkthatweentrepreneursorscientistsheresitonthelabandgo,"Oh,I'vegotagreatidea."Actually,whatwe'vedoneinmylabistrytobeexternallyfocused.Havealotofideas,mostofthemareprobablycrazy.Wetrytolistenalottootherpeople,soasyoumentionedtherelikeinmyTedTalk,Ididalotofworkonwhywetruststrangers.Neurologically,environmentally,whatmakesustruststrangers?Wecan'tsurvivealone.Whatbrainsignalstelluswhywetrustotherpeopleandhowdoweunderstandwhatpromotesorinhibitsthosesignals?Trust,we'veshownisa...Economiclubricant,whentrustishigher,thenpeopleactuallyengageinmoreinteractionsandsomeofthosecreatewealth.Workingonthis,workingonalotofotherthingsandthenknockonmylabdoor,someexecutivescameinandsaid,"Wethinktrustisimportantforourcompany,couldyouhelpusunderstandhowtocreatehightrustcultures?"

Asyouknow,alotofpaperworkisdonewithdrawingbloodandusingsensorstothebrain.Isaid,"Sure,I'llcometoyouroffice.We'lltakebloodfromyourcolleagues.Theyturnwhite.I


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can'tdothat."Wedevelopedawaytomeasureorganizationaltrustwithouttakingbloodusingasurveyandidentifiedthefactorsneurologicallythatcreatetrust,triedthisoutinabunchofcompanies,runlaboratoryexperimentsandbasicallyfoundawaytoquantifycultureandcreateconstantimprovementsinculturebymeasuringintervening,bygivingastructureunderstandwhatkindofculturesarereallyeffectivefromtheorganization'sperspective,fromtheemployees’perspective,nowcomingtoworkisfunbecauseI'mgettingchallengedandrecognized,I'mgrowing.That'sgreat.

Actuallywe'veshownthathightrustculturesimprovesocietiesaswell.Thetriplebottom-line,howaboutthat?

Dave: MyfirstthoughthereishowdoIsignup,BulletproofittogetintothisbecauseI'minthemiddleofculturebuilding.MybiggestchallengerightnowismaintainingincrediblyhighstandardsandlevelofintegritythatIexpectofmyselfandthatIbuildintotheproductsandtoscalethatasthecompanykeepsgrowingtomakesurethatwhenpeoplecomeinthattheyhavethatlevelofauthenticityandintegrityandtrust.TheT-wordthereyouaretalkingaboutsothatwhenyouhandajoboff,youknowthattheyarenotgoingtoletcustomersdown.Wehavea,inmymindadegreeoffiduciaryresponsibilityforthemsoifwebringsomeonein,weextendtrustandtheyhaven'tearnedthattrustortheyaren'ttrustworthyandtheydosomethingthatIdon'tknowaboutthatdoesn'tserveourcustomerstotheverybestextentaspossible,likethereisaviolationthathappensthere.Youaresayingyoucanquantifythatinawayandhopetopredictit.

Paul: Myviewoftrustisastrategicassetinanorganization.Somehowwethinknaturallywearegoingtogetsomekindofniceculture.Peoplecreateculture.Cultureisnotasetofrulesornormsthatpeoplecreateandpeoplewillcreatethatwherevertheyare.Ithappensnaturally.ThebookactuallystartswithmeinPapua,NewGuinea.Wemayhavetalkedaboutthisatdinner.IseearandomexperimentinarainforestinNewGuinea.LikethisstartwithusdonateandwhatIlearned,besidesthecooldatawasIembeddedmyselfintheirculture.Allofasudden,thereisthischiefwithafifth-gradeeducation,he'stellingmewhattodoandIdoitbecauseIliveinhisorganizationnow.AtleastforaweekIdid.

Weareverygoodorganizationmenandwomen.Weknowhowtodothat.Ifcultureisastrategicasset,we'vegottomeasureitandmanageit.Ifyoudon'tmanageyourculture,yourculturewillmanageyou.WhenwegetoffthelineI'llsendyoualinkyouaregoingtousetosurveywithyouremployeesandyoucangetasnapshotofwhereismyculturenow.Itwilltellyouwheretointervenetoimprovethings.Wearemicrolearningmodulesoyoucangoinanddotheseinterventionsandchangehabitsandwebuildthisrelationshipbetweenthepeopleatyourwork.Icallthiscreatingthe3amemployee.Youtoldmeyouareupallnighteditingyourbook.WhatIloveisthatwhenIwakeupat5:30,Icheckmyemailoccasionally,justoccasionallyIgetanemailat3amfromsomeonewhoworksformeandtheygo,"Holycrap.Youknowthisthingthatwe'vebeenstrugglingwithfor3months,Ijustfigureditout."

Theyvoluntarily,outsideofworktime,stayedupuntil3inthemorning,workingonsomethingbecausetheylovedit.Becauseitwasimportanttotheteam.Youcan'tpaysomeoneenoughtodothat.Youhavetoreallybeengagedwiththisteamandthispurpose.Whyarewedoingthis?


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Howareweimprovingtheworld?Howarewemakingadentintheuniverse?

Dave: Verywellsaid.I'msuperexcitedaboutthatandifthereisalinkthatwecansharewitheveryonelisteningandthereisagoodchanceamillionpeoplewilleventuallyhearthisepisode,soifthereisawaypeoplecansignupforsomethinglikethat,I'dlovetoshareitwiththembecauseIjustwantedafewbigentrepreneurswholistentotheshowandprobably100,000smalleroneswhoarejustgettingtothepointwherecultureisgoingtomatterforthem.

Paul: Yeah,thelinkisofactor.com.OFACTOR.com.Lotsofinformation,freestuff,signupforthisandthat.WhenIstarteddoingthis...Youknowwhenyoustartanewproject,youalwayswanttomakesureyouarenotdilutingyourselfbecausewecanconvinceourselvesthatwearebrilliant.Wesitintheofficefor2hoursor2weeks.Ispentalotoftimeembeddedincompaniesandtalkedtotheseentrepreneurs,talkedtopresidents,askedthemwhattheirproblemswereandIrememberinterviewinganentrepreneurwhohadstarted27companies.Isaid,"Allthose27,howmuchdidyouthinkaboutculture?Inhalfofthem?"Hesaid,"Zero."Ithoughabouthiringtherightpeople,generatingprofit,whomythunderswere.Whomycustomeris,Ineverthoughtaboutit.Isaidthatsomeofthosecompanieshavesuckycultures,yeah.

Dave: Icanimagine.I'vebeeninsomeveryhighgrowthsiliconvalleycompanieslikeemployee300to5000in2years.Myorganization,Iwasaco-founder,I'vegrewto1500peoplein2years.Culturebreakswhenyoudothatandit'soneofthethingsIthinkandmostaboutBulletproofsowecankeepgrowingandstilldotherightthingallthetime.I'mshocked,butanyonecanstartthatmanycompanieswithoutthinkingaboutculture.

Paul: He'sverysuccessfulsoobviouslyheknowswhathe'sdoing,butthereisamarginthereandparticularlyforthecomingworkfortalent,youknowthis,manIwanttogetthebestpeopleandkeepthebestpeopleandcultureisawaythatyoucandothat.Fromsiliconevalleyexperiencethatit'snotjustperksandfreefood,it'sreallybuildingtheserelationshipslikeinGoogle.It'snotaboutthefoodnecessarily,apartofitissavingtime,apartofitisbiglongtablesandyousitnexttoabunchofengineers,younevermettheseguysbefore,youstarthavingaconversation.Interestingthingsoccasionallyhappenandthat'sreallyimportant.

Dave: Whathappenswithdistributedteams?I'mrunningintothatalotnow,whenteamsareallovertheplace.SomeofthemareatourheadquartersinSeattleandtherestofthemareallover,whatdoesSkypeandvideoconferencingdotooxytocinanddototrustingcompaniesandthingslikethat?What'syourtakeonthatasaguyhastohavestudiedthat.

Paul: Greatsciencequestion.We'veactuallyrunexperimentswherewe'velookedatin-personcommunicationcomparedtosayvideo,Skypelikewearedoingnow,text,itturnsoutthatwearesuchsocialcreaturesthatwhateverkindofcommunicationwehavestimulatesthereleaseofoxytocin.Includingtweeting.Whenyoutweetout,you'vegotpeepsoutthere.IfeltlikeIhaven'ttweetedin2days,Ohmygosh,mypeopleneedme.Ourbrainprocessesoxytocin,wefeelconnected.Havingsaidthat,fromresearchoutsidemylab,asyouknow,goingtoSeattle,seeingthepeopleinperson,onceaquarteratleast,it'sreallyimportantforsomereason.Forthepeoplewhoworkwithme,Ilovethedailyhuddle.Idon'tknowaboutyou.The10minutesstandup,whatdoyouwanttodotoday,how'sthegoing,whathappenedyesterday,whathelp


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doyouneedfromme?

ThatreallykeepspeopleontargetandyoucancertainlydothatviaSkypeaswell.Thebasicpunchlineis,thehigherthebettermentofthecommunication,thebiggertheconnectionfromaneurologicperspective.Inperson,great,Skype,notquiteasgood.Text,notnearlyasgood.

Dave: Okay.That'swaycool.Everyonelistening,thatmatters.Openupyourvideoinsteadofjusttalkingonthephoneorsendingatextandifyouareoneofthosepeoplewhobasicallydreamsandtextmessagesyoumightwanttostartdreamingonvideoconferencing,it'sbetter.

Paul: Therewego.Travel,youstillhavetotravel.AlotofpeoplemakethatmistakethatIcangrowmysocialmediaempire.I'mlike,"No."ThewayBulletproofhasgrownisI'vespent100plusdaysayearontheroadconnectingwithpeopleinpersonbecausethat'sthewayyoumakeconnections.

Dave: Youstudiedsomethingcalledneuro-economicswhichIthinkmostpeoplelisteningtothisprobablydon'tevenknowwhatthatis.Iwantedalittlebitofyourbackgroundstorybecause...Idon'tknowhowtoputthisinadifferentway,butyouareaweirdguy.

Paul: Yeah.Totally.

Dave: That'sacomplementcomingfromme.

Paul: Youareweirdlikeme.

Dave: Totally.You'vestudiedprettyadvancedmathandeconomicsandthenyou'vecutovertoneuro-imagingandneuro-science,why?Wereyoudroppedontheheadasachild?Notreally,butwhatmotivatedthisbecauseit'sfascinatingandweighcool,butwhatmadeyoudothat?

Paul: Whatthehell!Acoupleofthings.FirstofallIhave3sistersandnobrothersandIhadafatherwhoisanengineer.I'veactuallyspentmostofmychildhood,mydadandIareinthegaragebuildingstuff.That'sjustnaturalformetobuildthings,butmyparentshadnomoneysoIwasputtingmyselfthroughcollegeandIhaveaniceadvisorwhothoughtmaybeIshouldthinkaboutgraduateschool,buthereisthemathclassesI'vegottotaketogetpreparedforeconomicsandyouhavetodoanotherfieldineconomics,sorry,maths,whichwasIdidn'tfailinbiologybecauseIloveneuro-science,tookabunchofneuro-scienceclasses.Istarteddoingresearchinbiologyandneuro-scienceasanundergraduatebecauseIwaspoor.Therewasresearchmoney.Professorshadgrantsandtheywouldhiremetodoresearchandrunsimulationsandbuildandwhatever.

Fromtheverybeginningjustoutofsheerpovertyandmaybecuriosity,Iwasinterestedinthis.TheirPhDineconomics,verytraditionalschool,UniversityofPennsylvaniaandthenlostmyadvisors.AllofasuddenIwentfrombeingthebioboyto“whothehellareyou?”Ididn'tknowwhattodo,soIwentbackandstartedtakingmoreclassesinthebiodepartmentandnooneknewwhatIwasdoingandnoonetoldmeitwasastupidthingtodoandthenhelpedstartthisfieldcalledneuro-economics.BecauseI'mreallyinterestedinwhatthehumansaredoingandI


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loveeconomics,buttheunderlyingassumptionsofeconomicsareinsanefromamodelingperspective.Infiniteknowledge,infinitebraincapacity,infiniteamountoftime,whatworldisthat?

TomeI'mnotinterestedinwhatIcallimaginaryeconomics,I'minterestedinsolvingproblems.IfoundthatbyusingfindingsinscienceIunderstandhowpeoplemakedecisionswhichiswhateconomicsisabout.Icouldbeamoreeffective,scientist,scholar,orproblemsolver.Ithink.Ihope.

Dave: Youareremindingmein2002,IwasgettingmyMBAatWharton,buttheyflewtheprofessorsfromPennsylvaniaouttoSanFrancisco,soIdidn'thavetoactuallycommute,itwouldhavebeenalongcommute.Iwasdoingthebusiness,grad,whatever,statisticsclass.Iwantedtodowhatwhatwouldnowbecalledneuro-marketingbecauseIhadanEEGmachine,Ialreadyhaditfor5yearsandIwantedtoseewhatwillourbrainsdowhenwearelookingatadsandthenjust...I'veseenarandomdatasourcetodoco-relationanalysisforitandnooneinmystudygroupseemedtohaveanycluetowhatIwastalkingaboutandjustdidn'twanttodoit.Iwaslike,"Oh,thisissocool."Itturnsoutitwouldhavebeenoneofthefirstneuro-marketingpapersouttherebecauseitdidn'thaveaname,butyoutookitupaleveltoneuro-economicstogetridofalltheweirdassumptionsthataremadefrom100yearoldeconomicsandAdamSmithandallthatstuff,liketheoriesofrationalactorseventhoughwearenotrationalcreatures.Howdidoxytocintieonallofthat?

Howdidyougetfromtheeconomicsideofthingintooxytocin?That'sstillnotclearinmymind.

Paul: Iwishitwasagreatstory.No,Iwasworkingonacoupleofprojects.Oneontrustacrosscountries.Iwasinbiologyunderlyingtheeconomicdecision.Thatactuallyismoreexplanatorythaneitherofthosefieldsaloneandsowestartedbuildingthesemodelsandithadanimpactandworldbankflewmeout.AtthesametimeIwasworkingonotherfactorsthatIthoughteconomicsandbiologycouldinformuson,likehowmuchdoweinvestinourchildrenandwhatwecallhumancapital,wheredoesthatcomefrom?Howmuchisthatgenetic,howmuchisenvironmental?Goingtoaconference,withawellknownanthropologistnamedHelenFischer,who'swrittenanumberofbooks,AnatomyofLoveIthinkit'sherbestknownbookandIwastalkingtoheraboutmywork.

UpintheSierrasforthesummer,thereisabunchofmountainbikersandthen2peopleinbusinesscasualclothes.Youaredefinitelygoingtoyourconference.Blahblahblah,shesaid,"Haveyoueverheardofoxytocin?"Isaid,"Noidea."Shesaid,"Tellmeaboutit."Igobacktomyhotelroomandliterallymisseddinner.I'mlikegoingonpubmedI'mlike,"Holycrap.ThisisthesignalI'vebeenlookingfortounderstandwhyItrustDave,butIdon'ttrustyourengineerBobwho'sasketchyguy."Icanjusttell.Ourbrainshavetohavesomesignalsthattellsuswhenit'ssafetointeract,whenit'snot,whenIexpectyoutobetrustworthywhenit'snot.Lotsofanimalliterature,zerodoneinhumansforavarietyofreasons.Thereisnomedicalreasonthattakespre-termlabortothinkaboutoxytocin,therearenodisorders.

Itwasjustsittingthereontheshelf,thereisnowaytomeasureitacutelyandIhadtoworkoutaprotocoltodothat,butonceyouhavethatmeasurementtool,youcanreallygototown.


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Dave: Whenyouwenttotown,yourevealitasatrusthormoneorthemoralmolecule,whydoyou

calloxytocinthemoralmolecule?

Paul: Greatquestion.Whatwefoundisthat,justlikeinanimals,humanswhentheyencounteranothermemberoftheirspeciesoractuallyotherspecieslikedogsandcatsdo,butanyway,IinteractwithanotherhumanandI'mgettingsignalsfromyouunconsciouslythatsayDave'stotallysafe.Mybrainproducesoxytocin,thatmotivatesmetointeractwithyou.ThebenefitofinteractingiswemightbecomefriendsordoaprojecttogetherorhangoutorwhateverorthecostisyoumightkillmeorIdon'tknow.Punchmeorsomething.Weareconstantlybalancingthisandoxytocinmovesustowards,heyinteract,itcouldbevaluefromthatwhileatthesametimethatfearsystemsays,"Hey,bealittlecareful."WhenIgetapositiveinteractionfromyou,mybraincreatesoxytocin,itincreasesmysenseofempathy.NowI'mmoremotivatedtointeractwithyou,I'mmoreemotionallyconnectedtohowyouarefeelingwhichmakesmeamuchmoreeffectivesocialcreature.NotonlycanIforecastwhatyoumightdocognitively,butnowI'mstartingtosharesomeofyouremotions,sonowIgetasenseofyourfeelingstates.

WhenIdothat,itturnsoutI'mgoingtotreatyoubetter.Iammuchlesslikelytotreatyoubadly.I'mmoreconcernedaboutyourwelfareandtangibleways.We'verunhundredsofexperimentsmeasuringoxytocinandactuallyasyouknow,manipulatingitpharmacologicallysoIcanshootintopeople'sbrainsandwecanturnonthesepositivebehaviorsliketurningonagardenhose.

Dave: Iactuallytriedthat.Justprobably4or5yearsago,Iwastestingabout50%lowonoxytocinanddon'taskmetorememberwhatlabthiscamefrom,thisis5yearsagoorso.Allright,Itriedsub-lingualoxytocinrelativelylowdose,butIdiditforabout60days.Ididn'tfeelathing,butIknowotherpeoplehavedoneoxytocinnasalsprayandtheyarelike,"OhmyGod"itchangedmylife."Whythedifferenceinoxytocinresponsivenessbetweenindividualpeopleandwhatshouldyoufeellikeifyoutookabighitof...Ifyousnortedalineofoxytocintocreateabadanalogythere...

Paul: Yeah,wedevelopedthefirstoxytocininhalerforresearchuse.Therewasonethatwasaroundtohelpwomenstartpre-termlabor,butweoptimizedbasicallythatimpactandinthose...Youwanttogetthisstuffintothebrain.That'swherethereceptorsareprimarilyandthenoseisaportaltothebrainasyouknowbecauseoftheimmunesystem,thebloodbrainbarrierisalittlelooserthere.Thegutwillbreakdownoxytocintoverysimplemolecule,soonceitgetsintothegutit'sgone,it'sjustbrokendown,itdoesn'tgetintothebrain.It'sgottogothroughthenose.YoucangetalittleintothebrainIV,butIdon'tthinkyouwanttobestickingneedlesinyourveins.

Dave: I’mokaywiththat.

Paul: That'sanotherconversation.ItestedprobablymorepeopleonOxytocinanybodyintheUnitedStatesandwe'veneverhadoneadverseeffect,notummyache,noheadache.Why?Becauseyourbrainmakesthisanyway.Weareactuallysledgehammeringyouwiththedosebecausewewanttostudyyouexperimentally.Nowarealfact,alittlebitofrelaxation,peopletendtoyawn


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alittlemore.Thereceptorsforoxytocinneartheyawnareainthebrainstem,butbasicallyyoukindofmoldoverotherdividewhereallofasudden,areyoumyfriendDave,areyoumybrotherDave?Givemeoxytocin,youarelikemybrother.Like,"Ah,Iknowyou.Youareagoodguy."Thereisnohighassociatedwithit,justassumesasenseofrelaxation.Interestingsideeffectsifimaysharethosewithyou.

About20%ofmenwegiveoxytocinto...Backstory,NatureisRepublican,youareawareofthis,right?ProbablyisnotvotingforDonaldTrump,Idon'tthink,butnatureisconservativebecauseitusesthesystemsthathaveonepurposeforotherpurposes.Oxytocinoriginallyevolvedinthemammalstofacilitatelivebirthandcareforoffspring.Howdoyoucreatelivebirth?Peoplehavetohavesex.Thereceptorsforoxytocininthevaginainthepenis,it'sreleasedinloadswhenyouhaveanorgasm.

Dave: Didyoureallyjustsaythat?

Paul: Sorry!It'suseofwords.

Dave: Keepgoing.

Paul: It'splentifulinthebrain.Peopleareenjoyingeachother...

Dave: ThatwillbetweetedmanytimesPaul.

Paul: OhmyGod!Sorry.LittleFreudianslip.About20%ofmenwegiveoxytocinto,willgeterections.

Dave: Really!

Paul: Yeah.Becauseinsteadofallofitgoingtothebrain,someofitgoesintotheperipheralbloodanditwillbindtoareceptor,soIalwaystelltheresearchassistant,wearedoingtheexperimentsyoudon'twanttoknowwhat'sgoingondownthere.

Dave: Tellthemtowearshortskirtsandseewhathappens.I'vegotit.

Paul: Somewomencanlactatewhenwegivethem...Itfacilitatesmilkflow,It'sprettyrare,butyoujusthavetohavehighenoughestrogenlevels.Allthesethingsare...

Dave: Ihadnoideathesewerescientificfacts.Ididn'texperienceeitherofthosefortunatelyfrom,notfromoxytocin,butokay,whatwouldhappenifwewenttoaprisonenvironmentandweofferednasaloxytocintoeveryoneelse.I'mthinkingofanenvironmentwherethereislotsoftraumaandlotsofunhappiness.Whatwouldhappenotherthanerections?

Paul: Westudiedthat.Welookedatthedevelopmentaleffects.Again,inthisifyouwillRepublicanbrain,mylittlejoke.Ifyouarenotinanimals,ifyouarenotgettingenoughnurturingthenthereceptorsforoxytocinatrophybecauseyoudon'tneedthatnurturingsystem,youarenotgettingcaredfor.Wetestedthatinwomenwhoaschildrenwhowereseverelysexuallyabusedandindeedabouthalfofthemdon'thaveanintactoxytocininexcesssystemandtheyallhave


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atthesametimePTSDbasically...

Yeah,dysfunctionalsocialrelationships,depression,alotofborderlinepersonalities.Lastsummer,wespentacoupleofweeksatatreatmentfacilityinWisconsinforcriminalpsychopaths.Westimulateoxytocinwithalittlevideothatwillstimulatethebraintomakeoxytocinandtookbloodtwicefrom161oftheseguysandwhatwefoundisnooxytocinreleaseonthestimulusthat90%ofpopulation,itwillspikeyouroxytocin.

Dave: Fromavideo?

Paul: Yeah,fromavideo.Wecantalkaboutthatinasecond,butwhatdopsychopathslack?Classically,empathy.I'mapsychopath,Icantreatyoulikeameanstoanend.IcantakeyourmoneyorIcantakeyourdrugsorwhateverIwantbecauseIdon'tfeelanythingforyou,butifyouorIdidthattoeachotherwe'llfeellike,"OhmyGod!ItreatedDavesobadlyIfeelawful."Theydon'tgetthat,sotheydon'thavethatinternalmoralcompassthatwedowhichseemstobedrivenbythis,whatAdamSmithcalledfellowfeelingorempathy.

Dave: Thisissofascinating.I'mamazedthatyouwentandyoudidthisstudyonpsychopaths.Whatafascinatingquartercase?NowIunderstandwhyit'scalledthemoralmoleculeforsure.Howdoesitaffectmyindividualdecisionmaking?IfI'monoxytocinorIjustnaturallyhavehigherlevelsorI'vebeenhuggingalotofpeopleorIjusthadsexwhatever.Whatisthatgoingtodotomeovertheshortterm,overtherestoftheday,overtherestoftheweek,howdoesitchangeme?

Paul: Greatquestion.Thesecondaryquestion,thefollowupquestioniswhydon'twejustdrugeverybodywithoxytocin?

Dave: Iwasgoingthere.Takefluorideoutofthewater,putinoxytocininandwe'llallbegood.

Paul: Yourbrain'sproductionofoxytocinstaysactiveforabout20minutes,20,25minutes.Iliketosay,hugsnotdrugs,Idon'twanttodrugpeople.Istimulateoxytocininsomebodyandforthenext20minutes,you'venarrowedthatdividebetweenyourselfandothersandit'sinteresting.It'safairlybluntinstrument.We'vedonestudieswhereapositiveinteractionwithonepersonortheywatchavideocausesyourbraintomakeoxytocin.Wemeasurethatsamechangeinbloodandalsonowyouarenicertootherpeoplewhoaren'teveninvolvedinyou.Wedidstudieswithmassagetherapists.Wehelppeoplegetmassagesbyprofessionalmassagetherapistsandthentheyinteractwithacompletestrangerwhodidn'tgivethemamassageandweusedmoneyalotoftimestoquantifyhowmuchyoucareaboutsomebodyelse.

Theyareshowingmoneyeasily.Theyknowwhattheyaredoing.Theyarecognitivelytheretheyjustdon'tcareasmuch.Justlikeyoumeltwiththatselfotherdivide.

Dave: Howlongisthevideo?

Paul: Thevideois100seconds.


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Dave: CanIplaythisattheBulletproofconference?

Paul: Sure.

Dave: That'ssocool.Allright.

Paul: Peoplewillcrythough.

Dave: It'sgood.That'sperfect.OhmyGod!That'samazing.Wearesogoingtogiveeveryoneahitofoxytocin,3000peopleallintheroomatthesametime.ThatisamazingPaul.AfterwardsI'llhookupwithyouonthis.

Paul: Afterwardswe'lldothat

Dave: Yeah.

Paul: I'vestoppedbylargeshowingthatvideoinconferencesandIwilltellyouwhy.YouareinLArightnowisthatright?

Dave: TheconferenceisinLA,I'matmyfarmonVancouverIslandwhereIlive.

Paul: I'vegottocomevisityouthere.

Dave: Anytime,yeah.Thereisthisalllabhereforhacking.

Paul: OhmyGod!Okay.Wearegoingtodothat.We'lldoitsometimethisyear.IshoweditatalawconferenceinUCLAandseverallawyerswhowatchedthevideoactuallycriedandyouareaware...

Dave: I'msorry,Ididn'tthinktheycouldcry,whattheheck?Okay.

Paul: I'vegonetoofar.Ihavetostop.Atleastsomelawyersactuallyhaveoxytocin,howaboutthat?It'sreallyeffective.It'salittlevideoaboutafatherandhis2yearoldsonandthesonisterminalbraincancerandtheson'sbeentreated.We'vegotitwithpermissionfromSaintJudechildren'shospital.Thesearenotactors,theyarerealpeople,thelittleboy'snameisBenandhe'sactuallynowdied.Thefatherissomovedbythesituationtheson'sin,buthehasacrisis.Iwon'tgiveawaythatwholething,butithasahero'sjourney;aclassicalstorystructureandsomethingveryheroichappensinthisvideo.Anyway,in100seconds,ifyouarenotsuperstressedoutorjustnotpayingattention,thisisgoingtograbyoubytheheartstringsandforparentsit'sterrible.

Ishowedittomyclassaboutayearago.I'veseenthisvideo150timesatleast.Westudieditusingeverymethodpossiblefromblooddraws,wehaveMRI,youhavenoidea.We'veuseditinpsychiatricpopulationsandit'sreallyaveryconsistent...Themostconsistentoxytocinstimulusthatweshareditmanypeople,manyscientists.Anyway,IgavemyclassandallofasuddenI'mtearingup.Idon'tknow,maybeIwastiredorIwasmissingmykidsorsomethingandI'mlike,"Okay,we'vegottotakea10minutebreak."It'sprettypowerful.


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Dave: Wow!Whatpercentageofpeoplegetanoxytocinraisefromit?

Paul: Wefoundabout90%ofthepeoplewillgetanincreaseinoxytocin.

Dave: Thisissocool.Wearegoingtohack90%oftheaudienceattheBulletproofconferenceallat

onceinthefirst10minutesoftheconference.That'scool.

Paul: Youaregoingtotellmewhathappensforsure,takeavideo.

Dave: Therewillbeavideo.AbsolutelyI'llshareitwithyouPaul.I'mgratefulthatyouaregoingtoletmeusethevideo.Thisisgoingtobesofun.DidImentionBulletproofconference.com?Allright,ifyouweren'tgoingtogo,nowyouaregoingto.

Paul: I'mcoming.I'llcomeforthefirstdayatleast.

Dave: You'vegotapassPaul,noproblem.Anytime.

Paul: I'mthere.

Dave: Whereareyoubasedrightnow?

Paul: I'moutsideofLA,soI'min...

Dave: WeareinPasadena,soit'sjustaquickdriveforyou.

Paul: Yeah,easy.

Dave: That'ssocool.Allright.Wetalkedaboutindividualdecisionmaking,wearetalkingabouthowwecanhackmyoxytocin.I'mgoingtobemoreinthezone.Let'ssaythatItakemyseniorexecutiveteamofBulletproofandIsiteveryonedown,mynext2hourAllHands,mynext2hourcall,Iplaythevideoatthebeginning.Isay,"Allrightguys.Wearegoingtowatchthistogether.Howisitgoingtochangeourgroupdecisionmakingafterwewatchit?"

Paul: I'mgoingtodisagreewiththepremiseofthequestionI'msorry.Youcoulddothatandfor20minutespeoplewillprobablybealittlenicertoeachother,theymightbemoreopentosharing.Thereasonwestarteddoingtheworkonorganizationaltrustisbecauseyoucan'tshowupanemotionalvideoeveryweek.Firstoff,rightawayyoucan'ttakealittleballofcancerkidandwalkhimaroundyouroffice,Imean,it'sjustnotappropriate,right?

Dave: OfcourseIhearyou.

Paul: Westartedthinkingabout,IliedtoyouI'mahacker,sohowdoIhackthisbrainsystemsothatpeopleatworkaremoreeffective.Fromtheneuro-scienceexperimentswerunandfromlotsofotherpeople,weputtogetheraframeworksothatatfirstwecanmeasuretrustandit's8constituentfactorsandthatforeachofthosefactorstherearelotsofinterventionswe've


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identified.MostofthepeoplehavetriedandIreadagazillionbooksandIstolefromsomewhere.That'sgoingtojuicethissystem,soletmegiveyouaconcreteexample,the8factorssomehowmagicallyDavespelloutoxytocin.Idon'tknowhowthathappens...

Dave: Randomness.

Paul: Justagoodluckoflife.ThefirstOisforovation,that'sourwordforrecognizingpeoplewhomeetorexceedtheirgoals.Okay,that'snotnotnew,that'sjustrecognition.IwilllearnthatthefirstdayattheWhartonMBAexcepttheneuroscientistgivesyouspecificandactionablewaystogetthebiggestbankorthebankonthebrainandallbehavior.Ovationthatiscloserintimeforthegoalsbeingmet.Thatisunexpected,thatispublic.Thatistangible.Thatispersonal.Allthatputsabiggereffectonthebrainbothonoxytocinandthedopaminesystemandnowyouaresettingupadesiretoberewardedagaininthefuture.Youarelayingdownpathwaysthatsay,"Anorganizationwherewehittheballoutofthepark,it'sawesome."HowdoIreinforcethat?Wearegoingtodosomethingthataddsup.Wearegoingtogotandemsky-divingwithmyteamthisweekbecausewejustfinishedthisawesome3-monthproject.

Itwaslike,"Holycrap,wecan'tdothat."Wearegoingtodoitasateam.Iactuallytookmyclasstandemsky-divingoneyear.Crazy.Allcertainpeoplearetogether.Likeallbrainsystems,thisstupid,lazyRepublicanbrainthatwe'vegotevolvedin,thereisnoreasontomakeoxytocinlestIhadamoderatestressorthatmotivatesmetoworktogetherasateam,soasateamleaderyouneedtosetexpectationsthataredifficult,butachievable,thatbringstheteamtogetherandthenwhentheyreachthoseexpectations,whenyouhitthegoal,andnowtakeadayoffcelebrate,baskinhowgreatthisisandthenresetandacoupleofdayslaterrestart.It'sreallythis...It'slikeworkingout.I'mgoingtopushyouhard.WhenyougetthereI'mlike,"Yeah,great.Let'sgocelebrate."Thenrecoverytimeandthenworkingoutagain.

Dave: ThatwastheOinoxytocin.TheXisexpectation.Whatdoesexpectationdo?

Paul: It'sreallygivingyourbrainanopportunitytomakeoxytocinasateam.It'ssettingthesegoalsthatareconcrete,difficult,andachievable.Asyouknow,stressisnotabadthing.Chronicstressisbad,butchallengestresswhereIhavetimelimitedgoals,IknowwhenI'mdone,yourbrainlovesthat.That'standemsky-diving.Actuallythat's...It'sanysportyoudo.Settingupgoalsthatworksothattheyarehard,butachievable,notalways,sometimesyouwanttohavetheseegos,that'sokay.Sometimesitgetsthisstuffdone,butsettingupchallengesforindividualsandthengivingthemlotsoffeedbackonthosechallenges,soit'sreallyseeingtheleaderasacoach,asamentor,asaproblemsolver,asopposedtoasadictator.Ireallywanttoempowereveryoneontheteamtobeadecisionmaker,toinnovate,tomakemistakes.

Ilovethe...Wedoamonthly“Congratulations,youscrewedup!”celebration.Whatwasyourbiggestscrewupthismonth?Yeah,let'stalkaboutthatbecauseifyouarenotscrewingup,youarenottryinghardenough.I'mlovingthescrewup.It'sgreat.It'sthatkindofthing.WewantyoutoinnovateandIwanttousetheknowledgeofacrowdtogetthebestimprovementinprocesses.JustbecauseIsitinthechairinthecorneroffice,doesn'tmeanIhaveanymoreknowledgeaboutanythingthanyouguyswhoaredoingthisstuffeverydayandnotthinkingaboutfinancesandthenextcustomerandgrowthandrunningaradioshowandallthiskindof


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thing.Ireallywanttoempowerallthatonthegroundknowledgesothatwearereallyeffectiveatwhatwearedoing.

Dave: Settingexpectationsisreallyimportant.OneofthethingsthatnewemployeesalwaysfindatBulletproof,they'llcomeinandsay,"Whatshouldwedo?"I'mlike,"Hereisthedeal.I'mtheCEO.Ihaven'tstudiedtheproblem.You'vestudiedtheproblem,sowhyshouldIdecidewhattodo?"Ihavethismantra,it'slikewhatdoyouthink?Prettymuchanytimeyouaskmeaquestion,andyouhaven'talreadydonethethinkingyourself,I'mjustgonnaaskwhatdoyouthink?ThenIdon'thavetodothethinkingbecauseactuallyI'mpayingotherpeopletodothethinkingandthat'stheexpectationthatI'msetting.Thenwecantalkaboutitoncetheysaywhattheythink.Idon'tknow,wecoulddoAorB,IthinkAistherightanswerforthesereasons,great.

I'mprobablygoingtoagreewithyouorI'llsay,"No,youdon'tknowabouttheseotherreasons,let'sdoB,"butifit'spresented,Idon'tknowwhatweshoulddoAorB,mostpeople,Ithinkwillgenerallypickoneoraskforalltheinformationtheyneedtomakethedecision,butI'mactivelyrepellingdecisionmakingunlessI'mtheonlyonewhocanmakeit.That'spartoftheexpectationIsetformyteam.IsthateffectiveoramIdrivingdownoxytocinunwillingly.

Paul: No.It'sveryeffectiveinacoupleofdifferentways.Youareempoweringotherpeoplewhichisshowingthemtrust.Youaredrivingtheiroxytocinupandyouarealsonotinducingthechronicstressofasaleaderofbehavinglikeadictatorandforcingknowledgedowntopeopleasopposedtoyouhavemorethanonepersonthatworksforyou.Whynottakeallthatknowledgeandletitfilteruptoyou.Ithinkthat'stheimportantpart.Hacksaswetalkabouthacks,thelastNintheoxytocinacronymisfornaturalandthisisabouthowyouleadanorganizationbecauseyouareanaturalleader.Partofthatis,notonlyempoweringthepeoplearoundyou,butbeingvulnerable.Whenyousaid,Idon'tknowwhat'sfast,youfigureditout.Youaresaying,"Look,Ican,I’mnotinthecorneroffice.ActuallyIdon'tevenhaveanoffice.Igotridoftheoffice.Iwanttomove.Iwanttobeconstantlyateveryone'ssteps."

I'monthemoveconstantlylikeyouare.IwantyoutoknowthatIdon'tknoweverythingandwhenyoudothatyougo,"Oh,yeah,weareallonthesameteam.Weareallgoingtotrytofigurethisouttogether.Again,youorImayknowsomethingsaboutthebusinessthatsomeoneelsedoesn't,that'sokay,buttheymayknowalotofthingsIdon't."Infact,forsuretheyknowalotofthingsthatIdon't.Let'scombinethatknowledgesetandseewhatthebestdecisionisandalsotakeownershipofthemistake.ThereissomethingapsychologycalledthePratfalleffectofthat.Itturnsoutthatpeoplewhoaretooperfect,toobeautiful,toosmart,wehatethembecausetheyarenotlikeus.Theyarelikefreaks.

IrememberIwasinNewYorkonceacoupleofyearsagoandI'mwalkingup5thAvenueafterameetingandI'mlookingaroundI'mlike,"Holycrap!Thesepeoplearetoobeautiful."6fttallmodel,it'sfashionweek.Ididn'tknow.AllIseeislikemale,femalemodelswhoarethemostgorgeous,geneticanomaliesyou'veeverseenyourlifeandthenI'mlike,"Oh,gosh!NowIhatethem."It'snotfair.Theyareprobablystupid,whoknows?That'sthebadbehavior.

Dave: Shadesofzoolanderrightthere.


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Paul: Anyway,asaleaderifyoumakeamistakeandownthatmistake,apratfall,confidentpeople

actuallylikeyoumore.AnexampleisJohnFKennedyrightaftertheBayofPigsinvasionwhichfailed,hewentontvandsaid“Hereiswhathappened.Igotadvised.Ithoughtitwasagoodidea.Iblewit.Iwasn'taverygoodleaderandIwanttogetbetterandI'dlikeyoursupportsoIcanlearnhowtobeabetterleader.I'llcertainlylearnfromthesemistakes,”andafterthat,hereisaproveofwherethingswentup.BecauseI'mdoingmybest.Ithoughtthisisagoodidea,turnsoutitwasaveryverybadidea.Thatlittlepratfall,thatlittleimperfectionisreallyactuallyattractive.Italsotakesthepressureoffleadersintheworkthatwearedoingwhichisifyouempowerthepeoplearoundyou,youdon'thavetobeademi-god,youdon'thavetoknoweverything.Allyouaredoingismovingthebusinessforward,dothebestyoucan,listenalot,andempowerpeoplearoundyoutomakedecisionsandalsomakemistakesandnothaveblowbackfromit.

Dave: Wecelebratefailure.That'spartoftheBulletproofculture.EvenwhenIputmykidstobedatnightI'mlike,"Sowhatdidyoufailattoday?"They'llfindsomething,like,Idon'tthinkthatwasreallyafailure.Failureissomethingthatyou'vereallyworkedondoingthatjustdidn'thappenthewayyouwanted.Theyscratchtheirlittleheadstryingtofindone.Theideaofbeing,ifyoudidn'tgetoneofthose,itwasn'taverygoodday.Theyfinallyinternalizedthat.I'lltellyouwhentheyare25.

Paul: Samethingwithmykids.Notexactlythemistakething,butIjustrefusetoanswerquestionswiththem.Likewhentheywerelittlethinkingwhyistheskyblue?Howwouldyoufigureitout?Whatexperimentwouldyourun,whatsourcewouldyougoto.Icantellyouandyouwon'trememberit,butifyoudoit,itexperiential.Ithinkthesamethingwillwork.IcouldtellyouhowtodosomethingorIcansay,hereisthetrainingandhereisthisnewtaskcertainlyoutsideyourtraining,giveitashot.Aslongasnooneisgoingtogethurtorinjuredorsomething,Ithinkthat'sagreatwaytolearnandthenitbecomesyour,youownthisthingnow.You'vefiguredout.Theimportantthingisduringovationsistosharethatwiththerestoftheteam.Hereisaconcrete,butstupidexamplefrommylab.Whenwestarted,wedoalotofbloodwork.

Wetakeblood,wedesignasystem.Wehaveadivider,blahblahblah.NowmylabissobigthatI'mnotineveryexperiment.Imaydesignthem,butI'mnotthere.Anyway,Icomebackfromsometripandthebloodroomiscompletelyre-arranged.Weusedtohaveonechairunderadivider,thereis2chairsinadividerandthere's2setsofblooddrawkitsoneachside.Isaid,"Okay,what'shappenedhere?What'sthedeal?"Theyarelike,"Oh,werealizedthatwearewastingalotoftimewhenthepersonwhogottheirblooddraw,thenextpersonsitsinthechair,someonehastopullupthesleeve,theitisreallyslow.Sowehaveapreppersonandtheygochairtochair.”Brilliant!Whydidn'tIthinkofthat?BecausewewereneverdoinghighvolumewhenIsetupthissystem.

Yes,innovate,Iloveit.Wealwaysdothatnow.Itwaslikeforever,Iforgetnowwhenwehadthatidea.Yes,let'snotwastetime.Iwantthatchairtobehot,getthepeopleinandout,drawtheblood...

Dave: Canpeoplesendbloodtoyourlabstogetoxytocintestnoworisitjustforuniversityresearch?


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Paul: That'sagoodquestion.Oxytocinhasthisdoublelifelikemanyotherneuro-chemicals,

serotonin,dopamine.Thereasonthereisnobloodtestforlowserotonininthebrainwhichmayormaynotbeassociatedwithdepression,isbecauseserotoninisthemajorgutneuro-transmitterand99%ofwhat'sinyourbodyisinyourgut.Theygiveyouabloodtest.ForserotoninIcanmeasureit,butI'mgoingtogetwhat'sinyourgut.PeoplewhotakeSSRIsometimeswillgetthingslikediarrheabecauseyouaresplittingupthegutmotility.Oxytocinbindstotheperipheralnervoussystemtothebreasttofacilitatemilkflow,totheuterustocontractduringbirth,that'sthehormonaleffects,butit'smadeinthebrainandinthebrainit'sfunctioningasaneuralmodulator.Thatisitchangestheactivityofnetworksofbraincells.

Baselevelsofoxytocininbloodorunrelatedtolevelsonthebrain.IfIstimulateit,likeusingalittlevideo,ifIstimulatethebraintomakeoxytocin,thechangeinbloodreflectsthechangeinbrain.That'sthesecrettooursuccess,whichistherearebasically2neuro-chemicalsinwhichifyouarestimulated,thechangeinbloodreflectsthechangeinbrainandoxytocinisoneofthosetwo.Wasn'tthataluckycall?Justhappenedtobethisveryancientmolecule.Thebloodtestwouldtellyouonlyaboutwhat'sinyourperipheralnervoussystem.Wedofindthatforpeoplewithpsychiatricdisorders,thattheyhaveahighlydisregulatedoxytocinlevelsduetoreceptorproblems.Youcansometimesseethatinblood.Oftenyoucan'tseeitinblood.

Peoplewhichschizophrenia,socialanxiety,sometimesdepressionwillseedisregulatedoxytocin,infactveryhighlevelsofoxytocinatbaseline.AlwaysneurochemicalsworkonfeedbackloopssoImakesome,itbindstoareceptor,itturnsofftheproduction.Iftheproductionisnotbeingturnedoff,youhaveveryhighlevels.Thereispotentiallyareceptordisruption.TherecouldbeotherfactorsDave,Idon'twanttodiagnosepeoplehere,butanywaywefind...

Thethingthatwedevelopisanoxytocinstimulationtest.Wecanusethe...Whichisaveryeffectivewaytodo...Withinacertainrangeandyouroxytocinsystemisworkingproperly.Ifit'snottheneitheryouarehavingabadday,weshouldre-testortheremaybesomedysfunction.Thesystemisplastic.Wedevelopevenasadults.YoumetmewhenIwasaniceperson,butIusedtobesucha...testosteroneintheopener,suchahightestosterone,onlybythenumbers,Idon'tcarewhatyouthinkkindofpersonandIgotalotdone,butIthinkIdidn'thavereallygoodsocialskillsandI'veworkedveryhardasyouknowtobeabetterconnector,tobemoreemphatic,tobewarmer,andthereisgoodevidenceinanimalsthatasyoubecomemoreengagedwithhumans,particularlythenumberofoxytocinreceptorswillincreaseandyoubecomeamoreemphaticperson.Kidsdoitactually.Ifyouhavelittlekids,aretheseyourfirstkids?

Dave: Theyare6and9,yeah.

Paul: Youknowwhenyou'vehadthatlittle9yearold,wasababythenallofasudden,thingsoutsidethatfamilylifearelessimportant.Ibecameamuchmorepatientpersonwithmykids.Youroxytocinisgettingspikedalot.Yourtestosteronegoesdownwhenyouhavekids.YouarechangingthebalanceinyourlifewhichIthinkis...Formeninparticularit'sactuallyveryimportant.Causeourtestosteronearesothroughtheroofhigh.Wecanbeassholes,let'sbe


19

honest.

Dave: IdefinitelyusedtobeaprettybigjerkandIdefinitelydidn'thaveaneasytimewithsocialconnectednesseither.SomerecentstudyIjustpostedonFacebooktalkingaboutchangesingeneticexpressionsfromfeelingsofloneliness.Exceptthatweneverknewthat,butwow,theinflammationhappenswhenyouarefeelinglonely.Whowouldhaveexpectedthat?

Paul: Ithinkwecan...Ilovethatyourwholegoalinlifeistobeabio-hacker.Maybenotyourwholegoallife,butweknowoneofyourbigfocuses.Itriedtodothesamethingatleastwiththissystem.Wecanthoughtfullysay,Ineedtobuildbetterrelationships,Ineedtoinvesttimeinthoserelationships.IknowyouarecertainlydoingandI'mtryinghardandI'msureitwillpayoff.Iwentfrombeingajockto...Ihavewaytoomuchenergyfornormalhumansandanyway,to,Iturned50recently,Ihad4peoplethrowmesurprisebirthdayparties.Whoknew?Ithinkthat'sasignthatI'mjustgettingbetteratthoserelationships,soyeah,thatcouldbeagoal.

Dave: IhavehadonesurprisebirthdaypartywhenIturned40anditcompletelyblewmeaway.IhadneverexpectedorhadanythinglikethatbecauseI'veneverbeen...IjusthaveAsperger’ssyndromelevelofconnectionissues.Hugedifferencetohavethatkindof...It'sprettyamazing.Whataboutoxytocinandlight?Youcanturnonneuro-transmitters.I'duselowlevellighttherapyonmybraintoturnonallsortsofinterestingthings.Thecoloroflightweareexposedto,sunshine,ultravioletlight,infraredlight,differentcolors.Ihave...Justgoingback,10yearsagoIgotthissetoflensesthatchangeyourtransmitter,yourneuro-transmitterlevelsbasedonlavenderandyellowanddifferentcolors,haveyoulookedintoanyofthat?

Paul: Ihaven'tandIdon'tevenknowthisliterature.Iwouldlovetodosometests.Ithinkofflinewecouldhypothesizealittlebitandit'ssomethingtodo.Hereisthebigtechnologicalbreakthroughiswenowhavedevelopedatechnologytomeasureoxytocinbindinginthevagusnerveintheheartusingwirelesssensors.NowIdon'tneedtostickaneedleintoyouanymoreandsothetestingforoxytocinandit'simpactsismuchfaster,cheaper,andactuallymuchhigherfrequency.IcanmeasureathousandtimesofasecondusingthemedicalgradesensorswehavesoIcanreallygetveryrichinformation,secondbysecondonhowyourespondingtoastimuliandwedoalotofworkintomarketingrightnowbecauseofthis,soIcandiagnosethatcommunicationoranadandsay,hereiswhereyougrabthememotionally.Theycan'teventellyouthat,butinsecond13,whenthelittleboyshowsup,that'swhenyoustartgettingemotionallyengagedinthesadandthat'swhyyoucapturepeople'sheartsandminds.

Dave: Wow!I'mworkingonthenew40YearsofZenprogram.Thisisaneuro-feedbackbased5daysuperintense,likeupgradeeverysystemyoucan.Ispent10weeksofmylifewithelectronsgluedtomyhead.Likejustdevelopingself-awarenessandit'schangedwhoIamandwhatI'mcapableofandI'vedoneitwithhigh-endclientsforawhile.Wearedoingasecondrevoftechnologythat'smuchmoreadvancedthanitusedtobewithheartratevariabilities,that'spartofitandall,butI'mreallyintriguedbythestatsofwirelesssensorsforthis.Arethesethekindsofthingsthataregoingtoreachconsumergrade.Ihavea99dollarheartratesensorsthatIsellonBulletproofandIseethemuse...Irecommendpeopleusethosetobasicallyimprovemeditationbecausewhenyouaremeditatingwrongyourheart-ratevariabilitychanges.


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CanIgetoneoftheseordoyouseeadayin5yearswherepeoplewillbeabletogetoneoftheseheartratesensorsandactuallymeditatetoraiseoxytocinandwhenit'snotraisingyouseeresultsonyouriPhoneandittellsyoumeditatebetterdumbass.

Paul: Whichalwayshelpswhenyoaremeditated,right?

Dave: Youaremeditatingwrong,bad.Isthatactuallypossiblewiththiskindoftech?I'mblowaway.

Paul: I'vegottocomeupandvisit.That'sexactlywhatwearedoingthissummeriswehaveadevice,webuildthealgorithms,we'vegotanalphatestgoingonrightnowsothatwecanhaveawearable,thathashighenoughgradedatawhereweactuallycanmeasure,notonlyoxytocin,butreallyengagementmorebroadlyunderstood.Hardlyengagementishavetopayattentiontoyou.Thesecondishowtoactuallycareaboutwhatyouaresaying?Ihavetolistenwell,Ihavetorespondtoyou.Webuildalgorithmsandalgorithmwecall“zest”thattellsusaboutthequalityofthatrelationshipandsoweare...

Anyway[crosstalk00:53:59]...

Dave: Peoplelistening,someofthemarereallyseriouslyintobiohacking,theseconversationswillbeblowingyouawayifyouarelikethisiswheretheworldisgoing.Thisissocool.Allright,questionforyouthen,Ihaveagoodfriend,JoePolishwhorunsthegeniusnetworkandthisisagroupofhighendmarketingpeopleandyoujusthelpedmanypeople.LikeRichardBransonandTimFerrisandguyslikethatsucceed.He'sworkingonaddictionandhe'sbeenlookingreallyhardforasystemthatcantellyouwhenanaddictisabouttogobacktotheirhabit,whatevertheirhabitis;asexaddict,drugaddict,alcoholic,whatever.It'soxytocinapartoftheaddictioncyclethatweexperienceoristhatalldopamine?

Paul: Greatquestion.Weactuallyhavedonesomestudiesonthisandotherlabshaveaswell.Thequestionthatdrovemewas,ifyouareinrehab,ifyouareanaddictandyouaregettingtreated,whatyouoftenseeisthatpeoplehavebeenaddictedforalongenoughtime,don'tdrawontheirsupportnetworktoatleaststaysober.AA.Forgetaboutallthemakingamendsandallthat,apartofitisjustasupportnetworktosay,IrealizeIhaveaproblemandIwanttohavethesepeoplehelpmedealwiththatproblem.Itcanbeveryeffective.Wefindinlongtermstimulantuse,methamphetamine,cocaine,isthatthereceptorsforoxytocinthatmakeitfeelgoodtointeractwithotherpeople,particularlyinthefrontalcortexaredamagedorkilled.

Thereasonwhywearelongtermaddictsparticularlystimulantaddictsdon'treachout,Ithinkistheyjustdon'thavetheneuralresources.Theyarenotmotivated.Theydon'tgetthatkickthatwedowhenwemeetsomeonenew,weseeagoodfriend,wegetahug.Therehasbeensomeveryrecentclinicaltrialsusingoxytocintoeaseinwiththesymptoms,withdrawalsymptomscomingondrugs,wheresomereasonablypromisingresults.OnereasonthatI'mcomfortablearoundstrangerswhenmybrainmakesoxytocinisbecausemyphysiologicarousalreducesandalsomypainlevel,activationthebrain'spainmetricsgoesdownsoitliterallyfeelscomfortabletobearoundyou,isn'tthatweird.

Again,thisisthisclueGevolutionarysystemsoyourquestionIthinkisagreatonewhichis


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couldIhaveacenterthatwouldsay,"Youareatrisknow“I'mnotsure.Ithinkwithenoughresearchandsomesmartalgorithms,itmightbepossible.

Dave: Hereisthedeal.Thereisamilliondollarsforyouifit'spossible.CauseJoejustputupamilliondollarsasanaward,likeanXpricelevelawardforbeingabletopredictarelapseforaddicts.ThereasonIwasasking,itsoundslikeyou[inaudible00:56:54]withasensoronfascinatingstuff.IhopeeveryonelisteningisasintriguedbythisthinkingasIambecausethisisjustcoolstuff.Ifyouarenotintrigued,sorry,gotothenextepisodebecausethisisawesome.

Paul: Ithinkwearefascinatedby2things.Oneisourself.I'veMRI'dmybrainazilliontimesandmywife's.IhavemywifebrainandmybrainandIspent5or6minuteslookingatmywife'sbrain.Lookingfortumors.Idon'tunderstandwhysheissocrazy.MybrainIspenthourslookingatmyownbrain,“MyGod,mymedullaissoweirdshaped!”I'veseenworsethanthat.Thenweareseeingotherpeople.Whydootherpeoplearoundussoweirdlyinterestingandsometimescrazy?Thatisafascinatingtopicforsocialcreaturesandthecensusgiveusobjectiveinformationthat'snotbeingfilteredthroughourownbullshit.Ithinkit'sagreatwaytofigureout,“heyyouknowwhat,mywifeisreallystressedouttoday.”Insteadofmebitchingbackather,whatshereallyneedsisahugorjusta20minutesalonetodecompressofwhatever.

Dave: Or100secondvideo.Honeywatchthis,I'llberightback.

Paul: It'dbegreat,yeah.Ittakesallthepressureoffmethen.Idon'thavetodoanycare-taking.Justwatchthevideoyou'llbegood.

Dave: ThereisanethicalquestionhereforyouPaul.Isitethicaltohackyouremployeesthiswayorhackyourwifethisway?

Paul: IgaveatalkrecentlyandIsaidIwanttouse,atauniversity,youknoweveryoneissosensitiverightnow,micro-aggressions.IcanuseonebadwordinthistalkandIwanttogiveyouachancetoeitherleaveor[crosstalk00:58:38]...

Dave: Triggeronethingthatyouaregoingtosaypoop.

Paul: That'sright.ItstartswithaP.That'sright.I'veusedoneword,startswithaPandthatwordispersuasion.IwanttotrytoconvinceyouinthenexthourthatpersuasionisnotadirtywordbecauseeverytimeIinteractwithanyhumanbeing,I'mseekingtopersuadehimorher,atleastunconsciously.IfIdid,I'dlikeyoutolikeme.Idon'tknowwhy,butIhavesomeinterests.Actuallywehavealotofstuffwe'vegottotalkabout.Wehaveatonofstufftodotogether.Everyinteractioninvolvespersuasion.Whetheryoulikeitornot,whetheryouarethinkingaboutitornot,youarestilldoingit.Ifweunderstandneurologicallyhowtopersuadepeoplewhichisabout10yearsofworkoutofmylab,thenwecanbemoreeffectiveatitandoxytocinispartofthat,it'snotthewholeanswer.Ithinkofyouaretransparentaboutit,Iwanttomakethebestcasepossibletoyouaboutsaypurchasingmynewproduct.

Youhaveabigbrain,anicebigpre-frontalcortex.I'drathermakethecasebetterthanmakeitworse.I'drathershowyouwhyit'sgreatforyou.Sure,it'sgoingtogenerateasaleforme,but


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I'dlovetohaveyouasalongtermcustomersoIwanttomakethemostpersuasivecasepossible.Intheendyouhavetodecide.Ican'tcoerceyou.I'mnotgoingtoholdaguntoyourhead.Ifwearegoingtopersuadepeopleanyway,whydon'twejusttrytodoitreallywell.Aslongaswearetransparentaboutit,likewhenwedomicro-learning,beforeyoudoanymicro-learningwithyouremployeesonimprovingculture,haveaTownHallandsitandtalkaboutwhatwearedoing.

Wearedoingthisbecausewearethinkingitwillbebetterforyou.You'llbemoreengagedwithyourwork.Moreengagedwiththepeoplearoundyouandwearegoingtobemoreproductiveandmakemoreprofitssoyoucankeepyourjobandevengetaraise.Ifyouguysareokaywiththat,let'stryitfor30daysandjustseewhathappens.Ifitsucksoryouhateit,letmeknow,butthelastthingIwanttodoisdriveyouguyscrazybecauseIhiredyoubecauseIthinkyouguysareawesome.Aslongasyousaythatandthengiveconstantfeedback,lookifthisisnotworkingoryouaretiredofdoingthesesurveyseverymonthorwhateverletmeknow,wecanchangeit.

Dave: Itfeelslikeyouaresayingeverytimeyouareinteractwithsomeoneyouarehackingthemonsomelevel.EitheryouareaddingvalueoryouarenotandImadethatdecisionwithBulletproofRadio.Ilookatthenumberofdownloadsandnumberofhoursandit'sweareprobablyrunningour42milliondownloadsoftheshownow,42millionhoursofhumanlifetime.I'meitheramassmurderer,ifI'mwastingpeople'stime.LikehundredsoflifetimesorlikeI'maddingvalue,butattheendoftheday,I'msomewhereonthatspectrum,I'mprobablynotrightinthemiddle.Iamactivelyhackingpeoplelisteningrightnow.Likethewordswearechoosing,whethertheyareconsciousorunconscioushaveaneffectonthepeoplearound.

Thewayyouaremoving,thewayI'mmoving,allofthisistakeninbythepeople'snervoussystemasanenvironmentalsignalandit'sgoingtodosomethingtothem.Ifigurethatthat'shappeningwhetherit'sallunconsciousorallconscious,itshouldjustbeallconscioussothatwecanactuallydobetterthings.ThereasonIaskabouttheethicsofthisisthatIalsojustenrolledorunveiledaprogramatBulletproof,I'mhackingalloftheemployeesbrainswhereItooktheneuroscientistsfrom40YearsofZenandwehavededicatedclinicalgrades,EEG,attheofficeforalltheemployeessothattheycandohighendclinicalneurofeedbacktoimprovethemselves.

It'slikeit'sagiantinvestment.Personally,justintermsofmonetaryinvestment,butit'saculturething,butitisalsolikeisitethicaltohackyouremployeesbrains?IthoughtaboutthisforalongtimeandIsaid,"Well,isitethicalformenotto?"Ifitworksandit'savailableandIcoulddoit,thenhowcouldInot.Ithinkthereisgoingtobealotwrittenaboutthisoverthenext10yearsaboutthisidea.

Paul: Iloveit.Iagreewithyoucompletely.Aslongasthere’sanopt-out,youaren'tforcingthemtodothis.Anyway,thisisavailable.Ithinkit'smadegoodforyou.It'sprobablygoodforthecompanytoo,butalsoIwantedthistobeagreatplaceforyoutowork.

Dave: Yeah.Yougettokeeptheimprovementsinbrain,nomatterwhereyougoafterwards,it'syourbrainandyoujustgottotunein.It'sgoingtomakeanicesortofpeoplearoundyou,butyouwantedthatanywayandnoweverythingiseasierandit'sprofoundlychangedwhoIam.Thatsaid,I'msurethereisgoingtobeafewpeople,evenatBulletproof,althoughwetendtohire


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biohackers.Afewpeoplelike,I,mighttolikewhatImightfind.Sothendon'tdoit.It'stotallycool,butIthinkI'mgoingtoseejustabouteveryoneinacompanyraisetheirhandandsay,"OfcourseIwanttotrythis."

Paul: Atleasttryit.

Dave: We'llseewhathappens,right?

Paul: Youcanalwaysstopdoingit.Irememberacoupleofyearsago,TimeMagazineaskedmetowritealittleblurbfornewyeargoalsorsomethinglike“Howdoyouknowyouarehavinganimpactonpeople?”Ithought,whatItryingtodoinmylifeiswhatIcallcreatedloveforusenvironment.ForeveryinteractionIhadalittlelovetotheworld.IfIcandothat,ifIcanapprovethepeople'slivesoranythingjustalittlebitbysomeeffortthatIcantake,thenI'vehadapositiveimpactandifthatspreads,heygreat,ifitdoesn't,thenI'vejusttriedtomeetsomeonearoundmenicerorhappier.

Dave: Thatissuchanelegantwayofputtingto.Loveplus.It'sactuallyabigthing.Ifyouhad2pathsandoneofthemhadmoreloveinitorjusttakeout,itdidn'tcostyouanymoretotakethat.It'sthesamephilosophybehindbiohacking.Ibelievewhenyoumakeyourselfalittlebitbettereveryday,youarenicertoeveryonearoundyou.

Paul: Becauseyourstressislower.Youareeternallyhappier.Youareflourishing.Absolutely.Weknowthat,right?Hereisthelastthingonoxytocin,IpromiseI'lltakeabreath.Whenweareunderveryhighstress,weareinsurvivalmode,epinephrineinhibitsthereleaseofoxytocin,sonowallofasudden,it'snotmetryingtomegetthroughthenext10minutesthatcan'tevenbenicetoyou.We'veallbeeninthatstateandit'snotpleasant.Alittlestress,goodforoxytocinrelease,goodforteamwork,goodtobringustogether.Toomuchstressnotgood.Findingthatbalanceinourownlivesisveryimportantwherewe...Sometimeswearewithdoubtandsometimesit'sjustappropriate,butIthinkasyougetolderyoulearntomodulelikethatandthingslikemeditation,finalfeedback,allthataregreatwaystolearnhowtomodulateyourownresponsetostress.

Stressisjustacorticalfantasyanyway,right?Aslongasyouarenotbeinghitorstabbedorsomething,that'saphysiologicstressor,butwethinkabout,ohmyGod,canIpaythemortgagenextmonth?That'snotgoingtoactuallykillyouinthenext10minutes,Imeanthat'sastressorandyouhavetoresolvethatproblem,butwecanjustlearntotakeabreathandthenmeditateortakeawalkandwhateveritis,wearedrawntopeoplearoundmeandsay,"Youknowwhathoney,I'mjusthavingabadday."IjustneedtohavealittleextratimeandcarefromyouandI'vegonethroughtheageinmylifewhereIdon'tmindaskingthatfrommyfriendsandfamily.Youknowwhat,Icouldusealittleextraloverightnow.Howaboutsomeonehelpmeout.

Dave: Yeah.Beingabletoaskforhelpisnotanaturalmalethingtodo,butit'sreallybeneficialwhenyoulearnthatit'ssafetodothat.Ineverwaswiredtodothateither.Youmentioned,epinephrine,doyoutracktheepinephrinetonorepinephrineratiointheworkyoudo?

Paul: Wehave.Wefoundthatsincewe'venowmovedtosensorsthatheartrateandskin


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conductanceareactuallyprettygoodmeasures.Weusedtogothrough12to13,7gallonbio-hazardbucketsofneedlesandtubesandblooddrawmaterialandweareprobablydowntomaybe4ofthose7gallonbucketsperyearnow,sowe'vereallycutdownbyhalformoretheamountofbloodworkwedobecausewecorrelatedthosebloodfindingswiththesehighfrequencynon-invasivemeasures.Youareright,oncewegetdowntowearablecenters,ourwholeworldisgettingbetter.

Dave: It'ssuchvaluableworkyou’vedonePaulandforpeoplelisteningPaulhasbeendrawinghugeamountsofbloodandlookingatchemicalsandrealizing,"Ohwait,thereisasignalcomingoffthebodythatwasalwaysthere,that'seasytoget.Wejustdidn'tknowthissignalmatchedthesechemicals."Thatisgamechangingforallofusbecauseit'scheapandeasytogetanelectricalorevenanelectromagneticsignaloffthebody.Amovement,agate,allthesethingsweradiateallthetime.Allthisinformationthat'sbeenignoredbymostofmedicalscienceexceptforsomeneurologicalthingshereandthere,butwhenyouputthattogetherandyoudrawthecorrelationsthere,weshouldn'tbedrawingasmuchbloodasweare.Thatsaid,Ijusthad20vilesdrawn2weeksago.

Paul: Ohno!

Dave: No,that'sgood.Idobloodtestforfun.

Paul: Okay,nosickness,thisiswhat...

Dave: No,thiswasforthehumanlongevityinc.Wedidthefullhumangenomesequencingand3or4timesayearIget19or20vilesdrawnbecauseI'mgoingtoliveto180,IwanttoknoweverythingIcan.

Paul: Thereyougo.YouknowwhatwemightdoattheconferenceatPasadenaiswecancertainlytestthesensorsyouhaveorwecanactuallyplaythevideoandhooksomepeopleupinrealtimeforthecensus,showthedataonthescreen.

Dave: Yeah.Absolutely.Infactlet'sdoit.Infact,hookmeupandwe'llhookupacoupleofotherpeople.

Paul: Thereyougo.Justmakesureyoudon'tseethevideo.Althoughit'shardtoactuallydoit.Thereisstufflikedeepinthebrainstem,soit'shardtosuppress.

Dave: Allright.We'lldomeandwe'lldoacoupleofvictimsfromtheaudience.Yeah,we'llarrangethisoffline.Thisisgoingtobesofun.IfyouarelisteningtothisandyouareinLAoryouaregoingtobeinLAinSeptember,youhavetocometotheConference,it'sgoingtobesoamazing.Bulletproofconference.com.Paul,havefun.We'llfigureoutwhichdayitworks,butprobablytheopeningday.

Paul: Excellent.

Dave: Wow!Allright.Ihaveonemorequestionforyoubeforewecometotheendoftheinterview.If


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someonecametoyoutodayandsaid,"Paul,IwanttokickmoreassateverythingIdoinlife."Giveneverythingyou'velearnedinyourlife,whatarethe3mostimportantthingsIneedtodo?OrthingsIneedtodoorthingsIneedtoknowinordertoachievethatgoal.I'mgoingtobebetterateverything,whatmattersthemost?

Paul: Whatagreatquestion!Youcouldn'thavepreppedmeforthis?

Dave: Idon'tknowifyoulistenedtoanyofthepastepisodes,youwouldhaveknownitwascoming.

Paul: Neverwantittobecaffeine,ofcourse,weknowthat.

Dave: Bestanswereverin...

Paul: MaybeBulletproofCoffee,I'mjustsaying.Ithinkthefirstthingistakesmartriskforsure.Thesecondisaskforhelp,allthetime.Don'tbelieveyourownBS.Reallyaskforhelpandthesecondisbelieveinyourself.IthinkyouandIareboth,wearedoingthingswenevershouldhavebeendoing.Wearetrainedtodoandpartofthatwasjustbeingastubborn,likeyouknowwhat,actuallyI'mguessI'llplaythisthingout,itwillbestupid,butjustletitplayoutandjustseeifyoucouldaccumulateevidencethatthismightnotbecrazy.ifIknewnow,whateverIdidn'tknowbackthen,Iwouldneverhavedoneit.Itwaswaytoohard,itwaswaytoorisky,butIhadthisintuitionandIjustaccumulatedevidencelittlebylittlebylittle.Iaskedforsomanypeople'shelp.Ijustsaid,"Idon'tknowanything.Youworkwithrats."Infact,IwassolazyDave,Isaid,"Hey,youarearatoxytocinguy."

I'lldesigntheexperimentforhumans.Ifiguredoutagreatparticle,Ithinkitwillwork,whydon'tyouguysdoit,youaretheexperts.Literally,acoupleofpeoplesaidtomelikePaul,theydon'thavefur,theydon'thavetails,Idon'twanttogetinvolvedinthatkindofissues.Finally,anexpressionlike,"Okay,ifthisisagoodidea,I'mgoingtofigureouthowtodoit."I'vegottolearnhowtodrawblood,Igotafullebodomylicense,IhiredMDs,IdidallthethingsIhadtodotomakethislegitandanyway.

Dave: Wow!I'mimpressedandIhaven'ttalkedaboutthesimpleratedbefore,butwejust...WeareopeningthefirstBulletproof,likehumanhackinglabinSantaMonicaandit'sgotalotofstuffthatitcreatesinterventionsforincreasingmitochondrialfunctionsandthingslikethat.Partofitisapartnershipwithalabthathasafullebodimist,IV,therapiesandallthat.Thegoalthereistobeabletoofferanybloodtestyouwant.ThereisawholefirewallaroundgettingbloodtestsandIfeellikeit'safundamentalhumanrighttoknowanythingaboutyourbodythatcanbeknown.WeareenablingthatandIhopetobeatyourrecordof7bucketsofbio-hazardmaterial.

Paul: WhenisthelabopeninSantaMonica?

Dave: Assoonaswegetourbuildingpermitstuffinorder.Itwillbewithinthenextmonthor2ifit'sagoodguess.

Paul: I'llbethereforthegrandopening,


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Dave: Youareonthelist.

Paul: Thatsoundsgreat.Thishasbeensomuchfun,Ican'ttellyou.

Dave: It'sbeengreatfun.Now,wherecanpeoplefindoutmoreaboutyourworkdoctorlove?

Paul: Pauljzak.com.

Dave: Zak.

Paul: Zak.Olfactor.com,organizationaltrustandoptimizingteamworkandourworkonreallythebiohackingitselfisatzestxlabs.com,zestxlabs.com.Likeallofuswearedoingazillionthingsatonce.BythewaywetaketaxmoneyfromthenexttaxpayersofUS.Welovetohelppeoplecomevisitourlab.Peoplecanfindmeonline.ShootmeanemailifyouareintheLAareaandyouhavetoseewhatwedo.Everyoneiswelcome.

Dave: Beautiful.That'sahugeoffer.Isuspectyou'llgetsomepeopletakingyouuponthat.ThereisanamazingcommunityofpeoplelisteningtoBulletproofRadio.ThekindofpeoplewhocometotheconferenceandcometothecoffeeshopinSantaMonicaandjusthangoutandactuallyanotheronedowntownwejustopenedoursecondoneintheartsdistrictandpeoplewhoreallywellbecausetheyaredeeplycuriousaboutthisstuff.Isuspectyou'llhaveacoupleofcoollunchesasaresultofthatoffersopeopletakePauluponthis.Paul,thanksforbeingonBulletproofRadio,I'msoexcitedtobehackingpeopleusingyourtechattheconference,it'sbeenagreatfun.HaveanawesometimeandI'llseeyouinanothermonthorsoattheconference,September23rdto23rd.

Paul: Thanksforhavingmeon.Ilookforwardtomanyconversationswithyouinthefuture.

Dave: Likewise.Iforgotthefinalthing.Yournewbook,that'scomingout.Isaidit'snameearlier,it'sgoingtobecalled,what'sitcalled?

Paul: TrustFactor.

Dave: Trustfactor.Wherecanpeoplefindoutmoreaboutthat?Isthereawaytopre-orderityetornotyet?

Paul: Itsonamazon.TrustFactoronamazon.

Dave: Gotoamazonanddotrustfactor.IfyouenjoyedthisinterviewasmuchasIdid,thisisoneofthosereallyfunoneswhereyoulearnalotofstuffandyoutalktoaworldexpertinsomething.Gooutthereandpickoutacopyorpre-orderacopyofPaul'sbook.Gotoamazonrightnowandjustsearchfortrustfactorsforthescienceofcreatinghighperformancecompanieswho'snameisPaulZak,ZAK.OrderthatandIcantellyouI'llbereadinganearlycopyofthatbeforeyougetyoursbecausePaul'sprobablygoingtosendmethePDFrightafterthiscall.I'llberollingthisstuffoutofBulletproofbeforeyouevengetthebook,butwhenyougetthebook,you'llbeoutofthecurve.


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Paul: Thanksfortheplug.Iappreciateit.

Dave: ThanksPaul.Thanksforwatching.Gettonsmoreoriginalinfotomakeiteasiertokickmore

assetlifewhenyousignupwithafreenewsletteratBulletproofexec.com.ThanksforwatchingandstayBulletproof.

Transcript – Hugs from Dr. Love with Paul Zak -...

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