TRANSCRIPT: 4th Public Hearing of the Senate Blue Ribbon Committee on the $81-M Money Laundering...

8/18/2019 TRANSCRIPT: 4th Public Hearing of the Senate Blue Ribbon Committee on the $81-M Money Laundering Case

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Republic of the PhilippinesCONGRESS OF THE PHILIPPINES

SENATEPasay City

COMMITTEE ON ACCOUNTABILITY OFPUBLIC OFFICERS AND INVESTIGATIONS

(BLUE RIBBON)

DATE : Tuesday, April 5, 2016

TIME : 10:30 a.m.

VENUE : Session Hall2nd Floor, Senate of the PhilippinesFinancial Center, Roxas BoulevardPasay City

AGENDA : INVESTIGATION INTO THE ALLEGEDUS$100 MILLION THAT WAS LAUNDEREDIN THE PHILIPPINES

ATTENDANCE

SENATORS:

HON. TEOFISTO L. GUINGONA III - ChairmanHON. RALPH G. RECTO - Senate President Pro TemporeHON. JUAN PONCE ENRILE - Minority Floor LeaderHON. SERGIO R. OSMEÑA IIIHON. PAOLO BENIGNO “BAM” AQUINO IV

GUESTS/RESOURCE PERSONS:

Mr. Nestor A. Espenilla Jr. - Deputy Governor, BangkoSentral ng Pilipinas (BSP)

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COMMITTEE ON ACCOUNTABILITY OF PUBLIC OFFICERSAND INVESTIGATIONS (BLUE RIBBON)Tuesday, April 5, 2016Page 2

Mr. Nelson M. Aspe - Deputy Commissioner in

Operations, Bureau of InternalRevenue (BIR)

Atty. Marissa O. Cabreros - Assistant Commissioner forLegal Service, BIR

Atty. Mitchell L. Yu - Chief, Regular Large TaxpayersAudit Division II

Atty. Dennis Funa - Deputy InsuranceCommissioner, InsuranceCommission (IC)

Atty. Julia C. Bacay-Abad - Executive Director, Anti-Money

Laundering Council (AMLC)Secretariat

Mr. Eugene Manalastas - Chief Operating Officer,Philippine Amusement andGaming Corporation (PAGCOR)

Mr. Raymundo De Guzman - PAGCOR Representative forMidas

Mr. Manuel Huberto B. Gaite - Commissioner, Securities andExchange Commission (SEC)

Mr. Lorenzo V. Tan - President and Chief Executive

Officer, Rizal CommercialBanking Corporation (RCBC)Atty. Ma. Celia Fernandez-Estavillo- Head, Legal and Regulatory Affairs

Group, RCBCMr. Raul Victor B. Tan - Executive Vice President

Treasury Group Head, RCBCMs. Maia Santos-Deguito - Former Branch Manager, RCBC-

Jupiter BranchMr. Dennis Bancod - Operations Head, RCBCMr. Adrian Yujuico - Reserve Officer, RCBC

Mr. Reymart A. Marbella - Customer Service Assistant,RCBCMr. Romualdo S. Agarrado - Reserve Officer, RCBCAtty. Alvin Go - Head and Chief Legal Counsel, BDO

Unibank, Inc.Ms. Alice Z. Cordero - 1st Senior Vice President, Global

Compliance Group, Philippine NationalBank (PNB)

Mr. Emmanuel Gomez - Branch Manager, PNB-ErmitaAtty. Benedicto Valerio Jr. - Corporate Secretary, EastWest

Banking CorporationMs. Bernadette Ratcliffe - Chief Compliance Officer,

EastWest Banking Corporation

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Ms. Salud Bautista - President, Philrem Service

CorporationMr. Michael Bautista - Philrem Service CorporationMr. Kam Sin Wong a.k.a. Kim Wong - Eastern Hawaii Leisure Company

Ltd.Mr. William So Go - Centurytex TradingAtty. Silverio Benny J. Tan - Corporate Secretary, Solaire

Resort and Casino ManilaAtty. Katrina L. Nepomuceno - General Counsel, Leisure and

Resorts World Corporation(LRWC)

Hon. John Gomes - Ambassador, People’s Republicof Bangladesh

Mr. Jaker Hossain - Deputy General Manager,Accounts and BudgetingDepartment, Bangladesh Bank

Mr. Mohammad Abdur Rab - Joint Director, BangladeshFinancial Intelligence Unit(BFIU), Bangladesh Bank

Atty. Eduardo Escaño - Representative, Ms. Chang LaiFong

Atty. Francis C. Aguilar - Counsel for Chau Cheuk Wah

SENATORS’ STAFF

Atty. Nicholai Noel B. Lazaro - O/S GuingonaMs. Judith Lee - O/S GuingonaMr. Dante Xenon B. Atienza - O/S GuingonaG.H. Ambat - O/S GuingonaMs. Khristine Joy E. Pulumbarit - O/S Guingona

Mr. Carlo Lopez Vito - O/S GuingonaMr. George A. Dolocanog - O/S GuingonaMr. Alemar I. Mosquito - O/S RectoMr. Joseph Irvin A. Obenza - O/S RectoMs. Michel C. Palma - O/S RectoMs. Kristela Castronuevo - O/S RectoMs. Rikka Sotto - O/S RectoMs. Marni Ortega - O/S RectoMr. Nyl Mendoza - O/S EnrileMr. Julius Gumban - O/S EnrileMr. Doni Capuyan - O/S OsmeñaMs. Vina Panes - O/S OsmeñaMs. Joan Dairo-Revoltar - O/S Osmeña

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Ms. Kathreena D. Tam - O/S Osmeña

Mr. Mario C. Palomado - O/S OsmeñaMs. Judith Manjares - O/S OsmeñaMs. Cecile Palines - O/S AquinoAtty. Alain Baguisi - O/S AngaraMr. Ryan Martin Macalatan - O/S PimentelMs. Ma. Clarissa Lopez - O/S BinayMr. Ricardo Calimag - O/S Binay

SENATE SECRETARIAT:

Atty. Rodolfo Noel S. Quimbo - Director General, Blue RibbonOversight Office Management(BROOM)

Atty. Agapito Rene S. Conchu - Director III, Assessment andMonitoring Service, BROOM

Atty. Sarah Lou Y. Arriola - Director III, InvestigationService, BROOM

Ms. Josephine DG Herrera - Director II, InvestigationService, BROOM

Ms. Susan M. Chua - Director II, Assessment andMonitoring Service, BROOMAtty. Fritzie Jane A. Aduna - Staff, BROOMMs. Divina Gracia V. Ramos - - do –Ms. Remedios Amor A. Abagon - - do –Mr. Eutiquio Pacapac - - do –Mr. Leonardo Ramirez Jr. - - do –Ms. Jennifer L. Flores - Committee StenographerMs. Bathaluman H. Gonzales - - do –Ms. Anna Leah C. Catimbang - - do –

Ms. Carolina F. Driz - - do –Ms. Maribel P. Mendoza - - do –Ms. Jeanne M. Baisa - - do –Ms. Christine M. Nery - - do –Ms. Marivic H. Ulep - - do –Mr. Guillermo E. Sapinoso Jr. - - do –Ms. Nida A. Mancol - - do –Mr. Rommel P. Alger - - do –Ms. Sherill M. Villadiego - - do –Ms. Cecilia T. Sotto - - do –Ms. Jo B. Cadaing - - do –Ms. Rosemarie J. Ortiz - - do –Ms. Cindell B. Gealan - - do –

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Ms. Helen S. Gayapa - Committee Stenographer

Ms. Jocelyn A. Dela Cruz - - do –Ms. Ma. Emperatriz L. Novero - - do –Ms. Susana Grace L. Robles - - do –Ms. Rosalinda J. Catadman - - do –Mr. Ronnie Cabañero - Legislative PageMs. Ma. Amity Caragay - - do –Ms. Laarni C. Vidal - - do –Ms. Gina Rowena Nortez - - do –Ms. Mary Jeanette L. Padilla - - do –Mr. Elmer Cardiño - - do –

Mr. Eric Jalandoon - - do –Mr. Hizar Sarmiento - Audio OperatorMr. Antonio Lazaga - - do –Mr. Ruel Fernandez - - do –

(For complete list, please see attached Attendance Sheet.)

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COMMITTEE ON ACCOUNTABILITY OF PUBLIC OFFICERS AND

INVESTIGATIONS (BLUE RIBBON)

JLFLORES I-1 April 5, 2016 11:34 a.m. 1

AT 11:34 A.M., HON. TEOFISTO L. GUINGONA III,

CHAIRMAN OF THE COMMITTEE, CALLED THE HEARING

TO ORDER.

THE CHAIRMAN. This hearing is called to order.

Good morning, everyone.

Let me begin by acknowledging the senators who are here this

morning, starting with our minority floor leader, Senator Juan Ponce

Enrile—good morning, sir. We also have Senator Ralph Recto—good

morning, sir.

Okay. We have representatives from the BIR—are you around?

Please raise your hand. Okay. So, Mr. Nelson Aspe, Marissa Cabreros,

Mitchell Yu—Oh, you are out in force—Shirley Calapatia—good

morning, everyone from the BIR.

Of course, our deputy governor—Governor Nestor A. Espenilla—

good morning, sir.

Representing the Securities and Exchange Commission, a

member of the AMLC, Commissioner Manuel Gaite—good morning, sir.

Of course, another member of the AMLC, the commissioner of the

Insurance Commission, Atty. Manny Dooc—where are you?—wala?

Okay--represented by Atty. Dennis Funa--There you are, okay. The

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AMLC secretary, executive director, Ms. Julia Bacay-Abad—ma’am,

good morning.

Pagcor, represented by its president, Eugenio Manalastas—good

morning, sir; and Pagcor representative for Midas—where are you?--

Raymund De Guzman? Ah, okay.

For those--please press the mike. There is a red light, that

means you can talk; then, press again.

Of course, from RCBC, we have Mr. Lorenzo Tan—good morning,

sir; Raul Tan, the head of the treasury group and executive vice

president—good morning, sir; Atty. Maria Celia Estavillo--good

morning, ma’am; Reymart Marbella; Romualdo Agarrado; and Pinky

Macaalay, the Unimart branch manager—good morning, everyone. Are

all three here? Okay. Thank you.

Rey Maclang of PNB, represented by Ms. Alice Cordero—good

morning, ma’am; and the branch manager of PNB Ermita, Mr.

Emmanuel Gomez—are you around? Oh, there you are. Good morning,

sir.

Representing BDO, Atty. Alvin Go—are you around? Yes, sir.

Good morning; EastWest Banking Corporation, represented by Atty.

Benedicto Valerio and Bernadette Ratcliffe—hello, ma’am, good

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morning; Philrem, Ms. Salud Bautista and Michael Bautista—good

morning.

MS. BAUTISTA. Good morning, sir.

THE CHAIRMAN. Then, we also have Mr. William Go—good

morning, sir; and Mr. Kim Wong—good morning, sir.

Representing Solaire, Atty. Benny Tan—good morning; and

representing Leisure and Resorts World Corporation, Midas Hotel, Atty.

Katrina Nepomuceno—good morning; and then we have Mr. Adrian Au

of Dreams Casino and Atty. Jomini Nazareno—are you around? There

you are. Okay, thank you. Good morning.

Maia Santos Deguito, ma’am, good morning. We will give you

time. I understand you have a statement later on. We will give you

time to say your statement, ma’am; Angela Torres, formerly of RCBC—

ma’am, yes, I see you, good morning; and Lauren Anthony Escobar,

the business sales officer of Grepalife. Are you around?

Okay. Can we have those who have not yet—who are here for

the first time, please stand up and take your oath.

Comsec, please—Director General, please administer the oath.

MR. QUIMBO. Those who are here for the first time, kindly

stand and raise your right hand.

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Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth and

nothing but the truth in this proceeding? [Resource persons nodded.]

[The resource persons who took their oath are Mr. Raymundo De

Guzman, Atty. Dennis Funa, Mr. Nelson Aspe, Atty. Marissa Cabreros,

Atty. Mitchell Yu and Ms. Alice Cordero.]

Thank you. You may take your seats.

THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. Thank you.

At this point, we would also like to recognize the presence of the

chairman of the Committee on Banks, Senator Serge Osmeña—good

morning, sir.

We would also like to acknowledge the presence of the

ambassador of the People’s Republic of Bangladesh, Ambassador John

Gomes—good morning, sir. The minister and deputy chief of mission,

Ms. Shahnaz Gazi—good morning, ma’am. The Bangladesh Financial

Intelligence Unit, which I suppose is the counterpart of our AMLC, Mr.

Mohammad Abdur Rab—good morning, sir. We also have the deputy

general manager of the Accounts and Budgeting Department of the

Central Bank of Bangladesh, Mr. Jaker Hossain—good morning, sir.

Okay. Let me begin by—itanong natin kay Mr. Kim Wong—sir.

MR. WONG. Yes, sir.

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THE CHAIRMAN. You said in your last hearing—ang sabi niyo

sa past hearing na mayroon ka pang 450 na willing pang ibalik po,

hindi ho ba? At sa diyaryo ngayon, nakalagay na ibabalik niyo po

iyong 450—willing kayo na ibalik iyong 450 million? Puwede ba, in

front of everyone, the public now, can we get a commitment that you

will return the 450 million?

MR. WONG. Opo, sir. Nagpagawa po ako promissory note po,

within 15 to 30 days kasi mangungutang pa ako sa mga kaibigan ko,

mga ibang shares of company ko para maayos ko po.

THE CHAIRMAN. Okay.

MR. WONG. Opo. Ito po iyong promissory note, isa-isubmit ko

po sa Committee niyo po.

THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. So, within 15 to 30 days, maibabalik

mo na iyong 450 million?

MR. WONG. Opo, sir. May word of honor po ako.

THE CHAIRMAN. So, good as cash na iyan, hindi iyan dead

sheets?

MR. WONG. Hindi po.

THE CHAIRMAN. Good as cash?

MR. WONG. Cash po, ibibigay ko po.

THE CHAIRMAN. Okay.

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MR. WONG. Opo.

THE CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much.

Okay. Today, I would like to start off with the Philrem.

Okay. Hearing after hearing after hearing, you have been telling

the public that you have delivered P600 million and $18 million to a

certain Mr. Weikang Xu at Solaire. And I think you have a lot of

explaining to do—you know, I think it is better if you listen to the

question rather than listening to your counsel.

Anyway, counsel, I will give you time to—if you wish to consult

with your counsel, it is a good. But I think you have to explain

because hearing after hearing after hearing, you have been saying to

the public that you delivered 600 million cash to Mr. Weikang Xu at

Solaire and $18 million. But in the last hearing, you contradicted

yourself by saying that .../jlf

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BRHGonzales II-1 April 5, 2016 11:44 a.m. 1

THE CHAIRMAN. …by saying that one of the deliveries was

done in your house and you said that Mr. Kim Wong was present. So

there is a contradiction here. If there was a delivery—and I’m

referring to Page 170 of the transcripts, and here you state that there

was a delivery of cash which was done in your house. So if all 600 was

delivered to Solaire plus the 18 million, why now suddenly you’re

saying that there is a delivery in your house in the presence of Mr. Kim

Wong? You have contradicted yourself. And mind you, I think you are

facing a lot of problems. I don’t think you should add to your problems

by giving false testimony, please. Now, you can consult with your

counsel if you wish before you answer.

MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, may I answer that question?

THE CHAIRMAN. Yes, answer the question.

MR. BAUTISTA. Okay, sir. Sir, Philrem is an 18-year old

company with the flawless and spotless record. We do not have any

complaints from any clients or from any transactions—

THE CHAIRMAN. Please answer the question.

MR. BAUTISTA. In this particular transaction, sir—

THE CHAIRMAN. Answer the question.

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MR. BAUTISTA. Yes, sir. The deliveries were supposedly for a

Weikang Xu. And the first delivery was done in Solaire and everything

else was picked up from our house, sir.

THE CHAIRMAN. So now, you’re contradicting yourself. In

Page 124, it says and it is Senator Recto asking, in the Senate, you

said in the first hearing, you delivered personally and with the staff to

a certain Weikang Xu.

“Ms. Bautista: Weikang Xu, it’s 600 million and 18 million.”

MS. BAUTISTA. No. Your Honor, I told you that I delivered for

the first transaction in Solaire.

THE CHAIRMAN. Now, you’re splitting hairs.

MS. BAUTISTA. No, Your Honor.

THE CHAIRMAN. We can cite several instances where you

were very categorical, everything was delivered. Klaro iyong tanong ni

Senator Recto, you delivered personally, then you said, “Weikang Xu,

600 million and 18.”

SEN. RECTO. Mr. Chairman, just to add to that.

THE CHAIRMAN. Yes, Senator Recto.

SEN. RECTO. In the first hearing, yes, I did ask, that is correct.

And the testimony then was she delivered, together with her staff, 600

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million to Weikang Xu in Solaire—just 600, walang $18 million. In the

next hearing, mayroon nang 18 million.

THE CHAIRMAN. Yes.

SEN. RECTO. Okay. So dalawang beses na iyan na hindi

nagsabi nang totoo. And in the first two or three hearings also, wala

silang binabanggit that they delivered money or that Kim Wong picked

up money with them.

THE CHAIRMAN. Yes. They withheld information.

SEN. RECTO. They withheld information. At material itong

bagay na ito dahil hinahanap pa natin iyong 15 to 20 million dollars na

kulang.

THE CHAIRMAN. Yes, sir.

SEN. RECTO. Material itong bagay na ito. Remember, we

already said that 31 to $34 million, puwedeng maibalik pa sa Bank of

Bangladesh. Mr. Kim Wong has returned 4.6; Kim Wong has returned

38 million; Mr. Kim Wong promises to return 450 million. That’s

roughly $15.5 million. So may nawawalang $17 million roughly.

So if I may just want, Mr. Chairman, to follow up on that, based

dito…

THE CHAIRMAN. Go ahead, sir.

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SEN. RECTO. …magsasauli ba kayo ng 17 million—15 to 17

million dollars?

MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, there is no $17 million with us.

Secondly, sir, we’ve been answering all the questions thrown on

us ever since the first hearing and we’ve been answering all the

questions asked of us ever since the beginning. We’ve given the

complete breakdown of this to the AMLC in the beginning, sir, in

February.

And we came into the Senate knowing that at the end of the day,

we will have to take heats for our business because there are a lot of

questions on how we do things. But, however, sir, we’ve always

accepted the fact that this transaction was a mistake. And we will take

the heats because we have to help solve this problem for everybody.

But, sir, we are not keeping money. There is no money with us. The

first, the second hearing, we offered whatever we earned to return.

We were the first one to offer that.

THE CHAIRMAN. So you categorically state that you do not

have in your possession or in your control, because it might not be in

your possession but it might be under your control, 17, 18 or

thereabouts, dollars.

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MR. BAUTISTA. We categorically deny—

THE CHAIRMAN. You’re under oath.

MR. BAUTISTA. Yes, sir—that we do not have 17—

THE CHAIRMAN. We have cited to you that No. 1, you have

been selective in giving information; No. 2, that you’ve been giving

contradictory statements.

You’re under oath. Ang feeling kasi namin, parang niloloko tayo

dito.

Yes, answer.

MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, we’ve been in this business of 18 years

and trust and reputation is the only thing we have. Iyon lang ang

mayroon kami. Hindi ninyo ho kami puwedeng tawaging “manloloko”

dahil ho sa tagal na ho namin sa negosyong ito, that is the last thing

that we can be.

THE CHAIRMAN. Your statements are contradictory. You all

delivered everything to Solaire 18 plus 600 million. Now, you’re

saying, some of them were picked up in your house just because I

cited it. Had I not cited this—kung hindi nakita ito sa transcript, this

contradictory, on the same hearing because one was found in Page

124, while the other is found in Page 170 and we can go on and on.

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You undertook to bring your messenger, is he around?

MS. BAUTISTA. Sorry, Your Honor, on our way, he called he’s

not feeling well so he will not be able to make it today.

THE CHAIRMAN. Lumang tugtugin na iyon.

We have the name—you gave us the name. Could you repeat,

for the record, the name and the address of your messenger? This is

the messenger whom you said delivered the rest of the 600 million to

Solaire to Mr. Weikang Xu.

MS. BAUTISTA. Your Honor, I only said I delivered to Solaire

the first transaction.

THE CHAIRMAN. The first tranche.

MS. BAUTISTA. Yes. And, you know, the—

THE CHAIRMAN. Yes. Wait first. So who delivered the rest?

Your messenger.

MS. BAUTISTA. It was picked up in our house. Your Honor, I

cannot—

THE CHAIRMAN. It was picked up in your house.

MS. BAUTISTA. Yes, in several—

THE CHAIRMAN. The last time you said, it was—

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MS. BAUTISTA. No, Your Honor, in several days—several

days. It was not one delivery. We already gave you all the delivery

receipts.

THE CHAIRMAN. It was picked up in your house.

MS. BAUTISTA. Yes, Your Honor.

SEN. RECTO. Mr. Chairman, parang sinabi rin iyan noong

umpisa na limang daang piso lang ang kinita, tapos naging sampung

milyon and then—maliwanag iyong testimony. I’m sure that the

records will bear us out.

SEN. AQUINO. Mr. Chairman, if I may.

THE CHAIRMAN. Senator Bam.

SEN. AQUINO. This was also my question in the last hearing.

Siguro para malaman na talaga natin iyong katotohanan, for the

record, we can finally state this, magkano po iyong ibinigay ninyo kay

Weikang Xu in cash? For the record. Para klaro na finally kasi paiba-

iba iyong kuwento. Magkano na finally?

MS. BAUTISTA. Your Honor, 600 million ang total na pesos

and $18 million.

SEN. AQUINO. And this was given in how many tranches?

MS. BAUTISTA. Your Honor, we submitted all our receipts.

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SEN. AQUINO. Tell us, for the record.

MS. BAUTISTA. Wait lang. Your Honor, six times…brhg

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Aliccatimbang III-1 April 5, 2016 11:54 a.m. 1

MS. BAUTISTA. …Your Honor, six times.

SEN. AQUINO. The first one is in Solaire.


SEN. AQUINO. Sino ang kasama ninyo sa Solaire? Ikaw ang

nag-deliver, Ms. Salud?


SEN. AQUINO. You were with?

MS. BAUTISTA. My people in the office. Sina Mark Palmares

and some of the messengers.

SEN. AQUINO. And these were the messengers that the

Committee requested you to produce.


SEN. AQUINO. Kanino mo binigay iyong pera?

MS. BAUTISTA. Kay Weikang Xu, Your Honor.

SEN. AQUINO. Siya lang iyong nandoon?

MS. BAUTISTA. Hindi po, Your Honor.

SEN. AQUINO. Sino pa iyong kasama niya?

MS. BAUTISTA. Madami ho silang Chinese. Mr. Wong was

present also.

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SEN. AQUINO. Which you failed to mention the first time we

asked you.

MS. BAUTISTA. Sir, in our line of business, our business is the

beneficiary. Hindi ho namin ano na sabihin lahat ng mga tao.

SEN. AQUINO. Okay. It’s all right.

The second, third, fourth, fifth and sixth tranche was taken in

your home. Kinuha iyon sa bahay ninyo.

MS. BAUTISTA. Yes, Your Honor, he was present.

SEN. AQUINO. Your husband, Michael, and you were present--

MS. BAUTISTA. No, not me.

SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Michael, could you please state for the

record, were you present the second, third, fourth, fifth and sixth

tranche?

MR. BAUTISTA. Yes, Your Honor.

SEN. AQUINO. From Philrem and your cohorts, mayroon pang

kasama?

MR. BAUTISTA. Cohorts?

SEN. AQUINO. Mga kasama ninyo.

MR. BAUTISTA. Opo, iyong tagabuhat.

SEN. AQUINO. Tagabuhat. Is this also the messenger?

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MR. BAUTISTA. Same people, yes, Your Honor.

SEN. AQUINO. Anong pangalan po noong messenger?

MR. BAUTISTA. Iyon po, si Mark Palmares.

SEN. AQUINO. Siya iyong maysakit ngayon.

MR. BAUTISTA. Opo.

SEN. AQUINO. Kung ipapahanap ni Senator Guingona iyong

maysakit, mahahanap niyang maysakit?

MR. BAUTISTA. Opo.

SEN. AQUINO. At kanino ninyo binigay iyong pera?

MR. BAUTISTA. Well, that’s the thing, sir. Yes, I and Kim

Wong was there and he said—Weikang Xu was there—and they signed

all the receipts.

SEN. AQUINO. So just to clarify, the second, third, fourth, fifth

and sixth tranche, kasama si Weikang Xu, may ibang kasamang

Chinese at kasama si Mr. Wong.


SEN. AQUINO. Did he enter your house?

MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, it was just done by the door.

SEN. AQUINO. Just done by the door. And the total is 600

million and $18 million.

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MR. BAUTISTA. Yes, sir. We’ve furnished the Committee with

the breakdown of all the deliveries.

SEN. AQUINO. And, Mr. Wong, you are saying, “Hindi totoo

iyan.” Magkano iyong binigay sa inyo ng Philrem?

MR. WONG. Saan po?

SEN. AQUINO. Dito, Mr. Wong. Sabi kasi nila, six tranches, six

times kayo nagkita. Iyong unang beses, sa Solaire; iyong limang

beses, sa bahay po nila. Ang total na binigay sa inyo ni Weikang Xu is

$18 million and P600 million.

Yes, Mr. Bautista.

MR. BAUTISTA. I need to clarify that. He was there for a few

days. I was gonna tell you—remember, you asked me, “Which days

were he there?” I said, “I would have to check.” I think three of those

days, he was with the pick-up.

SEN. AQUINO. I would like to ask the Committee to check that

in the records. If I’m not mistaken, they answered that Mr. Wong was

present in all of the tranches.

Mr. Chairman, could we have the Committee checked that?

THE CHAIRMAN. Yes. We’ll have that checked.

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SEN. AQUINO. Mr. Wong, magkano po iyong naibigay sa inyo

ng Philrem?

MR. WONG. Iyong first ho, hindi ba, 100 million sa Solaire,

February 5. Tapos iyong four times—three times ho pumunta ako sa

bahay nila.

SEN. AQUINO. So, four times lang kayo?

MR. WONG. Hindi. Three times ho.

SEN. AQUINO. Three total times.

MR. WONG. Opo.

SEN. AQUINO. And, Mr. Bautista, you are saying now, there

were three other times na hindi kasama si Mr. Wong.

MR. WONG. Four times ho. Sorry po. Your Honor, sorry po.

Four times sa bahay po. Sorry po.

SEN. AQUINO. Four times sa bahay, isang beses sa Solaire,

Mr. Wong.

THE CHAIRMAN. Sandali lang. Let me interject. This is the

transcript. Ang tanong ninyo po kung Mr. Kim Wong was present in all

deliveries:

“Senator Aquino:--Page 170—“Okay. So, Mr. Kim Wong was

present in all of the deliveries in cash?”

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“Ms. Bautista: Yes, Your Honor.”

SEN. AQUINO. So, first of all, nagkamali ba kayo dito o paiba-

iba na naman iyong kuwento?

MS. BAUTISTA. Your Honor, hindi. We’re just clarifying now,

specifically now.

SEN. AQUINO. So nagkamali kayo the last time?

THE CHAIRMAN. You’re contradicting yourself.

MS. BAUTISTA. No. Your Honor, we’re just clarifying. Because

when you asked kung nandoon siya o kung nag-deliver kami—

SEN. AQUINO. Mr. Chairman, what was my question? Could

you read back my question, please?

THE CHAIRMAN. It says, “Senator Aquino: Okay. So, was Mr.

Kim Wong present in all of the deliveries of cash?”

SEN. AQUINO. “Was Mr. Kim Wong present in all deliveries of

cash?” Iyon po iyong nasa transcript. Iyon po iyong pagkakaalala ko

doon sa tanong ko. And Ms. Bautista’s answer was?

THE CHAIRMAN. “Yes, Your Honor.”

SEN. AQUINO. “Yes, Your Honor.”

So are you saying na nagkamali kayo in this previous statement?

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MS. BAUTISTA. Yes, Your Honor, because I was not there in all

the deliveries.

SEN. AQUINO. Ah. For your deliveries, Mr. Kim Wong was

present all the time.

MS. BAUTISTA. Yes, which was in Solaire.

SEN. AQUINO. Which was only once, right? But I said, “in all

the deliveries.” We were talking about multiple deliveries.

MS. BAUTISTA. Because, Your Honor, the others were picked

up at home.

SEN. AQUINO. So hindi siya kasama sa all the deliveries kasi

pick-up siya, hindi delivery? Alam mo, every hearing ganito iyong

usapan natin.

THE CHAIRMAN. May I? May I interject?

SEN. AQUINO. Yes, Mr. Chairman.

THE CHAIRMAN. In Page 132, Senator Recto asked Mr.

Bautista. This is about the deliveries:

“They were together?”

“Yes, sir.”

Tanong ni Senator Recto: “So in all the deliveries, they were

together?”

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“Mr. Bautista: Yes, sir.”

SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Kinaklaro na po natin for the final time.

First of all, you know, your attorney should be guiding you better

to tell the truth. What is that oath? “To tell the truth, the whole truth

and nothing but the truth.” Not the partial truth. I mean, I’m sure it’s

not the partial truth. It’s the whole truth. Iyon po iyong oath natin

from the beginning. Anyway, every hearing nag-iiba po iyong

kuwento. And it’s very bothersome for me that every hearing paiba-

iba po iyong kuwento. So, klaruhin na po natin finally.

According to you, there were six times na nagka-exchange ng

pera. Yes. For the record, please, state that.


SEN. AQUINO. The first time was in Solaire.


SEN. AQUINO. Nandoon si Ms. Salud, iyong mga kasamahan sa

Philrem and si Mr. Wong at si Mr. Weikang Xu.


SEN. AQUINO. At nagbigay ka ng P100 million.

MS. BAUTISTA. Ninety million pesos, Your Honor, and

$500,000.

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SEN. AQUINO. Mr. Wong, do you concur? Totoo po ba iyon?

Was it P90 million and $500,000 in Solaire?

MR. WONG. Hindi totoo po. Eighty million pesos po. Wala

hong 500,000.

SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Maglilista ako. Balanse ng P10 million

and—magkano iyong dollars na binigay po sa inyo?

MR. WONG. Wala po.

SEN. AQUINO. Wala. Okay.

The second time was in your home, Mr. Bautista.


SEN. AQUINO. Magkano po iyong binigay ninyo?

MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, P110 million and $3 million.

SEN. AQUINO. Was Mr. Wong present?

MR. BAUTISTA. Yes, sir. Sir, the whole document list, I think

you already have a copy.

SEN. AQUINO. Yes. But I want to cross reference it with Mr.

Wong, for the record.

So, Mr. Wong, pangalawang beses daw po, P110 million, US$3

million. Totoo po ba iyon?

MR. WONG. Iyong P100 million--

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SEN. AQUINO. One hundred ten million pesos (P110 million).

MR. WONG. One hundred million lang po. At saka $3 million,

totoo po iyon.

SEN. AQUINO. Totoo iyon. So may balanse ka pa ng 10

million.

Third time, kasama po si Mr. Wong, Mr. Bautista?

MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, P100 million and $3 million.

SEN. AQUINO. Iyong pangatlong beses po. Third time na ito,

sir, same amounts.

One hundred million pesos, three million dollars, noong

pangatlong beses. Mr. Wong?

MR. WONG. Saan po iyon tinanggap?

SEN. AQUINO. Sa bahay po nila. Iyong pangatlong beses daw

po.

MR. WONG. Hindi po totoo iyon. Kasi three million, hindi ba,

tinanggap at saka $2 million. Hindi po totoo iyon.

SEN. AQUINO. So itong third time, wala pong binigay na

dollars sa inyo, Mr. Wong?

MR. WONG. Sorry, sir. One hundred ba at saka two million?

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SEN. AQUINO. No. Mr. Bautista, P100 million and $3 million,

Mr. Bautista?


SEN. AQUINO. Okay.

One hundred million pesos, $3 million, Mr. Wong.

MR. WONG. Sa bahay po?

SEN. AQUINO. Yes. Third time.

MR. WONG. Hindi po totoo iyon. Wala po.

SEN. AQUINO. Noong pangatlong beses pumunta ka sa bahay

nila, walang binigay sa iyong pera?

MR. WONG. Hindi ba iyong una po, 100 million--

SEN. AQUINO. Sa Solaire.

MR. WONG. Hindi. Sa bahay po. One hundred million at saka

$3 million.

SEN. AQUINO. Okay.

MR. WONG. Iyong second time…/alicc

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CFDriz IV-1 April 5, 2016 12:04 p.m. 1

MR. WONG. …iyong second time po 100 million at saka $2

million lang po.

SEN. AQUINO. Okay. So may balance ka ng $1 million this

time?

Okay. And then there was one more time that Mr. Wong—So the

fourth time nagkaroon ng exchange of cash, Mr. Bautista, kasama ba

si Mr. Wong?

MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, you know, we’ve been—we’ve given all our

records. All the receipts are with you. Sir, we keep on going,

continuing with this. Wala na ho kaming matitira sa amin ho.

SEN. AQUINO. Mr. Bautista, paiba-iba kasi iyong point mo.

MR. BAUTISTA. You know, it’s not true. She answered; nalito.

I don’t know.

SEN. AQUINO. So nalito.

MR. BAUTISTA. You know, sir, we delivered everything. No

money is with us. We are in this business of delivering—

SEN. AQUINO. I‘m not asking if you have money or not. I’m

cross-referencing kung pareho kayo ng kwento ni Mr. Wong

MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, from the beginning there’s already a

difference and it will just continue. But I will stand my ground, we

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delivered everything. Well, we delivered once and everything was

picked up in our house.

SEN. AQUINO. Mr. Bautista, answer the question. Iyong fourth

time, magkano po iyong dineliver (deliver) ninyo kay Mr. Wong?

Mr. Wong, iyong pang-apat na beses na may delivery sa inyo,

magkano po iyong pang-apat na beses?

MR. WONG. Hindi po deliver, sir.

SEN. AQUINO. Pick-up.

MR. WONG. Kinuha ko po.

SEN. AQUINO. Iyong pangatlong pick-up sa kanilang bahay

magkano po?

MR. WONG. One hundred million pesos.

SEN. AQUINO. And $3 million?

MR. MR. WONG. Hindi po, wala po iyon. Wala po iyon.

SEN. AQUINO. So nung pangatlong beses wala kang dollars na

kinuha mula kina Mr. Bautista?

MR. WONG. Wala na po.

SEN. AQUINO. Do you agree, Mr. Bautista?

MR. BAUTISTA. No, I deny that, sir.

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SEN. AQUINO. Okay. That’s why I am asking you. Kaya ko

tinatanong sa inyo. Iyong fifth and sixth time, wala na si Mr. Wong?

MR. BAUTISTA. Wala ho siya, iyong tao lang ho nila ang

kumuha.

SEN. AQUINO. Sino po iyong tao nila na kumuha?

MR. BAUTISTA. Supposedly Weikang Xu was there because the

document was there signed.

SEN. AQUINO. Hindi mo kilala iyong taong kumuha nung pera?

MR. BAUTISTA. Okay. Sir, I was there. I watched them load

the funds and then I asked for the receipt and it was just reached out

to me.

SEN. AQUINO. Binigyan ka ng resibo ni Mr. Weikang Xu?

MR. BAUTISTA. We gave it to him and then he signed and he

returned it—

SEN. AQUINO. So si Mr. Weikang Xu sinasabi ninyo was

present in all of the six transactions?


SEN. AQUINO. And the dates of these transactions you’ve

given to the Committee already?


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SEN. AQUINO. And we will cross reference if Mr. Weikang Xu

was indeed still in the Philippines during that time?


SEN. AQUINO. Apart from Mr. Weikang Xu, sino pa po iyong

kasama?

MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, they would come in two cars, sometimes

three cars, a few people, iyong bodyguards, drivers.

SEN. AQUINO. Mr. Wong--I am sorry for taking the time of the

Chairman.

MR. WONG. Your Honor.

SEN. AQUINO. Sa pagkakaalam ba ninyo kumuha rin si Mr.

Weikang Xu ng pera mula sa bahay ng mga Bautista?

MR. WONG. Hindi ko po alam. Sa pagka-alam ko po, wala po.

SEN. AQUINO. Kanino ibibigay ni Mr. Weikang—Si Mr. Weikang

Xu ay player ninyo, hindi ba? Sa Eastern Hawaii?

MR. WONG. Opo.

SEN. AQUINO. And iyong perang iyan usually pinapasok niya

sa inyo?

MR. WONG. Hindi po. Si Gao ho ang head niya. Kasi sa casino

po may mga head iyan eh.

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SEN. AQUINO. Okay.

MR. WONG. So si Gao ang head, siya po ang magbibigay kung

kanino ipapalaro. Si Weikang Xu hindi po siya head.

SEN. AQUINO. So realistic ba iyong siya iyong kukuha ng pera

mismo o baka si Mr. Gao iyong kumuha sa kanila?

MR. WONG. Hindi ko po alam. Palagay ko—Hindi ko po alam.

SEN. AQUINO. Hindi ninyo alam?

MR. WONG. Hindi ko po alam.

SEN. AQUINO. So from Philrem’s point of view, four times with

Mr. Wong, two times with Weikang Xu. And you are correcting your

previous statements?

MR. BAUTISTA. –-[Inaudible]

SEN. RECTO. Mr. Chairman, if I may just follow up—

THE CHAIRMAN. Yes, Senator Recto.

SEN. RECTO. With the permission of the Chair.

So in effect, Mr. Bautista, if you’re saying the money is not with

you, and you claim that you gave this to Mr. Weikang Xu, then the

possibility, and since Mr. Wong and Weikang Xu were together, then

the money is with him. That’s what you are saying or with Weikang

Xu?

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MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, we were asked to deliver—Well, the funds

were supposedly for Weikang Xu and in four of those times, one was

delivered, three was picked up, Mr. Wong was there and two—

SEN. RECTO. So it’s not with you, it’s with them.

MR. BAUTISTA. Yes, sir. There’s no money with us.

SEN. RECTO. Okay, let me continue now. Who ordered you to

give it to Weikang Xu?

MR. BAUTISTA. All the details came from the branch manager.

SEN. RECTO. Okay. Can we ask the branch manager?

Is it true that you ordered Mr. Bautista to deliver all these

amounts of money, 600 million and $18 million to Weikang Xu?

MS. DEGUITO. Sir, in the first Senate hearing, I already

informed you I don’t know Weikang Xu.

SEN. RECTO. So it is not true that you told Concon Baustista or

Philrem to deliver this money to Weikang Xu, it is not true?

MS. DEGUITO. What I have received--to transfer iyong funds

lang po. Iyon lang iyong instruction sa akin. As to how—

SEN. RECTO. Meaning to say, to Philrem?

MS. DEGUITO. Opo.

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SEN. RECTO. So from the branch lang, iyong papel lang ninyo,

is what you are saying is, the accounts—the four accounts putting that

money to Wilson Go and go to Philrem. That’s basically it.

MS. DEGUITO. Yes, that’s what I exactly told you also in the

executive session.

SEN. RECTO. Yes. So you had no instructions to them to

deliver this money to Weikang Xu?

MS. DEGUITO. Yes, Your Honor.

SEN. RECTO. Okay. But what is clear is $81 million went into

your account, Philrem, okay?

Next point. It is clear $61 million you exchanged with RCBC?


SEN. RECTO. Correct? Okay. And $20 million, you did not

exchange with RCBC, is that correct? So 81 pumasok sa inyo, 61

nilagay ninyo sa RCBC to exchange, right?

MR. BAUTISTA. A portion of the difference, sir, I bought for

ourselves for our own transactions. That would be also included in the

documents that we provided you.

SEN. RECTO. You’ve not provided me any document.

MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, it was delivered to the ComSec.

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SEN. RECTO. Okay, we’ll take a look at that. Nevertheless,

what about iyong Hong Kong-based company na YXR Trading, that

went to Hong Kong, that money?

MR. BAUTISTA. Yes, sir.

SEN. RECTO. One point five million.

MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, just to clarify. That transaction is separate

from this 81 million transaction. It just happened to be also in RCBC

that it was sent out using our account to Hong Kong but—

SEN. RECTO. You’re claiming, you’re claiming. But—

Yes, continue.

MR. BAUTISTA. Okay. So how we operate, sir, is like this.

We maintain accounts in all banks in Manila, all, plus what we have in

our office of cash. If you ask me how much my dollar position is, I

would give you a total figure of how much is my balance plus what I

have in cash. It’s like a basket. So when we make a delivery, we

actually get it from different places and not only from where it came in

because once I buy dollars from—Well, once the dollar is credited to

our RCBC account, it now becomes our committed transaction. But

where we get the dollars to deliver is not necessarily from RCBC.

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SEN. RECTO. I understand all of these, Michael. Ulitin ko lang

ha. What is clear is, $80 million went into your account? Okay. And

you knew that this money was coming into your account?

MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, it was called when it came.

SEN. RECTO. Yes.

MR. BAUTISTA. Not from before.

SEN. RECTO. Okay. So you did not know before? You were

not expecting it?

MR. BAUTISTA. No, sir.

SEN. RECTO. And you are claiming that Ms. Deguito told you

what to do with the $80 million?


SEN. RECTO. At hindi kayo nagtaka na pinawi-withdraw sa

inyo—Can you imagine your testimony, Mr. Concon, P600 million

delivering in a casino, first night a hundred million—Do you confirm

you had dinner with Mr. Wong and Ms. Deguito pala in Solaire?


SEN. RECTO. So you confirm…/cfd

.

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MPMENDOZA V-1 April 5, 2016 12:14 p.m. 1

SEN. RECTO. …So you confirm that you all met together—Mr.

Wong, you and Ms. Deguito?

MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, we had dinner.

SEN. RECTO. Yes. That was when, February 5?

MR. BAUTISTA. Yes, sir. After the delivery, he invited us to

dinner.

SEN. RECTO. So you were with Ms. Salud Bautista in the first

delivery?


SEN. RECTO. Ms. Salud Bautista said earlier that she made the

first delivery, she didn’t mention that she was with you. She did not?

MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, but—

SEN. RECTO. So anyway, the point is this, so you were all

together, Michael…

MR. BAUTISTA. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

SEN. RECTO. …Mr. Kim Wong and Ms. Deguito.

Ms. Deguito, do you confirm that you were in a dinner?

MS. DEGUITO. Yes, sir. I would frequent naman po Solaire

whenever Sir Kim will ask me to.

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SEN. RECTO. Correct. Okay. And that was on February 5 in

the evening?


SEN. RECTO. When the first transaction took place, right?

Okay.

Do you confirm the statement of Kim Wong also that you

delivered 20 million to him?

MS. DEGUITO. Sir, I saw kasi the last hearing po. I confirm

that that is my car but I did not deliver anything. Mr. Kim Wong was

saying he got 100 million.

SEN. RECTO. Mr. Kim Wong said 80 from Salud…

MS. DEGUITO. Opo.

SEN. RECTO. …and 20, it would appear, from Mr. Simon(?)—

MS. DEGUITO. Honestly, Your Honor, ayaw ko na din sanang

makisali doon as to total kasi “he said, she said.” But I will just tell

you po, I did not deliver anything in Solaire. I just went there.

SEN. RECTO. Okay. Kilala ninyo—you know, I’ll have to get

into details now on relationships as well, with the permission of the

Chair.

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So Ms. Deguito, you were in a dinner with Concon and Mr. Wong.

Concon claims that you instructed him to deliver to Weikang Xu, right?

And you’re claiming that you never instructed him. Did you instruct

him to deliver the money to Kim Wong?

MS. DEGUITO. Sir, my instructions were just within the bank

transactions. As to where the funds will go, on how it will be delivered,

I have no …

SEN. RECTO. So in that dinner in Solaire—

MS. DEGUITO. Nag-chance lang po. I went there, they were

there and Sir Kim asked us to have dinner together.

SEN. RECTO. So biglaan, nag-chance lang?

MS. DEGUITO. Wala po. Hindi po siya nakaplano.

SEN. RECTO. In that night na pumasok iyong $80 million or at

least the first tranche which is 22 million, if my records are correct,

nag-deliver ng 100 million doon—80 plus 20—si Ms. Salud and

conveniently she left out in our first hearing the name of Kim Wong

and did not mention the presence of Concon Bautista until it was

revealed in the last hearing, the third hearing, that Mr. Wong was

present in all the deliveries and pick-ups and in this case the first

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delivery in Solaire, there was even a dinner after in a Korean

restaurant.

Nagkataon lang nandoon ka?

MS. DEGUITO. Yes, sir. Malimit naman po akong pumupunta

sa Solaire pag pinapatawag ako ni Sir Kim.

SEN. RECTO. So pinatawag ka that night?

MS. DEGUITO. Yes, sir, that night.

SEN. RECTO. Okay. That night, nalaman mo ba na may isang

daang milyon na delivery?

MS. DEGUITO. I have no idea, sir.

SEN. RECTO. You have no idea. Pero pinatawag ka?

MS. DEGUITO. Yes, sir.

SEN. RECTO. Ano ang pinag-usapan ninyo, bakit ka pinatawag?

MS. DEGUITO. Wala po. Iyong casual, iyong normal na pinag-

uusapan.

SEN. RECTO. Matagal mo nang kilala si Mr. Bautista?

MS. DEGUITO. Yes po. Simula po noong teller pa ako sa

bangko.

SEN. RECTO. So how many years?

MS. DEGUITO. Mga 15 years, 16 years.

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SEN. RECTO. Fifteen years?

MS. DEGUITO. Opo.

SEN. RECTO. Okay. Question, who instructed you as branch

manager naman to deal with Philrem, to transfer the amount of money

of William Go in his account to Philrem?

MS. DEGUITO. Sir Kim po asked to look for someone that could

assist them—I mean the accounts I am saying, to have it converted to

peso, iyong mga dollars po.

SEN. RECTO. Okay. And you recommended Philrem?

MS. DEGUITO. Oo, because I know he knows Concon.

SEN. RECTO. Because alam mo na kilala niya si Concon?

MS. DEGUITO. Opo. Para at least whenever there is—

kumbaga, kung may mga kailangan siyang iklaro regarding …

SEN. RECTO. Did you every mention to Concon naman this

$80 million you guys were dealing with Kim Wong? Did you ever

mention that to Concon? When you asked him—when you asked

Philrem na, “Uy, sige, kayo na ang mag-convert nito into pesos, kayo

na iyong middle agent dito, one way or the other.” Hindi ba? Okay.

So nabanggit mo ba—o did you mention to Concon Bautista that,

“Uy, kayo ang nag-uusap dito—si Kim Wong, ikaw at si Philrem”?

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MS. DEGUITO. As far as I can remember, opo. Kasi nga

magkakilala naman sila.

SEN. RECTO. Parang ganoon, magkakakilala sila?

MS. DEGUITO. Opo.

SEN. RECTO. Okay. So maliwanag. And then you knew that

they could have the cash?

MS. DEGUITO. Sorry po?

SEN. RECTO. And that you knew Philrem could be able to get

the cash?

MS. DEGUITO. As to iyong cash delivery, sir, I have no idea on

that. Basta ang instructions lang po sa akin is just to transfer the

funds.

SEN. RECTO. Okay. So let me go back to Philrem.

Philrem, did you know that you were dealing—Well, you were

dealing with Ms. Deguito and you know each other, you’ve been

working for a long time, she never told you that you guys were dealing

with Kim Wong also?

MR. BAUTISTA. No, sir. She didn’t mention it was Kim.

SEN. RECTO. So you just believed, face value, to Weikang Xu,

parang ganoon?

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MR. BAUTISTA. No, sir. The transaction came from an RCBC

account, supposedly William Go’s account. So—

SEN. RECTO. So what?

MR. BAUTISTA. She didn’t say that it was Kim’s transaction.

SEN. RECTO. Yes. But—okay. If you are saying that—did you

ever talk to William Go?


SEN. RECTO. Do you know William Go?


SEN. RECTO. You never met him before?

MR. BAUTISTA. Never, sir.

SEN. RECTO. Okay. So you believed the branch manager and

not the owner of the account, William Go?


SEN. RECTO. Paano kung hinanap ni William Go iyong pera sa

inyo at sinabi sa inyo, “Uy, bakit mo diniliver (deliver) iyan diyan, wala

naman akong utos na ganyan.” Is that how you do business?

MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, as I was explaining earlier, we’ve been

doing this for 18 years. The safest transaction you can ever do is with

the branch manager kasi hindi ka matatagpuan, siya ang magki-credit

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sa iyo, siya ang magde-debit ng account mo. That’s the safest

transaction …

SEN. RECTO. Okay. So you said that you never knew. But then

you delivered the hundred million to Weikang Xu with Mr. Kim Wong

and you had dinner that night. So that was the first time you knew?

MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, when we delivered the cash and he was

there, his explanation was he was the interpreter of the players. That

was the only—we didn’t know it was his transaction. All he mentioned

was there was his player, they’re getting their money—

SEN. RECTO. Gaano katagal na kayong magkakilala?

MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, socially, we would bumped into each other

because of common friends.

SEN. RECTO. Okay. You never had business before?

MR. BAUTISTA. Never, sir.

SEN. RECTO. Okay. And then after that, he became your visitor

at home?

MR. BAUTISTA. To pick up the money, sir.

SEN. RECTO. Okay. Was Mr. Weikang Xu always with him in

picking up the money?


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SEN. RECTO. Always?


SEN. RECTO. Okay. In all the transactions?


SEN. RECTO. And you claimed that you gave a total of six

hundred and eighteen million dollars?


SEN. RECTO. So in effect, if he claims that he did not receive

this 18 million, it’s either with you or with him? Parang ganoon iyon,

hindi ba?


SEN. RECTO. Okay. And you’re saying for this transaction, you

made ₱10 million, that’s it?

MR. BAUTISTA. Ten million four seventy-four something.

SEN. RECTO. Okay. So that’s your claim, that’s what you’re

saying?


SEN. RECTO. Okay. Where did you get the cash?

MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, if you will check the diagram that we

submitted to you, sir—Just to explain to you, sir—I was explaining to

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you earlier. So we actually maintain a lot of cash in our own vaults.

And when we have a big delivery, we would use whatever we have or

source it from the banks or from other sources. And this is something

we do regularly. We keep the cash because we need it regularly. And

the sources of our notes are from basically everywhere—from the

banks, from pawnshops, from different institutions. There are certain

cases where the banks would call us, let’s say, a small branch where

we banked with and say, “Hey! There is a withdrawal here for some

dollars. Can you deposit some dollars to us?” “Okay.” I mean, we

would deposit to our account so that that branch would be able to

serve a client.

On the other end, there would be a branch that would say that—

SEN. RECTO. Mr. Concon, my question is simple.

Where did you get the cash? Can you answer the question? For

example, are you claiming that you had in your vault—Is that your

testimony now, that you did not get that from the bank? …/mpm

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JmBaisa VI-1 April 5, 2016 12:24 p.m. 1

SEN. RECTO. …that you did not get that from the bank?

MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, we got it from all—from banks, from—

SEN. RECTO. No. Name of the banks.

MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, I don’t think I want to name you the bank

because—I mean—

SEN. RECTO. Why not? Why, you refuse to cooperate with the

Committee?

MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, we have been cooperating since the first

day.

SEN. RECTO. No, but you have been contradicting yourself. In

the first day, Michael, you were not even here. I don’t know if you

were hiding, but your wife was here.

MR. BAUTISTA. Yes, sir. I wasn’t invited in the first meeting.

SEN. RECTO. Okay. Your wife was here—You were invited

verbally according to the Chairman of the Committee.

THE CHAIRMAN. Senator Osmeña gave word to Ms. Salud for

you to come over.

SEN. RECTO. Okay. Anyway, let’s move on. In the first

hearing, there was no mention of $18 million; there was no mention of

Kim Wong with Ms. Salud and that she made it appear to the

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Committee that all the deliveries were in Solaire and that she did the

first delivery and that your messengers did not succeed in deliveries.

That’s how it appeared to me, at least. Okay?

In the second hearing—I have no question yet—in the second

hearing, mayroon nang biglang $18 million, and then always it was Ms.

Deguito giving the instructions, which she denies right now, that she

never gave any instructions, and you were also saying that she gave

the instruction for you to deliver the money to Eastern Hawaii Leisure

Corporation.

Yes, that’s the question now.


SEN. RECTO. Ms. Deguito told you to deliver P1 billion

telegraphic transfer to Eastern Hawaii Leisure Corporation through a

PNB, Cagayan Branch.


SEN. RECTO. She gave that instruction?

MS. BAUTISTA. Yes. Your Honor, can I—?

SEN. RECTO. Did you know who the owner was of Eastern

Hawaii?

MS. BAUTISTA. No, Your Honor.

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Your Honor, question.

SEN. RECTO. No, you cannot ask a question.

MS. BAUTISTA. Not question, to clarify lang.

SEN. RECTO. Okay. If you want to clarify, you may.

MS. BAUTISTA. Okay, because—

SEN. RECTO. And please address the Chair.

MS. BAUTISTA. May I clarify, Mr. Chair?

SEN. RECTO. Mr. Chairman. You have to address the Chair.

Yes, please continue, with the permission of the Chair.

THE CHAIRMAN. Yes. Continue, please.

MS. BAUTISTA. Okay. No. Your Honor, because you were

saying all these things that I was excluding on my information and all,

Your Honor, because my legal—I already submitted my STR. I was

advised that my STR cannot actually be revealed in public because I

can be criminally liable. That’s why I want to say a lot of things but—

SEN. RECTO. What is an STR?

MS. BAUTISTA. That’s the Suspicious Transaction Report.

SEN. RECTO. Okay.

MS. BAUTISTA. Since I am a covered institution, they told me

that I cannot say so many things about the transactions specifically.

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SEN. RECTO. So do you want to have an executive session?

MS. BAUTISTA. We requested twice, Your Honor.

SEN. RECTO. O, sige. So maybe that can be for consideration

by the Committee.

But just let me follow up. So you were saying that you were

instructed by Ms. Deguito to send the money to Eastern Hawaii Leisure

Corporation, that’s roughly P1 billion?


SEN. RECTO. Okay. And that you were instructed to send the

money through BDO one billion to Solaire?

MS. BAUTISTA. One point three six five billion, Your Honor.

SEN. RECTO. Okay. And then, what other banks? Iyon lang

ba? That’s it?

MS. BAUTISTA. Iyon lang po, Your Honor.

SEN. RECTO. Iyong Solaire. And then to Centurytex Trading

also?

MS. BAUTISTA. Your Honor, that was the first transaction. The

first transaction was merely—

SEN. RECTO. Okay, please explain the transaction.

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MS. BAUTISTA. Okay. The first transaction was merely a trade,

and then—

SEN. RECTO. What does that mean, merely a trade?

MS. BAUTISTA. Trade, meaning, I will buy their dollars and sell

to Treasury—to RCBC Treasury to convert it into pesos. So I credited

their account. And then, she said that the fund is needed to be

transferred to BDO Bloomberry account and needed cash, so I helped

source the cash and I made sure that the transaction would go to BDO

as clear funds. It cannot be a check; it cannot be a manager’s check

because it will go through clearing, so it has to be clear fund. So I

made that happen that day.

SEN. RECTO. So that’s not part of what you delivered, 100

million, that went through the bank?

MS. BAUTISTA. What do you mean, sir? Because I treat it as a

transaction because it was—

SEN. RECTO. Okay. And that also was instructed by Ms.

Deguito?


SEN. RECTO. Ms. Deguito, do you confirm any and all of

these?

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MS. DEGUITO. Sir, on the cash, wala po akong alam doon.

Pero iyong sinasabi niya na to transfer to Bloomberry and—

SEN. RECTO. Yes. Eastern Hawaii.

MS. DEGUITO. Yeah. Parang may ganoon. I remember having

instructed by Sir Kim to have those accounts be credited by certain

amounts.

SEN. RECTO. Okay. So Kim instructed you?

MS. DEGUITO. Opo.

SEN. RECTO. And you instructed them?

MS. DEGUITO. Yes po.

SEN. RECTO. Okay. Would you know anything, Ms. Deguito,

kung nabigay ba talaga kay Weikang Xu iyong $17-18 million?

MS. DEGUITO. Sir, I have no idea.

SEN. RECTO. You have no idea.

And, Ms. Deguito, for all of this work, walang pinangako sa iyo?

MS. DEGUITO. Iyong ADB po na peso.

SEN. RECTO. You have—

MS. DEGUITO. Iyon lang po iyong pinramis (promise) sa akin,

that I will get—

SEN. RECTO. Walang commission whatsoever?

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MS. DEGUITO. Sir, wala po. I told you that already, that in the

name of my children, I did not get anything, even a single cent.

SEN. RECTO. Okay. Including na pangako?

MS. DEGUITO. Mayroon naman pong pangako, iyon nga, iyong

madadagdagan iyong balance ko in the bank.

SEN. RECTO. Iyong ADB lang. Okay. And ikaw ang nag-decide

na PhilRem. Aside from being the friend of Kim Wong and Concon

Bautista of PhilRem, bakit sila mismo? Dahil malaking kumpanya sila,

kayang-kaya nilang i-cash itong mga ito? Ganoon ba iyon?

MS. DEGUITO. Matagal ko na po silang kilala. And most of the

clients, kilala rin nila. So iyong level po ng comfortability nandoon na

kasi iyong mga valued clients din naman in the bank—that I have in

the branch—

SEN. RECTO. That day na nag-dinner kayo sa Solaire, hindi ka

nagtaka na when you were having dinner na Mr. Kim Wong, Concon

and you together?

MS. DEGUITO. Hindi po.

SEN. RECTO. And that the first transaction, natuloy?

MS. DEGUITO. Hindi po.

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SEN. RECTO. Hindi. Okay. Then, let me continue, Ms. Bautista

and Mr. Concon Bautista.

You had several transactions with the RCBC—$61 million

pinalitan ninyo, hindi ba, on the dates of February 5, February 9 and

February 10? Parang minamadali ninyong i-encash or mailipat iyong

pera, it would appear. And all of these were instructed again by Ms.

Deguito, that’s what you’re saying, you confirm that?

MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, when we first got the call, they even

wanted to do it in one day—to do the—We said we cannot, we have to

do it in tranches. And you know, sir, we really wanted to—I mean,

when we do something, we do it ano.

SEN. RECTO. Okay. And then, mayroon kayong transaction din

with Awal, $10 million, that did not go through RCBC, that did not find

its way in the casino. You had the transaction with an affiliate, I

suppose, WeRQuick, $1.65 million.

MS. BAUTISTA. Yes, Your Honor, it’s a different transaction.

As we have said how we operate our system.

SEN. RECTO. But you confirm there was a transaction on

February 5 as well?

MS. BAUTISTA. Feb. 5, with whom, sir?

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SEN. RECTO. AWAL and WeRQuick, mga $11.6 million din iyon.

MS. BAUTISTA. February 5?

SEN. RECTO. Oo.

MS. BAUTISTA. I have to check, Your Honor, parang—

SEN. RECTO. Oo. And then, on February 9, you had an YXR

Trading, $1.5 million through Hong Kong account.

MS. BAUTISTA. Yes, sir. That’s a different transaction.

SEN. RECTO. Yes. But, you know, looking at these, all of these

happened February 5 to 10. These transactions were done… /jmb

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CMNERY VII-1 April 5, 2016 12:34 p.m. 1

SEN. RECTO. …these transactions were done. We’re looking

for the $20 million also. And there were series of transactions within

these dates na hindi RCBC naman ang kausap ninyo, iba. It would

appear. Then various withdrawals were made. Okay. We’re looking

for these $20 million.

Okay. So, to continue—

Ms. Deguito, ano naman iyong relationship ninyo with William

Go? May negosyo ba kayo?

MS. DEGUITO. Sir, no.

SEN. RECTO. Iyon sinasabing rediscounting?

MS. DEGUITO. I have no idea on that, Your Honor.

SEN. RECTO. You have no idea on that.

Mr. William Go, didn’t you testify that you had something to do

with rediscounting with Ms. Deguito?

MR. W. GO. Yes, Your Honor. As I’ve said si Mr. Alan Peñalosa

ang kausap ko sa East West Bank. Siya ang binibigyan ko ng tseke na

for rediscounting.

SEN. RECTO. Ano naman iyong relationship ni Peñalosa kay

Deguito sa rediscounting?

MR. W. GO. Hindi ko po alam. Basta kay Mr. Peñalosa ko

binibigay—

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SEN. RECTO. So only with Mr. Peñalosa?

MR. W. GO. I do the rediscounting with Mr. Peñalosa.

SEN. RECTO. And then si Peñalosa and Deguito came from—

MR. W. GO. Same bank before… EastWest Bank.

SEN. RECTO. Same bank before. And they know each other?

MR. W. GO. They know each other.

SEN. RECTO. You know each other, Maia?


SEN. RECTO. Do you have business with Mr. Peñalosa?

MS. DEGUITO. No, Your Honor.

SEN. RECTO. You never did rediscounting with him?

MS. DEGUITO. Never.

SEN. RECTO. You never transacted with him?

MS. DEGUITO. Never, Your Honor.

SEN. RECTO. Even if we call him and ask him?

MS. DEGUITO. I’m sorry?

SEN. RECTO. Even if we call him and ask him, he will confirm

that you don’t have any business transaction?


SEN. RECTO. Okay. One question lang with the AMLC.

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Ms. Julia Abad, we looked at the documents that you submitted

to the Committee, you’ve frozen many accounts. Until today, you’ve

never frozen an account of Philrem?

MS. ABAD. As far as the Philrem accounts are concerned, Your

Honor, I think there are two accounts frozen?

SEN. RECTO. In RCBC?

MS. ABAD. With RCBC, Your Honor.

SEN. RECTO. Magkano iyong pera in those accounts?

MS. ABAD. Let me just check my records, Your Honor.

SEN. RECTO. Yeah.

Anything significant?

I would be winding up also, Mr. Chairman, just last two points na

lang. I don’t want to take much time of the Committee as well.

Hindi naman $18 million?

MS. ABAD. Definitely not, Your Honor.

SEN. RECTO. One million dollars?

MS. ABAD. Let me just check my records, Your Honor.

SEN. RECTO. Okay. So all their accounts in RCBC not—hindi

rin? Only two.

MS. ABAD. If I’m not mistaken, Your Honor, just the accounts

that were used in transferring these funds, Your Honor.

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SEN. RECTO. Okay. So kung zero balance iyan, na-transfer na

iyong funds, posibleng zero balance din.

Anything significant below ₱10 million or above?

MS. ABAD. The total amount that has been frozen in Philrem

accounts, Your Honor, is ₱21,607,731…

SEN. RECTO. Ito iyong sa Philrem?

MS. ABAD. Yes, Your Honor.

SEN. RECTO. Twenty-one million, more or less?

MS. ABAD. Twenty-one million pesos, Your Honor.

SEN. RECTO. Okay. Ang pesos—Ang Philrem.

Okay. Kung may nawawala tayong $18 million, hindi kaya

puwede tingnan in other accounts kung posible? Are you doing that?

Are you looking at that?

MS. ABAD. I’m sorry, Your Honor, what’s the question?

SEN. RECTO. I mean, you hear the testimony here.

MS. ABAD. Yes.

SEN. RECTO. There’s something missing, right? Okay. Aren’t

you looking at that?

MS. ABAD. We’re definitely looking at that. We’re looking at

all the money—where all the money went. So if it can really be

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established that part of these monies was retained by Philrem, then we

have to run after that money, Your Honor.

SEN. RECTO. Okay. So I’m sure you’re listening attentively

here.


SEN. RECTO. And then one question with regard to the

casinos.

Solaire representative.

Mahalaga din iyong sa casino dito. You have frozen a hundred

seven million.

MR. S. TAN. Yes, Your Honor.

SEN. RECTO. At iyan hinihintay lang ninyo that the court

orders maibalik sa Bank of Bangladesh?

MR. S. TAN. That’s correct, Your Honor.

SEN. RECTO. So mayroon nang mababalik? Kung mayroon

nang 4.6 million, mayroon nang 38 million—$40.6 million, ₱38 million

with two fake ₱500 bills and 107 million—And there’s another 1.6

million, right?

MR. S. TAN. There’s a cash portion, Your Honor, 1.3…

SEN. RECTO. One point three million.


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SEN. RECTO. So that is clear na puwedeng ibalik na sa Bank of

Bangladesh at the very least. Okay. It would appear. You are just

waiting for a court order, right?

MR. S. TAN. That’s correct, Your Honor.

SEN. RECTO. And let me laud your effort for being able to

recover this money, to begin with, and for providing the Committee

with the passports, information of all these players.


SEN. RECTO. I think 18 of them, right?

MR. S. TAN. Nineteen, Your Honor.

SEN. RECTO. Nineteen. I’m sorry.

And was Weikang Xu ever a player in Solaire?

MR. S. TAN. He is not there, Your Honor.

SEN. RECTO. He is not, right? He is not a part of it, okay, in

Solaire?

Now nahuli ninyo iyong mga taong ito, ‘di ba?

MR. S. TAN. When we took action on March 10, Your Honor,

there was a group of people that remained.

SEN. RECTO. Are anyone of them here yet today in this

country?

MR. S. TAN. We do not know, Your Honor.

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SEN. RECTO. Kailan umalis sa inyo?

MR. S. TAN. After March 10, Your Honor.

SEN. RECTO. So when you say “nahuli ninyo,” what does that

mean?

MR. S. TAN. When they were playing, we stopped them from

playing and we confiscated all the chips.

SEN. RECTO. Okay. And then?

MR. S. TAN. We went up to their room and while in their

presence confiscated their cash.

SEN. RECTO. Hindi sila nagreklamo?

MR. S. TAN. No, Your Honor.

SEN. RECTO. So you confiscated them. Hindi ba ninyo pina-

blotter sa pulis or anything like that?


SEN. RECTO. Bakit niyo kinonfiscate (confiscate) iyong pera

nila? For what reason?

MR. S. TAN. We took a risk, Your Honor. It’s possible that

what we did can be questioned by them. But we decided to take the

right side of history, Your Honor.

SEN. RECTO. So para kunin na lang iyong pera?


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SEN. RECTO. Did you detain them?

MR. S. TAN. We have no authority to detain them, Your Honor.

SEN. RECTO. But you have no authority to get that money

also, right?

MR. S. TAN. It was a risk we took, Your Honor.

SEN. RECTO. Hindi ninyo itinuloy? Dinetain (detain) na sana

ninyo and then pina-blotter ninyo. Tama? Kalahati lang iyong ginawa

ninyo. Nevertheless, you were able to recover the money partially,

right?


SEN. RECTO. Did AMLC ever get in touch with you until March

10?


SEN. RECTO. Never. They never did.


SEN. RECTO. But they had the freeze order on March 1, Ms.

Julia Abad, right?

MS. ABAD. Are we talking of the Bloomberry’s account, Your

Honor?

SEN. RECTO. No. We’re talking about, you acted on March 1,

at least, you froze the accounts, right?

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SEN. RECTO. Did you ever coordinate with Pagcor?

MS. ABAD. We coordinated with Pagcor after the March 1…

SEN. RECTO. After March 1?


SEN. RECTO. But you were informed of the situation much

earlier, February—February 10? February 11? When were you

informed?

MS. ABAD. February 11, Your Honor.

SEN. RECTO. February 11.

Doesn’t it bother you, Ms. Julia, that now in the Committee, we

find out that you never coordinated with Pagcor?…/cmn

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Mhulep VIII-1 April 4, 2016 12:44 p.m. 1

SEN. RECTO. …with Pagcor?

MS. ABAD. We coordinated with Pagcor after the March 1--

SEN. RECTO. After March 1?

TRANSCRIPT: 4th Public Hearing of the Senate Blue Ribbon Committee on the $81-M Money Laundering...

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Transcript of TRANSCRIPT: 4th Public Hearing of the Senate Blue Ribbon Committee on the $81-M Money Laundering...