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The
UPSIDE-DOWNPYRAMID
How to Turn Your Organization Upside Down and Turn Your Profi ts Right Side Up
R O I C E K R U E G E R J A M E S S K I N N E R
M A R K V I C T O R H A N S E N
© 2007, Roice Krueger, James Skinner, and Mark Victor Hansen, All rights reserved. 1
Ideas That Can Change Your Life™ in Business
The Upside-Down Pyramid How to Turn Your Organization Upside Down and
Turn Your Profits Right Side Up
Roice Krueger, James Skinner, and Mark Victor Hansen
“The Upside-Down Pyramid” shows you how to
take your organization and orient it toward the
customer. The customer after all is paying
everyone’s salary!
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© 2007, Roice Krueger, James Skinner, and Mark Victor Hansen, All rights reserved. 2
Ideas That Can Change Your Life™ in Business
The Upside-Down Pyramid
The Authors: ROICE KRUEGER co-founded Franklin Covey, the
world’s largest training company, and has supervised
consulting projects for 80 percent of the Fortune 500.
JAMES SKINNER is the founder of two global financial
groups that manage billions of dollars of assets. He is
also recognized as one of the world’s foremost business
thinkers and appears regularly on Japanese television.
MARK VICTOR HANSEN is the co-creator of the Chicken
Soup for the Soul empire and is the best-selling nonfiction
author of all time. His goal is to make the planet work
for all humanity!
NOTE: Ideas That Can Change Your Life™ is a
collaboration of three of the world’s most amazing
authors, speakers, and thinkers. The first person “I” may
refer to any of the authors.
© 2007, Roice Krueger, James Skinner, and Mark Victor Hansen, All rights reserved. 3
Ideas That Can Change Your Life™ in Business
The Upside-Down Pyramid
Organization Matters
Do you work in an organization of at least four or five
people? If you do, you have seen organization dynamics
at work. In this book we will discuss organizations and
their basic structure.
We call it the upside-down pyramid. That’s what this
book is about. For those of you who are concerned
about getting your companies to focus on customers
and for those of you who want to improve the energy
and the direction of employees, I think you will find this
book very useful.
This topic has everything to do with leadership and
organizational skills.
The Traditional Pyramid
When you think of an organization, what shape do you
usually envision it as having? What is a typical way of
drawing a quick organization chart? It’s a pyramid, isn’t
it?
© 2007, Roice Krueger, James Skinner, and Mark Victor Hansen, All rights reserved. 4
Ideas That Can Change Your Life™ in Business
The Upside-Down Pyramid
Let’s draw a simple organization chart with three levels.
Who do we put at the top of the pyramid? What’s
usually the title of the person? I’m just going to put
“Boss,” to make it really generic. We’ve got the boss in
the top level of the chart.
Now, who is in the center level of the chart and
reporting to the boss? We’ve got managers in this
hypothetical organization, so I’m going to put managers
in the center.
Who reports to the managers? Now, notice the
word we use: workers. The workers have named
themselves this because they do the work. They go at
the bottom of the chart.
Now, where do we traditionally put the customers?
Outside the pyramid, below it; we put the customers
down here.
Something’s already feeling a little strange, right?
Let’s look at the diagram and see how this works.
© 2007, Roice Krueger, James Skinner, and Mark Victor Hansen, All rights reserved. 5
Ideas That Can Change Your Life™ in Business
The Upside-Down Pyramid
Who are the workers trying to keep happy? They are
trying to keep their managers happy.
Who are the managers trying to keep happy? They
are trying to keep the boss happy.
Who is the boss trying to keep happy?
The owners, the shareholders, whoever is out there,
right? (We will insert those in the diagram above the
boss!) These are the owners.
© 2007, Roice Krueger, James Skinner, and Mark Victor Hansen, All rights reserved. 6
Ideas That Can Change Your Life™ in Business
The Upside-Down Pyramid
Who is taking care of the customers?
Nobody!
Have we got a problem?
Now this is a very traditional organization. Our
structures are created to force our people to try to keep
the boss happy. The structure forces the boss to try to
keep the owners happy. Everyone is looking up, but
what should they be doing? They should be looking
down. But they’re looking up, aren’t they?
Implications of the Traditional Pyramid
Now, let’s say there are 100 people in this organization.
How many minds are effectively being used to run that
company? One, right?
The boss is the only one who is being effectively
used, because everybody’s following the boss.
Have we got a problem?
© 2007, Roice Krueger, James Skinner, and Mark Victor Hansen, All rights reserved. 7
Ideas That Can Change Your Life™ in Business
The Upside-Down Pyramid
If this company is competing against another
company, we’ve got a big problem!
Why are organizations formed in this manner? Why
have we adopted the pyramid? Where does it come from
in history and time? Thank about it.
Let’s take China. Who ruled in Chinese history? The
emperors and the empresses ruled. They were the
“bosses”; they had the power.
What gave them their power? The army was one
part of their power because the rulers maintained the
army. What else? The rulers had the gold, the money.
What else? They had the connection with God. Who or
what did the people believe gave the emperor or
empress their power? The rulers had a “mandate from
heaven,” right? That’s where they got their right to rule.
Now, there is something else that gave them
tremendous power: education and knowledge.
The workers had neither.
© 2007, Roice Krueger, James Skinner, and Mark Victor Hansen, All rights reserved. 8
Ideas That Can Change Your Life™ in Business
The Upside-Down Pyramid
An Historical Perspective on the Pyramid
Over time we took that same type of power pyramid
and applied it to organizations and modern companies!
Who is treated as being close to the Deity in a
modern organization? The boss is close! Do you ever
question the boss? Do you ever challenge the boss?
People are very hesitant to do that. If someone does
challenge the boss, the mature people around may
understand that the power structure has changed.
However, most people don’t understand that. They
continue on, looking up with fear and trepidation, trying
to serve the boss.
This gives us dysfunctional organizations. People did
this in France, in England, in many countries of the
world. We had kings and queens who ruled.
But something has changed today.
Do the bosses have all the gold? No.
Do they have the army? No.
© 2007, Roice Krueger, James Skinner, and Mark Victor Hansen, All rights reserved. 9
Ideas That Can Change Your Life™ in Business
The Upside-Down Pyramid
Do they have the education? Yes, but not all the
education.
So why are we still using this type of organization?
Why do we continue to perpetuate it?
Turn the Pyramid Upside Down
What do we need to do with this organization to make it
functional in today’s world? What would you do? Turn it
upside down, of course! Let’s see what this looks like.
© 2007, Roice Krueger, James Skinner, and Mark Victor Hansen, All rights reserved. 10
Ideas That Can Change Your Life™ in Business
The Upside-Down Pyramid
The customers stay outside the pyramid at the top.
And then we’ve got our workers at the top, our
managers in the middle, and our boss at the bottom.
In this organization, whom are the workers trying to
keep happy?
They are trying to keep the customers happy. Good.
Who are the managers trying to keep happy? Think
twice; don’t guess at it. Who are the managers trying to
keep happy? It’s not the workers. Who should they be
trying to keep happy? There’s only one correct answer:
the customers!
Who is the boss trying to keep happy? He is trying
to keep the customers happy!
Who is taking care of the owner? The customers are
taking care of the owners.
Do you see this?
© 2007, Roice Krueger, James Skinner, and Mark Victor Hansen, All rights reserved. 11
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The Impact of Using Many Minds
If there are 100 people inside this organization, how
many minds are effectively being used to keep the
customer happy?
The answer should be 100 people are being used
effectively, because all of them are working.
If this organization were competing with a
traditional organization, who would win? The inverted
pyramid company, for sure.
Why Governments Flipped
Now, let’s talk about the key to how we flip the
organization upside down.
Let’s go back to history again. What dramatically
changed and caused a complete revolution in the
economies of the world, innovation, and how things
work? What happened in history? What forms of
government came about that replaced our emperors and
empresses? Democracy, parliamentary governments, and
so forth.
© 2007, Roice Krueger, James Skinner, and Mark Victor Hansen, All rights reserved. 12
Ideas That Can Change Your Life™ in Business
The Upside-Down Pyramid
Who governs in the parliamentary style or
democratic style?
The people.
How did they get there?
What gave the power to the people? Why did we
have to invert the governmental pyramid? Why was it
such a revolution? Why did these people do that?
Education is the answer.
The power went to the people fundamentally
because of their increasing level of education. Often
they were as smart as, if not smarter than, the
aristocracy.
I sometimes think that people are still far smarter
than the politicians.
© 2007, Roice Krueger, James Skinner, and Mark Victor Hansen, All rights reserved. 13
Ideas That Can Change Your Life™ in Business
The Upside-Down Pyramid
The power base shifted because of education. And
with education they gained the gold. They could elect
their representatives and they can take them out.
According to what? There was something that created
the model. The British created the Magna Carta, and in
the United States we created the Constitution. The law
governed the people, not a king or queen.
And the people agreed to live by the law, not by the
dictates of a king or queen.
How to Flip the Organization
Now this teaches us how to operate our organization
today. How do you liberate, today, the people inside the
organization so the boss is not dictating what needs to
be done and so people are looking up at the customers
instead of the boss?
Here’s the key that will transform your organization
today when you apply it. You must have a clear vision of
the purpose of your organization. What is the strategy
that you are implementing now? What is it that you are
focusing on? All of that should be focused on your end
© 2007, Roice Krueger, James Skinner, and Mark Victor Hansen, All rights reserved. 14
Ideas That Can Change Your Life™ in Business
The Upside-Down Pyramid
user, the customer, because why else does an
organization exist?
An organization exists to serve the customer.
Well, what about the owner? Don’t the customers
exist to serve the owner?
See, we have a problem.
We set up all of our systems and processes. We track
profitability and we worship profitability. We shouldn’t
be worshiping profitability. We should be worshiping the
customer because the customer is the person who pays us! From
that we then create our profit.
So, we should create an agreement with all the
employees: a constitution. That’s why we have words
like mission, vision, value, strategy.
All our systems and processes should be pointing
towards the agreement or constitution. And here’s the
key: with all of that done, each employee needs to know
© 2007, Roice Krueger, James Skinner, and Mark Victor Hansen, All rights reserved. 15
Ideas That Can Change Your Life™ in Business
The Upside-Down Pyramid
what they need to do to fulfill that focus. They should
know what their role is in fulfilling the purpose of the
organization.
Survey after survey finds that an average of
40 percent (sometimes even 70 percent or 80 percent) of
employees do not know or understand their role in the
organization. They don’t understand what their purpose
is; they only know they’re doing the work.
How about your organization?
Do you know your specific role or function in the
organization and how it ties in to the long-term and
short-term goals of the organization?
Whenever I ask these questions, generally people
just shake their heads at me and say, “I don’t know; I
don’t understand.” Now, even if you’re working with a
company of two, you still must coordinate two roles. If
there are three in the company, then three roles; if four,
then four roles; and so forth. The more people you get,
the more frequently you have to stop and say, “What is
© 2007, Roice Krueger, James Skinner, and Mark Victor Hansen, All rights reserved. 16
Ideas That Can Change Your Life™ in Business
The Upside-Down Pyramid
truly important in my organization? What is it we are
focused on? How are we fulfilling the needs of the
customers?”
When you ask these questions, you will transform
the pyramid, and turn the organization upside down.
This is how you gain an agreement with all the people in
the organization and create focus.
Everyone knows what their role is in achieving this
focus on the customer.
Customer Focus
I want to give you two distinctions that can help you
accelerate the pace in which you turn the organization
upside down.
If you really want to turn it upside down, which way
does the power have to move? Down, right?
You have to push power down through the
organization in order for people to be able to actually
serve the customer.
© 2007, Roice Krueger, James Skinner, and Mark Victor Hansen, All rights reserved. 17
Ideas That Can Change Your Life™ in Business
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Many people and organizations feel completely
disempowered. They would like to serve the customer,
but they can’t.
Have you ever felt you wanted to do something for
the customer but for some reason were unable to?
The boss doesn’t feel that way. He feels he can do
whatever he wants; he’s the emperor. In order to turn
this upside down, you have to push power down
through the organization.
In order to push power, you have to know where
the power comes from.
So, what is the greatest source of power in any
organization? What is it that managers traditionally try to
horde to keep the power?
Give the Employees Information
Information is the greatest source of power; if you have
the information, you have the power.
© 2007, Roice Krueger, James Skinner, and Mark Victor Hansen, All rights reserved. 18
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So, if you want flip the organization upside down,
where does the information need to move? Down to the
workers.
The workers have to have the information.
When I was starting out with my first company, one
of the most powerful things I did was share information
with my employees. Novel concept!
So, what is the most important information that
managers and the company like to horde?
The accounts!
Guess what I did with the accounts? I pinned them
on the wall: The entire cash flow, every inflow and every
outflow, I pinned on the wall. I didn’t even say anything;
I just taped it to the wall! Employees would come in the
morning and look at the cash flow, and they’d say,
“Dang, we’re in trouble!” We were just starting out; I
didn’t know how to run a company. I figured, man,
© 2007, Roice Krueger, James Skinner, and Mark Victor Hansen, All rights reserved. 19
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we’re in trouble, we’re going bankrupt, and they’ve got
to get a picture of this. So, I taped it on the wall. My
assistant would come in the morning and say, “We have
no money.” I came to work one morning and my
secretary wasn’t there. This is a true story. I went over to
her desk, and there was a note that said, “Dear boss, I’m
out selling today.” Nobody had to tell her to do it. She
said, “I’m out getting us some customers because we
don’t have enough money.”
Do you think the owners were happy about this? I
was the owner. I thought this was a really great idea. I
taped it on the wall.
The employees were coming in and saying we’re
spending too much money, because they had the
information. They started coming up with ways to cut
costs because they knew it was important. They had the
same information as the managers and the boss.
In most organizations, the boss and the managers
are the only ones with the information. So, the boss and
© 2007, Roice Krueger, James Skinner, and Mark Victor Hansen, All rights reserved. 20
Ideas That Can Change Your Life™ in Business
The Upside-Down Pyramid
the managers are the only people concerned with getting
sales and cutting costs.
This is one of those “Aha!” moments. Now you’re
thinking, “Oh, no wonder the employees don’t care;
they don’t know, right?”
So, you need to push the information down. Is it
enough to push the information down to the workers?
Give the Customers Information
Ultimately, where does the information really need to be
pushed down to? It needs to be pushed to the customer.
Including our customers in the whole process is a novel
concept.
Can you name an organization that has pushed the
information down to the customers? How about
FedEx?
Can you find out where your package is? What plane
is your package on? Who cleared it through customs?
Have the duties been paid? You can go onto their site
© 2007, Roice Krueger, James Skinner, and Mark Victor Hansen, All rights reserved. 21
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The Upside-Down Pyramid
and find exactly where your package is located. You
have as much information as the boss. You know as
much about a package as he does. Now, for anybody
who’s ever been a customer and wanted to find out
where their package was, was it useful to be able to get
that information? Do you feel better as a customer
because you have the information?
Now that you have a vendor who will give you the
information, are you interested in using a courier service
that will not?
See, that’s a really interesting thought, right?
If you start to give the information to the customers
and involve them in the process, they don’t want to use
anybody else.
Is it important in restaurants today to let your
customers know things like nutrition information? It’s
starting to become very important, because we have
people with all kinds of health needs. They are starting
© 2007, Roice Krueger, James Skinner, and Mark Victor Hansen, All rights reserved. 22
Ideas That Can Change Your Life™ in Business
The Upside-Down Pyramid
to have access to all the information regarding their
health that used to be available only to their doctors.
The entire healthcare industry is being turned on its
head. Now they’re pushing the information down so the
nurses have information and patients have information.
Patients are starting to understand their own
illnesses, their own conditions, what their own DNA
predisposes them to, and are starting to make healthful
food choices based on what they actually need.
So many restaurants, particularly those that didn’t
serve healthful food to begin with, are finding it very
important to get information to the customers.
People are not going to places that will not give
them the information.
To keep up with this trend, organizations need to
push the information down. You also need to push
down the decision-making power.
© 2007, Roice Krueger, James Skinner, and Mark Victor Hansen, All rights reserved. 23
Ideas That Can Change Your Life™ in Business
The Upside-Down Pyramid
Example: The Ritz-Carlton
One of my favorite examples of an organization that
manages to focus on the customers is Ritz-Carlton.
Their hotels are really terrific. You might want to go
sometime just to find out how they do it.
Every employee in the organization can, at any time,
without consulting a manager or a boss, spend $2,000 to
make the customer happy. Is that powerful? Anytime,
with no consultation, they can just do it.
The power has been pushed down. Is it enough to
push the power down to the workers?
Hello! You might be starting to get the idea of
where this is all going. If you are a manager or a boss,
you may be feeling uncomfortable about now. You’re
thinking, “What am I going to be doing? Not much!”
That’s a good thing, by the way. If everybody is
focused, you don’t have to carry 100 percent of the
burden anymore.
© 2007, Roice Krueger, James Skinner, and Mark Victor Hansen, All rights reserved. 24
Ideas That Can Change Your Life™ in Business
The Upside-Down Pyramid
Will your customers pick up some of the burden?
Will they take some of the responsibility? Yes, if you
give them the power and the information.
So are there any companies that you can think of
that give that power to the customer?
Example: Dell Computers
How about Dell computers? They are not going to tell
you what kind of computer you should have. You just
go onto their site, choose the parts you want, and create
a computer just for you. The power to design the
product used to be with the company, but it is now with
the customer.
Who used to design the products? The managers
and the bosses used to decide what product they would
manufacture.
As soon as you started to realize that you could
decide what product should be manufactured, how
interested are you in a company that wants to tell you
© 2007, Roice Krueger, James Skinner, and Mark Victor Hansen, All rights reserved. 25
Ideas That Can Change Your Life™ in Business
The Upside-Down Pyramid
what you should buy? Not very interested, right? You
should start to see the power of this.
The two things that you need to do to invert this
pyramid and get everyone focused on making the
customer happy—and making your competition very
unhappy—is first, push down the information, and then
second, push down the power. That’s how you make the
customer happy in today’s world.
Academic Examples
I want to talk about when my daughters went to
elementary school. I thought that if everyone who is rich
pulled their kids out of public school and put them in
private school or a charter school, the system fails. I
found this kindergarten teacher who was really good and
whispered to the kids, sang to them, and was
multilingual in class. I wanted to sit in her class because
it was so marvelous. She put the students first.
Back when I went to college, I learned that the
student picks the teacher, not the subject. I became a
student leader: a student senator and then student body
© 2007, Roice Krueger, James Skinner, and Mark Victor Hansen, All rights reserved. 26
Ideas That Can Change Your Life™ in Business
The Upside-Down Pyramid
president. At my university (Southern Illinois University)
I was told that the power structure was inverted and that
the customers in this case were the students. It was
students first, faculty second, and administration never.
The students were the kings and queens and emperors
and empresses. We got a fine education too. They asked
us to tell them what we wanted to learn and how we
wanted to learn it. They said, “We’re going to arrange
seminars for you to take. Whom would you like to teach
them?” Then they helped us pick professors from
Harvard, Wharton, Yale, and Stanford who were 65 and
retiring. They put the power back with the kids.
Of 64,000 students, maybe only 20 or 30 of us were
really making decisions, but all the kids had access to us.
And we had access to the president, the board chairman,
and the chancellor.
Turning the university system on its ear was a great
idea.
Summary
Turn your organization upside down.
© 2007, Roice Krueger, James Skinner, and Mark Victor Hansen, All rights reserved. 27
Ideas That Can Change Your Life™ in Business
The Upside-Down Pyramid
Put the customers at the top and focus everyone in
the organization on the customer. Share information
with the employees. Give them the power to take care
of the customers. Enable the customers by sharing
information with them and giving them power to get
what they want!
We hope this information will assist you in being a
great leader in your organization and in the world in
which we live.
With best wishes,
Roice Krueger, James Skinner, Mark Victor Hansen
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