THE UNTOLD STORY BEHIND MICHAEL JACKSON'S … · OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Today, all new, for the...

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THE UNTOLD STORY BEHIND MICHAEL JACKSON'S CONTROVERSIAL ALBUM, PLUS

AUTHOR JONATHAN FRANZEN AND OPRAH'S NEW BOOK

December 6, 2010

December 6, 2010 Page 1

Copyright 2010 HARPO PRODUCTIONS INC www.oprah.com

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Today, all new, for the first time, this family comes forward, their 25-year secret relationship with Michael Jackson.

CONNIE CASCIO: In the middle of the night sometimes, he'd just knock at the door.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): How did you all keep this a secret? Unseen home video, unheard recordings, the controversy. Michael's longtime producer. Why do you say for sure it is him? Then bestselling phenomenon Jonathan Franzen and I finally meet. And a new Book Club pick for the holidays. Next.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Michael Jackson was the biggest pop superstar in the world. He couldn't go anywhere without being hunted by the paparazzi, which makes today's story all the more intriguing. Michael Jackson had a secret hideaway at a home in a New Jersey suburb with a family whose name you've probably never heard before today. Michael recorded songs in their basement and had been regularly visiting their home for 25 years, and almost nobody knew about it. The family is here for their first interview with brand-new, unreleased music and personal home video of their time with Michael. We're going to talk with them in just a few moments, but first some breaking news today.

A major announcement from Michelle Rhee, the former Chancellor of D.C. public schools. Some call her a hero. Some call her names we won't mention here. We first talked to Michelle in September about the must-see documentary which you still have an opportunity to see, "Waiting For Superman." Take a look.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): For three years, the Chancellor of D.C. public schools, Michelle Rhee, has been at the center of the storm, a renegade on a mission to fix the education crisis in America.

DAVID GUGGENHEIM ("WAITING FOR SUPERMAN"): So you think that most of the kids here are getting a crappy education right now?

MICHELLE RHEE (EDUCATION REFORMER): Oh, I don't think they are. I know they are.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): She closed dozens of failing schools and fired over 1,000 teachers and principals.

MICHELLE RHEE (EDUCATION REFORMER): I'm terminating your principalship now.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Tempers flared when Michelle went on the attack against teachers' tenure.

MICHELLE RHEE (EDUCATION REFORMER): What we had decided was that we needed to turn this notion on its head, that, you know, everyone who is tenured has a job for life.



OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you get tenured after, what, three years?

MICHELLE RHEE (EDUCATION REFORMER): After two years.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): After two years?

MICHELLE RHEE (EDUCATION REFORMER): After two years, you have a job for life.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): After two years, you have a job for life, and you can't be fired. Who does that? In September, D.C. mayor Adrian Fenty, Michelle's boss and biggest supporter, lost the primary election. Many people blamed her.

CLAIRE SHIPMAN (ABC NEWS/GOOD MORNING AMERICA): Were you responsible for Mayor Fenty losing this election?

MICHELLE RHEE (EDUCATION REFORMER): Yeah.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Weeks later, it made big national news when Michelle quit her job.

JOHN KING (USA, CNN): The governor of New Jersey has said he'd be interested in talking to you. The Obama administration has said maybe they would talk to you. Some philanthropies and foundations have said they might be interested. What next?

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Everybody wants her to fix their schools, but what will her next bold move be?

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, it was reported that Michelle Rhee had many job offers and that governors across America are waiting with bated breath to hear what her high-profile job will be, the next one, so tell us what you've decided. What job are you taking?

MICHELLE RHEE (EDUCATION REFORMER): I've decided I'm not taking any of those jobs.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because?

MICHELLE RHEE (EDUCATION REFORMER): Because I am going to do something different. I am going to start a revolution. I'm going to start a movement in this country on behalf of the nation's children because...

MICHELLE RHEE (EDUCATION REFORMER): Our country's education system is broken right now. It is—it is failing our children. If you look right now, the children who are in school right now are going to be the first generation of Americans who are less well educated than their parents were, and you know, we're...



OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Shame on us.

MICHELLE RHEE (EDUCATION REFORMER): Yes. We're falling further and further behind our global competitors. I can essentially, Oprah, look at a child's zip code and tell you with pretty good accuracy what their academic achievement levels are in this country. It's absolutely wrong, and it's got to stop.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that's not because of the child.

MICHELLE RHEE (EDUCATION REFORMER): Absolutely not.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's because of the failing school systems.

MICHELLE RHEE (EDUCATION REFORMER): That's right.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And I know a big part of that, you think, are, teachers who do not work. Now, I know you all know I love teachers. I consider myself to be one with this platform every day. I love great teachers, so great teachers, really good teachers, also want really good teachers, and we all know that the best chance of success for your child comes from having great teachers, right? So we're not talking about great teachers, so don't waste your time writing me if you're a great teacher, and if you're a bad one, I don't want to hear from you, right?

MICHELLE RHEE (EDUCATION REFORMER): That's right. There was a study recently that showed that in this country, if we removed the bottom 6 to 10 percent of teachers and replaced them just with average teachers, we could propel ourselves from the bottom to the top globally of where we're performing. So that shows you the power...

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's just taking the bottom 62 percent?

MICHELLE RHEE (EDUCATION REFORMER): That's just the bottom 6 percent and just keeping average teachers. We're not even talking about great ones.

That's right. So that means that most teachers are doing a great job, but we have to do something about removing...

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Teachers in here doing a great job, yes? Thank you.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So the bottom line is that you don't want to fix one school system. You want to fix the whole thing.

MICHELLE RHEE (EDUCATION REFORMER): That's right.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, my god. Oh, my god. That's an o-m-g-er. Yes.



MICHELLE RHEE (EDUCATION REFORMER): But that's what it's going to take. I mean, you know, if we try to do this one city or one state at a time, then this sort of blob is just going to come in and try to target the next mayor or governor who takes it on.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So this is a gargantuan thing that you're taking on. God bless you for this. This is really the lord's work you're taking on, and so you've started an organization called Students First. I love that title because I think in all of the conversations we have about education, what has been forgotten are the children that everybody is here to serve. So it's called Students First.

MICHELLE RHEE (EDUCATION REFORMER): It's called students first so that whenever anybody hears about us, they know exactly what we're about.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So one of your first goals is to get a million members.

MICHELLE RHEE (EDUCATION REFORMER): Correct.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So we have 10 million people watching today. Will a million of y'all please go sign up?

MICHELLE RHEE (EDUCATION REFORMER): Please.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. So I sign up if I want what?

MICHELLE RHEE (EDUCATION REFORMER): If you want to see the change in this country that we need, if you know that teachers make a huge difference and we need a highly effective teacher in every classroom, if you know that all parents deserve to have options, excellent options for where to send their children to school, if you believe that we need to take money away from the bureaucracy and put it into the classroom where it belongs, away from ineffective programs into things that work...

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because one of the other things you want to do--so the first thing you want is a million members, and you go to studentsfirst.org.

MICHELLE RHEE (EDUCATION REFORMER): Correct.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. Sign up if you want to be a part of this revolution for change for children and really add your voice to the rest of the country who wants to change the school systems, and you want to raise a billion dollars.

MICHELLE RHEE (EDUCATION REFORMER): Yes. We're going to raise a billion dollars to do this.



OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that billion dollars is going to be distributed to school districts.

MICHELLE RHEE (EDUCATION REFORMER): Right. We want communities to come to us and say, "We want to change. We want to be part of the solution." We will use that money to help organize communities and put the money, again, where it matters the most, which is in the classroom.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wow. I know, really, I could cry. I'm not going to cry, but I could. You know the little hairs on my head are raising. You know, I don't have the know-how to fix it, and I keep saying and have been saying from this platform, somebody needs to fix it, and the fact that you've stepped up and said, "I want to be the person to do it," god bless you for that.

MICHELLE RHEE (EDUCATION REFORMER): Thank you.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): God bless you for that. Somebody needs to fix it. You can do it. I am behind you. We are behind you. So today I am using my show as a platform. This is an urgent call to action. This is really, America, hear me now. This is a seminal moment for us, where we as a country, as the citizens of this country, choose to be an educated people or not, where we will choose to move ourselves to the top of the list, because right now we're number, what, 23 and 25?

MICHELLE RHEE (EDUCATION REFORMER): Right, in reading and math, yes.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Of industrialized countries?

MICHELLE RHEE (EDUCATION REFORMER): Out of 30 developed nations.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Out of 30 developed nations, the United States of America is number 23 and 25. So we're either going to fall further behind or choose to move forward. It's really in our hands as the citizens, and I believe that Michelle Rhee is one of the people who can turn this dire situation around. She cannot do it alone. That's why she's asking for a million of you to join her. If you want to make your voice heard, sign up at studentsfirst.org. Get yourself fired up. Let's stop complaining about it. Log in and do something. Thank you, Michelle. I'm rooting for you.

MICHELLE RHEE (EDUCATION REFORMER): Thank you.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I'm rooting for you. We'll be right back. Studentsfirst.org.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Coming up, the family Michael Jackson kept secret for 25 years. So I have to ask you, were there ever any improprieties?



OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So also making news is the controversy surrounding the release of a new Michael Jackson album titled "Michael" with 10 never-before-heard songs recorded before his death. Now, this is the Cascio family. They have been reluctant to come here today, afraid that they might be betraying a friendship that they've held so privately and dearly for over 25 years. That is how long they have had a secret relationship with the King of Pop, Michael Jackson. He called them his second family, and they've written music together, have personal home videos, and endless memories with a man who was a mystery to most of us. Here is how it all started.

DOMINIC CASCIO: Well, when I first met Michael Jackson, I was working at the Helmsley Palace Hotel. I used to manage all the suites and the apartments, and that's where he normally stayed. Michael asked me if I was married, if I had any kids and that one day he would love to meet them.

CONNIE CASCIO: He was wonderful, and we treated him as he was part of our family and that he was not the King of Pop but just a human being.

DOMINIC CASCIO: He always called us "the family of love, my second family."

CONNIE CASCIO: Mm-hmm.

MICHAEL JACKSON: Attack. Argh.

MARIE NICOLE CASCIO: Michael.

FRANK CASCIO: We grew up with him, literally, since he was three and I was five, and so being around him was just normal.

EDDIE CASCIO: He really just was so humble and then never really played off on the fact that he was, you know, Michael Jackson, you know. He was just Michael. He was just our friend.

CONNIE CASCIO: I used to cook all his favorite food. I knew exactly what he loved, and I would make it for him. I even would make him homemade pizza and, you know, he loved it. And turkey dinners.

FAMILY: Turkey dinners.

EDDIE CASCIO: Mashed potatoes, stuffing.

FRANK CASCIO: Thanksgiving dinner every day.

EDDIE CASCIO: Yeah.

MARIE NICOLE CASCIO: And he did love his sweets.



EDDIE CASCIO: Well, the candy counter, he kind of introduced us to. You know, at Neverland, he always had the candy counter. One of the first times he came here, he was like, "Where's your candy counter?" And he made us go out and get...

FRANK CASCIO: He thought everyone had a candy counter.

EDDIE CASCIO: Yeah, and my father went out and got boxes and boxes of all different types of candy that Michael loved, and we actually placed it, you know, over there. And then he was like, "Okay. You got the candy counter. We're good."

FRANK CASCIO: Just liked hanging out.

EDDIE CASCIO: He'd hang out just like this, just, you know, just standing around the counter and talking, and you know, when there was...

CONNIE CASCIO: He took my garbage out one night.

EDDIE CASCIO: Yeah.

MARIE NICOLE CASCIO: Yeah. He loved doing things like that.

CONNIE CASCIO: Yeah, he loved doing things like that.

FRANK CASCIO: Helped her vacuum, clean up the house.

MARIE NICOLE CASCIO: Mm-hmm. He loved cleaning the house.

CONNIE CASCIO: Yeah, he tried to clean up the house, his way of cleaning.

FRANK CASCIO: Yeah, it was funny 'cause... (laugh)

EDDIE CASCIO: He would just come up and enjoy family dinners and just be part of the family. He would always make sure that before every meal that we'd say our prayers and say grace, and, you know, even afterwards we'd have sit-downs, and we'd all go through and, you know, just talk about what we're thankful for, and, you know, those type of memories that we all have are just--they're really priceless, you know, because that was Michael.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Connie and Dominic Cascio and their children Eddie, Frank, and Marie Nicole have never spoken publicly about their relationship with Michael until today. Eddie has known Michael since he was a toddler. That was Eddie playing the piano in the home video that we just saw over the years. Michael mentored Eddie and taught him the ropes about music, and in just a few moments, for the first time, we're going to hear a few of the songs that Eddie produced and wrote with Michael Jackson before he died. So why did you want to be here, Eddie?



EDDIE CASCIO: Well, I felt that it was important to show the world who Michael really was, especially to us as a family.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, you were just a little boy when he first came to the house. I have to ask your mother, Connie, what in the world did you think when your husband said, "Michael Jackson is dropping by?"

CONNIE CASCIO: Well, you know, Michael never made an announcement when he was coming. He would just show up at the door, and we were like--in the middle of the night sometimes, he'd just knock at the door, and I'd wake up the kids. If you notice, they were all in their pajamas when they were playing and half asleep, but it's...

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): How did you all keep this a secret all these years?

EDDIE CASCIO: Michael was very private, and he felt that he saw the warmth and how we respected Michael for who he was, and now he just didn't want us to be that family that goes out and, you know, talks about Michael Jackson, and we never did that.

CONNIE CASCIO: We wanted to give Michael that opportunity to know that we weren't there to--for who he was as a celebrity. That we were really there to be a family for him and to get him through all his bad times that he's been through because we knew him before the bad times, and when the bad times came...

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Bad times meaning charges of sexual molestation?

CONNIE CASCIO: Right. We weren't going to turn our backs on him, and we stood there, and we said, "We're with you all the way." And he appreciated it and we did it.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, I have to ask the questions because obviously, there were bad times. Accused of sexual molestation. You had two young boys, a young daughter. Did you ever ask your children if any improprieties had occurred with them?

DOMINIC CASCIO: As a father, I did.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): As a father, you did.

DOMINIC CASCIO: And they looked at me like, "Are you serious?" But I had to do it.

CONNIE CASCIO: We had to explain it to him, the kids, what was going on. They didn't understand it.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): At the time.

DOMINIC CASCIO: Right.



OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So I have to ask you, Frank, Marie Nicole, were there ever any improprieties with you and Michael Jackson?

EDDIE CASCIO: Never.

FRANK CASCIO: Never.

MARIE NICOLE CASCIO: Never.

EDDIE CASCIO: Michael couldn't--he couldn't harm--he couldn't harm a fly. I mean, he's such a kind and gentle soul.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So when you heard those charges and heard those charges then again, and he went on trial for those charges, what did you think?

EDDIE CASCIO: "This is ridiculous. It's ridiculous."

MARIE NICOLE CASCIO: Terrible.

EDDIE CASCIO: Michael was a target, and unfortunately, he was targeted.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So at no time did you ever feel, during all of those charges against him, that your children were not safe with him.

DOMINIC CASCIO: Never.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Never.

CONNIE CASCIO: Never.

DOMINIC CASCIO: Never. Never a doubt.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Did he continue to come to your home and be with your family after he had his own children?

CONNIE CASCIO: Oh, yes. Oh, absolutely. We were there when the kids were born, and we were there. I mean--and he was so happy, and we, you know...

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Like physically there.

CONNIE CASCIO: Yeah, physically there. And...

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Would he bring the children to your house?



CONNIE CASCIO: Absolutely. Absolutely. He trusted no one but us to even--like, he would leave the kids with no one but--other than the nanny, and we were the other family that he left the kids with.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. We will be right back. Where have y'all been? We'll be right back.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Coming up, did you all see signs of drug addiction? And the controversy over his new album. There are some who are saying that this isn't Michael's voice. What can you tell us?

EDDIE CASCIO: I had been studying piano since the age of four, and my brother as well, and as we grew up, we would play for Michael, and we both learned pretty much all of Michael's songs. I'll take you down to the studio. It's in the basement. So this is the studio, and it didn't always look like this. When Michael was here, there wasn't any drums or anything here. There was just a box spring with a mattress. So he would sleep over here. Then I had sectioned off this corner with curtains, black, dark curtains going all the way around it, with a flat-screen TV. So he had, like, his little cave. Right here, we had--it wasn't this dance floor, but we had a regular, wooden dance floor put in just for him. He was training every morning. He'd dance, and I would be right here next to him dancing. Years later, fast forward to, I would say, the beginning of '07, he came ready to work, and that's what we did. Spent long hours working in the studio, recording. The vocals were done, actually, right in this room. I think Michael would be very excited right now that the music that he was doing for his fans, they're finally going to get a chance to hear it.

MICHAEL JACKSON: (singing) Keep your head up/ keeping your head up to the sky/ keeping your mind...

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That was an exclusive preview of the new song "Keep Your Head Up" produced and written by Michael Jackson and Eddie Cascio, who's sitting here right now. The new album "Michael" is out on December 14. What do you think is the most important thing he actually taught you?

EDDIE CASCIO: Just to always be true to who you are. Be humble. Be grateful for everything, and never stop seeking knowledge.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. He was a perfectionist I heard.

EDDIE CASCIO: Oh, absolutely. Yes.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Did he always look like Michael Jackson? I mean, like, with the epaulets and--did he ever, like, come in a pair of sweats?



FRANK CASCIO: Actually, Michael--Michael...

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Did he wear pajamas?

EDDIE CASCIO: Michael--Oprah, he looked--he always looked--he was always ahead of his time when it came to fashion in public, but...

FRANK CASCIO: Especially when he wore the pajamas in the house, walking around.

EDDIE CASCIO: The funny thing is, he'd wear pajamas with, like, a t-shirt, and then he'd have a nice blazer. So he'd always have something--he would always have something that you saw, "Oh, that's Michael." With the blazer or with, you know, the iconic--the armband and everything.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Did your family benefit in any way from the association other than the love that you felt from him? Did he buy you lavish gifts or, you know, Rolls-Royces? Cars?

FRANK CASCIO: No.

DOMINIC CASCIO: No.

EDDIE CASCIO: No, no. There was never any lavish gift. There was always--we celebrated holidays, Christmases together, so there was always Christmas presents, but we also gave him Christmas presents.

CONNIE CASCIO: And he loved them.

EDDIE CASCIO: Yeah, it was--we...

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because I thought that he was a Jehovah's Witness and his religion didn't celebrate holidays.

CONNIE CASCIO: But he celebrated Christmas. He always loved Christmas, receiving gifts, and giving gifts, and that's what he did.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. What do we actually get Michael for Christmas?

CONNIE CASCIO: Go ahead. You could say.

DOMINIC CASCIO: Well, Michael--he loved books.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hmm.

DOMINIC CASCIO: Just buying books. And art. He loved art.



CONNIE CASCIO: A lot of Disney stuff.

DOMINIC CASCIO: He loved Michelangelo. He truly loved. Always talked to me about Michelangelo.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. I hear you spoke to him three days before he died.

CONNIE CASCIO: Mm-hmm.

EDDIE CASCIO: Yeah.

DOMINIC CASCIO: He called us at home, Father's Day, to wish us happy Father's Day, and coincidental, we were all in my house, so he got to talk to all the family.

CONNIE CASCIO: All of us.

DOMINIC CASCIO: It's some time when we think about that.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Were you aware--did you all see signs of drug addiction?

DOMINIC CASCIO: We didn't see the signs. When he was at home, he was a normal person.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. What would you say, Eddie?

EDDIE CASCIO: He was sharp. It was unfortunate to learn of the so-called problem or addiction problem that we now know he suffered from. Unfortunately, it got the best of him.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. Did he--everybody who's known him says that he had a chronic problem sleeping. Did you--yes, because if he's coming to your house in the middle of the night...

CONNIE CASCIO: Well, we knew that, but I'll tell you, he slept at our house. Because he really did relax and sleep at my house. I mean, it's just amazing. I guess he felt like he can really just feel secure and separate from everything else. We did a lot of family things to get his mind off of, I guess, the superstar that he was.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): How much do you miss him?

CONNIE CASCIO: Oh.

DOMINIC CASCIO: We still do.

CONNIE CASCIO: It'll never go away.



DOMINIC CASCIO: We still do.

CONNIE CASCIO: It'll never--it's an everyday battle that we all have, and we all mention his name. At least once a day, we mention him because we actually can feel him in our home.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Michael and Eddie recorded 12 songs in the Cascios' basement. They are locked in a vault, and we're hearing three of them today. Eddie, there have been some questions, you know, about, first of all, people saying that this isn't Michael's voice. You know that. What can you tell us about that?

EDDIE CASCIO: I can tell you that it is Michael's voice. He recorded right there in my basement.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): In that little room with the mat on the floor?

EDDIE CASCIO: Yep. Yep.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So sophisticated. In the sophisticated studios there.

EDDIE CASCIO: Yeah, it was a home studio, and, you know, we worked. I was there pushing the buttons. He was right there directing, and he--that's Michael Jackson.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): As we go to break, here's another exclusive track called "Monster" written and produced by Eddie Cascio and Michael Jackson. Eddie says this is one that Michael would've gotten up and danced to. Take a listen.

MICHAEL JACKSON: (singing) Hollywood just look in the mirror and tell me you like/ don't you, don't you like it/ monster/ he's a monster/ he's an animal...

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Coming up, why some say Michael's new CD should never have been released. Would Michael have liked the heat, though? Would he have liked the controversy?

MICHAEL JACKSON: (singing) Breaking news/ oh/ Everybody watching the news of Michael Jackson/ they wanna see that I fall 'cause I'm Michael Jackson/ you write the words to destroy like it's a weapon/ you turned your back on the love/ and you can't get it again no matter what.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's a song called "Breaking News" written and produced by Eddie Cascio and Michael Jackson, and it's being released December 14. Some of the tracks on Michael's new album were finished by his longtime producer and friend Teddy Riley. Teddy worked with Michael for over 18 years on some of his most successful albums, including "Dangerous" and "History" and "Invincible." He was also one of six producers and engineers who verified the authenticity of Michael's voice. So what do you--hi. Welcome. Hi. How are you? What do you say to the doubters?



TEDDY RILEY (LONGTIME MICHAEL JACKSON PRODUCER): Well, I say to the doubters, along with my friends who also worked with Michael over 20 years, over 25 years, this is Michael's voice. And so many people, including some of the family, they doubt that it's him, but we professionally, we've been around him.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Why do they doubt that it's him? Do they recognize the relationship? Was the family aware of this relationship with you all?

DOMINIC CASCIO: Yeah.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): They were aware. Okay. Why do you say for sure it is him?

TEDDY RILEY (LONGTIME MICHAEL JACKSON PRODUCER): Because you can hear the authenticity in his voice and you can hear, like, the natural part of him, and no one could really do a scream like that strong scream on the music that you hear like Michael. I don't care if you get anyone. They will never be able to duplicate Michael's voice.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, you know, there are some who are saying that this new album, these new songs, should not be released. Will.I.am, who's a friend of mine and a friend of the show's, has said that Michael is a perfectionist and would not have wanted this released because it wasn't perfect, you know. The way he left it wasn't perfect. What do you say to that, Eddie, and you, Teddy?

EDDIE CASCIO: Well, I feel that Michael absolutely wanted these songs released. Michael did it for his fans. He recorded for his fans, and it deserves to come out, and the fans deserve to hear what the musical genius of Michael really is.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And what his last work was.

EDDIE CASCIO: Yeah. Absolutely.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What do you say?

TEDDY RILEY (LONGTIME MICHAEL JACKSON PRODUCER): It's to continue his legacy. I think--they're saying it's not perfect, but this is Michael's, you know, his art, and we must continue his legacy. Michael's worst day is probably a lot of those people's, you know, best day. So this is still Michael and this is, you know, what we...

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So are you saying it's better to have some Michael rather than no Michael?

TEDDY RILEY (LONGTIME MICHAEL JACKSON PRODUCER): That's right. That's right.



OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Would Michael have liked the heat on this new album? Would he like the controversy?

TEDDY RILEY (LONGTIME MICHAEL JACKSON PRODUCER): He'd love. He lives controversy.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm.

EDDIE CASCIO: Yeah.

TEDDY RILEY (LONGTIME MICHAEL JACKSON PRODUCER): He lives for it.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So the fact that we're sitting here going "is it or isn't it?"

TEDDY RILEY (LONGTIME MICHAEL JACKSON PRODUCER): Exactly. He would be--he's smiling at us right now. "Just what I want you all to do."

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Were both of you planning on going to London for his final concert, for the "This Is It?"

TEDDY RILEY (LONGTIME MICHAEL JACKSON PRODUCER): Yes. I had two weeks there with my children.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, I think it's remarkable--first of all, thank you for coming to share this story with me. I think it's remarkable that this family has known Michael Jackson--this has been going on in your basement, in Michael's pajamas, all of this time, and you all never told anybody. Thanks to the Cascio family. Thank you, Teddy Riley. Thank you, Eddie. Michael Jackson's new album "Michael" in stores December 14, with all the exclusive tracks that we heard today and much more. We'll be right back with Jonathan Franzen and "Freedom."

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Here's what Michael Jackson's record company, Epic Records, had to say about the authenticity of Michael's voice on his new album. They said, "We have complete confidence in the results of our extensive research, as well as the accounts of those who were in the studio with Michael, that the vocals on the new album are his own."

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. So our next guest is someone I've been waiting a long time to finally meet.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Don't start with me, people. Author Jonathan Franzen is considered one of the best writers in the world, and even though he shies away from the spotlight, he cannot help but make headlines. Take a look.



OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Nine years ago, it was the book "The Corrections" that dazzled critics and readers alike, including me, becoming a bestseller, a National Book Award winner, and a Pulitzer Prize finalist. Author Jonathan Franzen's star rose, even beyond the literary world.

JONATHAN FRANZEN (AUTHOR): How do you like me now?

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But the long wait for Jonathan's next novel was worth it. "Freedom" debuted to unbridled enthusiasm, and after I finished it, I knew I wanted you all to read it, too. And our newest book club pick is "Freedom." "Time" magazine put him on the cover, calling him a great American novelist, and with nearly 1.5 million copies in print, readers have pushed "Freedom" to the top of the charts. It is one fantastical book. Please welcome Jonathan Franzen. Jonathan. Hi. Hello. Hello. Hello.

JONATHAN FRANZEN (AUTHOR): Hello.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I will say this, that it's an honor to have you here finally.

JONATHAN FRANZEN (AUTHOR): It's an honor to be here.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, you got summoned to the White House because of your book.

JONATHAN FRANZEN (AUTHOR): I did, apparently, yes, because of the book.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): How does that happen? They say, "The president of the United States would like to see you, sir."

JONATHAN FRANZEN (AUTHOR): A reader I know has a husband who's a videographer, and the word came down through there. "The President has 20 minutes for you," and I was told that's like an eternity.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes.

JONATHAN FRANZEN (AUTHOR): And it kind of felt like one because like what are you supposed to say after...

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What did you say?

JONATHAN FRANZEN (AUTHOR): I said, you know, "You're my hero," and that left 19 minutes and 45 seconds.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What did he want to say to you? Did he just want to talk to you?



JONATHAN FRANZEN (AUTHOR): I think so. Yeah. He mentioned the book, and he said a few general things, but I wasn't going to probe him with deep textual questions.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, to see if he actually read every page. Yes. Was it a good experience?

JONATHAN FRANZEN (AUTHOR): It was great. Yeah. We talked about the presidency, and I came away admiring him all the more.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Really?

JONATHAN FRANZEN (AUTHOR): Yeah.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Now, when you were on the cover of "Time"--authors aren't normally on the cover of "Time."

JONATHAN FRANZEN (AUTHOR): No. I guess when it was first proposed to them in the spring, the response was like someone had said they'd seen a unicorn.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): (laugh) Because authors aren't on the cover of "Time."

JONATHAN FRANZEN (AUTHOR): Exactly. It had been 10 years.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Although we've never met, we have a little history together. I picked his excellent novel, the previous novel, "The Corrections" for my book club in 2001, and you voiced some concerns about that at the time, and as I remember it, I didn't want to make you feel uncomfortable. It still was a Book Club selection and still remains a Book Club selection, but I said, well, if you were uncomfortable, then we would not have that Book Club dinner, as we used to do all the time, and I actually the other day had to read the press clips from back then to remember what actually happened. What do you think happened?

JONATHAN FRANZEN (AUTHOR): It's a long time ago.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. Yeah.

JONATHAN FRANZEN (AUTHOR): One can be forgiven for forgetting.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes.

JONATHAN FRANZEN (AUTHOR): One could be encouraged to forget. Uh, oh, what happened? You know, I spoke in very long sentences, and then little pieces of those sentences sounded bad, and your feelings were probably, understandably, hurt, and next thing we knew, it had become this thing, and I think it was probably the right decision to just let everything cool down.



OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Were you surprised by the media velocity?

JONATHAN FRANZEN (AUTHOR): Totally. Yes. Totally. It was probably the big thing I learned from the experience, which was to have more respect for television. Writers, I think, resent, they fear, they envy television, because it's so powerful and so omnipresent, and, you know, I think you don't respect the power that it has, and then you don't figure out how to communicate in a televised age. You start--you talk like a writer, but things are happening at this kind of TV velocity.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But I have to tell you, the reason I had to go back and read the press clips, because I was thinking, "Did I cancel the book club? I don't think I did." What I actually said was, "All right, if you were uncomfortable," and the impression at the time was that you were being a snob.

JONATHAN FRANZEN (AUTHOR): Right.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's the impression I think most people got, and was that true or not?

JONATHAN FRANZEN (AUTHOR): I am a Midwestern egalitarian. I do not think of myself as a snob. My idea of the book I want to write, the book I want to read, is one that everybody can find a way to connect to. That's really what I've devoted my whole career to.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. But that's what you do. That's what you do.

JONATHAN FRANZEN (AUTHOR): Exactly, but the problem is, in the kind of accelerated media scape, if you say, "I don't want to scare away male readers," that comes through as, "Franzen Can't Stand Women Readers," or, "I went to college, and I'm interested in a certain kind of literary novel," that means, "He disdains, you know, entertainment." And when you have a polarized cultural environment, too, the two things go together very quickly to hero/villain sort of polarity.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): They're looking for whatever they can.

JONATHAN FRANZEN (AUTHOR): Exactly.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, bottom line is, I'm happy to have you.

JONATHAN FRANZEN (AUTHOR): I'm happy to be here.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We'll be right back.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We're back with author Jonathan Franzen, whose new book "Freedom" is our current book club selection. I can't say enough good things about that book,



and neither can anybody else, I guess, because the whole world is talking about it. It really is the book of the year, I think, maybe the decade. So, what has all of this attention--my goodness, cover of "Time" magazine, the president of the United States calls you, millions of people are picking up your book and reading it, being exposed to your wonderful craft of using words to open our hearts and our minds--what does that mean to you?

JONATHAN FRANZEN (AUTHOR): I'm still trying to figure that out, frankly.


JONATHAN FRANZEN (AUTHOR): Yeah. It's weird to actually have attained an audience of people who seem to enjoy the work because that's what you work toward, but then when you find you have it, it's like, oh, well, that's this elephant in the room of being me now. There's like people actually think I'm somebody, but I can't walk around feeling like I'm somebody and still have a private life. So I feel like I've got some months of figuring that out ahead of me after I finish up here.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What is your process? I want to know how you do this.

JONATHAN FRANZEN (AUTHOR): Uh, (laugh)

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I hear you isolate yourself when you write.

JONATHAN FRANZEN (AUTHOR): Yeah. I think the goal is to try to produce a book that can stand up to the noisy culture, that will suck you away from all of the distractions that we're bombarded with, and to do that work, you have to isolate yourself from those distractions, too. So the main thing is no Internet, no telephone at the office.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. And you go to an office and write?

JONATHAN FRANZEN (AUTHOR): I do go to an office. It's dark. It's cold. It's as quiet as I can make it, and there I try to think about the things that make me the most uncomfortable.


JONATHAN FRANZEN (AUTHOR): Yeah, and the things I most don't want to think about, and I do that for years and make myself miserable but also start to figure...

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): (laugh)

JONATHAN FRANZEN (AUTHOR): ...start to figure out what the real deep conflicts in myself are, and I have this theory that if I can figure out what's going on in myself and pay careful enough attention, it starts to maybe mirror what's going on in the culture.



OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What is so really, I think, remarkable about you--your writing is that you get the nuances, and then--don't you think? When you get the nuances and then when we're reading it, it's like, "Oh, yeah." What is that?

JONATHAN FRANZEN (AUTHOR): A lot of it does have to do with turning the noise down. I think we have about 100 times more noise than we need, and if you get rid of 99% of it so instead of dealing with a million things coming at you, you're only dealing with 1,000, you can actually pay attention to those 1,000 things. You can see them one at a time, and then what the novelist does is orders a couple thousand things like that into some meaningful narrative. That's the work.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm, and where did this story "Freedom" start with you in your head?

JONATHAN FRANZEN (AUTHOR): It really started with the voice of the main female character.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay.

JONATHAN FRANZEN (AUTHOR): Which I just happened upon one day while producing some bad piece of work that wasn't working, but this voice stood out. So I had that in the drawer for years, and I was really working toward finding an appropriate novel for this character to be in. I was doing a couple of other things. I was interested in my parents' marriage, but I didn't want to write about the 1940's. I wanted to write more or less about now. So I was trying to imagine what they would've been like if they were my age. But I was also very, you know, the book was coming into being in a very, very angry time politically, a very polarized time, and I wanted to try to investigate that, inhabit that anger, and find some way to get beyond it.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. Wasn't one of the questions--I'd read this, that you'd said that we all have access to everything. We have more material possessions now than we've ever had before. We have access to be able to travel and correspond with people all over the world, and yet people seem more discontent and angrier than ever.

JONATHAN FRANZEN (AUTHOR): It's a really striking paradox. The richest country in the history of the earth, and everybody is p.o.'d all the time. Like, it doesn't really speak well for the ability of material success to bring happiness, does it?

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): No.

JONATHAN FRANZEN (AUTHOR): Yeah.



OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): No. And so you wanted to deal with this whole idea of richest country, most freedoms of anybody in the world, and what is the notion of real freedom, what that brings to us.

JONATHAN FRANZEN (AUTHOR): Sure. Yeah.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Jon has agreed to hang out after the show and take questions from our audience full of "Freedom" fans. If you'd like to see more of our book discussion, go to Oprah.com/book club, and I can't tell you what an honor it is, really.

JONATHAN FRANZEN (AUTHOR): It's really great to be here.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): To have you here. Thank you.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We'll be right back with our new book. That was good.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I'm about to announce my next book club selection. It will be number 65--yeah, 65 books--just in time for the holidays, which means you still can get "Freedom." I think "Freedom" is a wonderful book to give for Christmas. This is also the perfect gift to give your friends and family and to yourself, so without further ado, I'm going old old-school, people. This is old old-school. My new book--or should I say books--are "A Tale of Two Cities" and "Great Expectations." Dickens for the holidays. Dickens for the holidays because it's the best of times, readers. Our new selection is a special deluxe Penguin edition of two timeless classics that you can read and pass on to your children because books do matter. We're still going to be holding books in our hands for years to come. It's beautiful, I have to say. Thank you to Penguin because they did this. We just decided this, like, a week ago, and it's beautiful. I love the print inside. You can actually read it without glasses. Normally, I only choose books that I've read, but I must shamefully admit to you all that I have never read Dickens. (gasps)

Oh, gasp. Shame. I told my producers, "I've always wanted to read Dickens over the holidays," and I thought, "I can do that now." Voila. That's what we're going to do, and I can't wait to read along with all of you. So I hear you're a fan.

JONATHAN FRANZEN (AUTHOR): Love him. Yeah. Read everything.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "Tale of Two Cities," is it what everybody says?

JONATHAN FRANZEN (AUTHOR): Yeah. It's a total page-turner. It's terrific.

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Good selection. Go to Oprah.com. Check out our date with Dickens. We have a date with Dickens reading schedule. This is going to be so fun, a date with Dickens. Curl up with your blanket, mug of chocolate or cocoa or Moscow mule, and Charles Dickens, and as a special thank-you to this audience full of loyal readers, our friends at Amazon.com, because I'm also a Kindle reader, are giving everybody their new Kindle 3G.



OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So you can enjoy--yes. What a lovely gift for Christmas. I love holding a real book in my hand, but I can tell you, if you're traveling, you've got to love the Kindle. I say get both. Thank you, Amazon. Okay. Elves, bring out the books and the Kindles.

THE UNTOLD STORY BEHIND MICHAEL JACKSON'S … · OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Today, all new, for the...

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