The SDN Face-Off-VMware NSX vs. Cisco ACI

7/17/2019 The SDN Face-Off-VMware NSX vs. Cisco ACI

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The SDN Face-Of: VMware NSX vs. CiscoACI

The Software-Dened Networking Face-O: VMware NSX vs. isco !"

There's a ferocious battle going on in the software-denednetworking (SDN) market between onetime allies VMware and iscoS!stems" To shed light on their res#ecti$e SDN strategies% &Ns#oke with Ste$e Mullane! (right)% former of Nicira who isste##ing aside as general manager of VMware's Network andSecurit! usiness e*ecti$e Se#t" +,% and shmael .imkakeng% $ice#resident of #roduct management for isco's /##lication entricnfrastructure" The se#arate inter$iews with the two e0ecuti$es o*er

a rare glim#se into a shar#l! di$ergent technolog! #ath the twocom#anies are taking"

Ishmael Limkakeng, Cisco (Left), Steve Mullaney, VMware(Right)

Is Cisco taking a harware-e!ne a""roach vs. a so#twarea""roach #ro$ VMware%

1e sa!% '2i0 it in a software-dened wa!"' isco sa!s% '2i0 it with/Ss and a hardware-dened wa!"' 1hat is great about that is whatif isco came out with almost e0actl! the same wa! that we said31e would be screwed because -- !ou know what3 --customers would



listen to their #itch and then listen to our #itch and then thecustomer would go% ' can't tell the di*erence" t sounds the same"'

--Steve Mullaney, VMware

&hat is 'o(r res"onse to M())ane'*s c)ai$s that ACI is a+harware-e!ne+ so)(tion%

The hardware-dened or software-dened 4argument5 is sort ofbeside the #oint" ustomers at the end of the da!% the! ha$e a#roblem the! are tr!ing to sol$e" /nd the #roblem that is resonatingwith our customers is how do we hel# them de#lo! their a##licationsmore e*ecti$el!% more e6cientl!% turn them u#% s#in them down% inthe best o#erational manner that the! can" think we are seeingthat our customers like the com#rehensi$e solution"

The s#ecic4s of5 hardware-dened or software-dened -- mean% don't know that that is something customers necessaril! s#end a lotof time worr!ing about"

--Ishmael Limkakeng, Cisco

&hat is the ke' iference ,etween Cisco an VMware SDN%

42or isco5% /Ss are the ke!" That is the ke! 4di*erence5"

1hat is great about that is 4we5 are $er! di*erent" 1hat ends u#ha##ening is it becomes a #rofession of faith" 1hat do !ou belie$e31ithin 7, minutes% a customer knows8 ' am going the VMware wa!'or 'No#e% trust isco" trust m! /Ss" ha$e been doing it thatwa! for 9, !ears" am going to go that wa!"'

Then we go :% that is ne" That is not the wa! the world is going"ut that is :% !ou can go that wa!"

The worst thing is if isco 4a##roached5 software-dened e0actl! 4aswe do5% we would be screwed because the customer would go% 'can't tell the di*erence"' /nd when the! can't tell the di*erence%the! #ick the incumbent"


So what is the ke' iference ,etween Cisco an VMwareSDN%

NS; is fundamentall! a software-based o$erla! and is com#letel!se#arated from the underl!ing hardware% which is reall! interesting



if !ou ha$e a #urel! $irtual en$ironment and relati$el! small scale" Then !ou're ne" ut in real customer #roduction en$ironments%there are alwa!s both #h!sical and $irtual workloads% there are $er!fre<uentl! multi-h!#er$isor en$ironments% and !ou ha$e to be able

to t into those real-world situations"


&hat is the anger #or c(sto$ers o# the ACI a""roach toso#tware-e!ne networking%

isco is actuall! aggressi$el! #ricing the hardware% which think isfantastic" That shows the trend which sa!s the mone! is going out of the hardware and it is going into software" That is ha##ening" Soguess what3 isco is not reall! a software com#an!" /nd am nottalking routing #rotocols" The! are not a distributed s!stemscom#uting software com#an!" VMware is" Nicira was" isco ishardware% and !ou #rogram the hardware" =ou might write somemanagement #latforms" /nd !ou might write some rmware androuting #rotocols" ut that stu* has been done for 9> !ears"


&hat are the a"")ication ,ene!ts o# ACI vs. NSX%

think that what !ou ha$e with /% if !ou think about a customerand a customer en$ironment% the! ha$e #h!sical and $irtualen$ironments% #h!sical and $irtual workloads% the! ha$e #robabl! a$ariet! of di*erent securit! de$ices% load balancers% managementand o#erations s!stems -- think / e0cels at bringing all those#ieces together% whether it's #h!sical or $irtual% and bringing ittogether to sol$e in a com#rehensi$e wa!"


Is there a iference ,etween VMware as a so#twareco$"an' an Cisco as a harware co$"an'%

/s things mo$e more toward software% who do !ou think is going tocome out with better software -- a software com#an! or a hardwarecom#an!3 know where would bet"

1e don't ha$e to roll around in the mud because we know theoutcome" 1h! do want to roll around in the mud3 t is ?ust going to

make me get all dirt! and distracted" So we ?ust ele$ate it" 1e ?uststa! out of it" /s 4VMware 5 @at Aelsinger sa!s8 'isco needs us



to lose" 1e don't need isco to lose"' 1e don't hate isco" The! hateus because of what we could end u# doing to their franchise" ut we ?ust shrug our shoulders and sa!% 'That is the wa! the world is going"So get o$er it"'


&hat is 'o(r res"onse to M())ane'*s c)ai$s that Cisco is nota so#tware co$"an'%

/t the end of the da!% we are tr!ing to sol$e the #roblems forcustomers% whether it's hardware% software or whate$er thetechnolog!"

will tell !ou that% from an o$erall business stand#oint% we ha$ealwa!s had a tremendous software com#onent in our engineering" don't ha$e this 4number5 at m! ngerti#s% but if !ou look at theheadcount from an engineering stand#oint% we ha$e alwa!s hadmore software engineering than hardware engineering" /nd from abusiness stand#oint% !ou heard 4isco @resident% De$elo#ment andSales%5 &ob .lo!d s#eak about this and 4isco 5 Bohn 4hambers5s#eak about this8 The direction for the com#an!% as a whole% not ?ustthis area in #articular% is to increase the amount of business that is#urel! related to software business and software business models"


&hat is the iference when 'o( a new #(nctiona)it' withCisco ASICs vs. VMware so#tware%

isco is going to sa!% '1ell% it is not in that /S"' 1ell% when is itgoing to be in that /S3 'Two !ears"' :" 1ell% then% what ha##ensafter two !ears3 '1ell% then% after two !ears !ou ri# that line cardout"' Now !ou are #robabl! going to need a new back#lane% #robabl!

some new #ower su##lies"

t is #rett! good for me because get to ?ust re#lace it with all kindsof stu*% and that is how make m! mone! with infrastructure" f thatis how !ou are making !our mone! in infrastructure% !ou can't doan!thing other than a hardware-dened world" 1hat is isco goingto sa!% '=eah% the!'re right3 1e are going to #romote software-dened and the hardware is generaliCed3'




Does Cisco*s #oc(s on the ASIC $ake it to(gher to a new#(nctiona)it' to ACI%

/ deli$ers $alue at the software la!er% the s!stem la!er% all the

wa! down to the /S" The wa! would look at it is we use the bestof both merchant silicon and custom /Ss% and the combination ofthat allows us to deli$er an!thing that com#etiti$e solutions cano*er because we do make use of the merchant silicon and we caninno$ate on to# of that" So% our ca#abilit! in /Ss and our breadthwith our customer base% think% gi$es us an ad$antage of being ableto bring inno$ation to market faster because we get to le$eragewhat e0ists in the industr! and go be!ond that" That is our strateg!from that stand#oint"


&hat are the cost consierations c(sto$ers #ace in theVMware vs. Cisco SDN ,att)e%

won't gi$e !ou names% but man!% man! #eo#le actuall! will use theca#e0 a$oidance of bu!ing more isco gear to #a! for our stu*" Sothe! sa!% 'isco tells us we ha$e to u#grade ha$e got to get rid ofthe Ne0us ?ust bought two !ears ago" Now ha$e to go get theE,,, and the / chi# and as long as do all of that% e$er!thing will

be ne"' /nd e$en though it is chea#% the #ain of retrotting andri##ing out gear% ha$en't met an T #erson !et who wants to dothat. t is #ainful"


&hat are the cost consierations c(sto$ers #ace in theVMware vs. Cisco SDN ,att)e%

think !ou are going to nd that NS; is much% much more e0#ensi$e

F whether it's their #rice-#er-socket #ricing model or their VM-#er-month #ricing model" f !ou take that and com#are it to /% / issignicantl! more cost-e*ecti$e and more functional" /nd !ou willsee analogies of this where #eo#le com#are NS; but lea$e out thecost of the com#ute that the NS; controller and gatewa!s% etc" arerunning on% and it lea$es out the cost of the underl!ing networking-- whether it's isco's or somebod! else's% there is a network there"

So% when !ou do that com#arison% !ou are going to nd that NS; is#rohibiti$el! e0#ensi$e"




&hat are the sec(rit' ,ene!ts o# (sing NSX vs. theco$"etition%

/n! other alternati$e has #erformance #roblems because the! are

not in the kernel or !ou ha$e to bu! hunking% big #h!sical gearbecause now there is so much tra6c that !ou ha$e to steer towardit% which means !ou need big #i#es going into monster bo0es thatare hundreds of thousands of dollars and !ou need a lot of them"/nd then there is the com#le0it! of the o#erations" Then when !ouwant to roll out a new a##lication or !ou want to mo$e a VM or !ouwant to do something% !ou then ha$e to get #h!sical securit! #eo#leto go in and actuall! touch the bo0es" That ?ust makes it anonstarter"


&hat are the sec(rit' ,ene!ts o# (sing ACI vs. theco$"etition%

2rom a securit! stand#oint% it's #art of the o$erall ecos!stem" 1eha$e man! securit! #artners and man! management andmonitoring #artners in the ecos!stem" The other as#ect is thatinternall! to /% because we ha$e $er! strong #olic! ca#abilities forthe infrastructure% we dene how de$ices and end#oints and

com#onents of a##lications connect to each other" That makes it inherentl! more secure than ?ust the traditional o#enconnecti$it!" So think from a segmentation and securit! stand#oint%/ reall! is a su#erior solution because we get to le$erage andwork with a broad arra! of #artners% as well as what we ha$e donewithin the s!stem itself"


Ta)k a,o(t the co$"etition with Cisco with NSX.

There is 2GD 4fear% uncertaint! and doubt5" 1hen !ou are theincumbent and !ou don't ha$e an!thing% what do !ou do3 =ou throwsmoke bombs in the middle of the room" =ou ?ust want totalconfusion" almost couldn't ha$e scri#ted it an! better m!self"4isco5 ga$e us instant credibilit!"

alling us #ublic enem! No" 7% !ou know what that did3 Auess what%an!one who had ne$er heard of NS; before that was calling us u#"




Ta)k a,o(t the co$"etition with VMware.

think what !ou see with VMware% and there are other #la!ers inthis market and in markets isco is in% but we ha$e a $er! strong

#artnershi# with VMware and a formal one with M and VMware inV" 1e ha$e a lot of #laces where we go to market together and alot of common customers" /t the same time% clearl!% in this#articular s#ace% we are going to be com#etitors and don't thinkeither com#an! is sh! about sa!ing that or has an! illusions that weare going to be com#etiti$e in certain #laces and we are going to be$er! coo#erati$e in other #laces because that's what customerse0#ect out of both com#anies"


&hat o 'o( think a,o(t Cisco Interc)o(%

So who is going to do ntercloud3 None of the good cloud #ro$iders"&ight" =ou want to bu! /3 .ook% ma!be 9, !ears ago" The! calledit isco @owered Networks" That is what the! did" The! said% '.ook%we ha$e got isco in our ser$ice #ro$ider networks" Mr" nter#rise%!ou should run isco because it will work better"' ome on" That's'H,s talk"

The world has changed" t doesn't matter"

That is a #la!book from 9, !ears ago" t worked 9, !ears ago" t isgoing to fail miserabl! this !ear" 1ho is going to do that3


&hat*s 'o(r res"onse to M())ane'*s c)ai$s that no *goo*c)o( "roviers are going to e")o' Interc)o(%

That's an interesting comment" 1e launched ntercloud with Telstra%

which is a #rett! good customer and #ro$ider to begin with% but wecan #ro$ide !ou with the list of #eo#le who ha$e signed on" f Ste$e4Mullane!5 or an!bod! else thinks the! are 'bad' #ro$iders% 'm surethe! would be $er! interested to know" don't ha$e the list at m!ngerti#s% but it's a #rett! e0tensi$e list% and it's growing ra#idl!"


So how oes the so#tware-e!ne NSX $oe) change the

ata center ga$e vs. Cisco%



The s#ike into the heart for hardware-dened is there are going tobe things like $Motion that !ou can't do in a hardware-dened wa!"ecause it is software-dened% the rate of inno$ation of software $s"/Ss is an order of magnitude" So !ou start coming out with all

kinds of new features" Then !ou go% 'Iow do !ou do that in /3'/nd the! sa!% '1e can't"' ut !ou know what3 't is on our road ma#"'AreatJ 1hen3 '=ears"' /nd then !ou ha$e to ri# and re#lace $s"software !ou ?ust u#load"

/t some #oint% the! are ?ust going to fall" t will get no better forthem than it is right now"


&hat*s 'o(r res"onse to co$"etitors who sa' ACI isn*t an*o"en* s'ste$%

ne of the ke! focuses that we had with / is to make sure it is aso#en a s!stem as #ossible"

1e are doing a tremendous amount of work with our #artners% withthe o#en communit!% whether it's #enStack or #enDa!light% tobring the #olic! model and make it common across the industr! sothat e$er!bod! can #artici#ate" /nd think when !ou reall! dig intoit% we are reall! making a lot of #rogress and traction on that front

with other #la!ers in the industr!" / lot of #eo#le claim to be o#en%but when !ou dig into it in realit!% there tends to be more lock-inthan is ad$ertised" So we are $er! #leased with the #rogress we aremaking on that front"


&hat is the $essage to the channe) regaring NSX%

t is 'go time"' 1e ha$e hundreds of #artners now" t will be #robabl!high-digit hundreds end of !ear worldwide and thousands in 9,7>"1e'll add hundreds of customers #er <uarter this !ear" So we will behigh-digit hundreds of customers" 1e don't talk about the numbers" The onl! reason we talked about the number at all was becauseisco was sa!ing we onl! had $e customers" 'd sa!% '.ook% when was at Nicira we had 7> customers and that was four !ears ago" So think ha$e a little more than $e customers"'


Ta)k a,o(t "rogress to ate with ACI.



1e ha$e been $er! #leased with the #rogress we ha$e had withboth the Ne0us E,,, and /" 1e are o$er >H, customers for theE,,, and o$er K, for the / solution% in a $er! short #eriod of time"So we are $er! ha##! with the #rogress on that front" think the

message% at least from our #ers#ecti$e% around /##lication entricnfrastructure and the need for a com#rehensi$e solution% aso##osed to a $er! narrow software-onl! solution% is actuall!resonating with our customers and think we are starting to see thatin the traction"


The LFace-Of: VMware NSX vs. Cisco ACI from

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The SDN Face-Off-VMware NSX vs. Cisco ACI

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