The Mormon Challenge 5-22-2016.docx

8/16/2019 The Mormon Challenge 5-22-2016.docx

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The Mormon ChallengeA presentation of the other side of Mormonism using LDS-approved sources


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Table of ContentsIntroduction 3

Sources Used 4PART ONE: THE SCRIPTURES 5

Te !oo" of #or$on 5

Tree of Life Vision 5

Evangelical Sources 6

Conviction and Moronis !romise ""

Translation "#

The "$%& Edition '"

(ing )ames *i+le''

The La, of Moses '6

Trinitarian Doctrine '$

Contradictions '#

Vie, of the e+re,s %'

.ther !otential Sources %5

Chiasmus %$

Sidne/ 0igdon 1&

.ther !oints 11

Te %octrine and Co&enants 4'

The 0od of 2ature 16

3saiah and Esaias 14

Adam and Michael 1$

DC "# 1#

!ure Language 1#

Te !oo" of Abraa$ 5(

Te )inderoo" Plates 53

PART T*O: THE CHURCH 54

Te Restoration 54

"$%' irst Vision Account 51


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"$%5 Account 55

!eter7 )ames7 and )ohn 55

Pol+,a$+ and Pol+andr+ 5'

3n !ractice 56

0easons for !ol/gam/ 5#

Effect on 8omen 6&

!u+lic Denial 6%

Te Te$-le ''

Pro-ets and Re&elators '.

Special 8itnesses of Christ 64

!rophets64

0evelators9 The 8ord of 8isdom 6#

0evelators9 The !lan of Salvation 6#

0evelators9 The Mouthpiece of :od 4"

0ace and the !riesthood 4%

8omen 46

omose;ualit/ 4$

.n 3ntimac/ $%

The )ournal of Discourses as a Source $%

*lood Atonement $5

Adam-:od Theor/ $4

Miscellaneous uestions 3ve had regarding Mormonism? 3

+egan this research ,hen 3 decided that 3 could not +e an honest see=er of truth ,hen 3

,as deli+eratel/ avoiding such research? This document provides m/ findings7 as ,ell

as the sources7 that /ou ma/ chec= the conte;t of each source? This is a ver/ sensitive

topic for man/ people? As /ou read some of this material for the first time7 /ou ma/

feel a terri+le sin=ing feeling? 3ve e;perienced it for m/self? 3t reminds me of ho, 3

feel ,hen 3 find out that something terri+le has happened? 3 ,ill recount some of m/

e;periences to help /ou out in that regard?


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Sources Used

3n a recent push for open information7 the church has pu+lished a series of irst

!residenc/-approved essa/s on lds?org? The list is provided at this lds?org lin= ?

Elder M? 0ussell *allard has advised that teachers @=no, the content of these

essa/s li=e /ou =no, the +ac= of /our hand? is tal= regarding these essa/s is

provided +/ Deserert 2e,s?

Another source that ,ill +e referenced is an organiBation called A30 Mormon

A30 ? Their goal is to provide faithful ans,ers to difficult gospel topics? This

Deseret 2e,s article discusses A30 and e;plains that the/ @engage even the most

challenging issues in a faithful manner? 8hen A30 provides ,hat 3 feel are

legitimate responses to concerns7 3 ,ill lin= to them and discuss their counters?

3 ,ill also lin= to efflindsa/?com7 another apologist site7 ,hen he provides info

that 3 failed to find on A30s site?

osephsmithpapers?org is run +/ the Church istor/ Department7 as indicated atthe +ottom of their main page? The site is introduced on lds?org?

The trust,orthiness of other sources ,ill +e discussed as needed? 3 cant sa/ for

sure that an/ of these ,e+sites havent changed since 3 accessed them? 3f an/ given

>uote does not match the content on the provided lin=7 insert the full lin= into

@The purpose of these essa/s7 ,hich have +een approved +/ the irst !residenc/ and the


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https9IIarchive?isI? To get the full lin= and not m/ a++reviation for it7 simpl/ clic=

on it and the full lin= ,ill appear in /our +ro,ser? 8ith this method /ou can find

the >uote in past versions of each ,e+site? Some ,e+sites re>uired multiple

archive?is lin=s? 3 ,ill mar= such archive?is lin=s as "st7 'nd7 %rd7 etc? 3 ,ill provide

screenshots ,hen archiving ,as not possi+le?

Te !oo" of #or$on

Tree of ife ision

rom the ournal of )osephs mother compare ,ith " 2ephi $9

A30 mentions that Luc/ dictated the dream in "$157 suggesting that her account

,as influenced +/ language used in the *oo= of Mormon? The/ also point out that

/ou dont find )osephs famil/ accusing him of plagiariBing his fathers vision?

0esponse9 The detail present in Luc/s account suggests that she had access to

)oseph Smith Sr?s ,ritten acount? She recounts more of his dreams7 each ust as

detailed? T,o of these dreams are provided here? 3n the first7 Luc/ in "$15 even

sa/s that she is >uoting )oseph Sr?s dream @in his o,n ,ords? This sho,s that

Luc/ still had access to his ,ritten accounts? 8hen she doesnt remem+er to sa/

@in his o,n ,ords7 li=e in the second dream "st page7 'nd page7 Luc/ still gives

Part One: Te Scri-tures

@3n "$""7 ,e moved from 0o/alton Vermont to Le+anon 2e, ampshire? And shortl/ after,e arrived here7 m/ hus+and had another ver/ singular VisionG J

K3 thought7 said he7 3 ,as travelling in an open desolate fieldJ? M/ guide ,ho stood +/

me7 saidG Kthis is the desolate ,orldG +ut travel on? J? 3N +eheld a +eautiful stream of,ater J? 3 could see a rope running along the +an=7 a+out as high as a man could reachG and +e/ond me J stood a tree7 such as 3 had never seen +efore9 J and it +ore a =ind of fruit7 Jas ,hite7 or ,hiter than sno,9 J3N +egan to eat of it7 and 3 found it delicious +e/onddescriptionG J 3 said in m/ heart7 3 cannot eat this alone7 3 must +ring m/ ,ife and children 7that the/ ma/ parta=e ,ith me? Accordingl/7 3 ,ent and +rought the famil/G J 3 +eheld aspacious +uilding J ,hich +uilding appeared to reach to the ver/ heavens? 3t ,as full of J people that ,ere ver/ finel/ dressed9 J the/ pointed the finger of scorn at usG and treated us,ith all manner of disrespect and contempt? *ut their contumel/ ,e utterl/ disregarded? 3soon turned to m/ guide7 and in>uired of him7 the meaning of the fruit? e told me it ,asthe pure love of :od J e then commanded me to go and +ring the rest of m/ children F 3told him ,e ,ere all there? K2oG he replied7 Kloo= /onder7 /ou have t,o more J

HLuc/ Mac= smith

st nd rd

https://archive.is/https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/1-ne/8?lang=enghttp://en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Mormon/Plagiarism_accusations/Joseph_Smith,_Sr.'s_dream_and_Lehi's_visionhttp://josephsmithpapers.org/paperSummary/lucy-mack-smith-history-1845?p=75&highlight=another%20very%20singular%20dream#!/paperSummary/lucy-mack-smith-history-1845&p=59http://josephsmithpapers.org/paperSummary/lucy-mack-smith-history-1845?p=75&highlight=another%20very%20singular%20dreamhttp://archive.is/WYHXkhttp://archive.is/WYHXkhttp://archive.is/WYHXkhttp://archive.is/2b00Nhttp://archive.is/2b00Nhttp://archive.is/2b00Nhttps://archive.is/http://josephsmithpapers.org/paperSummary/lucy-mack-smith-history-1845?p=60&highlight=Royaltonhttp://archive.is/YH7v1http://archive.is/eXuO8http://archive.is/rtqXshttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/1-ne/8?lang=enghttp://en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Mormon/Plagiarism_accusations/Joseph_Smith,_Sr.'s_dream_and_Lehi's_visionhttp://josephsmithpapers.org/paperSummary/lucy-mack-smith-history-1845?p=75&highlight=another%20very%20singular%20dream#!/paperSummary/lucy-mack-smith-history-1845&p=59http://josephsmithpapers.org/paperSummary/lucy-mack-smith-history-1845?p=75&highlight=another%20very%20singular%20dreamhttp://archive.is/WYHXkhttp://archive.is/2b00N


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e;treme details7 such as descri+ing garden ,al=s as %?5 feet ,ide? Such details7

given decades later7 are unli=el/ if she ,as recounting these dreams from memor/?

)osephs famil/ could have +een led to +elieve that :od gave the same vision to

+oth Lehi and )oseph Smith Sr? .r7 ma/+e the/ did suspect )oseph of plagiarism7

and ,e dont have a record of it? 8hatever the case7 this is simpl/ an indicator that

either Lehi and )oseph Smith Sr? had the same vision7 or )oseph +orro,ed some of

the good material in the *oo= of Mormon from outside sources?

E&an,elical Sources

:od ma/ have revealed the *oo= of Mormon in the language of )osephs time?

There is7 ho,ever7 more than ust earl/ "#th centur/ ,ords +eing used? These

3sraelites are using the same uni>ue phrases and concepts as "$thIearl/ "#th centur/

evangelicals? 3t seems that much of the good material in the *oo= of Mormon ,as

alread/ present in )osephs region and time period? Could )oseph have heard these

phrases and teachings echoed in the congregations of his areaO

E;ample9 The American Tract Societ/7 fourth report "$"$ "N

@sing the song of praise to 0edeeming love7

J

Alma 59'6 P @if /e have felt to sing the song of

redeeming love7 J

To @sing the song of redeeming love is a more uni>uel/ evangelical

phraseIconcept than something li=e @reoicing in redemption?

)onathan Ed,ards7 )r? "415-"$&" vs? Alma 1'9

Ed2ards 6r7 !oo" of #or$on

Qthis life is the onl/ state of pro+ation JQ Alma 1'9"% P @on conditions of repentance

of men in this pro+ationar/ state7 J

Q:od must +e ust as ,ell as merciful?Q Alma 1'9"5 P @a perfect7 ust :od7 and a

merciful :od also?

QSNin is not imputed ,hen there is no la,?Q Alma 1'9"4 P @o, could he sin if there

,as no la,O

@3t is generall/ agreed that murder deserves

death? *ut suppose a la, should +e made7 +/

,hich no murderer should +e punished +/

deathJ? 8ould not such a la, as this J

Alma 1'9"# P @2o,7 if there ,as no la,

given P if a man murdered he should die P

,ould he +e afraid he ,ould die if he should

murderO

http://archive.org/stream/proceedingsoffir00ame/proceedingsoffir00ame_djvu.txthttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/5.26?lang=eng#25https://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane01edwa#page/130/mode/2uphttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/42.13%2C15%2C17%2C19%2C20%2C22?lang=eng#12https://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane01edwa#page/264/mode/2uphttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/42.13%2C15%2C17%2C19%2C20%2C22?lang=eng#14https://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane01edwa#page/142/mode/2uphttps://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane01edwa#page/142/mode/2uphttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/42.13%2C15%2C17%2C19%2C20%2C22?lang=eng#16https://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane01edwa#page/248/mode/2uphttps://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane01edwa#page/248/mode/2uphttps://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane01edwa#page/248/mode/2uphttps://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane01edwa#page/248/mode/2uphttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/42.13%2C15%2C17%2C19%2C20%2C22?lang=eng#128http://archive.org/stream/proceedingsoffir00ame/proceedingsoffir00ame_djvu.txthttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/5.26?lang=eng#25https://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane01edwa#page/130/mode/2uphttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/42.13%2C15%2C17%2C19%2C20%2C22?lang=eng#12https://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane01edwa#page/264/mode/2uphttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/42.13%2C15%2C17%2C19%2C20%2C22?lang=eng#14https://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane01edwa#page/142/mode/2uphttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/42.13%2C15%2C17%2C19%2C20%2C22?lang=eng#16https://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane01edwa#page/248/mode/2uphttps://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane01edwa#page/248/mode/2uphttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/42.13%2C15%2C17%2C19%2C20%2C22?lang=eng#128


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tend to encourage murderO

@if there ,ere no punishment threatened to

the ,ic=ed7 it ,ould naturall/ and directl/

encourage them to persist in vice?

Alma 1'9'& P @if there ,as no la, given

against sin men ,ould not +e afraid to sin?

Qthe general good re>uires7 that sin +e

punished according to its demerit7J

other,ise :od ,ould not appear to +e ,hat

he reall/ is JQ

Alma 1'9'' P @the la, inflicteth the

punishmentG if not so7 the ,or=s of ustice

,ould +e destro/ed7 and :od ,ould cease to

+e :od?

The Confession of aith "4$$ vs? Alma 1&-1" and other passages9

2ote9 This isnt as +ad as it loo=s7 as an/ Christian description of :ods plan

,ould appear similar? Doctrinal contradictions here ,ill +e discussed on p? "&?

Te Confession of 8ait !oo" of #or$on

%'9"-' P @after death7 J their souls7 ,hich

neither die nor sleep7 having an immortal

su+sistence7 immediatel/ return to :od ,ho

gave them9 the souls of the righteous7 +eing

then made perfect in holiness7 are received

into the highest heavens7 J ,aiting for the

full redemption of their +odies?J And the

souls of the ,ic=ed are cast into hell7 ,here

the/ remain in torments and utter dar=ness7reserved to the udgment of the great da/ J

all the dead shall +e raised up7 ,ith the

selfsame +odies7 and none other although

,ith different >ualities7 ,hich shall +e

united again to their souls forever?

Alma 1&9""-"17 '% P @the spirits of all men7

as soon as the/ are departed from this mortal

+od/7 /ea7 the spirits of all men7 ,hether the/

+e good or evil7 are ta=en home to that :od

,ho gave them life? And then shall it come to

pass7 that the spirits of those ,ho are

righteous are received into a state of

happiness7 ,hich is called paradise7 J the

spirits of the ,ic=ed7 /ea7 ,ho are evil Jshall +e cast out into outer dar=ness J thus

the/ remain in this state7 as ,ell as the

righteous in paradise7 until the time of their

resurrection J The soul shall +e restored to

the +od/7 and the +od/ to the soulG /ea7 and

ever/ lim+ and oint shall +e restored to its

+od/G /ea7 even a hair of the head shall not

+e lostG J

33:1 P “:od hath appointed a da/7 ,herein

he ,ill udge the ,orld7 in righteousness7 J

all persons that have lived upon earth shall

appear +efore the tri+unal of Christ7 to give

an account of their thoughts7 ,ords7 and

deedsG and to receive according to ,hat the/

have done in the +od/7 ,hether good or evil?

Alma 1"9%-1 P @And it is re>uisite ,ith the

ustice of :od that men should +e udged

according to their ,or=sG and if their ,or=s

,ere good in this life7 and the desires of their

hearts ,ere good7 that the/ should also7 at

the last da/7 +e restored unto that ,hich is

good?J And if their ,or=s are evil the/ shall

https://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane01edwa#page/248/mode/2uphttps://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane01edwa#page/246/mode/2uphttps://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane01edwa#page/246/mode/2uphttps://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane01edwa#page/246/mode/2uphttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/42.13%2C15%2C17%2C19%2C20%2C22?lang=eng#19https://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane01edwa#page/140/mode/2uphttps://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane01edwa#page/140/mode/2uphttps://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane01edwa#page/140/mode/2uphttps://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane01edwa#page/140/mode/2uphttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/42.13%2C15%2C17%2C19%2C20%2C22?lang=eng#21http://www.pcaac.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/WCFScriptureProofs.pdfhttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/42.11-14%2C?lang=eng#10https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/41.3-4?lang=eng#2https://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane01edwa#page/248/mode/2uphttps://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane01edwa#page/246/mode/2uphttps://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane01edwa#page/246/mode/2uphttps://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane01edwa#page/246/mode/2uphttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/42.13%2C15%2C17%2C19%2C20%2C22?lang=eng#19https://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane01edwa#page/140/mode/2uphttps://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane01edwa#page/140/mode/2uphttps://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane01edwa#page/140/mode/2uphttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/42.13%2C15%2C17%2C19%2C20%2C22?lang=eng#21http://www.pcaac.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/WCFScriptureProofs.pdfhttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/42.11-14%2C?lang=eng#10https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/41.3-4?lang=eng#2


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+e restored unto them for evil?

Mosiah 19%& P @if /e do not ,atch

/ourselves7 and /our thoughts7 and /our

,ords7 and /our deeds7 J /e must perish?

#91 P @8hen :od converts a sinner7 and

translates him into the state of grace7 he

freeth him from his natural +ondage under

sinG and7 +/ his grace alone7 ena+les him

freel/ to ,ill and to do that ,hich is

spirituall/ goodG /et so7 as that +/ reason of

his remaining corruption7 he doth not

perfectl/7 nor onl/7 ,ill that ,hich is good7

+ut doth also ,ill that ,hich is evil?

' 2ephi '9'4 P @8herefore7 men are free

according to the fleshG and all things are

given them ,hich are e;pedient unto man?

And the/ are free to choose li+ert/ and

eternal life7 through the great Mediator of all

men7 or to choose captivit/ and death7 J

:oing +ac= to )onathan Ed,ards7 here are some additional e;amples9

6onatan Ed2ards 6r7 continued

@3f there +e moral good in an/ of these

tempers or actions7 there must +e moral evil

in the directl/ oppositeG and if there +e no

moral evil in the latter7 there is no moral

good in the formerG as if there ,ere no

natural evil in pain there ,ould +e no natural

good in pleasure?

' 2ephi '9"" P @or it must needs +e7 that

there is an opposition in all things? 3f not so7

m/ first+orn in the ,ilderness7 righteousness

could not +e +rought to pass7 neither

,ic=edness7 neither holiness nor miser/7

neither good nor +ad?

QThe original state ,as a state of order7

regularit/ and due su+ordination7 ,herein

ever/ person and thing ,ere in their proper

placesG so in this sense all things ,ill finall/

+e +rought +ac= to their original state JQ

Alma 1"91 P @Therefore7 all things shall +e

restored to their proper order7 J

6onatan Ed2ards Sr7 91.(301.5;

@the devil7 ,ho7 +ecause he is misera+le

himself7 is un,illing that others should +e

happ/?

' 2ephi '9'4 P @the devilG for he see=eth that

all men might +e misera+le li=e unto himself?

@hardness of heart and +lindness of mind. Ether 19"5 P @hardness of heart7 and +lindness

of mind7 J

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/mosiah/4.30?lang=eng#29https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/mosiah/4.30?lang=eng#29https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/2.27?lang=eng#26https://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane02edwa/worksofjonathane02edwa_djvu.txthttps://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane02edwa/worksofjonathane02edwa_djvu.txthttps://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane02edwa/worksofjonathane02edwa_djvu.txthttps://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane02edwa/worksofjonathane02edwa_djvu.txthttps://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane02edwa/worksofjonathane02edwa_djvu.txthttps://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane02edwa/worksofjonathane02edwa_djvu.txthttps://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane02edwa/worksofjonathane02edwa_djvu.txthttps://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane02edwa/worksofjonathane02edwa_djvu.txthttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/2.11?lang=eng#10https://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane01edwa#page/180/mode/2uphttps://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane01edwa#page/180/mode/2uphttps://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane01edwa#page/180/mode/2uphttps://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane01edwa#page/180/mode/2uphttps://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane01edwa#page/180/mode/2uphttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/41.4?lang=eng#3https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/41.4?lang=eng#3http://www.biblebb.com/files/edwards/je-justice.htmhttp://www.biblebb.com/files/edwards/je-justice.htmhttp://www.biblebb.com/files/edwards/je-justice.htmhttp://www.biblebb.com/files/edwards/je-justice.htmhttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/2.27?lang=eng#26https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/2.27?lang=eng#26http://www.ccel.org/ccel/edwards/sermons.sinners.htmlhttp://www.ccel.org/ccel/edwards/sermons.sinners.htmlhttp://www.ccel.org/ccel/edwards/sermons.sinners.htmlhttp://www.ccel.org/ccel/edwards/sermons.sinners.htmlhttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/ether/4.15?lang=eng#14https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/mosiah/4.30?lang=eng#29https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/2.27?lang=eng#26https://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane02edwa/worksofjonathane02edwa_djvu.txthttps://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane02edwa/worksofjonathane02edwa_djvu.txthttps://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane02edwa/worksofjonathane02edwa_djvu.txthttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/2.11?lang=eng#10https://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane01edwa#page/180/mode/2uphttps://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane01edwa#page/180/mode/2uphttps://archive.org/stream/worksofjonathane01edwa#page/180/mode/2uphttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/41.4?lang=eng#3http://www.biblebb.com/files/edwards/je-justice.htmhttp://www.biblebb.com/files/edwards/je-justice.htmhttp://www.biblebb.com/files/edwards/je-justice.htmhttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/2.27?lang=eng#26http://www.ccel.org/ccel/edwards/sermons.sinners.htmlhttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/ether/4.15?lang=eng#14


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@The/ are enemies to :od in their affections?

There is in ever/ natural man a seed of

malice against :od?

Mosiah %9"# P @or the natural man is an

enem/ to :od7 J

@The/ su+ect themselves to him the devilN7

J

Moroni 49"4 P @the/ ,ho su+ect themselves

unto him the devilN J

Qstrivings of his Spirit JQ Moroni $9'$ P @the Spirit hath ceased striving

,ith themG J

@gulf of ,oe and miser/? ' 2ephi "9"% P @gulf of miser/ and ,oe?

@a livel/ and admiring sense of J @sensi+le

of their o,n guilt7 J

Mosiah '9%$ P @a livel/ sense of his o,n

guilt7 J

@suffer the second death? Alma "%9%& P @suffer the second death?

@Christs condescension J " 2ephi ""9"6 P @condescension of :odO

@infinite goodness J ' 2ephi "9"& P @infinite goodness J

@an ignominious death J Alma "9"5 P @an ignominious death?


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,ith them7 J

Alfred !ennett 91.(0>;

@ma/ the Saviours image +e impressed on

/our heart R

Alma 59"1 P @ave /ou received his image in

/our countenancesO

Alma 59"# P @can /ou loo= up7 having the

image of :od engraven upon /our

countenancesO

)eff Lindsa/ argues that ustice and merc/ arent ne, topics? e defends the use of

the phrases @)ustice of :od and @!lan of Salvation7 +ut doesnt address the rest?

Most of the a+ove phrases invo=e more complicated concepts and are more

uni>uel/ evangelical than Lindsa/s e;amples? e mentions that some of thesermons ,ere apparentl/ not in print until "$'# and is honest to remind us that

)oseph ma/ have heard them indirectl/ +efore then7 as these preachers ,ere ,ell-

=no,n and influential?

The evangelicals designed their

sermons to move churchgoers to

repentance? 8ith such rhetoric7 the

*oo= of Mormon has produced a

similar effect among man/ mem+ers?Could passages li=e Almas call to

ta=e on Christs name Alma 5 or

(ing *enamins speech Mosiah '-

5 +e derivations of sermons that

)oseph ,itnessedO

The production of the *oo= of Mormon ,as mentioned as earl/ as "$'47 ,hich

provides sufficient time for )oseph to have visited congregations and compile

material? Apologists sometimes criticiBe the >uantit/ of ,or=s sho,n to have possi+l/ influenced the *oo= of Mormon? 3n more ancient times7 li+raries ,ere

often destro/ed and their ,or=s erased from e;istence? 3n contrast7 pu+lished

sources availa+le to )oseph or an/one ,ho helped him are pro+a+l/ still around

toda/7 and an/ research he did could still +e easil/ identified? 8e =no, from A30

p? 66 that )oseph +orro,ed from the reemasonr/? 3f he +orro,ed on one

Co$$ons lin"

https://archive.org/stream/memoirofalfredbe00harviala/memoirofalfredbe00harviala_djvu.txthttps://archive.org/stream/memoirofalfredbe00harviala/memoirofalfredbe00harviala_djvu.txthttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/5.14?lang=eng#13https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/5.14?lang=eng#13https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/5.19?lang=eng#18https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/5.19?lang=eng#18http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/mercy.shtmlhttp://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Methodist_camp_meeting_(1819_engraving).jpghttp://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Methodist_camp_meeting_(1819_engraving).jpghttp://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Methodist_camp_meeting_(1819_engraving).jpghttps://archive.org/stream/memoirofalfredbe00harviala/memoirofalfredbe00harviala_djvu.txthttps://archive.org/stream/memoirofalfredbe00harviala/memoirofalfredbe00harviala_djvu.txthttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/5.14?lang=eng#13https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/5.19?lang=eng#18http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/mercy.shtmlhttp://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Methodist_camp_meeting_(1819_engraving).jpg


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occasion7 did he also +orro, hereO The connection +et,een )onathan Ed,ards )r?

and Alma 1' is not ,ea=?

.f additional concern in the *oo= of Mormon is the preaching of a generic heaven

for the righteous and hell for the sinners Mosiah %9'1-'47 Alma 1&9""-"17 '%-'6?

According to those verses7 all are taken home to God right after death p? #?

nrighteous souls then remain in miser/ until the 0esurrection and )udgment7

after which the/ are in a state of fire and +rimstone-level torment7 @from ,hence

there is no return? 3n Mormonism7 after )udgment7 most of those ,ho do evil go

to the Telestial (ingdom7 ,hich is @far +etter than this ,orld ,e no, =no,?

Con&iction and #oroni?s Pro$ise

8hile tal=ing a+out other preachers and religions7 3m going to go hit this topic?

*ased on Moroni "&9%-5 and scriptures that descri+e the ol/ :host7 ,e have

learned to rel/ on feelings of peace7 promptingsIimpressions7 o/7 a

,hisperingIstill small voice7 or a +urning in the +osom to determine ,hether or not

something is true? 8e are also taught to e;amine ,hether or not the e;perience

enlarges our souls and invites us to do good? .n the follo,ing pages7 3 have

assem+led a collection of e;periences of those in other faiths? A30 reasons that

the Spirit confirms the portions of truth found in other religions? These people in

other faiths ,ould disagree7 especiall/ in those e;amples 3 give ,here the/ are led

specificall/ to their church7 or ,here the/ testif/ for things ,hich contradict

Mormonism? The/ interpret their e;periences to mean that the/ are in :ods onl/church and discuss ho, their lives have changed for the +etter doing good7

enlarged souls? 3f ,e dismiss their e;periences7 can ,e fault them for dismissing

oursO Does :od ,or= through these feelings7 ,hen the results are so conflictingO

Could :od7 via those feelings7 simpl/ +e leading us to the religion ,hich ,ould

+est help us to develop the a+ilit/ to love and +e of serviceO

3s it possi+le that part of lifes test is that none of the religions are trueO This

doesnt have to mean that ,e never get divine inspiration individuall/?

Can 3 =no, something +/ the po,er of the ol/ :host if 3m not sure that its the

ol/ :host that 3 feltO @The church sa/s its the ol/ :host and the ol/ :host

sa/s the church is true? 8hat if ,hat the church sa/s is the ol/ :host is actuall/

something elseO The people in the follo,ing pages have all felt ,hat 3 have felt7

and for things ,hich contradict Mormonism? 3s this a good s/stem for o+taining

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/mosiah/3.24-27?lang=eng#23https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/40.11-14%2C23-26?lang=eng#10http://emp.byui.edu/satterfieldb/quotes/Telestial.htmhttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/moro/10.3-5?lang=eng#2https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/6.23?lang=eng#22https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/8.2-3?lang=eng#1https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/11.13?lang=eng#10https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/85.6?lang=eng#5https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/85.6?lang=eng#5https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/9.8?lang=eng#7https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/32.28-31?lang=eng#27https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/moro/7.13?lang=eng#12https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/moro/7.13?lang=eng#12http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_other_religions/Spiritual_witnesseshttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/mosiah/3.24-27?lang=eng#23https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/40.11-14%2C23-26?lang=eng#10http://emp.byui.edu/satterfieldb/quotes/Telestial.htmhttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/moro/10.3-5?lang=eng#2https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/6.23?lang=eng#22https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/8.2-3?lang=eng#1https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/11.13?lang=eng#10https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/85.6?lang=eng#5https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/85.6?lang=eng#5https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/9.8?lang=eng#7https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/32.28-31?lang=eng#27https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/moro/7.13?lang=eng#12http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_other_religions/Spiritual_witnesses


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truthO 3s it man tr/ing to interpret po,erful feelings produced +/ the su+conscious

+rainO Can these feelings +e manipulated +/ peaceful settings7 uplifting music7 and

reverent voicesO .+serve ho, a church-o,ned media and +roadcasting compan/7

*onneville 3nternational7 sold its a+ilit/ to ma=e people @feel the spirit to other

organiBations? The/ have since removed this passage hence the archived page?

@.ur uni>ue strength is the a+ilit/ to touch the hearts and minds of our audiences7 evo=ing

first feeling7 then thought and7 finall/7 action? 8e call this uni>uel/ po,erful +rand of creativeQeartSellQ - strategic emotional advertising that stimulates response?

+onneville?com - Affecting Change archived version

@8e partner ,ith /ou7 to help /ou achieve U.0 o+ectives7 8e focus on solutions for /ou7

not simpl/ advertising7 +ut +ringing together and activating premium audiences ,ith

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1972/08/a-half-century-of-broadcasting-in-the-church?lang=enghttp://www.bonneville.com/?nid=32https://archive.is/I30yDhttps://archive.is/I30yDhttp://www.bonneville.com/?nid=32https://archive.is/I30yDhttps://www.lds.org/ensign/1972/08/a-half-century-of-broadcasting-in-the-church?lang=eng


13/103

ere are some testimonies of those in other faiths9

@*efore 3 reall/ learned

an/ of the doctrines ofthe church7 3 =ne, that

had an attraction to

something a+out the

Eucharist? 3 =ne, that i

,as transu+stantiated7

+ut 3 never @"ne2? unti

that moment during the

consecration at the

,edding?

forums?catholic?com - post %&

@3 thin= if theres one aspect of theCatholic aith that should ma=e Atheists7!rotestants7 and the ,hole ,ide ,orldta=e serious notice7 it ,ould +e thecountless first class7 +latant7 overt7authentic miracles that have ta=en placeonl/ in the Catholic Church? 3ts theultimate ,itness to the e;istence of :od7the validit/ of the :ospel7 and theCatholic aith? 3s there an/ other faith inthe ,orld that can +ac= up and validatetheir doctrines and teachings ,ith firstclass miraclesO

catholicforum?com - post "

@8hen 3 ,as around # 3 sa, the pope

on TV? All of a sudden 3 had anepiphan/ that he ,as our protestants

pope tooR 3t ,as so po,erful 3 ,ent

outside and ust gaBed up at the s=/J

Three months later after leaving the

cell church 3 ,as in 0C3AJ That

night7 ,hile 3 ,as l/ing in +ed I

eard a oice and 3t said @8elcome

ome? I "no2 2it e&er+ fiber of

$+ bein, tat It 2as te Hol+

S-irit7 3 =no, this sounds li=e fictionor pretentious fluff7 +ut it isnt? J 3

actuall/ e;perienced this ust as it is

,ritten? And 3 can tell /ou7 to +e a

@3 also started pra/ing a lot and pra/ing consistentl/ pro+a+l/

for the first time ever? 3 realiBed 3 couldnt do this on m/ o,n7

+ut 3 recogniBed the true gravit/ of this decision7 and so 3 tried to

clear m/ mind of all preconceptions and 3 honestl/ pra/ed on

man/ occasions over those months something li=e this9 K:od7 if an/ Christian sect holds truest to /our truth7 or if someho, the/

all do7 or certain ones do7 please sho, me so 3 =no, ho, to +est

,orship /ou? 3 ,ant /our TruthFno matter the cost? And 3 tried

to ma=e sure that 3 meant it? Eac ti$e tat I can re$e$ber

-ra+in, tat I ,ot an ans2er 2ic 2as alon, te lines of a

statistical $iracle though not >uite as grand as the first7 and

it al,a/s pointed to,ards Catholicism? 3 ,ould al,a/s feel at

peace after this ,as revealed to me7 not +ecause Catholicism is

the most comforting choice at a glance is St Leonard of !ort

Maurices rivate revelation or an thin for that matter more

Q.n a personal level7 3 have e;perienced +einKslain in the Spirit? 3 have seen miracles ,hen,e pra/ed for healing of peoples +odies7 orsituations? The most po,erful are times of praise ,here /ou enter into ecstas/ ,ith :od3ts li=e +eing in a ,arm ocean of loveR 2othing can touch thatR Some times ,hen 3m

reading Scripture7 the Catechism7 or if 3 hear great truth of :od 3 feel a sense of electricit+,o trou, $+ bod+? The ol/ Spirit isgetting m/ attentionR es sa/ing pa/attentionR 3 have this deep sense of)NO*IN


14/103

@3 remem+er feeling something

ph/sicall/ different a+out +eing

in a Catholic church than an/

other church 3 had ever +een in?

3 remem+er feeling 2ar$t

co$fort -eace and cal$ ,ashover me as 3 ,ould sit silentl ?

@3n the end7 there ,as not a

large neon sign sa/ing7 @*e

CatholicR on it? 3nstead7 there

,as a ,entle 2is-er in $+

soul7 3ts those soft ,hispers

that can have the most dramatic

@3t too= me a+out "% /ears from start to finish--%/ears of concerted stud/--+efore 3 ,as a+le todisentangle m/self from all m/ misinformationa+out Catholicism and ta=e the plunge? That ,asin "###? 8hats it +een li=e since thenO ,raceu-on ,race u-on ,race u-on ,race u-on

,race777777777777 no re,rets

forums?catholic?com - post ""

8i,ure 3 = !+ GJK LM0QMK 9Ser,e+ Il+in0#i"als"i; 9tt-:fot"i7+andeV7ruuserssdil+inalbu$1..3/; Public do$ainF &ia *i"i$edia Co$$ons lin"

@This process too= t,o /ears? 8e did not easil/ convert?

*ut ,e ,ere definitel/ ,ooed +/ :od? *oth of us7 at one

point7 ,ere s-o"en to b+ te Hol+ S-irit7 8ho told us7

KThis is the truth? 3f /ou reect it7 /ou are in danger of

hellfire? Do /ou accept M/ teaching and ,ill /ou sa/ Ues

to the Catholic ChurchO .r ,ill /ou reect M/ teachingO

8e accepted the teaching of the ol/ Spirit7 and in '&&17

,e ,ere received into the Catholic Church? 8e love +eing

CatholicR *ased on histor/ and theolog/7 ,e +elieve that

the Catholic Church is the Church that )esus Christ

founded and intended for human +eings to +e part of? 8e

+elieve that !rotestant churches have a portion of the

:ospel and that !rotestants have a hope of heaven through

their triune +aptism and their invinci+le ignorance? 8e

pra/ that the Church might one da/ +e .2E7 as )esus

pra/ed in )ohn "4?

-

@As 3 sat at m/ computer pla/ing games or ,hat

have /ou7 3 ,as overcome +/ a need to +e at

church the ne;t morning? This feeling came from

no,here and ,as completel/ at odds ,ith

ever/thing going on in m/ life at the time? Even

no,7 all 3 can tell /ou a+out it ,as that the ol/

Spirit gave me an a+solute7 no0doubt "no2led,e that 3 AD to +e at Church the ne;t morning? 3n

the +ac= of m/ mind7 it seemed li=e it should +e a

Catholic Church that 3 attend7 +ut the

over,helming message ,as that 3 attend church?

At this parish7 the/ offered +oth the host and the

cup? As 3 received each one7 it ,as almost li"e

bein, struc" b+ li,tnin,? 8hen 3 sa/ this7 3

mean that it ,as an actual ph/sical sensation of

electricit/ as 3 received each species? 3t ,as

something that 3 had never e;perienced +efore and

@As 3 stood there that night after m/ first confession7 3realiBed that all that ,as gone? The dar=ness ,ithin me ,assimpl/ not there an/more? 3n its place ,as -eace and anun$ista"able feelin, of lo&e7 or the first time7 3 felt the presence of :od?

,h/imcatholic?com - ormer Atheist

2ote9 This person e;perienced a familiar effect after

confessing sins7 even though the church leader did not have

!riesthood authorit/

Q3 as=ed the Lord )esus Christ for a sign to sho, that the True )esu

Church has the ,hole truth???? .ne da/7 3 ,as sitting under a tree7

thin=ing deepl/? 3 ,as tr/ing to recall some *i+le verses on +aptis

and pra/ing a+out a dou+t that 3 had? Suddenl/7 a miracle happeneme? It 2as li"e a li,t that 3 could not e;actl/ figure out? 3t sone

$e and too= a,a/ the dou+t in m/ mind? 3t seemed that the dar=n

in m/ mind ,as lifted? The doctrine on infant +aptism7 ,hich 3 cou

not at first accept7 suddenl/ +ecame ver/ clear me? 3 could then ac

it ,ith m/ mind and heart? Since that incident7 each time 3 read th

*i+le7 that former opinion to oppose and the refusal to +elieve and

accept ,ere gone? Toda/ 3 +elieve that infants must +e +aptiBed in

order to +e saved???? 2o, 3 "no2 and am confident that this is the

of m/ search for the ,hole truth? 3 than= the Lord )esus Christ for

ans,ering m/ pra/er and giving me a sign? 3 have found the ,holtruth of m/ salvation? :lor/ +e given to the name of our Lord )esu

Q.n the da/ 3 ,as +aptiBed 3 felt li"

2ole ne2 -erson? Since that da/7 3

have +een spending more time ,ith

Lord in m/ ever/da/ life? 3 amconvinced that the decision 3 made t

get +aptiBed ,as e;actl/ ,hat 3 need

in m/ life and 3 could not +e happier

than= :od ever/da/ for all of the

,onderful people in m/ life ,ho ha

helped me through ever/thing and h

supported me through this amaBing

transition into m/ ne, life in Christ

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=553484http://whyimcatholic.com/index.php/conversion-stories/atheist-converts/103-atheist-convert-jennifer-fulwilerhttp://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=553484http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=553484http://whyimcatholic.com/index.php/conversion-stories/atheist-converts/103-atheist-convert-jennifer-fulwilerhttp://wi.adventist.org/article/184/resources/testimonies


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Q3 remem+er getting to a point ,here 3 ,anted to +e

saved more than an/thing else in the ,orld? 3t ,as at

that point that 3 felt -eace flood o&er $+ bod+? 3

as=ed :od if that ,as it? The peaceful feeling seemed

to intensif/? 3 =ne, 3 ,as saved and +egan to reoice?

This personal e;perience ,ith :od is ,hat ,ill ta=e

me to eaven?Q

southside+c?com

2ote9 .f the !rotestant testimonies here this is the

@8hat ma=es /ou thin= that miracles Konl/ happen in the

Catholic ChurchO A ver/ good friend of mine7 ,hom 3 trust7told me of an occasion ,hich +rought him the Christ? e ,as

at a meeting at 2otre Dame niv? ,hich ,as +eing given +/ a

!rotestant Minister?J As a group left the meeting a dog ,as

hit +/ a passing car and it almost tore off its leg? The group

that had ust left gathered around the dog and +egan to pra/?

The clouds parted enough for a ra/ of light to shine do,n on

the group and the group ,itnessed the dog +eing healed? The

dog then ran off and the group ,as left in a,e of ,hat the/

had seen? M/ friend then gave his life over to :od and has

+een a changed person ever since? The .rthodo; Church has

also reportedN man/ miracles and sightingsN of the Virgin

Mar/? Countless healings have +een reported and ,itnessed +/

@As 3 slept that night7 the ol/ Spirit ,o=e me

up and the ,ords @rivers of living ,ater ,erei$-ressed upon me? 3 felt -ro$-ted to spea=

in tongues7 ,hich 3 had previousl/ pra/ed for

+ut did not =no, if 3 had ever received the gift

As 3 started to spea=7 the tongues flo,ed out o

me li=e rivers? M/ hus+and ,o=e up and as=ed

me ,hat 3 ,as doing? 8hen 3 told him a+out it

3 ,as so full of o/ 3 could not stop laughingR

Than= /ou7 !astor !rince7 for /our messages?

The/ have completel/ changed m/ life? 3 ,as

+aptiBed in the ol/ Spirit in m/ sleepR !raise

the name of )esusR

8i,ure 4 = !+ AuburnPilot 9O2n 2or"; Public do$ainF &ia *i"i$edia Co$$ons lin"

http://southsidembc.com/wp/?page_id=477https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:First_Baptist_Church_Opelika_Alabama_(2).jpghttps://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:First_Baptist_Church_Opelika_Alabama_(2).jpghttp://southsidembc.com/wp/?page_id=477http://www.josephprince.org/daily-grace/praise-reports/single/received-the-fathers-love-and-gift-of-tongues/https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:First_Baptist_Church_Opelika_Alabama_(2).jpg


16/103

@M/ soul /earns to live the ,a/ Allahs,t ,ants me to live7 and m/ entire +eing /earns to please im and ,orshipim? 3slam has taught me the meaning

true love and light and +eaut/ andhappiness and perfection? Alhamdulilla3 feel li=e e has taught me ho, to fl/R 2o, ho, could that possi+l/ +eK,rongO 3slam is perfect and 3slam istrue7 and no one can ever convince meother,ise? Su+hanAllah?

heart-full-of-islam?tum+lr?com

8i,ure 5 = !+ Ai$an titi 9O2n 2or"; CC !D0SA 37( 9tt-:creati&eco$$ons7or,licensesb+0sa37(; or


17/103

8ould Satan +e the author of the peace and o/ these people feelO 8ould it +e fair

of :od to allo, for such deception in his plan ,hen eternit/ is at sta=eO

3t could +e said that such testimonies are more common in Mormonism? Could that

+e due to Mormonisms huge emphasis on o+taining such a ,itnessO

.f the man/ testimonies ,e hear7 ho, man/ are sa/ing the/ have a testimon/

+ecause the/ feel the/ have to7 hoping to feel something after sa/ing itO

8hen it seems that ever/one around us =no,s that the church is true7 and ,hen it

seems that salvation itself depends on it7 do ,e desperatel/ get in the mindset

,here ,e ,ill tr/ and use an/ e;perience to +elieve the church is trueO 3ll give an

e;ample of someone using an/ possi+le result to reach the same conclusion? 3n this

tal= 7 Elder olland and his son reach a for= in the road? The/ pra/ to =no, ,hich

,a/ to go and +oth feel strongl/ to go right? The/ go right and its a dead end?

Even though the/ ,ent the ,rong ,a/7 Elder olland decides that its still the

ol/ :host that the/ felt7 for no, the/ can go do,n the left path ,ith full

confidence that it is the correct ,a/?

.ne more testimon/? Listen to this LDS mem+er on thisamericanlife?org lin=

and te;t sho,n +elo,? The section runs from 59'$ until 695" in the recording?

@Consider recording the testimon/ of )oseph Smith in /our o,n voice7 listening to itregularl/7 and sharing it ,ith friends? Listening to the !rophets testimon/ in /our o,nvoice ,ill help +ring the ,itness /ou see=?

HElder 2eil L? Andersen7 '&"17 referring to )osephs testimon/ in the !earl of :reat !rice

lds?org - )oseph Smith

@3t is not unusual to have a missionar/ sa/7 Ko, can 3 +ear testimon/ until 3 get oneO o,can 3 testif/ that :od lives7 that )esus is the Christ7 and that the gospel is trueO 3f 3 do nothave such a testimon/7 ,ould that not +e dishonestO .h7 if 3 could teach /ou this one principle? A testimon/ is to +e found in the +earing of itR Some,here in /our >uest forspiritual =no,ledge7 there is that Kleap of faith7 as the philosophers call it?

HElder *o/d (? !ac=er7 ,ho goes on to sa/ that the Spirit ,itnesses to /ou after /ou testif/

@Ua =no,7 3ve +een searching for a ,itness of this ,or= and of this church and ust tonight3 got m/ ,itness7 and its +urning ,ithin m/ soul of ho, important this ,or= is and ho,true it is? 3 =no, it is7 and its hard to +elieve that ust a /ear ago 3 ,as in high school? 3 ,asin pla/s? 3 ,as a t/pical teenager7 and no, 3m in a plural marriage and struggling? 3m notgoing to lie to /ou? *ut 3 =no, ,ithout a shado, of a dou+t that this is the Lords ,or=7that 3 have finall/ found it7 and 3 love /ou gu/s and 3m than=ful for /our pra/ers and all

that /ou have to offer me? 3 sa/ this in the name of )esus Christ7 amen?thisamericanlife?org

https://www.lds.org/broadcasts/article/print/ces-devotionals/2014/01/tuning-our-hearts-to-the-voice-of-the-spirit?lang=deu&clang=enghttps://www.lds.org/broadcasts/article/print/ces-devotionals/2014/01/tuning-our-hearts-to-the-voice-of-the-spirit?lang=deu&clang=enghttp://josephsmithpapers.org/https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2014/10/joseph-smith?lang=enghttp://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/21/factionshttp://josephsmithpapers.org/https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2014/10/joseph-smith?lang=enghttps://www.lds.org/ensign/1983/01/the-candle-of-the-lord?lang=enghttps://www.lds.org/broadcasts/article/print/ces-devotionals/2014/01/tuning-our-hearts-to-the-voice-of-the-spirit?lang=deu&clang=enghttps://www.lds.org/broadcasts/article/print/ces-devotionals/2014/01/tuning-our-hearts-to-the-voice-of-the-spirit?lang=deu&clang=enghttp://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/21/factions


18/103

Those ,ho have received such amaBing spiritual e;periences ,ill go to great

lengths to maintain their +eliefs? A Catholic could use these miracles or the actions

of their pope to help =eep the faith? A )ehovahs 8itness could +e inspired to =eep

the faith +/ considering their $?' million Qpu+lishersQ that are active in missionar/

,or= ? These people point to the good fruits of their church ,hile ignoring the +ad

fruits? 8hat ma/ +e the +ad fruits of Mormonism are discussed throughout !art

T,o of this document? 3magine +eing a Seventh Da/ Adventist and having one of

the a+ove spiritual e;periences? Their faith is involved in an incredi+le amount of

charit/? :iven the good fruits and a spiritual ,itness7 ,h/ ,ould the/ leaveO

Though +egun later7 in "$6%7 their

mem+ership has reached "$ million? Mem+ers of man/ faiths often ignore

evidence using mantras such as @:od ,as testing our faith7 @8e cannot =no, the

m/steries of :od7 @Some >uestions must ,ait until the ne;t life7 @the elect ,ill

+e deceived7 @the/ ,ill call good evil and evil good7 @the church isnt perfect7

@the leaders arent perfect7 and @thats a deception of Satan? Most of those

e;amples ,ere derived from the *i+le? ere are e;amples of people discussing

respective @anti literature and dou+ts9

#usli$s:

@Anti-Muslim activists fre>uentl/ ta=e >uotes from Muslim scriptures out of conte;t toreflect +adl/ on 3slam? ,,,?pfa,?org

@3n the car on our ,a/ to the mos>ue7 3 told the +rother that 3 ,as thin=ing a+out changingm/ mind a+out ta=ing Shahada? e told me that the choice ,as mine7 +ut to +e,are of thedou+ts that Satan puts into ones head?J e e;plained to me that onl/ Muslims and non-Muslims ,ho are on their ,a/ to +ecoming Muslim are heavil/ affected +/ Satan? e saidthat non-Muslims are generall/ left alone7 +ecause Satan does not need to distract themfrom :od7 since the/ are alread/ far from im?J Satan put so much dou+t in m/ head inthat one night in order to pull me from the Light? This ,as ho, desperate Satan ,as P he

=ne, that 3 ,as going to ta=e Shahada the ne;t da/ and ,as tr/ing an/thing to preventthis?J Three /ears later9N Since 3 too= Shahada7 m/ life ,ent in a different direction7 a

Q

http://listverse.com/2008/07/14/top-10-astonishing-miracles/http://listverse.com/2008/07/14/top-10-astonishing-miracles/https://web.archive.org/web/20140414022403/http:/news.distractify.com/people/reasons-why-pope-francis-is-the-person-of-the-yearhttps://web.archive.org/web/20140414022403/http:/news.distractify.com/people/reasons-why-pope-francis-is-the-person-of-the-yearhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah's_Witnesses#Demographicshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organizational_structure_of_Jehovah's_Witnesses#Congregationshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organizational_structure_of_Jehovah's_Witnesses#Congregationshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh-day_Adventist_Church#Humanitarian_aid_and_the_environmenthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh-day_Adventist_Church#Humanitarian_aid_and_the_environmenthttp://www.pfaw.org/rww-in-focus/the-right-wing-playbook-anti-muslim-extremismhttp://listverse.com/2008/07/14/top-10-astonishing-miracles/https://web.archive.org/web/20140414022403/http:/news.distractify.com/people/reasons-why-pope-francis-is-the-person-of-the-yearhttps://web.archive.org/web/20140414022403/http:/news.distractify.com/people/reasons-why-pope-francis-is-the-person-of-the-yearhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah's_Witnesses#Demographicshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organizational_structure_of_Jehovah's_Witnesses#Congregationshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organizational_structure_of_Jehovah's_Witnesses#Congregationshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh-day_Adventist_Church#Humanitarian_aid_and_the_environmenthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh-day_Adventist_Church#Humanitarian_aid_and_the_environmenthttp://www.pfaw.org/rww-in-focus/the-right-wing-playbook-anti-muslim-extremismhttp://quranadnsuana.art4muslim.net/content_show.php?show=10


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Catolics - the follo,ing come from forums?catholic?com9

6eo&a?s *itnesses:

3t is one thing to have a uni>ue s/stem of +eliefs? o,ever7 ,hen a religion goes

to great lengths to convert the rest of the ,orld to those +eliefs7 it ma=es sense that

resistance ,ould arise? 3t should +e no surprise ,hen the religion then tries to

attri+ute that resistance to the devil? 3t should also +e no surprise ,hen that

religion tries to prevent its mem+ers from researching ,hat those opposed have to

@3 get so sad ,hen 3 read anti-Catholic missives on the 3nternet? The/re usuall/ poorl/informed7 and pre/ on people ,ho are trou+led?

@As a Catholic7 ,h/ ,ould /ou let /ourself +e influenced +/ anti-Catholic sites? Stopengaging these a,ful videos and turn to )esus?

@:et a,a/ from these poisonous anti-Catholic-Christians? Uou need onl/ scratch thesurface of these people to find serious issues ,ith their interpretations of the faith?

@8hen /ou are in a spiritual dilemma7 do not ma=e it ,orse +/ ,atching anti-CatholicvideosJ Uou ust dont do that?

@3n man/ cases7 the evidence ,hich supports the lies as +eing truthful has +een fa=ed or

mis-re resented? o,ever these lies all a ear from some,here P the must have +een

@The Devil emplo/s innuendos7 false accusations7 and outright lies in challenging)ehovahs sovereignt/7 and he uses these same tactics to malign :ods lo/al servants??? Theintegrit/ of true ,orshipers under the scourge of satanic hatred is a living testimon/ to therightfulness7 deservedness7 and righteousness of )ehovahs sovereignt/? ,ol?,?org

@The 8atchto,er Societ/ is their ideological opponent7 to +e defeated at all costs? The/com+ through old 8atchto,ers7 going +ac= as far as "%& /ears? The/ ta=e ,hatever suitstheir purpose and ignore the rest? The/ rip >uotes out of their conte;t7 attempting to ma=eit loo= as though the/ sa/ much more than the/ actuall/ meant? 8h/ do the/ do itO The/do it +ecause it is their o+ to do itR 3n short7 the/ are far from +eing an o+ective source ofinformation? ran=l/7 fe, )ehovahs 8itnesses are li=el/ to +e ta=en in +/ such chicaner/?3t is eas/ to detect an agenda +ehind this t/pe of mudslinging? )ust a+out an/one ,ho,anted to +elieve it has alread/ done so? And as for the rest of us7 ,hat hasnt =illed us

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=932252http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2004603?q=%22hated+without+cause%22&p=parhttp://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=932252http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2004603?q=%22hated+without+cause%22&p=parhttp://jehovah.to/xlation/fp.html


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sa/? 3n this short UouTu+e video7 a )ehovahs 8itness leader ,arns mem+ers a+out

the dangers of reading apostate material on the internet?

Translation

The follo,ing is from one of the irst !residenc/-approved gospel topics essa/s p? 1? 3n this essa/7 the church esta+lishes as fact that )oseph used a seer stone to

translate the *oo= of Mormon? A picture of the stone is found on lds?org?

)oseph Smith found this stone in the ground @/ears +efore he retrieved the gold

plates and used it to tr/ and find +uried treasure? e then used that stone7 instead

of the rim and Thummim7 to translate the *oo= of Mormon? The essa/ e;plains

that ,ords ,ould appear on the stone? Elder 2elson also discusses that process?

@The other translationN instrument7 aside from the rim and Thummim7N ,hich )osephSmith discovered in the ground /ears +efore he retrieved the gold plates7 ,as a small ovalstone7 or @seer stone? As a /oung man during the "$'&s7 )oseph Smith7 li=e others in hisda/7 used a seer stone to loo= for lost o+ects and +uried treasure? As )oseph gre, tounderstand his prophetic calling7 he learned that he could use this stone for the higher purpose of translating scripture?

-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5p0i5bGhNMhttps://www.lds.org/topics/book-of-mormon-translation?lang=enghttps://www.lds.org/ensign/2015/10/joseph-the-seer?lang=enghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5p0i5bGhNMhttps://www.lds.org/topics/book-of-mormon-translation?lang=enghttps://www.lds.org/topics/book-of-mormon-translation?lang=enghttps://www.lds.org/ensign/2015/10/joseph-the-seer?lang=eng


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This raises a fe, >uestions? Did )oseph see ,ords on the stone ,hen he used it to

loo= for +uried treasure or ,as it ust a propO 3f he ,as using it as a prop7 ,h/

,ould he use this stone instead of the rim and Thummim to translate the *oo= of

MormonO 3f scripture can +e revealed via ,ords appearing on a stone7 ,h/ the

need for golden platesO As e;plained in the intro to DC 47 )oseph translated ascroll ,hich ,as on the other side of the ,orld?

Some apologists theoriBe that )oseph translated the plates into English himself7 as

that ,ould help e;plain errors in the te;t? This is =no,n as the @loose translation

theor/? )osephs method of seeing ,ords appear on a stone confirms that the

*oo= of Mormon ,as supposed to +e a ,ord-for-,ord revelation7 as opposed to

)oseph coming up ,ith his o,n ,ording? 0o/al S=ousen7 @the foremost e;pert on

the histor/ of the te;t of the *oo= of Mormon and *U linguistics professor 7

further validates that the *oo= of Mormon ,as a ,ord-for-,ord revelation9

@Another scri+e7 Martin arris sat across the ta+le from )oseph Smith and ,rote do,n the,ords )oseph dictated? arris later related that as )oseph used the seer stone to translate7sentences appeared? )oseph read those sentences aloud7 and after penning the ,ords7 arris,ould sa/7 K8ritten?

lds?org - *oo= of Mormon Translation

@)oseph Smith ,ould put the seer stone into a hat7 and put his face in the hat7 dra,ing itclosel/ around his face to e;clude the lightG and in the dar=ness the spiritual light ,ouldshine? A piece of something resem+ling parchment ,ould appear7 and on that appeared the,riting? .ne character at a time ,ould appear7 and under it ,as the interpretation inEnglish? *rother )oseph ,ould read off the English to .liver Co,der/7 ,ho ,as his principal scri+e7 and ,hen it ,as ,ritten do,n and repeated to *rother )oseph to see if it,as correct7 then it ,ould disappear7 and another character ,ith the interpretation ,ouldappear? Thus the *oo= of Mormon ,as translated +/ the gift and po,er of :od7 and not +/an/ po,er of man?

HElder 0ussel M? 2elson >uotes David 8hitmer7 "##'

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/7?lang=enghttp://www.deseretnews.com/article/865572457/Top-Book-of-Mormon-expert-Royal-Skousen-to-lecture.html?pg=allhttp://linguistics.byu.edu/directory/rjs4/https://www.lds.org/ensign/1999/05/the-witness-martin-harris?lang=enghttps://www.lds.org/ensign/1999/05/the-witness-martin-harris?lang=enghttps://www.lds.org/topics/book-of-mormon-translation?lang=enghttps://www.lds.org/ensign/1999/05/the-witness-martin-harris?lang=enghttps://www.lds.org/topics/book-of-mormon-translation?lang=enghttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/7?lang=enghttp://www.deseretnews.com/article/865572457/Top-Book-of-Mormon-expert-Royal-Skousen-to-lecture.html?pg=allhttp://linguistics.byu.edu/directory/rjs4/


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.n a related note7 lds?org confirms that Qthe villagers of !alm/ra and Manchester7

2e, Uor=7 ,here the Smiths lived7 sought out )oseph to find lost o+ects using a

seer stoneNJQ Again7 the essa/ sa/s he loo=ed for @lost o+ects and +uried

treasure? 3f this ,as the case7 ,h/ did )oseph give a different stor/ a+out his

@mone/-digging in "$%$O See )S- "956 in the !earl of :reat !rice?

LDS art,or= portra/s a different version of the translation such as in !reach M/

:ospel? 3ll contrast it +elo, ,ith a picture that matches the gospel topics essa/?

Te 13( Edition

A30 admits that there have +eenthousands of minor changes to the

original *oo= of Mormon? Most

involved punctuation? .ne maor change ,as in " 2ephi "'9"$?

@)oseph Smith ,as literall/ reading off an alread/ composed English-language te;t7

meaning the ,ords on the stoneN? The evidence in the manuscripts and in the language of

the te;t itself supports the h/pothesis that the *oo= of Mormon ,as a precisel/ determined

te;t? 3 do not consider this conclusion apologetic7 +ut instead as one demanded +/ the

evidence?

The opposing vie,point7 that )oseph Smith got ideas and he translated them into his o,n

English7 cannot +e supported +/ the manuscript and te;tual evidenceJ )oseph Smith is not

the author of the *oo= of Mormon7 nor is he actuall/ the translator? 3nstead7 he ,as the

8i,ure . = !+ anon+$ous relati&e ofUser:6on 8oVe


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)oseph changed @)esus Christ to @the Messiah on page %& of the "$%4 edition?

.ur current edition still sa/s @the Messiah? 8h/ did )oseph change thisO 0ead

)aco+s revelation7 ,hich he received at least %' /ears after " 2ephi "'9"$?

An angel reveals Christs name to )aco+? That ,ould have meant that 2ephi7 for at

least %' /ears7 never told )aco+ the name )esus Christ? 8hat a+out the follo,ing

verse7 and the fact that )aco+ ,as ,riting in 2ephis small plates7 ,hich contained

the name )esus Christ in " 2ephi "'9"$O A30 doesnt mention this dilemma?

A30s other arguments dont fit ,ith the seer stone revelation process? .ther

"$%& edition errors include maor grammar mista=es in almost ever/ chapter? o,

do the follo,ing errors fit ,ith )oseph receiving a ,ord-for-,ord te;t p? "#)O

2on-e;istent ,ords and incomplete sentences Alma 569"& P @numerorit/

Alma 5594 P @Moroni caused that Laman and a small num+er of men ,hich ,as

appointed to go ,ith him?

S,itching @,as ,ith @,ere and @done ,ith @did Alma #9%' P @the/ ,as angr/

,ith me7 % 2ephi '69"" P @3 ,ere a+out to ,rite them all7 Mosiah '#91" P @and

this the/ done throughout all the land?? Sometimes the s,itch ,or=ed? 3n these

cases7 among man/ others7 the s,itch does not ,or=?

.ur current edition still mi;es the plural @/e ,ith the singular @thou Mosiah

19'' P @/e put up no petition7 nor repent of the thing ,hich thou hast done??

@8herefore7 as 3 said unto /ou7 it must needs +e e;pedient that ChristFfor in the last night theangel spa=e unto me that this should +e his nameFshould come among the )e,s7 J

' 2ephi "&9%

@And a great and a terri+le gulf divideth themG /ea7 even the ,ord of the ustice of the Eternal:od7 and )esus Christ7 ,hich is the Lam+ of :od7 of ,hom the ol/ :host +eareth record7from the +eginning of the ,orld until this time7 and from this time henceforth and forever?

osephsmithpapers?org - *oo= of Mormon7 "$%&

@And 37 2ephi7 have ,ritten these things unto m/ people7 that perhaps 3 might persuade themthat the/ ,ould remem+er the Lord their 0edeemer?

" 2ephi "#9"$

http://josephsmithpapers.org/paperSummary/book-of-mormon-1837#!/paperSummary/book-of-mormon-1837&p=34https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/1-ne/12.18?lang=eng#17http://www.fairmormon.org/perspectives/publications/the-book-of-mormon-vs-the-critics-nit-picking-for-fun-and-profithttp://josephsmithpapers.org/paperSummary/book-of-mormon-1830?p=388&highlight=numerorityhttp://josephsmithpapers.org/paperSummary/book-of-mormon-1830?p=385&highlight=%22which%20was%20appointed%20to%20go%20with%22http://josephsmithpapers.org/paperSummary/book-of-mormon-1830?p=254&highlight=%22they%20was%20angry%20with%20me%22http://josephsmithpapers.org/paperSummary/book-of-mormon-1830?p=512&highlight=%22i%20were%20about%20to%20write%20them%20all%22http://josephsmithpapers.org/paperSummary/book-of-mormon-1830?p=226&highlight=%22and%20this%20they%20done%20throughout%22https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/mosiah/4.22?lang=eng#21https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/mosiah/4.22?lang=eng#21https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/10.3?lang=eng#2https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/10.3?lang=eng#2http://josephsmithpapers.org/paperSummary/book-of-mormon-1830?p=34&highlight=Jesus%20Christhttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/1-ne/19.18?lang=eng#17https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/1-ne/19.18?lang=eng#17https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/10.3?lang=eng#2http://josephsmithpapers.org/paperSummary/book-of-mormon-1830?p=34&highlight=Jesus%20Christhttp://josephsmithpapers.org/paperSummary/book-of-mormon-1837#!/paperSummary/book-of-mormon-1837&p=34https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/1-ne/12.18?lang=eng#17https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/1-ne/19.18?lang=eng#17http://www.fairmormon.org/perspectives/publications/the-book-of-mormon-vs-the-critics-nit-picking-for-fun-and-profithttp://josephsmithpapers.org/paperSummary/book-of-mormon-1830?p=388&highlight=numerorityhttp://josephsmithpapers.org/paperSummary/book-of-mormon-1830?p=385&highlight=%22which%20was%20appointed%20to%20go%20with%22http://josephsmithpapers.org/paperSummary/book-of-mormon-1830?p=254&highlight=%22they%20was%20angry%20with%20me%22http://josephsmithpapers.org/paperSummary/book-of-mormon-1830?p=512&highlight=%22i%20were%20about%20to%20write%20them%20all%22http://josephsmithpapers.org/paperSummary/book-of-mormon-1830?p=226&highlight=%22and%20this%20they%20done%20throughout%22https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/mosiah/4.22?lang=eng#21https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/mosiah/4.22?lang=eng#21


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)in, 6a$es !ible

The follo,ing cases outline some inconsistencies +et,een material in the *oo= of

Mormon and the *i+le? Even if )oseph ,as not given a ,ord-for-,ord revelation

of the *oo= of Mormon te;t p? "$7 these inconsistencies are still pro+lematic?

uoting Moses? e doesnt

give Moses >uote7 +ut instead gives the version in Acts? *oth Acts and 2ephi omit

vs? "$ ,hich is important and paraphrase vs? "5 and "# the same ,a/? 8h/ does

2ephi mirror Acts7 sa/ing its Moses7 ,hen Acts ,asnt ,ritten /etO

#oses 9%euterono$+; Acts

@"5 The Lord th/ :od ,ill raise up unto thee a

!rophet from the midst of thee7 of th/ +rethren7

li=e unto meG unto i$ +e sall ear"enG

"6 According to all that thou desiredst of the Lord

th/ :od in ore+ in the da/ of the assem+l/7

sa/ing7 Let me not hear again the voice of the

Lord m/ :od7 neither let me see this great fire

an/ more7 that 3 die not?

"4 And the Lord said unto me7 The/ have ,ell

spo=en that ,hich the/ have spo=en?

"$ 3 ,ill raise them up a !rophet from among

their +rethren7 li=e unto thee7 and ,ill put m/

,ords in his mouthG and he shall spea= unto them

all that 3 shall command him?

"# And it shall come to pass7 that 2osoe&er 2ill

not ear"en unto $+ 2ords 2ic e sall

s-ea" in $+ na$e I 2ill re[uire it of i$7

@'' or Moses trul/ said unto the fathers7 A prophet

shall the Lord /our :od raise up unto /ou of /our

+rethren7 li=e unto meG i$ sall +e ear in all

tin,s ,hatsoever he shall sa/ unto /ou?

'% And it shall come to pass7 that e&er+ soul 2ic

2ill not ear tat -ro-et sall be destro+ed

fro$ a$on, te -eo-le7

!oo" of #or$on

@'& And the Lord ,ill surel/ prepare a ,a/ for his

people7 unto the fulfilling of the ,ords of Moses7

,hich he spa=e7 sa/ing9 A prophet shall the Lord/our :od raise up unto /ou7 li=e unto meG i$ sall

+e ear in all tin,s ,hatsoever he shall sa/ unto

/ou? And it shall come to pass that all tose 2o

2ill not ear tat -ro-et sall be cut off fro$

a$on, te -eo-le7 H2ephis ,ords see vs? ' and

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/acts/3.22-23?lang=eng#21https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/deut/18.15%2C19?lang=eng#14http://rsc.byu.edu/archived/joseph-smith-translation-restoration-plain-and-precious-things/4-insights-exodus-leviticushttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_manuscript#Extant_Tanakh_manuscriptshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_manuscript#Extant_Tanakh_manuscriptshttp://www.ecmarsh.com/lxx/Deuteronomy/index.htmhttp://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0518.htmhttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/1-ne/22.20?lang=eng#19https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/1-ne/22.20?lang=eng#19https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/acts/3.22-23?lang=eng#21https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/deut/18.15%2C19?lang=eng#14http://rsc.byu.edu/archived/joseph-smith-translation-restoration-plain-and-precious-things/4-insights-exodus-leviticushttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_manuscript#Extant_Tanakh_manuscriptshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_manuscript#Extant_Tanakh_manuscriptshttp://www.ecmarsh.com/lxx/Deuteronomy/index.htmhttp://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0518.htmhttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/1-ne/22.20?lang=eng#19https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/1-ne/22.20?lang=eng#19


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'' of the chapter7 sa/ing that hes >uoting Moses

The 0ed Sea9

' 2ephi changes 3saiah #9"s @the ,a/ of the sea to @the ,a/ of the 0ed Sea?

As 3saiah specified7 the way of the sea @in :alilee is a

road that passes through :alilee? As confirmed +/

lds?org7 this road passes through Capernaum7 a :alileen

cit/? The 8a/ of the 0ed Sea is different +i+lical road?

A30 sa/s that .liver Co,der/ ma/ have added the,ord @0ed during transcription? 0esponse9 The 0LDS

church has the complete )oseph Smith Translation7 and

lds?org sho,s that it is relia+le last page of this Ensign

article? 3n the )ST7 )oseph changed @the sea in 3saiah #9" itself to @the 0ed sea?

This means that )oseph intended the change in ' 2ephi? This ,ould also mean that

)osephs 3saiah #9" contradicts itself7 as the 8a/ of the 0ed Sea is not in :alilee?

A30 >uotes an email from D? Charles !/le7 ,ho is stud/ing to +e a theologian?

!/le claims that the (ings igh,a/7 ,hich passes near not through :alilee7 is part of the 8a/ of the 0ed Sea7 ma=ing the error less +latant? Ever/ other source

contradicts !/le7 sho,ing that the 8a/ of the 0ed Sea is far to the south7 and is an

offshoot or small part of the (ings igh,a/ scroll do,n one page here for a

map? Matthe, 19"'-"5 confirms the road in 3saiah #9" to +e @the ,a/ of the sea?

The Targum a +oo= =no,n a+out in )osephs time ,as still +eing passed do,n

orall/ for hundreds of /ears after the composition of the Dead Sea Scrolls7

Septuagint7 and Masoretic Te;t 3saiah $9'% in the Masoretic lin=? Even though

these oldest scrolls all contain @the sea7 at some point the Targum ,as altered to@the 0ed sea? .ral traditions are prone to change7 and note ho, the rest of the

Targum verse has also +een changed? Even if the Targum ,as correct7 )oseph

,ould have had to change the rest of the verse for it to ma=e an/ sense?

' 2ephi "#9" P @2evertheless7 the dimness shall not +e such as ,as in her ve;ation7 ,hen atfirst he lightl/ afflicted the land of We+ulun7 and the land of 2aphtali7 and after,ards did moregrievousl/ afflict +/ the ,a/ of the 0ed Sea +e/ond )ordan in


26/103

Cop/ing !aul9

3t is understanda+le that :od ,ould ,ant different people on different continents

to have the same message? 3n the follo,ing e;amples7 the message is remar=a+l/

similar? This sho,s that even aside from Christs sermons and the 3saiah chapters7

there are man/ cases ,here the good material in the *oo= of Mormon could easil/have +een +orro,ed from another source? 8as )oseph filling up space7 or did

Moroni7 ,ho sa, our da/7 decide to give us scripture ,hich ,e alread/ hadO 8h/

did 2ephi engrave "5 chapters of 3saiahO 8h/ not ust tell us to read 3saiahO

E;amples9 Ether "'96-'' vs e+re,s ""7 Moroni 4915 vs " Corinthians "%91-47

Moroni "&9$-"$ vs " Corinthians "'91-""

()V vs )ST vs *oM9Again7 the full te;t of the )ST held +/ the 0LDS church has +een verified as

correct?8e dont have the )ST version of the follo,ing passage7 among others7 due

to @lac= of space in our inde;? ere is the original (ing )ames verse +efore

)oseph changed it9

3n the )oseph Smith Translation, )oseph didnt ust clarif/ Christs message? e

changed the meaning to +e the follo,ing in the )ST this content is in verse 1%9

3n ever/ other translation7 Christ sa/s that if /oure as=ed to go a mile7 go t,o

t,ain? 3n the )ST7 Christ is sa/ing to ,al= onl/ as far as /ou are as=ed? The

passage in the *oo= of Mormon remains unchanged? 8hich is correct7 the *oo= of

Mormon or the )oseph Smith TranslationO

There are other passages in the *oo= of Mormon ,hich follo, the same pattern? 3f

:od simpl/ ,ants the *oo= of Mormon to match the *i+le7 then ,h/ doesnt the

Matthe, 591" P @And ,hosoever shall compel thee to go a mile7 go ,ith him t,ain?

@And ,hosoever shall compel thee to go a mile7 go ,ith him a mileG and ,hosoever shallcom el thee to o ,ith him t,ain thou shalt o ,ith him t,ain?

% 2ephi "'91" P @And ,hosoever shall compel thee to go a mile7 go ,ith him t,ain?

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/morm/8.34?lang=eng#33https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/ether/12.6-22?lang=eng#5https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/heb/11?lang=enghttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/moro/7.45?lang=eng#44https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/1-cor/13.4-7?lang=eng#3https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/moro/10.8-18?lang=eng#7https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/1-cor/12.4-11?lang=eng#3https://www.lds.org/ensign/1992/06/i-have-a-question?lang=enghttps://www.lds.org/ensign/1992/06/i-have-a-question?lang=enghttp://www.centerplace.org/hs/iv/iv-mat.htmhttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/matt/5.41?lang=eng#40https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/12.41?lang=eng#11https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/12.41?lang=eng#11https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/morm/8.34?lang=eng#33https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/ether/12.6-22?lang=eng#5https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/heb/11?lang=enghttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/moro/7.45?lang=eng#44https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/1-cor/13.4-7?lang=eng#3https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/moro/10.8-18?lang=eng#7https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/1-cor/12.4-11?lang=eng#3https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/matt/5.41?lang=eng#40https://www.lds.org/ensign/1992/06/i-have-a-question?lang=enghttps://www.lds.org/ensign/1992/06/i-have-a-question?lang=enghttp://www.centerplace.org/hs/iv/iv-mat.htmhttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/12.41?lang=eng#11


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*oo= of Mormon match the *i+le in man/ other passages7 such as in the 0ed Sea

e;ample on the previous pageO The *oo= of Mormon ,as supposed to clarif/

*i+lical doctrine7 not propagate its errors? .r ma/+e the )ST is in errorO

The Visitation of Christ9

There is a pattern in % 2ephi of one-upping different aspects of Christs ministr/ in

3srael? aving the *oo= of Mormon one-up the *i+le ,ould +e consistent ,ith

)osephs character see also the 'nd picture of )oseph from +/u?edu9

A comparison9

Ne2 Testa$ent !oo" of #or$on

A star in the east A night ,ithout dar=ness

The sun dar=ened for three hours Dar=ness for three da/s

A minor earth>ua=e The destruction of ,hole cities

)esus appearing to 5&& people after his

resurrection ,ith one person touching his

,ounds

)esus appearing to '5&& people ,ith all of

them touching the ,ounds

The loaves and fishes 8ine and +read from nothing

*lessing little children *lessing them ,ith angels encircling them

Strong ,ind and cloven tongues at !entecost Encircled +/ fire and angels at !entecost

)esus +eing transfigured A multitude ,itnessing nine apostles +eing

transfigured

!romised that )ohn ,ould not taste death Three 2ephites receiving that promise

@3 am the onl/ man that has ever +een a+le to =eep a ,hole churchtogether since the da/s of Adam? A large maorit/ of the ,hole havestood +/ me? 2either !aul7 )ohn7 !eter7 nor )esus ever did it? 3 +oastthat no man ever did such a ,or= as 3? The follo,ers of )esus ran a,a/from imG +ut the Latter-da/ Saints never ran a,a/ from me /et?

H)oseph Smith7 "$117 after referencing !auls +oastings and claimingto have suffered more than !aul? )oseph goes on to give some of thecredit to the Saints?

+/u?edu - istor/ of the Church7 Vol? 67 Ch? "#7 p? 1&$-1 8i,ure / = 6ose- S$it 6r7 b+

%an[uart Anton *e,,eland lin"

http://rsc.byu.edu/archived/california-saints-150-year-legacy-golden-state/chapter-1-where-shall-we-gatherhttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/matt/2.2?lang=eng#1https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/1.15?lang=eng#14https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/matt/27.45?lang=eng#44https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/matt/27.45?lang=eng#44https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/10.9?lang=eng#8https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/matt/27.51?lang=eng#50https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/matt/27.51?lang=eng#50https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/8?lang=enghttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/8?lang=enghttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/1-cor/15.6?lang=eng#5https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/1-cor/15.6?lang=eng#5https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/john/20.27?lang=eng#26https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/john/20.27?lang=eng#26https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/17.25?lang=eng#24https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/11.15?lang=eng#14https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/11.15?lang=eng#14https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/luke/9.16?lang=eng#15https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/luke/9.16?lang=eng#15https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/20.6-7?lang=eng#5https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/20.6-7?lang=eng#5https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/mark/10.13?lang=eng#12https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/17.21-24?lang=eng#20https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/acts/2.1-4?lang=enghttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/19.14?lang=eng#13https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/matt/17.2?lang=eng#1https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/28.12-17?lang=eng#11https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/28.12-17?lang=eng#11https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/28.12-17?lang=eng#11https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/john/21.23?lang=eng#22https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/28.4-7?lang=eng#3https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/2-cor/11.16-19?lang=eng#15https://byustudies.byu.edu/content/volume-6-chapter-19https://byustudies.byu.edu/content/volume-6-chapter-19https://www.lds.org/media-library/images/joseph-smith-jr-danquart-weggeland-192288?lang=eng&category=https://www.lds.org/media-library/images/joseph-smith-jr-danquart-weggeland-192288?lang=eng&category=https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/2-cor/11.16-19?lang=eng#15https://byustudies.byu.edu/content/volume-6-chapter-19http://rsc.byu.edu/archived/california-saints-150-year-legacy-golden-state/chapter-1-where-shall-we-gatherhttps://www.lds.org/media-library/images/joseph-smith-jr-danquart-weggeland-192288?lang=eng&category=https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/matt/2.2?lang=eng#1https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/1.15?lang=eng#14https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/matt/27.45?lang=eng#44https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/10.9?lang=eng#8https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/matt/27.51?lang=eng#50https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/8?lang=enghttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/1-cor/15.6?lang=eng#5https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/1-cor/15.6?lang=eng#5https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/john/20.27?lang=eng#26https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/john/20.27?lang=eng#26https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/17.25?lang=eng#24https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/11.15?lang=eng#14https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/11.15?lang=eng#14https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/luke/9.16?lang=eng#15https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/20.6-7?lang=eng#5https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/mark/10.13?lang=eng#12https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/17.21-24?lang=eng#20https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/acts/2.1-4?lang=enghttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/19.14?lang=eng#13https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/matt/17.2?lang=eng#1https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/28.12-17?lang=eng#11https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/28.12-17?lang=eng#11https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/john/21.23?lang=eng#22https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/28.4-7?lang=eng#3


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Te a2 of #oses

8e sometimes hear that the La, of Moses ,as supposed to +e harsh in order to

+etter =eep the 3sraelites in line? The scriptures sho,n +elo, are all part of the

La, of Moses as confirmed +/ +/u?edu? Do ,e see :ods la, given to =eep

people in line7 or does this la, appear to +e created +/ men in order to o,n slaves7

get ,omen7 and discriminateO The )ST clarified some La, of Moses

commandments7 such as Deut? "19'"7 +ut it does not alter an/ of these? At the end

of this section 3 ,ill sho, ho, these la,s pertain to the *oo= of Mormon?

*eating maids is o=7 as long as the/ survive a da/ or t,o if the/ dont7 the penalt/

is death7 +ecause the/ are mone/?

!eople can +e @possessions and @+ondmen for ever9

0egarding ,omen7 ,e have Deut? ''9'%-'4 P 3f a ,oman is successfull/ raped in

a cit/7 it is assumed that she did not cr/ out for help7 and she is to +e stoned to

death? 3f she is raped in a field7 she is spared7 as there ,as no one to hear her cr/for help? Deut ''9"%-'" P 3f a man suspects that his +ride is not a virgin7 the

virgins parents must prove to the elders that the +edsheets on the ,edding night

,ere +lood/? 3f the/ cannot do this7 the +ride is to +e stoned to death? 8e no,

=no, that ,omen often do not +leed ,hen the/ lose their virginit/? Lev? '49"-4 P

:od apparentl/ values ,omen half as much as he values men7 rounded up? A one

E;odus '"9'&-'" P '& And if a man smite his servant7 or his maid7 ,ith a rod7 and he die underhis handG he shall +e surel/ punished?

'" 2ot,ithstanding7 if he continue a da/ or t,o7 he shall not +e punished9 for he is his mone/?

Leviticus '5911-16 P @11 *oth th/ +ondmen7 and th/ +ondmaids7 ,hich thou shalt have7 shall +e of the heathen that are round a+out /ouG of them shall /e +u/ +ondmen and +ondmaids?

15 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do soourn among /ou7 of them shall /e +u/7and of their families that are ,ith /ou7 ,hich the/ +egat in /our land9 and the/ shall +e /our possession?

16 And /e shall ta=e them as an inheritance for /our children after /ou7 to inherit them for a possessionG the/ shall +e /our +ondmen for ever9 +ut over /our +rethren the children of 3srael7/e shall not rule one over another ,ith rigour?

http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Law_of_Moseshttps://rsc.byu.edu/archived/joseph-smith-translation-restoration-plain-and-precious-things/4-insights-exodus-leviticushttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/deut/22.23-27?lang=eng#22https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/deut/22.13-21?lang=eng#12https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/lev/27.1-7?lang=enghttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/ex/21.20-21?lang=eng#19https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/lev/25.44-46?lang=eng#43http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Law_of_Moseshttps://rsc.byu.edu/archived/joseph-smith-translation-restoration-plain-and-precious-things/4-insights-exodus-leviticushttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/ex/21.20-21?lang=eng#19https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/lev/25.44-46?lang=eng#43https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/deut/22.23-27?lang=eng#22https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/deut/22.13-21?lang=eng#12https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/lev/27.1-7?lang=eng


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month-old male is valued at 5 she=els7 ,hile a female at that age is valued at %?

Lev? "'9"-5 P After giving +irth to a male7 a ,oman is unclean for seven da/s and

cannot enter the sanctuar/ for thirt/-three da/s? After giving +irth to a female7 a

,oman is unclean for t,o ,ee=s and cannot enter the sanctuar/ for si;t/-si; da/s?

A severe penalt/ for gra++ing an attac=ers privates to help defend /our hus+and9

Discrimination against eunuchs7 +astards7 and the descendants of +astards if this

,as to prevent the creation of eunuchs7 ,h/ not punish those ,ho created themO9

Men ta=ing ,ives from +eautiful captive ,omen after a +attle9

The *oo= of Mormon sa/s that all things given +/ :od are to t/pif/ of Christ7 that

Christ gave the la,7 and that that ever/ ,hit of the la, points to the Atonement9

Deuteronom/ '59""-"' P @"" 8hen men strive together one ,ith another7 and the ,ife of theone dra,eth near for to deliver her hus+and out of the hand of him that smiteth him7 and puttethforth her hand7 and ta=eth him +/ the secrets9

"' Then thou shalt cut off her hand7 thine e/e shall not pit/ her ”.

Deuteronom/ '%9"-' P @" e that is ,ounded in the stones7 or hath his priv/ mem+er cut off7shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord?

' A +astard shall not enter into the congregation of the LordG even to his tenth generation shallhe not enter into the con re ation of the Lord?

Deuteronom/ '"9"&-"% P @"& 8hen thou goest forth to ,ar against thine enemies7 andthe Lord th/ :od hath delivered them into thine hands7 and thou hast ta=en them captive7

"" And seest among the captives a +eautiful ,oman7 and hast a desire unto her7 that thou,ouldest have her to th/ ,ifeG

"' Then thou shalt +ring her home to thine houseG and she shall shave her head7 and pare hernailsG

"% And she shall put the raiment of her captivit/ from off her7 and shall remain in thine house7and +e,ail her father and her mother a full month9 and after that thou shalt go in unto her7 and +e her hus+and and she shall +e th ,ife?

' 2ephi ""91 P @J for this end hath the la, of Moses +een givenG and all things ,hich have +een given of :od from the +eginning of the ,orld7 unto man7 are the t/pif/ing of him?

Alma %19"1 P @And +ehold7 this is the ,hole meaning of the la,7 ever/ ,hit pointing to thatgreat and last sacrificeG and that great and last sacrifice ,ill +e the Son of :od7 J

% 2ephi "591-5 P @1 *ehold7 3 sa/ unto /ou that the la, is fulfilled that ,as given unto Moses?

5 *ehold 3 am he that ave the la, J

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/lev/12.1-5?lang=enghttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/deut/25.11-12?lang=eng#10https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/deut/23.1-2?lang=enghttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/deut/21.10-13?lang=eng#9https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/11.4?lang=eng#3https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/11.4?lang=eng#3https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/34.14?lang=eng#13https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/34.14?lang=eng#13https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/15.4-5?lang=eng#3https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/15.4-5?lang=eng#3https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/lev/12.1-5?lang=enghttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/deut/25.11-12?lang=eng#10https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/deut/23.1-2?lang=enghttps://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/deut/21.10-13?lang=eng#9https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/11.4?lang=eng#3https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/34.14?lang=eng#13https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/15.4-5?lang=eng#3


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Did :od reall/ command all of the a+ove to point to the AtonementO 8hile ,ere

tal=ing a+out the .ld Testament7 ,ould :od reall/ command genocide including

the sla/ing of infants7 little +o/s and girls7 the elderl/7 etc?7 as in the first three

lin=s hereO See " Samuel "59%7 )oshua 69'"7 )oshua "&91&-1"7 2um+ers %"9"4-"$

and " Samuel '49$-#? 8hich is ,orseO 3dolatr/ or gro,n men =illing little girlsO

Trinitarian %octrine

The "$%& *oo= of Mormon had Trinitarian language common to !rotestantism9

.ur edition of the *oo= of Mormon has @the Son of added to each of those

scriptures " 2ephi ""9"$7 '"7 " 2ephi "%91&)? The original reading is especiall/

pro+lematic ,hen ta=en ,ith )osephs initial recording of the irst Vision? 3n this

@"$%' account7 unli=e his "$%$ account7 he onl/ sees @the Lord?

A30 misunderstands Trinitarian teachings7 giving e;amples from the earl/ LDS

church that the/ +elieve contradict it? )esus at :ods right hand in Acts7 :

The Mormon Challenge 5-22-2016.docx

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