03/01/2016 The Long List: DO WE NEED A MOVEMENT

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I am at a loss for words how some people can follow such out of context topics like; Unlearning orthodox safetytopics, living in grey, being loose, thinking that embracing risk is great in the workplace, that being childlike is whatis needed in the workplace, That all people who take safety serious are spudheads, that hindsight investigationhas no value, that blame for incidents should not be attributed to those who cause incidents...the list grows.

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I have seen safety web sites put down and criticise so many aspects of safety and further confuse the safety sector by adding more over complication and trying to add more role obligations onto safety workers. It is only fair peoplehave the chance to see the realist side of things.

This is that site.

I do not live in any dream world, I have nothing to sell, nor am I promoting any business tacts. What I do want is some sense put back in safety as too much has been taken out....in my opinion

The Art of Persuasion and humble enquiry (being sold in safety) are every conpersons genuineness. Humble enquiry and all other means to get people to buy things or believe in things is just plain manipulation. Anyone whodisagrees is not ethical or just naive; as ethical people do not practice persuasion to sell ideas, and smart people do not endorse it, they practice moral advice that allows those to persuade themselves to a new way. Free chapters ofbooks, free samples of systems, and all other tempters are all those things in which those who practice persuasion use to buy you, suck you in...wake up. Safety needs to get back to the basics first, as this first step has not beencompleted!

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DO WE NEED A MOVEMENT

It’s great to surround yourself with a group of "groupthinkers" so as to seek that confirmation "bias" to support thatideology…opps sorry, the MOVEMENT (HERE for original post).

Rob long Dave Collins • 4 months ago I think this conference, the masters program and the growing number of people joining the movement of thinkingand learning away from dumb down safety is critical. Thank god for your blog.

It sure is a place to be comfortable for those who cannot stand on their own and whom need others to support them (letsjoin the dots), but I suppose this is what they call humanisation (process of what we need to do). We are social animals?yes…then social animals stick together, but for what core reason…for protection against that thing called fear. Those outthere who do not know what I am talking about, you poor naïve people and most likely why you need to follow this sort ofrubbish that says we can understand people.

I am sure it has been said by these people that people cannot be controlled, yet in typical double speak they seem tocome back and take promote topics that are in fact about control...this would be what they call "dumbing us down" (so

DO WE NEED A REVOLUTION / MOVEMENT to be thoughtful?

dave collins Rob long • 4 months ago yeah mate those participnats, graduates, authors and contributers will be the leaders of thisrevolution :)

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03/01/2016 The Long List: DO WE NEED A MOVEMENT

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many posts and replies about systems and paperwork making us dumb without facing the fact that its all driven by lawsand rules that must be followed)...yes those very topics that these people seem to think we can be loose on, violate andrid via the process of 'unlearning'. Hey I'm with them, truly. I wish nothing less than ultimate freedom and choice to do asI wish, but there is a factor we cannot ignore...we are all "I" and "i's" have egos and have varied motivations. My worldwould be perfect if "I" was the only one here, I am sure your would would be be to if you where the only one on earth.But your not...so rules make order.

These people don't believe in stupidity, but what the hell do you call these acts HERE (maybe this is what they mean byembracing risk!..yes I am sure it does) – I know, these experts don’t like using 'stupid' to describe things we do, but whatwould they call these things? and don't say fallibility!!!

See, again we see how they tell us something but give us no tangible alternatives. It's like how they attack Zero Harm,and many other phrases used by safety, but what can we use? "we embrace risk for harm" or "we support unconsciousthinking for thoughtless harm" or "we live in grey fro harm" or "I like it loose for harm"...

I am sure there is a self appointed guru overseeing all this utopian dream world fallacy and have been building my ORGCHART, as all cults have one who builds their following, some even using reciprocity to build its numbers (I do for you,then I get more back...ah self love is what I need). All these new disciples using all their new found psychology wordssay how poor safety is yet before finding this new world they say they created great safety cultures!!!go figure...how isthe possible...or may that was also a lie!.

I have asked many question and they cannot be answered by these experts, and in typical style, do what all thosewithout answers do, ignore and discredit. The power of a tittle to one can do wonders, even if they are not moral inreality. There are many examples of academics making a mess of things...come to think of it, all society has been builtby academics and its in a pretty bad shape...so there is my evidence. All those experts making us into robots andconformists...yes, humanization has done a great job of turning most of us into Zombies HERE (maybe we will see thiszombie topic copied onto the Safety Risk Site as they cannot think of anything new, although make out they do). I keep arun sheet of bias and double speak of this site, very interesting to see "magnet" effect. (my term used for those who readsomething and are pulled in as their cognitive force is weaker than that magnet)..

All their new ideas in the end are based on plain old risk management and good ethical and moral dispositions. Thosetopics should really not be needed to be "told" in a general sense onto us as they should be innate in all good people(many people are good without having to be told how to be is my point and this level should be good enough to make aworkplace good in culture). But we do know that good people do bad things don’t we! We do know that pressure willmake any good person act in ways not once educated don’t we! We do know that many in high positions (includinggovernment) use their power/status in negative ways to benefit themselves don’t we!. If we know these things, then weknow that the smart ones in these positions are too smart to care…don’t we? self serving we are!

Is social psychology collectively going to save our sense of community and give purpose to our culture…I don’t think soand I would not be foolish enough to think of it. Don't get me wrong, I am interested why we do things, but regardless ofany amount of study, no psychology expertise will or can predict what I may or may not do in any random event,nor willmake a change as not enough people care (a fact that won't change). We can go around and pretend that little thingsmake a difference...maybe true until the little thing is foreshorten in amount all the bigness.

These fast tracked "new psychologists" are riding on a wave with fad new surf boards that real surfers don’t like andwon’t use and that only those seeking to be cool purchase (and will still fall off). As I keep saying, we as a society ofindividuals (don't be fooled into thinking you don't come first people, its a great trick the super ego plays on you) are notprepared to sink cost into such distant and currently unknown risk. Ah you say…what is he talking about!…think aboutwhy we only hear of a foundation or charity starting after one has been exposed to negative alteration. I.e. my child hasa rare disease, I will now walk across Australia to raise money…this person would have no prior concern for this cause ifthey were not “collected” by the life altering mechanism. We human react, and as most people think unconsciously 95%of the time, that is a lot of action of not thought..(think about that one)

Again we see the same gibberish about the use of Zero Harm…get over it (it not just about numbers). The use of thephrase/question in this post “Is The Safety and Risk Revolution Coming” is just as bad..a revolution to help avoi risk iszero harm thinking. Are they revolting against risk and safety now? Having/causing an uprising? And these people talkabout the sad state of safety, yet they go to all lengths to continually divide it and create silos amongst it...stupid spudheads HERE. If you cannot have Zero Harm, then a MOVEMENT to cure safety does not or will not exist either. This talkof a MOVEMENT is perfectionism in it's own right! that's what movement are.

The author/s says “This is obviously a brave and courageous move for many given the sunk cost and the fear driven byregulators and even principal contractors – but these companies are smart enough to realise that there is no other way

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03/01/2016 The Long List: DO WE NEED A MOVEMENT

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to move forward and mature than to break away from hitherto unsuccessful if not harmful, traditional safety and riskapproach” – I would like to see a major construction company cost factor in this new complex concept (psychology) intotheir culture of profit first “better known as greed” when in fact their profit first “greed” does not even give practical safetynow like using risk management…that if done correctly and with full care and moral conviction does a very good job atreducing incidents (but that is to simple). This is why I cannot believe business and people are buying into this newMOVEMENT if these experts cannot claim to solve the key issues of safety that I have been raising for years (greed,pressures, unmotivated workers, bullied workers etc) then this is why you see them come back to to core topiccommunication (and how is that working out over 5000 years). This is not a new idea. Almost all their topics posted try tostay clear of the word consultation as its too easy and not marketable. The key issues with safety (as in many sectorsincluding education) is pressure such as time restraints. So if we could simply increase time to practice safety, thenmany issues would be solved and we would ave less incidents...so I ask again...how is this new MOVEMENT going toallow practical time for tasks to be done? How it is going to be included into the budget? Are we as a society andindividual really prepared to pay for this? Are we prepared to pay $50 for a kg of sugar to fund a massive filtrationsystem that filters dirty farm water before it goes into the ocean and kills of the Great Barrier Reef? Are we prepared topay $10 for a litre of milk to ensure cows are treated as living animals? What about fuel, $30/L to ensure safety of worksand proper care of the environment...I doubt it very much all you utopian dreamers who want more for less. What aboutan Ipad that is made cheap using slave labor camps overseas! I may tell customers as they enter the store where theyare made and the harm the give and they may choose not to purchase that thing today, but the pressure to have itoverrides the hidden crime...a crime you are happy to ignore with your desire for cheap products and services.

I would also like to see what traditional/orthodox safety these experts keep talking about that they say does not work,give us a list instead of hiding behind a cloud of righteousness. Is it the system that does not work, risk management, orthe people that does not work. Two people making the same cake can have different outcomes! Is it the legal professionthat is the key causality in safety dissonance, something I always preach as everyone is out to sue everyone. Just thisweek, a joy ride at a theme park got stuck at the top of the ride, yeap, people are suing. A few years ago at a footballgame there was a half time game where a spectator slipped over hurting his back, he sued and got millions and nowthere is no half time games in the sport…these list goes on and on and on. They talk about safety in need ofimprovement…it is us that needs it by way of live and let live.

It is funny how these people are slowly coming around and listening to my points of reality as I often see hints of myviews (it must pain them to do so) such as saying that business is greedy. Consumers are just as if not more greedy!. AsI keep saying, but these 'fools' (I give their own lingo back to them) don’t get it, the whole issue of “safety” is far morereaching than saying it is at a company level. If you can convince us (the consumers) to pay more for products andservices and that this extra cost goes towards the human (that being the safety and welfare), then things may change…These people talk of humanizing us…well I say we need to dehumanize us. If you dare think about this philosophicalcomment, you might be just open enough to understand its context.

The author/s says “Mature organisations ‘know’ that ‘meeting’ people rather than on ‘meeting’ legislation is a much moreeffective way to deal with risk” I have been finding these sorts of comments from these people mildly funny…why….itassumes all you stupid folks reading and believing this nonsense that you are before this point…simple and uncaring!.So simple that you need to understand and be *told by these gurus that talking with and being compassionate is a greatattribute to have to be mature. I would have to ask what “risk” is to be controlled by meeting people. How is meetingpeople going to stop them choosing safety? (are they going to say, now I have met that person I will not harm myself).And can we assume we know people by just meeting them?. Most business people on TV come across kind andwarm…do you really think they become successful being kind and warm and by meeting people…Please. Then I wouldlove to see CEOs and managers find the time to meet and greet workers. Even a safety advisor is not granted time toconsult with workers. I am not sure where these experts say they have worked in safety, but in my experience working inaviation, construction, mining, security, farming, not one has allowed for practical time, so good luck convincing peopleto have paid chats and to allow all that time to just listen!

They then go onto talk about how they lamented (they are loving their new words) over the current disdain for the word“safety”.

You see, people like me who are prepared to follow their ethics and morals will not go out and keep making moneydoing things they don’t believe in any longer (this is why I left safety because you cannot practice wast you must do).These people still sell themselves as safety consultants and visit sites to tick off on their impressive LTIFR graphs, theircomprehensive systems, their safety plans, their compliance audits, their manuals, their contractor controls, their lengthyinductions, their checklists, their training matrix, their QA, their PPE, their SOP’s and their SWMS…I would have to ask;Is this a leader quality, is this the sort of thing that makes you a person who deserves to be trying to lead people into anew MOVEMENT a double speak leader!. These people are not practising what they preach. They put down thesystem of fear, yet feed off it! Then to justify their choice they say...well laws and systems are important just after postingtopic how these thing dumb us down!. They call safety people spud heads, yet go out their and tick and flick to make

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money themselves...see what I am saying...see the cognitive dissonance in working. Some of these experts even saythey are not into safety and do not like using the word (as too gutless to make the word right). If all they want to do ispromote psychology and the art of listing, then sell that and see how much work you get. These people are like thosewho wish for environmental care yet happily poor chemicals down the sink, the wish for slavery in India to cease, yetpurchase products from that source. See, just like the rest of us, we put money (greed) and our self interests beforemorals. You won't change us, as every living thing is the same. Mother Natures Law dictates that the weak die out andthat you must protect the "I".

There won’t be any tipping point given by 'free will'' anytime soon. No one goes to work to hurt themselves period, sotrain them well, don’t pressure them, give practical time to do any task, don’t slave workers (long hrs etc), treat people ashow you wish to be treated, and safety will result to its mean level (accidents happen). The only tipping point that mayhappen is when business looses the constraints of litigation (fear of)…can you see that sector loosening up on laws andtheir means to rip people off to feed their fat pockets?

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