The hidden job market

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The Hidden Job Market: Getting From Informational Interview to Job Offer

Sarah Stamboulie, Sr. Career Coach, Ivy Exec


About Sarah Stamboulie• Sarah led Alumni Career Services at

Columbia Business School, overseeing career programming and resources for 36,000 alumni throughout the world.

• Earlier in her career, Sarah served as the head of Human Resources at both Morgan Stanley and Cantor Fitzgerald. She holds an MBA from Columbia Business School.

• Sarah has been featured in publications such as Forbes and AM New York, and has made television appearances on Fox 5 News and CBS Moneywatch


Participant Poll

1. What is your current employment situation?a. Unemployed and fully focused on job search (or should be)b. Working as well as job-huntingc. Working and planning to job-hunt

2. How many informational interviews have you had in the last four months with potential hiring managers*? a. 0 - 2b. 3 - 9c. 10 or more

* Someone who would be your boss if he/she got an opening and hired you.


• Tonight we will cover what you do once you’ve gotten the information interview scheduled.

• For Part I, how to get informational interviews: Ivy Exec members can:

o get an overview of process from earlier webinars

o learn specific techniques and get tools and templates as part of an individual coaching package.

The Hidden Job Market, “Part II”


Two Kinds of Informational Interviews

1. “Informational Interview” that’s really for information (with someone at your level)

2. “Informational Interview” that you hope will lead to a job interview – more of an exploratory meeting (with someone at the level that could hire you if they had an opening)*

*this second type will be our main focus in this webinar


True Informational Interviews

• Have 3-6 purely informational interviews before going for a role that you haven’t had before. o “Working closely with” or “working across from” people

doing your target role is not enough!

• Use similar questions and techniques to those used at an exploratory meeting.

• Places where you don’t want to work (i.e. due to geography) are ideal for true informational meetings


Tips for Telephone Informational Interviews

• Take telephone interviews seriously and research the interviewer the same way you would for an in-person meeting

• Use a landline if possible and eliminate all sources of background noise, including other phones

• Don’t forget to make usual small talk• Get the interviewer talking as much as possible• Say no more than two sentences at a time before

pausing• Don’t rush off the phone – (you very much enjoyed the

conversation, etc.) and ask about next steps• Send detailed follow-up letters


Moving on to Exploratory Meetings

You are ready to meet with hiring managers when:

1. You’ve done the same job as your target job at two or more organizations just like your target organization (and some of the time was in the last two years) OR

2. You’ve had 3-6 informational interviews with people doing the exact role you are targeting at very similar organizations AND

You’ve been told that you “sound like an insider” or something similar.


Path from Exploratory Meeting to Job Offer

1. First meeting -- an exploratory meeting with hiring manager

2. Second meeting -- you are referred to (or ask for):a. An exploratory meeting/job interview with hiring

manager’s boss, peer, or employee (or an internal recruiter) OR

b. A meeting with a hiring manager in another dept. or company, in which case it’s like another first meeting

3. Subsequent meetings (in same group) -- like regular job interviews but more leeway to influence the position


Continuous Research and Questions

• Research and ask questions before, during, and after your meetings and interviews

• If you keep your target appropriately narrow, the research for each organization will overlap and it will get easiero Use the meeting to fill out the blankso Then do more research as part of your follow-up


1: Hiring Manager – Initial Research

Become an expert on the hiring manager:

• Study hiring manager’s LinkedIn profile in detail

• Google interviewer and read more than one page of results

• Think about what he or she is likely to like and not like about you and your background (and ways to present yourself in a better light)


2: Business Model

• What are its products or services?

• What are its short- and long-term goals?

• Who are its customers?• What is the client life

cycle?• How and how much do

they pay?

• Is there another source of income?

• What are the major expenses?

• Who are the major and minor competitors?

• What are the major risks?

Learn everything about the business/funding model:


3: Hiring Manager’s Role

Completely understand your desired boss’s role:

• Who is his/her boss(s) and other internal clients?

• What are his/her job responsibilities?

• What are his/her biggest challenges?

• What milestones would lead to dramatic success for him or her?


4: Rest of Departments’ Roles

Work to so completely understand the department that you could draw an org chart:

• Who else/what other areas does desired boss manage?

• What are each team member’s job responsibilities?

• Does team have the right mix of skills?

• What are the biggest challenges in the group?

• What is the workload like?


5: Your Desired Position/Work

Completely understand work done in your desired role:

• What are the exact day-to-day job responsibilities?

• What are the big cyclical projects?

• What performance milestones would lead to a big bonus or promotion?

• What contact is there with other departments?

• What contact is there with external clients?


6: Continuously Learn About Them

• Before each meeting, write out all the questions you can’t answer and bring them to the meeting

• After each meeting, write out the questions you still have and bring them to the next meeting


Why such a focus on the work?

“People who want to change [jobs] are usually limited by

failure to understand the day-to-day tasks and functions

of the new [job] they want. The more you learn about the

work you want to do prior to applying for a job, the more

attractive you will be to the employer. Don’t wait for on-

the-job training. Don’t wait for a manager to figure out

‘how you would fit in.’ Make the investment yourself, or

don’t pursue the job.”

Nick Corcodilos, Ask the Headhunter


First Half of Initial Meeting With Hiring Manager

Your goals for the first half of the meeting:

1. To fully understand the hiring manager’s job

2. To understand his/her organization

3. To understand his/her unmet needs, if any

4. To determine if you could be a solution to those needs


Second Half of Initial Meeting – Not a Fit

If you are not a great fit for the hiring manager’s needs:

1. Refer him to information, another candidate or a consulting firm

2. Describe the exact category (function, dept, companies, geography) of manager you wish to meet

3. If they know anyone, ask for an introduction, and then email some talking points for him or her to use


Second Half of Initial Meeting – Fit

If you could be a solution to the manager’s unmet needs:

1. Explore those needs further with the hiring manager and in the process amplify them

2. Encourage the hiring manager to talk about his/her boss and other team members and remember their names as you will want to meet with them next

3. Ask for a meeting with boss or other decision maker, either on the spot or as part of the follow-up/thank you process


Subsequent Meetings

• If referred to different group: handle like it’s a first informational interview

• If referred to another member of group (hiring manager’s boss, peer, employee, or an internal recruiter)

o Goals are to further understand and amplify the group’s needs

o If meeting with an internal recruiter, to answer the questions well


General Tips: Avoid These Topics

• How difficult the job search is

• What your perfect career would be

• Why you are “perfect” for the job or “uniquely” qualified

for the job

• How their work is exactly like what you have done in the

past

• The wrong decisions made by your previous

boss/company/colleagues


General Tips: Display Unwavering Positivity!

• Never say anything negative about anything, even the weather!

• Smile as much as possible

• When answering questions, begin each answer with a broad-based, positive statement conveying positive emotion about the subject of your answer

• Then bring it back to them and/or ask them a question


General Tips: Keep Focus on Them

• When interviewing with a hiring manager you should

be talking 1/3 – 1/2 of the time, mainly in the second

half

• Never talk for more than a minute without pausing

so they can redirect


General Tips: Act Like an Employee

• Talk to them about their work, not about your career

aspirations

• A good interview feels like an idea-generating, problem-

solving meeting between two professionals who aren’t

working together yet, but should be


General Tips: The Overall Vibe is Important

• With a potential manager who doesn’t have an opening/headcount right now, ask yourself: “they can’t hire anyone right now, but am I “feeling some love?”

• If you’re not sure, ask: If you were hiring right now, would you hire someone like me?

• If you get feedback like “Well, no, because you don’t have experience in the X or Y segment of what we do here,” don’t generalize, but rather check if you get a similar answer elsewhere (If so, you will need to adjust your targets or position yourself better)


General Tips: Answering Tough Questions

For instance, if they ask “Tell Me About Yourself?”

• Try to postpone lengthy answers until you’ve gotten

them talking about their priorities

• Might begin answer with: “I’ve been very fortunate with

my career” and then tell a concise story

• Discuss your prior performance and successes that

match the company’s three key needs

• End with a reference to them or a question for them


General Tips: Try a Variety of Questions

• If you could change one thing about this department, what would it be?

• What's one thing that’s key to your success that somebody from outside the company wouldn't know?

• To help me understand your role, what would you need to accomplish this year that would be considered “hitting it out of the park?”

• If you could hire, what are 3 key things you’d like the new hire to accomplish?


Final Stages: Increase Their Sense of Urgency

• What you want to do is actually amplify (increase) their pain about their unmet needs

• In other words, delve into the problems you’ve learned about to get them more unhappy with the status quo of not having you on the team!


“Amplify the Pain” - Brutal Workload

If there is too much work, you might ask the manager:

• Is the heavy workload affecting the team’s satisfaction/morale?

• Are you concerned about losing some good employees?

• Are you able to meet all your goals or quotas?

• Might your lack of extra bandwidth prevent senior management from being able to give you more responsibility and/or promote you?


“Amplify the Pain” - Undone Projects

• Will the undone projects possibly cause problems with management later on or at review time?

• Is there any legal or security risk that might result?


“Amplify the Pain” - Lost Opportunities

• How much revenue might [the opportunity they aren’t pursuing] bring in?

• How much business do you think [x competitor] is getting from pursuing [y opportunity]?


Follow-up – Bare Minimum

• E-mail within 2 - 48 hours to everyone you meet with, every

time.

• Don’t just thank them –

o Write thoughtful letters, focusing on their interests and

needs, showing that you remember and take interest in

their views

• Confirm any follow-up discussed (e.g., next meeting)


Follow-up – When You Really Want to Work There

Create a business plan to apply your skills to meet

departmental and company challenges:

• Define top-level problems and challenges the department

faces

• Define the work: tasks and skills you will use, new skills you

need

• Estimate profit you can bring to the bottom line (Profit may

mean higher revenues, lower costs, new efficiencies,

increased customer satisfaction, etc.)


Why the Business Plan Works

• Before you can legitimately ask for a job, you must

assess the needs of a company and plan how you

will contribute to its success

• By defining the work an employer needs done and

showing exactly how you will apply your skills, you

can demonstrate your value in the new work


IF YOU ONLY REMEMBER ONE THING:

“He who talks least wins”

(They will love you more for listening)


GET INDIVIDUAL HELP IF:

• You do not have a very clear job target• You are not getting lots of meetings with

hiring managers• You are not getting 2nd interviews• You’ve had a lot of 2nd or greater interviews

but haven’t closed• You aren’t positive that you negotiate well


Addendum

Getting Meetings:Four Methods, All Challenging!


Formal Job Market - Job Postings

Steps to get a meeting with hiring manager via job posting:

1. Tailor your resume to fit the job description and write a cover letter

showing how you fit the job perfectly (focused on you rather than the

hiring manager and his/her group)

2. Be fortunate enough to apply to ad during the period when the

recruiting team is actually reading the resumes they receive

3. Have one of the 3-10 best-fitting resumes for the job, of all the tens

or hundreds of resumes read, such that the internal recruiter or

assistant selects you

4. Interview well enough with the internal recruiter that he/she passes

you on to the hiring manager


Formal Job Market - Recruiters

Steps to get a meeting with hiring manager via executive search/headhunters

1. Land a meeting/all with external recruiter by having your resume or LinkedIn profile found or by contacting recruiter

2. Be such an extremely close fit for one of their job descriptions so that they recommend you to a hiring manager

3. Be lucky enough that the hiring manager agrees you’re a close fit so will meet with you


Hidden Job Market - Networking/Referral

Steps to get a meeting with hiring manager via

networking/referral

1. Compose a message about your interest in the hiring manager and his/her work/dept/company (focused on hiring manager and not you)

2. Persuade the mutual connection to use your message to contact the hiring manager on your behalf OR

Contact the hiring manager yourself using the mutual connection’s name

3. Be fortunate enough that their relationship is strong enough that the person agrees to meet with you


Hidden Job Market - Direct Contact

Steps to get a meeting with hiring manager via direct contact:

1. Compose a message about your interest in hiring manager and his/her group (focused on hiring manager and not you)

2. Contact the hiring manager directly by email, phone, mail or in person (i.e., at an event) and convince him or her to meet with you


Ivy Exec – Job Search Coaching

Job Search Materials and Pitch Creation: A hands-on approach to crafting your verbal and written value proposition for target roles.

Job Search Strategy Generation and Optimization: An expert's advice on any bottlenecks in your job search strategy and taking your search to the next level.

Prep for Informational/Exploratory Meetings: Informational meeting prep & practice using a customized approach leveraging draft e-mails & phone scripts.

Job Interview Preparation: Learn advanced interview techniques, practice tough interview questions and prepare for 1st/2nd/3rd-round interviews and follow-ups.

Offer Negotiation Guidance: Practice step-by-step responses for each offer and optimize your salary negotiations.


Want More Info?

Email us at [email protected] to learn more about working with Sarah and

Ivy Exec’s Career Coaching.

mailto:[email protected]

The hidden job market

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