The following transcript of

Heather MacKenzie’s interview

on

Memories and Music (broadcast February 15, 1981)

was created by the Sudbury Public Library as part of a

Summer Canada Project

in 1982.

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SUDBURY PUBLIC LIBRARY

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"MEMORIES & MUSIC " INCO METALS CO . LTD .

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ORAL HISTORY PROGRAH

INTERVIEWEE : Heather MacKenzie POSITION: Sudbury Star

columnist

DATE : February 15 , 1981 INTERVIEWER : Gary Peck

TAPE NO: 127 TRANSCRIBER: Wendy Mayhew

DATE OF TRANS: August 1982 SUMMER CANADA PROJECT

THEME: , History of Markstay and Hagar Towns hip

G. P. Heather MacKeni?e is a c olumnist with the Sudbury Star and lives on a farm in Markstay with her husband and children . Heather along with Lucie Lavoie and Carol McKerral is researching the history of Hagar t ownship .

( Music )

G. P. Heather I understand that in the history of Markstay that the year 1906 is quite i mportant . I wonder if you might comment on its significance .

H. M. January 1, 1906 is given as the official date of the i.ncorporation of Hagar t ownship . So that means that 1981 is the 75th anniversary .

G.P . O. K. could you tell us a little bit about I1arkstay prior to incorporation because I understand it ' s a community that dates back to the last century .

H. M. The passing of the C. P. R. railway in 19-, in 1883 was responsible for the beginning of the community . In 1885 a gang of railway construction workers made the f i rst settlement in the area and one of the earliest set t lers was a man by the name of Watson who was a vet eTan , of ' the Fenian Raids .

G. P. Would , would that be dating from the period about 1885? Do you have a date on him?

H. M. No date was give for him it was just .

see also #971. 3133 Lav . Markstay Memories : the story of Hagar township and its people , by Lucienne Lavoie , Heather MacKenize and Carole McKerral . Municipality of the township of Hagar , (1981) . 182 , xviiip . , illus .

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MACKENZIE

G.P . Prior to 1900 anyways .

H.M . He , he was one of the first , first settlers.

G.P . You indicated that when the railroad came through in ' 83 that ' s really when the community began .

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H. M. Yes it became • •• a regular stop on the railway . There's a hill just past Markstay and the trains needed extra momentum to get up the hill . So there was a bare locomotive station in Mar kstay that was attached t o get them over the hump to Wahnapitae .

G. P. There was a locomotive station there , you were saying in Markstay .

H. I'-1 . Yes .

G.P . Is there much evidence or records for example , f r om this early period prior t o 1900?

H. M. Not very much. There , the records we have are mainly memories of some of the early settlers in the area .

G. P. Any business ledgers , account books , diaries?

H. M. Not , not that we ' ve come across.

G.P . Not that you ' ve , your certainly looking for anything like that .

H. M. Yes we ' re looking for all the i nf or mation about the early years that we can get . Pictures ,

G. P. Could you , phot ographs as well you ' re saying .

H. M. Yes definitely .

G.P . Could you share some of the information you have with us anyhow?

H. M. About the early

G. P. About 19 , yes prior to incorporation .

H.M . Oh one i nteresting thing is that , in 1889 , two Markstay people - J . J . McMaster and D. Rousseau - had staked a mining claim known as Mount Atna Nickel and Gold mine . They s old this claim to an American company and one of the shareholders wa s the brother of president McKinnely . The brother came to r1arkstay to close the deal and he stayed in the local hotel for 3 days and they stated that he was the first person in Markstay t o wear a fur coat and they say that it was a. beaver coat .

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MACKENIZE 3

G. P. And that ' s the kind of information t hat you would have based upon people ' s recollections - tales that have been passed down through , through the years .

H. M. Based on memories , yes , yes . This information is taken from the Women's Institute Village History book . They started in 1952 gathering information .

G. P. So this would be a Tweeds-, Tweedsmuir history .

H. M. Yes .

G. P. And that book would it contain a number of photographs as well as written material ?

H. M. Oh it has lovely photographs , very interesting.

G. P. So it ' s really a primary source for the work that ' s going on right now.

H. M. What we ' re doing is an extension and enlargement of that book . They , the Women's Institute book was mainly a village history whereas we ' re l ooking at the whole town­ship not just Markstay .

G. P. And the fact that that book is available is making your work that much easier I suppose .

H. M. Oh much easier .

G. P. As ,difficult as it is .

H. M. Yes it gives us names and pictures t o get more information on .

G. P. Is there much i nformation in terms of the types of busi­nesses that there would have been in Mar kstay? At the turn of the century , prior to the turn of the century .

H. M. Mai nly there were hote l s and rooming houses • • • lumber companies . There ' s a record of Davis and Hayes Company who built an office and a warehouse on the C. P. R. property and that became the HcLeod and Collins Lumber Company and then also it was owned by the Ge orge Gordon Lumber Company and they eventually stored food and clothing there f or their lumber camps . So it became like a supply center for the lumber camps in the surrounding area .

G. P. A large percentage of the people in Mar kstay at that time would ' ve been employed i n the lumber companies I assume.

H. M. Yes there , there were farms all around the area they were family farms , supporting the family .

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G. P. Right .

H. M. And the men would work out i n the lumber camps - seasonally employed , and in the summer they had their farm .

G. P. As well perhaps s ome were involved in the mine that you mentioned a moment ago .

H. M. There was a lot of mining and prospecting activity going on in the area . Some .. • feldspar was taken out in the early 1920's , there has been prospe cting for uranium going on . There was a mica mine in operation at one point . There were garnate quaries , or there are still garnate quaries there . But they didn't seem to be economically feasible to go into full production .

G. P . Have you been able to find much information out about the names of the early families?

H. M. Yes .

G. P. People in the bus iness community , for example .

H. M. Yes .

G. P. Farming as well .

H. M. We have a l ot of names of the early families and a l ot of the descendents of the early families are still in the area .

G. P. You found that the population has stayed over the years .

H. M. The population has i ncreased .

G. P. Has increased but the de s cendents of the or iginal families have often stayed i n the area .

H. M. Yes s ome families , almost t he whole family has stayed ; other families some have gone and come back - maybe one .

G. P. What were s ome of the early churches in Markstay? At that time .

H. M. The first Catholic church was built before 1900 and it was us ed as a public school for a number of years . And then it was torn down and a stone church was built and then it was torn down and a frame church was built .

G.P. Right.

H. M. So it ' s quite a big church now .

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G. P. Were there any Protestant churches in the community?

H. M. 1906 .

G. P. 19 •••

H. M. That the Protestant church was built . And it ' s still there . It ' s a unique church i n a lot of ways because it isn ' t a denominationa l church . It ' s called the Union Church .

G. P. Right .

H. M. And encompasses all non- Catholics .

G. P. Interesting . Heather I ' ve noticed that you have come upon a letter that occurred in the Sudbury Journal back in the 1890 ' s describing , I think it was , was it the first wedding in the community . It ' s said to have been the first weeding .

G. P. It ' s said t o have been , it ' s said to have been

H. r1 . Because someone has come along and said , "No , that wasn ' t the first wedding."

G. P. No , I wonder if you ' d mind just reading it on the air now .

H. H.

I think our audience would find it interesting , the date is November 9 , 1893 and it ' s f rom the Sudbury J ournal .

To the Editor of The Journal . Dear Sir: - It is not often we have any news

in this part of the world but here is something brand new - in fact very new - f or our town , being the first event of the ki nd which has ever taken place here .

I r efer t o the wedding which took place here Monday last (yesterday). Mr . J . J . McMaster , f ormerly of McCrimmon ' s , and Miss Annie McDonald , also from Glengarry , were married , Rev . Father Lefebvre , of Sudbury , officiating .

As I stated before this is the first thing of the kind which ever took place here , s o everyone donned their Sunday clothes , and faces , too, to wish the young couple God speed on their journey of life .

The best man was Mr . Hugh J . McMaster (bride­groom's brother) , and the bridesmaid , Miss fvlinnie McDonald , formerly of Green Valley , Ont .

After the nuptial knot was tied the wedding guests repaired t o Mr . Juo . S. McMaster ' s , where a handsome dinner awaited them to which all did full justice .

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The remainder of the day and evening were spent in amusements usual t o the occasion , here and at Mr . McDonald's residence . Messres . Angus r·1cHaster and Allan McLean deserve the best thanks for the really fine music , in short it was a most enjoyable day f or all present.

We all sincerely hope, now that the ice is broken , the same thing may be often repeated .

Mr . Editor , as I must draw to a close , I am sure I only voice the sentiments of all when I wish the new couple all happiness . May their greatest troubles always be little ones .

Sincerely yours , LOCH DHEE.

G. P. Thank you . I imagine that that must be one of the earliest letters that that you ' ve encountered pertain­ing to the community .

H. M.

G. P.

H. M.

G. P.

H. M.

G. P.

H . ~l .

G. P.

H.M .

We haven ' t encountered any letters.

Any , no.

And this is what I would really like to have is especially people's impressions.

Certainly

Of the area as they came from Glengarry or Quebec.

Right .

Or Mattawa .

So that's the type of document that you ' re after , letters, diaries , accounts , whatever.

Pictures , anecdotes , even if anyone happens to have house­hold appliances , early things that were used in the comm­unity. We would like to have them, not for the book but because the committee is also sponsoring a booth at the Fall Fair, - a history booth

G.P . Good.

H. M. Where we ' ll have as much as we can acquire, on display.

G.P. So you're really interested in , verchly anything relating to the history of the community.

H. M. Yes.

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MACKENI ZE 7

G. P. And the township as a whole . Good all right on that point I ' ll think we ' ll tur n our program back t o our music hos t for the day and when we return Heat her per­haps you can gi ve us an idea to the reason for the project and give us a little more specifics in t erms of who ' s i nvolved , etc .

(Music )

G. P . Welcome back to "Memories & Music " we have with us t oday Heather MacKenize , talking about the history of Hagar township , community of Markstay i n particular . Heather before we become , before we star t discussing the project more specificall y I think there are a few threads that we could pick up pertaining to the history of Markstay , prior to 1906 , for example , could you give us an idea of where, where many of the people carne from and also one name tha t we ' re very familiar with i n Sudbury , of course , is Florence Howey becaus e of t he book s he wrote Pioneering On the C. P . R. and perhaps you mi ght be able t o relate her comments i n terms of Markstay .

H. M. Well a lot of t he early sett l ers carne from what i s known as Glengarry that inc~ude s such places as Alexandria and Lancaster . The early , t he people from those , those areas were the McPhees , McKerrals , t he Bissonnet tes , McMasters . There were other settlers that c arne from the Pembroke area . It ' s said that the f i rst labourers carne from Quebec and Gle ngarry and around the Ottawa Valley . And that the firs t con , sub- contractors f or railway ties came from the Pembroke area .

G. P . So they came from a variety of areas and certainly that has been the experience in Sudbury as well as many of the other nea rby communities .

H. M. And it s eemed that where one member of a fami ly carne , s ome­body would corne up to vis it and l ike it and

G. P. Enjoyed the ar ea and r emained .

H. H. And came and s t ay .

G. P . And t he f act t hat the r ailway ca rne through was of , is of considerable importance becaus e it opened up t he area and t hen i t would bring many over from p l a ces like Pembr oke .

H. M. Yes . When Doctor and Mr s . Howey wer e on their way to Sudbur y , t he railway onl y came a s f ar as Marks t ay , so from ther e t hey had to take a buckboard a long t he t ote r oad from Mar kstay t o Sudbury and i t wa s said that even when t he road wa s open to cars , it took 4 hours t o make the trip .

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MACKENZIE 8

G.P. Make t he trip.

H. M. So I don't know how long it would've t aken them to come by buckboard.

G. P . No , there is a photograph available - I think it ' s i n her book - showing a tote road and certainly when you look at how narrow that is , it must have been quite an ar duous trip . Heather could you tell us about oh, the motivation behind this pro ject and the , you know who the pr i me movers are and who specifically is involved in doing the research and oh how you' re going about doing the research , I suppose .

H. M. Well the first place that I heard any mention of the 75th anni versary was last spring at the retirement dinner they had for Hubert Roy who was a long time reeve of the town­ship and he mentioned than that he hoped that the township would do something to ce l ebrate the 75th anniversary . We ' re f ortunate in Hagar township to have a lot of the older people s t i ll with us and f elt that if possible we should get as many of their stories as we could and that led naturall y to t he idea of a , of a history book of the area . The clerk of the township , Theresa McDonald , and Helen McDonald, were very active in going for a grant t o support , t o finance the writing of the book . They were able to get a federal grant under the Canada Community Programs and t hat' s what ' s funding the program .

G. P . And the purpose to - as I think you said earlier - to research, compile and publish of Hagar township and people.

H.M . We would l i ke to

G. P . Quite an amb itious program .

H. M. We would like to reflect the kind of people that built t he community. They were a resourceful , hard- working kind of people and knowing this background I ' m sure would lend a pride in the community , t o the people who live there now.

G. P . So there's a message you 're trying to ge t across , very definitely.

H. M. Ye s .

G. P . Certainly. Heather will be, will there be a concentration on genealogy in this book , emphasis on it any how.

H. M. Yes. I don't know whether I would say there is an emphasis on it but it'll be an important part of the book . We would like to ge t the f amily stori es and history of as many

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G. P.

H. M.

G. P.

H. M.

G. P.

H. M.

G. P.

H. I'1 .

G. P.

H. M.

families as we can to include . Some families , it'll be a simple matter and other families it will be a monu­mental task becaus e there were many children involved and very often those children married and had families t hat stayed in the community and their families had families and they married each other s o there ' s a very bi g inter- marriage and relationship problem to sort out .

It s ounds like a very typical , complex genealogical problem that you ' re going to have to undertake .

Well it ' s going to be i nteresting .

The townshi p council , they're very supportive I assume .

Yes there are t wo members of council on the research committee that are interested in what we're doing and getting it a l l t he support they can .

Good . There are two other people working with you as well , I understand .

Yes. Lucienne Lavoie , I ' m sure she c ould wr ite a history book herself. She ' s a member of one of the oldest famil­ies in the c ommunity and Carol JVIcKerral is also part of one of the original families in the area .

Good . How are you going about collecting information on the t opics such as this? You ' re relying largely on the people i n the area I would assume.

Well we ' ve sent letters to a lis t of senior citizens . Every year the township has a senior citizens' party and they have a list of people that they invite . So we ' ve sent letters to them asking f or their cooperation in terms of memories and pictures . We're going through the t own­ship talking to as many people as we can - getting their stories and their histories . We ' re getting what informa­tion we can from the t ownship files , from the s chool records , from there ' s a l e tter gone to the Department of I ndian Affairs that we ' re waiting for an answer to . There are Indian names in the area so we would have to assume that at some point that there was some sort of Indian prescence . And what else are we doing

What about places such as the Toronto Archives , Ottawa Archives do they have any informat ion?

Very little .

G.P . Very litt le.

H. M. Very little information. Not just about Markstay but about the whole area .

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G.P. They're waiting for your book , I do too.

H. M. I hope they buy one.

G. P. I ' m sure they will , I ' m sure they'll be interested. Are the people in the community very supportive as a whole .

H. M. Yes , it's , it's interesting when we ' re talking to people they seem sort of uncertain at the beginning but as the conversation progresses you can feel their excitement growing and just about every place we leave they say "I'm going to look for more information . I'm going to phone a relative who ' s sure to have more information . " So they are becoming in it .

G. P. In a real sense it is a community effort, isn ' t it? And they ' re likely to feel part of it.

H. M. Yes because it will only r epresent the community in as much as the community takes part in the collecting of the information.

G.P .

H. M.

G. P.

H. M.

G.P.

H. M.

G.P .

You ' re i nterviewing people .

Yes.

Are you interviewing them on tape?

Some

I n some cases.

Some cases it' s on tape , others it ' s by notes and memory.

Right . Have you had any i nteresting experiences in terms of uncovering information that perhaps you weren't aware of. People who had information t hat they had tucked away that they had forgotten about , any surprises.

H. M. , Well it was a surprise to me to find out that a carload of feldspar was taken off the property across the road from my place and that was in 1922 I think.

G.P . How would you find that out? Recollection?

H. M. No I went to the Department of Mines and was looking through a publication that they had on feldspar production and it just happened tha t they gave out concession and lot number of an operation that had just shipped out - one carload . And I found that kind of interesting.

G.P. I would imagine s o. Were there or are there existing that you have been able to uncover any tourist brochures of the area or promotional pamphlets?

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MACKENIZE 11

H.M . No there isn't very much in the way of tourism i n the area at a l l . A trailer park has gone up on Highway 535 between Hagar and River Veuve and other than that there is no tourism. There was a lodge on Nepawassi Lake but that ' s s outh of the t ownship .

G. P . What about records from the lumber companies?

H. M. There ' s •••

G. P. Are they ava ilable?

H. M. There seems to be very little available . There ' s one book i n the l ibr ary ••• put out by an i ndividual who' s done a lot of research and the only , he ment ions only two companies i n Hagar township the Gordon Lumber Company and the Shaw Lumber Company . But there were many , many more . There just se emed t o be a proliferat ion of saw mills and lath mills in the area .

G. P . Have you been able to i nterview some of the workers assoc­iated with the lumbering companies?

H. M. A l ot , s ome of the owners are still living in the area , like former owners .

G. P . Good . This booklet I assume than wil l have a number of chapters i n it , a section perhaps deal ing with l ogging and a section deal ing with

H. M. Yes that takes such a

G. P. The c ommuni ty .

H. M. And still doe s p l aya big part in the c ommunity because even now there are people who make part of their living cutting wood .

G. P. An i mportant part than of the economy then .

H. r1 . And it was all connected with t he railway because the l umber that was cut was shipped out by rail and at one point they were driving it down t he Veuve River and that I thought was unusual the Veuve doesn ' t seem to be a big enough r iver for a l og drive.

G. P . No it wouldn ' t certainl y seem that way to me .

H. M. As late as 1922 , there was a log drive down the Veuve from Mar kstay t o Sturgeon .

G. P . Very interesting . I think we ' ll , we 'll turn the program back to our music host and Heather I noticed that you have

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MACKENIZE 12

a voters' list there and those are , are items that are not t hat common . And that voters ' list is dated what 19 -

H. M. 1919 .

G. P. 1919 possibly we could take a look at that and we'll get an idea of some of the pioneer families in , in Markstay . Certainly from that period of time anyhow.

( Music)

G.P . Welcome back to today ' s program of "Hemories & Music , " with Heather MacKenzie talking with us about the community of Markstay and the history of Hagar t ownship in general . Heather you have a voters ' list there dated I believe 1919 and I wonder if you might share with us some of the names that are included in the list .

H. M. Some of the names that appear on the list are quite familiar be cause their families are still living in Hagar township. We have a John Brown who is l isted here as a farmer . He has a son that stil l lives i n Hagar township , Mr . Duncan Brown . John Brown served as secretary -- treasurer of Hagar township from 1914 for many years , I don ' t know exactly when his term as secretary- treasurer ended . He was also on town council for at least one term . Going down the list we have Clark , and a Chamber lain . The Chamberlains are still i n the area and there are still some Chamberlains living in Lively from the family that originated or had settled in the Markstay area . Cleaverly is an unfamiliar name to me but I might say that if , if anybody recognizes their family name and remembers that they have roots in Hagar t ownship, we would be interested i n hearing from them with any of their memories or stories.

G. P. All right so they can contact yourself , Heather MacKenize, i n , in Markstay .

H. M. Yes .

G. P. Or they c ould contact the clerk ' s office I suppose .

H. M. And she would direct them to

G. P. Forward the i nformation ,

H. M. To one of the research committee.

G. P. Good or even the , there ' s a library .

H. M. No

G. P. No

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H. M. Markstay doesn't have a library .

G. P . O. K.

H. M. There ' s an Edward Doherty , he was a f a rmer and a Peter Dunn Nho was listed as an engi neer . We have a D.J. Finan who was a hotel keeper , he had the onl y 3- storey building in Hagar township and it was a , started out as a frame hotel and it was covered over with brick veneer . It ' s a very impressive looking building . It ' s very difficult to think of a building like that having been in Mar kstay at any time let a lone at the turn of the century .

G. P . He obvious l y had a successful business .

H. M. Well there ' s a story about that hotel, at l east I think it ' s that hotel , that it was supposed t o have been a very cold place . And on this particular day a man came in from outside with icicles hanging from his beard and his eyebrows frosted over and one of the guests came down the stairs i n the hotel and seeing him said , "Oh what room are you staying i n s ir?" And we had

G. P. That ' s the k ind of story we 'll see in print I hope .

H. M. I hope s o, yes , we won ' t f orget that . A Thomas Frogman lived a ••• lived there , he was a farmer . I ' m just trying to see if there are people who were , other than farmers . We had a t rainman , Milas HcDonald was a train­man . There are many , many HcDonalds and they ' re not all from the same family . But s ome are brothers and s ome are cousins and s ome are just originating in different places . The fVlcKerrals were a family that came at the turn of the century . The McKerrals came as a couple , - Mr . and Mrs . John McKerral - and they had 12 children and several of their children stayed in Markstay and are raising their families who are raising their families i n the area . Then the McPhees , six brothers came f r om Glengarry and they bought farms adj oining each other all along the f ourth concession . But they were more interested in prospecting and i n mining than they were in f arming . And there are lots of s tories t old about the McPhees . A Millichamp is a name familiar t o a lot of people i n the area . They had a farm on the fif th concession I think it was and Mrs . Millichamp used to walk about six miles t o ~1arkstay t o give piano lessons to the s on of the station master at that time . It was Rodney McDonald, not Rodney Hamilton .

G. P . What time woul d we be talking?

H. M. That would be I would think in the 1930' s .

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G. P. And his name again was , the station master .

H. M. The station mas ter was Hamilton , maybe in the 1920 ' s . I ' m not exactly sure when Hamilton came and he , Mr . Millichamp is supposed t o have made a daily trip into Mar ks t ay carrying eggs on his back t o sell to the vill agers . What other name s are i nteresting here? Oh there are the , the Prieurs , that ' s another large family i n Hagar township and the Roys . Nap Roy who is the father of Mr s . Lavoie had one of the early hotels and some of the early businesses . He had a garage and he was post , well his family was the post office pe ople and he had one of the first cars that went t hrough from Warren to Markstay . There ' s an Ed Vai l lancourt here , there are stil l Vaillancourt s i n the t ownship . I n fac t we have a Vaillancourt sitting on town c ouncil right now, one of the daughters . There are , there ' s onl y one , no two ladies l isted on this voters ' list and I ' m curious as to why ther e are only two. If two l adie s coul d vote why coul dn ' t t hey all . There ' s probably some qualification that they have that the others don ' t . But it woul d be interesting t o know why .

G. P. So that ' s a voters ' list for munc ipal and provinc i al pur poses .

H. M. Yes this one ' s for both muncipal and provincial . There's an addition that ' s just for muncipal . Are you interested in names from that list as we l l?

G.P. If there are any , yes , that we haven ' t heard thus far .

H. M. There ' s , there ' s an Edward Dow and a Mr s . P. Grant . There are more women on this lis t .

G. P . The provincia l list .

H. M. No on the muncipal list .

G. P. Muncipal .

H. M. Yes . There ' s a J.H . Cleary and a Henry Chorette and a Mrs . J . Armstrong and Mrs. G. Jordon , Mrs . H. Lecour , Orville Lal onde , Emil Laliberte , Mrs . J . Landreault , Edward Malozie , Mrs . J . Morrison , Napoleon Tetreault , and there' s a Dr . A. Wright listed and his occupation he ' s given as physician . Nobody has been able to remem­ber anything about a doctor ever living in Hagar township . There ' s a possibility , of course , that he just owned property and didn' t live there . But it would be i nterest­i ng to know more about him as well .

G. P. Good that ' s the type of document that you ~re , you ' re definitely afte r - voters ' list .

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H. M. Yes it ' s very interesting . It gives us an indication of who was here , who was there and an idea of some people that we might be able to contact.

G.P . I noticed that you also have a school ledger , again those are important .

H. M. Oh yes the school ledger is, is very interesting. It tells , it~~ the ledger of the separate school and it gives a s mall history as to how the school came about and some of the early trustees and a list of the teachers; accounts of their Christmas concerts and one account of one of the people who won an award in a provincial contest.

G.P. Good. So that'll be a part of your history as well then,

H.r1. Yes .

G.P. All right what I think what we'll do is turn the program back to our music host and when we return Heather we ' ll, we'll wrap this segment of "Memories & Music" up and you can perhaps share with us some of your impressions of Markstay and oh you can talk about some of the character­istics of the people in general .

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G. P. Welcome back to "l'-1emories & Music ." Heather MacKenize has been sharing with us today a number of interesting anecdotes about Hagar township and Markstay and Heather I understand you , you're from Sudbury but you've lived in Markstay for six years but certainly you've been very actively involved i n connect ion with the committee you ' re on. In terms of researching the history, could you perhaps share with us s ome of your impressions of the community , either past or present .

H.M . Well from talking with some of the older people in the community I get a real feeling of resourcefulness, of hard work, a feeling that life was better when people were busy, when they had to work hard , when they didn't have ~s much free time as we had . I get the feeling that Markstay as a community was a very busy place with the railway being the center. Logs were being shipped out , wood was being shipped out. There were plants manufacturing doors for grain cars and other wooden materials needed along the C.P.R. The area was busy agricultur ally . Every farm was produc ing enough for its own family as well as enough t o ship out . There were a lot of cattle, sheep , pigs i n the area . In one train load they sent out 3 cars of cattle, 2 cars of sheep , and a carload of sheep and pigs.

G. P . What , what time period would this be?

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H.M. That would be ••• probably in the 1920 ' s . And through­out the early days and now I get the feeling that the people have been really working hard to minimize the differences that there are between the French and the English , the Catholics and the Protestants . It's a very mixed community . There are activities in French and activities in English but there is no fe~ ling of separate­ness . It ' s a very ••• i n a lot of ways it ' s a community that can serve as an example .

G. P . That ' s quite interesting . Heather you had an anecdote a while ago about t he resourcefulness of some of the pe ople in the community .

H. M. Oh one of them , the men I was talking to , told me about a time when he had a pig butche,red and this pig was to last the winter and not having the facilities that we have , he had to put it in his barr el of brine , he did and his wife came and asked him , "What happened to the brine?" He had better put some brine in this pork or it's going to spoil ." We ll he said , he did put brine in the barrel and he went and looked and there was no brine in the barrel. He had discovered that his barrel had sprung leak and he needed his pork • . So he looked around to find some ••• piece of material that would • • • serve as a hoop so he could rehoop his barrel and he coul dn ' t find anything. The only thing of suitable size was the rim for his tire on his old car , old to us , I guess it wasn ' t very old to him. So the pork being more important than t he car, he used the rim of his tires to rehoop his barrel . The car not be i ng able to go without the rims , he turned it into a mill for his wood. I think that ' s really shows making the use of everything you ' ve got.

G. P. Ri ght, people were very self- reliant in those days .

H. H. Nowadays we look a t a pr oblem and we wonder who we can get t o come and fix it and in those days they j ust went ahead and did .

G. P . They had a different approach didn ' t they _ Heather from your school ledger there was an interesting item that you were referring t o during the break if you •

H. M. Yes I mentioned before a Markstay resident that had won an award. She was Rollande Portelance . In 1947 she was the winner of the r ural schools in three tests held at Warren , Coniston and Sudbury . This was in the French contest. When she went to Ottawa she won first prize for (unintelli­gible ) and she also it says received her entrance certifi­cate by r ecommendation from the Board of Education.

G. P . Thank you Heather for talking with us today about Hagar township and Markstay . All too often when it comes time to write the history of villages or towns usually they 're

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i gnored . The r esearch committee including yourself and Lucienne Lavoie and Car ol McKerral certainly deserve commendation for the work that ' s , that has been under­taken .

also #R971.3133 Lav Markstay ~1emories: the story of Hagar township and itls people, by Lucienne Lavoie, Heather ~1acKenzie and Carole McKerral. Municipality of the township of Hagar, (1981). 182, XVlllp, illus.