Talking with a shared Talking with a shared purpose: applying a narrative purpose: applying a narrative approach to career guidance approach to career guidance

interviewsinterviews

Hazel ReidHazel Reid

Centre for Career & Personal Centre for Career & Personal DevelopmentDevelopment

Developing narrative Developing narrative thinkingthinking

What is it?What is it? Why is it worth considering?Why is it worth considering? What are the benefits?What are the benefits? What are the limitations?What are the limitations? Could it fit within existing models?Could it fit within existing models? Would it work in a range of contexts?Would it work in a range of contexts? How do I do it?How do I do it?

Constructivist and Narrative Constructivist and Narrative approachesapproaches

Post-modern, post-structuralist and all Post-modern, post-structuralist and all that stuff!that stuff!

The move from 20The move from 20thth to 21 to 21stst century century thinking – a focus on meaningthinking – a focus on meaning

Established approaches found ‘wanting’Established approaches found ‘wanting’ Familiar or a new way of thinking?Familiar or a new way of thinking? Development within counsellingDevelopment within counselling And career counsellingAnd career counselling

Why is it worth considering?Why is it worth considering?

Stories are about events, patterns, insights into Stories are about events, patterns, insights into how we construct a view of ourselves in the past, how we construct a view of ourselves in the past, present and futurepresent and future

Deeper understanding, better exploration, action Deeper understanding, better exploration, action that is likely to be more useful for the individualthat is likely to be more useful for the individual

Resonates with a multicultural approach – Resonates with a multicultural approach – sensitive to the importance of the individual’s sensitive to the importance of the individual’s world view / frame of referenceworld view / frame of reference

Guidance is not a neutral activity - helps us to Guidance is not a neutral activity - helps us to consider aspects of powerconsider aspects of power

It’s also interesting, exciting, motivating and It’s also interesting, exciting, motivating and engaging – for both parties.engaging – for both parties.

Potential benefitsPotential benefits

Collaborative approachCollaborative approach Can avoid taking a Can avoid taking a

deficit view of the deficit view of the personperson

Places meaning in the Places meaning in the foregroundforeground

Recognises the Recognises the importance of contextimportance of context

‘‘Back swing’ Back swing’ ((Amundson)Amundson) -works towards a -works towards a ‘better’ story‘better’ story

Moves from identifying Moves from identifying the problem, exploring the problem, exploring interests and options to interests and options to agreed action (sound agreed action (sound familiar?)familiar?)

The reality-test of The reality-test of career/life narrative career/life narrative work with a ‘client’ work with a ‘client’ needs to recognise needs to recognise

that action occurs in an that action occurs in an interactive world. It is interactive world. It is this acknowledgment this acknowledgment

of the need for of the need for negotiating action that negotiating action that

moves a narrative moves a narrative approach out of the approach out of the trap of a backward trap of a backward

looking past.looking past.

Possible limitationsPossible limitations

Abstract and esoteric – unconnected to the Abstract and esoteric – unconnected to the day-to-day realities of practice?day-to-day realities of practice?

Too focused on understanding?Too focused on understanding? Too dependent on therapeutic counselling?Too dependent on therapeutic counselling? Sounds expensive – time?Sounds expensive – time? You say the approach is ‘interesting, You say the approach is ‘interesting,

exciting, motivating and engaging’, but how exciting, motivating and engaging’, but how do I do it?do I do it?

Fit with existing modelsFit with existing models

Egan’s approach is Egan’s approach is outdated?outdated?

Don’t throw out the Don’t throw out the baby with the bath baby with the bath water!water!

The 3 stage model has The 3 stage model has a simplicity that has a simplicity that has some elegancesome elegance

A framework – A framework – recognise its recognise its limitationslimitations

Established career Established career theory continues to theory continues to have relevance within have relevance within an integrated approach an integrated approach

And a range of contexts?And a range of contexts?

Work with young peopleWork with young people AdultsAdults Cultural groupsCultural groups ‘‘Challenging clients’Challenging clients’ In response to the changing In response to the changing

practical and political context, practical and political context, constructivist approaches offer constructivist approaches offer new perspectives for career new perspectives for career interventions, including working interventions, including working in holistic settingsin holistic settings

Sometimes it will work, Sometimes it will work, sometimes it won’t!sometimes it won’t!

Narrative thinking – applied to Narrative thinking – applied to careers interviewscareers interviews

Dangers of the cookbook approachDangers of the cookbook approach Mining counselling approachesMining counselling approaches A different way of thinking about the ‘client’A different way of thinking about the ‘client’ The practitioner needs the kind of respectful The practitioner needs the kind of respectful

curiosity that asks: What other voices are curiosity that asks: What other voices are present in those stories? How does the present in those stories? How does the client position themselves through the client position themselves through the meaning they place on their experiences? meaning they place on their experiences?

Externalising conversations: naming the Externalising conversations: naming the problemproblem

More than one way to tell a story & what More than one way to tell a story & what about an audience?about an audience?

How?How?

Listen to the story and understand what Listen to the story and understand what the person is saying about their situation, the person is saying about their situation, their difficulty – ask ‘how’ rather than their difficulty – ask ‘how’ rather than ‘why’ questions‘why’ questions

Respond in ways that build and maintain Respond in ways that build and maintain rapport to encourage continuation of the rapport to encourage continuation of the dialogue – search for the detaildialogue – search for the detail

Ask the kinds of open questions that draw Ask the kinds of open questions that draw out more informationout more information

And with ‘challenging And with ‘challenging clients’clients’

Don’t look for blame, but externalise the problem Don’t look for blame, but externalise the problem and separate the person from the problem – name and separate the person from the problem – name the problem, start with ‘it’ until a name is found the problem, start with ‘it’ until a name is found that fits: ‘Trouble’ is an example of naming the that fits: ‘Trouble’ is an example of naming the problem in order to give ‘it’ an identity separate problem in order to give ‘it’ an identity separate from the personfrom the person

Help clients to move on and build alternative Help clients to move on and build alternative ‘career’ stories that will make managing the present ‘career’ stories that will make managing the present easier whilst working together to make positive easier whilst working together to make positive changeschanges

The techniques and skills to achieve this have much in The techniques and skills to achieve this have much in

common with those used in solution focused work.common with those used in solution focused work.

Narrative thinking applied to Narrative thinking applied to interviews – SFBT strategiesinterviews – SFBT strategies

Seeking exceptionsSeeking exceptions ScalingScaling Building on strengthsBuilding on strengths Questions about a Questions about a

possible futurepossible future Using the miracle Using the miracle

questionquestion

One step at a timeOne step at a time Doing something Doing something

differentdifferent ComplimentsCompliments

Even when ‘career’ Even when ‘career’ decisions are not needed decisions are not needed immediately, the person immediately, the person can play with an idea for can play with an idea for

a dream future.a dream future.

Accessible literature for Accessible literature for applying narrative thinking to applying narrative thinking to

practicepractice Winslade, J., & Monk, G. Winslade, J., & Monk, G.

(1999) (1999) Narrative counseling Narrative counseling in schools: powerful and in schools: powerful and briefbrief, Thousand Oaks, , Thousand Oaks, California: Corwin Press IncCalifornia: Corwin Press Inc

McMahon, M., & Patton, W. McMahon, M., & Patton, W. (2006) (eds) (2006) (eds) Career Career counselling: Constructivist counselling: Constructivist approachesapproaches. Oxon: . Oxon: Routledge.Routledge.

A way forward – from talking to A way forward – from talking to doing?doing?

An invitation to An invitation to participate in a participate in a

collaborative project.collaborative project.

Creating, applying, Creating, applying, adapting and adapting and

evaluating a narrative evaluating a narrative ‘model’ for career ‘model’ for career

guidance interviewing.guidance interviewing.

h.l.reid@canterbury.ac.uh.l.reid@canterbury.ac.ukk