Sunni – Shia Debate On Polytheism Asking Help From Other Than Allah (Ali or Husain) in Dua is...

Sunni – Shia Debate On Polytheism

Abu Jaiyana

October 23 at 2:33pm

12 Imamiya Shia Mushriks (Polytheists) ?

Resolve: ASKING HELP FROM OTHER THAN ALLAH (ALI OR HUSAIN) IN DUA IS SHIRK IN ISLAMIC JURISPRUDENCE.

Affirmative: Abu Jaiyana – AhlulSunnah (mainstream Islam)

Negative : Nass Abinal aka Hussein Abinal ( Twelvers Shiaism)

Format:

1. Presentations: 2500 words maximum 2. Cross Examinations: 5 Questions maximum per debater 3. Replies to Cross Examination Questions: 500 words maximum per question 4. Rebuttals: 2500 words maximum 5. Conclusions: 1000 words maximum

Rules:

1. No links, smilies, pictures, all caps paragraph is allowed. 2. 48 hours time limit to reply to the post of the opponent (responding asap is highly recommended and appreciated) 3. Violation the the format and/or any of the rules will render the violator lost by default.

Like Comment

Share Hussein Abinal, Lahsim Irsuy, Sam Maulana and 37 others like this.

Comments

Ashabe Mauna Guro Sir Nass Abinal, ayan motion maganda yan na motion laban ka para naman mapakinggan

mga katwiran mo.

Unlike · Reply · 1 · October 23 at 8:32pm

Abu Jaiyana I will expose the polytheistic practice of this religion of shirk in sha Allah based on the Quran and the

Sunnah of the Prophet s.a.w.

Like · Reply · 4 · October 23 at 8:52pm

Abu Jaiyana Wait for Nass Abinal - this would be a historical fb debate bet sunnis and shias in Philippines because

Nass Abinal is the vanguard of the shias here in Phils.


https://www.facebook.com/AbuJaiyana?fref=nf

https://www.facebook.com/groups/641344035998190/permalink/718829131583013/

https://www.facebook.com/AbuJaiyana

https://www.facebook.com/nassabinal

https://www.facebook.com/groups/641344035998190/718671481598778/?notif_t=group_comment_follow



https://www.facebook.com/nassabinal?hc_location=ufi

https://www.facebook.com/xlawace?hc_location=ufi

https://www.facebook.com/sam.eduardo.7?hc_location=ufi

https://www.facebook.com/browse/likes?actorid=1218574446&id=718829131583013

https://www.facebook.com/ash.abe.92?fref=ufi

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100008632030020&hc_location=ufi



https://www.facebook.com/browse/likes?id=718916501574276

https://www.facebook.com/groups/641344035998190/permalink/718829131583013/?comment_id=718916501574276&offset=100&total_comments=132&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R9%22%7D

https://www.facebook.com/AbuJaiyana?fref=ufi











https://www.facebook.com/ash.abe.92?fref=ufi



https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100008632030020&fref=ufi

Nass Abinal You may proceed. Prove your assertion.

Unlike · Reply · 2 · October 23 at 10:59pm

Abu Jaiyana

ن الرحيم بسم الله الرحم

I begin by mentioning the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful

All perfect praise be to Allaah, The Lord of the Worlds. I testify that there is none worthy of worship except Allaah,

and that Muhammad, is His slave and Messenger.

I welcome everyone and I encouraged each and every reader of this debate to read carefully and ponder deeply on

the arguments and evidences of both sides in this debate. My opponent, Nass Abinal, is known to be the greatest

defender of shiaism cult here in the Philippines; he admitted to me that Iran is supporting his group, therefore he is

no ordinary shia debater.

The issue in this debate is whether or not asking help from other than Allah in Dua (supplication) is shirk

(polytheism) in Islamic jurisprudence. In Arabic terminology, it is known as “ISTIGHATHAH”

The people of Sunnah (ahlul Sunnah) consider “ISTIGHATHAH” as shirk, while the Shias Imamiya known as the Jafari

or 12 Imamites consider it as permissible, so what would be our objective criteria in judging whether

“ISTIGHATHAH” is shirk or not shirk?

We also know that the ahlul Sunnah and the Shias accept the Quran to be hujja, proof in and of itself, and that the

Sunnah of the Prophet elaborates the Quran, therefore, in order for me, the affirmative side, to prove that

“ISTIGHATHAH” is shirk, I will use both the Quran and the Sunnah as proof for my argument .

Nass Abinal and I will surely have different interpretations of the ayat of the Quran as well as the hadiths of Prophet

Muhammad, but for you readers, let the Quran and the Sunnah speak for themselves. Our personal interpretations

here is not important.

Allah said 4:59 O you who have believed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. And

if you disagree over anything, REFER IT TO ALLAH AND THE MESSENGER, if you should believe in Allah and the Last

Day. That is the best [way] and best in result.

Like · Reply · 10 · October 24 at 10:36am

Abu Jaiyana WHAT IS SHIRK?

The word shirk in Arabic means taking a partner. It is said in Arabic: ASHRAKA BAYNAHUMA, trans. “he joined them

together”.

In terms of sharee’ah or Islamic terminology, shirk means ascribing a partner or rival to Allaah in Lordship

(ruboobiyyah), WORSHIP (Ibadah) or in His names and attributes.

Example:

2:165. And there are some among men who take for themselves OBJECTS of worship besides Allah, whom they love

as they love Allah…”

“WaoAAbudoo Allaha wala tushrikoo bihi shayan”

4: 36. And serve Allah and do not associate anything with Him



















Abu Jaiyana DUÁ (SUPPLICATION) IN ISLAM IS AN ACT OF WORSHIP ACCORDING TO THE QURAN AND THE

SUNNAH:

أ ام لق .20 :72 عأ او يب ي أ اأدع هب لع

72: 20. Qul innama ADAAOO rabbee wala oshriku bihi ahadan

72: 20. Say: I only call upon my Lord, and I do not associate any one with Him.

Sunan Abu Dawud Book 8, 1474, 17, Hadith 1465 The Prophet (ملسو هيلع هللا ىلص) said : Supplication (du'a') is itself the worship. "

Sunan At-Tirmidhi 3247 - An-Nu’man ibn Basheer reported: I heard the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him,

say, “Supplication is worship.”


Abu Jaiyana LET US NOW EXAMINE WHAT ALLAH HAD TAUGHT US IN MAKING/PERFORMING OUR ACTS OF

WORSHIP SUCH AS IN MAKING DUA OR SUPPLICATION.

Allah said:...See More


Abu Jaiyana SHIA ALIBIS

The shias may say that they don’t consider Ali or Husayn as Gods besides Allah or even equal to Allah, so how can

that be Shirk?

Well, considering the object of worship to be God or equal to God doesn’t negate the act of shirk itself. The Catholics

don’t consider Mary and their saints as Gods or equal to God, but still they are committing shirk in asking help from

them because they are supposed to ask help in their supplications directly to God.

The polytheists’ argument during the Prophet’s time, as Allah indicates:

39: 3. Surely pure religion is for Allah only. And those who choose protecting friends beside Him (say): WE

WORSHIP THEM ONLY THAT THEY MAY BRING US NEAR UNTO ALLAH. Lo! Allah will judge between them

concerning that wherein they differ. Lo! Allah guideth not him who is A LIAR, AN INGRATE.

The polytheists didn’t actually believe that their objects of worship are equal with God, let alone separate Gods, yet

that didn’t excuse them for being labeled as polytheists by the Prophet s.a.w.


Abu Jaiyana PLEASE BE CAREFUL WITH THE SHIA DECEIT FOLKS.

Some shias also said that intercession is allowed in the Quran – Yes it is allowed but it is not granted to those who

commit shirk.

4: 48. Surely Allah does not forgive that anything should be associated with Him, and forgives what is besides that to

whomsoever He pleases; and whoever associates anything with Allah, he devises indeed a great sin.

Moreover, intercession would only take place in the hereafter not in this world, therefore calling anyone other than






















Allah to help us in this world is nonsensical.

Some shias also said that some Sahaba do tawasul to someone – tawasul is allowed but only to a living person.

There is no instruction either from the Quran or in the Sunnah that making tawasul to those who have passed away

(not living anymore in this world) is allowed.

On the contrary the Sahaba such as Umar made tawasul with Al Abbas, the uncle of the Prophet. Had tawasul

allowed for those who have passed away, Umar would have made tawasul with the Prophet instead of Al Abbas.


Abu Jaiyana SOME SHIAS MISUSED THIS AYAH IN ORDER TO PROMOTE THEIR SHIRK

2:154 "And do not speak of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead; nay, (they are) alive, but you do not

perceive."

They will play on you on the word “dead” – they would say that their saints are not “dead” therefore it is okay to ask

help from them.

We ask them, “If they are not dead, then why did you bury them?”

The word dead here folks doesn’t mean they didn’t die in this world, or that they are still living in this world. In fact,

this ayah was revealed in connection to the martyrdom of the Sahaba in the Battle of Uhud. Allah merely eased the

sorrow of the Muslims by telling them that the souls of those martyrs DID NOT CEASE TO EXIST but they are in

paradise.

All everyone shall taste death:

21: 35. Every soul must taste of death

Even Prophet Muhammad would die and has died.

39:29 Verily, you (O Muhammad SAW) will die and verily, they (too) will die.


Abu Jaiyana ANOTHER MISUSE OF THE AYAH BY THE SHIAS:

5: 35. O you who believe! be careful of (your duty to) Allah and seek means of nearness to Him and strive hard in His

way that you may be successful.

Al-Hafidh Ibn Katheer r. reported Ibn Abbas r.a saying in his commentary of this verse: “The meaning of al-Waseelah

is to draw closer.” He also reports from Qatadah: “THIS IS THAT YOU DRAW NEAR TO HIM BY OBEDIENCE TO

HIM AND THROUGH ACTIONS THAT ARE PLEASING TO HIM.” And Ibn Katheer r. said: “And with regard to what

those Imams (Ibn Abbas and Qatadah) said there is no disagreement between the scholars of Tafseer about it.

Moreover, even if we don’t present that tafseer of Ibn Abbas r.a. still we can logically say that it is not seeking

nearness (wasilah) to Allah when someone does shirk because Allah has already said that shirk is unforgivable.

We ask help from a physician or anyone because they are still living in this world and, they are present and are able

to help us – despite of that, we don’t ask help from them in our Du’a.



















Abu Jaiyana ALI AND HUSAYN R.A, DID NOT ORDER THE SHIAS TO CALL ON THEM IN THEIR DUA AFTER

THEIR DEMISE.

What is very amazing here folks is that Ali and Husayn who are made as object of worship by the Shias never told the

shias, in any authentic report, that they should or could be called in for help in their Du'a after their demise.

This is purely innovation in religion even in shiaism.

Jesus a.s. didnt tell his followers to call on him or worship him after his ascension/departure but Christians do call on

Jesus, and even Mary a.s. and the Catholic saints.

The Shias do the same shirk with Ali, Husayn, Fatima, ect.


Abu Jaiyana In summary, my opponent needs to refute the following points:

1. That Du’a is in itself Ibada (act of worship) according to the Quran and the Sunnah .

2. That acts of worship is directed/addressed ONLY to Allah according to the Quran and the Sunnah .

3. That Shias are guilty of shirk when they call Ali and Husayn for help in their du’a because they are committing shirk

in their act of worship.

Our challenge to Nass Abinal is to produce the following evidences:

1. Asking help in Du’a from anyone other than Allah is approved in the Quran.

2. Asking help in Du’a from anyone other than Allah is commanded or practiced by Prophet Muhammad and is

reported in Sahih Hadiths.

His failure to produce the evidences from the Quran and the authentic sunnah would mean defeat of Shiaism.

Please be careful of the snowball fallacy folks. Someone would quote so many ayat which do not really support his

argument but a deception to the readers by bluffing them that the guy has many ayat to support his argument where

in fact those ayat say something else.

Please be careful also with untraceable hadiths, and hadiths which are not considered as authentic by hadith

scholars. Our Shia friend are very good of doing this trick. I hope Nass Abinall would not employ that devilish strategy

here in this debate.

Jazakallaho Khair.

End of my presentation.


Nass Abinal In the Name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful

All praise belongs to Allah, the Lord of the Universe.

And blessings and peace be upon our Prophet and Master Muhammad and his purified and righteous family.














I testify that there is no god but Allah, the One Who has no partner.

And I testify that Muhammad is His Slave and Messenger.

And I testify that 'Ali is the Ameerul Mo'mineen, the Imaamul Muttaqeen and the Waliul Mo'mineen.

A Muslim who makes these testimonies sincerely is a monotheist and his eeman / faith is complete.

The Qur'an demonstrates very clearly that polytheism or attributing partners to Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, is not

limited to worshiping or asking help from men or man-made lifeless idols but choosing and following the people not

chosen by Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, for our guidance after Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him and his

family.

The Qur'an made this obvious in the following verses:

Say: "Of your 'partners' is there any that can give any guidance towards truth?" Say: "It is Allah Who gives guidance

towards truth, is then He Who gives guidance to truth more worthy to be followed, or he who finds not guidance

(himself) unless he is guided? what then is the matter with you? How judge ye?" 11:35.

Say: Praise be to Allah, and Peace on his servants whom He has chosen (for his Message). (Who) is better?- Allah

or the false gods they associate (with Him)? 27:59

Thy Lord does create and choose as He pleases: no choice have they (in the matter): Glory to Allah! and far is He

above the partners they ascribe (to Him)! 28:68.

If the Ashaab / Companions as a whole were the chosen ones of Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, then, abandoning

them in favor of the Ahlulbayt or the family of the Messenger is shirk.

However, the Qur'an guides us to the people chosen by Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, in the following verses:

Show us the straight way,

The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, ..... 1:6-7

This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah;

Who believe in the Unseen, are steadfast in prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them;

And who believe in the Revelation sent to thee, and sent before thy time, and (in their hearts) have the assurance of

the Hereafter.

They are on (true) guidance, from their Lord, and it is these who will prosper. 2:2-5.

To be continued.


Nass Abinal Continuation of my presentation.

They say: "Become Jews or Christians if ye would be guided (To salvation)." Say thou: "Nay! (I would rather) the

Religion of Abraham the True, and he joined not gods with Allah."

Say ye: "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes,

and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between

one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam)."

So if they believe as ye believe, they are indeed on the right path; but if they turn back, it is they who are in schism;

but Allah will suffice thee as against them, and He is the All-Hearing, the All-Knowing. 2:135-137.







The Messenger believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of them)

believeth in Allah, His angels, His books, and His messengers. "We make no distinction (they say) between one and

another of His messengers." And they say: "We hear, and we obey: (We seek) Thy forgiveness, our Lord, and to

Thee is the end of all journeys."

On no soul doth Allah Place a burden greater than it can bear. It gets every good that it earns, and it suffers every ill

that it earns. (Pray:) "Our Lord! Condemn us not if we forget or fall into error; our Lord! Lay not on us a burden Like

that which Thou didst lay on those before us; Our Lord! Lay not on us a burden greater than we have strength to

bear. Blot out our sins, and grant us forgiveness. Have mercy on us. Thou art our Protector; Help us against those

who stand against faith."

2:285-286

O ye who believe! bow down, prostrate yourselves, and adore your Lord; and do good; that ye may prosper.

And strive in His cause as ye ought to strive, (with sincerity and under discipline). He has chosen you, and has

imposed no difficulties on you in religion; it is the cult of your father Abraham. It is He Who has named you Muslims,

both before and in this (Revelation); that the Messenger may be a witness for you, and ye be witnesses for mankind!

So establish regular Prayer, give regular Charity, and hold fast to Allah! He is your Protector - the Best to protect and

the Best to help! 22:77-78.

The verses quoted above have told us, among others, the following:

1. The Right Path is the Path of the People favored or blessed by Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted. This Right Path

includes the acts of worship and asking help from Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted. 1:6-7

2. The favored Servants of Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, are the Muttaquun / Pious who are described in 2:2-5.

3. Judaism, Christianity and Polytheism have been rejected by Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted. The Millah / Religion

of Ibrahim, on him be peace, 2:135, which was followed by the Messenger, peace be on him and his family, was the

Shi'a / Sect of Nuh, on him be peace, 37:83, which is Islam, 3:19.

4. With in the ranks of the Muslims, there is an Ummah / people for whom the Qur'an has been revealed, 2:136, and

definitely, this Ummah does not include the converts to Islam whether from Judaism, Christianity or Paganism. This

Ummah is the pattern not only of beliefs but also of the acts of worship and everything related to Islam.

5. These are the believers mentioned in 2:285-286 and 22:77-78. They were chosen by Allah, the Glorified, the

Exalted. Ibrahim , on him be peace, was their father. They are the Witnesses for the people and the Messenger will

be a Witness for them.

Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, identified His chosen Servants as the Messenger, peace be upon him and his family,

and his purified ahlulbayt, on them be peace, which can be found in the traditions narrated by the Companions and

the Imams themselves.

Therefore, the alleged Muslims, companions or not, who did not follow the Ahlulbayt, on them be peace, were

Mushrikuun / Polytheists, according to the clear verses of the Qur'an.

To be continued.



Abu Jaiyana has tried his best to prove the proposition that it is polytheism to ask for help to anyone other than Allah,

the Glorified, the Exalted, in the Islamic jurisprudence.







He advanced as his proof verses which are either the general rule or the verses which are for the non-believers

ignoring the exception.

Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, as the Legislator, revealed the following verses containing or mandating the

permissibility of calling people other than Him for intercession.

The Qur'an says:

And blessed is He to Whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all between them: with Him is

the Knowledge of the Hour (of Judgment): and to Him shall ye be brought back

And those whom they invoke besides Allah have no power of intercession;-

only he who bears witness to the Truth, and they know (him).

If thou ask them, who created them, they will certainly say, Allah: How then are they deluded away (from the Truth)?

(Allah has knowledge) of the (Prophet's) cry, "O my Lord! Truly these are people who will not believe!" 43:85-88.

All the objections of Abu Jaiyana have been answered by the verses above.

Who can best explain the Qur'an except Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted.

To Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, belongs the dominion of the Heavens and the Earth.

He prohibited calling others besides Him for intercession but He permitted it for those who bear witness to the truth or

who confirm the truth.

Imam 'Ali confirmed the Truth while still a child and he was the epitome of belief and good deeds and the people

knew him very well. This is also true for the other Imams, peace be upon them all.

Abu Jaiyana will try to put some conditions on these verses, especially, 43:86, but the verses did not limit the

permissiblity of calling the people given permission to intercede when they were still alive in this World.

Why? Because Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, is the Creator of everything and to Him belongs the sovereignty over

His creation.

To be continued.



Abu Jaiyana should be honest enough to admit that he is not debating here as a representative of the Ahlus Sunnah.

He represents the Salafis who consider shirk the practice of asking for help or shafa'a from a dead pious Muslim.

He has focused his attention to verses prohibiting making du'a to the enemies of Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted,

forgetting the fact that it is the style of the Qur'an to reserve a certain virtue or perfection to Allah, the Glorified, the

Exalted, alone, then reject it for others and still confirm it for others by His permission.

The following verses are the basis of both the Ahlus Sunnah and the Shi'a in their belief for the permissibility of

making tawassul and asking shafa'a to the Messenger, peace be upon him and his family, the Imams, peace be upon

them, and other righteous and pious Muslims.







................Who is there can intercede in His presence except as He permitteth? He knoweth what (appeareth to His

creatures as) before or after or behind them......2:255

And say not of those who are slain in the way of Allah: "They are dead." Nay, they are living, though ye perceive (it)

not. 2:154.

We sent not a messenger, but to be obeyed, in accordance with the will of Allah. If they had only, when they were

unjust to themselves, come unto thee and asked Allah's forgiveness, and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for

them, they would have found Allah indeed Oft-returning, Most Merciful. 4:64.

O ye who believe! Do your duty to Allah, seek the means of approach unto Him, and strive with might and main in his

cause: that ye may prosper.

5:35

Say: "To Allah belongs exclusively (the right to grant) intercession: to Him belongs the dominion of the heavens and

the earth: In the End, it is to Him that ye shall be brought back." 39:44.

And those whom they invoke besides Allah have no power of intercession;- only he who bears witness to the Truth,

and they know (him). 43:86.

Rejecting these verses with unfounded excuses will make a Muslim kaafir / unbeliever.

To be continued.



The Qur'an perfectly demonstrated when asking or calling someone for intercession is permitted and not considered

Shirk by Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted.

In addition to 4:64 that tells the Muslims to ask forgiveness through the intercession of the Messenger, peace be

upon him and his family, which is not limited while he was still alive, the story of the brothers of Yusuf, on him be

peace, is given below:

They said: "O our father! ask for us forgiveness for our sins, for we were truly at fault."

He said: "Soon will I ask my Lord for forgiveness for you: for he is indeed Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." 12:98.

The narration below proves the permissibilty of calling someone for purposes of intercession. The basis of the

intercession of Abbas was his relationship to the Messenger, peace be upon him and his family.

باأ ، ب قعناأ اعاأ هأح أندابد ،ابد ب هأأ اعاأ ع قم قث ع ب أل اعا قعمعبن ،اع ح ،اع أبه اعا ع قم اعا ح ،و او عأ قم اعاأ قع

هد قم م ىقبد قأ ب أ ق قاعنعقد ابعبا اعا ع قعأع ق اعأ ب. ابد ىوأنعقبب ب ىباعق ب ىنعقوب ي ب ا أ وع ا و و .ب ع ب ا أ وع ا

Narrated Anas: Whenever drought threatened them, `Umar bin Al-Khattab, used to ask Al-Abbas bin `Abdul Muttalib

to invoke Allah for rain. He used to say, "O Allah! We used to ask our Prophet to invoke You for rain, and You would

bless us with rain, and now we ask his uncle to invoke You for rain. O Allah ! Bless us with rain."(1) And so it would

rain.

Reference: Sahih al-Bukhari 1010

In-book reference:Book 15, Hadith 5







In this presentation, I have proven from the Qur'an the following:

1. It is polytheism to follow people who were not guided unless they were guided by other people. 10:35.

2. It is polytheism to abandon the chosen servants of Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, in favor of other people. 28:68,

27:59.

3. The Qur'an permits calling people besides Allah for intercession if these people confirmed the truth and they know

the truth or the people know them. 43:86

4. The malicious assertion that the Shi'a of the 12 Imams, on them be peace, are practicing shirk by calling the

Imams for help or intercession is simply not true.

5. Denial of the validity or permissibilty of calling the Messenger, peace be upon him and his family, and the 12

Imams, peace be upon them, for intercession is disbelief in Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, and the Qur'an.

Alhamdulillaahi rabbil 'aalameen.

Allahommaa salli 'alaa Muhammad wa Aale Muhammad.


Abu Jaiyana CROSS EXAM.

Thank you Nass Abinal for your presentation.

I just want to make a comment on your ad hominem fallacy against me. You are accusing me of being a Salafi. Im not

a Salafi - As you can see, my arguments are all based on the Quran and the Sunnah which is really the aqeeda of the

Ahlul Sunnah.

I don’t understand WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE whether I am a salafi or deobandi, or Ahmadi or whatever –

I don’t see any relevance of any madhab or sect to the topic of the debate. It is CALLED POISONING THE WELL

FALLACY. It is not befitting for you to use such kind of fallacy especially that you are the best man of Iran here.

You can tell people that I am representing the GWAPINGS Sect - that would not help your arguments even an iota.

HERE ARE MY QUESTIONS:

1. In my presentation, I argued that there not a single ayah in the Quran which allows calling those who have passed

away for help. However, you cited an example from the Quran that some people ask help from someone yet it is not

shirk.

You cited Suah 4:64 in which the brothers of Yusof a.s. asked their father, Yaqoob, to pray to Allah to forgive them:

* When the brothers of Yusof. A.s. did this - was their father still living or had already passed away?

2. You also cited the Tawasul made by Umar to Al-Abbas r.a. and this happened after the Prophet had passed away -

we the Ahlul Sunnah 100% approved. Al Abbas r.a. here is STILL LIVING IN THIS WORLD AT that time.

* How does this tawasul prove that calling people who have passed away for help is permissible?

3. You cited the ayah which I already have explained in my presentation, Surah 2:154 in which Allah told the Muslims







that those who were slain in Jihad are still living. My question is:

* Are those martyrs still living in this world or are they living in Jannah?

Provide authentic hadith for your answer

4. You cited the ayah, Surah 5:35 which says “seek any means to approach unto Him”. We differ in the interpretation

to this. However Allah told us that if we differ we will refer it back to Allah and His Messenger, so my question is:

* Do you have any ayah or authentic hadith from the prophet’s Sunnah in which we are taught or instructed to call on

those who have passed away because it is one of the means to approach Allah?

5. The Ahlul Sunnah and the Shias both believe in the intercession (shafaat) that would be granted by Allah to

anyone He wills. The Prophet can intercede, as well as the martyrs, the Quran, Fasting, etc. – there is NO PROBLEM

at all. However, my question is:

*When would Allah grant the intercession to anyone he wills – is it in this world or is it in the hereafter?

Thank you.


Nass Abinal CROSS EXAM.

Thank you Nass Abinal for your presentation.

HERE ARE MY QUESTIONS:

1. In my presentation, I argued that there not a single ayah in the Quran which allows calling those who have passed

away for help. However, you cited an example from the Quran that some people ask help from someone yet it is not

shirk.

You cited Suah 4:64 in which the brothers of Yusof a.s. asked their father, Yaqoob, to pray to Allah to forgive them:


Answer:

4:64 pertains to Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him and his family, and the Muslims.

...If they had only, when they were unjust to themselves, come unto thee and asked Allah's forgiveness, and the

Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah indeed Oft-returning, Most Merciful.

4:64

This ayah is applicable today just as it was done during the time of the Messenger, peace be upon him and his family.

You can greet the Messenger, peace be upon him and his family, by saying As salaamu 'alayka Ya Rasulallaah or Ya

Muhammad. This is being done here in the Philippines and in Madina. We can call on the Messenger, peace be upon

him and his family, and seek his intercession for Allah's forgiveness of our sins. The prophet is one of the

intercessors in this world just as he will be an intercessor in the next life.

The case of Ya'cob and his sons is an example of an intercession of a prophet while he was present with his sons or

people.







2. You also cited the Tawasul made by Umar to Al-Abbas r.a. and this happened after the Prophet had passed away -

we the Ahlul Sunnah 100% approved. Al Abbas r.a. here is STILL LIVING IN THIS WORLD AT that time.


Answer:

In the narration, Umar invoked the name of Messenger, peace be upon him and his family, as the reason he made

tawassul to al Abbas, may Allah be pleased with him. That is, because of the nearness of the Messenger to Allah, the

Glorified, the Exalted, and Al Abbas was also near to the Messenger, peace be upon him and his family, the prayer

for rain was granted.

3. You cited the ayah which I already have explained in my presentation, Surah 2:154 in which Allah told the Muslims

that those who were slain in Jihad are still living. My question is:

* Are those martyrs still living in this world or are they living in Jannah?

Answer:

They are living in the intermediate realm or the Barzakh. Their life in the Barzakh is far superior to our way of life in

this World. That is why, we are not only prohibited from saying they are dead, we are also prohibited from thinking

they are dead.

Think not of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead. Nay, they live, finding their sustenance in the presence of

their Lord; 3:169.

So you cannot make as your alibi that they cannot be intercessors because they are dead. That is prohibited.

Provide authentic hadith for your answer

4. You cited the ayah, Surah 5:35 which says “seek any means to approach unto Him”. We differ in the interpretation

to this. However Allah told us that if we differ we will refer it back to Allah and His Messenger, so my question is:

* Do you have any ayah or authentic hadith from the prophet’s Sunnah in which we are taught or instructed to call on

those who have passed away because it is one of the means to approach Allah?

Answer:

Du'a Tawassul from the Imams, on them be peace, is the most authentic narration and du'a on how to approach

Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, through the Fourteen Infallibles / Ma'sumeen. Of course, your school of thought is

very much averse to the ways of the people favored or blessed by Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, both in worshiping

Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, and in asking for His help.

We are commanded in 5:35 to have taqwa / fear of Allah and fear of Allah is also an intercessor. In addition, we are

told to seek a means of approach to Him. There are many ways to approach Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, and

Du'a Tawassul is one of them.

5. The Ahlul Sunnah and the Shias both believe in the intercession (shafaat) that would be granted by Allah to

anyone He wills. The Prophet can intercede, as well as the martyrs, the Quran, Fasting, etc. – there is NO PROBLEM

at all. However, my question is:


Answer:

Intercession is either in the sphere of creation or sphere of legslation.

In creation, all intermediary causes are intercessors because they are placed between the Creator and the created.

In legislation, there are intercessors in this life and in the hereafter.

Intercessors in this life:

Everything that brings a man nearer to Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, and makes him eligible for Divine forgiveness.

1. Repentence;

Say: "O my Servants who have transgressed against their souls! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah: for Allah forgives

all sins: for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. 39;53

2. True faith;

O ye that believe! Fear Allah, and believe in His Messenger, and He will bestow on you a double portion of His

Mercy: He will provide for you a Light by which ye shall walk (straight in your path), and He will forgive you (your

past): for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. 57:28

3. Good deed;

To those who believe and do deeds of righteousness hath Allah promised forgiveness and a great reward. 5:9

4. The prophets;

.......If they had only, when they were unjust to themselves, come unto thee and asked Allah's forgiveness, and the

Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah indeed Oft-returning, Most Merciful 4:64

5. The Qur'an;

.........There hath come to you from Allah a (new) light and a perspicuous Book, -Wherewith Allah guideth all who

seek His good pleasure to ways of peace and safety, and leadeth them out of darkness, by His will, unto the light,-

guideth them to a path that is straight. 5:15-16

6. The Angels;

Those who sustain the Throne (of Allah) and those around it Sing Glory and Praise to their Lord; believe in Him; and

implore Forgiveness for those who believe: "Our Lord! Thy Reach is over all things, in Mercy and Knowledge.

Forgive, then, those who turn in Repentance, and follow Thy Path; and preserve them from the Penalty of the Blazing

Fire! 40:7

6. The Believers themselves;

......Blot out our sins, and grant us forgiveness....2:286

As for the intercessors in the hereafter, that is not within the scope of this debate.


Allaahommaa salli 'alaa Muhammad wa Aale Muhammad.

Shukranlillaah.


Nass Abinal Cross Examination

My questions are the following:

Since Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, is the Creator of whatever He pleases and He chooses, the people or the

Muslims have no right to choose, otherwise partners are attributed to Him, 28:68,

And considering that the purified Ahlulbayt, peace be upon them, were the family of the Messenger, peace be upon

him and his family, and at the same time, they were among Companions and not all Companions were family

members of the Messenger, peace be upon him and his family,

1. Are you not committing shirk or attributing partners to Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, by following the Companions

instead of the purified family of the Messenger, peace be upon him and his family, after him?

2. If you will say that you are following all the Companions including the purified Ahlulbayt, peace be upon them,

because they were all chosen by Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, have you not invented a manifest lie which is a

grave injustice / zulm?

Produce your proof that all the Companions, as you defined them, were chosen by Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted.

Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, says that Salaamun / Peace belongs to His Servants that He has chosen and He is

better than what the people have attributed to Him 27:59 and He made the Qur'an as inheritance of His chosen

Servants 35:32 and the Messenger, peace be upon him and his family, in the Hadith al Thaqalayn/ Two Weighty

Trusts, paired the Ahlulbayt, peace be upon them, with the Qur'an, as the sources of guidance,

3. Are you not committing shirk or attributing partners to Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, by propagating Islam as

taught by the Companions instead of the purified family / ahlulbayt, peace be upon them all?

Since following people who are not guided unless they are guided by others who are guided by Allah, the Glorified,

the Exalted, is Shirk / Polytheism,10:35, and most of the Companions were guided by the Messenger, peace be upon

him and his family,

4. Was it not waajib / obligatory for them to follow the Imams of guidance, peace be upon them all, after the

Messenger, peace be upon him and his family?

5. Will you still hold the belief that the followers of the 12 Imams, peace be upon them, are mushrikuun after you have

known their arguments?

May Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, guide you to the path of the blessed and purified Ahlulbayt, peace be upon

them.


Abu Jaiyana Thank you Nass Abinal for your Questions:

Here are the answers to your questions, respectively:













#1.

NO, because following the companions has no connection whatsoever about shirk.

I have given the linguistic definition of shirk in my presentation, as well as the meaning of shirk in Islamic terminology

(shar’ee meaning).

An act is considered shirk if it violates the principles of Tawheed because the antithesis of Tawheed is Shirk.

Following the sahaba has nothing to do with Tawheed or any violation of its principles either in Rubbobiyyah,

Ulohiyya, and Asma’wa sifat.

So I really don’t understand how following the sahaba would constitute an act of shirk.

Your problem is you are not defining your terminology. Shirk is an Arabic word and it has clear meaning. Read the

definition of shirk as well as the shar’ee meaning of it which I discussed in my presentation, and you will find out that

you are barking on a wrong tree so to speak.

Moreover, you need to be reminded that the purified Ahlulbayt that you are talking about such Ali, Fatima, Hasan, and

Husayn r.anhum were all Sahaba by necessity and by definition.

The word Sahaba is the plural form of Sahabi. Those who saw, talked, accompanied the Prophet s.a.w. and died as

Muslims are considered Sahaba – this definition includes Ali, Fatima, Hasan, and Husayn r.anhum

So if you are saying that following the Sahaba is shirk, then you are committing shirk because those people were by

themselves Sahaba.

Furthermore, the purified Ahlulbayt of the Prophet includes primarily the wives of the Prophet as clearly mentioned in

the Quran Surah 3:28-34. The Prophet included Ali Fatima, Hasan and Husayn r.anhum in this regard.

Therefore it is you shias who are not following the purified members of the Ahlulbayt because you defame, abuse and

hate the wives of Prophet Muhammad even though Allah said that they are from the Ahlulbayt.

Continue next post.


Abu Jaiyana #2.

First of all, I really don’t understand how this question has any sort of relevance to the topic of the debate as well as

the presentation I presented. I want to alert the readers of this debate to take notice of this fallacy called RED-

HERRINGS.

Red Herring: An irrelevant distraction, attempting to mislead an audience by bringing up an unrelated but usually

emotionally loaded issue.

As for the proof that the companions of Prophet Muhammad were chosen by Allah:

Surah 9:100

'And the first forerunners [in the faith] among the Muhajireen and the Ansar and those who followed them with good

conduct – Allah is pleased with them and they are pleased with Him, and He has prepared for them gardens beneath

which rivers flow, wherein they will abide forever. That is the great attainment.'







The Muhajireen and the Ansar were Sahaba of the Prophet s.a.w.

Surah 48: 29.

Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and THOSE WITH HIM ARE FIRM OF HEART against the unbelievers,

compassionate among themselves; you will see them bowing down, prostrating themselves, seeking grace from Allah

and pleasure; their marks are in their faces because of the effect of prostration; that is their description in the Taurat

and their description in the Injeel; like as seed-produce that puts forth its sprout, then strengthens it, so it becomes

stout and stands firmly on its stem, delighting the sowers that He may enrage the unbelievers on account of them;

Allah has promised those among them who believe and do good, forgiveness and a great reward.

It is beyond reasonable doubt that those who are with the Prophet were the Sahaba, and Allah himself testified on the

loftiness of their faith.

Some of the numerous testimonies of the Prophet s.a.w. about his Sahaba:

1. Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 57, Number 3:

Narrated Abdullah:

The Prophet said, "The best people are those living in my generation, and then those who will follow them, and then

those who will follow the latter.

2. Al-Tirmidhi by Ahmad with three good chains in his Musnad, al-Bukhari in his Tarikh, Al-Suyuti declared it hasan in

his Jami` al-Saghir #1442.

Narrated from Abdallah ibn Mughaffal:

The Prophet said: “Allah, Allah! Fear Him with regard to my Sahabah! Do not make them targets after me! Whoever

loves them loves them with his love for me; and whoever hates them hates them with his hatred for me. Whoever

bears enmity for them, bears enmity for me; and whoever bears enmity for me, bears enmity for Allah. Whoever

bears enmity for Allah is about to perish!”

3. Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 57, Number 22

Narrated Abu Said:

The Prophet said, "Do not abuse my companions for if any one of you spent gold equal to Uhud (in Allah's Cause) it

would not be equal to a Mud or even a half Mud spent by one of them."

You shia rafida are guilty of what Allah and His Prophet said about the Sahaba.


Abu Jaiyana #3.

Again, this is another RED-HERRING Fallacy about the topic of this debate.

How is following the teachings of the Sahaba relevant to asking help from anyone other than Allah in supplications

???

How does this question of Nass Abinal help him in any way, shape, or form negate that calling anyone other than

Allah in supplication is not shirk ???

Anyway, I will answer this irrelevant question.

The answer again is BIG NO! because following the teachings of the Sahaba has nothing to do with the issues of







Tawheed. No Sahaba ever taught that we should believe in more than one God, or that we should call anyone for

help in our supplication, or that we will give the names or the attributes of Allah to any of Allah’s creation.

Therefore, following the teachings of the Sahaba can never be shirk, instead following the Sahaba would maintain

your faith in Tawheed.

Once again, define the word shirk Nass Abinal – what is shirk in Arabic and what is its shar’ee meaning?


Abu Jaiyana #4

You should have disambiguated your term Nass Abinal in your 4th question. Who is the “them” there?

If you mean “them” the Sahaba, then that would be big foolishness! It is so because how on earth logical to follow the

teachings of people who are not born yet???

Your Imams were not born yet during the time of the Sahaba, so how could the Sahaba follow them – this is indeed a

very ludicrous idea, with all due respect.

If you mean, “Imams” Ali, Hasan, and Husayn r.anhum because they were already born during the time of the

Sahaba, then the answer is still BIG NO because those people are themselves, Sahaba.

Moreover, it is illogical for the Sahaba to follow Ali, Hasan, and Husayn r.anhum because aside from they were all

Sahaba, the Prophet s.a.w. was with them, and they were the eye-witnesses to the revelation of the Quran and how

the Prophet explained the Quran and practiced it.

As matter of fact, it was the Sahaba who transmitted the Quran and the Sunnah of the Prophet s.a.w. to us, not your

Imams.

Furthermore, your alleged 12th Imam is Mr. BOGUS because his existence is highly speculative. Even shias don’t

have any instructions from your 12th Imam. So who on earth would agree that the Sahaba who existed long before

your Imams could follow the teachings of the Imam.

Your Imam Ali r.a. narrated in Sahih Muslim and in other hadiths which are rated authentic that the Prophet made Mut

‘ah Haram till the Day of Resurrection, but you don’t follow it, you keep on enjoying sex with Mut’ah until now, and

your Ayatollahs such as Khominie, and others said that you can engage in sex with mut’ah with countless prostitutes.

So which teachings of the Imams you want us to follow when you yourselves don’t follow the teachings of your first

Imam, Ali r.a.?

Lastly, we are challenging you to produce any authentic record of the teachings of the Imams – we want to follow it,

where is it written now, in Al Kafi of Kulayni which is a BOOK FULL OF SHIRK, or in Nahjul Balagha a book with NO

ISNAD whatsoever???

See how your irrelevant question has given you a mountain of problem?


Abu Jaiyana #5

BIG, BIG YES!!! And CERTAINLY YES!!! You and your ilk who call anyone other than Allah in your supplication are

all MUSHRIKS (polytheists) IN THE LITERAL MEANING OF THE WORD!













Your questions here, aside from mostly irrelevant, don’t really help you or negate that you are associating partners to

Allah in your worship because all acts of worship such as Du’a or supplications should only be addressed/directed to

Allah alone. However, in your Duá, instead of addressing them to Allah alone, you address them to Ali, or Husayn or

any of your Imams who are all SLAVES of Allah –

Therefore, I conclude with full conviction and certainty that YOU AND YOUR ILK ARE ALL MUSRIKS BEYOND

REASONABLE DOUBT.

Thank you.


Abu Jaiyana REBUTTAL

In my presentation, I did give the definition and Islamic meaning of Shirk....See More


Abu Jaiyana I also want to mention here is the STRAWMAN FALLACY (false attribution) of Nass Abinal to us Ahlul

Sunnah that we abandon the Ahlulbayt – that is a big LIE folks that the people of mut’ah and the people of taqiya are

propagating.

As a matter of fact, we follow ALL THE MEMBERS of the Ahlulbayt WITHOUT ANY DISCRIMINATION to any one of

them. We love that Ahlulbayt such as the wives of the Prophet, the family of Ali, the Family of Aqeel, the Family of

Jaafar and so on.

On the contrary, the Rafidas, such as Nass Abinal and his ilk, who claim to be the followers of Ahlulbayt ONLY

FOLLOW A SELECTED FEW. They ABUSE the wives of the Prophet, the don’t care about the families of Aqeel,

Jaafar and so on.

What is worst than worst is that they call a member of the Ahlulbayt, Jaafar ibn Al Askri, a big LIAR because he

testified that his brother Hassan Al Askari, the shias’11th Imam has no son – there is no such thing as 12th Imam.

So the Shias call him a LIAR, and they believe on the theory of a man who is not from the Ahlulbayt named Uthman

bin Said or Said bin Uthman that the son of Hasan al Askari is hiding in a tunnel and he knows who are those people

who don’t give khums (zakat for the imam) – this made their 12th Imam a Mr. BOGUS!!!

So you see, how the shias are giving us the FALSE IMPRESSION that they follow the Ahlulbayt and FALSELY

ACCUSE the Ahlul sunnah to be not followers of the Ahlulbayt.

We follow and love the Ahlulbayt but we don’t accept anything that is falsely attributed to them. We have the

authentic narrations of Ali, Fatima, Hasan, Husayn, Zainal Abideen, Imam Jafar As-Sadiq, ect peace be upon them

all, and we follow them wholeheartedly.

We reject hadiths about the Prophet if they are not authentic, but does that mean we don’t love the Prophet s.a.w.? I

don’t think so, and only a STUPID person who is SEVERELY INTOXICATED with TAQIYA and MUT’AH thinks that

way.

Shias utterly reject the hadiths of Ali r.a. in Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim – does that mean that they don’t love Ali

anymore???

So the hypocrisy and taqiya of the shias here are badly exposed.















Abu Jaiyana Now, we go back to the main issue of the debate.

Nass Abinal cited examples from the Quran and from the Sunnah as evidence for the permissibility of calling anyone

other than Allah for help in Du’a but it turns out that his supposed evidences are actually evidences against his claim.

He cited 12:98 in which the Brothers of Prophet Yusof ask their father to ask for forgiveness for them.

Folks, the ayah is very clear to everyone to understand that the Father of the Yusof and his brothers were STILL Alive

at that time, and he was still living with them.

In fact, the verse even quoted the response of their father, who was Prophet Qaqoob, to them.

THEY SAID: "O OUR FATHER! ASK FOR US FORGIVENESS FOR OUR SINS, FOR WE WERE TRULY AT

FAULT."

HE SAID: "SOON WILL I ASK MY LORD FOR FORGIVENESS FOR YOU: FOR HE IS INDEED OFT-FORGIVING,

MOST MERCIFUL."

Nass Abinal evaded the simple question I asked.


The question is answerable by yes or no ( yes, their father was still living at that time, or no, their father had already

passed away that time).

See the answer of Nass Abinal to my question, it is 1 billion light years away from being relevant.

See how the Quran exposes the misguidance of the shia. Their so-called evidence from the Quran are actually clear

refutations for them.


Abu Jaiyana He also cited a hadith from Sahih Al Bukhari in which Umar r.a. made Tawasul with the uncle of the

Prophet Al Abbas r.a.

Read what Umar r.a. said:

He used to say, "O Allah! We used to ask our Prophet to invoke You for rain, and You would bless us with rain, and

now we ask his uncle to invoke You for rain. O Allah ! Bless us with rain." And so it would rain.

He said that they used to ask the Prophet to invoke rain before. That was when the Prophet was still alive. During the

Caliphate of Umar r.a. the Prophet has already died.

Since the Prophet has already passed away, Umar r.a. made the Tawasul with the Prophet’s uncle Al Abbas because

Al Abbas is still living.

Think about this folks, had it been persmissible to make tawasul with those who already passed away, Umar would

have asked the Prophet instead of Al Abbas because there is no doubt that the Prophet is far more better than Al

Abbas r.a.
















Nass Abinal is not reading the text of the hadith properly, I supposed.

Nass Abinal also EVADED my question about the hadith he cited regarding Umar making tawasul with Al Abbas who

was still living at that time.


See again the answer of Nass Abinal to my question, it is 1 billion light years away from being relevant.

So once again, the shias’supposed evidence for the permissibility of their SHIRK is EXPOSED!


Abu Jaiyana Nass Abinal cited 2:154 in which Allah told the Muslims that those who were slain in Jihad are still

living. I already have explained that living here means living in Jannah, not living in this world. I also have warned the

readers about the trick of the shia in this verse

“They will play on you on the word “dead” – they would say that their saints are not “dead” therefore it is okay to ask

help from them.”

21: 35. Every soul must taste of death

Even Prophet Muhammad would die and has died.

39:29 Verily, you (O Muhammad SAW) will die and verily, they (too) will die.

Nass Abinal admitted that the verse means that they are not living in this world but in BARZAKH, thank you! And to

be more specific, they are living in Jannah according to many tafsirs and hadith of the Prophet s.a.w.

Therefore, that verse can never be an evidence for the permissibility of calling someone other than Allah for help in

supplications.


Abu Jaiyana Another verse used by Nass Abinal is Surah 5:35 which says “seek any means to approach unto Him”

I asked Nass Abinal to produce any authentic practice or instruction from the Prophet that seeking any means to

approach Allah is by asking help from someone in Du’a – that’s all.

Nass Abinal cant produce any, not one evidence from the Sunnah of the Prophet in which the Prophet asked help

from other than Allah in his supplications, or that the Prophet taught or instructed any of his companions, not even

Abubakr, Umar, Uthman, or Ali r.anhum.

On the contrary, all supplications taught by the Prophet were all calling Allah alone, and no one else. Example:

The Prophet's Recommendation Allah bless and greet him - to Ibn `Abbas in Which He Describes the Habits A

Believer Must Have With Allah Almighty

Al-Tirmidhi narrated from Ibn `Abbas - Allah be well-pleased with both of them! - that he said:

"I was [riding] behind the Prophet one day and he said to me:

'O my boy! I shall teach you certain words. Keep Allah [with you], and He shall keep you. Keep Allah [with you], and

you shall find Him facing you. IF YOU ASK FOR SOMETHING, ASK ALLAH. IF YOU SEEK HELP, SEEK IT FROM



















ALLAH. Know with certainty that if the entire Community gather together to support you, THEY CAN BENEFIT YOU

NOTHING except in WHAT ALLAH HAS FOREORDAINED FOR YOU; and if they gather together in order to harm

you, THEY CAN HARM YOU IN NOTHING except in what Allah HAS FOREORDAINED AGAINST YOU. The quills

have been raised and the records are dry.'"

Why would any SANE Muslim supplicate to someone other than Allah when Allah said in the Quran:

2:186. And when MY SERVANTS ask you concerning Me, then surely I am very near; I ANSWER THE PRAYER OF

THE SUPPLIANT WHEN HE CALLS ON ME, so they should answer My call and believe in Me that they may walk in

the right way.

So if Allah is very near, and he said that he would answer our supplications when we make du’a to Him, and He is the

All-hearer and the All-knowing, why should we even think of calling someone instead of Allah in our du’a???

Are those whom we would call know and understand better than Allah – this is total stupidity indeed. Only people who

are ignorant about the oneness of Allah in worship and in His names and attributes do this absolutely illogical form of

worship.


Abu Jaiyana I asked Nass Abinal about when would Allah grant the intercession –

The Prophet can intercede, as well as the martyrs, the Quran, Fasting, etc. – there is NO PROBLEM at all. However,

my question is:


Im asking, WHEN, but Nass Abinal is again, gave a very vague and irrelevant answer.

The correct answer folks is that Allah will grant the power of intercession to the Prophet, martyrs, Quran, etc, ON THE

DAY OF JUDGEMENT – Not in this world.

2: 48. Then guard yourselves against a Day (of Judgment) when one soul shall not avail another nor shall

intercession be accepted for her, nor shall compensation be taken from her, nor shall anyone be helped (from

outside).

2:254. O ye who believe! Spend out of (the bounties) We have provided for you, before the DAY comes when no

bargaining (will avail), nor friendship nor INTERCESSION. Those who reject Faith they are the wrong-doers.

From the Sunnah, Sahih Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 3 and other hadiths also say that intercession would be

granted on the Day of Judgment.

Therefore Allah would only allow people to intercede ON THE DAY OF JUDGMENT, not in this world Nass Abinal.

What is the point here? The point here is that when anyone calls help from other than Allah in his/her supplication

such as those who have passed away like Ali or Husayn, they CAN NEVER INTERCEDE for them here in this world,

therefore their supplication is totally USELESS, aside from being an act of Shirk.


Abu Jaiyana Summary:

1. All the ayat and hadiths used by Nass Abinal to support the permissibility of calling for help in Du’a from anyone














other than Allah are DEFINITELY REFUTED, and at the same time those ayat and hadiths are in support for the

IMPERMISSIBILITY of calling for help in Du’a from anyone other than Allah.

2. I also argued here that Nass Abinal DID NOT GIVE US THE LINGUISTIC DEFINITION OF SHIRK AS WELL AS

ITS SHAR’EE MEANING; he just kept on saying this and that is shirk without defining the word shirk.

3. Nass Abinal also FAILED TO PROVIDE ANY EVIDENCE FROM THE SUNNAH of Prophet Muhammad which

teaches us to call for help in from anyone other than Allah in our supplications. On the contrary, clear and numerous

evidences from the Sunnah of the Prophet which teach us that we should only call help from Allah in our prayer

and/or supplications.

4. Nass Abinal also DIDN’T SHOW US ANY AUTHENTIC EVIDENCE FROM ALI OR HUSAYN R.A TEACHING

THEM TO CALL ON THOSE WHO PASSED AWAY FOR HELP IN THEIR DU’A – this is purely shia innovated form

of worship.

5. Nass Abinal Also did failed to give us ANY AUTHENTIC EVIDENCE FROM THE SUNNAH THAT IT IS ALLOWED

TO CALL FOR HELP FROM THOSE WHO ALREADY HAVE PASSED AWAY.

– what he has given us so far are asking help from those who are still living in this world.

My arguments in my presentation still stand and untouched.

A. The linguistic and Sharée meaning of shirk means ascribing a partner or rival to Allaah in Lordship (ruboobiyyah),

WORSHIP (Ibadah) or in His names and attributes.

B. Duá (supplication) in Islam is an ACT OF WORSHIP according to the Quran and the Sunnah.

C. Acts of worship should only be addressed/directed to Allah ALONE.

D. Therefore, calling Ali or Husayn who already have passed away instead of or alongside with Allah in supplication is

Shirk.

Thank you.


Nass Abinal My rebuttal

In the Name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful

Say: This is my way: I call to Allah, I and those who follow me being certain, and glory be to Allah, and I am not one

of the polytheists. 12:108

When Abu Jaiyana said he has refuted all the Qur'anic verses and the Sunnah I have produced to support my

assertions, it only means he denied or disbelieved these verses.

He tried, albeit it was in vain, to prove that calling or making du'a to the Imams, peace be upon them, to seek their

shafa'a / intercession before Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, is shirk and that the Shi'a / Followers of the Imams,

peace be upon them, are Mushrikuun / Polytheists.

He underpinned his assertion on the following verses:

1. Worship Allah and join none with Him in worship,.... 4:36.







Comment:

This verse is not applicable to the followers of the Ahlulbayt, peace be upon them, because We worship Allah, the

Glorified, the Exalted, by following the Right Path of worshiping Him which is the Path of His blessed Servants, the

Messenger, peace be upon him and his family, and the Imams, peace be upon them. We have not joined anyone to

Him in our worship.

2. And of mankind are some who take (for worship) others besides Allah as rivals (to Allah). They love them as they

love Allah. But those who believe, love Allah more (than anything else)....2:165

This is also the result of following people not favored or blessed by Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, with guidance,

purity, knowledge, faith. When the former Mushrikuun became the role models and the purified ones were murdered

one after the other and their teachings were hidden from the people, this verse is fulfilled against the people.

He also quoted the following verses in support of his claim:

51: 56 "And I created not the Jinns and men except that they should worship Me (Alone)."

1: 5. Thee do we serve and Thee do we beseech for help. (Shakir)

1: 5. Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek. (Yusuf Ali)

1: 5. Thee (alone) we worship; Thee (alone) we ask for help. (Pickthal)

The above verses have been sufficiently addressed in the explanation of 2:165 and 4:36.

46:5. And who is in greater error than he who calls besides Allah upon those that will not answer him till the day of

resurrection and they are heedless of their call?

10:106. And DO NOT CALL BESIDES Allah on that which can neither benefit you nor harm you, for if you do then

surely you will in that case be of the unjust.

10:107. And if Allah should afflict you with harm, then there is none to remove it but He; and if He intends good to you

there is none to repel His grace; He brings it to whom He pleases of His servants; and He is the Forgiving, the

Merciful

7:194. Lo! those on whom ye call beside Allah are SLAVES LIKE UNTO YOU. Call on them now, and let them

answer you, if ye are truthful!

The above verses do not apply to the Muslims who used to seek the intercession of the Messenger, peace be upon

him, the Imams, peace be upon them, and other awliyaa Allaah / Friends of Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted.

Yes, the Qur'an also says:

And your Lord said: "Invoke Me, [i.e. believe in My Oneness (Islamic Monotheism)] (and ask Me for anything) I will

respond to your (invocation). Verily! .....40:60

Du'a is a form of worship.

However, this and the other verses did not abrogate nor contradict the verses I have relied upon to prove my

opposition to the assertion of Abu Jaiyana.

These verses are the following:

1. We sent no Messenger, but to be obeyed by Allah's Leave. If they (hypocrites), when they had been unjust to

themselves, had come to you (Muhammad SAW) and begged Allah's Forgiveness, and the Messenger had begged

forgiveness for them: indeed, they would have found Allah All-Forgiving (One Who accepts repentance), Most

Merciful.

(English - Mohsin Khan) 4:64

And those whom they invoke instead of Him have no power of intercession; except those who bear witness to the

truth (i.e. believed in the Oneness of Allah, and obeyed His Orders), and they know (the facts about the Oneness of

Allah).43:86

In 4:64, the hypocrites were disinclined to come to the Messenger, peace be upon him and his family, to seek his

intercession for the forgiveness of their sins. Obviously, they will not call on the Messenger, peace be upon him and

his family, after his death as this is something they did not do while he was still alive. Abu Jaiyana may be following

the footsteps of the hypocriites on this matter.

In 43:86, We are being told that there are idols or people besides Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, who are being

called upon for intercession but these idols or people have no such power except those who bear witness to the truth

and they know.

This means that calling the people who belong to the exception for their intercession is not prohibited, much less

shirk.

Intercession after Allah's permission is a basic Islamic teaching.

...............Who is he that can intercede with Him except with His Permission?................ [This Verse 2:255 is called

Ayat-ul-Kursi.]

It is now doubly clear that those who bear witness to the truth and who know the truth 43:86 are given permission to

intercede and they can be called upon and this is also a worship of Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted. Unlike those who

have no power of intercession who are being called upon by the disbelievers which made them polytheists.

As already mentioned, the conclusion of Abu Jaiyana that the Shi'a / Followers of the 12 Imams, peace be upon them

all, are polytheists because they call on dead persons is based on wrong premises and therefore without any merit at

all.

The verses 4:64, 43:86 and 2:255 do not contain provisos limiting their validity or application to intercessors who are

alive in this World and not dead. Any attempt to put conditions to these verses is tampering with the sacred text

condemned by Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted.

To be continued.


Nass Abinal Continuation of my rebuttal.

In my presentation and cross examination, I have proven that the proposition of Abu Jaiyana does not hold water at

all. He accuses the monotheists of polytheism forgetting his actual status as among the Mushrikuun / Polytheists.

He brushed aside the Qur'anic verses, 10:35, 27:59 and 28:68, declaring that those who do not follow the guided and

chosens ones of Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, are actually polytheists.

To Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, belongs both the al wilayah at takwiniyyah / authority over creation and al wilayah

tashri'iyyah / authority over legislation.







Before I demonstrate these two authorities from the Qur'an, we must state on record that Islam is a way of life, a

deen, brought by the Messengers of Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, and led by the Imams, peace be upon them,

after the Messenger, peace be upon him and his family.

This is not a religion of the so-called Sahaabat, a word not found in the Qur'an and Qamus.

I would like to ask Abu Jaiyana where did he get the plural Sahaabat and singular Sahaabi? Is it in the Qur'an or

Sunnah or Qamus?

In the Qur'an, these two wilayah are put one after the other to emphasize the Lordship and Godhead of Allah, the

Glorified, the Exalted.

Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, reminds the people of His authority over creation to declare His authority over

legislation. In other verses, He declared His authority over legislation and reminds the people of His authority over

creation. This is were Shirk / Polytheism comes in. Those who do not agree to the authority of Allah, the Glorified, the

Exalted, to choose are mushrikuun / polytheists.

Why?

Because they believe that He is the only Creator but they do not believe that He is the only Legislator or the One Who

chooses.

Examples:

Say: "Is there of your (Allah's so-called) partners one that originates the creation and then repeats it?" Say: "Allah

originates the creation and then He repeats it. Then how are you deluded away (from the truth)?"10:34

Say: "Is there of your (Allah's so-called) partners one that guides to the truth?" Say: "It is Allah Who guides to the

truth. Is then He, Who gives guidance to the truth, more worthy to be followed, or he who finds not guidance (himself)

unless he is guided? Then, what is the matter with you? How judge you?10:35

Say (O Muhammad SAW): "Praise and thanks be to Allah, and peace be on His slaves whom He has chosen (for His

Message)! Is Allah better, or (all) that you ascribe as partners (to Him)?" (Of course, Allah is Better). 27:59

Is not He (better than your gods) Who created the heavens and the earth, and sends down for you water (rain) from

the sky, whereby We cause to grow wonderful gardens full of beauty and delight? It is not in your ability to cause the

growth of their trees. Is there any ilah (god) with Allah? Nay, but they are a people who ascribe equals (to Him)! 27:60

To be continued.


Nass Abinal Continuation of my rebuttal

And your Lord creates whatsoever He wills and chooses, no choice have they (in any matter). Glorified be Allah, and

exalted above all that they associate as partners (with Him).


And your Lord knows what their breasts conceal, and what they reveal.


And He is Allah; La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He). His is all praise, in the first (i.e. in







this world) and in the last (i.e. in the Hereafter). And for Him is the Decision, and to Him shall you (all) be returned.


Say (O Muhammad SAW): "Tell me! If Allah made night continuous for you till the Day of Resurrection, who is an ilah

(a god) besides Allah who could bring you light? Will you not then hear?"


Those who think that they are Monotheists because they believe that Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, is the Creator

but disagree with His legislation are the Mushrikuun. They have destroyed their Tawheed al Uluhiyya and Tawheed

ar Rububiyya.

In view of the above verses, how could the more than 140,000 Ashaabun / Companions be the guides to the Truth

when most of them needed the guided of the Messenger, peace be upon him and his family, and Imam 'Ali, on him be

peace, the chosen ones of Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, among them?

Musa, on him be peace, was given the Tawrat and the 12 Naqeeba / A'imma / Ummah then some of his people

believed while some of them disbelieved.

'Eesa, on him be peace, was given the Injeel and the Hawariyuun and some of his people believed while some of

them disbelieved.

Muhammad, peace be upon him and his family, was given the Qur'an and the 12 Khulafaa / A'imma / Khayra Ummah

/ Ummah Wasatan / Ummah Muslimatan / Ahlulbayt and some of his people believed while some of them

disbelieved.

In summary:

1. The Shi'ah, in making du'a or in calling the Messenger, peace be upon him and his family, and the Imams, peace

be upon them, to seek their intercession with Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, are not Mushrikuun. This is permitted

by the Islamic Law.

2. Abu Jaiyana and his ilks, by lumping the purified Ahlulbayt, peace be upon them, with all the converts to Islam,

failed to believe in the authority of Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, to choose, Who chose the family of the

Messenger, peace be upon him and his family, and therefore they are committing shirk or polytheism.

3. I have given the Qur'anic verses on the different intercessors in this life but Abu Jaiyana just swept them under the

rag of his pride and proudly declared that intercession will only happen in the hereafter or on the day of judgment.

4. Abu Jaiyana is telling us the because the 12 Disciples of 'Eesa, peace be on him, were his Companions, by

following them, the people have followed all his Companions who must be the best of people after him which is totally

against the narrations of the Qur'an and the Sunnah.

5. In the same manner, since the 12 Imams / Naqeeb / Ummah for the Bani Israel were among the Ashaab /

Companions of Musa, on him be peace, those who followed them have followed the Companions of Musa, on him be

peace.

6. Any narration that comes from the Imams, on them be peace, are disbelieved outright because Bukhari or Muslim

did not write them thereby casting aside the traditions of the two weighty trusts / hadith al thaqalayn and the tradition

of the ark / hadith as safiina of Nuh, on him be peace, which can be found in so many books of the Ahlus Sunnah wal

Jama'ah.

This is a strange presentation that defies common sense and logic.

Salaamun 'alaykum wa rahmatollaahi wa barakaatoh.


Nass Abinal ...needed the guidance...


Abu Jaiyana Sorry for the delay. I have just finished editing our updated Revenue Code.

Like · Reply · Yesterday at 7:30am

Abu Jaiyana CONCLUSION:

I would like to make a short rebuttal to the argument/evidences added by Nass Abinal.

Nass Abinal distorted the meaning of the ayah 40:60 just to give a LOOPHOLE to their polytheistic practice of asking

help from those who have passed away.

This is what Nass Abinal has posted:

And your Lord said: "Invoke Me, [i.e. believe in My Oneness (Islamic Monotheism)] (and ask Me for anything) I will

respond to your (invocation). Verily! .....40:60

You see how the rafida distort the meaning of the Quran. INVOKE means to ask and NOT to believe. The meaning of

the word “invoke” is so obvious in the context of the ayah. If you remove the addition of Nass Abinal in the

parentheses, Nass Abinal’s argument becomes OUT OF ORDER:

"Invoke Me I will respond to your invocation” The Arabic text is very clear “ ع أ نع ي و اع أ “ قلع

And the verse continues… “but those who are too arrogant to serve Me will surely find themselves in Hell - in

humiliation!"

So the verse is NOT TALKING about believing in the Oneness of Allah. It is talking about CALLING ALLAH in our

prayers or supplications.

Like · Reply · 3 · Yesterday at 7:36am

Abu Jaiyana Nass Abinal also quoted 43:86 that those who bear witness to the truth knowingly can intercede. Yes,

some people may be granted by Allah the power to intercede, and this is not limited to the Ahlulbayt as the verse

says.

I have affirmed this in my rebuttal, and I already have provided the reference of the ayat and hadiths which say that

the intercession of the Prophet s.a.w. would be granted by Allah on the DAY OF JUDGMENT. Surah 2: 48, 2:254,

Sahih Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 3

The point is, does this POWER OF INTERCESSION EVER MEANT THAT WE CAN CALL, INVOKE, ASK FOR

HELP IN OUR PRAYESR OR SUPPLICATIONS FROM PEOPLE WHO ALREADY HAVE PASSED AWAY???


























The clear answer in NO, and there is NO EVIDENCE, not even one authentic evidence from the Sunnah, let alone

from the Quran, to support it. All ayat, and hadiths cited by Nass Abinal in support of their polytheistic prayer is all

about asking help, tawasul, from a person who is still living in this world, NOT from those who have passed away.


Abu Jaiyana 1. DID NASS ABINAL EVER PROVIDE UNAMBIGUOUS AYAT FROM THE QURAN THAT WE CAN

CALL FOR HELP OTHER THAN ALLAH IN OUR PRAYERS OR SUPPLICATIONS??

The answer is BIG NO – he presented to us are stories of previous nations asking help of a person who was STILL

LIVING IN THIS WORLD at that time such as in the case of Prophet Yaqoob and his children.

2. DID NASS ABINAL EVER PROVIDE UNAMBIGUOUS EVIDENCE FROM THE SUNNAH THAT WE CAN CALL

FOR HELP OTHER THAN ALLAH IN OUR PRAYERS OR SUPPLICATIONS??

The answer is BIG NO – he presented to us the story of Caliph Umar asking help, making tawasul with Al Abbas who

was STILL LIVING IN THIS WORLD at that time.


Abu Jaiyana 3. DO WE HAVE EVIDENCES FROM THE QURAN THAT TEACHES US TO INVOKE ALLAH ALONE

IN OUR PRAYERS OR SUPPLICATION?

The answer is BIG YES – 1: 5. األأ ع دبأ دب اع Thee (alone) we worship; Thee (alone) we ask for help. (Pickthal) يدب

2:186. And when MY SERVANTS ask you concerning Me, then surely I am very near; I ANSWER THE PRAYER OF

THE SUPPLIANT WHEN HE CALLS ON ME, so they should answer My call and believe in Me that they may walk in

the right way.

4. DO WE HAVE EVIDENCES FROM THE SUNNAH THAT TEACHES US TO INVOKE ALLAH ALONE IN OUR

PRAYERS OR SUPPLICATION?

The answer is BIG YES –

Ibn `Abbas r.a. said:

"I was [riding] behind the Prophet one day and he said to me:

'O my boy! ….. IF YOU ASK FOR SOMETHING, ASK ALLAH. IF YOU SEEK HELP, SEEK IT FROM ALLAH. Know

with certainty that if the entire Community gather together to support you, THEY CAN BENEFIT YOU NOTHING

except in WHAT ALLAH HAS FOREORDAINED FOR YOU; and if they gather together in order to harm you, THEY

CAN HARM YOU IN NOTHING except in what Allah HAS FOREORDAINED AGAINST YOU….


Abu Jaiyana 5. IS ASKING HELP FROM SOMEONE FOR HELP IN OUR PRAYERS OR INVOCATION SHIRK?

The answer is BIG YES!

This argument still stands:

1. Shirk means ascribing a partner or rival to Allaah in Lordship (ruboobiyyah), WORSHIP (Ibadah) or in His names

and attributes.



















2. Acts of worship should be addressed/directed to Allah alone (4: 36. And serve Allah and do not associate anything

with Him)

3. Prayers or supplications are acts of worship (The Prophet (ملسو هيلع هللا ىلص) said : Supplication (du'a') is itself the worship. ")

4. Therefore, asking help from anyone for help in our prayers or invocation 100% SHIRK IN WORSHIP (uluhiya).

May Allah protect us from the shia, and from any their polytheistic beliefs and practices.

Jazakallaho khair.


Nass Abinal This is my conclusion for this debate.

In the Name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful

The Qur'an says:

And if your Lord had pleased, surely all those who are in the earth would have believed, all of them; will you then

force men till they become believers? 10:99

And it is not for a soul to believe except by Allah's permission; and He casts uncleanness on those who will not

understand. 10:100

It is never our intention to compel Abu Jaiyana or anyone to agree with us and believe in our arguments.

Be that as it may, we need to endeavor to make our brothers and sisters in Islam understand our Islamic views.

The clear examples of how the Qur'an deals with shafa'a / intercession are the knowledge of the Unseen, Kingdom

and Guardianship.

In several verses the knowledge of the unseen belongs to Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, alone. But in other verses,

it is shown that He gave this knowledge to a Messenger He has chosen so that it could be delivered to its recepients.

And with Him are the keys of the unseen treasures-- none knows them but He;..... 6:59

The Knower of the unseen! so He does not reveal His secrets to any, Except to him whom He chooses as an apostle;

for surely He makes a guard to march before him and after him, So that He may know that they have truly delivered

the messages of their Lord, and He encompasses what is with them and He records the number of all things. 72:26-

28

Abu Jaiyana will deny the possibility that the knowledge of the Unseen has been given to the Imams, on them be

peace, through the Messenger, peace be upon him and his family. The Messenger, peace be upon him and his

family, said:

"I am the City of Knowledge and 'Ali is its gate"

And say: (All) praise is due to Allah, Who has not taken a son and Who has not a partner in the kingdom, and Who

has not a wali / helper to save Him from disgrace; and proclaim His greatness magnifying (Him). 17:111

The above verse says that Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, does not take a partner in the kingdom and a wali or

guardian out of weakness.







But in the following verses, Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, gave the great kingdom to the family of Ibrahim, peace be

upon him, and gave the wilayah / guardianship to some believers.

Say: O Allah, Master of the Kingdom! Thou givest the kingdom to whomsoever Thou pleasest and takest away the

kingdom from whomsoever Thou pleasest,..... 3:26

Or do they envy the people for what Allah has given them of His grace? But indeed We have given to Ibrahim's

children the Book and the wisdom, and We have given them a grand kingdom. 4:54

Only Allah is your Wali and His Apostle and those who believe, those who keep up prayers and pay the poor-rate

while they bow. 5:55

By declaring as Shirk / Polytheism the practice of calling or addressing the Messenger, peace be upon him and his

family, to seek his shafa'a / intercession before Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, Abu Jaiyana has given his fatwa that

all Sunni and Shi'a Muslims are Mushrikuun / Polytheists because both Sunni and Shi'a are doing this practice. That

is why I said at the beginning of this debate that Abu Jaiyana does not represent the Ahlus Sunnah. He represents

the takfiri cult running berserk in the Middle East and beyond.

According to the Islamic Law, both Shi'a and Sunni agreed that the actions of the Muslims are seen in the light of

whether the action is Haram, Waajib, Mustahab, Makruh or Mubah.

Why is it the during the life of the Messenger, peace be upon him and his family, the Muslims were exhorted by Allah,

the Glorified, the Exalted, to come to him and seek his prayers for the forgiveness of their sins 4:64 but after he died,

the verses prohibiting calling the idols are applied to him?

Is he now an idol or a partner of Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted?

Anyway, it is only the believers who will agree with Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, when He commanded them not to

say or think that those who have been killed in the path of Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, as dead. They are living

but we cannot perceive or understand it. That is, the defect lies within us.

The Messenger, peace be upon him and his family, Fatima, 'Ali, Hasan, Husayn and the rest of the Imams, peace be

upon them all, were killed in the path of Allah, the Glorified , Exalted.

If the Messenger, peace be upon him and his family, is dead, then why is it that all the Muslims, Sunni, Shi'a and

Wahabi, are saying in their prayers: As salaamu 'alayka ayyuhan nabbiyyu wa rahmatollaahi wa barakaatoh?

Abu Jaiyana has a problem with my being a Filipino representing the Iranian Islam in the Philippines. Iranian Islam is

testified by Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him and his family, as per narrations of Bukhari and Muslim but his

Islam was established by a British spy Hempher in 1737. Muhammad bin AbdulWahab was the founder of the

Wahabi religion but his own father and brother gave Fatwa against him that he was acting against Islam by calling

other Muslims as Kafir.

To be continued.

Like · Reply · 7 · Yesterday at 11:45am · Edited

Nass Abinal Continuation of my conclusion.

And say: The truth has come and the falsehood has vanished; surely falsehood is a vanishing (thing). 17:81

After I have destroyed and rendered null the proposition of Abu Jaiyana, the following verses and narrations proved








beyond doubt that those who do not follow the chosen ones of Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, are the disbelievers

and polytheists.

But no! by your Lord! they do not believe (in reality) until they make you a judge of that which has become a matter of

disagreement among them, and then do not find any straitness in their hearts as to what you have decided and

submit with entire submission. 4:65

And if your Lord had pleased He would certainly have made people a single nation, and they shall continue to differ.

11:118

Except those on whom your Lord has mercy; and for this did He create them; and the word of your Lord is fulfilled:

Certainly I will fill hell with the jinn and the men, all together.

11:119

Say: I am only a mortal like you; it is revealed to me that your god is one Allah, therefore whoever hopes to meet his

Lord, he should do good deeds, and not join any one in the service of his Lord. 18:110

And your Lord creates and chooses whom He pleases; to choose is not theirs; glory be to Allah, and exalted be He

above what they associate (with Him). 28:68

And your Lord knows what their breasts conceal and what they manifest. 28:69

Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, did choose the Messenger, peace be upon and his family, and his purified Ahlulbayt,

peace be upon them.

Narrations:

'A'isha reported that Allah's Apostle (ملسو هيلع هللا ىلص) went out one norning wearing a striped cloak of the black camel's hair that

there came Hasan b. 'Ali. He wrapped him under it, then came Husain and he wrapped him under it along with the

other one (Hasan). Then came Fatima and he took her under it, then came 'Ali and he also took him under it and then

said: Allah only desires to take away any uncleanliness from you, O people of the household, and purify you

(thorough purifying)

Reference: Sahih Muslim 2424

In-book reference: Book 44, Hadith 91

......(The third occasion is this) when the (following) verse was revealed:" Let us summon our children and your

children." Allah's Messenger (ملسو هيلع هللا ىلص) called 'Ali, Fitima, Hasan and Husain and said: O Allah, they are my family.

Sahih Muslim

Reference: Sahih Muslim 2404 d (The Book of the Merits of the Companions)


Narrated Umm Salamah: "The Prophet (ملسو هيلع هللا ىلص) put a garment over Al-Hasan, Al-Hussain, 'Ali and Fatimah, then he

said: 'O Allah, these are the people of my house and the close ones, so remove the Rijs from them and purify them

thoroughly." So Umm Salamah said: 'And am I with them, O Messenger of Allah?' He said: "You are upon good."'

Narrated 'Ali bin Husain: from his father, from his grandfather, 'Ali bin Abi Talib: "The Prophet (ملسو هيلع هللا ىلص) took Hasan and

Husain by the hand and said: 'Whoever loves me and loves these two, and their father and mother, he shall be with

me in my level on the Day of Judgement."

English reference: Vol. 1, Book 46, Hadith 3733

Arabic reference: Book 49, Hadith 4098

Sa'd reported Allah's Apostle (ملسو هيلع هللا ىلص) as saying to 'Ali: Aren't you satisfied with being unto me what Aaron was unto

Moses?

Sahih Muslim

Reference: Sahih Muslim 2404 e (The Book of the Merits of the Companions)


Narrated Hubshi bin Junadah: that the Messenger of Allah (ملسو هيلع هللا ىلص) said: "'Ali is from me and I am from 'Ali. And none

should represent me except myself or 'Ali."



Narrated Al-Miswar bin Makhrama: Allah's Messenger (ملسو هيلع هللا ىلص) said, "Fatima is a part of me, and he who makes her

angry, makes me angry."

Reference: Sahih al-Bukhari 3714

In-book reference:Book 62, Hadith 64

Narrated Zaid bin Arqam: that the Messenger of Allah (ملسو هيلع هللا ىلص) said to 'Ali, Fatimah, Al-Hasan and Al-Husain: "I am at

war with whoever makes war with you, and peace for whoever makes peace with you."



Abu Bakr heard all these verses and narrations and then he disbelieved them by declaring that those who worship

Muhammad should know the Muhammad has died. As if there were people who were worshiping Muhammad, peace

be upon him and his family, then he took the Khilafah.

Now, Abu Jaiyana, is saying that the Shi'a and the Sunni are worshipping Muhammad, peace be upon him and his

family, because they are asking the Messenger, peace be upon him and his family, to intercede in their behalf before

Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted.

Abu Bakr and Abu Jaiyana only mean that tthose who are following Muhammad, peace upon him and his family, and

approaching Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, through Muhammad, peace be upon him and his family, and the Imams,

peace be upon them, are Mushrikuun, which is a blatant lie.


Salaamun 'alaykum wa rahmatollaahi wa barakaatoh.

Like · Reply · 7 · Yesterday at 10:52am · Edited

Nass Abinal The debate is now officially finished.

It is up to the readers to decide.


https://www.facebook.com/groups/641344035998190/718829131583013/?notif_t=like











https://www.facebook.com/groups/641344035998190/718829131583013/?notif_t=like


Sunni – Shia Debate On Polytheism Asking Help From Other Than Allah (Ali or Husain) in Dua is...

Documents

Transcript of Sunni – Shia Debate On Polytheism Asking Help From Other Than Allah (Ali or Husain) in Dua is...