Smoke Scene

8/2/2019 Smoke Scene

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1)Frank, the problem is all new Prime Ministerswant to cut either taxes or public expenditure.

2)Thank you. That's what Hacker wants, too.

3)Politicians are like children.

4)You can't just give them whatthey want. It only encourages them!

5)But let's be clear about this, Humphrey.

6)The entire system hinges on you asCabinet Secretary controlling the PM

7)and on me as Permanent Secretary atthe Treasury controlling the Chancellor.

8)- Right?

- Right.

9)And on both of us keeping an agreeabletension between them, mistrust, hostility.

10)Mind you, I think they'd managethat all right even without us.

11)The Chancellor will never forgive thePrime Minister for beating him to Number 10

12)and the Prime Minister willnever trust the Chancellor.

13)- One never trusts anyone one has deceived.- Perhaps not.

14_But tax cuts unite them.They get them both votes.

15)Yes, but surely this tax cut is contingentupon the Prime Minister's fantasy

16)about cancelling Trident andswitching to conventional forces.

17)Nevertheless, he is givingaway 1.5 billion of our money!

18)It's unthinkable, even if only proposals. I hada real job getting the Chancellor to oppose it.

19)How did you do it?

20


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I used the one about our needing the moneyfor hospitals, schools and old people.

21- The kidney machine gambit.- The caring Chancellor

22- Yes, that one.- It usually works.

23But would a tax cut matter allthat much? It's only 1.5 billion.

24I agree, it's not much in itself. My worryis about you letting it get through so soon.

25If I were in your shoes at the Treasury,

26I'd be much more worried about thestate of the economy, low productivity.

27That's not our fault.

28It's the British worker- fundamentally lazy, wants something for nothing.

29The figures for absenteeism are going up andup. Nobody wants to do an honest day's work.

30- Shocking! I must rush.- Busy afternoon?

31Yes, indeed. I gatherEngland are 70 for 3.

32Whoa, whoa! Easy does it, Gerald.

33Plenty more where that came from.Cheers. To the Civil Service!

34To the British Tobacco


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Group and its chairman.

35Thank you.

36

Ah!

37I do love a good afternoon's cricket.

38You know, you chaps at BTG arenational benefactors really.

39We like to think so.

40

You know, Gerald, I've got a small favourto ask on behalf of the Royal Opera House.

41Now, as you know, Covent Garden is moreor less run from the Cabinet Office.

42But I'm told that one or more productionsare threatened next year, lack of funds.

43Well, I've got the Minister for

Sport coming along this afternoon.

44I know he wants to twist my arm on behalfof Wimbledon or Brands Hatch or something.

45Covent Garden... We'll see what we can do.

46Oh, I don't know wherewe'd all be without you.

47Tell me, have you everinvited Peter Thorne?

48- The Minister of Health?- You always included them.

49


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This one's been got atby the anti-smoking lobby.

50Oh, silly man!

51Very silly. He hasn't got muchclout in Whitehall, has he?

52None at all. He's just a minister.

53Good shot!

54Was he out?

55Humphrey, this paper says that if wecancel Trident and bring in conscription,

56we shall have 1.5 billion fortax cuts, and what do I find?

57- What do you find, Prime Minister?- The Chancellor opposes me.

58

A great chance to be popular with the votersand he says no. Doesn't that surprise you?

59No.

60Why doesn't it surprise you?

61He's advised by the Treasury and theydon't believe in giving money back.

62- It's not theirs. It's the taxpayers'.- That's not the view the Treasury takes.

63- Not once they've got it.- But if they don't need it?

64


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- Sorry?- If they don't need it.

65- Taxation isn't about what you need.- What is it about?

66The Treasury doesn't work out what they needto spend and then think how to raise the money.

67What DOES it do?

68They pitch for as much as they think they canget away with, then think what to spend it on.

69

If you start giving moneyback because you don't need it,

70you're breaking withcenturies of tradition.

71- What would happen to the British Navy?- We still need a navy.

72]We have four capital ships, so we need only

four admirals and one Admiral of the Fleet.

73- How many Admirals have we got?- 60.

74The Treasury's the most powerfuldepartment as it controls all the money.

75If you take away its money, youtake away its power, so they resist.

76- How will the Treasury agree to tax cuts?- Get the Chancellor to agree.

77- How will the Chancellor agree?- Get the Treasury to agree.


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78- This is impossible.- Yes, Prime Minister, it is impossible.

79- We must be able to force the Treasury's hand.

- Yes, by forcing the Chancellor's hand.

80- How do I force the Chancellor's hand?- By forcing the Treasury's hand.

81Can't YOU persuade the Chancellor?He's your Cabinet colleague.

82That's the point. I need helpfrom somebody who's on my side.

83The Minister of State at the DHSS is here.

84- Show him in. Thank you, Humphrey.- Thank you, Prime Minister.

85- Dr Thorne, Prime Minister.- Peter, come in.

86

Sit down.

87Now, you wanted to talk to me about...?

88- Cigarettes.- Ah, yes.

89- You read my paper?- Yes, absolutely.

90How did you react?

91Well, I...wonder if you couldsummarise it in your own words.

92Those WERE my own words.


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93Yes, yes, exactly, of course.

94But the Prime Minister often finds that a

brief summary focuses on the salient points.

95Salient points, precisely.

96Well, briefly, I'm proposing that the governmentshould take action to eliminate smoking,

97a complete ban on all cigarettesponsorship and advertising,

9850 million to be spenton anti-smoking publicity,

99a ban on smoking in all public places andprogressive tax rises over the next five years

100until a packet of 20 costs aboutthe same as a bottle of whisky.

101

Isn't that rather drastic?

10200:07:18,920 --> 00:07:23,836Absolutely. It should reduce smokingby at least 80%, 90% if we're lucky

103and drive tobaccocompanies out of business.

104Yes. Well, Peter, of course, you

know I agree with you basically.

105Smoking should be stopped.

106No question. And we willstop it in due course.


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107At the appropriate juncture,in the fullness of time.

108- You mean forget it?

- No, absolutely not.

109But we must be realists. Youand I weren't born yesterday.

110- No, and we didn't die yesterday.- No. What?

111300 people did prematurelyas a result of smoking.

112100,000 deaths a year at least.

113It's appalling, but you knowwhat the Treasury would say?

114They'd say that smoking bringsin 4 billion a year in revenue.

115

- You can't beat the Treasury.- Not with financial arguments.

116But this is a moral argument.

117Yes, but even...

118Wait a minute. I've got an idea. Thiscould be a way to beat the Treasury.

119- You mean you'll support me?- You've made your point.

120We'll give it a try. I'lleven read your report. Again!

121


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This could be very interesting.Thank you very much indeed.

122But will you support me?

123Yeah, well, not publicly.

124It would undermine my position, undermine theargument if I supported you from the start.

125I have to be seen as the impartial judgeswayed by the force of the argument.

126Yes, I see that.

127But off the record, I'd like tosee this pushed very hard indeed.

128)Make some speeches on it. Peter,thank you very much indeed.

129Thank you for your cigarettepaper... your paper on cigarettes.

130

- Is this serious?- What do you mean?

131It's always been the practice

132to discourage anti-smoking speeches byministers and not to distribute them.

133Well, I want Peter's speechesdistributed. I want everybody to know.

134Yes, Prime Minister. Do you think you will winthis one? The tobacco lobby is very powerful.

135Well, some you win, some you lose,Bernard. This one I shall definitely lose.


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136Then why?

137If you were the Treasury, would yourather do without 1.5 billion in tax cuts

138or 4 billion in lost tobacco tax revenue?

139The tax cuts.

140Exactly. That's what I wantand that's what I shall get.

141- Can Sir Humphrey have a word?

- Of course.

142Yes, come in, please.

143- Prime Minister...- Humphrey.

144Did you have an interestingchat with Dr Thorne?

14500:10:08,519 --> 00:10:11,237Yes. He proposed theelimination of smoking.

14600:10:15,080 --> 00:10:17,877By a campaign of mass hypnosis perhaps!

14700:10:18,839 --> 00:10:23,961By raising tobacco taxes sky high andsimultaneously banning all advertising.

14800:10:26,598 --> 00:10:31,197- I think his position is admirably moral.- Moral perhaps, but extremely silly.

14900:10:31,360 --> 00:10:35,317No man in his right mind could


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contemplate such a proposal.

150I'm contemplating it.

151

Yes, of course, Prime Minister.Please don't misunderstand me.

152It is quite right that you should CONTEMPLATEall proposals that come from your government,

153but no sane man would ever SUPPORT it.

154- I'm supporting it.- And quite right too, Prime Minister.

155The only problem is that the tax on tobacco isa major source of revenue for the government.

156And a major source of death from diseases.

157Yes, but no definite causativelink has ever been proved, has it?

158

- The statistics...- You can prove anything with statistics.

159- Even the truth.- Yes... No!

160It says here, "Smoking-related diseasescost the NHS 165 million a year."

161Yes, but we've been into that.

162It has been shown that if those extra100,000 people had lived to a ripe old age,

163they would have cost us even morein pensions and social security


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164than they did in medical treatment.

165So financially speaking,it's unquestionably better

166that they continue to dieat about the present rate.

167"When cholera killed 30,000 peoplein 1833, we got the Public Health Act.

168"When smog killed 2,500 people in1952, we got the Clean Air Act."

169A commercial drug kills half a dozenpeople and we get it withdrawn from sale.

170Cigarettes kill 100,000 peoplea year and what do we get?

1714 billion a year.

17225,000 jobs in the tobacco industry, a

flourishing cigarette export business,

173helping our balance of trade,

174250,000 jobs related to tobacco- newsagents, packaging, transport...

175- These figures are just guesses.- No, they're government st... They're facts.

176So your statistics are facts andmy facts are merely statistics?

177I'm on your side. I'm merely givingyou some arguments you'll encounter.

178


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Humphrey, I'm so glad to knowwe'll have support such as yours.

179It will be pointed out that the tobaccocompanies are great sponsors of sport.

180Where would the BBC sports programmes beif cigarette companies couldn't advert...

181couldn't SPONSOR theevents that they televise?

182We're talking about 100,000 deaths a year.

183

Yes, but cigarette taxes pay for a thirdof the cost of the National Health Service.

184We're saving many morelives than we otherwise could

185because of those smokers who voluntarilylay down their lives for their friends.

186Smokers are national benefactors.

187So long as they live!

188Not that any definite causallink has ever been proved.

189It's time for your next Cabinet committee,then the Minister of Sport wants an urgent word.

190

00:13:18,319 --> 00:13:20,786- What about?- Sponsorship.

19100:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,549Who tipped him off? He'sone of the tobacco lobby.


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19200:13:25,759 --> 00:13:28,433A member of YOUR government?

19300:13:28,598 --> 00:13:33,514

Yes, he's Minister for Sport. He has a vestedinterest. He's also an MP for Nottingham.

19400:13:33,679 --> 00:13:36,147Did you tell him? How did he know?

19500:13:36,319 --> 00:13:38,833The grapevine perhaps. Prime Minister...

19600:13:39,879 --> 00:13:42,394

Tell the minister I'll see him at 2.30.

19700:13:42,558 --> 00:13:47,031- With pleasure, Prime Minister.- Not with pleasure, but I'll see him anyway.

19800:13:48,558 --> 00:13:51,027The Minister for Sport, Prime Minister.

19900:13:51,199 --> 00:13:53,794

Oh, Leslie, my dear fellow. Hi.

20000:13:56,279 --> 00:13:58,746Do you mind if I smoke?

20100:14:00,478 --> 00:14:02,993Prime Minister, it's about the rumour

20200:14:03,158 --> 00:14:07,232that you intend to make a personal

attack on the tobacco industry.

20300:14:07,399 --> 00:14:09,993- I hadn't heard that rumour.- It's not true?

20400:14:10,158 --> 00:14:13,197


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The Minister for Healthis considering the matter.

20500:14:13,360 --> 00:14:15,748There's no smoke without fire.

20600:14:15,920 --> 00:14:19,991You'd be consulted. As Ministerfor Sport, you have an interest.

20700:14:20,199 --> 00:14:22,190Never mind sport.

20800:14:22,360 --> 00:14:28,275There are marginal seats in Bristol, Nottingham,

Glasgow, Basildon and Northern Ireland,

20900:14:28,438 --> 00:14:30,634all with tobacco workers.

21000:14:30,799 --> 00:14:35,076I've got 4,000 tobacco workers inmy constituency. What about my seat?

21100:14:38,279 --> 00:14:40,395

What about your lungs?

21200:14:40,920 --> 00:14:42,911My lungs are fine.

21300:14:43,120 --> 00:14:45,871He doesn't breathe through his seat.

21400:14:47,399 --> 00:14:49,993Oh, your seat, I see, I'm sorry.

21500:14:50,158 --> 00:14:54,790Thank you, Bernard. I see the difficulty,but if something is right for the country,

21600:14:54,961 --> 00:14:57,428surely the government must pursue it.


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21700:14:57,598 --> 00:15:02,389The government must do what's right, butnot if it affects marginal constituencies.

21800:15:02,558 --> 00:15:05,312- There is a limit.- No decision has been taken.

21900:15:05,519 --> 00:15:08,192For the good of theparty, you can't do this.

22000:15:08,399 --> 00:15:12,394Weren't you a paid consultant

to the British Tobacco Group?

22100:15:13,158 --> 00:15:17,790Of course, the fact that theBTG did pay me a small retainer,

22200:15:17,961 --> 00:15:20,348it's totally beside the point.

22300:15:20,519 --> 00:15:26,036

They're a very generous corporation with astrong sense of responsibility to the community.

22400:15:26,199 --> 00:15:28,794Look at all the money they give to sport!

22500:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,466They just do it to sell more cigarettes.

22600:15:31,639 --> 00:15:34,473

No, they do it as aservice to the community.

22700:15:34,679 --> 00:15:40,312Oh, that's all right, then. They can go ongiving the money anonymously if they like.

228


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00:15:40,519 --> 00:15:42,987Well, I'm sure they'd be happy to,

22900:15:43,158 --> 00:15:47,630provided they could publicise the fact

that they were doing it anonymously.

23000:15:47,799 --> 00:15:52,714Is it true that Peter Thorne is also tryingto change the government health warning?

23100:15:52,920 --> 00:15:54,397Is it?

23200:15:54,558 --> 00:16:00,031

He's proposing something like "Dying of lungcancer can seriously damage your health".

23300:16:00,240 --> 00:16:02,230It is not true!

23400:16:02,399 --> 00:16:04,866If we do nothing, in the next ten years,

23500:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,190

in this country we'll haveone million premature deaths.

23600:16:08,399 --> 00:16:10,866Yes, but evenly spread.

23700:16:12,240 --> 00:16:14,754Not just in marginal constituencies.

23800:16:15,399 --> 00:16:20,313

Listen, Jim, there is noconclusive proof of any causal link

23900:16:20,478 --> 00:16:22,629between smoking and...

24000:16:26,399 --> 00:16:30,107


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We at the DHSS are profoundlyworried about smoking.

24100:16:30,319 --> 00:16:34,790And we agree it's our duty to help the

Prime Minister achieve his objective,

24200:16:34,961 --> 00:16:39,350but with a third of the voters assmokers, I can't raise taxes too high.

24300:16:39,519 --> 00:16:45,197The Chancellor won't commit electoral suicideand the inflationary effect is considerable.

244

00:16:45,399 --> 00:16:47,833There is a moral principle involved.

24500:16:48,040 --> 00:16:50,156Moral principle, yes.

24600:16:50,360 --> 00:16:56,036We understand the PM's concern. In fact,we earnestly believe in the moral principle.

247

00:16:56,240 --> 00:17:00,312But where 4 billionof revenue is at stake,

24800:17:00,478 --> 00:17:03,471I think we should haveto consider very carefully

24900:17:03,639 --> 00:17:06,153whether we have theright to indulge ourselves

25000:17:06,320 --> 00:17:10,471in the rather selfish luxuryof pursuing moral principles.

25100:17:10,680 --> 00:17:15,755Where would the arts be without tobacco


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sponsorship? At the mercy of the Arts Council.

25200:17:15,921 --> 00:17:21,677Exactly. Then those silly pressure groups andfanatics like the Royal College of Physicians!

25300:17:21,880 --> 00:17:23,278Fanatics!

25400:17:23,439 --> 00:17:26,432They want the government tohave a policy on the matter.

25500:17:26,639 --> 00:17:29,631It would be different if

the government were a team,

25600:17:29,800 --> 00:17:33,269but in fact they're a looseconfederation of warring tribes.

25700:17:34,519 --> 00:17:40,470If only the PM could meet the tobacco people,he could see what really nice chaps they were.

258

00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:43,796And genuinely concernedabout the health risks.

25900:17:44,000 --> 00:17:49,756There can't be anything wrong with them. BTGhave an ex-Permanent Secretary on their board.

26000:17:49,961 --> 00:17:53,951- And could well have more.- In the fullness of time.

26100:17:54,961 --> 00:17:59,192I think we ought to raise somequestions about your minister, Ian.

26200:17:59,360 --> 00:18:03,238What does he know about the subject?


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Peter Thorne is only a doctor.

26300:18:03,400 --> 00:18:05,913His sole purpose is keeping people alive!

26400:18:06,121 --> 00:18:08,112Must be biased.

26500:18:08,279 --> 00:18:12,750Seeing your patients die mustemotionally distort your judgement.

26600:18:12,921 --> 00:18:17,675It's very understandable, but a greathandicap to cool decision-taking.

26700:18:17,880 --> 00:18:21,157Very true, but can we findsomething a bit stronger?

26800:18:21,360 --> 00:18:25,750Frank, I think the crucial argumentis that we're living in a free country.

26900:18:25,921 --> 00:18:28,433

We must be free to make our own decisions.

27000:18:28,599 --> 00:18:32,592Government shouldn't be a nursemaid.We don't want the nanny state.

27100:18:32,759 --> 00:18:34,113- Very good.- Excellent.

272

00:18:34,279 --> 00:18:37,430The only problem isthat is also the argument

27300:18:37,599 --> 00:18:41,354for legalising the sale of marijuana,heroin, arsenic and gelignite.


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27400:18:41,558 --> 00:18:45,189Maybe that's a good idea if weput a big enough tax on them.

275

00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,313- Politically difficult.- Pity.

27600:18:48,519 --> 00:18:49,999Yes.

27700:18:51,240 --> 00:18:52,753Got it!

278

00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:58,238When the Prime Minister wasMinister for Administrative Affairs,

27900:18:58,400 --> 00:19:03,837I used to get him to accompany me on regularvisits to Lord's, Wimbledon and Glyndebourne

28000:19:04,041 --> 00:19:06,235as a guest of BTG,

28100:19:06,400 --> 00:19:11,680so he's thoroughly implicated inreceiving hospitality worth hundreds,

28200:19:11,840 --> 00:19:14,229possibly thousands from them.

28300:19:14,400 --> 00:19:19,314Now, if that were to leak...shocking though a leak would be...

28400:19:19,479 --> 00:19:22,392- Oh, shocking.- Shocking.

28500:19:23,121 --> 00:19:26,715It'd be profoundly embarrassing


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for the Prime Minister.

28600:19:26,880 --> 00:19:29,712I can't think why Ididn't think of it before.

28700:19:29,880 --> 00:19:31,872Nor can I.

28800:19:35,921 --> 00:19:38,389- Well, Bernard.- Well, Prime Minister.

28900:19:38,599 --> 00:19:41,159Very well. Things are

going very well indeed.

29000:19:41,360 --> 00:19:43,351Oh, good.

29100:19:43,519 --> 00:19:46,512I've got the Treasury onthe run and the Chancellor.

29200:19:46,680 --> 00:19:49,148

Is that good? He's in your own government.

29300:19:49,320 --> 00:19:54,349Of course it's good. They've got to learnto come to heel and learn to co-operate.

29400:19:54,558 --> 00:19:58,599- What do you mean, co-operate?- I mean obey my commands!

295

00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:00,278I see.

29600:20:00,479 --> 00:20:03,996That's what "co-operate" meanswhen you're Prime Minister.

297


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00:20:04,159 --> 00:20:08,791Why are these tax cuts in yourinterest? It's your government too.

29800:20:09,000 --> 00:20:13,791

Bernard, it's simple. Cutting taxes by 1.5billion is going to win us masses of votes.

29900:20:13,961 --> 00:20:18,829My ministers are interested in getting moneyfor their departments, not in supporting me.

30000:20:19,000 --> 00:20:22,787I'm using my support for PeterThorne as leverage on the Treasury.

30100:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,720- Your loyal support?- Precisely.

30200:20:25,880 --> 00:20:28,314In order to get THEIR loyal support.

30300:20:28,479 --> 00:20:32,758After you get the tax cut, you willwithdraw your support from Peter Thorne?

30400:20:32,961 --> 00:20:36,191Bernard, how can you be so cynical?

30500:20:36,360 --> 00:20:39,032I shall simply rearrange my priorities.

30600:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,795Sir Humphrey's waiting to see you outside.

30700:20:41,961 --> 00:20:44,110Send him in at once.

30800:20:44,279 --> 00:20:48,273Yes, Prime Minister. Yourword is my co-operation.


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30900:20:53,519 --> 00:20:55,509- Humphrey!- Prime Minister.

310

00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:59,639- Everything all right?- Everything is very far from all right.

31100:20:59,840 --> 00:21:03,354- What's the trouble? - Youranti-smoking legislation.

31200:21:03,519 --> 00:21:04,951What about it?

31300:21:05,121 --> 00:21:08,157Notwithstanding thefact that your proposal

31400:21:08,320 --> 00:21:11,996could encompass certain concomitantbenefits of a peripheral relevance,

31500:21:12,159 --> 00:21:16,153there is a countervailing consideration

of infinitely superior magnitude,

31600:21:16,320 --> 00:21:20,198involving your personal complicityand corroborative malfeasance,

31700:21:20,360 --> 00:21:25,354with the consequence that the taint and stigmaof your former associations and diversions

318

00:21:25,519 --> 00:21:29,273could irredeemably and irretrievablyinvalidate your position

31900:21:29,439 --> 00:21:34,229and culminate in public revelations andrecriminations of a profoundly embarrassing


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32000:21:34,400 --> 00:21:36,913and ultimately indefensible character.

32100:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,866

Perhaps I could have a prcis of that.

32200:21:43,360 --> 00:21:46,909- There's nicotine on your hands.- What do you mean?

32300:21:47,121 --> 00:21:50,999All the hospitality thatwe've enjoyed at BTG's expense.

324

00:21:51,159 --> 00:21:54,913Champagne receptions, the best seatsat sporting and cultural events.

32500:21:55,121 --> 00:21:59,351- What's the problem?- The tobacco companies may tell the press.

32600:21:59,558 --> 00:22:04,555So? I've had drinks at the Soviet embassy.That doesn't make me a Russian spy.

32700:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,192Oh... Well... Oh.

32800:22:09,680 --> 00:22:11,988- Does it?- Well, no.

32900:22:12,159 --> 00:22:14,675Let them do their worst. Anything else?

33000:22:14,840 --> 00:22:19,197Well, Prime Minister, there isanother vital point to bear in mind.

33100:22:19,360 --> 00:22:21,874A lot of eminent people,


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influential people

33200:22:22,041 --> 00:22:25,920argue that such legislation wouldbe a blow against freedom of choice.

33300:22:26,121 --> 00:22:31,317Rubbish! I'm not banning smoking. Does everytax rise represent a blow against freedom?

33400:22:31,519 --> 00:22:33,988Well, it depends how big the tax rise is.

33500:22:34,759 --> 00:22:37,831Fascinating! Does 20 pence

represent a blow against freedom?

33600:22:38,041 --> 00:22:42,032- Prime Minister...- 25 pence? 30 pence? 31?

33700:22:42,200 --> 00:22:47,273Is something a blow against freedom simplybecause it can seriously damage your wealth?

338

00:22:47,479 --> 00:22:52,599I must warn you of the difficulties. Iforesee all sorts of unforeseen problems.

33900:22:52,800 --> 00:22:54,392Such as?

34000:22:54,558 --> 00:22:57,756If I could foresee them,they wouldn't be unforeseen.

34100:22:59,921 --> 00:23:02,639You just said you COULD foresee them.

34200:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,791If we could set up aninter-departmental committee,


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34300:23:05,961 --> 00:23:09,396a Royal Commission, perhapsa Treasury Committee...

344

00:23:09,599 --> 00:23:12,592- Don't talk to me about the Treasury!- Why not?

34500:23:12,759 --> 00:23:16,753The Treasury are blocking myplans for a 1.5 billion tax cut.

34600:23:17,519 --> 00:23:20,875If only they could be more...flexible.

34700:23:24,279 --> 00:23:25,759Oh...

34800:23:27,279 --> 00:23:31,831Well, I don't think they're fullycommitted on that other matter yet.

34900:23:32,041 --> 00:23:33,554Really?

35000:23:34,639 --> 00:23:38,269Absolutely not. Oh, no, I'msure they could find a way.

35100:23:38,479 --> 00:23:40,470Could they?

35200:23:40,639 --> 00:23:45,157The only stumbling block would be ifyour anti-smoking proposals went through,

35300:23:45,320 --> 00:23:49,471they'd be too busy with those to finda way to help with the other cuts.

35400:23:49,680 --> 00:23:53,753Well, of course, my anti-smoking


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proposals, important though they are,

35500:23:53,921 --> 00:23:57,470don't have nearly such ahigh priority as defence.

35600:23:58,159 --> 00:23:59,673Ah.

35700:24:00,479 --> 00:24:02,948The Minister of State for Health is here.

35800:24:03,121 --> 00:24:08,113Prime Minister, if I might have one or twominutes to make some phone calls. Thank you.

35900:24:08,279 --> 00:24:10,349Show him in, Bernard.

36000:24:11,639 --> 00:24:14,836- Dr Thorne.- Peter, what can I do for you?

36100:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,467I've just had some very exciting news.

36200:24:17,639 --> 00:24:22,316We've got full backing from the BMA andeight top scientific and medical colleges.

36300:24:23,759 --> 00:24:25,750Marvellous.

36400:24:26,479 --> 00:24:29,471But your legislation can't

be put through immediately.

36500:24:29,680 --> 00:24:35,233It is announced as government policy withinthree months, with a White Paper in a year.

36600:24:35,439 --> 00:24:41,072


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Yes, since we spoke, I've encountereda few problems. The Treasury, you know.

36700:24:41,279 --> 00:24:45,479- Can't be anything you didn't know already?

- Yes. I mean no... Well, yes.

36800:24:45,639 --> 00:24:48,153Peter, it's not as simple as you think.

36900:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,787Jim, I really am serious about this.

37000:24:50,961 --> 00:24:55,476It's the one really important and worthwhile

thing I believe I can do in politics.

37100:24:55,639 --> 00:24:59,997If you stall it, I'll haveto resign. And say why.

37200:25:00,200 --> 00:25:04,990Excuse me, Prime Minister. Could SirHumphrey see you urgently just for a moment?

373

00:25:05,159 --> 00:25:08,153- Would you mind waiting outside, Peter?- Of course.

37400:25:11,439 --> 00:25:13,796Prime Minister, it's quite all right.

37500:25:13,961 --> 00:25:19,113The Treasury have looked at your proposalagain and they can encompass your tax cut,

37600:25:19,279 --> 00:25:22,590provided no work is neededon the anti-smoking proposal.

37700:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,314That's fine, but thereis another complication.


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37800:25:25,479 --> 00:25:27,948Peter Thorne is goingto resign if I drop it,

37900:25:28,121 --> 00:25:32,634go to the press and have me condemned byall the doctors and scientists in Britain.

38000:25:32,800 --> 00:25:34,278Oh...

38100:25:34,439 --> 00:25:35,920Help!

38200:25:38,519 --> 00:25:41,831You still have that governmentvacancy in the Treasury?

38300:25:42,558 --> 00:25:46,872You mean...? It's a very bigpromotion, a very rapid one.

38400:25:47,081 --> 00:25:49,800Nevertheless, for a very able minister.

38500:25:51,000 --> 00:25:55,470Bernard, get Peter back in here and thenget on to the Department of the Environment.

38600:25:55,639 --> 00:25:58,073Get Leslie Potts over here at once.

38700:25:58,240 --> 00:26:02,028Prime Minister, I think I'll

just, erm... If you'll excuse me.

38800:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,191Dr Thorne.

38900:26:05,320 --> 00:26:09,916Peter, I've just remembered we still


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have that vacancy at the Treasury.

39000:26:10,081 --> 00:26:12,595I've been racking mybrains how to fill it,

39100:26:12,759 --> 00:26:16,037but your work on this paperhas impressed me enormously.

39200:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,708You're not trying to get rid of me?

39300:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,679Definitely not. Quite the reverse.

39400:26:21,880 --> 00:26:23,872It's a terrific step up.

39500:26:24,081 --> 00:26:26,470But thoroughly merited.

39600:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,639How can I take it if itmeans dropping my bill?

39700:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,354Peter, sit down.

39800:26:32,558 --> 00:26:35,198Let me be absolutely honest with you.

39900:26:37,121 --> 00:26:42,592This legislation would have been...wouldbe... will be very difficult to get through.

40000:26:43,200 --> 00:26:47,192The Treasury is the stumblingblock, not the Department of Health.

40100:26:47,360 --> 00:26:50,875It'll take longer, but if you


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were inside learning the ropes,

40200:26:51,041 --> 00:26:56,317we'd have a much better chance of a watertight,foolproof Act when it gets to the statute book.

40300:26:56,479 --> 00:26:59,756- Believe me.- So my proposals aren't dropped?

40400:27:00,439 --> 00:27:02,749Absolutely not.

40500:27:03,360 --> 00:27:06,750- OK. I'll take the Treasury job.

- Good.

40600:27:06,961 --> 00:27:09,555Thanks a lot. Goodbye, Prime Minister.

40700:27:15,041 --> 00:27:19,032That leaves us with a vacancy atthe Department of Health. Now...

40800:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,715

The Minister for Sportis here, Prime Minister.

40900:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,788- Come in.- Mr Potts!

41000:27:26,279 --> 00:27:28,715Leslie! My dear chap.

411

00:27:30,081 --> 00:27:32,595Sit down. Now...

41200:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,916How would you like tobe Minister of Health?

413


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00:27:42,121 --> 00:27:44,634- Me?- Yes.

41400:27:45,320 --> 00:27:46,720

Well...

41500:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,599It's a considerable promotion.

41600:27:49,759 --> 00:27:51,990But thoroughly merited.

41700:27:52,840 --> 00:27:57,834You're very suitable for the job. You're not

one of the medical lobby like Dr Peter Thorne.

41800:27:59,081 --> 00:28:03,595Well, of course I can't refuseit. Thank you, Prime Minister.

41900:28:04,439 --> 00:28:07,034Humphrey, meet our newMinister for Health.

420

00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,555Oh, congratulations.

42100:28:11,000 --> 00:28:14,308I don't want the job if it meansattacking the tobacco industry.

42200:28:14,519 --> 00:28:16,509Ah, but it wouldn't.

423

00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:20,308You see, Leslie, we ingovernment have to be realists.

42400:28:20,479 --> 00:28:23,596I want you to work WITHthe tobacco industry.


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42500:28:23,759 --> 00:28:26,273They're only trying tosort out the problems.

426

00:28:26,439 --> 00:28:31,958They've got huge resources, nice chaps,caring people and really fabulous employers.

42700:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,189They are really trying to help.

42800:28:35,360 --> 00:28:38,956I want you to work with theindustry, not against it.

42900:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,067All right?

43000:28:44,759 --> 00:28:46,750What did he say?

43100:28:46,921 --> 00:28:49,389I think he said, "Yes, Prime Minister."

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