8/20/2019 Short Ckt Calc Discussion

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Pre!ious in "oru#$ Co##issioning es for generaor rela%s   Ne& in "oru#$ How o i(e Moor Pu

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u*scr

+ell%shor

,ci!e Conri*uor

oin Dae$ an ./0/

Poss$ 04

 Fault Current Gone Wrong/01/21./0/ 4$34 PM

a# wor+ing on a design wih 536 .3//+7 generaors and wih he Reaca

slg 03/+,C9 s here an%wa% o li#i his faul curren9 +now a neural gr

*u wha a*ou a 8) faul: is here an%hing li+e ha ou here; M% clien dli#iing fuses9 ,n% houghs would *e a))reciaed9

Regiser o Re)l%

Pahfinder Tags$ High "aul Curren 

neresed in his o)ic; <% =oining CR4 %ou can >su*scri*e> ohis discussion and recei!e noificaion when new co##ens are added

oin CR4: The Engineer's Place for News and Discussion?

Comments rated to be Good Answers:These co##ens recei!ed enough )osii!e raings o #a+e he# >good answers>9

• @08 >Re: Fault Current Gone Wrong> *% ,non%#ous Poser on /01/A1./0/ B$0A ,M 5score

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:Chec+ ou hese co##ens ha don' %e ha!e enough !oes o *e >official> good answers and: if %ou agree wih h

• @8 >Re: Fault Current gone wrong> *% rasa#9s%a#sudin on /01/21./0/ B$42 PM 5score 06

• @0 >Re: Fault Current Gone Wrong> *% #o+a#el on /010.1./0/ 0.$4/ PM 5score 06

wareagleuru

oin Dae$ un .//

ocaion$ ,la*a#a

Poss$ 0B42

ood ,nswers$ B4

 Re: Fault Current gone wrong/01/21./0/ 3$// PM

assu#e ha he 04/ F, is wih he generaors in )arallel9 Do he% ha!e a he #ain swich;

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+ell%shor

,ci!e Conri*uor

oin Dae$ an ./0/

Poss$ 04

 Re: Fault Current gone wrong

/01/21./0/ 3$/8 PM

Ges he% are in )arrallel and hi a co##on *us a 04/F,9 ,nd %es he% wan

gear is now .//+aic and huge?

Regiser o Re)l%

rasa#9s%a#sudin

Co##enaor

oin Dae$ Dec .//A

ocaion$ a+ara 0.08/ndonesia

Poss$ 2B

ood ,nswers$ 0

 Re: Fault Current gone wrong/01/21./0/ B$42 PM

Dear Fell%shor:

To reduce 9C curren we ha!e o insall reacor in series wih generaocircui sud% in si(ing reacor9

<u: a# reall% confuse wih %our case: wh% he shor-circui curren is,re hese a s)ecial generaor wih !er% low su*ransien1ransien reac

conri*uion fro# each .3// +7 generaor is . +,9

ha!e e&)erience wih sea# ur*ine generaor 089 +: 0.93 M7: /9

around 0893I and ransien reacance .BI: he 9C conri*uion curre+, %##9 "or 3 M7 ED we ha!e su*ransien reacance ..I and ra

Please chec+ %our generaor su*ransien and ransien reacance o en

correc;

Regards:

 JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ

RM Elec )ecialis

Regiser o Re)l%Score 1 for Good Answer

h+ian

Co##enaor

oin Dae$ an ./0/

Poss$ 28

ood ,nswers$ 0

 Re: Fault Current gone wrong/01/21./0/ 0/$8. PM

%es agree wih rasa#99 he faul is so high for a .3//M7 generaor99

Regiser o Re)l%

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,non%#ousPoser

 Re: Fault Current gone wrong/01/21./0/ 00$08 PM

nsead of o)ing for reacor %ou can go for generaor ransfor#er and )ara

ransfor#er hen faul curren can *e *rough o #ini#u#9

Regiser o Re)l%

 =ose)h sihole

,ci!e Conri*uor

oin Dae$ Oc .//A

Poss$ .4

 Re: Fault Current gone wrong/01/1./0/ 0.$0A ,M

s he 3 nu#*er of generaors o *e conneced in )arallel 5s%nchronised6 o

,re he generaors of he sa#e #a+e and s)ecs

s du% )ri#e or sand*%9

Than+s

Regiser o Re)l%

shan*hag

Co##enaor

 

oin Dae$ Dec .//A

ocaion$

<angalore:ndia

Poss$ /

ood ,nswers$ 0

 Re: Fault Current gone wrong/01/1./0/ 0$/0 ,M

Dear Mr9 Fell%shor:

reKues %ou o gi!e he deailed s)ecificaion and a))licaion of he s%se#

curren: load a))licaion5 wheher using for infrasrucure1 ndusr%5%)e66 saor winding5indi!idual generaor61 i#)edance of roor: wha is he e&cia

%ou see if reall% wan a correc answer %ou ha!e o *e !er% !er% s)ecific an

gi!e he elecrical sche#aic for clear clarificaion9

Regards

Regiser o Re)l%

+ell%shor

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,ci!e Conri*uor

oin Dae$ an ./0/

Poss$ 04

 Re: Fault Current gone wrong/01/1./0/ 0/$0/ ,M

M% a)ologies for he lac+ of infor#aion9 wish could )os so#e )ics of #

reacances are 900A4 &''d )u: 90/4 &'d )u and #% (ero seKuence is 9//09sc 8) and .A4B, sc slg9 The !olage for hese unis are 4/ and 0//rraing of 80.39 ,ll #% eKui)#en is wihin reall% close )ro&i#i%9 These are

cener9 M% hor Circui Raio$ /94 : aor Resisance /9//0. Oh#s: "ie

The generaors are Diesel: and*% conneced series sar9E&ciaion !olage$ 0.9A olsL no load 3.928 ols L full load 

E&ciaion curren 090A ,#)sL no load 89AA ,#)s L full load

Than+s for he ad!ice afer #% )os reali(ed had a serious lac+ of infor#

Regiser o Re)l%

)wr.he)eo)le

uru

oin Dae$ ,ug .//2

ocaion$ Ohio ,

Poss$ 322

ood ,nswers$ 3A

 Re: Fault Current gone wrong/01/1./0/ B$/8 PM

Fell%:

The +ic+er here is ha %ou are generaing a 4/ and connecing he gene

disri*uion s%se#9 Gou don' ha!e a ransfor#er o cho+e he faul currenne& o he load: so %our i#)edance is li#ied o he saor9 Gour generaor

o!er 8+,: so he windings are large dia#eer9 ow !olage generaion also less o!erall saor i#)edance9 There's =us no where o soa+ u) ha faul c

ha!e a cou)le daa ceners on #% s%se# and deal wih si#ilar issues du)re% #uch li#ied o . o)ions$

• ,dd series reacors as rasa# suggess 5 nor#all% )u he# in he n

)hase *efore he sar connecion6: or

• Design he disri*uion s%se# for he calculaed faul curren 5as i

The relia*ili% reKuire#ens of daa ceners: )aricularl% *ac+u) daa cene

The owner's going o ha!e o *ie he *ulle and )ull ou he chec+*oo+ one

ood luc+9

Ton%

 JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ

E&)erience$ The +nowledge %ou gain =us ,"TER %ou needed i9

Regiser o Re)l%

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rasa#9s%a#sudin

Co##enaor

oin Dae$ Dec .//A

ocaion$ a+ara 0.08/ndonesia

Poss$ 2B

ood ,nswers$ 0

 Re: Fault Current gone wrong

/01/A1./0/ 0$04 ,M

Dear Fell%shor:

agree wih Mr9 Pwr.he)eo)le co##ens: and now gi!e %ou !er% si#relaion *eween reacor si(ing and allowa*le !olage dro)9

This si#)le calculaion is o esi#ae he reacor i#)edance si(e and !ofaul le!el9

"or e&a#)le we wan o ge ./ +, 9C faul le!el: wih he following *a4/ 9

>d /900A4 )u: 'd /90/49

sc 8 )hase curren 80.31/900A4 .B902 +, 5%our calculaion resul

#ore )recise han #% calculaion69

G is reacor i#)edance ha a# loo+ing for9

./ +, 80.315/900A4 G6

G 580.3 Q .861.//// /9/8B3 )u9

dro) in )u /9/8B3 & 54/14/6 /9/8B3 )u

dro) /9/8B3 & 4/ 029BA ol9

s he !olage dro) acce)ed in %our s%se#;

Gou #enioned he FM: in #% o)inion FM is he sofware ha can *e

add reacor in %our calculaion9 How reacor i#)edance !alue %ou are loallowa*le !olage dro) in %our s%se#9

Regards:

 JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJRM Elec )ecialis

Regiser o Re)l%

#o+a#el

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Re$ "aul Curren gone wrong/01/A1./0/ 3$/4 ,M

rasa#9s%a#sudinCo##enaor

oin Dae$ Dec .//A

ocaion$ a+ara 0.08/

ndonesia

Poss$ 2B

ood ,nswers$ 0

 Re: Fault Current Gone Wrong/01/A1./0/ B$/3 ,M

Dear Mo+a#el:

orr% canno see and read %our re)l%9 Can %ou ell #e wh%;

Regards

 JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJRM Elec )ecialis

Regiser o Re)l%

8

,non%#ousPoser

 Re: Fault Current Gone Wrong/01/A1./0/ B$0A ,M

Dear Rasa#:

he echnical daa for generaor as Kellytsort #enion$

>d /900A4 )u: P.93M7: 4/ !ol: )ower facor/9

he raed full load curren for each generaor.3//150928. & /94 & /9 6

he conri*uion fro# each generaor in case of shor circui on

he #ain *us 823A1/900A4 8094 +, 5as wors condiion69

oal shor circui due o 3 generaors 8094 & 3 03294 +,9

o reduce his accu#ulai!e shor circui curren: i sugges secionali(ing h

8/20/2019 Short Ckt Calc Discussion

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follow$

0- secion@0 conneced wih . generaors9

.- secion@. 5he #iddle6 conneced wih 0 generaor9

8- secion@8 conneced wih . generaors9

hen connec a series reacor *eween secion@0 and secion@.: and conne

*eween secion@. and secion@89

in his case he shor circui curren on secion@0 . & 8094 B.9AB+,: asecion@09

o ge he sa#e !alue of shor circui curren on secion@.:

he !alue of series reacor is 893i#es >d 893 & /900A4 /9402A )u:

*ase /9/282. oh#9 5series reacor6 /9/. #H

5!int$/9.3501>d6501/93>dseries reacor6: o ge he sa#e C !alue o

- No !olage dro) )ro*le#s on secions: e&ciaion s%se# will co#)ensae!olage dro) )ro*le# sill )resen sud% o i#)ro!e )ower facor9

- . series recors used onl% 5 No 3 series reacor6

- he series reacors are air-core %)e which:

SNo sauraion under shor circui condiion9

Sow losses9

Song life i#e9

S#ainenance free9

Regards:

Moha##ed F9

ar AL#!andasa inernaional consulanc% grou)9

Regiser o Re)l%Good Answer $Score %&

No #ore ood

rasa#9s%a#sudin

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Co##enaor

oin Dae$ Dec .//A

ocaion$ a+ara 0.08/ndonesia

Poss$ 2B

ood ,nswers$ 0

 Re: Fault Current Gone Wrong/01/A1./0/ 00$30 ,M

Dear ues:

a))reciae for %our correcion for #% si#)le calculaion e!en *oh daPlease do no hesiae o correc #e9

09 "The rated full load current for each generator=2500/(1.!2 0.#$

n #% si#)le calculaion he generaor raing is 80.3,9

Each generaor )roduces .B02, sc 8): si#)le calculaion .B902 +, an

reali(e si#)le calculaion is no )recise: ohers;

.9 draw he D as shown a*o!e9 s ha correc D;

89 The *hort+c,rcu,t -alue ,n *ect,on 1 ,* 2 !1.#$ '9 a# no wih %oconri*uion curren fro# oher generaors are eli#inaed: e&ce) if he

and secion . o)ened9 ee D a*o!e9

<us si(ing shall consider he conri*uion shor-circui fro# oher shor-

load if here is an% #oor higher han 3/ h) or se!eral .3 HP #oors9 e&ised9

49 o -oltage dro) )role* on *ect,on* ec,tat,on **te w,ll co)en-oltage dro) )role *t,ll )re*ent *tud to ,)ro-e )ower factor 9

do no +now how #uch curren o *e reduced o #ee Mr Fell%shor

n selecing reacor si(ing a !olage dro) is li#iaion as one crieria9 f

an% i#)ac o he s%se# we can selec reacor easil%9

f i is handling *% e&ciaion %es agree: *u also i is has li#iaion: h

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infor# how high !olage can *e increased9 f he !olage increase: he and i is )ro)orionall% wih increasing shor-circui curren9

f 0 . off: i will *e su))lied fro# oher *uses: he wors case is a

o)inion we ha!e also o consider a !olage dro)9

<es regards:

 JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ

RM Elec )ecialis

Regiser o Re)l%

,non%#ousPoser

 Re: Fault Current Gone Wrong/010/1./0/ 4$.A ,M

Dear Rasa#:

Than+s for %our )assing o!er #% answer and han+s for %our carefull%

Kindly note he userna#e #o+a#el or gues are he sa#e )erson9

0- consider he !alue 80.3 ,#)s9 which: indicaed in Kellytsort #adaa for generaor is he seing !alue-as a generaor loading facor9 *u

generaor will ac wihou regarding o her#al )roecion s%se#s so:

full load ,#)s *ased on daa a!alia*le9 for #ore )recise calculaion i sheffec *u sud%ing sill under wors case9

.- Ges: %ou read houghs in #% #ind? ood9

8- ood for his noe: *u i consider when we selec shor circui raingshor circui which is B8+, we selec he ne& sandardi(ied !alue which

correc: and for clarificaions he oal eKui!alen su*ransien reacancis /9/3A2 )u and /9/384 )u wih res)ecing o %our noe: he firs !alu

!alue lead o 2/98+,9 as %ou now re!erse feding effec of #oor during res)ec o he !alue co##ing fro# generaors: also %ou can se re!ers

o a!oid his acion9

4- hin+ his )ro*le# of !olage dro) )resen when a reacor is conne

load: in #% )ro)osal a reacor conneced *eween loading secions and)erfor#ed o ge o)i#u# loading and o)i#u# sharing *eween secio

s%se# consrains which gi!e a reasona*le er#inal !olage9 he )erceas he )ercenage of er#inal !olage increasing9

n case of 0. off Ges: we should consider !olage dro) in his case:3 generaor o fed he loads: no wa% when wo generaors are off he a

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sud% o selec a !ial load on secion@0 o fed fro# secion@8 his can*eween he inco#ing circui *rea+er o secion@0 and ougoing circui

Regards:

Moha##ed F9

ar AL#!andasaCairo'(gy)t nernaional Consulanc% rou)

Regiser o Re)l%

+ell%shor

,ci!e Conri*uor

oin Dae$ an ./0/

Poss$ 04

 Re: Fault Current Gone Wrong/01001./0/ 0.$.B PM

Can' ge #% co##ens o show u) and #% las one was a Monda% co##e

go he 9/282.

Than+s again %ou gu%s are grea?

Regiser o Re)l%

+ell%shor

,ci!e Conri*uor

oin Dae$ an ./0/

Poss$ 04

 Re: Fault Current Gone Wrong/01001./0/ 0/$33 ,M

7ow han+ %ou so #uch?

, few Kuesions; 7h% is he !alue of he series reacor 893&'s ''d

How does one con!er o find *ase a 9/282. oh# and hen o ge 9/.#

co#)leel% undersand wh% we ha!e o no worr% a*ou !olage dro) *eca

Regiser o Re)l%

#o+a#elParici)an

oin Dae$ an ./0/

Poss$ 8

 Re: Fault Current Gone Wrong/010.1./0/ 0.$4/ PM

Dear Fell%shor:

8/20/2019 Short Ckt Calc Discussion

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reeings:

when %ou need o ge he shor circui on generaor er#inal *us: onl% di!i

curren *% ''d 5in )eruni !alue69scfull load generaor curren 1''d 9

eri*ation of tis e+uation as below:

sc)h 1''d + 10928.''d 5+,6 where: line !olage in !ol: )h )hase !oreacance in U9

*ase 5+6. 1M,: full load generaor curren5+,6 M,10928.+

''d5U6 ''d5)u6&*ase :sc  + 150928.''

d5)u6&*ase6 M, & + 150928.''

hence sc0928.+& full load generaor curren & + 150928.''d5)u6 & +.6

sc full load generaor curren 1''d5)u6 5+,6

in our case sud%

P .93M7: Powerfacor /9: M,5a))aren )ower6 P5M761Powerfacor

5M,6.931/9 890.3

*ase 5/946. 1890.3 /9/282. U9

series reacor5U6 893&/900A4&/9/282. /9/8/005U6

/9/8/00 .Vf 4 where: f freKuenc%5H(6: inducance5Henr%6

/9/8/0015.&8904&B/6 0928 WH9

f %ou anla%(e he int in #% re)l%@08 %ou will ge series reacor , 893 ''d9

Regards:

Moha##ed F9

Dar ,-HanadasahCairo'(gy)t nernaional Consulanc% rou)

Regiser o Re)l%Score 1 for Good Answer

ra#!inod

uru

 Re: Fault Current Gone Wrong/01081./0/ .$. PM

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oin Dae$ un .//2

ocaion$ chennai:ndia

Poss$ 348

ood ,nswers$ 03

ha!e co#e across si#ilar )ro*le# while designing he D ses for ofwa

nos ./// +,:488 ols and faul curren was wor+ing ou o *e 0/4 +,9

7ha ha!e done is Designed o o)erae onl% ses 0 . in )arallel as grou)arallel as grou)9e no 8 will *e sand *% for grou) 0 or grou).9 ha!e #a

onl% wo ses in grou) and grou) will o)erae in )arallel and feed o he loagrou)0 will o)erae9i#ilarl% in grou) . i will *e 4 3 or 84 or 83 will o)

n his #ehod shor circui curren will ge drasicall% reduced o 4. +, and<usduc:swichgear:swich*oards ec can *e designed for 3/ +, onl%9

Econo#icall% here will *e good sa!ing on ca)ial cos9

This is onl% suggesion9

Co##ens are welco#e9

 JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJRa#esh:"reelance Elecrical1auo#aion Consulan

Regiser o Re)l%

+ell%shor

,ci!e Conri*uor

oin Dae$ an ./0/

Poss$ 04

 Re: Fault Current Gone Wrong/01081./0/ 3$// PM

couldn' agree #ore ha is he answer: he onl% )ro*le# is a# he onl%

he good figh on his one *ecause ha!e so#e .03+, on #% single line ouse a high i#)edance s%se# *ecause i sounds so so scar% when i is acu

onl% -9//4 oh#s o ge #% sc 8) sc *ecause how can i *e #orecurrens are he sa#e;

Regiser o Re)l%

rasa#9s%a#sudin

Co##enaor

oin Dae$ Dec .//A

 Re: Fault Current Gone Wrong/01041./0/ 00$04 PM

Dear Fell%shor:

Gour clien refused using high i#)edance s%se# for reducing ground fa

ha!e %ou al+ed wih he# on low resisance grounding; f )ossi*le %ouscar% on HR or R 5low resisance grounding69

is no a suggesion: *u for infor#aion onl%9 The following are #% co

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ocaion$ a+ara 0.08/ndonesia

Poss$ 2B

ood ,nswers$ 0

resisance grounding$

09 Mos of hor circui faul are iniiaed *% ground faul9 The )ossi*ili

due o le!el !olage on he s%se# are he sa#e9

.9 The ground faul curren is li#ied o 4// , or 0/// ,9 Those !alues

raing9

89 CT *o&: neural ca*le and CT #igh *e *igger if we use resisance1

faul is eKual o ground faul curren9

a# as a !iewer a))reciaed o all of %ou ha alread% share he *es in

su*=ec: es)eciall% for Mr9 Mo+a#el9

7ih *es regards:

 JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJRM Elec )ecialis

Regiser o Re)l%

+ell%shor

,ci!e Conri*uor

oin Dae$ an ./0/

Poss$ 04

 Re: Fault Current Gone Wrong/01031./0/ A$32 ,M

Ges also )iched R as well and )re% #uch here hough )rocess w

correc he% wan he lowes i#)edance o ground )ossi*le9 o#e consare sic+ing o i no #aer wha9 <u ge his was a*le o con!ince hneural conducor longer and coil i u) inside he generaor and *race i

now all ha!e o do is calculae how #an% i#es need o wra) he coGou are )ro*a*l% hin+ing well ha is an i#)edance grounded s%se#:

)erce)ion9 ,n% houghs on coiling u) 5A6 ses of 3//+c#il conducorscould run a @0 around 0//f o ge 9//4 oh#s which would li#i #%

#% PE %e and i isn' #% sa#) he one who is sa#)ing i refuses9

Regiser o Re)l%

Regiser o Re)l%

neresed in his o)ic; <% =oining CR4 %ou can >su*scri*e> o

his discussion and recei!e noificaion when new co##ens are addedoin CR4: The Engineer's Place for News and Discussion?

Comments rated to be Good Answers:These co##ens recei!ed enough )osii!e raings o #a+e he# >good answers>9

• @08 >Re: Fault Current Gone Wrong> *% ,non%#ous Poser on /01/A1./0/ B$0A ,M 5score

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:Chec+ ou hese co##ens ha don' %e ha!e enough !oes o *e >official> good answers and: if %ou agree wih h

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• @8 >Re: Fault Current gone wrong> *% rasa#9s%a#sudin on /01/21./0/ B$42 PM 5score 06

• @0 >Re: Fault Current Gone Wrong> *% #o+a#el on /010.1./0/ 0.$4/ PM 5score 06

Co)% o Cli)*oard

sers who )osed co##ens$,non%#ous Poser 586X h+ian 506X =ose)h

sihole 506X +ell%shor 5B6X #o+a#el 5.6X )wr.he)eo)le 506X ra#!inod 506Xrasa#9s%a#sudin 536X

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Gou #igh *e ineresed in$ "aul Deecors and Recorders: "i*er O)ic "aul ocaors: round "au

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,ll i#es are dis)la%ed in 1Easern 5EDT6 5Regiser o change i#e (one6

Y ./03 H9 ,ll righs reser!ed9 Re)roducion in whole or in )ar wihou )er#ission is )rohi*ied9 The infor#aion and is )ro!ided for infor#aion )ur)oses onl% and does no consiue ad!ice9 ,n% !iews or o)inions e&)ressed *% ure)resen he !iews or o)inions of H9 Gou should chec+ an% infor#aion and use %our own =udg#en or see+ e&)e

an%hing on he *asis of wha %ou read here9 H does no !erif% or warran he accurac% or co#)leeness of an% in)er#ied *% law: H shall no *e lia*le for an% loss: da#age or e&)ense incurred *% reliance on i or for an% dealin)aries ha a+e )lace using or faciliaed *% his sie9