Seymour Hersh, The Knights of Malta, And Me

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eymour ers , e n g s o a a, anmePosted By Blake Hounshell Friday, January 21, 2011 - 3:58 PM Share




5/18

Since my write-up of Seymour Hersh's talk is getting some coverage today, and many commenters

have written in to dispute my post, I thought I should provide a little more context.

More than a few readers, including Salon's Glenn Greenwald, complained that I hadn't rebutted Hersh's

arguments. That wasn't my intention -- I was relaying what Hersh said. I did make two editorialcomments: that his speech was a "rambling, conspiracy-laden diatribe" and that it "quickly went

downhill" after its opening line. But I imagine that when most reasonable people read the transcript -- I

don't have a video, unfortunately -- they will see what I'm talking about. As far as I know, nobody,

including Hersh, is disputing my quotes.

I thought it was self-evident that several points Hersh made were off-base and conspiratorial, but

perhaps it's worth spelling things out for everyone.

1. The idea that "we're gonna change mosques into cathedrals" is "an attitude that pervades a

large percentage of the Joint Special Operations Command." This is essentially unverifiable unless

you do a survey of JSOC personnel. Good luck with that. For now, the weight of evidence suggests that

JSOC is on the whole a highly competent and professional organization that has no intention of

converting Muslims to Christianity around the world. If it were otherwise, I'm sure we'd be hearing about

it from others besides Seymour Hersh.

2. Retired General Stanley McChrystal, who headed JSOC before briefly becoming the top U.S.

commander in Afghanistan, and his successor, Vice Adm. William McRaven, as well as many

within JSOC, "are all members of, or at least supporters of, Knights of Malta. Many of them are

members of Opus Dei." McChrystal has already denied being a member of Knights of Malta; McRaven

and JSOC have thus far declined to comment. But so what if they were? Everything I've seen tells me




6/18

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that the Knights of Malta are a public service organization, not some kind of Catholic extremist

group. And Opus Dei is hardly the secretive cabal of ruthless assassins depicted in The Da Vinci Code.

It has a Facebook page.

3. "They do see what they're doing -- and this is not an atypical attitude among some military --

it's a crusade, literally. They see themselves as the protectors of the Christians. They'reprotecting them from the Muslims [as in] the 13th century. And this is their function." I have no

doubt that many in the U.S. military are religious, and yes, I've heard about Jerry Boykin, Erik Prince,

and those rifle scopes. But the plural of anecdote is not data -- and acknowledging there are devout

Christians in the military and implying that top military leaders are embarking on a "crusade" against

Muslims are two very different things. "Zealotry is viewed as being unprofessional [in the SF

community]," former Special Forces officer Kalev Sepp told Stars and Stripes. "Anyone who professes

religion in an open way like that is suspect to where their real loyalties lie." (Do I really need to explain

this?)

4. "They have little insignias, these coins they pass among each other, which are crusader coins.

They have insignia that reflect the whole notion that this is a culture war." I believe Hersh is

referring here to challenge coins, a common sight across the U.S. military. They seem pretty innocuous

to me.

There's a lot more, but you get the idea. So I'm going to go out on a limb here and just say it: Odds are

good that JSOC is not being overrun by Catholic fanatics.

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MARY2002

5:11 PM ET

January 21, 2011

I'm mostly at a loss as to

I'm mostly at a loss as to what you think this adds?

I know that the Bush/Obama GWOT has generated lots of rambling

conspiracy theories. There was one for a long time about how thisGerman citizen was imprisoned in his hotel room in Macedonia andafter abuse there was shipped off to a (you're gonna love this) "blacksite" prison run by the (seriously - this is laugh out loud, these crazyconspiracy KooKs) C I A.

Yeah, right. Oh, and they claimed that BOEING had a subsidiaryinvolved in all this. You know "torture flights" Cue the eewwwweeeeeee ewwwww scarey music. It gets even more ridiculous. Theysay this guy was picked up bc he had the wrong name (com'on, likeyou said about JSOC, there's just no evidence we have that kind ofslackjawed idiots at CIA) and that it took them months to figure out

they had the wrong guy. I mean, get real. Obviously if anything likethat had happened, the Presiden would have fired people and therewould be criminal prosecutions here in the US and apologies and thecountries that hosted those "black sites" would be sending people toprison too.

I mean, these conspiracy nuts act like we having had to spend allkinds of time and effort with investigations that just keep telling them,over and over, that no one did anything wrong and that crazyGerman guy is an idiot. I mean Boeing - torture flights - seriously?Get real. It's gotten so bad that there's some nutty group of French-Canadians who have been pretending that our ex-DAG signed off onand arranged for the shipment of this Al Qaeda General - guy named

Maher Arar - to torture. I mean, sure, Pepsico never claimed it wouldlike to buy the world a Coke, but still, it's not like they'd hire a guywho signed off on sending a Canadian off to be tortured in Syria. Asif.

Then there was that crazy story about our good friend in Afghanistan,Gen Dostum, and these shipping containers and how Bush andObama let him return and return to the "site" of this so-called "crime"and destroy evidence and things. Yikes - people are just nuts.

Then there's that nutcase in Italy who made all those claims about abig conspiracy to kidnap some guy there and cart him off to torutre.Sheez. And as if that wasn't enough, you had the Boys from Brusselsmoving SWIFT offices over some half baked conspiracy claims - getthis, they said that the US was just using made up stuff they werecalling administrative warrants to waltz in and take any financial infothey wanted with no oversight. I mean com'on, that wouldn't last aminute, right? No need to get all huffy and have European privacycourt hearings and move and stuff.

Between you and me, Blake, the whackos have taken over thecountry. I mean, at some point I'm even betting that some of themare going to start questioning perfecly plausible stories aboutpregnant women, tied up and killed by those ghastly Muslims duringfamily naming celebrations and pretending that the highly competent

and professional JSOC would go into a home, kill a districtprosecutor and local police chief along with the two pregnant womenand that they would even, in some kind of highly competent andprofessional fashion, carve those dead women up for the bullets.




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But even so Blake, can't you do a bit better on shooting Hersh downthan just saying that General Boykin's actions have only beendescribed by anecdote. I mean, sure, your source points out thatbeing a religious zealot (who typically would rather kill than convertfwiw) might cap someone's career so that, you know, they might onlyrise tot he level of Wm Boykin, but surely you can do better?

Sending ya the love, brother.

MARY2002

5:50 PM ET

January 21, 2011

I just had to add - it's not

I just had to add - it's not even just the reaction to the GWOT. Thesenut cases have been at it for a lot longer. I mean, in our GWODrugs,they have even suggested that the CIA was linked to the shoot-downof a small plane carrying an American missionary husband and wifeand their two children and, get this, that the CIA played a role in the

death of the woman and her infant child by targeting their plane to bedestroyed.

And now, a good and solid patriot named Jon Burge is beingsentenced to FIFTY FOUR months- all because some kooks say helied about torturing people. As if he could sit there in his capacity aspolice chief and run a gang of torturers out of his office and sit outinvestigations without ever being caught until after the statute oflimitations had run.

Sheez louise - amazing that people think when there's a bad agenda,there will be cover up.

KARINDRYAN

12:43 PM ET

January 23, 2011

Daily Show might be hiring

Awesome satire, keep it up...amazing what passes foreditorial judgment these days. Consider the source. Hersh hasuncovered some of the worst US abuses in Vietnam, AbuGhraib, etc. Hard to assail his cred on these issues. I guesspainting him as paranoid is the best they can do.

MATT CARMODY

1:42 AM ET

January 22, 2011

Air Force Academy anyone?

As far as the military being impervious to the fanatical religious right,hasn't anyone read about the atmosphere at Colorado Springs thatforces cadets to proclaim their undying devotion to jesus in order toremain above suspicion at that institution?

There may not be reams of verifiable data available to prove that

there's a crusader mentality in the military, but the fact that Boykinwasn't reprimanded after his remarks while Bush was in office andthe fact that the only proactive actions the Obama administration hasundertaken is in investigating and persecuting gay service members,

FO

A

SE

11




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we could certainly use a helluva lot more civilian oversight of themilitary, and not from Bob Gates.

MATT CARMODY

1:43 AM ETJanuary 22, 2011

And, btw

There's no one I'd rather go downhill on this ride with than Sy Hersh.

MERCURY

6:41 AM ET

January 22, 2011

Seymour Hersh

This is the report of speech as reported by the Gulf Times. Notice nomention of 'Conspiracy Theories'

US foreign policy and the lack of change to come about during the

first two years of Barack Obamas presidency were the focus of thelatest in Georgetowns distinguished lecture series last night, whenworld famous investigative journalist, Seymour Hersh expressed hisshock at the inaction of an administration that promised to changethe nations outward policies especially in the Middle East.Referring to conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq, tensions with Pakistanand Iran and various other issues related to the region, Hersh arguedthat Obamas administration has failed to advance from the Bushyears.?The Pulitzer Prize winner, who broke the story of the massacre at MyLai, spoke about religious tensions affecting foreign policy, statingthat a prevalence of anti-Islamic sentiment has led to many US armyofficials believing themselves to be on some sort of crusade.?

Citing numerous examples of US generals and various other officials,Hersh spoke of their religious beliefs, and argued that they have setback the concept of religious tolerance by centuries through theiractions.Hersh explained that he is currently working on a book about formervice-president, Dick Cheney, and spoke about the Bush/Cheneyyears, arguing that the administration witnessed 8 or 9 neo-conservatist wackos that took over the government.?What worried Hersh the most, he explained, was the ease with whichthey were able to do so; what disappoints him the most, is the factthat little has altered with the change of administration.Torture in Afghanistan, assassination missions in Pakistan, and thecontinued support of an Israeli regime with questionable intentionsare all serious issues that have yet to be significantly addressed byObama according to Hersh, who pointed out possible routes for thepresident which he hopes but doubts he will follow in the future.Hersh also expressed concerns about Israel and the shift to the rightrepresented by the new political appointments in their government.With more hawkish and right-wing Israeli politicians replacing or inthe process of replacing outgoing officials, Hersh worries about whatthe future may hold.He also expressed concerns about Israels lack of willingness to dealwith Fatah, even after being offered the deal of their dreams.Referring to Afghanistan, Hersh spoke of Mullah Omar, andexpressed his belief that the US must enter into a dialogue with him if

they wish to get out of the country in the foreseeable future.Arguing that there are no national security concerns related to the USinvolvement in Afghanistan, he urged Obama to withdraw from thecountry as soon as possible to avoid any more loss of life in the




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drawn out conflict.There is a way out, he suggested, referring to Omar, adding butwere not going to take it.Hersh also expressed his concerns about developments in Iraq, andstated his belief that Iraqis would rather burn their oil than see it goto the US.Recent developments in Tunisia were also a focus of Hershs

speech, during which he opined that the events there will scare thehell out of other leaders in the region.Countries experiencing economic distress could well witness similarpolitical action, he argued.Looking to leaders in the region, he argued that the current systemhas seen many rulers clutching on to power by appeasing the USand providing them with natural resources.They know they are allowed to continue their despotic waysbecause we are here to back them up, he said, adding that leadersin the region effectively stay in power because we (the US) get whatwe want.Hersh has long been known as a controversial journalist, but hisconviction in his beliefs was plain to hear during his presentation

yesterday, and it is this conviction and that of other journalists, heargued, that will help bring information and power to the Arab world.We dont always look at ourselves in ways we should, he argued,adding that the US has created a legacy that will be very hard to payoff.Describing himself as shocked and appalled at Obamas apparentlack of desire to change the situation he found thrust upon him whenhe entered the White House, Hersh did offer one crumb of comfort albeit a wishful one.He argued that Obama may be biding his time, ensuring that he winsre-election before becoming more like the Abraham Lincoln stylePresident we hoped he would be.?Hersh suggested that Obama may well be waiting before deliveringon the promises he made upon entering the White House, butadmitted his concern, conceding: Im very sceptical.

AUGUST WEST

1:01 PM ET

January 22, 2011

Military Religious Freedom Foundation

Check out its website at http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/ ifyou think the military, especially the Air Force, doesn't have aproblem with religious fanaticism. The founder, Michael Weinstein, isan Air Force Academy graduate, as is his son. He is ex-JAG, so he

knows something about the law.

The Air Force has already admitted it has a problem with "Christian"extremism and fanaticism. Hersh's claims thus seem to be in linewith this admission.

HURRICANEWARNING

1:50 PM ET

January 22, 2011

Wow. I have literally read

Wow. I have literally read ZERO reasonable comments on here so

far...ZERO. The man is not after you. Just because there are somereligious crazies in uniform does not mean that they are the majority,or that it is policy...they are not, it is not. Please, please...stop! Atsome point you have to realize that the government/ military/ CIA




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whatever, is just a collection of human beings. They are different inbelief, culture, race, education, and background...and they arefallible. Get over it. Hersh is just an angry liberal, and I am noconservative, but you guys blindly supporting him is just funny.

INCOMPETENT

FIELD GRADE

8:02 PM ET

January 23, 2011

Amen, dude, amen

And I mean that in a non-ironic way. Folks are too quick to seevast conspiracies behind issues they don't like, rather than all-too fallible human beings trying to do the best they can withlimited information and time.

VERBATIM

1:55 PM ET

January 22, 2011

A little more context?

Why is it that explaining it by more context only points at theclumsiness of the original writing? Perhaps because of the rambling?

SAWADEE

7:59 PM ET

January 22, 2011

Oh! Well...they said tha they are not!

Well! That's good enough for me!

If they said that they are not in some grand conspiracy then I guessthat's the last word on that one.

Thanks for clearing that up for us.

NIC37R

8:03 AM ET

January 23, 2011

Curious assumptions

I'm curious as to how Blake Hounshell knew Hersh's "arm perchedjauntily on the podium" when he claims not to have an available

video of Hersh's talk and is relying solely on a recording. Perhapssomeone who was actually there, told him Hersh's arm was perched"jauntily" on the podium. Which makes it hearsay.

THINKWT

11:32 AM ET

January 23, 2011

Down hill from here

Pack your stuff. off to info wars for you. You broke the 24thcommandment "thou shalt not make any speculation nor givecreedance to speculationers" (o thats right only the Knights have

access to that secret text) lol, strike one. Violated the nationalistplaybook by you mentioning the military without saying "our heros"




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strike two. then you readdressed it and made it even better strikethree your outahere.

MONDONUEVO

11:45 AM ETJanuary 23, 2011

What did David Kay mean

when he said in his testimony about looking for WMDs in Iraq:

KAY: It's really what goes to the heart of the integrity of our ownprocess. I generally believe that it's important to acknowledge failure.

I also think we've got enough history to understand that closedorders and secret societies, whether they be religious orgovernmental, are the groups that have the hardest time reformingthemselves in the face of failure without outside input.

I must say my personal view -- and it's purely personal -- is that inthis case, it will -- you will finally determine that it is going to take an

outside inquiry both to do it and to give yourself and the Americanpeople the confidence that you have done it.

from:Dr David Kay's Testimony to the Senate Armed Services Committeehttp://globalresearch.ca/articles/KAY401A.html

Mr. Hounshell seems to think that logically fallacious arguments suchas ad hominem attacks , appeals to authority, and appeals topopularity should carry some weight among readers of ForeignPolicy, as distinguished from viewers of Fox News. Hopefully thatassumption is incorrect.

Hhere's a repost from the previous thread, to show there is evidenceof such a religion-based organization in our national securityorganizations:

(Excerpts from an old Covert Action Quarterly article athttp://www.mosquitonet.com/~prewett/caqsmom25.1.html)

"...Representing initially the most powerful and reactionary segmentsof the European aristocracy, for nearly a thousand years beginningwith the early crusades of the Twelfth Century, it has organized,funded, and led military operations against states and ideas deemedthreatening to its power. It is probably safe to say that the several

thousand Knights of SMOM, principally in Europe, North, Central,and South America, comprise the largest most consistently powerfuland reactionary membership of any organization in the world today....

Although an exclusively [Roman] Catholic organization, in thiscentury it has collaborated with, and given high awards to non-Catholic extremists in its current crusade against progressive forcesin the West, the national liberation movements, and the socialistcountries...

...SMOM's influence in Germany survived World War II intact. OnNovember 17, 1948 SMOM awarded one of its highest honors, theGrand Cross of Merit, to Reinhard Gehlen, the Nazi chief of

intelligence on the Soviet front. He was subsequently installed by theAmericans as the first chief of West Germany's equivalent of the CIA,the Bundesnachtrichtdienst (BND: federal secret service), underWest German Chancellor Adenauer, a devout Catholic who had




14/18

received the Magistral Grand Cross personally from SMOM GrandMaster Prince Chigi...

...In addition to Casey, and James Buckley, its current members, orKnights, after the feudal fashion, include Lee Iacocca, John McCone,William Buckley, Alexander Haig, Alexandre de Marenches (the chiefof French Intelligence under Giscard d'Estaing, himself a Knight ofSMOM), Otto von Hapsburg, and various leaders of the fascist P-2Masonic lodge in Italy. While its organizational funding is relativelymodest, its leverage is maximized by the presence of its Knights inkey positions in other private and governmental structures throughoutthe world...

...After the appointment of Knight of Malta William Casey as head ofthe Central Intelligence Agency, and another Knight, James Buckley,as head ot U.S. propaganda against Eastern Europe at Radio FreeEurope/Radio Liberty, several historians noted with interest PresidentReagan's call during the summer of 1982 for a "crusade" against the"Evil Empire" in Eastern Europe...

...The President of the American Eastern Association of SMOM is J.Peter Grace, President of W.R. Grace Company, who was a keyfigure in Operation Paperclip, which brought Nazi scientists to theU.S. "

YOGI-ONE

1:28 PM ET

January 23, 2011

Informal Hersch

This is kind of informal. Hersch has some really good analyses outthere. But it shows how the man thinks, which is good.

His written analyses hang together better, and have verifiable linksand footnotes. Here I think you can't blame him for that because thisseems really off-the-cuff.

There is a problem with over-zealous Christians in the military, butmy opinion is that it is probably not, statistically speaking, any greaterthan the problem we have with over-zealous Christians in civiliansociety in the US.

Muslim-paranoia is real in the US, and it creates a correspondingChristian-paranoia among American Muslims. I think that's a thing weshould all be aware of and all work to eradicate within ourselves.

I believe the right way to deal with terrorism is to treat it as a crimeand to use crime-fighting technologies to deal with it. Therefore wecan take the religious affiliation out of the designation of someone asa terrorist, and instead judge them by whether they have committed,or have conspired to commit, acts of terrorism regardless of theirreligious affiliation. But I digress.

The main thing I notice about Hersch is he continually asks aquestion I myself continually ask and never get solid answers for:why, in 2011, are we still in AfPak? What are we trying to accomplishthere, besides some vague notion that has something to do withGWOT or possibly American-empire fantasies? What is the actualthreat to the USA? Is it energy? Is this a part of what has been calledthe Pipelinistan wars?




15/18

Why are we there? Because GE and Raytheon, and yes, Boeing,need ever renewing weapons contracts to keep the military-industrial-political complex afloat?

By now it's common wisdom that Obama doesn't consider any of hiscampaign promises binding, but no other politican does either, sothat's really not a surprise.

SUBVERSIVEMIKE

10:26 PM ET

January 23, 2011

Read Jeff Sharlet's The Family

To better understand what Hersh is talking about, folks need to readJeff Sharlet's The Family: The Secret Fundamentalism at the Heartof American Power.

While Hounshell may be right that Hersh rambled; Hounshell iswrong to assume that the type of Christian fundies Hersh speaks of

want to convert Muslims. They don't want to convert, they want torule.

- mike

WATSON

12:22 AM ET

January 24, 2011

With God on our side

* No one is claiming that the Knights of Malta or Opus Dei run ourmilitary; however its clear that people who share the reactionary,

magical beliefs of those organizations have significant influence inour command structure.

* Its undeniable that the clash-of-civilizations, Islam-is-a-gutter-religion perspective is a substantial pillar of the political support forour war policy.

* The allegation of religious influence in our war making is not refutedby the fact that our boots-on-the-ground COIN warriors in Af/Pakquickly realize that a West-is-best, come-to-Jesus approach will notbe helpful in their work.

* The larger point is that anyone who claims to be on a mission from

God has descended to the intellectual and moral level of bin Ladenand Ahmadinejad, and the war on terror will be a futile scam as longas the USA establishment continues to legitimize that type ofthinking.

DOMNULEDOCTOR

2:42 PM ET

January 24, 2011

Read SyHersh rather than watch. His final product is in

writing!

I recommend listening to hundreds of hours of Sy Hersh videos andaudios. What comes out is how inarticulate he is, VERBALLY. Thishas been the case since the 1970s. Hersh is a WRITER, not aspeaker. And more so, Hersh has been diving into the depths of that




16/18

cesspool we call the Pentagon for decades. Everything that floatstherein has sought to get into his head. Yet, his record as a journalisthas yet to me matched. The mils half-wit PR guys, think that slickformat PowerPoints make up for their lack of rigorous expositoryabilities, so they are the LAST who can speak about Hersh's

journalistic abilities; the fact remains that if one looks at his reportingand "official" reaction to it since My Lai, one notes an informative

consistency on his part and just plain bad lying on that of his mil-critics. What's worse, as in battle, they like uneven odds. So theyswarm him with mantras such as the current brouhaha.

Right now, the cathedrals/mosques issue is a dying ember. Petraeusand his Peanut Gallery of "experts" cannot turn an old mare into arace horse. We are losing, just as Hersh predicted from the start andfor the reasons he gave. He does NOT make-up quotes and he multi-checks the leads he usesTHAT is the basis of his consistent bullseyes. An awful lot of serious students of the US military have beenconfirming what he wrote so quoting him as ranting just won't makehim irrelevant. I think he is much more of a reliable correspondentthan let us say Peter Berger who has now joined the Petraeus

Peanut Gallery. Berger indeed rants, as can be seen from videos ofhis debates performance:

http://intelligencesquaredus.org/index.php/past-debates/afghanistan/#dm-col-a

Yet I don't see the unformed services' uniformed thinking criticize himfor Bergers hyperbolic BS. Nor do I see DoD darlings like Kilcullenand others like him chewed up for occasional outbursts. The lastdouse was passed over with an undeserved apology.

Lastly, no one journalistic source is a "this is it" Biblical Prophet. Afterall, they depend on what others say, and though generally lacking at

the Pentagon, the CIA is full of skilled Pied Pipers that can line up"investigative" journalists, leading them all to drown professionally inrivers of official propaganda. Each of us should remember the storiesRummy's team filled the media pages with and know that the potcalling the kettle black is nothing new. Our duty is to search out truthfor ourselves from every possible source rather than, as Nir Rosenput it, let ourselves be fooled by opinion spewing Petraeus PeanutGallery "experts" taken on "baby sitting tours" as honored luminaries.

America is drowning in deceptive advertisement from corporatecannibals of all sorts seeking their thinning share of the declininggolden eggs that taxpaying geese lay. We're a broke nation and the

military is just another self-serving estate in our regime trying tomaintain its massive budget. Nevertheless, every decade of so, thenaked generals with no uniforms become visible. Hersh is one manalone taking on BS tsunamis to expose the invisible nakedness of thegenerals and he's got quite a record of saving truths from war toprove it. They say that truth is the first casualty in war and throughnumerous wars, small and big, Hersh has tirelessly laboredresponsibly to salvage as many truths as possible. While thePentagon's record is stamped "secret" to cover-up utter imbecility,Hersh's work can only operate in full exposure. Americans preferviewing video than reading; in the Hersh case reading is worth theeffort to get at what is his real work. It will only then be clear that heearned all his awards trying to get truth to people. It has been a

thankless job for he sought to expose the most fundamental traits ofour military-first solutions that repeatedly got us defeated. So READHERSH before you judge him and stop with all this sidelining. Unlikethe Pentagon, he is truly an open book.




17/18

VERBATIM

4:39 PM ET

January 24, 2011

Read Sy...

Reading is too hard, all those words and no "pitchures"....

NORWEGIANSHOOTER

3:59 PM ET

January 24, 2011

Another data point for Hounshell

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2009/05/0082488Jesus killed Mohammed: The crusade for a Christian military.

"Odds are good that JSOC is not being overrun by Catholic fanatics." Did Hersh say that it was? You are the one projecting conspiracytheory on his words.

As for your data point, "one former Green Beret and defense official"

dismissing Hersh in a "Department of Defense authorized newsoutlet", well, of course a conspirator is going to say that! oops.

DOMNULEDOCTOR

9:17 PM ET

January 24, 2011

Get the mesenger because the message is us the Four

Stars!

What's scary is that after Vietnam blew all the hot air out of Pentagonofficers, Wall street advertised that it would pay $billions for militarytype aggressiveness so long as it emanates from cognitively hot

brains. And so, all our Napoleons went to Wall Street and West Pointgot the crippled class of '76, the one taking something of an "openbook" exam on the engineering final. At that time, the academieswere taking what they could get. Invariably, Tom Rocks blamed theoutput on the academies and called for closing them down. But truthis that quality control was sacrificed for warm bodies. Americanshave been able to say: "Ain't my kid going to war," so they provedmost tolerant of and generous with the academies' products incommand. So long as there's a Four-Stars ready to take command ofan "off budget" war, Mr. & Mrs. America could continue to buy realestate for profit without worrying about another Air alQaeda mediaevent like 9/11. And so we had a whole bunch of Four-Stars likeKeane, Petraeus, McChrystal....who thought that ballsy BS wouldassure them a spectacular post military retirement career. The trickwas to pass off to Congress a dead chicken as a gracefullyswimming swan. Hersh, having seen the Mekong River clotted withfloating dead chickens screamed at us: it's a replay of all the craziestparts of that whole experience! He devoted his life to trying to standon his feet and shout "Fire! Fire! Fire!" as the military's carelessforest crown fire was coming at us. Hersh's works are now adocumentary part of American history. And, as during Vietnam, thesmall minded guys who can't see the big picture hate him. Exceptthat now he's more desperate for he's screaming that the arsonistsare setting the fire in the same way as they did in the 1970s whenthey almost burned down the house. I can sure empathize with his

frantic sense of despair at the sight of missing cerebral circuits at thePentagon causing command personnel to repeat the worst errors ofthe past. And, given their limitations, I perfectly well understand whysuch slanderous crap is all they can come up with in retort!




18/18

GRANT

10:10 AM ET

January 25, 2011

I find it incredibly amusing

I find it incredibly amusing that a large number of the comments I'veseen over the past few days have all attacked the writers withouteven bothering to investigate whether or not Mr. Hersh had saidthose things*. Doing good work in 1969 and 2004 does not makesomeone immune to criticism, nor should we automatically leap to

their defense without looking at the situation. I have no idea whetherhe believes it or if old age is starting to take its toll but if he is arguingthat a charity organization is involved in efforts to suborn the U.Smilitary then I think we should be a bit more cautious when we listento him.

*As a note, I actually started looking around to see if this was true ornot (something that apparently none of the responders thought theyshould do). By now it's been confirmed that yes, he did indeed makethose statements.

NORWEGIANSHOOTER

11:43 AM ET

January 25, 2011

I find it puzzling that you don't get it

"if he is arguing that a charity organization is involved in effortsto suborn the U.S military"

He's not. He's saying that the US decided to invade Muslimcountries and that there are members of the US military whohave an extra source of pride in killing Muslims beyonddefeating an insurgency. You might have read what he said,but your comprehension, like Hounshell's, is lacking.

CLYDE H STAGNER

1:45 PM ET

January 28, 2011

Military Societies

enerals Shepard,del Valle,Byers,Willoughby,Lord Malcolm Douglas-Hamolton,,Marquis de Amodio,Admirals Sir BarryDomville,Baker,Porter,Howard,Spellman and many others wereespecially qualified Knights of Malta selected by the SupremeCouncil to serve on the ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE of the

Sovereign Order of Saint John of Jerusalem as shown on page103,"The Captain's Polygraph" ISBN 978-142690310-6. TheaboveKnights have been singled out for their brilliant and outstandingcareers as Soldiers of Christ****.Retired regular military officers aresubject to Courts Martial until death. Politically,retirements havemostly been allowed. Let Seymour Hersh have his say beforecondemnation.


Seymour Hersh, The Knights of Malta, And Me

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