Quick Ways to Extract False Statements From Children 10-10-2007

Extracting False StatementsExtracting False StatementsFrom Child Witnesses....From Child Witnesses....

Fast!Fast!

James M. WoodJames M. WoodUniversity of Texas at El PasoUniversity of Texas at El Paso

(UTEP)(UTEP)

Thanks to Co-AuthorsThanks to Co-Authors

Sena Garven, Ph.D.Sena Garven, Ph.D.Nadja Schreiber, Ph.D.Nadja Schreiber, Ph.D.F. James Billings, Ph.D.F. James Billings, Ph.D.

Lisa Velarde Bellah, Ph.D.Lisa Velarde Bellah, Ph.D.Yolanda Martinez, M.A.Yolanda Martinez, M.A.

Kristin McLaurin, M.A., J.D.Kristin McLaurin, M.A., J.D.Renata Strok, M.A.Renata Strok, M.A.James Burns, M.A.James Burns, M.A.Tanya Taylor, M.A.Tanya Taylor, M.A.

Witch HuntsWitch Hunts

1980s1980s

“Satanic Panic”“Satanic Panic”

Repressed Memories Repressed Memories of Ritual Abuseof Ritual Abuse

Posttraumatic Stress Disorder Posttraumatic Stress Disorder and/or and/or

Multiple Personality DisorderMultiple Personality Disorder

Daycare Abuse CasesDaycare Abuse Cases

Little Skepticism During 1980sLittle Skepticism During 1980s

Why Would Children Why Would Children

Make UpMake Up

These Accusations?These Accusations?

"Children Don't Lie About Abuse“"Children Don't Lie About Abuse“

General Consensus:General Consensus:

Where There’s Smoke, There’s Fire. Where There’s Smoke, There’s Fire.

Late 1980s and early 1990s:Late 1980s and early 1990s:

Skeptics Began to AppearSkeptics Began to Appear

The Children Were The Children Were InducedInducedto Make False Statementsto Make False Statements

Focus on Focus on

Child Interviewing, Child Interviewing,

Child SuggestibilityChild Suggestibility

Steve Ceci, Maggie Bruck, & ColleaguesSteve Ceci, Maggie Bruck, & Colleagues

Mousetrap StudyMousetrap Study

Sam Stone StudySam Stone Study

Elizabeth Loftus, Ira Hyman,Elizabeth Loftus, Ira Hyman,James Billings, Stephen LindsayJames Billings, Stephen Lindsay

Punchbowl StudyPunchbowl Study

Lost in the Mall StudyLost in the Mall Study

Frog in the Desk StudyFrog in the Desk Study

By using By using suggestivenesssuggestiveness and and delaydelay

it is surprisingly easy to change.....it is surprisingly easy to change.....

-- Children's memory for recent events-- Children's memory for recent events

-- Adults' memory for childhood events-- Adults' memory for childhood events

Increased Plausibility Increased Plausibility

++

Mental ImageryMental Imagery

++

DelayDelay

== Source Monitoring ErrorsSource Monitoring Errors

What About ChildrenWhat About Children

Who Make False Accusations of AbuseWho Make False Accusations of Abuse

at the at the FIRSTFIRST Interview? Interview?

Three Studies:Three Studies:

McMartin Preschool (Los Angeles)McMartin Preschool (Los Angeles)

Kelly Michaels (New Jersey)Kelly Michaels (New Jersey)

Questions:Questions:

1. What Interviewing Techniques 1. What Interviewing Techniques

Were Used in These Cases?Were Used in These Cases?

Questions:Questions:

2. Could These Techniques Act Quickly2. Could These Techniques Act Quickly

to Extract False Statements From Children?to Extract False Statements From Children?

Nadja Schreiber et al. (2007) Nadja Schreiber et al. (2007)

Interview TranscriptsInterview Transcripts

12 McMartin Preschool 12 McMartin Preschool

20 Kelly Michaels20 Kelly Michaels

20 Child Protective Services (CPS)20 Child Protective Services (CPS)

Six KindsSix Kindsof of

Suggestive TechniquesSuggestive Techniques

1. Positive Consequences1. Positive Consequences


Interviewer: Oh, you're so smart! I Interviewer: Oh, you're so smart! I knew you'd remember.knew you'd remember.


Interviewer: We can get out of here Interviewer: We can get out of here real quick if you just tell me what you real quick if you just tell me what you told me last time. told me last time.

CPS

McMartin

Kelly Michaels

0

5

10

15

20

25

Positive Consequences

Percentage of

Exchanges

2. Negative Consequences2. Negative Consequences


Interviewer: Everybody was playing naked Interviewer: Everybody was playing naked games in their school. Some of the naked games in their school. Some of the naked games were fun and they were kind of silly. games were fun and they were kind of silly. Do you remember that Bear, some of those Do you remember that Bear, some of those fun silly games?fun silly games?

Child: [Shakes puppet's head, "no".]Child: [Shakes puppet's head, "no".]

I: Oh, Bear, maybe you don't have a very I: Oh, Bear, maybe you don't have a very good memory...good memory...


Interviewer: Are you going to be Interviewer: Are you going to be stupid, or are you going to be smart stupid, or are you going to be smart and help us here? and help us here?

McMartin

CPS

Kelly Michaels

0

5

10

15

20

25

Negative Consequences

Percentage of

Exchanges

3. Asked & Answered3. Asked & Answered

3. Asked & Answered3. Asked & Answered

Interviewer: Did Kelly bleed, too? Interviewer: Did Kelly bleed, too?

Child: NoChild: No

I: Are you sure she didn’t bleed? I: Are you sure she didn’t bleed?

McMartin CPS

Kelly Michaels

0

5

10

15

20

25

Asked & Answered

Percentage of

Exchanges

4. Other People4. Other People

4. Other People4. Other People

Interviewer: You see all the kids in this Interviewer: You see all the kids in this picture? Every single kid in this picture picture? Every single kid in this picture has come here and talked to us. Isn't has come here and talked to us. Isn't that amazing?... These kids came to visit that amazing?... These kids came to visit us and we found out they know a lot of us and we found out they know a lot of yucky old secrets from that old school. yucky old secrets from that old school. And they all came and told us the secrets.And they all came and told us the secrets.

McMartin

CPSKelly Michaels

0

5

10

15

20

25

Other People

Percentage of

Exchanges

5. Inviting Speculation5. Inviting Speculation

5. Inviting Speculation5. Inviting Speculation

Interviewer: Now, I think this is another one Interviewer: Now, I think this is another one of those tricky games. What do you of those tricky games. What do you thinkthink, , Rags? Do you Rags? Do you thinkthink some of that yucky some of that yucky touching happened, Rags, when she was touching happened, Rags, when she was tied up and she couldn't get away? Do you tied up and she couldn't get away? Do you thinkthink some of that touching that -- Mr. Ray some of that touching that -- Mr. Ray mightmight have done some of that touching? have done some of that touching? Do you think that's Do you think that's possiblepossible? Where do ? Where do you you thinkthink he he would havewould have touched her? touched her?

McMartin

CPSKelly Michaels

0

5

10

15

20

25

Inviting Speculation

Percentage of

Exchanges

6. Introducing Information6. Introducing Information


Interviewer: Did we tell you Kelly is in Interviewer: Did we tell you Kelly is in jail?jail?


Interviewer: How about Naked Movie Interviewer: How about Naked Movie Star? You guys remember that Star? You guys remember that game?game?

McMartin

CPS

Kelly Michaels

0

5

10

15

20

25

Introducing Information

Percentage of

Exchanges

Which techniques, if any,Which techniques, if any,could have inducedcould have induced

accusations quickly?accusations quickly?

Positive ConsequencesPositive Consequences

Negative ConsequencesNegative Consequences

Other PeopleOther People

Inviting SpeculationInviting Speculation

Introducing InformationIntroducing Information

Asked & AnsweredAsked & Answered

Sena Garven et al (1998)Sena Garven et al (1998)“Manny Morales Study”“Manny Morales Study”

66 Children66 Children

Ages 3 – 6 Ages 3 – 6

(Mean = 4.3 years)(Mean = 4.3 years)

Classroom Visit by “Manny Morales”Classroom Visit by “Manny Morales”

Interviews 1 week after Manny’s visitInterviews 1 week after Manny’s visit

Rapport building followed by questioningRapport building followed by questioning

Control children questioned Control children questioned

with “merely” suggestive questionswith “merely” suggestive questions

“ “ When Manny was here did he....When Manny was here did he....

... tear a book?”... tear a book?”

....say a bad word?”....say a bad word?”

...steal a pen from the teacher’s desk?”...steal a pen from the teacher’s desk?”

Experimental children questioned with...Experimental children questioned with...


Positive ConsequencesPositive Consequences

Negative ConsequencesNegative Consequences


Controls

Experimental Group

0

10

20

30

40

50

60

70

Percentage False

Accusations

Length of Interviews:Length of Interviews:

4.2 minutes4.2 minutes

What is the “active ingredient”What is the “active ingredient”

of these techniques? of these techniques?

What is the “active ingredient”What is the “active ingredient”

of these techniques? of these techniques?

-- Reinforcement-- Reinforcement

-- Other People (Conformity Pressure)-- Other People (Conformity Pressure)

Sena Garven et al (2000)Sena Garven et al (2000)“Paco Perez Study”“Paco Perez Study”

120 Children120 Children

Ages 5 – 7 Ages 5 – 7

Classroom Visit by “Paco Perez”Classroom Visit by “Paco Perez”

First Interview First Interview

-- 1 week after Paco’s Visit-- 1 week after Paco’s Visit

Four interview conditionsFour interview conditions

1.1. ReinforcementReinforcement

2.2. Other PeopleOther People

3.3. Reinforcement + Other PeopleReinforcement + Other People

4.4. Neither (“merely” suggestive)Neither (“merely” suggestive)

2 x 2 Factorial Design2 x 2 Factorial Design

Two types of misleading questionsTwo types of misleading questions

-- Mundane-- Mundane

-- Fantastic-- Fantastic

Mundane questionsMundane questions

““Did Paco....Did Paco....

...tear a book?”...tear a book?”

...tell you a secret?”...tell you a secret?”

...tickle you on the tummy?”...tickle you on the tummy?”

...kiss you on the nose?”...kiss you on the nose?”

Fantastic questionsFantastic questions

““Did Paco....Did Paco....

...take you on a helicopter ride?”...take you on a helicopter ride?”

...take you to a farm?”...take you to a farm?”

...take you on a horse ride?”...take you on a horse ride?”

No Other People

Other People

0

10

20

30

40

50

60

70

Interview 1: Mundane Questions

Percentage False

Accusations

No Reinforcement

Reinforcement

0

10

20

30

40

50

60

70


Percentage False

Accusations

No Reinforcement

Reinforcement

0

10

20

30

40

50

60

70

Interview 1: Fantastic Questions

Percentage False

Accusations

Second Interview Second Interview

1-2 weeks after first interview1-2 weeks after first interview

50% of children in50% of children in

Reinforcement & Other People conditionsReinforcement & Other People conditions

questioned same way questioned same way

as first interview.as first interview.

No Reinforcement

Reinforcement

0

10

20

30

40

50

60

70


Percentage False

Accusations

No Reinforcement

Reinforcement

0

10

20

30

40

50

60

70

Interview 2: Fantastic Questions

Percentage False

Accusations

Challenge questions:Challenge questions:

““You said that Paco tore the book.You said that Paco tore the book.

Did you see that or just hear about it?”Did you see that or just hear about it?”

No Reinforcement

Reinforcement

0

10

20

30

40

50

60

70

Challenge: Mundane Questions

Percentage False

Accusations

No Reinforcement

Reinforcement

0

10

20

30

40

50

60

70

Challenge: Fantastic Questions

Percentage False

Accusations

ConclusionsConclusions

There are many There are many

suggestive interviewing techniquessuggestive interviewing techniques

that can have short-term or long-termthat can have short-term or long-term

negative effects negative effects

on children’s accuracy, but......on children’s accuracy, but......

ConclusionsConclusions

.....the effects of .....the effects of ReinforcementReinforcement

are by far the most powerful....are by far the most powerful....

fast, fast,

strong, strong,

and long-lasting.and long-lasting.

ConclusionConclusion

““Instant Suggestibility” cocktailInstant Suggestibility” cocktail

5 parts introducing information5 parts introducing information

5 parts reinforcement5 parts reinforcement

Different kinds Different kinds

of bad interviewingof bad interviewing

Improper interviewingImproper interviewing

Clumsy interviewingClumsy interviewing

Good Child InterviewingGood Child Interviewing

Rapport buildingRapport building

Get child talking in long sentencesGet child talking in long sentences

as early as possible in interviewas early as possible in interview


Introduce topic of interestIntroduce topic of interest

in as neutral a way as possiblein as neutral a way as possible

(“Do you know why we’re here today?”)(“Do you know why we’re here today?”)

(“What sort of things does Uncle Sam do(“What sort of things does Uncle Sam do

that you like? What sort of things doesthat you like? What sort of things does

he do that you don’t like?”)he do that you don’t like?”)


Open ended questionsOpen ended questions

Encourage child to do most of the talkingEncourage child to do most of the talking


Keep yes/no questions to minimumKeep yes/no questions to minimum

Keep focused questions to minimumKeep focused questions to minimum

(i.e., requiring only short answer)(i.e., requiring only short answer)

Clumsy InterviewingClumsy Interviewing

Little or no rapport buildingLittle or no rapport building

Interviewer encourages short answersInterviewer encourages short answers

from the startfrom the start(“Where do you go to school?”)(“Where do you go to school?”)

(“Who’s your teacher?”)(“Who’s your teacher?”)

(“What’s your favorite subject?”)(“What’s your favorite subject?”)


Topic of interest introducedTopic of interest introduced

in suggestive or socially awkward wayin suggestive or socially awkward way

(“Do you know what your private parts are?”(“Do you know what your private parts are?”

““Did anybody ever touch you on your private parts?”)Did anybody ever touch you on your private parts?”)


Most of interview conductedMost of interview conducted

with yes/nowith yes/no

and focused questionsand focused questions

Full narrative picture of eventFull narrative picture of event

never emergesnever emerges

Improper InterviewingImproper Interviewing

Using the suggestive techniquesUsing the suggestive techniques

described earlierdescribed earlier

ReinforcementReinforcement

Introducting InformationIntroducting Information




Can and doesCan and does

induce false accusationsinduce false accusations


Does Does notnot tend to induce false accusations tend to induce false accusations

Tends to make child’s accusationTends to make child’s accusation

less convincingless convincing

Decreased chance of successful prosecutionDecreased chance of successful prosecution


Can be avoided fairly easily:Can be avoided fairly easily:

1. Education of interviewers and supervisors1. Education of interviewers and supervisors

2. Firm stand by supervisors that2. Firm stand by supervisors that

improper interviewing is unacceptableimproper interviewing is unacceptable


Hard to eliminateHard to eliminate

Good interviewing skills hardGood interviewing skills hard

to teach in agency settingto teach in agency setting

Best success: Michael Lamb Best success: Michael Lamb

& Kathleen Sternberg& Kathleen Sternberg

Relevant CitationsRelevant CitationsNote: Publications for which J. M. Wood is a co-author are available online Note: Publications for which J. M. Wood is a co-author are available online

at http://works.bepress.com/james_wood/at http://works.bepress.com/james_wood/

Schreiber, N., Bellah, L. D., Martinez, Y., McLaurin, K. A., Strok, R., Garven, S., & Wood, J. M. Schreiber, N., Bellah, L. D., Martinez, Y., McLaurin, K. A., Strok, R., Garven, S., & Wood, J. M. (2006). Suggestive interviewing in the McMartin Preschool and Kelly Michaels daycare abuse (2006). Suggestive interviewing in the McMartin Preschool and Kelly Michaels daycare abuse

cases: A case study. cases: A case study. Social Influence, 1Social Influence, 1, 16-47., 16-47.

Garven, S., Wood, J. M., Malpass, R. S., & Shaw, J. S. (1998). More than suggestion: The effect of Garven, S., Wood, J. M., Malpass, R. S., & Shaw, J. S. (1998). More than suggestion: The effect of interviewing techniques from the McMartin Preschool case. interviewing techniques from the McMartin Preschool case. Journal of Applied Psychology, Journal of Applied Psychology, 83,83, 347-359. 347-359.

Garven, S., Wood, J. M., & Malpass, R. S. (2000). Allegations of wrongdoing: The effects of Garven, S., Wood, J. M., & Malpass, R. S. (2000). Allegations of wrongdoing: The effects of reinforcement on children's mundane and fantastic claims. reinforcement on children's mundane and fantastic claims. Journal of Applied Psychology, 85,Journal of Applied Psychology, 85, 38-49.38-49.

Relevant CitationsRelevant Citations

Wood, J. M., & Garven, S. (2000). How sexual abuse interviews go astray: Wood, J. M., & Garven, S. (2000). How sexual abuse interviews go astray: Implications for prosecutors, police, and child protection services. Implications for prosecutors, police, and child protection services. Child Child Maltreatment, 5,Maltreatment, 5, 109-118. 109-118.

Quick Ways to Extract False Statements From Children 10-10-2007

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