PSJ_July_2011_No._196.pdf

This edition includes:

Interviews with prisoners, prison staff, prisoners’family members and workers from voluntary

and charitable sector organisations.

P R I S O N S E R V I C E

OURNALJP R I S O N S E R V I C E

OURNALJJuly 2011 No 196

Voices from the front line


OURNALJJanuary 2011 No 193

Where does the prisonsystem go from here?

Special Edition

X 102 PSJ 196 July 2011 Cover:Prison Service Journal 15/6/11 08:49

Prison Service JournalIssue 196Issue 196Prison Service Journal

Purpose and editorial arrangements

The Prison Service Journal is a peer reviewed journal published by HM Prison Service of England and Wales.

Its purpose is to promote discussion on issues related to the work of the Prison Service, the wider criminal justice

system and associated fields. It aims to present reliable information and a range of views about these issues.

The editor is responsible for the style and content of each edition, and for managing production and the

Journal’s budget. The editor is supported by an editorial board — a body of volunteers all of whom have worked

for the Prison Service in various capacities. The editorial board considers all articles submitted and decides the out-

line and composition of each edition, although the editor retains an over-riding discretion in deciding which arti-

cles are published and their precise length and language.

From May 2005 selected articles from each edition are available in the Resource Centre of the HMPrison Service website. This is available at www.hmprisonservice.gov.uk

Circulation of editions and submission of articles

Six editions of the Journal, printed at HMP Leyhill, are published each year with a circulation of approximately

6,500 per edition. The editor welcomes articles which should be up to c.4,000 words and submitted by email to

[email protected] or as hard copy and on disk to Prison Service Journal, c/o Print Shop Manager, HMP

Leyhill, Wotton-under-Edge, Gloucestershire, GL12 8HL. All other correspondence may also be sent to the Editor

at this address or to [email protected].

Footnotes are preferred to endnotes, which must be kept to a minimum. All articles are subject to peer

review and may be altered in accordance with house style. No payments are made for articles.

Subscriptions

The Journal is distributed to every Prison Service establishment in England and Wales. Individual members of

staff need not subscribe and can obtain free copies from their establishment. Subscriptions are invited from other

individuals and bodies outside the Prison Service at the following rates, which include postage:

United Kingdom

single copy £5.00

one year’s subscription £25.00 (organisations or individuals in their professional capacity)

£18.00 (private individuals)

Overseas

single copy £7.00



Orders for subscriptions (and back copies which are charged at the single copy rate) should be sent with a

cheque made payable to ‘HM Prison Service’ to Prison Service Journal, c/o Print Shop Manager, HMP Leyhill,

Wotton-under-Edge, Gloucestershire, GL12 8BT.

Margaret AdamsDr Rachel BellHMYOI FelthamMaggie Bolger

Prison Service College, Newbold RevelAlan ConstableHMP WinchesterDr Ben Crewe

University of CambridgePaul CrosseyHMYOI Portland

Dr Michael FiddlerUniversity of Greenwich

Steve HallSERCO

Dr Karen HarrisonUniversity of Hull

Professor Yvonne JewkesUniversity of LeicesterDr Helen JohnstonUniversity of HullMartin Kettle

HM Inspectorate of PrisonsMonica Lloyd

Rehabilitation Services Group NOMSAlan Longwell

Criminal Justice Division, Northern Ireland Prison Service

William PaynePublic Sector Bids UnitDr Basia Spalek

University of BirminghamChristopher Stacey

UnlockRay Taylor

HMP PentonvilleDr Azrini Wahidin

Queens University, BelfastMike Wheatley

Directorate of High SecurityRay Hazzard and Steve Williams

HMP Leyhill

Editorial BoardJamie Bennett (Editor)

IRC Morton Hall

Contents

Jamie Bennett is Centre Manager atIRC Morton Hall.

Ray Taylor is a prison officer at HMPPentonville in London.

Martin Kettle is a senioroperational manager currentlyseconded to HM Inspectorate ofPrisons.

Maggie Bolger is based in TrainingServices.

Editorial Comment

Interview: Prison GovernorJamie Bennett

Interview: Senior Officer in Training ServicesMaggie Bolger

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3

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10

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19 Interview: Prisoner in a local prisonDr. Rachel Bell

Dr. Rachel Bell is a senior officer atHMYOI Feltham.

Interview: Prison Officer in a High Security PrisonMartin Kettle

Interview: Instructional OfficerMartin Kettle

Interview: Prisoner in a local prisonRay Taylor

22Monica Lloyd is based inRehabilitation Services Group, NOMS .

Interview: Prisoner in a female closed prisonMonica Lloyd

24Margaret Adams was a prisonmanager.

Interview: Life sentence prisonerMargaret Adams

28 Interview: Prisoner in open conditionsMonica Lloyd

31Christopher Stacey is Head ofProjects and Services at UNLOCK, theNational Association of ReformedOffenders.

Interview: Mother of a serving prisonerChristopher Stacey

X 102 PSJ 196 July 2011 Cover:Prison Service Journal 15/6/11 08:50

The Editorial Board wishes to make clear that the views expressed by contributors are their own and donot necessarily reflect the official views or policies of the Prison Service.Printed at HMP Leyhill on 115 gsm Claro SilkSet in 10 on 13 pt Frutiger LightCirculation approx 6,000ISSN 0300-3558 Crown Copyright 2011

July 2011

1Issue 196 Prison Service Journal

Cover photograph by Brian Locklin,Health Care Officer, HMP Gartree.

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43

47

34 Interview: Father of a serving prisonerChristopher Stacey

Michael Fiddler is lecturer inCriminology at the University ofGreenwich.

Interview: Worker for a large charitable organisationMichael Fiddler

Interview: Worker for a small charitable organisationRay Taylor

Professor Alison Liebling is Directorof the Prison Pesearch Centre at theInstitute of Criminology, University ofCambridge.

48 Book ReviewDrugs, Crime and Public Health: The politicaleconomy of drug policyRay Taylor

Book ReviewSongs from the Black Chair: A Memoir ofMental Interiors

50 Book ReviewPositive Practice Positive Outcomes: a handbookfor professionals in the criminal justice systemworking with offenders with learning disabilitiesJenny Talbot

Jenny Talbot is the ProgrammeManager for Learning Difficulties andDisabilities in Prison at the Prisonreform Trust.

52 Book ReviewCorrectional mental health: From theory tobest practiceDr. Rachel Bell

53 Book Review:Not Bad for a Bad LadPeter Quinn

Peter Quinn is a retired prisongovernor.

55 Values and Practices in Public and Private SectorPrisons: A Summary of Key Findings from anEvaluationProfessor Alison Liebling, Dr. Ben Crewe and Dr. Susie Hulley

Professor Alison Liebling is Directorof the Prison Research Centre, Dr. BenCrewe is Penology Director andDeputy Director of the Prison researchCentre and Dr. Susie Hulley is aResearch Associate.

X 102 PSJ 196 July 2011 Text:Prison Service Journal 15/6/11 08:48 Page 1

Editorial Comment

Issue 1962 Prison Service Journal

In January 2011, Prison Service Journal published a specialedition entitled: Where does the prison system go from here?This featured interviews with prominent public figuresincluding the Minister responsible for prisons, the ChiefExecutive of the National Offender Management Service, theChief Inspector of Prisons, several heads of prominent interestgroups, a union leader and a former editorial board member ofInside Time. The interviews were conducted shortly before thepublication of the Green Paper Breaking the Cycle: EffectivePunishment, Rehabilitation and Sentencing of Offenders andthis edition was intended to provide a reflection upon thecritical thinking that would inform the future direction of publicpolicy.

The edition was generally well received by readers.However, there were criticisms from some quarters. Inparticular, some officers and prisoners commented that theyfelt over-looked in the debate. Those comments sowed a seedthat over time took root and grew into this follow up editionfocussing on Voices from the frontline. This has been a bold,challenging and risky project but one that has also beenexciting, valuable and poignant. Providing a space for theauthentic voices of staff, prisoners, prisoners’ families andthose working in the voluntary and charitable sector isimportant for a number of reasons. First, those are people whounderstand and experience imprisonment most intensely. Theytherefore have a particular insight into the reality of the livedexperience, which is valuable in informing change. Second, it isprecisely because their voices are so rarely heard directly, openlyand at length that it is important that a space is provided so asto empower them to be participants in the debate rather thanmerely the subjects of it. Third, hearing those voices directlyconveys something of the personality of those people,revealing their human strengths, frailties and complexities. It isa humanising process.

The interviews for this edition took place at the end of theconsultation period for the Green paper, Breaking the Cycle, andshortly prior to the publication of theWhite paper setting out theGovernment’s detailed legislative proposals. These papers will setthe direction for the coming years. There are three particularlyimportant areas of planned reform that are salient to prisons.The first is that there is a challenge being presented to thecurrent use of imprisonment. It has been argued that not onlydoes the expansion of the prison system need to be halted butindeed there should be a reduction in its use. This has beenjustified on grounds of efficiency, that this is not affordable; oneffectiveness grounds, that community sentences often workbetter; and on moral grounds, that the current level of use is notjustified. The second is that prisons should be ‘places of hardwork and industry’ where prisoners should undertakeemployment in a way that more closely resembles a workingweek. It is intended that this will foster a habit of work as well asprovide skills and prospects that may be of benefit upon release.The third is that an innovative approach to rehabilitation will bedeveloped through ‘payment by results’. The intention is that byincentivizing organisations there will be an opportunity toencourage more and more effective services that will help tobreak the cycle of re-offending.

The issues discussed in this edition are explored by thirteenpeople who are intimately and directly involved in the prisonexperience. They include four members of staff, ranging from anofficer working in a high security prison, to an instructionalofficer, a senior officer working in training services and a prisongovernor. The five prisoners who contribute include two in localprisons, a life sentence prisoner, a woman prisoner and one in anopen establishment. There are also interviews with two parentsof serving prisoners and two people whowork for charitable andvoluntary sector organisations, delivering services to prisoners.The interviewees were identified through a range of contacts inprisons and whilst it is not intended that they are an exhaustive,representative or scientifically sampled group, it is intended thatthey provide authenticity, credibility and insight. It was decided atan early stage that personal details of the interviewees would bekept to a minimum. In addition it was decided that individualoffences would not be discussed with prisoners or prisoner’sfamilies and that pseudonyms would be used. This was partly forreasons of relevance and sensitivity, but was also to ensure thatthose voices could be heard without distraction. The issues werediscussed with each of the interviewees using a standardised listof questions. These questions examined the key issues includingthe size of the prison population and the conditions ofimprisonment in the past, present and future. They alsoaddressed prominent areas of public policy including the ‘brokensociety’, the ‘rehabilitation revolution’ and the role of thecommercial and charitable sectors.

Whilst each individual has a distinct and personalperspective, and that was indeed one of the reasons for pursuingthis project, there were some common themes that emerged. Ingeneral there was a consensus about prisons being overused andthere was support for investment in rehabilitation andparticularly employment in prisons. However, there were manypragmatic questions raised. The most significant of these relatedto resources. Interviewees were particularly concerned abouthow services could be maintained and improved in the currentfiscal environment. Were the funds available to realise theambitions? What services were at risk now or in the future fromefficiency savings or policy changes? What might be the effecton the culture and climate of prisons from changes in servicedelivery? They also had many questions about the public,political and media appetite for proposed changes. Manyquestioned how much the public knew and understood aboutprisons? How much consensus there was about the changes?Can they be sustained in the face of resistance?Whilst there wassome general optimism about the intentions for the future, therewas anxiety about the challenges of turning this into reality.

This edition of Prison Service Journal is published at animportant time where the Government’s strategy is takingdefinitive form. This edition includes thirteen individual andauthentic accounts of the hopes, fears and aspirations of thoseliving and working in prisons or dealing with the consequencesof imprisonment. For those involved, it provides an opportunityto talk openly and honestly and to be heard by those responsiblefor practice and policy. For those reading this edition, it is hopedthat they will be rewarded with perspectives and insights that areall the more valuable as a result of their rarity.


Prison Service Journal

Dr. Peter Bennett studied South Asian History andSocial Anthropology at the School of Oriental andAfrican Studies at the University of London. Hewent on to carry out fieldwork in central India forhis PhD, publishing a book and several articles oncaste and sect1. He joined the Prison Service as anofficer at HMP Birmingham in 1983 followed bypositions as governor grade at Everthorpe, Hull,Moorland and headquarters. He has beenGovernor in-charge at Nottingham,Wellingborough and latterly at Grendontherapeutic community prison and Springhill openprison. He has been Chair of the Perrie LecturesCommittee and is a Director of the Koestler Trustand a Director of the New Bridge Foundation.

JB: From your perspective, what are theeffects of the fact that we are locking upincreasing numbers of people in prison? What arethe consequences for you of prisons being full?

PB: I believe that we lock up more people than weneed to. Not that in any way I am an abolitionist,although I imagine a day when abolition might bepossible, rather that imprisonment should be reservedfor the worst offenders posing a risk of significant harmto the public. During my career I have experienced analarming and unnecessary rise in the prison populationduring which time the punishment element ofsentencing has increased and the rehabilitive elementhas progressed but at a slower rate than it could have.Other than not making economic sense, it decreasesopportunities to focus on the positive side of criminaljustice; changing lives and encouraging goodcitizenship. Inevitably if prisons are over full, there is adilution of resources to fund effective rehabilitation andresettlement regimes. With regard to offendersidentified as likely to benefit from particular offendingbehaviour programmes, we are currently experiencing adegree of stagnation as it becomes increasingly difficultto allocate places when courses are full and waiting listsare lengthening. But as Governor of Grendon, I ampleased to say that I have been spared some of thepressures of over crowding, largely because I have beenable to demonstrate that to increase the population ofthis therapeutic community prison or to take too manyprisoners at a time would have a serious adverse effecton the maintenance of a safe and trusting environmentwhich is essential to the practice of good therapy.

Fortunately, senior Prison Service managers havelistened to the argument and respondedsympathetically.

JB: Politicians often use the term ‘BrokenSociety’ Do you think this describes the world thatthe prisoners you work with come from?

PB: I am always intrigued by politicians’ constructsof society, whether that is the ‘big’ society, or ‘broken’society, or indeed an outright denial of the veryexistence of society. I suppose the idea of a brokensociety is a convenient way of saying that things havegone terribly wrong and the new regime knows how tofix it. It is all very facile. Society is highly complex andsubject to continuous change. An ever-changing anduneven distribution of wealth and power leads to areasof deprivation, temptation, ambiguity and tensionwhich are often linked to increased criminal activity. Theprison population at Springhill reflects diverse socialbackgrounds, including prisoners from deprivedneighbourhoods as well as professionals from theworlds of business, finance and politics. At Grendontherapeutic prison, however, there is a preponderanceof men from dysfunctional family backgrounds,particularly those who have suffered traumas duringchildhood arising from neglect or abuse. My experienceof therapy at Grendon over the last decade hasconvinced me of the close link between abuse andneglect within the family and subsequent criminalbehaviour and therefore of the effectiveness of grouptherapy as a means of addressing such profound andtraumatic experiences and ultimately helping men tochange their lives for the better. Perhaps myexperiences also suggests that the family ought also betargeted more than it has been as a focus for crimeprevention, but this raises more political issues aboutintrusion and the ‘nanny state’.

JB: Do you think prisons can help with socialproblems like unemployment, drug use and familybreakdown?

PB: One has to be realistic here by acknowledgingthat prison can exacerbate individual problems, buthaving said this, prisons are not only about trying tomitigate the harmful effects of imprisonment per se. Idon’t think I could have continued working in prisonsand maintaining a commitment towards reform andrehabilitation from within unless I thought that wecould make a real difference. Prisons can provide the

Issue 196 3

Interview: Prison GovernorDr. Peter Bennett is Governor of HMP Grendon and Springhill and is interviewed by

Jamie Bennett who is Centre Manager at IRC Morton Hall.

1. Bennett, P. (1993) The Path of Grace: Social Organisation and Temple Worship in a Vaishnava Sect Delhi: Hindustan PublishingCorporation.


Prison Service Journal4 Issue 196

time and space as well as the support andencouragement to help men and women confront theirproblems and improve their lives. As I speak today Ican’t help but consider how the greater proportion ofmy time as Governor is spent in maintaining andcontinually seeking to improve regimes geared toresettlement and rehabilitation in which prisoners canengage with future employers, study for educationaland vocational qualifications, seek support from drugcounsellors, benefit from courses in parenting andparticipate in family and children’s days.

JB: Does imprisonment make it easier orharder for prisoners to make positive changes totheir lives?

PB: My background as asocial anthropologist has alwaysprovided me with a rationale forthe process of imprisonmentwhich is pertinent to yourquestion. Imprisonment is a riteof passage, a prolonged liminalstage between a forcedseparation from society toeventual reintegration back intosociety. Rites of passage aretypically status changing and lifechanging events marked by aliminal stage where the individualis vulnerable to good and badinfluences, traditionally forces ofgood and evil. The socialmetaphor is apt. prisons arepotentially dangerous placeswhere life choices and influencescan be harmful or can lead to selfimprovement in preparation forrelease. What we have to ensureas practitioners is that theharmful effects are reduced —self harm, violence, drug misuse— and the positive impact isincreased by maintaining a healthy regime that enablesthe prisoner to engage voluntarily in life changingpursuits. As a therapeutic prison, Grendon isremarkable for the reduced levels of bullying and selfharm, rare resort to the use of force, the integration ofsexual and non-sexual offenders, the absence of asegregation unit and the extremely low levels, in factnon-existence, of drug use. A prison like Grendonprovides a safe and trusting space and an opportunityfor prisoners to begin to make changes to their lives.

JB: The Government wants to achieve what itis calling a ‘rehabilitation revolution’. From yourpoint of view, what are the areas where more

could be done to help prisoners go straight onrelease?

PB: I very much welcome the Government’semphasis on rehabilitation, a term which had for a timedropped out of favour but which has now itself beenrehabilitated, and could prove to be a potent message,albeit ‘revolution’ is rather grandiose. As for helpingprisoners to go straight, I’d like to see greater emphasison the last of the three stage rite of passage describedearlier, that is reintegration back into society. Muchmore is being done than ever before in preparingprisoners for release, particularly initiatives to improveoutside agencies in helping prisoners to resettle and to

gain employment, for this is notjust the job of the ProbationTrusts. We are increasinglysecuring positive contacts withemployers and educationalinstitutions, mentoring schemesand other forms of support forprisoners and ex-prisoners areproliferating, helping prisoners todesist from reoffending. But morethan this, I would like to see aclear and sincereacknowledgement by society thatonce a prisoner has served his orher sentence, he or she isaccepted back into society as acitizen with the full status of acitizen and without the stigmathat customarily attaches itself tothe ‘ex-prisoner’. Criminologistssuch as Shadd Maruna haveidentified this need for what ineffect is a ritual of reintegrationwhere desistance is reinforced bythe ex-prisoner defining himselfand being acknowledged byothers as a law abiding citizen2.The readiness to accept this

notion of full and complete reintegration shouldunderpin all rehabilitation initiatives.

JB: What kind of work or training do youthink could be introduced to prisons?

PB: I think there are many highly innovative andrelevant examples of work and training already inprisons. At Springhill I have been impressed by my staffand prisoners who have linked up with a range ofagencies to set up work and training opportunities.These include prisoners serving the community byworking for Oxford Citizens Advice Bureau, a farms andgardens project developed with Aim Higher andsupported by Lottery funding training prisoners in

2. For example see Maruna, S. (2011) Reentry as a Rite of Passage in Punishment and Society Vol.13 No.1 p.3-28.

What we have toensure as

practitioners is thatthe harmful effectsare reduced — selfharm, violence,

drug misuse — andthe positive impactis increased bymaintaining a

healthy regime thatenables the prisoner

to engagevoluntarily in lifechanging pursuits.



horticulture and growing produce to sell to localrestaurants as well as to replenish the prison kitchens,and a training centre shared with Northern Gas andtaking on prisoner apprentices as well as non-prisonerswho train on the site. What is important, however, isthat Governors are allowed space to be enterprising,that profits are not appropriated and needsassessments are conducted on a regular basis to ensurethat the work and training provided is of relevance tothe job market. The future looks promising.

JB: Would you welcome the opportunity forprisoners to ‘pay something back’ to thecommunity for their crimes, either financially,through some kind of unpaid work, or by meetingtheir victims?

PB: Forgive me if I introduce another three-foldsocial principle, one that isfundamental in all forms of socialexchange and that integratessocieties universally; theobligation to give, to receive andto repay. I would say that there isa corresponding three-foldprinciple which reflects thenegative side of exchange; that isthe tendency to take illegally,which leads to the victim’sexpectation of repayment orrecompense, which is fulfilled bythe perpetrator’s makingrepayment or restitution to thevictim. This seems to be therationale underpinningrestorative justice, and one that Isupport, particularly in as muchas it brings to the fore the plightof the victim and helps him or herin coming to terms with a particularly traumatic lifeevent. It also helps the perpetrator in a sense to atonefor his or her ‘sins’; to reform. As such, I believe thatinitiatives which are seen as a form of payback are to bepreferred precisely because they satisfy a universalexpectation of justice, whose outcome can beimmeasurably more positive than punishment alone.

JB: How has the prisoner experience shiftedin recent years?

PB: During my 28 years of working in prison, themost noticeable change has undoubtedly been theimprovement in the treatment of prisoners and theimpact of the decency agenda. But I have alwaysacknowledged that as a Governor, my understanding ofprisoners’ experiences is inevitably vague and partial,indeed that is why I have always advocated and

supported research in prisons which goes beyond theroutine statistical kind and digs deeply into the socialand cultural life of the prison. Ethnographic researchreveals so much about prisoner society that is normallyhidden from view and an understanding of which isessential if we are to develop truly positive rehabilitativeregimes. I was particularly pleased therefore to have theopportunity to support Ben Crewe in his research whenI was Governor of Wellingborough. Ben’s recentlypublished book, The Prisoner Society3, provides a rareand fascinating view of what goes on in prisons andparticularly of how the prisoner experience haschanged over a period corresponding to my careerexperience from the overtly brutal and fearful to themore subtle pains and frustrations of the modern prisonas the carceral experience becomes less directly

oppressive but more ‘gripping’and ‘tight’, demanding more andrisking less. Nevertheless the painof imprisonment persists.

JB: How have prison-staffand staff-prisonerrelationships changed inrecent years? How do youthink they could beimproved?’

PB: This is an issue that isdear to my heart and I can’t dofull justice to my thoughts but Iwill say a little on how staff-prisoner relationships can beimproved. In recent years I havebeen fortunate enough to beGovernor of a prison where staff-prisoner relationships areextremely positive, indeed praisedas ‘positive’ and ‘outstanding’ by

HM Inspectorate of Prisons. I was initially sceptical as towhether examples of good practice at Grendon could beintroduced to other prisons, arguing that such seedlingsof humanity are unlikely to take root unless they havesimilar therapeutic structures in which to germinate.However, some two years ago I was asked by theDirector of Offender Management for the South EastRegion to lead an innovation project on improvingrelationships and offender engagement in the SouthEast prisons. One initiative was to involve staff andprisoners at Grendon in distilling aspects of the regimewith a view to exporting them to HMP Isle of Wight. Theresults were recently published in an article in theHoward Journal for Criminal Justice4. I believe they canprovide a useful template for improving regimes. But itwas not only about Grendon, last year I organised a

Issue 196 5

During my 28 yearsof working inprison, the mostnoticeable changehas undoubtedly

been theimprovement in the

treatment ofprisoners and theimpact of the

decency agenda.

3. Crewe, B. (2009) The Prisoner Society: Power, Adaptation and Social Life in an English Prison Oxford: Oxford University Press.4. Bennett, P. and Shuker, R. (2010) Improving Prisoner-Staff Relations: Exporting Grendon’s Good Practice in Howard Journal of Criminal

Justice Vol.49 No.5 p.491-505.



conference for all South East prisons which focussed ona wide range of potential initiatives including thedevelopment of prisoner councils and other ways ofdelegating greater responsibility to prisoners. Governorshave all submitted action plans that are all beingreviewed regularly by the new Deputy Director ofCustody. It is difficult to assess the success of thisproject. I have a day job and limited resources and havenot been able to pursue it as much as I would have likedbut I have noted a deep surge of interest in the projectwith some encouraging signs, not least the excellentachievements at the Isle of Wight with its lively prisonercouncils and the benefits of arranging several exchangesbetween staff at Grendon, Parkhurst and Albany.

JB: How has the experience of working inprison changed in recent years?

PB: Audits, inspections, performance targets, riskassessments, traffic lights, emails, emails and emails.

JB: What are the aspects of working in prisonthat people outside are least aware of?

PB: Generally people are naïve in theirunderstanding of prisons. To some extent that isinevitable, after all, prisons are closed institutions setapart from society, but they are also depositories ofstereotypes. Those stereotypes are by their very natureresilient to change, particularly when many journalistsand politicians find it more dramatic to employ themfor communicating sound bites and messages. Isuppose that people are least aware of all the effortwhich goes into maintaining rehabilitative regimes andthe fact that most prisons are for most of the time farless oppressive, brutal and violent than people wouldexpect them to be.

JB: An increasing number of prisons arepotentially to be managed by private companiesin the near future and there will be potentiallywider opportunities for the voluntary andcharitable sector. What are the benefits and risksof these changes for you?

This is a rather sensitive question to ask aGovernor at the moment so I will be circumspect. Itgoes without saying that there are massive potentialbenefits by involving the voluntary and charitable sectoras long as developments are carefully regulated,particularly given that the management and treatmentof prisoners is a serious responsibility of the state. Thesame goes for private prisons.

JB: What do you think are the biggestproblems in the prison system?

PB: One of the biggest problems is what might becalled logistics. That is the difficulties in allocatingprisoners to the right prisons, programmes and courses.Another problem is those prison staff who do notsubscribe to rehabilitation.

JB: What are the things that get in the way ofprisons being more like you would want them tobe?

PB: As above and also over full prisons or oversized prisons.

JB: If you could do one thing to improve theeffectiveness of the prison service, what would itbe?

PB: Downsize it, streamline it and focus on thecustody and rehabilitation of those assessed as beingmost harmful to society, develop alternatives to custodyfor the rest.



Christine Thomas joined HMP Long Lartin as anOperational Support Grade before becoming aprison officer. Recently she has been working inthe programmes team, facilitating the offendingbehaviour programmes.

MK: From your perspective, what are theeffects of the fact that we are locking upincreasing numbers of people in prison? What arethe consequences for you of prisons being full?

CV:To be honest I have not noticed it much here,yet. We have two new wings, so we are busier, but wehave had more staff to cover that. We have beenreprofiled, so we are feeling the changes in terms ofstaffing numbers being cut; but not perhaps as much assome other prisons. Perhaps in future people’sworkload will increase and their safety may come in toquestion.

MK: Politicians often use the term ‘BrokenSociety’ Do you think this describes the world thatthe prisoners you work with come from?

CV:Certainly not all of them. Some of them willsay that they had a really good upbringing and didn’twant for anything; but for some of them it woulddescribe it — people who didn’t complete theirschooling fully, or many never have gone to school atall. A lot of it I suppose can be to do with the area thatthey’ve come from, the peers they’ve been surroundedby, their upbringing and family life — a lot have saidthat they have been brought up in care — so, a mix. ButI’d say more come from what politicians call the ‘BrokenSociety’.

MK: Do you think prisons can help with socialproblems like unemployment, drug use and familybreakdown?

CV:To some degree. For those with drug useproblems, there are a lot of programmes in place now,help with detoxes, support from CARATs1, treatmentprogrammes, and now the Integrated Drug TreatmentService. With unemployment, they’ve got manyeducation opportunities, though how far this willstand them in good stead on release — if someone’sgoing for a job and they have two candidates, one ofwhom has been in prison for 15 years, it is going to bedifficult for them to get jobs. In terms of familybreakdown, there are a lot of things like the AssistedPrison Visits Scheme, and family visits, but for many it

is difficult not least because of the distance for thefamily to visits them. So I’m not sure how much prisonhelps.

MK: Does imprisonment make it easier orharder for prisoners to make positive changes totheir lives?

CV: It can be harder in some respects if there arelots of things outside their control; and some peoplemay have many pro-criminal attitudes being reinforcedin here, being surrounded by like-minded people. Butthere are a lot of opportunities in prisons now, in waysthat have changed even since I have been in the job.They are away from certain risk factors on the outside,and have opportunities in the workshops andeducation, if they can attend them.

However, it can be a bit of an artificialenvironment. You can measure changes in behaviour tosome degree, from their wing behaviour and whetherthey manage to progress. And it depends on the kind ofsentences they’re doing — some people are coming upfor release, and some have got years and years andyears, so that it’s difficult to measure what impact it hasafter they get out.

MK: The Government wants to achieve whatit is calling a ‘rehabilitation revolution’. From yourpoint of view, what are the areas where morecould be done to help prisoners go straight onrelease?

CV:Perhaps more interventions in terms of morespecific programmes; more contact with peopleoutside, probation and the community — whichprobably does happen much more in low-categoryestablishments; more one-to-one work, more adaptedprogrammes for those with learning difficulties . Thereare some gaps in provision, for example, the Focusprogramme (a drug and alcohol programme) is veryhigh intensity, a six-month course; there are peoplewho don’t fit that need profile, who need a programmein the middle ground that is less intense. There aresome shorter programmes, about two weeks, butmaybe some things in the middle are also needed.Others may need more intensive input, for example foroffenders with a lower IQ, we are always looking atways we can facilitate programmes — whether it canbe adapted, or if it’s a matter of working withEducation first before the programme — we might be

Issue 196 7

1. Counselling, assessment, referral and treatment for substance misuse.

Interview: Prison Officer in aHigh Security Prison

Christine Thomas is a prison officer at HMP Long Lartin and is interviewed byMartin Kettle who is a senioroperational manager currently seconded to HM Inspectorate of Prisons.



able to make it more specific — but it’s very difficult todo at the moment.

It is also important that there is a link back into thecommunity through probation. When we do post-programme reviews after offending behaviour courses,Probation staff are encouraged to come, and we do afair amount of teleconferencing where they are too faraway to attend. It is less easy in high security, whereoften a prisoner may not know who their probationofficer is, or it may change quite often.

MK: What kind of work or training do youthink could be introduced to prisons?

CV: What they are doing could be moremeaningful in terms of work on release. There are somethings here, like the brick shop, where they are learningtrades, but not all the workshopsare like that. And although theygo to work, it’s of course acompletely differentenvironment; it could be mademore realistic, more appraisal andfeedback processes, to make itmore meaningful for them andmore like real life — but thatwould take resources.

MK: Would you welcomethe opportunity for prisonersto pay something back fortheir crimes, either financially,through some kind of unpaidwork, or by meeting theirvictim?

CV: I don’t think thatmeeting their victim would be agood idea, unless the victim thought it would bebeneficial for them. The victim awareness courses aregood, where the victims are willing to discuss it, but itshould be considered a lot more from the victim’sperspective and how they would feel. I imagine manyvictims wouldn’t want to meet the perpetrator. It couldbe very difficult for them, especially if the person didn’tfeel much remorse for what they had done. Though invictim awareness courses it does have more of animpact on the offender when they hear a victim directlyabout what the effect can be — but maybe not fromthe victim of their specific crime. I know there’s talkabout a prisoners’ earnings bill — I think that could bea good scheme for them, as well as the unpaid workand community service.

MK: How has the prisoner experience shiftedin recent years?

CV: While I have been here there have been extraincentives under the IEP scheme2. Some prisoners say it

is easier for them, and they maybe don’t see it as adeterrent any more. And I think there are more issuesnow to do with drug use, and issues have arisen aroundreligion, which for some is a positive thing, althoughwhere there is pressure it can be seen as a negative.

MK: How have prison-staff and staff-prisonerrelationships changed in recent years? How doyou think they could be improved?

CV: There’s a lot more communication now; thepersonal officer role has developed. It is checked thatcontact is made at least weekly, and the entries areupdated. There is a need for consistency — everyonehas the same training but they do things quitedifferently. The personal officer scheme is a valuableone — I have helped people read letters and write

letters, about things whichpeople probably wouldn’t feelcomfortable asking every officeron the wing to help with. It’s afirst port of call — though thereare teams of other officers theycould go to.

MK: How has theexperience of working inprison changed in recentyears?

CV: With the reprofiling ofstaff there has been a lot ofchanges. There are more staff insome areas but less in others, sothere does seem to be more inthe programmes and healthcaredepartments, less in psychology,less in certain areas of the jail. I

think morale is changing in prison — it’s lower than ithas been, perhaps with all the changes coming in atonce, or the prospect of being privatised. Now thatthat’s happened to one jail3, it’s something that peoplemaybe thought would never happen, but now it’sstarted to happen — it’s the uncertainty.

MK: What aspect of working in prison do youthink people outside are least aware of?

CV: Perhaps when there are serious incidents —I’m not sure the public are aware of the sort of thingsthan can happen. And also the opportunities thatprisoners do have — that they’re not just locked up allthe time, they can go to education, to workshops, tothe gym. And then the fact that staff talk to prisoners— many people seem to think that you don’t speak tothem, when you can have normal conversations, havea laugh and a joke with them, while keeping theboundaries clear. Because they have the television,you can talk about things that are going on in

8 Issue 196

2. Incentives and Earned Privileges.3. This refers to the announcement in March 2011 of the outcome of a competition to operate HMP Birmingham. This is the first time

that a prison operated by the public sector has transferred to private operation as a result of competition.

I imagine manyvictims wouldn’twant to meet theperpetrator. It couldbe very difficult forthe victim, especiallyif the person didn’tfeel much remorsefor what theyhad done.



everyday life — they’ve seen the Royal wedding, andevents like that.

MK: An increasing number of prisons arepotentially to be managed by private companiesin the near future and there will be potentiallywider opportunities for the voluntary andcharitable sector. What are the benefits and risksof these changes for you?

CV: I’m not sure about me specifically. There maybe some more opportunities if the voluntary andcharitable sector is involved — but there’s a real riskthat people may lose their jobs, and if staff were to becut you’d be questioning the safety of staff andprisoners on the wings. You may not have people whoare as specialised, with roles like the programmes, thegym, the search teams. I’m not sure whether it wouldbe the same training, and you might struggle to recruitand retain staff if it was in the private sector.

MK: What do you think are the biggestproblems in the prison system?

CV: The lack of resources available, and the lackof staff. It’s very difficult to complete the checks andkeep an eye on everything that’s going on on thewing — everything moves at a fast pace, there isn’ttime to slow down and have a good look. Alsoprisoners do have a lot of rights and entitlementsnow, and that can cause problems when things arenot fulfilled exactly. For example the prison shop — ifthere are problems with orders, it can lead to

problems which may be unnecessary but can escalatefrom a small issue.

MK: What are the things that get in the wayof prisons being more like you would want themto be?

CV: The changes that are made need to bereviewed more thoroughly after they’re implemented— it seems to take time. We’ve just had a number ofchanges in recent times: some things may be workingwell, other things are not working as well, and theycould do with reviewing more quickly. There has been alot of consultation, but it’s a question of how much ofthat was taken on board when the changes wereimplemented. And perhaps some more specific trainingopportunities. There is a lot of training happening now,but more variety would help — I’m not sure a lot ofpeople can see where their career is going in terms ofthe opportunities available higher up, given all thechanges that are coming in.

MK: If you could do one thing to improve theeffectiveness of the prison service, what wouldthat be?

CV: I haven’t got a pat answer to that, but I thinkmore staff is one of the biggest things. Everythingseems to have to be done to a time limit, whereas if youhad more staff, things could be done really thoroughly,with more staff on the landings for the prisoners,although I know we probably have a lot more staff thanlower-category prisons.

Issue 196 9



Caroline Stimson is Senior Officer working withinthe North West and Midlands Regional TrainingTeam. She joined the Prison Service in 2001 in theprivate sector and transferred to the public sectorin 2002. Caroline joined HR Learning andDevelopment in 2007 and teaches a range ofOffender Management training courses to bothPrison and Probation staff.

MB: From your perspective, what are the effectsof the fact that we are locking up increasing numbersof people in prison? What are the consequences foryou of prisons being full?

CS:More people are ending up in prison and this can’tgo on for ever. Something has to give. I know that theGovernment is recognising this and is trying to solve theproblem. Over fifteen years we have gone from around40,000 to over 80,000. That is astonishing. High populationnumbers effects offenders day to day living, and staff tryingto deal with them. There are not enough staff to go aroundand it feels that we are more short of staff than ever. Themore prisoners there are to each member of staff, then itbecomes more difficult in terms of safety; if you haven’t gotthe staffing numbers you need, you won’t be able to lookafter, control or manage the offenders on each wing. Also,the more prisoners that we have with the same resources, Ibelieve that they are not going to get what they need. Theyare not going to be able to get on courses or theinterventions that they need. Staff are not able to spendthe time that they need with them either. We only have afinite amount of resources, time and money.

MB: Politicians often use the term ‘BrokenSociety’ Do you think this describes the world thatthe prisoners you work with come from?

CS: I think that the term ‘broken society’ is a bitextreme. I certainly don’t think that we are there yet. Theterm ‘broken society’ gives the impression that there is nohope for society. I still have hope. Society has its problemsand some areas are worse than others. I would also saythat in years gone by, people had respect for each other,families and communities pulled together but that isslowly disappearing, some people are becomingaccepting of crime, alcohol, drugs, unemployment andthis is a real shame. I have real admiration for thosepeople who refuse to accept the ‘norm’ and who strive tokeep communities safe, decent, respectful places to live.Rather than focus purely on the areas of society whichhave their problems and fostering this idea of a ‘brokensociety’, the Government, and the media, should focus

more on the success stories. Give people hope andsomething to strive for.

MB: Do you think prisons can help with socialproblems like unemployment, drug use and familybreakdown?

CS: It is easy to become sceptical, working in prisons.Working with the people that we do and listening to theirlife stories, it’s clear that many don’t know of any other typeof society or background, other than the one that they arefrom. This can be rife with crime and unemployment etc.With this in mind, you would think that perhaps prison staffwould be more inclined to believe in a ‘broken society’, butI don’t think that this is true. Many of the staff that I haveworked with feel very strongly about helping offenders tochange their lives. They haven’t given up hope, so whyshould the rest of society? Personally speaking, this givesme an incentive to work even harder to try and helpoffenders get back on track and turn their lives around.Staff working in prisons offer a wealth of experience andexpertise to help offenders with the whole range ofproblems that they may face. If staff are given the time,training and most importantly money, then we are able tomake a real difference in terms of helping offenders addresstheir offending behaviour, offer them help and advice withproblems that they face, help to teach them new skills andoffer encouragement and support. For many offenders,prison presents an opportunity to turn their lives around. Ihave seen some real success stories in the past and that iswhat keeps staff going each day.

MB: Does imprisonment make it easier or harderfor prisoners to make positive changes to their lives?

CS: Although I do feel that prisons are the ideal placeto help with social problems, this can only happen if staffare given the resources with which to work their magic.Unfortunately, in the face of cuts to prison budgets, whatinterventions, services and help we can offer to offenderswill be significantly reduced.

MB: The Government wants to achieve what it iscalling a ‘rehabilitation revolution’. From your pointof view, what are the areas where more could bedone to help prisoners go straight on release?

CS: I’m not so sure about the term ‘revolution’, but wecertainly need to do something about the rate of re-offending as a matter of urgency and find a solution thatworks. Charities and local people have worked withprisoners for many years with varying degrees of success. Ibelieve that the good will is there and that this resourceshould be utilised wherever possible, but you can’t rely on

10 Issue 196

Interview: Senior Officer inTraining Services

Caroline Stimson is a Senior Officer working in Training Services for the Prison Service.She is interviewed by Maggie Bolger who is a Senior Manager in Training Services.



good will alone. To make things work, to move forwardwith this plan of reducing re-offending we need to makesure that the people working with offenders are wellinformed, well trained and most importantly are financiallywell backed. Without a financial commitment things aredone on half measures, without commitment andconsistency, and this leads to failure as both key workersand offenders become disillusioned in the work that isbeing done.

MB: What kind of work or training do you thinkcould be introduced to prisons?

CS: The work that we already do within prisons is ofgreat benefit to offenders. However, there is more that wecould offer. In terms of work, it is important to giveoffenders the opportunity to learn a trade or skill that theycan put to use when returning to the community. So manyoffenders don’t feel that they could get a job on releaseeven if they wanted to and I amsure that this is made even moredifficult in the current climate. Ibelieve that offenders shouldunderstand that they need tocontribute in to society and I feelthat this could start in prison. Iwould support offenders payingsome of their wages back in to theprison, as they would outside. Thismight help prisons to keepworkplaces running andwould helpprepare offenders for a morerealistic situation on release. Insome prisons, many offenders‘outwork’ during the day. Whereverpossible this should be encouraged,helping offenders reintegrate backin to society, but with a similar form of contribution, eitherto the prison, victims or charities should be put in to place.

In terms of training, this is another critical area. It isvital that we provide offenders with the appropriate trainingto help rehabilitate and reduce the risk of serious harm.More specialist training and interventions need to beoffered, in particular in areas such as alcohol, domesticviolence and female sex offenders where there are ashortage of interventions provided at the moment.Although offering work opportunities for offenders isgreatly needed, a greater emphasis should be placed onrehabilitation and reducing risk of serious harm first.

MB: Would you welcome the opportunity forprisoners to ‘pay something back’ to the communityfor their crimes, either financially, through some kindof unpaid work, or by meeting their victim?

CS: Yes, I would. Nothing in life comes for free,everything has to be earned, be that money, security,respect or even forgiveness. This is a message that needs tobe clear to offenders. This message isn’t in an easy one todeliver, offenders need to understand the true meaning of

this message rather than going through the motions.Understanding that being part of a society or communitymeans restricting their behaviour, being law abiding, andmost of all making a contribution, putting something backin to the society that they live in. This could be a financialcontribution, but other forms of contribution are alsoneeded to help offenders realise that they can become amember of society. Unpaid work, is a great starting pointand at least allows offenders the opportunities to get out into society and pay something back, very often they can alsodevelop skills that they need to help them secure paid workin the future. Restoratative justice needs to be carefullymanaged and I have heard of many success stories. Veryoften offenders don’t see or understand the effect that theyhave had on their victim and a greater appreciation of thelong term damage that their offending can have onpeople’s lives and families can help the offender as part of

their rehabilitation process and canon occasions help the victims cometo terms with what has happenedto them

MB: How has the prisonerexperience shifted in recentyears?

CS: From what I can see, weseem to be going round full circle.When I joined the service 10 yearsago, the emphasis was on prisonertime out of cell, ensuring that theywere engaging in purposefulactivities. Staff were encouraged tospend time with prisoners, workingwith them, getting to know them.This is all changing, now we seemto be locking the prisoners up for

longer and not being afforded the time to work with theprisoners. The range of activities offered to them is alsobeing reduced. This has to be attributed to cuts in fundingagain, Governors’ budgets are being squeezed so tightly,things have to give.

MB: How have prison-staff and staff-prisonerrelationships changed in recent years? How do youthink they could be improved?

CS: This is probably one of the biggest changes that Ihave seen in my time working for the Prison Service. WhenI joined the service we were encouraged to work withoffenders to talk to them and get to know them, this ischanging so quickly now and one of themain concerns thatI hear when speaking to prison and probation staff is thelack of time that they now have to work with offenders.Positive working relationships between staff and prisoners isa really important part of daily life in a prison for a numberof reasons. The most important reason is dynamic security,staff used to know their prisoners and spoke to them on aregular basis. This meant that staff knew what washappening in the prison, what the problems were and

Issue 196 11

Nothing in life comesfor free, everythinghas to be earned, bethat money, security,respect or even

forgiveness. This is amessage that needs

to be clearto offenders.



could try to do something about them. These relationshipskeep a prison safe and therefore go a long way to ensuringsafe environments for staff to work in and prisoners to livein. Most prisoners want to work with staff, they don’t wantto live in a chaotic, violent, unstable place and both partiesknew that by working together we were able to keepeveryone safer. These days staff are under pressure to domore work in less time and the consequence of this, meansthat staff-prisoner relationships are suffering.

Staff-prisoner relationships also allow staff the time towork with offenders, to lead by example. Much of thepositive work done with offenders is on the landings day today. Prisoners are treated with respect and decency andthey learn that these are earned by treating others in thesame way. Once again, these are messages that are lostwhen staff are too busy.

MB: How has the experience of working inprison changed in recent years?

CS: The biggest change has been what is nowexpected of the prison officer in their day to day role. As Ihave already mentioned, staff are expected to do more inless time. This particularly has an impact on the amount ofinteraction on the landings. There has also been an effectfrom the loss of the Principal Officer role and staff leavingdue to the Early Departure Scheme. Staff that I speak to tellme that they are expected to spendmore time office based,in front of computers or filling out paper work, rather thaninteracting with prisoners. Staff also tell me that they feeltheir job role has become diluted, their work is now moreabout meeting and achieving targets, rather thaninteracting with prisoners.

Staff have also told me that there is reduced teamwork as group working has reduced. In the past wings ordepartments have had a core group of staff dedicated tothat area. This allowed staff to get to know their offendersand there was a sense of consistency and stability. Now staffcan be detailed to work in all areas of the prison and thismeans that staff and prisoners work and live in an unsettledenvironment. This reduces the sense of ownership of theirwork and work area. There is also a sense of uncertaintythat comes from privatisation, cost cuts, increasedcompetition and threats to pensions. Even when I joinedthe Service I saw this job as a job for life and mostimportantly a career. I was proud to be a Prison Officer andfelt a sense of certainty about my future. Now, I, along withmany other staff work with uncertainty, this obviouslyeffects staff morale and our working life.

MB: What are the aspects of working in prisonthat people outside are least aware of?

CS: Strangely enough, the public and the media don’toften get to hear about the successes, the end result of a lotof hard work and commitment by both the offender andthe staff. I suppose that it is because these stories don’t sellpapers, make good viewing on the TV or win elections. Ifwe did focus more on successes then society would changetheir perception of what they consider to be normal.

MB: An increasing number of prisons arepotentially to be managed by private companies inthe near future and there will be potentially wideropportunities for the voluntary and charitable sector.What are the benefits and risks of these changes foryou?

CS: As a public sector prison officer my immediatereaction is that I am not in favour of the private sectorrunning our prisons, certainly not in the majority. However,I have tried to think about this rationally. The introduction ofprivate prisons has certainly required the public sector to‘up it’s game’ as it has introduced an element ofcompetition. If this makes our public sector prisons rethinkthe way that they operate and implement more efficientand effective measures then this can only be a good thing.I am not for doing things a certain way, just because theyhave always been done that way. However, I don’t believein makingmoney from the business of keeping offenders incustody and if making a profit is the overbearing objective,then the focus is less on the rehabilitation of offenders; it’smore about how they can do a ‘good enough’ job for theleast money

MB:What do you think are the biggest problemsin the prison system?

CS: The increasing prison population for all of thereasons that we have already discussed, the reduction inbudgets, the reduction in suitable and yet criticalinterventions available to offenders, the increasinguncertainty surrounding staff’s careers and futures. The listis endless and I am sure that I have missed many otherissues that affect staff and prisoners every day.

MB: What are the things that get in the way ofprisons being more like you would want them to be?

CS: The media and public perception are our biggestobstacles to prison reform. The public want to see us delivera hard line on offenders and this is encouraged by themedia. The public understand less that it is aboutrehabilitation and working with offenders to challenge theirbeliefs and change their behaviours, it’s not about lockingoffenders up 24 hours a day.

MB: If you could do one thing to improve theeffectiveness of the prison service, what would it be?

CS: I have given this a lot of thought and I am just notable to come up with one thing above anything else thatwould improve effectiveness. Better communicationamongst managers and staff, between agencies anddepartments is essential to improve effective practice,including less duplication of processes which can appearunnecessary and most of all are very time consuming. Timeto allow staff to do their jobs to the best of their ability isalso important along with support frommanagement. Lessuncertainty about the future of our jobs and the PrisonService as a whole will let staff get back to focusing onwhatis important, their work and engaging and workingalongside prisoners to provide a safe, stable and decentenvironment.

12 Issue 196



Derek Shorthouse has been an instructionalofficer at HMP Long Lartin since 1989. Before thathe served an engineering apprenticeship andworked in that industry for six years. He initiatedthe woodworking workshop at Long Lartin, whichnowmakes garden furniture. Prisoners working inthe shop achieve National Open College Networkqualifications, and many of the products are sold,while arrangements are currently being made forBarnardo’s to take offcuts from the workshop tosell in their own outlets.

MK: From your perspective, what are theeffects of the fact that we are locking upincreasing numbers of people in prison? What arethe consequences for you of prisons being full?

DS: Over the period of time I have been workinghere, there have been a larger amount of people comingin with a range of different abilities. Back in 1989 a lot ofpeople were qualified, whereas now people are comingin with very little in the way of qualifications. So in thearea where I work, in woodwork and the like, we aregiven that opportunity to develop their skills. But thepopulation has had an impact on the regime, in terms ofthe numbers you’re controlling. The workshop ratioshave increased; there are more lads coming into theworkshops than a few years ago.

MK: Politicians often use the term ‘BrokenSociety’ Do you think this describes the world thatthe prisoners you work with come from?

DS: Occasionally, yes. But by the same token, weare finding that people who come from very goodbackgrounds have not got the level of ability, the levelof education you might expect — not switched on, forwant of a better phrase. We do try to encourage eachperson, but then again, you do have that ‘brokensociety’, where you can see that the supportmechanisms have not been there — issues of familyand background that have had an impact on their verysurvival plan, as it were. So their response has been todo other things, rather than get involved with trying tobetter themselves.

MK: Do you think prisons can help with socialproblems like unemployment, drug use and familybreakdown?

DS: Yes, with the type of courses that are madeavailable; for example in the workshop areas, there areposters up about where they can go to try and address

the issues around their offending. We do it on avoluntary basis, when they feel ready to address theproblems that they’ve had outside. But we can also beproactive in offering it to them. Because we’re on thecivilian side, they tend to open up a little. So they tell usa few issues, and we can then discuss with the variousareas — maybe CARATs1. Or we can just pass oninformation about what the concern may be — we mayhave found that they’re just not settling, or they’re notthinking — sometimes you find the tell-tale signs ofdrowsiness or whatever that just indicate there is aproblem somewhere.

MK: Does imprisonment make it easier orharder for prisoners to make positive changes totheir lives?

DS: I’d have mixed emotions about that, becauseI’ve actually experienced seeing people that haveshown good signs of progress, and I’ve also seen theother side where it doesn’t do anything, they’re still inthat same mode irrespective of who talks to them. Itcan be a bit of both. But by and large, I’d say themajority of those I’ve come across have shownimprovement — not necessarily a fantasticimprovement, but a real one. I think that is down togood teamwork. From the workshops, that is aboutprisoners speaking to the staff and then passing thatinformation through to the various areas — you needthat communication, and the connection with theprisoner as well.

When I started back in 1989, we didn’t getinvolved in this sort of thing, whereas now we’regetting more involved with the prisoners’ well-being.

MK: The Government wants to achieve whatit is calling a ‘rehabilitation revolution’. From yourpoint of view, what are the areas where morecould be done to help prisoners go straight onrelease?

DS: There’s quite an odd balance here really. Theonly way to explain it is — they’ve got their own minds,and sometimes you can give them that advice to gostraight, but at the end of the day it’s their mindset.We’re trying to rearrange it to suit ourselves, but inreality 70-75 per cent of their input is from themselves— we are the ones who are trying to grab an extra fewpercent off them, to try to direct them. We can help,we can support, we can do everything we can, but themajority is going to be within themselves.

Issue 196 13

Interview: Instructional OfficerDerek Shorthouse is an instructional officer at HMP Long Lartin and is interviewed byMartin Kettle who is a

senior operational manager currently seconded to HM Inspectorate of Prisons.

1. Counselling, advice, referral and treatment for substance misuse.



I have spoken to some of the prisoners who havebeen on some of the offending behaviourprogrammes. You’ll get a percentage who will say‘We’ll give them the answers they want’. Others willsay ‘I realise what I did wrong. I should have donethat.’ Then it starts to take effect. I do happen to seeoccasionally prisoners that have come in perhaps twoyears ago, quite aggressive, and they have nowcalmed down, and they’re actually saying ‘I’ve got toremember to behave here, otherwise I won’t get thatlater’. It’s a matter of time.

MK: What kind of work or training do youthink could be introduced to prisons?

DS: There are some basic practical skills we cangive people. We could teach them how to repairwashing machines and cookers. We can give them thebelief that yes, we can do these trades. We shouldalso focus on things that we doat home, just domestic choreslike being able to clean out acooker, learning how to putthese things together and notbe reliant on other people. It’sconfidence as much as anything.A lot of people haven’t learntthat practical ability. Some of itis not that they can’t do it; it isthat they don’t believe they cando it. We can give them thatencouragement and theopportunity to learn thosetrades.

Work can also get peopleinto a way of thinking. Outsidewe get up, we go to work at acertain time and come back. That is how they need tothink rather than a couple of hours here and a coupleof hours there. It’s the discipline side. That is that theyare there from morning to the end of the day anddon’t go anywhere in between. Getting into thatdiscipline side is good.

MK: Would you welcome the opportunity forprisoners ‘pay something back’ to thecommunity for your crimes, either financially,through some kind of unpaid work, or bymeeting their victim?

DS: What you’re looking at is the type of thingwe’re doing with the Barnardo’s charity. The prisonersare doing something that’s worthwhile, and it’s goingback to a charity organisation, they’re actually puttingback into the community. They’re being paid to work,but not getting any bonus or the like for the extra theydo, they do it for the love of doing it because it’sgoing to a charity. That sort of thing has an effect on

a lot of people. To give you an example, I’ve got aprisoner at the moment who comes from a children’shome and he’s absolutely over the moon aboutproducing work for Barnados and giving back tothem. Maybe he’s telling us that he wants to paysomething back for what he didn’t appreciate whenhe was younger. That’s they way I’d be looking at it.

MK: How has the prisoner experience shiftedin recent years?

DS: There are a lot more opportunities forprisoners now than in years gone by. Under the IEPscheme2, they’re given a lot more now. Years ago itwas a matter of ‘No, you don’t have that, you havethis and this only’. Now there are options, the threedifferent levels based on behaviour. It has becomemore discriminating, where before it was just ‘you canor you can’t’, in simple terms. And prisoners

understand more than they didin the past, about how thingsrun.

MK: How have prison-staff and staff-prisonerrelationships changed inrecent years? How do youthink they could beimproved?

DS: They have improved onthe whole. In a workshopenvironment, because the staffare civilian there’s more rapport,prisoners open up to staff, soyou get information withoutgiving them information. Withofficers that doesn’t happen soeasily, because of the barrier of

the uniform.MK: How has the experience of working in

prison changed in recent years?DS: Obviously things have changed, but basically

what’s happened is we have gone full circle a coupleof times! It’s gone from finding things easy to difficultto easy and so on. You can get down, and into a bit ofa rut at times, and what perks you up is to find achallenge. I do the same with prisoners: if we can givethem a little challenge, we see them change.

MK: What are the aspects of working inprison that people outside are least aware of?

DS: People don’t know enough. I hear peoplesaying that prisoners should have bread and water,and saying that it’s like a holiday camp. They see theTV programmes, the series like Bad Girls and whatnot, and they believe that’s how it runs. They areforgetting that these people are human, and we’vegot to treat them as humans. In general, prisoners are

14 Issue 196

2. Incentives and earned privileges.

It’s confidence asmuch as anything. Alot of people haven’tlearnt that practicalability. Some of it isnot that they can’tdo it; it is that theydon’t believe they

can do it.



treated a lot better now than they were when Istarted; there is more respect in prison and on thewhole prisoners treat staff with more respect.

MK: An increasing number of prisons arepotentially to be managed by private companiesin the near future and there will be potentiallywider opportunities for the voluntary andcharitable sector. What are the benefits and risksof these changes for you?

DS: The professional manner in which thesepeople need to be managed and challenged needs askilled organisation. It’s not an everyday job thatanybody could do. I’ve experienced people who havecome for interviews, opened the gate, looked inside,and say: ‘I can’t come in. I don’t like the sound of thatgate shutting behind’. It’s not as easy as people think.I think the public sector have got it under control. Itwould take a lot of effort to maintain that quality andit would be very difficult to step in and improve howthings run.

MK: What do you think are the biggestproblems in the prison system?

DS: Morale has dropped. To a large extent this isdue to outside factors like finances, pay cuts, budgets,and the unemployment outside. The job is morepressured, because the job has to be done correctlyand the slightest mistake is not going to be missed.You are being watched, more so than you ever were inthe past, and that adds extra pressure.

MK: What are the things that get in the wayof prisons being more like what you would wantthem to be?

DS: Budgets is one of the biggest, because you’rerestricting yourself on how much effort you can put into making sure you get the maximum from thoseprisoners. An example is prisoner ratios, whereworkshops are employing higher numbers ofprisoners. That does cause some problems as the risksgo up and staff can feel more isolated. It’s a difficultbalance between efficiency, safety and quality.

MK: If you could do one thing to improve theeffectiveness of the prison service, what would itbe?

DS: I would like to get the staff on the same sideand keep them together. We should be a team.Whether you’re management level, or civilian level, ora cleaner — all should be at the same level. You’re allworking at the same place with your own bit of input,and all should be valued equally. The same withprisoners; it goes back to the old saying of ‘treatpeople as you would be treated’. With prisoners,you’re not always going to get every prisoner who’sgoing to treat us well, and vice versa, so it’s getting ahappy medium, but the main thing is to get everybodyon the same side. In all these discussions it alwayscomes back to communication; that we all need tokeep communicating.

Issue 196 15



John Richards is a prisoner at HMP PentonvillePrison, serving a four-year sentence. He hasrecently embarked on an Open University courseof study which he intends to continue on releasefrom custody, leading to a first degreequalification. Among many activities, he is awing representative, a listener, chapel orderly,and is employed as a cleaner.

RT: From your perspective, what are theeffects of the fact that we are locking upincreasing numbers of people in prison? What arethe consequences for you of prisons being full?

JR: Putting more and more people in prison isn’tworking. That’s the bottom line. To imprison someonefor a minor offence, with a sentence of 12 months orless, where they haven’t done the crime of thecentury, means that you are just adding to theovercrowding. I once spent some time in Belmarshand you have guys there who are in for drivingoffences being treated like Cat A prisoners. This isjust madness. I spoke to someone in the chapel hereat Pentonville the other day and asked him how longhe was in for and he said ‘three weeks’. What’s thepoint of that? Prison should be reserved for seriousand violent offenders.

RT: Politicians often use the term ‘BrokenSociety’ Do you think this describes the worldyou come from?

JR: I don’t know about ‘broken society’ but I dothink that prisons should help more with problemslike housing. I spoke to someone the other day whowill soon be released after a nine-month sentence.His licence conditions are numerous but, as he says,‘how can I stick to them without a roof over myhead?’ People need more help with housing. Theyneed a roof over their heads. It would help prisonersgreatly if they knew they would get out withsomewhere to live. Most people want a place of theirown. They don’t want to end up sleeping on otherpeople’s floors. If you knew you were going out tosheltered accommodation, it would be a start in theright direction.

RT: Do you think prisons can help with socialproblems like unemployment, drug use andfamily breakdown?

JR: Unemployment is a big problem. Withemployment, the buck stops with you but, when youcome into prison, the opportunities are not there to

better yourself. From a personal point of view, I amquite impressed with the education courses on offer,here at Pentonville. I am on an Open University courseand was quite impressed that I was able to get thefunding for that. Years ago it would not have beendone. As far as family life is concerned, I think theydo quite a bit to support us. They give us extra ‘familyday’ visits which is a good start. It’s a lot better thanit used to be but how far do you go? After all, prisonis meant to be a punishment. Other than that, I thinkthat the police and schools could make a bettercontribution to educating children about what it’s likecoming to prison.

RT: Does imprisonment make it easier orharder for you to make positive changes to yourlife?

JR: With a lot of time to think about whereyou’ve gone wrong, you can make positive changes.You have time to reflect and, if you have hadproblems with drugs, for instance, it’s a perfect timeto make those changes. On this basis, I would saythat it is easier to make positive changes to your life.

RT: The Government wants to achieve whatit is calling a ‘rehabilitation revolution’. Fromyour point of view, what are the areas wheremore could be done to help prisoners go straighton release?

JR: I do believe it is possible. If they helped morewith employment and training — somethingworthwhile like a trade — then that’s the rightdirection. It’s all about work. If they could dosomething worthwhile while in prison, earn a decentsum of money, and have that money deposited in anaccount for when they are released, then this moneycould maybe be used to get a roof over your head, orfurther training. People are coming out on the streetwith no employment prospects and no money tospend. It’s a bad start and they end up going straightback into crime because they need the money. If youhave a criminal record, you are up against it anyway.In Pentonville, we have training run by an outside hirecompany. As I understand it, they may offer a job totrainees after they have been released. This kind ofthing has got to be a big help.

RT: What kind of work or training do youthink could be introduced to prisons?

JR: Some people have been criminals all their life.To go out there and not get into that same routine is

16 Issue 196

Interview: Prisoner in a local prisonJohn Richards is a convicted prisoner, currently serving a sentence at HMP Pentonville.

He is interviewed by Ray Taylor, who is a prison officer at HMP Pentonville.



a hard thing to do. But if they were able to doworthwhile courses, to learn a proper trade, theywould stand a much better chance on the outside. Iknow a lot of prisons do this but there needs to bemore of this kind of thing made available. Comingout of prison with a skill like bricklaying, for example,is a good thing to do. It’s bound to help.

RT: Would you welcome the opportunity to‘pay something back’ to the community for yourcrimes, either financially, through some kind ofunpaid work, or by meeting your victim?

JR: Depending on what the crime was, a meetingwith your victim — if you aretruly sorry — would give themthe chance to see you in adifferent light and perhaps giveclosure to whatever crime wascommitted.

RT: How has the prisonerexperience shifted in recentyears?

JR: I have seen a lot ofchanges over the years since myfirst time in prison in 1988. Inthose days, we didn’t have TVs,kettles or even sanitation in ourcells, let alone access to phones.We had none of this. All we hadwas a radio for company andplenty of letter writing. Thefood, in particular, is a hugeimprovement. Now you get adecent solid meal on your plateand plenty of choice. A lot ofpeople still complain about thefood but twenty years ago, allyou got on your plate was slops.

The NHS coming in has alsomade a big improvement. You get a very good serviceall round. Some things could still be improved, suchas specialist services like dentistry but, on the whole,health care is excellent.

Other positives include the greater use ofprisoner reps, listeners, equality reps and anti-bullyingwork by prisoners working with the establishment asa whole. And of course, the drug-related supportservices such as CARATS are immensely valuable andbeneficial.

Training and education has been improved agreat deal too, but I feel that there is a lot more thatcan be achieved. More could be done that is work-related, for example the Clink restaurant at HMPHighdown, recently featured on BBC TV. This is agood example of how training prisoners for avaluable work skill can help stop them reoffending onthe outside.

RT: How have prison-staff and staff-prisonerrelationships changed in recent years? How doyou think they could be improved?

JR: The prison experience is not just a questionof TVs and kettles. Everything now has movedforward. We have come a long way since those badold days. The most important change of all, in myview, is how much better the staff and prisonerrelationship is. It’s a lot more relaxed and friendly. Youcan stop and have a chat with an officer. In somecases you may even be on first-name terms. It has gotto be better. It can’t be a bad thing if you feel

comfortable coming to anofficer to talk. With the public-spending cutbacks, I feel that it’sgoing to get worse before it canget better and this could have anegative effect on prisons as awhole. I am particularlyconcerned about the potentialfor deterioration of the staff-inmate relationship. I wouldhate to see us going back to thedays when you’re spendingmore time locked up in your cell.This is bound to have a negativeeffect and we could end upgoing back to the bad old them-and-us relationship betweenstaff and prisoners.

RT: What are the aspectsof being in prison thatpeople outside are leastaware of?

JR: Regardless of whatpeople think, the fact remainsthat prisoners are still lockedaway from where we want to

be. That’s a punishment. Away from loved ones andplaces we would rather be, being told when to eat,exercise, and just about everything else that peopletake for granted. In time, you becomeinstitutionalised.

RT: An increasing number of prisons arepotentially to be managed by private companiesin the near future and there will be potentiallywider opportunities for the voluntary andcharitable sector. What are the benefits and risksof these changes for you?

JR: To be honest, I have no experience ofprivately-run prisons and so I have nothing to base anopinion on. I have heard that living conditions insome private prisons are very good but cannot speakfor myself.

RT: What do you think are the biggestproblems in the prison system?

Issue 196 17

The most importantchange of all, in myview, is how muchbetter the staff andprisoner relationshipis. It’s a lot more

relaxed and friendly.You can stop andhave a chat with anofficer. In some

cases you may evenbe on first-nameterms. It has got to

be better.



JR: The biggest problem has always been drugs.And it’s got much worse, with the widespread use ofheroin being a particular problem. Heroin used to befrowned upon by prisoners but now it is accepted bymany as a way of life.

RT: What are the things that get in the wayof prisons being more like you would want themto be?

JR: I would say this is mostly a question ofavailable resources. I would like to see moreeducation and training, more time out of cell doingconstructive things. But these all cost money and, inthe current economic climate, I can’t see where themoney to do these things will come from.

RT: If you could do one thing to improve theeffectiveness of the prison service, what wouldit be?

JR: If I could introduce one change in the prisonsystem it would be to pay top money to people whowant to use their time to educate themselves.Currently, they are the worst paid. Where’s theincentive if you are paying people more to clean thelandings than you are for them to learn how to readand write or to learn a new work skill? Some blokescome in with no qualifications. When they see theirname on a certificate it makes a huge difference tothem. It helps them to have pride in their work and tostart believing in themselves. They want to carry onand do more and more to improve their chances. Andonce you get going with education, the next stepshould be work placement.

18 Issue 196



Sanjar Jamolov has been a prisoner at HMPWormwood Scrubs since 2010. Before coming toprison he worked as a painter in London.

RB: From your perspective what are thecauses of the fact that we are locking upincreasing numbers of people in prison?

SJ: That’s a very hard question and very goodquestion as well. It depends how we are looking at it.I would say if the life was better outside andeverybody got enough money to look after themselvesthey won’t do any robberies, they won’t do any stupidthings and there would be less people in prison. It’sthe quality of the life: if you give them enough thenthey won’t be here.

But from another view everybody does mistakes.We can stop them: instead of putting them in prisonto give them punishment we cangive them differentpunishments. We can give themfree works to do like communityworks. And in the same timethey can learn as well: we cangive them opportunities to startto learn something. Then we willsave on the money: electricity,rent, food, you know.

RB: Politicians often usethe term ‘broken society’. Doyou think this describes theworld you come from?

SJ: Yeah. Families have always got the problemsto look after children, pay taxes, and from there startsthe problems. If they can afford to pay they won’t bein the trouble.

And at the same time as well everybody likesdrinking and abusing drugs. Most people outsidedon’t think for the future. But that’s not the issue. Wehave to help them to stand up on their feet, pay forthe mortgages or electricity. Then they won’t feel anyproblems. Once they don’t feel any problems therewon’t be any troubles.

RB: Do you think prisons can help with socialproblems like unemployment and familybreakdown?

SJ:With drugs they can help. They can explain likeI do to teach my kid: it’s not good to take drugs, you aregoing to be in trouble, your health will be in trouble.

Also, if you cooperate with the government toget jobs we could organise something for prisoners. Infact we have workshops. And they are not bad to behonest with you. They are very good. But it will bemore good if you can do electrician courses, buildingcourses, plumbing courses. That is an opportunity tolearn something and get qualifications and startworking.

And I had a job in the prison kitchen as a chef.And that might help me get a job in future.

RB: Does imprisonment make it easier orharder for you to make positive changes to yourlife?

SJ: It is hard to go back to life outside. It will beharder for me going back because I lost a lot. Myfamily and my kids might turn away from me. As thejudge called me a criminal they might call me the

same. So I don’t want to be introuble. I don’t want to doanything criminal and comeback to prison. Because afterthat if I go out it will be very, veryhard to go back to same life. Ialready lost my job. I’m not sureif I’m going to get the same jobback or not. So it will be harderthan before.

But also there are somethings that prison can makeeasier. For example if somebody

doesn’t have any place to live they will organise foryou to get a place.

RB: The government wants to achieve whatit is calling a ‘rehabilitation revolution’. Fromyour point of view, what are the areas wheremore could be done to help that to happen?

SJ: First of all I think they have to cooperate withprisoners. If you cooperate with prisoners, ask themwhat is the necessary things for prisoners torehabilitate, or if they need learn something beforethey go out, even ask them if they need help tomanage to look after themselves mentally orpsychologically.

You can take 40 or 50 people and ask them ‘whatdo you think?’ and everybody will have a differentopinion, obviously. But let them have a view what isthe opinion from the prisoner side. Not always justwhat the government says.

Issue 196 19

Interview: Prisoner in a local prisonSanjar Jamolov is a serving prisoner at HMP Wormwood Scrubs. He is interviewed by

Dr. Rachel Bell who is a senior officer at HMYOI Feltham.

It is hard to go backto life outside. Itwill be harder forme going back

because I lost a lot.



RB: What kind of work or training do youthink could be introduced to prisons?

SJ: It could be construction courses, electriciancourses, plumbing courses, carpentry courses or evenhealth and safety courses. And we could teach theforeigner prisoners how to behave themselves in UK,to learn the UK law, what is the life in the UK: StPatrick’s day, St George’s day and all that. Why not?They want to be British citizens. That’s a kind of helpas well, and they can do it here.

RB: Would you welcome the opportunity topay something back to the community for yourcrimes, either financially, by unpaid work orthrough meeting your victim?

SJ: Yes. But we are paying already for crime.Whoever does a crime is paying in a prison: they arereceiving already thepunishment in a prison. If youwant some more money backthey have to have a good job topay the money back. You shouldnot squeeze them as much aspossible. It is a good idea to paysomething back but instead ofbeing here, let’s work outside,earn money, and give you themoney. Why not?

And Benedict the Pope, theperson tried to kill him and thePope went to prison and he sawhim, he talked to him. That’s avery good idea, why not?Apologising. Not onlyapologising and asking forforgiveness but having free speech with him as well.Maybe it was a misunderstanding, communicationproblem or drug abuse problem which forced you tobe in the crime. From the victim’s side as well: so manyvictims are abusing drugs or position or so manythings and then they blame somebody else.

RB: How could prisoner-staff and staff-prisoner relationships be improved?

SJ: With more respect I think. They don’t have totreat the prisoners as criminals. We are criminals butat the same time if you call us prisoners as well asbeing in prison it is painful. Instead of treating themwith respect, saying: ‘you are still a criminal, you haveto listen to me, you have to follow my rules’.

We are not asking them to do anything for us, tobring anything for us. We are just asking them to helpus if we’ve got a problem like contact numbers andcanteen problems. If they respect their job and us itwill be much easier.

RB: What are the aspects of being in prisonthat people outside are least aware of?

SJ: Not many people outside know about prison.Whoever has been here knows, but not the peopleoutside. Alright everybody might have smallconversations with family members or friends: ‘Wegot canteen in the prison1, we got this, we got that.’But full imagination other people don’t have unlessthey see it.

And people outside don’t know what a ‘redband’2 job is until you explain it and show them andexplain that a red band must go around the prisonand work, and that he has to wear a green jacket. Somany people they don’t know.

RB: An increasing number of prisons arepotentially to be managed by private companies

in the near future. And therewill potentially be wideropportunities for charitiesand the voluntary sector.What are the benefits and therisks of those changes foryou?

SJ: I don’t agree with givingjobs to private companies. Butmore charities in prison wouldbe good, very good. Why not?But from my point of view I cando charity work as well: I am apainter. I could take ten peopleand teach them how to do it.Charity could provide us with thematerials. And that would bekind of pay back as well. I could

show that I’m really sorry, I’d do that. And I will dodefinitely a good job!

RB: What do you think are the biggestproblems in the prison system?

SJ: Oh, I can’t answer that! The biggestproblems… there are no big problems I don’t think.There are small problems which can become big if wecover our eyes. But right now there isn’t anything.There are problems which could become big problemsif we don’t fix them within one or two years time.

For example: respect. It looks small but it is a bigproblem as well if you are behind the bars and nobodyis helping you to put your phone number in yourphone book, or letters are missing, or you neverreceive your money sent in, or if you order canteenand it doesn’t come, or if there is something missing.Then you have to chase, tell them [officers] ‘please canyou phone the canteen?’ And then your money is notin your account, you don’t have it to spend. That is a

20 Issue 196

It is a good idea topay something backbut instead of beinghere, let’s workoutside, earn

money, and give youthe money.Why not?

1. ‘Canteen’ is the prison shop.2. A job in which a prisoner has a trusted position with greater freedom of movement in the establishment.



big problem. You lose a week: your time, your nerves.That is a big problem. Behind the doors it is big. Butfrom the other side there isn’t anybig problems.

RB: What are the thingsthat get in the way of prisonsbeing more like you wouldwant them to be?

SJ: I call myself a normal man,not bad. I’m not bad because myparents, they taught me how tobehave myself, to have respect forpeople, respect everyone. Everybodycan do bad things but it is difficult todo good things. If you are good,simple, honest, you won’t have anyproblems.

But the problem is howpeople are brought up, theirmentality, and how they treatpeople. We have to teach them.With our help, with our politicians’help, with our government, with our prison staff —we have to help them. Not only with our idea of prisonand believing that they deserve to be here and shouldpay the punishment. Instead we have to talk to them,see what they need. Instead of being behind theirdoor, we have to teach them how to behave

themselves. Everybody must do thinking programs.Even shoplifters should have to learn thinking

programmes.Yes it would be good to

teach people how to think,how to communicate, how torelate to other people. Maybenobody taught them. Maybethey didn’t have a mother toteach them. Maybe theydidn’t go to school or learn.Maybe they were onlydrinking, drug using, stealing.I know people that have 25convictions — I can’t imaginehow it’s possible to get thatmuch convictions! Twenty-five… it’s impossible!

RB: And if you could doone thing to improve theeffectiveness of the prisonservice what would it be?

SJ: The dental service should be improved as thewaiting time is currently 6-8 weeks. On release day,people should be helped so they don’t live on thestreets and commit crime again. They needaccommodation and a job. If they had that therewould be less crime.

Issue 196 21

I’m not bad becausemy parents, theytaught me how tobehave myself, tohave respect forpeople, respect

everyone. Everybodycan do bad thingsbut it is difficult todo good things.



Debra Walton is a prisoner at Eastwood Parkserving a four year sentence for financial fraud. Shehas completed several courses in the educationdepartment during her sentence and has theobjective of completing a counselling qualification.She is a listener and is currenly employed as anorderly.

ML: From your perspective, what are the effectsof the fact that we are locking up increasingnumbers of people in prison? What are theconsequences for you of prisons being full?’

DW: Services are plainly over-stretched and officersare not able to spend as much time with individualprisoners, particularly personal officers. There are stillsome officers who make time, but on the whole they areover-stretched and with the cuts we are having that’sgoing to get worse.

ML: Politicians often use the term ‘BrokenSociety’ Do you think this describes the world youcome from?

DW: It doesn’t apply to me, but I do recognise it formany of the others. The size of the drug and alcoholproblem is huge and for me, first time in prison, it’s a realeye opener. It’s not just the prisoner who’s on drugs oralcohol, it’s the entire family.

ML: Do you think prisons can help with socialproblems like unemployment, drug use and familybreakdown?

DW: Well, they’re doing a good job by providingmethadone de-tox if they’re here long enough, which isgood. And you do see girls here desperately wanting tostay off drugs when they go back out. Unfortunately theyare going back to an area where there are no jobs andthey have lost their homes. They go into hostels wherethey are mixing with alcoholics and drug users and beforelong they’re back on the drugs. It’s a vicious circle and inthe time I’ve been in here there are several girls who havebeen in three times, and that’s down to drug use. Itdoesn’t seem to make much difference what the prisondoes, it’s not followed up outside to keep them off drugsand stop them coming back. The job situation is the samefor everybody, but if you’ve just come out of prison andhave been on drugs it’s a real problem. Of course if you’rein a hostel a lot of employers won’t take you on either. Ican’t see how it can change. It goes beyond prisons.

ML: Does imprisonment make it easier orharder for you to make positive changes to yourlife?

DW: It’s a bit of both. For me it’s certainly easierbecause I have time to re-educate and retrain and worktowards what I want to do when I get out, but I can’t doit properly because of the facilities that are available. I’mtrying to retrain as a counsellor and I could really do withaccess to the internet. I understand why we can’t havethis but it would be useful if we could go to restrictedsites. I’ve done as much as I can here but have come upagainst a brick wall now. For others I know that distancelearning is difficult as by the time they’ve applied forfunding they’ve missed out on the course because it takesa long time to get the funding organised. We are aremand prison so it’s difficult.

ML: The Government wants to achieve what itis calling a ‘rehabilitation revolution’. From yourpoint of view, what are the areas wheremore couldbe done to help prisoners go straight on release?

DW: This comes back to the cycle of drug use. TheGovernment needs to address this. Yes, prisons can getwomen clean and genuinely wanting a new life but untilthey put facilities in place outside and jobs, housing andbenefits they are not going to be rehabilitatingsuccessfully. The revolution needs a lot more support fromoutside. Another big problem is that the criminal recordschecks take so long and if you’re waiting to start a job andyou’re on the dole, you get desperate and youraspirations fade. If you can’t get a job sorted within amonth you go back to your old ways just to survive.

ML:What kind ofwork or training do you thinkcould be introduced to prisons?

DW: That’s not easy. We had some wonderfulcourses here. Textiles and needlework, though there arevery few clothing manufacturers outside now, so that’sno longer any use. Painting and decorating would bebrilliant, but perhaps we should look at trades such asplumbing or electrician. It’s what the country needs afterall and it would provide an opportunity for somebody.

There are jobs that prisoners could do that arecurrently being done by the administative staff. Of coursethey can’t do the security stuff and I wouldn’t expectthem to do so, but there’s no reason why prisoners can’thelp with issuing visiting orders for example once theprisoner is set up on the system. There are actually a lot ofjobs that prisoners could do office wise. Everything seemsto take so long in the administration department and Ioften think ‘let me have a go. I’d get it sorted’. A lot of usare quite capable of doing a lot more than they give uscredit for. I just feel that in these days of austerity it really

22 Issue 196

Interview: Prisoner in a femaleclosed prison

Debra Walton is a prisoner at Eastwood Park serving a sentence for financial fraud andMonica Lloyd is based in Rehabilitation Services Group at NOMS headquarters.



is time that they started looking at those prisoners whohave the ability to help.

ML: Would you welcome the opportunity to‘pay something back’ to the community for yourcrimes, either financially, through some kind ofunpaid work, or by meeting your victim?

DW: It is costing the Government thousands ofpounds to keep me here. I strongly feel that that moneywould have been better spent if I’d been given asentence that required me to pay something back to thecommunity. I’ve spoken to others and most agree withme, if it’s for non-violent crime. With drugs it’s different.You have to get your de-tox. But for those who are noton drugs and are not violent all you are doing is removingthem from society at great cost, and you’re losingeverything when you come into prison — your home,your possessions, often your children — your whole life.It’s a big price to pay.

ML: How has the prisoner experience shiftedin recent years?

DW: There’s more lock upnow because of staff shortages. Ingeneral I hear the girls saying itnever used to be like this.

ML: How have prison-staffand staff-prisonerrelationships changed inrecent years? How do youthink they could be improved?’

DW: Relationships betweenstaff and prisoners have to begood, the morale of the prisonhinges on staff and prisoners getting on. If they’re notyou are going to have trouble. Respect goes a long way.There has to be respect both ways and if things aren’t fairthat’s where problems start. If you put into an applicationyou may get one answer and a girl in the other roomgets a different answer to the same question.

There is not enough flexibility to allow for individualdifferences. Some of us are educated and able to do anawful lot of good for the prison and help. A lot of us arequite capable of doing a lot more than they give us creditfor. I feel that in these days of austerity it really is timethat they started looking at those prisoners who have theability to help.

ML: What are the aspects of being in prisonthat people outside are least aware of?

DW: The time it takes to do things. It took three anda half weeks to get my first visiting order, and that was animportant one as it was my first time in prison. Myparents needed to know that I was alright and if I’d hadchildren wanting to see me it would have been dreadful.And when you ring people they say can you ring backlater? But, sorry no, we are locked up at 5 o’clock. Theydon’t realise there are restrictions. Another thing are

restrictions like not being allowed fabric to make curtainsfor my room because it is not fire retardant, and you arenot allowed to be sent in magazines. Nobody explainswhy. It’s silly little things that create frustration.

ML: An increasing number of prisons arepotentially to be managed by private companies inthe near future and there will be potentially wideropportunities for the voluntary and charitablesector. What are the benefits and risks of thesechanges for you?

DW: It’s obviously another way of the Governmentsaving money. As long as they are regulated in the sameway I don’t see that as a massive problem. At the end ofthe day if the country is in trouble we have to makesavings. As for the charitable sector being involved,great, as long as it’s not just for drugs and alcohol. Thereare other people who need help, and it needs to befollowed through into the outside as well.

ML: What do you think are the biggestproblems in the prison system?

DW: It’s down to the prisonerthemselves but the whole idea ofthe prison regime is to provideeducation and to make us moreemployable. There is a lack ofdiscipline in the classroom and alack of respect that disruptslessons for the majority. The otherthing is they have some wonderfulcourses and they are a bit over-focussed on catering for drugsand alcohol and nothing else, such

as for mental health.ML: What are the things that get in the way of

prisons being more like you would want them tobe?

DW: The one thing that did surprise me when Icame into this prison were the stunning grounds and it’svery pleasant. It gives you every opportunity to dosomething with your time, but there are people who cangive more. At the end of the day we are stuck here andwant to do things to help, but are hampered at everyturn.

ML: If you could do one thing to improve theeffectiveness of the prison service, what would itbe?

DW: I would like to sort out the mountains of paperthat are produced. For example I am on medication forvarious things and failed a mandatory drug test the otherday, having signed the form to say that I was onmedication. I ended up on two charges for which therewas reams of paper produced, all representing time andmoney. Why? A simple phone call to health care staffwould have prevented it all. It just seemed like an awfulwaste of time and money, and there is a lot of it.

Issue 196 23

There’s more lockup now because ofstaff shortages. Ingeneral I hear thegirls saying it neverused to be like this.



Jim Simmonds is a 50 year old unmarried fatherof two children. He is a life-sentenced prisonerwith a tariff of 4 years and 6 months in respect ofhis most recent offence of armed robbery. He hasserved almost a decade in prison for thissentence. He has served four previous custodialsentences spanning a 26 year period

MA: From your perspective, what are theeffects of the fact that we are locking upincreasing numbers of people in prison? Whatare the consequences for you of prisons beingfull?’

JS: For me, I think it is an unstable environmentbecause there seems to be no direction at themoment. My sentence doesn’t exist anymore. IPPsentences1 were brought in in 2005 and things havebeen rearranged twice since then. I am part of a‘forgotten group of people’ because IPPs are beingprioritised, but this is wrong. I know there is a build-up of IPPs in Cat B prisons. Some of these are reallydangerous people but some of these are young kidslearning tricks and traits to survive in prison.

I have noticed a really quick turnover of prisonersnow. For instance there have been five differentServery Lads on my wing in two months. We’ve gotcategory B and category C lads here because it’s about‘heads on beds’. Previously staff had more time toassess you against set criteria. They could monitoryour demeanour and assess changes and things likevictim empathy, all of which would be taken intoconsideration before you could be downgraded. Thisused to be done by a dedicated group of staff whogot to know you. Now because of policies andbudgets governors have staff doing other things. Forinstance staff are being used to do the census, andthe prison closed down to do it. Prisoners like me, IPPsand lifers would rather have a lockdown to get ourreports done. My Board is nine months late.

MA: Politicians often use the term ‘BrokenSociety’ Do you think this describes the worldyou come from?

JS: No. I was damaged goods long before theyeven thought of the ‘Broken Society’. My MP knowsnothing of the real people of the constituency, apartfrom what he gets in his surgery. He is a barrister — notmany off my estate became barristers! My role modelswere builders. Now I am too old for certain jobs.

MA: Do you think prisons can help withsocial problems like unemployment, drug useand family breakdown?

JS: Yes, especially with family interaction. There isa family link worker to help with Family Days and LiferDays and more family friendly visits and access tovisits. On the downside though there are too manydepartments now. We used to have the old SWIPofficer2 who knew your wife and they knew thelandings and people on them — what was going on intheir life. Now it’s too impersonal, and things getmissed.

In terms of unemployment prisons could bebetter if they opened up and took more contractsright across the full prison estate, more like the privatesector. Campaigns to close down so called ‘Noddyshops’ miss the point. Yes, you can do the work blind-folded but it is a work routine and gives you moreresponsibility getting up and going there every day.For some people it stops them thinking about otherthings like harming themselves. A company came inhere and gave me a guaranteed interview — the firstI had in 20 years!

More needs to be done with transition to openconditions though to overcome the ‘culture shock’.You need to have faith and build up a relationship butthat doesn’t happen now you have to start over againwith people who don’t know you. After 10-15 years inclosed conditions you have to do things you never hadto do in 15 years like finding the dining hall — paniccould set in. It is good that Risley is now linking withThorn Cross because it helps with that transition fromhere to there with the same staff and governors.

I also think more needs to be done before releaseto prepare life sentence prisoners for modern life.When I was sentenced you didn’t have phones withcameras; or tills in supermarkets where you do ityourself. Everything is IT now to do with shopping.Even alcohol and drug awareness is different thesedays. A lot is said about money management butwhen you manage on prison wages it is not aboutunderstanding money management it is about thechoices people make about how they spend theirmoney.

Since the changes to housing in 2010 you can’thave permanent housing. Long term prisoners will notbe aware of this.

24 Issue 196

Interview: Life sentence prisonerJim Simmonds is serving a life sentence and is interviewed byMargaret Adams who was a prison manager.

1. Indeterminate sentences for public protection.2. Social work in prisons.



IDTS3 is the worst thing they ever introduced fordrug addicts. It gets abused and people just maintaina drug habit in prison. They could be on a £10 bagoutside but tell the doctor they are on a gram a day.They just get what they ask for and end up getting outwith a 50ml methadone habit. They even getzopiclone just to keep them quiet. There seems to bea different rule for IDTS. It should be more aboutrecovery than maintenance. There is no incentive inthe Lifer system where you are supposed to do whatthe system wants. You can do what the system wantsand don’t get the reward whereas with IDTS you cancarry on with a drug habit and still get on. A lifercould do 21 years on IDTS avoiding adjudicationsthroughout.

MA: Does imprisonmentmake it easier or harder foryou to make positive changesto your life?

JS: It makes it easier to lookat yourself. There are too manydistractions outside and you getcaught up in the utopia of being‘top dog’. We live in athrowaway society.

MA: The Governmentwants to achieve what it iscalling a ‘rehabilitationrevolution’. From your pointof view, what are the areaswhere more could be done tohelp prisoners go straight onrelease?

JS: Using prisoners asmentors and ex-users tochallenge drug addicts wouldhelp. Companies need to take achance on people. Probation need to do this more.They need to use sanctions at first as a support forinstance as part of a licence condition you should helpothers before getting to the next stage. This helps youto get self-respect and self-worth back. I also thinkthat there should be more real life information foracademics and professionals who set things out inpolicies but don’t really understand the reality ofpeople’s lives.

I came into prison age 24 and I am going out at50 years old with short periods of being out inbetween. I had a probation officer who was relaxedand wanted to be my friend not my probation officer.I needed a short rein — I needed to be managed. Iknew I could get away with things so it didn’t do meany good to have someone like that then. There needsto be a balance between what it was like then and

what it is like now. You can’t get appointments easilynow because caseloads are so high. They don’t reallyhave time for you and probation officers always looktired. This is no good for long term prisoners whoneed some sort of halfway house — not a hostel,which houses people from court on bail because thereis too much coming and going. They need akeyworker who can help with links to other serviceslike the local authority and Jobcentre Plus and MAPPA4

services. There needs to be an advocate role.MA: What kind of work or training do you

think could be introduced to prisons?JS: Work and training need to go hand in hand

like fork lift truck training and then using them inworkshops. Public prisons aretoo restrictive. Governors shouldbe given more leeway to usethings like the textile shop tomake a range of stuff and set upsocial enterprises to sell on visitsetc. Government purse stringsare the stumbling block. Anexample is the staff mess canonly now use the nationalcontract for supplies. Kitchenmanagers used to be able toinnovate and subsidise but theycan’t anymore.

MA: Would you welcomethe opportunity to ‘paysomething back’ to thecommunity for your crimes,either financially, throughsome kind of unpaid work, orby meeting your victim?

JS: I wouldn’t have aproblem saying sorry to my

victim but under the Victim Charter and the victim’simpact statement I have agreed not to contact themor even enter my old town, which means I can’t evengo to visit my parents grave. I agreed to this becausethey didn’t deserve what I did to them and theyshouldn’t have to worry about bumping into me in thestreet when I get out, so I accept that is aconsequence of what I did.

I would like to work with the handicapped orelderly but the voluntary and community sector can’ttake me on because of my offence. I would also like tospeak to students and professionals to help them geta taste of reality by giving the user perspective. If I wasyounger I would build a youth centre. I worry aboutyoung people I see coming in here. They needsomething to do but their way. They have a wholenew language and outlook. Kids can’t be individuals.

Issue 196 25

3. Integrated drug treatment services.4. Multi-agency public protection arrangements.

They need to usesanctions at first asa support for

instance as part of alicence conditionyou should helpothers before

getting to the nextstage. This helpsyou to get self-respect and self-worth back.



They have to be part of a ‘pack’ and they get caughtup in things and end up here.

MA: How has the prisoner experience shiftedin recent years?

JS: Prisons are warehouses now with a conveyorbelt system. They have introduced telephones and TVsbut before that you had to interact. Prisoners and staffdon’t know how to interact now. Prisoners used tohave radios so there was more exposure to culturebecause you would listen to different programmes onat different times of the day. I used to listen to Radio4. I even went to see Les Miserables once when I gotout because I had listened to it on the radio. I reallyenjoyed it. It’s not something Iwould have done before.

MA: How have prison-staff and staff-prisonerrelationships changed inrecent years? How do youthink they could beimproved?’

JS: You don’t get anycontinuity with staff on the wing— it is different staff all thetime. But staff also need to dropthe barriers a bit. They should beable to think for themselves. Itneeds to be built into theirtraining that they can interactwithout being unprofessional.They don’t seem to be willing toengage and build on theirinsight. They are afraid to takethat step because they are sosecurity conscious and are waryof breaking a confidence aboutthemselves.

MA: What are the aspects of being in prisonthat people outside are least aware of?

JS: They don’t know the backgroundcircumstances of why someone might be in prison,‘There but for the grace of God’ for some people. Justlook at the Cumbria killings where he was wrappedup in his feelings but before he snapped and did thateverybody liked him. If he had just killed himselfpeople would have said ‘what a shame we couldn’t doanything about it’. You don’t always have to breakbefore you can be mended! Besides punishmentpeople also need to be helped, more restorativeapproaches.

Prisons could interact more with the localpopulation to see the regimes are not just aboutplaystations and pool. They should understand thetrauma, the impact of selfharm and deaths, and dailyinteractions. Victims should be allowed to see whatthe prisoner has done to turn things around.

MA: An increasing number of prisons arepotentially to be managed by private companiesin the near future and there will be potentiallywider opportunities for the voluntary andcharitable sector. What are the benefits and risksof these changes for you?

JS: The benefit is that prisoners can earn moremoney however the cost is that you can be in a lotlonger because your paperwork doesn’t get done. Iam a commodity and to keep me the private prisonearns £80-£100 per week. As a lifer I provide themwith a guaranteed income. In my experience thepublic sector is good at paper trails and routine and

having my paperwork done isimportant to me so public isbetter than private. The privatesector offer window dressingthrough individual benefits toregimes.

It is good that the voluntaryand community sector aregetting involved particularly ifthey team up for aftercare andthroughcare planning. As I saidearlier halfway houses run byLangley Trust and Phoenix Houseresulted in fewer people comingback into prison. There is alsoscope to get the charity sectorinvolved in the prison maybeopening up a sort of GraceBrothers providing clothes fordischarges or making things tosell in charity shops outside. Atthis prison we have the cycleworkshop which is a charity.

The problem for the publicsector is that it is not allowed to do things differentlyand the public sector always has to deal with difficultcases so I’m not sure that they have the leeway tocompete on a level playing field with the privatesector.

MA: What do you think are the biggestproblems in the prison system?

JS: Underfunding, you can’t keep robbing Peterto pay Paul. There is no funding for a victim awarenesscourse, so if a judge or the Parole Board want thatcourse then progression doesn’t happen. If there is asmash-up, a cell is out of action until it is repairedwhich costs money. Constant watches cost money butyou can’t set that because it’s unpredictable.

MA: What are the things that get in the wayof prisons being more like you would want themto be?

JS: Red tape — forward thinking and progressivegovernors have ideas but these are stifled by protocol,

26 Issue 196

Prisons couldinteract more withthe local populationto see the regimesare not just aboutplaystations andpool. They shouldunderstand the

trauma, the impactof self-harm anddeaths, and dailyinteractions.



procedures and procurement. For example we hire acontractor for food. Six months ago there were fewerforeign national prisoners so more space was used forEuropean food with no flexibility meaning there wasless available to respond to the increase in foreignnational prisoners. In the past you could get E45 (skincream) from Healthcare now it’s an added expense tobe paid for.

More power should be given to local managers.probation and prisons should be the Parole Panel notthe Ministry of Justice because they don’t know theday to day happenings in your life.

MA: If you could do one thing to improve theeffectiveness of the prison service, what would itbe?

JS: Open it up to society more. If people couldsee where the money was going and how it was beingspent it would go back to rehabilitation and notwarehousing. I will be costing society for the

remainder of my life. Politicians get in the way withknee-jerk reactions to the press, making it difficult forsociety by inaccurate reporting. A ten year sentenceshould be broken down into 5 years punishment, 2years restorative work and 3 years licence period. Itwould provide clear expectations using a ‘carrot andstick’ approach. There should be clear targets beforeprisoners get out and this needs to be explained toprobation that handovers are too quick and notinclusive so mistakes happen. If you had a bad time ata particular prison, it doesn’t mean you are bad.Probation need to think more about the whole personand not just the process if people are going to stayout of prison. There is every walk of life in prison andthe skills should be used to better effect particularlywith younger people because it is frightening theextremes that they feel they need to go to find theirplace in society.

Issue 196 27



Brendan Hadley is a prisoner at Leyhill openprison serving a four year sentence for financialfraud. He has run his own business in the pastand is currently working in the laundry prior tohis imminent release.

ML: From your perspective, what are theeffects of the fact that we are locking upincreasing numbers of people in prison? Whatare the consequences for you of prisons beingfull?’

BH: People are being put in prison for whatappears to me to be increasingly trivial offences; otheravenues of punishment are not being exploredsufficiently. They are being locked up to remove themfrom the public gaze and you get the impression thatthe prison system is being used as a warehouse. Oncethey’re in prison no-one knows what to do with them,and then and as a consequence they’re just left to rot.Because the prison is full there is less to go round; lessresources and less people to manage them. It’scausing a degree of frustration, anger and stress.Communication too: People don’t seem to have thetime to talk to you, to explain why certain thingshappen..

ML: Politicians often use the term ‘BrokenSociety’ Do you think this describes the worldyou come from?

BH: I come from an ordered, structured, goal-orientated world. I’ve worked for myself for 25 yearsso I don’t personally relate to a broken society. I cansee that for others it describes their whole life. They’rein and out of prison and their families are used to itand it’s a way of life to them. It’s a difficult one toanswer unless you are part of it.

ML: Do you think prisons can help with socialproblems like unemployment, drug use andfamily breakdown?

BH: Given sufficient resources yes it can.Particularly if you can give people a work ethic,discipline and if you taught trades like plumbing,electrician, plastering, HGV licence, fork lift truck. Iknow they’re not educated jobs but we need themand they are always being advertised. There’s a stigmaabout being a criminal so you can teach people aboutbeing self employed.

For drug users I‘d let them go cold turkey. Sorry Ihave no sympathy. I know you have to treat themright and fair but I’m sorry I’d lock them up and they’dhave closed visits until they were clean. The physical

addiction passes in seven days so I’m told. With drugand alcohol abusers I’d be quite draconian. Drugs areto blame for many problems in prisons.

Family breakdown: What you see a lot in prison isfamilies breaking down right at the end of sentence,because you’ve been away and only seen the familyon visits a couple of times a month. They get used toyou not being around, then they realise you’re cominghome and they’ve not necessarily found someoneelse, but they can’t contemplate life together again.So many get ‘dear John’ letters. Prisons could helpwith a lot more family days, a lot more to helpmaintain a family.

ML: Does imprisonment make it easier orharder for you to make positive changes to yourlife?

BH: The only person who can make positivechanges in your life is yourself. If you’re frustrated,humiliated, angry, it becomes increasingly hard to seethe positive. I don’t know whether counselling helps,but you need a positive attitude: If I work hard I willget this, turn my life around. So I recommend a carrotand stick approach. A short sharp shock of lock up23/7 and then a chance to turn it around and get apositive return. A lot of the jobs in prison not properjobs but are there purely to keep people occupied.This breeds a sense of frustration. It is frustratingwhen people are not working hard but are still gettingpaid. It’s frustrating when you are trying to completean education course and there is limited access to acomputer, or you move prisons and your course workfollows six months later. These problems make itharder to make positive changes in your life andmaintain your resilience.

ML: The Government wants to achieve whatit is calling a ‘rehabilitation revolution’. Fromyour point of view, what are the areas wheremore could be done to help prisoners go straighton release?

BH: I absolutely agree with it. Prison should beabout stopping offending behaviour, looking at whatis causing it. Sexual, violent and arson offenders arewired in such a way that you can’t stop themoffending unless they want to. However, a lot ofburglars are not doing it because they want to hurtpeople; they’re doing it because they have a habit.These are crimes of opportunity to feed their habitand if you take the habit away the chances are they’renot going to do it again. Or it can be a lack of

28 Issue 196

Interview: Prisoner in open conditionsBrendan Hadley is a prisoner at Leyhill open prison. He is interviewed byMonica Lloyd

from NOMS headquarters.



education so you can’t get a job. Prison itself can bepart of the solution but it can’t do all of it. It canprovide education, it can enforce discipline, it can alsofurther punish people for bad behaviour, so therehabilitation revolution I agree with completely, butyou’ve got to look at why people are committingcrimes in the first place and what needs to be done tobreak that cycle. Some of the solutions are pragmatic.You give then the ability to earn money. You don’tgive them the job. You give them the skills and a workethic. You get them an interview or you help them togo self employed. You set up a bank account for themwith their earnings in it. You give them life skills andwork skills and some education. It requires a multi-pronged approach.

ML: What kind of work or training do youthink could be introduced toprisons?

BH: If you make peoplework in prison, pay themproperly you could make themmore responsible. If they want toeat a different diet they could payfor it, or pay for their TVs, theirTV licence, pay for their bits andpieces. You only need to spend abit in prison; if you’re paid theminimum wage the rest can gointo your savings so you have abank balance when you leave.Otherwise you’re released with ahalf a week’s dole and it takes sixweeks for your next dole chequeto come through. What are yougoing to do except go back towhat you know to raise cash?Whereas if you had £2k or £3kthat you’d earned and you’dinstilled a work ethic then youcan pay a deposit for a flat or buya car or at least put food on thetable for a couple of weeks. So the answer is prison canhelp with unemployment and self esteem, if it’sstructured properly. I know the public don’t want to seelags earning large sums of money but there are ways ofstopping people coming back and it costs a fortune tokeep people inside. If they had the minimum wagethere would be an incentive to work and you couldmake a contribution for your keep and there would bea balance for when you leave.

ML: Would you welcome the opportunity to‘pay something back’ to the community for yourcrimes, either financially, through some kind ofunpaid work, or by meeting your victim?

BH: Of course I would. Absolutely no problem atall. Others don’t agree with me but I would have chain

gangs. It should be a condition that you have to payback. Look at the state of the roads and public parks.If I could put one officer on site with 25 prisoners,with three people who know how to tarmac, I canredo the roads and repair the public parks. We couldpaint the schools in the summer when the kids aren’tthere, maintain the public baths. You’ve gotelectricians and well qualified people in here. Somewould welcome the opportunity to pay somethingback. It keeps their skills in if nothing else. So theanswer is yes, though financially isn’t necessarily thebest way as prison wages are so low, but if prisonerswere paid proper money for fixing the roads or otheramenities you are doing a proper job and have adegree of self esteem.

Meeting your victim is an emotive one. I’m notsure that all victims would wantto meet their assailants. Mostpersonal crimes are aboutcontrol, so I’m not sure howhelpful it would be for the victimto be put back in a positionwhen they are giving theperpetrator back some control, ifonly briefly, over their life. Theymight be remorseful but I don’tknow if it’s a good thing or a badthing.

ML: How has the prisonerexperience shifted in recentyears?

BH: I’ve only been in for acouple of years but others tellme that it was originally a levelplaying field: officers andprisoners with a cleardemarcation between the two.Life was easier then; no privatecash, everybody had to live offtheir earnings. It was moreabout punishment and was

more of a shock.ML: How have prison-staff and staff-prisoner

relationships changed in recent years? How doyou think they could be improved?’

BH: Prison staff were always Mr or ‘gov’, not firstnames. There was a clear demarcation. They will beyour friend but you step over the line and they arealways the prison officer. Because of the blurring ofthat line you can end up in trouble. People will alwaysform relationships but the demarcation should bemaintained and the erosion of it is causing a lot ofdiscipline problems. There are some members of staffwho can abuse their position, whether it’s becausethey are upholding rules or whether they’re just beingpetty. There should be a degree of discretion but

Issue 196 29

We could paint theschools in the

summer when thekids aren’t there,maintain the publicbaths. You’ve gotelectricians andwell qualifiedpeople in here.Some wouldwelcome the

opportunity to paysomething back.



where punishment is disproportionate it can lead toresentment. If everybody knew where they stood lifewould be so much easier.

ML: What are the aspects of being in prisonthat people outside are least aware of?

BH: I have to say it’s the loneliness, thefrustration, the humiliation, the lack of freedom. Thepublic do get the impression that we are all in aholiday camp, but prison is a place of punishment.People outside need to be more aware of how thesystem actually works. Like my mate serving a lifesentence. He has a tariff that’s like a fixed term but hecan serve any number of yearsbeyond that and when he goesout he’s on licence for the restof his life and can be recalled atany time. That doesn’t meananything to anybody, and thenewspapers don’t educatepeople about how the systemworks. Lifers here are incategory D because they’reassessed as low risk of re-offending or of hurting anyoneand are at the end of very longsentences. And they’ve had to do a number ofcourses to qualify for being here.

ML: An increasing number of prisons arepotentially to be managed by private companiesin the near future and there will be potentiallywider opportunities for the voluntary andcharitable sector. What are the benefits and risksof these changes for you?

BH: I don’t see anything wrong with the privateprison. As far as I’m concerned, having run my ownbusiness, they are a business and should be run asone. In my time in prison I’ve seen a lot of waste.

Private prisons might actually spend more moneywhere it’s meant to be spent, on rehabilitatingprisoners, or it could go in the coffers to save moneyfor the government. I’m not sure about what is best,but there are alternatives.

ML: What do you think are the biggestproblems in the prison system?

BH: Inertia. Unfairness and inertia, lack ofrehabilitation, lack of education. Someone has beendealing drugs to kids, he gets three or four monthsand comes here, he gets out and does it again andcomes back, then the cycle repeats. He might go

somewhere else next time, butwhat is he learning? That’s notpunishing someone for repeatoffending. Some people getdealt with far too leniently;some get dealt with for tooharshly.

ML: What are the thingsthat get in the way of prisonsbeing more like you wouldwant them to be?

BH: It’s a difficult question.If you pay me to do a job I’ll pay

for the privilege of a nice place to be and I’d pay backto society. Conversely if I abuse it you take it away.Just give me the basics and everything beyond that I’llearn. You’ve got to teach people rules andregulations, self esteem, give them a work ethic, call itwhat you want.

ML: If you could do one thing to improve theeffectiveness of the prison service, what would itbe?

BH: Break the circle and get rid of the lethargyand inertia. That’s a big thing.

30 Issue 196

You’ve got to teachpeople rules andregulations, selfesteem, give thema work ethic, call itwhat you want.



Janet Brookes is the mother of a serving prisoner.Her son is serving a six year prison sentence forsexual and internet offences, which is his firsttime in prison. Her mother had been a Magistratefor many years and was shocked at the sentence.Janet has been in professional jobs in education,both in senior management and then ininspection and advice in schools. None of this hadbrought her anywhere near the judicial system.She writes to her son and visits him as often aspossible with as many friends as are willing to gowith her. is also trying to help him continue hiseducation and sort out his finances, as his bankaccounts were closed within a few weeks ofsentencing. Her son has no partner or children.

CS: From your perspective, what are theeffects of the fact that we are locking upincreasing numbers of people in prison? What arethe consequences for you of prisons being full?’

JB: The main one is not being able to get oncourses; you are never quite sure whether that isbecause there are so many prisoners and not enoughcourses, for example at last my son has been on athinking skills course but he can’t get on the offence-specific course, which follows on for more than sixmonths. There is one sooner but it’s full. It does seemthat prisons are overloaded — prisoners are oftenlocked up when they shouldn’t be, and officers seem tohave too much to do. Sometimes there has been a lackof response to my son’s (perfectly reasonable) requests.

CS: Politicians often use the term ‘BrokenSociety’ Do you think this describes the world youor your relative come from?

JB: Not really. In the past I worked for a long timein education in an inner-city area, and we are veryprivileged in many ways in comparison. It’s not reallysociety but humanity that is broken here.

CS: Do you think prisons can help with socialproblems like unemployment, drug use and familybreakdown?

JB: My son has Asperger’s syndrome a personalproblem but likely to lead to employment andrelationship difficulties. Everything that happens inprison only seems to make things worse. I hadimagined that we send people to prison because societyneeds keeping safe from them, but that in terms of theprisoner we would try and send them out better thanwhen they came in, but it’s impossible for me to seehow the way that prisons are operating at the momentis doing that.

CS: Does imprisonment make it easier orharder for prisoners to make positive changes toyour life?

JB: Imprisonment makes it harder. If they’re inwork, it takes away their job. If they have families, itcauses immense stresses — I can’t imagine what it mustbe like for those with children who have their fatherstaken away from them. All our friends and family areworking hard to visit, to write and to keep in touch sothat there will be a network for my son when he comesout, as life will be harder than ever for him then. He isnot very far away fortunately — I dread him beingmoved away.

I knew nothing about prisons before and I reallyought to have done. Here I am, a left-wing member ofthe middle-classes and I knew nothing about it, and I’mappalled by what I’ve experienced. Prisons should beable to help with problems, but my experience suggeststhat it doesn’t. The courses my son has at last been onmay help make some change. After he was arrested,whilst on bail, he had a lot of therapy paid for by me,and a lot he is getting now is repeated. It feels too littletoo late. Perhaps it’s not too little, but perhaps it’s not atthe teachable moment. As an educator I couldn’tbelieve that this didn’t happen before he got intotrouble.

CS: The Government wants to achieve what itis calling a ‘rehabilitation revolution’. From yourpoint of view, what are the areas where morecould be done to help prisoners go straight onrelease?

JB: When my son went in, the first thing anybodyever said to me was, ‘we’ll look after him and we canwork with him’. I was so relieved and I thought it wasgood. But then nothing positive happened at all foralmost a year. All the right noises seemed to be beingmade, and I read all this positive stuff in The Guardian,but it’s not borne out in practice.

I’ve read about prisons which have amazingrehabilitation programmes and employmentopportunities, and that’s what I would do if I was aprison governor, keep them busy! My son was part-waythrough his degree before prison, and I understoodeducation was fundamental in prison, but there hasbeen zero. He hasn’t been able to get on an OpenUniversity degree.

I don’t really know what’s going to be available onrelease, but I have heard about the Quaker Circles ofSupport Programme, and I’m hoping something likethat will be available for my son. He’s very worried

Issue 196 31

Interview: Mother of a serving prisonerJanet Brookes is the mother of a serving prisoner. She is interviewed by Christopher Stacey, Head of Projects

and Services at UNLOCK, the National Association of Reformed Offenders.



about being recalled. I fear what it’s going to be likewhen he comes out, but there is a growing number ofsupport organisations; anything where all of theservices, churches etc work together and with thefamilies to help the person sounds a good idea —joined up thinking.

CS: What kind of work or training do youthink could be introduced to prisons?

JB: Absolutely anything, including the opportunityto use and develop the skills they have. I feel sure thatas a society we should regard it as a priority to provideappropriate work and training. If we don’t we aregiving ourselves a bigger problem than we started with.

CS: Would you welcome the opportunity foryour relative to ‘pay something back’ to thecommunity for your crimes,either financially, throughsome kind of unpaid work, orby meeting their victim?

JB: I have no problem withthat, and neither would my son.Even if he had a job on release, todo voluntary work as well wouldbe fine. He loves being part of ateam and contributing to society.He would willingly participate inthat. Any kind of communitypayback sounds like a really goodidea.

CS: How has theexperience of prisonersshifted in recent years?

JB: I’m not too sure, but forexample, prisoners havingtelevisions seems a good idea forwhiling away the hours and days, and at least it’s a wayof keeping them in touch with the outside world —they would be cut off otherwise.

CS: How have services for prisoners familieschanged in recent years? How do you think theycould be improved?

JB: Everything that I have had, and I have hadsome help, has been from the charities like PACT —they’re brilliant. But there isn’t anything like that at theprison where my son is, it’s a rural one so I’ve had tocome back to these other organisations. It seems thecharities are all focused on doing their little bit, helpingyou with one thing or another, lots of small charitiesbeavering away on their own, and the umbrellaorganisation Action for Prisoners Families seems like areally good idea.

The easiest thing the prisons could do is to givefamilies information — I don’t see why you have totease out information about everything, whether it isvisiting, sending in money or whatever. I got somethingfrom the local prison when my son first went in but it

was 50 pages long. PACT produced something whichwasn’t too bad but it actually didn’t reflect the reality ofthe prison. When he moved to the prison where he isnow there was nothing, so I had to start all over again.They said ‘you can always ask’, and when I did ask theywere usually courteous and usually gave an answer, butwhy you should have to winkle out all of thisinformation I just don’t know. They could do somethingthat covers the routine, this is what you can send in,this is what the visiting process is — it’s not rocketscience. In my son’s prison, there is a notice board thatyou stand facing when you are waiting to be let outafter the visit, which includes the mission statement ofthe prison, which bears no relation to what I see goingon and gives the name of a person you can contact. I

have wanted to contact them andtried to ring — I spent half anhour trying to trace them before Idiscovered this person was nolonger employed, and there isnobody in that post anymore.Nobody had a clue. Althoughthat person had already left —that phone number and name isstill there now. So not only canyou not get information, butthere is out of date informationbeing provided.

CS: Have you come acrossthe Offenders FamiliesHelpline, which is funded byNOMS?

JB: Yes, I have, because Ihave been talking to them aboutsome of the difficulties that I’ve

had. But what it doesn’t do is tell you about theindividual prison — you have to find it all out yourself.

CS: What are the aspects of being the relativeof a prisoner that people outside are least awareof?

JB: I think the sense of stigma as a family member,and having had things in the press, some of it invented,and you’ve got no right of reply, and you’re under allthe weight of this stuff being put around — that’sappalling. My friends know because they went throughit with me but in general people don’t know howappalling that is. After some months I did learn to laughagain and enjoy myself, but for example a neighbourwho’d heard me outside enjoying the evening withfriends said how glad she was that I’d moved on but aswe talked she suddenly said ‘it’s still a live issue for youisn’t it’, and I said ‘yes, every day’. I’m dealing with stuffall the time, whether it is dealing with his bank account,or his OASys report, you can’t put it down. The effectson people with children, or the breadwinner going intoprison, must be awful.

32 Issue 196

I feel sure that as asociety we shouldregard it as a

priority to provideappropriate workand training. If wedon’t we are givingourselves a biggerproblem than westarted with.



CS: An increasing number of prisons arepotentially to be managed by private companies inthe near future and there will be potentially wideropportunities for the voluntary and charitablesector. What are the benefits and risks of thesechanges for you?

JB: I don’t know — I heard some of theprogrammes may be run in different places and I wasafraid, in the short term, that it might mean my sonwould be moved further away, but I’d worry about thatwith any organisation. I suppose my main concern wouldbe that the people who run them actually know whatthey’re trying to do, and that as a society we know whatwe’re trying to do, that the principles and outcomeswe’re after are laid down, so that whoever is runningthem might actually achieve the right ends. I’m thinkingabout schools going into privatehands; I’m not sure whether wehave a corporate view of whatwe’re trying to do in education,with it all becoming fragmented.It could be the same in prisons.

CS: What do you think arethe biggest problems in theprison system?

JB: The biggest problem iswe don’t know what we’re tryingto do, and so we’re not doing it.The picture is very confused. As anoutsider, this is the biggestproblem — we need to decidewhat prison is for and what thebest way is to achieve the ends,and then do it. Another problem isthat, though I can understand that there are a lot ofprisoners who are very difficult, where you have aCategory C prison and you have people who are notdifficult, who want to sort themselves out and make acontribution to society, I think they could be treated moreconstructively.

CS: What are the things that get in the way ofprisons being more like you would want them tobe?

JB: Imagination, and perhaps also a lack of funds.There are entrenched attitudes as well in some of thestaff. One of my friends, a very upright man, who hasfound this whole business with my son very difficult,nevertheless asked to visit, which was quite a big deal.He was appalled that one of the officers in charge of thevisiting room was sitting there with his feet on the desk.The whole idea that the prison was not run professionallywith people meeting professional standards was a hugeshock to him.

CS: If you could do one thing to improve theeffectiveness of the prison service, what would itbe?

JB: Well I think we are backto what I mentioned before —decide what we are doing, decidewhat the right course of action is,recruit the right sort of attitudes,train the people in the skills to doit — it’s straight out of amanagement textbook but that iswhat I believe. The officers couldbe much more active, they seemso passive at the moment. Theylock them up, and then they don’tdo anything.

Fundamentally, I believe mostpeople in prison are there becausesociety has screwed them up, orlet them down, or failed them insome way. I don’t actually believe

that most people are there because they are wicked —perhaps when I think of some high-intelligence person infinance who has defrauded millions then I think maybethat is wicked, and they should just be punished (but Istill think about the effect on the families), but most ofthem have so many other social issues. If we spent moretime working out what has gone wrong we could maybeunravel it more effectively.

Issue 196 33

. . . most of themhave so many othersocial issues. If wespent more timeworking out whathas gone wrong we

could maybeunravel it moreeffectively.



George Pearce is the father of a serving prisoner.His son is serving a 30 year prison sentence formurder. He was convicted under the jointenterprise law. George himself served time inprison in late 1960’s. He has been married forover 30 years and has a number of children andgrandchildren. Having served in the ArmedForces and working as a bus driver, he is nowretired. He visits his son, with his son’s youngdaughter, at least once a month, despite thedistance.

CS: From your perspective, what are theeffects of the fact that we are locking upincreasing numbers of people in prison? Whatare the consequences for you of prisons beingfull?’

GP:Well, at the moment he’s not going to move.But, it is a big problem. Through his conviction I lostmy job because of people talking about it. It still goeson now — when I go out, people talk. I know they’resaying it, but they don’t say it to me. They keeplocking people up, but I’m beginning to wonderwhether it’s to appease the victims of the crime or forthe media, because they spend money on puttingpeople in prison, which puts a burden on thetaxpayer, and it’s a knock-on effect on society and thefamily. It’s an extra expense I could have donewithout, that my family could have done without. Mygranddaughter was a toddler when my son first gotlocked up, and now she’s nearly a teenager. We’ll begoing to see him in a couple of week’s time and shelooks forward to seeing him, but we don’t like all thetravelling. We leave at 7.30 in a morning and won’tget back until 10 at night. If the system weren’t sofull, then they could move people about more freely.

CS: Politicians often use the term ‘BrokenSociety’ Do you think this describes the worldyou or your relative come from?

GP: He didn’t come from a broken home. He wasjust in the wrong place at the wrong time. He was ahead chef, living with his partner, had a baby, andeverything was going fine. He lost his job because herefused to work Christmas Day, so was out of work.He got into drugs, which is pretty much commonpractice nowadays. He ended up owing money, andinstead of coming to me, he got into some trouble.

CS: Do you think prisons can help with socialproblems like unemployment, drug use andfamily breakdown?

GP: The only social problem my son had was hewas using drugs a lot. Obviously, going into prison hascleaned him. He now knows that that was wrong. Hehas managed to get help in prison. He’s learnt tochannel his energies into exercise, and he’s notinterested in drugs anymore. That’s one thing to havecome out of it. It got him off drugs and away from thatpart of society.

CS: Does imprisonment make it easier orharder for prisoners to make positive changes toyour life?

GP: No, not really. I don’t really know what hewould be doing now. As they say, things happen. Hehas a long time before he comes out. He doesn’t havea guaranteed release date anyway. He may not be outuntil he’s 60. He’s resigned to the fact he’ll never getout, as he won’t admit guilt. Prison sentences for thatlong a time cannot do anything. Long-term prisonersneed to be with one another, because it’s unfair forthem to mix. I’ve got to be honest — they don’t careabout prison officers. I know it’s wicked, but they don’tgive a monkeys. Some become violent towards staff. Ifyou’re in for a few years, you lose a remission, but ifyou’re doing 20 years, you can’t lose remission. Really,it’s a waste of time putting them in for that length oftime, and then trying to rehabilitate somebody.

CS: The Government wants to achieve what itis calling a ‘rehabilitation revolution’. From yourpoint of view, what are the areas where morecould be done to help prisoners go straight onrelease?

GP: For short term prisoners, you can teach them atrade — plumbing, carpentry, and try and find them ajob whilst they are inside. When I worked for a buscompany, there were loads of other areas at a meetingand a representative of a different area said that theyemployed four prisoners from Ford prison. The wagesthey earned were paid into their bank, but they wereonly allowed so much in the prison. If you fast-forward,prisons are expensive, and if that system still works atFord, if a prisoner earns £250 a week, £50 could gointo their prison account, £50 could go into a savingsaccount for release and £150 could go back into thecommunity — that way, they’re helping the communityand helping themselves. I cannot see, if there wereenough people to do it, how that wouldn’t work. Then,it wouldn’t cost as much to run prisons, and theywouldn’t be in the prison all week, so it drops thebudgets down.

34 Issue 196

Interview: Father of a serving prisonerGeorge Pearce is the father of a serving prisoner. He is interviewed by Christopher Stacey,Head of Projects and Services at UNLOCK, the National Association of Reformed Offenders.



CS: What kind of work or training do youthink could be introduced to prisons?

GP: My son works for the prison kitchens. Hestarted at the bottom, but as he knows what he’sdoing, he was telling the head chef how to do thejob, so they gave him a trial doing the staff dinners.When he first started, they were 4-5 a day — now,they’re doing 18 a day — they love him. Thecompany that run it, Aramark, because they doseparate prisons, have asked him to sit the NVQAssessors Course, they would pay for it, so that hecould become an Assessor. He’s going to try and seeif he can do it. If he only had a few years to do, hecould do that and would be able to walk out with anNVQ, and go get a job in a technical college. He couldalso help the prison in doing what they do.

CS: Would you welcome the opportunity foryour relative to ‘pay something back’ to thecommunity for your crimes, either financially,through some kind of unpaid work, or bymeeting their victim?

GP: Yes. It gives them a target, and he couldthink that he has actuallyachieved something, or worktowards something. At themoment, not a lot of them givea monkeys. There are prisonerswho don’t want to helpthemselves, and they’re just notinterested, but at the other endof the spectrum there are thepeople who want to changeand know they could dosomething and put back into society. At the end ofthe day, society has locked them up so they could paya little bit of a debt back to society. I don’t believethat the victim or the victim’s family should be able tosee the person who committed the offence. In mysituation, if it was reversed, I wouldn’t want to seethe person as I’d just want revenge. I think a lot ofpeople would do the same. I wouldn’t want justice I’dwant revenge. There a lot of people around whowant the same.

CS: How has the experience of prisonersshifted in recent years?

GP: It’s changed thousands of percent since 40-odd years ago. Wormwood Scrubs prison — you usedto have a wing full of lifers, banged up 23 hours aday. The prison officers were frightened of them —they were doing 40 years, so couldn’t hurt them. It’sall changed. I’ve noticed it myself. My son has a liferofficer and she said he was a model prisoner, anddidn’t even think he needed to be in prison.

CS: ‘How have services for prisoners familieschanged in recent years? How do you think theycould be improved?’

GP: The visiting has changed a lot — it’s gotworse. Now, when my son was in a different prison,we left home, pulled up, booked in, and the snifferdog came around. I’ve seen the dogs in prisons andI’ve seen what they do — they indicate by circlingthen sitting and looking up at you. They said ‘you’vebeen indicated, you’re not having a visit’ — I said ‘doyou know how far I’ve just come?’ and he said ‘Idon’t care, can’t give a closed visit, there aren’t nofacilities. You ain’t seeing your son’. My first thoughtwas ‘should I hit him now, or later’ and I said ‘thisain’t over’ and walked off. Now, I contacted theGovernor — didn’t even get a reply. I contacted myMP, and got a reply, and went to his surgery. Thereason my visit had got cancelled was because I’dhad the nerve to complain before — my sonconfirmed this, because I’d wrote to the Governorprior about a previous visit, where it took us 45minutes to get in to see our son then we only got 20minutes. My son had told me to leave it, as he saidthey would take it out on him. From prison to prison,the way they treat you on a visit varies hugely. The

way they treat people is bad —they treat me as a criminal, andI’m not.

CS: What are the aspectsof being the relative of aprisoner that people outsideare least aware of?

GP: Nobody can reallyknow how people feel. Only afew people really know aboutwhat happened to my son. Our

family back us 100 per cent, but when I go into mylocal town, people are always talking. I know whatthey’re doing — they’re talking about my son. Loadsof people do it. It has eased off a lot. It got a lot ofpress coverage at the time. It was the heaviestsentence that anybody had ever got in our localtown. Because of the nature of the crime, it wassplattered all over the papers. The company I wasworking for at the time were very good. Things haveeased since then as it was several years ago. My otherson went out one night and got his head kicked inbecause of his brother. Mud sticks unfortunately. Ikeep thinking of going to the papers to correct thingsbut I don’t want to drag it all up again — I’ll try anddo something through the proper channels. I havelost my son, but I can’t grieve, because he hasn’tactually died.

CS: An increasing number of prisons arepotentially to be managed by private companiesin the near future and there will be potentiallywider opportunities for the voluntary andcharitable sector. What are the benefits and risksof these changes for you?

Issue 196 35

The visiting haschanged a lot —it’s got worse.



GP: Private prisons should be used more. Theysay there isn’t any difference between the two butthere is. With private prisons, they’re allowed to weartheir own clothes, and the prison officers are polite. Iknow at some public prisons they are not polite at allto prisoners. What I would love to see is if they run allprisons the same, G4S could run them all for me, butyou’d want somebody to sit down to say how theyneeded to run, across the board they should all berun the same. In the prisonwhere my son is now, he can’thave anything brought in, buthe can buy them from M&SDirect or Argos, and they paythrough the nose. In a previousprison, we could get him acouple of t-shirts and so swaps.In a third prison he was at youcouldn’t do that but you couldtake a CD player. All visitorregimes are different — now, ifwe go to visit him, we have toemail him and he has to book itin the prison, all because youdon’t need a VO. In Elmley, heused to send out VO’s and we’dfill them in. They could, if theygot the right people together,put together a set of rules forprisons, it’s feasible that theycould all be run the same.

It’s good that charities getinvolved too. In some prisons,the visitor centres are run bycharities or volunteers, and thatwould work in 90 per cent ofprisons if you had somebody torun the canteen where any money they make go backinto the prisons, whereas now private companies likeAramark get it all. Charity organisations should getinvolved a lot more with the visitor’s side and helpingprisoners.

CS: What do you think are the biggestproblems in the prison system?

GP: Overcrowding and foreign nationalprisoners. There are tensions between different

national and religious groups and this also causesproblems running the prisons. As for overcrowding,my son is entitled to a cell on his own, and luckily hehas one at the moment, but sometimes there are twoor three to a cell. If you’ve got two Protestants, aCatholic and a Muslim you’re going to have aproblem. I think it’s purely because of the population.

CS: What are the things that get in the wayof prisons being more like you would want them

to be?GP: The sheer weight in

terms of numbers and the crimesthey are getting put in for. It’sabout time the police, CPS andothers sat down and understandthat we can’t keep puttingpeople in unless we either buildmore prisons and get some ofthose in at the moment out. Ithink it’s the biggest drain onbudget — it’s so expensive tokeep somebody in prison — andthe people they’re keeping aren’tputting anything back in.

CS: If you could do onething to improve theeffectiveness of the prisonservice, what would it be?

GP: Get more work inprisons, and get everybodysinging from the same hymnsheet. If all prisons were run thesame, it would allow theprisoner to know what’shappening, it would allow theprisoners family to know what ishappening. When they keep

moving people about, people haven’t got a cluewhat’s going on. It isn’t fair on the family. Becausethey’re all different in their visiting regimes, it makesit so confusing for families. They even constantlymove the goalposts within the prison, never mindbetween different prisons.

36 Issue 196

As for overcrowding,my son is entitled toa cell on his own,and luckily he hasone at the moment,but sometimes thereare two or three to acell. If you’ve gottwo Protestants, aCatholic and a

Muslim you’re goingto have a problem. Ithink it’s purelybecause of thepopulation.



Kelly Ewers was recruited into the position ofEuropean Social Fund (ESF) project manager atcrime reduction charity, Nacro, in March 2010. Priorto that she had worked for Welfare to WorkOrganisation and a charity called Women in Prison.In the latter position, she began as a volunteerbefore moving up to a front-line worker role andthen became a specialist projects manager.

Her current role finds her overseeing ESF fundedprojects with particular reference to young offenders.She manages a team of resettlement brokers workingin Young Offenders Institutions across the South region.She also has an employer engagement remit allied withcollaborating on a pilot project commissioned by theLondon Mayor’s Office. This involves encouragingemployers to provide paid employment and workplacement opportunities for Nacro’s clients.

MF: From your perspective, what are theeffects of the fact that we are locking upincreasing numbers of people in prison? What arethe consequences for you of prisons being full?

KE: My experience of prisons, over the last fewyears, echoes a lot of what was said in the Green Paper.For me, the biggest thing is that the current systemclearly does not work. Re-offending rates have beenstuck between 49 per cent and 60 per cent over the lastdecade. That is a clear indication that the system is notproviding rehabilitation and is not giving people theopportunity to move out of the cycle of crime. So, it isvery apparent it is a flawed system. Increasing numbersof people in prison will inevitably mean greater levels ofsocial exclusion and we’re creating an on-going cyclethat left without action we’re not going to be able tobreak.

We need to move away from this debate aroundwhether or not ‘prison works’. Instead, the Green Paperis a really good opportunity for the Government to lookat how we can turn this around and make the requiredchanges.

At the moment we don’t have a rehabilitationstrategy that includes a really co-ordinated approach toresettlement. There are pockets of things that work reallywell. So, in some prisons, you’ll have a really goodhousing department that is very effective at providinghousing on release. In others, you may not. Or you might

have an effective housing department, but you might nothave an effective Job Centre Plus. So, someone might beput in housing, but there’s no support to get them on theright benefits and then that has a knock-on effect as theycan then lose their housing through rent arrears as thecorrect housing benefit has not been arranged. What Iwould really like to see, to make resettlement moreeffective, is a rehabilitation strategy that joins up all ofthose services and is much more holistic. A strategy thatlooks at prisoners as individuals and looks at the journeythat they need to go through to get the rightresettlement for their needs as opposed to fire-fightingcertain issues.

MF: Politicians often use the term ‘BrokenSociety’. Do you think this describes the worldthat the prisoners you work with come from?

KE: The fact that really hit me when I looked atthis question was this whole thing about ‘differentworld’. For me, prisoners don’t live in a different world.To describe where they come from as a different world,I have a real issue with that. I think sometimes peopleuse that as an escape from really looking at the issuesaffecting those people. It’s almost like ‘Othering’, it’snot our problem so let’s not worry about it. That’s quitesad because we’re in a society and we have aresponsibility to those people. The big difference is thatit’s not that these people live in a different world, butthey don’t necessarily have access to the same choicesas the rest of us. I just pulled up a few statistics1 to showthat some of the things that don’t change and havenever changed since I’ve worked in prisons: 67 per centof male prisoners were unemployed before they wentto prison; 49 per cent were excluded from schools; 72per cent suffer two or more mental disorders. 66 percent had drug use in the previous year before custody.;and 52 per cent had no qualifications. That for me justdemonstrates the sheer level of social exclusion thesepeople experience. The main thing to remember is thatprison doesn’t make those problems go away. Whatinevitably happens is that prison exacerbates them andfurther compounds the social exclusion.

At the moment, what prison doesn’t do is look atwhether this person (for example) has got an issue withunemployment. If so what are we going to do? Are wegoing to upskill them? Are we going to build their

Issue 196 37

Interview: Worker for a largecharitable organisation

Kelly Ewers is European Social Fund Project Manager at Nacro. She is interviewed byMichael Fiddler lecturer in Criminology at the University of Greenwich.

1. Prison Reform Trust (2010). Bromley Briefings: Prison factfile. Available at:http://www.prisonreformtrust.org.uk/uploads/documents/FactFileJuly2010.pdf(accessed 19th April 2011).



confidence? Are we going to give them a vocation?They don’t do that. Instead we’ve got this kind of reallyarchaic resolve just to lock a door and hope that gets ridof the problem. My experience is that it doesn’t. It justmakes it worse.

MF: Do you think prisons can help with socialproblems like unemployment, drug use and familybreakdown?

KE: Certainly all the experience I’ve had and all theresearch that’s looked at the population of prisonsshows that these problems are significantly over-represented across the estates. That’s whether you gointo the young people’s estate, the male estate or thefemale estate. There are alwaysmore people with those issuesthan there are not. So, clearly, itcan be used as a means tosupport these problems. I thinkthe problem is, at the moment,it’s not. It’s just used aspunishment. The whole point ofprisons in this country was thatthey were supposed to berehabilitative and if they’re not,we have to question why they’rethere. If we must lock people up,if that’s what we decide as asociety that’s what we need to doto, then we need to use it as anopportunity to address thoseproblems. So, put in the rightsupport package so they don’tcome back.

In addition, we also have toconsider the impacts for futuregenerations. It is estimated160,000 children are affected bya parent going to prison everyyear.1 Only 5 per cent of children whose mother goes tocustody stays in their family home, and for 85 per centof mothers custody was the first time they have everbeen separated from their children from any significantamount of time. Yet we take no responsibility as asociety to protect these children and more often thannot they often receive little or no special support. It’sestimated that out of 205 Local Authorities, 188 madeno direct reference to children of offenders in theirLocal Children plan despite government directives tosay they should. Yet we know that offenders whoreceive visits are 39 per cent less likely to re-offend, withan estimated saving of £15,071.00 per year for eachoffender2. Yet services to link prisoners with their

families and children are inconsistent and patchy. This isa prime example of how we are recreating cycles ofsocial exclusion, instead of putting the rightinterventions in place to protect vulnerable groups ofour society and provide an opportunity for offenders totackle the root causes of their offending behaviour.

MF: Does imprisonment make it easier orharder for prisoners to make positive changes totheir lives?

KE: At the moment, all we can say is that it doesn’twork. The Green Paper suggests that re-offending is at50 per cent, but, depending on where you look, thenumber can be much higher. In the young people’s

estate, for example, it’s 86 percent. That’s a lot. How do peoplere-offend so quickly within oneyear of leaving custody?

I’m just going to use theproject that I manage, called InTouch, as an example, and it’saimed at 15 to 19 year oldoffenders. When we designed it, itlooked at addressing some ofthese issues. We looked atresearch that highlighted that lowconfidence, self-esteem, familystructures and negativeeducational experiences werereally significant barriers in youngpeople being able to accessemployment and education. Nowthat obviously has a massiveimpact on their lives. It limits thefinancial resources they haveaccess to. It limits their opportunityfor social mobility. So, because ofthat, the project that we put inplace looks to try and stabilise all

of those factors and provide resettlement support thatlinks them to sustainable employment and education,while almost establishing a wall of support around theirvulnerability. For me, that’s a much more effective way oftackling the root cause of crime because we’re looking atthe social problems that lead to that person committingcrime, rather than just saying ‘you’ve done somethingbad, so let’s just lock you up.’

Of course, it’s a hard sell. It’s not easy. It’s not likewe walk into the prisons and they’re all biting our armsoff for the service. It’s difficult and there’s not a lot oftrust in statutory and voluntary sector services. A lot ofpeople feel like they’ve heard it all before. In particular,with the young boys that we work for, it’s difficult

38 Issue 196

If we must lockpeople up, if that’swhat we decide asa society that’s whatwe need to do to,then I think we

need to use it as anopportunity toaddress those

problems. So, put inthe right supportpackage so theydon’t come back.

1. See Glover, J. (2009) Every Night You Cry: The Realities of Having a Parent in Prison. Ilford: Barnado’s.2. de las Casas, L., Fradd, A., Heady, L., and Paterson, E.. Measuring Together: Improving Prisoners’ Family Ties; Piloting a Shared

Measurement Approach. London: New Philanthropy Capital.



because we have to invest a lot of time building therelationship, developing trust with them, ensuring thatthey understand that there is some consistency on ourprojects. We are dependable. We’re not just going tobe in one day and gone the next. They need to knowthat they can rely on us. It takes time to facilitate thatrelationship and I guess that you can see it through thework that we do. It takes time to actually get to a pointwhere we know what their support needs are. I thinkthe biggest thing to achieve is demonstratingconsistency and being able to prove that you aretrustworthy as a service.

MF: The Government wants to achieve whatit is calling a ‘rehabilitation revolution’. From yourpoint of view, what are theareas where more could bedone to help prisoners gostraight on release?

KE: The first thing we needto remember is that if we want tosupport prisoners to make apositive change beyond thepunitive aspect of just lockingthem up. We have to invest inthem as members of our societyand provide effectiveresettlement programmes thatprovide them the opportunity tocontribute to society in ameaningful way. Specifically, thethings that I would really like tosee are a reduction in short,ineffective sentences. Secondly,enhanced resettlement supportfor young offenders and earlyintervention projects. So gettingthem before they go into prison.That’s crucial in young offenders. Also, gender specificservices across the estates that accommodate thedifferent resettlement needs of male and femalemembers. Female prisoners face extrememarginalisation by being part of a prison system thatwas designed by and for men. We need to ensure thatresettlement programmes are tailored toward theirgendered needs. I would also like to see more servicesthat aim to link offenders with their families andchildren, fostering more stable family relationships.

There should be more funding for through thegate resettlement services so that services that go intoprisons really support offenders in custody and thenbring them through the gate and support them afterthat. We can track where they’re going and providesupport when they wobble a little bit.

Finally, a comprehensive rehabilitation strategy thataddresses all of this and offers the chance for joined upcommunities that offer services across boroughs, across

geographic splits, but also across service users’ needs sothat they don’t have go to one place for benefits,another place for housing, another for educationsupport etc. and relive their story all the time.Somewhere where we can join all that up.

I know this isn’t necessarily about prisons, but Ithink it comes under ‘rehabilitation revolution’, but areform of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act is reallyrequired, it has not been revised since 1974. It’scompletely out of date. It makes it very difficult foroffenders to move on and get on with their lives. Theremust be a better way to manage risk than simplysaying, you know, you have to disclose for 7 or 10years. What aids that disclosure? What are people

managing risk against? A lot ofthe time it’s just used as a way todiscriminate against people.

MF: What kind of work ortraining do you think could beintroduced to prisons?

KE: Resettlement supportfocussed on sustainable financialindependence. What I mean bythat is actually looking at thecognitive process of what it meansto earn money. So, typically with alot of offenders you get theresponse to ‘why don’t you do thisjob?’ ‘well, I can go out and make£2000 a day selling drugs, forexample. Why do I need to do thisjob for £150 a week?’ It’s actuallythat process of asking ‘what’s thelongevity of that career? Howmany old drug dealers do yousee? Not many. How many yearsare you going to spend in prison?

How many hours do you need to work for that money?’Working out their per hour rate, a lot of them end upreally shocked at the fact that they earn less than theminimum wage the vast majority of time. It’s goingthrough that process. It’s almost like a cognitive changeand acknowledging that you might get these weekendswhere you make loads of money, but in between there’sa lot of scratching about and not really having much in-between. So that I think is really important.

Mentoring is a really effective means of providingsupport. We use mentoring here and it is volunteermentoring. So the mentors don’t get paid. That says alot to the people that they’re mentoring. Those peoplethink ‘why do you want to help me? You’re not gettingpaid for it. I don’t really understand’. It helps todemonstrate the importance of taking responsibility foryour society and wanting to support other people. It’ssomebody that they can depend on, build a personalrelationship with and can provide emotional support.

Issue 196 39

Female prisonersface extreme

marginalisation bybeing part of a

prison system thatwas designed byand for men. Weneed to ensure that

resettlementprogrammes are

tailored toward theirgendered needs.



Finally, more vocational training that really linkspeople in prison to the labour market, financial stabilityand independence is often the cornerstone tomitigating against the risks of re-offending.

MF: Would you welcome the opportunity forprisoners to ‘pay something back’ to thecommunity for your crimes, either financially,through some kind of unpaid work, or by meetingtheir victim?

KE: For me, I would rather see a focus on providingoffenders with the opportunity to tackle the cause oftheir offending. Stopping or reducing reoffendingwould have a greater positive impact on communitiesand victims. You know, for a victim, meeting the personthat attacked them isn’tnecessarily going to bring a senseof closure, but maybe they willfeel reassured if they know thatthat attack is not going tohappen again or it’s far less likelythat it’s going to happen again.Reducing crime is a much bettersolution than simply saying thatwe need a load of orange boilersuits out doing some gardening. Idon’t really know what thatwould achieve. I am a fan ofrestorative justice, and I thinkthat can work, but like I said, Iwould rather have an emphasison resettlement support thatstops the reoffending.

MF: How has the prisonerexperience shifted in recentyears?

KE: It’s quite sad actuallybecause I don’t think it’s changedthat much. I still think prisonremains a hugely, hugelyineffective means ofrehabilitation. We’ve got to get away from saying ‘thistype of prison doesn’t work, so let’s try a different typeof prison’ because clearly prison in itself is not working.I think the saddest thing for me is that even after all themassive reports that have come out — you know, thisGreen Paper is obviously very recent, but before thatwe had reports on sentencing, we had the CorstonReport3, we’ve had the Bradley Report4 on mentalhealth — what I still see when I walk around prisons isextreme desperation, extreme social exclusion and,without wanting to sound over-dramatic, people thatare really institutionalised by offending and by our

prison system. I find that really sad. So I hope that thisGreen Paper is an opportunity for the Government tooverhaul this system, really be brave in the choices thatthey make and to test out a new rehabilitation strategythat really does look at how we’re going to supportthese people to stop crime and look at the root causesof crime instead of repeating the same old mistakes.

MF: How have prison-staff and staff-prisonerrelationships changed in recent years? How doyou think they could be improved?

KE: That’s tough because I think historically theprison system has got a real legacy of recruiting fromcertain places — ex-police, ex-army — so it definitelyhad a regimented feel. Which is what some people

would argue is what it needs.What that did cause for a longtime was a massive dividebetween ‘them and us’ for theprisoners and the prison wardens.The Prison Service tried to do lotsof things to change that. Sothey’ve tried to improve theirdiversity strategy. They tried torecruit from more BMEcommunities. They’ve tried toincrease the number of gay andlesbian prison staff. They’ve triedto look at the age ranges and tryto bring in younger people, but Ido still feel that unless you’re in aLondon prison then the staff willnot represent the clients in there.In Young Offenders, for example,black young men are hugely over-represented, you can see it as youwalk around. Yet, as soon as youcome out of London, you canreally see a divide just in terms ofcultures, where people comefrom. I think there are some

really, really positive prison staff that are trying theirbest to come in and offer effective resettlementprogrammes. Unfortunately, there is also this legacy ofold-school workers that are trapped in this sort ofpunitive approach. So, for every really positive exampleof someone trying to support offenders, you’ve got aline of maybe 10 who are doing the opposite. I stilldon’t think, prisoner and prison warden relationshipshave improved drastically, but I do think the PrisonService has at least attempted to increase diversity. Themain thing for me is, I guess, lack of diversity when youcome out of London prisons.

40 Issue 196

I think there aresome really, reallypositive prison staffthat are trying theirbest to come in andoffer effectiveresettlementprogrammes.

Unfortunately, thereis also this legacy ofold-school workersthat are trapped inthis sort of punitive

approach.

3. Corston, J. (2007) A Review of Women with Particular Vulnerabilities in the Criminal Justice System. London: Home Office.4. Bradley, A. (2007) A Review of People with Mental Health Problems or Learning Disabilities in the Criminal Justice System. London:

Department of Health.



MF: How has the experience of working inprison changed in recent years (37.51)?

KE: The big thing for me is that prisons havebecome a lot more risk averse, particularly around bigpublicity that’s come out. So, in Holloway there wasthat Halloween party that hit all the press. There’s beenlots of media attention around arts-based projects. So,because of that, two things have happened. One,security procedures to get in prisons are a lot harderwhich limits the amount of ex-offenders that can workin custody. That’s really a shame because a lot of thestaff that I’ve got are ex-offenders and do an absolutelyamazing job and are living proof to our client groupthat change is possible. I think the other thing is that it’saffected the types of projects that are allowed to gointo prisons. Art-based projects, for example. Nowthat’s a real shame because I’veseen some fantastic art-basedprojects — be it paint-by-numbers or drama — that really,really help to tackle some ofthese deep-rooted issues. Therewas an arts project that helpedperpetrators of domestic violenceand it explored angermanagement and how you dealwith that. Now that is clearly aneffective means of rehabilitationin getting people to be able tocope with their feelings, butbecause there is media pressurearound ‘offenders do art’, they’vestopped the courses. So, I think ithas a negative impact on whatwe’re doing and it’s the samewith the Holloway example andthe Halloween party. That sort ofnegative press attention makes prison governors reallyrisk averse. Then the final issue with that is that theybecome so risk averse that they don’t want to letpeople out on release on temporary licence. Now, whenyou’re looking at resettlement, release on temporarylicence is fantastic. For example, the women fromAskham Grange working in a local hotel. You can getan offender out for the day, get them to go to ahousing appointment, get them to go to the job centreor maybe go on an interview. That’s a really great wayof trying to slowly introduce them back into society,but, because there was so much negative press, that’skind of stopped and now it’s very, very difficult to get arelease on temporary licence.

MF: What are the aspects of working in prisonthat people outside are least aware of?

KE: It is the vulnerability of offenders. Everybodysort of views offenders as these big monsters. They’rethe Fred Wests of the world and that’s what people see

as an offender. I’m not saying that there aren’t violent,psychologically dysfunctional people. Of course thereare. There are people like that. So while I understandthere is a place for prisons and we do need to keeppeople safe, I think what people don’t see is theamount of people that go into prison for non-violentcrimes and don’t have viable alternatives. So, I think thebig thing for me is vulnerability of offenders and howquickly people can be institutionalised by crime. Notinstitutionalised by prison, but by crime. It is verydifficult to break the cycle once you’ve started goingdown that road. Lack of choices, lack of viablealternatives, lack of suitable housing, substance misusemanagement, employment — those things that the restof us take for granted — it removes people’s choice orlimits their choices. I don’t think the vast majority of

people out there are aware ofthat and are aware of the sheerdepth of social exclusion that youcan see in prisons.

MF: An increasing numberof prisons are potentially tobe managed by privatecompanies in the near futureand there will be potentiallywider opportunities for thevoluntary and charitablesector. What are the benefitsand risks of these changes foryou?

KE: The benefits are — ifthey use specialist agencies, likeNacro, who have got a proventrack record of providing highquality effective resettlementservices — that you have anagency there that can provide

real support and that is reflective of the needs of theclient group. We believe that, if we put the right toolsin place, we can help an offender stop committingcrime. So that’s a very different standpoint to astatutory body that is going down a punishment road.So, whether it’s Nacro or another voluntary sectororganisation, organisations coming from that viewpointand that are focused on providing support have adifferent emphasis.

We’re commissioned to do projects, attract fundsand our money goes back into our client base. I do feelthere are a lot of benefits to having a mix betweenstatutory and privately funded prisons.

MF: What do you think are the biggestproblems in the prison system (48.51)?

KE: I wrote a long list! The thing for me is theemphasis on punishment versus rehabilitation. Everytime we launch a new community payback scheme, theDaily Mail and the Daily Mirror goes wild with

Issue 196 41

We believe that, ifwe put the righttools in place, wecan help anoffender stop

committing crime.So that’s a very

different standpointto a statutory bodythat is going downa punishment road.



‘Murderer Gets to Work in a Cinema’ or somethingreally ludicrous and they don’t really unpick the storybehind that. Ultimately, if we stop people committingcrime, we’ve got safer societies and isn’t that what wewant rather than these big full prisons and people withno chance of ever changing?

A lack of resources reminds me a little bit ofprimary care trusts. Depending on where you live willdepend on what medical services you get. So, it’s a bitlike a postcode lottery. Some prisons are really wellresourced, really well managed. Others have nothing. Ithink there’s a real disparity. Depending on where yougo will depend what your likelihood is of coming outand reoffending. So some consistency would be good.

Also there are ineffective education departments.Yes, maths and English are great and we do need tohave literacy and numeracy, but if we’ve got someonewho never did that at school, why do we think they’regoing to do it now in prison? Look at alternatives, givethem qualifications that they can actually use to go andwork outside. There are really good examples of wherethat can be hugely positive. I know in Portland they doa bricks qualification attached to some sort of CORGIregistry. Yes, they teach them maths, but they don’tknow that it’s necessarily maths!

There is a lack of support for the families ofoffenders, particularly in the female estate. A womancan be miles away from her child. In the male estatethat not every prison will have family visits. How do youmaintain a relationship with your child? We know thatchildren of offenders are more likely to end up in prison.So we need to make sure that his children aresupported as well so that we’re not creating anothergeneration of offenders.

Having worked with children of offenders, they areat such risk and they have such issues. They feel guilt.They feel resentment. They feel anger and so there hasto be a way for them to explore those feelings andsupport them through that. There are some reallyinteresting projects out there for prisons and families.We have visits with specialised workers that supportthose discussions. That’s really important.

72 per cent of male offenders suffer from two ormore mental disorders5. Now for me, that’s staggering.They’re not always picked up or managed in the sameway and what typically happens is that they’ll be pickedup in prison once it’s got to a psychosis episode. Sowhere’s all the management before that?

Finally, as I keep saying throughout this wholething, is that prison as it stands just does not addressthe root cause of crime. What are the real triggers ofcrime? Is it economic? Is it a social problem? Is itpsychological? What is it? Let’s try and put somesupport packages in place to stop it happening again.

MF: What are the things that get in the wayof prisons being more like you would want themto be?

KE: Negative media attention and the example Ialways give of this was the big media furore thatcame out when one of the papers reported thatTravelodge was recruiting women from AskhamGrange Prison. It was all over the papers. You know,‘Local Hotel Recruits 3 Murderers’. Travelodge got allthese complaints about the fact that people werecoming to stay in a hotel where there might beconvicted criminals working. If we gave people theopportunity to work and build up savings for whenthey’re released, they would be more independent onrelease. They would not be reliant on welfare and sothey’ve got more of an opportunity to move on withtheir lives. So, for me, that was an innovative,pioneering project that should be championed andcelebrated and it just got ripped to shreds in thepapers.

Also, negative public perception towardsrehabilitation programmes and community sentences— which are often described as soft options — is reallydamaging to trying to offer a system that rehabilitatesand offers people the opportunity to change.

MF: If you could do one thing to improve theeffectiveness of the prison service, what would itbe?

KE: The thing that I’ve kept saying all the waythrough would be a resettlement strategy that reallylooks to address the root cause of crime, puts insupport to address that and allows offenders a chancefor change. I guess, finally, reform what I can onlydescribe as a fundamentally failing system. It doesn’twork. Why do we keep spending money on it? I justreally hope that a lot of the findings in this Green Papersuggest a need for a solid resettlement strategy and theneed for alternatives. I just hope that the governmentare brave enough to stand up to the Daily Mail readersand, you know, start putting some of those systems inplace. The proof will be in the pudding!

42 Issue 196

5. See note 1.



Caroline Edwards has for two years been a part-time volunteer for Shannon Trust1, working inlocal prisons to train reading mentors and supportaccess to literacy amongst prisoners. She iscurrently working with staff and prisoners at HMPPentonville and HMP Wandsworth in London.

Shannon Trust runs the Toe by Toe Reading Plan,an award-winning peer mentoring programme thatencourages and supports prisoners who can read, togive one-to-one tuition to prisoners who struggle toread. Several thousand prisoners have been taught toread with the support of the Trust. The organisationwas founded in 1997 by Christopher Morgan, a farmerfrom Sussex who, having joined a pen friend schemerun by the Prison Reform Trust, was shocked at thelevels of poor literacy among prisoners.

Caroline Edwards is employed full-time as theCommunity Investment Director of a City-basedinvestment bank. Her work involves developing andimplementing the bank’s community programmeincluding staff volunteer programmes andmanagement of its UK charity partnerships.

RT: From your perspective, what are theeffects of the fact that we are locking upincreasing numbers of people in prison? What arethe consequences for you of prisons being full?

CE: I know this is a complex and multifacetedissue, but the upward increase in the prison populationis unsustainable. Not to mention expensive. And do wereally have so many more ‘bad’ people in society than20 years ago when the prison population was around40,000? Government statistics tell us that the crimerate is falling.

There has been a significant increase in shortsentences for minor offences, and custodial sentencesgiven to women, children and the mentally ill. Surelyprison should be a last resort and for those who pose aconsiderable risk to others? If one of the responsibilities ofthe prison system is to rehabilitate offenders — as muchfor the victims as well as those in prison, and if almost twothirds reoffend within two years of leaving prison, then itstrikes me that we are not doing this very well.

Many prisoners that I speak to seem to be going inand out of prisons for much of the time. The spell inprison is long enough to disrupt their lives and test theirbonds with family and community, but too short forthem to benefit from education or training opportunities

inside. Going back into society with a criminal record andinsufficient life skills does not increase the chances ofmany prisoners to change their lives.

RT: Politicians often use the term ‘BrokenSociety’ Do you think this describes the world thatthe prisoners you work with come from?

CE: I don’t like the term ‘broken society’. It has akind of inevitability about it and locks people in. Doesour society have problems? Yes, of course it does. Myexperience of London is that it really is a city of twohalves where extreme wealth sits alongside grindingpoverty. The life chances of many of the young peopleI meet in the poorest parts of London are significantlydifferent from those of their counterparts growing up inleafier areas. It is often those from poorer backgroundswhose dysfunction and bad luck will come together inprison.

RT: Do you think prisons can help with socialproblems like unemployment, drug use and familybreakdown?

CE: I don’t see prison as a solution to socialproblems, rather I see prisons as a mirror of our society,reflecting the fraught and tangled lives of, usually,young men, which have resulted from social instability,poverty, family breakdown and anti-social behaviour.

RT: Does imprisonment make it easier orharder for prisoners to make positive changes totheir lives?

CE: I don’t think there is a ‘one-size-fits-all’ answerto this question. The circumstances and actions leadingto imprisonment are different for every prisoner, andthe experience of being inside and how each oneresponds to the environment will vary considerably.

Being in prison obviously removes prisoners fromthe life and life style they were leading beforeconviction and it can be an environment in which toreflect on past choices and actions. Opportunities doexist in prison for personal development; access toeducation, counsellors and health professionals; all ofwhich will contribute to making positive life changes.

But the high rates of reoffending, the ’revolvingdoor’ many prisoners seem to be locked into, suggeststhat many prisoners are not making lasting positivechanges. Many prisoners will have come from chaoticlives which have lacked routine and purpose. Many willhave low educational attainment and have notexperienced good role models. I think the Prison Service

Issue 196 43

Interview: Worker for a smallcharitable organisation

Caroline Edwards is a part-time volunteer for Shannon Trust. She is interviewed by Ray Taylor who is a prisonofficer at HMP Pentonville.

1. The views expressed in this interview reflect those of the interviewee and not necessarily those of Shannon Trust.



is doing its best to deal with these troubled andtroubling individuals, and it can work if it is not overloaded and under resourced. Development of basicskills such as numeracy and literacy; the ability to selfmanage and awareness of how to live back in thecommunity are essential skills every prisoner shouldhave as they return into society.

RT: The Government wants to achieve what itis calling a ‘rehabilitation revolution’. From yourpoint of view, what are the areas where morecould be done to help prisoners go straight onrelease?

CE: It sounds good and I believe anything ispossible. I do wonder what will be completely andradically different? I certainlyhope that there is something wecan do to reduce recidivism. Weneed to work with prisoners,support them in making betterlife choices while they are inside,so that they can act on thosechoices when they are out.Prisoners need greater supporton release as they adjust to lifeon the outside. And, yes,charities can help with thisworking in conjunction withother statutory agencies. There isdefinitely a role for the voluntarysector. I am curious about howthis will be achieved in thecurrent climate of austerity.

RT: What kind of work ortraining do you think could beintroduced to prisons?

CE: I know the Justice Secretary wants to end‘enforced idleness’ in prisons, and introduce a regime ofwork. From my experience of HMP Pentonville,prisoners seem to spend an incredible amount of timelocked up in their cells, and I understand the challengesprisons face in balancing time out of cells for prisonerswith staffing levels and costs.

The links between skills levels, unemployment andcrime are well documented. The introduction of work ortraining opportunities that will equip prisoners with skillsthat would lead to employment opportunities on release,has to be welcomed. The type of work would depend onthe category of prison, the local area and physicalconstraints or possibilities of each prison’s estate.

RT: Would you welcome the opportunity forprisoners ‘pay something back’ to the communityfor their crimes, either financially, through somekind of unpaid work, or by meeting their victim?

CE: I think we would all like a world with less crimeand more justice. The doubling of the prison populationover the past two decades suggests we are not

achieving these goals and stimulates the ‘does prisonwork?’ debate. I’m interested in the approaches ofrestorative justice and offender accountability inreducing reoffending and linking offenders with theircommunities. If we are working to rehabilitate andintegrate prisoners back into society and reduceoffending then we need to work with prisoners so thatthey aware of the consequences of their actions.Studies both in the UK and abroad suggest thatrestorative justice programmes do have positiveoutcomes particularly with young offenders.

RT: How has the prisoner experience shiftedin recent years?

CE: Having only been involved for just two years Ican only answer that fromspeaking to prisoners and fromwhat I have observed of the staffand prisoner relationship.Prisoners tell me that things haveimproved greatly over the pastdecades and certainly therelationship with staff is muchmore positive and productive. Ihave observed little animositybetween prisoners and officers,for instance. Relations seem to bevery friendly. The environmentitself seems to me to be quiteunfriendly, the gates and the barsand security is what I wouldexpect, but it can be very noisy,but then I have only been thereduring the day.

RT: What are the aspectsof working in prison that people outside are leastaware of?

CE: Real prison reform requires political will andpreparedness to champion penal reform almost in spiteof public opinion. Politicians do not want to be seen tobe too soft on crime but the vast majority of peoplenever enter a prison and rely on the media forinformation about life on the inside. This opens the wayto media exploitation of the public fear of crime andbeing afraid of becoming victims of crime. I wouldn’tdescribe the environment I’ve seen in the two prisons Iwork in, as holiday camp.

RT: An increasing number of prisons arepotentially to be managed by private companiesin the near future and there will be potentiallywider opportunities for the voluntary andcharitable sector. What are the benefits and risksof these changes for you?

CE: I find the prisons and the private sector to bestrange bedfellows. Prisons provide a service to society.We look to the state to provide certain key services suchas health and crime prevention. Private companies are

44 Issue 196

Prisoners needgreater support onrelease as they

adjust to life on theoutside. And, yes,charities can helpwith this working inconjunction withother statutoryagencies.



by nature profit driven and I wonder how this will sitwith the rehabilitation agenda. Prisons are expensivebecause they are all about people and security. To giveprisoners more time out of their cells requires moreprison staff to supervise them. Whilst I believecompetition is healthy and that the private sector willintroduce innovative practices, I wonder howperformance will be measured particularly payment byresults against rehabilitation metrics? It will also beinteresting to see whether the private sector would bewilling to take over some of the older prisons wherethe estate requires much greater resources to run a 21stcentury facility. Or is there huge potential for cherrypicking and where will that leave the public sector?

RT: What do you think are the biggestproblems in the prison system?

CE: I think the biggest single problem is the size ofthe prison population. The rising population has put agreat deal of added pressure on staff and resources,making it difficult to concentrate on the job ofrehabilitation. Another problem is not making use ofthe time prisoners have on the inside. A lot of the timespent in prison is idle time. I know that it is in the natureof prisons to waste time, and I know that it is often dueto lack of resources but I feel this is such a waste.

RT: What are the things that get in the way ofprisons being more like you would want them tobe?

CE: The main obstacles to reform are the size ofthe prison population and the failure to break the cycleof offending. These coupled with the increasingsqueeze on resources and the downward pressure onbudgets will make it increasingly difficult to reform thesystem in the short term.

RT: What do you think are the biggestproblems in the prison system? If you couldintroduce one change what would it be?

CE: If there is one thing I would change it would belevels of literacy. Nearly half the prison population havea reading ability below that expected of an 11-year old1.This is in a developed nation. If over 90 per cent of allemployment in the UK requires employees to be able toread, half of all offenders leaving prison are unable todo this. I would love to think that anyone who enteredprison not being able to read could leave being literateor having acquired an additional skill. This has thepotential to make a significant contribution to therehabilitation process. The Toe by Toe reading scheme,for instance, began in HMP Wandsworth prison in thelate 1990s and through small steps we were able tointroduce it to many prisons. When it comes to makingreal change, it’s not just the big bold projects thatcount. Sometimes we need to do the small things tomake bigger changes.

Issue 196 45

1. Social Exclusion Unit (2002) Reducing Re-offending by Ex-Prisoners. London: Social Exclusion Unit.



Book ReviewSongs from the Black Chair:A Memoir of Mental InteriorsBy Charles BarberPublisher: University of NebraskaPress (2005)ISBN: 978-0803212985(hardback), 978-0803259751(paperback)Price: £14.99 (hardback), £10.99(paperback)

Over the last twenty years,the most significant thing I havelearned is this: if you slam doorsnow, you’re less likely to killyourself later (p. 198).

I read this book in twosittings. On the way to and fromParis (a city that features in thestoryline, symbolising hope), withno time between journeys. Icouldn’t put it down, despitehaving to steel myself slightly toread it. It is human, vivid, tender,moving and breathtakinglyinsightful. What a contrast withthe objectifying accounts ofpsychiatric illness found in somany scientific journals, with theirstultifying labels and lack ofhuman narrative. This is a movinglife story, full of wisdom, withthree main protagonists. There aremany losses, and setbacks, andonly one survivor. But the authortells us about more than one life.He makes sense of the self-inflicted deaths of close friends, atthe same time he describes withsensitivity how difficult thesetragic endings are to endure. Atleast one of these casedescriptions (friendships thatended) made me cry.

The book is in the sameleague as Stuart: A Life LivedBackwards (Alexander Masters2006), and Elling (IngvarAmbjornsen 2007), in telling thestory of being at the edge of

mental illness (obsessionalcompulsive disorder, in his case),violence, suicide, homelessness,and exclusion, drawing onintimate knowledge of thecondition, and showing a deepsympathy for others who aresimilarly placed. In this case, thebook includes a beautiful accountof where the disorder abates(wearing new shirts, clean socks,writing) and the steps madetowards recovery and professionalflourishing, once Barber finds hisway into research and writing onthe condition from which he hassuffered (like Kay Jamisonachieved for borderline personalitydisorder before him in An UnquietMind, 1997). The importance ofrecognising his own earlystrangeness (those words, thoseintrusions, the avoidance, theanxiety) as symptoms, of findingtherapies that worked for him,even when they seemedridiculous, and of working outthrough his friendships that whatunites people can sometimes betheir unseen vulnerabilities, arebeautifully articulated. Life feltbetter out of the rat race, when hecould be ‘his physical being’,among disabled children whoplayed, instead of trying to be afully functioning professionalHarvard student who talks.

The best part of the book iswhere he describes the role ofhope and creativity on seeingHitchcock’s Rear Window, orWilliam Styron describing inDarkness Visible how he heardBrahms’s Alto Rhapsody and theworld seemed beautiful, exquisite,and expressable. Excellence in artgave him ‘something to live for’ —the horror of the worldtransformed into somethingcreative and meaningful. Or abook of interviews with John

Lennon, in which heacknowledged his own despair,and its passing. These pages addso much weight to the argumentfor ‘the arts’ (whether in prisons,hospitals, schools, or life moregenerally) as life affirming, ratherthan as ‘entertainment’ (as theyhave become branded in theprisons context). Later in the earlystages of a hopeful turn in thebook, Barber reenters the world ofexpression and language: ‘it waslike water flowing again’. One canrecover the capacity to speakfreely.

I loved the vivid portrayal ofhis satisfaction on contemplatinga deep bite, inflicted by abefriended and disturbed child:now he had a deep wound toshow to the world: ‘see mytribulations’ and feel for me. Hisanger at ‘the well’ and in charge(Dr’s, Professors, andpsychologists), and the world(cars, the universe, ‘managedmental health care’, and God) isrendered wholly understandable.The lessons he learns throughouthis troubled recovery add up like astack of gold:

There are two types ofdeeply troubled people: thosewho inflict their pain onothers, and those who do not(p. 132).The trick is to know you can

relate to clients in theirgeneral sense of dislocation,but to avoid specificallyembracing, or endorsing, theirpathology. Fitzgerald — myliterary compass — wrotefamously: ‘The test of a firstrate intelligence is the abilityto hold two opposed ideas inthe mind at the same time,and still retain the ability tofunction’. It is exactly thatknack that is required to work

Issue 196 47

Reviews


effectively with psychoticpeople: you must hear andunderstand as best you cantheir version of distortedreality, while remaining stablyin your world’ (p. 138-9).He intuits from his own

experience that listeningsympathetically, not ‘instructing’,or ‘arguing them out of theirpsychotic beliefs’ — ‘sitting wherethey sit’ — offers comfort,support, and a gentle invitation toshare thoughts and feelings thathave meaning. He trawls throughthe assorted notebooks of apsychotic friend, presumed dead,and finds meaning (and anexplanation) the way a detectivefinds clues. Good research skillsand good clinical skills share thischaracteristic. No wonder he hasturned to research.

The author describes thecombined experience of illnessand good health — there are‘islands of functioning’ in amongthe craziness. In the end, he tames‘the violent threats of his ownOCD’ and finds work he loves,researching how to get peopleinto psychiatric treatment:

I found it exhilarating. Itwas exhilarating that peoplelike John entrusted me withtheir stories, and it wasexhilarating to observe himappear to get better. I felt likeI was doing something withmy life, which was anunaccustomed, somewhatodd, and deeply pleasurablesensation’ (p. 173).There are other gems in the

book — how do a group of‘psychotic (and self-absorbed..)clients’ respond to the suicidebombing of the Twin Towers?

I puzzled over the clients’bizarre stability, theirincredible lightness of moodright after the attacks. Andthen I realised that on that dayonly, the world’s traumamatched their own. They liveout the violence and despair

and bloodiness and trauma of9-11 every day, and it was anenormous relief that for oneor two days the worldexperienced that same level oftrauma. They weren’t aloneany more, and they felt goodand … normal. For once,everybody else felt like them.That’s what mental illnessdoes to you. (p. 176)Laura, when she appears,

becomes a figure with therapeuticstrength — with her sensiblepragmatism, her lack ofjudgmental feeling, and wisesticking power. The account endshopefully:

What a wonderful,miraculous, extraordinarything stability is, it doesn’tmatter how you get there, Ithought, as I headed home...’(p. 188).Even in the depth of his

confusion, Barber had recognisedthat there were things he wantedto do — ‘travel, dance, go to Paris,meet A S Byatt’. He could see that‘the world was extreme anddivergent, terrible and beautiful atthe same time’ (p. 195). Parts ofthe book’s underlying messagereminded me of Mary Midgley’smore philosophical memoirs inThe Owl of Minerva. A differentstory, but the same conclusion, hertitle drawn from Hegel’sPhilosophy of Right: that ‘the owlof Minerva spreads its wings onlywith the falling of the dusk’; thatsometimes great insight orwisdom is possible only whenthings become dark and difficult.We should explore the darkness,and deal with new confusions,rather than turning our backs oneverything difficult and doubtful.Barber’s book is a perceptive andmoving testament to this truth.

Professor Alison Liebling isDirector of the Prison PesearchCentre at the Institute ofCriminology, University ofCambridge.

Book ReviewDrugs, Crime and PublicHealth: The political economyof drug policyby Alex StevensPublisher: Routledge (2010)ISBN: 978-0-415-49104-4(hardback)Price: £75.00 (hardback)

When you pick up a bookwith the words ‘political economy’in the title, you know you havepicked up a book that leans to theleft. Drugs, Crime and PublicHealth is no exception. Its aim,says author Alex Stevens, is tochange the way you think aboutthe links between drugs, crimeand public health. Certainly, thebold approach of this work goes along way to challenging receivedwisdom about the drug-crimeconnection.

Stevens, who is Professor inCriminal Justice at the Universityof Kent, begins by looking at thehistorical context of drugs laws inBritain and the USA where, fromthe nineteenth century, legislatorshave sought to control the dangerof imported drugs and the newimmigrant populations that wereperceived to be responsible. Thusit was, argues Stevens, that rightfrom the start government policieson both sides of the Atlantic haveidentified the drugs problem withunwanted foreigners. Theunderlying theme of this book isthat the causal link from drugs tocrime is exaggerated, and that thefocus of attention of legislatorsand law enforcement has beenstrictly on the poor and minorities,blaming them for the drugsmenace. In particular, Stevens isheavily critical of the ‘tripartiteframework’ which he feels is tooreadily accepted as the basis ofthinking in many studies on thesubject of drugs misuse and,consequently, in policydevelopment. The tripartitemodel, elaborated by PaulGoldstein uses a tripartite




conceptual framework forexamining the drug-crimerelationship. In this model, thereare three possible links betweendrugs and violent crime:psychopharmacological, economiccompulsive, and systemic.Psychopharmacological effects ofdrug use are proposed as directcauses of violence while drugsusers are thought to initiateeconomic crimes in order to payfor their anti-social habits.Systemic violence is said to derivefrom the inherently violentcharacteristics of the trade indrugs. For instance, in Goldstein’sview, violence may be used bydrug dealers to control marketsand territories, to enforcepayment and otherwise toregulate a market that cannot beregulated by legal means.

Stevens provides substantialresearch evidence that may beused to question the veracity ofthe Goldstein model. ‘Looked atclosely,’ says Stevens, ‘thetripartite framework and many ofthe studies that have inherited itsblinkered approach to the drug-crime link fail to match up to thecomplex social reality that isincreasingly visible through thework of sociologists andanthropologists’. He goes on topropose an alternative way ofthinking about the drug-crimelink. Drugs and crime, to Stevens,are both instances of a process of‘subterranean structuration’ andlinked together by powerful forcesof attraction to those who ‘havebeen relegated to the underside oflater modern employment andconsumption’. From thisperspective, although manypeople from all walks of life mayjourney into damaging patterns ofdrugs use, it is mainly the poorwho journey into crime. In orderto break the drug-crime link, saysStevens, we must reduce socialinequality. He also argues that anydrug-crime causal link can workeither way. Offenders, for

instance, may be attracted to druguse by increased resources andaccess. Moreover, problem druguse and offending may well gohand in hand because those whooffend or misuse drugs oftencome from the same deprivedbackgrounds. In which case, thelink may not be causal at all.

The book does not askreaders simply to accept thisalternative discourse at face value,but seeks to demonstrate thefailings of the Goldstein modelwith a critical look at some of theresearch that supplied thejustification of the tripartitetheory. In numerous examples, it isshown how the relationshipbetween crime and drug use ordrug users has been an assumedrelationship based on theprejudice of the observer at thetime. For instance, in one examplein New York, a 26 year oldattempted to rape, and thenmurdered, his 56 year oldbabysitter. The offence wasrecorded as being crack-related,even though the perpetrator wasdrunk at the time and, himself,put the offence down to alcohol.Another case was classified aspsychopharmacological becausethe perpetrator stated he believedthe victim was about to rob him tofinance a drug habit, even thoughthere was no evidence of anattempted robbery. These andfurther examples show how muchof the evidence may have beenshoehorned into the desiredclassification in order todemonstrate how the tripartitemodel works in practice. Therewould also appear to be a dearthof subsequent testing of theGoldstein model. Thus, to Stevens,‘The tripartite framework mayhave ‘intuitive appeal’ but it stillhas little empirical support’.

Such selective use of evidenceis even more prevalent in policymaking where, to Stevens, itprovides the means to highlightdrug motivated crime and to

ignore other harms from illicitdrug use such as death of users,the spread of diseases such as HIVand hepatitis B and the neglect ofchildren. It follows that theargument in favour of control ofillicit drug use and treatment ofdrug users is boiled down to acost-benefit analysis showing thata reduction in drug use will resultin a reduction in crime andtherefore a reduction in the cost ofcrime. Any health benefit ofincreased access to treatmentprogrammes then becomessecondary to the cost benefit of anexpected reduction in offending.

The book provides aninteresting discussion of thecontroversy over thereclassification of cannabis,contrasting the governmentdecision to followrecommendations to downgradecannabis from class B to class C in2004, with the decision to returncannabis to its class B status in2009 in advance of an impendinggeneral election, despite expertadvice against this U-turn. Thisdiscussion (based oncontemporary research) showsthat the reclassification decisionsprior to 2009 were based onselective use of research by peoplewithin the machinery ofgovernment who are in a goodposition to make policy decisions.Stevens argues that decisions suchas these may be made before theevidence is selected in order tosupport the foregone conclusions.To Stevens, this demonstrateswhat he calls ‘the willingness ofpeople who hold power to listento stories which do not challengethat power.’

Stevens goes on to challengethe belief in the power of the DrugInterventions Programme (DIP) toreduce drug related offending.Although he accepts that DIPs canhelp reduce offending, he arguesthat there is insufficient researchwork done using control groups toestablish the extent of that effect.

Issue 196 49


Research may suggest that DIPregions see a reduction in offendingwhile offending has also fallenduring the same periods in non-DIPregions. Any difference between DIPand non-DIP reductions inoffending, suggests Stevens, maynot be justified by the cost of theprogramme in the DIP region.

Drugs Crime and PublicHealth should not be seen simplyas a cynical swipe at policies andprogrammes aimed at reducingdrug related offending. The bookacknowledges the benefits thathave derived from the increasedavailability of drug treatments,including the reduction in drugrelated offending. However, theflip-side of the perceived drug-crime link, argues Stevens, is thehuge increase in the number ofdrug users in prison and thetargeting of the poor and blackand other minorities by lawenforcement, since white affluentdrug users are hardly touchedwhen it comes to arrest andconviction for drug offences,despite the fact that drug use itselfis widespread through all socialstrata. The only disappointingaspect of this book is that,although it decries the lack ofemphasis on the health relatedharms of drugs misuse, it does notdelve deeper into the healthimpact of drug treatment policies.

A thoroughly researched andconvincingly argued treatiseagainst prevailing attitudes to thedrugs crime link, Drugs Crime andPublic Health provides a usefulgrounding in the subject for thecasual reader as well as a deeperinsight to anyone reading from aprofessional or academicperspective. This work is highlyrecommended to anyoneinterested in drug policy and drugrelated offending.

Ray Taylor is a prison officer atHMP Pentonville.

Book ReviewPositive Practice PositiveOutcomes: a handbook forprofessionals in the criminaljustice system working withoffenders with learningdisabilitiesBy Department of HealthPublisher: Department of Health(2011)Price: available as a freedownload1

The handbook, PositivePractice Positive Outcomes (PPPO),was first published in 2007. Thislatest edition, produced andpublished by the Department ofHealth and Valuing People inMarch 2011, is an updated versionof the original publication. It isdescribed as being ‘best practiceguidance’ providing ‘information,practical advice, sign-posting andbest practice examples for criminaljustice professionals working withoffenders with learning disabilitiesand learning difficulties’. Althoughthe primary focus is on offenderswith learning disabilities, contenton specific learning difficultiessuch as dyslexia, and on autismspectrum disorder and attentiondeficit hyperactive disorder(ADHD) is also included. Thetarget audience is broad andincludes professionals working inhealthcare, offender health, adultand children’s social services,commissioning and specialisedcommissioning, as well as criminaljustice professionals such as thepolice, probation services, theprison service and the courts.

PPPO (2011) contains anintroduction, eleven numberedsections, a section on resourcesand a ‘useful local contacts’ page,which encourages the reader tocomplete his or her own list oflocal contacts. The first sevensections provide informationrelevant to the whole targetaudience, and these are:

1. What is a learning disabilityand a learning difficulty?

2. Learning disability and thecriminal justice system

3. The health and social careneeds of people withlearning disabilities

4. Recent developments5. Key legislation6. Getting help and support7. Effective communication.

Four further sections followon information specific to thepolice service, the courts service,the prison service and theprobation service.

The handbook is well laid outand the use of diagrams, ‘positivepractice’ examples, case studiesand quotes from practitioners helpto make it readily accessible andrelevant to the reader. The list of‘actions’ at the end of eachsection is helpful and encouragesthe reader to obtain furtherinformation and resources, and tocreate their own data set of localinformation.

This review will consider theintroduction and each of theeleven sections in turn, followedby an overall comment on thehandbook.

The introduction is clear andconcise. It sets out the importanceof the subject matter and providesa context for the handbook; itstates the intention of thehandbook, which is to provide ‘anintroduction to working withoffenders with learningdisabilities’ and informs the readerthat the handbook is ‘not adiagnostic manual’.

Section 1 defines what alearning disability is and providespractical examples of what itmeans to have a learning disabilityand the sort of help that peoplewith a learning disability mightneed. It informs the reader thatpeople with a learning disability are


1. Available from http://www.dh.gov.uk/prod_consum_dh/groups/dh_digitalassets/documents/digitalasset/dh_124744.pdf



‘people first’ and, while they willhave shared characteristics, theyare all ‘individual’ and will havedifferent support needs.Descriptions of specific learningdifficulties such as dyslexia,dyspraxia, dyscalculia and ADHDare given, alongside the kinds ofproblems and support needs thatpeople with such conditions mighthave. Autism and Aspergersyndrome are included and thereader is informed that manypeople with autism also have alearning disability. Two short lists of‘actions’ encourage the reader toseek out further information onspecific learning difficulties andautism spectrum disorder, andinclude details about furtherresources such as Autism: a guidefor criminal justice professionals,which can be downloaded from theNational Autistic Society website.

Section 2 informs the readerthat people with learningdisabilities who enter the criminaljustice system should be identifiedand provided with the necessarysupport so they are able toparticipate effectively in thecriminal justice process. Thenumber of people in the criminaljustice system with learningdisabilities and learning difficultiesis highlighted, and some simplequestions are given that will helpstaff to recognise if an individualmight have a learning disability.

Section 3 introduces thereader to the particular health andsocial care needs frequentlyexperienced by people with alearning disability and highlightsthe need for a multi-agencyresponse to help prevent furtheroffending.

The fourth and fifth sectionsprovide the context and legislativeframework as it relates tooffenders with learningdisabilities. In particular, Section 4introduces the reader to ValuingPeople Now1 and the four guidingprinciples promoted for peoplewith learning disabilities; TheBradley Report2, which is LordBradley’s review of people withmental health problems orlearning disabilities in the criminaljustice system, and the PrisonReform Trust’s No One Knows andOut of Trouble programmes3.While Section 5 considersdisability discrimination and theEqualities Act (2010), the MentalHealth Act (1983 and 2007) andthe Mental Capacity Act (2005).Further, Section 5 highlightsspecific policies and guidancerelevant to the different criminaljustice agencies, such as PrisonService Order 2855 on prisonerswith disabilities.

Learning to recognise that anindividual might have a learningdisability is important, butknowing how to get theappropriate help and support canmake a significant and positivedifference for people with learningdisabilities who come into contactwith the criminal justice system.The sixth section provides helpfulinformation about the range ofstatutory and non-statutoryorganisations that can providehelp and support locally, whilerecognising that not all local areaswill have access to the same levelsof support — for example, onlyaround a third of magistrates’courts have access to criminaljustice liaison and diversion

schemes. The ‘positive practice’examples in this section areespecially helpful in demonstratingwhat can be done locally to ensurethat help and support isforthcoming, and the list of‘actions’ at the end of the sectionsuggests that a proactiveapproach is needed.

Section 7 provides anextremely helpful introduction toeffective communication includingwhat can go wrong when aperson’s communication needs areleft unrecognised and unmet. Itdescribes the different ways peoplecommunicate, for example, spokenand written communication,listening, body language and theimportance of checking anindividual’s understanding. Thissection provides a wealth ofpractical tips and techniques formore effective communication.

Sections 8 to 11 provideinformation for professionalsworking in or with each of thedifferent criminal justice servicesincluding police, courts, prisonand probation. Collectively theyprovide a valuable overview of thecriminal justice system as it relatesto suspects, defendants, offendersand prisoners with a learningdisability. Each section containsdetailed information about ‘Rightsand Responsibilities’, relevantpolicies and guidance, and‘positive practice’ examples.

Overall, Positive Practice PositiveOutcomes claims to be ‘best practiceguidance’ providing ‘information,practical advice, sign-posting andbest practice examples for criminaljustice professionals working withoffenders with learning disabilitiesand learning difficulties’; it does all

Issue 196 51

1. Valuing People Now: a new three-year strategy for people with learning disabilities ‘Making it happen for everyone’ (HM Government,2009).

2. The Bradley Report: Lord Bradley’s review of people with mental health problems or learning disabilities in the criminal justice system(Department of Health, 2009).

3. No One Knows was the Prison Reform Trust (PRT) programme that examined the experiences of people with learning disabilities anddifficulties who offend. A number of publications were produced and a series of recommendations were made. See, in particular, thepublication, Prisoners Voices. Out of Trouble is the PRT programme to reduce child imprisonment. An integral part of the programmeconsiders children with particular impairments and difficulties, including learning disabilities. See, in particular, the publication, Seenand Heard. Publications from the No One Knows and Out of Trouble programmes can be downloaded free of charge from the PRTwebsite, www.prisonreformtrust.org.uk.


of that and more. It provides acomprehensive and straightforwardintroduction to the subject; itassumes little in the way of priorknowledge and so avoids thecreation of ‘knowledge gaps’ for thereader. However, should the readerrequire further clarification, the listsof ‘actions’ throughout thehandbook and the section onresources provide a wealth of furtherinformation and practical guidance.It also encourages activity andfurther learning; the tonethroughout is one of application —what can the reader do to enhancehis or her way of working? Similarly,the reader is introduced at an earlystage to the need for multi-agencyworking and the importance offorging good working relationshipsbetween criminal justice, health andsocial care. There are manymisunderstandings concerningpeople with learning disabilities, inparticular what it means to have alearning disability, the differencesbetween learning disabilities andlearning difficulties, and betweenlearning disabilities and mentalhealth problems. PPPO provides clearand concise descriptions for thereader, including the differentnames, terminology and labels used.The reader is clearly told that peoplewith a learning disability are ‘peoplefirst’ and should be treated as such.

Many individuals andorganisations have contributed tothe revised version of PPPO, andthese are acknowledged in thepublication. Special thanks andcongratulations should, however, begiven to the primary author, NeishaBetts, who has created such avaluable handbook, and to membersof the Working for Justice group —people with learning disabilities withdirect experience of the criminaljustice system— for their insight andadvice.

Jenny Talbot is the ProgrammeManager for Learning Difficultiesand Disabilities in Prison at thePrison reform Trust.

Book ReviewCorrectional mental health:From theory to best practiceEdited by: Thomas Fagan andRobert AxPublisher: Sage PublicationsISBN: 9781412972567(paperback)Price: £33.99 (paperback)

Correctional institutions havebecome the primary providers ofmental health services in theUnited States. American prisonsand jails house 775 000 seriouslymentally ill people compared to apopulation of 55 000 in statemental hospitals. However, theeditors of this volume note,correctional mental health is underresearched and developed. Withthis text they aim to provide apractical guide on how toestablish and manage acorrectional mental healthpractice.

The first section introducesthe context in which forensicmental health operates, describesthe various stages and forms thecriminal justice system takes,compares and contrasts mentalhealth services in community andcorrectional settings, and endswith a chapter detailing thespecific challenges of managingmental health services in acorrectional environment. Thematerial will familiar to anyoneexperienced in the field,nonetheless the last chapter of thesection does a respectable job ofsummarising the conflicts that canarise between the objectives ofsecurity and care, and would beinstructive for students lackingexperience of secureenvironments.

The second section providesan overview of the researchrelating to clinical assessment,treatment andpsychopharmacology incorrectional settings, to issuesaround multicultural assessmentand treatment, and to

interdisciplinary working. A goodoverview of various availablepsychometric instruments isoffered, alongside accounts of theevidence base regardingdifficulties such as sociallydesirable responding and theapplications of the interventions inmulticultural contexts.

The third section contains aseries of chapters each dedicatedto specific populations such asjuveniles, women and those withco-morbid disorders. Evidence onprevalence levels is presented,followed by guidance ontreatment options with referenceto their evidence base wherepresent. At this stage the bookbecomes a frustrating read as thechapter authors return to much ofthe material already raised inprevious chapters. Topics such asscreening and barriers totreatment are discussed withoutadding greatly to the coverage inearlier chapters. At the same time,some topics are only raised in thethemed chapters even thoughthey are far more broadlyapplicable — for example the onlydiscussion of therapeuticcommunities occurs in the chapteron women. Having said that, thechapters read well as standaloneprimers on their respective topics.

Approached as a completetext, the book suffers fromattempting to cater for too broadan audience. At times it reads likean elementary text book and atothers like a professional referencebook. The editors say that thebook is intended for primarily foracademic use across the disciplinesof psychology, sociology andcriminal justice, but also that itaddresses correctional mentalhealth practitioners andcorrectional administrators. As anacademic resource it would bestserve the needs of studentsneeding an introduction either tomental health or to secureenvironments, whilst also offeringa platform for exploring the




evidence base in more detail. Asfar as practitioners are concerned,the greatest contribution made bythis book is the second sectionwhich collates a large quantity ofempirical evidence and bestpractice guidance relating to theprovision of mental health servicesin prisons. This section would bean excellent resource to assist thedesign and planning stages ofsuch services.

Many of the influences thathave contributed to the large andgrowing mental health needs inthe US context have parallels inthe UK. The current mental healthneeds in our prisons have beenshaped, as in the US, by thedeinstitutionalisation of mentalhealth care and by substantialgrowth in levels of imprisonment.Therefore many of the dilemmasand general themes that this textrefers to closely reflect thoseencountered here in the UK.However , from the perspective ofa British reader, it is a limitation ofthe book that the legislation, caselaw, and standards referred to inthe book are all American.Moreover, for anyone using thebook as a guide to serviceplanning in the UK, it would benecessary to explore the extent towhich the psychometric researchand psychological programsreferred to have been validated ina British context. Thus for Britishreaders — even more than forAmerican readers — this book willbe of most value when used as aplatform from which to furtherexplore the evidence base thatcould and should underpin themuch needed mental healthservices in our prisons.

Dr. Rachel Bell is a senior officerat HMYOI Feltham.

Book Review:Not Bad for a Bad LadBy Michael MorpurgoPublisher: Templar Publishing(2010)ISBN: 978 1 84877 308 0(hardback)Price: £9.99 (hardback)

As this retired governor hurtlestowards second childhood it isperhaps apt that he should nowrevert to children’s literature. Intruth, it was the ‘A’ board that didit. Revisiting Woodbridge aftersome thirty years, the localbookshop was advertising this workas ‘a story set at Hollesley Bay’.Since that was also the setting formy early story, the urge to purchasewas overwhelming. A book fromthe former Children’s Laureate willhave been eagerly anticipated byyoung readers and, in terms of asimple but cracking story, it doesnot disappoint. But — oh dear.

A grandfather decides to setthe record of his life straight byrevealing his dark secrets to hisgrandson. The fourth of sixchildren, raised in wartime by asingle mother, he often preferredexploring bomb sites to education.At school he was publicly branded‘a brainless, useless good fornothing waste of space’ by hisheadteacher. And if theheadteacher said it, then it had tobe right. The head was just one ofvery many authority figures whodefined him as a bad lot. But atleast he was good at that and, sinceit made him the centre of attention,it imparted some sort of status. Theexception among the teachers wasMiss West, who taught music, withwhom a trusting rapport and a loveof music developed. But she left theschool for no apparent reason andthe vilification continued.

Wandering the streets led topetty thieving, fights, joy riding,fencing of stolen goods and

burglary. And eventually, toborstal. But one thought remainedwith him. Miss West had spokenfor him at court, explaining thathe was good at heart and that hewould ‘come right one day’.

The borstal was Hollesley BayColony and his induction wasterrifying — of which more later.Redemption was around thecorner when he was chosen towork with Suffolk Punch horses atthe borstal stud farm. He becametrusted by the stud hand, Mr Alfie,and was given the care of aparticular horse. It was Mr Alfie’sencouraging words that give thebook its title and the narrator ahope that life might take a turnfor the better. Mr Alfie left, justlike his father and Miss Westbefore. But to reveal more of thestory would be to spoil it for thosewho read the book. There is asomewhat contrived but happyending that children will love. Itinvolves growing up, horses andmusic.

The book allows MichaelMorpurgo further to explore therelationship of man and horse thatwe saw in War Horse and in FarmBoy. He and his wife Clare arerenowned for their charity, Farmsfor City Children. In conflating thisinterest with the Hollesley stud thereader becomes aware of theinstitution’s reliance onagricultural work as ‘a panacea forthe displaced city boy’1 ratherfulfilling the GladstoneCommittee’s 1895 aspiration thatthe institution ‘should be situatedin the country with ample spacefor agricultural and landreclamation work’2. This wastraditionally seen to be ‘healthyoutdoor work’ and ‘very valuabletraining for borstal boys’3. If onlysuch simple formulae had beengrasped by one of my formerHollesley trainees whose workreports from the stud farm were

Issue 196 53

1. Hood, Roger (1965) Borstal Reassessed, London, Heinemann, 127.2. Report of the Departmental Committee on Prisons (1895)3. Gilmour, Sir J (1934) and Hoare, Sir S (1938) HC Debates cited Hood, R. (ibid).


exceptionally good but whoconfided that ‘The trouble is, weain’t got many stud farms on theCaledonian Road!’

On 23 February last yearMichael Morpurgo told TheGuardian that among his set ofrules for writing is that:

‘The notion of a story is, forme, a confluence of realevents, historical perhaps, orfrom my own memory, tocreate an exciting fusion.’

This does not excuse orexplain, no matter how rattling astory it is, the errors that aboundhere. These are both factual, insentencing and allocation termsand also in the careless stereotypeof borstal training MichaelMorpurgo applies to Hollesley BayColony.

Borstal training was anindeterminate sentence. In the1950s, when the story is set, itcould last between nine monthsand three years (later reduced tosix months and two years)depending upon the behaviour ofthe trainee. Magistrates hadlimited sentencing powers andcould only recommend borstaltraining to the higher court whosejob it was to sentence. Here themagistrates, unlawfully, sentencedthe boy to a twelve monthdeterminate term.

He was taken from police cellsdirectly to borstal thus bypassingthe Borstal Allocation Centrewhere, in those days, he wouldhave been interviewed by a

visiting ‘house master’ fromHollesley Bay to assess suitabilityfor its regime. Rogue staff do existand can be cruel but since theHollesley of those days was widelyrecognised for its pioneering andliberal ethos, it is unlikely thatcontemporary inductionprocedures included a gratuitousexemplary beating while stretchedover a vaulting horse in front of acohort of new receptions.

Hollesley Bay Colony had beenself-sufficient in home grown foodsince its days as an agriculturalcollege and, later, as resettlementscheme for the Londonunemployed. The borstal operateda farm shop, open to the public,many decades before these becamefashionable. Yet here, the food was‘always as disgusting as they couldmake it.’ Further, the normalresponse to absconding would havebeen one of disciplinary hearingand transfer but in MichaelMorpurgo’s Hollesley it is one of yetmore beatings.

More errors display a basiclack of research. The centralcharacter ‘liked the two mile runwe had to do before breakfast,because that’s when we got to gooutside the walls’. Hollesley BayColony was an open borstal,without walls. Morpurgo’s wordsmight be taken as metaphoricalbut for one of Michael Foreman’sdelightful illustrations showing thecentral character being releasedthrough a barred prison gatelodge by a prison officer attired ina uniform. Uniforms were notworn in borstals until about

quarter of a century later; officerswore civilian clothes. Further, in anappendix entitled ‘The Factsbehind the Story’ we learn,surprisingly, that:

‘In 1982 the BritishGovernment decided toreplace Borstals with theYoung (sic) Custody Centreswe have today’.

Would it have been too muchto hope, in a section purporting toset out ‘the facts’, that the authormight have informed himself thatborstals were replaced by YouthCustody Centres and, in turn, bythe Young Offender Institutionswe have today?

Is this mere penologicalpedantry? Is it fair to criticise thetext for such inaccuracies when,after all, they will not detract fromthe story for most readers? I think itis. I draw a rough parallel withhistorical content of Sarah Waters’novels where the portrayal ofprisons and other institutions isbased upon meticulously accurateresearch. Michael Morpurgo is nota lawyer, a criminologist, apenologist, or a prisonadministrator. He is a wonderfullyengaging writer and is universallyacclaimed as such. He might not beexpected to know much of that forwhich he is criticised here. But hecould easily have found out.

Peter Quinn is a retired prisongovernor, who was an AssistantGovernor Class 2, at HM BorstalHollesley Bay Colony 1971-76.



Prison Service JournalIssue 196 55

Introduction

As public sector prisons move towards thestaffing level model of profit-making institutions,with their high turnover of personnel who are lesstied to their occupation, a study conducted by theauthors and colleagues, funded by the Economicand Social Research Council (ESRC), warns of apotentially detrimental impact on prison quality.Until now, little has been known about therelative strengths and weaknesses of public andprivate prisons. Today, when the privatisation ofprisons is on the increase and the public sectorstaffing model is becoming more like the privateone, it is vital that we look beyond thestereotypes and assumptions about private sectorprisons to understand the two sectors and theirdifferences. The privatisation ‘experiment’ iscontroversial but provides an importantopportunity to understand better how prisonswork, and how different models may lead todifferent outcomes, and via what mechanisms.The most interesting finding of our study is thatwhen experienced staff in the best private sectorprisons use power, there seems to be more careand less ‘indifference’ in it. One of the weaknessesof private sector prisons is that in pursuingcultural distinctiveness from the sometimes over-bearing culture of public sector prisons, their staffdo not use this (more legitimate) version of powerenough. We expand a little on this interestingfinding below.

The Study

Considerable progress has been made inconceptualising and measuring the quality of life ormoral performance of prisons over a number of

research projects carried out by members of theresearch team over the last ten years.2 One of the keyfindings of this cumulative research programme is thatthe nature and quality of staff-prisoner relationships areamong the most important determinants of the qualityof prison life. The way prison officers conceive andapproach their work, and the way they treat prisonersand use their authority, makes the difference betweena prison that is constructive and one that feelsdestructive, according to prisoners. This is borne out bydata on prison suicides.3

Comparing prisons is notoriously difficult — forexample, new buildings (more likely in the privatesector so far) may be much easier to operate in than oldbuildings. So design, function, population mix,geographical location, among other things, canconfound the results and are difficult to hold constant.As we have found in other studies, however, prisonsserving the same function differ significantly in whatthey deliver, how they are experienced, and whateffects they have. Public/private ownership is not themost important variable in determining prison quality,even though there are certain characteristic features ineach sector.

In this study, we compared two matched pairs ofpublic and private sector prisons. We subsequentlycollected data from three further private sector prisons.In the four prison comparison, the private prisonsshowed weaknesses in policing and control,organisation and consistency, and prisonerdevelopment (that is, opportunities to grow andchange). Managers in the private sector prisonsacknowledged that staff did not follow procedures aswell as public sector staff. We found the private prisonshad relatively inexperienced staff, and were sometimeshampered by their tighter staffing levels. Staff trainingin these prisons aimed to foster a respectful andpositive staff culture, and appeared to be successful in

Values and Practices in Public and PrivateSector Prisons:

A Summary of Key Findings from an EvaluationProfessor Alison Liebling is Director of the Prison Research Centre, Dr. Ben Crewe is Penology Director andDeputy Director of the Prison research Centre and Dr. Susie Hulley is a Research Associate, all are based at the

Institute of Criminology, University of Cambridge1.

1. With Clare McLean, also at the Institute of Criminology, Cambridge.2. For example, Liebling, A.; assisted by Arnold, H. (2004) Prisons and their Moral Performance: A Study of Values, Quality and Prison Life,

Oxford: Clarendon Press; Liebling, A., Hulley, S. and Crewe, B. (in press, 2011), ‘Conceptualising and Measuring the Quality of PrisonLife’, in Gadd, D., Karstedt, S. and Messner, S. (eds.) The Sage Handbook of Criminological Research Methods. London: Sage.

3. Liebling, A., Durie, L., Stiles, A. and Tait, S. (2005) ‘Revisiting prison suicide: the role of fairness and distress’, in A. Liebling and S.Maruna (eds) The Effects of Imprisonment, Cullompton: Willan, pp. 209-31.



doing so. However, the good intentions of staff werehindered somewhat by their lack of experience. Theways that staff used their authority had a significantimpact on prison performance and the prisonerexperience. In one of the private prisons, staff tended toover-use their authority to achieve order, to thedetriment of interpersonal relationships. In the otherprisons staff under-used their power and maintainedgood relationships but at the expense of safety andcontrol.4 In the public sector prisons, officers wereconfident and knowledgeable, delivering routines thatwere safer and more reliable than in the private sector.However, uniformed staff in the public sector weremore jaded and cynical than those in the private sector,and this limited the levels of careand humanity that prisonersexperienced.

When we evaluated threefurther private prisons, however,we found that prisoner quality oflife was higher in two of theseadditional prisons than in eitherthe poorer performing privateprisons or either of the publicsector prisons in the study. Inthese prisons, prisoners describedfeeling able to change anddevelop personally. Order,organisation and consistency aswell as respect and fairness werepart of what made a prison work.

The variation betweenprisons in quality was highestwithin the private sector, soprivate sector prisons run by thesame company were at thehighest and lowest end of a widequality spectrum. This tendencyfor private prisons to do either ‘very well’ or very badly’has been found before.5 Different contract conditions,and the quality of management have a significantimpact on quality. The quality of senior managers inboth sectors varies enormously. Most prison managersin the private sector are recruited from the public sector,and sometimes the sector makes good choices, picking‘high fliers’ who flourish outside the constraints of thepublic sector, or who feel undervalued within it. Thisincludes many women, who seem to hit a ceiling in thepublic sector. But they have also got some choices ofsenior managers wrong. There are fewer managementlayers in the private sector, and much lower levels ofexperience (and competence) among line managers.

Staff on the ground in the private sector receive lessguidance, mentoring, and support from experiencedseniors. It is an extraordinarily demanding managementtask, leading a new and privately operated prison intooperation. On the other hand, staff are more ‘willing’and malleable, once they know what it is they aresupposed to do.

Poor performance in the private sector tends to berelated to high staff turnover, low cost, inexperience,unstable management, location and speed of opening.It is difficult for management teams to get a new prisonup and running, so that it functions smoothly and staffunderstand and perform all aspects of their workprofessionally. High performance seems to be related to

the build up of experience amongstaff (in turn related to lowerturnover), strong, effective andcompetent management, in onecase, an expensive contract, gooddesign, and sometimes individualflair in long-staygovernor/directors.

The public sector, on theother hand, has (underestimated)strengths in the use of authority,security, safety, stability and‘professionalism’. The sectorbenefits from having a largecorporate structure behind it,which comes into its own intimes of crisis (including,occasionally, on behalf of theprivate sector) and sometimesserves as a ‘corporate memory’or resource. Its weaknesses are inaspects of its traditional andresistant culture, and in theamount of management time

and attention taken up by dealing with the prisonofficers’ union (the POA). Although there isconsiderable variation in quality within the publicsector, the worst prisons still function (like a slightlycranky machine). The best tend to be ‘good’, like a welloiled machine, but a bit ‘heavy’, creating someresistance and frustration for prisoners, enthusiasticstaff, and managers. The private sector has strengths inbeing more flexible, outward looking, developingpockets of innovation in areas like working in creativepartnership with other organisations, building a politeand respectful culture, and at its best, facilitatingpersonal development among prisoners, which canhelp them turn their lives around on release.

56 Issue 196

The variationbetween prisons inquality was highestwithin the privatesector, so privatesector prisons runby the same

company were atthe highest andlowest end of awide qualityspectrum.

4. See further, Crewe, B., Liebling, A. and Hulley. S. (2011) ‘Staff culture, the use of authority, and prisoner outcomes in public andprivate prisons’ Australia and New Zealand Journal of Criminology 44(1) 94–115.

5 . For example, National Audit Office (2003) The Operational Performance of PFI Prisons: Report by the Controller and Auditor General:HC700 Session 2002-3: 18 June 2003, London: HMSO.



One of the main lessons of this research confirmsour earlier finding in related studies that the way thatprison staff use their authority makes a huge differenceto the quality of a prison. In private sector prisons, staffcommitment and attitudes are often positive, but thisdoes not necessarily mean that officers use theirauthority well. In the less good private sector prisons,staff under-police the wings, and prisoners have toomuch power and too few boundaries. In public sectorprisons, some staff over-use their power and are a bitblasé about the authority they wield. This can makeprisoners feel disrespected and resentful, which makesit less likely that they will engage positively with staff orwith prison programmes.

Our research demonstrates that where staff-prisoner relationships have the right balance of controland respect almost all aspects ofthe prisoner experience areenhanced. Better quality prisonstend to be good in most areas,whereas poorer performingprisons tend to be poor in mostareas. Staff need to be able touse their authority professionally— with both confidence and care— in order to create decentenvironments. Both over-staffingand understaffing lead to(different) difficulties: over-staffing can encourage resistanceand staff complacency, whereasunder-staffing can lead to fearand distancing from prisoners.The problem is to find anoptimum level of resourcing,staffing levels, quality, trainingand experience (and turnover) level. The concept of the‘professional prison officer’ is helpful, suggesting amodel of prison officer work that is confident,authoritative, legitimate and pro-active. But there alsoneeds to be clarity of purpose, an appropriate (effective,and evidence-led) model of work with offenders, andcompetent and consistent leadership. This is a complexand demanding business, requiring highly skilled staffand outstanding leadership.

Despite political assumptions that the privatesector is inherently superior at service delivery, privatesector prisons are not necessarily better or worse thanpublic sector prisons. When they get it right, they canprovide decent and positive environments. But whenthey get it wrong, which seems to be more likely (butnot inevitable) if they are run cheaply, they can bechaotic and dangerous places, which are no good foreither the staff who work in them or the prisonerswho live in and will be released from them. Whenthings go wrong in prisons, they go wrong in very

significant ways: riots, escapes, murders, suicides, andso on.

There are therefore real risks in privatising prisons‘on the cheap’ and in re-conceiving public sectorprisons on the cheapest private sector model. There areno guarantees that private sector prisons will becheaper or better than public sector prisons. The costdifferential between the sectors has reducedconsiderably, especially in those prisons that go throughcompetitive processes. It is not always the case that thecheapest bid wins or, now, that the cheapest bid comesfrom the private sector. There is a danger that bidderslose sight of the realities of running a complexorganisation in their eagerness to win the contract — asort of ‘race to the bottom’. This has been evidenced inboth the public and the private sectors. At least two

poorly performing private sectorprisons in the UK have beenreturned to the public sector.

We would recommendtrying to combine the strengthsof both sectors, above the lowestpossible cost threshold, ratherthan assuming that the privatesector is simply better or morecost effective, in this key area ofpublic services. This would beachievable if we reduced thenumber of prisoners, by cuttingthe extraordinarily long andindeterminate sentencesprisoners now receive, anddiverted short term prisoners intoconstructive alternatives. Some ofthe difficulties prisons face arerelated to how they are used, so

not all problems of the prison can be resolved bydifferent management techniques or changes inownership.

There is a need for more learning from each sector,and more independent and meaningful evaluations,linking internal organisation and quality of life tooutcomes. What we don’t know, internationally, iswhat proportion of prisons within each sector are verygood and very poor respectively, and why this is. Theseare the sorts of questions that need answers. The mainaim of prison privatisation is to improve public sectorservice performance or delivery and effectiveness viacompetition and innovation, by injecting new energyand vision, and by experimenting with newmanagement and staffing arrangements: the cross-fertilisation argument. There are problems ofinefficiency, ineffectiveness, and poor or traditionalculture in the public sector, but there are also somestrengths, which are in danger of being lost. Staff andprisoners still speak a moral language of making a

Issue 196 57

Our researchdemonstrates thatwhere staff-prisonerrelationships havethe right balance ofcontrol and respectalmost all aspects of

the prisonerexperience areenhanced.



difference but there is a general shift in the PrisonService towards a security-and-efficiency drivenmanagement style that risks stifling professionalenthusiasm by its process and performance-orientedculture.

Some believe that private sector competition willimprove the quality of prisons, prisoners’ welfare, andoutcomes, others believe it poses greater risks. We havefound that both of these possibilities are real, and thatthe outcomes depend on several factors, such as: thequality of the contract, the quality of management,staffing stability (which is linked to pay and conditions,but also to management) and the effectiveness ofmonitoring processes. The balance of risks may varywith changing values and interests — so in a costcutting and/or punitive era, the risks of violations maybe higher.

Many people believe that matters of punishmentand deprivation of liberty are and should be inherentlypublic, and should be a core responsibility of the State,acting on behalf of the community. The Supreme Courtof Israel recently decided to prohibit the privateoperation and management of prisons on the groundsthat it was constitutionally unlawful and permitted apotential violation of human rights.6 It contravened theBasic Law on Human Dignity and Liberty. Limits to thisprinciple can only be justified if made in order to furtheran essential public interest. According to the ruling,violations of a prisoner’s constitutional right to personalliberty are more likely when the entity responsible forhis imprisonment is a private corporation motivated byeconomic considerations of profit and loss, than when

the entity responsible for his or her imprisonment is agovernment authority not motivated by thoseconsiderations. In other words, the profit motive mayincrease the risk of human rights violations. This is anargument based on principle, but is not yet based onempirical fact. Israel is the first country to make thislegal decision. Other jurisdictions have reversed theirprivatisation decisions on the grounds that it does notprovide the hoped for benefits or is risky (Canada,Scotland, and Victoria in Australia, for example).

Breaches of basic rights and internationalstandards are not uncommon in public prison systemsas currently operated. The current state of public sectorprovision and management (from basic conditions,overcrowding and the quality of health care to theavailability of what sort of rehabilitative, educationaland vocational programs) may be relevant to the moralreckoning process.

The key question is what is the best way to realizethe public interest in having a proper, decent, effectiveand efficient prison system? This is a very difficultquestion to answer. Is the word ‘effective’ relevant, andis its meaning clear, when we are talking aboutinstitutions that punish? Once we know what we meanby ‘quality’, we need to know more about whatmechanisms, including management, staffing andaccountability/regulation, best secure such conditions.

The privatisation issue raises profound questionsabout the role of the State in punishment, thedifference between privatisation’s effects on quality andquantity, and the role, identity and moral status of theprison officer.

6. See Harding, R (forthcoming) ‘State monopoly of ‘the limits of permitted violation of human rights’: The decision of the Supreme Courtof Israel prohibiting the private operation and management of prisons, Punishment and Society.

More detailed results from this study can be found on the ESRC website athttp://www.esrc.ac.uk/my-esrc/grants/RES-062-23-0212/read/reports.


Prison Service JournalIssue 196 59



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Purpose and editorial arrangements

The Prison Service Journal is a peer reviewed journal published by HM Prison Service of England and Wales.

Its purpose is to promote discussion on issues related to the work of the Prison Service, the wider criminal justice

system and associated fields. It aims to present reliable information and a range of views about these issues.

The editor is responsible for the style and content of each edition, and for managing production and the

Journal’s budget. The editor is supported by an editorial board — a body of volunteers all of whom have worked

for the Prison Service in various capacities. The editorial board considers all articles submitted and decides the out-

line and composition of each edition, although the editor retains an over-riding discretion in deciding which arti-

cles are published and their precise length and language.

From May 2005 selected articles from each edition are available in the Resource Centre of the HMPrison Service website. This is available at www.hmprisonservice.gov.uk

Circulation of editions and submission of articles

Six editions of the Journal, printed at HMP Leyhill, are published each year with a circulation of approximately

6,500 per edition. The editor welcomes articles which should be up to c.4,000 words and submitted by email to

[email protected] or as hard copy and on disk to Prison Service Journal, c/o Print Shop Manager, HMP

Leyhill, Wotton-under-Edge, Gloucestershire, GL12 8HL. All other correspondence may also be sent to the Editor

at this address or to [email protected].

Footnotes are preferred to endnotes, which must be kept to a minimum. All articles are subject to peer

review and may be altered in accordance with house style. No payments are made for articles.

Subscriptions

The Journal is distributed to every Prison Service establishment in England and Wales. Individual members of

staff need not subscribe and can obtain free copies from their establishment. Subscriptions are invited from other

individuals and bodies outside the Prison Service at the following rates, which include postage:

United Kingdom

single copy £5.00



Overseas

single copy £7.00



Orders for subscriptions (and back copies which are charged at the single copy rate) should be sent with a

cheque made payable to ‘HM Prison Service’ to Prison Service Journal, c/o Print Shop Manager, HMP Leyhill,

Wotton-under-Edge, Gloucestershire, GL12 8BT.

Margaret AdamsDr Rachel BellHMYOI FelthamMaggie Bolger

Prison Service College, Newbold RevelAlan ConstableHMP WinchesterDr Ben Crewe

University of CambridgePaul CrosseyHMYOI Portland

Dr Michael FiddlerUniversity of Greenwich

Steve HallSERCO

Dr Karen HarrisonUniversity of Hull

Professor Yvonne JewkesUniversity of LeicesterDr Helen JohnstonUniversity of HullMartin Kettle

HM Inspectorate of PrisonsMonica Lloyd

Rehabilitation Services Group NOMSAlan Longwell

Criminal Justice Division, Northern Ireland Prison Service

William PaynePublic Sector Bids UnitDr Basia Spalek

University of BirminghamChristopher Stacey

UnlockRay Taylor

HMP PentonvilleDr Azrini Wahidin

Queens University, BelfastMike Wheatley

Directorate of High SecurityRay Hazzard and Steve Williams

HMP Leyhill

Editorial BoardJamie Bennett (Editor)

IRC Morton Hall

Contents

Jamie Bennett is Centre Manager atIRC Morton Hall.

Ray Taylor is a prison officer at HMPPentonville in London.

Martin Kettle is a senioroperational manager currentlyseconded to HM Inspectorate ofPrisons.

Maggie Bolger is based in TrainingServices.

Editorial Comment

Interview: Prison GovernorJamie Bennett

Interview: Senior Officer in Training ServicesMaggie Bolger

2

3

7

10

13

16

19 Interview: Prisoner in a local prisonDr. Rachel Bell

Dr. Rachel Bell is a senior officer atHMYOI Feltham.

Interview: Prison Officer in a High Security PrisonMartin Kettle

Interview: Instructional OfficerMartin Kettle

Interview: Prisoner in a local prisonRay Taylor

22Monica Lloyd is based inRehabilitation Services Group, NOMS .

Interview: Prisoner in a female closed prisonMonica Lloyd

24Margaret Adams was a prisonmanager.

Interview: Life sentence prisonerMargaret Adams

28 Interview: Prisoner in open conditionsMonica Lloyd

31Christopher Stacey is Head ofProjects and Services at UNLOCK, theNational Association of ReformedOffenders.

Interview: Mother of a serving prisonerChristopher Stacey

X 102 PSJ 196 July 2011 Cover:Prison Service Journal 15/6/11 08:50 Page 2

This edition includes:

Interviews with prisoners, prison staff, prisoners’family members and workers from voluntary

and charitable sector organisations.


OURNALJP R I S O N S E R V I C E

OURNALJJuly 2011 No 196

Voices from the front line


OURNALJJanuary 2011 No 193

Where does the prisonsystem go from here?

Special Edition

X 102 PSJ 196 July 2011 Cover:Prison Service Journal 15/6/11 08:49 Page 1

PSJ_July_2011_No._196.pdf

Documents

Transcript of PSJ_July_2011_No._196.pdf