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Nook Forum _ The Ionic Virtual Laboratory - Chemistry _ dmt experiment

Posted by: dg420 Apr 10 05, 04:14 PM GMT

well in the spirit of making things simple...

started with 140 grams mhrb. crumbled and ground in coffee grinder. sifted out chuncks and fibers and re ground. added all to 1 gal glass jug. added 1/2 gal. distilled water(boiling) added 5 tablespoons 30% muriatic acid(hcl) shook like crazy and let sit in double boiler, shaking every few minutes for 1/2 hr. made some basic solution, 5 table spoons red devil lye for 2 1/2 cups water. added 3/4 cup of base, then 4 cups hot naptha, shook, then another 3/4 cup base to make all rb black. shook. it was very hot and the naptha would not separate. so i cooled it off for an hour on a clod water bath. separated 90% or so, so i siphoned offf the clear solavent and put into glass baking bowl floating in boiling water with a fan blowing to speed it up. when volume was reduced by 1/2 or so it was allowed to cool and placed into a large caserole dish to finish evap. covered dish, placed in freezer for 1/2hr. then back outside to evap overnight.( no fan or heat.) next morning... huge freaking crystals growing in the naptha... some up to 1/2inch and very clear with white bases. will have to see if they get bigger as naptha evaps down or if it forms others,(still lots of white cloudyness floating around crystals in the naptha.)

the only changes i made were. no multiple acidic washes or rb. no filtering of anything at all. and no fan for final evap...if i had rushed the evapping i could have had good product in a couple of hours... but waiting for slow cool evap makes such pretty crystals. freaking beautiful, no de-fatting, filtering, recrystalization of any kind....

i took some pics but cant find the wire to connect my camera to the computer... i'll get a new one and post some shots soon.peacedg

Posted by: Dr. Bombay Apr 10 05, 04:26 PM GMT

great, it makes plenty of sense, as with dry cactus extraction, that if the particulates dont make it into the nonpolar phase, then why filter.

pictures

Posted by: droop23 Apr 10 05, 06:18 PM GMT

Also hoping for pix and would love to hear final yield.......That sounds so much easier and faster than the Yoda tek SOIOMHHO used.....

Also, if you, or anyone else here who's recently dreamed of a high-yielding Dimitri extract felt like PMing me your MHRB source, I would be most appreciative....

SOIOMMHO got last batch directly from Ott's company, but I don't think that's in biz anymore....Iamshaman would have been next bet but they've discontinued too....lots of other vendors on the web but who has the goods????

Posted by: dg420 Apr 11 05, 04:29 AM GMT


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update,evap is very slow with out fan but really allows crystals to grow. (the fridge might be great but i have not tried it). they are forming like 3d round astricks. long blades like eminating from center and white to clear. some clusters are 1/2"-across and noticably tall too. they are still growing... for next pull added another 130g very fine powder into two cups boiling water with 4 tblsps hcl, put in small jar and shook for 5 min.added acidic rb paste to the gallon jug. a bunch more base, and naptha followed. solution very basic. extreme shaking caused little emulsion. settled 90% in 10 min. decanted naptha, evapped in double boiler to 1/3 original volume. cooled and set in cool area to evap. crystals started forming soon. some are already in 1/2 clusters of clear blade like crystals attatched to dish under the naptha!!!yeild from the first pulls looks like 1-2 g or more, but who knows????my crappy camera wont do these justice, i'll have a buddy come over with a better set up before i scrape.i was happy doing a fast evap but now i know patience is worth it... evap some, but leave 1/2 to 1/4 the original volume of naptha. cool it down and leave it alone in a cool space. maybe a cool dry box or glove box would be a good idea when 99% dry.really, really ez method thanks to everyone on this site for the isnpiration!

also,of course this is all just theory, or dreams....

dg

Posted by: ion Apr 12 05, 12:37 AM GMT

You need to post your root bark source and brand of naphtha, man. These results you're getting arerediculously good where others with the same methods have failed... so I think it's a function of your materials. Please, do tell!


sunny side vm&p naptha mhrb fro entheobotanibalsupply(sp?) 125 per 1 kg plus 3 for fast shipping, came in 4 days... guys name is racecant get pics to load, any suggestions? says file too big to fit. already tried compressing into zip file. i'm a computer knub....dg

Posted by: Maverick Apr 13 05, 05:27 PM GMT

I resized some of dg420's pics, here they are:

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thanks mav...

dg

Posted by: free spirit Apr 13 05, 07:09 PM GMT

beautiful end product there. VERY nice...


i hope others try this method. like to get feedback on others' projects....really works well and saves time and effort. i'd urge anyone to try it with small portions at first. it worked well for me first try. wonder if it'd work with other botanicals like diplopis(sp?) maybe green matter needs defatting and rudiculous filtering?, but i know mhrb does not. no fats or fiber seem to get into final product. some of the crystals get tiny yellow spots(still clear) near the base, but i can live with that. most crystals are totally white/clear.note, the purest clear crystals still taste like shit

dg

Posted by: Applejacks Apr 13 05, 08:14 PM GMT

Oh, shit. That's bangin'! Very nice, gonna have to try this one day!!


let me know if any portion of this extraction needs more explaination. glad to give more detail if needed.peace, dg

Posted by: free spirit Apr 13 05, 08:35 PM GMT

what would be your take on trying this tek on another kinda plant? such as leaves?

Posted by: ion Apr 13 05, 11:07 PM GMT

DAAAAMN!!! Those are some gorgeous little arrangements you have there!

I'd have to say that those are most certainly seeded with lye (converted to baking soda), given the


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crystal shape and pattern, along with the heat used in the process... but the resulting material is definitely smokeable and easily handled.

You should take a few of those and recrystallize. The crystal will then be almost totally free of ionic salts.I'd be interested to see how the shape and arrangement changes with the recrystallized material.

Excellent work, bro!


I can't seem to find the mhrb supplier you speak of... what is the website? PM me if you prefer.


"I'd have to say that those are most certainly seeded with lye (converted to baking soda), given the crystal shape and pattern, along with the heat used in the process... but the resulting material is definitely smokeable and easily handled"ion,is there a way to see if any baking soda is present? i thought that lye was not soluable in np solovents.... if so then my mesc would also be contamed and be yellow with flame test? dmt flame yellow if soda present?do you think the heat used causes lye to be soluable in the np? it did get pretty hot, but not above 180*f i think... the heat seems to pull the goodies faster and with fewer passes.i may try to recrystalize some and see how it looks. the product is potent enuf now its hard to imagine contaminations, but i would like to find out...dg

free spirit, no freakin' idea how it works with green leaves for example. those with exp using foliage for extractions should pipe in and tell us is defatting and filtering are totally needed... i heard they were for mhrb, and it just isn't. my product may not be perfect, but its leages better than any commercial stuff ive seen going for $2-400, so i just cant see wasting all the hours needed to do multipe acidic washes and all that filtering. not to mention waiting for defatting np to settle ect....dg


You could do a flame test, but I suspect that the amount is so small that A. the flame color would be tinyand brief, and B. the DMT smoke would obscure that flash of color. You can try it with a small amount ifyou want to, though. That'd be great.

Well, the term "insoluble" is relative. You see, everything is soluble to some greater or lesser degree ineverything else. There are different rules for the term, depending on what book you are reading...

Generally, when someone says that NaOH is "insoluble" in naphtha, it means that less than 1 gram ofNaOH is soluble in 1 Liter of naptha.

If you were talking to an analytical chemist, he'd probably define "insoluble" at a much lower ratio... like less than 1mg per Liter of solvent.

However, under both of these conditions it is still possible that a small amount of NaOH dissolves into the naptha. This amount will increase along a curve with temperature, too.

Say you are using 500ml of naphtha. Now say that you are working at room temp, where only .1mg ofNaOH dissolves into 500ml of naptha... that still means you have .1mg of NaOH in your solvent.

Some chemical theory:This NaOH is in the solvent... so if you start evaporating the solvent, the NaOH begins to recrystallize out of the naptha (just as any salt would). At the same time, the DMT is also coalescing, but it is not asgood at forming crystals as NaOH is... but DMT can hang out with the tiny NaOH crystals and molecules (which are more strongly attracted to each other).


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Basically, the DMT rides around the NaOH molecules as they combine to form their own crystals, but since DMT is all over the place, the NaOH has a hard time actually sticking together. The DMT moleculeshave now been brought together in somewhat of an organized fashion, though, so they can now form DMT crystals more easily. Since the attraction direction was originally dictated by the NaOH, themacroscopic crystals have a lot of the crystal character (shape and arrangement) of NaOH....end theory.

If you are working at a higher temperature, you will have more than .1mg of NaOH in the solvent, thereby increasing the number of NaOH molecules present that can recrystallize out and "seed" your DMT. This also increases the NaOH-like character of the crystals.

Now, all that being said, it is most likely sodium bicarbonate that is doing the "seeding"... not NaOH.Evaporating the solvent in open air exposes the lye to carbon dioxide and water vapor, which reacts with the lye to form baking soda. However, these crystals are more pointy than cubic, which leads me tobelieve that perhaps the non-polar nature of the solvent actually excluded a lot of water from the system, thereby stunting much of the reaction and leaving a great deal of lye.

Do not be alarmed, however, since the heat involved in smoking DMT is not high enough to vaporize NaOH (or even baking soda for that matter). In fact, this level of heat will most likely convert any lye towater vapor and solid sodium oxide (also not vaporizeable), and any baking soda to carbon dioxide and sodium oxide.

And if you're still worried about it, understand just how tiny these quantities are... then realize how much carbon dioxide and water vapor is present in your lungs. It's not going to hurt anything, and it probablywon't even be noticeable at all.

Whew!

Been typing all day and now I just can't shut up!!


no please dont shut up! your posts are a good study too for me...

i'm not really woried about the tiny bit of lye that may be in the product. it must be ever so tiny, this stuff is the best quality i've ever seen. loads better than commercial produnt which is orange/red.(i woder what those impurities are?..)forgive my ignorance, but how should i do a flame test?ion,how do you think i should recrystalize? i'd like your input before i try. do you think a more cubic structurewould occur?

QUOTE(ion @ Apr 14 05, 08:47 PM GMT)

You could do a flame test, but I suspect that the amount is so small that A. the flame color would be tinyand brief, and B. the DMT smoke would obscure that flash of color. You can try it with a small amount ifyou want to, though. That'd be great.

Well, the term "insoluble" is relative. You see, everything is soluble to some greater or lesser degree ineverything else. There are different rules for the term, depending on what book you are reading...

Generally, when someone says that NaOH is "insoluble" in naphtha, it means that less than 1 gram ofNaOH is soluble in 1 Liter of naptha.

If you were talking to an analytical chemist, he'd probably define "insoluble" at a much lower ratio... like less than 1mg per Liter of solvent.

However, under both of these conditions it is still possible that a small amount of NaOH dissolves into thenaptha. This amount will increase along a curve with temperature, too.


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Say you are using 500ml of naphtha. Now say that you are working at room temp, where only .1mg ofNaOH dissolves into 500ml of naptha... that still means you have .1mg of NaOH in your solvent.

Some chemical theory:This NaOH is in the solvent... so if you start evaporating the solvent, the NaOH begins to recrystallize out of the naptha (just as any salt would). At the same time, the DMT is also coalescing, but it is not as goodat forming crystals as NaOH is... but DMT can hang out with the tiny NaOH crystals and molecules (which are more strongly attracted to each other).Basically, the DMT rides around the NaOH molecules as they combine to form their own crystals, but since DMT is all over the place, the NaOH has a hard time actually sticking together. The DMT molecules havenow been brought together in somewhat of an organized fashion, though, so they can now form DMT crystals more easily. Since the attraction direction was originally dictated by the NaOH, the macroscopiccrystals have a lot of the crystal character (shape and arrangement) of NaOH....end theory.

If you are working at a higher temperature, you will have more than .1mg of NaOH in the solvent, thereby increasing the number of NaOH molecules present that can recrystallize out and "seed" yourDMT. This also increases the NaOH-like character of the crystals.

Now, all that being said, it is most likely sodium bicarbonate that is doing the "seeding"... not NaOH. Evaporating the solvent in open air exposes the lye to carbon dioxide and water vapor, which reacts with the lye to form baking soda. However, these crystals are more pointy than cubic, which leads me tobelieve that perhaps the non-polar nature of the solvent actually excluded a lot of water from the system, thereby stunting much of the reaction and leaving a great deal of lye.

Do not be alarmed, however, since the heat involved in smoking DMT is not high enough to vaporize NaOH (or even baking soda for that matter). In fact, this level of heat will most likely convert any lye towater vapor and solid sodium oxide (also not vaporizeable), and any baking soda to carbon dioxide and sodium oxide.

And if you're still worried about it, understand just how tiny these quantities are... then realize how much carbon dioxide and water vapor is present in your lungs. It's not going to hurt anything, and it probablywon't even be noticeable at all.

Whew!

Been typing all day and now I just can't shut up!!

Posted by: Dr. Bombay Apr 14 05, 09:51 PM GMT

since you have the prettiest crystals we have ever seen, except for perhaps safroles, I think you should just do the brain test. recrystallizing beautiful crystals might be a fun chemistry experiment, but as far assignificantly cleaning those crystals up, its not likely going to, and you will only lose some of your D.

great work.

Posted by: tregar Apr 15 05, 01:31 AM GMT

nice job!



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Doc is correct... but you seem like the kind of person that wants to learn more, so I offer you a simple method:

1. Place one or two of those puffy arrangements (last photo) into a test-tube. Add just enough of yournaphtha to the tube to cover the puffs. Tap it around a bit to make sure that not all of the puffsdissolve, but try not to get the naphtha all over the inside of the tube.

2. Make a hot water bath and set your upright, uncapped tube into it... make sure it won't fall over.Heat the tube until all solid dissolves... if it doesn't, add drops of naphtha (waiting a few minutes between drops) until all solid dissolves. If the naphtha solution is boiling, lower the heat... you want itjust under the boiling point of the solution.

3. Once all solid is dissolved, drop in a tiny transparent crystal from your dish (preferably one that ishexagonal in cross-section... I think I saw one in the 3rd or 4th photo), and immediately remove the water bath from the heat source, but leave the tube in the bath while it cools.

4. Add salt to the water bath and stir gently with the tube to dissolve the salt... leftover solid salt is goodin this case, because you want a saturated solution. This just keeps the water from freezing so hard instep 6... you could add ethanol or antifreeze instead, but those smell funny and would be bad for your tube stuff if they got in there.

5. Once it has cooled to room temp, put it in the fridge (bath and all).

6. Once at fridge temp, move it all to the freezer.

This process provides slow, even, somewhat buffered cooling... the best for large crystal formation. Ifthe seed is good, it is even possible to get a single large crystal with only minimal "crust" production.

Another test you might like to do instead (or prior to the above) that would effectively remove the base is this:

Just dissolve some puffs into room-temp naphtha, and wash the naphtha with 2 equal volumes of distilled water... tossing out the water. Then simply evaporate the naptha in the same manner you didfor the extraction and see if you get similar crystals (puffs). I'll bet you won't.


I have to say, once again... those really are some of the prettiest home-extracted DMT crystals I have ever seen, man. Serious friggin kudos, bro!


To answer your other questions...

Flame test: Use calm, blue propane flame. Flame the end of a stretched-out paper clip. Let it cool andscoop up a little of a crystal puff onto it. Then just stick it in the hot part of the flame (the area justbelow the tip of the flame where the color lightens). Don't blink.

Crystal shape: As you may have guessed from the seed mentioned above, the crystal shape of pureDMT freebase is a hexagonal prism... just like quartz but with a flat top (there is no point at the apex of the hexagonal column).

You can see in some of your photos how some of the "needles" appear to be made up of tiny plates, stuck edge to edge... this is the DMT's influence over the general shape and arrangement of NaOH crystals.

Posted by: dg420 Apr 15 05, 04:07 AM GMT


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so the brain tests have all gone great , but i am interested in the purest product possible. and one

of the densest trays turned 1/3 yellow. i may have fast evapped it too much before slow cooling and fanless evap. seems to form nicer clusters when less fast evap is done, i'm just to impatient to wait a week to see my results.i think this 1/3 yellow tray has 1.5grams at least, .5 is totally yellow, but still crystalized nicely. this might be used to recrystalize. ion, would some type of wash benifit this stained d? how to wash/clean? i guess i could just gift the yellow stuff out and keep the best for my close buds and i. there are numerous singlr hex shaped crystals in the dishes but they wern't as impressive as the big clusters, so they wern't photo'd when my bud came over... i'll use one of those to seed.this may be the best i've seen but i still will try as time allows, to many irons in the fire

dg

Posted by: zim Apr 15 05, 11:51 AM GMT

I do have a question though what is it with all this DMT stuff smells like plastic, to me it smells nothing like plastic but rather a freebase tryptamine compound, very simular to AMT and 4-ho-det I just dont get it.


You could do the recrystallization on the yellow stuff to help clean it, yes.

The hexagonal crystals are the most pure. They are also the most rare, of course, and generally theyare either going to be mixed in with the other clusters where you can't see them or they are going to be singular and small.

You are very lucky to have obtained any of the latter, because those are perfect for seeding recrystallizations.

Those little hexagons hold more academic value than user value. You've said yourself that the otherstuff is plenty pure and potent. So... Do not mix the hexagons in with the other crystal... save themseparately for later experiments.

That smell is equated with plastic in the minds of people who have not smelled many other tryptamines, zim. It's just a matter of experience. Hell, to me the stuff kinda smells like untoasted corn tortillas.

Posted by: tomekripz May 12 05, 05:43 PM GMT

hi, do u guys think i could do the same extraction(dg420) with phalaris arundinacea ??peace

Posted by: lusitania May 13 05, 05:31 AM GMT

couldn't he just wash the yellow (impurities?) away from the crystals by washing them with acetone?

Posted by: ion May 13 05, 05:58 AM GMT

You could try it, tome.

No, lusitania... these are crystals of freebase, and freebase would dissolve in acetone.

Posted by: mophead_ May 14 05, 05:37 PM GMT

WOW!!!! Don't know how i missed this thread...... Great work dg.


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Posted by: jedilkeme May 14 05, 07:19 PM GMT

ive heard the smell to be like opium-artificial grape to me it smells like a sweet chem of some sort....

Posted by: ion May 15 05, 11:48 PM GMT

Interesting, man... I wouldn't say I have ever percieved them as such!

I love our brains... they're rediculous, aren't they? We all want acceptance, yet our differences ofperception often impede it... and both are artifice of the brain.

Posted by: dg420 May 16 05, 06:09 PM GMT

so great to see these boards again!! went out of town for a few days and am so happy to have this resource up again!!

never tried this tek on anything but mhrb. many teks using other botanicals(and mhrb) recomend multiple defatting steps, this may be needed with phalaris or others, but not in my experience with mimosa hostilis.

love to hear your results if you try this tek on other botanicals...pm me if you'd like..

i basically used foafs cacti tek and modified it to mhrb. seems that it works, just need to use your head and experiment with small amounts until your method is good.

you see my results, i'm happy first try with this new tek

peace all,

dg

Posted by: tomekripz May 16 05, 06:34 PM GMT

how much time do i have to double-boil my stuff ????thanks peace


you dont really need to use heat at all. just seems to speed things up, and maybe pull goodies quiker than cold process.... i did several other teks without heat and they worked ok, just took forever

a double boiler like i'm talking about is just a big pot on a hot plate, with the vessel floating in it.dg

Posted by: lusitania May 16 05, 10:08 PM GMT

so can you gas this freebase solution to salt the dmt out? or does this not work....? just wondering,thx

Posted by: ion May 17 05, 12:23 AM GMT

DMT*HCl is a very finicky material... I don't think it would work unless the stuff was already very pure.


the freebase is ready to smoke .... i know of no reason to convert it to hcl unless you want to shoot


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up...dg

Posted by: Coja May 18 05, 12:42 AM GMT

Even the freebase will rapidly transform to a hcl for a pharmahuasca once ingested and mingled with the very low pH in your body.

Posted by: Not-so New Guy May 26 05, 04:01 AM GMT

QUOTE

Even the freebase will rapidly transform to a hcl for a pharmahuasca once ingested and mingled with the very low pH in your body.

Are you saying you can administer freebase IV and it'll work?

Posted by: zim May 26 05, 04:20 AM GMT

Actualy dosent the pH of a drug have an effect on if it is able to be absorbed properly by the body. So the frebase dmt would have less of a chance from working through IV, because it would be more alkaline. I could be wrong though. As for eating it the HCL in the stomach would change the DMT into a salt.


i'm pretty sure that freebase can't be used iv. dg

Posted by: Shmoppy May 26 05, 04:55 PM GMT

Freebase would probably work IV, but good luck getting it into your veins as it won't dissolve in water, and IV'ing a solvent is a very bad idea

Posted by: ion May 26 05, 07:45 PM GMT

WTF is so bad about eating or smoking stuff? Sheesh!!

Posted by: Maverick May 26 05, 07:48 PM GMT

needles are bad... mmkay?

Posted by: Not-so New Guy May 26 05, 09:41 PM GMT

Actually it could probably be broken down with some lemon juice and administered. I've seen this donewith other things.

QUOTE



13 of 34 1/28/06 10:01 PM

How do doctors administer medicine in the hospital?

QUOTE

WTF is so bad about eating or smoking stuff? Sheesh!!

A common smoked amount is 20 to 40mg. A common IV administration is about .3mg/kg body weight. It's amuch better bang for your buck. No if's and's or but's. And from my research there dosen't seem to be muchof a threat of having a 'bad trip'. In one mans tolerance test he administered 4 injections of .4mg/kg at 5minute intervals to several test subjects. None of them refused a dose after given the first. I feel safe.

I did find once case where a woman was given .4mg/kg and had to stop on the 4th dose because of anxiety, but felt completely normal after 1 hour.

http://www.maps.org/news-letters/

Posted by: Sunchild May 29 05, 06:30 AM GMT

QUOTE(Maverick @ May 26 05, 07:48 PM UTC)


Seriously.

QUOTE

How do doctors administer medicine in the hospital?

Do doctors give shots when a pill will work just fine?Not in my own experience at least.

No offense but tripping and needles are not the best of companions imo.

I have a question as well. Does the freezer period you mentioned (dg420) make a large difference? Is it akin to ramping? Does this method utilize somewhat unintentional forms of seeding, ramping and slow cool evap? If so might that be the major factor behind the spectacular results?

I bet that a phalaris version would grab a lot of phyll, not to mention that MHRB is much *cleaner* chemically speaking that phalaris.


I have a question as well. Does the freezer period you mentioned (dg420) make a large difference? Is it akin to ramping? Does this method utilize somewhat unintentional forms of seeding, ramping and slow cool evap? If so might that be the major factor behind the spectacular results?

it sure seems to help. i leave it in freezer until white swilrs are visible in naptha. usually crystals seed,


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and start to form in 1/2- 1hr. then outside for 1-2 days of slow evap.

you could get product in hours from start to finish, but rapid evapping wont grow nice crystals. patients and experimentation.......

if any one tries this, please pm me results, or q's

dg

Posted by: zim May 31 05, 02:46 PM GMT

Hmmm I think his research stuff comes from DMT the spirate molecule, I just want to know how is he gona measure 4mg of DMT. I have difficulty enough just measuring 30mg without the slighest crystal putting the dosage off.

As for the needle thing I would have no problem with it my self, but i would have to make sure the substance i was experimenting with was 100% clean, and someone else would have to be their to ensure things where ok. because i would just hate to be found in some room dead with a needle in my arm.

Posted by: Sunchild Jun 02 05, 11:23 PM GMT

Wow, a foaf did this for their first A/B, and they got pretty translucent orange crystals!! Not as nice as the ones in the pictures mind you, but awesome none the less!!!

They used 90g MHRB, this was not ground but cut with pruning shears into chunky sections. No filtration was ever used. Vinegar and citric acid as the acid sources (and the process before attempting the B side of the A/B was a bit insane to say the least), no defatting was used. The volume involved when the 2.5 cups (of distilled H20 with 5 tablespoons lye) was added was between 1/3 and 1/4 gallon. The second pull/evap got almost nothing the first was about a gram of material. No fan for evap was used, though a seedling heating mat was used at the start of evaporation.

Foaf says that is it stunning how effective this was.No defatting, no filtration, no pH testing, no fan, no problems.

Posted by: dg420 Jun 03 05, 01:58 AM GMT

Archaea,sweeeeet glad it worked out. not to suprised that most of the goodies were in the first pull.

be sure your foaf uses his head re:lye additions. read carefully where i talk about color shifts. no need to over do it. 5 tablespoons for 90g is probably way to much, and may have influenced the quik transfer of spice into naptha. but what the hell, the spice does not seem to be affected by high ph as i've read so many times before. i know dmt is not as stable as mesc, but it doesn't need to sit in basic solution for very long. my pulls settled very fast.did your foaf have any emulsion issues? i bet it settled out quik with that much base...

sounds like potent mhrb, 1g d for 90g mhrb is twice my yeild lucky you.grind the shit next time. a coffee grinder works but slowly.

what issues did you have with the acidification? no clues about vinegar or citric, i recomend hcl. just boil water, add acid. then add the acid water to your vessel. simple. no idea what ph is really best, but i'm sure what i used was ph 1. which is probably too low. but its a quik process, and does not hurt.


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Posted by: Not-so New Guy Jun 03 05, 02:34 AM GMT

When adding acid it's been said that you should add slowly enough and dilute enough not to cause PH spikes and destroy the salt.

Posted by: Sunchild Jun 03 05, 02:50 AM GMT

Details details...This was most of PM concerning this method, it is here so people can see that the results were lucky forsure. Please don't hate my foaf for this.

Anyway check it out, my foaf has tried it 5 times, lightly mind you. Now I assume that its not 100% pure, but it is translucent orange crystal and a little goes a long way.

After 5 tries with it, he weighed the stuff in his little jar... 1.1 grams, so he weighed it again, 1.2, so again... 1.1, then again 1.2, he figures its near 1.15 or so. This after having some used up, and the second evap has at least .2 grams.

The only problem is that the bark came in a trade. In this experiment he used only dark purple material, just really good looking stuff.

It sounds too good to be true eh? The foaf thinks so too, but the results speak for themselves. The experiment was messed up.

At first he had not read your post, and he used a mix of 70% isopropyl and vinegar 1:1 to soak the stuff, and then he evaped this into a nasty purple resin and got mad. (someone told him that they wouldn't/couldn't help because the use of the vinegar/iso mix was "wrong") So then he added distilled water with citric acid to reconstitute it and put it in a gallon glass jar with the solid stuff(the bark) from the soaking jar and added some xylene for defatting. Well then an emulsion formed(after shaking), but that cleared after some gentle heat and agitation. The foaf had no lye and so the material sat for a few days like that.

He was gonna get some lye, siphon the xylene off, and do the base thing but he is thinking that filtration is a major issue... So anyway he goes to the store and cannot find pH testing strips but gets the lye anyway and gets info on the pH testing strips which he can get but its just a hassle. So then he goes home and decides to read all he can on the subject, the archives don't help much but then he sees your post and the pictures. Copies it, pastes it prints it, just the single paragraph for the first post.

He takes the lid off the jar and pours in 2.5 cups of distilled water with 5 tablespoons lye dissolved in it, it is very warm but your post said this was not a bad thing. He then shakes the shit out of it and after itsettles he notices that the xylene becomes cloudy and yellowish. He shakes it again and the next day he puts the xylene into a pyrex dish. It evaps most of the way, he puts it in the freezer, thus ruining every bit of food in there with the xylene, foaf has a very acute sense of taste and smell and it seems the xylene tainted all the vegetables in the bags in the freezer. Anyway he uses a combination of slightbottom heat in a well vented area and notices that the xylene smell is gone but there is this oily looking stuff with some opalescent swirls. He does the freezer thing again and then takes it out and lets it sit overnight , in the morning crystals are forming in the oil stuff, radial symmetry. he scrapes some of them away and dries it, and samples it. Holy shit, was the exact phrase used, both for how awful it smells tastes and also for how it feels.

So then it sits another day evaping, but in the morning the sun gets it a bit and it melts, the crystals do, so he melts it all in the oven on low (170Â°) adds a tiny bit of xylene, dissolves all of the crystals andthen leaves the whole thing to evap again. It takes another day and a half before the oil turns into the crystals again and he scrapes it up and puts it into a small glass jar, lid open to dry further. To be honest when I posted about his results and said about a gram or so, the stuff had not been weighed but it had been tried four more times, each time going further, but not into ego loss, just into very strong open eye visuals, or about 2 tokes of the vapor.

So then I post and then it gets weighed, sorry that I said about a gram when it had not been weighed, it was eyeballed. So yeah its measured (today) and the stuff is less than 1.2 grams but more than 1.1.


16 of 34 1/28/06 10:01 PM

(his digiscale just does tenths of a gram at the least.)

And then there is the second evapâ€¦ over all there is at least 1.5 grams of this orange superpsychoactive material. So lets consider that maybe the stuff is half pure? Could that explain the yield?When its 'smoked' there is almost no residue at all, and the 'left overs' crystallize, are white/transparentwith radial symmetry on the sides of his improvised glass apparatus. The stuff stinks nasty, and foafsays that makes it very difficult to use. So foaf is down with the oral route, but has reservations aboutpurity.

Its all true. The best part was smoking the crystals and then coming down and being told in chat that nobody gets crystals their first time, though he didn't care to argue. The foaf had never done an A/B before, but has a harmala one going right now, which is not going as smoothly due to lipids and proteins from the peganum harmala seeds. He feels bad that others have struggled with the DMT thing, and he is very very very very very thankful to you (dg420) for having posted that info. he asked me to pass that on.

There were particular aspects to this that were not standard, it was like this because this was my Foafs first A/B and it was largely trial and error. Feel free to call it luck, if the boot fits foaf will wear it.


This is the jar whose contents weigh 1.1-1.2 grams.The jar is one inch tall.

It can't be too pure, but I noticed that it is not that diff than the picture here:http://leda.lycaeum.org/?ID=16972

Also the MHRB was a lovely dark purple, darker than the pictures of it I have seen... ok I convinced myself to post a pic of it.


archaea, will you cut and paste my reply to your pm here, so i dont have to reply twice??? results are huge, some impurities, sure, but it wont form crystals if too impure. thats what i'd have liked to see pics of...

nsngWhen adding acid it's been said that you should add slowly enough and dilute enough not to cause PH spikes and destroy the salt.

i've read this too, but like filtering and defatting,seems to be utter bullshit! acidify the shit out of it! just add your acid to the hot water and mix before adding it to the vessel. making it very acidic allows almost all the spice to be pulled in 1st pull, unlike other teks where 3-4 naptha pulls must be done i find yeilds after 2 pulls to be almost nothing(not worth time!) that means that dmt is sitting in ph1 for a short


17 of 34 1/28/06 10:01 PM

time only before the basic reaction pulls 90% into the naptha. i recomend using more naptha than some other teks i've read. also highly recomend the addition of naptha during ph shift

any one who wants can pm me questions. this is spiritual medicine and i want people to learn simple ways to get it.peace dg


K so it looks more purple in person, but imagine that the brown is a bit purple, maybe if you squint or something

Oh BTW dg420, check out the last post on the page right before this one on this thread...


dmtworld is what I was lookin' for! Nice link, thx.


dmt world is great. thats where i went to learn.... not all i read turns out to be as true/ needed as itseems, but over all a good place to study up on dmt

since i found this place i've not been back

dg


People are narrow sighted. Everyone seems so conscerned about highest yield. Like someone said earlier"how are you gonna measure such a small amount of product?" Well to answer, molarity. But to bringout my point of this reply............ If people could just accept that IV isn't such a bad thing, the word yield wouldn't even be spoken with such a chemical.

It's a shame that there isn't anything I've found out there to explain how to do this. Guess I'll have tobuy a couple of rabbits..... or get answers!


18 of 34 1/28/06 10:01 PM


I have an aversion to needles.I can get shots, or give them, but for me the idea of using a cold sharp piece of steel stuck through my skin and flesh to administer something that can promote a 'sacred' or therapeutic introspectiveexperience is oxymoronic and for lack of a better word; wrong.


I deffinately hear ya on that one. This is gonna be a very weird thing. But the benefits outweigh thedrawbacks.

Benefits-VERY small amount needed (.3mg/kg)Don't have to taste that damn plastic.Lasts a little longer, but not long enough to be a problem.


Yeah, I think its a matter of personal choice, and I see your point, though given the ease of the above method I think quantity is not much of an issue.

Purity becomes much more of an issue though, doesn't it?

I might as well ask this here, my foaf is wondering if there would be any detimental contaminants in regard to ingestion. Could trace amounts of lye (or anything else that might be present) be dangerous? Or would they be neutralized in the stomach/GI tract?

Posted by: Not-so New Guy Jun 04 05, 03:50 PM GMT

Yes, purity becomes very important, which is why I am seeking purity processes. It seems thatsublimation is gonna be the best method. You also get more impurities when you smoke from theheating aspect.

Trace amounts of lye should be neutralized if taken orally. One could also do what I do when I drinkwater. I always add lemon juice to my water for taste.

http://www.dmtworld.org/ , you can find most of what you're looking for there for sure. Except the infothat I'm seeking to get out to the publics' awareness.

Posted by: pietruck Jun 14 05, 05:57 PM GMT

Wow! I havent been in the lab much in the last few months. Last Dimitri extraction I tried I had mixed results yet again. So I put it away for a while.

Seriously nice crystals man.

Bravo...Bra....Fucking....O

pie

Posted by: dg420 Jun 14 05, 06:30 PM GMT

thanks pie! dg


19 of 34 1/28/06 10:01 PM

try experimenting with this and let me know the results....love to hear others experiences.

Posted by: dc Jun 14 05, 10:42 PM GMT

Hey dg420 thats some awesome work there, i did a very similar extraction on acacia obstusifolia bark on the weekend, no defatting although i did wash the non polar solvent. ended up with very clean product although i didnt get nice crystals like yourself as i dried it quickly

Posted by: zim Jun 15 05, 02:19 AM GMT

QUOTE

I might as well ask this here, my foaf is wondering if there would be any detimental contaminants in regard to ingestion.Could trace amounts of lye (or anything else that might be present) be dangerous? Or would they be neutralized in the stomach/GI tract?

Things should be fine I doubt any NaOH would of gotten through into the solvant and even if it did the any small amount that made it in to the stomach would be harmless because HCl + NaOH = NaCl Table salt.The only other contams could come from the Naptha as I have heard some peoples product turned blue. So as long as you test the solvant first any residuial trace after evaporation then things should be fine.


QUOTE(grosvero @ Jun 14 05, 10:42 PM UTC)

Hey dg420 thats some awesome work there, i did a very similar extraction on acacia obstusifolia bark on the weekend, no defatting although i did wash the non polar solvent. ended up with very clean product although i didnt get nice crystals like yourself as i dried it quickly

did you filter?how was the np washed? besides nndmt, what other alkaloids are in acacia? try the freezer/cold-slow evap next time, and let me know if it changes the structure...

i still need to learn more about this stuff and wish i could review specific details with people. peace


I heard one fellow (a bit of an asshole too if you ask me) saying that you had to defat the MHRB or fats would cover the crystals and be harsh on the lungs, he then gave a method that ended with HCL gas salting!! Wouldn't that be antithetical to smoking? Or is it just fine like the freebase?Hypothetically speaking of course.

Posted by: zim Jun 15 05, 03:17 PM GMT


20 of 34 1/28/06 10:01 PM

I dont actualy think you can smoke the salts of anything as salt just burn and I think bases can evaporate. I dont think there would be anypoint in converting it to a salt just to eat either as the gatric juices would do that anyway with the base form. Although with mescaline a salt is needed as its base is just to hard on the stomach. For MHRB defatting isnt needed, although for my last batch the DMT was to harh to smoke, even though i had an orange substance, so i think the remaing product does need cleaning a bit, maybe just washing the solvant containgin the dmt with frsh base water might help.


Also in theory if you did salt it out, then you could wash the fats away with a NP so the defatting is again not needed. Correct?

Posted by: zim Jun 15 05, 05:35 PM GMT

Well you would first start by adding the plant material to acidic water then after you have let it sit for a while ans slight boiled ect, you could add a solvant and defat it in that stage, before adding the lye and then extracting the goodies.

Posted by: ion Jun 16 05, 10:25 PM GMT

All of the information is available here. It just has to be put together in a cohesive manner for the mindto grasp it sometimes. That's why we write "teks" after all.

Your last statement was correct, sunchild, yes. It would be best to dissolve the salt so that oils would notsit in pockets inside it.

One thing I'd like to make clear: DMT is not a very hard material. It is an oil even at purities that aresufficient for dosing. It is a waxy amorphous solid at slightly higher purity, a waxy crystalline solid ateven higher purity, and a "clinky-hard" crystal only at purity levels over about 98% (estimated).

This is the main reason I think folks want to call the impurities "fats and oils" when it comes to this substance... but they aren't. The major impurities are colored complexes (things like chlorophyll), tannin(difficult to remove because it travels along with alkaloids), and often basic salts (from the extraction process).


That makes sense given what my foaf has seen. Thank you sir.


the harder and clearer crystal in much less harsh and tastes better than waxy or oily stuff, hands down. some people even say its a pleasant sweet taste.( kind bud under helps ) may it be bases or tannins

or whatever....

Posted by: PsychoHipE Jun 20 05, 09:20 PM GMT

Ok, I picked up some muriatic acid and a one gallon glass jar today, since I already had MHRB, naptha, lye, distilled water, and glass baking dishes on hand. Wonder how many people can say that...

So this is exactly what I plan to do:

Grind 140g MHRB to fine powder.


21 of 34 1/28/06 10:01 PM

Place in 1 gallon glass jar.

Add 1/2 gallon boiling distilled water.

Add 5 tablespoons muriatic acid (30% HCL).

Shake well.

Place in double boiler (crock pot?) outside.

Shake every 3 minutes for 1/2 hour.

Make basic solution:5 tablespoons lye + 2.5 cups water

Add 3/4 cup base.

Add 4 cups hot naptha.

Shake.

Add another 3/4 cup base to make all MHRB black.

Shake.

Cool for one hour (or more) in cold water bath to separate polar & non-polar layers.

Siphon off naptha, place in glass bowl in hot water bath in front of fan.

Reduce volume by half, allow to cool.

Place in large (9" x 13") glass baking dish.

Cover dish, place in freezer 1/2 hour.

Remove from freezer, uncover, and place outside to fully evaporate for several hours (days?).

When fully dry, scrape up crystals/powder and prepare to meet elfin creatures.

For the gallon jar, I found a sun tea jar at K-mart that conveniently has a siphon built in...I'm thinking it will make a good "poor-man's separatory funnel." The spigot is composed entirely of PE & PP, neither of these would react with any of the materials involved, correct? I'm thinking I will siphon off most of

the naptha through the spigot, then pour the rest into a glass bowl and suck up the rest with a syringe. Does that sound...well, sound?

Also, I've not made a lye solution before. Any tips or tricks, or warnings? Other than the obvious one about "Don't get any friggin' lye on yourself if you like your skin," of course.

So...sound good?

Posted by: winder Jun 20 05, 09:48 PM GMT

Add the lye to water, NEVER water to lye.

When diluting concentrated acids or bases, ALWAYS add the concentrate TO the water.This will minimize the splattering, particularly if you stop the addition.


22 of 34 1/28/06 10:01 PM

A little bit of water into a lot of acid or base can lead to bad splattering.

No one needs blindness.

As for freebases versus salts, the salts will always be less volatile than the freebase. Nonetheless, a saltdoes not preclude volatility at a high enough temperature. Some salts are still volatile enough.


Cool. I figured that was the case, as I'd read the same caveat re: HCL.

Only problem I can see thus far is that I'll need to find a more tight-fitting lid for the jar. I was washing it out, and as I shook it up while full of soapy water it leaked around the rim something fierce. Perhaps a layer or 2 of plastic (baggie, piece of tarp, etc.) stretched over the mouth before screwing on the lid would solve that? I certainly don't want to be spewing my materials all over the place while shaking.

Posted by: Not-so New Guy Jun 20 05, 10:27 PM GMT

You don't want that much liquid. Just enough to cover the material.

It's not as complex as it's made out to be. You can get high volume product even by simmering the acidsolution w/ plant material for one hour. Cooling and straining. Repeat 2 more times. From the researchI've done and what I've seen so far is that this is a time killing step that does not need to be so long.

Check out this http://www.dmtworld.org/teks/acacia_extraction.html if you want.


Be extremely careful when you are shaking. Pressure buildup from solvent in the jar won't be an issue...but combined with the weakening of the glass by lye it may be.

If you ding the glass on a ceramic crock pot even gently, it can easily shatter (ceramic has no love in it at all... it is extremely hard and glass cannot handle the intensity being an amorphous and fragile entity).

Wear leather gloves overlaid by large nitrile or neoprene gloves. This will avoid you being cut if a shardgets pressed into your palm, and still provide chemical protection.

Hold the jar by the lid and the base and shake from side to side with a rocking motion. DO NOT shakean upright jar up-and-down! I've seen the bottoms pop out of way too many jars and bottles by doingthis! It is less likely to happen if the jar is full to the brim with liquid (no airspace), though.

Posted by: droop23 Jun 21 05, 12:19 AM GMT

QUOTE

cannot handle the intensity being an amorphous and fragile entity.

That is a singularly elegant phrase!

Posted by: PsychoHipE Jun 21 05, 12:53 AM GMT


23 of 34 1/28/06 10:01 PM

Thanks for the shaking tips, ion. I was thinking I'd go with more of a heavy swirling than an out-and-out "shaking" just to be safe, and now I see I was justified in wanting to do so.

Heck, I might even line the inside of the crock pot with a towel just to be uber-safe...if I lost all of my material AND got a chem burn...well, talk about adding insult to injury!

Not-so New Guy: In regards to the amount of liquid, I have noted that most extraction teks recommend the amount of liquid you describe (i.e. just enough to cover), but since this is my first official try with an a/b MHRB extraction I simply wanted to try to follow dg420's procedure to the letter. Sort of like making a recipe the first time: I do it precisely as it is written with as little deviation as possible, and once it works I begin tinkering with what works best for me.

I figure what the hell, those pics don't lie! Sweet, sweet crystals...

Posted by: ion Jun 21 05, 12:54 AM GMT

Thanks... but in retrospect it's kinda silly. It's a little off-topic, but I think it's an interesting point, so heregoes...

Amorphous substances are some of the most rugged materials known. Crystal glass is more delicatethan amorphous glass, just as crystalline metal alloys are more brittle than amorphous types.

Why? My only guess is that amorphous materials exist with higher innate entropy than their crystallinecounterparts. Crystals are more difficult to maintain due to the tendency of our universe towardentropy... even though technically a perfectly pure, perfectly arranged, absolute zero solid crystal would exist at the lowest energetic state possible.

Perhaps when the universe ceases expansion and begins to coalesce again, we would see an opposite trend. Things would much rather stay together than break into tiny peices... woah... I just froke myselfout.


Use paper towels for padding, bro. That way if they get soaked with stuff, you can just throw them intothe new extraction vessel and they will dissolve.


Well, the polar/non-polar mix has been sitting in a cold water bath for just over an hour now, and I think it's fully separated. Actually it looked pretty good after 30 mins, but I want to be sure to get every last bit of that good stuff.

I'm about to siphon off the naptha and begin the initial evap. in the hot water bath, followed by 30 mins in the freezer and then the final evap. in my garage.

So far so good! It was really trippy to see the polar layer go almost solid black as I added the basic solution.

Sorry if I'm hijacking your thread, dg420. Consider it an amateur's homage to your process.

I'll dig up that missing digicam (where IS that thing? ) and try to post some crappy pics of the results

tomorrow. I'ma prayin' fer crystals.


Oh I hear ya! Thought I'd spit that out there tho. I ran into a too much liquid problem right off the bat.


24 of 34 1/28/06 10:01 PM

Since I use sepratory funnels it's troublesome to have to do things 2 or 3 times.

QUOTE

I simply wanted to try to follow dg420's procedure to the letter. Sort of like making a recipe the first time: I do it precisely as it is written with as little deviation as possible, and once it works I begin tinkering with what works best for me.


Ahh, I see. I just pulled the naptha right off the top with a bulb baster at first and then a syringe to finish up, so the huge amount of polar liquid on bottom wasn't much of an issue. In fact, it made it a lot easier to reach in and grab the naptha having the jar 3/4 full! I can see how this wouldn't be a good thing

though if you only had, say, a 1000ml sep. funnel. I was perusing a few glass places online last night just to see how much a 4000ml sep. funnel would run, and uh...yikes!

I've got the glass dish of naptha in the freezer now...I gotta say that if this works nearly as well as dg420's results indicate, I am super impressed! The whole shabang start to finish isn't going to have taken more than 3 1/2 hours, minus the final evap. No filtering, no muss no fuss! That, I think, is the

thing that attracted me to this procedure...a true Lazy Man's DMT Tek!


An open dish of solvent inside a fridge or freezer is an explosion waiting to happen man. Is it covered insome way?


Yup. My 9 x 13 casserole has a nice, tight-fitting lid that is on it now. I haven't heard any explosions

from upstairs, so I'll assume it's OK.


I dunno why I thought it was an open dish, but I figured it was a possibility, so I mentioned it. Good job,man.


Ahh, I see. I just pulled the naptha right off the top with a bulb baster at first and then a syringe to finish up, so the huge amount of polar liquid on bottom wasn't much of an issue. In fact, it made it a lot easier to reach in and grab the naptha having the jar 3/4 full! I can see how this wouldn't be a good thingthough if you only had, say, a 1000ml sep

this is why i used that much water.... and really, these things have variables.you said the mix went almost black? should be all black.post results!!!! you hi-jacking bastard!hope you found the spice........peace dg

coming soon... bulk extraction details


25 of 34 1/28/06 10:01 PM


Well, yeah it was all black. Sorry for the haziness of description.

I'm still letting it evap niiiiiice and slooooooow in my garage right now. It's currently about 80% done...and oh, MAMA there are some nice looking crystals forming at the edges of the dish!

I went out to check it today to find a bug had gotten into the dish and died! Heh heh, oops. Bet

that bug died an interesting death...

"Buzz buzz buzz, hey what's this dish here? I think I'll take a closer look by landing in it.

Buzz buzz, hey what's that horrible smell? Ahhh, no I'm stuck!

Buzz buzz bu...holy fuck what the hell are those multicolored elves doing there?!?! Eeep!"

::slumps over dead::


i finally set a window sreen above to keep out pests.glad it seems to be working.... post pics please

dg


Ooo, good thinking! I have an old window screen in the garage I can clean up for just that purpose.

And re: pics: even if I find my digicam in all these boxes (goddamned moving! ), I seriously doubt

it will show the crystals. It's fairly low res. Not bad for pics of fungus setups, but not so hot for

crystals and such.

Perhaps I could coax my step-brother into bringing over his girlfriend's dad's badass gazillion megapixel cam. I'll tell him it's the only way I'll let him try the end product!


The pan is still evaporating, but is about 95% done as of this afternoon (I'm forcing myself not to check it more than once every 12 hours ). Yeah, I know, I should have done a quick evap with a fan to

50%, what can I say, it was late and I had to be up early the next day.

Anyway...

GodDAMN there are some beautiful crystals forming in that pan.

Not even when I did one of those "grow your own rock crystals" kits as a young child did I see such gorgeous, pristine white crystals. I mean, wow. Just wow. To have your first try at an a/b extraction turn out this well? I am friggin' floored.

And before there's any more ranting & raving about me teasing and not providing pics: a good digicam is on its way over here tomorrow. So

I can't believe it worked so well. MHRB from an unknown (and no longer available) source on ebay, left


26 of 34 1/28/06 10:01 PM

to sit in an unsealed plastic bag in a random box on my shelf for 2 years, almost (but never quite!) forgotton about. A simple method that took less than an hour of active prep, and was my first attempt at ANY a/b extraction, much less DMT...

And I'm going to have an assload of some of the prettiest DMT freebase crystals I've ever seen.

Wow. I'm already flabbergasted and I haven't even smoked the stuff yet!

Cyber-hug for dg420!

Posted by: KinetiQ Jun 25 05, 03:28 AM GMT

Good god I need to try this tek.


i only ask that you share, and use this tek for the forces of good

glad it worked well!


http://www.thenook.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=34735


Man... this all makes me very happy.

Posted by: free spirit Jun 28 05, 07:51 PM GMT

ok.. what with all the success with this tek... and me tired of sitting on a pile of diplops leaves, i havedecided to essentially do this tek to the leaf matter.

i am curious to see if a defatting is needed, as logic would sort of suggest it would be needed with leaves as opposed to root bark which should have less lipids in it.

so far everything is going according to plan. destemmed then ground the leaves, added 1/2 gallonboiling water to them, added 5 tablespoons muriatic to that, shook every few mins for 45 mins or so.added the base water @ 1 cup to start, then 4 cups of hot naptha (vm&p) then another say 3/4 cup until ... YAY... the leaf matter changed color as well got black!

hopefully it will act as a similar indicator... i know its not certain it will, but it seems a bit too similar for mere chance...

naptha seperated out much faster than dgs method and appears to be fairly clear. im going to let it sitfor a couple of hours to allow the lil microscopic particles to fall out of the naptha if they are going to.

tonight ill be syphoning them off... reducing a bit.. and then evapping...

wish me luck. if it works for the diplops leaves too... i would think it could be applied to lots ofsubstrates.



27 of 34 1/28/06 10:01 PM

didnt reduce my naptha nearly as much as dg did... just got tired of babysitting the hot water bath...

so i let it sit out on the porch w/ a window open and it on the shelf...

no crystals formed overnight.. but when i went to stare at it... there is a white substance starting to precipate (correct word?) out. hopefully this is the spice! its very small particles that are white and wheni move it they swirl around and around in the liquid.

i was a bit skeptical that this would work as after i took the naptha out, it had definitely taken some of the clorophyl (or the color from it) and was a yellowish color. but this typically happens in cactiextractions and it turns out fine.

im starting to get excited now... this morning i was all bummed out cuz i didnt have big xtals growing in the solution... but i hadnt reduced it as much.. and after some closer checking today now i see the white particles which gives me hope.

letya know as i know something!


white swirls= goodies usually.next time defat after making acidic once with naptha and evap to see if there is any residue or oils or color... if nothing from de=fatted naptha then skip it next time.hope it works.

i've done more testing of the method on larger scales and it works great(at least with mhrb)

good luck fs


i was sorta trying to see if the defat is unnecesary.. if the xtals are purish then i would think it would be.people say you need to defat mhrb... they said you needed to defat cacti too... time and experimentshave shown both to be false... i figure we will never know if its false on this one until somebody tries itout.


I didn't start seeing crystals until it was preety far evapped, so don't depair yet, you may still end up with a relatiely pure product. Kudos on the attempt to provide us with evidence as to the true necessity of defatting other materials! Hope it works out for ya.


Waiting with bated breath over here...

Posted by: free spirit Jun 30 05, 11:48 AM GMT

ok... well this damn naptha STILL hasnt evapped... i live in an area with a really high RH, and im surethis has something to do with it.

inside my collection dish, there are several bubbbles. these bubbles i believe to be 3-4 drops of h20 thati maybe didnt wipe out before pouring in the naptha (had just handwashed and dried the dish). i alsohave ALOT of white particulate matter that as the solution reduces keeps increasing in appearance. it iscollecting on the sides of the dish (its at a small angle) that have less liquid in it. now the white matterhas like encapsulated the bubbles making it so they are part of the solution. infact... i have seen bubbles


28 of 34 1/28/06 10:01 PM

slide over and under each other... they do NOT want to join because they are covered by the whitish particulate. pretty weird really...

i am leaving town tommorrow to go camping for a week... time for the heating pad and fan.

yesterday i put it on the heating pad for 2 hours w/ a fan blowing to help speed things up as i didnt reduce in the water bath as much. afterwards i stuck in the freezer (covered of course) for another 30mins and let it sit on windowsill to evap again.

it should be noted that after heating the solution... none of the white particulate matter was visible, and after cooling off it became visible again...

i might not have anything in there... i might have alot of spice... but im running out of time.. and if i do have anything... well.. it may just not be as perty... cuz ima hafta quick evap the rest...

but if the white substance disapears with heat... will it suddenly emerge when all the naptha is reduced off if i use heat?

edited to add...its hotter than shit today... RH is MUCH lower and finally seeing good evap... dunno if it has any magictho...


i'll never recomend a hot evap. use the fan, skip the heating pad.sometimes the best things take time...

as long as the heat was low, yes the white should reappear.luckdg


i would wager i hot evapped no more than your hot water bath did.. and the white has come back allready...

its 95% evapped... ill definitely have SOMETHING... whether its good or not... time will tell...


ok... well maybe defatting was needed

what i got was a film that looked white in nature until i scraped it.

i scraped it up and its this yellow goop... burned a lil bit and it doesnt smell overpoweringly like burningplastic or anything...

i dunno what to do with it... throw it away or try to smoke it.... it certainly doesnt look like what itssposed to.


29 of 34 1/28/06 10:01 PM

Posted by: PsychoHipE Jul 01 05, 12:03 AM GMT

Heck, I didn't think the xtals I got smelled/tasted all that much like plastic, IMHO. A bit, but not overwhelmingly so...I would throw 'er in the pipe and see what happens, but that's just me.

Posted by: SKiLLFARMER Jul 01 05, 12:06 AM GMT

Psycho when are you going to get a digital camera? I have read many posts on many different subjectson this forum dating over a year ago and there you are in each and everyone sounding well educated and thurough while documenting every step in detail and at the end of every one of those posts your like "and as soon as i get a digi i'll post some pics" or "i should be gettin a digi soon, will post pics later"

I CAN"T TAKE IT! I NEED TO SEE PICTURS OF YOUR FUNGI and now i NEED TO SEE PICTURES OF THE CHRYSTALS! DAMMIT! so seriously...ummm we should buy psycho a camera!

Posted by: PsychoHipE Jul 01 05, 04:29 AM GMT

Check out the pics in http://www.thenook.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=34735. 'Bout half way down.

So there!

I do have a digi, and I DID post several pictures of my last fungus grow, they just weren't great quality (it's only an 0.3 megapixel camera, but it works for me). I haven't taken any pics lately because I moved 2 months ago and still can't find where I packed it! Sheesh.

Posted by: winder Jul 01 05, 09:49 AM GMT

Changes in RH will not alter the evaporation rate of something that is not water.RH will only effect the evaporation rate of water.

Temperature, air movement, and exposed area will affect the evaporation rate of everything. Perhaps afilm built up on the surface slowed the evaporation.

Posted by: dg420 Jul 02 05, 03:19 AM GMT

fs, sounds like it worked, just did not crystalize well. that seems to happen from time to time. try it out. then again, i dont know much about your starting material.

Posted by: ion Jul 06 05, 10:54 PM GMT

Hmm...

Another worker recently explained a similar situation to me, free.

The white stuff sounds like goodies. The bubbles are almost certainly water. Rh will affect this particularprocess. Lemme explain, now that I have my ideas down...

Water dissolves lye and baking soda much more readily than any NP solvent.

We need that lye or baking soda to stay in the NP, though, in order for it to properly arrange and crystallize the gooey DMT.


30 of 34 1/28/06 10:01 PM

If water is present (as humidity or droplets), the baking soda will migrate to it and concentrate there... this would keep it from doing its aforementioned job.

This also indicates that pockets of baking soda will not help DMT to crystallize, since pockets would be formed in the case of saturated water droplets that have dried.

Therefore, I would like to suggest that you redissolve your goo into a bit of NP solvent, free. Add a tinypinch of baking soda (no water) and shake well. Pour the solvent into a dry evap dish that is sitting nextto a pan of dessicant (calcium chloride pellets). Evap with no heat or moving air for the first few days atleast, then air only if needed.

"If my calculations are correct..."

Posted by: free spirit Jul 07 05, 12:00 AM GMT

hmmm and i was thinking of trying to smoke the goop later tonight...

damn you and your solutions ion

it didnt seem like nearly enough for what i used... but who knows... would multiple washes yield moreresults?

i was thinking the goop was from fats or something that resulted from not defatting the solution... since iput all my eggs in one basket.. i figured i was either screwed or maybe i could reacidify->defat->basify->extract.

i dunno.. the lil bit of the stuff that i smoked to see what it tasted like.. (just like a tiny puff) and i felt way weird for 10 mins or so...


No doubt it is still good stuff if you can stand to smoke it.

I wrote a post a few days ago concerning the nature of DMT solid and how the oilyness is not due to fatty impurities, but to the DMT itself. Here is a link to the post:http://www.thenook.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=32146&st=60#

Cleaning it will only reduce the apparent yield.

Posted by: free spirit Jul 07 05, 06:53 PM GMT

well... just trying to see what i can do...

i am currently dissolving it... however... it doesnt want to dissolve all the way. it was left scrapedtogether in a big ball and sat that way for a few days (5 maybe) and i just dropped the ball in there and stirred it... added heat to it... stirred it... its sat in naptha for a good 24 hours now... or close to it... itstill doesnt want to finish dissolving..

you said to dissolve it BEFORE adding the baking soda yes?

and.. do i stand any chance of getting more washes out of it... should i try to reacidify and defat? or just try to extract again and see what happens?



31 of 34 1/28/06 10:01 PM

once i had some oily crap and mixed it into hot naptha( very concentrated solution)it also had some dust and a few bugs mixed into the oily mass. so once every bit had melted the solovent was yellow and thick with a 1/2 of oil in the bottom of the 1/2gal mason jar. the solution was filtered thru cotton balls(catching oils to be added to future extractions).then it was puored into a caserole dish and put in freezer. salt like grains of dmt formed once the mix cooled and formed a 3/8 -1/2" thick solid crust on the bottom of dish. after 3 hrs no more crystals formed, so the still yellow naptha was puored off the crust and added to the 1/2" of oil from earlier for future use. yeild 62g slightly off white powder. this was the first and second pulls from 7.5kg mhrb, and was processed in one day. initial oily yeild 114g, so another 30-50gs remain for future experiments. aherr,hypothetically speaking of course

so fs, once your goddies are in the naptha( skip ions soda suggestion just yet) reduce the volume and freeze!! the crystals dont form as nice as slow evap, but it stays cleaner and is just as pure if not purer than open air dried stuff. overnight in freezer and see if any goodies crash out.probably could skip de-fatting using this freeze tek

dg


color of the solution is the color of naptha.. but its cloudy. the bits that have not dissolved are the uglyparts... what i mean is all the brown/color that was in it seems to have concentrated down to the fewclumps that are scattered across the bottom... but do not look like they are going to dissolve anymore.will again add heat (double boiler) and see what i can get...

im wondering if the garbage doesnt want to go back into the naptha.. or if it is garbage...

soo what yer suggesting is to filter out the particulates that refuse to go back into the naptha... thenpour into a covered (i assume a tight tinfoil cover would be ok) evap dish and set it in the freezer?


Yes, that is what he is saying, I believe. It's recrystallization. I'd use something more like a bottle orstoppered flask... foil isn't tight enough to keep naphtha in and water out.

I have not had good luck recrystallizing in the manner described, unfortunately, but it is worth a shot before you try the baking soda thing. Yes, I mean for you to add the soda after DMT is dissolved.


well i filtered it and put it (its only like 1-2 ounces of naptha) into the freezer in a widemouth half pint sealed up tight. i doubt this is gonna work as my solution looks nothing like your describing dg, but if itdoesnt work, i will add baking soda and evap slowly...

there is of course the chance that there is nothing really good in what i have here.... which would suck...


been in the freezer for a few hours.... starting to see some white stuff thats swirling around in it. it iscollecting at the bottom... wonder if they will crash out!


nope... still swirly white stuff on the bottom.. but no xtals... i add a small amount of baking soda today,and evap near a tray of dessicant.


32 of 34 1/28/06 10:01 PM


Since neither of these methods seems to be working properly, my next guess is a problem with the solvent. What brand of naphtha are you using?

The white swirlies you saw were most likely DMT, just highly nucleated with very little growth (indicating that the solvent is not concentrated enough with DMT, or a few other issues). You should be able to filterthe white stuff out if you try again after reducing the volume of solvent a little.

Once again, if it's not a matter of seeding with baking soda, then crystallization is entirely dependent upon the solvent used. Slowly but surely we are narrowing down the major players in this process.

Please indicate your brand of solvent.


vm&p naptha manufactured by Crown

well... naptha and baking soda arent soluble together... (i tried dissolving it in hot naptha and it wouldnot. sooo i did a water rinse... shook like shit.. let settle...seperated off the naptha again.

it is now evapping sitting in a windowsill....

im starting to dislike the smell of naptha alot now...


the freezer thing does seem to work better with higher concentrations. with light stuff i just wait until the white swirls appear then slow cool evap for crystals. its too hot outside around here for good evap, so the freever it is.fs, if it is dmt then just evap it and give it a try. doesn't matter what it looks like. if it doesn't work get mhrb for next try.peace


thats where im at...xtals or no... ima smoke what residue i get outa this evap dish... and its not much dmt here at all... forsure...

if it seems like it IS dmt... ill figure out how to get the rest out of the extraction vessel. if it seems like itisnt... ill get some mhrb

edited to add... i checked on it..

what i had was white residue. i scraped that and i have a clearish oil... with maybe the smallest tint ofamber to it... but like totally clear.. and almost white... this is by far the most pure looking product ivehad but yah.. no where near crystallisation. ill smoke the oil in a lightbulb sometime... see what itgleems.

i would add that i thought the water wash was cool... it took all the gunk out.... seperated quickly and left me with a nice clean product (albeit not in the right form)

Posted by: ion Jul 12 05, 01:04 AM GMT


33 of 34 1/28/06 10:01 PM

Hmm...

Yeah, it very well could be the solvent. If your oil is clean, you may actually be able to get it tocrystallize just by waiting for a long time (I've left even dirty oil in a dish for a week or so undisturbed only to find it growing crystals then).

Are you evaporating your solvent inside the freezer, dg? That could prove very dangerous, bro. Pleasebe careful!

Baking soda is soluble in naptha, but only to a very tiny degree... slightly moreso when the solvent is hot.

Let us know how the oil does ya, free!

Posted by: dg420 Jul 13 05, 04:28 PM GMT

no, not evapping in freezer,when the np is very saturated freezing causes 90% to fall out. allowing re-use if the np the cold

slows evap to a safe freezer level ime, just covered with foil.peacedg

Posted by: ion Jul 15 05, 02:18 AM GMT

Ah, thank you for the clarification.

Posted by: thegreenchronic Aug 18 05, 09:24 PM GMT

just wondering what MHRB is. as in what type of root bark you are using. thanks for helping a newb with an intense thirst for knowledge and an affinity for psychedelic experiences.

Posted by: ion Aug 18 05, 11:14 PM GMT

mimosa hostilis root bark: MHRB

Welcome!

Posted by: thegreenchronic Aug 18 05, 11:59 PM GMT

thanks man.

Posted by: marsofold Aug 19 05, 01:03 AM GMT

I once had a batch of MHRB extract into oily yellow crystals. Here's how I fixed that:I added about 250ml of HOT(microwaved) undiluted vinegar to the yellow crystals and stirred well for 10 minutes. Then I used 50ml of xylene to defat. Removed the xylene and again used another 50ml of xylene to defat. Removed the xylene PLUS 10% of the upper water layer to be sure I had removed ALL of the xylene. Then I basified to a ph of 13 using ph papers. And added a little more base after that to be sure. Extracted with 50ml of naptha three times(total 150ml). Evaporated it down to half(75ml). And put it in a glass baking pan in the freezer(covered with Saran wrap). Three days later I carefully poured off the naptha, replaced the Saran wrap, and allowed the pan to warm up to keep condensation out. After reaching room temp, I pulled off the Saran wrap and had nice white crystals in the pan still slightly wet from a little bit of remaining naptha. No yellow. After they dried, I washed them with ammonium hydroxide(non-soapy 10% strength) and they were perfect. No yellow at all and later smoked very


34 of 34 1/28/06 10:01 PM

smooth...Mars

Posted by: chaotik_drag0n Oct 20 05, 10:38 PM GMT

QUOTE

thats where im at...xtals or no... ima smoke what residue i get outa this evap dish... and its not much dmt here at all... for sure...

if it seems like it IS dmt... ill figure out how to get the rest out of the extraction vessel. if it seems like it isnt... ill get some mhrb

edited to add... i checked on it..

what i had was white residue. i scraped that and i have a clearish oil... with maybe the smallest tint of amber to it... but like totally clear.. and almost white... this is by far the most pure looking product ive had but yah.. no where near crystallisation. ill smoke the oil in a lightbulb sometime... see what it gleems.

i would add that i thought the water wash was cool... it took all the gunk out.... seperated quickly and left me with a nice clean product (albeit not in the right form)

So????

What happened? Did you post in the trip reports?

Kinda scary readin thru this whole post and the last thing a guy says is "i will try and smoke some" Then not a single other post by him in the same thread since july.

Posted by: ion Oct 20 05, 11:21 PM GMT

Heh... he made his own thread, which is what a person should do for their own experiments.

See the "step by step mhrb extraction with pics" thread.

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