Platón - Theaetetus

8/13/2019 Platn - Theaetetus

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Theaetetus

Eucleides,Terpsion,Socrates,Theodorus,Theaetetus. [142a]

Eucleides

Just in from the country, Terpsion, or did you come some time ago?

Terpsion

uite a !hile ago" and # !as loo$ing for you in the mar$et%place and !ondering that #

could not find you.

Eucleides

&ell, you see, # !as not in the city.

Terpsion

&here then?

Eucleides

's # !as going do!n to the har(or # met Theaetetus (eing carried to'thensfrom the camp

at )orinth.

Terpsion

'li*e or dead? [142(]

Eucleides

Just (arely ali*e" for he is suffering se*erely from !ounds, and, !orse than that, he has

(een ta$en !ith the sic$ness that has (ro$en out in the army.

Terpsion

+ou mean the dysentery?

Eucleides

+es.

Terpsion

&hat a man he is !ho you say is in danger

Eucleides

' no(le man, Terpsion, and indeed -ust no! # heard some people praising him highly forhis conduct in the (attle.

Terpsion

That is not at all strange" it !ould ha*e (een much more remar$a(le if he had not so

conducted himself. ut !hy did he not [142c] stop here in /egara?
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Eucleides

0e !as in a hurry to get home" for # (egged and ad*ised him to stop, (ut he !ould not. So #!ent along !ith him, and as # !as coming (ac$ # thought of Socrates and !ondered at his

prophetic gift, especially in !hat he said a(out him. or # thin$ he met him a little (efore

his o!n death, !hen Theaetetus !as a mere (oy, and as a result of acuaintance and

con*ersation !ith him, he greatly admired his ualities. &hen # !ent to 'thens he relatedto me the con*ersation [142d] he had !ith him, !hich !as !ell !orth hearing, and he said

he !ould surely (ecome a nota(le man if he li*ed.

Terpsion

'nd he !as right, apparently. ut !hat !as the tal$? )ould you relate it?

Eucleides

3o, (y eus, at least not offhand. [145a] ut # made notes at the time as soon as # reached

home, then after!ards at my leisure, as # recalled things, # !rote them do!n, and !hene*er# !ent to 'thens# used to as$ Socrates a(out !hat # could not remem(er, and then # came

here and made corrections" so that # ha*e pretty much the !hole tal$ !ritten do!n.

Terpsion

That is true. # heard you say so (efore" and really # ha*e (een !aiting a(out here all alongintending to as$ you to sho! it to me. &hat hinders us from reading it no!? )ertainly #

need to rest, since # ha*e come from the country. [145(]

Eucleides

'nd # myself !ent !ith Theaetetus as far as Erineum,1so # also should not (e sorry to ta$ea rest. )ome, let us go, and !hile !e are resting, the (oy shall read to us.

Terpsion

6ery !ell.

Eucleides

0ere is the (oo$, Terpsion. 3o! this is the !ay # !rote the con*ersation7 # did not

represent Socrates relating it to me, as he did, (ut con*ersing !ith those !ith !hom he told

me he con*ersed. 'nd he told me they !ere the geometrician Theodorus and Theaetetus.

3o! in order that [145c] the e8planatory !ords (et!een the speeches might not (eannoying in the !ritten account, such as 9and # said: or 9and # remar$ed,: !hene*er

Socrates spo$e, or 9he agreed or he did not agree,: in the case of the interlocutor, # omitted

all that sort of thing and represented Socrates himself as tal$ing !ith them.

Terpsion

That is uite fitting, Eucleides.

Eucleides

)ome, (oy, ta$e the (oo$ and read. [145d]
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Socrates

#f # cared more for )yreneand its affairs, Theodorus, # should as$ you a(out things thereand a(out the people, !hether any of the young men there are de*oting themsel*es to

geometry or any other form of philosophy" (ut as it is, since # care less for those people

than for the people here, # am more eager to $no! !hich of our o!n young men are li$ely

to gain reputation. These are the things # myself in*estigate, so far as # can, and a(out!hich # uestion those others !ith !hom # see that the young men li$e to associate. 3o! a

great many of them come to you, and rightly, [145e] for you deser*e it on account of your

geometry, not to spea$ of other reasons. So if you ha*e met !ith any young man !ho is!orth mentioning, # should li$e to hear a(out him.

Theodorus

Truly, Socrates, it is !ell !orth !hile for me to tal$ and for you to hear a(out a splendid

young fello!, one of your fello!%citi;ens, !hom # ha*e met. 3o! if he !ere handsome, #should (e *ery much afraid to spea$, lest someone should thin$ # !as in lo*e !ith him. ut

the fact is


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Socrates

#t is a no(le man that you descri(e. 3o! please tell him to come here and sit (y us.

Theodorus

# !ill. Theaetetus, come here to Socrates.

Socrates

+es, do so, Theaetetus, that # may loo$ at myself and see !hat sort of a face # ha*e" [144e]

for Theodorus says it is li$e yours. 3o! if !e each had a lyre, and he said !e had tunedthem to the same $ey, should !e ta$e his !ord for it !ithout more ado, or should !e

inuire first !hether he !ho said it !as a musician?

Theaetetus

&e should inuire.

Socrates

Then if !e found that he !as a musician, !e should (elie*e him, (ut if not, !e shouldrefuse to ta$e his !ord?

Theaetetus

+es.

Socrates

ut no!, if !e are concerned a(out the li$eness of our faces, [14a] !e must consider

!hether he !ho spea$s is a painter, or not.

Theaetetus

# thin$ !e must.

Socrates

&ell, is Theodorus a painter?

Theaetetus

3ot so far as # $no!.

Socrates

3or a geometrician, either?

Theaetetus

>h yes, decidedly, Socrates.

Socrates

'nd an astronomer, and an arithmetician, and a musician, and in general an educated man?

Theaetetus

# thin$ so.


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Socrates

&ell then, if he says, either in praise or (lame, that !e ha*e some physical resem(lance, itis not especially !orth !hile to pay attention to him.

Theaetetus

@erhaps not. [14(]

Socrates

ut !hat if he should praise the soul of one of us for *irtue and !isdom? #s it not !orth!hile for the one !ho hears to e8amine eagerly the one !ho is praised, and for that one to

e8hi(it his ualities !ith eagerness?

Theaetetus

)ertainly, Socrates.

Socrates

Then, my dear Theaetetus, this is -ust the time for you to e8hi(it your ualities and for meto e8amine them" for # assure you that Theodorus, though he has praised many foreignersand citi;ens to me, ne*er praised anyone as he praised you -ust no!.

Theaetetus

' good idea, Socrates" (ut ma$e sure [14c] that he !as not spea$ing in -est.

Socrates

That is not Theodorus=s !ay. ut do not see$ to dra! (ac$ from your agreement on theprete8t that he is -esting, or he !ill (e forced to testify under oath" for certainly no one !ill

accuse him of per-ury. )ome, (e courageous and hold to the agreement.

Theaetetus

# suppose # must, if you say so.

Socrates

3o! tell me" # suppose you learn some geometry from Theodorus?

Theaetetus

+es. [14d]

Socrates

'nd astronomy and harmony and arithmetic?

Theaetetus

# try hard to do so.

Socrates

'nd so do #, my (oy, from him and from any others !ho # thin$ $no! anything a(out these

things. ut ne*ertheless, although in other respects # get on fairly !ell in them, yet # am in


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dou(t a(out one little matter, !hich should (e in*estigated !ith your help and that of these

others. Tell me, is not learning gro!ing !iser a(out that !hich one learns?

Theaetetus

>f course.

Socrates

'nd the !ise, # suppose, are !ise (y !isdom.

Theaetetus

+es. [14e]

Socrates

'nd does this differ at all from $no!ledge?

Theaetetus

Aoes !hat differ?

Socrates

&isdom. >r are not people !ise in that of !hich they ha*e $no!ledge?

Theaetetus

>f course.

Socrates

Then $no!ledge and !isdom are the same thing?

Theaetetus+es.

Socrates

&ell, it is -ust this that # am in dou(t a(out and cannot fully grasp (y my o!n efforts


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Socrates

&ell, Theaetetus, you hear !hat Theodorus says, [14Bc] and # thin$ you !ill not !ish todiso(ey him, nor is it right for a young person to diso(ey a !ise man !hen he gi*es

instructions a(out such matters. )ome, spea$ up !ell and no(ly. &hat do you thin$

$no!ledge is?

Theaetetus

&ell, Socrates, # must, since you (id me. or, if # ma$e a mista$e, you are sure to set me

right.

Socrates

)ertainly, if !e can.

Theaetetus

&ell then, # thin$ the things one might learn from Theodorus are $no!ledge


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Socrates

ut the uestion, Theaetetus, !as not to !hat $no!ledge (elongs, nor ho! many the formsof $no!ledge are" for !e did not !ish to num(er them, (ut to find out !hat $no!ledge

itself really is. >r is there nothing in !hat # say?

Theaetetus3ay, you are uite right. [14Ca]

Socrates

Ta$e this e8ample. #f anyone should as$ us a(out some common e*eryday thing, for

instance, !hat clay is, and !e should reply that it is the potters= clay and the o*en ma$ers=

clay and the (ric$ma$ers= clay, should !e not (e ridiculous?

Theaetetus

@erhaps.

Socrates+es in the first place for assuming that the uestioner can understand from our ans!er !hatclay is, !hen !e say 9clay,: no matter !hether !e add 9the image%ma$ers=: [14C(] or any

other craftsmen=s. >r does anyone, do you thin$, understand the name of anything !hen he

does not $no! !hat the thing is?

Theaetetus

y no means.

Socrates

Then he does not understand $no!ledge of shoes if he does not $no! $no!ledge.

Theaetetus

3o.

Socrates

Then he !ho is ignorant of $no!ledge does not understand co((lery or any other art.

Theaetetus

That is true.

Socrates

Then it is a ridiculous ans!er to the uestion 9!hat is $no!ledge?: !hen !e gi*e the name

of some art" [14Cc] for !e gi*e in our ans!er something that $no!ledge (elongs to, !hen

that !as not !hat !e !ere as$ed.

Theaetetus

So it seems.


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Socrates

Secondly, !hen !e might ha*e gi*en a short, e*eryday ans!er, !e go an intermina(ledistance round" for instance, in the uestion a(out clay, the e*eryday, simple thing !ould

(e to say 9clay is earth mi8ed !ith moisture: !ithout regard to !hose clay it is.

Theaetetus#t seems easy -ust no!, Socrates, as you put it" (ut you are pro(a(ly as$ing the $ind ofthing that came up among us lately !hen [14Cd] your namesa$e, Socrates here, and # !ere

tal$ing together.

Socrates

&hat $ind of thing !as that, Theaetetus?

Theaetetus

Theodorus here !as dra!ing some figures for us in illustration of roots, sho!ing that

suares containing three suare feet and fi*e suare feet are not commensura(le in length

!ith the unit of the foot, and so, selecting each one in its turn up to the suare containingse*enteen suare feet and at that he stopped. 3o! it occurred to us, since the num(er of

roots appeared to (e infinite, to try to collect them under one name, [14Ce] (y !hich !e

could henceforth call all the roots.5

Socrates

'nd did you find such a name?

Theaetetus

# thin$ !e did. ut see if you agree.

Socrates

Spea$ on.

Theaetetus

&e di*ided all num(er into t!o classes. The one, the num(ers !hich can (e formed (y

multiplying eual factors, !e represented (y the shape of the suare and called suare oreuilateral num(ers.

Socrates

&ell done

Theaetetus

The num(ers (et!een these, such as three [14Da] and fi*e and all num(ers !hich cannot (e

formed (y multiplying eual factors, (ut only (y multiplying a greater (y a less or a less (y

a greater, and are therefore al!ays contained in uneual sides, !e represented (y the shape

of the o(long rectangle and called o(long num(ers.

Socrates

6ery good" and !hat ne8t?
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Theaetetus

'll the lines !hich form the four sides of the euilateral or suare num(ers !e calledlengths, and those !hich form the o(long num(ers !e called surds, (ecause they are not

commensura(le !ith the others [14D(] in length, (ut only in the areas of the planes !hich

they ha*e the po!er to form. 'nd similarly in the case of solids.4

Socrates

/ost e8cellent, my (oys # thin$ Theodorus !ill not (e found lia(le to an action for false

!itness.

Theaetetus

ut really, Socrates, # cannot ans!er that uestion of yours a(out $no!ledge, as !eans!ered the uestion a(out length and suare roots. 'nd yet you seem to me to !ant

something of that $ind. So Theodorus appears to (e a false !itness after all. [14Dc]

Socrates

3onsense #f he !ere praising your running and said he had ne*er met any young man !ho!as so good a runner, and then you !ere (eaten in a race (y a full gro!n man !ho held the

record, do you thin$ his praise !ould (e any less truthful?

Theaetetus

&hy, no.

Socrates

'nd do you thin$ that the disco*ery of $no!ledge, as # !as -ust no! saying, is a small

matter and not a tas$ for the *ery a(lest men?

Theaetetus

y eus, # thin$ it is a tas$ for the *ery a(lest.

Socrates

Then you must ha*e confidence in yourself, and (elie*e that Theodorus is right, [14Dd] and

try earnestly in e*ery !ay to gain an understanding of the nature of $no!ledge as !ell as ofother things.

Theaetetus

#f it is a uestion of earnestness, Socrates, the truth !ill come to light.

Socrates

&ell then


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ans!er, nor can # find anyone else !ho gi*es the $ind of ans!er you insist upon" and yet,

on the other hand, # cannot get rid of a feeling of concern a(out the matter.

Socrates

+es, you are suffering the pangs of la(or, Theaetetus, (ecause you are not empty, (ut

pregnant.

Theaetetus

# do not $no!, Socrates" # merely tell you !hat # feel. [14a]

Socrates

0a*e you then not heard, you a(surd (oy, that # am the son of a no(le and (urly mid!ife,

@haenarete?

Theaetetus

+es, # ha*e heard that.

Socrates

'nd ha*e you also heard that # practise the same art?

Theaetetus

3o, ne*er.

Socrates

ut # assure you it is true" only do not tell on me to the others" for it is not $no!n that #

possess this art. ut other people, since they do not $no! it, do not say this of me, (ut saythat # am a most eccentric person and dri*e men to distraction. 0a*e you heard that also?

[14(]

Theaetetus

+es, # ha*e.

Socrates

Shall # tell you the reason then?

Theaetetus

>h yes, do.

Socrates

Just ta$e into consideration the !hole (usiness of the mid!i*es, and you !ill understand

more easily !hat # mean. or you $no!, # suppose, that no one of them attends other

!omen !hile she is still capa(le of concei*ing and (earing (ut only those do so !ho ha*e

(ecome too old to (ear.

Theaetetus

+es, certainly.


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Socrates

They say the cause of this is 'rtemis, (ecause she, a childless goddess, has had child(irthallotted to her as her special pro*ince. 3o! it !ould seem she did not allo! [14c] (arren

!omen to (e mid!i*es, (ecause human nature is too !ea$ to acuire an art !hich deals

!ith matters of !hich it has no e8perience, (ut she ga*e the office to those !ho on account

of age !ere not (earing children, honoring them for their li$eness to herself.

Theaetetus

6ery li$ely.

Socrates

#s it not, then, also li$ely and e*en necessary, that mid!i*es should $no! (etter thananyone else !ho are pregnant and !ho are not?

Theaetetus

)ertainly.

Socrates

'nd furthermore, the mid!i*es, (y means of drugs [14d] and incantations, are a(le to

arouse the pangs of la(or and, if they !ish, to ma$e them milder, and to cause those to (ear

!ho ha*e difficulty in (earing" and they cause miscarriages if they thin$ them desira(le.

Theaetetus

That is true.

Socrates

&ell, ha*e you noticed this also a(out them, that they are the most s$illful of matchma$ers,

since they are *ery !ise in $no!ing !hat union of man and !oman !ill produce the (estpossi(le children?

Theaetetus

# do not $no! that at all.

Socrates

ut (e assured that they are prouder of this [14e] than of their s$ill in cutting the um(ilicalcord. Just consider. Ao you thin$ the $no!ledge of !hat soil is (est for each plant or seed

(elongs to the same art as the tending and har*esting of the fruits of the earth, or to

another?

Theaetetus

To the same art.

Socrates

'nd in the case of a !oman, do you thin$, my friend, that there is one art for the so!ingand another for the har*esting?


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Theaetetus

#t is not li$ely. [1Fa]

Socrates

3o" (ut (ecause there is a !rongful and unscientific !ay of (ringing men and !omen

together, !hich is called pandering, the mid!i*es, since they are !omen of dignity and!orth, a*oid matchma$ing, through fear of falling under the charge of pandering. 'nd yetthe true mid!ife is the only proper match%ma$er.

Theaetetus

#t seems so.

Socrates

So great, then, is the importance of mid!i*es" (ut their function is less important thanmine. or !omen do not, li$e my patients, (ring forth [1F(] at one time real children and

at another mere images !hich it is difficult to distinguish from the real. or if they did, the

greatest and no(lest part of the !or$ of the mid!i*es !ould (e in distinguishing (et!eenthe real and the false. Ao you not thin$ so?

Theaetetus

+es, # do.

Socrates

'll that is true of their art of mid!ifery is true also of mine, (ut mine differs from theirs in

(eing practised upon men, not !omen, and in tending their souls in la(or, not their (odies.

ut the greatest thing a(out my art is this, [1Fc] that it can test in e*ery !ay !hether the

mind of the young man is (ringing forth a mere image, an imposture, or a real and genuineoffspring. or # ha*e this in common !ith the mid!i*es7 # am sterile in point of !isdom,

and the reproach !hich has often (een (rought against me, that # uestion others (ut ma$e

no reply myself a(out anything, (ecause # ha*e no !isdom in me, is a true reproach" andthe reason of it is this7 the god compels me to act as mid!ife, (ut has ne*er allo!ed me to

(ring forth. # am, then, not at all a !ise person myself, [1Fd] nor ha*e # any !ise

in*ention, the offspring (orn of my o!n soul" (ut those !ho associate !ith me, although atfirst some of them seem *ery ignorant, yet, as our acuaintance ad*ances, all of them to

!hom the god is gracious ma$e !onderful progress, not only in their o!n opinion, (ut in

that of others as !ell. 'nd it is clear that they do this, not (ecause they ha*e e*er learned

anything from me, (ut (ecause they ha*e found in themsel*es many fair things and ha*e(rought them forth. ut the deli*ery is due to the god and me. 'nd the proof of it is this7

many (efore no!, [1Fe] (eing ignorant of this fact and thin$ing that they !ere themsel*es

the cause of their success, (ut despising me, ha*e gone a!ay from me sooner than theyought, !hether of their o!n accord or (ecause others persuaded them to do so. Then, after

they ha*e gone a!ay, they ha*e miscarried thenceforth on account of e*il companionship,

and the offspring !hich they had (rought forth through my assistance they ha*e reared so(adly that they ha*e lost it" they ha*e considered impostures and images of more

importance than the truth, and at last it !as e*ident to themsel*es, as !ell as to others, that

they !ere ignorant. >ne of these !as [11a] 'risteides, the son of Gysimachus, and thereare *ery many more. &hen such men come (ac$ and (eg me, as they do, !ith !onderful


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eagerness to let them -oin me again, the spiritual monitor that comes to me for(ids me to

associate !ith some of them, (ut allo!s me to con*erse !ith others, and these again ma$eprogress. 3o! those !ho associate !ith me are in this matter also li$e !omen in child(irth"

they are in pain and are full of trou(le night and day, much more than are the !omen" and

my art can arouse this pain and cause it to cease. &ell, that is !hat happens to them. [11(]

ut in some cases, Theaetetus, !hen they do not seem to me to (e e8actly pregnant, since #see that they ha*e no need of me, # act !ith perfect good!ill as match%ma$er and, under

Hod, # guess *ery successfully !ith !hom they can associate profita(ly, and # ha*e handed

o*er many of them to @rodicus, and many to other !ise and inspired men. 3o! # ha*e saidall this to you at such length, my dear (oy, (ecause # suspect that you, as you yourself

(elie*e, are in pain (ecause you are pregnant !ith something !ithin you. 'pply, then, to

me, remem(ering that # am the son of a mid!ife [11c] and ha*e myself a mid!ife=s gifts,and do your (est to ans!er the uestions # as$ as # as$ them. 'nd if, !hen # ha*e e8amined

any of the things you say, it should pro*e that # thin$ it is a mere image and not real, and

therefore uietly ta$e it from you and thro! it a!ay, do not (e angry as !omen are !hen

they are depri*ed of their first offspring. or many, my dear friend, (efore this ha*e gotinto such a state of mind to!ards me that they are actually ready to (ite me, if # ta$e some

foolish notion a!ay from them, and they do not (elie*e that # do this in $indness, [11d]

since they are far from $no!ing that no god is un$ind to mortals, and that # do nothing ofthis sort from un$indness, either, and that it is uite out of the uestion for me to allo! an

imposture or to destroy the true. 'nd so, Theaetetus, (egin again and try to tell us !hat

$no!ledge is. 'nd ne*er say that you are una(le to do so" for if Hod !ills it and gi*es youcourage, you !ill (e a(le.

Theaetetus

&ell then, Socrates, since you are so urgent it !ould (e disgraceful for anyone not to e8ert

himself in e*ery !ay [11e] to say !hat he can. # thin$, then, that he !ho $no!s anythingpercei*es that !hich he $no!s, and, as it appears at present, $no!ledge is nothing else than

perception.

Socrates

Hood E8cellent, my (oy That is the !ay one ought to spea$ out. ut come no!, let use8amine your utterance together, and see !hether it is a real offspring or a mere !ind%egg.

@erception, you say, is $no!ledge?

Theaetetus

+es.

Socrates

'nd, indeed, if # may *enture to say so, it is not a (ad description of $no!ledge [12a] that

you ha*e gi*en, (ut one !hich @rotagoras also used to gi*e. >nly, he has said the same

thing in a different !ay. or he says some!here that man is 9the measure of all things, ofthe e8istence of the things that are and the non%e8istence of the things that are not.: +ou

ha*e read that, # suppose?

Theaetetus

+es, # ha*e read it often.


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Socrates

&ell, is not this a(out !hat he means, that indi*idual things are for me such as they appearto me, and for you in turn such as they appear to you


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Socrates

y the Hraces # !onder if @rotagoras, !ho !as a *ery !ise man, did not utter this dar$saying to the common herd li$e oursel*es, and tell the truthin secret to his pupils. [12d]

Theaetetus

&hy, Socrates, !hat do you mean (y that?

Socrates

# !ill tell you and it is not a (ad description, either, that nothing is one and in*aria(le, andyou could not rightly ascri(e any uality !hatsoe*er to anything, (ut if you call it large it

!ill also appear to (e small, and light if you call it hea*y, and e*erything else in the same

!ay, since nothing !hate*er is one, either a particular thing or of a particular uality" (ut itis out of mo*ement and motion and mi8ture !ith one another that all those things (ecome

!hich !e !rongly say 9are:

[12e] 'nd on this su(-ect all the philosophers, e8cept @armenides, may (e marshalled inone liner are not these the source of fire? [15(]

Theaetetus

+es, they are.

Socrates

'nd furthermore, the animal $ingdom is sprung from these same sources.

Theaetetus

>f course.


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Socrates

&ell, then, is not the (odily ha(it destroyed (y rest and idleness, and preser*ed, generallyspea$ing, (y gymnastic e8ercises and motions?

Theaetetus

+es.

Socrates

'nd !hat of the ha(it of the soul? Aoes not the soul acuire information and is it notpreser*ed and made (etter through learning and practice, !hich are motions, !hereas

through rest, !hich is !ant of practice and of study, [15c] it learns nothing and forgets

!hat it has learned?

Theaetetus

)ertainly.

SocratesThen the good, (oth for the soul and for the (ody, is motion, and rest is the opposite?

Theaetetus

'pparently.

Socrates

3o! shall # go on and mention to you also !indless air, calm sea, and all that sort of thing,

and say that stillness causes decay and destruction and that the opposite (ringspreser*ation? 'nd shall # add to this the all%compelling and cro!ning argument that 0omer

(y 9the golden chain:Brefers to nothing else than the sun, [15d] and means that so long as

the hea*ens and the sun go round e*erything e8ists and is preser*ed, among (oth gods andmen, (ut if the motion should stop, as if (ound fast, e*erything !ould (e destroyed and

!ould, as the saying is, (e turned upside do!n?

Theaetetus

+es, Socrates, # thin$ he means !hat you say he does.

Socrates

Then, my friend, you must apply the doctrine in this !ay7 first as concerns *ision, the color

that you call !hite is not to (e ta$en as something separate outside of your eyes, nor yet as

something inside of them" and you must not assign any place to it, [15e] for then it !ouldat once (e in a definite position and stationary and !ould ha*e no part in the process of

(ecoming.

Theaetetus

ut !hat do you mean?

Socrates

Get us stic$ close to the statement !e made a moment ago, and assume that nothing e8ists


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(y itself as in*aria(ly one7 then it !ill (e apparent that (lac$ or !hite or any other color

!hatsoe*er is the result of the impact of the eye upon the appropriate motion, and thereforethat !hich !e call color [14a] !ill (e in each instance neither that !hich impinges nor that

!hich is impinged upon, (ut something (et!een, !hich has occurred, peculiar to each

indi*idual. >r !ould you maintain that each color appears to a dog, or any other animal you

please, -ust as it does to you?

Theaetetus

3o, (y eus, # !ouldn=t.

Socrates

&ell, does anything !hatsoe*er appear the same to any other man as to you? 're you sureof this? >r are you not much more con*inced that nothing appears the same e*en to you,

(ecause you yourself are ne*er e8actly the same?

Theaetetus

+es, # am much more con*inced of the last.

Socrates

Then, if that !ith !hich # compare myself in si;e, or !hich # touch, [14(] !ere really

large or !hite or hot, it !ould ne*er ha*e (ecome different (y coming in contact !ith

something different, !ithout itself changing" and if, on the other hand, that !hich did thecomparing or the touching !ere really large or !hite or hot, it !ould not ha*e (ecome

different !hen something different approached it or !as affected in some !ay (y it,

!ithout (eing affected in some !ay itself. or no!adays, my friend, !e find oursel*esrather easily forced to ma$e e8traordinary and a(surd statements, as @rotagoras and

e*eryone !ho underta$es to agree !ith him !ould say.

Theaetetus

&hat do you mean? &hat statements? [14c]

Socrates

Ta$e a little e8ample and you !ill $no! all # ha*e in mind. Hi*en si8 dice, for instance, if

you compare four !ith them, !e say that they are more than the four, half as many again,

(ut if you compare t!el*e !ith them, !e say they are less, half as many" and any otherstatement !ould (e inadmissi(le" or !ould you admit any other?

Theaetetus

3ot #.

Socrates

&ell then, if @rotagoras, or anyone else, as$ you, 9Theaetetus, can anything (ecome greater

or more in any other !ay than (y (eing increased?: !hat reply !ill you ma$e?

Theaetetus

#f # am to say !hat # thin$, Socrates, !ith reference to [14d] the present uestion, # should


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say 9no,: (ut if # consider the earlier uestion, # should say 9yes,: for fear of contradicting

myself.

Socrates

Hood, (y 0era E8cellent, my friend ut apparently, if you ans!er 9yes: it !ill (e in the

Euripidean spirit" for our tongue !ill (e uncon*inced, (ut not our mind.

C

Theaetetus

True.

Socrates

&ell, if you and # !ere cle*er and !ise and had found out e*erything a(out the mind, !e

should henceforth spend the rest of our time testing each other out of the fulness of our

!isdom, [14e] rushing together li$e sophists in a sophistical com(at, (attering each other=sarguments !ith counter arguments. ut, as it is, since !e are ordinary people, !e shall !ish

in the first place to loo$ into the real essence of our thoughts and see !hether they

harmoni;e !ith one another or not at all.

Theaetetus

)ertainly that is !hat # should li$e.

Socrates

'nd so should #. ut since this is the case, and !e ha*e plenty of time, shall !e not uietly,!ithout any impatience, (ut truly e8amining oursel*es, [1a] consider again the nature of

these appearances !ithin us? 'nd as !e consider them, # shall say, # thin$, first, that

nothing can e*er (ecome more or less in si;e or num(er, so long as it remains eual to

itself. #s it not so?

Theaetetus

+es.

Socrates

'nd secondly, that anything to !hich nothing is added and from !hich nothing issu(tracted, is neither increased nor diminished, (ut is al!ays eual.

Theaetetus

)ertainly. [1(]

Socrates

'nd should !e not say thirdly, that !hat !as not pre*iously could not after!ards (e

!ithout (ecoming and ha*ing (ecome?

Theaetetus

+es, # agree.


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Socrates

These three assumptions contend !ith one another in our minds !hen !e tal$ a(out thedice, or !hen !e say that #, !ho do not, at my age, either increase in si;e or diminish, am

in the course of a year first larger than you, !ho are young, and after!ards smaller, !hen

nothing has (een ta$en from my si;e, [1c] (ut you ha*e gro!n. or # am, it seems,

after!ards !hat # !as not (efore, and # ha*e not (ecome so" for it is impossi(le to ha*e(ecome !ithout (ecoming, and !ithout losing anything of my si;e # could not (ecome

smaller. 'nd there are countless myriads of such contradictions, if !e are to accept these

that # ha*e mentioned. +ou follo! me, # ta$e it, Theaetetus, for # thin$ you are not ne! atsuch things.

Theaetetus

y the gods, Socrates, # am lost in !onder !hen # thin$ of all these things, and sometimes

!hen # regard them it really ma$es my head s!im. [1d]

Socrates

Theodorus seems to (e a pretty good guesser a(out your nature. or this feeling of !ondersho!s that you are a philosopher, since !onder is the only (eginning of philosophy, and he

!ho said that #ris !as the child of ThaumasDmade a good genealogy. ut do you (egin tounderstand !hy these things are so, according to the doctrine !e attri(ute to @rotagoras, or

do you not as yet?

Theaetetus

3ot yet, # thin$.

Socrates

'nd !ill you (e grateful to me if # help you [1e] to search out the hidden truth of the

thought of a famous man or, # should say, of famous men?

Theaetetus

>f course # shall (e grateful, *ery grateful.

Socrates

Goo$ round and see that none of the uninitiated is listening. The uninitiated are those !ho

thin$ nothing is e8cept !hat they can grasp firmly !ith their hands, and !ho deny thee8istence of actions and generation and all that is in*isi(le.

Theaetetus

Truly, Socrates, those you spea$ of are *ery stu((orn [1Ba] and per*erse mortals.

Socrates

So they are, my (oy, uite !ithout culture. ut others are more cle*er, !hose secret

doctrines # am going to disclose to you. or them the (eginning, upon !hich all the things

!e !ere -ust no! spea$ing of depend, is the assumption that e*erything is real motion andthat there is nothing (esides this, (ut that there are t!o $inds of motion, each infinite in the

num(er of its manifestations, and of these $inds one has an acti*e, the other a passi*e force.

rom the union and friction of these t!o are (orn offspring, infinite in num(er, (ut al!ays


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t!ins, the o(-ect of sense [1B(] and the sense !hich is al!ays (orn and (rought forth

together !ith the o(-ect of sense. 3o! !e gi*e the senses names li$e these7 sight andhearing and smell, and the sense of cold and of heat, and pleasures and pains and desires

and fears and so forth. Those that ha*e names are *ery numerous, and those that are

unnamed are innumera(le. 3o! the class of o(-ects of sense is a$in to each of these" all

sorts of colors are a$in to all sorts of acts of *ision, and in the same !ay sounds to acts ofhearing, [1Bc] and the other o(-ects of sense spring forth a$in to the other senses. &hat

does this tale mean for us, Theaetetus, !ith reference to !hat !as said (efore? Ao you see?

Theaetetus

3ot uite, Socrates.

Socrates

Just listen" perhaps !e can finish the tale. #t means, of course, that all these things are, as

!e !ere saying, in motion, and their motion has in it either s!iftness or slo!ness. 3o! theslo! element $eeps its motion in the same place and directed to!ards such things as dra!

near it, and indeed it is in this !ay that it (egets. [1Bd] ut the things (egotten in this !ayare uic$er" for they mo*e from one place to another, and their motion is naturally from

one place to another. 3o! !hen the eye and some appropriate o(-ect !hich approaches(eget !hiteness and the corresponding perception

(y either of them going to anything else


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Theaetetus

# don=t $no!, Socrates" (esides, # can=t tell a(out you, either, !hether you are preachingthem (ecause you (elie*e them or to test me.

Socrates

+ou forget, my friend, that # myself $no! nothing a(out such things, and claim none ofthem as mine, (ut am incapa(le of (earing them and am merely acting as a mid!ife to you,and for that reason am uttering incantations and gi*ing you a taste of each of the

philosophical theories, [1Cd] until # may help to (ring your o!n opinion to light. 'nd

!hen it is (rought to light, # !ill e8amine it and see !hether it is a mere !ind%egg or a real

offspring. So (e (ra*e and patient, and in good and manly fashion tell !hat you thin$ inreply to my uestions.

Theaetetus

6ery !ell" as$ them.

SocratesThen say once more !hether the doctrine pleases you that nothing is, (ut is al!ays

(ecoming


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Socrates

Aon=t you remem(er, either, the similar dispute a(out these errors, especially a(out sleepingand !a$ing?

Theaetetus

&hat dispute?

Socrates

>ne !hich # fancy you ha*e often heard. The uestion is as$ed, !hat proof you could gi*eif anyone should as$ us no!, at the present moment, !hether !e are asleep and our

thoughts are a dream, or !hether !e are a!a$e [1Dc] and tal$ing !ith each other in a

!a$ing condition.

Theaetetus

Ieally, Socrates, # don=t see !hat proof can (e gi*en" for there is an e8act correspondence

in all particulars, as (et!een the strophe and antistrophe of a choral song. Ta$e, for

instance, the con*ersation !e ha*e -ust had7 there is nothing to pre*ent us from imaginingin our sleep also that !e are carrying on this con*ersation !ith each other, and !hen in a

dream !e imagine that !e are relating dreams, the li$eness (et!een the one tal$ and the

other is remar$a(le.

Socrates

So you see it is not hard to dispute the point, since it is e*en open to dispute !hether !e are

a!a$e or in a dream. [1Dd] 3o! since the time during !hich !e are asleep is eual to that

during !hich !e are a!a$e, in each state our spirit contends that the sem(lances thatappear to it at any time are certainly true, so that for half the time !e say that this is true,

and for half the time the other, and !e maintain each !ith eual confidence.

Theaetetus

)ertainly.

Socrates

'nd may not, then, the same (e said a(out insanity and the other diseases, e8cept that the

time is not eual?

Theaetetus

+es.

Socrates

&ell, then, shall truth (e determined (y the length or shortness of time? [1De]

Theaetetus

That !ould (e a(surd in many !ays.

Socrates

ut can you sho! clearly in any other !ay !hich of the t!o sets of opinions is true?


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Theaetetus

# do not thin$ # can.

Socrates

Gisten, then, !hile # tell you !hat !ould (e said a(out them (y those !ho maintain that

!hat appears at any time is true for him to !hom it appears. They (egin, # imagine, (yas$ing this uestion7 9Theaetetus, can that !hich is !holly other ha*e in any !ay the sameuality as its alternati*e? 'nd !e must not assume that the thing in uestion is partially the

same and partially other, (ut !holly other.:

Theaetetus

#t is impossi(le for it to (e the same in anything, either in uality [1a] or in any otherrespect !hatsoe*er, !hen it is !holly other.

Socrates

/ust !e not, then, necessarily agree that such a thing is also unli$e?

Theaetetus

#t seems so to me.

Socrates

Then if anything happens to (ecome li$e or unli$e anythingTheaetetus

&e must.

Socrates

&ell, !e said (efore, did !e not, that the acti*e elements !ere many


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Theaetetus

&hen you say 9Socrates in illness: do you mean to compare that Socrates as a !hole !ithSocrates in health as a !hole?

Socrates

+ou understand perfectly" that is -ust !hat # mean.

Theaetetus

nli$e, # imagine.

Socrates

'nd therefore other, inasmuch as unli$e?

Theaetetus

3ecessarily.

Socrates'nd you !ould say the same of Socrates asleep or in any of the other states [1c] !e

enumerated -ust no!?

Theaetetus

+es.

Socrates

Then each of those elements !hich (y the la! of their nature act upon something else, !ill,

!hen it gets hold of Socrates in health, find me one o(-ect to act upon, and !hen it getshold of me in illness, another?

Theaetetus

0o! can it help it?

Socrates

'nd so, in the t!o cases, that acti*e element and #, !ho am the passi*e element, shall eachproduce a different o(-ect?

Theaetetus

>f course.

Socrates

So, then, !hen # am in health and drin$ !ine, it seems pleasant and s!eet to me?

Theaetetus

+es.

Socrates

The reason is, in fact, that according to the principles !e accepted a !hile ago, [1d] the


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acti*e and passi*e elements produce s!eetness and perception, (oth of !hich are

simultaneously mo*ing from one place to another, and the perception, !hich comes fromthe passi*e element, ma$es the tongue percepti*e, and the s!eetness, !hich comes from the

!ine and per*ades it, passes o*er and ma$es the !ine (oth to (e and to seem s!eet to the

tongue that is in health.

Theaetetus

)ertainly, such are the principles !e accepted a !hile ago.

Socrates

ut !hen it gets hold of me in illness, in the first place, it really doesn=t get hold of the

same man, does it? or he to !hom it comes is certainly unli$e.

Theaetetus

True. [1e]

SocratesTherefore the union of the Socrates !ho is ill and the draught of !ine produces otherresults7 in the tongue the sensation or perception of (itterness, and in the !ine


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must (ecome so to someone, [1BF(] !hen it (ecomes s!eet or (itter or the li$e" for to

(ecome s!eet, (ut s!eet to no one, is impossi(le.

Theaetetus

@erfectly true.

Socrates

The result, then, # thin$, is that !e Kthe acti*e and the passi*e elementsL are or (ecome,

!hiche*er is the case, in relation to one another, since !e are (ound to one another (y theine*ita(le la! of our (eing, (ut to nothing else, not e*en to oursel*es. The result, then, is

that !e are (ound to one another" and so if a man says anything 9is,: he must say it is to or

of or in relation to something, and similarly if he says it 9(ecomes:" (ut he must not say[1BFc] it is or (ecomes a(solutely, nor can he accept such a statement from anyone else.

That is the meaning of the doctrine !e ha*e (een descri(ing.

Theaetetus

+es, uite so, Socrates.

Socrates

Then, since that !hich acts on me is to me and to me only, it is also the case that # percei*e

it, and # only?

Theaetetus

>f course.

Socrates

Then to me my perception is true" for in each case it is al!ays part of my (eing" and # am,

as @rotagoras says, the -udge of the e8istence of the things that are to me and of the non%e8istence of those that are not to me.

Theaetetus

So it seems. [1BFd]

Socrates

0o!, then, if # am an infalli(le -udge and my mind ne*er stum(les in regard to the thingsthat are or that (ecome, can # fail to $no! that !hich # percei*e?

Theaetetus

+ou cannot possi(ly fail.

Socrates

Therefore you !ere uite right in saying that $no!ledge is nothing else than perception,

and there is complete identity (et!een the doctrine of 0omer and 0eracleitus and all their

follo!ers


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that this is, so to spea$, your ne!%(orn child and the result of my mid!ifery? >r !hat shall

!e say?

Theaetetus

&e must say that, Socrates.

Socrates

&ell, !e ha*e at last managed to (ring this forth, !hate*er it turns out to (e" and no! that

it is (orn, !e must in *ery truth perform the rite of running round !ith it in a circle


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my friend, !as @rotagoras !ise, so that he could rightly (e thought !orthy [1B1e] to (e the

teacher of other men and to (e !ell paid, and !hy !ere !e ignorant creatures and o(ligedto go to school to him, if each person is the measure of his o!n !isdom? /ust !e not

(elie*e that @rotagoras !as 9playing to the gallery: in saying this? # say nothing of the

ridicule that # and my science of mid!ifery deser*e in that case,


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pro(a(ility, he !ould (e of no account at all. So you and Theodorus had (etter consider

!hether you !ill accept arguments founded on plausi(ility and pro(a(ilities in [1B5a] suchimportant matters.:

Theaetetus

That !ould not (e right, Socrates" neither you nor !e !ould thin$ so.

Socrates

'pparently, then, you and Theodorus mean !e must loo$ at the matter in a different !ay.

Theaetetus

+es, certainly in a different !ay.

Socrates

&ell, then, let us loo$ at it in this !ay, raising the uestion !hether $no!ledge is after allthe same as perception, or different. or that is the o(-ect of all our discussion, and it !as to

ans!er that uestion than !e stirred up all these strange doctrines, !as it not?

Theaetetus

/ost assuredly. [1B5(]

Socrates

Shall !e then agree that all that !e percei*e (y sight or hearing !e $no!? or instance,

shall !e say that (efore ha*ing learned the language of foreigners !e do not hear them

!hen they spea$, or that !e (oth hear and $no! !hat they say? 'nd again, if !e do not$no! the letters, shall !e maintain that !e do not see them !hen !e loo$ at them or that if

!e really see them !e $no! them?

Theaetetus

&e shall say, Socrates, that !e $no! -ust so much of them as !e hear or see7 in the case ofthe letters, !e (oth see and $no! the form and color, [1B5c] and in the spo$en language !e

(oth hear and at the same time $no! the higher and lo!er notes of the *oice" (ut !e do not

percei*e through sight or hearing, and !e do not $no!, !hat the grammarians andinterpreters teach a(out them.

Socrates

irst%rate, Theaetetus and it is a pity to dispute that, for # !ant you to gro!. ut loo$ out

for another trou(le that is yonder coming to!ards us, and see ho! !e can repel it.

Theaetetus

&hat is it?

Socrates

#t is li$e this7 #f anyone should as$, 9#s it possi(le, if a man has e*er $no!n a thing and stillhas [1B5d] and preser*es a memory of that thing, that he does not, at the time !hen he

remem(ers, $no! that *ery thing !hich he remem(ers?: # seem to (e pretty long !inded"


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(ut # merely !ant to as$ if a man !ho has learned a thing does not $no! it !hen he

remem(ers it.

Theaetetus

>f course he does, Socrates" for !hat you suggest !ould (e monstrous.

Socrates

'm # cra;y, then? Goo$ here. Ao you not say that seeing is percei*ing and that sight is

perception?

Theaetetus

# do.

Socrates

Then, according to !hat !e ha*e -ust said, the man !ho has seen a thing has acuired$no!ledge [1B5e] of that !hich he has seen?

Theaetetus

+es.

Socrates

&ell, then, do you not admit that there is such a thing as memory?

Theaetetus

+es.

Socrates

/emory of nothing or of something?

Theaetetus

>f something, surely.

Socrates

>f things he has learned and percei*edf course.

Socrates' man sometimes remem(ers !hat he has seen, does he not?

Theaetetus

0e does.

Socrates

E*en !hen he shuts his eyes, or does he forget if he does that?


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Theaetetus

#t !ould (e a(surd to say that, Socrates. [1B4a]

Socrates

&e must, though, if !e are to maintain our pre*ious argument" other!ise, it is all up !ith

it.

Theaetetus

# too, (y eus, ha*e my suspicions, (ut # don=t fully understand you. Tell me ho! it is.

Socrates

This is ho! it is7 he !ho sees has acuired $no!ledge, !e say, of that !hich he has seen"

for it is agreed that sight and perception and $no!ledge are all the same.

Theaetetus

)ertainly.

Socrates

ut he !ho has seen and has acuired $no!ledge of !hat he sa!, if he shuts his eyes,

remem(ers it, (ut does not see it. #s that right?

Theaetetus

+es. [1B4(]

Socrates

ut 9does not see: is the same as 9does not $no!,: if it is true that seeing is $no!ing.

TheaetetusTrue.

Socrates

Then this is our result. &hen a man has acuired $no!ledge of a thing and still remem(ers

it, he does not $no! it, since he does not see it" (ut !e said that !ould (e a monstrousconclusion.

Theaetetus

6ery true.

Socrates

So, e*idently, !e reach an impossi(le result if !e say that $no!ledge and perception are

the same.

Theaetetus

So it seems.


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Socrates

Then !e must say they are different.

Theaetetus

# suppose so. [1B4c]

Socrates

Then !hat can $no!ledge (e? &e must, apparently, (egin our discussion all o*er again.

'nd yet, Theaetetus, !hat are !e on the point of doing?

Theaetetus

'(out !hat?

Socrates

#t seems to me that !e are (eha*ing li$e a !orthless game%coc$" (efore !inning the *ictory!e ha*e leapt a!ay from our argument and (egun to cro!.

Theaetetus

0o! so?

Socrates

&e seem to (e acting li$e professional de(aters" !e ha*e (ased our agreements on the meresimilarity of !ords and are satisfied to ha*e got the (etter of the argument in such a !ay,

and !e do not see that !e, !ho claim to (e, not contestants for a pri;e, (ut lo*ers of

!isdom, [1B4d] are doing -ust !hat those ingenious persons do.

Theaetetus

# do not yet understand !hat you mean.

Socrates

&ell, # !ill try to ma$e my thought clear. &e as$ed, you recollect, !hether a man !ho haslearned something and remem(ers it does not $no! it. &e sho!ed first that the one !ho

has seen and then shuts his eyes remem(ers, although he does not see, and then !e sho!ed

that he does not $no!, although at the same time he remem(ers" (ut this, !e said, !as

impossi(le. 'nd so the @rotagorean tale !as (rought to naught, and yours also a(out theidentity of $no!ledge and perception. [1B4e]

Theaetetus

E*idently.

Socrates

#t !ould not (e so, # fancy, my friend, if the father of the first of the t!o tales !ere ali*e" he

!ould ha*e had a good deal to say in its defence. ut he is dead, and !e are a(using the

orphan. &hy, e*en the guardians !hom @rotagoras left


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Theodorus

Ao so, for it is not #, Socrates, (ut rather [1Ba] )allias the son of 0ipponicus, !ho is theguardian of his children. 's for me, # turned rather too soon from a(stract speculations to

geometry. 0o!e*er, # shall (e grateful to you if you come to his assistance.

SocratesHood, Theodorus 3o! see ho! # shall help him" for a man might find himself in*ol*ed instill !orse inconsistencies than those in !hich !e found oursel*es -ust no!, if he did not

pay attention to the terms !hich !e generally use in assent and denial. Shall # e8plain this

to you, or only to Theaetetus?

Theodorus

To (oth of us, (ut let the younger ans!er" [1B(] for he !ill (e less disgraced if he is

discomfited.

Socrates

6ery !ell" no! # am going to as$ the most frightfully difficult uestion of all. #t runs, #(elie*e, something li$e this7 #s it possi(le for a person, if he $no!s a thing, at the same time

not to $no! that !hich he $no!s?

Theodorus

3o!, then, !hat shall !e ans!er, Theaetetus?

Theaetetus

#t is impossi(le, # should thin$.

Socrates

3ot if you ma$e seeing and $no!ing identical. or !hat !ill you do !ith a uestion from!hich there is no escape, (y !hich you are, as the saying is, caught in a pit, !hen your

ad*ersary, una(ashed, puts his hand o*er one of your eyes and as$s [1Bc] if you see his

cloa$ !ith the eye that is co*ered?

Theaetetus

# shall say, # thin$, 93ot !ith that eye, (ut !ith the other.:

Socrates

Then you see and do not see the same thing at the same time?

Theaetetus

'fter a fashion.

Socrates

9That,: he !ill reply, 9is not at all !hat # !ant, and # did not as$ a(out the fashion, (ut

!hether you (oth $no! and do not $no! the same thing. 3o! manifestly you see that!hich you do not see. ut you ha*e agreed that seeing is $no!ing and not seeing is not

$no!ing. 6ery !ell" from all this, rec$on out !hat the result is.: [1Bd]


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Theaetetus

&ell, # rec$on out that the result is the contrary of my hypothesis.

Socrates

'nd perhaps, my fine fello!, more trou(les of the same sort might ha*e come upon you, if

anyone as$ed you further uestions

of !ords, might ha*e lain in !ait and as$ed you, !hen you said that $no!ledge and

perception !ere the same thing" he !ould ha*e charged do!n upon hearing and smelling

and such senses, [1Be] and !ould ha*e argued persistently and unceasingly until you !erefilled !ith admiration of his greatly desired !isdom and !ere ta$en in his toils, and then,

after su(duing and (inding you he !ould at once proceed to (argain !ith you for such

ransom as might (e agreed upon (et!een you. &hat argument, then, you might as$, !ill@rotagoras produce to strengthen his forces? Shall !e try to carry on the discussion?

Theaetetusy all means.

Socrates

0e !ill, # fancy, say all that !e ha*e said in his defence [1BBa] and then !ill close !ith us,

saying contemptuously, 9>ur estima(le Socrates here frightened a little (oy (y as$ing if it

!as possi(le for one and the same person to remem(er and at the same time not to $no!

one and the same thing, and !hen the child in his fright said =no,= (ecause he could notforesee !hat !ould result, Socrates made poor me a laughing%stoc$ in his tal$. ut, you

slo*enly Socrates, the facts stand thus7 !hen you e8amine any doctrine of mine (y the

method of uestioning, if the person !ho is uestioned ma$es such replies as # should ma$eand comes to grief, then # am refuted, [1BB(] (ut if his replies are uite different, then the

person uestioned is refuted, not #. Ta$e this e8ample. Ao you suppose you could get

any(ody to admit that the memory a man has of a past feeling he no longer feels is anythingli$e the feeling at the time !hen he !as feeling it? ar from it. >r that he !ould refuse to

admit that it is possi(le for one and the same person to $no! and not to $no! one and the

same thing? >r if he !ere afraid to admit this, !ould he e*er admit that a person !ho has(ecome unli$e is the same as (efore he (ecame unli$e? #n fact, if !e are to (e on our guard

against such *er(al entanglements, !ould he admit that a person is one at all, and not many,

!ho (ecome infinite in num(er, [1BBc] if the process of (ecoming different continues? ut,

my dear fello!,: he !ill say, 9attac$ my real doctrines in a more generous manner, andpro*e, if you can, that perceptions, !hen they come, or (ecome, to each of us, are not

indi*idual, or that, if they are indi*idual, !hat appears to each one !ould not, for all that,

(ecome to that one alone


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change and ma$es good things appear and (e to him. [1BBe] 'nd, moreo*er, do not lay too

much stress upon the !ords of my argument, (ut get a clearer understanding of mymeaning from !hat # am going to say. Iecall to your mind !hat !as said (efore, that his

food appears and is (itter to the sic$ man, (ut appears and is the opposite of (itter to the

man in health. 3o! neither of these t!o is to (e made !iser than he is


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man or state. 'nd on the (asis of that you !ill consider the uestion !hether $no!ledge

and perception are the same or different, instead of doing as you did a !hile ago, using asyour (asis [1BDc] the ordinary meaning of names and !ords, !hich most people per*ert in

hapha;ard !ays and there(y cause all sorts of perple8ity in one another.: Such, Theodorus,

is the help # ha*e furnished your friend to the (est of my a(ility


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Theodorus

#t is not easy, Socrates, for anyone to sit (eside you and not (e forced to gi*e an account ofhimself and it !as foolish of me -ust no! to say you !ould e8cuse me and !ould not

o(lige me, as the Gacedaemonians do, to strip" you seem to me to ta$e rather after Sciron. 11

or the Gacedaemonians [1B(] tell people to go a!ay or else strip, (ut you seem to me to

play rather the role of 'ntaeus" for you do not let anyone go !ho approaches you until youha*e forced him to strip and !restle !ith you in argument.

Socrates

+our comparison !ith Sciron and 'ntaeus pictures my complaint admira(ly" only # am a

more stu((orn com(atant than they" for many a 0eracles and many a Theseus, strong menof !ords, ha*e fallen in !ith me and (ela(ored me mightily, (ut still # do not desist, such a

terri(le lo*e [1Bc] of this $ind of e8ercise has ta$en hold on me. So, no! that it is your

turn, do not refuse to try a (out !ith me" it !ill (e good for (oth of us.

Theodorus

# say no more. Gead on as you li$e. /ost assuredly # must endure !hatsoe*er fate you spinfor me, and su(mit to interrogation. 0o!e*er, # shall not (e a(le to lea*e myself in your

hands (eyond the point you propose.

Socrates

E*en that is enough. 'nd please (e especially careful that !e do not inad*ertently gi*e a

playful turn [1Bd] to our argument and some(ody reproach us again for it.

Theodorus

Iest assured that # !ill try so far as in me lies.

Socrates

Get us, therefore, first ta$e up the same uestion as (efore, and let us see !hether !e !ere

right or !rong in (eing displeased and finding fault !ith the doctrine (ecause it made eachindi*idual self%sufficient in !isdom. @rotagoras granted that some persons e8celled others

in respect to the (etter and the !orse, and these he said !ere !ise, did he not?

Theodorus

+es.

Socrates

3o! if he himself !ere present and could agree to this, instead of [1Be] our ma$ing the

concession for him in our effort to help him, there !ould (e no need of ta$ing up the

uestion again or of reinforcing his argument. ut, as it is, perhaps it might (e said that !eha*e no authority to ma$e the agreement for him" therefore it is (etter to ma$e the

agreement still clearer on this particular point" for it ma$es a good deal of difference

!hether it is so or not.

Theodorus

That is true.
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Socrates

Get us then get the agreement in as concise a form as possi(le, not through others, [1CFa](ut from his o!n statement.

Theodorus

0o!?

Socrates

#n this !ay7 0e says, does he not? 9that !hich appears to each person really is to him to!hom it appears.:

Theodorus

+es, that is !hat he says.

Socrates

&ell then, @rotagoras, !e also utter the opinions of a man, or rather, of all men, and !e say

that there is no one !ho does not thin$ himself !iser than others in some respects andothers !iser than himself in other respects" for instance, in times of greatest danger, !henpeople are distressed in !ar or (y diseases or at sea, they regard their commanders as gods

and e8pect them to (e their sa*iors, [1CF(] though they e8cel them in nothing e8cept

$no!ledge. 'nd all the !orld of men is, # dare say, full of people see$ing teachers and

rulers for themsel*es and the animals and for human acti*ities, and, on the other hand, ofpeople !ho consider themsel*es ualified to teach and ualified to rule. 'nd in all these

instances !e must say that men themsel*es (elie*e that !isdom and ignorance e8ist in the

!orld of men, must !e not?

Theodorus

+es, !e must.

Socrates

'nd therefore they thin$ that !isdom is true thin$ing and ignorance false opinion, do theynot? [1CFc]

Theodorus

>f course.

Socrates

&ell then, @rotagoras, !hat shall !e do a(out the doctrine? Shall !e say that the opinions!hich men ha*e are al!ays true, or sometimes true and sometimes false? or the result of

either statement is that their opinions are not al!ays true, (ut may (e either true or false.

Just thin$, Theodorus, !ould any follo!er of @rotagoras, or you yourself care to contendthat no person thin$s that another is ignorant and has false opinions?

Theodorus

3o, that is incredi(le, Socrates. [1CFd]


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Socrates

'nd yet this is the predicament to !hich the doctrine that man is the measure of all thingsine*ita(ly leads.

Theodorus

0o! so?

Socrates

&hen you ha*e come to a decision in your o!n mind a(out something, and declare youropinion to me, this opinion is, according to his doctrine, true to you" let us grant that" (ut

may not the rest of us sit in -udgement on your decision, or do !e al!ays -udge that your

opinion is true? Ao not myriads of men on each occasion oppose their opinions to yours,(elie*ing that your -udgement and (elief are false? [1CFe]

Theodorus

+es, (y eus, Socrates, countless myriads in truth, as 0omer12says, and they gi*e me all

the trou(le in the !orld.

Socrates

&ell then, shall !e say that in such a case your opinion is true to you (ut false to the

myriads?

Theodorus

That seems to (e the ine*ita(le deduction.

Socrates

'nd !hat of @rotagoras himself? #f neither he himself thought, nor people in general thin$,

as indeed they do not, that man is the measure of all things, is it not ine*ita(le that the9truth: !hich he !rote is true to no one? ut if he himself thought it !as true, [1C1a] and

people in general do not agree !ith him, in the first place you $no! that it is -ust so much

more false than true as the num(er of those !ho do not (elie*e it is greater than the num(erof those !ho do.

Theodorus

3ecessarily, if it is to (e true or false according to each indi*idual opinion.

Socrates

Secondly, it in*ol*es this, !hich is a *ery pretty result" he concedes a(out his o!n opinionthe truth of the opinion of those !ho disagree !ith him and thin$ that his opinion is false,

since he grants that the opinions of all men are true.

Theodorus

)ertainly. [1C1(]
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Socrates

Then !ould he not (e conceding that his o!n opinion is false, if he grants that the opinionof those !ho thin$ he is in error is true?

Theodorus

3ecessarily.

Socrates

ut the others do not concede that they are in error, do they?

Theodorus

3o, they do not.

Socrates

'nd he, in turn, according to his !ritings, grants that this opinion also is true.

TheodorusE*idently.

Socrates

Then all men, (eginning !ith @rotagoras, !ill dispute


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Socrates

'nd do you thin$ his doctrine might stand most firmly in the form in !hich !e s$etched it!hen defending @rotagoras, [1C1e] that most things


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Socrates

#n this !ay7 the latter al!ays ha*e that !hich you -ust spo$e of, leisure, and they tal$ attheir leisure in peace" -ust as !e are no! ta$ing up argument after argument, already

(eginning a third, so can they, if as in our case, the ne! one pleases them (etter than that in

!hich they are engaged" and they do not care at all !hether their tal$ is long or short, if

only they attain the truth. ut the men of the other sort are al!ays in a hurry


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in*estigating the uni*ersal nature [1C4a] of e*ery thing that is, each in its entirety, ne*er

lo!ering itself to anything close at hand.

Theodorus

&hat do you mean (y this, Socrates?

Socrates

&hy, ta$e the case of Thales, Theodorus. &hile he !as studying the stars and loo$ing

up!ards, he fell into a pit, and a neat, !itty Thracian ser*ant girl -eered at him, they say,(ecause he !as so eager to $no! the things in the s$y that he could not see !hat !as there

(efore him at his *ery feet. The same -est applies to all !ho pass their li*es in philosophy.

[1C4(] or really such a man pays no attention to his ne8t door neigh(or" he is not onlyignorant of !hat he is doing, (ut he hardly $no!s !hether he is a human (eing or some

other $ind of a creature" (ut !hat a human (eing is and !hat is proper for such a nature to

do or (ear different from any other, this he inuires and e8erts himself to find out. Ao youunderstand, Theodorus, or not?

Theodorus

+es, # do" you are right.

Socrates

0ence it is, my friend, such a man, (oth in pri*ate, !hen he meets !ith indi*iduals, and inpu(lic, as # said in the (eginning, [1C4c] !hen he is o(liged to spea$ in court or else!here

a(out the things at his feet and (efore his eyes, is a laughing%stoc$ not only to Thracian

girls (ut to the multitude in general, for he falls into pits and all sorts of perple8itiesthrough ine8perience, and his a!$!ardness is terri(le, ma$ing him seem a fool" for !hen it

comes to a(using people he has no personal a(use to offer against anyone, (ecause he

$no!s no e*il of any man, ne*er ha*ing cared for such things" so his perple8ity ma$es himappear ridiculous" and as to laudatory speeches [1C4d] and the (oastings of others, it

(ecomes manifest that he is laughing at them

their eyes fi8ed upon the !hole and are una(le to calculate that e*ery man has hadcountless thousands of ancestors and progenitors, among !hom ha*e (een in any instance

rich and poor, $ings and sla*es, (ar(arians and Hree$s. 'nd !hen people pride themsel*es

on a list of t!enty%fi*e ancestors and trace their pedigree (ac$ to 0eracles, the son of'mphitryon, the pettiness of their ideas seems a(surd to him" he laughs at them (ecause

they cannot free their silly minds of *anity (y calculating that [1C(] 'mphitryon=s t!enty%


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fifth ancestor !as such as fortune happened to ma$e him, and the fiftieth for that matter. #n

all these cases the philosopher is derided (y the common herd, partly (ecause he seems to(e contemptuous, partly (ecause he is ignorant of common things and is al!ays in

perple8ity.

TheodorusThat all happens -ust as you say, Socrates.

Socrates

ut !hen, my friend, [1Cc] he dra!s a man up!ards and the other is !illing to rise !ith

him a(o*e the le*el of 9&hat !rong ha*e # done you or you me?: to the in*estigation of

a(stract right and !rong, to inuire !hat each of them is and !herein they differ from eachother and from all other things, or a(o*e the le*el of 9#s a $ing happy?: or, on the other

hand, 90as he great !ealth?: to the in*estigation of royalty and of human happiness and

!retchedness in general, to see !hat the nature of each is and in !hat !ay man is naturallyfitted to gain the one and escape the other< [1Cd] !hen that man of small and sharp and

pettifogging mind is compelled in his turn to gi*e an account of all these things, then theta(les are turned" di;;ied (y the ne! e8perience of hanging at such a height, he ga;es

do!n!ard from the air in dismay and perple8ity" he stammers and (ecomes ridiculous, notin the eyes of Thracian girls or other uneducated persons, for they ha*e no perception of it,

(ut in those of all men !ho ha*e (een (rought up as free men, not as sla*es. Such is the

character of each of the t!o classes, Theodorus, of the man !ho has truly (een (rought upin freedom [1Ce] and leisure, !hom you call a philosopher

appear foolish and good for nothing !hen he is in*ol*ed in menial ser*ices, if, for instance,

he does not $no! ho! to pac$ up his (edding, much less to put the proper s!eetening intoa sauce or a fa!ning speech


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cle*erness of a man is found and also his !orthlessness and co!ardice" for the $no!ledge

of this is !isdom or true *irtue, and ignorance of it is folly or manifest !ic$edness" and allthe other $inds of seeming cle*erness and !isdom are paltry !hen they appear in pu(lic

affairs and *ulgar in the arts. Therefore (y far the (est thing for the unrighteous man [1CBd]

and the man !hose !ords or deeds are impious is not to grant that he is cle*er through

$na*ery" for such men glory in that reproach, and thin$ it means that they are not triflers,9useless (urdens upon the earth,:1B(ut such as men should (e !ho are to li*e safely in a

state. So !e must tell them the truth

6ery true, Socrates. [1CC(]

Socrates

+es, my friend, # $no!. 0o!e*er, there is one thing that has happened to them7 !hene*erthey ha*e to carry on a personal argument a(out the doctrines to !hich they o(-ect, if they

are !illing to stand their ground for a !hile li$e men and do not run a!ay li$e co!ards,

then, my friend, they at last (ecome strangely dissatisfied !ith themsel*es and theirarguments" their (rilliant rhetoric !ithers a!ay, so that they seem no (etter than children.

ut this is a digression. Get us turn a!ay from these matters


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!hom it seems, are !illing to maintain their position in regard to other matters [1CCd] and

to maintain especially in regard to -ustice that !hate*er la!s a state ma$es, (ecause theyseem to it -ust, are -ust to the state that made them, as long as they remain in force" (ut as

regards the good, that no(ody has the courage to go on and contend that !hate*er la!s a

state passes thin$ing them ad*antageous to it are really ad*antageous as long as they

remain in force, unless !hat he means is merely the name 9ad*antageous:

1C

" and that !ould(e ma$ing a -o$e of our argument. 'm # right?

Theodorus

)ertainly. [1CCe]

Socrates

+es" for he must not mean merely the name, (ut the thing named must (e the o(-ect of his

attention.

Theodorus

True.

Socrates

ut the state, in ma$ing la!s, aims, of course, at ad*antage, !hate*er the name it gi*es it,

and ma$es all its la!s as ad*antageous as possi(le to itself, to the e8tent of its (elief and

a(ility" or has it in ma$ing la!s anything else in *ie!? [1CDa]

Theodorus

)ertainly not.

Socrates

'nd does it al!ays hit the mar$, or does e*ery state often miss it?

Theodorus

# should say they do often miss it

Socrates

)ontinuing, then, and proceeding from this point, e*ery one !ould more readily agree to

this assertion, if the uestion !ere as$ed concerning the !hole class to !hich thead*antageous (elongs" and that !hole class, it !ould seem, pertains to the future. or !hen

!e ma$e la!s, !e ma$e them !ith the idea that they !ill (e ad*antageous in after time"

and this is rightly called the future. [1CD(]

Theodorus

)ertainly.

Socrates

)ome then, on this assumption, let us uestion @rotagoras or someone of those !ho agree!ith him. /an is the measure of all things, as your school says, @rotagoras, of the !hite,

the hea*y, the light, e*erything of that sort !ithout e8ception" for he possesses !ithin


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himself the standard (y !hich to -udge them, and !hen his thoughts a(out them coincide

!ith his sensations, he thin$s !hat to him is true and really is. #s not that !hat they say?

Theodorus

+es.

Socrates

Aoes he, then, also, @rotagoras, !e shall say, possess !ithin himself the standard (y !hich

to -udge of the things !hich are yet to (e, and do those things [1CDc] !hich he thin$s !ill(e actually come to pass for him !ho thought them? Ta$e, for instance, heat" if some

ordinary man thin$s he is going to ta$e a fe*er, that is to say, that this particular heat !ill

(e, and some other man, !ho is a physician, thin$s the contrary, !hose opinion shall !ee8pect the future to pro*e right? >r perhaps the opinion of (oth, and the man !ill (ecome,

not hot or fe*erish to the physician, (ut to himself (oth?

Theodorus

3o, that !ould (e ridiculous.

Socrates

ut, # imagine, in regard to the s!eetness or dryness [1CDd] !hich !ill (e in a !ine, the

opinion of the hus(andman, not that of the lyre%player, !ill (e *alid.

Theodorus

>f course.

Socrates

'nd again, in a matter of discord or tunefulness in music that has ne*er (een played, a

gymnastic teacher could not -udge (etter than a musician !hat !ill, !hen performed, seemtuneful e*en to a gymnastic teacher himself.

Theodorus

)ertainly not.

Socrates

Then, too, !hen a (anuet is in preparation the opinion of him !ho is to (e a guest, unlesshe has training in coo$ery, is of less *alue concerning the pleasure that !ill (e deri*ed from

the *iands than that of the coo$. [1CDe] or !e need not yet argue a(out that !hich already

is or has (een pleasant to each one (ut concerning that !hich !ill in the future seem and (epleasant to each one, is he himself the (est -udge for himself, or !ould you, @rotagoras


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Socrates

+es, my friend, he certainly did" other!ise no(ody !ould ha*e paid him a high fee [1Ca]for his con*ersations, if he had not made his pupils (elie*e that neither a prophet nor

anyone else could -udge (etter than himself !hat !as in the future to (e and seem.

Theodorus6ery true.

Socrates

oth la!ma$ing, then, and the ad*antageous are concerned !ith the future, and e*eryone

!ould agree that a state in ma$ing la!s must often fail to attain the greatest ad*antage?

Theodorus

'ssuredly.

Socrates

Then it !ill (e a fair ans!er if !e say to your master [1C(] that he is o(liged to agree thatone man is !iser than another, and that such a !ise man is a measure, (ut that #, !ho am!ithout $no!ledge, am not in the least o(liged to (ecome a measure, as the argument in his

(ehalf -ust no! tried to o(lige me to (e, !hether # !ould or no.

Theodorus

#n that respect, Socrates, # thin$ that the argument is most clearly pro*ed to (e !rong, and itis pro*ed !rong in this also, in that it declares the opinions of others to (e *alid, !hereas it

!as sho!n that they do not consider his arguments true at all. [1Cc]

Socrates

#n many other respects, Theodorus, it could (e pro*ed that not e*ery opinion of e*eryperson is true, at any rate in matters of that $ind" (ut it is more difficult to pro*e that

opinions are not true in regard to the momentary states of feeling of each person, from

!hich our perceptions and the opinions concerning them arise. ut perhaps # am uite!rong" for it may (e impossi(le to pro*e that they are not true, and those !ho say that they

are manifest and are forms of $no!ledge may perhaps (e right, and Theaetetus here !as

not far from the mar$ in saying that perception and $no!ledge are identical. [1Cd] So !e

must, as the argument in (ehalf of @rotagoras1Den-oined upon us, come up closer ande8amine this doctrine of motion as the fundamental essence, rapping on it to see !hether it

rings sound or unsound. 's you $no!, a strife has arisen a(out it, no mean one, either, and

!aged (y not a fe! com(atants.

Theodorus

+es, far from mean, and it is spreading far and !ide all o*er #onia" for the disciples of

0eracleitus are supporting this doctrine *ery *igorously.

Socrates

Therefore, my dear Theodorus, !e must all the more e8amine it [1Ce] from the (eginning

as they themsel*es present it.
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Theodorus

)ertainly !e must. or it is no more possi(le, Socrates, to discuss these doctrines of0eracleitus Kor, as you say, of 0omer or e*en earlier sagesL !ith the Ephesians themsel*es


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from those !ho !ould mo*e !hat is motionless. [1D1(] ut if !e find that neither party

has anything reasona(le to say, !e shall (e ridiculous if !e thin$ that !e, !ho are of noaccount, can say anything !orth !hile after ha*ing re-ected the doctrines of *ery ancient

and *ery !ise men. Therefore, Theodorus, see !hether it is desira(le to go for!ard into so

great a danger.

Theodorus

>h, it !ould (e unendura(le, Socrates, not to e8amine thoroughly the doctrines of (oth

parties.

Socrates

Then they must (e e8amined, since you are so urgent. 3o! # thin$ the starting%point of oure8amination of the doctrine of motion is this7 [1D1c] E8actly !hat do they mean, after all,

!hen they say that all things are in motion? &hat # !ish to as$ is this7 Ao they mean to say

that there is only one $ind of motion or, as # (elie*e, t!o? ut it must not (e my (eliefalone" you must share it also, that if anything happens to us !e may suffer it in common.

Tell me, do you call it motion !hen a thing changes its place or turns round in the sameplace?

Theodorus

+es.

Socrates

Get this, then, (e one $ind of motion. 3o! !hen a thing [1D1d] remains in the same place,

(ut gro!s old, or (ecomes (lac$ instead of !hite, or hard instead of soft, or undergoes anyother $ind of alteration, is it not proper to say that this is another $ind of motion?

Theodorus

# thin$ so.

Socrates

3ay, it must (e true. So # say that there are these t!o $inds of motion7 9alteration,: and

9motion in space.:

Theodorus

'nd you are right.

Socrates

3o! that !e ha*e made this distinction, let us at once con*erse !ith those !ho say that all

things are in motion, and let us as$ them, 9Ao you mean that e*erything mo*es in (oth

!ays, [1D1e] mo*ing in space and undergoing alteration, or one thing in (oth !ays andanother in one of the t!o !ays only?:

Theodorus

y eus, # cannot tell ut # thin$ they !ould say that e*erything mo*es in (oth !ays.


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Socrates

+es" other!ise, my friend, they !ill find that things in motion are also things at rest, and it!ill (e no more correct to say that all things are in motion than that all things are at rest.

Theodorus

&hat you say is *ery true.

Socrates

Then since they must (e in motion, and since a(sence of motion must (e impossi(le foranything, all things are [1D2a] al!ays in all $inds of motion.

Theodorus

3ecessarily.

Socrates

Then -ust e8amine this point of their doctrine. Aid !e not find that they say that heat or

!hiteness or anything you please arises in some such !ay as this, namely that each of thesemo*es simultaneously !ith perception (et!een the acti*e and the passi*e element, and thepassi*e (ecomes percipient, (ut not perception, and the acti*e (ecomes, not a uality, (ut

endo!ed !ith a uality? 3o! perhaps uality seems an e8traordinary !ord, and you do not

understand it !hen used !ith general application, so let me gi*e particular e8amples.

[1D2(] or the acti*e element (ecomes neither heat nor !hiteness, (ut hot or !hite, andother things in the same !ay" you pro(a(ly remem(er that this !as !hat !e said earlier in

our discourse, that nothing is in itself un*aryingly one, neither the acti*e nor the passi*e,

(ut from the union of the t!o !ith one another the perceptions and the percei*ed gi*e (irthand the latter (ecome things endo!ed !ith some uality !hile the former (ecome

percipient.

Theodorus

# remem(er, of course.

Socrates

Get us then pay no attention to other matters, !hether they teach [1D2c] one thing or

another" (ut let us attend strictly to this only, !hich is the o(-ect of our discussion. Get us

as$ them, 9're all things, according to your doctrine, in motion and flu8?: #s that so?

Theodorus

+es.

Socrates

0a*e they then (oth $inds of motion !hich !e distinguished? 're they mo*ing in spaceand also undergoing alteration?

Theodorus

>f course" that is, if they are to (e in perfect motion.


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Socrates

Then if they mo*ed only in space, (ut did not undergo alteration, !e could perhaps say!hat ualities (elong to those mo*ing things !hich are in flu8, could !e not?

Theodorus

That is right. [1D2d]

Socrates

ut since not e*en this remains fi8ed


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that all things are in motion, -ust for the purpose of ma$ing that ans!er pro*e to (e correct.

ut this, # thin$, did pro*e to (e true, that if all things are in motion, e*ery ans!er to anyuestion !hatsoe*er is eually correct, and !e may say it is thus or not thus


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Theodorus

&hy !ill you not comply !ith it?

Socrates

ecause # ha*e a re*erential fear of e8amining in a flippant manner /elissus and the others

!ho teach that the uni*erse is one and motionless, and (ecause # re*erence still more oneman, @armenides. @armenides seems to me to (e, in 0omer=s !ords, 9one to (e *enerated:and also 9a!ful.:22or # met him !hen # !as *ery young and he !as *ery old, and he

appeared to me to possess an a(solutely no(le depth of mind. [1D4a] So # am afraid !e may

not understand his !ords and may (e still farther from understanding !hat he meant (y

them" (ut my chief fear is that the uestion !ith !hich !e started, a(out the nature of$no!ledge, may fail to (e in*estigated, (ecause of the disorderly cro!d of arguments

!hich !ill (urst in upon us if !e let them in" especially as the argument !e are no!

proposing is of *ast e8tent, and !ould not recei*e its deserts if !e treated it as a side issue,and if !e treat it as it deser*es, it !ill ta$e so long as to do a!ay !ith the discussion a(out

$no!ledge. 3either of these things ought to happen, (ut !e ought to try (y the science of

mid!ifery to deli*er Theaetetus of the thoughts [1D4(] a(out $no!ledge !ith !hich he ispregnant.

Theodorus

+es, if that is your opinion, !e ought to do so.

Socrates

)onsider, then, Theaetetus, this further point a(out !hat has (een said. 3o! you ans!eredthat perception is $no!ledge, did you not?

Theaetetus

+es.

Socrates

#f, then, anyone should as$

Platón - Theaetetus

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Transcript of Platón - Theaetetus