Parliament Explained

A podcast from the UK Parliament

Episode 3 ‘Scrutiny: Questions and Debates’

Script

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<<MUSICAL INTRODUCTION>>

MEERA: Welcome to the third podcast in this series, “Parliament Explained”.

I’m Meera Syal and in this series I’m exploring exactly what happens in Parliament.

To make sure you never miss an episode, you can subscribe the programme on your podcast app so that it downloads automatically every Monday

In this episode we’ll be thinking about scrutiny. We’ve learned that the UK Parliament checks and challenges the work of the Government, but how does this work in practise? It’s time to hear in more detail at some of the tools used by MPs and members of the House of Lords to scrutinise the work of the Government, such as questioning and debates.

We’ll begin by hearing more about the daily questions put to ministers in both Chambers and how this can be used to respond to current events, highlight areas of public concern and to press for government action. Then we’ll talk about ways for MPs and members of the House of Lords can get more in-depth responses on a topic, through written questions and debates. We’ll also be exploring some of the traditions and

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formalities of how questions and debates work in each House.

Some of the things we discuss in this episode may seem quite familiar to you. Perhaps you’ve seen clips of Prime Minister’s Questions on the news or watched a debate in the House of Lords on TV. But there may be other areas of parliamentary business that are less familiar.

We discovered in our first episode that the Government is accountable to Parliament. This means that, when Parliament questions the decisions or actions of the Government, ministers are expected to come to Parliament to respond and explain the Government’s position.

VOX POPS: “Oh we certainly need to keep them in check.

They certainly need to listen to the voice of the people”

“People need to know what’s going on. They need to discuss it”

“It means yeah they think about points even further in challenging what their opinions are, so we’re not led into a direction that we don’t want to be led into”

"Otherwise they’d be able to do whatever they want. I think there needs to be two sides to every argument, if not three or four sides, and I think challenging and debating is the only way that we’re going to be more reflective of society”

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“It’s an absolute flagstone of our kind of democracy that you’re keeping things in check, you’re always debating, so that not one political party can get away with anything and put whatever they want through. Really important to keep checks and balances”

“People from varied backgrounds and beliefs and different types of people”

“It’s not just the decisions that are important but also the justification behind decisions. People need to be aware how decisions are reached”

<<MUSIC ENDS>> MEERA:While some members of both Houses are chosen to become government ministers, the vast majority of MPs and members of the House of Lords aren’t, and their role is to work on our behalf to question and scrutinise the Government.

Scrutiny in Parliament takes many forms, including:

1) Parliamentary Questions, these can be either oral questions, asked in person in the House of Commons or House of Lords Chamber, or written questions that are submitted in writing and receive a written answer.

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2) Debates on specific subjects - these allow those taking part more time to raise different points and have them answered by a minister

3) Inquiries by select committees. We’ll talk more about the scrutiny carried out by select committees in our next episode.

Let’s start with Oral Questions in the Commons. While these take place throughout the week and for all departments, one of the liveliest and most well-known events in the Parliamentary calendar is Prime Minister’s Question Time, sometimes referred to as PMQs.

PRIME MINISTER THERESA MAY MP:“I understand and share the concern my honourable friend rightly shows for her constituent… I understand the Minister at the Foreign Office is actively working on this question and of course I will ask him to respond to the honourable lady and to meet with her”- Response to an Oral Question to the Prime

Minister, House of Commons Chamber, Wednesday 30 November 2016

MEERA: Prime Minister’s Question Time – or PMQs - is one of the most well-known events of the parliamentary week. For half an hour each Wednesday in the House of Commons, MPs are given the opportunity to put questions directly to

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the Prime Minister on any subject for which the Government is responsible. To tell us more, Lynn Hobson and Gary Hart are here. They’re Regional Outreach Officers for the Houses of Parliament. LYNN HOBSON: The Prime Minister answers questions in the House of Commons Chamber for half an hour each sitting week and, as with most parliamentary business, it’s broadcast live online at parliamentlive.tv. These exchanges are often lively, so they’re regularly featured in the news headlines and shared widely on social media.

MEERA: Who gets to ask a question during PMQs?

GARY HART: MPs need to enter a ballot for the chance to ask the Prime Minister their question during PMQs. They do this by submitting a question in advance – which is known as ‘tabling a question’. Then, out of all the questions that have been tabled, 15 are chosen randomly by computer - a process we call the ‘shuffle’.

Additionally, the Leader of the Opposition is allowed, by convention, to ask up to six questions each time and the leader of the second largest opposition party is normally called to ask at least one question.

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Finally, to make sure that some political and regional balance is achieved and that a diversity of viewpoints is heard, the Speaker normally calls several other MPs to ask a question during the session.

MEERA:So what actually happens during this half-hour session?

HUW MERRIMAN MP:“Number 1 Mr Speaker”

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MR SPEAKER:“Prime Minister...”- Oral Question to the Prime Minister , House of

Commons Chamber, Wednesday 15 March 2017

LYNN:PMQs normally begins with a routine question from an MP about the Prime Minister’s engagements for the day, to which the PM responds by listing their upcoming meetings.

Because the whole House is generally present for the occasion, the Prime Minister may also take the opportunity at this point to make an announcement or give an official reaction to a recent event. The MP who asked the initial question is then allowed to ask a follow-up question – known as a supplementary. According to the rules, supplementary questions must stick to the same subject matter as the original question that was tabled but, by tabling a broad first question - about the PM’s engagements for the day - an MP is free to ask a supplementary on any subject within the Government’s responsibilities.

And the Prime Minister has no advance notice of what the question will be.

For this reason, most MPs choose to table this very same ‘engagements’ question in order to enter the ballot for PMQs. So when MPs are called to ask their question during the session itself, in

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most cases they’ll simply ask their supplementary question.

TOBY PERKINS MP:“The Government chose to launch the pupil premium at Spire Junior School in Chesterfield, where 70% of pupils receive free school meals. The headteacher, Dave Shaw, was going to run the great north run for a cancer charity. However, the Prime Minister’s new schools funding formula means that Spire Junior School now faces the biggest cuts in all of Derbyshire. Running for cash is now the only alternative to sacking staff. Will she go to the finish line and tell Dave Shaw how this is a fairer funding formula?”

PRIME MINISTER THERESA MAY MP:“I am pleased to say that, in the local authority that covers the honourable Gentleman’s constituency, we have seen an increase of over 17,000 children at good or outstanding schools since 2010”.- Oral Question to the Prime Minister and

response, House of Commons Chamber, Wednesday 8th February 2017

LYNN:All of this means that the Prime Minister doesn’t know in advance what questions they’ll be asked. They will, mind you, be extensively briefed by

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government officials who try to anticipate the likely subjects that will come up.

The Leader of the Opposition is usually called early on in the proceedings and, unlike other MPs, has the chance to come back with several further questions. Media attention will often focus on the performance of the two party leaders during these very public exchanges.

JEREMY CORBYN MP:“What the Prime Minister is doing is petulantly aiming a threat at our public services with her threats about a bargain basement Britain. Is her priority our struggling NHS, those denied social care, and children having their school funding cut, or is it once again further cuts in big business taxation to make the rich even better off?”

PRIME MINISTER THERESA MAY MP:“I simply remind the right honourable Gentleman that I have been very clear that this Government will protect workers’ rights; indeed, we have a review of modern employment law to ensure all employment legislation is keeping up with the modern labour market”.- Oral Question to the Prime Minister and

response, House of Commons Chamber, Wednesday 25 January 2017

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MEERA: Does every MP who wants to ask a question get to do so?

GARY: PMQs are always over-subscribed. In the past, though, it was quite common for a session of PMQs to end even before all the questions on the Order Paper had been answered.

The current Speaker, John Bercow, has established a brisker style to give more backbenchers a chance to take part and he usually makes sure he calls all 15 MPs as well as several others even if this means the session runs over by a few minutes.

ANGUS ROBERTSON MP:“I am sorry but that is not good enough. I am being heckled while standing up for deprived communities. That will ill behove Tory Members in Scotland.

The Leader of the House is correct that the Department has plans to cut the estate by 20%, but it is planning to cut it by 50% in Glasgow. Why are the Government planning disproportionately to cut vital jobcentres in some of the most deprived communities in our country?”

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- Oral Question to the Prime Minister and response, House of Commons Chamber, Wednesday 7 December 2016

MEERA: You can follow PMQs live online every week on parliamentlive.tv and you can also listen back to any edition of PMQs in podcast form on SoundCloud at www.soundcloud.com/ukparliament. You’ll be able to hear how the Prime Minister begins with answering a question on their engagements, answers a supplementary question, and then responds to questions from other MPs and opposition leaders.

<<MUSICAL BREAK>>

MEERA: In February 2014, the Hansard Society published ‘Tuned in or Turned off? Public attitudes to Prime Minister’s Questions’.

This report studied public attitudes to PMQs and asked whether PMQs is a ‘cue’ for wider negative perceptions of Parliament. Lynn Hobson’s back to tell us more.

LYNN: The Hansard Society report acknowledged that PMQs is the best known aspect of Parliament’s work. It’s famous all around the world for its combative, adversarial atmosphere.

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It’s the bit of Parliament’s work that the public are most aware of and have likely seen on the television news. But while it is well known, their research found that high levels of public awareness of PMQs shouldn’t be mistaken for a high level of approval.

In fact, the most common words the public used to describe it were:

VOX POPS: “Noisy” “Childish” “Over-the-top” “Pointless”

LYNN:Although the report indicated some negative public perceptions of PMQs - with some saying that the noisy and aggressive atmosphere can put people off politics - others argue that a call for reform of PMQs misses the point. That a weekly clash reminds us of the essential nature of politics, and that opposing views are worth fighting for.

Others have made the point that many people around the world who live in less open societies would relish seeing their own leaders held to account in such a public forum week after week, so that we in the UK should perhaps be more proud of PMQs and what it represents.

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MEERA:So what happened when I asked members of the public their opinions on PMQs?

VOX POPS: “I think PMQs is effective to the extent that

it’s an opportunity for the Opposition to hold the Government to account, so I think it would be good if the Opposition had more opportunity to ask further questions”

“There seems to be a lot of huffing and puffing and a lot of ‘hear hear’ and I wonder how much the kind of exhibition side of it gets in the way of getting anything done”

“I think the follow-up from things like PMQs is so few-and-far-between that it’s almost futile to have the debate in the first place”

“I think it’s a good thing, it raises awareness and for those who are already aware it can raise their causes”

“It’s important for the Prime Minister to interact with the Parliament that everyone votes on”

“It’s staged a lot of the time I think” “It’s become very show-y now, and I think it

was more perceptive before” “It’s a chance for the Prime Minister to be

properly grilled on the issues of the day, and I think that’s a good thing”

“Ask a question and get a straight answer, that’s what people want…At the end of the day a question is asked of the Prime Minister

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and they rebuff it…and never give a straight answer“

“Media needs to change what they report and that would help”

“It is shout-y and I don’t think they get anywhere from all the shouting. Actually then it puts people off listening to it or watching it, because all you’re tuning into is them arguing with each other rather than actually discussing the point from an objective point of view”

“Half an hour is not a lot of time, there’s not a lot of questions to get through, so I’d say extend it to an hour, possibly twice a week. I think it’s really important”

<<MUSICAL BREAK>>

MEERA: I’m now going to focus more broadly on both oral and written parliamentary questions as a tool used by members of the House of Lords and MPs to hold the Government to account.

Prime Minister’s Question Time is just one of many oral question sessions that take place during a week in Parliament. In fact, members of the House of Lords and MPs in the Commons have an opportunity to put questions to government ministers or spokespeople on most sitting days.

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Let’s hear more from Gary Hart and Lynn Hobson.

GARY: Cabinet ministers come to the House of Commons each sitting day from Monday to Thursday to respond to oral questions, for up to an hour, about the work of their department.

Each department is called to appear about once every five sitting weeks, according to a rota set by the Government. Most of the questions asked at these sessions have been submitted at least three days in advance and the full text of each question can be seen beforehand in a numbered list on the day’s Order Paper.

So during the session, the Speaker calls out just the question number and the minister responds by reading out an answer they have prepared in advance. But then, like at PMQs, the MP who submitted the question can ask a follow-up, supplementary question.

An MP’s supplementary question must be on the same subject as the original question they tabled, but this time the minister won’t have a ready prepared response.

So this can be an opportunity for opposition MPs to try to wrong-foot a minister by putting them on the spot publicly about something or exposing an apparent failing.

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Equally, an MP from the Government side might ask a question that allows the minister to highlight an apparent success. If the minister doesn’t have the facts and figures to hand that are needed to answer a supplementary question, they will normally promise to write to the MP afterwards with the information.

ANDREW TURNER MP: “Coastal areas have particular challenges because they do not have 360 abilities to trade with other areas. Does the Right Honourable Gentleman regard the Isle Of Wight as a special case?”

PHILIP HAMMOND MP: “What I can say is that the Government recognises the specific barriers to coastal areas such as the Isle of Wight and that’s why we have extended the coastal communities fund by at least a further 90 million pounds over the current parliament… the Isle of Wight has benefitted from almost 15 million pounds of investment to grow the skills base, support business growth and improve transport links.”- Oral Question to the Chancellor of the Exchequer

and response, House of Commons Chamber, Tuesday 29 November 2016

GARY:

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Not all the questions submitted in advance can be answered in the time that’s available. As with PMQs, a random computerised ‘shuffle’ is used to decide the order in which MPs’ questions are answered on the day.

Most ministerial question sessions end with an opportunity for MPs to ask a number of ‘topical questions’. As the name suggests, these can be used to question ministers about issues that may only have come up that day. Similar to PMQs, MPs enter a ballot for the chance to ask a topical question.

LYNN: In the House of Lords, oral questions begin the day’s business every Monday to Thursday. The questions tabled are put to the Government as a whole, rather than to a particular government department. They’re answered by a relevant minister with a seat in the Lords or, if they aren’t available, by another government spokesperson - often a whip, as we heard last time.

A member posing a question doesn’t actually ask it out loud in the Chamber. The text appears on a pre-published order paper, so they simply say ‘My Lords, I beg leave to ask the question standing in my name on the order paper’. The minister then responds from the despatch box.

In the Lords, while 4 questions appear on the order paper each day, each of those questions

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can be followed-up by several supplementary questions on the same topic from other members.

These extra questions are taken in turn from each party and the crossbench members, and the Government spokesperson is required to answer each one.

Here the Lord Speaker doesn’t play the same role as the Commons Speaker in choosing who will ask a question. Instead, it is the members themselves make sure they all stick to the right order. If a peer speaks out of turn, you’ll hear others call out “Our side!” or the name of the party that should go next. It’s an example of the self-regulating nature of the Lords.

LORD BATES: “(Fades in)...helping children who are currently out of school to get into it so that their learning does not suffer. The noble Lord is absolutely right that we should focus on that.”

BARONESS SHEEHAN: “My Lords…”

LORD TEBBIT:“My Lords…”

THE LORD PRIVY SEAL, BARONESS EVANS OF BOWES PARK:

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“My Lords, it is the turn of the Liberal Democrat Benches”

BARONESS SHEEHAN: “My Lords, may I ask the Minister for an assurance that, should the Kazakh peace negotiations take place, the Government will do their utmost to make sure that Syrian refugees and internally displaced persons are fully considered?”- Oral Questions to the Minister of State for

International Development, House of Lords Chamber, Tuesday 10 January 2017

LYNN:The open nature of follow-up questions here gives members in the Lords even more opportunity to challenge the Government on its work than MPs have in the Commons. Oral questions in the Lords can be tabled anywhere between 1 month and 24 hours in advance.

MEERA:This example was one of four supplementary questions on train company strikes:

LORD ROSSER:“It’s clear that as a result of poor performance and days of industrial action that passengers, staff and the taxpayer are incurring financial costs…Could the noble Lord, the Minister, say what financial penalties have so far been incurred by the

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train operator as a result of first: poor performance and second: days of industrial action. Because if no financial penalties have been incurred by the operator then what is the incentive first for the operator to resolve the issues of poor performance and second industrial action if neither matter is affecting them financially?”- Oral Question to the Parliamentary Under-

Secretary of State for Transport, House of Lords Chamber, Tuesday 10 January 2017

GARY: As well as the questions scheduled in advance, members of the Lords can enter a ballot to ask a topical oral question as the fourth question in the day’s session, Tuesday to Thursday. This is usually drawn a few days before each session, providing another route for peers to quiz government on live issues of the day.

LYNN: The grilling ministers get in the Lords can appear polite and genteel but don’t be fooled - it can be formidable, and ministers have nowhere to hide. Lord Rooker, a Labour peer, served as a minister in both the Commons and the Lords. In a Lords debate in 2010 he said “I was under greater scrutiny in my eight years here as a Minister than I ever was in the other place.” By the ‘other place’, he meant the House of Commons.

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He then added that “I am quite happy to say that. It was because of the nature of the way this place works, whether Question Time, Select Committees, or the floor of the House. There is no doubt about it.”

<<MUSICAL INTERLUDE>>

MEERA: As well as coming to answer questions, Government ministers and spokespeople often come to Parliament at short notice to announce important decisions or respond to events in person. They are also expected to come and report back after international summits and meetings with foreign governments.

GARY: Ministers are expected to keep Parliament informed about important policy decisions and any other significant developments. Because most ministers are MPs, this is often done by making an ‘oral statement’ in the Commons Chamber, where the minister reads out a prepared speech and then takes questions from MPs for up to an hour.

The statement will normally be repeated by a minister from the same department in the House of Lords Chamber, to allow members of the Lords the chance to ask the Government questions there.

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LORD HENLEY: “With permission Mr Speaker, I would like to make a statement about the Government’s corporate governance green paper published earlier today… successful businesses are the backbone of our society FADES…”- Repetition of statement first made by the

Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, House of Lords Chamber, Tuesday 29 November 2016

GARY:The topics for Ministerial Statements are wide ranging. For example, during January 2017 ministers came to Parliament to make statements on subjects ranging from the then-forthcoming Northern Ireland Assembly election to the process for triggering Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty.

MEERA: But MPs and members of the House of Lords don’t have to wait for ministers to decide whether or not a matter is important enough for them to come to Parliament.

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LYNN: If an MP believes that an immediate answer is needed from a government minister in response to something that has happened, they can ask the Speaker to grant them what’s known as an Urgent Question. An Urgent Question requires a minister to come to the House of Commons that same day to explain what the Government is doing about an issue and the current Speaker of the Commons has been more inclined to grant these than his predecessors were.

GARY: In December 2016, Urgent Questions granted by the Speaker included those on the crisis in social care, on the Casey Report into the integration of migrants in the UK and on Southern Rail’s train services.

CAROLINE LUCAS MP:“To ask the Secretary of State for Transport if he will make a statement on Southern rail?”

PAUL MAYNARD MP:“Performance on the Southern network has been affected by a combination of factors over the previous months. Those have included trade union action, infrastructure reliability and operator issues. The unions have stepped up their industrial action in the run-up to Christmas, additionally co-ordinating it with action on the underground network…”

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- Urgent Question to the Parliamentary Under- Secretary of State for Transport and response, House of Commons Chamber, Monday 5 December 2016

GARY:Urgent Questions have become a way for the Commons to engage immediately with a high profile issue of the moment that wouldn’t otherwise find its way onto the House’s agenda. It puts the Government under pressure to respond, report and explain; and the mere tabling of an urgent question, of which the Government is immediately informed, is sometimes enough for ministers to volunteer a full statement.

CAROLINE LUCAS MP: “I thank the Minister for his reply. I am putting this question today with the support of Members from right across the House. On Friday, we heard that Southern rail services were to be severely disrupted every day from tomorrow until further notice. However, that grim warning of imminent service collapse comes after more than two years of rail chaos, which started long before any strike action began...”- Supplementary Question to the Parliamentary

Under-Secretary of State for Transport, House of Commons Chamber, Monday 5 December 2016

LYNN:

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Though less commonly used, the equivalent of an Urgent Question in the House of Lords, known as a Private Notice Question, allows Lords members to raise urgent matters with the Government on any sitting day.

BARONESS SYMONS:“My Lords I beg you to ask a question of which I have given private notice. The question is as follows: To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their response to the suggestion from the Royal Colleges of Medicine that the Government pauses work on the junior hospital doctors’ contract and that the BMA pauses work on planning further industrial action, for five days to allow further talks to take place on the junior hospital doctors’ contract”- Private Notice Question to the Parliamentary

Under-Secretary of State for Health, House of Lords Chamber, Thursday 5 May 2016

LYNN:Private Notice Questions are taken immediately after oral questions, or first thing on Friday. They aren’t meant to be used to prompt an immediate debate, and Proceedings follow the rules for oral questions. In particular, the supplementary questions should be short and confined to not more than two points. Proceedings on a PNQ are therefore expected to take no more than about 10 minutes.

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<<MUSICAL INTERLUDE>>

MEERA: But questions asked orally in the Chambers make up only a small part of the questions that are put to ministers by members of Parliament every day.

The majority of parliamentary questions tabled are questions requiring a written answer. This type of question allows MPs and Lords to scrutinise, in detail, specific areas of government policy and to persist in their line of questioning beyond what is available to them through Oral Questions.

Written questions have one great advantage over oral questions: they can be pursued much more relentlessly.

At Question Time a question is asked and answered and then the moment has passed, but written questions can follow up the precise conduct of the Government policy in a particular area and probe more deeply.

And Government ministers are expected to provide a written response to every written question that’s been submitted.

Written questions are used for many different reasons including:

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●To obtain detailed information about a specific government policy

●To obtain statistics on the activities of a government department

●To press for government action on a particular issue

●To follow up on specific commitments or promises that have been made by ministers.

Members of the House of Lords can table up to six questions each day and can expect an answer within 14 days. MPs can expect an answer to their questions within 7 days, although with two days’ notice a reply can be requested on a ‘named day’.

All of the information obtained through these questions, including the over 40,000 oral and written questions tabled by MPs in the 2015-16 session, is freely accessible in the public domain, as both the question and answer are published online in the Written Questions and Answers database on the UK Parliament website. Just search for ‘written questions and answers’.

Let’s leave questions for now and focus for the rest of this episode on another core aspect of the business in both Houses: debates.

<<MUSICAL BREAK>>

MEERA: 28

Debates are used in both Houses to scrutinise the work of the Government. They enable MPs and Lords to obtain more detailed responses from the Government and allow a range of opinions to be voiced and for issues to be discussed at length.

Subjects for debate can range from local issues, such as the proposed closure of a local hospital, to matters of global importance, for example the status of refugee children or the response to public health emergencies such as the Ebola virus.

LORD PRESCOTT: “This House will very shortly be debating new powers for Transport for the North which are regional. Let us start looking at the north as a region, not tribally representing Liverpool, Manchester, Hull or wherever. Let us get back to thinking strategically.”

BARONESS PINNOCK:“My Lords, I am glad to be following the noble Lord, Lord Prescott, and agree considerably with his remarks...The picture painted in the IPPR report, The State of the North, is one I recognise. The analysis reflects much of what was done by the regional development agency, Yorkshire Forward, 10 years ago. The analysis then, as now, is that the challenges for Yorkshire are poor connectivity, relatively low skills and inadequate investment in new businesses to

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transform the region from its 19th-century industrial past.”- Debate on 'Motion to Take Note' of the Institute

for Public Policy Research’s annual State of the North report, and the case for equality of opportunity and sustainable productivity, House of Lords Chamber, Thursday 12 January 2017

MEERA:Every debate is attended by a government minister who must listen to the views expressed and respond to the points raised.

Debates also take place at different stages of the legislative cycle (the process of making laws) in both Houses, as we will find out in a later episode. And after major government announcements, like the Queen’s Speech or the annual Budget statement, several days are normally devoted to debating their contents.

As well as Government-sponsored debates, and debates chosen by the main opposition parties, individual MPs and Lords can also apply for an opportunity to hold a debate on a topic of their choosing. Regular slots for these are available throughout the week in both Houses.

<<MUSIC STOPS>>

Next LYNN HOBSON AND GARY HART tell us what happens when the Commons debates the issues of the day.

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LYNN: Commons debates are often lively, with MPs intervening on each other’s speeches to support or challenge what they are saying. It’s a dynamic style of discussion, where MPs generally respond to the points made by other speakers rather than reading out formal, prepared speeches.

GARY: Mind you, that doesn’t mean there aren’t rules for debates! MPs have a right to be heard without overwhelming background noise, and unparliamentary language (such as insulting another member) isn’t allowed.

PRIME MINISTER THERESA MAY MP: “What the Labour party fails to understand—[Interruption.]”

MR SPEAKER: “Order. There is far too much noise. Mr Pound, calm yourself—you are supposed to be a senior statesman—and Mr Rotheram, you should reserve your shouting for the stands at Anfield.”

PRIME MINISTER: “As I say, all councils have the opportunity to raise the 3% precept...”

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- Oral Questions to the Prime Minister , House of Commons Chamber, Wednesday 8 February 2017

MEERA: I’m now going to find out about some of the conventions that remain an important part of how business takes place in the House of Commons Chamber. We’ll hear how members address each other during a debate and how decisions are made.

LYNN: The Speaker of the House of Commons doesn’t take sides in a debate. Their role is to be the referee of the match and not a player.

MR SPEAKER: “Order. The honourable Gentleman is an excitable Zebedee. It has been made abundantly clear to him that the Minister is not giving way.”- Second Reading of the European Union

(Notification of Withdrawal) Bill, House of Commons Chamber, Wednesday 1 February 2017

LYNN: Everybody wants to get the attention of the Speaker, and to get noticed, members stand up. It's very much for the Speaker to choose who to call.

MEERA: 32

How does the Speaker decide?

GARY: Well, he goes back and forth from one side to the other so there's a mix between the Government and the Opposition. The Speaker will try to call MPs from different intakes, not just from people who came in 40 years ago, but from people who maybe came in two years ago. They also try to make sure there’s a geographical spread of MPs from constituencies across the country. And to some extent, he will look to call people expressing a range of different views.

MEERA: There’s a certain way that people refer to each other in debates too. Instead of using their name, they will say, for example, ‘My honourable friend’

LYNN: That’s the term MPs use in the Commons for others in their own party.

MEERA: Or they refer to them by the constituency they represent, such as: ‘the Honourable Member for Darlington’.

GARY: That’s how they would refer to an MP on the opposing benches.

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MEERA: And when they say Mr Speaker…?

LYNN: That’s how they address the House of Commons Speaker.

GARY: Only the Speaker will call an MP by their name. And given that there are 650 elected MPs in Parliament, that’s a lot of names to remember!

LYNN: Debates in the House of Lords work differently to those in the House of Commons because of the self-regulating nature of the Lords. As we heard, the Lord Speaker doesn’t impose order. Instead, the House as a whole takes responsibility for discipline in the Chamber, or ‘keeping order’. Self-regulation has the additional benefit of allowing for more flexibility, so that members of the House of Lords have more time than MPs might typically have in the Commons to examine and debate issues in depth.

GARY: In the House of Lords Chamber, about 40 per cent of time is spent holding the Government to account for its decisions and actions. Because its members have been drawn from a wide range of professions – including medicine, law, business, the arts and science - they can draw on their

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considerable experience and expertise during debates.

BARONESS CHISHOLM OF OWLPEN:“...Does the Minister feel that this is the way forward and that we ought to concentrate more on this? By the time prisoners come out, it is often too late to try to treat their addictions.”

BARONESS WILLIAMS OF TRAFFORD: “I thank my noble friend for that question and respect her great experience in the area of health. It is absolutely right that prisoners should receive treatment for both prevention and their drug use, because when they come out of prison, it is very important that they have recovered from their drug use and the issues associated with it.”

- Oral Question to the Minister of State for the Home Office and response, House of Lords Chamber, Tuesday 7 February 2017

GARY:There are three main types of debate in the House of Lords:

General debates. These usually take place on Thursdays, and take the form of one longer debate or two short debates lasting, in total, around five hours. During debates, members are able to put their experience to good use, discussing current issues and drawing the

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Government's attention to concerns. Each party is given opportunities throughout the year to initiate such debates and backbench members can enter a ballot to propose general debates.

Short debates. These take place at the end of business or during breaks in main business and should last 60 or 90 minutes. In October 2013 a weekly one hour slot for a topical question for short debate was introduced. Backbench members can enter a ballot to propose topical subjects for these debates.

Debates on committee reports or general issues of the day with no set timing.

As in the Commons, a government minister or spokesperson must be present at every debate in the Lords to respond to the questions and issues that have been raised.

In the 2015-16 session, Lords members tabled 8,842 oral and written questions and held 203 debates, highlighting their role in holding the Government to account.Votes in Parliament are often referred to as divisions. At the end of a debate in the Commons, typically, the Speaker will say, "The question is as on the Order Paper. As many as there are of the opinion, say aye." And those MPs who support the motion will yell, "Aye." The

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Speaker then asks those who don’t support the motion to say so by saying "Of the contrary, no." And often some MPs will yell, "No."

LYNN: Divisions in the House of Lords work similarly, where the Lord Speaker will say “As many of that opinion will say content” and those who agree yell “Content”. Those who oppose the motion are then asked to say so when the Lord Speaker asks “Of the contrary not content" and those who oppose will say “Not Content”.

MR SPEAKER:”The question is that new clause 14 be added to the Bill. As many as are of that opinion say “Aye” [cries of “Aye!”]. Of the contrary “no” [cries of “No!”]. Division, clear the lobby.”- Report Stage of the Children and Social Work Bill

[Lords], House of Commons Chamber, Tuesday 7 March 2017

GARY: If there’s clearly no consensus, at that point, the Speaker in the Commons says, "Division. Clear the lobbies." or in the Lords the Lord Speaker will say “Division. Clear the bar”.

LYNN: Then the division bell starts ringing

<<SFX DIVISION BELL RINGING>>

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At that moment, members physically divide with those in support of whatever the issue happens to be going to the Aye or Content lobby, and those against it going to the No or Not Content lobby. Wherever you are in Parliament, you hear the division bell for the House you sit in ringing and MPs or Lords have eight minutes to get to the division lobbies before the doors are shut… and locked.

And if an MP or member of the House of Lords hasn’t made it to the lobby within 8 minutes, they’ve missed the vote!

MEERA:That’s it for this episode. We’ve covered some of the ways that the Government is held to account by Parliament and made to answer for its decisions.

Next time, we’re going beyond the Chambers to find out about the select committees that are appointed in both Houses to examine government policies in detail and investigate the work of Government departments.

If you want to find out more about the UK Parliament and the Government, why not have a look online at www.parliament.uk?

That’s here you can find out more about what’s happening in the House of Commons and the

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House of Lords as well as the history of Parliament, and how to visit.

If you’d like to hear some parliamentary debate, you can hear the Prime Minister’s Question Time Podcast by searching for UK Parliament on SoundCloud.

You can also follow Parliament on Facebook at ukparliament and at @ukparliament on Twitter.

And if you have a specific question about the work of Parliament, you can pick up the phone! The House of Commons Enquiry Service can be reached for free on 0800 112 4272. The House of Lords Enquiry Service is on 0800 223 0855 – also free. Callers with a text phone can talk through Text Relay by calling 18001 followed by either of those full numbers.

Thanks for listening to “Parliament Explained”. I hope you’ve enjoyed the programme.

To make sure you never miss an episode, you can subscribe to the programme on your podcast app so that it downloads automatically every Monday. Until next time, I’m Meera Syal.

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