One more on Magi Astrology

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27290&highlight=progression

Important Facts You Should Know About Magi Astrology:

1. Analyses of over 75,000 charts of married couples has been conducted, in order to arrive at their conclusions about what constitutes true love and marriage between people astrologically. The results revealed unequivocally, that Chiron is the planet of relationships and marriage.

2. With proper training and usage of Magi concepts, results of this system of astrology have shown an over 77% rate of accuracy. Not only does this go far beyond the requirements of being scientifically significant, but no other method of astrology has ever been able to offer or support such similar results themselves.

3. In order to fully be able to benefit from learning Magi Astrology, it is best to completely clear your mind of any other forms of astrology you have previously learned, and virtually make your mind a 'clean slate' -- otherwise referred to in ancient times as a 'tabula rasa'... in other words, a blank page.

The main reason for this is that the essential structure, many of the concepts, planets of importance, definitions, terminologies, and the charts that are used themselves, are or can be completely different from what you have learned in other methods of astrology.

4. Magi Astrology uses 4 dimensions of charts, in order to arrive at its analyses of anything; unlike other forms of astrology which only use 1 dimension. It is understood through this system, that 75% of the information needed in order to arrive at an accurate conclusion about anything from relationships to house purchasing questions, is missing from other forms of astrology.

Magi astrology refers to the conjunction, trine, quincunx, parallel, contra-parallel -- as enhancement aspects.

Special Chiron enhancement linkages, are:

Chiron/Venus, Chiron/Jupiter, Chiron/Neptune, Chiron/Pluto, and Chiron/Sun.

These aspects have a special name, and are called 'Cinderella Linkages'. These linkages are the ones most indicative of

someone potentially being your Soulmate and someone that you could marry, but many other requirements need to be met as well,

in order for this to be the case.

Chiron/Chiron, generally indicates synchronized destinies, strong mutual bonds and similarity between the two of you.

Any clash aspect to Chiron (these include the square and opposition of any planet, and also the quincunx and

contra-parallel if it is Saturn) are indications of incompatibility and stress between two people. If a couple form too many chiron clashes, their relationship is likely to end in heartbreak or similar.

The worst of these is the Chiron/Saturn clash, which is so bad it has a special name and is called the 'Heartbreak Clash'. This clash increases the odds of break-up, and divorce if married, to incredibly high proportions, and it is usually the person who contributes the Saturn who is the one to cause the heartbreak.

Both the Sun/Chiron and Moon/Chiron clash, are called the 'Wrong Person Clash'. This clash can be a very good indication that this is not your soulmate, but again depends on many other factors as well.

The Venus/Chiron clash also has a special name, and is called the 'Impossible Dream Clash'. It is an 'impossible dream'

because it is rare for two people with this clash to get married. Marriage can happen though, especially if either person was born with a square or opposition to Chiron. Research has however revealed that 85% of couples with this clash end up in divorce.

Magi Astrology generally does not use the composite method for relationship analysis, although you can obviously use it as an additional method if you so choose. The Magi Society does not tell people to stop using their other methods of astrology, it just states that they should really take a look at what this has to offer (not that you indicated this as a concern in your post Neptune, but I am including this for others who have mentioned such feelings before).

As you know, a composite chart is made up of the MIDPOINTS between two planets, of two people's charts -- one planet from each chart. Though M-A does not use this means, it does however consider MIDPOINTS to be very important in the individual charts themselves.

The M-A concept for this states that: The MIDPOINTS that the planets make in any of the 4 dimensions for charts, are considered as having the equivalency to actual planets themselves.

Although all the midpoints act as planets, there are 3 specific Midpoints that M-A considers to be the most relevant and having the most potent effect and reaction.

These are the Midpoints of: Jupiter/Chiron, Jupiter/Saturn, Saturn/Chiron.

When any of the important Romance Planets - Venus, Jupiter, Neptune, or Chiron - make an enhancement aspect to Jupiter/Chiron, this is considered a Cinderella Linkage, just like any of the others would be.

The Jupiter/Saturn point is considered the Nuclear Clash point, and the Saturn/Chiron point is considered the Heartbreak Clash point. Clashes from these

midpoints react in a like manner as to their originating counterparts, and create new mutations with certain other planets, as for example Jupiter/Saturn in aspect to Chiron resulting in a 'Nuclear Heartbreak Clash'. These again, are considered to behave in a similar manner as the typical linkages the planets themselves would make between charts.

Midpoints are also used for 'Day Charts', and other charts of importance, such as the opening of a business, or meeting someone else for the first time; just as with all the other planets between the 2 individual charts.

Hope this provides everyone more good insight into what Magi Astrology is all about.

The 4 Dimensions & Accepted Orbs of Magi Astrology

Dimension 1

Geo Longitudes

Orb: 3*00

Dimension 2

Geo Declinations

Orb: 1*12" = 1.20 decimal

Dimension 3

Helio Longitudes

Orb: 3*00

Dimension 4

Helio Latitudes

Orb: 0*18" = 0.30 decimal

To provide a general insight about this aspect for learning purposes, the Chiron-Uranus aspect within a natal chart, indicates a person who either shys away from, or is unwilling to marry. A good example of a person with this aspect is Oprah Winfrey, who refused to marry longtime boyfriend Steadman (they are separated now), and says that she does not want to get married in general. The funny thing about this aspect though, is that most of the people who have it do not realize, or have just not come to terms with how much they really are afraid of deep, committed intimacy, with another person (not directing any of this at you at all Orange, this is specificaly just for information purposes about this aspect).

Interestingly, once Chiron/Uranus people do have this epiphany about themselves, that is exactly the time that they may be able to make the step to take control of this anxiety, and finally be able to settle down with someone (I have a friend who just turned 43 this past year, and has only now been able to make a real commitment to someone else).

This should obviously not be taken as the standard for everyone's chart though, as it really depends on what other aspects someone has to their Chiron, and other romance planets as well. Many people who have this aspect do in fact get married (although it is quite often at a later age in their lives, such as in the case of my friend and others that I know).

The M-A definition for Uranus, is known as the planet of independence, rebelliousness, unconventionality and freedom, as well as many other symbolisms, which I will not mention right now since they do not apply to this particular question.

The Magi system that has been publicly released, does not use the same structure for charts that traditional astrology uses; there are no ascendant/descendant, or MC/IC designated points, in order to make those types of aspects to. At this time, the Magi Society wishes to emphasize the importance of Planetary Geometry to everyone, and that there is no need for a birth time in order to extract accurate information from a chart. It is because of the importance of this that they keep the ASC/MC chart structures that they do utilize, as internal knowledge for the time being.

I am aware that some of you already understand the concept of natalization; but for others and newcomers, I thought it best to define this theory clearly, so that everyone may be on the same page together.

THEORY OF NATALIZATION

The Magi Society's Theory of Natalization, applies to whenever anyone engages in any type of activity for the very first time.

For example, when two people meet for the first time, the birth chart of that time is the birth chart of their relationship. If the chart is positive, their relationship is more likely to be successful, than if the chart is negative.

However, there is more to natalization than just the birth chart of what is natalized. When we natalize something, we not only natalize the birth chart -- we also natalize the transits.

When we natalize anything of importance, we make permanent the transits we were having during the natalization. When two people meet for the first time, they natalize BOTH the birth chart of the day that they met AND also all of their transits at the time they met. They will continue to be influenced by those preserved transits for as long as they are together and throughout their relationship.

Preserving good or bad transits, will continue to affect us in everything we do that is related to what we natalized.

So, it is well advised to preserve the good transits you have when you get the opportunity, and to just be patient and let the bad transits pass without natalizing anything of importance.

The time orb that is considered for a complete transit to take place for natalization, is within 3* before the exact aspect takes place, up to 3* after the transit makes exact contact. There are special circumstances that can alter the frame of orb, such as what was discussed at the beginning of this thread, concerning combined geometry.

Since you have asked so many questions, I will address each in point form, so as to make them easily identifiable to everyone here.

1. In M-A, the moon is only used if certain upon having an accurate birth time, or it is not taken into consideration for the analysis. This is due to the strict adherence of the orb needing to be within a 3* radius. If accurate, the Moon does have significance, but because it is not imperative to have in order to still be able to attain extremely relevant information about whatever issue it is that you are taking into consideration, then it only makes logical sense that the nodes can only be utilized under the same conditions. So, they would more often be used for something like a business opening, where the time can be carefully recorded. One of the most important times that Nodes are used in M-A, is in their form of Financial astrology.

2. Their meanings for Lilith have not yet been revealed to the public.

3. Again, many methodologies, hypothetical planets, and high technological advances in M-A, are not shared with the public or have not been allowed to be released at this time, but may well be in the future.

4. Other little known planets, asteroids, etc., that the Magi Society consider relevant in their approach, are: Juno, Vesta, Pallas, Ceres, Sappho, and as

mentioned, Sedna; which are used in natal and synastry assessment, as well as for finance. In synastry, Sedna indicates immorality and emotionless attitude.

5. Many people are not aware of this, but much of the information regarding astrological and metapyshical knowledge, was commonly shared and imported to different areas within the middle east, asia, and surrounding territories, in the distant past. Many of the methods that now appear to be 'isolated' concepts within certain nations and/or cultures, are not so much so as they would seem.

In the case of Magi Astrology, although originating with Chinese monks, their attitude towards astrological education and awareness, was and is, one of progressiveness, openess, higher spiritual insight, and the most advanced technologies available at the time.

As the strength and uniqueness of the approach of M-A, is based on their revelations of geometrical configurations, and the keys to the universe that they possess; it is plain to see that 'animal meanings' and limited elemental evaluations, just can not, and would not meet the standard.

As they do not even focus on western definitions of the signs i.e. Aries, Taurus, Gemini, etc., which describe 'monthly' births; how much less so, would 'year' definitions of animals be of worth to them... ?

6. As understood from the above, I think that it is clear that the Magi Society is fundamentally not at all about resistance to change, but about locating, identifying and utilizing, the highest means of astrological interpretation, and wisdom of the planets available to those that seek it.

The universe IS 3-dimensional (actually, many more dimensions than that, but I'll leave the higher metaphysics conversation for another thread lol), which would seem to be common sense to most, but for some bizarre reason there still remain a number of die-hard mainstream astrologers, who appear to be having a very hard time getting their heads around the concept of the legitimacy and mind-altering accuracy of having 4 chart dimensions in astrology. A shame really, since they are missing out on 2/3 of the information needed in order to make a complete astrological assessment of whatever it is that they are inquiring about!

As far as asteroids and the nodes are concerned, as mentioned, many are used in M-A, yet typically have very different meanings than what some of their myths purport -- which I find very reasonable, considering that they are stories that have been built and altered over time. Whereas in the case of the planets themselves, we are talking about various mixtures of energy forms and the impact they have on unique creatures, events, and things. The nodes for instance, are often used in financial astrology, but again in the M-A perspective. As for providing you with all their meanings, I think that you will find that you will easily discover those things for yourself in a very short time

The Magi Society does emphasize that the aspects/geometry in one's natal chart, are all 'gifts' of some kind or another. In the long run however, they do not deny the fact that negative astrology will have an impact of some sort on the native and/or their life. In other words, anything the Gods bless you with at birth can be used for good, or for bad, and of course anything in between; but adverse energy is going to come out in some way at some time. Your Saturn position, however, is not creating an activation, so it is viewed as more of a bonding or constraining type of energy, rather than one of heartbreak and destruction.

So, in your case, we are looking at a person - the Sun - who tends to be rather controlling - Saturn - in some of the most relevant areas of their life, such as relationships, health, and how they make their money - Chiron - and manages to do this through higher learning and a philosophical approach - Jupiter.

Hope this gives you a handle on your kite lol and happy reading.

Chiron really is a 'planet' of wonders and miracles it would seem, and has brought a tremendous understanding about so many things astrologers did not know the answers to throughout the ages. Those positive Chiron connections we have with others, really often do make the difference between those we will click with, and those who can be a challenge for us to find a common language with, so to speak.

Just a general note on astrological research here - as I have experienced it.

(It's a pity I don't have my website up anymore, because I explained the following with neat pictures and all there...)

What confounds scientists about astrology is that the standard mathematical function does not work for astrology:

y = f(x)

For this to be a real function, one and only one value y shall be derived for any x entered.

This could be - in the perfect astrological/scientific world...

Death = f(Saturn); or Marriage=f(Chiron)...

Obviously, it does not work like that - or the scientific community would have "got" astrology a long time ago....

Part of the 'problem' is that many planets have hordes of meanings, and that these meanings sometimes "appear to conflict".

For instance, Mars and Venus, planets that most often appear to have 'opposing' meanings can conjoin meaningwise - as in 'victory in war' which can be denoted by both Mars and Venus.

Similarly, Chiron has a range of possible meanings that can appear to conflict: Marriage, reincarnation, past lifes, and - as I have seen it, death.

(I don't know if the MS lists death as a meaning, as such, but I have seen it.) Saddam Hussein, for instance, was hanged when t Chiron exactly squared his sun. A friend timed the hanging down to the minute, or so, using Chiron...

I believe it really helps to study the mythology of Chiron: and I see the marriage component as coming from the essence of a centaur, the 'marriage' between animal and human. And if you think about it, there is a 'death' component in marriage (going a bit esoteric here) but your previous, unmarried life kinda dies when you marry, n'est pas?

There is also the blending of "meaning" - switching of roles - that appeared when Chiron and Prometeus made their deal... it would be impossible to tell Chiron's tale

without including Prometeus - and vice versa. That's another marriage between two 'individuals..'

Anyways, my musings on Chiron meanings aside...

The interesting fact is that any event that happens to us, a business, or a plane, has to be presaged by the stars. And because many different stars, planets can generate death, for instance, a researcher has to be open to turning the y=f(x) equation 90 degrees. Instead of 'going in' with an x value, you go in with the y value.

So, if y is "death" you will, and I always find it, find an 'x' that satisfies the equation: this can be: saturn, chiron, pluto, uranus - and in some cases, jupiter, actually. Crazy, huh?

At times it can even be MDXs - midpoint transits...

Frank, I understand your interest in plane crashes. I find them amazing - I have looked at quite a few, and I also look as ship sinkings (war ships included) - and I always use the launch/ first flight chart of the actual plane as the birth chart.

It's also fun to look at the first flight chart for successful plane models, the Boeing 737 being case in point. If you look at this chart, you will see some very basic Magi Astrology aspects "bearing true".

Cheers,

Sven

Actually, I thoroughly refute that point, and have extensive schooling in the sciences to know as such -- that there are and have been MANY substantial discoveries, inventions, laboratory experiments, and the like, that the exact techniques and anatomical structures will never be revealed to the public, for various personal, ethical, and legal reasons. They are called private property and/or patents, or in some cases just straight up buy-outs for a reason, and if the owner so chooses not to make it public knowledge - for whatever their reasons for doing so - it is their RIGHT to do so. So that statement just does not hold a drop of water with me.

Which if you stopped for a second to consider, makes perfect sense in regards to the Magi Society, which was founded in secret by monks in the 1600's! Having such ancient, sacred and profound knowledge as theirs, is definitely not something that should be carelessly thrown out to the dogs to be torn apart and played around with; as is the case with anything of real great worth.

Which again brings me to my previous point, that though you may want to repeat the findings of this research, it appears that you have still not been able to secure the requirements of the Society in order to retain this information. Which I would venture at this time to make the educated guess, that it may seem rather evident to them, as it does to me already, that this is not a pursuit of honour for this genre of Astrology for you, but rather more a course of rebellion at this point, in their not fulfilling your demands to be instantly handed over the results of this most relevant discovery made in astrology for literally decades.

If you had sincerely wanted this research of good intention, you would have done whatever you could to meet the standards of the Society in order to obtain it. Just nagging at them that you want their material obviously does not work, so why do you persist in arguing about your lack of having it? Wouldn't it be much less a waste of time for everyone, if you just met their requirements... ??

As I said at the beginning of this thread, I have no use for jealousy or defensiveness over the proclamations, principles, concepts or techniques of this scientific Astrology. It doesn't seem to me like you have spent a second trying to learn these methods, work with them, or gain any kind of substantial experience from their revelatory knowledge. It's even more curious for me to see you complain about replicating their research, when there are no other forms of astrology that even offer any solid and/or reputable applications, that can be consistently replicated under any circumstances, whether empirically guided or privately performed!

So, from my perspective, Frank, this particular conversation appears to be over. Thank you for coming by to check out the thread

For starters, the Magi Society use four times the standard info to the 'normal' astrologer: geo long, geo deks, helio long and lats. They then have a different interp system. And that's assuming you're wierd enough to do astrology in the first place.

Currently, I am doing some astrology that 'scares' even the acest astrologers I know. I gone past being scared myself, although I thought I was losing it for a while.

Astrology, in the greater sense - but more importantly, your relationship to it will always evolve. It is a path of knowledge, and I you never come to the 'path ends' sign.

While I was one of the ealiest supporters of the Magi Society - since 1997 - I am not certified, and I am unlikely to ever be. But I now 'think' Magi Astrolog naturally, while I also think Koch houses, mythology and all else.

If I see a Jupiter-Pluto aspect, a Mercury-Pluto one, the images come naturally.

What is it for?

At the end of the day, the answer for me is knowledge: I only know two people who have saved their lives from listening to an astrologer - and yes, one was me listening to myself. Most people don't.

It's as if people, in general, have to run into these brick walls; they then go see an astrologer, who tells them about the brick wall. Great.

We astrologers tend to do the same. X died because...

It takes courage, and a lot of knowledge - unless you are a moron - to start living it. And the dastardly thing keeps changing anyway, as in the discovery of Sedna and so forth.

It's a helluva path to be on, and I wouldn't miss it for the world.

At the same time, we have to be honest with ourselves. Is astrology a way to 'make ourselves interesting' - assuming we can't get on the 'Next Top Model'.

If you're doing it for the 'image' then I have news for you. Or if you are 'doing astrology because you are a misfit'. Astrologers are becoming so fashionable they are going out of fashion. Knowledge never does go out of fashion though - but its a trip to get there.