National Fire Protection Association Report · PDF fileAWWA C104, Cement Mortar Lining for...

Public Comment No. 20-NFPA 24-2014 [ Section No. 2.3.2 ]

2.3.2 ASTM Publications.

ASTM International, 100 Barr Harbor Drive, P.O. Box C700, West Conshohocken, PA 19428-2959.

ASTM A 234/A 234M , Specification for Piping Fittings of Wrought Carbon Steel and Alloy Steel for Moderate and ElevatedTemperatures, 2007 2013e1 .

ASTM A 53/A 53M Standard Specification for Pipe, Steel, Black and Hot-Dipped, Zinc-Coated, Welded and Seamless, 2001 2012 .

ASTM A 135/A135M Standard Specification for Electric-Resistance- Welded Steel Pipe, 2001 09(2014) .

ASTM A 795/A 795M Standard Specification for Black and Hot-Dipped Zinc-Coated (Galvanized)Welded and Seamless Steel Pipefor Fire Protection Use, 2000 2013 .

ASTM B 16.5 Cast Bronze Threaded Fittings, 1985. ??

ASTM B 43 Specification for Seamless Red Brass Pipe, 2009.

ASTM B 75, Specification for Seamless Copper Tube, 2002 2011 .

ASTM B 88, Specification for Seamless Copper Water Tube, 2003 2009 .

ASTM B 251, Requirements for Wrought Seamless Copper and Copper-Alloy Tube, 2002 2010 .

IEEE/ASTM-SI-10, Standard for Use of the International System of Units (SI): The Modern Metric System, 2002 2010 .

Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Comment

Update year dates

Related Item

First Revision No. 20-NFPA 24-2013 [Chapter A]

Submitter Information Verification

Submitter Full Name: Steve Mawn

Organization: ASTM International

Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip:

Submittal Date: Thu May 15 15:14:23 EDT 2014

Committee Statement

Committee Action: Rejected but see related SR

Resolution: SR-19-NFPA 24-2014

Statement: Update year dates. The deleted standard is an ASME Standard, not an ASTM Standard.

National Fire Protection Association Report http://submittals.nfpa.org/TerraViewWeb/ContentFetcher?commentPara...

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2.3.3 AWWA Publications.

American Water Works Association, 6666 West Quincy Avenue, Denver, CO 80235.

AWWA C104, Cement Mortar Lining for Ductile Iron Pipe and Fittings for Water, 2008.

AWWA C105, Polyethylene Encasement for Ductile Iron Pipe Systems, 2005.

AWWA C110, Ductile Iron and Gray Iron Fittings, 2008.

AWWA C111, Rubber-Gasket Joints for Ductile Iron Pressure Pipe and Fittings, 2000.

AWWA C115, Flanged Ductile Iron Pipe with Ductile Iron or Gray Iron Threaded Flanges, 2005.

AWWA C116, Protective Fusion-Bonded Epoxy Coatings for the Interior and Exterior Surfaces of Ductile-Iron and Gray-Iron Fittingsfor Water Supply Service , 2003.

AWWA C150, Thickness Design of Ductile Iron Pipe, 2008.

AWWA C151, Ductile Iron Pipe, Centrifugally Cast for Water, 2002.

AWWA C153, Ductile-Iron Compact Fittings for Water Service, 2006.

AWWA C200, Steel Water Pipe 6 in. and Larger , 2005.

AWWA C203, Coal-Tar Protective Coatings and Linings for Steel Water Pipelines Enamel and Tape — Hot Applied , 2002.

AWWA C205, Cement-Mortar Protective Lining and Coating for Steel Water Pipe 4 in. and Larger— Shop Applied , 2007.

AWWA C206, Field Welding of Steel Water Pipe , 2003.

AWWA C207, Steel Pipe Flanges for Waterworks Service — Sizes 4 in. Through 144 in., 2007.

AWWA C208, Dimensions for Fabricated Steel Water Pipe Fittings, 2007.

AWWA C300, Reinforced Concrete Pressure Pipe, Steel-Cylinder Type, 2004.

AWWA C301, Prestressed Concrete Pressure Pipe, Steel-Cylinder Type, 2007.

AWWA C302, Reinforced Concrete Pressure Pipe, Non-Cylinder Type, 2004.

AWWA C303, Reinforced Concrete Pressure Pipe, Steel-Cylinder Type, Pretensioned, 2002.

AWWA C400, Standard for Asbestos-Cement Distribution Pipe, 4 in. Through 16 in. (100 mm through 400 mm), for Water DistributionSystems, 2003.

AWWA C600, Standard for the Installation of Ductile Iron Water Mains and Their Appurtenances, 2005.

AWWA C602, Cement-Mortar Lining of Water Pipe Lines 4 in. and Larger — in Place, 2006.

AWWA C603, Standard for the Installation of Asbestos-Cement Pressure Pipe, 2005.

AWWA C900, Polyvinyl Chloride (PVC) Pressure Pipe, 4 in. Through 12 in., for Water Distribution, 2007.

AWWA C905, AWWA Standard for Polyvinyl Chloride (PVC) Pressure Pipe and Fabricated Fittings, 14 in. Through 48 in. (350 mmThrough 1200 mm), 2010.

AWWA C906, Polyethylene (PE) Pressure Pipe and Fittings, 4 in. (100 mm) Through 63 in. (1575 mm) for Water Distribution, 2007.

AWWA C909, Molecularly Oriented Polyvinyl Chloride (PVCO) Pressure Pipe, 4 in. through 24 in. (100 mm through 600 mm), forWater, Wastewater, and Reclaimed Water Service2010

AWWA M11, A Guide for Steel Pipe Design and Installation, 4th edition, 2004.


Reference is made to the statement of problem and substantiation of Public Comment No. 2-NFPA 24-2014.

Related Public Comments for This Document

Related Comment Relationship

Public Comment No. 2-NFPA 24-2014 [Section No. 10.1.1.1] Concordance

Related Item

First Revision No. 19-NFPA 24-2013 [Chapter 10]


Submitter Full Name: Ariel Carp

Organization: On my behalf

Affilliation: On my behalf

Street Address:


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City:

State:

Zip:

Submittal Date: Wed May 07 19:08:28 EDT 2014

Committee Statement

Committee Action: Accepted


Statement: Reference is made to the statement of problem and substantiation of Public Comment No. 2-NFPA 24-2014.


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Public Comment No. 15-NFPA 24-2014 [ Chapter 5 ]

Chapter 5 Water Supplies


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5.1* Connection to Waterworks Systems.

5.1.1

A connection to a reliable waterworks system shall be an acceptable water supply source.

5.1.2*

The volume and pressure of a public water supply shall be determined from waterflow test data or other approved method.

5.2 Size of Fire Mains.

5.2.1 Private Fire Service Mains.

Hydraulic calculations shall show that the main is able to supply the total demand at the appropriate pressure for systems withmultiple hydrants.

5.2.2 Mains Not Supplying Hydrants.

For mains that do not supply hydrants, pipe sizes less than 6 in. (152 mm) nominal size shall be permitted to be used subject to thefollowing restrictions:

(1) The main shall supply only the following types of systems:

(a) Automatic sprinkler systems

(b) Open sprinkler systems

(c) Water spray fixed systems

(d) Foam systems

(e) Standpipe systems

(2) Hydraulic calculations shall show that the main is able to supply the total demand at the appropriate pressure.

(3) Systems that are not hydraulically calculated shall have a main at least as large as the riser.

5.3 Pressure-Regulating Devices and Meters.

5.3.1

Pressure-regulating valves shall not be used.

5.3.1.1

Pressure-regulating valves shall be permitted to be used when acceptable to the AHJ.

5.3.2

Where meters are required they shall be listed.

5.4* Connection from Waterworks Systems.

5.4.1

The requirements of the public health AHJ shall be determined and followed.

5.4.2

Where a backflow prevention device is installed to guard against possible cross-contamination of the public water system, it shall belisted for fire protection service.

5.4.2.1*

Where a check valve or alarm check valve is permitted by the AHJ in lieu of a backflow preventer, it shall be listed for fire protectionservice.

5.5 Connections to Public Water Systems.

Connections to public water systems shall be arranged to be isolated by one of the methods permitted in 6.2.9.

5.6* Pumps.

Fire pump units installed in accordance with NFPA 20and connected to a water supply source complying with Sections5.5, 5.7, or5.8 shall use an acceptable water supply source.

5.7 Tanks.

Tanks shall be installed in accordance with NFPA 22.

5.8 Penstocks, Rivers, Lakes, or Reservoirs.

Water supply connections from penstocks, rivers, lakes, or reservoirs shall be designed to avoid mud and sediment and shall beprovided with approved, double, removable screens or approved strainers installed in an approved manner.

5.9* Remote Fire Department Connections.

5.9.1 General.

Where the AHJ requires a remote fire department connection for systems requiring one by another standard, a fire departmentconnection shall be provided as described in Section 5.9.

5.9.1.1

Fire department connections shall be permitted to be omitted where approved by the AHJ.

5.9.1.2

Fire department connections shall be of an approved type.

5.9.1.3

Fire department connections shall be equipped with approved plugs or caps that are secured and arranged for easy removal by firedepartments.

5.9.1.4

Fire department connections shall be protected where subject to mechanical damage.

5.9.2 Couplings.


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5.9.2.1

The fire department connection(s) shall use an NH internal threaded swivel fitting(s) with an NH standard thread(s.), except aspermitted by 5.9.2.3 and 5.9.2.4.

5.9.2.2

At least one of the connections shall be the 2.5 to 7.5 NH standard thread specified in NFPA 1963.

5.9.2.3

Where local fire department connections use threads that do not conform to NFPA 1963, the AHJ shall designate the thread to beused.

5.9.2.4

Non-threaded couplings shall be permitted where required by the AHJ.

Non-threaded couplings shall be listed for use as permitted in 5.9.2.4.

5.9.3 Valves.

5.9.3.1

A listed check valve shall be installed in the piping from each fire department connection.

5.9.3.2

Control valves shall not be installed in the piping from the fire department connection to the fire service main.

5.9.3.2.1*

Control valves shall be permitted in the system piping downstream of the fire department connection piping.

5.9.4 Drainage.

5.9.4.1

The pipe between the check valve and the outside hose coupling shall be equipped with an approved automatic drain valve.

5.9.4.2

The automatic drain valve shall be installed in a location that permits inspection and testing as required by NFPA 25 and reducesthe likelihood of freezing.

5.9.4.2.1

The automatic drip shall be permitted to be buried where permitted by the AHJ.

5.9.4.2.2

Where the automatic drip is buried as allowed by 5.9.4.2.1, the outlet shall discharge into a bed of crushed stone or pea gravel.

5.9.4.3

An automatic drain valve is permitted to be omitted from areas where the piping is not subject to freezing.

5.9.4.4


5.9.5 Location and Signage.

5.9.5.1*

Remote fire department connections shall be located at the nearest point of fire department apparatus accessibility or at a locationapproved by the AHJ.

5.9.5.2*

Remote fire department connections shall be located and arranged so that hose lines can be attached to the inlets withoutinterference.

5.9.5.3*

Each remote fire department connection shall be designated by a sign as follows:

(1) The sign shall have raised or engraved letters at least 1 in. (25.4 mm) in height on a plate or fitting.

(2)

5.9.5.4

Where the system demand pressure exceeds 150 psi (10.3 bar), a sign located at the fire department connection shall indicate therequired inlet pressure.

5.9.5.5

Where a remote fire department connection only supplies a portion(s) of the building, a sign shall be attached to indicate theportion(s) of the building supplied.

5.9.5.6

Remote fire department connections shall not be connected on the suction side of fire pumps.

5.9.5.7

Where a remote fire department connection services multiple buildings, structures, or locations, a sign shall be provided indicatingthe buildings, structures, or locations served.


CC NOTE: The following CC Note No. 2 appeared in the First Draft Report as First Revision No. 15.

The PRI TC should look at sections 5.9.4.4 and 5.9.4.2.1 to determine if these sections are redundant.

Related Item



* The sign shall indicate the type of system for which the connection is intended.


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Submitter Full Name: CC on AUT-AAC

Organization: CC on Automatic Sprinkler Systems

Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip:

Submittal Date: Tue Apr 29 13:32:47 EDT 2014

Committee Statement



Statement: This language is being deleted because it is already in Section 5.9.4.2.1.


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Public Comment No. 18-NFPA 24-2014 [ New Section after 5.1.2 ]

5.1.3

5.1.3* Where a waterflow test was conducted, the volume and pressure available for use for a fire protection system shall bedetermined from the following formula:

P = (P1 - P2)(Q/Q1)1.85 P2

5.1.3.1 The pressure P shall be what is considered available from the water supply to use for a fire protection system that will becalculated for a given flow demand of Q.

5.1.3.2 The flow Q shall be demand flow of the fire protection system that will be used to calculate the available pressure from thewater supply (P).

5.1.3.3* The variable P1 shall be the residual pressure measured during the waterflow test while the flow Q1 was discharging from

the water supply reduced by the specifying engineer or the water utility for daily and seasonal fluctuations. The reduction shall not bebased on 100 year droughts or other extreme conditions.

5.1.3.4* The variable P2 shall be the static pressure measured during the waterflow test reduced by the specifying engineer or the

water utility for daily and seasonal fluctuations. The reduction shall not be based on 100 year droughts or other extreme conditions.

5.1.3.5 The variable Q1 shall be the flow associated with P1.

5.1.3.6* Where the specifying engineer or the water utility does not provide the value for P1 and P2, see 5.1.3.7.

5.1.3.7* Where a waterflow test has been conducted and the specifying engineer or the water authority does not provide a value forP1 and P2, the value of for P1 and P2 shall be calculated by taking the static pressure and residual pressure results from the flow test

and reducing them by 5%.

Additional Proposed Changes

File Name Description Approved

Water_Supply_Adjustment_Proposal-E_S-24.pdf whole proposal with figures and equations


This is one of a series of proposals to make the adjustment to the data from a waterflow test required instead of recommended. If the adjustment is not required, contractors that do the right thing and adjust the data from tests are at a disadvantage from contractors that don't make any adjustment. It is fundamentally wrong to not make an adjustment to the data due to daily and seasonal fluctuations. This proposal makes a simple and easy to understand adjustment that is standardized so that there is no argument over what is supposed to happen. It is the intent to have this be the only adjustment. If the water utility has already performed the adjustment, or if the AHJ has already mandated a safety margin or safety factor to the waterflow data obtained from the test, this adjustment would not apply.

Related Item

Public Input No. 56-NFPA 24-2013 [New Section after 5.1.2]

Committee Input No. 2-NFPA 24-2013 [New Section after 5.1.2]


Submitter Full Name: Kenneth Isman

Organization: National Fire Sprinkler Association

Affilliation: NFSA E&S Committee

Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip:


Committee Statement

CommitteeAction:

Rejected but see related SR


Statement: The NFPA 13 technical committees have been discussing the need for adjusting waterflow data for several revision cycles. Thisrevision aims to make the adjustment to the data from a waterflow test required instead of recommended. If the adjustment isnot required, contractors that do the right thing and adjust the data from tests are at a disadvantage from contractors that don'tmake any adjustment. It is fundamentally wrong to not make an adjustment to the data due to daily and seasonal fluctuations.


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This makes makes a simple and easy to understand adjustment that is standardized so that there is no argument over what issupposed to happen. It is the intent to have this be the only adjustment. If the water utility has already performed theadjustment, or if the AHJ has already mandated a safety margin or safety factor to the waterflow data obtained from the test, thisadjustment would not apply.


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NFSA Comment to NFPA 13 on Waterflow Test Adjustments

1) Delete A.5.1.2 A.5.1.2 An adjustment to the waterflow test data to account for the following should be made, as appropriate:

(1) Daily and seasonal fluctuations (2) Possible interruption by flood or ice conditions (3) Large simultaneous industrial use (4) Future demand on the water supply system (5) Other conditions that could affect the water supply

2) Insert a new 5.1.3 and annex notes as follows: 5.1.3* Where a waterflow test was conducted, the volume and pressure available for use for a fire protection system shall be determined from the following formula:

( ) 2

85.1

121 P

QQPPP +

−=

5.1.3.1 The pressure P shall be what is considered available from the water supply to use for a fire protection system that will be calculated for a given flow demand of Q. 5.1.3.2 The flow Q shall be demand flow of the fire protection system that will be used to calculate the available pressure from the water supply (P). 5.1.3.3* The variable P1 shall be the residual pressure measured during the waterflow test while the flow Q1 was discharging from the water supply reduced by the specifying engineer or the water utility for daily and seasonal fluctuations. The reduction shall not be based on 100 year droughts or other extreme conditions. 5.1.3.4* The variable P2 shall be the static pressure measured during the waterflow test reduced by the specifying engineer or the water utility for daily and seasonal fluctuations. The reduction shall not be based on 100 year droughts or other extreme conditions. 5.1.3.5 The variable Q1 shall be the flow associated with P1. 5.1.3.6* Where the specifying engineer or the water utility does not provide the value for P1 and P2, see 5.1.3.7. 5.1.3.7* Where a waterflow test has been conducted and the specifying engineer or the water authority does not provide a value for P1 and P2, the value of for P1 and P2 shall be calculated by

taking the static pressure and residual pressure results from the flow test and reducing them by 5%. A.5.1.3 Consider the following example. A waterflow test is conducted at a location where a city water main is going to be tapped for a new sprinkler system. During the test, the static pressure is measured at 70 psi, the residual pressure is measured at 50 psi while 1300 gpm was discharging from a nearby hydrant. The water utility is contacted and they indicate that a reasonable low static pressure accounting for typical daily and seasonal fluctuations in this area is 55 psi and that a reasonable low residual pressure accounting for typical daily and seasonal fluctuations in this area at a flow of 1300 gpm is 35 psi. The equation that describes the water supply available for a fire sprinkler system would be:

( ) 551300

553585.1

+

−=

QP

There are two ways to use this formula. One would be to assume two different values for Q, calculate P and then draw a graph on log 1.85 paper. Any fire sprinkler system demand falling on or below the line on this graph would be acceptable in accordance with NFPA 13 to work with this water supply. In this case, the two easiest flows to pick for Q would be 0 and 1300 gpm. When Q = 0, P is simply 55 psi. When Q = 1300 gpm, P = 35 psi. These two points can be plotted on log 1.85 paper as shown in Figure A.5.1.3. The second way to use this formula would be to calculate the fire protection system and determine the flow necessary to make the system work. Plug this flow into the formula above and see what the available pressure from the water supply will be at that flow. For example, if a sprinkler system connected to this water supply had a demand of 580 gpm, the available pressure from the water supply would be:

( ) 551300

5805535

85.1

+

−=P

P = (-20)(0.225) + 55

P = 50.5 psi

So, as long as the sprinkler system has a pressure demand less than or equal to 50.5 psi, it will work with this water supply.

Figure A.5.1.3 Available Water Supply Curve for Example in Section A.5.1.3

A.5.1.3.3 The purpose of the adjustment required by this section is to take into account reasonable fluctuations that occur on a daily and seasonal basis, but not to burden the building owner with extreme conditions. During an extreme condition such as a water main break or a severe drought, the impaired system provisions of NFPA 25 can be employed to mitigate the circumstances of the extreme condition. The intent of this section is to apply the adjustment to the raw data obtained by the flow test and not to apply adjustments to values that have already been adjusted by water utilities. If a water utility has already provided flow and pressure data for use in the design of fire protection systems that already includes adjustments for daily and seasonal water usage, there is no need to make any additional adjustments to this data. A.5.1.3.4 See annex note A.5.1.3.3. A.5.1.3.6 Water utilities are the entities that know their own supplies the best and know what appropriate adjustments need to be made to flow test data to provide reasonable fire protection. In the potential situation where the water utility will not make a definitive statement with regard to an adjustment, the fire protection engineer is the person that would need to make a statement with respect to adjustments to the raw data from a flow test. Due to the judgment involved in making such a decision, the licensing laws in most states within the United States would require the fire protection engineer to make this determination rather than the fire protection system contractor. It is expected that the engineer would make these statements in the specifications provided to the fire protection system contractor. In the absence of any information from any authority on the subject, section 24.2.2.2.2 provides a standardized method of making a decision. A.5.1.3.7 This section provides a standardized method of making a decision regarding the reduction of the results from a waterflow test to determine what pressure and flow are available from a water supply when the specifying engineer and the water utility have not provided adjustment information. An example of how to use this standardized method follows.

If a waterflow test is conducted at a location where a city water main is going to be tapped for a new sprinkler system and the static pressure is measured at 70 psi, with the residual pressure measured at 50 psi while 1300 gpm was discharging from a nearby hydrant. If there is no information from the specifying engineer or water utility regarding appropriate adjustments, the value of the static pressure and residual pressure need to be reduced by 5%. The static pressure would be adjusted from 70 psi to 66.5 psi (70 x 0.95 = 66.5). The residual pressure at 1300 gpm would be reduced from 50 psi to 47.5 psi (70 x 0.95 = 47.5). The results would be plotted on log 1.85 graph paper as shown in the lower curve on Figure A.5.1.3.7 and that curve would represent what the fire protection system contractor could use for a fire protection system.

Figure A.5.1.3.7 Available Water Supply Curve for Example in Section A.5.1.3.7


5.2.1 Private Fire Service Mains.

Hydraulic calculations shall show that the main is able to supply the total demand at the appropriate pressure for systems withmultiple hydrants .


The current wording appears to infer that pressures and flow are not material for single fire hydrant installations. A 6" line may be completely insufficient to supply a single hydrant at the end of a long dead end with a high fire flow condition. The PC removes the multiple hydrant constraint.

Related Item



Submitter Full Name: Anthony Apfelbeck

Organization: Altamonte Springs Building/Fire Safety Division

Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip:

Submittal Date: Thu Feb 20 21:04:49 EST 2014

Committee Statement

CommitteeAction:

Accepted


Statement: The current wording appears to infer that pressures and flow are not material for single fire hydrant installations. A 6" line maybe completely insufficient to supply a single hydrant at the end of a long dead end with a high fire flow condition. The PCremoves the multiple hydrant constraint.


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5.3.2

Where meters are required they shall be listed for fire protection .


It is important to indicate the listing needs to be for fire protection.

Related Item



Submitter Full Name: Peter Schwab

Organization: Wayne Automatic Fire Sprinkler

Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip:

Submittal Date: Fri Apr 18 16:06:56 EDT 2014

Committee Statement

CommitteeAction:

Accepted


Statement: It is important to indicate the listing needs to be for fire protection. The word "service" was added to the proposed languagein PC-6 for consistency with the remainder of the standard.


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Public Comment No. 13-NFPA 24-2014 [ Section No. 5.9.2.4 ]

5.9.2.4


5.9.2.4.1 Non-threaded couplings shall be listed for use as permitted in 5 . 9.2.4.



LGK_NFPA_24-2013_Comment_5-9-2-4.pdf PC Form


Editorial. The two separate provisions should be written in two separate sections. Additionally, as written in the First Draft Report, the second sentence of Section 5.9.2.4 is referring to its own section number.

Related Item



Submitter Full Name: Larry Keeping

Organization: Professional Loss Control

Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip:

Submittal Date: Thu Apr 24 13:50:51 EDT 2014

Committee Statement

CommitteeAction:



Statement: The two separate provisions should be written in two separate sections. Additionally, as written in the First Draft Report, thesecond sentence of Section 5.9.2.4 is referring to its own section number.


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5.9.2.4


5.9.2.4.1

Non-threaded couplings shall be listed for use as permitted in 5.9.2.4.


Manual of Style

Related Item





Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip:


Committee Statement

CommitteeAction:



Statement: The two separate provisions should be written in two separate sections. Additionally, as written in the First Draft Report, thesecond sentence of Section 5.9.2.4 is referring to its own section number.


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Public Comment No. 14-NFPA 24-2014 [ Sections 5.9.4.2, 5.9.4.3, 5.9.4.4 ]

Sections 5.9.4.2, 5.9.4.3, 5.9.4.4

5.9.4.2

The automatic drain valve shall be installed in a location that permits inspection and testing as required by NFPA 25 and reduces thelikelihood of freezing.

5.9.4. 2.1


5.9.4.2.2

Where the automatic drip is buried as allowed by 5.9.4.2.1 , the outlet shall discharge into a bed of crushed stone or pea gravel.

5.9.4. 3

An automatic drain valve is permitted to be omitted from areas where the piping is not subject to freezing.

5.9.4.4






Neither PI No. 19 nor PI No.45 requested the text for 5.9.4.4. It appears to be a typographic error and it is redundant to the text proposed for 5.9.4.2.1, so it should be deleted.Regarding 5.9.4.2.1 and 5.9.4.2.2, this proposed text that would allow an automatic drain (ball drip) to be buried is contrary to the leading requirement 5.9.4.2 to make it accessible, as required by NFPA 25. If it is buried, it cannot be accessed.There is no reason to bury an automatic drain. Its function is to catch leakage from the Fire Department Connection’s check valve if subject to freezing. Since NFPA 13 in Section 8.17.2.5.1 requires that the check valve must be installed in an accessible location, it cannot be buried. As per NFPA 13, A.8.16.1.1.3 check valves should be “made accessible accessible for maintenance. This can be accomplished by a valve pit or any means that renders the valve accessible.” Therefore, there is no reason to allow the corresponding ball drip to be buried.Further a ball drip is not required unless the FDC piping is subject to freezing, and buried FDC piping would not be subject to freezing unless it was buried at too shallow a depth. So again, there is no reason to bury the automatic drain/ball drip.Thus, 5.9.4.2.1 and 5.9.4.2.2 should also be deleted.

Related Item

Public Input No. 18-NFPA 24-2012 [New Section after 5.9.4.2]

Public Input No. 19-NFPA 24-2012 [Section No. 5.9.4.3]

Public Input No. 45-NFPA 24-2013 [Section No. 5.9.4.3]




Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip:


Committee Statement

CommitteeAction:

Rejected

Resolution: Many AHJ's require that fire department connections (FDC) are remote. NFPA suggests that the check valve for the FDC belocated as close to the connection to the system as possible. This could leave long sections of underground piping with nopressure. This piping could get cut and one will not know about it until an NFPA 25 inspection is performed or the fire departmentpumps into the connection. Many AHJ's want water brought as close to the FDC as possible to avoid this situation. By requiringaccess to the ball drip, this could require a vault or deep meter box costing hundreds of dollars. This new section gives the AHJan allowance to require the automatic drip close to the FDC and still have water on the underground piping for supervision.5.9.5.4 Almost all the fire department connection plates indicating the connection type (autosprinkler, standpipe or both) arebought directly from the fire department connection manufacturers. Engraving these with the required inlet pressure isimpractical. Also, since the sign referred to requires one inch high letters, it could be construed that the pressure informationshould also be the same size. In the fire sprinkler business, when a higher pressure requirement must be posted, we havecustom made signs produced and placed on or at the FDC.


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5.9.4.4



This language is already in Section 5.9.4.2.1

Related Item





Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip:


Committee Statement



Statement: This language is being deleted because it is already in Section 5.9.4.2.1.


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6.2.1

A valve in accordance with Section 6.1shall be installed in each pipeline from each water supply.

6.2.1.1

Control valves shall not be installed in the piping from the fire department connection to the point it connects to the fire service main.

6.2.1.2

Control valves shall be permitted in the system piping downstream of the fire department connection.


Modified the wording to indicate that the valve downstream of the FDC can only be in system piping.

Related Item

Public Input No. 88-NFPA 24-2013 [Section No. 6.2.2]




Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip:


Committee Statement



Statement: Modified the wording to indicate that the valve downstream of the FDC can only be in system piping.


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10.1.1.1 Listing.


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Piping manufactured in accordance with Table 10.1.1.1 shall be permitted to be used. .

Table 10.1.1.1 Manufacturing Standards for Underground Pipe

Materials and Dimensions Standard

Ductile Iron

Cement Mortar Lining for Ductile Iron Pipe and Fittings for WaterAWWAC104

Polyethylene Encasement for Ductile Iron Pipe SystemsAWWAC105

Rubber-Gasket Joints for Ductile Iron Pressure Pipe and FittingsAWWAC111

Flanged Ductile Iron Pipe with Ductile Iron or Gray Iron Threaded FlangesAWWAC115

Thickness Design of Ductile Iron PipeAWWAC150

Ductile Iron Pipe, Centrifugally Cast for WaterAWWAC151

Standard for the Installation of Ductile Iron Water Mains and Their AppurtenancesAWWAC600

Steel

Steel Water Pipe 6 in. and LargerAWWAC200

Coal-Tar Protective Coatings and Linings for Steel Water Pipelines Enamel and Tape — Hot AppliedAWWAC203

Cement-Mortar Protective Lining and Coating for Steel Water Pipe 4 in. and Larger — Shop AppliedAWWAC205

Field Welding of Steel Water PipeAWWAC206

Steel Pipe Flanges for Waterworks Service — Sizes 4 in. Through 144 in.AWWAC207

Dimensions for Fabricated Steel Water Pipe FittingsAWWAC208

A Guide for Steel Pipe Design and Installation AWWAM11

Concrete

Reinforced Concrete Pressure Pipe, Steel-Cylinder TypeAWWAC300

Prestressed Concrete Pressure Pipe, Steel-Cylinder TypeAWWAC301

Reinforced Concrete Pressure Pipe, Non-Cylinder TypeAWWAC302

Reinforced Concrete Pressure Pipe, Steel-Cylinder Type, PretensionedAWWAC303

Standard for Asbestos-Cement Distribution Pipe, 4 in. Through 16 in., for Water Distribution SystemsAWWAC400

Cement-Mortar Lining of Water Pipe Lines 4 in. and Larger — in PlaceAWWAC602

Plastic

Polyvinyl Chloride (PVC) Pressure Pipe, 4 in. Through 12 in., for Water DistributionAWWAC900

Polyvinyl Chloride (PVC) Pressure Pipe, 14 in. Through 48 in., for Water DistributionAWWAC905

Polyethylene (PE) Pressure Pipe and Fittings, 4 in. (100 mm) Through 63 in. (1575 mm) for Water DistributionAWWAC906

Molecularly Oriented Polyvinyl Chloride (PVCO) 4 in. Through 12 in. (100 mm Through 600 mm) for Water DistributionAWWAC909

Brass

Specification for Seamless Red Brass PipeASTM B43

Copper


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Materials and Dimensions Standard

Specification for Seamless Copper TubeASTM B75

Specification for Seamless Copper Water TubeASTM B88

Requirements for Wrought Seamless Copper and Copper-Alloy TubeASTM B251


Same change is proposed for NFPA 13-2014. See Public Comment No. 222-NFPA 13-2014

Reference is made to First Revision No. 19-NFPA 24-2013 [Chapter 10].

First Revision No. 19-NFPA 24-2013 [Chapter 10] says that to select pipe for underground service there is the ability to use the Table 10.1.1.1 (former Table 10.1.1), the ability to use pipe specifically listed for underground use, and the allowance to use steel pipe between the FDC (Fire Department Connection) and the check valve.This statement is according NFPA 24-2013.

Also the First Revision No. 19-NFPA 24-2013 [Chapter 10] says that the steel piping references were removed from the Table 10.1.1.1 since steel pipe is required to be listed except for the FDC line. This statement is not according NFPA 24-2013.According to NFPA 24-2013:- Steel pipe is not required to be listed except for general underground service.- Steel pipe is required to be listed except for the FDC line and except for not general underground service.

According to NFPA 24-2013, not listed steel can be used for an underground pipe main, when that pipe main is used only for fire service.

The paragraph 10.1.2 of NFPA 24-2013 says:Steel piping shall not be used for general underground service unless specifically listed for such service.

A general service refers to a pipe main that it is used for fire service and also for purposes other than fire service.

Not general service refers to a pipe main that it is used only for fire service and it is not used for other purposes.

Steel piping can be used for general underground service if it is listed.If it is not listed, it can not be used for general underground service.If the service of the pipe main is not general, if it is for fire service only (e.g. it is not used for purposes other than fire service), then steel can be used.For fire service only:- if steel is listed, the proper condition of listing provides the ability to use it. - if steel is not listed, steel can be used (again: for fire service only) because its inclusion in the Table 10.1.1.1 provides the ability to use it.

If steel is removed from the Table 10.1.1.1, the ability to use not listed steel for fire service only, also is removed. Removing steel from Table 10.1.1.1 implies that steel pipe will be required to be listed in order to be used for underground fire service.This is not a current requirement of NFPA 24-2013. Removing steel from Table 10.1.1.1 implies a change to the NFPA 24-2013. Currently there is the ability to use not listed steel for underground fire service only, but as a consequence of the proposal shown in First Revision No. 19-NFPA 24-2013 [Chapter 10], there will not be anymore the ability to use not listed steel for underground fire service. This is a change to the NFPA 24-2013. The statement included in the First Revision No. 19-NFPA 24-2013 [Chapter 10] : “The steel piping references were removed from the table since steel pipe is required to be listed other than in the FDC line”, is not according NFPA 24-2013. As NFPA 24-2013 Annotated explains: “Accordingly, steel pipe can no longer be installed for general underground service, unless it is specially listed for the purpose.” (bold letters included on purpose).

NFPA 24-2013 Annotated also says: “At this time, no such listings are available.” This is also true today. UL and FM does not have steel pipe listed for underground use. There is no expectation that UL and/or FM will list the steel for underground use in the future. To live the ability to use steel for underground use, only if it is listed, introduces a constraint that it will be very difficult or impossible to surmount, and practically converts the steel for underground use in something unreal. To keep questioned the steel for underground use brings the existent firewater piping underground installations into question as well as other pipe underground installations that are made of steel.

It is requested to keep the steel in the Table 10.1.1.1 in order to prevent doing a change whose current substantiation cause and effect that it is seems to not be foreseen in the First Revision No. 19-NFPA 24-2013 [Chapter 10]: steel pipe will not be able to be installed anymore for any underground service.

Related Public Comments for This Document

Related Comment Relationship

Public Comment No. 16-NFPA 24-2014 [Section No. 2.3.3]

Related Item




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Submitter Full Name: Ariel Carp

Organization: On my behalf

Affilliation: On my behalf

Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip:

Submittal Date: Wed Feb 19 16:51:47 EST 2014

Committee Statement

CommitteeAction:

Rejected

Resolution: The document has required steel piping for general underground service to be listed for the last few editions. If steel piping is tobe used, the manufacturers installations instructions would need to be followed. Including the proposed data in the table doesnot add any value since the installation guidelines will cover all essential installation practices. Table 10.1.1.3 sufficientlyaddresses the allowance for the steel piping to be used in the fire department connection piping.


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10.2.1.3

Approved fittings shall be permitted to be used.


There are available fittings on the market that are listed or are in accordance with Table 10.2.1.1. This section allows practically anything as long as it is approved.

Related Item

Public Input No. 39-NFPA 24-2012 [Section No. 10.2]




Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip:


Committee Statement

CommitteeAction:

Accepted


Statement: There are available fittings on the market that are listed or are in accordance with Table 10.2.1.1. This section allowspractically anything as long as it is approved.


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Public Comment No. 11-NFPA 24-2014 [ Section No. 10.4.2.1.7.1 ]

10.4.2.1.7.1

Heat tracing not listed for underground use shall be permitted when piping is installed in accordance with 10.1. 4.2.2.5 .


I believe this is the correct section to reference.

Related Item





Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip:


Committee Statement



Statement: I believe this is the correct section to reference.


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10.5.1.1 *

The requirement of 10 of 10 .6 5 .8 1 shall not preclude the bonding of the underground piping to the lightning protection groundingsystem as required by NFPA 780 in those cases where lightning protection is provided for the structure.





Editorial correction. The reference was not revised during the Chapter 10 rewrite.

Related Item





Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip:


Committee Statement



Statement: Editorial correction. The reference was not revised during the Chapter 10 rewrite.


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Public Comment No. 19-NFPA 24-2014 [ New Section after A.5.1.2 ]

A.5.1.3 Consider the following example. A waterflow test is conducted at a location where a city water main is going to betapped for a new sprinkler system. During the test, the static pressure is measured at 70 psi, the residual pressure ismeasured at 50 psi while 1300 gpm was discharging from a nearby hydrant. The water utility is contacted and they indicatethat a reasonable low static pressure accounting for typical daily and seasonal fluctuations in this area is 55 psi and that areasonable low residual pressure accounting for typical daily and seasonal fluctuations in this area at a flow of 1300 gpm is35 psi. The equation that describes the water supply available for a fire sprinkler system would be:

There are two ways to use this formula. One would be to assume two different values for Q, calculate P and then draw agraph on log 1.85 paper. Any fire sprinkler system demand falling on or below the line on this graph would be acceptablein accordance with NFPA 13 to work with this water supply. In this case, the two easiest flows to pick for Q would be 0 and1300 gpm. When Q = 0, P is simply 55 psi. When Q = 1300 gpm, P = 35 psi. These two points can be plotted on log 1.85paper as shown in Figure A.5.1.3.

The second way to use this formula would be to calculate the fire protection system and determine the flow necessary tomake the system work. Plug this flow into the formula above and see what the available pressure from the water supplywill be at that flow. For example, if a sprinkler system connected to this water supply had a demand of 580 gpm, theavailable pressure from the water supply would be:

P = (-20)(0.225) 55

P = 50.5 psi



A.5.1.3.3 The purpose of the adjustment required by this section is to take into account reasonable fluctuations that occuron a daily and seasonal basis, but not to burden the building owner with extreme conditions. During an extreme conditionsuch as a water main break or a severe drought, the impaired system provisions of NFPA 25 can be employed to mitigatethe circumstances of the extreme condition.

The intent of this section is to apply the adjustment to the raw data obtained by the flow test and not to apply adjustmentsto values that have already been adjusted by water utilities. If a water utility has already provided flow and pressure datafor use in the design of fire protection systems that already includes adjustments for daily and seasonal water usage, thereis no need to make any additional adjustments to this data.

A.5.1.3.4 See annex note A.5.1.3.3.

A.5.1.3.6 Water utilities are the entities that know their own supplies the best and know what appropriate adjustments needto be made to flow test data to provide reasonable fire protection. In the potential situation where the water utility will notmake a definitive statement with regard to an adjustment, the fire protection engineer is the person that would need tomake a statement with respect to adjustments to the raw data from a flow test. Due to the judgment involved in makingsuch a decision, the licensing laws in most states within the United States would require the fire protection engineer tomake this determination rather than the fire protection system contractor. It is expected that the engineer would makethese statements in the specifications provided to the fire protection system contractor. In the absence of any informationfrom any authority on the subject, section 24.2.2.2.2 provides a standardized method of making a decision.

A.5.1.3.7 This section provides a standardized method of making a decision regarding the reduction of the results from awaterflow test to determine what pressure and flow are available from a water supply when the specifying engineer and thewater utility have not provided adjustment information. An example of how to use this standardized method follows.

If a waterflow test is conducted at a location where a city water main is going to be tapped for a new sprinkler system andthe static pressure is measured at 70 psi, with the residual pressure measured at 50 psi while 1300 gpm was dischargingfrom a nearby hydrant. If there is no information from the specifying engineer or water utility regarding appropriateadjustments, the value of the static pressure and residual pressure need to be reduced by 5%.

The static pressure would be adjusted from 70 psi to 66.5 psi (70 x 0.95 = 66.5).

The residual pressure at 1300 gpm would be reduced from 50 psi to 47.5 psi (70 x 0.95 = 47.5).

The results would be plotted on log 1.85 graph paper as shown in the lower curve on Figure A.5.1.3.7 and that curve wouldrepresent what the fire protection system contractor could use for a fire protection system.




Water_Supply_Adjustment_Proposal-E_S-24.pdf Whole comment with equations and figures


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This is one of a series of proposals to make the adjustment to the data from a waterflow test required instead of recommended. If the adjustment is not required, contractors that do the right thing and adjust the data from tests are at a disadvantage from contractors that don't make any adjustment. It is fundamentally wrong to not make an adjustment to the data due to daily and seasonal fluctuations. This proposal makes a simple and easy to understand adjustment that is standardized so that there is no argument over what is supposed to happen. It is the intent to have this be the only adjustment. If the water utility has already performed the adjustment, or if the AHJ has already mandated a safety margin or safety factor to the waterflow data obtained from the test, this adjustment would not apply.

Related Item







Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip:


Committee Statement

CommitteeAction:



Statement: The NFPA 13 technical committees have been discussing the need for adjusting waterflow data for several revision cycles. Thisrevision aims to make the adjustment to the data from a waterflow test required instead of recommended. If the adjustment isnot required, contractors that do the right thing and adjust the data from tests are at a disadvantage from contractors that don'tmake any adjustment. It is fundamentally wrong to not make an adjustment to the data due to daily and seasonal fluctuations.This makes makes a simple and easy to understand adjustment that is standardized so that there is no argument over what issupposed to happen. It is the intent to have this be the only adjustment. If the water utility has already performed theadjustment, or if the AHJ has already mandated a safety margin or safety factor to the waterflow data obtained from the test, thisadjustment would not apply.


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NFSA Comment to NFPA 13 on Waterflow Test Adjustments

1) Delete A.5.1.2 A.5.1.2 An adjustment to the waterflow test data to account for the following should be made, as appropriate:

(1) Daily and seasonal fluctuations (2) Possible interruption by flood or ice conditions (3) Large simultaneous industrial use (4) Future demand on the water supply system (5) Other conditions that could affect the water supply

2) Insert a new 5.1.3 and annex notes as follows: 5.1.3* Where a waterflow test was conducted, the volume and pressure available for use for a fire protection system shall be determined from the following formula:

( ) 2

85.1

121 P

QQPPP +

−=

5.1.3.1 The pressure P shall be what is considered available from the water supply to use for a fire protection system that will be calculated for a given flow demand of Q. 5.1.3.2 The flow Q shall be demand flow of the fire protection system that will be used to calculate the available pressure from the water supply (P). 5.1.3.3* The variable P1 shall be the residual pressure measured during the waterflow test while the flow Q1 was discharging from the water supply reduced by the specifying engineer or the water utility for daily and seasonal fluctuations. The reduction shall not be based on 100 year droughts or other extreme conditions. 5.1.3.4* The variable P2 shall be the static pressure measured during the waterflow test reduced by the specifying engineer or the water utility for daily and seasonal fluctuations. The reduction shall not be based on 100 year droughts or other extreme conditions. 5.1.3.5 The variable Q1 shall be the flow associated with P1. 5.1.3.6* Where the specifying engineer or the water utility does not provide the value for P1 and P2, see 5.1.3.7. 5.1.3.7* Where a waterflow test has been conducted and the specifying engineer or the water authority does not provide a value for P1 and P2, the value of for P1 and P2 shall be calculated by

taking the static pressure and residual pressure results from the flow test and reducing them by 5%. A.5.1.3 Consider the following example. A waterflow test is conducted at a location where a city water main is going to be tapped for a new sprinkler system. During the test, the static pressure is measured at 70 psi, the residual pressure is measured at 50 psi while 1300 gpm was discharging from a nearby hydrant. The water utility is contacted and they indicate that a reasonable low static pressure accounting for typical daily and seasonal fluctuations in this area is 55 psi and that a reasonable low residual pressure accounting for typical daily and seasonal fluctuations in this area at a flow of 1300 gpm is 35 psi. The equation that describes the water supply available for a fire sprinkler system would be:

( ) 551300

553585.1

+

−=

QP

There are two ways to use this formula. One would be to assume two different values for Q, calculate P and then draw a graph on log 1.85 paper. Any fire sprinkler system demand falling on or below the line on this graph would be acceptable in accordance with NFPA 13 to work with this water supply. In this case, the two easiest flows to pick for Q would be 0 and 1300 gpm. When Q = 0, P is simply 55 psi. When Q = 1300 gpm, P = 35 psi. These two points can be plotted on log 1.85 paper as shown in Figure A.5.1.3. The second way to use this formula would be to calculate the fire protection system and determine the flow necessary to make the system work. Plug this flow into the formula above and see what the available pressure from the water supply will be at that flow. For example, if a sprinkler system connected to this water supply had a demand of 580 gpm, the available pressure from the water supply would be:

( ) 551300

5805535

85.1

+

−=P

P = (-20)(0.225) + 55

P = 50.5 psi



A.5.1.3.3 The purpose of the adjustment required by this section is to take into account reasonable fluctuations that occur on a daily and seasonal basis, but not to burden the building owner with extreme conditions. During an extreme condition such as a water main break or a severe drought, the impaired system provisions of NFPA 25 can be employed to mitigate the circumstances of the extreme condition. The intent of this section is to apply the adjustment to the raw data obtained by the flow test and not to apply adjustments to values that have already been adjusted by water utilities. If a water utility has already provided flow and pressure data for use in the design of fire protection systems that already includes adjustments for daily and seasonal water usage, there is no need to make any additional adjustments to this data. A.5.1.3.4 See annex note A.5.1.3.3. A.5.1.3.6 Water utilities are the entities that know their own supplies the best and know what appropriate adjustments need to be made to flow test data to provide reasonable fire protection. In the potential situation where the water utility will not make a definitive statement with regard to an adjustment, the fire protection engineer is the person that would need to make a statement with respect to adjustments to the raw data from a flow test. Due to the judgment involved in making such a decision, the licensing laws in most states within the United States would require the fire protection engineer to make this determination rather than the fire protection system contractor. It is expected that the engineer would make these statements in the specifications provided to the fire protection system contractor. In the absence of any information from any authority on the subject, section 24.2.2.2.2 provides a standardized method of making a decision. A.5.1.3.7 This section provides a standardized method of making a decision regarding the reduction of the results from a waterflow test to determine what pressure and flow are available from a water supply when the specifying engineer and the water utility have not provided adjustment information. An example of how to use this standardized method follows.

If a waterflow test is conducted at a location where a city water main is going to be tapped for a new sprinkler system and the static pressure is measured at 70 psi, with the residual pressure measured at 50 psi while 1300 gpm was discharging from a nearby hydrant. If there is no information from the specifying engineer or water utility regarding appropriate adjustments, the value of the static pressure and residual pressure need to be reduced by 5%. The static pressure would be adjusted from 70 psi to 66.5 psi (70 x 0.95 = 66.5). The residual pressure at 1300 gpm would be reduced from 50 psi to 47.5 psi (70 x 0.95 = 47.5). The results would be plotted on log 1.85 graph paper as shown in the lower curve on Figure A.5.1.3.7 and that curve would represent what the fire protection system contractor could use for a fire protection system.


Public Comment No. 17-NFPA 24-2014 [ Section No. A.5.1.2 ]

A.5.1.2

An adjustment to the waterflow test data to account for the following should be made, as appropriate:

(1) Daily and seasonal fluctuations

(2) Possible interruption by flood or ice conditions

(3) Large simultaneous industrial use

(4) Future demand on the water supply system

(5) Other conditions that could affect the water supply


This is one of a series of proposals to improve the adjustment made to the data obtained from a waterflow test. Rather than leave it in the annex as a suggestion, the adjustment needs to be made as a requirement.

Related Item







Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip:


Committee Statement

CommitteeAction:



Statement: The NFPA 13 technical committees have been discussing the need for adjusting waterflow data for several revision cycles. Thisrevision aims to make the adjustment to the data from a waterflow test required instead of recommended. If the adjustment isnot required, contractors that do the right thing and adjust the data from tests are at a disadvantage from contractors that don'tmake any adjustment. It is fundamentally wrong to not make an adjustment to the data due to daily and seasonal fluctuations.This makes makes a simple and easy to understand adjustment that is standardized so that there is no argument over what issupposed to happen. It is the intent to have this be the only adjustment. If the water utility has already performed theadjustment, or if the AHJ has already mandated a safety margin or safety factor to the waterflow data obtained from the test, thisadjustment would not apply.


27 of 27 9/2/2014 9:27 AM

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