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Citizetu Advisory Committee on CHARLES GEORGE LANDFILL

n'NGSBOROUGH, MA.

MINVI'ES OF MEETING 16 MAY 27, /987

Members in attendance: ( J3 ) Susan Abu-Sharkh, Elizabeth Couahlin, Richard Davis {Chairman), Nicholas DeMauro, Chip Donnelly, Fran Ingram, Artie Jackson, Henry Jungmann, George Kalem, Fred Murphy, Bernard Sheehan, Augustus Skamarycz, Rod Wood State Representative Carol Cleven EPA representative(•): none DEQE representative(s): Erin Battinelli, Dale Youna EOEAIMEPA representative(s): David ShepardJon NMAC representative(•): Bob Flynn, Carol Leary MeetinJ convened: 7:30 PM

adjourned: 10:00 PM

CluJ liked Dole about the po11ible contamination of filii in Flint fond, and how to interpret the dill.

Elizabeth voiced concern about the Town'sleplliability if womin& silftl an not posted araund the Flint fond .....

She pointed out that the "contamillllltl of concern" reptdi"l filii conwnination in the Endanaennent Alleument document wu unclear.

CluJ read I line from the Endan1ermem Alleument concemina bottom-feedina filii; he uid that people do caldl and eat these fish.

No wamina sian• have been polled yet in the Flint Pond area. Erin stated lhlt she was aware of mercury and PCB ltlndardl, but believes that no standards have been es· tablished for the other contamlnanu. She aaid defmitive information about the con­taminants in the pond is needed before any action reaardina sians can be taken.

Fred recommended poltina wamina sians, or closina the Pond.

Erin suaaested the use of a pictorial sian, such as the international ones used On roads, to eliminate the need for mulciple lanauaae sians. She posed the question, how many sian• will be enouah?

Dale asked the Fish and Wildlife Commission when the Pond was last stocked;it was in Aulust 1980.

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) Citizens Advisory Committee on CHARLES GEORGE LANDFILL

n'NGSBOROUGH, MA.

MINUTES OF MEmNG 16 MAY 27, 1987

Elizabeth asked that a sign be posted on the "boom" at Flint Pond so that it will not be tampered with, as boaters have been moving it or running over it. Dale will contact contractors to do this.

Fred asked whether postin& warning sians around the Flint Pond area will decrease property values in the area. The aeneral consensus was that they miaht have an effect, but that the health issue is a more important concern.

Erin stated that before wamin& sians can be potted, the Flint Pond contamination data must be reviewed by an EPA toxicoloaist and the DEQB.

Dale was asked who will supply the toxk:otoaist; she answered that E.C.Jordan is respon~ible for this.

Fred asked who's responsiblity il it to issue the li&ftl and • Jtatement reaardin& Flint Pond contamination. DEQB answered that most likely, a joint advisory statement will be i11ued from tile DEOE and tile otate Plsh and Oome C.xnmiuion.

Fran liked Dole lhat sinc:c arsenic wu found in flint fond Marsh (acconlin& to tile Enclanaerment Aueun>ent), could this area be addreuecl seporatedly from tile fond, to limit oxposun to tile population? Dole said this ..,. be IIIUdled.

Rep. Cleven alllted Erin why there had been hesitancy to pollina warnina sians. Erin expiJ,ined that the DEOE it waitina for the toxk:oloain's ltUdy reiUitl 10 that the correct sian• can be posted. She lilted lhat tile level of toxicity is tile real question.

Gus asked the DEQE why the Flint Pond contamination problem wasn't anticipated, since the Endanaerment Auessment was completed in January '87. He wondered why a toxicoloain hldn't looked at the data at that time. He said he felt that someone had not

done their job reaardina this. In response, Dsle resd from Section 9, Pll• 19 of tile repon; it stated that there was no sianificant threal reaardina inaestion of fish (no car­cinoaenic risk). No recommendation was m1de to post wamin& siam.

The DEQE stated that they will decide abouc the sian portina the week of June 6. Rod Wood aareed to call Dale or Etin's office to check on proaress.

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Citizens Advisory Committee on CHARLES GEORGE LANDFILL

TVNGSBOROUGH, MA.

MINUI'ES OF MEETING 16 MAY 27, 1987

The Chairman stated that lhe town Board of Health should be notified about the intent to post wamina sians around Flint Pond Marsh.

The Chairman asked the Secretary to aive a brief synopsis of the minutes of the last meetina on May 13.

Elizabeth stated that her recollection of the last meetina was that the CAC came to a consensus thai more air umplina needed to be done because the ori&inal air umplina plan was inadequately modified to cover reJidentl concerns. The ori&inal plan was an on-site plan only, and was modified to add aamplina ltltionJ in the Flint Pond area by movina Rle .3 ltltionl to lhat location.

Bernie asked if the EPA or the DEQE would pay for another air monitorinJ test if they don' t except the current report. The Chairman rtated that funds are available, but that we don't knnow what the criteria is for another test to take ploce. Dale IIJIIWered that the current air aamplinJ report has been accepted.

Rep. Cleven asked what can the CAC do to let a new air lell'l She 11id k appun that we are leuina nowhere on chia iaue.

Bernie fek t11at the CAC is currently powerleaa - we lack a Charter.

The Chairman asked the members if anyone wu 11tisfied with the rocenUy completed air samplina. The memben were unanimously dinatiafied, and wanted more air monitor· ina done, and in locationt of the CAC's chootina. The Chairman stated that we need to lttOftliY respond to the EPA that we want another test. Clul pointed out that the CAC should put it's request in writin&, be specific about the dale, method, and locations of the air samplina. and to send a copy to Repretentltive Oeven. Jtep. Cleven mentioned thlt she knows some people in the NaturaJ Retow-ca Committee in the State House who should be able to help.

Dale 11id that the air samplina plan was an on-site and off-site plan, and that the Cannonaate, Flint Pond, Dunstable Road, arus were added because of the CAC's re­quest. The Chairman pointed out that the plan did not do what the CAC wanted. The Chairman, Fran and Anie will draft a letter detailin& exactly what the CAC wants done reaardina a new air samplina plan to EPA site manaaer Steve Farrick before the next meetina.

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Citizens Advisory Committee on CHARLES GEORGE LANDFILL

TYNGSBOROUGH, MA.

MINUITS OF MEETING 16 MAY 27, 1987

Elizabeth said she had asked Steve Farrick a couple of meetings aao what was used as an air model for the landfill site . She said he never answered the question, and that she felt a professional should be employed to develop an air model. She stated she was suprised that apparently an air model of the site does not exist, as air modelin& is stan­dard procedure in projects such as this . Elizabeth also mentioned that a quality assess­ment wu never performed.

Elizabeth raised a concern about OA testin& of the various media samples, since some early water samples had been declared invalid by the Quality AJsetsment, and no other study wu done because no more fundin& wu available . She hoped this wouldn't happen apin.

NMAC (Northern Middlesex Area Commiuion) representative Bob Flynn spolle 10 llle aroup, and uid that he hu worked with CAC's in llle poll. He uid that NMAC came into bein& under llle Secretary of Environmental Allain u a review aroup under MEPA reaulations. He ltlted chat they can act u a secretariat to us, handlin& the minutes, poperwort, etc. They ... arrana• off""' - in Lowell lor Ul 10 meet in. They also hived work with llle DI!OI!. Bob wu uked illlle Route 3 expansion plan will ailed llle Charles Oeorae LAndfill. He said not yet. but that 111e Environmental Alseumem is scheduled 10 be be out in AuJUII.

Erin introduced MEPA representative David Shepardlon. Dave proceeded to disc:uss MEPA's role reaardin& the CAC. MEPA works under the Mastachusetta Secretary of Environmental Affairt. It's role is to inform the State of the effecu of actions taken to clean up sites. MEPA moniton clean-up projecu:; it has been monitorin& the Charles Georae Landfill since March 1986. MEPA distributes a paper called the Environmental Monitor which reporu: on current environmental artain in the state.

Almost all Superfund projects are tricky; no one knows exactly what's happening until the data is presented to MEPA. MEPA review looks for potential problems and what can be done to minimize or eliminate the environmental impact. EPA has primary control of Superfund sites, DEQE controls other non- Superfund sites. In Dave 's experience, CACs have been involved in more aenenl issues; road salt, herbicide control, forest cuttin&. etc.. One of the roles of a CAC is to comment on documenu that the proponent (DEQE) issues to the Secretary of Environmental Artairs. MEPA looks for people who have ex­penise about 1 site and can make a commiument to make up a CAC. There was initially linle interest shown in formin& 1 CAC when MEPA first suuested it,

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Citizens Advisory Committee on CHARLES GEORGE LANDFILL

TYNGSBOROUGH, MA.

MINUI'ES OF MEmNG 16 MAY 27, 1987

but Dave felt the current CAC appears to be involved in the proper tasks. MEPA can help the CAC by giving it recognition and by formalizin& the group by officially appoint­ina each member to the CAC. Reaarding appointments, no "special state employees" will be allowed. Criteria is set up to prevent people from becomina one of these. One problem MEPA has is that it aiven only about one month to accept the DEOE details about a site. A aoal of MEPA is to obtain concensus positions on issues from the CAC. Since the CAC's role is advisory, a consensus statement is stronaer than 1 minoriry or even majority opinion. The CAC's main role is to deal with the DEQE. Dave uid that he know• of (12) people thai expreooed interell in fonnina a CAC under !he MEPA auidelines. MEPA would like to see people from different towns affected join the CAC. Elizabeth Cou&hlin has been active in roundina up people.

Bob Flynn asked Dive that since the landfill is a Superfund site, won't the EPA just do whatever it wants with the site? He uked if it is possible to create a stGUtftllll of IUidtr· stiiii<IU., becween !he CAC and !he EPA. Dove explained thai CAC comme1111 about EPA documenu are very imponan1. Bob uUd about IIOIUIOry aUIIIority; o.,. leh thai !he EPA won't accept 1 .,.,_ II/ IUidmt4ltdilll" between CAC and EPA. Bernie pointed out that the relationship between the EPA and the citizens of the Town hat always been ltl'lined, and that formalization of this relationship was attempted in 1983, '84, and '8S, wilhoul IU<COII. One of !he main problenu wu frequent 110ff chan&•• wilhin !he EPA. Dave aaid that the EPA and MEPA have a &ood workina relationship.

Erin asked that everyone at the meetina present their feelina• or questions about MFPA now, while Dave is present to diiCUII them.

Fred asked Dave what power does lhe CAC have to innuence the EPA. Dive said that MEPA will strenathen the CAC's voice provided we can c:ome up with COII#IIS&IS opiltiotts about issues. He wu not sure whether MEPA could help the CAC's (/ffclivity or not.

Fred also posed the question: "Which type of CAC is better; one havina t !i specialists, or !iO laymen?" Dave felt that the ideal CAC is one made up of about 12 people; the tvertae one consiru of 20 people, the laraest manaaeable size is 2!1 people.

Dave said that there are (!i) MEPA people on staff for all State projectS, thus they ctll on CACs frequently for help.

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Citizens Advisory Committee on CHARLES GEORGE LANDFILL

n'NGSBOROUCH , MA.

MINUI'ES OF MEE:TING 16 MAY 27, /98 7

The Chairman asked how strinacntly does MEPA except us to follow regulations, and would we aive up some ri&hts if we didn't follow them? Dave explained that he saw no problems; reaulations are not that strinaent. The CAC can decide it's level of involve· ment. He repeated that the CAC normally advist s till DEQE, not the EPA, but that the CAC can talk directly to the EPA without causina any problems for MEPA. Part of MEPA's role will be to ask for an Aaendl and meeting minutes from the CAC, and decide if they wish to attend a particular CAC meetina blsed on these. MEPA can appoint people to a CAC if it i1 let up under MEPA auidelines.

Fran asked what the formal route wu for the CAC review of documents received by MEPA. Dive replied that the usual method is via a letter from the CAC chairman, or individual memben to MEPA. He went on to II)' that the if the CAC is set up under MEPA, it can append DEQE documents. Under this ln'UIIemcnt, the DEQE is to tend papen to the CAC by the time MEPA receives them. fred asked if the CAC cornmentl could be edited out of the Environmenlll Monitor, or

would they be printed. Dave 11id the normal proceu hu been to print the CAC com­menta.

Quo asked if people have to write to the Secmuy of Environmental Allain to be ap. pointed to the CAC, or if the CAC Chairman can do thit. Dave "'Plied lhat either metllod io -ble.

Dave added that it is possible to aet on a mailina Jilt to receive the Environmental Monitor from MEPA.

Nick said that the air monitorina project did not come up for public review, and asked if the CAC would aet I future opportunity to review iL

Dale replied that (4) docwnenu are in proce11 reaudina kacluut trrat/MIII, gas tmis.siotas

trtottM,U, CDIIStrUctiDII impact mitiJatioll fMCUIUtl , and Wftltwb impact and are covered

throu&h the MEPA prooen. C4p COIUti"IICiioo is 1101 covtrtd wnd<r MEPA . Dave added lhat the ~~~ wattr isnw aoes throuah all the public review docwnenu .

Erin stated (reaardina Nick's previous question) that if the CAC had been set up earlier, then maybe it could have had an impact on the cap construction plans. ·

Dale said that the cap desian documents can be released to the public in mid July, and that they can 't be released before a bid is secured for the job.

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Citizens Advisory Committee on CHARLES GEORGE LANDFILL

TYNGSBOROUGH, MA.

MINUTES OF MEE11NG 16 MAY 27, 1987

Dave explained that the EPAIDEQEIMEPA roles are as follows : the DEOE checks the EPA's plans and data, and accepts it if it appears valid. MEPA checks the DEQE for valid data , and has the option to reject it if they wish.

The Chairman stated he felt we should defer formal CAC nomination requests by those who wish to join until the next meetina, since we only have five minutes of meetina time left. Dave read the list of people who had previously requested nomination. Rep. Cleven declined nomination, and uid lhe will just sit in at future CAC meetinas.

Prin uid she will mail out meetina reminden u she hu in the put.

The Chainnln lhanked David Shepordlon fOI' attendina ond invited him to attend the nextCACrneelini. fran ul<ed Dave why the water wello were not CCllllidered by MEPA. Dave replied that

the wello were reviewed by MEPA, and that the 1y11em io deoiiJIOd to oerve a lara• area, not jua Cannonpte.

The Chainnln will fOI'Ward to MEPA the letter that will be written to Steve Pllric:lr. requellin& mOI'O air IIICJIIitorina.

Repn!ina the non-participation of the Town Board of llealth, and other town aaencieo, Elizabeth felt that theae aaencieo thouaht that MEPA would be better equipped to handle the iuueo. Dole ul<ed Dove if oomeone from the Board of lluhh had ul<ed him about beina on the CAC. Dave replied no. Dale added that commentl to Steve Farrick on the Community Relationo Document are due by IWIO 3.

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) Citizens Advisory Committee oa CHARLES GIORGI LANDFILL

1YNGSBOROUGH, MA .

MINUTES OF MEF:IlNG 16 MAY 27, /987

AGENDA FOR NEXT MEF:IlNG: (June 10, 1987)

o Final decision on postina wamina siam around the Flint Pond and marsh area o Deftne Stalement of Purpooe o DiiCUSI the Work Plan that Bernie, Elizabeth, and Nick created o Discuu fundina options o Contider Nmmarization of dcx:umentt

The next meetin& wu lheduled !O<Iune 10, 7:30PM 11 the TynalbonJu&h Hlp Scllool Ubrory.

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J im Co lman, Madeline Snow, Ed Benoit, Bob Bo is , Dale Young Sarah We inste in

Er i n Batthtell~

June 16, 1987

Charles George Landfill CAC Meeting

May 27, 1987

Approxi• ately 15 people attended th i s meet i ng including Dale and myself , DIYe Shepar-dson fr0111 M£PA and Bob Flynn fr01a the Nor-thern Middlesex Area ec-ission. The first tt• on the agenda was the Flint Pond sign posting issue. Dal e said that t n r-esponse to the concern expressed at the previous CAC •et i ng , EPA has asked their consultant to aga i n, r-ev i ew the January 1987 Endangen~ent

AssessM nt {[A) with spectftc emphasis on consumption of f i sh, swit~~~~ i ng and con­tact wtth sed i~~ents in the Fl tnt Pond and Flint Pond Mar sh ar-ea . Although a couple of people not ed that th ts In f ormat ion has been ava i lable si nce Januar-y (why hadn 't we already evaluated the need t o post war n ing s i gns? they were gener all y pleased with th is appr-oach. It was a lso noted t hat all data generat ed IIO St r ecently fr011 s amples taken in wi nter of 1987, wi 11 be eval uated .

Dale added that CE QE asked DRS t o also l oo k at the i nformation an d t hat a dec i ­sion on whe ther- t o pos t wa rni ng s igns may be a joint one , be t "«een OEQE an d EPA.

The group also disc ussed ai r U tDpllng effort and agreed tha t, i n t hei r co llec­t he opi niofl , .,re air SU!pling is needed; that the effor t comp let ed thus far did not accur ately assess off-site conditions in r-esidential areas. They decided to send a strong letter t o EPA urg i ng that a more comprehensive plan be Ot veloped with the specific goal of gather i ng data frora off-s i te locations. They are convinced that this plan was or i gi na lly devel oped for worker safety even though EPA and CEOE have sa i d that the Apr il 1987 program objective was t o evaluate on-site conditions as well as to asses s impacts on nearby residential ar eas . Steve has not closed t he budget for ai r samp li ng but un less th e data Ind ica t es si gni f ic ant l evels of a ir contamin ant s in off site locat ions i t is unl ike ly tha t IWK)re a i r sampl ing will occu r .

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The major portion of the meeting was devoted to the issue of HEPA and whether the CAC should offici a 1 ly organize under MEPA' s regu 1 at tons. Dave Shepardson talked at length about HfPA's review authority and other CAC's that were formed for specific projects. He presented an accurate account of what the difference

=~u!~v~o~~ ~~~~P)~E"~~~de~~~!~t~~~ - th!~~e~::'~~l ~~n~~!iet~~~f=~~~~e:t!!~e~~ that the secretary 'lfould appoint the members. The CAC members asked questions but dio not give an indication of their preference . This item will be dis cussed more at the next meeting.

The chairperson stated that the overall remaining organization issues, such as membership , have been put off long enough and urged the group to devote the next meeting to this subject (MEPA fits into this nicely).

The ~~eettng adjourned at 10:00 pm and the next meeting "'s scheduled for Wednesday June 10th.

cc: Geoff Mc.Gean Steve Farr1c~

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