Lokpal JDC - Minutes of Meeting 6
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Transcript of Lokpal JDC - Minutes of Meeting 6
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Minutes of the Sixth Meeting of the Joint Drafting Committee iJ6C) fordrafting the lok Pal Bill held on 06.06.2011 (Monday) at 16.30 hrs. inRoom No.41, North Block.
The following were present:
(i) Shri Pranab Mukherjee, Ministerof Finance - Chairman
(ii) Shri P. Chidambaram, Ministerof Home Affairs
(iii) Dr. M. Veerappa Moily, Ministerof Law and Justice - Convener
(iv) Shri Kapil Sibal, Minister ofHuman Resource Developmentand Minister of Communicationand Information Technology.
(v) Shri Salman Khursheed, Ministerof Water Resources and Ministerof Minority Affairs.
Representatives of the Civil Society were not present.
2. At the outset, the Chairman welcomed all the Members present.
He mentioned that Shri Shanti Shushan, CoChairman of the JOC had
sent a letter indicating their inability to attend the meeting. The
Chairman then read out the contents of letter to the Members of Joint
Drafting Committee. The Chairman observed that some of the issues
mentioned in the said letter were extraneous and not in any way relatedto the mandate of the Joint Drafting Committee. He further stated that
what happened at RamUla ground had nothing to do with the
proceedings/meetings of the Joint Drafting Committee. He clarified that
the Joint Drafting Committee was constituted to draft the Lokpal Sill.
The Committee had worked out its procedure, and it was agreed that the
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vision and the general principles of the Lokpal bill as suggested by the
Civil Society Members shall be discussed clause by clause. He stated
that in the last five meetings a number of issues including issues on
basic principles which the members of Civil Society identified, have
been discussed. About 40 ingredients of basic principles were
discussed, and each of them was deliberated upon by the Drafting
Committee. The Drafting Committee has agreed on a number of issues,
but on certain issues, there is divergence of views and these were kept
in 'square brackets' for further discussion.
3. Referring to the letter of Shri Shanti Bhushan, the Chairman
further stated that one of the issues raised relates to the letter written by
the Chairman on May 31, 2011 to the Chief Ministers and the Leaders of
political parties seeking their opinion/views on the six major issues.
Shri Shanti Bhushan had expressed a view that the letter was drafted in
the form of a questionnaire and therefore inappropriate. This contention
of Shri Shanti Bhushan was incorrect, since the Chief Ministers and the
leaders of the political parties were requested to give their views on six
major issues on which there is a divergence of views between the
Government representatives and the representatives of the Civil SOCiety.
These, inter alia, include jurisdiction of Lokpal, the immunities providedto the Members of the Parliament under Article 105 of the Constitution in
respect of voting and speaking on the floor of the House, etc. The aim
behind writing to the Chief Ministers and leaders of political parties was
to seek their opinion on these issues and while a questionnaire was
added to the letter, this was only for ease of answering and nothing
prevented the CMs and the leaders of the political parties to give their
opinion/views in details as some of them had already done. The
Chairman stated that he had already received a number of responsesfrom important political parties viz. BJP, BSP, SP and CPl.
Administrator of UT of Chandigarh and some Chief Ministers had also
sent their responses. The Chief Minister of Bihar, Shri Nitish Kumar,
also sent his response though he had raised certain doubts which were
clarified by the Chairman through his second letter.
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4. The Chairman suggested that in the present meeting the
Committee should concentrate on drafting the Lokpal legislation. The
Committee should proceed with the areas where there was convergence
of views, and complete the drafting in respect of these clauses. The
Chairman further suggested that where there was divergence of views
between the representatives of Government and the representatives of
the Civil Society. the view pomts of both government side and the civil
society side could be indicated in the draft. Thereafter. this draft could
be circulated to the political parties and Chief Ministers for their
comments, and their views could also be considered, as suggested by
the Samajwadi Party, by arranging a meeting with the leaders of political
parties. The Chairman was of the view that in this way. the work could
be accomplished through a broad based consensus. He further noted
that it was unfortunate that the members of the Civil Society had
decided to boycott the sixth meeting of the JOC on the issues which
were not in the domain of the Joint Drafting Committee. However. the
Chairman agreed with the request of Shri Shanti Shushan to shift the
next date of meeting from 10 th June to any other date after 11thJune.
2011.
5.1 Thereafter. the Chairman invited the Minister of Home Affairs to
take up the draft prepared by the Ministry of Law and Justice.
5.2 Minister of Home Affairs referring to the draft of the various
clauses for the proposed Lokpal Bill, observed that the draft broadly had
been prepared on the basis of the principles already agreed upon.
5.3 Minister of Home Affairs read out the formulation of clause 1(a) ofthe draft which was related to the expenses of Lokpal to be charged on
the Consolidated Fund of India. The Committee was of the unanimous
view that the formulation was in order.
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5.4 Referring to the formulation of first proviso to the clause 1 (b)
relating to staff of the Lokpal, Minister of Home Affairs observed that the
given formulation is in 'double negatives', and it should be reworded in
a simple positive sentence to denote that in respect of any post or class
of posts as may be specified, appointment shall be made after
consultations with the UPSC. This was agreed to.
5.5 Thereafter, formulation of clause 2 which related to the terms of
office and other conditions of service of Chairperson and Members of
Lokpal, was taken up. It was observed that the draft formulation was
correct, but it did not deal with the issue of eligibility of the Chairman
and Members of Lokpal to contest elections. Minister of Human
Resources Development stated that the Committee should take a viewwhether the Chairperson/Members of Lokpal were eligible to contest
elections or not. The Chairman observed that whether a person would
be eligible to contest election or not was determined by the Constitution
as per the prescribed specific disqualifications. Whether it would be
legally possible is another question. Minister of Law and Justice
observed that if the Chairperson/Members of Lokpal were made
ineligible to contest elections, in that case, amendment to Constitution
may be required. Minister of Water Resources was of the view that it
was not a good idea to make Chairperson/Members of Lokpal ineligible
to contest elections. Chairman suggested that this issue may be
decided by the Cabinet, and this aspect may be brought out in detail in
the note for the Cabinet. After discussions, it was decided that a point
(iv) may be added to sub clause 2 of this clause. This, may be to the
effect that they would not be eligible for elections to the office of
President/Vice President, Member of Parliament, State Legislature,
Municipalities and Panchayats.
5.6 Coming to formulation of clause 3, Minister of Home Affairs
suggested that sub clause (1) and (2) should be merged to read as:
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"The Chairperson and Members shall be appointed by the President by
Warrant under his hand and seal after obtaining the recommendations
of the Selection Committee".
Accordingly, the numbering of subsequent sub-clauses will also
change. It was also decided that in the renumbered sub clause (3),
[earlier sub-clause (4)], in line one, the word 'shall' should be replaced
by 'may'.
5.7 Minister of Home Affairs, thereafter took up the formulation of
clause 4 and pointed out that the last line before the word "procedure"
the word "the" is required to be inserted. This was agreed to.
5.8 The draft fonnulation to clause 5 was taken up by the Minister of
Home Affairs and it was suggested that in the second line, after the
words 'the Lokpal shall', the word 'only' be deleted. This was agreed to.
5.9 Minister of Home Affairs took up the draft formulation of clause 6
which relates to jurisdiction of the Lokpal. In part (e) of the sub clause
(1), it was observed that the word 'rank' appearing at the end of this part
may be deleted. Similarly, in part (f) of the sub clause (1), in the firstline, after the words 'equivalent or above' the word 'rank' may be
deleted.
5.10 In so far, the formulation relating to the inquiry by the Lokpal into
any matter involved in, or arising from or connected with any allegation
of corruption against the Prime Minister is concerned, the Chairman
observed that so long as the Prime Minister holds the office, any inquiry
should be suspended and the Lokpal may keep the matter of inquiry
with himself. However, the moment the Prime Minister demits office,
the inquiry can proceed. Minister of Human Resource Development
enquired whether the former Ministers would also be covered. Minister
of Home Affairs stated that since Lokpal would be a new authority, it had
to be made clear as to who would be covered, and he suggested that all
those who were covered by the Prevention of Corruption Act, even if
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they have demitted office/retired, should be covered. Therefore, it was
decided that the part (c) of sub clause (1) needs to be redrafted to
include Ministers, former Ministers, MPs and former MPs. Furthermore,
jurisdiction of the Lokpal may include in its ambit "any other person
who is/was at the time of commission of the offence, a 'public servant'
as defined under the Prevention of Corruption Act". For this purpose a
part (g) may be added to this sub clause.
5.11 The Committee thereupon took up the question of period of
limitation for initiating inquiries by the Lokpal. Minister for Human
Resource Development stated that the law relating to criminal procedure
should apply to the cases under the Lokpal. Thereupon, Addl. Secretary
(S&V) stated that in the earlier Bill, a limitation period of five year wasprovided. Minister of Water Resources was of the view that limitation
period should be there. However, a view emerged that whatever
limitation period is applicable under the Prevention of Corruption Act
should also apply in this case also.
6. The Committee confirmed the Minutes of the 4th meeting held on
23.05.2011and of the 5 th meeting held on 30.05.2011. It was decided that
these may be posted on the webpage of the Lokpal/Ministry of
Personnel.
7. Keeping in view the request of Shri Shanti Bhushan to reschedule
the next meeting the Joint Drafting Committee (originally scheduled to
meet on 10 th June, 2011), it was decided that the next meeting may be
held on 15 th June, 2011.
The meetlng ended with a vote of thanks.