Let's Talk Bitcoin, episode 102, "SaveGox and the Show Floor"

8/12/2019 Let's Talk Bitcoin, episode 102, "SaveGox and the Show Floor"

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Transcription of Episode 102 SaveGox and the Show

Floor

Participants:

Adam B. Levine (ABL) Host

Stephanie Murphy (SM) Co-host provides intervie! !ith Marco Stren"

#ac$son Pa%mer (#P) &ounder o' o"ecoin

&%avion Char%on (&C) CoinPrism

dan *a"o (*) A+A ,r"anisation

avid Bai%ey (B) ditor-in-Chie' yBitcoin

Marco Stren" (MS) enesis Minin"

Broc$ Pierce (BP) Saveo.com

/i%%iam 0ui"%y (/0) Saveo.com

#ohn Betts (#B) Saveo.com

Adam B. Levine: 12ntroduction3 +oday is Apri% 45th 6748 this is episode 476. +his

pro"ram is intended 'or in'ormationa% and educationa% purposes on%y.Cryptocurrency is a ne! 'orm o' study. Consu%t your %oca% 'uturist %a!yer and

investment advisor 9e'ore ma$in" any decisions !hatsoever 'or yourse%'.

/e%come to Lets +a%$ Bitcoin a t!ice !ee$%y sho! a9out ideas o' peop%e and

pro;ects 9ui%din" the di"ita% economy and the 'uture o' money. My name is Adam

B. Levine and today !erst met avid Bai%ey at the >rst Lets +a%$ Bitcoin

con'erence meet up in San #ose %ast year. He is no! the editor and chie' at

yBitcoin ma"a?ine !hich has seen remar$a9%e success at on 9oardin" those ;ust

%earnin" a9out the techno%o"y. /e ta%$ a9out the pro;ect and !hats up net.

/e 9ounce 9ac$ to +eas to ;oin Stephanie !ith the >na% intervie! 'rom that

con'erence.

Marco Stren" is the primary at "enesis minin" a ne! attempt at an o%d pro9%em:

ho! do you mine !hen you dont !ant to run miners@


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And >na%%y: reha9i%itate dont %iuidate reha9i%itate dont %iuidate. Broc$

Pierce /i%%iam 0ui"%y and #ohn Betts are the individua%s championin" the

save"o.com movement. +hey ma$e their case to you the %istenin" audience on

the situation at Mto !hy it matters to every9ody and !hat you can do to he%p

- !hether you %ost 'unds or not.

But >rst: #ac$son Pa%mer creator o' o"ecoin. At %ast months coin summit. 2

cornered him outside the con'erence to ta%$ a9out memecoins tippin" and

emer"in" cu%ture. n;oy the sho!.

ABL: 2ntervie! si #ac$son Pa%mer creator o' o"ecoin. Coin summit day 6.

#ac$son than$ you very much 'or ;oinin" us on Lets +a%$ Bitcoin.

#ac$son Pa%mer: +han$s 'or havin" me on the sho!.

Adam B. Levine: So o"e coin !hy Ddo"e@

#ac$son Pa%mer: 2t !as ;ust $ind o' the ri"ht p%ace at the ri"ht time. 2 !as

'o%%o!in" a 9unch o' o%d coins %ate %ast year and 2 noticed an artic%e 9y Adrian

Chan 'rom a!$er that !as sayin" that o"e is the 9est meme the >rst "ood

meme out there. 2 thin$ the meme is $ind o' incorrupti9%e 9ecause you cant

introduce the pre;udiced tones that "et %aid over other memes onto o"ecoin

9ecause its too pure.

Adam B. Levine: (%au"hs)

#ac$son Pa%mer: So 2 !ent home one day and t!eeted that 2m "oin" to invest in

o"ecoin its the net 9i" thin" and at this point it !asn


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in cryptocurrency and !ou%d avoid it the p%a"ue they start readin" a9out o"e

coin and rea%ise oh its a cryptocurrency. And they read the /i$ipedia artic%e

a9out cryptocurrency and theyrst or second day. +here is an e%ement o' "ettin" somethin" 'or nothin"

that then turns into somethin" thats not nothin" anymore at the end o' it.

Bitcoin had that at the 9e"innnin". Peop%e mined and they "ot paid and stu=

and no9ody $ne! !hat the va%ue !as. So do you thin$ that that is the 'uture o'

o"e or do you thin$ that o"e stays this happy-"o-%uc$y 'ree thin"@

#P: 2 !ou%dnt say happy-"o-%uc$y 9ut 2 thin$ it shou%d remain se%'-a!are not9ecome too e%itist and never %ose the !e%comin" 'ee% that the community has.

+hatts o' it. 2 thin$ o"e coin is "oin" cement itse%' as

an internet currency potentia%%y !ith a %o!er va%ue. 2 $no! #osh the !ay he %i$es

to descri9e it is ;ust thro!in" chan"e at peop%e on the internet. 2tna% 9%oc$ and its capped at a static

re!ard o' 47777 o"e per 9%oc$. 2ts rea%%y an incentive to $eep miners pointin"

their hash po!er at the net!or$ and securin" the net!or$ 'or us. 2 thin$ its

interestin" 9ecause !ere "oin" to reach this cap 9y the end o' this year (6748)

and its "oin" to 9e a rea%%y interestin" study into !hat Bitcoin !i%% one day 'ace !hen minin" doesnt 9ecome as pro>ta9%e as it once !as are miners "oin" to


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stic$ around or are they "oin" to move onto the net thin" that they can ma$e

their money !ith@

ABL: Ho! 'ast does the diGcu%ty read;ust@ Because it seems that comes into p%ay

here a %ot.

#P: A9so%ute%y !e recent%y and this is a rea%%y "ood eamp%e o' a%t coins not9ein" competitive 9ut !or$in" to"ether to he%p cryptocurrency - !or$ed !ith the

deve%opers o' another a%tcoin ca%%ed i"i9yte. +hey have a diGcu%ty retar"eter

a%"orithm ca%%ed i"iShie%d !hich is used to he%p a"ainst pro>t s!itchin" mu%ti-

poo%s these mu%ti-poo%s have an a%"orithm that %oo$s at !hat you can cash out to

B+C 'or the most and s!itches their entire hash rate to that coin. /hen these

mu%ti-poo%s are used on a sma%%er coin the diGcu%ty shoots throu"h the roo' this

happened to o"ecoin and everyone had to !ait 'our hours 'or it to retar"et.

o! !ith i"iShie%d every I7 seconds !e retar"et the diGcu%ty o' every 9%oc$.

ABL: /o! has this 9een tested does this > the pro9%em@

#P: 2ts 9een tested and !hats rea%%y ama?in" is that 2 actua%%y didnt have toimp%ement it !e have a rea%%y active deve%opment community that "ot to"ether

on 2JC on "ithu9 and !e !ere hashin" this out. /e had peop%e that !ere very

eperienced in mode%%in" that used mat%a9 they %oo$ed at the diGcu%ty

retar"ets and they thre! a !ho%e %oad o' hash at it on the test net. 2t !as 'u%%y

tested in the space o' a 'e! days so !ere very con>dent in i"iShie%d and the

retar"eter !e have no! 2 thin$ its thin"s %i$e this that !e 1!i%% 9e usin" on

Bitcoin in the 'uture3 as Bitcoins hash diminishes in the 'uture.

ABL: ,ne o' the interestin" va%ue %ayers thats 9ein" 9ui%t on top o' thin"s %i$e

Bitcoin are these meta protoco%s such as counterparty and mastercoin. Ji"ht

no! theyre 9ein" tar"eted speci>ca%%y at Bitcoin 9ecause Bitcoin has the 9i""estuse-case 9ut 2 thin$ theres a rea%%y interestin" ar"ument to 9e made a9out usin"

somethin" !ith a 'ast 9%oc$chain %i$e o"ecoin. +he o"ecoin community is

pretty much as 9i" as the Bitcoin community in a %ot o' capacities.

#P: +hats correct !e recent%y ec%ipsed Litecoin as !e have a very active

community ho!ever the transaction 1'ees3 are a %ot %o!er.

ABL: 2n the %ast coup%e o' days !e have seen the Bitcoin deve%opers speci>ca%%y

Lu$e-;r and #e= ar?i$ come out a"ainst these protoco%s and it %oo$s as thou"h

theyre ta$in" a""ressive steps such as reducin" the o=er term !hich is the

mechanism !hich the protoco%s need to use the 9%oc$chain. 2t %oo$s as thou"h

Bitcoin doesnt !ant these protoco%s i' 'or eamp%e these protoco%s did not >nd ahome on Bitcoin is that somethin" o"e !ou%d 9e interested in ta%$in" to them

a9out@

#P: +ota%%y 2 thin$ that there is a %ot o' interestin" use cases there. ,ne o' them 2

rea%%y %i$e is the idea o' a decentra%i?ed echan"e 9ui%t !ithin the 9%oc$chain !ith

mu%ti-si" and a 9unch o' other stu= and 2 thin$ in a trust %ess net!or$ its

'antastic to 9e a9%e to decentra%i?e echan"e o' currency. Bitcoin have to 9e

care'u% the 9%oc$chain techno%o"y !hi%st vo%untary its sti%% in its in'ancy and

dis$ space sti%% costs a %ot o' money so you dont necessari%y !ant peop%e

9%oatin" up your 9%oc$chain. &or eamp%e !hen 2 hear distri9uted drop9o 2 thin$

is my data directory "oin" to 9e hundreds o' "i"a9ytes. /e shou%dnt 9e scaredo' havin" mu%tip%e 9%oc$chains to 9e honest even i' !e dont "et to the point o' a


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decentra%i?ed echan"e 2d %i$e to see echan"es such as cryptsys %ed"er to run

usin" 9%oc$chain techno%o"y !ith 'u%% transparency. A 9%oc$chain is a 9%oc$chain

and 2 dont see any issue !ith havin" mu%tip%e 9%oc$chains 9ecause you can

choose as a consumer to trust one o' them.

ABL: +he on%y ar"ument 2 thin$ a"ainst that is it !ou%d 'ra"ment the user 9ase

9ut 2m startin" to 9e%ieve as !e move 'or!ard that there ;ust isnt another 'uture

'or us. 2nevita9%y !hether its this particu%ar instance or the net set o'

innovations that come a9out it seems that over time Bitcoin is $ind o' ca%ci'yin"

9ecause they have 9een success'u% so they have to 9e conservative (9ut they

rea%%y dont have to 9e@).

#P: o and !ere here ta%$in" a9out Bitcoin 9ut 2 thin$ the $ey techno%o"y is

9%oc$chain techno%o"y and !e may have imp%emented it or satoshi mi"ht have

imp%emented it 'or currency. But it has so many other uses such as S 2 thin$

!ithin the net >ve years !ere "oin" to see S decentra%i?ed its needed an

up"rade 'or a %on" time. +here are so many app%ications o' 9%oc$chain

techno%o"y and that%% resu%t in severa% 9%oc$chains that eist across the 2nternetSphere and thats >ne i' the 9u%$ o' users choose to "o on that 9%oc$chain.

ABL: *ou "ot any %ast !ords@

#P: Last !ordsK +, +H M,,E

ABL: #ac$son Pa%mer than$ you very much 'or your time.

#P: +han$ you.

ABL: +oday !ere ;oined on Lets +a%$ Bitcoin 9y &%avion Char%on !ho is adeve%oper on the coin prism !a%%et !hich is one o' Co%ored Coins pro;ect. /e at

Lets +a%$ Bitcoin have never actua%%y ta%$ed a9out the Co%ored Coins pro;ect this

is the >rst time !e have seen this pro;ect. 2ts an a%ternative !ay to do smart

property and is actua%%y one o' the >rst to do this. Can you "ive us some

9ac$"round on the pro;ect and !hat it is@

&%avien Char%on: Coin Prism is the >rst !e9 !a%%et that uses Co%ored Coin Co%ored

Coin is a !ay to add a secondary va%ue to a Bitcoin or a 'raction o' a Bitcoin and

then you can trans'er it via the Bitcoin B%oc$chain. 2ts a !ay to use the Bitcoin

9%oc$chain as a means 'or trans'errin" assets.

ABL: +a%$in" a9out assets !hat does that %oo$ %i$e in practice "ive me a use-case@

&C: 2' you !ant to ma$e an 2P, on the 9%oc$chain you cou%d issue shares in the

'orm o' Co%ored Coins and then you cou%d send them to your investors and

echan"e them throu"h the 9%oc$chain.

ABL: +here are other types o' pro;ects out there that are ta$in" this approach

that are ne! 9ut the Co%ored Coin concept has 9een around 'or a !hi%e. /hat is

it a9out Co%ored Coins that di=ers it 'rom these other pro;ects@

&C: Some o' the pro;ects such as therium or BitShares use a separate

9%oc$chain !hereas Co%ored Coin is run on the Bitcoin 9%oc$chain. ,ther pro;ectssuch as mastercoin and CounterParty use the Bitcoin 9%oc$chain 9ut they a%so


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use a secondary $ind o' currency %i$e CP and MSC. Ho!ever !ith Co%ored Coin

its usin" the native currency !hich is Bitcoin so there is no secondary currency

you have to use to issue user currencies.

ABL: Bitcoins are epensive they have 9ecome pricier. /hen !ere ta%$in" a9out

a Co%ored Coin is it a !ho%e Bitcoin or is it a 'raction o' a Bitcoin@ /hat is the

standard si?e 'or a Co%ored Coin@

&C: *ou can determine an ar9itrary sca%e 'or !hat is "oin" to 9e your Co%ored

Coin. *ou can "o as %o! as 4 satoshi 4 Co%ored Coin. 2' you !ant to issue

shares 'or eamp%e you can have one share encoded into one satoshi !hich is a

sma%% amount o' money.

ABL: +hat is a sma%% amount o' money one thin" it ma$es me thin$ o' thou"h is

that transaction 'ees are a %ot hi"her than that in the thousand satoshi ran"e.

o you thin$ this is a pro9%em !here 'ees !i%% come do!n over time or the va%ue

o' these thin"s !i%% "o up@ o you see a pro9%em !ith usin" satoshis at minimum

in this system either !ay@&C: +he main pro9%em is the dust ru%e !hich %imits it so you can never send an

output that is %ess than N877 satoshi. 2' you choose 4 satoshi per share it means

you cannot send %ess than N877 shares in a transaction this is one o' the

%imitations. +his is !hy you may !ant to have more "ranu%arity so in that case

you !ou%d se%ect say ten thousand satoshi 'or one share.

ABL: +e%% me a9out Coin Prism. +his is the >rst !e9 !a%%et that supports the

Co%ored Coin. *ou didnt invent the Co%ored Coin concept 9ut youre the >rst one

to success'u%%y inte"rate it@

&C: /e%% there is another ca%%ed the Chroma /a%%et !hich is a c%ient-side !a%%et

that you have to do!n%oad. Coin Prism too$ a di=erent approach its more o' a

9%oc$chain.in'o $ind o' !e9site. 2ts the 9%oc$chain.in'o 'or Co%ored Coins you can

si"n up in %ess than >ve minutes and start issuin" your coins. 2ts very strai"ht

'or!ard to use rather than do!n%oadin" a c%ient.

ABL: +hat is somethin" 2 have noticed a9out these !e9 !a%%ets !hen youre

ta%$in" a9out the %ayered techno%o"ies on top such as a counterparty you have to

reinde the entire 9%oc$chain in order to %oo$ 'or speci>c types o' va%ue. 2s this

somethin" you a%so have to do !ith Co%ored Coin@ /ith the 'u%% c%ient not the

!e9 c%ient.

&C: *ou dont necessari%y have to do it one o' the 9ene>ts o' Co%ored Coins isthat you dont eact%y have to use SPO %i$e !ith Bitcoin !here you can ;ust chec$

the 9%oc$.

ABL: /hat does SPO mean@

&C: SPO stands 'or Simp%e Payment Oeri>cation !ith Bitcoin you !ou%d chec$

that your transaction has 9een inc%uded in a 9%oc$ to veri'y the payment. *ou

cannot do that !ith Co%ored Coin as it may 9e a va%id Bitcoin transaction 9ut

inva%id 'or Co%ored Coin purposes you !ou%d have to 9ac$trac$ the coins 9ac$ to

the issuin" transaction. *ou dont need to inde the !ho%e 9%oc$chain you can

;ust 9ac$trac$ its not as eGcient as indein" 9ut indein" ta$es reuires more

resources.


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ABL: *ou said that Chroma !a%%et is a %ot %i$e 9%oc$chain.in'o one o' the thin"s

thats interestin" a9out 9%oc$chain.in'o compared to a %ot o' the ear%ier !a%%ets is

that it doesnt ho%d your $eys. So i' youre individua%%y compromised it can 9e a

pro9%em 9ut i' the !a%%et itse%' is compromised its not so much o' a pro9%em. 2s

that the case !ith your !a%%et as !e%%@

&C: *es !e use the same security mode%. /e encrypt the $eys on the c%ient side

9e'ore its sent to the server and the pass!ord is used 'or decryptin" the $eys

so even i' the data9ase is compromised the $eys !i%% 9e >ne (as %on" as the

pass!ord is not compromised).

ABL: 2t seems as thou"h this is a mode% peop%e are usin" more 'reuent%y !ith a

%ot o' success. *ou hear a9out phishin" scams etc and not that 9%oc$chain.in'o is

actua%%y compromised. o you thin$ this mode% to 9e the 'uture 'or !e9 !a%%ets@

&C: *es it has 9een the mode% that is the most success'u% so 'ar 9ecause a %ot o'

!a%%ets that ho%d the $eys have 9een compromised 9e'ore. /hereas 2 cannot

thin$ o' a time !hen 9%oc$chain.in'o has 9een compromised resu%tin" in %oss o'coins.

ABL: 2n re"ards to coin prism a"ain the !a%%et is up no!@

&C: /ere current%y in c%osed 9eta you !i%% need an access code to create a

!a%%et.

ABL: Ho! %on" do you thin$ it%% 9e in c%osed 9eta@

&C: A9out a month !e p%an to re%ease to the main net in a month 9ut 'or no! its

on a testnet.

ABL: 2' someone !as interested in your pro;ect are you %oo$in" 'or any he%p@ Areyou %oo$in" 'or ear%y adopters or testers@

&C: /ere %oo$in" 'or ear%y adopters and testers especia%%y i' peop%e have use

case in !hich they !ou%d 9e a9%e to issue Co%ored Coins that !ou%d 9e shares or

smart properties or anythin" that !ou%d 9oost up the usa"e o' Co%ored Coins

they shou%d reach out to us and !e can !or$ !ith them and he%p !ith their use

case.

ABL: Sounds "reatE &%avien than$ you very much 'or your time.

&C: +han$ you Adam.

Chris #oseph: +his is Chris #oseph 9rin"in" you ne!s on +. +he >rst true

second "eneration cryptocurrency 'or Apri% 45th6748 !ith every passin" day

more and more pro;ects are 9ein" pitched proposed and desi"ned 9y the +

community. +his !ee$ a "roup o' peop%e unvei%ed their p%ans 'or Lith an on%ine

mu%tip%ayer "ame 9ui%t in the nity en"ine that !i%% em9race the 'eatures o' +

to a%%o! virtua% resources to harvested to create "oods that can then 9e traded

on the + mar$etp%ace.

2n other ne!s version 7.5.I o' the + core so't!are has no! 9een re%eased

inc%udin" 'eatures %i$e ei"ht decima% p%aces %eased 'or"in" partia% canonica%

si"natures !hich >es transaction ma%%ea9i%ity and more to the %ive net!or$.veryone runnin" a node is ur"ed to up"rade. &or more "enera% in'ormation on


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+ head to +crypto.or" or mynt.or" Stay tuned 'or more ne!s on + on

the net Lets +a%$ Bitcoin 9roadcast.

ABL: danE +han$ you very much 'or ;oinin" us today on Lets +a%$ Bitcoin.

dan *a"o: My p%easure.

ABL: /eve 9een havin" an on"oin" conversation a9out the A+A or"anisation

can you "ive us a 9asic overvie! o' !hy the A+A or"anisation came into

eistence and !hat it is@

*: 2n 677Q Lehman Brothers co%%apsed and too$ a %ot o' peop%es money !ith it.

Bitcoin is an ama?in" industry 9ecause that happens to us every 6-months.

ABL: (%au"hs)

*: /e have Mto trade'ortress every sin"%e !ee$ !e have some other scam

or another site that disappears has their 9an$ shut do!n. +here are so manyris$s invo%ved 2 thin$ our response up unti% no! has 9een inadeuate. /e tend to

have a %ot o' ar"uments on reddit and Bitcointa%$ and at the con'erences

everyone is sayin" more re"u%ation %ess re"u%ation !e dont need re"u%ation

re"u%ators are "oin" to destroy Bitcoin. 2ts a very 9inary conversation !hich is

a%!ays a%most on a %inear curve 9et!een ?ero re"u%ation and the 'eds "ettin"

invo%ved and runnin" Bitcoin 'or us and its mis%eadin" 9ecause !e deve%oped

this ne! techno%o"y in order to do somethin" di=erent. ot to have the same o%d

ar"ument that !e have 9een havin" up unti% no! !ere "oin" to continue as

users and an industry to su=er unti% !e 9ecome creative a9out ho! !ere

protectin" ourse%ves and our users. /hat A+A is a9out is comin" to"ether as an

industry to >"ure out a ne! path 'or!ard this means >"htin" yesterdays 9att%e meanin" echan"es are audited there is transparency users $no! !here their

'unds are "oin". 2t means >"urin" out !hat tomorro!s 9att%e mi"ht 9e 'or

eamp%e are users p%acin" their 'unds !ith 9usinesses that are dan"erous

9ecause the re"u%ator is %i$e%y to shut them do!n. /e a%so have to ta%$ to the

re"u%ators ta%$ to the 9an$s that %o99y the re"u%ators and he%p them >"ure out

!hy this is an important step 'or!ard and !hy comin" up !ith ar9itrary

re"u%ation is "oin" to 9e dama"in" to everyone.

ABL: +he A+A or"anisation is a 'air%y ne! or"anisation. A %ot o' the thin"s 2m

hearin" you say are thin"s that the Bitcoin 'oundation $ind o' a%ready does

ri"ht@*: *eah.

ABL: /hat is A+A doin" that is di=erent to the Bitcoin 'oundation !hats the

di=erence 9et!een these t!o or"anisations@

*: 2 dont thin$ there is that much simi%arity 9et!een the Bitcoin 'oundation and

A+A. +he Bitcoin 'oundation is a 'oundation that is 'ocused around deve%opin"

and promotin" the use o' Bitcoin one o' the "reat thin"s the Bitcoin 'oundation

does is support a %ot o' the core deve%opers and its a%so an or"anisation !hich

has %o99ied 'or Bitcoin and Bitcoin re%ated currencies. As A+A thats not !hat

!ere doin" >rst o' a%% !ere a"nostic as to !hich cryptocurrency is "oin" to 9e

important may9e its one cryptocurrency may9e its a%% o' them or may9e its a

com9ination that !e havent seen yet.


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Second%y !ere not there to he%p deve%op the techno%o"y !e thin$ its very

important to separate the deve%opment o' the techno%o"y 'rom the %a!s and the

ru%es o' men. 2' !e start to com9ine them its not $osher its com9inin" mi%$ and

meat !hat !e !i%% start to see more is the same or"anisation !hich is dea%in"

!ith the re"u%ators is a%so dea%in" !ith the techno%o"y the more the re"u%ators

!i%% !ant to start dea%in" !ith the techno%o"y. /e thin$ there shou%d 9e %i$e aChinese !a%% 9et!een these t!o thin"s.

ABL: 2n practice a %ot o' the peop%e the re"u%ators are ta%$in" to are peop%e such

as Patric$ Murc$ !ith the Bitcoin 'oundation. o you vie! A+A as ta$in" over

that ro%e@

*: Patric$ Murc$ is actua%%y on the 9oard 'or A+A so his current%y ta$in" t!o

ro%es. 2ts not rea%%y my p%ace to te%% the Bitcoin 'oundation !hat to do 2 thin$ that

the Bitcoin 'oundation has 9een doin" an ece%%ent ;o9 and has 9een the on%y

p%ayer around up unti% no!. A+A is modest in !hat !ere tryin" to do !e dont

intend to represent the entire Bitcoin !or%d or the community. /e are an

or"anisation o' companies that are come to"ether as a non-pro>t or"anisation asinterested parties in the "ro!th o' this industry. Primari%y to ma$e sure that our

users and consumers are protected and they $no! they have someone that they

can trust !e dont intend to deve%op the techno%o"y ourse%ves. /e thin$ this

type o' separation is "ood and at the moment the Bitcoin 'oundation have 9een

'orced to do everythin" as there !as no one e%se as !e mature as an industry

and techno%o"y 2 thin$ !e !i%% see more and more specia%i?ation !ith peop%e

'ocusin" on thin"s they can do 9est.

ABL: 2 see !hat does A+A stand 'or@

*: A+A stands 'or i"ita% Asset +rans'er Authority the reason !e chose that

name is its catchy. /e a%so decided to ca%% it i"ita% Assets in part to move theconversation a!ay 'rom Bitcoin 9ecause Bitcoin as youre !e%% a!are is on%y used

'or porn chi%d porno"raphy and dru"s. So !e intend to discuss it more as a

techno%o"y that is "oin" to 9e important to the 'uture o' >nance and !e hope to

9e an academic authority an authority !here peop%e have reco"ni?ed that !e

have put in the time and !or$ and hope'u%%y peop%e !i%% vo%unteer to a9ide 9y the

re"u%ations so !e can a%% 9e sa'er.

ABL: So its not a9out Bitcoin its a9out cryptocurrency. Are you speci>c to

"eo"raphic %ocation or is this a "%o9a% or"anisation@

*: 2ts a "%o9a% or"anisation !e have s%i"ht%y over R7 companies !ho are

current%y mem9ers o' !hom 4N are 'rom urope and Asia and the rest are 'rom

the S. +he S is sti%% the %eadin" country in terms o' vo%ume o' activity. 2 !ou%d

even "o as 'ar to say !ere not in 'avour o' cryptocurrencies 2 thin$

cryptocurrencies are the 'uture 9ut !e have a num9er o' companies !ho

imp%ement more traditiona% centra%i?ed currency.

ABL: Cou%d !e ;ust "enera%i?e this to to$ens@ /ou%d that !or$ or are you ta%$in"

a9out some systems that dont have to$ens@

*: +his is another aspect o' this !e thin$ that Co%ored Coins 9itshares etc are

rea%%y interestin" !ays o' di"iti?in" the va%ue. +heyre di"ita% assets not currency

not to$ens its ho! !e as individua%s 9usiness and peop%e can trans'er va%ue9et!een ourse%ves in a di"ita% a"e.


10/22

ABL: Jecent%y A+A had an e%ection and you 9rou"ht in your >rst 9oard it sounds

as thou"h the or"anisation is startin" to spin up. *ou have R7 mem9er

companies !hats in the near 'uture 'or A+A@

*: +he t!o most important thin"s that !e are doin" ri"ht no! are >rst o' a%%

!ere %oo$in" to put to"ether a department !hich !i%% 9e 'ocused on consumer

protection. o! eact%y ho! that !i%% %oo$ is current%y 9ein" de9ated 9ut !hat !e

envision is a p%ace 'or consumers to report comp%aints suspicions and possi9%y

"et those addressed. Someone !ho !i%% 9e a9%e to investi"ate companies a%so

the or"anisation shou%d 9e a9%e to su""est a !ay to audit companies and provide

in'ormation on !ho is comp%iant and !ho isnt.

+he second thin" !ere doin" is puttin" to"ether a num9er o' round ta9%es 'or

the $ey aspects o' the industry so !e can come up !ith the 9est practices 'or

eamp%e 9est practices 'or ho! to create a secure echan"e practices to 9rin"

miners to"ether so there is no co%%usion and minin" remains the commodity in

!hich supp%ies the 9ac$9one o' the 9%oc$chain !ithout inter'erin" !ith the users.

/hat !ere doin" ri"ht no! is co%%a9oratin" !ith the /or%d Ban$ and !ere

puttin" to"ether a con'erence in /ashin"ton C. veryone is invited 9ut !e

epect to see a %ot o' re"u%ators Ben;amin La!s$y !ho !ants to create the 9it

%icense !i%% 9e one o' the $ey note spea$ers at this con'erence. /hat !ere tryin"

to do is 9rin" to"ether the 9est minds o' the industry is 9rin" to"ether the 9est

minds o' the industry !ith those !ho !ou%d 9e interested in re"u%atin" the

industry so !e can provide them !ith a 9etter understandin" o' !hat it is !e can

provide and !hat $ind o' re"u%ations are %i$e%y to harm 9oth the user and the

"ro!th o' innovation. +hats on Apri% 47 th 44th6748 in /ashin"ton C.

ABL: 2s there a !e9site someone can chec$ out 'or that@

*: *es a%% this in'ormation is avai%a9%e at datauthority.or".

ABL: /hat are the types o' companies that youre %oo$in" 'or@ o you ta$e

individua% mem9ers@ /hats the va%ue o' 9ein" a mem9er 9esides supportin" the

concept@

*: /e do have individua% mem9ers the primary advanta"e o' 9ein" an

individua% mem9er is that there are many peop%e in our community !ho are very

interested in the success o' this industry and !ou%d %i$e to have a voice in

ma$in" sure that !e as an industry protect ourse%ves and users. /e made it

re%ative%y inepensive 'or individua% mem9ers to ;oin the annua% mem9ership

'or an individua% mem9er is 4777. Beyond there is a 6777 mem9ership 'ee 'orstart-ups and most companies !ho are mem9ers are payin" N777.

+his is a %ot more epensive than the Bitcoin 'oundation !hich is another

di=erence 9et!een us !ere see$in" to have hi"h%y committed mem9ers !ho

are invo%ved in a dai%y 9asis.

ABL: o you anticipate mem9ers 9ein" invo%ved one o' the criticisms o' the

Bitcoin 'oundation is that individua% mem9ers havent had anythin" to do.

*: *es a9so%ute%y. /e see$ to ma$e sure a%% our mem9ers are invo%ved 'or

eamp%e !hen it comes to companies there may 9e mu%tip%e peop%e 'rom the

company !ho are represented at di=erent pane%s o' the or"anisation. /ere more


11/22

o' a SJ, (Se%'-Je"u%atory ,r"anisation) mode% than a community 9ac$ed

or"anisation %i$e the Bitcoin 'oundation.

,n a persona% note not spea$in" 'or A+A on this. ,ne o' the issues 2ve had

!ith the Bitcoin 'oundation is that a %ot o' peop%e outside o' the community have

come to 9e%ieve that the Bitcoin 'oundation spea$s 'or the community. 2n my

mind no9ody spea$s 'or Bitcoin ecept 'or Bitcoin !e have made it ep%icit and

apparent that !e dont spea$ 'or the community 9y havin" an additiona% tier and

9ein" 'ocused on !hat type o' mem9ers !ere %oo$in" to have.

ABL: /eve ;ust 9een ta%$in" a9out A+A 9ut youre a%so invo%ved in other

pro;ects that are to me more interestin" than A+A. /hat do those pro;ects

have to do !ith A+A are they separated or are they a part o' a 9i""er picture@

*: A%% o' this comes 9ac$ to the moment 2 discovered Bitcoin 2 !as readin"

a9out Bitcoin on S%ashdot and immediate%y spi%%ed my co=ee on my %aptop. +hat

!as the >rst !ay Bitcoin cost me money. My thou"ht at this moment !as that

this is "oin" to 9e ama?in" 'or si months then theyre "oin" to $i%% it. A %ot o'peop%e thin$ that re"u%ators cant $i%% Bitcoins 9ut thats not true. +he reason

Bitcoin has va%ue today is 9ecause !ere a%% specu%atin" as a community that it

!i%% have va%ue in the 'uture. Loo$ !hat happened to China one country. +he

re"u%ators have a "reat dea% o' po!er and they can misuse it i' that !ere to

happen they cou%d ma$e our currency so encum9ered that no one !ou%d use it at

!hich point even the most hard-core users !ou%d >nd they cant trade !ith

anyone. verythin" that 2 have 9een doin" since then has in one !ay or another

9een a9out ma$in" Bitcoin sa'e 2 actua%%y thin$ !eve passed a certain point 2

used to !orry a9out !hether or not !e !ou%d survive. o! 2 !orry a9out !hat

$ind o' sou% or character its "oin" to have. A %ot o' peop%e are a!are o' the 'act 2

have 9een !or$in" and %oo$in" at options !ith various "overnments and inparticu%ar !ith the "overnment o' Honduras to create one or more ?ones !hich

!ou%d have %e"a% autonomy and throu"h currency competition cryptocurrencies

!ou%d have eua% 'ootin" !ith any o%%ar or uro. +his !ou%d create a p%ace in

!hich !e $no! !ere sa'e in usin" cryptocurrency.

Another thin" 2 have 9een invo%ved in is other than A+A is my company

epiphyte it is a company that is invo%ved in he%pin" %ar"e >nancia% institutions

and Bitcoin >nancia% institutions !or$ to"ether. /e have he%ped a num9er o'

echan"es >nd 9an$in" partners and dea% !ith the re"u%atory trou9%es that they

have had and !ere a%so he%pin" to 9rin" %ar"e 9an$s and >nancia% institutions

into the industry 9ecause the more !e can partner this !ay the stron"er !e !i%%

a%% 9e.

ABL: dan *a"o than$ you very much 'or your time.

*: +han$ you.

ABL: +oday on Lets +a%$ Bitcoin !ere ;oined 9y avid Bai%ey editor in chie' o'

yBitcoin ma"a?ine. avid 9ai%ey !hy Bitcoin@

avid Bai%ey: /hy not Bitcoin@ yBitcoin ma"a?ine is desi"ned to 9asica%%y ep%ain

Bitcoin to your mother and to he%p on-9oard ne! peop%e into the community that

arent active on Jeddit or the Bitcoin+a%$ 'orums. +heyre a 87year o%d or N7year


12/22

o%d that has the resources to do somethin" impact'u% in the space 9ut is ;ust

uneducated a9out !hats "oin" on.

ABL: *oure di=erent 'rom Bitcoin ma"a?ine !hich is the other print pu9%ication

that has 9een around. ota9%y 9ecause youre printin" a %ot more ma"a?ines

!hereas Bitcoin ma"a?ine is main%y on%ine. yBitcoin is 'ocused on the print-side

!hy is that@

B: 2n Bitcoin !e ta%$ a %ot a9out push and pu%% transactions !e thin$ a9out push

and pu%% mar$etin". ,ur approach to mar$etin" is to en"a"e a user that isnt

epectin" to ta%$ a9out Bitcoin 1!e have ma"a?ines3 at Lam9or"hini dea%erships

yacht c%u9s country c%u9s apa !ine vineyards aspen s$i resorts. /ere %oo$in"

the person !ho "oes into the doctors oGce sits do!n and is captured 'or 8N-

minutes !ith nothin" to do they see our ma"a?ine on the ta9%e and say 2ve

heard o' Bitcoin 9e'ore !hats that@ /e try to !rite a narrative that en"a"es

them you open the >rst pa"e and it $ind o' pushes you throu"h the ma"a?ine.

/ere di=erent 'rom Bitcoin ma"a?ine 9ecause our audience is comp%ete%ydi=erent !ere not "eared 'or the community. ,ur content in the ma"a?ine

rare%y chan"es issue to issue 9ecause !ere ;ust presentin" a "uide to Bitcoin

!hat Bitcoin is doesnt chan"ed every issue. ,ur approach to reach ne! peop%e

!ith every ma"a?ine !e dont !ant the same reader t!ice. /e printed R7777

ma"a?ines this uarter R7777 ma"a?ines net uarter to a comp%ete%y di=erent

"roup o' peop%e. Bitcoin ma"a?ine on the other-hand is "eared to!ards the

community its ne! and ana%ysis. 2' my mum pic$s up Bitcoin ma"a?ine and

she has actua%%y she has no c%ue !hats "oin" on she isnt that interested in

ho! the 'oundation !or$s.

2 thin$ !e have 'ound a very "ood niche in en"a"in" peop%e !e "et ca%%s to our

oGces a%% the time. /e ta%$ to our customersTc%ients every day and its !or$in"its a%so "reat 'or merchants that accept Bitcoin !ho may9e on%y have 4U o'

their customers !ho pay in Bitcoin. +he other 55U !i%% see theyre acceptin"

Bitcoin 'rom a stic$er in their !indo! and as$ !hat is that@ A merchant doesnt

have an hour to ep%ain Bitcoin to every sin"%e person !ho as$s that. +hey

!ou%dnt 9e in 9usiness anymore i' they had to do that. 2ts per'ect 'or merchants

to have a ma"a?ine 19ecause i' theyre as$ed a9out it they can "ive them a

ma"a?ine to 9etter educate them a9out Bitcoin and they can simp%y 'ocus on

9ein" merchants3.

ABL: /eve ;ust seen your second issue come out this started %ast year. /ou%d

you c%assi'y this as a success@ 2ts done pretty !e%%.

B: *es its a hu"e success !ere !or$in" !ith a9out 87 di=erent Bitcoin

companies and sti%% "ro!in". At this con'erence !e have pro9a9%y "ained a9out N

ne! customers and !hat is "oin" to 9e ecitin" is in the net issue !ere "oin"

to have our >rst non-Bitcoin company advertiser e.". Samsun" or Jac$space.

Peop%e that !ant to reach out to the Bitcoin community or !ant to reach out to

Bitcoiners in "enera% 9ecause our ma"a?ine is at every con'erence !ho arent

acceptin" Bitcoin yet. +hats a pretty ecitin" deve%opment. /ere a%so !or$in"

into trans%atin" into mu%tip%e %an"ua"es !ere "oin" to 9e %aunchin" a Spanish

and Chinese edition so there are a %ot o' pro;ects on-"oin". 2ts a %ot o' !or$ 9ut

its de>nite%y a 9i" success and our advertisers are very p%eased !ith resu%ts.


13/22

ABL: *ou said the content doesnt chan"e issue to issue is it !orth readin" the

ma"a?ine a"ain i' 2 have a%ready read it@ *ou say the artic%es arent tar"eted

to!ards the community 1ho!ever you have names that are preva%ent in the

community such as3 avid Perry Andreas Antonopou%os represented in the

ma"a?ine.

B: 2 have to 9e uiet a9out !hat 2 say 9ut there are some pro;ects in the pipe-

%ine that !ou%d perhaps "ive those !riters the opportunity 'or those !riters to

spea$ their minds a9out current events. Ho!ever thats not ready to 9e ta$en o=

the 9ac$ 9urner yet as 'or content !e t!ea$ the content. 2 thin$ !e added a

ne! artic%e in this issue a9out merchant adoption 9y +race Mayer net issue ic

Carey is "oin" to pu9%ish an artic%e a9out startin" a Bitcoin on%y 9usiness. /e

have some ne! content comin" in !e have these ma"a?ines at every

con'erence "enera%%y so peop%e can ta$e a coup%e home !ith them and share

them !ith !hoever they !ant.

2 thin$ !ere "oin" to do a coup%e o' thin"s that the industry !ou%d >nd

interestin" !ere "oin" to do a mar$et data pa"e !e !i%% "o to everycon'erence and co%%ect ana%ytics at every con'erence a9out Bitcoiners and then

pu9%ish that data in the ma"a?ine. /e have a%so 9een interested in an o%d

internet ma"a?ine ca%%ed red herrin" they have somethin" ca%% the red herrin"

477 !hich is the top 477 hottest start-ups in the 2nternet space. /e thin$ that

cou%d 9e interestin" i' !e reach out to our readers and as$ !hat start-ups theyre

ecited on and pu9%ish that data "et a %itt%e 9it o' competition "oin".

ABL: So ma$in" the !ho%e thin" a t!o !ay conversation instead o' ;ust ta%$in" to

the reader.

B: act%y 2 thin$ there is a reason to pic$ up each issue at the very %east to

see !hat ne! companies are advertisin". Some o' our advertisers %i$e toannounce ne! pro;ects in the ma"a?ine. But most%y !e !ant peop%e to pic$ them

up and share the ma"a?ine !ith someone !ho doesnt $no! a9out Bitcoin to try

and "et them in the Bitcoin space. ,ur very %o'ty "oa% 'or 6748 !as to on-9oard 4

mi%%ion ne! Bitcoin users !hich is a hu"e pro;ect 9ut !e have over 8N777

on%ine readers. /e have !e%% over I7777 ma"a?ines in the !i%d !hich shou%d 9e

seen 9y mu%tip%e peop%e 9e'ore theyre thro!n a!ay. /e are "oin" to 9e

increasin" our print count as !e%% as enterin" the Chinese and Spanish mar$et

so there is a s%im chance o' at %east ta%$in" to a mi%%ion peop%e.

ABL: avid Bai%ey than$s 'or 9ein" in this space and providin" a service %i$e this.

B: +han$ you 'or havin" me on your sho! and hope'u%%y !e%% 9ac$ soon !ith

some ecitin" ne!s do!n the road.

(Intermission - advertisement)

ABL: VryptoVit is the !or%ds >rst chrome 9ro!ser its the easiest 'astest Bitcoin

!a%%et payment system. /ith a simp%e one-c%ic$ insta%% it ta$es ;ust seconds to

"et your !a%%et setup and 9ecause VryptoVit >nds the address and payment 'or

you there is no more 'ussin" around or ta9 s!itchin". VryptoVit is more than ;ust

a !a%%et it comes !ith a pre%oaded PP encrypted socia% net!or$ and ne!s 'eeds

'rom Jeddit and oo"%e as !e%% as up-to-date 'rom echan"es. &ina%%y VryptoVit


14/22

directory a%%o!s you to ma$e t!o uic$ payments !ith any o' the BitPay

merchants once you insta%% VryptoVit you !ont need anythin" e%se.

&or more in'ormation or to do!n%oad VryptoVit visit $rypto$it.com

Lets +a%$ Bitcoin is heard each !ee$ 9y thousands o' peop%e !ho are

participatin" in the ne! di"ita% economy. ,ur %istener 9ase o' Bitcoin o!nersminers investors techno%o"ists and merchants is "ro!in" 'ast. /e o=er a %imited

num9er o' short advertisement s%ots in each sho! to $eep our %isteners en"a"ed

and to provide maimum impact 'or our sponsors. 2' youd to ta%$ to us a9out

Lets +a%$ Bitcoin send us an emai% at sponsorsW%etsta%$9itcoin.com.

(Intermission ends)

Stephanie Murphy: +his is Stephanie 'rom Lets ta%$ Bitcoin and 2m ta%$in" to

Macro Stren" 'rom enesis Minin".

Macro Stren": He%%o.

SM: Hi Marco !e%come to Lets +a%$ Bitcoin.

MS: +han$ you very much.

SM: *our company is ma$in" AS2C miners or minin" 'arms 'or scrypt minin" is

that correct@

MS: *es !ere actua%%y the !or%ds 9i""est hash 1poo%@3 provider 'or scrypt

minin".

SM: *ou a%so se%% minin" contracts@

MS: *es !e o=er our c%ients the a9i%ity to rent our miners that are in the most

eGcient in'rastructure and that are pieced to"ether !ith the most eGcient

hard!are. 2ts very convenient 'or our c%ients as they "et a 'ast hash rate they

!i%% immediate%y !ant to 9uy in. +hey dont have trou9%e !ith the heatin" noise

and they !ont have to !orry a9out space %i$e 9uyin" a house or stora"e 'or

the machines.

SM: ,$ so you ta$e care o' a%% that stu= and this is interested 9ecause 2 have

actua%%y mined 'or Litecoins myse%' and 2 set up my o!n minin" ri" !ith 'our

"raphics cards and it !as a pain to maintainE 2t $ept 9rea$in" do!n its

somethin" that reuires 9a9ysittin" a%% the time. 2' someone 9uys a contract !ithyou they !ou%dnt have to !orry a9out any o' that stu= ri"ht@

MS: *eah eact%y. /e $no! a %ot o' miners and a %ot o' peop%e see ho! there is a

ne"ative aspect to minin" the noise heatin" etc. /e ta$e care o' that in a very

eGcient !ay !ere %ocated in the most eGcient spot 'or e%ectricity !e a%so have

a%arm systems and !e have security around the 'arm 68TQ.

SM: ,$ te%% me more a9out ho! this !or$s !here are you 9ased and !hat does

the 'aci%ity %oo$s %i$e !here this minin" 'arm is happenin"@

MS: Sure !ere 9ased around the "%o9e. /ere in urope Asia and America our

'arms are pretty 9i" and !ere epandin" pretty 'ast.

SM: Ho! 9i"@ A !arehouse si?e@
mailto:[email protected]:[email protected]


15/22

MS: *es its !arehouse si?e.

SM: Ho! do you determine !here the most ener"y eGcient spot is to put them@

MS: /e%% !e chec$ed severa% %ocations and !e a%so have some dea%s !ith the

po!er providers to reduce the cost more.

SM: /hen you !a%$ into the room !hat does it %oo$ %i$e@ 2s it co%d do you chan"e

the temperature@

MS: ,ur %ocation are pretty %oud 9ecause a %ot o' miners ma$e a %ot o' noise the

heatin" is re"u%ated. /e have pro'essiona% coo%in" systems that ta$e care o' the

temperature so the miners are minin" at the most eGcient temperature.

SM: o you %itera%%y have some9ody monitorin" the hashin" and ma$in" sure

there is 477U up-time on a%% o' these units (or as c%ose to that as you can "et)@

MS: /e have scripts and pro"rams that determine immediate%y i' any ri" is

'ai%in" !e then have a 9i""er 9u=er in that case so our c%ients dont su=er 'rom

any do!n-time.

SM: /hats the 9urn rate %i$e@ Ho! o'ten does a card ;ust crash and 'ai%@

MS: /e%% 2 have to 9e honest you hear a %ot a9out that in the 'orums. 2 can say

!e have a %ot o' Ps and 9urnin" is very rare i' youre minin" in the correct

!ay. ,' course i' you stic$ pieces to"ether that dont 9e%on" to"ether the

pro9a9i%ity o' 9urnin" 9ecomes hi"her. Ho!ever i' you $no! !hat youre doin"

you can miti"ate that. /e have some specia% techno%o"y that detects i' there

!ou%d 9e a >re and immediate%y erases them !ithout destroyin" the hard!are.

SM: Are you minin" 'or one type o' coin@ ,r do you mine 'or di=erent type o'

script coins@

MS: +hats a "ood uestions !e o=er our c%ients to mine every script 9ased coin

they !ou%d %i$e to coin. +hey can ;ust ta$e the hash po!er they "et 'rom us and

can decide to 'or eamp%e mine R7U Litecoin 87U o"ecoin and ma$e their

o!n port'o%io 9y doin" this. /e a%so o=er the a9i%ity to mine the most pro>ta9%e

a%tcoin and to trans'er 9ac$ to Bitcoin !e do dai%y pay-outs in Bitcoin. +he c%ient

can decide they may say 2m a 9e%iever in this coin 2 !ou%d %i$e to point my

hash po!er on%y to a speci>c coin or they may say 2 trust you "uys you have

"ood eperience in this. #ust mine the most pro>ta9%e coin trade them to Bitcoin

and pay me !ith Bitcoin.

SM: /o! 2 $no! this ratio chan"es 9ut is it a%most as pro>ta9%e to mine 'or

scrypt coins and then convert them into Bitcoin as it is to ;ust mine direct%y 'or

Bitcoin ri"ht no! !ith your hashin" po!er@

MS: 2ts a%most more than dou9%e pro>t dependin" on the price o' the a%tcoin.

+here are some hu"e opportunities especia%%y i' an a%tcoin 9%o!s up 9ut

"enera%%y there is a%!ays a hu"e opportunity. 2' !e compare some providers that

o=er SHA-6NI hash po!er to us you !i%% pro9a9%y >nd that our product is a %ot

more pro>ta9%e !e have the data and you can compare it easi%y.

SM: Ho! did you "et into this !hat "ave you the idea oh 2%% ;ust start a "iant

minin" 'arm 'or script coins and to have %ocations !here 2 do this a%% over the!or%d. Ho! did you "et to that point@


16/22

MS: /e a%% started sma%% !e uic$%y rea%i?ed that its pro>ta9%e and rea%ised the

potentia% in the mar$et 'or "ro!th. /e had a 9i""er 'arm runnin" in urope one

o' our "uys a%so had a 9i" 'arm so !e decided to ma$e this company to"ether.

/e then increased the 'arm and 2 thin$ in the %ast t!o !ee$s !e trip%ed our 'arm

si?e. +here is a hu"e demand and !e try to do our 9est to "et our product to our

c%ients.

SM: Sometimes some o' this euipment is in short supp%y 'or eamp%e its hard

to "et A+2-Q5N7 "raphics cards so !hat do you do a9out that@

MS: Because !e have this %ar"e 'arm !e $no! 1the ri"ht peop%e to 9uy the

hard!are 'rom so !e "et "iven "ood o=ers !hen 9uyin" ne! hard!are.3

SM: 2 $no! there are peop%e !ho are c%aimin" to create AS2Cs that mine script

coins are you p%annin" to up"rade to those are any o' those ready 'or

primetime yet@ 2t seems as thou"h youre ;ust stic$in" !ith "raphics cards ri"ht@

MS: /e have 9een usin" "raphics cards 'rom the 9e"innin" 9ut !e didnt miss

the opportunity and !e a%ready have AS2Cs.

SM: *ou have them a%ready ,$.

MS: /e have them a%ready any!ay the per'ormance o' AS2Cs are not that

dramatic 'or Ps as they !ere in the Bitcoin !or%d. /e mine 1as eGcient%y as

possi9%e so AS2C is a part o' that.3

SM: o you have your o!n minin" poo%s@

MS: /ere settin" it up at the moment and as soon as its ready our c%ients !i%%

have privi%e"ed access to this poo% !e !i%% may9e ma$e it avai%a9%e 'or the pu9%ic

use %ater. Ho!ever our c%ients !i%% a%!ays maintain the privi%e"e at a%% times.SM: *ou have a 9i" operation are you >ndin" 9%oc$s 9y yourse%'@

MS: /e !i%% do it i' the poo% is ready 9ut at the moment !ere pretty >ne

determinin" the most eGcient and pro>ta9%e mu%ti-poo% or "enera%%y poo% and

;ust s!itchin" our hash po!er to those. +his is a hu"e opportunity 'or our c%ients

9ecause they dont need to search everyday !hat the most pro>ta9%e poo% is !e

determine it automatica%%y.

SM: /hat 2m !onderin" is !hat is the com9ined hashin" po!er o' a%% your

'aci%ities in enesis minin"@

MS: 2ts a %ot 2 may not "ive concrete detai%s 9ut !e have severa% thousands o'Ps and our co%%ection is "ro!in" more and more !e a%so "et a %ot o' po!er

'rom the ne! techno%o"y AS2Cs.

SM: Are !e ta%$in"

MS: /hat is important o' course is that there is a trend o' a%tcoins that can on%y

9e mined usin" an a%"orithm that is not minea9%e !ith AS2C techno%o"y so !e

!ant to $eep our Ps as they are sti%% very eGcient and pro>ta9%e.

SM: Are !e ta%$in" terra-hashes o' tota% hashin" po!er or %ar"er than that@ ive

me an order o' ma"nitude.

MS: (%au"hs)in the script !or%d a terra-hash is a hu"e amount as 2 thin$ Litecoin

is a9out 57i"a-hash.


17/22

SM: So you !ou%dnt have terra-hashes

MS: /e have "i"a-hashes o' course severa%. 2ts "ro!in" a%% the time as the

demand is hu"e a %ot o' peop%e see this opportunity as !e o=er the most

eGcient in'rastructure and the 9est !ay to "et the most pro>t out o' a%tcoins.

SM: 2' you !ere to ta$e your entire in'rastructure and point it a%% at o"e orLitecoin 'or eamp%e !ou%d you have enou"h to overta$e a9out N4U o' the

net!or$@ ,r may9e !ith sma%%er coins@

MS: May9e on sma%%er coins 9ut rest assured !e dont !ant to do this 9ecause

!e !ou%d shoot ourse%ves in our o!n %e"s. /e !ant the 9est 'or the minin" !or%d

and the 9est 'or the community !e dont thin$ o' doin" thin"s %i$e that.

SM: o peop%e accuse you o' doin" this (a N4U attac$)@

MS: +here are peop%e !ho accuse 9ut 2 can ca%m them do!n as its the 9est 'or

us i' the mar$et is doin" !e%% !e !ou%d never do somethin" %i$e that.

SM: o you ;ust see a pro>t opportunity@ ,r do you have an ideo%o"ica% reason

that you pre'er script coins over SHA-6NI@

MS: 2 thin$ there are a %ot o' script coins that have a %ot o' uniue economic

'eatures and 2 thin$ its rea%%y "ood that they eist. +hey o=er a %ot o' ne!er

opportunities 'or cryptocurrencies and o=er a %ot o' peop%e the option to diversi'y

their 'unds especia%%y i' theyre into Bitcoins and !ant to spread their ris$.

SM: A%ri"ht anythin" e%se you !ou%d %i$e to add@

MS: +here is a%so an opportunity 'or other cryptocurrencies 'or eamp%e the

economic eperiment in 2ce%and 2 thin$ its a "reat economic eperiment. 2 thin$

that there are a %ot ne! eperiments and ideas comin" up throu"h the a%tcoin!or%d and !e can a%% 9e a part o' that !ith our in'rastructure and minin" 'arm.

SM: reat !hats your !e9site !here can peop%e >nd you on the 2nternet@

MS: *ou can >nd us at https:TT!!!."enesis-minin".com

SM: A%ri"ht Macro than$ you so much.

MS: +han$ you very much Stephanie.

(Musical interlude)

ABL: +odays another >rst at Lets +a%$ Bitcoin !ere happy to p%ay host 'or astrate"y 9rie' intended 'or the Bitcoin community at %ar"e 'rom Broc$ Pierce and

the other 'o%$s at save"o.com. /e%% ;oin them no!.

Broc$ Pierce: +han$ you Adam 'or "ivin" us an audience Broc$ Pierce here #ohn

Betts !ho !i%% 9e assumin" the ro%e o' C, o' Mto rep%acin" Mar$ in the event

that !e can avert a %iuidation in 'avour o' reha9i%itation and a%so /i%%iam 0ui"%y

is here !ho has %ed this e=ort to save Mto over the %ast severa% !ee$s. /i%%iam

is a %on"-time venture capita%ist 2%% %et everyone introduce themse%ves.

2m Broc$ 2 have 9een in the di"ita% currency space since the %ate 57s 2 have

9een 'o%%o!in" Bitcoin since its inception and 2 have 9een !or$in" more or %ess

'u%% time on 9ui%din" 9usiness and ma$in" investments in the ecosysteminc%udin" the under%yin" currency as !e%% as others 'or a9out 6years no!. As a
https://www.genesis-mining.com/https://www.genesis-mining.com/


18/22

resu%t o' that havin" seen the 'ai%ure o' Mto 'rom my perceptive 2 sa! this as

uite a tra"edy 'or the industry. ot so much 'or us as insiders un%ess o' course

you %ost coins or cash there and 2 'ee% 'or every9ody !ho has. As insiders in the

industry !e understand that Bitcoin !i%% survive and over the %on" term c%ear%y

Mto is not "oin" to a%ter the %on" term course o' everythin" that !ere doin"

here. But in the short term it certain%y has 1created3 a very ne"ative responseamon"st the "enera% pu9%ic 2 cant even count the amount o' peop%e !ho came

up to me 'o%%o!in" the co%%apse o' Mto that said Broc$ 2m rea%%y sorry that

Bitcoin 'ai%ed. 2ts ;ust ep%ainin" the di=erence 9et!een Mto and Bitcoin

9ecause most peop%e are ;ust readin" head%ines and 2 thin$ amon"st the "enera%

pu9%ic its certain%y had a very ne"ative reaction. 1A%so3 'or peop%e that !ere on

the 'ence thin$in" a9out ma$in" investments and ;umpin" into this space 2

$no! its had a very ne"ative reaction and o' course most o' a%% 'or a%% o' those

peop%e !ho %ost coin and cash there.

2 do 9e%ieve the 'ai%ure o' Mto is "oin" to have a ne"ative reaction and

ne"ative imp%ications 'or those !ho have %ost money as !e%% as amon"st the

"enera% pu9%ic and perhaps most o' a%% it certain%y created a "reen %i"ht 'or

re"u%ators. 2 dont thin$ !e have seen the ne"ative impacts that are "oin" to

come 'rom that to ;am throu"h ;ust a9out anythin" they !ant. /hen 9an$s 'ai%

"overnments o'ten have to step in 1ho!ever3 the Bitcoin community is capa9%e

o' se%'-re"u%ation its a9%e to se%'-correct and hea% !ithout havin" a 9ai% out 'rom

anyone. #ust 'rom peop%e in the community steppin"-up and tryin" to ma$e the

most o' a 9ad situation !hich is !hat !ere attemptin" to do here !e%% !a%$

throu"h it in "reater detai%. /i%%iam do you !ant to introduce yourse%'@

/i%%iam 0ui"%y: *eah this is /i%%iam 0ui"%y. 2 have 9een invo%ved in a %ot o' ear%y

sta"e company >nancin" over the years and have a pretty etensive 9ac$"round

in >nancia% services. As it re%ates to Bitcoin and Mto - my interest in tryin" todo somethin" 'or Mto came 'rom understandin" some o' the thin"s Broc$

spo$e a9out. /hich is !hat !ou%d happen i' Mto 'ai%ed and not ;ust to the

peop%e !ho %ost coins 9ut more 9road%y !hat processes !ere "oin" to 9e put in

p%ace to administer a company %i$e Mto. +hat !as a particu%ar concern o' mine

9ecause 2 had a concern that there is such %itt%e understand a9out !hat Bitcoin

are and !hat cryptocurrency is. My concern is that the court system doesnt

$no! ho! to administer a company and receivership %i$e Mto. very concern 2

had has 9een rea%ised essentia%%y the #apanese court has decided that Bitcoin is

not somethin" that they have ;urisdiction over or somethin" that they appreciate

or understand. +hey assi"n very %itt%e !ei"ht to the creditors !ho are o!ed

Bitcoin this is rea%%y trou9%in" and its not necessari%y an easy thin" to educateeven the Bitcoin community around 9ut 2 !ant anyone %istenin" to this to rea%%y

understand that this is a (4:76:45.X 2+HAJ/,J) settin" event.

Mto is the >rst rea% 9an$ruptcy o' a Bitcoin company it !as 9an$rupt in #apan

and 2 thin$ it !ou%d have 9een 9etter i' it happened in the S as !e have a %ot

more protections. +he concerns !e have are a%% 9ein" rea%ised - !hich is that

"iven the courts very %imited or no understandin" o' cryptocurrency their >rst

order o' 9usiness seems to 9e to %iuidate the 9usiness. ven that part o' !hat

theyre doin" is 9ein" done in !hat 2 !ou%d say is a very amateurish !ay. Anyone

that has any assets in Bitcoin or runs a Bitcoin company shou%d 9e very

concerned 9y the 'act that the #apanese courts have decided in a matter o'!ee$s that rather than "oin" throu"h a comprehensive ana%ysis 1to >"ure out the


19/22

9est3 outcome 'or creditors and customers they have ;umped ri"ht to %ets

%iuidate.

2' !e start to see this sort o' practice happen any time a Bitcoin company or

cryptocurrency company "ets into trou9%e !e essentia%%y !i%% have no protection.

My vie! is that any company inc%udin" a Bitcoin company shou%d have its day in

court and settin" precedent no! is the 9est !ay to ensure "oin" 'or!ard that

companies that "et into trou9%e and the creditors that etend any type o' credit

to these companies inc%udin" deposits are proper%y administered. 2 thin$ !e

need the Bitcoin community to understand !hether or not they have any assets

!ith Mto they too are 9ein" a=ected 9y this 9ecause the procedures put in

p%ace to administer the company in 9an$ruptcy !i%% set a precedence 'or a%% other

Bitcoin companies that !i%% 'o%%o!. #ohn !hy dont you ;ump in.

#ohn Betts: 2d %i$e to introduce myse%' 12m #ohn Betts3 2 have 9een 9ui%din"

companies 'or over 67years startin" !ith internet in'rastructure companies in the

ear%y 57s and the %ast 46 years 2 have 9een 'ocusin" on /a%% Street. /or$in" !ith

companies %i$e o%dman Sachs Mor"an Stan%ey in the ear%y days o' e%ectronictradin" and automated tradin". 2m seein" a %ot 1simi%arities in3 the cha%%en"es

that Bitcoin has 9een 'acin" !ith echan"es and the ear%y /a%% Street tradin". 2

have a%so 9een !or$in" !ith Broc$ /i%%iam and our other partners Matt and

#ohnathon 'or the %ast 6-months to %ead this e=ort to ta$e over Mto and to %oo$

a'ter the creditors. 2ts 9een a very interestin" eperience and 2 must say that 2m

very encoura"ed 9y the support 'rom the community 'or our e=ort. A %ot o'

peop%e are rea%isin" that i' this is not done in private hands as /i%%iam has

articu%ated to %ead the e=ort to reha9i%itate Mto.

2' this "oes the #apanese courts it !i%% 9e very detrimenta% particu%ar%y to the

customers and 2 thin$ i' !e can set a precedent here to > our o!n and to ma$e!ho%e 'or the customers. ot on%y is it "ood 'or the eistin" ecosystem 9ut it a%so

demonstrates 'or a%% those !ho are !atchin" Bitcoin 'rom the outside !hether

its the other participants that !e need to increase the va%ue o' Bitcoin and the

Bitcoin ecosystem. 12 thin$ it !i%% a%so sho! the re"u%ators that3 Bitcoin is sa'e

its run 9y responsi9%e peop%e that !i%% ta$e care o' pro9%ems !i%% step in i'

needed 'or the ecosystem and to he%p 1protect users investment in Bitcoin3.

Since !eve %aunched save"o.com on +hursday !e have 9een "ettin" an

incredi9%e response 'rom creditors and a%so peop%e !ho arent creditors. ,ver the

net !ee$ 2 cant understate ho! important it is to "et our messa"e out there to

the supervisor o' the +o$yo istrict Court that %iuidation is not the ri"ht !ay to

"o that this is not company property that !as sto%en they !ere customerassets. +hese customer assets need to 9e returned to the customers and the

courts rea%%y need to %oo$ at !hats in the interest o' the creditors and not those

!ho are 9ein" protected 9y this 9an$ruptcy !hose interests are 9ein" put ahead

o' the creditors.

BP: +he options as they stand today appear to 9e one o' t!o thin"s thats "oin"

to happen. ,ne the %iuidation as !as presented ear%ier this !ee$ is "oin" to

continue there is ?ero possi9i%ity that those coins are "oin" to 9e distri9uted

9ac$ to the customers anytime soon. ,n avera"e a %iuidation 9an$ruptcy in

#apan ta$es 47years !hat !i%% happen is those coins are "oin" to 9e so%d throu"h

one o' a num9er o' potentia% options. +hose coins are "oin" to 9e converted into>at so that there is a %ar"e 9a%ance sheet o' cash to pay a%% o' the consu%tants


20/22

%a!yers auditors etc. !ho over the net num9er o' years are "oin" to 9e tryin"

to >"ure out !hat to do.

,n avera"e in #apan RU o' the 'unds end up in the hands o' creditors 2 thin$ that

every customer !ants their coins 9ac$ 2 dont thin$ they !ant them chan"ed

into >at. 2' !e ta$e #apanese avera"es peop%e !i%% "et their money 9ac$ in a9out

47years 9ut it !i%% 9e very %itt%e i' anythin".

+he a%ternative to this is a reha9i%itation p%an !hich entai%s "ettin" peop%e their

coins 9ac$ as uic$%y as human%y possi9%e. 2' 2 had my !ay it !ou%d 9e the day

a'ter the reha9i%itation is comp%eted thou"h !e do need to understand eact%y

!ho is o!ed !hat and ma$e sure that the coins are distri9uted on a pro-rota as

uic$%y as possi9%e. /hich means !e need to >"ure out !hat happened

distri9ute the coin "et the 9usiness 9ac$ up and operationa% and hope'u%%y some

o' the community !i%% come 9ac$ and trade on that p%at'orm. 1+he p%at'orm3

!ou%d have an entire%y ne! in'rastructure and system 1none o' the o%d Mto

!ou%d 9e part o' the p%at'orm3 an entire%y di=erent mana"ement team inc%udin"

the C, #ohn !ou%d 9e rep%acin" Mar$ and a proper contro% system in"overnance as !e%% as se"re"ation o' customer 'unds. A"ain in a !orst case

scenario assumin" !e 'ai% at "ettin" the echan"e operationa% assumin" !e 'ai%

at reha9i%itatin" the echan"e itse%' customers are sti%% 9etter served in a

reha9i%itation process !here peop%e that understand the 9usiness !ho

understand Bitcoin and cryptocurrency are in the contro%%ed position to ma$e

sure those 'unds are distri9uted 9ac$ to customers. Speci>ca%%y the coins as

uic$%y as possi9%e.

+he option is a %iuidation !here 2 thin$ its a horri>c outcome in terms o'

precedence "reen %i"ht 'or re"u%ators customers "ettin" %itt%e i' any coins a %on"

time 'rom no! versus peop%e "ettin" their coin 9ac$ (at %east !hats %e't o' it) asuic$%y as possi9%e in an attempt to reha9i%itate the 9usiness !here !ere

committed to "ettin" everyone 9ac$ 477U o' their money and coin over some

period o' time. /hich !e hope to 9e success'u% throu"h the resurrection o' the

echan"e as !e%% as peop%e comin" 9ac$ and sharin" those revenues into a

restitution 'und 'or creditors and potentia%%y do!n the road in a "ame "o coin

'ashion providin" an opportunity to convert %ia9i%ity into euity assumin" that

its o' interest o' peop%e not an o9%i"ation 9ut its an option !e hope to present.

A"ain i' !ere success'u% in the same !ay !ere seein" si"ni>cant >nancin" in

this space !e !ou%d attempt to >nance this 9usiness in a !ay to "et capita% in

'aster so !e can "et coins 9ac$ in the hands o' customers that are at a %oss here.

2 thin$ the options are pretty c%ear and 2 thin$ once peop%e start to understandoption A and option B its very diGcu%t 1re"ard%ess3 o' your opinion o' Mto 2

dont $no! ho! anyone can conceiva9%y su""est a %iuidation !here %a!yers

essentia%%y "et to 'eed o= a carcass 'or potentia%%y as %on" or at %east an avera"e

o' 47 years !hi%st customers are not "ettin" !hat they need. 2 have 9een on

phone ca%%s 'or past t!o days !ith various creditors 'rom around the !or%d !ho

had in some cases had pretty much everythin" they o!ned tied up in this

9ecause they 9e%ieved in Bitcoin in the same !ay that 2 do and 2 $no! many o'

us do 2ts a%most re%i"ious to some o' us and !hen you have that much 'aith and

con>dence in !hat !ere doin" and the %on"-term potentia% and imp%ications

some o' us have made etraordinary 9ets 9ased on our 9e%ie' system.

n'ortunate%y 'or many o' those peop%e it invo%ved 9an$in" !ith the !ron"


21/22

institution 9ein" Mto as a resu%t o' this some peop%e are "oin" to %ose

everythin" or a%most everythin".

2ts horri9%e and 2 thin$ theres an opportunity to do somethin" other than stay on

the courseTpath that !ere on.

/0: *eah this is /i%%iam a"ain. 2 !ou%d say to every9ody !hether or not youhave coin in Mto or not i' you are part o' the Bitcoin community the more

visi9i%ity !e can shine on this process 1the 9etter3. 1/e3 need to immediate%y

stop the %iuidation 9ecause a %iuidation not on%y means as Broc$ has a%ready

mentioned very %itt%e recovery. 2t a%so means that this process 9ecomes opaue

very 'ast 9ecause once the administrator (the 9an$ruptcy court) assumes

responsi9i%ity 'or the 9usiness very %itt%e communication is "oin" to 9e presented

to a%% o' the creditors and other peop%e !ho care. Some !i%% say there has 9een

a%most no communication to date and !e a"ree thats one o' the reasons !e

thou"ht mana"ed had to 9e rep%aced 9ut 9eyond that very %itt%e is "oin" to 9e

understood 9ecause the administrators 9oss at that point is the #apanese Court

System not customers.

,ne o' the thin"s !e !anted to do immediate%y once !e o9tain contro% o' the

9usiness !hich is sti%% the o9;ective is the 9e"in providin" 'ar 9etter

communication !ith the community a9out !hat is "oin" on. 2n #apan 'or instance

!e a%% had to "et up-to-speed very uic$%y on this particu%ar process as 2 said in

the 9e"innin" its very inconvenient that this is happenin" in #apan 'or various

reasons one o' course the %an"ua"e 9arriers. +he other reason is that #apan 'a%%s

into the cate"ory o' sayin" !e dont assume any va%ue is in Bitcoin on one

hand you can say thats a (4:4R:N8.8 dno!ord) 'air po%icy !hich 'or some o' us

thats >ne. 2t 9ecomes a trou9%in" !hen a 9an$ruptcy court says that these

Bitcoins are o' no va%ue i' a creditor has a %ia9i%ity !ith the company 9ut thecourt says !e dont reco"ni?e that as a rea% thin". *ou run into the pro9%em o'

not havin" any standin" as the creditor and one o' the thin"s Broc$ and #ohn

e%uded to !as savin" Mto and the save"o.com p%an is to ensure that a%% o' us

have a !ay to voice the 'act that these creditors are rea% peop%e !ho 9e%ieve

their assets are rea% and that they !ant a process in p%ace 'or identi'yin" !ho

they are and !hen theyre "oin" to 9e paid.

#B: /i%%iam i' 2 can add in there as !e%% a %ot o' the customers and creditors have

come to us and as$ed us !hat can !e do !hat do !e need to do@ +here are a

coup%e o' thin"s procedura%%y as !e%% as the messa"e that needs to "et out there

that /i%%iam and Broc$ have 9een e%udin". +he >rst is "o to save"o.com

re"ister !ith us su9scri9e to our ne!s%etter !e !i%% $eep you up-to-date !ithour deve%opments. As !e have the voice o' the creditors !e have 9een as$ed to

co-ordinate the voice o' the creditors 9y the supervisor and to present the

support 'or reha9i%itation so p%ease do this and !e !i%% 9e in touch !ith you. 2n

terms o' !hat e%se you can do is !e !i%% 9e re%easin" a creditor support %etter on

the save"o !e9site that you can su9mit to the supervisor in support o' this

p%an. +he other thin" that is incredi9%y important and has 9een one o' our

9i""est 'rustrations over the %ast t!o months is that there has 9een no 'orensic

accountin" sti%% to date as to !hat has happened !hy customers 'unds !ere

sto%en and !hat the customers position is.

2 $no! Mto %aunched their site a"ain so customers can %oo$ at their positionsit is our >rm vie! that those arent necessari%y accurate and that there has 9een


22/22

some irre"u%arities in the accountin" data9ase at Mto. +he on%y !ay everyone

can 9e certain a9out !hat their positions are so theyre not 9ein" ta$en

advanta"e o' 'or a second time durin" this %iuidation process is to demand a 'u%%

independent auditin" and accountin" o' !hat happened and !hat the customers

positions are as !e%% as ensurin" that the customers assets are 9ein" protected.

/e need to ma$e it very c%ear to the supervisor that these a customer assetsnot company assets and the customer assets need to 9e returned to the

customers. P%ease come over and re"ister on save"o.com and "ive us your

support.

BP: #ohn %et me ;ust c%ose this out since 2 thin$ !ere a9out out o' time. But a"ain

the time'rame !ere operatin" under !e 9e%ieve !e have %ess than a !ee$ to

avert the course. A%% o' the emp%oyees are "oin" to 9e %et "o everythin" is "oin"

to end up very soon at a point !here there is no a9i%ity to avert a %iuidation and

put us 9ac$ on trac$ o' reha9i%itation. /e need your he%p no! this cant 9e done

!ithout the support o' the community !ithout the support o' the creditors come

one come a%% !e !e%come every9odys he%p. /ere open to havin" conversations

!ith any9ody a9out ho! to he%p "oin" 'or!ard !e !ant to create creditor

committees to ma$e sure these thin"s "et hand%ed in a !ay !here every9ody is

represented. +his is a community e=ort and !ere in communication !ith the

supervisor every day !e need your he%p to channe% this in'ormation to the courts

in a !ay in !hich !e can avert a %iuidation in 'avour o' a reha9i%itation. +he

s%o"an or ta" %ine !ere usin" is reha9i%itate dont %iuidate reha9i%itate dont

%iuidate. Save"o.com than$ you Adam.

ABL: +han$s 'or %istenin" to episode 476 o' Lets +a%$ Bitcoin content 'or todays

episode !as provided 9y #ac$son Pa%mer dan *a"o &%avion Char%on avid

Bai%ey Marco Stren" Stephanie Murphy and Adam B Levine. Additiona%

en"ineerin" !as provided 9y Crysta% Levine. Music 'or this episode !as provided9y #ared Ju9ens and enera% &u??. Any uestions or comments@ mai%

adamW%etsta%$9itcoin.com. Have a "ood one.
mailto:[email protected]:[email protected]

Let's Talk Bitcoin, episode 102, "SaveGox and the Show Floor"

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Transcript of Let's Talk Bitcoin, episode 102, "SaveGox and the Show Floor"