Lawrence Nardi Deposition - Part 2

8/11/2019 Lawrence Nardi Deposition - Part 2

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e6eaab86-8de3-4186-b620-7a9onically signed by Cindy Conner (301-016-457-7653)onically signed by Cindy Conner (301-016-457-7653)

Lawrence Nardi - 5/9/2012

www.firstchoicereporting.com Worldwide Scheduling 800.939.0093First Choice Reporting & Video Services

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I N THE CI RCUI T COURT OF THE FI FTH J UDI CI AL CI RCUI T, I N AND FOR LAKE COUNTY, FLORI DA

CASE NO. : 2009 CA 005717

J PMORGAN Chase BANK, N. A. as Successor i n I nt er est t o Washi ngton Mut ual BANK,

Pl ai nt i f f ,

VS

SHERONE D. WAI SOME, et al ,

Def endant .

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * DEPOSI TI ON OF: LAWRENCE NARDI , VOLUME 2 OF 2

DATE TAKEN: MAY 9, 2012

TI ME: 9: 03 A. M.

PLACE: 121 SOUTH ORANGE AVENUE SUI TE 800 ORLANDO, FLORI DA

REPORTED BY: CI NDY CONNER, CSR, RPR AND NOTARY PUBLI C

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


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Page 202

1 A P P E A R A N C E S

2

3 RACHEL CREWS, ESQUI RE Gr ay Robi nson, P. A.4 301 East Pi ne St r eet

Sui t e 14005 Or l ando, Fl or i da 32801

6 APPEARI NG ON BEHALF OF THE PLAI NTI FF

7 J ACQULYN MACK, ESQUI RE

8 Mack Law Fi rm Chart er ed 2022 Pl aci da Road

9 Engl ewood, Fl or i da 34224

10 APPEARI NG ON BEHALF OF THE DEFENDANTS

11

12

13 ALSO PRESENT: Mr . Sherome Wai some Mr . Nye Laval l e

14

1516

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25


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Page 203

1 C O N T E N T S

2

3 TESTI MONY OF LAWRENCE NARDI , VOLUME 2 of 24 Di r ect Exami nat i on by Ms. Mack ( cont i nued) 205

5 CERTI FI CATE OF REPORTER 327

6 CERTI FI CATE OF OATH 328

7 LETTER OF TRANSMI TTAL 330

8 - - - - -

9 E X H I B I T S

10 PAGE

11 DEFENDANT' S EXHI BI T 14

12 3/ 8/ 12 r econci l ed mar ket val ue 207

13 DEFENDANT' S EXHI BI T 15 DDCH scr een shot 210


15 SER1 scr een shot s 215

16 DEFENDANT' S EXHI BI T 17 Checkl i st 220


18 Af f i davi t 236

19 DEFENDANT' S EXHI BI T 19 Purchase and assumpt i on agr eement 251


21 Ver i f i ed amended compl ai nt 263

22 DEFENDANT' S EXHI BI T 21 Cust omer ser vi ce comments 281


24 Pl ai nt i f f ' s r epl y t o i nt er r ogat or i es 292

25


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Page 204

1 E X H I B I T S ( cont i nued)

2

3 DEFENDANT' S EXHI BI T 23 3270 Expl or er DLQ7 2954

DEFENDANT' S EXHI BI T 245 3270 Expl or er ANAN 300

6 DEFENDANT' S EXHI BI T 25 3270 Expl or er BNKN 301


8 3270 Expl or er REON 302

9 DEFENDANT' S EXHI BI T 27 3270 Expl or er LMTN 303


11 3270 Expl or er LMTN 307



14 3270 Expl or er LMTN 309



17 Col l at er al val uat i on r epor t 319

18

19 - - - - -

20

21

22

23

24

25


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Page 205

1 ( Begi nni ng of Vol ume 2 of 2. )

2 DI RECT EXAMI NATI ON ( cont i nuat i on)

3 BY MS. MACK:4 Q Do you know why one has t hat i nter i or

5 appr ai sal box and t he other one doesn' t ? The other one,

6 meani ng Exhi bi t 12?

7 A Bear with me just a moment.

8 Q Sur e. That ' s f i ne.

9 A You're talking about the -- you mentioned

10 interior appraisal section. I'm sorry.

11 Q I ' m goi ng t o have t o st and over you.

12 A That's fine. I just want to make sure I'm

13 looking at the right section.

14 Q Or i gi nal appr ai sal i nt egr i t y sect i on.

15 A Oh.

16 Q I ' m sor r y. I t ot al l y but cher ed t hat .

17 A Why one would have it and the other wouldn't?

18 Q Uh- huh, yes.

19 A Well, let me look at the -- I mean, if I was

20 looking at these two documents, the value

21 misrepresentation and original appraisal integrity

22 section would be, to me, interchangeable. They may have

23 just changed the verbiage in the document from March to

24 September to reflect a different heading for that

25 section.


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1 Q Okay.

2 A But they -- they look to, you know,

3 contemplate the same thing, is whether or not there was

4 integrity in the original appraisals that we were given.

5 And I think if it was me, I probably would avoid terms

6 like "value misrepresentation" as sections in the

7 document like this. I would probably go with something

8 like integrity review or something like that versus --

9 so it could just be a new version of the document. I

10 don't know for sure. But they contemplate the same

11 thing.

12 Q Okay. The - - I ' m sorr y. That document - - I

13 have t o l ean over you. Your i nvest or number on t hat one

14 i s A01, and t hey ar e bot h t he same. And I bel i eve t he

15 onl y di f f er ence i s t he syst em whi ch you not ed was - -

16 i t ' s S on Exhi bi t 12 and P on Exhi bi t 13.

17 A Yes.

18 Q Do you have any i dea what i t means - -

19 A I don't.

20 Q - - now?

21 A I really don't.

22 Q Okay. Al l r i ght .

23 The next document we have i s goi ng t o be

24 anot her val uat i on.

25 A Okay.


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Page 207

1 Q Okay. Exhi bi t 14 i s - -

2 ( Def endant ' s Exhi bi t 14 was marked. )

3 Q ( By Ms. Mack) Now, j ust a coupl e of quest i ons4 about Exhi bi t 14. I t ' s Mar ch of 2012, r i ght ?

5 A It is.

6 Q Okay. And t he val ue i s down t o 310.

7 A Back to 310, yeah. Or 315, 310.

8 Q Yeah. Back down t her e agai n. Woul d you have

9 t he same expl anat i on as t o why t here' s t hat change?

10 J ust i s i t an i ndi vi dual appr ai ser i ssue? Or i s t her e

11 somethi ng that you can see that woul d account f or t he

12 di f f er ence of $20, 000?

13 A Well, I think if you take it in their

14 totality, they are clearly -- I mean, you can look at

15 the top. One is -- the appraiser on one is David Ruiz.

16 The other one is Mark Lee. So, again, there is going to

17 be some differing opinion, naturally. I think if every

18 appraisal came to the same number, there would be

19 something wrong. You want to see some differences in

20 opinion.

21 Also, Exhibit 13 actually has -- even though

22 it lists 330 as repaired, it gives some additional

23 breakdowns as to other numbers. So there was -- there

24 was another -- there was an appraisal at 317. So,

25 clearly, there was some opinion changes -- or I should


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1 say opinion differences between these brokers. But

2 that's pretty common. You are not going to find

3 everyone getting the same number.

4 As far as it going down, I don't think anyone

5 is surprised in a -- you know, in a period from

6 September to March, especially end of September of 2011

7 to '12, that the market continued to depreciate. Unless

8 there is something going on in that county that I'm not

9 aware of, I think it's pretty consistent with what is

10 going on everywhere. I'm not a property appraiser.

11 Q No, I know.

12 A I'm just telling you what I know from

13 reviewing these loans. We haven't really seen any

14 recoveries yet.

15 Q Keep our f i ngers cr ossed.

16 Okay. Number 14 has al so an i ndi cat i on of an

17 i nvest or . I t ' s X99.

18 A It is.

19 Q What does X99 st and f or ?

20 A I don't know.

21 Q Woul d t he i nvest or have changed between

22 Exhi bi t s 12 and 13 and 14?

23 A Not very likely, no.

24 Q Okay.

25 A The codes could have changed, but I would -- I


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1 would certainly want to refer back to a code list that

2 would tell me what X99 is, what A01 is, if they are

3 somehow related or, you know, an explanation.

4 Q Okay.

5 A But I don't have the convenience of knowing

6 that.

7 Q So i f we want ed t o f i nd out - - "we" bei ng

8 mysel f and my cl i ent and exper t , we woul d ask y' al l f or

9 a code l i st - -

10 A Yeah.

11 Q - - t hat woul d expl ai n t hose codes?

12 A Yes.

13 Q Okay. That ' s what we woul d cal l i t , i s a code

14 l i st ?

15 A Yeah. I think it's a code list.

16 Q Okay.

17 A To be specific, there's other code lists.

18 Q That ' s t he t r ansact i on code l i st ?

19 A Yes.

20 Q Got cha. Now, i f you wi l l not e t her e, t he

21 or i gi nal appl i cat i on dat e of t he l oan - - I t hi nk i t ' s

22 cal l ed l oan or i g ap dat e - - t el l me t hat ' s a mi st ake,

23 pl ease.

24 A Well, it's probably like if somebody didn't

25 put any information out there, so it defaulted 1/1 of


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1 1900.

2 Q Because t hi s l oan di d not or i gi nat e i n J anuar y

3 of 1900. Okay.4 So do you know i f t hat i s a def aul t f i el d

5 val ue? I s i t somet hi ng t hat you can say, Hey, I ' ve seen

6 t hat happen bef ore?

7 A I haven't seen that happen before. I was

8 looking back to these other two, and I think they are

9 filled in. So, you know, I don't work with these

10 documents on a daily basis, so I couldn't say with any

11 reliable firsthand knowledge, but --

12 Q Fai r enough. I appr eci at e i t . Thank you.

13 Okay. We ar e goi ng t o move on t o somet hi ng a

14 l i t t l e di f f er ent , whi ch i s goi ng t o be your - - actual l y,

15 we' r e goi ng back t o t he Expl or er .

16 A Okay. I'm ready.

17 Q Okay. Those - - coul d you t el l me, f i r st of

18 al l - -

19 MS. MACK: Let ' s make t hat 15, f i r st of al l .


21 Q ( By Ms. Mack) Al l r i ght . What i s Exhi bi t 15,

22 Mr . Nar di ?

23 A This is a print-off of the DD -- DDCH screens

24 called Corporate Advance History Screens. So these are

25 really just transactions for corporate advances for the


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1 loan. These go back -- these go back to, like, April of

2 '09, so I don't know if it's a full counting of all the

3 advances, but it's a pretty good chunk of them.

4 Q Okay. Wi t h r egard t o t he advances, i f you

5 coul d j ust go thr ough each l i ne of advances and t el l me

6 what i t st ands f or and who the advance was made payabl e

7 t o and whet her or not i t was r ecover abl e or not .

8 A Whether it was recoverable or not? I don't

9 know if I can answer that based upon this document.

10 Q Okay.

11 A I can do my best with the rest of your

12 question.

13 Q Okay.

14 A And you want to go through every page?

15 Q Ever y l i ne. I coul d r ead t hem of f t o you, but

16 I t hi nk we can get t hr ough qui cker i f you go t hr ough t he

17 l i nes of each dat e.

18 A Okay. We have Transaction Code 33 -- 633 SAP,

19 date March 2012, $65. It says that escrow payee is

20 M-g-c-o-l-l-i-n-t-e. Payee is -- payee code is 85N16.

21 RSN, I think that's a reason code. REAP, and a

22 description is REO appraisal.

23 The next line is 633 --

24 MS. CREWS: He' s j ust r eadi ng t he document

25 whi ch speaks f or i t sel f .


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1 MS. MACK: Yeah. I ' m goi ng t o ask f or - -

2 Q ( By Ms. Mack) I f you coul d t el l me what

3 Tr ansact i on Code 633 means.4 A I don't know.

5 Q Do you know who t hat payee i s?

6 A There are so many payees in the system that I

7 couldn't tell you for sure. It's -- I mean, the

8 description is REO appraisal, so I think it's clearly

9 identifying an appraisal fee. And the escrow payee and

10 their code is probably part of their name or maybe part

11 of their business name.

12 Q Okay. I f you coul d go t o t he next l i ne,

13 pl ease.

14 A Sure.

15 MS. CREWS: I s t here a quest i on about i t ?

16 MS. MACK: I don' t know what t hey mean.

17 MS. CREWS: What what means?

18 MS. MACK: Wel l , I mean, we can go t hrough i t

19 t he other way, i f you want me t o. I can go t hr ough

20 i t l i ne by l i ne, i f you want me t o. I was j ust

21 t r yi ng t o get t hr ough t hi s a l i t t l e f ast er .

22 MS. CREWS: I mean, what ' s t he gener al

23 quest i on?

24 MS. MACK: I woul d l i ke t o know t he

25 t r ansacti on codes. The Al ber t i l l i , I can f i gur e


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1 t hat out . Okay? But , l i ke, t he REO appr ai sal t hat

2 you j ust i dent i f i ed, I have no i dea what t hat was.

3 So t he t r ansact i on codes, of cour se, I don' t know4 t hose ei t her .

5 MS. CREWS: You' r e not goi ng t o - - are you

6 goi ng t o know any of t he t r ansact i on codes?

7 THE WI TNESS: I ' m not goi ng t o know t hemof f

8 t he t op of my head, no. We can get you a l i st .

9 Q ( By Ms. Mack) Okay. Now, t he Al ber t i l l i

10 ones, I know who t hose ar e.

11 A Okay.

12 Q Those ar e sel f - expl anat or y. But , l i ke, t he

13 payee' s names t hat ar e not cl ear , maybe I shoul d j ust go

14 t hrough t hose and ask you.

15 A Well, let me look at a few of them and see if

16 I can help you out.

17 Q Mr . Nardi , do you see an advance f or

18 $246, 965. 35?

19 A Would you repeat the number?

20 Q 264 - - I ' m sor r y. 246, 965. 35.

21 A I actually see several line items which

22 reflect that figure.

23 Q What are t hose? I shoul d say, what does t hat

24 number r epr esent?

25 A I don't know. I would have to do some


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1 additional research to find out.

2 Q Okay.

3 A It certainly wouldn't be a typical or

4 corporate advance. Normally, you wouldn't see an amount

5 like that. I mean, on very large loan balances -- which

6 this is larger than average, but this isn't $15 million

7 large. You might see some large advances for insurance

8 on a big mansion someplace or, you know, that -- that

9 might reach, you know, five or six figures if you're

10 paying for a year of insurance, or maybe you're paying

11 back taxes or something like that.

12 But on these type of -- on these kind of

13 transaction lists, generally you're not going to see an

14 advance of $250,000 on a 6- or $800,000 loan. It's

15 generally not there. But I don't have an explanation as

16 to what this particular amount is accounting for. But

17 it seems to be being applied and unapplied throughout --

18 you know, for several lines throughout this transaction

19 history.

20 Q Yes. So i f you wer e goi ng t o t r y and

21 det ermi ne what t hat amount was r epr esent i ng, where woul d

22 you go l ook?

23 A I wouldn't necessarily look -- well, I would

24 look in other transaction screens to see if I could sort

25 it out. Otherwise maybe, SER1 SHT to see if there are


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1 transactions. I would go find what the Tran Code 745

2 was because it seems to be regulated to these particular

3 transactions. You don't see 745 throughout the rest of

4 this document, so -- you see a lot of six -- six codes.

5 There's a couple of large 745 codes earlier on in the

6 document, which I would probably also be looking at.

7 But basically the first thing I would start

8 with is the transaction code list to tell me what it's

9 supposed to be as far as the code goes, and then try and

10 drill down from there.

11 Q Let me gi ve you - - j ust don' t put t hat t oo f ar

12 away because I ' m goi ng t o ask you some more quest i ons,

13 but I t hi nk t hi s mi ght hel p. I f you coul d j ust t ake a

14 l ook.

15 MS. MACK: That wi l l be Exhi bi t 16.


17 Q ( By Ms. Mack) Mr . Nar di , Exhi bi t 16.

18 A Yes.

19 Q Exhi bi t 16 i s t wo pages of a l ar ger gr oup of

20 SER1 scr een shot s. However , t hose t wo pages do have

21 t hat f i gur e, t hat $246, 000 and change f i gur e.

22 A Right.

23 Q And I was wonder i ng i f t hose scr een shot s f r om

24 t he SER1 vi ew, I guess, woul d t hat hel p you underst and

25 Exhi bi t 15?


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1 A Well, to a certain extent, it may clarify it a

2 little bit.

3 Q How does i t cl ar i f y i t ?4 A Well, it incorporates the descriptor of

5 corporate advance adjustment, but also goes on to tell

6 me it's not -- it's not what they consider a

7 nonrecoverable corporate advance. So apparently, these

8 are adjustments being made in the account of some type

9 of nonrecoverable advances, apparently.

10 Q Okay. Now, i f t hose advances wer e bei ng made

11 or wer e - - do you - - does - - do you t hi nk t hose advances

12 af f ect ed t hi s l oan bal ance?

13 A The loan balance itself?

14 Q Yeah.

15 A No, because the corporate advances as -- as

16 escrow and as restricted escrow and other transactions

17 that are related to the loan aren't reflected in the

18 balance. So as far as I understand it, there would be

19 no effect on the balance of the loan. You wouldn't --

20 you wouldn't -- there is an exception to that at some

21 point if -- like in a modification instance, if we had

22 advanced $30,000 for taxes and insurance and the

23 borrower couldn't repay us those escrow advances, we

24 might capitalize that into the loan -- the loan balance

25 under the terms of the modification.


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1 the transaction, and it has to be adjusted. And, again,

2 just a shot in the dark here, is that that could

3 represent the total sum of corporate advances, not a

4 single corporate advance. And I don't know the answer

5 to that question, which is why I can only speculate.

6 Q Okay.

7 A I wouldn't assume that was a single advance.

8 There would be no feasible explanation for a single

9 advance of a quarter million dollars.

10 Q On a l oan t hi s si ze, r i ght ?

11 A I'm sorry?

12 Q On a l oan t hi s si ze.

13 A On a loan this size, no.

14 Q A coupl e of more quest i ons on Exhi bi t 16 whi l e

15 we' r e on i t . You' l l not e t her e i s a dat e up her e, and

16 i t ' s 12/ 10/ 2009.

17 A Yes.

18 Q The 12/ 10/ 2009 i s - - post dat es t he al l eged

19 dat e of def aul t , cor r ect ?

20 A I believe so, yes.

21 Q Okay. Woul d Chase have t aken a pr i nci pal - -

22 sor r y - - a char ge- of f at t he end of 2009, and per haps

23 t hat ' s what t he amount of money t he $246, 000 i s f or?

24 MS. CREWS: Obj ect t o f or m.

25 Q ( By Ms. Mack) I n your exper i ence, have you


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1 ever seen that happen?

2 A I haven't seen it accounted for in a corporate

3 advance history. I think I -- and -- and, really, I

4 don't really pay much attention to charge-offs to begin

5 with. But, you know, compounding that, I don't know why

6 they would include it in the corporate advance

7 accounting. It wouldn't be the right place for it.

8 Q Al l r i ght . I f you woul d j ust - - i f you wi l l

9 not e, act ual l y, goi ng bet ween Exhi bi t s 15 and 16, i f you

10 wi l l l ook at Exhi bi t 15 at t he t op of t he page under

11 borr ower name, t here i s - - and next t o corporate advance

12 hi st or y scr een, t her e' s t hat X99 agai n.

13 A Yes.

14 Q Do you - - i n t he cont ext of Exhi bi t 15, do you

15 know why i t says X99?

16 A No.

17 Q Okay. Now, i f you go t o Exhi bi t 16 agai n, you

18 l ook up at t he top of t he page under cust omer - - or

19 r i ght next t o cust omer ser vi ce, t her e i s t hat I NV agai n.

20 Does t hat st and f or i nvest or on t hat scr een

21 shot ?

22 A I believe it does.

23 Q And t her e' s A01/ 013.

24 A Yes.

25 Q So t he A01 i s - - i t cor r esponds wi t h some of


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1 t he val uat i on r eport s we have pr evi ousl y marked as

2 exhi bi t s. But does the cont ext of Exhi bi t 16 hel p you

3 i dent i f y what A01 or 013 mean?4 A Not really, no.

5 Q Okay. The - - okay. I ' l l r est on t hat one.

6 Okay. We' l l go on t o t he next ones.

7 Wi t h r egard t o t he not e codes, do you know

8 what t he not e code LMHAM means?


10 A I don't have an example of the note codes

11 you're talking about. I don't -- can you define note

12 code or show me?

13 Q ( By Ms. Mack) I ' l l show you what I ' m l ooki ng

14 at .

15 A Okay.

16 Q Ar e you r eady?

17 A Do you want it marked?

18 Q Yes.

19 MS. MACK: We' l l mark t hat as 17.


21 Q ( By Ms. Mack) Okay. Wi t h r egard t o t he

22 document I ' ve j ust handed you, do you have a name f or

23 t hat document ? Have you seen anyt hi ng l i ke i t bef ore?

24 A Let me just read a few things here.

25 It looks like -- I don't think I've seen this


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1 particular form before. I've seen ones like it. If

2 I'm -- it looks like a modification checklist of some

3 sort, someone going through to do some type of quality

4 check on a loan for -- maybe to see if they can push it

5 into, you know, certain modifications to be reviewed.

6 Or maybe it's in the process of modification, and this

7 is the checklist they have to go through for

8 premodification.

9 Clearly, it's a checklist. I think it --

10 there's a lot of loss mitigation-related items in here,

11 so it appears to be that it even contemplates HASP trial

12 on the checklist.

13 Q Now, HASP t r i al , what i s t hat ?

14 A I don't know what HASP stands for.

15 Q That ' s not a Chase progr am?

16 A I don't know that it's not a Chase program.

17 I'm not -- I don't work loss mitigation. It's not my

18 field, and so I don't know what HASP stands for.

19 Q Okay.

20 A It wouldn't surprise me. There's a lot of

21 programs of all sorts.

22 Q Okay. I ' l l ask you some more quest i ons about

23 t hat i n a mi nut e. I f you coul d j ust l ook i n t he mi ddl e

24 of t he page, Mr . Nar di , t her e' s goi ng t o be the codes

25 I ' m goi ng t o ask you about , t he LMHAM and t he LMTMQA.


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1 A Okay.

2 Q I s t her e a code l i st f or t hi s l oss mi t

3 document t hat we have mar ked as Exhi bi t 17?4 A I don't know. I've never seen the document

5 before.

6 Q Do you r ecogni ze t he codes, t he LM - -

7 A These are actually codes that go into MSP.

8 They don't -- they are not really tied to the document

9 so much.

10 Q Okay.

11 A When you go into the NOTS screen, which is

12 basically your general loan notes of all types --

13 customer service, loss mitigation, collections all go

14 into the NOTS screen -- you can type in these codes in a

15 field in that screen, and it will -- and depending on

16 what the code is designed to do, the code might generate

17 a preformatted text box for you. So you type in this

18 code, and it will basically put in something that says,

19 Borrower has completed Step 5 of 6, or whatever you want

20 it to do.

21 So basically it's a shortcut. Type in these

22 five digits, and it produces a note so you don't have to

23 type it in longhand. So a shortcut. You can do it that

24 way.

25 Q Okay.


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1 A So they are basically looking for codes which

2 show that whatever these codes stand for, the steps have

3 been completed. I don't know what the codes really

4 mean.

5 Q Okay. Let me see t hat one mor e t i me.

6 A One looks like -- one looks like a loss

7 mitigation quality analysis. The other one, I don't

8 know. One looks like a loss mitigation quality

9 analysis.

10 Q There i s one other quest i on I want ed t o ask

11 you about t hi s. Yes. Okay. I f you l ook under the

12 HASP - - act ual l y, t wo l i nes up f r om t he l i ne you wer e

13 j ust l ooki ng at . I t l ooks l i ke i t says MAS1/ I NV.

14 Ar e t hose t he names of t he scr eens t hat you

15 wer e t el l i ng me about t hat i dent i f y t he i nvest or s?

16 A Yes.

17 Q Okay. And t he "ver i f y t he i nvest or " t hat i s

18 i ndi cat ed next t o t hose scr een codes, t her e' s a l i st t o

19 determi ne t he numbers t hat t he - - I mean, who the

20 i nvest ors ar e wi t h r egard t o each number.

21 I s t hat - -


23 Q ( By Ms. Mack) - - what t hese f ol ks woul d be

24 l ooki ng at ?

25 A Can you repeat the question?


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1 Q Okay. You see how - - I bel i eve you t ol d me

2 MAS1 - -

3 A Right. MAS1 and INV1.

4 Q Those ar e i nvest or di scl osur e scr eens?

5 A That's information within MSP that will show

6 you who the investor is.

7 Q And f r om another answer you gave me, t here i s

8 an i nvest or code l i st .

9 A Correct.

10 Q Okay. So woul d someone t hat i s goi ng t o t r y

11 and f i l l t hat document t hat you have i n your hands out

12 t hat i s mar ked as Exhi bi t 17 t o compl et e i t , woul d t hey

13 go t o a par t i cul ar l i st or i s t her e j ust one l i st?


15 Q ( By Ms. Mack) Let me ask i t t hi s way: You

16 t al ked about your - - you woul d l ook at an i nvest or l i st .

17 Okay? You sai d you are not i n t he depar t ment or you

18 don' t do l oss mi t , and t hat t hi s document you have i n

19 your hands, Exhi bi t 17, i s a l oss mi t document .

20 A Correct.

21 Q So woul d t he l oss mi t i gat i on f ol ks be l ooki ng

22 at a di f f er ent i nvest or l i st t han you woul d?

23 A No.

24 Q I j ust needed t o know i f I needed t o ask f or

25 mor e t han one. Okay. Thank you.


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1 Al l r i ght . Goi ng back t o - - I t hi nk we ar e

2 done wi t h t hat one, Mr . Nar di . I ' l l t ake you back t o

3 Number 15.4 Okay. There are a coupl e of payees here t hat

5 I want ed t o ask you about . I f you l ook at t he dat e

6 9/ 23/ 2010, t her e' s t wo ent r i es f or $12, 800 - -

7 A Yes.

8 Q - - i n advances.

9 Can you t el l me by l ooki ng at t hat document

10 who t he r eci pi ent of t he advance was?

11 A No.

12 Q Do you know what 10N14 means?

13 A Where are you seeing that?

14 Q I t shoul d be t o t he r i ght of t he amount .

15 A Oh, I'm sorry. No, that's a payee code, but I

16 don't know what it means.

17 Q Okay. And t he CANV? Do you know what t hat

18 means?

19 A It's a reason code I don't know.

20 Q Okay. 12- month anni ver sar y? Do you know what

21 t hat means?

22 A No.

23 Q I f you keep goi ng t o March 29, 2010 - - and

24 we' ve act ual l y put some yel l ow st i cki es on t he numbers

25 we want ed t o ask you about or near t hem.


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1 I t ' s an ent r y f or $135, 000 t i mes t wo, and t he

2 date i s March 29, 2010.

3 A Well, I want to actually go back a moment

4 because I think you might be misunderstanding. There's

5 two transactions for $12,800.

6 Q Okay.

7 A But one is coming in and one is going out, so

8 they net 0.

9 Q Okay.

10 A The same thing applies to 135,000. It's not

11 two of the same transaction. One is coming in and one

12 is going out.

13 Q And what about t he 9/ 24/ 2010, 246, 000?

14 A So we're talking about these at the back?

15 Q Yeah.

16 A All right. So we have -- one is a negative,

17 and one is a positive. Another positive and another

18 negative, so we're still netted 0. There's two more

19 that one is positive and one is negative, still netted

20 0. They are all netted 0.

21 Q Okay. Al l r i ght . And you - - you don' t know

22 what t hat means as we ar e si t t i ng here t oday, what t hose

23 ent r i es - -

24 A No. And I --

25 Q - - net t i ng 0?


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1 A -- wish I could tell you.

2 Q Okay.

3 A I don't have any idea.

4 Q Okay. Thank you. We can move on.

5 Al l r i ght . Based on your t r ai ni ng and

6 exper i ence, does t he mor t gage i n t hi s case secur e the

7 pr oper t y or t he pr omi ssor y not e?

8 A Does the mortgage secure the property or the

9 promissory note?


11 A Well, let me just define what -- I'll make it

12 easy because I don't -- I don't know if I answered your

13 question, so I'll try to answer it the way I think

14 you're asking it.

15 Q ( By Ms. Mack) Okay.

16 A You have a note. It's a contract to -- we'll

17 lend you money, and you pay us back. This is the rate.

18 This is how much you have to pay each month and so

19 forth. The mortgage is the document which secures the

20 note. It gives us the ability to basically confiscate

21 your collateral which you pledged in the mortgage if you

22 do not perform under the terms of the note. So I think

23 that's what you are asking me, but I want to make sure I

24 answer the question.

25 Q Okay.


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1 A The note -- I think your original question was

2 does the mortgage secure the property. But the

3 question, to me, doesn't make any sense at all --

4 Q Okay.

5 A -- so that's why I answered the way I did.

6 Q Thank you.

7 Can - - i s t her e - - excuse me. I s t her e a

8 pr ovi si on or a pr ocedur e i n your company f or t he

9 bor r ower ' s agent s, whet her t hey ar e an expert or t hei r

10 l awyer s, t o go i nspect t he col l at er al f i l e t hat i s

11 st or ed i n - - I t hi nk you sai d Loui si ana?


13 A Would you repeat? I think I heard the

14 question.

15 Q ( By Ms. Mack) Yeah. I ' m aski ng i f t her e i s a

16 pr ocedur e f or t he bor r ower ' s r epr esent at i ve, whet her

17 i t ' s an exper t or a l awyer , t o go and i nspect t he

18 col l at er al f i l e t hat you know of .

19 A In Louisiana or just --

20 Q Wher ever i t i s.

21 A -- wherever it is?

22 Q Yeah.

23 A Is there a provision? Well, I don't think

24 there is a provision in the contract with -- that you

25 signed into in your note or mortgages. I don't think


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1 there is any verbiage in any note or mortgage that gives

2 you the right to inspect your documents in the normal

3 course of business.

4 Now, under a performing loan, there is really

5 no need to for the most part. I think that any lender

6 wouldn't necessarily object to it so as far as it's

7 planned for in advance and that you just don't show up

8 in custody services and say, I want to see my note. As

9 long as you did it appropriately, I don't see why there

10 would be any objection to it.

11 However, I haven't seen any provision or

12 policies surrounding that. We'll -- like, I'll just

13 give you an example. I called my lender the other day

14 and said, I need a copy of my title insurance policy.

15 They faxed it to me within an hour. Generally that

16 information is available almost immediately.

17 Now, your question was specifically as to the

18 original.

19 Q Ri ght .

20 A That takes some planning, because they are not

21 going to send it anywhere than if we're represented.

22 They are not going to release that just to anybody

23 because it's the note. It's the mortgage. So -- but I

24 haven't seen any provisions for that.

25 Q Okay.


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1 A But I imagine it would probably be something

2 that just needs to be planned ahead of time.

3 Q Okay. Thank you.4 Now, wi t h r egard t o t he MSP and account i ng, do

5 you know i f MSP has an i nt er f ace wi t h the general

6 l edgers t hat Chase woul d have f or t he Wai some l oan?

7 A I don't. I don't know.

8 Q Okay. And - - I can' t even r ead my wr i t i ng.

9 Sorry.

10 How - - can you - - can you t el l f r om - - i s

11 t her e any pr ovi si on i n MSP f or ver i f yi ng whet her a - -

12 whet her t he or i gi nal not e has been ei t her pl edged as

13 col l at er al or sol d or ot her wi se hypot hecat ed?


15 A I -- I don't believe that there is as far as

16 being sold. There are certain fields in MSP which will

17 show you acquisition information if we purchased the

18 loan from a previous lender or note holder. But as far

19 as the selling or securitization, so for servicing for

20 a -- one of the secured backed trusts, that's not the

21 place you would go to view that information, no.

22 Q ( By Ms. Mack) Okay. Can you - - can you t el l

23 us how you woul d ver i f y i f t he owner of t he note had

24 r et ai ned possessi on of t he not e and owner shi p of t he

25 not e or i f t hey had pl edged i t ? I s t her e anythi ng you


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1 woul d l ook at ? So, f or exampl e, i f someone came - - t hi s

2 i s a hypot het i cal . I f someone came up t o Mr . Wai some

3 and sai d - - or sent hi m an accel er at i on l et t er , we own4 your not e and we ar e goi ng t o accel er at e i t , and he

5 cal l ed Chase up and sai d, I t hought y' al l owned my note,

6 what woul d you l ook at t o see i f , i n f act , maybe Chase

7 had sol d the note or perhaps maybe the note was si t t i ng

8 i n somebody' s f r ont seat and i t was st ol en?


10 A First of all, I would like to say this whole

11 pledging concept that you have discussed, I have no

12 knowledge of. I don't know -- I've never had any loan

13 that I've dealt with with Chase or WAMU where somehow it

14 was pledged and then -- so I have no definition of what

15 that means.


17 A But let's just say that -- let's go with

18 something I do know. If we had sold it, there would be

19 a number of things that would -- that would tip me off.

20 First of all, why would it be in our system

21 anywhere? Why would we be managing the service of the

22 loan if we transferred servicing rights to somebody

23 else? So right off the bat, the question really doesn't

24 have any foundation in reality, because we wouldn't

25 continue to do work on a loan we no longer had any


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1 financial interest in doing it on.

2 We don't service things for free. We charge

3 other entities service -- you know, fees to service.

4 You know, we service our own loans because those loans

5 we collect the interest on, that interest belongs to the

6 bank. So it's not a charity; it's a business. So if

7 we're doing -- there would be no instance where we would

8 be accidentally servicing someone's loan where it was

9 sold to someone else.

10 So the answer is, you know, the hypothetical

11 fails because we are not going to have a loan in our

12 system if we sold it off.

13 Q Okay. Al l r i ght .

14 Do you know who act ual l y mai ntai ns t he

15 i nt egr i t y of t he dat a i n t he MSP system wi t h r egar d t o

16 Chase?


18 Q ( By Ms. Mack) Speci f i cal l y - - and when I say

19 "data i nt egr i t y, " do you know what I mean?

20 A Yes.

21 Q Okay.

22 A Well, I think data integrity is really on an

23 ongoing process. There is no -- there's no master

24 person who is doing it 24/7 seven -- you know, 24 hours,

25 seven days a week. Data integrity is a -- is a ongoing


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1 process that involves all the people who are putting

2 information into MSP. And we're constantly using that

3 information. It is the system of record. It's what we

4 depend on. So if there is an error and it's discovered,

5 it's remediate and it's corrected.

6 Pretty much anything that goes into MSP that

7 is an error is going to be discovered immediately right

8 away because someone else is going to have to access

9 that same information and use it to really go about

10 their business. But I don't think -- I don't know of a

11 specific individual who is the master of record keeper

12 and, you know, determiner of all things accurate in MSP.

13 It's -- accuracy is based upon, you know, the actual

14 records, what is -- what is -- what is true of the loan.

15 I mean, individual errors are -- are catchable.

16 They're -- they're redeemable. You can go back and

17 correct things. It's just a --

18 Q So who woul d go - -

19 A -- it's not one person.

20 Q I ' m sor r y.

21 A Sure.

22 Q Who woul d go back and cor r ect t hem i f you di d

23 f i nd an er r or? Woul d t hat be somebody l i ke you or

24 somebody i n t he qual i t y cont r ol depar t ment , i f t her e i s

25 such a t hi ng?


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1 A It depends on the error. If you are talking

2 an error in some type of -- like for me, if I am going

3 through a file that I know should be legal coded so that

4 customers are not receiving collection calls, I will

5 just correct the coding and fix it. That doesn't

6 require a committee or a meeting or anything like that.

7 Now, if you're talking about other types of

8 errors which would be significant changes to the loan

9 records -- which, coincidentally, I've never actually

10 run into myself, but I imagine significant loan records,

11 we would have to go back with folks that basically

12 administer the system and get those corrected and make

13 sure that everything that needs to be covered, depending

14 on the scope of the error. Because if it's something

15 that was, you know, a long time ago and would impact a

16 lot of things going forward, whatever the scope is, will

17 determine who we bring in on corrections.

18 Q Fai r enough. Thank you.

19 Do t hi r d par t i es, ot her t han Chase

20 empl oyees - - or bef or e Chase, WAMU - - do thi r d par t i es

21 ent er i nf ormat i on i nt o MSP ot her - - and what I mean

22 t hi r d par t i es, I mean anybody f r om l oss mi t i gat i on l i ke

23 br oker person t o LPS peopl e - -


25 Q ( By Ms. Mack) - - t o your at t or neys.


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1 A Attorneys certainly do not. Third parties do

2 not. I think the exception to -- it depends on how you

3 define third party. As I mentioned, the software is

4 licensed through the owner of the software. So I

5 imagine at some level or another, the owner of the

6 software, along with our knowledge, is going to be able

7 to make changes to the system. Maybe not loan level

8 individual changes like removing late fees or something

9 as small as that, but at some level, they can make

10 changes to the platform. That's what their job is.

11 Their job is to maintain that system and make sure it's

12 continually working.

13 Q Okay. And does t he syst em i t sel f per f or m

14 cal cul at i ons such as t he ones we have seen i n t he l oan

15 hi st ory document s t hat we have gone over t o date? Or i s

16 t hat done manual l y and i s i t ever ver i f i ed by an

17 i ndi vi dual as opposed t o a comput er?

18 And t hat was a compound quest i on. Sor r y.


20 A I think I get the question.

21 Q ( By Ms. Mack) Yeah.

22 A And a lot of the transactions -- or a lot of

23 the calculations that we work off of, like a payoff

24 demand, that's systematic because the system is going to

25 have the balance, the escrow advances, the amount of the


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1 interest that is running and all of that and be able to

2 produce that and save a lot of man-hours than trying to

3 do that manually, because the system is going to be more

4 accurate 99 times out of 100 -- probably more -- you

5 know, than a human trying to manually go through and do

6 amortization over a long period of time and other

7 calculations.

8 Q Now, t he af f i davi t of i ndebt edness, i n your - -

9 i n t hi s case, you execut ed an af f i davi t i n suppor t of

10 pl ai nt i f f ' s mot i on f or summar y j udgment .

11 Do you r ecal l doi ng t hat ?

12 A Yes.

13 MS. MACK: And we wi l l mar k t hat as 18.


15 Q ( By Ms. Mack) Mr . Nar di , coul d you t el l me

16 exact l y what st eps you went t hr ough t o execut e and

17 pr epar e t hat af f i davi t f r om begi nni ng t o end?

18 A From beginning to end?

19 Q Yes, si r .

20 A The -- well, let me first of all read through

21 it --

22 Q Oh, yeah. Absol ut el y.

23 A -- and make sure I have an understanding of

24 everything that was in this affidavit. This was like a

25 couple of months ago or something.


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1 Q Yeah. No probl em.

2 MS. CREWS: Do you want t o see t he exhi bi t s?

3 THE WI TNESS: Yeah.4 A Well, all of this is based --

5 Q ( By Ms. Mack) We coul d - - I ' m sor r y. I di d

6 not mean t o i nt err upt you.

7 MS. MACK: We coul d - - i f you want t o use your

8 copy, Rachel , we can.

9 MS. CREWS: To mar k i t ?

10 MS. MACK: For t he exhi bi t .

11 MS. CREWS: That ' s got exhi bi t s wi t h i t .

12 MS. MACK: I wasn' t t r yi ng t o t r i ck you.

13 THE WI TNESS: I can go on ei t her way.

14 Q ( By Ms. Mack) We' l l use t he compl ete one as

15 l ong as Rachel doesn' t mi nd us usi ng your copy.

16 A The individual section -- I mean, the first

17 one, as far as preparing -- I'm authorized by Chase to

18 sign any document basically, so I didn't really have to

19 do anything to prepare for Section 1 which is, you know,

20 authorizing myself. I was preauthorized to sign

21 documents.

22 Q Coul d I ask you a quest i on about t hat?

23 A Sure.

24 Q Do you have an aut hor i zat i on f r om ei t her t he

25 boar d of di r ect or s or whoever aut hor i zes si gnat or i es t o


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1 per f orm?

2 A Not with me, but, yes, I do.

3 Q You do have one?4 A Yes.

5 Q I s t hat aut hor i zat i on somet hi ng t hat i s a

6 onet i me aut hor i zat i on or i s i t pr eaut hor i zed ever y year ?

7 A Basically, right. It's basically held in a

8 centralized repository. They keep a list of authorized

9 signers for the bank. My authorization is reviewed and

10 reupped every year that I am in a position that I need

11 it.

12 Q Okay. Thank you.

13 A Okay. So, really, Number 1 speaks for itself.

14 Number 2, I'm over 18 and competent. I have

15 access to the mortgage records. I reviewed

16 Mr. Waisome's mortgage records, and specifically the

17 hello letter, which I think is one of the exhibits in

18 here. I'm not sure. I think it's one of the early

19 ones. Checks that Mr. Waisome sent in after the date of

20 the hello letter. Basically MSP in general. Making

21 sure that the loan is on the system and that it's

22 consistent with what is in the affidavit that I'm

23 attesting to.

24 Bear with me a second.

25 I have personal knowledge that the


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1 transactions in MSP are made at or about the time of the

2 transaction. I know that because I work in MSP every

3 day, and I've worked in MSP every day since I have

4 worked for Chase, and the business records are made at

5 or around the time they happen.

6 So Paragraph 4 talks about the letter in

7 question, the hello letter. I made sure that that

8 letter was actually in the system. It is. We provided

9 it. I verified that he made payments after that, both

10 through MSP and through verifying cancelled checks that

11 we received post that October 10th date. I also

12 verified in loss mitigation documentation that he was

13 offered a (inaudible).

14 THE REPORTER: I ' m sorr y. I di dn' t hear you.

15 THE WI TNESS: I ' m sor r y.

16 A I also verified in loss mitigation documents

17 that the borrower was provided a trial modification plan

18 but did not choose to participate in the plan.

19 Q ( By Ms. Mack) Okay. And t hat ' s t he end of

20 t he af f i davi t , r i ght ?

21 A That's the end of the affidavit, yes.

22 Q Okay. Let me ask you a coupl e of quest i ons.

23 A Sure.

24 Q When you pr epar ed t he af f i davi t , speci f i cal l y

25 Par agr aph 3, di d you r evi ew Washi ngt on Mut ual ' s books


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1 and r ecor ds t o see i f t he Wai some not e was on t he books

2 of t he bank when t he FDI C t ook i t i nt o recei ver shi p?

3 MS. CREWS: Obj ect t o f or m.4 A I reviewed the systems of record that would

5 have reflected that, yes.

6 Q ( By Ms. Mack) Okay. And i s t hat al l you

7 r evi ewed, as f ar as t hat quest i on, t o det er mi ne i f t he

8 Wai some l oan was on t he books of Washi ngt on Mutual at

9 t he t i me t he FDI C t ook the bank i nt o r ecei ver shi p?


11 A Well, I really hear two questions. And one is

12 really the collateral, whether the note was in the

13 possession, or whether the loan was being serviced by

14 WAMU at the time.

15 And the answer is -- either way, is both.

16 Like I described earlier, WAMU was conveniently using

17 MSP, and Chase was conveniently using MSP. So when the

18 transaction -- when the transaction took place -- and I

19 was working for WAMU at the time. So I can tell you

20 that the loans that were in place at WAMU on September

21 25th of 2008 were the same loans that were in Chase's

22 possession on September 26th and going forward. I can

23 tell you that from firsthand knowledge.

24 Now, I, of course, didn't access Mr. Waisome's

25 loan in 2008. I wouldn't have a reason to. But the


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1 business records were the business records that were

2 transferred from WAMU to Chase.

3 Q ( By Ms. Mack) And so I t hi nk you answered t he4 quest i on, whi ch was you revi ewed t he MSP syst emt o

5 det er mi ne i f t he l oan was, one, bei ng servi ced by Chase

6 or WAMU - - excuse me - - and two, i f WAMU owned t he

7 pr omi ssory note?

8 A Correct.

9 Q Okay. So besi des MSP, t o answer - - t o

10 det er mi ne t hose two t hi ngs, di d you l ook at anythi ng

11 el se?

12 A As to whether or not it was owned and whether

13 or not it was -- well, I looked at other screens within

14 MSP as well which would have shown that Chase was the

15 owner. So MAS1 and INV1 would have shown that Chase was

16 the owner. The ownership would have passed from WAMU to

17 Chase through the FDIC in the purchase of their assets

18 by Chase.

19 So there was nothing in my review that would

20 have shown me that everything other than WAMU owned the

21 loan and through the purchase of the WAMU assets, Chase

22 now owns the loan.

23 Q Okay. Wel l , t hr ough t he exhi bi t s we have been

24 t hr ough t oday, we' ve seen sever al i nvest or numbers. And

25 I t hi nk t hat t he i nvest or number , as you' ve t est i f i ed,


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1 i s goi ng t o i dent i f y t he i nvest or once you have t hat

2 l i st .

3 A Correct.


5 A Well, I think it will identify who the code --

6 who that code is designed to identify.

7 Q ( By Ms. Mack) Okay. Ri ght .

8 A Yes.

9 Q So i f you saw al l - - i n r evi ewi ng t he

10 document s i n MSP t o t he document s - - sor r y.

11 When you r evi ewed MSP t o execute t hi s

12 af f i davi t , di d you r esear ch what t he di f f er ent i nvest or

13 codes meant t o see i f , i n f act , Washi ngt on Mut ual di d

14 own t he pr omi ssor y not e at t he t i me i t was sei zed, i f

15 Washi ngt on Mut ual was j ust servi ci ng i t ?


17 A I did not look at the code specifically, no.


19 A I had sufficient business records and evidence

20 that I didn't even -- at the time of my review, there

21 was no reason to look at the investor codes specifically

22 or depend on them specifically. There was plenty of

23 other indications that WAMU was owner servicer and then

24 Chase became owner servicer.

25 Q Okay. Now, t he r ecords t hat you woul d have


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1 r evi ewed t o det er mi ne t hat , ar e t hey al l at t ached t o

2 your af f i davi t - -

3 MS. CREWS: Obj ect t o f or m.4 Q ( By Ms. Mack) - - t o r evi ew t he ownershi p of

5 t he note at t he t i me of t he sei zure by t he FDI C of WAMU

6 and t he owner shi p af t er t he sei zur e?

7 A The system of -- I mean, MSP, the system of

8 record, would -- there's a screen you can print off that

9 shows the current owner, but it doesn't -- there is no

10 look-back function on it. So that would probably be the

11 only other thing I can think of that I would have

12 reviewed. But it's not going to have a look-back

13 feature, so I can't look back to 2007 and see any

14 information. It's who is the current owner.

15 Q Okay. So i f you don' t have t he abi l i t y t o do

16 t hat l ook- back f unct i on i n MSP, what woul d you have t o

17 l ook at i n or der t o det er mi ne i f t he i nvest or r emai ned

18 t he same bef ore the FDI C sei zed t he bank and af t er t he

19 FDI C sei zed t he bank?

20 A You could look at archived records from WAMU,

21 and you have examples in here, screen prints from 2007

22 and 2008 prior to the seizure.

23 Q Okay.

24 A So those are the types of things you could

25 look at. Those were not things that I specifically


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1 looked at, but you could pull all of the records -- all

2 available screen shots from that timeframe, and that

3 information may be available there.

4 Q You' r e awar e f r om your pr i or t est i mony t hat

5 t he i ssue of who owns t hi s l oan f r om my cl i ent ' s

6 per spect i ve i s a l ar ge one, ar e you not ?

7 A As to who owns the loan from your client's

8 perspective? I guess I understand the -- I understand

9 the concern, but I -- my belief is that it's unfounded

10 because if there was any question as to who owned the

11 loan, we wouldn't have continued to receive payments

12 after the purchase of WAMU assets by Chase.

13 Q Let me ask you. Now, you' ve i ndi cat ed t hat

14 t he payment s made - - t her e ar e three payment s at t ached

15 t o your af f i davi t , and t hey f ol l owed t he hel l o l et t er , I

16 t hi nk you cal l ed i t . But doesn' t t he hel l o l et t er j ust

17 i ndi cat e to Mr . Wai some t hat t he ser vi ci ng of hi s l oan

18 was t r ansf err ed t o Chase?

19 A I believe it does contemplate servicer.

20 Q So woul dn' t t hat be consi st ent wi t h t he

21 di scussi on we had ear l i er about t he bor r ower ' s abi l i t y

22 t o f i nd out t he owner and why i t woul d mat t er or why i t

23 woul dn' t mat t er ? I t hi nk you sai d t hat t hey don' t

24 r eal l y need t o know who the owner of t he pr omi ssory note

25 i s because i t ' s onl y the ser vi cer t hat mat t er s because


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1 t hey are the ones accept i ng t he payment s and deal i ng

2 wi t h t he bor r ower ; i s t hat cor r ect ?

3 MS. CREWS: Obj ect t o f or m.4 A Are you asking me if that was my testimony or

5 are you asking me another question?

6 Q ( By Ms. Mack) Wel l , I mean, i sn' t t hat t r ue?

7 I sn' t i t t r ue that you woul d not expect Mr . Wai some back

8 i n 2008 t o pi ck up t he hel l o l et t er and say, I don' t

9 bel i eve t hat J PMor gan Chase owns t hi s l oan, and I ' m

10 goi ng t o f i nd out who does own t he pr omi ssory note?

11 So why - - I guess what t he quest i on i s, i s:

12 What i s t he si gni f i cance of Mr . Wai some maki ng t hr ee

13 payment s af t er he r ecei ves a hel l o l et t er t el l i ng hi m

14 t hat hi s ser vi ci ng i s t r ansf er r ed f r om WAMU t o J PMor gan

15 Chase? What does i t show?

16 A Well, I think -- well, I think the issue at

17 hand is if there was a concern about the ownership of

18 the note -- and I think you even said that is a major

19 concern of Mr. Waisome's. At what point did it become a

20 concern? And was that the reason he stopped making his

21 payments? And I would have to say that was not the

22 reason. He put in documentation that said there were

23 other reasons he is not making his payments, and it

24 didn't apparently become a concern until later on when

25 faced with the loss of the home, then suddenly it's an


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1 issue. But that was months after the purchase of WAMU

2 assets by Chase.

3 So, again, I guess there's no specific

4 timeframe in which I -- I would ever expect any borrower

5 to go, You know what? I don't think I'm making payments

6 to the right people, or I want to know who my lender is

7 or who owns my note.

8 From a personal perspective, I don't know who

9 owns my mortgage. And it doesn't really matter because

10 in the end, I have to make the payments no matter what.

11 And who gets the beneficial -- who gets the benefits

12 from that in the end doesn't matter. What I know is I

13 have to make my payments. These payments are due. If I

14 don't make the payments, I forfeit the house. It's in

15 the contract, and I've pledged my signature to it. Who

16 the lender is in the end doesn't matter.

17 I happen to know that Wells Fargo owns my

18 loan, but it -- it doesn't jibe with the information

19 that Mr. Waisome provided to us. He didn't say, I'm not

20 making my payments anymore because you guys won't tell

21 me who my lender is. That's not what he said. He said,

22 I am not making payments anymore because I can't afford

23 to make my payments. The question of who owns my note

24 didn't come until further on down the line when it was a

25 little more convenient for Mr. Waisome to make the


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1 question.

2 Q Wel l , wi t hout dr awi ng concl usi ons as t o

3 whet her i t was conveni ent f or Mr . Wai some, r eal l y, we4 ar e not her e t o do t hat r i ght now. We' r e t r yi ng t o

5 f i gur e out t he t i me l i ne.

6 A Okay.

7 Q And one of t he t hi ngs t hat i s puzzl i ng i s t hat

8 i f Chase owned t he l oan and t he pr omi ssory note was i n

9 i t s possessi on because Washi ngt on Mut ual owned t he l oan

10 and not e bef or e i t was sei zed, t hen how come the i ni t i al

11 compl ai nt was f i l ed wi t h a l ost not e count ?

12 A You know, that's --


14 THE WI TNESS: Sorr y.

15 A That's a good question. And it was an

16 unfortunate practice of certain firms we were working

17 with in that timeframe to file lost note affidavits on

18 all foreclosure accounts.

19 MS. CREWS: Not af f i davi t s.

20 A I'm sorry. Not lost note -- lost note

21 claim -- what's the word I'm looking for? Lost note

22 counts --

23 MS. CREWS: Count .

24 A -- on a majority of their filings. That has

25 since been remedied and is no longer a practice that we


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1 accept. But at the time, it was something that was

2 going on. Regrettably so.

3 They were later on supposed to have been

4 dropping the count and basically remedying the issue,

5 but some of them were and some of them were not. I'm

6 not sure -- that's the best explanation I have is they

7 were really just filing it without any knowledge of the

8 actual condition of the note.

9 Q ( By Ms. Mack) Okay. Do you know why t he - -

10 ar e you - - f i r st of al l , ar e you awar e of di scover y t hat

11 was pr oduced i n t he ear l y par t of t hi s case - - I want t o

12 say i t was t he f al l of 2009 - - where Mr . Wai some had

13 asked f or a copy of hi s not e, and one was pr ovi ded, but

14 i t was unendorsed? Do you have any knowl edge of t hat ?

15 A I have knowledge of -- well, I've got a couple

16 of answers to the question. I have knowledge he asked

17 for documentation throughout the course of the loan, and

18 maybe even more than one time. As to whether or not he

19 received an endorsed copy or unendorsed copy, I don't

20 know.

21 Q Wi t h r egard t o t he r equest he made f or

22 document s r egar di ng hi s l oan t hr oughout t he l i f e of t he

23 l oan, ar e t hose t he types of r equest s you woul d get f r om

24 somebody who was quest i oni ng whet her or not t hey wer e

25 maki ng payment s t o t he r i ght ent i t y?


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1 A My experience tells me that people -- and,

2 again, I have been working in default mortgages for

3 going on seven years or something like that. And a lot

4 of that has been time spent in litigation and

5 specifically contested foreclosure. So my answer is

6 going to be based upon my experience. And that is,

7 borrowers tend to get very interested in their loan at

8 the point where they have stopped making their payments

9 and would like to delay the process as much as possible.

10 So they tend to file -- if they are not able to be

11 represented, they tend to file large, nonsensical

12 objections and pleadings and all kinds of stuff to kind

13 of slow down the process. And that's my experience from

14 dealing with these contested foreclosures; that they are

15 not really interested in the facts. They are interested

16 in basically burying us in paperwork and delaying the

17 process as much as possible.

18 Q Okay.

19 A Regardless of what we send them, nothing is

20 ever good enough, it didn't show up, or endless reasons

21 and excuses. And that's my experience.

22 Q Okay. Thank you.

23 Wi t h r egar d t o your af f i davi t , Mr . Nar di , di d

24 you execut e that i n Texas?

25 A I did.


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1 Q And do you l i ve i n Texas now?

2 A I do not. I was traveling in Texas on

3 business.

4 Q Okay. I s t her e a Chase of f i ce i n Texas?

5 A Absolutely.

6 Q I ' m sur e t her e' s a l ot of t hem, but i s - - i s

7 i t l i ke one of t hose vaul t s or campuses l i ke you have i n

8 J acksonvi l l e?

9 A It's actually a pretty large -- it's two

10 buildings, two really large buildings. We have

11 different operations out of -- this is in Lewisville

12 specifically. We have a big REO department there. We

13 have part of our Chase legal department, which is where

14 I was visiting, there. So I was visiting the Chase

15 legal department there.

16 Q Okay. I n your exper i ence wi t h Washi ngt on

17 Mut ual or Chase, have you ever handl ed l oans t hat were

18 ser vi ced i n - - sor r y - - ser vi ced f or t he f eder al home

19 l oan banks, any of t hem?


21 Q ( By Ms. Mack) Do you know what t he f eder al

22 home l oan banks ar e?

23 A Are you referring to Freddie and Fannie or

24 somebody else?

25 Q No. Do you know what a f ederal home l oan bank


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1 Q ( By Ms. Mack) Mr . Nar di , Exhi bi t 19. Have

2 you ever seen a copy or maybe t he or i gi nal of Exhi bi t

3 19?4 A I've seen copies before.

5 Q Wi t h r egar d t o Exhi bi t 19, have you act ual l y

6 been abl e to r ead i t at any poi nt si nce i t was execut ed

7 i n 2008?

8 A I've seen it on several occasions. I can't

9 say that I -- you know, this isn't, you know, my Sunday

10 morning read or anything. I read when I need to. I

11 read the portions applicable to the cases that I work

12 on, but I -- there's just too much information in this

13 and other documents that I must rely on. That's why,

14 you know, they say the document speaks for itself.

15 Q Okay.

16 A I don't have to speak for it or tell you

17 what's in it.

18 Q Al l r i ght . I under st and t hat . Okay. I ' m

19 goi ng t o ask you some quest i ons about i t .

20 A Sure.

21 Q I j ust di dn' t know i f you need t i me t o r ead i t

22 f i r st .

23 A I'll read as we go.

24 Q Page 2. I f you wi l l t ur n t o Page 2, pl ease.

25 Page 2, i f you coul d l ook at t he def i ni t i on of


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1 account i ng r ecor ds.

2 A Yes.

3 Q Coul d you t el l me where t hose account i ng4 r ecor ds woul d be kept ?

5 A I could not.

6 Q Who coul d?

7 A I don't know.

8 Q Okay. I n t hi s case, do you r ecal l answer i ng

9 i nt er r ogat or i es?

10 A I do.

11 Q Okay. Do you r ecal l - - do you r ecal l i n

12 answer i ng t hose i nt er r ogat or i es, what you di d t o t r y and

13 f i nd t he i nf or mat i on t hat I asked f or ?

14 MS. CREWS: Obj ect t o f orm. You di dn' t ask

15 anyt hi ng about - - I t hi nk you may be t al ki ng about

16 r equest s f or pr oduct i ons, whi ch ar e not ver i f i ed.

17 MS. MACK: Hang on a second. You coul d be

18 r i ght , Rachel .

19 MS. CREWS: Okay.

20 MS. MACK: I ' m mi ssi ng par t of my f i l e.

21 Let ' s go of f .

22 ( Di scussi on of f t he r ecor d. )

23 Q ( By Ms. Mack) The account i ng r ecor ds t hat are

24 def i ned i n Ar t i cl e 1 on Page 2 of Exhi bi t 19 - -

25 A Yes.


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1 Q - - you do not know wher e t hose exi st or who

2 woul d know why t hey exi st ; i s t hat cor r ect ?

3 A I don't -- well, these accounting records that

4 were -- well, this is just a definition, so this doesn't

5 say whose accounting records or anything. It just calls

6 for accounting records. So are we assuming these are

7 defined as WAMU's accounting records or the records that

8 were turned on over to Chase by WAMU?

9 Q Wel l , t he account i ng r ecor ds, I t hi nk, ar e

10 def i ned. So, yeah, WAMU' s account i ng r ecor ds.

11 A Okay. So my answer would still be I don't

12 know where they are housed and -- and let me go back.

13 As I described previously, WAMU was using the

14 same mortgage servicing package as Chase. So as far as

15 those records are concerned, they are what they are.

16 They are electronically kept, and they were transferred

17 to Chase intact.

18 If there are other accounting records outside

19 of that, I -- they're not accounting records I would

20 have any reason to access in my duties at Chase. If

21 they exist, I imagine they are probably held at some

22 management level well above me. I am not sure exactly

23 who those folks would be. And, again, that's just

24 assuming they exist outside of the servicing platform.

25 So that's my best answer.


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1 MS. CREWS: And I don' t know i f t hi s wi l l hel p

2 goi ng f or war d, but Mr . Nar di - - you know, the scope

3 of hi s deposi t i on and what he can pr obabl y t est i f y4 t o t he cat egor i es her e, he knows about t he pur chase

5 agreement t hat happened. He was empl oyed t here when

6 i t happened. He knows i t r el at es t o t hi s case and

7 how he can opi ne t hat Wai some' s l oan was actual l y

8 par t of t he asset s t hat wer e t aken over . But he' s

9 not goi ng t o know - - he wasn' t i nvol ved i n t he

10 br oker i ng of t hi s deal or anyt hi ng l i ke t hat .

11 MS. MACK: Ri ght . I ' m not goi ng t o ask hi m

12 quest i ons about t hat . Thank you, Rachel .

13 Q ( By Ms. Mack) Mr . Nar di , i f you wi l l go

14 f ur t her down i n t he def i ni t i on sect i on under asset s.

15 A Yes.

16 Q Woul d you agr ee wi t h me t hat t he pur chase and

17 assumpt i on agr eement cont empl at es a l i st of asset s?

18 A It does. It defines assets.

19 Q Okay. And doesn' t i t r ef er t o t hem as bei ng

20 i ncl uded on a schedul e?

21 A Bear with me a second.

22 Well, it's not saying anything about schedule

23 in the definition of assets. Is there some other place

24 I should look?

25 Q Sect i on 3. 1 - - sor r y. Sect i on, not schedul e.


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1 A It does say pursuant to Section 3.1, assets

2 owned by --

3 Q Okay.4 A -- the subsidiary.

5 Q I f you woul d t ur n t o Sect i on 3. 1, pl ease.

6 A Okay.

7 Q Okay. Woul d you pl ease r evi ew 3. 1, unl ess you

8 have a worki ng knowl edge of i t wi t hout r evi ewi ng i t ?

9 A No, I'll take a moment.

10 Okay.

11 Q Wher e woul d we f i nd t he asset s pur chased by

12 t he assumi ng bank t hat are i ndi cated on Page 9 of t he

13 pur chase and assumpt i on agreement ?


15 Q ( By Ms. Mack) I mean, wher e woul d we f i nd t he

16 Schedul e 3. 1( a) t hat ' s i ndi cat ed i n Sect i on 3. 1 of t he

17 pur chase and assumpt i on agreement ?

18 A I think I answered the question with previous

19 testimony, but I will do it again. I've never seen the

20 schedule reflected -- contemplated here. I've been

21 searching for it for some time in relation to other

22 cases I've been preparing for. And from what I can

23 tell, it never actually materialized. Through the

24 transaction, it was either too lengthy a document to

25 actually put on paper, or what have you. But I've never


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1 seen it, and I've never come across anyone that has.

2 Q Where di d you l ook f or t he Schedul e 3. 1( a)

3 when you wer e l ooki ng f or i t ?4 A Anywhere that I could. And, really, the quest

5 wasn't just in systems or repositories of MS documents.

6 It was research through contacting folks who may have

7 had contact with it in the past in working in different

Lawrence Nardi Deposition - Part 2

Documents

Transcript of Lawrence Nardi Deposition - Part 2