KSBHA Hearing Transcript: LTC Terry Lakin Denied Kansas Medical License for Challenging Obama's...

8/3/2019 KSBHA Hearing Transcript: LTC Terry Lakin Denied Kansas Medical License for Challenging Obama's Eligibility

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10/21/2011 BOARD MEETING 1

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2 BEFORE THE KANSAS STATE BOARD OF HEALING ARTS

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4 IN THE MATTER OF CONFERENCE HEARING APPLICATION

5 TERRENCE LAKIN, D.O.

6 Case No. 12-HA00029

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12 TRANSCRIPT OF

13 PROCEEDINGS

14 taken on the 21st day of October, 2011, beginning

15 at 2:02 p.m., at the Board of Healing Arts, 800

16 Southwest Jackson, in the City of Topeka, County

17 of Shawnee, and State Kansas, before, Gary

18 Counselman, D.C., Hearing Officer.

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1 APPEARANCES

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4 ON BEHALF OF THE BOARD:

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6 Ms. Stacy R. Bond

7 Kansas State Board of Healing Arts

8 800 Southwest Jackson

9 Suite A

10 Topeka, Kansas 66612

11 785-296-7413

12 [email protected]

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15 ON BEHALF OF THE LICENSEE:

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17 Pro se

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1 HEARING OFFICER: Doctor Lakin,

2 Conference Hearing Application. Docket No.

3 12-HA00029. Disciplinary Panel 26: Doctor Webb,

4 Doctor Templeton, Doctor Soria, Doctor Galbraith,

5 Doctor Settich. Any other recusals?

6 THE BOARD: (No response.)

7 HEARING OFFICER: Okay. State your

8 appearances, please.

9 MS. BOND: May it please the board, Stacy

10 Bond, associate litigation counsel, appears on

11 behalf of the board. Terrence Lakin, M.D., (sic)

12 appears in person and pro se in this matter.

13 These materials begin on E-book page 1,354 of your

14 -- your E-book. We are here today on Doctor

15 Lakin's application for licensure as a physician

16 in the state of Kansas. In that application for

17 licensure he answered yes to disciplinary

18 questions 20, 21, 20 and 22 in Addendum 2 which

19 asks if you have ever been arrested, have you ever

20 been charged with a crime, or have you ever been

21 court-martialed or discharged dishonorably from

22 the armed source -- armed services. Doctor Lakin

23 was subject to a general court-martial on December

24 14th through 16th of 2010. After that

25 court-martial he was convicted of one


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1 specification of missing movement in violation of

2 Article 87 in the Uniform Code of Military Justice

3 and three specifications of failing to deploy and

4 disobeyed direct orders from his commanding

5 officer to deploy in support of Operation Enduring

6 Freedom in order to render medical services to our

7 armed services that were fighting in the combat

8 Enduring Freedom.

9 Applicant has stated and stated before his

10 basis for refusal on his belief that President

11 Obama is not qualified to act as Commander in

12 Chief or the President of the United States due to

13 his belief that President Obama was not born in

14 the United States. He took this matter to a

15 hearing and was found to be in violation of the

16 Uniform Code of Military Justice. He was

17 discharged from the services and he did spend

18 approximately, I believe, six months in

19 confinement at Fort Leavenworth. He is here

20 before you today requesting that he been granted

21 licensure. It is before the board to determine

22 whether or not he should be granted that licensure

23 and whether or not his refusal to follow order to

24 render -- to be able to deploy to render medical

25 -- medical aide to individuals involved in


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1 Operating Enduring Freedom would disqualify him

2 from licensure in the State of Kansas. Doctor

3 Conley.

4 DOCTOR CONLEY: It's your opinion that

5 it's a felony or a Class A misdemeanor?

6 MS. BOND: You know, there is no

7 correlating civil -- or criminal in civil in that

8 I can find that correlates that. I think the big

9 question here also in regards to, you know, he had

10 a duty. He was an officer in the United States

11 military. He had a duty, he signed up for that

12 duty, he swore to support the Constitution of the

13 United States and he did not do that by refusing

14 to deploy. And in doing so there was one less

15 physician, one less individual over in the Middle

16 East that could be there to render medical

17 services to our armed forces. So it's not just

18 whether or not it was a felony or a misdemeanor,

19 but his morale actions in refusing to go that I

20 believe need to be addressed by this board.

21 DOCTOR BEEZLEY: There is a misprint on.

22 Did he -- he is not an M.D., correct?

23 DOCTOR LAKIN: D.O. Yes, there is a

24 misprint.

25 MS. BOND: I'm sorry, my fault. He needs


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1 to be sworn in.

2 TERRENCE LAKIN, D.O.,

3 called as a witness on behalf of the Respondent,

4 was sworn and testified as follows:

5 DOCTOR LAKIN: Board members, thank you

6 for letting me appear here and I -- I understand

7 that, you know, this is a new application and --

8 and you have the responsibility to make sure that

9 you have licensure to competent physicians. I

10 think the question of my military conviction was

11 solely administrative and military in -- military

12 in process. It has no civilian equivalent. It

13 also has no reflection upon my medical abilities

14 or privileges. I hope I have enough copies that I

15 passed out letters from my attorneys stating that

16 fact that at no time during my conviction or my

17 trial processes or any question about my military

18 privileges. And, in fact, I was performing

19 medical care for the military at Walter Reed up

20 until the week of my trial. And I had numerous

21 discussions with supervisors and credentials that

22 there was no question about my abilities or my

23 privileges and we're not going to revoke them. So

24 I think -- you know, I don't want to step into

25 political or, you know, other type of discussions,


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1 but I do think that I had a responsibility as an

2 officer and my oath to uphold the Constitution and

3 my loyalty and my -- my convictions I took a stand

4 and I stood by those and that was in defense of

5 the military and the Constitution and of the

6 enlisted soldiers that don't have that right as

7 their oath of office allows them. My oath of

8 office as an officer has much more of -- has much

9 more responsibility to questioning orders that I

10 thought might be illegal. And I went through a

11 process in the military for over a year and a half

12 to try and define that and I received no

13 responses, and essentially I was left with a -- a

14 decision to make, and from that decision I had a

15 conviction and I take my punishment and I'm ready

16 to move on into my medical practice. Subject to

17 your questions, I --

18 THE SPEAKER: If I can introduce myself

19 I'm --

20 MS. BOND: I'm going to object to this

21 individual testifying. This is a conference

22 hearing. It's not set up for parties. I believe

23 this is Doctor Lakin's brother, am I correct?

24 THE SPEAKER: Right.

25 MS. STEVENS: It wouldn't be appropriate


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1 to have anyone other than the parties testify in a

2 conference proceeding.

3 THE SPEAKER: Okay. Even if I act as a

4 legal representative?

5 MS. BOND: Are you an attorney?

6 THE SPEAKER: I have been a practicing

7 attorney until I saw the light and became a

8 physician.

9 MS. BOND: So you're not licensed in the

10 State of Kansas?

11 THE SPEAKER: I'm not licensed in the

12 state of Kansas. I am licensed in Colorado.

13 MS. STEVENS: We cannot allow you to act

14 as legal counsel in the board proceeding.

15 THE SPEAKER: All right. I just want the

16 truth to come out about his history and

17 performance.

18 HEARING OFFICER: Doctor Beezley.

19 DOCTOR BEEZLEY: When did you join the

20 Army?

21 DOCTOR LAKIN: It was 1993. I was in --

22 DOCTOR BEEZLEY: Why did you join the

23 Army?

24 THE SPEAKER: Because I wanted to serve

25 my country, and I -- I was in medical school up at


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1 Kansas City and -- and I -- I -- our whole family

2 has always been in public service. Teachers or

3 firefighters or policemen and the military and

4 that was my calling to serve the military.

5 DOCTOR BEEZLEY: Did you think that you

6 might some time during your career be deployed

7 overseas?

8 THE SPEAKER: Definitely. And I enjoyed

9 deployments. In fact, I was deployed to Honduras

10 for a year. I was in Bosnia in the first wave for

11 a year, and most recently I was in Afghanistan for

12 -- I was '05 -- in 2004 I was --

13 DOCTOR SETTICH: Excuse me, sir. Would

14 you speak into the microphone, please. Thank you.

15 DOCTOR LAKIN: I've had numerous

16 deployments and most recently in 2004 I deployed

17 to Afghanistan as a squadron flight surgeon for

18 the calvary, and I was actually a -- looking to

19 volunteer again because I completed my second

20 residency in occupational medicine and I was

21 looking to -- I knew we had a high OPTEMPO, and I

22 was voluntary to deploy until I came up with an

23 ethical and moral problem that I couldn't solve

24 and I started withdrawing my volunteering to

25 deploy.


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1 DOCTOR BEEZLEY: So I guess you need to

2 explain the difference between going to

3 Afghanistan in 2004 and going over there after

4 President Obama elected, is that the big kick?

5 DOCTOR LAKIN: Yes. And, you know,

6 despite what was said, I have always just -- you

7 know I don't know what beliefs or where Ms. Bond

8 gathered my beliefs in what she's stating, but I

9 have maintained the standard if there is a

10 questions that needs to be answered and I tried to

11 use the military process to find the answer to

12 this question, and the military was unable to give

13 me an answer and -- and so I, you know, I did what

14 I thought was right and I took my punishment from

15 the military and that's -- that's done with.

16 HEARING OFFICER: Doctor Whitmer.

17 DOCTOR WHITMER: Do you believe he was a

18 U.S. citizen, President Obama?

19 DOCTOR LAKIN: I don't know what it --

20 DOCTOR WHITMER: What would it take to

21 (inaudible) --

22 THE REPORTER: I can't hear you. I'm

23 sorry.

24 DOCTOR WHITMER: The long form of his

25 birth certificate has been publicized. What does


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1 it take to make you believe that he is a U.S.

2 citizen?

3 DOCTOR LAKIN: I think that I have a

4 question and I don't think that question has been

5 answered, but it has nothing to do with my medical

6 capabilities.

7 DOCTOR WHITMER: What would it take to

8 have that answered?

9 DOCTOR LAKIN: I think it needs to have

10 validation from --

11 DOCTOR WHITMER: Does a birth certificate

12 -- a valid --

13 DOCTOR LAKIN: A valid birth certificate.

14 DOCTOR WHITMER: Does he not have a valid

15 birth certificate?

16 DOCTOR LAKIN: There has many --

17 HEARING OFFICER: Excuse me --

18 MS. STEVENS: We're going outside --

19 THE REPORTER: Thank you.

20 DOCTOR WHITMER: Say if and when he's

21 elected again the Health Reconciliation Act

22 becomes law, which it already is, and all of a

23 sudden we have 20 million more people who've got

24 healthcare are you going to refuse those people

25 because this is?


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1 DOCTOR LAKIN: No, no, no. I was being

2 ordered to a combat zone to, you know, put my life

3 on the line along with every other soldier out

4 there that can't ask this question and I asked the

5 question. I spent a year and a half trying to

6 address this through the military channels and got

7 no answer. Now, I've, you know, again if this has

8 to do with my medical --

9 DOCTOR WHITMER: The military (inaudible)

10 --

11 DOCTOR LAKIN: Let me back up (inaudible)

12 --

13 THE REPORTER: I can't hear. I cannot

14 hear.

15 MS. STEVENS: We're not -- we're not

16 getting the comments on -- the court reporter

17 isn't able to take them down when people are

18 talking over each other.

19 DOCTOR LAKIN: Well, let me back up a

20 little bit and just say that I believe that the

21 entry into the national data bank registry by

22 medical -- med -- Medcom. I believe that was an

23 error and I think the documentation that I've

24 shown you supports that my -- my lawyers that have

25 followed my case and --


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1 HEARING OFFICER: Ms. Bond, did you have

2 an objection to this?

3 MS. BOND: I have reviewed those. I

4 believe that at least one of these documents is

5 already contained in your packet, therefore, I

6 have no objection to these being entered.

7 HEARING OFFICER: Okay.

8 DOCTOR LAKIN: And I will be working in

9 the process of getting the national data bank to

10 correct that. It's going to go -- be several

11 months to make the Army review that and hopefully

12 they will see the truth, too, and -- and withdraw

13 that first item in the entry and just talk about

14 my administrative military convictions. It has

15 nothing to do with my medical practice or

16 rendering services. I never --

17 HEARING OFFICER: Well you keep saying

18 that, but, you know, there is a lot of things that

19 we do in our private life that does have an effect

20 -- effect on how we apply to the healthcare field,

21 so.

22 DOCTOR LAKIN: The statement that one

23 other person had the deployment placed. The

24 military accommodates for everything and I gave

25 them well enough advance notice that this may be a


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1 problem. There was several doctors that were in

2 the que also. Physicians deploying with a unit

3 are not -- no one in the military is a key

4 personnel who can't be combat effective.

5 HEARING OFFICER: Do we have any other

6 questions for the doctor? Any other comments?

7 DOCTOR BEEZLEY: I would like to make a

8 motion that we continue this until Doctor Lakin

9 can successfully clear this issue with the

10 national data bank if possible.

11 DOCTOR WHITMER: I'll second that.

12 HEARING OFFICER: Okay. We have a motion

13 to second?

14 DOCTOR WHITMER: I second.

15 HEARING OFFICER: Okay, Doctor Whitmer

16 second. Any other comments?

17 DOCTOR LAKIN: Can I just clarify that.

18 There again that first sentence in the statement

19 --

20 DOCTOR BEEZLEY: You're -- you're trying

21 to petition the national data bank to get this

22 report from the Army about the incarceration of

23 felony withdrawn, correct?

24 DOCTOR LAKIN: No. I -- I -- what I have

25 problems is I think your -- your issue also is


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1 that first statement. Essentially the first

2 sentence in the entry is that I failed to render

3 medical services on deployment and that should not

4 be there. That was not a charge. That was never

5 addressed in -- in my -- in my charges or my

6 conviction. And if I get that first sentence in

7 the entry removed would there be any question with

8 the board about my application then.

9 HEARING OFFICER: I move we go into

10 executive session.

11 DOCTOR WELSH: Okay.

12 DOCTOR MINNS: Second. Minns.

13 HEARING OFFICER: Okay. For how long?

14 DOCTOR LEINWETTER: 15 minutes.

15 HEARING OFFICER: We'll go into executive

16 session and come back in at 2:30. (EXECUTIVE

17 SESSION.)

18 HEARING OFFICER: We are back in open

19 session. Doctor Beezley.

20 DOCTOR BEEZLEY: I would like to withdraw

21 my motion to table this application.

22 HEARING OFFICER: Is there a second?

23 MS. STEVENS: I don't think there was a

24 second to his motion.

25 HEARING OFFICER: No.


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1 DOCTOR BEEZLEY: I don't think it was

2 seconded.

3 MS. BROWN: I had Doctor Whitmer.

4 DOCTOR WHITMER: Yeah, I seconded.

5 MS. BROWN: Withdraw.

6 HEARING OFFICER: All in allowing that to

7 withdraw say aye.

8 THE BOARD: Aye.

9 HEARING OFFICER: Okay. Opposed?


11 HEARING OFFICER: Doctor Whitmer.

12 DOCTOR WHITMER: Mr. President, I make a

13 motion. I think the board finds that the

14 court-martial is dishonorable conduct, therefore,

15 we deny the license.

16 HEARING OFFICER: Okay. Do I hear a

17 second?

18 DOCTOR WELSH: Second.

19 HEARING OFFICER: Doctor Welsh. Any

20 other discussions?


22 DOCTOR BEEZLEY: Do we give him an

23 opportunity to withdraw his application for

24 voting?

25 DOCTOR WELSH: No.


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1 DOCTOR BEEZLEY: Okay.


3 HEARING OFFICER: Hearing no other

4 discussion all in favor of the motion say aye.

5 THE BOARD: Aye.

6 HEARING OFFICER: Opposed?


8 HEARING OFFICER: We deny your

9 application.

10 DOCTOR LAKIN: And the reason being that?

11 HEARING OFFICER: We consider that

12 dishonorable conduct and that is within our

13 statute.

14 MR. STOOKEY: Doctor Lakin, there will be

15 a Final Order published with a notice and appeal

16 rights. That order will be sent to you.

17 THE SPEAKER: Okay. Thank you.

18 (THEREUPON, the conference hearing on

19 application for licensure concluded at 2:34 P.M.)

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1 CERTIFICATE

2 STATE OF KANSAS

3 ss:

4 COUNTY OF SHAWNEE

5 I, Cameron L. Gooden, a Certified

6 Shorthand Reporter, commissioned as such by

7 the Supreme Court of the State of Kansas,

8 and authorized to take depositions and

9 administer oaths within said State pursuant

10 to K.S.A. 60-228, certify that the foregoing

11 was reported by stenographic means, which

12 matter was held on the date, and the time

13 and place set out on the title page hereof

14 and that the foregoing constitutes a true

15 and accurate transcript of the same.

16 I further certify that I am not related

17 to any of the parties, nor am I an employee

18 of or related to any of the attorneys

19 representing the parties, and I have no

20 financial interest in the outcome of this

21 matter.

22 Given under my hand and seal this

23 day of , 2011.

24 ______________________________

25 Cameron L. Gooden, C.S.R. No. 1335

KSBHA Hearing Transcript: LTC Terry Lakin Denied Kansas Medical License for Challenging Obama's...

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Transcript of KSBHA Hearing Transcript: LTC Terry Lakin Denied Kansas Medical License for Challenging Obama's...