Kirkwood History ProjectInterview of Doug and Lynn MinnieInterview Number: 18ATranscribing Date: 05/21/2004Transcriber Initials: AB

Interviewer 1: Tape number 18, March 21st. Doug and Lynn Minnie interviewed by Lesley Reid and Ray McGrath. Interviewer 1: (Tape starts up mid sentence) I was at homes, I don’t know who all exactly was involved at the very beginning. They had been starting up the history committee to try to find out more about and record more of the history of the neighborhood and so that’s how we got started and we just wanted to collect just an oral history of the people that were somehow associated with Kirkwood at some point in their lives. From people who moved out in the 60’s to people who lived through the 60’s to people who just recently come to Kirkwood. And our aim with it is to put together a website which will have just short snippets of the videos we are doing. And then transcripts of the complete videos so just to let you know unless you tell us otherwise there may be snippets of your video on the website and the transcript will be on there as well, kind of to provide a resource to people. The videos are really for people who want to know a little bit about Kirkwood and then the complete transcripts and the digitalized versions of documents and pictures and things we’ve picked up along the way to provide a more in-depth resource for people who just are interested or people who may want to do research on neighborhoods so that’s what we are doing.

Lynn Minnie: Did you talk to that group, Kirkwood Boys Club?

Interviewer 1: Oh, the Good Old Boys of Kirkwood?

Lynn Minnie: Yeah, the Good Old Boys, yeah.

Interviewer 2: We talked with one from that generation although he didn’t acknowledge being a member.

Interviewer 1: No, he didn’t acknowledge being a member but he knew of it, knew the people who were involved in it. Lamar Fagan. Yeah, by the way he had moved out when he graduated from high school. He grew up in Kirkwood and he just sent me photographs so we have an enormous number of just cool photographs of his home and relatives. And his grandfather ran a barbershop off of Hosea Williams. And so we have pictures of inside his barbershop and some prices of when his haircut was a quarter.

Interviewer 2: And his mother had a restaurant.

Interviewer 1: But that’s with that. And I’ll turn over to Ray and we kind of just---

Doug Minnie: When is the camera rolling?

Interviewer 1: The camera’s rolling now. And you can just go whenever. We will have to edit out later.

Interviewer 2: Okay, we are visiting with Doug and Lynn Minnie. I remember them living on Howard Street a number of years ago. What year did you move into Kirkwood?

Lynn Minnie: It was 1980. (Phone rings) Yeah, October of 1980.

Interviewer 2: What made you aware of--what caused you to become interested into Kirkwood?

Lynn Minnie: I was thinking about that the other day. We were looking at (phone rings) we were living at the park, we were renting an apartment, got married. And there was a person living upstairs from us, an accountant who said the interest rates were being to get sky high, they were at 11%, so if we don’t own a house right now we will never ever be able to afford a house, and they had more money then we did. They bought on at Candler Park and we started looking, wasn’t there an article in the paper on Sandy Oaks and there was a photograph that caused—it was about Kirkwood—that caused us to become interested in Kirkwood (inaudible few words) in some houses.

Interviewer 2: Well what was your impression of Kirkwood when you first visited?

Lynn Minnie: That it needed a lot of work. But the houses were amazing and we were just blown away by the houses. And we saw the one that we bought and we were young and---

Doug Minnie: Impressionable.

Lynn Minnie: Impressionable, stupid is the word that comes to my mind, but we saw potential. They were dividing it into apartments and stuff.

Doug Minnie: (Inaudible sentence)

Lynn Minnie: But it had great (inaudible) so we bought it and moved in the house in February.

Interviewer 2: How did you find in the neighborhood?

Lynn Minnie: What was it like when we moved there? Or---

Interviewer 2: Well, architecturally, environmentally, but also the people.1 Yeah, it was a neat mix of people, there were people that resented the fact that we there. That was very clear. But there were some wonderful older residents like Rudy Jones and I am trying to remember the name of the man that lived further down in a 2-story white house---

Interviewer 2: Ben.

Lynn Minnie: Mr. Ben. He was the nicest man in the world.

Interviewer 2: His wife still lives there.

Lynn Minnie: Really, I never really got to know her but he always made us feel like-he and Rudy Jones both, I always thought were the best neighbors in the world. We tried to keep contact but we lost contact.

Doug Minnie: Is Rudy still there?

Interviewer 2: For a year or two he was living over there at that time. (Inaudible sentence)

Lynn Minnie: Really. He was just a great guy and I didn’t even remember his name.

Interviewer 2: Well what did you find here that was special about Kirkwood? Did you find that it was a good choice for you personally?

Lynn Minnie: Yeah, the architecture was amazing. We could see the potential. Doug and I are both interested in starting restoration. That was what I was doing at the time. And he loves to build things. So yeah, we just kind of got into our own

little house but we worked to get the neighborhood association started too.

Doug Minnie: We sure did.

Lynn Minnie: As we where there and other people started behind him and we began to see the potential when we weren’t in there by our selves. There were a lot of people that moved in within the first 3 or 4 years that we were there. I remember that they were---

Interviewer 2: Well tell me about your urban pioneer experience.

Lynn Minnie: (Inaudible first few words) as I remember it distinctively being negative and that was probably one of the low points of our history there.

Interviewer 2: Who were your neighbors?

Lynn Minnie: It was a group called Acorn that-I remember thinking my reaction to them was, who the heck are you to tell me that I shouldn’t be living in this neighborhood and you’re white, your coming in here making the assumption that because we are white we’re doing terrible things even though we are living within a mixed neighborhood and you’re picketing my house and it was very, it was a low point. Where you are sitting there you start second-guessing who you are and what you are doing.

Doug Minnie: Acorn was just a bunch of actors that other people stirred up and they didn’t necessarily believe in their cause. They just thought that they had great actors.

Interviewer 1: Now did Acorn just picket houses of new white homeowners?

Lynn Minnie: They are still around, (inaudible).

Interviewer 1: The national organization, yeah.

Lynn Minnie: But I would guess they just picketing special owners.

Doug Minnie: They picked out our house since we were the most visible house I guess.

Interviewer 2: About what year was this?

Doug Minnie: 1984.

Lynn Minnie: Yeah, we didn’t have Logan yet, Logan was born in 1985 so it was within those first 4 or 5 years. When you really began to think, wait a minute, why are we here? We felt that we were doing-trying to do good things. We were working with people like Mr. Bens and Mr. Jones. They would call us about crime issues because they were afraid to call. A lot of the older residents would complain that they were afraid to call and they-Doug would be the lighting line because he wasn’t afraid. We were going to city hall and fighting zoning issues all the time and that part, it get old. It really could. When you lose, it seemed like every zoning fight we went after we-usually house, churches or rezoning, tearing down houses, it feel like you were fighting to maintain this really fragile neighborhood fabric and it lost every chance you got because the planning understandable planning did.

Interviewer 1: Can you think of any specific example of what sticks in your mind this many years later as the big winner or the big lose in the fight for zoning?

Lynn Minnie: I really don’t. The one that sticks out in my mind was the rezoning fight in a house church that we bought and there again you are played out as the devil incarnated, how could you be against a church? And their rational argument was (inaudible) but I do remember that one. I remember seen all the lights, stay, stay, stay. They were planning, hearings were set up because you are sitting there for so long and then you feel like you’re weren’t listened to. And our city commissioners at the time they weren’t listening to us, we weren’t their constituents basically.

Interviewer 2: How did you-did you feel like were getting neighborhood support at all? While this was going on?

Lynn Minnie: We did from the newer residents, occasionally we could get Rudy and Mr. Bens, but they were put between a rock and a hard place. Mary Dolwer to some extent. But we didn’t get a lot of visible local support for the local African-American community at all. It was (inaudible name) and the whites that moved in were the ones fighting so.

Interviewer 2: You mentioned (inaudible same name)…what do you remember of her? You mentioned it; there was an article in the paper about her.

Lynn Minnie: She was a realty agent I think, I don’t know who she discovered the neighborhood, I don’t remember. But she had bought-she had actually bought our house.

Doug Minnie: I don’t think we bought this one here.

Lynn Minnie: Yeah, I thought she had bought this one here.

Doug Minnie: Oh yeah.

Lynn Minnie: Alright.

Doug Minnie: She had bought some Victorian---

Lynn Minnie: Oh yeah. That one, but wasn’t Sandy…Sandy worked with her?

Doug Minnie: No.

Lynn Minnie: well then maybe you tell it, I don’t remember. How was Sandy?

Doug Minnie: She was the one that bought the house---

Lynn Minnie: She was across the street from us and then she bought it from the same woman. I though she did. She didn’t stay very long.

Interviewer 2: Do you remember when she left?

Doug Minnie: 1982.

Lynn Minnie: Yeah, she bought in-she was already there.

Doug Minnie: She moved there.

Lynn Minnie: She bought in about the time we did but they didn’t stay but 3 years.

Interviewer 2: Do you have any idea where they might have left?

Lynn Minnie: They live in Forrest. I think basically she was left with a house and I think it got to be too much. They were working on the kitchen and they really gutted it, there wasn’t much of it left. She sort of took care of it I think.

Interviewer 2: Well I think of you as being one of the early people that got up to organize a Kirkwood association. Can you share some of those experiences with us?

Lynn Minnie: I think that honestly my mind is a little cloudy.

Interviewer 1: Was there an organization there that you built on or was there an idea to start or actually a group of people?

Lynn Minnie: Yeah, there was a group of people, Sandy and…

Doug Minnie: Half a dozen people initially.

Lynn Minnie: Yeah, and then we would meet them there and we did a logo. Somebody in the neighborhood developed a logo. It’s changed but also a creation of that original logo with the K in it but it usually have a dogwood blossom at the top and (inaudible) at the bottom. Doug had it turned into a screen, an enhance screen for t-shirts and made our own t-shirts. Had a little t-shirt production company (inaudible few words) for a while. But we tried to be more complaint, with our newsletter.

Interviewer 2: Where did you meet?

Lynn Minnie: We met at the Coliseum Hall, which is what we always called it. Interesting. When you want (inaudible) Doug would go and get this place that was a sobering experience once.

Interviewer 1: What was your aim at starting that, or your goals?

Lynn Minnie: I am not sure, I don’t remember. Just I guess to get folks

together and try to improve the neighborhood; there wasn’t any neighborhood association. To figure out what we could do together as a group to look at the zoning issues and the crime, crime was a big issue for everybody. Crime was a big concern. A lot of petty crime.

Interviewer 2: Did you feel that you had a cross racial support when you dealt with crime?

Lynn Minnie: That depended. That’s the one where people would complain quietly and tell you things quietly but when it came down to publicly, we were cracking down on drug houses, then we would get the backlash. There would be people saying they were being picked on and the folks how really were supporting it wouldn’t come and back us and it was understandable. It was but it would be frustrating.

Interviewer 2: Well it sounds like there was also a lot of fear in the minds of the individuals who were able to speak out.

Interviewer 1: Most of the respond to the police is that kind of fear.

Lynn Minnie: We actually got, that was what worked out most, and we got to know the police officers.

Doug Minnie: Had developed personal relationships.

Lynn Minnie: Yeah.

Doug Minnie: Basically had our neighborhood more enforced. (Inaudible sentence)

Lynn Minnie: But once we got to know all of them we were in. But before it was turn away and attitude but it got better. It

got a lot better. I think they were so used to just writing it off that once they got people that were actually calling and complaining it gave them a reason to come in there.

Interviewer 2: The squeaky wheel.

Lynn Minnie: We were that. That narrows the window.

Interviewer 2: Okay, you lived on Howard St, what are some of the-did you choose Howard Street or is that just where the house was located?

Lynn Minnie: That’s where the house was located. We were very spontaneous, probably still are. But it was sort of like, okay we did buy a house, we need to buy it now. We go and look it, it was cool, we were really interested. We just started to read about commissions and America Four Squares and arts and craft movement, we really wanted an arts and craft house, or I did, I think. And it was there, it was for sale, like $25,000, $23,000 so we bought it.

Doug Minnie: Yeah, we bought it near Grant Park, Grant Park.

Lynn Minnie: It was our first purchase.

Interviewer 2: So what are some of your fonder memories of that house and the neighborhood?

Lynn Minnie: Oh, we loved that house. It--we, that's all we did, literally for nine years, that was our spare time, that was our bank, that house. Every dime we had, every moment we had went into that house. We had a great garden that bloomed in the back. We re-built that front porch that our friends use to tease us about. How structurally sound that front porch was,

that the house would rot but the porch would still be there. I remember passing lumber up through the attic because we rebuilt the attic, the attic floor. In the sense that that was built by our hands. The crape myrtles that are huge now we planted. Doug planted those trees along the railroad tracks-that most of them have died, I think people have replanted. But I remember every Saturday he'd go on down there with buckets of water, and water those trees. Yeah, he did. He had to hand water those things. So there were those kind of stuff. Both our kids were born there.

Interviewer 2: And do you remember some of the difficulties in keeping that house warm during the winter?

Lynn Minnie: Oh gosh, yeah, because we didn't have heat. Until our daughter was born we didn't have central heat. And we would go downstairs in the kitchen in the morning and Doug's waterfall would be frozen solid. And upstairs, we got coal. He would go to the coal yard and buy a truckload of coal and that was our heat upstairs. We would burn coal in our fireplace in our bedroom. We had a gas heater in the bathroom and we would get up in the morning and we would run to the bathroom because that was the warmest place in the house. And we were so loaded with coal that that was in. We did get a furnace in. Oh yeah, there were great times like that. The rats that would run-our dogs were excellent rat catchers. They'd hear a scurrying around downstairs and you'd hear "Ehh" and you'd know that the dogs caught it. That was always fun.

Interviewer 2: Do you think that your lifestyle was pretty difficult as an urban pioneer at that time?

Doug Minnie: Oh yeah, we had to be real careful who we invited over. They had to have certain sensibilities. There were people that we would never have invited over to our house.

Interviewer 2: Do you look back on these memories as good memories then?

Lynn Minnie: Oh yeah, I do. Doug hated, actually hated leaving that house. It was hard for him.

Interviewer 2: I guess that should answer the question why?

Doug Minnie: Why?

Interviewer 1: When did you leave?

Lynn Minnie: We left in [1992], we had just spent a fortune redoing our kitchen. It was gorgeous. It was wonderful. We had it for about a year, before we decided to move. And it was really for a couple of reasons. The one that sticks out in my mine is that he wasn't home from work yet that day, and Will would have been two years old, and Grace was born in March, it was during the late summer, early fall. And I was in the backyard, no I wasn't. I was looking out the window and there were kids playing in the playground right next to where we live. And a Dekalb County police officer comes running through the playground chasing a drug dealer with his gun drawn in the air. "Well, that's it. I've had it. I can't take this anymore." We had the kids, the neighborhood didn't seem to really be going anywhere. I was working in Decatur and I was zoning and all that kind of stuff. And then having to come home and do it at night. And we began to worry about school, were we were going to send them to school. There were no kids in the neighborhood, there's weren’t any kids in the neighborhood, and there didn't

seem be any prospect for any kids in the neighborhood. So I am the one that pitched a fit and said, "We have to get out of here, I can't take this any longer." And he had put so much of himself in that house, it was hard. I know it was hard. That house was him all the way. He also told me that I had to find the other house (everyone laughs). But I did, I had to go out early and look for a house.

Interviewer 2: I think really yours was one of the first houses that was purchased by a Kirkwood resident.

Doug Minnie: Yes that's---

Interviewer 2: So that considered another [connection].

Doug Minnie: I know, that was great. Nice to know that we're getting someone in the neighborhood that appreciates it. Nice to know that we could sell it, I'd say that was a good one. And then this house came along. And we just loved this house and it felt right, and the kids got to go Winona Park and it was good to us, so.

Interviewer 2: So you moved over there maybe even though you regret this house…why did this happen to you? As always?

Doug Minnie: Well, absolutely I look at it and think, you know, we really bought that house by selling my old car, that was our down payment. We had no money, our parents didn't give us any money, everything that we got out of that house we put in it, less what appears in it. And that money that we were making and that we were able to take all that effort and get this house, and yeah, and I look at it and we got our life going I guess.

Interviewer 1: But it wasn't-I think that it was the fact that it was your first

house and you did work so hard on it, it must have been hard to leave that house.

Lynn Minnie: part of me much was attached.

Doug Minnie: We did have an attachment to that house. the play swing that we made for our kids with our friends, that we worked on, that my mother had worked on, and the stenciling and really I didn't want to leave that, but we did. And she re-stenciled it over here, so it was okay. So I've painted over it twice now.

Interviewer 1: Have you-when we mentioned the tour of homes, have you been back to the house, have you seen the house?

Lynn Minnie: No, and that's what I was saying. I would never go back. I don't want to see it. I want to remember it the way it was. when we were there. I think it would be neat to go on tour and see everybody else's house. But that's, well I don't think I could do that.

Interviewer 2: I think that you'd discover to a large extent that it hasn't changed a whole lot. It's had some upgrading. But you'd still recognize it.

Lynn Minnie: Oh I am sure I'd recognize it but I just don't think I want to see it somebody else's furniture in it. I want to remember it like it was mine.

Interviewer 2: One of the questions that we like to ask that came up I our discussion this week together, would be the presence of spirits in the house. A number of homes in Kirkwood, people living in them have apparently shared their home, to share their home.Doug Minnie: Nah, the spirits that we had in there, some would bother, so I left (respondent inaudible).

Lynn Minnie: We still have-I'll show it to you-we moved in there, there was a refrigerator in the kitchen. Probably a 1940's or 1950's refrigerator. It's still running, we have it, we have it in the back. Use it for our beer refrigerator. We probably been through two or three of the big refrigerators and this one, still works. It's amazing. That whole piece in there.

Interviewer 1: You took on a big renovation. Did you find anything else that had interesting, intriguing stuff tucked away in different places in your house?

Doug Minnie: I don't think so. That was probably the most disappointing thing. Other people would find brick patios and formal gardens and all this stuff in their backyard, we never found any of that stuff.

Interviewer 2: Did you find any marbles in your yard as you (interviewer inaudible).

Doug Minnie: Yeah, we found marbles, we found some mini balls. We did find that kind of stuff, but no anything like tearing down a wall and there was this amazing find. Just junk.

Lynn Minnie: Kind of like NEA, natural lighting phase. Something like part of two.

Doug Minnie: Yeah, when we pulled the mantle off, we stripped off the--

Lynn Minnie: That was in the backyard.

Doug Minnie: I think our house was just pretty basic middle class house. It always had been.

Interviewer 2: Well one of the interesting thing about your house too is that there's a duplicate.

Lynn Minnie: There's a what?

Interviewer 1: A duplicate, yeah.

Interviewer 2: Which was, as far as I know, was the only house that has a duplicate from that period. We certainly have a lot of duplicates now around.

Doug Minnie: That was an Elizabeth's house, yeah.

Interviewer 1: For sake of the camera, what's the address of your old house and where's the duplicate?

Doug Minnie: Our house, 139 (respondent inaudible, overlapping speakers)

Lynn Minnie: (Respondent inaudible, overlapping speakers) our house, but that's off of Ash Street.

Lynn Minnie: And we did a property research and that kind of how-but I don't know where it is.

Doug Minnie: It was built in 1902.

Lynn Minnie: And there were-is it just one house that was alike, like Ann's house, and then a loft, and then Elizabeth's house, and it was like a mirror? I think it might have been a mirror.

Interviewer 2: No, it's just like the same floor site. Unfortunately it has been turned into a number of lower apartments.

Doug Minnie: So had ours.

Interviewer 2: You mention Elizabeth, do you remember her last name?

Lynn Minnie: Elizabeth is an interesting person too. She moved, and I don't remember hearing of her anymore.

Interviewer 2: Was she still living there when moved?

Lynn Minnie: She lived there in the 1980's, and then she left---

Doug Minnie: After she left before we did.

Interviewer 2: Well…apparently, I don't know where she moved to, but a short time after that, there apparently a report of a missing person. She showed up on a missing person report.

Lynn Minnie: Really? That's strange.

Interviewer 2: I don't know anything else---Lynn Minnie: She's related to Gale Flame.

Interviewer 1: Really?

Doug Minnie: NO I am sure she left before we did because she moved and then (tape inaudible, someone coughs) Cindy moved, and that made it hard, us feeling like, you know.

Interviewer 2: You are trying to raise to this pasture.

Doug Minnie: Everybody is moving on, nobody seemed to me to be sticking here.

Lynn Minnie: It was a [foul], he lived on whatever the street by that gray church.

Interviewer 2: Behind the church. Interviewer 1: Oh okay.

Interviewer 2: What year was this house up for sale, was it for quite some time? As I

understood your story was that as soon as you would fine somebody to put 1000 towards it, it sold.

Doug Minnie: Huh, I don't know.

Interviewer 2: You apparently put a lot of work into the house.

Doug Minnie: Yeah, we did. There were lots of offers (respondent inaudible, few words). Did you put it there?

Lynn Minnie: Mine still is.

Interviewer 1: When you say a lot of people moving out did you see many people moving back in at that point and time? Or was there a lull in-people saying, "You know what---"

Doug Minnie: I do believe any house just sat there. I don't remember anybody moving in to Elizabeth's house---

Interviewer 2: Yeah, it was empty for a little while and then, Fame bought it of the neighbors.

Lynn Minnie: I don't remember anybody moving in while we were there.

Interviewer 2: So he may have bought it after you moved.

Lynn Minnie: After, one time or two after chances house (respondent inaudible) it was purple for a long while.

Doug Minnie: Yeah, I remember Dan Long buying in, probably about 1988. And that felt good, I loved him. They were great neighbors. I never had neighbors as good as him and Sal. They were like almost too good, my kids still call Dan for a while. They stop by here. They used to come here and put out Easter candy every year for

our kids, each year. They have stopped that now but when they would get home at the end of the day, they kind of would come and take her over there, pick Logan up, take her over to their house while I cooked supper. She just adored them. And so we hated---

Lynn Minnie: They did it last year.

Doug Minnie: Yeah, they brought Easter over last year.

Interviewer 2: Since you mention it, the candy shop down on George St. I remember early in my living in Kirkwood from time to time, a plant would show up in the doorstep and I heard other people in the neighborhood did a favor-no one ever seemed to know where they came from.

Doug Minnie: We used to do some gardening stuff back and forth. There were a lot of plants.

Interviewer 2: I think people just bought plants.

Doug Minnie: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We had the garden going back there. We had asparagus, I wonder it is still there.

Lynn Minnie: It's probably roses now.

Doug Minnie: We had asparagus.

Interviewer 1: Well no more vegetables, uh? (Everyone laughs) Formal garden?

Lynn Minnie: I don't know if I'd call it formal, but certainly roses.

Doug Minnie: I rather have asparagus there.

Interviewer 2: I think we are set to go with a few more vegetables but I see

tomato plants in my yard. The first time I was there I kept watching them get bigger and bigger, turn from white, and the next thing I knew they were gone. (interviewer inaudible)

Doug Minnie: Oh, it might have been an animal.

Interviewer 2: I picked too late.

Doug Minnie: Yeah, oh well, that happen to me too. We had a lots of things disappear in Kirkwood, several times. The last time someone took our outline shirt. I was like jeeh, but we got that back, but that's another story.

Interviewer 1: How did you get it all back.

Lynn Minnie: Because he got so angry that time he went to every pawnshop on Candler Rd.

Lynn Minnie: I say some of them take them.

Lynn Minnie: Yeah he did, but they also taken my high school ring, he gave them a description and stuff. And a women called and said, "You won't believe this, but I got someone here trying to pawn that ring," and they called the police and they got there. Anyway, they saw like 10 burglaries and then when the police officers like two weeks later were walking on eh sidewalks with all of his shirts, because we had put them away, we didn't know they were missing. I was like, "Oh man, that is really sinking pretty low." You take a man's used shirts.

Interviewer 2: Well, I seem to recall this story with-well one afternoon after Doug worked very hard, he had laid out for a nap without locking the door.

Doug Minnie: Oh yeah.

Interviewer 2: When he woke up and went for his wallet, which he kept of his front counter or someplace, it was gone!

Doug Minnie: Yeah, that was when we were living, we were redoing the upstairs so we were sleeping in the dining room, that was our bedroom, and that's exactly what happen. We had gone out, grocery shopping and we left the front door unlocked and my god, somebody walked right in, into the dining room were he was sleeping, took the wallet and left. And I guess somebody found the wallet and was a mystery, and it always came back.

Interviewer 2: You were always finding a lot of wallets in the neighborhood.

Doug Minnie: You were.

Interviewer 2: I've turned in a couple of wallets.

Lynn Minnie: Actually somebody found my pocket book and returned it with everything in it. It was Logan was a baby and I was putting her in the car seat and I put my pocket book on top of the car and apparently it back up and fell off right in my driveway and somebody picked it up. So that was a good story. But I had forgotten about the wallet. I was back in the kitchen and the bedroom all at one time.

Interviewer 2: Where you involved with the booth at the Candler Park Festival for Kirkwood? That's where I heard about Kirkwood but that would have been 1982?Lynn Minnie: Yeah, I think we did do that.

Doug Minnie: Yeah, I think we did do that, yeah. Not just us but…

Interviewer 2: Yeah, but I don't remember if I talked with Doug or Paul. That must have been a while after we did the logo, because it did seem like we had an exhibit that we set up, that's right, we were marketing the neighborhood. I don't remember that. That's why I moved there.

Interviewer 1: And when you say you were marketing the neighborhood I know even now a lot of that self-marketing comes from realtors that live in the neighborhood. Where there many realtors at that time living in the neighborhood or---?

Lynn Minnie: Well, I don't remember any (laughs).

Interviewer 1: A lot of pure self-promotion.

Lynn Minnie: There were a few, this Victoria person that Robert-who I thought was Sandy obviously-but they were two different people. But at 14 West, the realty was kind of in there.

Interviewer 2: But there was a whole different set of rules. If you called-if you say a house there and then you called a realtor, you have a pretty good chance of not getting a return call. About mortgages, tell us about mortgages.

Lynn Minnie: We wouldn't have trouble. I know other people did, but we---

Doug Minnie: We had insurance problems.

Lynn Minnie: Yeah. We had real insurance troubles.

Interviewer 1: And what happened with that?

Lynn Minnie: I don't remember, that was back---

Doug Minnie: The first time I called our insurance agent with State Farm about two weeks after we moved in we got a letter, you don't have any insurance anymore.

Interviewer 1: And what were their specifications?

Lynn Minnie: Oh, they wouldn't insure anything in the neighborhood.

Doug Minnie: Yeah, they redlined it. But mortgage, we went through the Georgia Federal. And I mean I just remember the clerk being very helpful to us, putting down the first loan and then we got the first 10% down kind of thing. Decatur Federal was doing, actually was doing a really big marketing push for old houses but their interest rate was high and then Georgia Federal was in Atlanta (respondent inaudible). But we got them at 11% which was better then I thought we had gotten.

Lynn Minnie: So there weren't problems.

Doug Minnie: No, there wasn't. We had like $20,000, we thought we had gotten a deal, and the interest rates did go up about 16-17% after we bought it.

Interviewer 2: When I bought my neighbor at Virginia Ave, but I got a real good deal on mine, mine was 12%.

Lynn Minnie: They went back down, thank god. Bet it was a steal. That's funny.

Interviewer 1: And you say other people did have trouble with their mortgages that you know they were getting?Lynn Minnie: Not that I know of. I know insurance was tough but I did 't hear anybody have trouble with their mortgages.

Interviewer 2: I can apply for refinancing, I was trying to get out from under my 12% mortgage rate because interest rate did drop and part of the issue there was I was trying to refinance basically for how much I had to pay for it. It was basically such a low amount that a lot of finance institutions weren't interest in me. So I decided to become creative and see if I could do it on a home equity loan. And so I checked into home equity loans, and I applied at one of the (tape inaudible) in Atlanta and was prompted that it wasn't the way to go. But what was interesting is just that they-a couple of months later, I get a call from this company saying would you like to apply for home equity loan. I just applied and was turned down. Why should I apply now? So I got the impression that when I had gone from-the neighborhood got redlined into a federal government program and said, "You need to be doing more loans in low income neighborhoods. They had already checked me out, they were gridlocked with all the issues they had to deal with. Because when I called to say, "Oh, a gridlocked neighborhood." I knew it would be legal to not, it still be legal---Doug Minnie: We got a home equity loan, (respondent inaudible) at home right now. (Respondent inaudible) or something. (Long pause)

Interviewer 1: Now you said-I may be jumping ahead to far, stop me if I am. I understand that moving was tough for you. You put a lot of your heart and soul in that house. You've been gone from the neighborhood, ten plus years now but still very close to the neighborhood. So what are your, over those ten years, what have been your kind of thoughts on Kirkwood? Has it come as far as you thought it might, has it not come far as you thought

it might in that long period of time? Has it changed a lot of a little?

Lynn Minnie: I don't pay that much attention other then Howard St. I pay attention more because of my job then having personal interest because of what I do here in Decatur. It's important to know what's going on and we get a lot of people from Kirkwood that come to Decatur. That come to downtown Decatur and to Oakhurst. And a lot of my business contacts over in Oakhurst live in Kirkwood. So only in maybe the last five years have I begun to feel like, oh things really are changing. There seems to be more and more people who are buying a house. More things are happening in Oakhurst too. (Respondent inaudible) and things have just spilled over. I guess I was hoping it would have changed a lot more quickly. I think a lot of the key to it is going to be the business districts, up on Pond and up in there. Sometimes I look at it like Grant Park but, and maybe because Grant Park doesn't have a downtown because there's more around there-it's like…I always feel like Grant Park still has a ways to go. It's a neat place, they've made a lot of progress but it's still (respondent inaudible). But things have definitely changed in Kirkwood. I see more and more houses, and see more building over there. It looks good.

Interviewer 2: You made reference to your job. What percentage of work you do? How do things rolling in Kirkwood and other areas are related to you?

Lynn Minnie: Well I started, I was downtown development in Decatur, right now the community took over so I started work with Oakhurst. Downtown and the College Avenue corridor. And for me Kirkwood is a customer base. I am interested in what's going on over there. Quality of the

downtown. The commercial corridor or it, and the other downtown areas.

Interviewer 2: (Interview inaudible question)

Lynn Minnie: Yeah! For more information call… I am on the web.

Interviewer 1: I think that Decatur is a big draw for people moving in to Kirkwood. The proximity for downtown Decatur, definitely.

Lynn Minnie: Candler Park. Well, you see all the other city neighborhoods people moving back inside Atlanta is helping all of us. I figured that moving to Kirkwood did that for us. Everything that happened in East Lake, that's another whole phenomena. We used to (respondent inaudible) that place, the Oakhurst Country Club, I forgot how much it cost but it's ridiculous. But our kids learned to swim in here, not there is no pool anymore, they took it all out. Before you go there now, they won't even let you in the front gate, it's amazing how the houses over there have changed. I started going to the East Lake YMCA.

Interviewer 1: Wow.

Lynn Minnie: It's amazing that this facility is here and the public can use it. I'd never been there before. I went about six months ago. It's a lot closer for me driving to North side to go to grocery stores. It's really…

Interviewer 1: Where---(tape noise, someone enters) where did you grocery shop when you lived in Kirkwood? Lynn Minnie: When I lived in Kirkwood? Wow…I think we, I probably went back to along Ponce de Leon there was a Big Star and I don't think the Kroger yet, yes, the

Big Star. Because that's where we shopped when we were in the park. I didn't do some much over in Decatur until I came to work here and I got to know it a little but more. I came to work here in 1983.

Interviewer 2: Give us a brief description of the Big Star.

Lynn Minnie: I (respondent inaudible) I don't know.

Interviewer 2: That was right around the corner of Pleasant Groves.

Lynn Minnie: Exactly, exactly.

Interviewer 2: Which has a tough story.

Lynn Minnie: Yes, exactly. But I don't remember, I just remember it being pretty low end and I had to go to a laundry mat when I get back to, over towards Inman Park to do my laundry until my grandmother finally said, " This in nuts, you are not going to a laundry mat anymore." And she bought us a washer and dryer, that was a great thing.

Interviewer 1: Lay out and (interviewer inaudible).

Lynn Minnie: Yeah, so the laundry, I had to do that. But there really wasn't anything in the neighborhood shopping wise. No drugstore, no nothing. You didn't have a car so you pretty much stuff.

Doug Minnie: yeah, I did laundry. Interviewer 2: Well there was a Mrs. Winners and then there was also a Kentucky Fried Chicken here for a while.Lynn Minnie: That's true.

Interviewer 2: For a very brief time. It didn’t succeed at all.

Lynn Minnie: There was a Mrs. Winners, I remember that.

Interviewer 2: What's still there---

Lynn Minnie: When we went very desperate, we'd go there.

Interviewer 2: Ad just right there on the diagonal side, do you remember the Kentucky Fried Chicken?

Lynn Minnie: Yeah, I do.

Interviewer 2: Was all that there when you were here?

Lynn Minnie: I don't remember. From there I barely went to town from that direction. Most of what we did was Candler Park and (respondent inaudible)…

Interviewer 1: Are there any questions we haven't covered already?

Interviewer 2: We've covered most everything. (Long pause)

Lynn Minnie: And then I guess we discovered Decatur when I started working here. We'd go to the Kroger over here, or the A&P at that time.

Interviewer 2: Yeah, I guess that Kroger there at one point or another was A&P.

Lynn Minnie: Right.

Interviewer 2: I remember the big star. It was one of those stores were you couldn't get your cart from the store because they had barriers all around the door, there was no way you could get your cart to the parking lot. (Everyone laugh)

Lynn Minnie: You had to pull your car up. I was there. Heaven forbid that you take a grocery cart. I had forgotten about that. (Long pause)

Interviewer 1: I think that maybe as a final question, sometimes as two questions. We really didn't touch on and maybe it still interest, if you were-if you had, think back to when you moved into Kirkwood. And if you know people having that same economic bracket, everything else relatively speaking to today. Would Kirkwood be a place you recommend to them or not, today?

Lynn Minnie: Oh yes, yes. I think that it's…it's a good investment I think. You'd probably have to do what we did, but some sweat into it to do it. But you got to get your foot in the door. But I also think anybody selling or buying property today is going to make money. I can't imagine that you would lose money on that. I can't imagine anybody would lose money on it's realty going down. But you got to be, what I would tell them, what I would tell anybody, any community is only as good as you choose to make it and you need to get involved and not sit back and let other do the work for you. That's the main concern, because you have a responsibility to pitch in. But heaven forbid if we can make it, anybody can, I'd said yes, 20 years later, I'd say yes. He's still there, he's still smiling.

Interviewer 2: I'd say, yes.

Doug Minnie: One of the people that moved in the early 1980's.

Interviewer 2: Paul.

Lynn Minnie: yeah, Paul been there for a while.

Doug Minnie: Really?

Lynn Minnie: That's right, they did. Interviewer 1: When did Steven Mitaty move it?

Interviewer 2: Steven predates me.

Lynn Minnie: I remember that name too. Where does he live?

Interviewer 2: On Kirkwood Rd, the house with the columns.

Lynn Minnie: We just didn't really know him. I remember the name.

Doug Minnie: Rick he lived there with Paul Mycarthy.

Lynn Minnie: I think by that time I was stuck inside the house. I mean literally I never left. I was stripping old wood all day. Ten years, using a lot of flour.

Interviewer 2: What were you doing?

Lynn Minnie: Keeping it with a lot of flour.

Interviewer 2: The flour kept it from drying out?

Lynn Minnie: It would suck it out. I'd put it on there and let it sit and I'd use it flour with a metal brush and it would grind it up, sweep it up.

Interviewer 1: It was very (interviewer inaudible).

Lynn Minnie: I will never strip anything---Doug Minnie: Methoclorine.

Lynn Minnie: Yeah, we put that on there. Hand stripped the upstairs. A lot of the downstairs but not all of it.

Interviewer 2: Now the downstairs is stripped.

Lynn Minnie: That makes me feel better. (Respondent inaudible)

Interviewer 2: Well, you have to-you are the one to sign, not that you would feel at home at (interviewer inaudible) comfortable at there.

Lynn Minnie: That was one of my favorites stories, I'd forgotten about that story. The neighbors exploding rocks outside of our house and it was Christmas and Gracie was inside in her little walker and we had the Christmas tree, her peeking in the house made me think about that. Christmas tree was in the foyer and Logan came running out-I was out in the front porch and Logan came out behind me and just slammed the door and had the little night latch on and we stood there and watch Gracie and Logan dismantled the Christmas tree thinking, "Oh my gosh, what are they going to do." Dan and Robert from next door, they came over. We were trying to get the door open and Doug said, use a credit card. A credit carded the door but in the meantime they had torn down the whole Christmas tree.

Interviewer 1: You need to tell those people that broke into your house that (tape inaudible, people laughing).

Interviewer 2: I don't know if you were appreciated your old glass windows in that house. One of my memories is the reflection of the Christmas tree in the front windows. You ain't seen good Christmas lights until you've seen those reflections.

Lynn Minnie: Yeah, I'd forgot.

Interviewer 2: They are---

Lynn Minnie: That is one of the things that we missed. And all you’re stained glass ornaments that went on the Christmas tree; those were some of my favorites.

Interviewer 2: You still have them?

Lynn Minnie: Absolutely.

Interviewer 2: Very good. Took it apart very quickly.

Lynn Minnie: That's a story that we tell every year when we put those ornaments on.

Interviewer 1: So anything else you'd like to share then, now or otherwise?

Lynn Minnie: Well my mind. You think you remember all the stuff, but the details. I'll keep looking for that file. I know I have one. There was an article that was done way back when the Atlanta Journal started doing those neighbor sections, there was an article on Kirkwood. I used to have a copy of that, I can't find that one either. But a lot of the history stuff.

Interviewer 2: (Interviewer inaudible question)

Lynn Minnie: It's there. A lot of research stuff. Mr. Kirk Patrick did the development of this. His granddaughter I think lived right up here on South Candler. I'll ask her again but she lives in his house. He lived on South Candler St. The Kirk Patrick house. It's a white and blue house.

Interviewer 1: We're rewinding it.

Lynn Minnie: I am trying to remember if I'd got it or I'll see if she'd gotten that information.

Interviewer 2: Does she know a lot of family history?

Lynn Minnie: I don't know. But I just got introduce to her a couple of years ago. Found out who she was and said to her, "You're grandfather founded Kirkwood." She said, "Yeah, that's right." It was her great-grandfather. So she may have it.

Interviewer 2: A person to add to the list.

Interviewer 1: I am. The list keeps growing.

Lynn Minnie: Well call us any time. We can answer any more questions.

Interviewer 1: Thank you so much for talking. (End of tape)