ISSUE SIX POINT 5 – SPECIAL EDITION #1

THE DILLINGER ESCAPE PLAN

THE GAELIC CLUB 2004 UNSW ROUNDHOUSE 2008

ALL PHOTOS THIS PAGE BY NIC BEZZINA

THE FORUM 2009 THE METRO 2010

Editor’s Letter ... p.5Interview with Ben Weinman ... p.6

Photos ... p.12Interview with Greg Puciato ... p.16

Essential Listening ... p.24

Editor-In-Chief: Sarah Petchell

Photo Editor: Craig Nye

Words: Sarah PetchellPhotos: Craig Nye, Nic Bezzina, Ben Clement

Logo by Joel Birch of Umbrella Creative Studios

Cover Photo: Craig Nye

This page... Photo by Ben Clement

The views and opinions express in No Heroes are not particularly those held by the publishers.

All content is Copyright to No Heroes 2010

For information including contributing, advertising and general comments email: info@noheroesmag.com

www.noheroesmag.com

I can clearly remember the fi rst time I ever heard a Dillinger Escape Plan song. It was ‘Baby’s First Coffi n’ from the Underworld soundtrack and I HATED it! I Greg Puciato would be particularly pleased to hear that I had that strong a reaction to the song on the very fi rst listen. I’m still startled by how much I couldn’t comprehend was I was hearing!

What’s even more shocking is that now, almost eight years later, the Dillinger Escape Plan are probably tied for equal fi rst as my favourite band ever (with Radiohead of all bands...).

So when the opportunity came to interview members of the band following the release of their latest math-metal masterpiece Option Paralysis, I knew I had to do something special.

This Special Edition of No Heroes is the closest that this magazine will ever come to a fanzine, and I feel justifi ed doing this for a num-ber of reasons.

Obviously the fi rst is that they’re my favourite band.

Secondly, without this band Craig Nye (this magazine’s Photo Edi-tor) and I would probably not be friends!

It was a mutual appreciation and lots of long discussions via text message and MySpace com-ments about topics ranging from Greg Puciato versus Justin Tim-

berlake to Greg’s penchant for tuna (‘It’s not a tuna!’) and Ben’s nerdish ways that sowed the seeds of that particular friend-ship.

Thirdly, I have seen the band fi ve times now and never once have they let me down. I’ve never seen another band perform with the same dynamic passion nor the same frantic, frenetic energy.

Basically, I love this band. And anyone that knows me, knows just how true this is.

So this is the result: I did two very extensive interviews (one with guitarist, Ben Weinman, and the other with vocalist, Greg Puciato) which are here in all their full 3000+ word glory. That’s 3000+ words each. Basically, they were asked the same questions but it’s really interesting to see where the answers are the same and where they differ.

Then Nic Bezzina (who is also a massive fan) contributed photos to us from the four times he has shot them, as you can see from the previous page. We also have photos from Ben Clement who shot their show at the Hi Fi in Melbourne back in May.

All in all, I’m so excited about this issue, and I hope you’re all as psyched on it as I am once you’ve read it through!

Cheers,Sarah x

EDITOR’S LETTER

What are you up to today?What are you up to today?“Playing a show, as usual.”

How are the shows going so far?How are the shows going so far?“They’re going great! We’re seven weeks into our Option Paralysis tour and the record came out about a week ago so it’s all pretty exciting.”

What’s the response been like to the What’s the response been like to the new record and to the tracks being new record and to the tracks being played live?played live?“It’s been amazing and, surprisingly, even before the record came out it was really good. The new songs liter-ally feel like we’re playing old songs, right off the bat, so it just tells me that there’s something really special about the energy of this record.”

What exactly does What exactly does Option ParalysisOption Paralysis mean?mean?“Well, literally it means just having so many choices and options that you freeze and you don’t pick any-thing. But to me, it kind of symboli-cally represents the state we’re in just in general, specifi cally in relation to culture and art.

“We have so much easy access to information and music and every-thing else right now that people don’t really know what’s important anymore because they don’t have to work hard for anything.

“That’s becoming kind of a problem and those are the sorts of things that plague us as musicians more than downloading and stuff like that.”

In what ways do they plague you?In what ways do they plague you?“Being a band that’s been around for as long as we have, we started before there was really MySpace, YouTube, Facebook and all of that. So we didn’t really have access to all these promotional tools.

“Eventually these became amazing for bands like us to get our music out to people all around the world. But as we’ve watched the scene grow with these technologies, we’ve had a lot of fans have a lot of access to almost like our blueprint of how to do things, as opposed to being a band because they love it and do it from the heart without the intention of becoming a giant star.

“When we started playing this kind of music, there was no possibility of being in big magazines, being on TV, coming to Australia or anything like that. Those things were just so far beyond our reach and possibili-ties that we didn’t have that in mind when we were writing our music. It just becomes hard for artists to not consider these things when they sur-round you all the time.”

Do you think it’s also kind of created Do you think it’s also kind of created a sort of cookie-cutter approach to a sort of cookie-cutter approach to creating a band?creating a band?“I defi nitely think that’s the case! I don’t think that it’s anyone’s fault exactly, I just think it’s unavoidable. I can’t help but to, after we play every night, go to check YouTube and see what videos have been uploaded.

BEN WEINMAN “Life is not always “Life is not always going to be a crazy going to be a crazy math-metal song! math-metal song!

Sometimes it’s Sometimes it’s ‘Mouth Of Ghosts’ or ‘Mouth Of Ghosts’ or

‘Widower’...“‘Widower’...“

Unfortunately, every single fan out there can do the same without hav-ing to come see us play.

“To me what is exciting about the underground and about extreme music was the element of unpredict-ability that was always happening. You had pop music and you could listen to stuff on the radio and know what part was going to come next and what chorus was going to come next. You would know that when you got to the show that there would be this big production that would be planned out and everything would be choreographed.

“But then, if you really made an ef-fort to fi nd it, there was this thriving underground where if you worked really hard and traded records and

tapes, as well as really making an effort to travel with friends to go see shows in dingy clubs and places that you weren’t exactly always comfort-able in. You were able to fi nd all this other, interesting stuff that was going on and all these interesting sub-cultures.

“So, basically, now that all exists on a computer online and it’s just any-thing but what the underground and what extreme music was supposed to be about.”

If it makes you feel any better If it makes you feel any better though, you guys still do have a though, you guys still do have a reputation for a live show exceeds reputation for a live show exceeds anything that you do on record. I anything that you do on record. I mean, the excitement and the unpre-mean, the excitement and the unpre-dictability of what you do onstage is dictability of what you do onstage is what sets you apart. And you don’t what sets you apart. And you don’t

get that feeling just by watching a get that feeling just by watching a YouTube video.YouTube video.“That’s what we’ve always tried to and continue to do. Obviously our goals and our aspirations have changed a little bit from when we started based on the fact that this is our career and this is what we do.

“We still are trying to always intro-duce that level of unpredictability and excitement and, I hate to say it, but a little bit of danger because the reality is that I never know what’s going to happen next, the crowd doesn’t know what’s going to hap-pen next.

“Every time we play a show, there is some unpredictable element that’s going to throw everything off and will be completely different to everything

we could expect. That’s why I love doing this, still do to this day!”

When I spoke to Greg last week, we When I spoke to Greg last week, we had a chat about the organic-ness had a chat about the organic-ness of being onstage. What do you think of being onstage. What do you think about, if anything, while you’re on-about, if anything, while you’re on-stage?stage?“I don’t know what I think about, but I can tell you that every time I get onstage I’m still nervous! I’m always nervous and I still feel like there’s a nervous energy going on up on that stage.

“There’s always a certain degree of this feeling that everyone’s out there to see us fail and not succeed. Even though they’re our shows and there are kids there to see us, I still have that feeling that we’re playing never exactly in our element and never

exactly comfortable.

“We feel there are people out there who hate what we do. I don’t know if that’s a healthy thing or not, but you can either do one of two things to combat it. You can either crawl up in a shell or just turn that energy around – and that’s what we’ve always done.”

It’s funny that you mention the It’s funny that you mention the nervousness because there is a nervousness because there is a noticeable anxiousness to your noticeable anxiousness to your performance in particular, and I performance in particular, and I guess that’s what allows you to do guess that’s what allows you to do things like climb speaker stacks. I things like climb speaker stacks. I don’t know if that’s a positive thing, don’t know if that’s a positive thing, though...though...“I guess so. It’s really hard because it’s not really something you think about a whole lot. There is some-thing that defi nitely happens as you get ready to go up there. We know that our drummer’s going to hit those sticks and every time, like it or not, that next hour is ours.”

Do you remember what you’ve done Do you remember what you’ve done onstage when you get off or the next onstage when you get off or the next day? Or do you draw a blank?day? Or do you draw a blank?“I mean sometimes there are certain elements of things that stand out. I mean, yesterday Greg jumped onto my head, which hurt really bad and I do remember that. I probably forgot half my childhood after that, but I do remember that moment.

“Every now and again there’s a special moment where a fan does something funny or interesting that is completely out of the ordinary and we all, afterwards, talk about who saw it and who didn’t.

“But for the most part, we’re kind of in our own world. Sometimes I have to even ask Greg if during a certain song the crowd was into it. I mean, I have no idea because I’ll usually be in a completely different world.

“I think in way that that’s allowed us to put on the show that we put on, regardless of the circumstance – whether we’re playing a big festival like Soundwave or if we’re playing in a small club or if we’re playing to three people like we did when we fi rst started. You give it 110 per cent regardless.”

What are the best and worst things What are the best and worst things about the about the Option ParalysisOption Paralysis writing writing and recording experience?and recording experience?“The best and the worst thing are

probably the same thing, which is our producer [Steve Evetts] working us to the bone. The fact is that he will never let us cheat, regardless of how much money is left and how much time is left and what our re-strictions are. He still won’t care!

“He’ll make us do it over and over and over again, even when I’m screaming at him that he can just cut and paste it. I mean it’s the fourteenth guitar track so no one is going to know the difference! But at the end of the day it’s really reward-ing too.”

I guess it would really help you with I guess it would really help you with your live show as well. Once he’s got your live show as well. Once he’s got you playing things 14 or 15 times you playing things 14 or 15 times you would really know the track well you would really know the track well by that point in time.by that point in time.

“Yeah, I mean we defi nitely all come out of the studio better players, that’s for sure.”

Is there anything in particular that Is there anything in particular that you drew inspiration from while you you drew inspiration from while you were writing the album this time were writing the album this time around?around?“There was nothing in particular. I know that I was listening to a lot of old thrash and metal stuff that I had grown up on a lot and that I hadn’t really listened to in a long time. Things like Napalm Death, Carcass, Entombed, old Sepultura, Slayer, Metallica – things that just had an energy and a vibe that just doesn’t exist as much anymore.

“So, a lot of people have quoted me as saying that this is our most metal record and have then been really

surprised by the amount of melody and things like that going on, on the record. But the truth is that that stuff was really inspiring, but not in the way that we were going to write a re-cord that sounded exactly like that.”

One of the things that I’ve sort of One of the things that I’ve sort of noticed about noticed about Option ParalysisOption Paralysis is is that is seems like a sort of middle-that is seems like a sort of middle-ground between ground between Miss MachineMiss Machine and and Ire WorksIre Works. I don’t mean that in a bad . I don’t mean that in a bad way). It just seems like you’ve found way). It just seems like you’ve found a happy medium between the two.a happy medium between the two.“I think that, for me, what I’m most proud of is that we’ve gotten bet-ter at doing what we do, what we’re known for, and incorporating new things in a way that’s a little more seamless and a little more cohesive.

“The truth is that we’ve always just

tried to be better and better song-writers, writing music that’s honest and real. So I think that when people and critics say to me that it sounds more cohesive or it fl ows well, what that represents to me is that we’re getting better at our craft.

And better at incorporating more And better at incorporating more elements into it as well. I guess that elements into it as well. I guess that constantly writing that same, typical constantly writing that same, typical Dillinger style song over and over is Dillinger style song over and over is going to eventually get boring.going to eventually get boring.“Oh, absolutely! We couldn’t do this as a career and present it honestly if we kept writing the same song over and over. The truth is that I don’t think that any band can honestly do that because life is just not like that.

“Life is ups and downs. Life is not always going to be an extreme, crazy

math-metal song! Sometimes it’s ‘Mouth Of Ghosts’ or ‘Widower’. That’s just us trying to write music that means something to us.”

Every band sort of progresses to-Every band sort of progresses to-wards what they feel is the way they wards what they feel is the way they ultimately want to sound like, and I ultimately want to sound like, and I guess if you don’t progress there’s guess if you don’t progress there’s no point doing it. Do you feel like this no point doing it. Do you feel like this is the closest you’ve come to the ul-is the closest you’ve come to the ul-timate Dillinger sound or the closest timate Dillinger sound or the closest you’ve come to being the best band you’ve come to being the best band you can be?you can be?“I mean, we say it every record and I’ll say it again, but this record repre-sents the best Dillinger that you can get. I defi nitely feel the most happy with this record as a whole, regard-less of whether it’s true or not that it is our best.

“I feel that this record is not only our best songwriting, but I feel happy with every aspect with it the most and I’ve felt that way since we came out of the studio. That’s pretty hard for someone like me to say.”

You’ve got a new drummer with Billy You’ve got a new drummer with Billy Rymer for this album and I remem-Rymer for this album and I remem-ber seeing him play with you guys at ber seeing him play with you guys at the Soundwave Sideshows and being the Soundwave Sideshows and being blown away by how quickly he had blown away by how quickly he had picked up these ridiculous drum riffs picked up these ridiculous drum riffs that he is expected to play!that he is expected to play!“Yeah, he’s amazing and we’re really excited. We’re a really good team right now.”

What did Billy bring to the sessions What did Billy bring to the sessions that was maybe a bit different to that was maybe a bit different to what Chris or Gil had brought previ-what Chris or Gil had brought previ-ously?ously?“I think the main thing was an in-nocence, like an appreciation for his position. He also brought an energy that was both simultaneously con-fi dent and nervous and paranoid at the same time because of the shoes that he had to fi ll and his personality in general.

“That’s the main thing. I mean, obvi-ously he brought technical ability but there’s just this willingness to both rise to occasion and just do what’s best for the whole, which is why we’re so happy.”

You just mentioned then that Billy You just mentioned then that Billy brought a kind of nervousness to brought a kind of nervousness to playing with you guys. Does it spin playing with you guys. Does it spin you out that people and fans hold you out that people and fans hold you guys in that kind of high es-you guys in that kind of high es-teem?teem?

“It really does, because we’re not really that big a band. It’s not like we’re Slipknot or have sold millions of records. But the fact that people that are true fans are such die-hard fans respect us so much and then that people in big bands also respect what we do regardless that we’re not a giant, money-making machine, that means a lot.

“It means that we’re doing some-thing right if fans and people we respect in the industry hold us in high regard. We defi nitely don’t take it for granted.”

I have to ask about the decision to I have to ask about the decision to not re-sign with Relapse and to go not re-sign with Relapse and to go out on your own. Do you still feel like out on your own. Do you still feel like that was the best decision you guys that was the best decision you guys could make?could make?“Yeah, we honestly haven’t made a whole lot of decisions about our fu-ture other than we just want to have more fl exibility and control over what we do. That’s it. The decision not to sign a traditional record deal was just that.

“We really knew the state of the in-dustry and the way that we had done things in the past that we could only enhance our experience in this band by taking on more control on a busi-ness front so that we can be just as creative in how we produce our mu-sic and how we present it people.”

How important is it for you guys to How important is it for you guys to maintain your autonomy over your maintain your autonomy over your business affairs and your music? Es-business affairs and your music? Es-pecially at this point in your careers.pecially at this point in your careers.“It is important, and part of it is out of choice while part of it’s out of ne-

cessity. The truth is that if you want to talk straight up numbers, dollars and cents, unless there’s someone out there that’s going to really make us a giant band, nobody getting involved is worth it.

“There’s nobody out there in this day and age that could do that much for you, more than you could do for yourself, unless they really are going to, like I said, increase your income by so much that the amount of per-centage they take and the amount of money they lose by not being as frugal as you would be with your own affairs, is worth it.

“On top of that, if they’re dealing with a band like us, that person is going to have to do that while still allowing us to maintain a certain amount of artistic freedom. So, for us it just doesn’t make sense at the point to go that route. Keeping con-trol over things and just doing things our way is not only more satisfying, but it’s allowing us to make a living and survive as well.”

What’s the best thing, for you, about What’s the best thing, for you, about touring?touring?“Honestly, for me the best thing about touring is the fact that you get to get home. It’s such an amazing thing to be living this lifestyle and it’s also an amazing thing to be able to appreciate what you have at home.

“Most people live their whole days for two days a week and maybe a two week vacation, and most people will live for those two days where they’re probably paying bills or fi xing the shingles on their house and then

a two week vacation.

“For us, that’s our life. There is no weekend and there is no vacation. We just do what we love all the time, and occasionally we really, really ap-preciate that two weeks or two days a week that we’re home. And that’s a beautiful thing.”

It’s interesting that you say the best It’s interesting that you say the best thing about touring is coming home, thing about touring is coming home, because it leads into the question because it leads into the question as to whether you prefer writing or as to whether you prefer writing or touring. Everyone inevitably says touring. Everyone inevitably says touring…touring…“There is a thing where people who have been on tour for a while start to feel a little bit creatively restricted, because you’re here playing old songs and almost kind of going through almost like a performing circus while you’re on tour.

“But, again that’s another great thing about touring: you can sit at home after writing a record for months or years and never pick up a guitar, but after being on tour for a couple of weeks or a couple of months you do start to feel the itch to create.

“It’s almost like part of the process. You need to have touring to writing to recording and doing it all over again as a process, because it’s all important and one always enables the other.”

I guess fi guratively more than liter-I guess fi guratively more than liter-ally, but what’s next for you guys? Is ally, but what’s next for you guys? Is there much more that you’ve got left there much more that you’ve got left to cross off the Dillinger to do list?to cross off the Dillinger to do list?“I don’t know. After every record we all come out exhausted and feeling

like we couldn’t write another record. Then, like I said, we go out on tour and start to feel creative again.

“We don’t really think that far in ad-vance. We usually pretty much take it day by day and that’s what we’ve been doing for years! But we defi nite-ly, overall, probably feel at any given time that we know that somewhere in our heart that next year we’ll be doing it all over again.

“Even though we know that the real-ity is that it could all end tomorrow, we also know that two years from now, if someone asked us what we were doing, this would probably be it.”

How much longer do you plan on How much longer do you plan on keeping this up? And I don’t just keeping this up? And I don’t just mean Dillinger, I mean creating mu-mean Dillinger, I mean creating mu-sic in general.sic in general.“I can’t see an end to it at this point, and for many years, especially lead-ing up to my 30’s, it was something I questioned a lot and I think we all did. But now that we have kind of crossed the hump and we’re doing this to the extent that we’re a career band – this is what we do.

“We recently collaborated with someone named Mike Garson [who contributes piano parts on ‘Widower’ and ‘I Wouldn’t If You Didn’t’] who is in his late 60’s and is still play-ing professionally, even playing on Dillinger Escape Plan records. See-ing his enthusiasm and excitement to collaborate made us realise that we could do this as long as we want, really. At least to some degree.”

GREG PUCIATO“If I wanted to spend an entire “If I wanted to spend an entire show sitting in a rocking chair show sitting in a rocking chair

and that was legitimately and that was legitimately what I wanted to do, that to what I wanted to do, that to

me would be more punk rock me would be more punk rock than running around smash-than running around smash-ing shit up, if the smashing ing shit up, if the smashing

was pre-meditated...”was pre-meditated...”

“What time is it over there?”

It’s 10:00am on a Friday morning.It’s 10:00am on a Friday morning.“Oh shit! That’s a little early. I apolo-gise for that because sleeping is probably one of my all-time, favourite things to do!”

Even more than playing in the band?Even more than playing in the band?“It depends what of the day it is, you know. If it’s before nighttime, then I would rather be asleep. I go to bed at like eight in the morning and wake up at like 3:30pm.”

I’ve noticed that from your MySpace I’ve noticed that from your MySpace blog posts.blog posts.“Yeah, yeah, exactly! At seven in the morning in when I’m most creative and amazing stuff happens! The point is that I can’t do anything in the daytime. I can only do business shit during the day, like that side works during the day, but I can’t be creative when the sun is up at all.

“You know what I think it is? I think that in your brain something hap-pens that makes, at least for me, drawing weird connections and alliterations and allusions to things that you wouldn’t normally do dur-ing the daytime, a whole lot easier. At like two in the morning, your brain works better in that more abstract way. There’s got to be some science behind it.”

So start with the serious stuff, what So start with the serious stuff, what exactly does exactly does Option ParalysisOption Paralysis mean mean to you?to you?“Option paralysis is a term that means that state where you have so many choices that you end up mak-ing none. It was actually coined in a

book written like 40 years ago called Generation X, and it’s something that I feel is very pertinent to what’s going on around us, right now in the world.

“I mean, we’ve had obviously mas-sive technological advance and innovation over the last hundred years. I don’t think that’s a bad thing – I’m not saying in any way, shape or phone that technology is bad be-cause I love cell phones, I love the in-ternet and I love everything that has made our lives much, much easier and more convenient.

“But at the same time, I think that because of the constant bombard-ment from marketing and technol-ogy allowing you to be constantly plugged in, there needs to be more of a conscious effort to retain the core of the human experience. That’s the fi ve senses and human interaction and going out and actu-ally experiencing things.

“It becomes much harder now to create good art because everything is so convenient. You don’t have to leave your bedroom: you can watch bands on YouTube, you can make music on your computer. Everything you want to, you can basically do now, whereas 10 or 20 years ago you would have to get on a train and go to the city to go see a band play. You would meet up with your friends, play music too loud in a garage on a hot afternoon.

“It’s more of an observation of the convenience of the way things have become.”

You raise the point about the con-You raise the point about the con-trast between 10 years ago and trast between 10 years ago and now. You’ve been in the band for now. You’ve been in the band for nine years, so what have you noticed nine years, so what have you noticed change about music in that time?change about music in that time?“I feel like that time period was the tail end of a long-standing thing as far as overall music-making goes. I mean, in the time that we’ve been a band so many sub-genres have eaten themselves into the ground. There’s so much emphasis on the end result that isn’t music – the music isn’t considered the end result anymore.

“Music is almost like a part of how to get from here to there, and for us and for people before music was always the point. You would get together with your friends and write awesome songs.

“At night, you would go out and see shows and be inspired by those bands, then take everything that you were experiencing in your life and channel it into your music. And then, after you got your shit together and actually managed to sound like a band and have cool songs with something to say, then you would start to play shows and actually be a band.

“Now, you have a bunch of kids together that decide to start a band. The fi rst thing they do is come up with a name and create a MySpace page and take pictures of them-selves and choose their infl uences. And this is all before they’ve even written a song! Then they’ll literally put up a MySpace page with pictures and a band name, start collecting

friends and it will say, ‘Music coming soon!’ It’s like, what do you mean ‘Music coming soon’? They’re not even a fucking band yet because you haven’t written any songs.

“All the things that we had to go through are reversed. The attention has been taken off of the music itself and has been put more onto some overall concept of being in a band rather than actually doing it!”

One thing I always ask bands is how One thing I always ask bands is how the internet helped them get a foot-the internet helped them get a foot-hold, but you guys would have been hold, but you guys would have been established as a band before the established as a band before the big internet explosion actually hap-big internet explosion actually hap-pened so I imagine your answer to pened so I imagine your answer to the question, ‘How has the internet the question, ‘How has the internet helped Dillinger out?’ would be a lot helped Dillinger out?’ would be a lot different to those bands?different to those bands?“That’s a really polite way of saying that we’re really fucking old, by the way!

“Even though the internet has been really instrumental for us, I’m really glad that we were around before the explosion, so to speak. It’s the same thing as when you hear producers making records on Pro Tools and they make them digitally. I think the best producers are the ones that learned what to do before Pro Tools and now use Pro Tools because it’s a tool for them. A lot of the guys that started producing in the last few years are producing music that they see on a screen rather than listening to it.

“For us, it’s a similar thing. We were already kicking ass and we were already being a band before this.

We didn’t have all these crazy tools like YouTube, Facebook, MySpace, Twitter. To us, those things are something that’s a bonus. It’s a neat way for us to have control over con-necting with our fans and doing cool stuff for them that a record company couldn’t do because it would be too impersonal.

“I love it! I love the ability to cut through the middle-man and talk directly to our fans. But at the same time, we use that as a tool to supple-ment the point of our band, which is still coming to see us play and still getting together and writing good songs together. There’s never been a point in time where we’ve thought to ourselves that we need to get as many MySpace or Facebook friends as possible.

“We have a huge internet presence, I think, because we’ve approached it the right way. It’s defi nitely been instrumental for us but, at the end of the day, if you get everybody’s attention then once you have it have nothing to say, or worse, nothing of substance to say, you’re band is only going to operate on a circus level and you’ll lose that attention anyway. You have to build the core up before you can start using these tools.”

Are you guys planning on doing the Are you guys planning on doing the limited edition t-shirts for this al-limited edition t-shirts for this al-bum?bum?“Yeah, we will. That’s something that we did ourselves and it really, honestly, took a lot of time to do. It’s very involving because it’s not like we’re sitting at the end of the day and someone sends us a design and

we sign off on it and someone else does it all.

“We were involved in the inception of every design, we printed out all the envelopes, we took all the packages to the post offi ce – we did every, single thing ourselves asides from actually sewing the t-shirts. Right now having just put out the new record, being on tour and all that shit means that maybe halfway through the album cycle we’ll do that.”

The fact that you did everything The fact that you did everything yourselves with the t-shirts links in yourselves with the t-shirts links in with your decision not to resign with with your decision not to resign with Relapse, so the question then is Relapse, so the question then is how important is it for you guys to do how important is it for you guys to do everything yourselves and have as everything yourselves and have as much control as possible over what much control as possible over what you do?you do?“It’s extremely important. I feel like, just from an industry standpoint (even if there is an industry anymore) there are two major things you need to have in any situation and during any tumultuous time. The best things that you can be to survive are fl exible and self-reliant.

“The more people you rely and the more people you need for your exis-tence, the worse off you’re going to be because people are going to fall by the wayside left and right. And if you’re not fl exible enough to roll with the changes when the changes come through, then you’re going to die too.

“We recognised that, from a busi-ness standpoint, pretty early on. It just doesn’t make sense for us to have somebody else super involved

and it doesn’t make sense for us to sign traditional contracts where we’re locked in for three records to a business model that probably won’t even be the same three months from now.

“From a creative standpoint it’s also extremely important, because the bigger we get the easier it is to kind of make little compromises here and there, when someone says things might be easier whether it is the best thing for the band or the music or not.

“But for us, this is what we care about. We’re not in a band to go on tour and party or to have some other non-intrinsic benefi t. We’re in a band because we love doing this – we love what we’re doing, we love The Dill-inger Escape Plan, it means some-thing to us. It’s not just a hobby that we had when we were young and in our twenties, and that we’re going to have another ‘real job’ when we get old.

“This is not just what we do, this is who we are, so to us doing all this extra stuff and being autonomous means we have less time in the day for our personal lives, but like I said, this is our lives.”

What were the best and worst things What were the best and worst things about the about the Option ParalysisOption Paralysis writing writing and recording processes for you?and recording processes for you?“Well for me, personally, the worst thing for me is a double-edged sword. The writing process takes a lot out of you. It’s emotional and it’s draining because you’re immersed in it all day long, trying to write lyrics

or whatever. You’re a writer, so you know what I mean. Sometimes you can write for hours and hours and hours before you even start to chip away at the shell of something that might be good. So, it’s very draining from that standpoint.

“But that’s also the best part of it, because you end up digging into your subconscious and getting something good out that you wouldn’t have got-ten if you hadn’t taken that time.”

I know everyone says it about their I know everyone says it about their most recent record, but do you hon-most recent record, but do you hon-estly feel that this is the best work estly feel that this is the best work you guys have done?you guys have done?“You know what, I really hate talking like that because to me it sounds like sport. We’re not really competing with ourselves and we’re not trying

to make a better version of Ire Works or Miss Machine. This is a differ-ent band than the band three years ago, not because we have different members, but because we are differ-ent people in our lives. So to me, the most important thing is to make the best, most honest record you can make.

“If you make the most honest record, then you’re not making the better re-cord, because they’re totally different records. I feel that this is the most honest record we’ve ever made. It’s the record where we kind of got out of our own way the most and weren’t really thinking about what other people would think or whether or not we should do this or go in this direc-tion. We just pretty much said fuck it, we’re 30, we don’t care! We’ll do

what we want.”To me it’s a really interesting al-To me it’s a really interesting al-bum in the sense that it’s a middle bum in the sense that it’s a middle ground between ground between Miss MachineMiss Machine and and Ire WorksIre Works. I mean, those two albums . I mean, those two albums stand as kind of the two opposing stand as kind of the two opposing ends of the Dillinger spectrum, and ends of the Dillinger spectrum, and then Option Paralysis kind of stands then Option Paralysis kind of stands as an amalgamation of the two. Is as an amalgamation of the two. Is that something you agree with?that something you agree with?“That’s something that I’ve been hearing more of, but it’s not some-thing that we were aware of when we were writing the album. I just think that we’ve gotten better at trying to merge all our infl uences together without having to split them.

“On Ire Works and Miss Machine we didn’t know how to do things like electronics without having to do a whole separate song. We didn’t know how to write melodies and hooks without writing a pop song. We didn’t really understand, be-cause we’re not from that world. We know how to write a crazy, fast, obnoxious, Dillinger song because that’s what we do. That might seem diffi cult to most people, but for us that’s second nature.

“So working with all these other outside infl uences, those were the things that were hard for us and the only way for us to be good at them was to compartmentalise them on those two records.

“But I do think that on this record, now that I think about it, we took a lot of the abstract, compartmental-ised stuff, like the pop and electronic songs on Ire Works, and moved them into the songwriting that Miss Ma-

chine had.”I’ve got a question that’s particu-I’ve got a question that’s particu-larly pertinent to you, about your larly pertinent to you, about your vocals. This time around there’s a lot vocals. This time around there’s a lot more variation in what you do with more variation in what you do with your voice – a lot more clean, sung your voice – a lot more clean, sung parts rather than just screaming. parts rather than just screaming. How much more fun is it for you to How much more fun is it for you to change things up and perform these change things up and perform these different vocal parts?different vocal parts?“It’s much more gratifying because I don’t walk around screaming. I mean, I love singing! I’ll go to kara-oke bars for hours and hours on end. Screaming is pretty much one emo-tion pushed as far as you can go and I started to realise a few records ago, that if you start on 10 and then you stay on 10, there’s nowhere for you to go. You can’t go to 11! The thing is that then if you drop down to six, it’s underwhelming because people are

numbed at 10 so the six bums you out.

“You have to keep your average around like a seven so that if you choose to scream it goes up to 10 and if you choose to go a falsetto vocal and drop down to three, it’s all still interesting. You don’t numb people.

“For me as a performer, it’s way more gratifying because I feel like I’m a good singer and I hate to feel like everyone sees The Dillinger Es-cape Plan as just some guy running around on stage screaming his balls off and breaking things.”

Speaking of breaking things, where Speaking of breaking things, where did you fi nd that gem of a new drum-did you fi nd that gem of a new drum-mer in Billy Rymer?mer in Billy Rymer?

“He’s a freak! We totally lucked out with him. We started 2007 with Chris Pennie, 2008 with Gil Sharone and then 2009 with no drummer. We have gone through three really phenomenal drummers in the past three years.

“But Billy really is on another level. We had reached out to a bunch of really famous, known drummers and had people reaching out to us who were very known and auditioning. They were all people that could play the songs, but no one had the total package – they were missing the spark.

“There’s something about session players and studio players that are really good technically, but they just don’t have any soul and that’s kind

of why they end up being session players. They don’t have any fi re of their own to really create something.

“Billy came at the last possible sec-ond – we already had a guy in place that could do the whole set and we were pretty ready to move forward, even though he wasn’t perfect because we fi gured we could make him the right guy down the line. Then Billy came recommended to us by a mutual acquaintance and I didn’t even want to audition him because we had already spent too much fuck-ing time auditioning drummers and we already have a guy that can play the songs, even though he might not be perfect.

“Ben was actually adamant that we see this kid because he saw a video

of him and recognised that he had IT. I thought we were wasting our time, but then after fi ve minutes of playing with Billy we knew that he was the guy. His mess-ups were more impressive than when the other guys got it right just because he was playing with so much fi re. He’s just such an anxious, stressful kid and he just channels that into his playing, which is perfect for us because it just makes everything feel more explosive!”

Does having a new member in the Does having a new member in the band really revitalise things that band really revitalise things that much?much?“If they’re the right member, yeah, because it’s like pruning a tree. I don’t count losing members as a bad thing. Unless they got injured because that’s a different thing,

we lose members because they don’t want to be there anymore or because we don’t want them to be there anymore. They’re some sort of deadweight.

“This lifestyle really grinds people down really quickly, the music grinds people down and playing this music every night is just physically and emotionally demanding. It crushes your personal life completely!

“You just have to be the right type of person to do this all the time. So when someone is deadweight you have to get rid of them or they be-come a cancer. They’ll complain con-stantly and become really stressed and negative, and it infl uences other people.

“Having Billy involved, I don’t want to keep getting rid of deadweight. Right now I feel like we have the right mix of people to keep this going on.”

You spoke about the lifestyle. Is it You spoke about the lifestyle. Is it tougher on the personal life or the tougher on the personal life or the creative aspect of the band? Where creative aspect of the band? Where does it impact the most?does it impact the most?“It’s more tough on a personal level. It’s not live we’ve ever creatively had issues with people. It’s just that, personally, people get beat down by this lifestyle and they realise that it’s more than they can handle. That’s honestly the problem.”

Just to talk about touring for a bit, Just to talk about touring for a bit, and this goes back to seeing you and this goes back to seeing you throw road cases from the tops throw road cases from the tops of massive speaker stacks at the of massive speaker stacks at the Roundhouse a few years ago, but Roundhouse a few years ago, but what (if anything) goes on in your what (if anything) goes on in your head when you’re on that stage?head when you’re on that stage?“Absolutely nothing and that’s the point! If you start to think about any-thing, and that’s in any part of the creative process whether a song or a moment in a show, if you’re thinking at all, it’s already corrupted and it’s already not pure.

“At random times while we’re play-ing, I’ll catch myself thinking about something really quickly, like if I pick up a mike stand and for one second think about throwing it, it totally kills the mood and I just put the mike stand down and walk away. It has to be a pure expression otherwise it becomes theatre and contrived.

“I mean, if there was a show and I wanted to spend that entire show sit-ting in a rocking chair and that was

legitimately what I wanted to do, that to me would be more punk rock than running around smashing shit up, if the smashing was pre-meditated.”That’s awesome! I really hope I do That’s awesome! I really hope I do get to see you sitting in a rocking get to see you sitting in a rocking chair, while performing here in Syd-chair, while performing here in Syd-ney!ney!“It’s getting to that point. I’ve got so many injuries just from the last few weeks, so that would probably come sooner rather than later. But it would probably bum people out though…”

How much of a show can you re-How much of a show can you re-member after the fact?member after the fact?“Almost nothing, honestly. Like when we did that stuff with Nine Inch Nails in Australia last year, I didn’t remem-ber it. That’s one of the things that I like the most about YouTube, is that everything is documented, so that after that Nine Inch Nails perfor-mance was done I could look at it on YouTube and remember.

“In fact, my memory of that show is the YouTube video not the ac-tual performance. If you’re in the right moment and mindset, you shouldn’t be in any state to remem-ber it because it should just be pure expression. I can remember before the show and I can remember after the show, but the actual show is just transcendental.”

So what’s next for you guys? I mean, So what’s next for you guys? I mean, in the grand scheme of things, how in the grand scheme of things, how much more do you feel there’s left much more do you feel there’s left for Dillinger to achieve?for Dillinger to achieve?“I guess it’s not so much of a game plan as it is just knowing when to stop. For me, I feel like we’re still really excited to play with one an-

other. We have a lot creatively that we’re still fi guring out individually and together. We’re still stimulated by playing with one another. Like if Billy does something cool or Ben does something interesting or brings something new to the table, it’s not boring to me yet.

“I think the key is not to really chart your progress so much as it is to know when it’s not there anymore. I don’t ever want to put something out because I feel that the Dillinger Es-cape Plan is a brand or like a career.

“Obviously it is our careers now, but it’s not the same as being a banker or a lawyer or something like that because it isn’t something that we have to do. Then the second that art becomes something that you have to do commercially, it’s dangerous because it’s hard for people to get out of it.

“So what it will be is one day we will be writing and then one or two songs in we’re going to realise that we’ve done all this before and that there’s no real point in doing this. Like I said, if it starts to feel like theatre or if I don’t feel like I have the energy to go in this direction creatively any-more, I don’t want to write this music and scream and run around, I just want to stop at that point.

“I can’t imagine anything more mis-erable than being on tour for a year and a half playing songs every night that you don’t believe or performing when your heart isn’t really in it. That would be horrible!”

“Screaming is pretty much one “Screaming is pretty much one emotion pushed as far as you emotion pushed as far as you

can go and I started to realise a can go and I started to realise a few records ago, that if you start few records ago, that if you start on 10 and then you stay on 10, on 10 and then you stay on 10,

there’s nowhere for you to go. You there’s nowhere for you to go. You can’t go to 11!”can’t go to 11!”

ESSENTIAL LISTENING

UNDER THE RUNNING BOARD EPUNDER THE RUNNING BOARD EP(1998) RELAPSE(1998) RELAPSE

This is the three-song EP that started the whole This is the three-song EP that started the whole mythology of the Dillinger Escape Plan. mythology of the Dillinger Escape Plan. Under The Under The Running BoardRunning Board belies the history prior to this that belies the history prior to this that is shrouded in mystery.is shrouded in mystery.

What it does establish, however, is everything What it does establish, however, is everything we’ve come to expect of a Dillinger album to this we’ve come to expect of a Dillinger album to this day, almost 12 years on!day, almost 12 years on!

Starting with ‘The Mullet Burden’, this song show-Starting with ‘The Mullet Burden’, this song show-cases the jaw-dropping energy and aggression cases the jaw-dropping energy and aggression that accompanies everything the band do.that accompanies everything the band do.

‘Sandbox Magician’ introduces the melodic, ‘Sandbox Magician’ introduces the melodic, catchy riffs that make some tracks more palatable catchy riffs that make some tracks more palatable to the casual listener, as well as the jazzy break-to the casual listener, as well as the jazzy break-downs that have become Dillinger’s trademark.downs that have become Dillinger’s trademark.

Then there is ‘Abe The Cop’. The longest song on Then there is ‘Abe The Cop’. The longest song on the EP (at 3:12). With heart-attack inducing drum-the EP (at 3:12). With heart-attack inducing drum-ming, exceptional guitar work and powerful vocals ming, exceptional guitar work and powerful vocals accompanied by great lyrics, it’s no wonder that accompanied by great lyrics, it’s no wonder that this track still occasionally features on set lists for this track still occasionally features on set lists for Dillinger shows even today.Dillinger shows even today.

CALCULATING INFINITYCALCULATING INFINITY(1999) RELAPSE(1999) RELAPSE

If you were shocked into submission but the If you were shocked into submission but the Under The Running Board EPUnder The Running Board EP, the prepare to fi nd , the prepare to fi nd your brains on the wall on the other side of the your brains on the wall on the other side of the room after you here Dillinger’s debut full-length, room after you here Dillinger’s debut full-length, Calculating Infi nityCalculating Infi nity.

Everything is just more explosive and more bril-Everything is just more explosive and more bril-liant, which just goes to show that this is a band liant, which just goes to show that this is a band bent on progression, not just in terms of sound, bent on progression, not just in terms of sound, but also in terms of energy, atmosphere and but also in terms of energy, atmosphere and sheer technical musicianship. It also sees the sheer technical musicianship. It also sees the band moving towards a type of rhythmic melody band moving towards a type of rhythmic melody that gets a little lots in the aggression of the that gets a little lots in the aggression of the vocals and the frenetic guitar-playing. The main vocals and the frenetic guitar-playing. The main point is that it does start throwing hints at what is point is that it does start throwing hints at what is to come.to come.

Then there is the diversity of the riffi ng. A riff will Then there is the diversity of the riffi ng. A riff will be repeated for a few passages before moving be repeated for a few passages before moving onto something else. And the whole time it is onto something else. And the whole time it is inhumanly precise while ranging from metal-riffi ng inhumanly precise while ranging from metal-riffi ng to brief jazzy interludes. The drumming demon-to brief jazzy interludes. The drumming demon-strates the same diversity, while Dimitri’s vocals strates the same diversity, while Dimitri’s vocals are raw, disturbing and just downright creepy. are raw, disturbing and just downright creepy.

IRONY IS A DEAD SCENE EPIRONY IS A DEAD SCENE EP(2002) EPITAPH(2002) EPITAPH

The main thing that you need to know about this The main thing that you need to know about this EP is that the vocals were performed by none EP is that the vocals were performed by none other than Mr Mike Patton (which is where the other than Mr Mike Patton (which is where the Patton worship the band is known for comes to Patton worship the band is known for comes to full fruition). Following the departure of Dimitri full fruition). Following the departure of Dimitri Minakakis, the band were between vocalists set-Minakakis, the band were between vocalists set-ting the stage for this four-song collaboration.ting the stage for this four-song collaboration.

While the result is not the band’s best work, in my While the result is not the band’s best work, in my opinion, it does bear close contemplation. After opinion, it does bear close contemplation. After all, this is Dillinger and Mike Patton we’re talking all, this is Dillinger and Mike Patton we’re talking about! The music is tight and the musicianship about! The music is tight and the musicianship is the fi rst-rate quality to be expected from both is the fi rst-rate quality to be expected from both parties. parties.

Whether it is Patton’s involvement or not, this is Whether it is Patton’s involvement or not, this is the fi rst hint we get of the band’s movement to-the fi rst hint we get of the band’s movement to-wards incorporating conventional song structures wards incorporating conventional song structures with the Dillinger sound. There is more repetition with the Dillinger sound. There is more repetition and more of a verse-chorus structure. and more of a verse-chorus structure.

However the EP still retains the dischordant trade-However the EP still retains the dischordant trade-marks of the Dillinger style, especially on ‘When marks of the Dillinger style, especially on ‘When Good Dogs Do Bad Things’ (easily the best track).Good Dogs Do Bad Things’ (easily the best track).

MISS MACHINEMISS MACHINE(2004) RELAPSE(2004) RELAPSE

This was the fi rst complete album that I heard and This was the fi rst complete album that I heard and I haven’t looked back since! I haven’t looked back since! Miss MachineMiss Machine intro- intro-duces Greg Puciato on vocals and sees the band duces Greg Puciato on vocals and sees the band starting to infuse wider infl uences into their music starting to infuse wider infl uences into their music – for example, the melodic ‘Unretrofi ed’ and the – for example, the melodic ‘Unretrofi ed’ and the jazz breakdown in ‘Setting Fire To Sleeping Gi-jazz breakdown in ‘Setting Fire To Sleeping Gi-ants’. ants’.

With fi ve years between this and With fi ve years between this and Calculating Infi n-Calculating Infi n-ityity it’s an understatement to say that this was it’s an understatement to say that this was “highly anticipated”. But it was worth the wait “highly anticipated”. But it was worth the wait as with it brought extensive critical acclaim and as with it brought extensive critical acclaim and melted so many faces with the explosive live show melted so many faces with the explosive live show that accompanied it.that accompanied it.

From the explosive intro of ‘Panasonic Youth’ to From the explosive intro of ‘Panasonic Youth’ to the closing moments of ‘The Perfect Design’, the closing moments of ‘The Perfect Design’, Miss Miss MachineMachine established itself as the blueprint for the established itself as the blueprint for the Dillinger that would follow – the perfect blend of Dillinger that would follow – the perfect blend of raucous, nervous, spastic and ridiculously techni-raucous, nervous, spastic and ridiculously techni-cal energy, with experimentation in melody and cal energy, with experimentation in melody and electronic touches added on for good measure.electronic touches added on for good measure.

Of them all, this is my favourite album!Of them all, this is my favourite album!

IRE WORKSIRE WORKS(2007) RELAPSE(2007) RELAPSE

If you skipped the interviews and came straight to If you skipped the interviews and came straight to this page, you should probably go back and read this page, you should probably go back and read them to understand just how important them to understand just how important Ire WorksIre Works actually is to the Dillinger discography. actually is to the Dillinger discography.

Probably their album with the broadest appeal, Probably their album with the broadest appeal, it saw the band experimenting with conventional it saw the band experimenting with conventional pop song structures on tracks like ‘Milk Lizard’ pop song structures on tracks like ‘Milk Lizard’ and ‘Black Bubblegum’ while also exploring the and ‘Black Bubblegum’ while also exploring the lengths electronic music could enhance their lengths electronic music could enhance their music on ‘When Acting As A Particle’ and ‘When music on ‘When Acting As A Particle’ and ‘When Acting As A Wave’.Acting As A Wave’.

While not the most cohesive album as a whole, While not the most cohesive album as a whole, the individual tracks are incredible. ‘Mouth Of the individual tracks are incredible. ‘Mouth Of Ghosts’ and ‘Dead As History’ stand as two of the Ghosts’ and ‘Dead As History’ stand as two of the most incredible songs the band has ever written, most incredible songs the band has ever written, and you only need to see them perform ‘Mouth Of and you only need to see them perform ‘Mouth Of Ghosts’ live to realise this!Ghosts’ live to realise this!

For the traditional Dillinger fan, there is plenty For the traditional Dillinger fan, there is plenty here for you as well – album opener ‘Fix Your here for you as well – album opener ‘Fix Your Face’ will literally rip your face off and ‘Party Face’ will literally rip your face off and ‘Party Smasher’ won’t leave a stick of furniture whole.Smasher’ won’t leave a stick of furniture whole.

OPTION PARALYSISOPTION PARALYSIS(2010) PARTY SMASHER/SEASON OF MIST(2010) PARTY SMASHER/SEASON OF MIST

If the level of progression from If the level of progression from Ire WorksIre Works to to Option Option ParalysisParalysis is anything to go by, then I cannot wait is anything to go by, then I cannot wait to see what happens in three years time when to see what happens in three years time when album number fi ve is released!album number fi ve is released!

While the electronic and pop infl uences on While the electronic and pop infl uences on Ire Ire WorksWorks were in your face, comprising in most cases were in your face, comprising in most cases of individual songs, on of individual songs, on Option ParalysisOption Paralysis Dillinger Dillinger have managed to seamlessly meld these infl u-have managed to seamlessly meld these infl u-ences into their existing, trademark song-writing ences into their existing, trademark song-writing structure, especially on tracks like album-opener structure, especially on tracks like album-opener ‘Farewell, Mona Lisa’ and ‘Chinese Whispers’.‘Farewell, Mona Lisa’ and ‘Chinese Whispers’.

The addition of Billy Rymer to the line-up has add-The addition of Billy Rymer to the line-up has add-ed a new vitality to the rhythm section in tracks ed a new vitality to the rhythm section in tracks like ‘Room Full Of Eyes’.like ‘Room Full Of Eyes’.

But the stand-out track, by far, is ‘Widower’. This But the stand-out track, by far, is ‘Widower’. This is Dillinger like you’ve never heard them before is Dillinger like you’ve never heard them before – a six-minute, piano-driven epic that has Greg – a six-minute, piano-driven epic that has Greg Puciato stretching his vocals to the limit and the Puciato stretching his vocals to the limit and the entire band testings their skills as musicians and entire band testings their skills as musicians and song-writers. And that is, in a nutshell, entirely song-writers. And that is, in a nutshell, entirely what this album is about!what this album is about!

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