40

interview

is a dangerous place, filled with violence

Michał chudoliński: what are the origins of BatMan’s

physical appearance? it is said that in the Beginning he was

supposed to wear a red suit and have Blonde hair...

Bruce Scivally: When Bob Kane first created

Batman, his original idea was for a character

in a red costume with a little black domino

mask, the kind that Robin eventually wore.

He went to his collaborator, Bill Finger, who

suggested that instead Batman should have

an outfit that resembled a bat, and that the co‑

lors should be black and gray. In comic books,

the color blue was used for highlights on

black, so it appeared that Batman’s costume

might have been blue, as it would eventually

become.

M.ch.: what can you tell us aBout Bill finger? how did he

contriBute to the creation and developMent of BatMan

B.S.:Bill Finger was a former shoe salesman

whom artist Bob Kane took on as a partner

because Kane, though a passable artist, was

not good at coming up with stories. Kane and

Finger were collaborators on comic strips like

“Clip Carson” for National Comics before

they jointly created Batman. However, Kane

was a much more savvy businessman than

Finger, and Kane had it put into his contract

with National that he would always be

credited as the creator of Batman, essentially

shutting Finger out. Over the next couple of

decades, Finger – and other writers – came

up with stories for Batman comic books,

and a number of uncredited artists – called

“ghosts” – drew the adventures, but Bob Kane

got all the credit and all the glory.

M.ch.: in your opinion, what do these events in Bill finger’s

life tell us aBout aMerican show Business? what lesson

can we draw froM his experience?

B.S.: The lesson to be learned from Bill

Finger’s experience is that when you are

embarking on a creative endeavor in partner‑

ship with someone else, you must first come to

terms on how the money will be shared and

the credit will be accorded and sign a contract

before you begin doing the work.

M.ch.: Michael uslan, great producer of BatMan franchise,

often coMplained that in the 70s and early 80s, studios

such as warner Bros. or universal didn’t want to Make any

serious filMs aBout BatMan Because they couldn’t Believe

in their success. what was the reason for this attitude and

what changed it?

B.S.: The huge success of the campy, comedic

1966 ‑68 Batman TV show created an image

in the public consciousness of Batman as

a comedic character. Comic book enthusiast

Michael Uslan was obsessed with bringing

a version of Batman to the movies that would

be more like the very first Batman comics, or

like the comic book stories of the 1970s, in

which Batman was a dark vigilante. Once

he obtained the rights to Batman in 1979, he

thought he would be able to land a movie

deal immediately, but the studios couldn’t

see any commercial potential in producing

a movie based on a goofy 1960s TV series.

Uslan kept fighting for his vision of Batman,

commissioning scripts and approaching

directors. It was only after he met with

superstar producers Peter Guber and Jon

Peters and partnered with them that he was

able to get a movie produced that fulfilled

interview with Bruce scivally conducted By Michał chudoliński

the world today

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about the authoris a film historian, professor and writer who teaches

film classes at the Illinois Institute of Art ‑Chicago

and Columbia College when not working on

film history books. His latest book, Billion Dollar

Batman,”traces the history of the Dark Knight in

radio, serials, TV and movies.

Scivally previously wrote Superman on Film, Tele‑

vision, Radio & Broadway and co ‑authored James

Bond: The Legacy. He has also written articles for

Filmfax, Variety, High Life and British Esquire.

Before moving to Chicago, Scivally produced and

wrote documentaries for Special Edition DVD

releases of the James Bond films, Alfred Hitchcock

movies, the Charlie Chan and Mr. Moto series, The

Pink Panther, The Great Escape, Legally Blonde,

A Fish Called Wanda, A Bridge Too Far, Doris

Day and Alice Faye films, and many others.

To learn more about Bruce and his books,

visit www.BruceScivally.com.

41

interview

his vision – ten years after he had first acqui‑

red the rights.

M.ch.: what role did the dark knight returns play in tiM

Burton’s success? where else do we see its influence?

B.S.: The graphic novel The Dark Knight

Returns, from writer/artist Frank Miller, rein‑

vented Batman in the 1980s, presenting a very

dark and grim tale of a 50 ‑ish Bruce Wayne

coming out of retirement to fight crime. The

incredible success of the comic books and

paperback reprints helped pave the way for

a darker, grittier interpretation of Batman in

the movies.

M.ch.: what caused

BatMan returns to

perforM so poorly?

B.S.: The 1989

Batman movie

was a masterpiece

of marketing,

becoming one

of the highest‑

‑grossing films

of all time. The

sequel, released

three years later,

spent more time

on the Penguin

and Catwoman

than on Batman, who seemed like a guest star

in his own movie. One of the tie ‑in marketing

partners was McDonald’s, who promoted

the film through Happy Meals. However,

when little kids who saw Batman on their

Happy Meals then went to see the movie, they

were given nightmares by the Penguin with

black bile drooling from his mouth. Parents

complained to

McDonalds and

Warner Bros., so

the studio decided

that for the third

Batman film, they

should get a di‑

rector who would

deliver a more

kid ‑friendly film,

and so they chose

Joel Schumacher.

M.ch.: what can you

tell us aBout the

cineMa industry and

pop culture status in

the schuMacher era? in what way did the failure of BatMan & roBin change the perspective of producers and industry?

B.S.: Schumacher is often derided by Batman

fans who sum up his two films with four

words: “nipples on the Batsuit.” As I men‑

tioned, Schumacher was under a directive

from Warner Bros. to make the Batman films

more kid ‑friendly and win back some of the

corporate sponsors who bailed after Batman

Returns. He succeeded in those tasks, but his

second film, Batman & Robin, seemed more

like a throwback to the 1960s TV series, and

alienated many hard ‑core fans. Nonetheless,

it was still financially successful. After critics

slammed the film, Schumacher planned to

make a much lower ‑budgeted, grittier Batman

film, but the studio pulled the plug and began

looking for another director to revitalize the

franchise.

M.ch.: what Made nolan Movies a worldwide phenoMenon?

aren’t they a Bit overrated? their plots seeM to have a lot of

illogical turning points, especially the dark knight rises...

B.S.: Christopher Nolan’s Batman trilogy was

built on the premise of taking the character

out of the fantasy worlds of Tim Burton and

Joel Schumacher and thinking about how

Batman would exist in the real world. At the

same time, Nolan was heavily influenced

by the James Bond films, especially On Her

Majesty’s Secret Service, so the plots had

some rather fantastic gadgetry and action

sequences. The Dark Knight, because of the

death of Heath Ledger, became a cultural

phenomenon, quickly becoming the second

BatMan & roBin seeMed More like

a throwBack to the 1960s tv series.

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42

highest ‑grossing film of all time. Conseque‑

ntly, expectations for the sequel were very

high. Yet when the opening weekend of The

Dark Knight Rises was marred by a massacre

in a Colorado movie theatre, many people

were put off from going to the film. Even so,

it was still a blockbuster hit worldwide.

M.ch.: what reviews did the dark knight rises get froM the

audience and critics? what is your take on it?

B.S.: Critics mostly gave The Dark Knight

Rises good reviews, but the film proved

controversial among hard ‑core Batman fans.

As with Batman Returns, it seemed to spend

more time focusing on the villains

than on Batman, and the plot

seemed to be overburdened with

twists that didn’t stand up to close

scrutiny. For myself, I enjoyed the

film, but felt it was a bit bloated. It

certainly didn’t have the narrative

gusto of The Dark Knight, tho‑

ugh I think it is a better film than

Batman Begins.

M.ch.: do you think that nolan’s legacy is going to have

a suBstantial influence on other superhero Movies? or

MayBe it already did?

B.S.: The astounding success of The Dark

Knight had a tremendous impact on comic

book movies, which were once seen strictly

as kiddie fare, but are now thought to be

dark ‑themed adult entertainment. Even

Superman, a character who symbolizes hope

and light, will be a dark, conflicted charac‑

ter when he returns to movie screens next

summer in The Man of Steel, produced by

Christopher Nolan.

M.ch.: how did the iMage of the Male hero change throu-

ghout all of BatMan’s history? how was he portrayed in

various eras and in what ways was he a reflection of the

tiMes? for exaMple, what are the differences Between the

leading Male character froM the golden age of coMics and

the one featured in the adaM west tv series?

B.S.: In the comic books, Batman has always

had a bodybuilder’s physique. In the serials

in 1943 and 1949, Batman was paunchy,

more like the average American of the day.

When Adam West was cast as Batman for

the TV show, he had a slim physique, but

was doubled in many of the action scenes

by a pot ‑bellied stuntman, giving rise to the

mistaken perception that West himself was

out of shape. West’s slender physique was in

keeping with the style of the 1960s, when

a slim build was considered preferable to

being “muscle bound”; this can also be seen

in the selection of Ron Ely as TV’s Tarzan,

who was much thinner than the bulging‑

‑biceped Gordon Scott

of the 1950s movies. In

1989, Michael Keaton

was cast as Batman.

Keaton, a short, slender

comedian, was the antit‑

hesis of the bodybuilder

type one would expect

to be playing the caped

hero, but director Tim

Burton liked the idea of

a normal guy who beca‑

me a superhero when he

put on an armored uniform with the muscles

sculpted in. Keaton was succeeded by Val

Kilmer and George Clooney, both of whom

had athletic physiques. When Christian Bale

became Batman, he underwent strenuous

weight training to get a muscular physique,

which he maintained for his next two outings

as the Caped Crusader.

M.ch.: in what exactly does the iMportance of BatMan

consist? what is his essence?

B.S.: Unlike Superman, who represents go‑

odness and hope, Batman is a character who

represent revenge and our darker impulses.

In the introduction to my book, I say that

while Superman represents who we aspire to

be, Batman represents who we are.

M.ch.: what fascinates you Most aBout this particular

story? are you interested in certain heroes, or is it

siMply all aBout the atMosphere?

B.S.: I was about 6 years old when the Bat‑

man TV show premiered. Prior to that, I was

a big fan of The Lone

Ranger and Superman,

whose 1950s TV shows

were then in re ‑runs.

Around that same time,

I began watching the

old Universal Pictures

horror films on televi‑

sion. So, by the time

I was a teenager, I was

already interested in

pop ‑culture movies and

TV and comic books.

I also became a fan of James Bond films. I de‑

cided to try for a career in movies, and went

interview

the dark knight rises proved

controversialaMong hard-core

BatMan fans.

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43

interview

to the University of Southern California after

graduating from high school. I remained in

Los Angeles, where I eventually became a co‑

‑producer of the James Bond special edition

DVDs, creating all the behind ‑the ‑scenes

documentaries. This led to John Cork and

I writing the book James Bond: The Legacy.

I enjoyed writing that book, so I decided to

write a book about another childhood hero,

and wrote Superman on Film, Television,

Radio and Broadway” While promoting that

book, everyone kept asking when I was going

to write a book about Batman, so I wrote

“Billion Dollar Batman.”

M.ch.: has BatMan influenced your life?

– After spending three years researching and

writing the book, I then went to various comic

book conventions to promote it. In the course

of researching the book, and appearing at

the cons, I made a lot of new friends who are

Batman enthusiasts.

M.ch.: do you think BatMan can inspire people to iMprove

their lives, help others and change the world for the

Better?

B.S.: To be honest, I would say that Superman

and the Lone Ranger were more inspiring to

me than Batman, since those characters were

more “goody ‑two ‑shoes” types, and following

their example taught me to be honest and

upbeat. If I were influenced by Batman (or at

least the current depictions of Batman), I’d

be depressed and brooding and meting out

punishment on anyone I felt had wronged me.

M.ch.: are you of the opinion that BatMan Makes an

essential part of our cultural Mythology?

B.S.: The world today is a dangerous place,

filled with violence. As a result, ordinary

citizens often feel powerless. This, I believe,

is what makes the superheros so popular; we

wish that, like Batman or Superman or Iron

Man, we could be courageous and power‑

ful enough to bring order to the chaos of the

world.

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